First, it is really absent-minded to think that we are immune from having disgusting "normal attitudes" (for instance, in the early 1950s tolerating homosexuality would have been regarded by many as un-British and indeed accepting illegality), and if we attempt to suppress disagreements with whatever we think at any one time, we will inhibit positive change as well.
Second, it is an important part of British culture that we are free to differ in ways not actually harming others. I think fundamentalist Christians and fundamentalist Muslims are both pretty strange, but I don't want the Government telling us that one is OK and the other isn't, or indeed that they are both wrong. It's not a matter for Theresa or Jeremy to decide.
Most importantly, it dangerously trivialises the real abuse if we lump it together with social attitudes. If a girl suffers FGM, she has been subject to horrible physical abuse, and long prison sentences are appropriate. If a girl is shunned by her family for the way she dresses or the people she meets, that's regrettable, but we can counter it with supportive social institutions where she can find more agreeable alternatives. FGM has to be countered by coercive State action. Attitudes, not.
We have a law criminalising emotional abuse and pressure. It deals with attitudes and the consequences in terms of actions of such attitudes.
Are you suggesting that this law should not be used to deal with such abuse within minority communities?
If a girl is shunned and abandoned or facing emotional pressure not to meet her friends she is being harmed. This happens to those who are under-age. Children. Muslims should have no expectation of us tolerating behaviour by them which harms their children just because they are Muslim. You appear to discount the very real harm that is done to such girls and how it can be on a continuum, starting with pressure not to go out and leading to forced marriage, rape, beatings, imprisonment and, in some cases, murder. Not trivial. And too often arising from attitudes that too many people have turned a blind eye to out of misguided tolerance.
I suggest you read Yasmin Alibhai Brown's recent writings on this very subject. She has plenty of evidence of what actually goes on in the Asian community which is very far from your rather rosy-eyed view.
Jeremy Corbyn used his position in Parliament to call for the “complete rehabilitation” of Leon Trotsky, it has emerged despite dismissing concerns about hard-Left entryism as “nonsense”.
In 1988, the Labour leader – then a backbencher – demanded the Marxist revolutionary and other communists have their achievements formally recognised by the Russian state.
Mr Corbyn was one of a series of prominent left-wingers who put their name to an Early Day Motion, a form of parliamentary petition with no standing in law, which made the call.
On the subject of excommunication, I have a friend who last saw or spoke to his parents 20 years ago. They were members of a Presbyterian church, and super religious. He married a catholic girl in a catholic church. And that was enough for them to completely cut him out of their lives. He tried to reestablish contact after the birth of their first child, but they weren't interested.
Well you can't say its ever dull in Rio...if you aren't been held up by armed gunmen or getting the windows of your bus shot out, you have tv cameras coming down on you, or having to swim through sewage or dive into swamp water....the best you can hope for is an empty stadium to witness you lifetime of hard work and dedication.
@JBcommentator: I imagine the bigwigs at British cycling will be trying to convince Laura Trott and Jason Kenny to have about 20 kids !
Imagine what is going to happen to that horse that won the disco dancing (again)....
Few years ago, I went on a tour of a stud farm in Kentucky. We were introduced to some horse that apparently was a huge deal in American track racing and had never lost a race in his career.
He was $250k a go when he started, but apparently over a number of years, none of the horses he had fathered were any good at all.
Trotskyism is a tool of the capitalists ... Leninism is a weapon for the workers! First issued on 5 July 2012. [excerpt] Trotskyism is a thoroughly counter-revolutionary trend marked by double-speak and cynical hypocrisy. It practises sectarianism and factionalism while calling for unity; it supports imperialist wars against the oppressed while mouthing phrases about anti-imperialism; it facilitates attacks on the working class through its cretinous support for the Labour party, while pretending to oppose such attacks; it supports counter-revolutions everywhere in the name of defending revolution.
Right in essence and left in form is the best way of describing this malicious tendency, which everywhere sows confusion and division in the working-class movement, making us weaker to defend ourselves against the onslaught of imperialism.
If we wish to liberate our world from imperialist exploitation and oppression, we must first rid our movement of all pro-imperialist, social-democratic ideology, not least the r-r-revolutionary garbage of Trotskyism.
@JBcommentator: I imagine the bigwigs at British cycling will be trying to convince Laura Trott and Jason Kenny to have about 20 kids !
Imagine what is going to happen to that horse that won the disco dancing (again)....
Few years ago, I went on a tour of a stud farm in Kentucky. We were introduced to some horse that apparently was a huge deal in American track racing and had never lost a race in his career.
He was $250k a go when he started, but apparently over a number of years, none of the horses he had fathered were any good at all.
@JBcommentator: I imagine the bigwigs at British cycling will be trying to convince Laura Trott and Jason Kenny to have about 20 kids !
Imagine what is going to happen to that horse that won the disco dancing (again)....
Few years ago, I went on a tour of a stud farm in Kentucky. We were introduced to some horse that apparently was a huge deal in American track racing and had never lost a race in his career.
He was $250k a go when he started, but apparently over a number of years, none of the horses he had fathered were any good at all.
Jeremy Corbyn used his position in Parliament to call for the “complete rehabilitation” of Leon Trotsky, it has emerged despite dismissing concerns about hard-Left entryism as “nonsense”.
In 1988, the Labour leader – then a backbencher – demanded the Marxist revolutionary and other communists have their achievements formally recognised by the Russian state.
Mr Corbyn was one of a series of prominent left-wingers who put their name to an Early Day Motion, a form of parliamentary petition with no standing in law, which made the call.
@JBcommentator: I imagine the bigwigs at British cycling will be trying to convince Laura Trott and Jason Kenny to have about 20 kids !
Imagine what is going to happen to that horse that won the disco dancing (again)....
Few years ago, I went on a tour of a stud farm in Kentucky. We were introduced to some horse that apparently was a huge deal in American track racing and had never lost a race in his career.
He was $250k a go when he started, but apparently over a number of years, none of the horses he had fathered were any good at all.
Yeah but he had fun and it's all about notches on the bed post stable door.
@JBcommentator: I imagine the bigwigs at British cycling will be trying to convince Laura Trott and Jason Kenny to have about 20 kids !
Imagine what is going to happen to that horse that won the disco dancing (again)....
Few years ago, I went on a tour of a stud farm in Kentucky. We were introduced to some horse that apparently was a huge deal in American track racing and had never lost a race in his career.
He was $250k a go when he started, but apparently over a number of years, none of the horses he had fathered were any good at all.
Yeah but he had fun and it's all about notches on the bed post stable door.
Er....Horses sent to stud have very little fun. You might want to look into precisely how his "fathering" happens.
@JBcommentator: I imagine the bigwigs at British cycling will be trying to convince Laura Trott and Jason Kenny to have about 20 kids !
Imagine what is going to happen to that horse that won the disco dancing (again)....
Few years ago, I went on a tour of a stud farm in Kentucky. We were introduced to some horse that apparently was a huge deal in American track racing and had never lost a race in his career.
He was $250k a go when he started, but apparently over a number of years, none of the horses he had fathered were any good at all.
Yeah but he had fun and it's all about notches on the bed post stable door.
I tell you, he lived in bloody luxury...had own hydro-therapy pool, 7 Mexicans attended to his every need. Not sure now he was a known firer of blanks how long the royal treatment was going to last though!
@JBcommentator: I imagine the bigwigs at British cycling will be trying to convince Laura Trott and Jason Kenny to have about 20 kids !
Imagine what is going to happen to that horse that won the disco dancing (again)....
Few years ago, I went on a tour of a stud farm in Kentucky. We were introduced to some horse that apparently was a huge deal in American track racing and had never lost a race in his career.
He was $250k a go when he started, but apparently over a number of years, none of the horses he had fathered were any good at all.
Yeah but he had fun and it's all about notches on the bed post stable door.
Er....Horses sent to stud have very little fun. You might want to look into precisely how his "fathering" happens.
Yes in all seriousness, they did explain the process warts and all....I have to say I was quite shocked by some of the methods they used to ensure that those big fees resulted in the desired outcome as often as possible.
Although, at this place I visited outside of the forced "banging", they did live in amazing conditions due to the level of the fees involved.
Well you can't say its ever dull in Rio...if you aren't been held up by armed gunmen or getting the windows of your bus shot out, you have tv cameras coming down on you, or having to swim through sewage or dive into swamp water....the best you can hope for is an empty stadium to witness you lifetime of hard work and dedication.
Happened a few years back at a Speedway in the US, though the camera did not fall that time.
@JBcommentator: I imagine the bigwigs at British cycling will be trying to convince Laura Trott and Jason Kenny to have about 20 kids !
Imagine what is going to happen to that horse that won the disco dancing (again)....
Few years ago, I went on a tour of a stud farm in Kentucky. We were introduced to some horse that apparently was a huge deal in American track racing and had never lost a race in his career.
He was $250k a go when he started, but apparently over a number of years, none of the horses he had fathered were any good at all.
Yeah but he had fun and it's all about notches on the bed post stable door.
Er....Horses sent to stud have very little fun. You might want to look into precisely how his "fathering" happens.
Yes in all seriousness, they did explain the process warts and all....I have to say I was quite shocked by some of the methods they used to ensure that those big fees resulted in the desired outcome as often as possible.
Although, at this place I visited outside of the forced "banging", they did live in amazing conditions due to the level of the fees involved.
Thoroughbreds are all 'live cover'. Most other breedings are by frozen semen.
@JBcommentator: I imagine the bigwigs at British cycling will be trying to convince Laura Trott and Jason Kenny to have about 20 kids !
Imagine what is going to happen to that horse that won the disco dancing (again)....
Few years ago, I went on a tour of a stud farm in Kentucky. We were introduced to some horse that apparently was a huge deal in American track racing and had never lost a race in his career.
He was $250k a go when he started, but apparently over a number of years, none of the horses he had fathered were any good at all.
Yeah but he had fun and it's all about notches on the bed post stable door.
Er....Horses sent to stud have very little fun. You might want to look into precisely how his "fathering" happens.
Yes in all seriousness, they did explain the process warts and all....I have to say I was quite shocked by some of the methods they used to ensure that those big fees resulted in the desired outcome as often as possible.
Although, at this place I visited outside of the forced "banging", they did live in amazing conditions due to the level of the fees involved.
Thoroughbreds are all 'live cover'. Most other breedings are by frozen semen.
I made the massive faux pas of asking that....apparently "its not the done thing".
Well you can't say its ever dull in Rio...if you aren't been held up by armed gunmen or getting the windows of your bus shot out, you have tv cameras coming down on you, or having to swim through sewage or dive into swamp water....the best you can hope for is an empty stadium to witness you lifetime of hard work and dedication.
I think it is fair to say after Beijing and London Rio has not exactly set a high bar for Tokyo to follow, if the diving pool is clean, and most of the residents are actually watching in the stadium (conscious) rather than taking the opportunity to mug athletes on the way home from a night out they will already be one step ahead of this year's Olympiad
They rather amusingly asked the British guy who got the Windsurfing Silver medal, who has been training in Rio leading up to the Olympics, if he goes in the ocean outside of on the board...the look on his face was a "are you totally f##king crazy".
@JBcommentator: I imagine the bigwigs at British cycling will be trying to convince Laura Trott and Jason Kenny to have about 20 kids !
Imagine what is going to happen to that horse that won the disco dancing (again)....
Few years ago, I went on a tour of a stud farm in Kentucky. We were introduced to some horse that apparently was a huge deal in American track racing and had never lost a race in his career.
He was $250k a go when he started, but apparently over a number of years, none of the horses he had fathered were any good at all.
Yeah but he had fun and it's all about notches on the bed post stable door.
Er....Horses sent to stud have very little fun. You might want to look into precisely how his "fathering" happens.
Yes in all seriousness, they did explain the process warts and all....I have to say I was quite shocked by some of the methods they used to ensure that those big fees resulted in the desired outcome as often as possible.
Although, at this place I visited outside of the forced "banging", they did live in amazing conditions due to the level of the fees involved.
Thoroughbreds are all 'live cover'. Most other breedings are by frozen semen.
I made the massive faux pas of asking that....apparently "its not the done thing".
Not just 'not the done thing' - I believe a horse cannot be registered as a Thoroughbred if it is not live cover. Now racing mules, different story. You can clone for all they care.
@JBcommentator: I imagine the bigwigs at British cycling will be trying to convince Laura Trott and Jason Kenny to have about 20 kids !
Imagine what is going to happen to that horse that won the disco dancing (again)....
Few years ago, I went on a tour of a stud farm in Kentucky. We were introduced to some horse that apparently was a huge deal in American track racing and had never lost a race in his career.
He was $250k a go when he started, but apparently over a number of years, none of the horses he had fathered were any good at all.
Yeah but he had fun and it's all about notches on the bed post stable door.
Er....Horses sent to stud have very little fun. You might want to look into precisely how his "fathering" happens.
Yes in all seriousness, they did explain the process warts and all....I have to say I was quite shocked by some of the methods they used to ensure that those big fees resulted in the desired outcome as often as possible.
Although, at this place I visited outside of the forced "banging", they did live in amazing conditions due to the level of the fees involved.
Thoroughbreds are all 'live cover'. Most other breedings are by frozen semen.
I made the massive faux pas of asking that....apparently "its not the done thing".
Not just 'not the done thing' - I believe a horse cannot be registered as a Thoroughbred if it is not live cover. Now racing mules, different story. You can clone for all they care.
Things have moved on, the FEI have ok ed clones as of 2012 and they will be the norm from now on - William fox Pitt's tamarillo has a clone called Tomatillo foaled in 2012.
@JBcommentator: I imagine the bigwigs at British cycling will be trying to convince Laura Trott and Jason Kenny to have about 20 kids !
Imagine what is going to happen to that horse that won the disco dancing (again)....
Few years ago, I went on a tour of a stud farm in Kentucky. We were introduced to some horse that apparently was a huge deal in American track racing and had never lost a race in his career.
He was $250k a go when he started, but apparently over a number of years, none of the horses he had fathered were any good at all.
Yeah but he had fun and it's all about notches on the bed post stable door.
Er....Horses sent to stud have very little fun. You might want to look into precisely how his "fathering" happens.
Yes in all seriousness, they did explain the process warts and all....I have to say I was quite shocked by some of the methods they used to ensure that those big fees resulted in the desired outcome as often as possible.
Although, at this place I visited outside of the forced "banging", they did live in amazing conditions due to the level of the fees involved.
Thoroughbreds are all 'live cover'. Most other breedings are by frozen semen.
I made the massive faux pas of asking that....apparently "its not the done thing".
Not just 'not the done thing' - I believe a horse cannot be registered as a Thoroughbred if it is not live cover. Now racing mules, different story. You can clone for all they care.
Things have moved on, the FEI have ok ed clones as of 2012 and they will be the norm from now on - William fox Pitt's tamarillo has a clone called Tomatillo foaled in 2012.
Fox-Pitt is in Eventing, not flat racing.
I don't know about racing in the UK, but in the US, the Jockey Club decides. Live cover is still the only permissible means of breeding to register as a Thoroughbred, and only registered thoroughbreds are allowed to compete at the top level.
Explicitly not permitted: artificial insemination, embryo transfer and cloning.
@JBcommentator: I imagine the bigwigs at British cycling will be trying to convince Laura Trott and Jason Kenny to have about 20 kids !
Imagine what is going to happen to that horse that won the disco dancing (again)....
Few years ago, I went on a tour of a stud farm in Kentucky. We were introduced to some horse that apparently was a huge deal in American track racing and had never lost a race in his career.
He was $250k a go when he started, but apparently over a number of years, none of the horses he had fathered were any good at all.
Yeah but he had fun and it's all about notches on the bed post stable door.
Er....Horses sent to stud have very little fun. You might want to look into precisely how his "fathering" happens.
Yes in all seriousness, they did explain the process warts and all....I have to say I was quite shocked by some of the methods they used to ensure that those big fees resulted in the desired outcome as often as possible.
Although, at this place I visited outside of the forced "banging", they did live in amazing conditions due to the level of the fees involved.
Thoroughbreds are all 'live cover'. Most other breedings are by frozen semen.
I made the massive faux pas of asking that....apparently "its not the done thing".
Not just 'not the done thing' - I believe a horse cannot be registered as a Thoroughbred if it is not live cover. Now racing mules, different story. You can clone for all they care.
Things have moved on, the FEI have ok ed clones as of 2012 and they will be the norm from now on - William fox Pitt's tamarillo has a clone called Tomatillo foaled in 2012.
Fox-Pitt is in Eventing, not flat racing.
I don't know about racing in the UK, but in the US, the Jockey Club decides. Live cover is still the only permissible means of breeding to register as a Thoroughbred, and only registered thoroughbreds are allowed to compete at the top level.
Explicitly not permitted: artificial insemination, embryo transfer and cloning.
I do know that William Fox Pitt is not in flat racing. My point was that it's not just racing mules, it's all FEI disciplines where clones can compete these days.
The uk jockey club also insists on natural covering only, by the way.
I do know that William Fox Pitt is not in flat racing. My point was that it's not just racing mules, it's all FEI disciplines where clones can compete these days.
The uk jockey club also insists on natural covering only, by the way.
Sorry. I misunderstood you as I had originally pointed out that most other breeding was by AI, not live cover, and had focused on the rule for Thoroughbreds.
I have to wonder about the value of cloning high performance horses for competition rather than for breeding purposes. So much of performance is well beyond genetics - conditioning, how the horse was brought along, and of course the horse rider connection. I seriously doubt that most clones could perform as well as the originals. But at least their genes are the same.
I do know that William Fox Pitt is not in flat racing. My point was that it's not just racing mules, it's all FEI disciplines where clones can compete these days.
The uk jockey club also insists on natural covering only, by the way.
Sorry. I misunderstood you as I had originally pointed out that most other breeding was by AI, not live cover, and had focused on the rule for Thoroughbreds.
I have to wonder about the value of cloning high performance horses for competition rather than for breeding purposes. So much of performance is well beyond genetics - conditioning, how the horse was brought along, and of course the horse rider connection. I seriously doubt that most clones could perform as well as the originals. But at least their genes are the same.
It will resolve the nature vs nurture debate one way or the other.
I don't know about racing in the UK, but in the US, the Jockey Club decides. Live cover is still the only permissible means of breeding to register as a Thoroughbred, and only registered thoroughbreds are allowed to compete at the top level.
Explicitly not permitted: artificial insemination, embryo transfer and cloning.
So basically the Jockey Club has outlawed...the 21st century
Comments
Truly your pomposity has no equal.
Are you suggesting that this law should not be used to deal with such abuse within minority communities?
If a girl is shunned and abandoned or facing emotional pressure not to meet her friends she is being harmed. This happens to those who are under-age. Children. Muslims should have no expectation of us tolerating behaviour by them which harms their children just because they are Muslim. You appear to discount the very real harm that is done to such girls and how it can be on a continuum, starting with pressure not to go out and leading to forced marriage, rape, beatings, imprisonment and, in some cases, murder. Not trivial. And too often arising from attitudes that too many people have turned a blind eye to out of misguided tolerance.
I suggest you read Yasmin Alibhai Brown's recent writings on this very subject. She has plenty of evidence of what actually goes on in the Asian community which is very far from your rather rosy-eyed view.
I said chap, you changed it to man.
I'm not going to engage with someone who cannot copy and paste properly.
Your shoes have Velcro on them right?
Sheesh man, you need to get a sense of humour.
It's her third event of the day and she puts the hammer down like that... Like wow.
It seems you are also a pedant. To pick on chap or man. or was it bloke or fellow or geezer the point remains the same.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3742080/Horror-Olympic-Park-four-spectators-left-bloodied-shaken-control-drone-camera-collapses-crashes-them.html
Well you can't say its ever dull in Rio...if you aren't been held up by armed gunmen or getting the windows of your bus shot out, you have tv cameras coming down on you, or having to swim through sewage or dive into swamp water....the best you can hope for is an empty stadium to witness you lifetime of hard work and dedication.
"I'm not going to engage with someone who cannot copy and paste properly."
well clearly you did engage....
Few years ago, I went on a tour of a stud farm in Kentucky. We were introduced to some horse that apparently was a huge deal in American track racing and had never lost a race in his career.
He was $250k a go when he started, but apparently over a number of years, none of the horses he had fathered were any good at all.
Edit - or like that American horse up thread
http://www.cpgb-ml.org/index.php?secName=leaflets&subName=display&leafletId=89
Trotskyism is a tool of the capitalists ... Leninism is a weapon for the workers!
First issued on 5 July 2012.
[excerpt]
Trotskyism is a thoroughly counter-revolutionary trend marked by double-speak and cynical hypocrisy. It practises sectarianism and factionalism while calling for unity; it supports imperialist wars against the oppressed while mouthing phrases about anti-imperialism; it facilitates attacks on the working class through its cretinous support for the Labour party, while pretending to oppose such attacks; it supports counter-revolutions everywhere in the name of defending revolution.
Right in essence and left in form is the best way of describing this malicious tendency, which everywhere sows confusion and division in the working-class movement, making us weaker to defend ourselves against the onslaught of imperialism.
If we wish to liberate our world from imperialist exploitation and oppression, we must first rid our movement of all pro-imperialist, social-democratic ideology, not least the r-r-revolutionary garbage of Trotskyism.
http://www.cpgb-ml.org/download/leaflets/trotskyism_20141027.pdf
bed poststable door.Although, at this place I visited outside of the forced "banging", they did live in amazing conditions due to the level of the fees involved.
Rio's really putting on a poor performance.
i have a saying "every day prick the the bubble of a fat nothern bald pompous twat"
Today is a good day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idaho_Gem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ihrPSx0nXU
I don't know about racing in the UK, but in the US, the Jockey Club decides. Live cover is still the only permissible means of breeding to register as a Thoroughbred, and only registered thoroughbreds are allowed to compete at the top level.
Explicitly not permitted: artificial insemination, embryo transfer and cloning.
http://www.registry.jockeyclub.com/registry.cfm?Page=tjcRuleBook
The uk jockey club also insists on natural covering only, by the way.
One might generously describe the judges' decision as 'poor'.
Just a coincidence it was a russian boxer who got the decision, I'm sure.
I have to wonder about the value of cloning high performance horses for competition rather than for breeding purposes. So much of performance is well beyond genetics - conditioning, how the horse was brought along, and of course the horse rider connection. I seriously doubt that most clones could perform as well as the originals. But at least their genes are the same.
Michael Moore thinks even most college educated didn't know.