Mr. M, reminds me a shade of the Coalition negotiations. It was splendid, nobody was leaking anything and the media didn't have a clue what was going on.
Well in fairness I teach mostly on the war in the Pacific rather than the war in Poland. So my pupils might not be able to teach you that specific fact either.
They leave school not knowing who the protagonists were in World War II?
Oh well, at least there's Wikipedia ...
My point was about moronic non-analogies so let's be hearing, please, about terrorist incidents in the thirties accompanied by shouts of "Uber alles" (and you clearly make the usual uneducated person's mistake about the meaning of those words in that context).
What does the Labour party have to do to elect a female leader?! At least Eagles had the guts to throw her hat in the ring first and challenge Corbyn with all the abuse that came with it. It looks terrible for Owen Smith to immediately follow her over the barricades, and then see the PLP decide that another man in a suit is the best challenger to Corbyn thus forcing Eagles to stand side?!
I suppose a good start would be if it had a candidate whose prospectus went beyond "I'll win this election because I'm not Corbyn" and "I want to beat the Tories because I've always not been a Tory"
Smith approached it with at least an appearance of making policy choices (his referendum stance is relatively bold and doesn't fall into the trap of the Blairites since 2010 of buying into the tyranny of the majority and believing it somehow anti-centrist to oppose the policies of a government with a majority). If she'd talked about why she was "Labour to the core" and what that meant she'd actually set out to do she'd probably have won due to first mover advantage. Instead she just came across as David "because I think I'd be good at it" Cameron only without the PR polish and likeable manner.
What does the Labour party have to do to elect a female leader?! At least Eagles had the guts to throw her hat in the ring first and challenge Corbyn with all the abuse that came with it. It looks terrible for Owen Smith to immediately follow her over the barricades, and then see the PLP decide that another man in a suit is the best challenger to Corbyn thus forcing Eagles to stand side?!
Have a female MP with impeccable left wing credentials, and as of present being a member of team Corbyn (being not is regarded as high treason by Labour party members).
A mere taste of the misery he inflicted on millions of Brits these past 6 years.
NO NO NO NO NO.. It was Brown who inflicted the misery on the UK.
That's why Lehman Bros collapsing in the US started the whole thing.
It didn't. The crisis had been rumbling for over a year when Lehmann Brothers went down.
Brown's errors were two: 1) to fail to enforce minimal capital ratios in banks due to the weakness of the tripartite system he and Darling had put in place in the teeth of fierce opposition from Eddie George in 1997, leaving the banks horribly reliant on short term borrowing that when the bank markets froze overnight left all bar two of them literally bankrupt;
Wasn't the bank capital requirements set by the Basle 2 accords, which came to the UK as an EU directive?
@HurstLlama I think @Jonathan meant there would have been no EU vote and no Brexit with concomitant economic shocks and uncertainty.
Maybe, Doctor, but that is not what he said and I am quite sure he is a big enough boy to tell me himself what he meant.
Mind, you if you want to come down to the Bear at Horsham and join in the discussion you would be more than welcome.
How can I refuse, Mr Llama?
Well that is damn generous of you, Doctor, However, if memory serves you are based is some benighted place to the West and North of London where trains run infrequently and slowly. For you to get to the Bear in Horsham would be a very big ask, Horsham also being on branch line (well two actually), and even if you made it in you'd probably never get back the same day.
So probably best if we made it a London lunchtime meeting. I haven't been up for a couple of years but there used to be an excellent Italian by Victoria Station, where we can sit, drink wine, eat and natter for hours. Pubs in that part of the world are not good.
I will look forward to it. However I am going away for some weeks from tomorrow. Can I contact you again next month?
It's not too hard to get to London from Cannock - I just tend not to go there because I don't like the place.
Two hours twenty minutes from Cannock to Euston I see. Only fair that I buy the lunch. I think I might need to do a reccie while you are away. Please give me a shout when you get back.
The IRA had objectives that were subject to negotiation, and were very susceptible to infiltration. Neither apply to Salafism, unless we all adopt the Jim Jones solution and save 'em the bother.
For heaven's sake, it was just an example!
I could just as easily have said we'd worked out why people called Fritz kept shouting "Uber Alles" and killing everyone - or any other offensive stereotype you can thing of for that matter.
Well, in the gentlest possible way, it was a poor example. We are struggling to come to terms with a rather nebulous opponent that, while backed by state actors, isn't one. It has pretty much global reach and is not impressed by the alleged benefits of Western secular democracies, even when living in said democracies. Rather, it's actively repelled by what they offer. That's completely new to us. It's very hard for us to combat memes.
Hard. Yes. But not impossible provided (a) we have the will and (b) we realise that we have to win the ideological battle, the battle of ideas. And that means challenging in every possible way and at every opportunity the Islamist ideology and its religious underpinnings so that what survives is only an Islam which is willing and able to accommodate itself to the Western world in which it finds itself. Fighting and security and intelligence are all necessary but not sufficient.
Hard work and it will take time. But better than the deluded wish fulfilment that seems to pass for policy on this in most countries.
Two hours twenty minutes from Cannock to Euston I see. Only fair that I buy the lunch. I think I might need to do a reccie while you are away. Please give me a shout when you get back.
That's very generous of you and I will look forward to it. Will be in touch.
You may appreciate this satirical Twitter feed [nothing to do with me], which is good for light relief in that, and other areas. https://twitter.com/GodfreyElfwick
Well in fairness I teach mostly on the war in the Pacific rather than the war in Poland. So my pupils might not be able to teach you that specific fact either.
They leave school not knowing who the protagonists were in World War II?
Oh well, at least there's Wikipedia ...
My point was about moronic non-analogies so let's be hearing, please, about terrorist incidents in the thirties accompanied by shouts of "Uber alles" (and you clearly make the usual uneducated person's mistake about the meaning of those words in that context).
what they actually used to say was "for you tommy ze war is over".
and american marines in the pacific always said "cop this tojo" before throwing a hand grenade.
Mr. Speedy, indeed, but I think Smith simply wants to get soft Corbynistas on-side.
"I love Jeremy, I do. He inspired me to do so much, to become radical, to rediscover my true political compass, and to try and replace him as leader so he can return to justified and eternal exile on the backbenches where he belongs."
The point is, ladies and gentlemen, that Jezza, for lack of a better word, is good. Jezza is right, Jezza works. Jezza clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the (R)evolutionary spirit. Jezza, in all of his forms; Jezza for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And Jezza, you mark my words, will not only save the Labour Party, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the UK. Thank you very much.
Compared with the alternatives he is presently the only thing that works, and that's why he's winning.
Corbyn will probably win by a larger margin than the last time, though not much larger, probably low 60's.
Hattie and Ma Beckett are head and shoulders above Corbyn, Smith and Eagles. Two leaders Labour should've had in preference to EdM and Jezza.
I say this as someone who can't stand Harperson's feminism agenda. She was my MP back in the 80s and never failed to impress me with her total trooper attitude. She never shrinks from a fight, and despite Beckett making a complete arse of the RPA - she's another.
Why she donated a vote to Corbyn is beyond me.
Strongly disagree re- Harriet Harman. Her response as Acting Leader to Osborne's July 2015 Budget gave Corbyn the momentum to win the leadership last year. Without the outrage caused by getting the party to abstain on the Welfare Reforms et al Corbyn would have done no better than a distant third behind Burnham and Cooper.
You may appreciate this satirical Twitter feed [nothing to do with me], which is good for light relief in that, and other areas. https://twitter.com/GodfreyElfwick
Labour have to lose an election with Jezza if they want rid of him. And they have to be seen to be backing him wholeheartedly in the attempt, otherwise it will look like sabotaging their own man.
I don't even know why they want to get rid of him anyway. It's not like they've got anyone else half capable.
I wonder just why May was so brutal towards Osborne?
Revenge is a dish best served cold.
I liked Cameron and the Cameroons, but it was no secret how disdainful they were of both their own PCP and the membership if not part of the Notting Hill set.
Osborne was the "brains" behind the whole Cameron operation. Particularly in this parliament.
If May didn't like the Cameroon modus operandi then Osborne would always have been top of the list for dismissal.
Sounds like she told him exactly what she thought of it.
What does the Labour party have to do to elect a female leader?! At least Eagles had the guts to throw her hat in the ring first and challenge Corbyn with all the abuse that came with it. It looks terrible for Owen Smith to immediately follow her over the barricades, and then see the PLP decide that another man in a suit is the best challenger to Corbyn thus forcing Eagles to stand side?!
Have a female MP with impeccable left wing credentials, and as of present being a member of team Corbyn (being not is regarded as high treason by Labour party members).
Mr. Better, except for Woolfe[sp] are there any other announced UKIP leadership candidates.
Well it would explain why he was fawning a bit on Corbyn this afternoon on TV.
"Corbyn helped me rediscover my radicalism" and all.
In what sense is Corbyn radical? He's rather conservative if anything: an old-fashioned lefty of a type entirely familiar to anyone who remembers the 1970's. It is very good of him to conserve this type so that those who did not live through that time can think they've discovered the political Ark of the Covenant.
What a brave, principled, selfless woman Angela Eagle has proved herself to be. I actually feel a little bit emotional about it. Unlike some, she has put the Labour party first. She has gone up massively in my estimation.
No doubt, though, that Owen Smith is better placed to beat Corbyn. He has a tiny chance, but it does exist. If by some miracle it happens, Angela Eagle will earn the undying gratitude of millions of Labour voters.
Yeah, yeah: I don't doubt your sincerity. But it looks as if the woman was used to do what no-one else had the guts to do and then was discarded.
And this is the party which, its insufferable sense of moral superiority intact, has the gall to lecture the rest of us on equality.
It stinks.
Better for Corbyn to stay, be roundly defeated and from the ashes maybe decent Labour party members like you can create a left of centre party which actually acts on the liberal principles it claims to believe in and which the rest of us could even consider voting for.
+1
Btw my earlier reply to you top of PT
I saw. Thank you. A small world.
I go to Italy for a fortnight and when I come back I find that a Gail's Artisan Bakery (for heaven's sake) has now opened in West Hampstead. The place is going to the dogs. I'd impose a Stupidity Tax on anyone daft enough to pay the sort of prices they charge.
Gail's must be a chain, for I am sure I have seen it somewhere else.
Coming back to London from Italy was always rather grim (although not with today's weather), even when I lived in West Hampstead.
It is a chain. An overpriced chain for people with more money than sense.
The IRA had objectives that were subject to negotiation, and were very susceptible to infiltration. Neither apply to Salafism, unless we all adopt the Jim Jones solution and save 'em the bother.
For heaven's sake, it was just an example!
I could just as easily have said we'd worked out why people called Fritz kept shouting "Uber Alles" and killing everyone - or any other offensive stereotype you can thing of for that matter.
Well, in the gentlest possible way, it was a poor example. We are struggling to come to terms with a rather nebulous opponent that, while backed by state actors, isn't one. It has pretty much global reach and is not impressed by the alleged benefits of Western secular democracies, even when living in said democracies. Rather, it's actively repelled by what they offer. That's completely new to us. It's very hard for us to combat memes.
Hard. Yes. But not impossible provided (a) we have the will and (b) we realise that we have to win the ideological battle, the battle of ideas. And that means challenging in every possible way and at every opportunity the Islamist ideology and its religious underpinnings so that what survives is only an Islam which is willing and able to accommodate itself to the Western world in which it finds itself. Fighting and security and intelligence are all necessary but not sufficient.
Hard work and it will take time. But better than the deluded wish fulfilment that seems to pass for policy on this in most countries.
Mrs. Free, I might suggest that Islam in terms of reforming its idea so that it can cope in the West with the 21st century is a long way behind where the RC church was when Luther nailed up his nine articles - Luther was tapping into a spring of support for reform that had existed for a long time. I see no such support in Islam.
Nonetheless, the Reformation took a long, long time, several wars and, in terms of the population at the time, a huge number of deaths.
If you are pinning your hope on reforming a religion that has as its fundamental belief the Koran is the expressed, perfect word of God, well good luck. If it happens at all it will not happen peacefully the Saudi's will take care of that.
Mr. Speedy, indeed, but I think Smith simply wants to get soft Corbynistas on-side.
"I love Jeremy, I do. He inspired me to do so much, to become radical, to rediscover my true political compass, and to try and replace him as leader so he can return to justified and eternal exile on the backbenches where he belongs."
To me it sounded like a:
"Please don't hurt me Jeremy, I didn't mean to run against you, honest"
Mr. Better, except for Woolfe[sp] are there any other announced UKIP leadership candidates.
Well it would explain why he was fawning a bit on Corbyn this afternoon on TV.
"Corbyn helped me rediscover my radicalism" and all.
In what sense is Corbyn radical? He's rather conservative if anything: an old-fashioned lefty of a type entirely familiar to anyone who remembers the 1970's. It is very good of him to conserve this type so that those who did not live through that time can think they've discovered the political Ark of the Covenant.
But radical in any meaningful sense he is not.
Quite. His equivalent would be some Shire Tory muttering about 'poofters', getting rid of the 'darkies' and calling for the return of National Service and corporal punishment. He's actually a reactionary. People confuse his inability to change his mind for wisdom.
Mr. Better, except for Woolfe[sp] are there any other announced UKIP leadership candidates.
Well it would explain why he was fawning a bit on Corbyn this afternoon on TV.
"Corbyn helped me rediscover my radicalism" and all.
In what sense is Corbyn radical? He's rather conservative if anything: an old-fashioned lefty of a type entirely familiar to anyone who remembers the 1970's. It is very good of him to conserve this type so that those who did not live through that time can think they've discovered the political Ark of the Covenant.
But radical in any meaningful sense he is not.
This. It's strange, but you could say that the most powerful figures at the top of Labour right now (Corbyn, McDonnell, McCluskey etc) are white, straight conservative men. Which is odd for a party that seems to identify itself with 'equality'. Increasingly, Labour is becoming more and more detached from that ideal.
OT, but I'm reading up on Marion Marechal Le Pen. She has some....errr....colourful views. I'm not a fan, I have to say.
I wonder just why May was so brutal towards Osborne?
Because he's a bit of a c*nt?
LOL everyone really does hate George Osborne!
Yes, but there's a reason for that.
In the end, everyone worked out that they were all dispensable, in Osborne's eyes, if he calculated it gave him a narrow tactical advantage for his career.
And he was happy to change those calculations frequently, and regularly.
Didn't help that he had less personal empathy than a great white shark either.
That's interesting. It paints a very different picture of his character than the one we've been used to hearing. Some have been at pains to portrait Osborne as this amiable guy who has a great sense of humour. That tweet portraits Osborne as the exact opposite.
I have no way of knowing which account is true, but it is worth noting Nadine Dorries will hardly be an unbiased source when it comes to George and Dave.
On her two posh boys who don't know the price of milk comment, she was asked a few months ago whether she said they have changed. She said Dave has but George hasn't and that she didn't want him to be PM because it would send out the message that all you have to do to get to the top is scheme and know the right friends etc.
Well in fairness I teach mostly on the war in the Pacific rather than the war in Poland. So my pupils might not be able to teach you that specific fact either.
They leave school not knowing who the protagonists were in World War II?
Oh well, at least there's Wikipedia ...
My point was about moronic non-analogies so let's be hearing, please, about terrorist incidents in the thirties accompanied by shouts of "Uber alles" (and you clearly make the usual uneducated person's mistake about the meaning of those words in that context).
what they actually used to say was "for you tommy ze war is over".
and american marines in the pacific always said "cop this tojo" before throwing a hand grenade.
Ref: not wikipedia, Battle comic.
"Eat this pineapple, Jerry!"
Is the correct aphorism to use when chucking a Mills bomb, as I recall!
Mr. Speedy, indeed, but I think Smith simply wants to get soft Corbynistas on-side.
"I love Jeremy, I do. He inspired me to do so much, to become radical, to rediscover my true political compass, and to try and replace him as leader so he can return to justified and eternal exile on the backbenches where he belongs."
To me it sounded like a:
"Please don't hurt me Jeremy, I didn't mean to run against you, honest"
Perhaps aimed towards momentum - please don’t threaten my family or smash up my office.
What a brave, principled, selfless woman Angela Eagle has proved herself to be. I actually feel a little bit emotional about it. Unlike some, she has put the Labour party first. She has gone up massively in my estimation.
No doubt, though, that Owen Smith is better placed to beat Corbyn. He has a tiny chance, but it does exist. If by some miracle it happens, Angela Eagle will earn the undying gratitude of millions of Labour voters.
Yeah, yeah: I don't doubt your sincerity. But it looks as if the woman was used to do what no-one else had the guts to do and then was discarded.
And this is the party which, its insufferable sense of moral superiority intact, has the gall to lecture the rest of us on equality.
It stinks.
Better for Corbyn to stay, be roundly defeated and from the ashes maybe decent Labour party members like you can create a left of centre party which actually acts on the liberal principles it claims to believe in and which the rest of us could even consider voting for.
+1
Btw my earlier reply to you top of PT
I saw. Thank you. A small world.
I go to Italy for a fortnight and when I come back I find that a Gail's Artisan Bakery (for heaven's sake) has now opened in West Hampstead. The place is going to the dogs. I'd impose a Stupidity Tax on anyone daft enough to pay the sort of prices they charge.
Gail's must be a chain, for I am sure I have seen it somewhere else.
Coming back to London from Italy was always rather grim (although not with today's weather), even when I lived in West Hampstead.
It is a chain. An overpriced chain for people with more money than sense.
It seems somewhat rude to suggest that West Hampstead nowadays might not be such a bad target market. Sorry.
No need to apologise. I'm sure they've done their research. It's just a bit depressing for me to see overpriced useless shops replace useful ones. Gentrification usually means that in order to buy a nail you have to drive miles but within walking distance there are 35 estate agents and 42 coffee shops, none of which make a decent coffee.
Well we can only hope that Brexit will see off at least half of the estate agents!
House prices in London are ludicrous. They've just put the flat my Mum grew up in (sadly she didn't own it, but it was her Dad's grace & favour) for £150m. £150m. FOR A FUCKING FLAT.
Mr. Urquhart, the motive reportedly being? [I have a suspicion but such things can be wrong, as per Breivik].
When I looked earlier, TF1 reported that there had been a disagreement over the way the people had been dressed. The attacker has been known to the police for 15 years.
The IRA had objectives that were subject to negotiation, and were very susceptible to infiltration. Neither apply to Salafism, unless we all adopt the Jim Jones solution and save 'em the bother.
For heaven's sake, it was just an example!
I could just as easily have said we'd worked out why people called Fritz kept shouting "Uber Alles" and killing everyone - or any other offensive stereotype you can thing of for that matter.
Well, in the gentlest possible way, it was a poor example. We are struggling to come to terms with a rather nebulous opponent that, while backed by state actors, isn't one. It has pretty much global reach and is not impressed by the alleged benefits of Western secular democracies, even when living in said democracies. Rather, it's actively repelled by what they offer. That's completely new to us. It's very hard for us to combat memes.
Hard. Yes. But not impossible provided (a) we have the will and (b) we realise that we have to win the ideological battle, the battle of ideas. And that means challenging in every possible way and at every opportunity the Islamist ideology and its religious underpinnings so that what survives is only an Islam which is willing and able to accommodate itself to the Western world in which it finds itself. Fighting and security and intelligence are all necessary but not sufficient.
Hard work and it will take time. But better than the deluded wish fulfilment that seems to pass for policy on this in most countries.
Mrs. Free, I might suggest that Islam in terms of reforming its idea so that it can cope in the West with the 21st century is a long way behind where the RC church was when Luther nailed up his nine articles - Luther was tapping into a spring of support for reform that had existed for a long time. I see no such support in Islam.
Nonetheless, the Reformation took a long, long time, several wars and, in terms of the population at the time, a huge number of deaths.
If you are pinning your hope on reforming a religion that has as its fundamental belief the Koran is the expressed, perfect word of God, well good luck. If it happens at all it will not happen peacefully the Saudi's will take care of that.
Currently reading a history of Venice, which occasionally has to detour to encompass the pre-Reformation Papacy. John XXII (strictly speaking an anti-Pope) was a good example of the high Medieval breed. He was eventually charged with piracy, rape, sodomy, murder and incest. Apart from that, he was a really good bloke.
Still took over a hundred years before people decided that enough was enough.
Labour have to lose an election with Jezza if they want rid of him. And they have to be seen to be backing him wholeheartedly in the attempt, otherwise it will look like sabotaging their own man.
I don't even know why they want to get rid of him anyway. It's not like they've got anyone else half capable.
Agree. Sadly the MPs are too terrified of the short run cost/worried that their long term ambitions will slip away from them that they don't see this yet. They desperately seek a fix that simply isn't there.
Mr. Better, except for Woolfe[sp] are there any other announced UKIP leadership candidates.
Well it would explain why he was fawning a bit on Corbyn this afternoon on TV.
"Corbyn helped me rediscover my radicalism" and all.
In what sense is Corbyn radical? He's rather conservative if anything: an old-fashioned lefty of a type entirely familiar to anyone who remembers the 1970's. It is very good of him to conserve this type so that those who did not live through that time can think they've discovered the political Ark of the Covenant.
But radical in any meaningful sense he is not.
This. It's strange, but you could say that the most powerful figures at the top of Labour right now (Corbyn, McDonnell, McCluskey etc) are white, straight conservative men. Which is odd for a party that seems to identify itself with 'equality'. Increasingly, Labour is becoming more and more detached from that ideal.
OT, but I'm reading up on Marion Marechal Le Pen. She has some....errr....colourful views. I'm not a fan, I have to say.
She's very sexy, tho. One of the few genuinely beautiful female politicians.
I'd be worried she'd take me outside into the yard for a post coital execution if my pillow talk wasn't to her liking, though.
I wonder just why May was so brutal towards Osborne?
Revenge is a dish best served cold.
I liked Cameron and the Cameroons, but it was no secret how disdainful they were of both their own PCP and the membership if not part of the Notting Hill set.
Osborne was the "brains" behind the whole Cameron operation. Particularly in this parliament.
If May didn't like the Cameroon modus operandi then Osborne would always have been top of the list for dismissal.
Sounds like she told him exactly what she thought of it.
I think I am becoming an ardent Mayite.
I rather think I am swinging that way too, Mr. Royale. I cannot remember when I have felt so upbeat about the Conservative Party front bench. Not perfect (what that dopey doris Rudd is doing at Home Secretary I struggle to think), but in her appointments TM has, on the whole, surpassed my expectations.
I also liked her answer to the heavily loaded question yesterday about the use of nuclear weapons, ".... Would you use them? " Answer "Yes".
I wonder just why May was so brutal towards Osborne?
Because he's a bit of a c*nt?
LOL everyone really does hate George Osborne!
Yes, but there's a reason for that.
In the end, everyone worked out that they were all dispensable, in Osborne's eyes, if he calculated it gave him a narrow tactical advantage for his career.
And he was happy to change those calculations frequently, and regularly.
Didn't help that he had less personal empathy than a great white shark either.
I'm not a fan of George Osborne myself. Indeed I was pretty happy to see that he was not going to be a part of this government! But I was just curious as to May's particular issue with him. When you say everyone felt they were dispensable to Osborne who are you referring to? MPs, membership, staff - the GBP? I get the feeling that his acolytes in the Treasury and the likes of Hancock, Javid and Perry certainly weren't feeling that they were dispensable to Osborne.
RE Osborne's empathy. Have there been any stories suggesting that he isn't the most empathetic person? He sure does come across that way!
Mr. Better, except for Woolfe[sp] are there any other announced UKIP leadership candidates.
Well it would explain why he was fawning a bit on Corbyn this afternoon on TV.
"Corbyn helped me rediscover my radicalism" and all.
In what sense is Corbyn radical? He's rather conservative if anything: an old-fashioned lefty of a type entirely familiar to anyone who remembers the 1970's. It is very good of him to conserve this type so that those who did not live through that time can think they've discovered the political Ark of the Covenant.
But radical in any meaningful sense he is not.
This. It's strange, but you could say that the most powerful figures at the top of Labour right now (Corbyn, McDonnell, McCluskey etc) are white, straight conservative men. Which is odd for a party that seems to identify itself with 'equality'. Increasingly, Labour is becoming more and more detached from that ideal.
OT, but I'm reading up on Marion Marechal Le Pen. She has some....errr....colourful views. I'm not a fan, I have to say.
She's very sexy, tho. One of the few genuinely beautiful female politicians.
Fit but fascist is possibly not a great recommendation though.
What a brave, principled, selfless woman Angela Eagle has proved herself to be. I actually feel a little bit emotional about it. Unlike some, she has put the Labour party first. She has gone up massively in my estimation.
No doubt, though, that Owen Smith is better placed to beat Corbyn. He has a tiny chance, but it does exist. If by some miracle it happens, Angela Eagle will earn the undying gratitude of millions of Labour voters.
+1
Btw my earlier reply to you top of PT
I saw. Thank you. A small world.
I go to Italy for a fortnight and when I come back I find that a Gail's Artisan Bakery (for heaven's sake) has now opened in West Hampstead. The place is going to the dogs. I'd impose a Stupidity Tax on anyone daft enough to pay the sort of prices they charge.
Gail's must be a chain, for I am sure I have seen it somewhere else.
Coming back to London from Italy was always rather grim (although not with today's weather), even when I lived in West Hampstead.
It is a chain. An overpriced chain for people with more money than sense.
It seems somewhat rude to suggest that West Hampstead nowadays might not be such a bad target market. Sorry.
No need to apologise. I'm sure they've done their research. It's just a bit depressing for me to see overpriced useless shops replace useful ones. Gentrification usually means that in order to buy a nail you have to drive miles but within walking distance there are 35 estate agents and 42 coffee shops, none of which make a decent coffee.
Well we can only hope that Brexit will see off at least half of the estate agents!
House prices in London are ludicrous. They've just put the flat my Mum grew up in (sadly she didn't own it, but it was her Dad's grace & favour) for £150m. £150m. FOR A FUCKING FLAT.
Osborne was a useful fall guy and probably had a few more years left in him in this role. I guess TM felt the need to balance competence-based appointments with strategic politicking, and demoting Osborne to something like Trade and Industry so he could continue to take the rap for fanhitting shit would've been a disingenuous move too far.
Osborne was a useful fall guy and probably had a few more years left in him in this role. I guess TM felt the need to balance competence-based appointments with strategic politicking, and demoting Osborne to something like Trade and Industry so he could continue to take the rap for fanhitting shit would've been a disingenuous move too far.
He certainly proved to be a good shit magnetic for Cameron.
Mr. Better, except for Woolfe[sp] are there any other announced UKIP leadership candidates.
Well it would explain why he was fawning a bit on Corbyn this afternoon on TV.
"Corbyn helped me rediscover my radicalism" and all.
In what sense is Corbyn radical? He's rather conservative if anything: an old-fashioned lefty of a type entirely familiar to anyone who remembers the 1970's. It is very good of him to conserve this type so that those who did not live through that time can think they've discovered the political Ark of the Covenant.
But radical in any meaningful sense he is not.
OT, but I'm reading up on Marion Marechal Le Pen. She has some....errr....colourful views. I'm not a fan, I have to say.
I recall reading some while ago that Marine Le Pen was truly the visionary of the family, and the one with intellect and guile, in that she eschewed the less wholesome tactics of her father (and I think he has been expelled from the FM now?) to broaden the appeal of the movement, but that Marion, her niece, was a chip off the old racist bloc of her granddad. No idea if that was or still is the case, admittedly.
And yes, from a shallow perspective SeanT is correct.
What a brave, principled, selfless woman Angela Eagle has proved herself to be. I actually feel a little bit emotional about it. Unlike some, she has put the Labour party first. She has gone up massively in my estimation.
No doubt, though, that Owen Smith is better placed to beat Corbyn. He has a tiny chance, but it does exist. If by some miracle it happens, Angela Eagle will earn the undying gratitude of millions of Labour voters.
Yeah, yeah: I don't doubt your sincerity. But it looks as if the woman was used to do what no-one else had the guts to do and then was discarded.
And this is the party which, its insufferable sense of moral superiority intact, has the gall to lecture the rest of us on equality.
It stinks.
Better for Corbyn to stay, be roundly defeated and from the ashes maybe decent Labour party members like you can create a left of centre party which actually acts on the liberal principles it claims to believe in and which the rest of us could even consider voting for.
+1
Btw my earlier reply to you top of PT
I saw. Thank you. A small world.
I go to Italy for a fortnight and when I come back I find that a Gail's Artisan Bakery (for heaven's sake) has now opened in West Hampstead. The place is going to the dogs. I'd impose a Stupidity Tax on anyone daft enough to pay the sort of prices they charge.
Gail's must be a chain, for I am sure I have seen it somewhere else.
Coming back to London from Italy was always rather grim (although not with today's weather), even when I lived in West Hampstead.
It is a chain. An overpriced chain for people with more money than sense.
Sounds perfect for Hampstead!
Yes. Hampstead High Street is full of dreadfully overpriced shops - with one or two exceptions - and even more ghastly customers who bring out my inner SWP member! When I am dictator - along with abolishing cultural and moral relativism and identity politics (the phrase "Speaking as a ... woman/gay man etc...." will lead to a prison term) - Bugaboo prams, Farrow and Ball paint, overpriced croissants, coffee shops pretending that something akin to Ovaltine is a coffee and women wearing exercise gear with full make up and blow dried hair while driving those stupid four-wheeled tractor cars will all lead to some sort of punishment, yet to be determined. Oh and Waterstones will be required to have assistants who actually read books.
Mr. Better, except for Woolfe[sp] are there any other announced UKIP leadership candidates.
Well it would explain why he was fawning a bit on Corbyn this afternoon on TV.
"Corbyn helped me rediscover my radicalism" and all.
In what sense is Corbyn radical? He's rather conservative if anything: an old-fashioned lefty of a type entirely familiar to anyone who remembers the 1970's. It is very good of him to conserve this type so that those who did not live through that time can think they've discovered the political Ark of the Covenant.
But radical in any meaningful sense he is not.
This. It's strange, but you could say that the most powerful figures at the top of Labour right now (Corbyn, McDonnell, McCluskey etc) are white, straight conservative men. Which is odd for a party that seems to identify itself with 'equality'. Increasingly, Labour is becoming more and more detached from that ideal.
OT, but I'm reading up on Marion Marechal Le Pen. She has some....errr....colourful views. I'm not a fan, I have to say.
Marion is the one that runs the South of France?
When I used to work in industrial relations, the unions sometimes sent in their team of middle aged white male officials to ask what we as an employer were doing on diversity; always seemed a bit incongruous.
If this is correct, then May is less intelligent than she appears. It doesn't serve her purpose at all beyond what sacking him did. She'll have made an enemy of someone who does still have tendrils throughout the tory party.
Also, in the professional world when you are sacking someone you tend to do it in the most diplomatic way possible, does she think she's Lord Sugar on the apprentice, pointing her finger across the table at Ozzy?
I am glad to see Osborne out of government and hopefully an end to Osbornomics, I just down think it's a smart move on her part.
I wonder just why May was so brutal towards Osborne?
Revenge is a dish best served cold.
I liked Cameron and the Cameroons, but it was no secret how disdainful they were of both their own PCP and the membership if not part of the Notting Hill set.
Osborne was the "brains" behind the whole Cameron operation. Particularly in this parliament.
If May didn't like the Cameroon modus operandi then Osborne would always have been top of the list for dismissal.
Sounds like she told him exactly what she thought of it.
I think I am becoming an ardent Mayite.
I rather think I am swinging that way too, Mr. Royale. I cannot remember when I have felt so upbeat about the Conservative Party front bench. Not perfect (what that dopey doris Rudd is doing at Home Secretary I struggle to think), but in her appointments TM has, on the whole, surpassed my expectations.
I also liked her answer to the heavily loaded question yesterday about the use of nuclear weapons, ".... Would you use them? " Answer "Yes".
Yes. I am quietly hopeful that she will exceed expectations. I think she's spent the last few years in dignified silence quietly thinking, 'I could do a much better job than this lot'.
@SophyRidgeSky: A woman has never placed above a man in any Labour leadership election. Female candidates have always come bottom.
Owen Smith, the "normal" candidate....his words not mine.
In the Labour Party selectorate's defence on this issue, their women candidates have, at least in recent years, been awful. Angela Eagle may be an excellent constituency MP and effective in other ways, but was atrocious at arguing why she should lead the party. 'Because I'm a northern woman and not a Tory' doesn't cut it. Similarly, Yvette Cooper appeared to campaign on the basis of saying absolutely nothing to offend anyone. I initially had high hopes of Liz Kendall, but she quickly retreated into platitudes - although her problem was much more that the party didn't much like what she had to offer than anything to do with her gender. Is part of the problem the old Labour Party chestnut that 'it's time for a woman' - focusing debate much more on the gender of the candidate and much less on what the candidate has to offer? Other parties seem to pay much less attention to the gender of the candidate and therefore candidates - female or otherwise - are forced to put more effort into defining a policy position?
What was it that attracted you to the billionaire Donald?
I said earlier it was one of the greatest political trolls of all time. There's even a Rickroll right there in the speech. The Donald loves free publicity, and he's got it.
"He will never, ever, give up. And, most importantly, he will never, ever, let you down.
The IRA had objectives that were subject to negotiation, and were very susceptible to infiltration. Neither apply to Salafism, unless we all adopt the Jim Jones solution and save 'em the bother.
For heaven's sake, it was just an example!
I could just as easily have said we'd worked out why people called Fritz kept shouting "Uber Alles" and killing everyone - or any other offensive stereotype you can thing of for that matter.
Well, in the gentlest possible way, it was a poor example. We are struggling to come to terms with a rather nebulous opponent that, while backed by state actors, isn't one. It has pretty much global reach and is not impressed by the alleged benefits of Western secular democracies, even when living in said democracies. Rather, it's actively repelled by what they offer. That's completely new to us. It's very hard for us to combat memes.
Hard. Yes. But not impossible provided (a) we have the will and (b) we realise that we have to win the ideological battle, the battle of ideas. And that means challenging in every possible way and at every opportunity the Islamist ideology and its religious underpinnings so that what survives is only an Islam which is willing and able to accommodate itself to the Western world in which it finds itself. Fighting and security and intelligence are all necessary but not sufficient.
Hard work and it will take time. But better than the deluded wish fulfilment that seems to pass for policy on this in most countries.
Mrs. Free, I might suggest that Islam in terms of reforming its idea so that it can cope in the West with the 21st century is a long way behind where the RC church was when Luther nailed up his nine articles - Luther was tapping into a spring of support for reform that had existed for a long time. I see no such support in Islam.
Nonetheless, the Reformation took a long, long time, several wars and, in terms of the population at the time, a huge number of deaths.
If you are pinning your hope on reforming a religion that has as its fundamental belief the Koran is the expressed, perfect word of God, well good luck. If it happens at all it will not happen peacefully the Saudi's will take care of that.
I'm not pinning my hopes on this. But a start has to be made somewhere. Anyway, I like ideas and I like battles of ideas so that's what I'm doing even if I'm probably only talking to myself.
Anyway, as Mr Burke once said: "Stupid is the man who did nothing because he could only do a little."
If this is correct, then May is less intelligent than she appears. It doesn't serve her purpose at all beyond what sacking him did. She'll have made an enemy of someone who does still have tendrils throughout the tory party.
Also, in the professional world when you are sacking someone you tend to do it in the most diplomatic way possible, does she think she's Lord Sugar on the apprentice, pointing her finger across the table at Ozzy?
I am glad to see Osborne out of government and hopefully an end to Osbornomics, I just down think it's a smart move on her part.
Mr. Better, except for Woolfe[sp] are there any other announced UKIP leadership candidates.
Well it would explain why he was fawning a bit on Corbyn this afternoon on TV.
"Corbyn helped me rediscover my radicalism" and all.
In what sense is Corbyn radical? He's rather conservative if anything: an old-fashioned lefty of a type entirely familiar to anyone who remembers the 1970's. It is very good of him to conserve this type so that those who did not live through that time can think they've discovered the political Ark of the Covenant.
But radical in any meaningful sense he is not.
OT, but I'm reading up on Marion Marechal Le Pen. She has some....errr....colourful views. I'm not a fan, I have to say.
I recall reading some while ago that Marine Le Pen was truly the visionary of the family, and the one with intellect and guile, in that she eschewed the less wholesome tactics of her father (and I think he has been expelled from the FM now?) to broaden the appeal of the movement, but that Marion, her niece, was a chip off the old racist bloc of her granddad. No idea if that was or still is the case, admittedly.
And yes, from a shallow perspective SeanT is correct.
Yes, which is why I find the POV that Marion is the one to lead FN to glory, rather odd. It seems to me Marion is far more right-wing than her aunt. I'm not sure how that is going to make FN more transfer-friendly.
Currently reading a history of Venice, which occasionally has to detour to encompass the pre-Reformation Papacy. John XXII (strictly speaking an anti-Pope) was a good example of the high Medieval breed. He was eventually charged with piracy, rape, sodomy, murder and incest. Apart from that, he was a really good bloke.
Still took over a hundred years before people decided that enough was enough.
Quite so, Mr. M (though I have long suspected John XXII was stitched up) and at one stage we did have three extant popes. The point remains that to reform the catholic church took, from an almost running start, decades and numerous wars and lots of deaths. Islam in not even ready to start the process. Look around - it is regressing.
What Mrs Free is hoping for is, I think. the same level of wish as for unicorns and every little girl to have a pony.
If this is correct, then May is less intelligent than she appears. It doesn't serve her purpose at all beyond what sacking him did. She'll have made an enemy of someone who does still have tendrils throughout the tory party.
Also, in the professional world when you are sacking someone you tend to do it in the most diplomatic way possible, does she think she's Lord Sugar on the apprentice, pointing her finger across the table at Ozzy?
I am glad to see Osborne out of government and hopefully an end to Osbornomics, I just down think it's a smart move on her part.
I suppose that depends if he genuinely is in this for the long term or not. David Davis shows how one can nurse a grudge for a long time, waiting for your moment to come again, and despite the ecstasy at present some are experiencing May will face difficult moments, and as unpopular as he is, Osborne could well be someone who could make things difficult for her if he so chose, presuming he is still around
She's taken the opportunity to not only sack him but let it be known she did so in a particularly brutal way, which has its advantages, but also runs the risk of provoking longer term issues from Osborne or others if she treats others in a similar fashion.
Although that just makes me think of that awful Thatcher film, the main takeaway I got from was that apparently people turned against Thatcher because she snapped at them rudely sometimes, it was so bad at delving into any of the issues.
I wonder just why May was so brutal towards Osborne?
Because he's a bit of a c*nt?
LOL everyone really does hate George Osborne!
Yes, but there's a reason for that.
In the end, everyone worked out that they were all dispensable, in Osborne's eyes, if he calculated it gave him a narrow tactical advantage for his career.
And he was happy to change those calculations frequently, and regularly.
Didn't help that he had less personal empathy than a great white shark either.
I'm not a fan of George Osborne myself. Indeed I was pretty happy to see that he was not going to be a part of this government! But I was just curious as to May's particular issue with him. When you say everyone felt they were dispensable to Osborne who are you referring to? MPs, membership, staff - the GBP? I get the feeling that his acolytes in the Treasury and the likes of Hancock, Javid and Perry certainly weren't feeling that they were dispensable to Osborne.
RE Osborne's empathy. Have there been any stories suggesting that he isn't the most empathetic person? He sure does come across that way!
Everyone. MPs, voters, members.
The way to get on with Osborne was to become his vassal. Refusal earned you personal enmity and exile. There was that MP who said, and I paraphrase slightly, 'people think Osborne is a Machiavellian devil. Well, I've worked with him and know him and I can tell you, he's much worse than that.'
He's now getting a bit of a taste of his own medicine.
I shall always be a member/President of the George Osborne fan club. Top top bloke.
Just read this speech he gave last night, here's an excerpt, true one nation Toryism at its finest.
It was a Conservative, William Wilberforce, who ended the slave trade.
It was a Conservative, Edward Stanley, who then abolished slavery itself.
It was a Conservative, the Earl of Shaftesbury, who promoted the Factory Acts that limited working hours and banned the employment of young children.
It was a Conservative, Lord Salisbury, who introduced free elementary education.
It was Conservatives in government who extended the franchise to working men, and then a Conservative, Stanley Baldwin, that ensured equal votes for women.
It was a Conservative, Rab Butler, who legislated for universal state education.
It was a Conservative, Margaret Thatcher, who gave people the right to buy their council homes.
It was a Conservative, John Major, and his junior minister William Hague, who introduced the landmark Disability Discrimination Act.
And it was a Conservative, David Cameron, who introduced equal marriage.
Why aren’t we prouder of this record as a party? Why don’t we shout it from the rooftops?
It’s made our society stronger and fairer and better.
It’s been the all-too-well kept secret of our political success
Since being accused of being a fascist on here recently, I suppose I should be more forgiving of other people labelled as fascist, as its amazing what can get you labelled as such thesedays.
What on earth do they teach in history lessons these days??????
People called Mohammed are, documentedly, shouting "allahu akbar" and attacking people, with at least two instances in the last week. I was asking politely whether your claim about people called Fritz shouting "uber alles" was also literally true.
I think it is pretty well established that it is at least figuratively true, even if specific instances of gentlemen named Fritz saying the exact words may be harder to chronicle this far on!
It's unlikely that Fritz would have shouted "über alles".
"Deutschland über alles" isn't, as commonly supposed, about Germany conquering the world. It means "Germany above everything", i.e. the concept of Germany should be the most important thing in a German's life, a bit like "I vow to thee, my country, all earthly things above…". An outdated concept now, admittedly.
The lyrics were written in 1841, thus predating the Third Reich by some considerable time, and it became the official national anthem in 1922, during the Weimar Republic.
Yes. Hampstead High Street is full of dreadfully overpriced shops - with one or two exceptions - and even more ghastly customers who bring out my inner SWP member! When I am dictator - along with abolishing cultural and moral relativism and identity politics (the phrase "Speaking as a ... woman/gay man etc...." will lead to a prison term) - Bugaboo prams, Farrow and Ball paint, overpriced croissants, coffee shops pretending that something akin to Ovaltine is a coffee and women wearing exercise gear with full make up and blow dried hair while driving those stupid four-wheeled tractor cars will all lead to some sort of punishment, yet to be determined. Oh and Waterstones will be required to have assistants who actually read books.
Hampstead High Street also has Jin Kichi, one of London's best (and best value) Japanese restaurants. There is also the Unitarian church and the Everyman cinema. Plus Tesco.
Since being accused of being a fascist on here recently, I suppose I should be more forgiving of other people labelled as fascist, as its amazing what can get you labelled as such thesedays.
I wonder just why May was so brutal towards Osborne?
Because he's a bit of a c*nt?
LOL everyone really does hate George Osborne!
Yes, but there's a reason for that.
In the end, everyone worked out that they were all dispensable, in Osborne's eyes, if he calculated it gave him a narrow tactical advantage for his career.
And he was happy to change those calculations frequently, and regularly.
Didn't help that he had less personal empathy than a great white shark either.
I'm not a fan of George Osborne myself. Indeed I was pretty happy to see that he was not going to be a part of this government! But I was just curious as to May's particular issue with him. When you say everyone felt they were dispensable to Osborne who are you referring to? MPs, membership, staff - the GBP? I get the feeling that his acolytes in the Treasury and the likes of Hancock, Javid and Perry certainly weren't feeling that they were dispensable to Osborne.
RE Osborne's empathy. Have there been any stories suggesting that he isn't the most empathetic person? He sure does come across that way!
Everyone. MPs, voters, members.
The way to get on with Osborne was to become his vassal. Refusal earned you personal enmity and exile. There was that MP who said, and I paraphrase slightly, 'people think Osborne is a Machiavellian devil. Well, I've worked with him and know him and I can tell you, he's much worse than that.'
He's now getting a bit of a taste of his own medicine.
I heard he was a lot nicer than he appeared, and David Cameron was a lot less nice, but it's all stories, I guess.
I shall always be a member/President of the George Osborne fan club. Top top bloke.
Just read this speech he gave last night, here's an excerpt, true one nation Toryism at its finest.
It was a Conservative, William Wilberforce, who ended the slave trade.
It was a Conservative, Edward Stanley, who then abolished slavery itself.
It was a Conservative, the Earl of Shaftesbury, who promoted the Factory Acts that limited working hours and banned the employment of young children.
It was a Conservative, Lord Salisbury, who introduced free elementary education.
It was Conservatives in government who extended the franchise to working men, and then a Conservative, Stanley Baldwin, that ensured equal votes for women.
It was a Conservative, Rab Butler, who legislated for universal state education.
It was a Conservative, Margaret Thatcher, who gave people the right to buy their council homes.
It was a Conservative, John Major, and his junior minister William Hague, who introduced the landmark Disability Discrimination Act.
And it was a Conservative, David Cameron, who introduced equal marriage.
Why aren’t we prouder of this record as a party? Why don’t we shout it from the rooftops?
It’s made our society stronger and fairer and better.
It’s been the all-too-well kept secret of our political success
Since being accused of being a fascist on here recently, I suppose I should be more forgiving of other people labelled as fascist, as its amazing what can get you labelled as such thesedays.
I was once accused of being an Islamophobe on PB
I'd actually be interested in taking those political compass style surveys for other countries, just to see if in Canada I was a raging conservative or something, but as I speak no other languages it'd be difficult to manage outside the anglosphere.
Last time I took a British one I had trended a bit left, actually. My best though was doing a survey and getting a percentage match against the parties that had 5 of them within 5% of each other. Apparently its only the Greens I have a real issue with.
I wonder just why May was so brutal towards Osborne?
Because he's a bit of a c*nt?
LOL everyone really does hate George Osborne!
Yes, but there's a reason for that.
In the end, everyone worked out that they were all dispensable, in Osborne's eyes, if he calculated it gave him a narrow tactical advantage for his career.
And he was happy to change those calculations frequently, and regularly.
Didn't help that he had less personal empathy than a great white shark either.
I'm not a fan of George Osborne myself. Indeed I was pretty happy to see that he was not going to be a part of this government! But I was just curious as to May's particular issue with him. When you say everyone felt they were dispensable to Osborne who are you referring to? MPs, membership, staff - the GBP? I get the feeling that his acolytes in the Treasury and the likes of Hancock, Javid and Perry certainly weren't feeling that they were dispensable to Osborne.
RE Osborne's empathy. Have there been any stories suggesting that he isn't the most empathetic person? He sure does come across that way!
Everyone. MPs, voters, members.
The way to get on with Osborne was to become his vassal. Refusal earned you personal enmity and exile. There was that MP who said, and I paraphrase slightly, 'people think Osborne is a Machiavellian devil. Well, I've worked with him and know him and I can tell you, he's much worse than that.'
He's now getting a bit of a taste of his own medicine.
I heard he was a lot nicer than he appeared, and David Cameron was a lot less nice, but it's all stories, I guess.
I was told, there's two types of people in the world, those who hate David Cameron, and those yet to meet him.
I shall always be a member/President of the George Osborne fan club. Top top bloke.
Just read this speech he gave last night, here's an excerpt, true one nation Toryism at its finest.
It was a Conservative, William Wilberforce, who ended the slave trade.
It was a Conservative, Edward Stanley, who then abolished slavery itself.
It was a Conservative, the Earl of Shaftesbury, who promoted the Factory Acts that limited working hours and banned the employment of young children.
It was a Conservative, Lord Salisbury, who introduced free elementary education.
It was Conservatives in government who extended the franchise to working men, and then a Conservative, Stanley Baldwin, that ensured equal votes for women.
It was a Conservative, Rab Butler, who legislated for universal state education.
It was a Conservative, Margaret Thatcher, who gave people the right to buy their council homes.
It was a Conservative, John Major, and his junior minister William Hague, who introduced the landmark Disability Discrimination Act.
And it was a Conservative, David Cameron, who introduced equal marriage.
Why aren’t we prouder of this record as a party? Why don’t we shout it from the rooftops?
It’s made our society stronger and fairer and better.
It’s been the all-too-well kept secret of our political success
Developers RamJam created the game, Southern Rail Tycoon, after getting fed up of the operator's service - and so far 45,000 people have tried it out.
The game starts off with a view of the station and the player has to click on guards to stop them boarding carriages, as well as clicking on passengers to take their money from them. By preventing enough guards from working, the trains are then cancelled. Once a sufficient number of train guards board on a train and a delayed service eventually departs, the player loses the game.
Brighton-based developer Tom Jackson told the BBC: 'We all were planning to go to London a month ago and trains were delayed, then delayed, then delayed and then eventually cancelled. 'We were so frustrated by the whole thing that we've stopped using the trains
I wonder just why May was so brutal towards Osborne?
Because he's a bit of a c*nt?
LOL everyone really does hate George Osborne!
Yes, but there's a reason for that.
In the end, everyone worked out that they were all dispensable, in Osborne's eyes, if he calculated it gave him a narrow tactical advantage for his career.
And he was happy to change those calculations frequently, and regularly.
Didn't help that he had less personal empathy than a great white shark either.
I'm not a fan of George Osborne myself. Indeed I was pretty happy to see that he was not going to be a part of this government! But I was just curious as to May's particular issue with him. When you say everyone felt they were dispensable to Osborne who are you referring to? MPs, membership, staff - the GBP? I get the feeling that his acolytes in the Treasury and the likes of Hancock, Javid and Perry certainly weren't feeling that they were dispensable to Osborne.
RE Osborne's empathy. Have there been any stories suggesting that he isn't the most empathetic person? He sure does come across that way!
Everyone. MPs, voters, members.
The way to get on with Osborne was to become his vassal. Refusal earned you personal enmity and exile. There was that MP who said, and I paraphrase slightly, 'people think Osborne is a Machiavellian devil. Well, I've worked with him and know him and I can tell you, he's much worse than that.'
He's now getting a bit of a taste of his own medicine.
I heard he was a lot nicer than he appeared, and David Cameron was a lot less nice, but it's all stories, I guess.
He didn't appear very nice at all, so not a high bar.
Dave could be aloof, curt, terse and distant - I've certainly heard that as well.
Since being accused of being a fascist on here recently, I suppose I should be more forgiving of other people labelled as fascist, as its amazing what can get you labelled as such thesedays.
I was once accused of being an Islamophobe on PB
I'd actually be interested in taking those political compass style surveys for other countries, just to see if in Canada I was a raging conservative or something, but as I speak no other languages it'd be difficult to manage outside the anglosphere.
Last time I took a British one I had trended a bit left, actually. My best though was doing a survey and getting a percentage match against the parties that had 5 of them within 5% of each other. Apparently its only the Greens I have a real issue with.
Every time I do an American political compass one, I'm always a left wing Democrat.
Currently reading a history of Venice, which occasionally has to detour to encompass the pre-Reformation Papacy. John XXII (strictly speaking an anti-Pope) was a good example of the high Medieval breed. He was eventually charged with piracy, rape, sodomy, murder and incest. Apart from that, he was a really good bloke.
Still took over a hundred years before people decided that enough was enough.
Quite so, Mr. M (though I have long suspected John XXII was stitched up) and at one stage we did have three extant popes. The point remains that to reform the catholic church took, from an almost running start, decades and numerous wars and lots of deaths. Islam in not even ready to start the process. Look around - it is regressing.
What Mrs Free is hoping for is, I think. the same level of wish as for unicorns and every little girl to have a pony.
Mr Llama - what I am hoping for is for us to take the intellectual and ideological challenge to Islam in the same way that was done to Christianity. It was given no quarter and to survive it had to adapt. I am not expecting Islam to reform any time soon, if ever. But I am furious at the way we won't even try to stand up for our own values and at least take the fight to our intellectual enemies. We are abandoning those liberals within Islam who are trying save the best of Islam. We ought to stand with them and support them.
And if there is a chance that it gives courage to those who despair at what Islamism has done to the best of Islam, if it means that one or two or maybe more young men and women don't take the path of violence or see the errors of their ways, then isn't that worth doing?
Mr. Better, except for Woolfe[sp] are there any other announced UKIP leadership candidates.
Well it would explain why he was fawning a bit on Corbyn this afternoon on TV.
"Corbyn helped me rediscover my radicalism" and all.
In what sense is Corbyn radical? He's rather conservative if anything: an old-fashioned lefty of a type entirely familiar to anyone who remembers the 1970's. It is very good of him to conserve this type so that those who did not live through that time can think they've discovered the political Ark of the Covenant.
But radical in any meaningful sense he is not.
This. It's strange, but you could say that the most powerful figures at the top of Labour right now (Corbyn, McDonnell, McCluskey etc) are white, straight conservative men. Which is odd for a party that seems to identify itself with 'equality'. Increasingly, Labour is becoming more and more detached from that ideal.
OT, but I'm reading up on Marion Marechal Le Pen. She has some....errr....colourful views. I'm not a fan, I have to say.
Marion is the one that runs the South of France?
When I used to work in industrial relations, the unions sometimes sent in their team of middle aged white male officials to ask what we as an employer were doing on diversity; always seemed a bit incongruous.
Mr. Better, except for Woolfe[sp] are there any other announced UKIP leadership candidates.
Well it would explain why he was fawning a bit on Corbyn this afternoon on TV.
"Corbyn helped me rediscover my radicalism" and all.
In what sense is Corbyn radical? He's rather conservative if anything: an old-fashioned lefty of a type entirely familiar to anyone who remembers the 1970's. It is very good of him to conserve this type so that those who did not live through that time can think they've discovered the political Ark of the Covenant.
But radical in any meaningful sense he is not.
OT, but I'm reading up on Marion Marechal Le Pen. She has some....errr....colourful views. I'm not a fan, I have to say.
I recall reading some while ago that Marine Le Pen was truly the visionary of the family, and the one with intellect and guile, in that she eschewed the less wholesome tactics of her father (and I think he has been expelled from the FM now?) to broaden the appeal of the movement, but that Marion, her niece, was a chip off the old racist bloc of her granddad. No idea if that was or still is the case, admittedly.
And yes, from a shallow perspective SeanT is correct.
Yes, which is why I find the POV that Marion is the one to lead FN to glory, rather odd. It seems to me Marion is far more right-wing than her aunt. I'm not sure how that is going to make FN more transfer-friendly.
Marion is personally popular but her politics are pretty much identical to Jean-Marie minus the (overt) anti-semitism. She's actually so reactionary she supports pre-revolutionary ideals, I think she even supports the restoration of a monarchy, she would want a catholic theocratic state (she's also much more capitalist) - she doesn't support the values of the republic. Marine on the other hand is much more populist - statist on all fronts. She is arguing against islam, from the point of view that it is incompatible with the aggressively secular french state. Marine's position has a higher potential than Marion's.
I shall always be a member/President of the George Osborne fan club. Top top bloke.
Just read this speech he gave last night, here's an excerpt, true one nation Toryism at its finest.
It was a Conservative, William Wilberforce, who ended the slave trade.
It was a Conservative, Edward Stanley, who then abolished slavery itself.
It was a Conservative, the Earl of Shaftesbury, who promoted the Factory Acts that limited working hours and banned the employment of young children.
It was a Conservative, Lord Salisbury, who introduced free elementary education.
It was Conservatives in government who extended the franchise to working men, and then a Conservative, Stanley Baldwin, that ensured equal votes for women.
It was a Conservative, Rab Butler, who legislated for universal state education.
It was a Conservative, Margaret Thatcher, who gave people the right to buy their council homes.
It was a Conservative, John Major, and his junior minister William Hague, who introduced the landmark Disability Discrimination Act.
And it was a Conservative, David Cameron, who introduced equal marriage.
Why aren’t we prouder of this record as a party? Why don’t we shout it from the rooftops?
It’s made our society stronger and fairer and better.
It’s been the all-too-well kept secret of our political success
I wonder just why May was so brutal towards Osborne?
Because he's a bit of a c*nt?
LOL everyone really does hate George Osborne!
Yes, but there's a reason for that.
In the end, everyone worked out that they were all dispensable, in Osborne's eyes, if he calculated it gave him a narrow tactical advantage for his career.
And he was happy to change those calculations frequently, and regularly.
Didn't help that he had less personal empathy than a great white shark either.
I'm not a fan of George Osborne myself. Indeed I was pretty happy to see that he was not going to be a part of this government! But I was just curious as to May's particular issue with him. When you say everyone felt they were dispensable to Osborne who are you referring to? MPs, membership, staff - the GBP? I get the feeling that his acolytes in the Treasury and the likes of Hancock, Javid and Perry certainly weren't feeling that they were dispensable to Osborne.
RE Osborne's empathy. Have there been any stories suggesting that he isn't the most empathetic person? He sure does come across that way!
Everyone. MPs, voters, members.
The way to get on with Osborne was to become his vassal. Refusal earned you personal enmity and exile. There was that MP who said, and I paraphrase slightly, 'people think Osborne is a Machiavellian devil. Well, I've worked with him and know him and I can tell you, he's much worse than that.'
He's now getting a bit of a taste of his own medicine.
I heard he was a lot nicer than he appeared, and David Cameron was a lot less nice, but it's all stories, I guess.
I was told, there's two types of people in the world, those who hate David Cameron, and those yet to meet him.
I found that an inaccurate statement.
I did really warm to Osborne when he gave the press conference and ruled himself out from the leadership race.
Joking aside I think he did well with a poor hand, but was simply too political a chancellor for my appetite.
He didn't appear very nice at all, so not a high bar.
Dave could be aloof, curt, terse and distant - I've certainly heard that as well.
Ultimately, none of know any of the people involved, so we're all guessing. And even if we disagree with the actions of people, I have no doubt they sincerely believed that what they were doing was in the best interests of the people of the United Kingdom.
"French Prime Minister Manuel Valls warned Tuesday that the country can expect more attacks and deaths and will have to "learn to live with the threat".
"Even if these words are hard to say, it's my duty to do so: There will be other attacks and there will be other innocent people killed," Valls told French deputies debating an extension to the country's state of emergency.
"We must not become accustomed, but learn to live with this menace," added Valls, speaking days after an attacker ploughed a truck through a crowd at a July 14 fireworks display in Nice, killing 84 people."
Mr. Better, except for Woolfe[sp] are there any other announced UKIP leadership candidates.
Well it would explain why he was fawning a bit on Corbyn this afternoon on TV.
"Corbyn helped me rediscover my radicalism" and all.
In what sense is Corbyn radical? He's rather conservative if anything: an old-fashioned lefty of a type entirely familiar to anyone who remembers the 1970's. It is very good of him to conserve this type so that those who did not live through that time can think they've discovered the political Ark of the Covenant.
But radical in any meaningful sense he is not.
OT, but I'm reading up on Marion Marechal Le Pen. She has some....errr....colourful views. I'm not a fan, I have to say.
I recall reading some while ago that Marine Le Pen was truly the visionary of the family, and the one with intellect and guile, in that she eschewed the less wholesome tactics of her father (and I think he has been expelled from the FM now?) to broaden the appeal of the movement, but that Marion, her niece, was a chip off the old racist bloc of her granddad. No idea if that was or still is the case, admittedly.
And yes, from a shallow perspective SeanT is correct.
Yes, which is why I find the POV that Marion is the one to lead FN to glory, rather odd. It seems to me Marion is far more right-wing than her aunt. I'm not sure how that is going to make FN more transfer-friendly.
Marion is personally popular but her politics are pretty much identical to Jean-Marie minus the (overt) anti-semitism. She's actually so reactionary she supports pre-revolutionary ideals, I think she even supports the restoration of a monarchy, she would want a catholic theocratic state (she's also much more capitalist) - she doesn't support the values of the republic. Marine on the other hand is much more populist - statist on all fronts. She is arguing against islam, from the point of view that it is incompatible with the aggressively secular french state. Marine's position has a higher potential than Marion's.
Bloody hell. I wonder how the restoration of the monarchy would go down with the French population?
What was it that attracted you to the billionaire Donald?
I said earlier it was one of the greatest political trolls of all time. There's even a Rickroll right there in the speech. The Donald loves free publicity, and he's got it.
"He will never, ever, give up. And, most importantly, he will never, ever, let you down.
Presumably, nor will he run away or desert you.
More likely to be a disgruntled speechwriter wanting to get their own back. We need to start looking for increasingly obscure pop lyrics in Trump's own speeches from now on. Maybe there's a clue hidden in there as well that spells out 'only an idiot would listen to this dangerous clown'.
I wonder just why May was so brutal towards Osborne?
Because he's a bit of a c*nt?
LOL everyone really does hate George Osborne!
Yes, but there's a reason for that.
In the end, everyone worked out that they were all dispensable, in Osborne's eyes, if he calculated it gave him a narrow tactical advantage for his career.
And he was happy to change those calculations frequently, and regularly.
Didn't help that he had less personal empathy than a great white shark either.
I'm not a fan of George Osborne myself. Indeed I was pretty happy to see that he was not going to be a part of this government! But I was just curious as to May's particular issue with him. When you say everyone felt they were dispensable to Osborne who are you referring to? MPs, membership, staff - the GBP? I get the feeling that his acolytes in the Treasury and the likes of Hancock, Javid and Perry certainly weren't feeling that they were dispensable to Osborne.
RE Osborne's empathy. Have there been any stories suggesting that he isn't the most empathetic person? He sure does come across that way!
Everyone. MPs, voters, members.
The way to get on with Osborne was to become his vassal. Refusal earned you personal enmity and exile. There was that MP who said, and I paraphrase slightly, 'people think Osborne is a Machiavellian devil. Well, I've worked with him and know him and I can tell you, he's much worse than that.'
He's now getting a bit of a taste of his own medicine.
I heard he was a lot nicer than he appeared, and David Cameron was a lot less nice, but it's all stories, I guess.
I was told, there's two types of people in the world, those who hate David Cameron, and those yet to meet him.
I found that an inaccurate statement.
I did really warm to Osborne when he gave the press conference and ruled himself out from the leadership race.
Joking aside I think he did well with a poor hand, but was simply too political a chancellor for my appetite.
Whilst you might not agree or like George Osborne, I admired his loyalty to the party and Cameron, everything he did was for what he perceived in the best interests of Dave.
No one can ever come up with any examples of George on the record/off the record criticising Dave.
Given the history of spats between No 10 and No 11 in the past, that's quite an achievement,
Comments
Smith approached it with at least an appearance of making policy choices (his referendum stance is relatively bold and doesn't fall into the trap of the Blairites since 2010 of buying into the tyranny of the majority and believing it somehow anti-centrist to oppose the policies of a government with a majority). If she'd talked about why she was "Labour to the core" and what that meant she'd actually set out to do she'd probably have won due to first mover advantage. Instead she just came across as David "because I think I'd be good at it" Cameron only without the PR polish and likeable manner.
Hard work and it will take time. But better than the deluded wish fulfilment that seems to pass for policy on this in most countries.
On that note, have a good summer everyone!
"Corbyn helped me rediscover my radicalism" and all.
You may appreciate this satirical Twitter feed [nothing to do with me], which is good for light relief in that, and other areas. https://twitter.com/GodfreyElfwick
According to the BBC the stabbing in the Alps has no indication religion was involved: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36837108
and american marines in the pacific always said "cop this tojo" before throwing a hand grenade.
Ref: not wikipedia, Battle comic.
"I love Jeremy, I do. He inspired me to do so much, to become radical, to rediscover my true political compass, and to try and replace him as leader so he can return to justified and eternal exile on the backbenches where he belongs."
I don't even know why they want to get rid of him anyway. It's not like they've got anyone else half capable.
If May didn't like the Cameroon modus operandi then Osborne would always have been top of the list for dismissal.
Sounds like she told him exactly what she thought of it.
I think I am becoming an ardent Mayite.
But radical in any meaningful sense he is not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_(chemistry)
Nonetheless, the Reformation took a long, long time, several wars and, in terms of the population at the time, a huge number of deaths.
If you are pinning your hope on reforming a religion that has as its fundamental belief the Koran is the expressed, perfect word of God, well good luck. If it happens at all it will not happen peacefully the Saudi's will take care of that.
"Please don't hurt me Jeremy, I didn't mean to run against you, honest"
OT, but I'm reading up on Marion Marechal Le Pen. She has some....errr....colourful views. I'm not a fan, I have to say.
In the end, everyone worked out that they were all dispensable, in Osborne's eyes, if he calculated it gave him a narrow tactical advantage for his career.
And he was happy to change those calculations frequently, and regularly.
Didn't help that he had less personal empathy than a great white shark either.
Is the correct aphorism to use when chucking a Mills bomb, as I recall!
@SeanT eat your heart out
Still took over a hundred years before people decided that enough was enough.
I also liked her answer to the heavily loaded question yesterday about the use of nuclear weapons, ".... Would you use them? " Answer "Yes".
RE Osborne's empathy. Have there been any stories suggesting that he isn't the most empathetic person? He sure does come across that way!
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2016/jul/19/compare-melania-trumps-speech-with-michelle-obamas-2008-address-video
What was it that attracted you to the billionaire Donald?
And yes, from a shallow perspective SeanT is correct.
When I used to work in industrial relations, the unions sometimes sent in their team of middle aged white male officials to ask what we as an employer were doing on diversity; always seemed a bit incongruous.
Also, in the professional world when you are sacking someone you tend to do it in the most diplomatic way possible, does she think she's Lord Sugar on the apprentice, pointing her finger across the table at Ozzy?
I am glad to see Osborne out of government and hopefully an end to Osbornomics, I just down think it's a smart move on her part.
Now she has a chance to prove it.
Fingers crossed.
"He will never, ever, give up. And, most importantly, he will never, ever, let you down.
Presumably, nor will he run away or desert you.
Anyway, as Mr Burke once said: "Stupid is the man who did nothing because he could only do a little."
Well hello.
What Mrs Free is hoping for is, I think. the same level of wish as for unicorns and every little girl to have a pony.
She's taken the opportunity to not only sack him but let it be known she did so in a particularly brutal way, which has its advantages, but also runs the risk of provoking longer term issues from Osborne or others if she treats others in a similar fashion.
Although that just makes me think of that awful Thatcher film, the main takeaway I got from was that apparently people turned against Thatcher because she snapped at them rudely sometimes, it was so bad at delving into any of the issues.
The way to get on with Osborne was to become his vassal. Refusal earned you personal enmity and exile. There was that MP who said, and I paraphrase slightly, 'people think Osborne is a Machiavellian devil. Well, I've worked with him and know him and I can tell you, he's much worse than that.'
He's now getting a bit of a taste of his own medicine.
Just read this speech he gave last night, here's an excerpt, true one nation Toryism at its finest.
It was a Conservative, William Wilberforce, who ended the slave trade.
It was a Conservative, Edward Stanley, who then abolished slavery itself.
It was a Conservative, the Earl of Shaftesbury, who promoted the Factory Acts that limited working hours and banned the employment of young children.
It was a Conservative, Lord Salisbury, who introduced free elementary education.
It was Conservatives in government who extended the franchise to working men, and then a Conservative, Stanley Baldwin, that ensured equal votes for women.
It was a Conservative, Rab Butler, who legislated for universal state education.
It was a Conservative, Margaret Thatcher, who gave people the right to buy their council homes.
It was a Conservative, John Major, and his junior minister William Hague, who introduced the landmark Disability Discrimination Act.
And it was a Conservative, David Cameron, who introduced equal marriage.
Why aren’t we prouder of this record as a party? Why don’t we shout it from the rooftops?
It’s made our society stronger and fairer and better.
It’s been the all-too-well kept secret of our political success
http://www.cps.org.uk/about/news/q/date/2016/07/18/margaret-thatcher-lecture-2016-rt-hon-george-osborne-mp/
"Deutschland über alles" isn't, as commonly supposed, about Germany conquering the world. It means "Germany above everything", i.e. the concept of Germany should be the most important thing in a German's life, a bit like "I vow to thee, my country, all earthly things above…". An outdated concept now, admittedly.
The lyrics were written in 1841, thus predating the Third Reich by some considerable time, and it became the official national anthem in 1922, during the Weimar Republic.
I think you knew that though
I'd actually be interested in taking those political compass style surveys for other countries, just to see if in Canada I was a raging conservative or something, but as I speak no other languages it'd be difficult to manage outside the anglosphere.
Last time I took a British one I had trended a bit left, actually. My best though was doing a survey and getting a percentage match against the parties that had 5 of them within 5% of each other. Apparently its only the Greens I have a real issue with.
I found that an inaccurate statement.
Developers RamJam created the game, Southern Rail Tycoon, after getting fed up of the operator's service - and so far 45,000 people have tried it out.
The game starts off with a view of the station and the player has to click on guards to stop them boarding carriages, as well as clicking on passengers to take their money from them.
By preventing enough guards from working, the trains are then cancelled.
Once a sufficient number of train guards board on a train and a delayed service eventually departs, the player loses the game.
Brighton-based developer Tom Jackson told the BBC: 'We all were planning to go to London a month ago and trains were delayed, then delayed, then delayed and then eventually cancelled.
'We were so frustrated by the whole thing that we've stopped using the trains
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3697723/Congratulations-trains-cancelled-profit-11-403-Frustrated-Southern-Rail-customers-create-scathing-spoof-game-aim-provide-WORST-service-possible.html#ixzz4EtC6LxWU
Dave could be aloof, curt, terse and distant - I've certainly heard that as well.
And if there is a chance that it gives courage to those who despair at what Islamism has done to the best of Islam, if it means that one or two or maybe more young men and women don't take the path of violence or see the errors of their ways, then isn't that worth doing?
I'm increasingly of the belief Labour should separate from the unions tbh. Far too many Union heads seem to be too interested in power.
Joking aside I think he did well with a poor hand, but was simply too political a chancellor for my appetite.
"French Prime Minister Manuel Valls warned Tuesday that the country can expect more attacks and deaths and will have to "learn to live with the threat".
"Even if these words are hard to say, it's my duty to do so: There will be other attacks and there will be other innocent people killed," Valls told French deputies debating an extension to the country's state of emergency.
"We must not become accustomed, but learn to live with this menace," added Valls, speaking days after an attacker ploughed a truck through a crowd at a July 14 fireworks display in Nice, killing 84 people."
No one can ever come up with any examples of George on the record/off the record criticising Dave.
Given the history of spats between No 10 and No 11 in the past, that's quite an achievement,