Is this when PB Tories stop saying "Angela is rubbish" and pivot seamlessly to "You should have chosen the woman you sexists"?
You should have chosen the woman you sexists.
By which I mean Lisa Nandy [clutches betting slip].
I think the only woman who came close to being Labour leader was Barbara Castle. And she would have been, if she hadn't slept with a Tory millionaire in his yacht at the middle of a crucial industrial dispute.
What?
Oh come on Plato, we've all done that.
Absolutely. He that is without sin cast etc.
And what a dull life he led
Outrage the neighbours is more my style.
I've had my moments . Well, decade maybe. Ah, the 80s. If I could remember you, I'd probably miss you.
My mum's credo was two fold *always make sure you have the next one lined up before you dump the last - Henry VIII had the right idea* and *don't give a fig what anyone else thinks*
A very Bohemian view of life - she was brought up as an ultra strict Catholic. She rejected her faith on her 18th birthday and seriously feared being struck dead by a bolt of lightning. She deliberately painted her finger and toe nails scarlet as a show of devilish defiance - never saw her without it for 50yrs.
A mere taste of the misery he inflicted on millions of Brits these past 6 years.
Danny, I'm no fan of the Gidiot but to suggest that he presided over mass unemployment is simply wrong.
May was totally correct that he overpromised and underdelivered. That made him a lousy politician. But actually contrary to Labour propaganda he was much more successful than Brown or Darling. Brown really did make catastrophic mistakes in terms of borrowing (£50 billion deficit in 2006) and while Darling meant well our economy was still flatlining in 2010 and while we nominally kept our AAA rating our costs of borrowing were actually at about AA levels as it was expected our deficit would go in rising if Labour won rather than falling.
Osborne's mistake was to assume he could eliminate the deficit, cut taxes, increase employment and stabilise private borrowing all at the same time without cutting hard into essential services, which was and is simply not possible given our situation and the huge salary increases Brown gave his client groups. That he promised to do all that shows he was an idiot who didn't know what he was talking about. That he didn't cause another massive collapse however suggests he wasn't completely useless, or at least not as useless as Brown.
DEFECIT DENIER>> hardly surprising since you are Labour,.
AAA Brown vs. AA Osborne
if someone dumps 156 billion quids worth of turds on your lawn, and another 156 billions worth every year thereafter for ever, not surprising that you get a load of shit if you have to spread it out and about to stop it happening
DEFECIT DENIER>> hardly surprising since you are Labour,.
AAA Brown vs. AA Osborne
if someone dumps 156 billion quids worth of turds on your lawn, and another 156 billions worth every year thereafter for ever, not surprising that you get a load of shit if you have to spread it out and about to stop it happening
I think its touching that anyone still cares what the ratings agencies think. The day the UK lost its last AAA rating (the other two agencies cut it in 2013), our borrowing costs went down. The risk premium / credit rating link is pretty broken these days.
I am sure this is part of Osborne's master strategy.
Hell of a fall from grace. Wasn't it only last autumn that the backbenchers were cheering him to the rafters when he announced the living wage? That was his high point and he trundled quickly downhill after that.
High ranking political careers are becoming very similar to those of top level football managers. One season you can win the league, the next you can be out on your arse.
There's a saying in sport that you are never as good as people tell you you are when you're winning and you are never as bad as you think you are when you lose.
I suspect Osborne's actual career as chancellor was a lot more steady and prosaic than the frenzied headlines that accompanied it.
Across Europe whole schools of sociology professors will now be being deployed to come up with any explanation for why people called Mohammed keep on shouting ‘Allahu Akbar’ and killing everyone. With appropriate levels of funding they could well come up with the perfect way in which to miss the point by the middle of the 22nd century.
Well, we in the UK worked out some time ago why people called Paddy kept on shouting "Give Ireland back to the Irish" a killing everone. Not only that, but we worked out how to stop it.
Perhaps our esteemed Boris could offer this information as part of the Brexit negotiations?
The IRA had objectives that were subject to negotiation, and were very susceptible to infiltration. Neither apply to Salafism, unless we all adopt the Jim Jones solution and save 'em the bother.
And in the end the IRA were beaten.
I suspect more could be done re infiltration but in the end we have to defeat Islamism, ideologically as much as on any battlefield. Indeed I would say that the former is more important than the latter.
The IRA were beaten because we could demonstrate that their objectives were ultimately achievable by political means and we made a real effort to deal with legitimate grievances about the administration of Northern Ireland in the meantime.
Unless anyone is happy with taking steps towards the imposition of Islamic government in this country, the same can never be true of Islamism.
The IRA were beaten with the bullet and ballot box. Yes, a reflection of their own strategy. The security services penetrated the Republican and Loyalist paramilitaries to the point where they were encouraging the internal "security organisations" of both groups to murder those opposed to the peace process. Then the British government offered jobs in government to the house trained survivors.
Osborne was elected on ticket to protect our AAA rating and then created a political catastrophe out of thin air and destroyed it overnight.
Nice.
I'm not sure what the political catastrophe is. You are of course correct about Osborne's stated goals and how he failed to achieve them.
Which, as May said, made him a dud politician. But embarrassingly for Labour his record remains better than Brown's.
If losing both your PM and Chancellor just one year into a majority govt after an unplanned Brexit is not a political catastrophe, I don't know what is!
Osborne was elected on ticket to protect our AAA rating and then created a political catastrophe out of thin air and destroyed it overnight.
Nice.
I'm not sure what the political catastrophe is. You are of course correct about Osborne's stated goals and how he failed to achieve them.
Which, as May said, made him a dud politician. But embarrassingly for Labour his record remains better than Brown's.
If losing both your PM and Chancellor just one year into a majority govt after an unplanned Brexit is not a political catastrophe, I don't know what is!
It seemed to me that you were linking it to his economic record and you were saying we lost our rating because of some political catastrophe. I clearly misunderstood you.
Now you have explained, I would have said bluntly that Osborne is no loss and that Cameron's departure was priced in. It was a sudden crisis but hardly a catastrophe.
I know how you feel about Jeremy Corbyn so I'll let the last five words go.
The IRA had objectives that were subject to negotiation, and were very susceptible to infiltration. Neither apply to Salafism, unless we all adopt the Jim Jones solution and save 'em the bother.
For heaven's sake, it was just an example!
I could just as easily have said we'd worked out why people called Fritz kept shouting "Uber Alles" and killing everyone - or any other offensive stereotype you can thing of for that matter.
Douglas Murray is channelling SeanT in the Speccie. http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/french-mood-finally-snaps-marine-le-pen-will-waiting/ Across Europe whole schools of sociology professors will now be being deployed to come up with any explanation for why people called Mohammed keep on shouting ‘Allahu Akbar’ and killing everyone. With appropriate levels of funding they could well come up with the perfect way in which to miss the point by the middle of the 22nd century.
On a previous thread, someone asked why Christians rarely call themselves Jesus Jesus - even in Spain or Mexico.
Reminded me of the footballing Neville twins - their dad was called Neville Neville.
It's not quite true, although much less common in the current generation. The majority of girls in the Philippines over 40 are called Maria, and a pretty fair proportion of guys are called some variation of Joseph or Jesus. Its just that almost everyone here is known by a nickname so you would never know! One of my wife's aunt's has four daughters and a son, all the daughters are called Maria, and the son is called Joseph, so will frequently see names written as "Ma. Christina Dela Cruz".
There was a time not long ago that many priests would refuse to baptise a child if their first name didn't appear (with appropriate connotations) in the Bible. Consider the new vice-president of the Philippines, usually known as Leni Robredo, full name Maria Leonor Santo Tomas Gerona Robredo.
It was surprisingly common in Portugal 40 years ago as well. My mother-in-law, and her sisters were all named Maria X de Andrade. With the X varying with the child. Obviously, they all go by X, and the 'Maria' is restricted to the passport.
Sounds about right. There was, and to an extent still is, to give young Portuguese male Llamas the second name of Maria, e.g Jose Maria .... , Not as common as it once was but still quite prevalent. To compensate most children are known by their third name or a completely unrelated nickname, so it usually doesn't matter that six cousins from the same generation are all named Jose Maria.
The IRA had objectives that were subject to negotiation, and were very susceptible to infiltration. Neither apply to Salafism, unless we all adopt the Jim Jones solution and save 'em the bother.
For heaven's sake, it was just an example!
I could just as easily have said we'd worked out why people called Fritz kept shouting "Uber Alles" and killing everyone - or any other offensive stereotype you can thing of for that matter.
Well, in the gentlest possible way, it was a poor example. We are struggling to come to terms with a rather nebulous opponent that, while backed by state actors, isn't one. It has pretty much global reach and is not impressed by the alleged benefits of Western secular democracies, even when living in said democracies. Rather, it's actively repelled by what they offer. That's completely new to us. It's very hard for us to combat memes.
A mere taste of the misery he inflicted on millions of Brits these past 6 years.
NO NO NO NO NO.. It was Brown who inflicted the misery on the UK.
That's why Lehman Bros collapsing in the US started the whole thing.
It didn't. The crisis had been rumbling for over a year when Lehmann Brothers went down.
Brown's errors were two: 1) to fail to enforce minimal capital ratios in banks due to the weakness of the tripartite system he and Darling had put in place in the teeth of fierce opposition from Eddie George in 1997, leaving the banks horribly reliant on short term borrowing that when the bank markets froze overnight left all bar two of them literally bankrupt;
2) to run a very large deficit in a time of economic growth which had caused our debt to balloon from 30% to 40% of GDP between 2001 and 2007, despite substantial growth in GDP in the same period. He did this because he genuinely believed he had 'abolished boom and bust' (which he later deliberately falsely said had been 'Tory boom and bust'). This left us horribly exposed when a contraction inevitably hit and our tax revenues collapsed.
Like I say, a dismal record. Labour need to face this, 'fess up and apologise. The longer they wrap themselves in the comfort blanket of convincing themselves it was all big business and began in America, the longer it will take them to regain economic credibility and plot a path back to power. Ed Miliband's avoidance strategy led him to defeat. But denial is now taking gargantuan overtones and is the second most serious weakness Labour have after their leadership.
A mere taste of the misery he inflicted on millions of Brits these past 6 years.
NO NO NO NO NO.. It was Brown who inflicted the misery on the UK.
That's why Lehman Bros collapsing in the US started the whole thing.
It didn't. The crisis had been rumbling for over a year when Lehmann Brothers went down.
Brown's errors were two: 1) to fail to enforce minimal capital ratios in banks due to the weakness of the tripartite system he and Darling had put in place in the teeth of fierce opposition from Eddie George in 1997, leaving the banks horribly reliant on short term borrowing that when the bank markets froze overnight left all bar two of them literally bankrupt;
2) to run a very large deficit in a time of economic growth which had caused our debt to balloon from 30% to 40% of GDP between 2001 and 2007, despite substantial growth in GDP in the same period. He did this because he genuinely believed he had 'abolished boom and bust' (which he later deliberately falsely said had been 'Tory boom and bust'). This left us horribly exposed when a contraction inevitably hit and our tax revenues collapsed.
Like I say, a dismal record. Labour need to face this, 'fess up and apologise. The longer they wrap themselves in the comfort blanket of convincing themselves it was all big business and began in America, the longer it will take them to regain economic credibility and plot a path back to power. Ed Miliband's avoidance strategy led him to defeat. But denial is now taking gargantuan overtones and is the second most serious weakness Labour have after their leadership.
Well we'd all be better off now if Ed had won last year.
The IRA had objectives that were subject to negotiation, and were very susceptible to infiltration. Neither apply to Salafism, unless we all adopt the Jim Jones solution and save 'em the bother.
For heaven's sake, it was just an example!
I could just as easily have said we'd worked out why people called Fritz kept shouting "Uber Alles" and killing everyone - or any other offensive stereotype you can thing of for that matter.
But has that ever happened? And if it did, what would the reason for it be that we would have hypothetically worked out?
A mere taste of the misery he inflicted on millions of Brits these past 6 years.
NO NO NO NO NO.. It was Brown who inflicted the misery on the UK.
That's why Lehman Bros collapsing in the US started the whole thing.
It didn't. The crisis had been rumbling for over a year when Lehmann Brothers went down.
Brown's errors were two: 1) to fail to enforce minimal capital ratios in banks due to the weakness of the tripartite system he and Darling had put in place in the teeth of fierce opposition from Eddie George in 1997, leaving the banks horribly reliant on short term borrowing that when the bank markets froze overnight left all bar two of them literally bankrupt;
2) to run a very large deficit in a time of economic growth which had caused our debt to balloon from 30% to 40% of GDP between 2001 and 2007, despite substantial growth in GDP in the same period. He did this because he genuinely believed he had 'abolished boom and bust' (which he later deliberately falsely said had been 'Tory boom and bust'). This left us horribly exposed when a contraction inevitably hit and our tax revenues collapsed.
Like I say, a dismal record. Labour need to face this, 'fess up and apologise. The longer they wrap themselves in the comfort blanket of convincing themselves it was all big business and began in America, the longer it will take them to regain economic credibility and plot a path back to power. Ed Miliband's avoidance strategy led him to defeat. But denial is now taking gargantuan overtones and is the second most serious weakness Labour have after their leadership.
Well we'd all be better off now if Ed had won last year.
@SkyNewsBreak: Mark Cavendish says he has left this year's Tour de France saying continuing would have a "detrimental effect" on his Olympic aspirations
The IRA had objectives that were subject to negotiation, and were very susceptible to infiltration. Neither apply to Salafism, unless we all adopt the Jim Jones solution and save 'em the bother.
For heaven's sake, it was just an example!
I could just as easily have said we'd worked out why people called Fritz kept shouting "Uber Alles" and killing everyone - or any other offensive stereotype you can thing of for that matter.
But has that ever happened? And if it did, what would the reason for it be that we would have hypothetically worked out?
Well, we did finally cotton to what Herr Hitler meant by that 'lebensraum' crack.
Is this when PB Tories stop saying "Angela is rubbish" and pivot seamlessly to "You should have chosen the woman you sexists"?
This. Weren't Tories recently being very critical of Eagle? Far more than Smith. PB hates 'identity politics' - except when it can lambast the Labour party using 'identity politics'.
A mere taste of the misery he inflicted on millions of Brits these past 6 years.
NO NO NO NO NO.. It was Brown who inflicted the misery on the UK.
That's why Lehman Bros collapsing in the US started the whole thing.
It didn't. The crisis had been rumbling for over a year when Lehmann Brothers went down.
Brown's errors were two: 1) to fail to enforce minimal capital ratios in banks due to the weakness of the tripartite system he and Darling had put in place in the teeth of fierce opposition from Eddie George in 1997, leaving the banks horribly reliant on short term borrowing that when the bank markets froze overnight left all bar two of them literally bankrupt;
2) to run a very large deficit in a time of economic growth which had caused our debt to balloon from 30% to 40% of GDP between 2001 and 2007, despite substantial growth in GDP in the same period. He did this because he genuinely believed he had 'abolished boom and bust' (which he later deliberately falsely said had been 'Tory boom and bust'). This left us horribly exposed when a contraction inevitably hit and our tax revenues collapsed.
Like I say, a dismal record. Labour need to face this, 'fess up and apologise. The longer they wrap themselves in the comfort blanket of convincing themselves it was all big business and began in America, the longer it will take them to regain economic credibility and plot a path back to power. Ed Miliband's avoidance strategy led him to defeat. But denial is now taking gargantuan overtones and is the second most serious weakness Labour have after their leadership.
Well we'd all be better off now if Ed had won last year.
One day, Mr Jonathan, I will take the bus up to Horsham and we can sit in the Bear while you explain the logic behind that post to me. We will need to start early at lunchtime, otherwise I doubt we will have enough time.
Is this when PB Tories stop saying "Angela is rubbish" and pivot seamlessly to "You should have chosen the woman you sexists"?
This. Weren't Tories recently being very critical of Eagle? Far more than Smith. PB hates 'identity politics' - except when it can lambast the Labour party using 'identity politics'.
I was certainly critical of each candidate that argued that their personal attributes uniquely fitted them for leadership. I don't care that Burnham is a Northern football supporter. Leadsom's motherhood leaves me cold. Eagle's lesbianism is irrelevant. I couldn't give two hoots that May is state educated.
Symbolism and tokenism is for twelve year olds. What's their vision for the country? What do they want to achieve? How do they propose to do so? How will they pay for it?
It had to be a Owen. But the way Angela has been treated is disgusting and the guns are now emptying their barrels of hate at him now instead. Someone said it's another man. Yes - because of positioning. Had Lisa Nandy stepped up it would have been her. As a feminist I advocate equality in all things but equality doesn't mean advancing a candidate less well suited just because of gender.
Having supported Angela Eagle for deputy last year it's been disappointing how poorly she has come across in recent weeks. May well be the massive pressure she has been put under - regardless of party I have huge respect for all our politicians who open themselves their family and friends to this level of abuse.
A mere taste of the misery he inflicted on millions of Brits these past 6 years.
NO NO NO NO NO.. It was Brown who inflicted the misery on the UK.
That's why Lehman Bros collapsing in the US started the whole thing.
It didn't. The crisis had been rumbling for over a year when Lehmann Brothers went down.
Brown's errors were two: 1) to fail to enforce minimal capital ratios in banks due to the weakness of the tripartite system he and Darling had put in place in the teeth of fierce opposition from Eddie George in 1997, leaving the banks horribly reliant on short term borrowing that when the bank markets froze overnight left all bar two of them literally bankrupt;
Wasn't the bank capital requirements set by the Basle 2 accords, which came to the UK as an EU directive?
@patrickwintour: Since 1906 there have been 19 different Labour leaders, not counting acting leaders. All male, all of the time. Glass ceiling bit visible.
Is this when PB Tories stop saying "Angela is rubbish" and pivot seamlessly to "You should have chosen the woman you sexists"?
This. Weren't Tories recently being very critical of Eagle? Far more than Smith. PB hates 'identity politics' - except when it can lambast the Labour party using 'identity politics'.
I was certainly critical of each candidate that argued that their personal attributes uniquely fitted them for leadership. I don't care that Burnham is a Northern football supporter. Leadsom's motherhood leaves me cold. Eagle's lesbianism is irrelevant. I couldn't give two hoots that May is state educated.
Symbolism and tokenism is for twelve year olds. What's their vision for the country? What do they want to achieve? How do they propose to do so? How will they pay for it?
I doubt many in the Labour party could provide coherent answers to your last three questions, sadly. I agree with SouthamOsbserver that Eagle has been incredibly self-sacrificing as of late. She may not be the most ideal leader, but she definitely cares about the Labour party and the country having some semblance of an opposition.
I wonder just why May was so brutal towards Osborne?
Revenge is a dish best served cold.
I liked Cameron and the Cameroons, but it was no secret how disdainful they were of both their own PCP and the membership if not part of the Notting Hill set.
That's interesting. It paints a very different picture of his character than the one we've been used to hearing. Some have been at pains to portrait Osborne as this amiable guy who has a great sense of humour. That tweet portraits Osborne as the exact opposite.
Is this when PB Tories stop saying "Angela is rubbish" and pivot seamlessly to "You should have chosen the woman you sexists"?
This. Weren't Tories recently being very critical of Eagle? Far more than Smith. PB hates 'identity politics' - except when it can lambast the Labour party using 'identity politics'.
I was certainly critical of each candidate that argued that their personal attributes uniquely fitted them for leadership. I don't care that Burnham is a Northern football supporter. Leadsom's motherhood leaves me cold. Eagle's lesbianism is irrelevant. I couldn't give two hoots that May is state educated.
Symbolism and tokenism is for twelve year olds. What's their vision for the country? What do they want to achieve? How do they propose to do so? How will they pay for it?
Quite right, Mr. M.. The other day someone on here said that Justine Greening was a member of the LGBT community (under which heading was not mentioned). I felt quite pleased because she has been a politician and minister for some years without me ever knowing that she was a member of of this newly protected minority. As far as I was am am concerned she is just another useless politician who can either be house trained by her officials in very short order or one who will spout off any old rubbish if it pleases the PM. Who or what she chooses to go to bed with is rightly none of my business.
I wonder just why May was so brutal towards Osborne?
Could be a number of reasons.
1) She thinks he's incompetent but has never been able to say so 2) She dislikes him personally 3) Allowing him to leave with dignity makes it more likely he will stick around long term and become a potential rival or successor (however improbable that seems, he is still only 45), whereas publicly trashing him makes him less a problem short term as he's too hurt bu the referendum to fight back, and it might persuade him not to stick around 4) It helps develop a narrative of ruthlessness that may or may not be true (some reports she was forced not to let Gove back in), and a narrative of change - so she can get non-Cameroons on board, while potentially retaining Cameroons so long as other change was actually minimal
A mere taste of the misery he inflicted on millions of Brits these past 6 years.
NO NO NO NO NO.. It was Brown who inflicted the misery on the UK.
That's why Lehman Bros collapsing in the US started the whole thing.
It didn't. The crisis had been rumbling for over a year when Lehmann Brothers went down.
Brown's errors were two: 1) to fail to enforce minimal capital ratios in banks due to the weakness of the tripartite system he and Darling had put in place in the teeth of fierce opposition from Eddie George in 1997, leaving the banks horribly reliant on short term borrowing that when the bank markets froze overnight left all bar two of them literally bankrupt;
Wasn't the bank capital requirements set by the Basle 2 accords, which came to the UK as an EU directive?
It doesn't matter who set them. The problem was that they were not being enforced.
Regulations and laws are no damn good if nobody polices them, which is what had happened to our banks between 1997 and 2008.
@HurstLlama I think @Jonathan meant there would have been no EU vote and no Brexit with concomitant economic shocks and uncertainty.
@patrickwintour: Since 1906 there have been 19 different Labour leaders, not counting acting leaders. All male, all of the time. Glass ceiling bit visible.
But strangely 50% of acting leaders have been female - Attlee, Brown, Beckett and Harman.
Edit - I forgot Lansbury, but Harman had two goes of course so the stat still stands.
I wonder just why May was so brutal towards Osborne?
Revenge is a dish best served cold.
I liked Cameron and the Cameroons, but it was no secret how disdainful they were of both their own PCP and the membership if not part of the Notting Hill set.
IIRC Blair and his associates had a similar attitude to the PLP and the Labour party membership. But it did seem as if Cameron and Osborne were awfully cliquey. Weren't many of Cameron's 'advisors' and Downing Street Staff previously his friends and contemporaries? That did make me side eye him a bit.
That's interesting. It paints a very different picture of his character than the one we've been used to hearing. Some have been at pains to portrait Osborne as this amiable guy who has a great sense of humour. That tweet portraits Osborne as the exact opposite.
I have no way of knowing which account is true, but it is worth noting Nadine Dorries will hardly be an unbiased source when it comes to George and Dave.
I wonder just why May was so brutal towards Osborne?
Could be a number of reasons.
1) She thinks he's incompetent but has never been able to say so 2) She dislikes him personally 3) Allowing him to leave with dignity makes it more likely he will stick around long term and become a potential rival or successor (however improbable that seems, he is still only 45), whereas publicly trashing him makes him less a problem short term as he's too hurt bu the referendum to fight back, and it might persuade him not to stick around 4) It helps develop a narrative of ruthlessness that may or may not be true (some reports she was forced not to let Gove back in), and a narrative of change - so she can get non-Cameroons on board, while potentially retaining Cameroons so long as other change was actually minimal
I think (1, (2, and (4 are especially spot on. I think Osborne may try to make May's life difficult in the future. I think the biggest issue for him however, is that Tory MPs right now don't seem to be Osborne's biggest fans. His reputation took a huge tonking in the last year or so with them.
I wonder just why May was so brutal towards Osborne?
Revenge is a dish best served cold.
I liked Cameron and the Cameroons, but it was no secret how disdainful they were of both their own PCP and the membership if not part of the Notting Hill set.
IIRC Blair and his associates had a similar attitude to the PLP and the Labour party membership. But it did seem as if Cameron and Osborne were awfully cliquey. Weren't many of Cameron's 'advisors' and Downing Street Staff previously his friends and contemporaries? That did make me side eye him a bit.
Both Blair and Cameron ran sofa governments. Wilson was similarly inclined. I think May will revert to a more formal cabinet-centric regime. She'll certainly keep ministers on a tighter leash, for good or ill. She'll also be more ready to sack them.
A mere taste of the misery he inflicted on millions of Brits these past 6 years.
NO NO NO NO NO.. It was Brown who inflicted the misery on the UK.
That's why Lehman Bros collapsing in the US started the whole thing.
It didn't. The crisis had been rumbling for over a year when Lehmann Brothers went down.
Brown's errors were two: 1) to fail to enforce minimal capital ratios in banks due to the weakness of the tripartite system he and Darling had put in place in the teeth of fierce opposition from Eddie George in 1997, leaving the banks horribly reliant on short term borrowing that when the bank markets froze overnight left all bar two of them literally bankrupt;
Wasn't the bank capital requirements set by the Basle 2 accords, which came to the UK as an EU directive?
@HurstLlama I think @Jonathan meant there would have been no EU vote and no Brexit with concomitant economic shocks and uncertainty.
Maybe, Doctor, but that is not what he said and I am quite sure he is a big enough boy to tell me himself what he meant.
Mind, you if you want to come down to the Bear at Horsham and join in the discussion you would be more than welcome.
What on earth do they teach in history lessons these days??????
Well in fairness I teach mostly on the war in the Pacific rather than the war in Poland. So my pupils might not be able to teach you that specific fact either.
And of course in the Holocaust they didn't shout because the gas masks got in the way.
Is this when PB Tories stop saying "Angela is rubbish" and pivot seamlessly to "You should have chosen the woman you sexists"?
This. Weren't Tories recently being very critical of Eagle? Far more than Smith. PB hates 'identity politics' - except when it can lambast the Labour party using 'identity politics'.
I was certainly critical of each candidate that argued that their personal attributes uniquely fitted them for leadership. I don't care that Burnham is a Northern football supporter. Leadsom's motherhood leaves me cold. Eagle's lesbianism is irrelevant. I couldn't give two hoots that May is state educated.
Symbolism and tokenism is for twelve year olds. What's their vision for the country? What do they want to achieve? How do they propose to do so? How will they pay for it?
I doubt many in the Labour party could provide coherent answers to your last three questions, sadly. I agree with SouthamOsbserver that Eagle has been incredibly self-sacrificing as of late. She may not be the most ideal leader, but she definitely cares about the Labour party and the country having some semblance of an opposition.
A mere taste of the misery he inflicted on millions of Brits these past 6 years.
NO NO NO NO NO.. It was Brown who inflicted the misery on the UK.
That's why Lehman Bros collapsing in the US started the whole thing.
It didn't. The crisis had been rumbling for over a year when Lehmann Brothers went down.
Brown's errors were two: 1) to fail to enforce minimal capital ratios in banks due to the weakness of the tripartite system he and Darling had put in place in the teeth of fierce opposition from Eddie George in 1997, leaving the banks horribly reliant on short term borrowing that when the bank markets froze overnight left all bar two of them literally bankrupt;
Wasn't the bank capital requirements set by the Basle 2 accords, which came to the UK as an EU directive?
@HurstLlama I think @Jonathan meant there would have been no EU vote and no Brexit with concomitant economic shocks and uncertainty.
Maybe, Doctor, but that is not what he said and I am quite sure he is a big enough boy to tell me himself what he meant.
Mind, you if you want to come down to the Bear at Horsham and join in the discussion you would be more than welcome.
If Turkey can sack 15,000 education staff at the stroke of a pen, does that mean that their public sector is a little bit bloated...?
Or that Erdogan doesn't care about education. He would make a worthy Secretary of State for Education in this country if so.
If you want something similar a little closer to home (that does not involve military coups and bombs going off but is going to wreck the education of 690 children);
What does the Labour party have to do to elect a female leader?! At least Eagles had the guts to throw her hat in the ring first and challenge Corbyn with all the abuse that came with it. It looks terrible for Owen Smith to immediately follow her over the barricades, and then see the PLP decide that another man in a suit is the best challenger to Corbyn thus forcing Eagles to stand side?!
A mere taste of the misery he inflicted on millions of Brits these past 6 years.
NO NO NO NO NO.. It was Brown who inflicted the misery on the UK.
That's why Lehman Bros collapsing in the US started the whole thing.
It didn't. The crisis had been rumbling for over a year when Lehmann Brothers went down.
Brown's errors were two: 1) to fail to enforce minimal capital ratios in banks due to the weakness of the tripartite system he and Darling had put in place in the teeth of fierce opposition from Eddie George in 1997, leaving the banks horribly reliant on short term borrowing that when the bank markets froze overnight left all bar two of them literally bankrupt;
Wasn't the bank capital requirements set by the Basle 2 accords, which came to the UK as an EU directive?
@HurstLlama I think @Jonathan meant there would have been no EU vote and no Brexit with concomitant economic shocks and uncertainty.
Maybe, Doctor, but that is not what he said and I am quite sure he is a big enough boy to tell me himself what he meant.
Mind, you if you want to come down to the Bear at Horsham and join in the discussion you would be more than welcome.
How can I refuse, Mr Llama?
Well that is damn generous of you, Doctor, However, if memory serves you are based is some benighted place to the West and North of London where trains run infrequently and slowly. For you to get to the Bear in Horsham would be a very big ask, Horsham also being on branch line (well two actually), and even if you made it in you'd probably never get back the same day.
So probably best if we made it a London lunchtime meeting. I haven't been up for a couple of years but there used to be an excellent Italian by Victoria Station, where we can sit, drink wine, eat and natter for hours. Pubs in that part of the world are not good.
What on earth do they teach in history lessons these days??????
People called Mohammed are, documentedly, shouting "allahu akbar" and attacking people, with at least two instances in the last week. I was asking politely whether your claim about people called Fritz shouting "uber alles" was also literally true.
Well in fairness I teach mostly on the war in the Pacific rather than the war in Poland. So my pupils might not be able to teach you that specific fact either.
They leave school not knowing who the protagonists were in World War II?
The media certainly got this completely wrong having speculated prior to Mrs. May's coronation that Philip Hammond and George Osborne were likely to swap jobs, since the then Chancellor had long coveted the Foreign Office. Some swap!
A mere taste of the misery he inflicted on millions of Brits these past 6 years.
NO NO NO NO NO.. It was Brown who inflicted the misery on the UK.
That's why Lehman Bros collapsing in the US started the whole thing.
It didn't. The crisis had been rumbling for over a year when Lehmann Brothers went down.
Brown's errors were two: 1) to fail to enforce minimal capital ratios in banks due to the weakness of the tripartite system he and Darling had put in place in the teeth of fierce opposition from Eddie George in 1997, leaving the banks horribly reliant on short term borrowing that when the bank markets froze overnight left all bar two of them literally bankrupt;
Wasn't the bank capital requirements set by the Basle 2 accords, which came to the UK as an EU directive?
@HurstLlama I think @Jonathan meant there would have been no EU vote and no Brexit with concomitant economic shocks and uncertainty.
Maybe, Doctor, but that is not what he said and I am quite sure he is a big enough boy to tell me himself what he meant.
Mind, you if you want to come down to the Bear at Horsham and join in the discussion you would be more than welcome.
How can I refuse, Mr Llama?
Well that is damn generous of you, Doctor, However, if memory serves you are based is some benighted place to the West and North of London where trains run infrequently and slowly. For you to get to the Bear in Horsham would be a very big ask, Horsham also being on branch line (well two actually), and even if you made it in you'd probably never get back the same day.
So probably best if we made it a London lunchtime meeting. I haven't been up for a couple of years but there used to be an excellent Italian by Victoria Station, where we can sit, drink wine, eat and natter for hours. Pubs in that part of the world are not good.
I will look forward to it. However I am going away for some weeks from tomorrow. Can I contact you again next month?
It's not too hard to get to London from Cannock - I just tend not to go there because I don't like the place.
What on earth do they teach in history lessons these days??????
People called Mohammed are, documentedly, shouting "allahu akbar" and attacking people, with at least two instances in the last week. I was asking politely whether your claim about people called Fritz shouting "uber alles" was also literally true.
I think it is pretty well established that it is at least figuratively true, even if specific instances of gentlemen named Fritz saying the exact words may be harder to chronicle this far on!
Well in fairness I teach mostly on the war in the Pacific rather than the war in Poland. So my pupils might not be able to teach you that specific fact either.
They leave school not knowing who the protagonists were in World War II?
Oh well, at least there's Wikipedia ...
They know that, I just tend not to go into the specifics of land campaigns in the West, or slogans, or anything like that.
The media certainly got this completely wrong having speculated prior to Mrs. May's coronation that Philip Hammond and George Osborne were likely to swap jobs, since the then Chancellor had long coveted the Foreign Office. Some swap!
The media certainly got this completely wrong having speculated prior to Mrs. May's coronation that Philip Hammond and George Osborne were likely to swap jobs, since the then Chancellor had long coveted the Foreign Office. Some swap!
There was also speculation I recall that Gove had taken out Boris as part of a Cameroon suicide plot to clear the way for May. Guess that was totally wrong too ...
What does the Labour party have to do to elect a female leader?! At least Eagles had the guts to throw her hat in the ring first and challenge Corbyn with all the abuse that came with it. It looks terrible for Owen Smith to immediately follow her over the barricades, and then see the PLP decide that another man in a suit is the best challenger to Corbyn thus forcing Eagles to stand side?!
That's interesting. It paints a very different picture of his character than the one we've been used to hearing. Some have been at pains to portrait Osborne as this amiable guy who has a great sense of humour. That tweet portraits Osborne as the exact opposite.
The media certainly got this completely wrong having speculated prior to Mrs. May's coronation that Philip Hammond and George Osborne were likely to swap jobs, since the then Chancellor had long coveted the Foreign Office. Some swap!
One of the reasons it's going to be difficult for the commentariat is that May doesn't socialise, doesn't gossip. A riddle wrapped in an enigma etc.
Comments
A very Bohemian view of life - she was brought up as an ultra strict Catholic. She rejected her faith on her 18th birthday and seriously feared being struck dead by a bolt of lightning. She deliberately painted her finger and toe nails scarlet as a show of devilish defiance - never saw her without it for 50yrs.
May was totally correct that he overpromised and underdelivered. That made him a lousy politician. But actually contrary to Labour propaganda he was much more successful than Brown or Darling. Brown really did make catastrophic mistakes in terms of borrowing (£50 billion deficit in 2006) and while Darling meant well our economy was still flatlining in 2010 and while we nominally kept our AAA rating our costs of borrowing were actually at about AA levels as it was expected our deficit would go in rising if Labour won rather than falling.
Osborne's mistake was to assume he could eliminate the deficit, cut taxes, increase employment and stabilise private borrowing all at the same time without cutting hard into essential services, which was and is simply not possible given our situation and the huge salary increases Brown gave his client groups. That he promised to do all that shows he was an idiot who didn't know what he was talking about. That he didn't cause another massive collapse however suggests he wasn't completely useless, or at least not as useless as Brown.
Nice.
AAA after the crash.
High ranking political careers are becoming very similar to those of top level football managers. One season you can win the league, the next you can be out on your arse.
There's a saying in sport that you are never as good as people tell you you are when you're winning and you are never as bad as you think you are when you lose.
I suspect Osborne's actual career as chancellor was a lot more steady and prosaic than the frenzied headlines that accompanied it.
Which, as May said, made him a dud politician. But embarrassingly for Labour his record remains better than Brown's.
The Islamists love violent factionalism....
Now you have explained, I would have said bluntly that Osborne is no loss and that Cameron's departure was priced in. It was a sudden crisis but hardly a catastrophe.
I know how you feel about Jeremy Corbyn so I'll let the last five words go.
I could just as easily have said we'd worked out why people called Fritz kept shouting "Uber Alles" and killing everyone - or any other offensive stereotype you can thing of for that matter.
Brown's errors were two:
1) to fail to enforce minimal capital ratios in banks due to the weakness of the tripartite system he and Darling had put in place in the teeth of fierce opposition from Eddie George in 1997, leaving the banks horribly reliant on short term borrowing that when the bank markets froze overnight left all bar two of them literally bankrupt;
2) to run a very large deficit in a time of economic growth which had caused our debt to balloon from 30% to 40% of GDP between 2001 and 2007, despite substantial growth in GDP in the same period. He did this because he genuinely believed he had 'abolished boom and bust' (which he later deliberately falsely said had been 'Tory boom and bust'). This left us horribly exposed when a contraction inevitably hit and our tax revenues collapsed.
Like I say, a dismal record. Labour need to face this, 'fess up and apologise. The longer they wrap themselves in the comfort blanket of convincing themselves it was all big business and began in America, the longer it will take them to regain economic credibility and plot a path back to power. Ed Miliband's avoidance strategy led him to defeat. But denial is now taking gargantuan overtones and is the second most serious weakness Labour have after their leadership.
What on earth do they teach in history lessons these days??????
Symbolism and tokenism is for twelve year olds. What's their vision for the country? What do they want to achieve? How do they propose to do so? How will they pay for it?
Having supported Angela Eagle for deputy last year it's been disappointing how poorly she has come across in recent weeks. May well be the massive pressure she has been put under - regardless of party I have huge respect for all our politicians who open themselves their family and friends to this level of abuse.
Climb aboard the pink bus to debate this.
twitter.com/NadineDorriesMP/status/754346597408993280
Shame Eagle isn't standing.
I liked Cameron and the Cameroons, but it was no secret how disdainful they were of both their own PCP and the membership if not part of the Notting Hill set.
1) She thinks he's incompetent but has never been able to say so
2) She dislikes him personally
3) Allowing him to leave with dignity makes it more likely he will stick around long term and become a potential rival or successor (however improbable that seems, he is still only 45), whereas publicly trashing him makes him less a problem short term as he's too hurt bu the referendum to fight back, and it might persuade him not to stick around
4) It helps develop a narrative of ruthlessness that may or may not be true (some reports she was forced not to let Gove back in), and a narrative of change - so she can get non-Cameroons on board, while potentially retaining Cameroons so long as other change was actually minimal
Regulations and laws are no damn good if nobody polices them, which is what had happened to our banks between 1997 and 2008.
@HurstLlama I think @Jonathan meant there would have been no EU vote and no Brexit with concomitant economic shocks and uncertainty.
Edit - I forgot Lansbury, but Harman had two goes of course so the stat still stands.
Indeed, the Eagle has been stranded.
https://sports.ladbrokes.com/en-gb/betting/motor-racing/formula-1/2016-hungarian-grand-prix/222314623/
Mind, you if you want to come down to the Bear at Horsham and join in the discussion you would be more than welcome.
And of course in the Holocaust they didn't shout because the gas masks got in the way.
If you want something similar a little closer to home (that does not involve military coups and bombs going off but is going to wreck the education of 690 children);
http://m.tamworthherald.co.uk/dosthill-school-closed-in-two-day-staff-walkout/story-29529322-detail/story.html
Must be some political news or other that's distracting everyone from the leadership elections in our two smallest parliamentary parties.
Mr. Better, except for Woolfe[sp] are there any other announced UKIP leadership candidates.
So probably best if we made it a London lunchtime meeting. I haven't been up for a couple of years but there used to be an excellent Italian by Victoria Station, where we can sit, drink wine, eat and natter for hours. Pubs in that part of the world are not good.
Oh well, at least there's Wikipedia ...
Some swap!
It's not too hard to get to London from Cannock - I just tend not to go there because I don't like the place.
Well, Osborne did get a F.O.
The latter, I think.