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“We organise. They conspire.” This political conjugation sums up the campaign tactics for the Corbyn Remain campaigners. Momentum are busy organising Momentum meetings around the country while condemning “coups and plots” by those who think he should leave.
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Think I'll just say "hmmmmmm" to that.
Don't think that is the way everyone is going to see it.
EDIT: oh, and I managed to say something substantive-ish and on-topic and still FIRST! First time I've managed that I think.
Dominic Raab 50/1
Kwasi Kwarteng 66/1
Penny Mordaunt 100/1
Rory Stewart 125/1
Mark Harper 200/1
£1175 wanting to back Ben Carson at 95-1 for VP.
Considering the logos are already done for Trump/Pence...
https://twitter.com/mikehearn/status/755260215021432832
TheScreamingEagles said:
"Parliament approved an advisory referendum."
I have the distinct feeling that had Remain won the day the idea of this being an "advisory referendum" would never have seen the light of day
With Corbyn, it is a moral crusade (whether you subscribe to the morals or not).
Some platitude mouthing blairite peddling a pinkish version of the tory manifesto? that isn;t a moral crusade.
And so the labour party faces a dilemma. Survive, or win.
Can't help thinking our smart and canny new PM, who clearly does her homework the night before and not on the bus en route to school like her predecessor, will aided and abetted by her team around her, over the next 12 months broker a multi-party deal involving all interested parties within and outside of the EU, present it to Parliament, have it endorsed by a clear Parliamentary majority, accepted by the devolved nations, and then follow it up with a massive majority at the next GE.
Give or take... ;-)
remember that time Nigel Farage said 52-48 votes should lead to second referendum?
http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/24/remember-that-time-nigel-farage-said-52-48-votes-should-lead-to-second-referendum-5963900/
Really?
Seems to me that in practice incompetence is socialism's defining characteristic.
On a lighter note before I leave, isn't the opening sentence defining an irregular verb? We organise, you conspire, they commit high treason?
It would be nice to see a candidate who offered both. Smith maybe, Eagle appears to offer somewhere between zero and one of the two qualities.
If Jez loses could he claim its undemocratic and continue sitting on the front bench regardless and refuse to hand over. Remain in the HOC office allocated for the LOTO and refuse to be evicted?
I realise this is bordering on the surreal but all the same?
If they choose Corbyn they are accepting the second. If it is Smith, there is still a chance of the first.
Rather than focusing on the values of the alternative candidate - which leads to the dead end of the personalization of the candidate ("I'm a mother / married / gay / a woman / eat yogurt / love my dog / I believe in nice things - yeah, yeah, don't we all dearie") - it would be nice if a candidate promoted a political viewpoint.
Just for a change. Just a thought. It used to happen. It might be nice for it to happen again.
I disagree. Let's say Corbyn went into 2020 with a genuinely hard left programme. How many labour voters would really notice? how many would desert? as Mr Southam says, its tribal.
OF course labour would lose. But they might retain 200mps, or maybe more. That doesn;t look like oblivion to me. Ask the liberal democrats about oblivion.
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/755368797884866561
What is Labour for?
Answers on one side of the paper only, please. Give examples of what the answers mean in practice and your proposals for implementation. Points will be deducted for a one-word answer (e.g. "equality" with no further explanation).
...
..and don't get killed by any.........
Many had hoped it would mark The End. But the fight between Shelterists v The Outdoors Society proved to be the bloodiest in Labour's history...
Doesn't look like it so far...
I am really sad for the Labour party. It's incredible that people who've paid full membership months ago can't vote in the leadership election, but people who can manage to pay £25 in a brief window now can vote. How do they conceive these rules?
Maybe they will be able to come back from this whole mess, but I can't imagine how. Beyond parody.
So many things I can't imagine. What on earth will the Conservatives be reduced to with no effective opposition? What will the impact be on the country? What about all the people who look to Labour (even if mistakenly) to stand up for their interests?
The different course of events is entirely down to the choice that Corbyn has made over the past couple of weeks.
Aye, right...
With all the heartless cruelty and callous coldness of Thatcher but none of the Iron Lady's ability to give away lots and lots of free stuff, her stand offish, out of touch personality seems to belong to a bygone age, where it was expected that a Prime Minister was not one of us.
It seems to me there is an innate unelectability in May which as the Cruella De Ville meme starts to build and take root will only get worse. Thatcher took over from an incredible unpopular government at a time of established turmoil, gaining goodwill she could cement with a military victory and the biggest Socialist give away in British history.
May takes over from a neutral to mildly approved of government, only about to enter a sustained period of economic uncertainty, with no military capable of winning campaign even if one presented itself and nothing to hand out as freebies.
- Equality of opportunity?
- Equality of outcome?
- An equal share equivalent to a person's contribution?
- An equal share equivalent to a person's need?
- Equal shares regardless of any other considerations?
- Equal treatment regardless of a person's behavior?
- Equal treatment based on a person's behavior or other relevant matters?
- Equality in law or equality in fact?
etc etc.......
A vote for Labour is virtue signalling, or it is nothing...
Oh it can be achieved. Venezuela is on its way there now.
I think the narrative has moved on a tad since then Don, naval gazing as to who did what and how, really isn’t going to achieve anything imho. – And yes, ‘Corbyn is beatable’ but not with either of the two candidates standing against him, the back door Trots that ensured he become leader will succeed a second time.
LDs are extremely weak, OK may come back a bit by 2020 but still.... there are very few seats they can win on a small swing.
other difference (bad for labour) is the SNP. Rock bottom for Labour is maybe dropping as low as say 164 MPs like Major in 1997, even with boundary changes
Delegation can come when the ship has settled into a new course.
And the rest is history.
My favourite tweet of the evening was from Tim Stanley - along the lines of "This must be the first time a tee-totaller has sacked someone at 0130".
I'm defining the wider south east here as the London, South East and Eastern regions, collectively accounting for about 38% of UK population.
I do agree that she's a polarising figure, but she oversaw a huge increase in this country's prosperity and completely changed the UK's political narrative. As ever, I'm sure the Scottish perspective is different; given the SNP's dominance there, it's pretty much moot. The next election will be won or lost in England.
An economic policy that provides work that pays properly, educational opportunity for all and a safety net for when things go wrong are pretty much the essentials.
I expect this to come back to haunt me in a second IndyRef. They too would only need 50%+1. Creating new Committees purely as a means of control? Can be smart, but as someone who has had to service many committees, it's a pain in the arse.
There are two Jeremy Corbyns.
The first is a man who has fought a principled battle his whole life. A man with both the strength and conviction to lead both the party and then the country in a leftward realignment. A man who is collegiate and consensual who absolutely does not allow abuse or factionalism of any kind.
The second is a man who says those things but does very few of them and the ones he does do are ineffectual. A man who appoints shadow ministers to a broad tent then ignores them whilst making policy up on the hoof over his head. Who refuses to protect NEC members threatened with violence with a secret ballot.
The Labour Party faces a basic and deadly problem. We have had an explosion in membership - a very good thing. But a large proportion of those people believe in the first Corbyn. Those people who have actually met him and tried to work with him know the first Corbyn is a cartoon character, a poster slogan, a meme utterly disconnected from reality.
Not only that, but this mythical man has become Kim Jong Un. Venerated. Unchallengable. To question him is to out yourself as a BLAIRITE and we all know that BLAIRITES are TORIES. Anyone with a rational mind looks at these examples from the likes of Lillian Greenwood with horror. Multiple sources of evidence documenting different occasions and scenarios but all illustrating the same problem - the absolute inability of the leader to do politics.
For the people invested in the cartoon Jeremy all these MPs are liars. Deluded. Plotters in the Chicken Coup. "They all tell one side of the story". And they need to be deselected because How Dare They say a word against our Leader with his Mandate. Then we come to Tom Watson. Also elected with a substantial mandate. The difference being that we should ignore his mandate and have him DESELECTED as well apparently. The "fat disloyal bastard".
And its not just the MPs. The NEC are in on it. They voted for a freeze date (mandated in rules) AFTER JEREMY LEFT. And it wasn't on the agenda apparently, despite Momentum-supported Ann Black posting a lengthy report from the meeting proving it was.
And so here we are. The membership are blindly supporting a person who doesn't actually exist. Anyone who isn't Corbyn or 100% loyal is a Tory. We in the Labour Party can't trust the MPs the NEC or the Deputy Leader of the Labour Party but once Corbyn is re-elected we will persuade voters to not only trust the Labour Party but to elect us in a landslide.
We are, to put it bluntly, fucked.
I fully expect May to call an election this November and win a majority of 150. At which point the angry mob will no doubt denounce the electorate.
The Left has got out of the habit of thinking about ideas and it needs to relearn the habit, fast. I could provide them with a reading list, if that would help. In fact, if I can be bothered, I may even try and come up with some ideas for them. They certainly need all the help they can get.
Which again, is part of the problem May faces. She will struggle to raise taxes without a backlash despite that being a fairly clear requirement in the UK's current position (but that applies to all politicians in the current age), she doesn't have a bogeyman like the Unions. She can't even form the EU into such a bogeyman given her own record.
The positives and opportunities Thatcher had which made her stern, aloof personality a side issue do not apply to May. Her personality will be a big factor in how successful (or not) her premiership will be.
The civil servants are being merged into BEIS (or BEISt)
https://twitter.com/michaelsavage/status/755367594929053696
Labour indeed does look screwed unless they can find a way to purge Corbyn and Momentum from the party. Smith or Eagle probably wouldn't win a GE either but it would get rid of Corbyn, an existential threat to the Labour Party.
I tweeted sarcastically that we should be grateful. It's not given to many to witness the birth of a new religion. Based on your description, I was spot on. We are collectively fucked.
Scenario 1: Labour just about holds together and fights under one banner.
Scenario 2: Labour splits, pact with LDs
Scenario 3: Labour splits, SDP2 fights alone.
All three would be likely to result in Tory wins - Corbyn alone sees to that - but they'd range from comfortable to a crushing landslide. Both scenarios 2 and 3 could see Labour below 20% and facing a 15-20 point Con lead. That sort of lead, a split Labour support, new boundaries and UKIP in the mix could enable some candidates to win from a very long way back.
Innocent Abroad is right - Labour is a party whose time has gone.
With the one rather large exception of how Brexit pans out, May is also lucky with the political environment, at least as far as her opponents (outside Scotland) are concerned.
Because for all the talk of splits one isn't needed. We just proscribe Momentum. Already we have Labour Party members who don't participate in the actual party, but instead sit quietly making notes at our meetings to then report back to Momentum. At their meetings - full of non-Labour members - they discuss what is happening in CLPs in the area and plot motions against us.
They are by definition a party within a party, and that we can ban under the rulebook. They can go off and form a new left party called Momentum, pull in the NHA and TUSC and SWP etc people. And under Smith the Labour Party will enact the kind of democratic socialist policies these people claim to support - only competently. And we will crush them at the ballot box. I can even see advantage of this as Momentum as a fringe left party could help block the advance of UKIP as a populist party amongst Labour "heartlands"
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