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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » France’s next president: Hollande is sunk but who will foll

SystemSystem Posts: 11,688
edited July 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » France’s next president: Hollande is sunk but who will follow him?

Complacency has been the bane of the established political class across the Western world these last few years; a bad habit it doesn’t seem capable of kicking. Time and again, outsiders have shaken up the order, from Tsipras in Greece to Labour electing Corbyn to Trump taking the Republican nomination to Bernie Sanders running Hillary close to the UK voting for Brexit.

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Comments

  • Options
    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    I don't follow the Bayrou thing. If Hollande is going down hard then the centre-right get tbrough to the second round. Who cares who leada the first round?
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,079
    My sense from watching various interviews is that Le Pen thinks she has the measure of Sarkozy and would enjoy running against him.
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    edited July 2016
    Why the rebranding of the centre right in France?
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,044
    Important news in tech:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

    Genuinely surprised by this.
  • Options

    Important news in tech:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

    Genuinely surprised by this.

    Sad to see a world-class company such as this falling into foreign hands.
    It's incredible to think that Warren East, its driving force for many years in creating such enormous wealth, was awarded a CBE when so many two bit popstars/ actors/ other celebs receive their gongs for achieving next to nothing. It makes a complete mockery of the entire honours system.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Important news in tech:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

    Genuinely surprised by this.

    That is what happens when the pound slides by 10% .
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,190

    Important news in tech:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

    Genuinely surprised by this.

    I thought this was the sort of thing our new PM wanted to stop? Or does this not matter as most people will never have heard of ARM?
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,402
    Juppe.

    The Front National just has too much baggage (at the moment) to win 50%+1 in the second round of a presidential election, and Le Pen lacks something that candidates like Hofer seem to have in Austria.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Useless fact: the United Kingdom is the only country in the world to have both a female head of state and a female head of government at the present time.
  • Options
    Off Topic (sort of)

    Can it really be true, as reported, that balding French President Francois Hollande spends 120,000 Euros per annum looking after his hair, equivalent to around 4 times the average annual earnings of a French worker? ...... Long live Socialism!
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,044

    Important news in tech:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

    Genuinely surprised by this.

    Sad to see a world-class company such as this falling into foreign hands.
    It's incredible to think that Warren East, its driving force for many years in creating such enormous wealth, was awarded a CBE when so many two bit popstars/ actors/ other celebs receive their gongs for achieving next to nothing. It makes a complete mockery of the entire honours system.
    To be fair, ARM was over 50%-foreign owned when it was formed - I think 5% VLSI, 47.5% Apple, 47.5% Acorn.

    The ARMS shares are even said by some to have saved Apple in the early 1990s when they required a cash injection.

    Also note: ARM had big expansion plans, including new offices on Fulbourn Road. They said they were going to double the workforce there last year - so the new owner's commitment to double the workforce is only a commitment to keep to current plans.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,044

    Off Topic (sort of)

    Can it really be true, as reported, that balding French President Francois Hollande spends 120,000 Euros per annum looking after his hair, equivalent to around 4 times the average annual earnings of a French worker? ...... Long live Socialism!

    Any fool can waste money. Big fools can persuade themselves that they're not wasting it.

    Genius fools waste other peoples' money, and persuade them they're not wasting it.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited July 2016
    tlg86 said:

    Important news in tech:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

    Genuinely surprised by this.

    I thought this was the sort of thing our new PM wanted to stop? Or does this not matter as most people will never have heard of ARM?
    Allowing our pension funds to sell an asset for more than its intrinsic worth, crystallize the gain, redeploy the capital into other opportunities and pocket the difference?

    Why would she want to stop that?
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,044
    Charles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Important news in tech:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

    Genuinely surprised by this.

    I thought this was the sort of thing our new PM wanted to stop? Or does this not matter as most people will never have heard of ARM?
    Allowing our pension funds to sell an asset for more than it's intrinsic worth, crystallize the gain, redeploy the capital into other opportunities and pocket the difference?

    Why would she want to stop that?
    Because some might see ARM as a critical business for the UK. We don't have many tech success stories on their scale. (*) Long-term it could harm the Cambridge phenomena, especially if tech and expertise is leached away from the UK.

    I don't know much about Softbank: I can only hope that they're independent enough to be able to persuade licensees they'll treat them all equally.

    (*) And it all happened by glorious accident, which Robin Saxby exploited fully.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    ARM would be worth an absolute fortune to China and has done a lot of business there recently. I wonder if Softbank is a staging post. The Chinese have been trying to acquire a major semiconductor company for a number of years, but have always struggled to get past regulatory authority concerns. Tsinghua tried with Micron last year, for example, but were beaten back before even submitting a formal bid.
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    ARM isn't the first Cambridge-based high tech company to be swallowed up by the Japanese, Brother acquired world-leading Domino Printing Sciences last year, and I feel sure it won't be the last.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    edited July 2016

    I don't know much about Softbank: I can only hope that they're independent enough to be able to persuade licensees they'll treat them all equally.

    I don't suppose the retail consumer experience is of much relevance here but having just paid the rapacious termination fees and finally escaped my phone contract, I can report that Softbank are a bunch of thieves.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    Charles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Important news in tech:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

    Genuinely surprised by this.

    I thought this was the sort of thing our new PM wanted to stop? Or does this not matter as most people will never have heard of ARM?
    Allowing our pension funds to sell an asset for more than its intrinsic worth, crystallize the gain, redeploy the capital into other opportunities and pocket the difference?

    Why would she want to stop that?

    The UK government should, at the very least, want to get very strong reassurances about potential sell-ons to, say, a Chinese entity.

    There's no particular reason for the company to remain UK-based as it does very little manufacturing.

  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,044

    ARM isn't the first Cambridge-based high tech company to be swallowed up by the Japanese, Brother acquired world-leading Domino Printing Sciences last year, and I feel sure it won't be the last.

    Heh. Indeed. A mate was rather depressed by that move. It's become known to some as the Japanese pizza house.

    But ARM's at another scale. If you have a mobile phone, you're almost certain to have an ARM chip inside it, even if the chip is made by Apple, Qualcomm, Broadcom, etc. They also have significant markets in other arenas.

    Over 10 billion ARM chips are made each year.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937

    I don't know much about Softbank: I can only hope that they're independent enough to be able to persuade licensees they'll treat them all equally.

    I don't suppose the retail consumer experience is of much relevance here but having just paid the rapacious termination fees and finally escaped my phone contract, I can report that Softbank are a bunch of thieves.

    A quick way for Softbank to start generating a premium return on this premium purchase is to change ARM's IP licensing model - which up to now has been comparatively generous and very flexible - and to look at selling off non-core patents. There'd be a lot of Chinese interest in those.

  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,044
    edited July 2016

    ARM would be worth an absolute fortune to China and has done a lot of business there recently. I wonder if Softbank is a staging post. The Chinese have been trying to acquire a major semiconductor company for a number of years, but have always struggled to get past regulatory authority concerns. Tsinghua tried with Micron last year, for example, but were beaten back before even submitting a formal bid.

    There is a difference (as you will know): Micron are an IP and fabrication company: they make chips. ARM are a pure IP firm, who rely on other companies to fabricate their chips.

    A vast amount of the value is in the fabrication, not the basic chip IP. But the fabrication technology also loses value quicker as new processes come online.

    If I was Theresea May, I would be asking Softbank what they were going to being to ARM. What does the company gain from the takeover - especially as the doubling of jobs looks as though it was going to happen anyway. What are their long-term plans? I'd ask the ARM management the same thing.
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    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    edited July 2016
    https://twitter.com/ChrisMasonBBC/status/754730207752388608

    If he's treated other MPs like this, it's no wonder that they are desperate to replace him.
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    edited July 2016
    .
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419

    I don't follow the Bayrou thing. If Hollande is going down hard then the centre-right get tbrough to the second round. Who cares who leada the first round?

    That was also said about Jospin against an unpopular Chirac in 2002 (albeit not quite as unpopular as Hollande). It can't be taken for granted if the centre/centre-right is both too divided and also leaking against the far-right.

    With Juppe standing for the Republicans, the 1st round polls are roughly

    Juppe 36
    Le Pen 28
    Hollande 13
    Melenchon 12
    The rest: single figures.

    and the second round,

    Juppe 68
    Le Pen 32

    That's pretty clear-cut and even nine months out, it'd take a lot to shift that outcome.

    If it's Sarkozy, then the polls become

    Le Pen 28
    Sarkozy 23
    Hollande 14
    Melenchon 12
    Bayrou 11
    The rest single figures

    In a 2nd-round run-off, it's a good deal closer, at about 58-42 to Sarkozy. That's still relatively comfortable. The shocker is the Hollande-Le Pen score, of which we've had none since April, but they were both:

    Le Pen 53
    Hollande 47

    Now, a nine point lead for Sarkozy over Hollande in the first round is still relatively comfortable but it's not beyond the realms of possibility that that could change by April (though if it does, to Hollande's benefit, the socialist ought also to improve against Le Pen). Incumbents do usually get some swingback.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937

    ARM would be worth an absolute fortune to China and has done a lot of business there recently. I wonder if Softbank is a staging post. The Chinese have been trying to acquire a major semiconductor company for a number of years, but have always struggled to get past regulatory authority concerns. Tsinghua tried with Micron last year, for example, but were beaten back before even submitting a formal bid.

    There is a difference (as you will know): Micron are an IP and fabrication company: they make chips. ARM are a pure IP firm, who rely on other companies to fabricate their chips.

    A vast amount of the value is in the fabrication, not the basic chip IP. But the fabrication technology also loses value quicker as new processes come online.

    If I was Theresea May, I would be asking Softbank what they were going to being to ARM. What does the company gain from the takeover - especially as the doubling of jobs looks as though it was going to happen anyway. What are their long-term plans? I'd ask the ARM management the same thing.

    Yep, I spent a day at ARM last year and was told all about their plans to double the size of the campus in Cambridge. All the permissions were in place and the land was bought. As ARM is all about IP there is absolutely no reason for it to be in the UK and it would be even more valuable to the Chinese than the likes of Micron. If the government does not do as you say and does not get very strong legally enforceable reassurance then it will be plain negligence. If ARM does end up leaving the UK, the damage that could cause our technology knowledge base is immense.

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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907
    Morning. Thanks David for the succinct summary of the French race, for those of us who hadn't much thought of it yet in among the chaos elsewhere!

    Betfair market hasn't really got going either, I'll have a nibble on Juppé while he's still odds against.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/#/politics/event/27360404/market?marketId=1.117179983
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    ARM isn't the first Cambridge-based high tech company to be swallowed up by the Japanese, Brother acquired world-leading Domino Printing Sciences last year, and I feel sure it won't be the last.

    The basic problem is that with returns on Japanese bonds so low, companies are willing to acquire foreign currency earnings at implied returns of 3-4%. Western investors just can't compete with that.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    edited July 2016

    Juppe.

    The Front National just has too much baggage (at the moment) to win 50%+1 in the second round of a presidential election, and Le Pen lacks something that candidates like Hofer seem to have in Austria.

    Except that's not what the polls suggest. There's a reasonable chance that she'll win the first round and it's near certain that she'll make the final two. Her problem, as you rightly point out, is in gaining transfers, but she may not need all that many if there are mass abstentions in the second round, something which some polls - particularly Hollande-Le Pen head-to-heads - suggest could well happen.

    That said, I really don't see how she gets past Juppe.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Important news in tech:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

    Genuinely surprised by this.

    I thought this was the sort of thing our new PM wanted to stop? Or does this not matter as most people will never have heard of ARM?
    Allowing our pension funds to sell an asset for more than it's intrinsic worth, crystallize the gain, redeploy the capital into other opportunities and pocket the difference?

    Why would she want to stop that?
    Because some might see ARM as a critical business for the UK. We don't have many tech success stories on their scale. (*) Long-term it could harm the Cambridge phenomena, especially if tech and expertise is leached away from the UK.

    I don't know much about Softbank: I can only hope that they're independent enough to be able to persuade licensees they'll treat them all equally.

    (*) And it all happened by glorious accident, which Robin Saxby exploited fully.
    Are you proposing the UK taxpayer should compensate ARM shareholders? After all they are being asked to give up a significant capital gain in return for some notion of the public good
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    I have been away, anyone know how Antifrank is and how his partner is recovering?
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907

    Important news in tech:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

    Genuinely surprised by this.

    Interesting story, good news for the shareholders and a promise of sticking to the expansion plans with a load more skilled jobs.

    The corporate takeover market is going to be busy for the next couple of years, there's a lot of large companies with an awful lot of cash in the bank not earning them much money. Apple are said to have over £175bn (or was it $175bn), more than the annual GDP of a lot of nations!
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,419
    edited July 2016
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Important news in tech:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

    Genuinely surprised by this.

    I thought this was the sort of thing our new PM wanted to stop? Or does this not matter as most people will never have heard of ARM?
    Allowing our pension funds to sell an asset for more than it's intrinsic worth, crystallize the gain, redeploy the capital into other opportunities and pocket the difference?

    Why would she want to stop that?
    Because some might see ARM as a critical business for the UK. We don't have many tech success stories on their scale. (*) Long-term it could harm the Cambridge phenomena, especially if tech and expertise is leached away from the UK.

    I don't know much about Softbank: I can only hope that they're independent enough to be able to persuade licensees they'll treat them all equally.

    (*) And it all happened by glorious accident, which Robin Saxby exploited fully.
    Are you proposing the UK taxpayer should compensate ARM shareholders? After all they are being asked to give up a significant capital gain in return for some notion of the public good
    I'm quite sure you know that there are all sorts of restrictions placed on certain overseas sales (and domestic ones, for that matter), which might prevent an item reaching its open-market price. There is no principle of compensation in such circumstances; it is one of the rights of the state to regulate markets.

    That doesn't mean that such regulation is actually in the national interest, or that it's always done well - but they're different questions.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @paulwaugh: Hammond: Softbank £24bn takeover of ARM wd be largest ever Asian investment into UK + prove UK has lost none of its allure post-Brexit vote
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    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294

    https://twitter.com/ChrisMasonBBC/status/754730207752388608

    If he's treated other MPs like this, it's no wonder that they are desperate to replace him.

    The key is the irrational, even inhuman (let alone inhumane) devotion with which JC is regarded by his fan club. (There's a reason why I, one of only two Peebies to have served on an elected public body with him, call him by his initials.)

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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907

    ttps://twitter.com/ChrisMasonBBC/status/754730207752388608

    If he's treated other MPs like this, it's no wonder that they are desperate to replace him.

    There's surely going to be a split in Labour. The language being used is not that of a party that will reconcile any time soon.
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    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    Sandpit said:

    ttps://twitter.com/ChrisMasonBBC/status/754730207752388608

    If he's treated other MPs like this, it's no wonder that they are desperate to replace him.

    There's surely going to be a split in Labour. The language being used is not that of a party that will reconcile any time soon.
    I've little to no doubt that JC would sooner emulate the jailed Mandela's silent dignity than sit in Downing Street faced with "events, dear boy, events" he doesn't understand - I assume that Mrs M knows how to listen, at least. He doesn't.

  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Important news in tech:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

    Genuinely surprised by this.

    I thought this was the sort of thing our new PM wanted to stop? Or does this not matter as most people will never have heard of ARM?
    Allowing our pension funds to sell an asset for more than it's intrinsic worth, crystallize the gain, redeploy the capital into other opportunities and pocket the difference?

    Why would she want to stop that?
    Because some might see ARM as a critical business for the UK. We don't have many tech success stories on their scale. (*) Long-term it could harm the Cambridge phenomena, especially if tech and expertise is leached away from the UK.

    I don't know much about Softbank: I can only hope that they're independent enough to be able to persuade licensees they'll treat them all equally.

    (*) And it all happened by glorious accident, which Robin Saxby exploited fully.
    Are you proposing the UK taxpayer should compensate ARM shareholders? After all they are being asked to give up a significant capital gain in return for some notion of the public good
    I'm quite sure you know that there are all sorts of restrictions placed on certain overseas sales (and domestic ones, for that matter), which might prevent an item reaching its open-market price. There is no principle of compensation in such circumstances; it is one of the rights of the state to regulate markets.

    That doesn't mean that such regulation is actually in the national interest, or that it's always done well - but they're different questions.

    The worry for me is how easily transportable ARM is. Without strong and binding commitments to remain in the UK Softbank could easily, over time, move the company's heart elsewhere. Or just sell the company on. As I say downthread the Chinese would pay big time to get their hands on it. That means a potential loss not only of expertise, but also of relationships at a high level with any number of other technology companies of all size. This is all a part of our soft power. It has no tangible value, but is worth a huge amount to us.

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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    One thing that's struck me about Nice is the vanishingly short period/lack of Twitter outpouring/changing avatars et al.

    I can't tell if that's just a lack of novelty, genuine 'what's the point' or a hardening of attitudes. The news outlets can't be relied on much either given the desire to squash down troubling views.

    Post Baton Rouge and Dallas, we've got Cleveland RNC later today. It's been a crazy year so far - let's hope the latter breaks the pattern and there's no serious trouble.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,292
    PlatoSaid said:

    One thing that's struck me about Nice is the vanishingly short period/lack of Twitter outpouring/changing avatars et al.

    I can't tell if that's just a lack of novelty, genuine 'what's the point' or a hardening of attitudes. The news outlets can't be relied on much either given the desire to squash down troubling views.

    Post Baton Rouge and Dallas, we've got Cleveland RNC later today. It's been a crazy year so far - let's hope the latter breaks the pattern and there's no serious trouble.

    I would guess it is a mixture of your first two (particularly the fact that, sadly, it is France again), plus the news overload we are all suffering, and the way global media attention moved quickly on to Turkey.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    edited July 2016
    Interesting factoid: unless there is a coup today :-) Spain's current democracy has now lasted longer than Franco's dictatorship:
    https://twitter.com/_ignaciomolina/status/754811712092667904
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,044
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Important news in tech:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

    Genuinely surprised by this.

    I thought this was the sort of thing our new PM wanted to stop? Or does this not matter as most people will never have heard of ARM?
    Allowing our pension funds to sell an asset for more than it's intrinsic worth, crystallize the gain, redeploy the capital into other opportunities and pocket the difference?

    Why would she want to stop that?
    Because some might see ARM as a critical business for the UK. We don't have many tech success stories on their scale. (*) Long-term it could harm the Cambridge phenomena, especially if tech and expertise is leached away from the UK.

    I don't know much about Softbank: I can only hope that they're independent enough to be able to persuade licensees they'll treat them all equally.

    (*) And it all happened by glorious accident, which Robin Saxby exploited fully.
    Are you proposing the UK taxpayer should compensate ARM shareholders? After all they are being asked to give up a significant capital gain in return for some notion of the public good
    No, I am not proposing that. The government should look at what is good for the country, not the whole, and avoid blood-sucking financial parasites who make comments such as yours above.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Important news in tech:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

    Genuinely surprised by this.

    I thought this was the sort of thing our new PM wanted to stop? Or does this not matter as most people will never have heard of ARM?
    Allowing our pension funds to sell an asset for more than it's intrinsic worth, crystallize the gain, redeploy the capital into other opportunities and pocket the difference?

    Why would she want to stop that?
    Because some might see ARM as a critical business for the UK. We don't have many tech success stories on their scale. (*) Long-term it could harm the Cambridge phenomena, especially if tech and expertise is leached away from the UK.

    I don't know much about Softbank: I can only hope that they're independent enough to be able to persuade licensees they'll treat them all equally.

    (*) And it all happened by glorious accident, which Robin Saxby exploited fully.
    Are you proposing the UK taxpayer should compensate ARM shareholders? After all they are being asked to give up a significant capital gain in return for some notion of the public good
    No, I am not proposing that. The government should look at what is good for the country, not the whole, and avoid blood-sucking financial parasites who make comments such as yours above.
    Dear oh dear, back to 1970s Labour.
  • Options
    ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Important news in tech:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

    Genuinely surprised by this.

    I thought this was the sort of thing our new PM wanted to stop? Or does this not matter as most people will never have heard of ARM?
    Allowing our pension funds to sell an asset for more than it's intrinsic worth, crystallize the gain, redeploy the capital into other opportunities and pocket the difference?

    Why would she want to stop that?
    Because some might see ARM as a critical business for the UK. We don't have many tech success stories on their scale. (*) Long-term it could harm the Cambridge phenomena, especially if tech and expertise is leached away from the UK.

    I don't know much about Softbank: I can only hope that they're independent enough to be able to persuade licensees they'll treat them all equally.

    (*) And it all happened by glorious accident, which Robin Saxby exploited fully.
    Are you proposing the UK taxpayer should compensate ARM shareholders? After all they are being asked to give up a significant capital gain in return for some notion of the public good
    No, I am not proposing that. The government should look at what is good for the country, not the whole, and avoid blood-sucking financial parasites who make comments such as yours above.
    Doesn't look like the government is minded to stand in the way:

    https://twitter.com/PHammondMP/status/754924912855379968
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,044
    runnymede said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Important news in tech:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

    Genuinely surprised by this.

    I thought this was the sort of thing our new PM wanted to stop? Or does this not matter as most people will never have heard of ARM?
    Allowing our pension funds to sell an asset for more than it's intrinsic worth, crystallize the gain, redeploy the capital into other opportunities and pocket the difference?

    Why would she want to stop that?
    Because some might see ARM as a critical business for the UK. We don't have many tech success stories on their scale. (*) Long-term it could harm the Cambridge phenomena, especially if tech and expertise is leached away from the UK.

    I don't know much about Softbank: I can only hope that they're independent enough to be able to persuade licensees they'll treat them all equally.

    (*) And it all happened by glorious accident, which Robin Saxby exploited fully.
    Are you proposing the UK taxpayer should compensate ARM shareholders? After all they are being asked to give up a significant capital gain in return for some notion of the public good
    No, I am not proposing that. The government should look at what is good for the country, not the whole, and avoid blood-sucking financial parasites who make comments such as yours above.
    Dear oh dear, back to 1970s Labour.
    Not at all.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,044

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Important news in tech:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

    Genuinely surprised by this.

    I thought this was the sort of thing our new PM wanted to stop? Or does this not matter as most people will never have heard of ARM?
    Allowing our pension funds to sell an asset for more than it's intrinsic worth, crystallize the gain, redeploy the capital into other opportunities and pocket the difference?

    Why would she want to stop that?
    Because some might see ARM as a critical business for the UK. We don't have many tech success stories on their scale. (*) Long-term it could harm the Cambridge phenomena, especially if tech and expertise is leached away from the UK.

    I don't know much about Softbank: I can only hope that they're independent enough to be able to persuade licensees they'll treat them all equally.

    (*) And it all happened by glorious accident, which Robin Saxby exploited fully.
    Are you proposing the UK taxpayer should compensate ARM shareholders? After all they are being asked to give up a significant capital gain in return for some notion of the public good
    No, I am not proposing that. The government should look at what is good for the country, not the whole, and avoid blood-sucking financial parasites who make comments such as yours above.
    Doesn't look like the government is minded to stand in the way:

    https://twitter.com/PHammondMP/status/754924912855379968
    I can only hope they've got some f'ing big assurances from Softbank.

    (note: I'm an ARM shareholder, but neither myself or Mrs J work for them).
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907

    Sandpit said:

    ttps://twitter.com/ChrisMasonBBC/status/754730207752388608

    If he's treated other MPs like this, it's no wonder that they are desperate to replace him.

    There's surely going to be a split in Labour. The language being used is not that of a party that will reconcile any time soon.
    I've little to no doubt that JC would sooner emulate the jailed Mandela's silent dignity than sit in Downing Street faced with "events, dear boy, events" he doesn't understand - I assume that Mrs M knows how to listen, at least. He doesn't.
    Quite, and Mrs M will be in Downing St for quite a while as a result. There must be a large number of Labour politicians who actually want to be in government, which is never going to happen under Corbyn and his fellow travellers. Providing an opposition worthy of the name would be a good start.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,296
    There have been four attacks in France recently - one was unsuccessful (the gunman on the train who was beaten up by those Americans). I suggest the French have every reason to assume that their government and security services are simply not doing their jobs properly. That is the real danger if Le Pen decides to put Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite up against Securite. It could easily prove a winner.

    Other than that slight criticism, great post.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,296

    Interesting factoid: unless there is a coup today :-) Spain's current democracy has now lasted longer than Franco's dictatorship:
    https://twitter.com/_ignaciomolina/status/754811712092667904

    I take it that's dated from the coup of 1981?
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Important news in tech:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

    Genuinely surprised by this.

    I thought this was the sort of thing our new PM wanted to stop? Or does this not matter as most people will never have heard of ARM?
    Allowing our pension funds to sell an asset for more than it's intrinsic worth, crystallize the gain, redeploy the capital into other opportunities and pocket the difference?

    Why would she want to stop that?
    Because some might see ARM as a critical business for the UK. We don't have many tech success stories on their scale. (*) Long-term it could harm the Cambridge phenomena, especially if tech and expertise is leached away from the UK.

    I don't know much about Softbank: I can only hope that they're independent enough to be able to persuade licensees they'll treat them all equally.

    (*) And it all happened by glorious accident, which Robin Saxby exploited fully.
    Are you proposing the UK taxpayer should compensate ARM shareholders? After all they are being asked to give up a significant capital gain in return for some notion of the public good
    No, I am not proposing that. The government should look at what is good for the country, not the whole, and avoid blood-sucking financial parasites who make comments such as yours above.
    Doesn't look like the government is minded to stand in the way:

    https://twitter.com/PHammondMP/status/754924912855379968

    Hopefully binding reassurances have been asked for and given. If they have, there's no problem. If they haven't, it's negligence pure and simple.

  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    ydoethur said:

    Interesting factoid: unless there is a coup today :-) Spain's current democracy has now lasted longer than Franco's dictatorship:
    https://twitter.com/_ignaciomolina/status/754811712092667904

    I take it that's dated from the coup of 1981?

    Franco - 1936 to 1976

    Democracy - 1976 to 2016 + one day

    There's a bit of poetic licence, but you get the point!

  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Just seen Juncker's announcement that he will not permit the UK to have trade negoatiations with any third country while they are a member of the EU (as it is the exclusive responsibility of the Commisson).

    Words fail me sometimes, they really do.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,987

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Important news in tech:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

    Genuinely surprised by this.

    I thought this was the sort of thing our new PM wanted to stop? Or does this not matter as most people will never have heard of ARM?
    Allowing our pension funds to sell an asset for more than it's intrinsic worth, crystallize the gain, redeploy the capital into other opportunities and pocket the difference?

    Why would she want to stop that?
    Because some might see ARM as a critical business for the UK. We don't have many tech success stories on their scale. (*) Long-term it could harm the Cambridge phenomena, especially if tech and expertise is leached away from the UK.

    I don't know much about Softbank: I can only hope that they're independent enough to be able to persuade licensees they'll treat them all equally.

    (*) And it all happened by glorious accident, which Robin Saxby exploited fully.
    Are you proposing the UK taxpayer should compensate ARM shareholders? After all they are being asked to give up a significant capital gain in return for some notion of the public good
    No, I am not proposing that. The government should look at what is good for the country, not the whole, and avoid blood-sucking financial parasites who make comments such as yours above.
    Doesn't look like the government is minded to stand in the way:

    https://twitter.com/PHammondMP/status/754924912855379968

    Hopefully binding reassurances have been asked for and given. If they have, there's no problem. If they haven't, it's negligence pure and simple.

    All the £24bn value of ARM is sat in the heads of the people working in Cambridge.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,292
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    ttps://twitter.com/ChrisMasonBBC/status/754730207752388608

    If he's treated other MPs like this, it's no wonder that they are desperate to replace him.

    There's surely going to be a split in Labour. The language being used is not that of a party that will reconcile any time soon.
    I've little to no doubt that JC would sooner emulate the jailed Mandela's silent dignity than sit in Downing Street faced with "events, dear boy, events" he doesn't understand - I assume that Mrs M knows how to listen, at least. He doesn't.
    Quite, and Mrs M will be in Downing St for quite a while as a result. There must be a large number of Labour politicians who actually want to be in government, which is never going to happen under Corbyn and his fellow travellers. Providing an opposition worthy of the name would be a good start.
    Yes but is 'wanting to be in government' enough, without any sort of coherent programme (not even a reasoned critique of Corbyn's offering let alone an alternative centre-left analysis to take on the Tories) or charismatic alternative leader?

    A lot of people are fed up with the pre-Corbyn era politics of (or which they see as) lots of egos all wanting for the top jobs but standing on similar policies. Cooper and Burnham bombed because they had nothing to say. Eagle has nothing to say, Smith is trying but it's early days.

    The bottom line is that the Labour rebels need more than simply pointing to Corbyn's unelectability whilst taking for granted: a) that they stand for something, when (apart from not being Tories) they haven't worked out what, b) that they have a suitable alternative leader, when they don't, and c) that their managerial and leadership skills make them suitable people to run the country, when they have been demonstrating their own incompetence at every turn.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    ydoethur said:

    There have been four attacks in France recently - one was unsuccessful (the gunman on the train who was beaten up by those Americans). I suggest the French have every reason to assume that their government and security services are simply not doing their jobs properly. That is the real danger if Le Pen decides to put Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite up against Securite. It could easily prove a winner.

    Other than that slight criticism, great post.

    And the police chief/his girlfriend who were beheaded on video and uploaded to Facebook.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937
    If Erdogan had planned this coup in Turkey it could not have worked out better for him. Thousands of unhelpful judges fired and ...
    https://twitter.com/conflicts/status/754918478033854464
  • Options
    YellowSubmarineYellowSubmarine Posts: 2,740
    Charles said:

    Just seen Juncker's announcement that he will not permit the UK to have trade negoatiations with any third country while they are a member of the EU (as it is the exclusive responsibility of the Commisson).

    Words fail me sometimes, they really do.

    Seems like a good opening negotiating position from his point of view. Get used it.
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536

    Charles said:

    Just seen Juncker's announcement that he will not permit the UK to have trade negoatiations with any third country while they are a member of the EU (as it is the exclusive responsibility of the Commisson).

    Words fail me sometimes, they really do.

    Seems like a good opening negotiating position from his point of view. Get used it.
    Rubbish. It's pure bluster
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,044
    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Important news in tech:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

    Genuinely surprised by this.

    I thought this was the sort of thing our new PM wanted to stop? Or does this not matter as most people will never have heard of ARM?
    Allowing our pension funds to sell an asset for more than it's intrinsic worth, crystallize the gain, redeploy the capital into other opportunities and pocket the difference?

    Why would she want to stop that?
    Because some might see ARM as a critical business for the UK. We don't have many tech success stories on their scale. (*) Long-term it could harm the Cambridge phenomena, especially if tech and expertise is leached away from the UK.

    I don't know much about Softbank: I can only hope that they're independent enough to be able to persuade licensees they'll treat them all equally.

    (*) And it all happened by glorious accident, which Robin Saxby exploited fully.
    Are you proposing the UK taxpayer should compensate ARM shareholders? After all they are being asked to give up a significant capital gain in return for some notion of the public good
    No, I am not proposing that. The government should look at what is good for the country, not the whole, and avoid blood-sucking financial parasites who make comments such as yours above.
    Doesn't look like the government is minded to stand in the way:

    https://twitter.com/PHammondMP/status/754924912855379968

    Hopefully binding reassurances have been asked for and given. If they have, there's no problem. If they haven't, it's negligence pure and simple.

    All the £24bn value of ARM is sat in the heads of the people working in Cambridge.
    That's not quite true. Because they licence their IP for others to alter, there are plenty of people around the world with deep-down knowledge of ARM's IP, from Apple to Qualcomm.
  • Options
    YellowSubmarineYellowSubmarine Posts: 2,740
    edited July 2016
    I'm sure the Leave heartlands will be rejoicing the Japanese are buying into one of our tech firms incentives by a sudden devaluation. Forza !
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Charles said:

    Just seen Juncker's announcement that he will not permit the UK to have trade negoatiations with any third country while they are a member of the EU (as it is the exclusive responsibility of the Commisson).

    Words fail me sometimes, they really do.

    He really is the most enormous arse.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,292
    edited July 2016

    If Erdogan had planned this coup in Turkey it could not have worked out better for him. Thousands of unhelpful judges fired and ...
    https://twitter.com/conflicts/status/754918478033854464

    I heard a commentator on R4 yesterday suggest that the truth may be that Erdogan was planning some sort of major crackdown already (hence his having a list of thousands of local judges to sack conveniently ready), and the coup arose because the anti-Erdogan forces caught wind of it and tried to head it off by acting first. Without knowing much about Turkey, this seems more credible than his having arranged the coup himself and then arrested the mugs he persuaded to do it?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907
    Charles said:

    Just seen Juncker's announcement that he will not permit the UK to have trade negoatiations with any third country while they are a member of the EU (as it is the exclusive responsibility of the Commisson).

    Words fail me sometimes, they really do.

    Ha ha. Good luck to him with enforcing that. We'll talk to whoever we damn please, thank you very much Mr Drunker
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,044
    IanB2 said:

    If Erdogan had planned this coup in Turkey it could not have worked out better for him. Thousands of unhelpful judges fired and ...
    https://twitter.com/conflicts/status/754918478033854464

    I heard a commentator on R4 yesterday suggest that the truth may be that Erdogan was planning some sort of major crackdown already (hence his having a list of thousands of judges conveniently ready to go), and the coup arose because the anti-Erdogan forces caught wind of it and tried to head it off by acting first. Without knowing much about Turkey, this seems more credible than his having arranged the coup himself and then arrested the mugs he persuaded to do it?
    I think that's more likely to be right. It would explain why the coup was so ill-planned and why it got as far as it did - reports from family in Ankara is that there's been lots of damage, and more than is being reported in the news.

    Also: the people he's rounding up are very unlikely all to have been in on the coup. It's a sweeping clean of the board.
  • Options
    YellowSubmarineYellowSubmarine Posts: 2,740
    runnymede said:
    Yes. But it's interesting to see a mainstream figure think it's worth adopting this positioning.
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,721
    runnymede said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Important news in tech:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

    Genuinely surprised by this.

    I thought this was the sort of thing our new PM wanted to stop? Or does this not matter as most people will never have heard of ARM?
    Allowing our pension funds to sell an asset for more than it's intrinsic worth, crystallize the gain, redeploy the capital into other opportunities and pocket the difference?

    Why would she want to stop that?
    Because some might see ARM as a critical business for the UK. We don't have many tech success stories on their scale. (*) Long-term it could harm the Cambridge phenomena, especially if tech and expertise is leached away from the UK.

    I don't know much about Softbank: I can only hope that they're independent enough to be able to persuade licensees they'll treat them all equally.

    (*) And it all happened by glorious accident, which Robin Saxby exploited fully.
    Are you proposing the UK taxpayer should compensate ARM shareholders? After all they are being asked to give up a significant capital gain in return for some notion of the public good
    No, I am not proposing that. The government should look at what is good for the country, not the whole, and avoid blood-sucking financial parasites who make comments such as yours above.
    Dear oh dear, back to 1970s Labour.
    How do you work that out? Did you read the previous comments?
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Sandpit said:

    Charles said:

    Just seen Juncker's announcement that he will not permit the UK to have trade negoatiations with any third country while they are a member of the EU (as it is the exclusive responsibility of the Commisson).

    Words fail me sometimes, they really do.

    Ha ha. Good luck to him with enforcing that. We'll talk to whoever we damn please, thank you very much Mr Drunker
    It reminded me of an overbearing dad instructing his teenage kids not to talk to X - yeah right.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,937

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Important news in tech:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

    Genuinely surprised by this.

    I thought this was the sort of thing our new PM wanted to stop? Or does this not matter as most people will never have heard of ARM?
    Allowing our pension funds to sell an asset for more than it's intrinsic worth, crystallize the gain, redeploy the capital into other opportunities and pocket the difference?

    Why would she want to stop that?
    Because some might see ARM as a critical business for the UK. We don't have many tech success stories on their scale. (*) Long-term it could harm the Cambridge phenomena, especially if tech and expertise is leached away from the UK.

    I don't know much about Softbank: I can only hope that they're independent enough to be able to persuade licensees they'll treat them all equally.

    (*) And it all happened by glorious accident, which Robin Saxby exploited fully.
    Are you proposing the UK taxpayer should compensate ARM shareholders? After all they are being asked to give up a significant capital gain in return for some notion of the public good
    No, I am not proposing that. The government should look at what is good for the country, not the whole, and avoid blood-sucking financial parasites who make comments such as yours above.
    Doesn't look like the government is minded to stand in the way:

    https://twitter.com/PHammondMP/status/754924912855379968

    Hopefully binding reassurances have been asked for and given. If they have, there's no problem. If they haven't, it's negligence pure and simple.

    All the £24bn value of ARM is sat in the heads of the people working in Cambridge.
    That's not quite true. Because they licence their IP for others to alter, there are plenty of people around the world with deep-down knowledge of ARM's IP, from Apple to Qualcomm.

    Yep. And just because people live in or around Cambridge now does not mean they always will.

  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,296
    PlatoSaid said:

    ydoethur said:

    There have been four attacks in France recently - one was unsuccessful (the gunman on the train who was beaten up by those Americans). I suggest the French have every reason to assume that their government and security services are simply not doing their jobs properly. That is the real danger if Le Pen decides to put Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite up against Securite. It could easily prove a winner.

    Other than that slight criticism, great post.

    And the police chief/his girlfriend who were beheaded on video and uploaded to Facebook.
    I hadn't heard about that one! When was it?
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,930
    Charles said:

    Just seen Juncker's announcement that he will not permit the UK to have trade negoatiations with any third country while they are a member of the EU (as it is the exclusive responsibility of the Commisson).

    Words fail me sometimes, they really do.

    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: Hammond: Softbank £24bn takeover of ARM wd be largest ever Asian investment into UK + prove UK has lost none of its allure post-Brexit vote

    Brexit going well I see.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,292
    edited July 2016
    ydoethur said:

    There have been four attacks in France recently - one was unsuccessful (the gunman on the train who was beaten up by those Americans). I suggest the French have every reason to assume that their government and security services are simply not doing their jobs properly. That is the real danger if Le Pen decides to put Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite up against Securite. It could easily prove a winner.

    Other than that slight criticism, great post.

    There was an interesting piece yesterday again on R4 about how our secret services knew that two of what turned out to be the 7/7 bombers had a base in Leeds/Bradford but didn't inform West Yorkshire Police. Following the 7/7 bombing there was an overhaul of intelligence sharing and now the various agencies including the police are apparently more routinely involved in discussions about potential suspects, and able to bring any local knowledge they might have to the table. This was contrasted with the position in France where the same work was said to be spread between six different secret service agencies which do not have the structures or culture in place to co-operate in the same way. I don't know how reasonable a critique this might be (as against just 'Brits know about these things').
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907
    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    ttps://twitter.com/ChrisMasonBBC/status/754730207752388608

    If he's treated other MPs like this, it's no wonder that they are desperate to replace him.

    There's surely going to be a split in Labour. The language being used is not that of a party that will reconcile any time soon.
    I've little to no doubt that JC would sooner emulate the jailed Mandela's silent dignity than sit in Downing Street faced with "events, dear boy, events" he doesn't understand - I assume that Mrs M knows how to listen, at least. He doesn't.
    Quite, and Mrs M will be in Downing St for quite a while as a result. There must be a large number of Labour politicians who actually want to be in government, which is never going to happen under Corbyn and his fellow travellers. Providing an opposition worthy of the name would be a good start.
    Yes but is 'wanting to be in government' enough, without any sort of coherent programme (not even a reasoned critique of Corbyn's offering let alone an alternative centre-left analysis to take on the Tories) or charismatic alternative leader?

    A lot of people are fed up with the pre-Corbyn era politics of (or which they see as) lots of egos all wanting for the top jobs but standing on similar policies. Cooper and Burnham bombed because they had nothing to say. Eagle has nothing to say, Smith is trying but it's early days.

    The bottom line is that the Labour rebels need more than simply pointing to Corbyn's unelectability whilst taking for granted: a) that they stand for something, when (apart from not being Tories) they haven't worked out what, b) that they have a suitable alternative leader, when they don't, and c) that their managerial and leadership skills make them suitable people to run the country, when they have been demonstrating their own incompetence at every turn.
    Agree with every word of that.

    The modern Labour Party is basically a coalition of three groups:
    1. Corbyn and friends
    2. Metropolitan middle-class lefties
    3. White working classes.

    Most of the members are in group 1, most of the MPs in group 2 and most of the voters in group 3.

    An electable Labour Party need to focus on policies to help group 3, while also attracting a couple of million who voted for David Cameron. But groups 1 and 2 think they can change the world with hashtags and online petitions. Until group 2 can get their act together and actually be for a set of policies rather than just against group 1, then Corbyn and friends are going to be in charge.
  • Options
    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    For those who rather like the cut of May's jib - this from Janet Daley is an interesting analysis of it vs Cameroonism.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2016/07/16/blue-collar-conservatism-is-back--and-it-takes-a-very-clever-wom/

    "The blue-collar Conservatism that had been such an important component of the Thatcherite constituency had been replaced by a new condescension which found fresh ways of deriding the old enemies: the inarticulate yobs, the vulgar chavs, the provincial elderly with their quaint ideas about national pride, and the ambitious suburbanites trying to get on in life.

    At this point, I must declare my own predilections. I am a metropolitan liberal. Those London dinner party prejudices are largely mine, too. In fact, I share pretty much all the social attitudes and values of the modernisers I have so brutally depicted. I am a member of the ethnic minority that Stalin notoriously described as “rootless cosmopolitans”. So I have to struggle with my own inclination to despise those who, with my usual preconceptions, would seem backward or ignorant."

  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,296
    Sandpit said:

    Charles said:

    Just seen Juncker's announcement that he will not permit the UK to have trade negoatiations with any third country while they are a member of the EU (as it is the exclusive responsibility of the Commisson).

    Words fail me sometimes, they really do.

    Ha ha. Good luck to him with enforcing that. We'll talk to whoever we damn please, thank you very much Mr Drunker
    He is in rather a difficult position. If he allows us to negotiate before leaving the EU, he looks weak and green lights other countries to do unilateral trade deals. If he tries to stop us and succeeds, he fuels massive resentment against the EU here and possibly looks petty and domineering to ongoing members, who may start to worry about their own sovereignty. If as seems likely, Fox and Johnson advise him to indulge in a sex act in another place and go ahead, he can stamp and scream and try to play hard in our exit negotiations but there are fairly strict limits to what he can do, so he will look weak and irrelevant.

    Any market on him leaving office in the next three months so somebody sane, intelligent and sober can try and calm things down? There are rumours the real boss of the EU (Merkel) is fed up with him so any market looks value.
  • Options
    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461

    Juppe.

    The Front National just has too much baggage (at the moment) to win 50%+1 in the second round of a presidential election, and Le Pen lacks something that candidates like Hofer seem to have in Austria.

    Except that's not what the polls suggest. There's a reasonable chance that she'll win the first round and it's near certain that she'll make the final two. Her problem, as you rightly point out, is in gaining transfers, but she may not need all that many if there are mass abstentions in the second round, something which some polls - particularly Hollande-Le Pen head-to-heads - suggest could well happen.

    That said, I really don't see how she gets past Juppe.
    thanks for the article david. seems like a lot rests on the juppe/sarkozy call. who and how exactly is that choice made? If i'm reading it correctly the general public vote on it in november?
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Pulpstar said:

    Brexit going well I see.

    If you read the thread you will see that a lot of people seem quite upset by this.

    But this is worth noting

    @MarkKleinmanSky: Notable that ARM take-out price is 41% premium to all-time high - takeovers of SAB Miller, BG, Cadbury much lower premium or even discount.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Junker is a fool. How does he propose to enforce this decision? The Commission are absolutely shit scared that we will make Brexit a huge success and show just how unnecessary the EU is. Tusk said the same before that we should not be allowed to profit from Brexit or something along those lines.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,296
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    There have been four attacks in France recently - one was unsuccessful (the gunman on the train who was beaten up by those Americans). I suggest the French have every reason to assume that their government and security services are simply not doing their jobs properly. That is the real danger if Le Pen decides to put Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite up against Securite. It could easily prove a winner.

    Other than that slight criticism, great post.

    There was an interesting piece yesterday again on R4 about how our secret services knew that two of what turned out to be the 7/7 bombers had a base in Leeds/Bradford but didn't inform West Yorkshire Police. Following the 7/7 bombing there was an overhaul of intelligence sharing and now the various agencies including the police are apparently more routinely involved in discussions about potential suspects, and able to bring any local knowledge they might have to the table. This was contrasted with the position in France where the same work was said to be spread between six different secret service agencies which do not have the structures or culture in place to co-operate in the same way. I don't know how reasonable a critique this might be (as against just 'Brits know about these things').
    That is interesting and it seems plausible. Simple mathematics reveals that our security services have recently been performing better than their French counterparts, although they appear to be less successful in Northern Ireland. I only hope they don't get complacent.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,292
    edited July 2016
    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    ttps://twitter.com/ChrisMasonBBC/status/754730207752388608

    If he's treated other MPs like this, it's no wonder that they are desperate to replace him.

    n.

    Quite, and Mrs M will be in Downing St for quite a while as a result. There must be a large number of Labour politicians who actually want to be in government, which is never going to happen under Corbyn and his fellow travellers. Providing an opposition worthy of the name would be a good start.
    Yes but is 'wanting to be in government' enough, without any sort of coherent programme (not even a reasoned critique of Corbyn's offering let alone an alternative centre-left analysis to take on the Tories) or charismatic alternative leader?

    A lot of people are fed up with the pre-Corbyn era politics of (or which they see as) lots of egos all wanting for the top jobs but standing on similar policies. Cooper and Burnham bombed because they had nothing to say. Eagle has nothing to say, Smith is trying but it's early days.

    The bottom line is that the Labour rebels need more than simply pointing to Corbyn's unelectability whilst taking for granted: a) that they stand for something, when (apart from not being Tories) they haven't worked out what, b) that they have a suitable alternative leader, when they don't, and c) that their managerial and leadership skills make them suitable people to run the country, when they have been demonstrating their own incompetence at every turn.
    Agree with every word of that.

    The modern Labour Party is basically a coalition of three groups:
    1. Corbyn and friends
    2. Metropolitan middle-class lefties
    3. White working classes.

    Most of the members are in group 1, most of the MPs in group 2 and most of the voters in group 3.

    An electable Labour Party need to focus on policies to help group 3, while also attracting a couple of million who voted for David Cameron. But groups 1 and 2 think they can change the world with hashtags and online petitions. Until group 2 can get their act together and actually be for a set of policies rather than just against group 1, then Corbyn and friends are going to be in charge.
    On Sunday Politics (London) yesterday a Haringey councillor was interviewed and asked what was wrong with his party, and he said "the leader is divorced from the MPs, the MPs are divorced from the members, and our members are divorced from the public". Nothing we don't know already, but brutally put from one of their own!

    /edit as a comment on your post, don't forget also the mainly Muslim ethnic minorities, a big labour constituency, with different priorities from its traditional base.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    ydoethur said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    ydoethur said:

    There have been four attacks in France recently - one was unsuccessful (the gunman on the train who was beaten up by those Americans). I suggest the French have every reason to assume that their government and security services are simply not doing their jobs properly. That is the real danger if Le Pen decides to put Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite up against Securite. It could easily prove a winner.

    Other than that slight criticism, great post.

    And the police chief/his girlfriend who were beheaded on video and uploaded to Facebook.
    I hadn't heard about that one! When was it?
    17th June http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3646308/Husband-wife-police-officers-killed-French-ISIS-fanatic-revenge-earlier-run-New-theory-murders-emerges-killer-said-came-house-came-his.html
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,402
    Charles said:

    Just seen Juncker's announcement that he will not permit the UK to have trade negoatiations with any third country while they are a member of the EU (as it is the exclusive responsibility of the Commisson).

    Words fail me sometimes, they really do.

    If I were an EU leader I'd be arranging to throw Juncker out of a very high open window.

    If the EU does start to unravel his intransigence and arrogance will have played no small part in its downfall.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Just seen Juncker's announcement that he will not permit the UK to have trade negoatiations with any third country while they are a member of the EU (as it is the exclusive responsibility of the Commisson).

    Words fail me sometimes, they really do.

    Scott_P said:

    @paulwaugh: Hammond: Softbank £24bn takeover of ARM wd be largest ever Asian investment into UK + prove UK has lost none of its allure post-Brexit vote

    Brexit going well I see.
    Very well, SoftBank are decent owners. Son is no fool. He doesn't make rash decisions, this will have been planned so I doubt whether Brexit had very much to do with it other than forcing them to moce before Sterling strengthens.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,323
    I see it's left to John Humphries to fulfil the role of Her Majesty's Opposition.
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    HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    MaxPB said:

    Junker is a fool. How does he propose to enforce this decision? The Commission are absolutely shit scared that we will make Brexit a huge success and show just how unnecessary the EU is. Tusk said the same before that we should not be allowed to profit from Brexit or something along those lines.

    If we go around the commission he has no power, simple as that. He is trying to asser his authority.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @politicshome: Jeremy Corbyn says Theresa May's 'One Nation' mission statement "wdn’t have happened" without him as Labour leader https://t.co/nuYCLQdjyQ
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    HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    Not happy with the ARM news, but we do have a good history of Japanese firms keeping work in the UK.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,296
    MaxPB said:

    Junker is a fool. How does he propose to enforce this decision? The Commission are absolutely shit scared that we will make Brexit a huge success and show just how unnecessary the EU is. Tusk said the same before that we should not be allowed to profit from Brexit or something along those lines.

    Well, we need or at the very least want to negotiate with them. So that does give them some leverage.

    But looking at the TTIP (which gives the Americans the small matter of everything they want and gives us very little In return) the EU's negotiators really are pretty hopeless, and Juncker couldn't negotiate his way past a three year old with a water pistol. So their threat to play awkward isn't terribly convincing.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,296
    PlatoSaid said:

    ydoethur said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    ydoethur said:

    There have been four attacks in France recently - one was unsuccessful (the gunman on the train who was beaten up by those Americans). I suggest the French have every reason to assume that their government and security services are simply not doing their jobs properly. That is the real danger if Le Pen decides to put Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite up against Securite. It could easily prove a winner.

    Other than that slight criticism, great post.

    And the police chief/his girlfriend who were beheaded on video and uploaded to Facebook.
    I hadn't heard about that one! When was it?
    17th June http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3646308/Husband-wife-police-officers-killed-French-ISIS-fanatic-revenge-earlier-run-New-theory-murders-emerges-killer-said-came-house-came-his.html
    Good grief.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,292
    edited July 2016
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    There have been four attacks in France recently - one was unsuccessful (the gunman on the train who was beaten up by those Americans). I suggest the French have every reason to assume that their government and security services are simply not doing their jobs properly. That is the real danger if Le Pen decides to put Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite up against Securite. It could easily prove a winner.

    Other than that slight criticism, great post.

    There was an interesting piece yesterday again on R4 about how our secret services knew that two of what turned out to be the 7/7 bombers had a base in Leeds/Bradford but didn't inform West Yorkshire Police. Following the 7/7 bombing there was an overhaul of intelligence sharing and now the various agencies including the police are apparently more routinely involved in discussions about potential suspects, and able to bring any local knowledge they might have to the table. This was contrasted with the position in France where the same work was said to be spread between six different secret service agencies which do not have the structures or culture in place to co-operate in the same way. I don't know how reasonable a critique this might be (as against just 'Brits know about these things').
    That is interesting and it seems plausible. Simple mathematics reveals that our security services have recently been performing better than their French counterparts, although they appear to be less successful in Northern Ireland. I only hope they don't get complacent.
    It is of course easier to get to France and to get weapons in than to the UK. But I also think we benefit from having less dramatic segregation (geographically and socially) of our Muslim communities; our relatively higher levels of integration must make it easier to get worthwhile intelligence on what potential plots might be brewing. In France the impression seems to be that its heavily segregated Muslim communities are a foreign land to the state?
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited July 2016
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    There have been four attacks in France recently - one was unsuccessful (the gunman on the train who was beaten up by those Americans). I suggest the French have every reason to assume that their government and security services are simply not doing their jobs properly. That is the real danger if Le Pen decides to put Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite up against Securite. It could easily prove a winner.

    Other than that slight criticism, great post.

    There was an interesting piece yesterday again on R4 about how our secret services knew that two of what turned out to be the 7/7 bombers had a base in Leeds/Bradford but didn't inform West Yorkshire Police. Following the 7/7 bombing there was an overhaul of intelligence sharing and now the various agencies including the police are apparently more routinely involved in discussions about potential suspects, and able to bring any local knowledge they might have to the table. This was contrasted with the position in France where the same work was said to be spread between six different secret service agencies which do not have the structures or culture in place to co-operate in the same way. I don't know how reasonable a critique this might be (as against just 'Brits know about these things').
    That is interesting and it seems plausible. Simple mathematics reveals that our security services have recently been performing better than their French counterparts, although they appear to be less successful in Northern Ireland. I only hope they don't get complacent.
    Simple mathematics says nothing of the sort. For all we know the French secret devices have quietly foiled a hundred attacks letting only a handful through whilst he British secret service have secretly foiled none. We do not know the underlying population of 'events' try are working against.

    That's he thing about the secret service - their success are mostly secret.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    tlg86 said:

    Important news in tech:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36822272

    Genuinely surprised by this.

    I thought this was the sort of thing our new PM wanted to stop? Or does this not matter as most people will never have heard of ARM?
    Allowing our pension funds to sell an asset for more than it's intrinsic worth, crystallize the gain, redeploy the capital into other opportunities and pocket the difference?

    Why would she want to stop that?
    Because some might see ARM as a critical business for the UK. We don't have many tech success stories on their scale. (*) Long-term it could harm the Cambridge phenomena, especially if tech and expertise is leached away from the UK.

    I don't know much about Softbank: I can only hope that they're independent enough to be able to persuade licensees they'll treat them all equally.

    (*) And it all happened by glorious accident, which Robin Saxby exploited fully.
    Are you proposing the UK taxpayer should compensate ARM shareholders? After all they are being asked to give up a significant capital gain in return for some notion of the public good
    No, I am not proposing that. The government should look at what is good for the country, not the whole, and avoid blood-sucking financial parasites who make comments such as yours above.
    That sort of comment's unlike you JJ.

    I'm simply saying that there are clearly externalities involved in the situation. The government may decide that it is important than ARM is kept in the UK because of those externalities. If so, it is restricting the rights of private individuals to dispose of their property as they see fit - the value of the externalities should be shared rather than expropriated.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,007
    The latest French poll - quoted last night - had Hollande in fifth place if Sarkozy was the LR candidate, and four if Juppe was.

    Personally, I don't see Sarkozy as the LR candidate - indeed, I'd make it a less than 20% chance. If the polls continue to look as they do now, he'll step back become Juppe's Prime Minister.

    The other question is will Macron be the PS candidate?. I'd reckon that is a more than 50% chance.

    All in Juppe remains the value play. I think he's at least a 60% chance to be the next French President, and maybe more.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Just seen Juncker's announcement that he will not permit the UK to have trade negoatiations with any third country while they are a member of the EU (as it is the exclusive responsibility of the Commisson).

    Words fail me sometimes, they really do.

    Seems like a good opening negotiating position from his point of view. Get used it.
    Not really. It will be ignored and he will lose credibility.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,988
    Good morning, everyone.

    Also a bit surprised by the ARM sale, although as I'm neither in finance nor tech it's not something I know much about.

    On-topic: still hard for me to see le Pen winning (also, is it Le Pen, or le Pen?). But she has a better chance than Corbyn does of becoming PM.
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    HaroldOHaroldO Posts: 1,185
    Scott_P said:

    @politicshome: Jeremy Corbyn says Theresa May's 'One Nation' mission statement "wdn’t have happened" without him as Labour leader https://t.co/nuYCLQdjyQ

    I was at the rugby a few weeks ago, the tries my side scored were all down to me.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,007
    Charles said:

    Just seen Juncker's announcement that he will not permit the UK to have trade negoatiations with any third country while they are a member of the EU (as it is the exclusive responsibility of the Commisson).

    Words fail me sometimes, they really do.

    It's a stupid thing to say. The UK can have trade negotiations with anyone they like. What they cannot do - and remain a part of the EU - is to enter into an active trade agreement.

    I think Juncker is desperately trying to remain relevant as the Germans, Spanish, and co manoeuvre to have him removed.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,907
    MaxPB said:

    Junker is a fool. How does he propose to enforce this decision? The Commission are absolutely shit scared that we will make Brexit a huge success and show just how unnecessary the EU is. Tusk said the same before that we should not be allowed to profit from Brexit or something along those lines.

    That just about sums it up, they're very worried indeed that Brexit might be anything other than a complete disaster for the UK.

    Meanwhile, our new PM has appointed a SoS for Trade, an SoS for Business, an SoS for Brexit and fitted out a long haul aircraft for their use.
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