The public may not care what the PLP thinks, but the public don't tend to have confidence in leaders who cannot command the confidence of their parliamentary parties. See Ed Miliband (who MPs never wanted) Gordon Brown (his MPs tried to stage a coup against him), IDS (his MPs successfully got him to resign) and so on.
Of all the many complaints I heard from people I heard about Brown and Miliband, I can't say "their MPs don't like them" was ever one of the more frequent ones.
If anything, the comparison of Miliband and Cameron in the lead-up to 2015 shows just how little MPs' "loyalty to the leader" matters to the public -- Tory MPs had been MUCH more (vocally) critical of Cameron in the run-up to the election, than Lab MPs had been of Miliband, but the public didn't care.
Obviously, your average person will not say 'I don't like them because their MPs don't.' But it's a sign. If you cannot command the confidence of your MPs, then you are unlikely to command the confidence of the public.
I don't recall Tory MPs being more critical of Cameron than Labour ones were of Miliband, I have to say. I never thought of the Tories as a party who had no faith whatsoever in Cameron. Whereas for years Labour MPs had had huge doubts about Ed Miliband.
Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.
And which Labour politician do they say would be better?
Any of them at thus stage. You can't go into a GE, let alone form a govt with your entire parliamentary party having no confidence in you. It would be a bloodbath.
The public couldn't care less about what the parliamentary party thinks -- after all, two thirds of Labour seats just roundly ignored Labour MPs' recommendation on the EU.
Corbyn's very big problems are his complete lack of charisma, implausibility as a PM, and various principles which the public don't agree with -- but the charisma vacuum of Angela Eagle following the doomed Remain campaign strategy would be even worse on all counts, with a huge party split from infuriated grassroots members thrown in additionally.
Corbyn doesn't entirely lack charisma. He's way more charismatic than Cooper, Burnham, Miliband - that's why the members love him. The problem is that the charisma only works on a few hundred thousand people, not the millions Labour need.
Indeed Corbyn is weirdly charismatic albeit in a Marmite kind of way.
Yup. For instance I thought his speech at the Durham Miners Gala (jeez, we really are in the 70s) was frankly rather good. Authentic, passionate, fiery, with a hint of wit. Why can't the Blairite drones do this stuff?
Of course everything Corbyn said was nonsense on analysis, but I I can see why earnest but disillusioned youngsters (and oldsters) find it relatively compelling.
You'll know for sure you're back in the 70s when Jeux Sans Frontieres is back - or would it be It's a Knockout post Brexit?
- or the Bay City Rollers are back and all the girls scream for Woody...
Corbyn doesn't entirely lack charisma. He's way more charismatic than Cooper, Burnham, Miliband - that's why the members love him. The problem is that the charisma only works on a few hundred thousand people, not the millions Labour need.
Nonsense Corbyn has millions of supporters. Admittedly most of them live in Cuba and Venezuela so they aren't much use for winning UK elections.
Mr. T, bloody hell. I was just about to leave. How long from the vote to us actually learning the result? I know there's only 32 or so of them, but the way they've been going it could be a while.
Incidentally, I can neither confirm nor deny reports that the Corbynistas and Blairite pigdogs are in a bidding war for use of the space cannon. I have asked the octo-lemur what will happen, but they were too busy laughing to reply.
Edited extra bit: incidentally, worth noting the octo-lemur got the referendum result spot on.
1. Michael Gove's finishes his launch speech 2. Manned flight to Mars 3. Tonights Labour NEC meeting concludes 4. Spurs win the Premiership title 5. Theresa May completes her third term 6. Nick Palmer critical of the Labour party 7. President Putin comes out of the closet 8. Andrea Leadsom becomes Pope .... again 9. Robert Smithson joins the Liberal Democrats
Mr. Eek, it's MPs and MEPs, though. He might get something like 25-30 MPs. Could the MEPs get him over the line?
Mr. Jonathan, worse than the end of the Coalition? Yes. Worse than when he took over from Brown? No.
AAA Brown handed over a golden legacy compared to this crock of shit.
That's not true. Brown destroyed the party from within to cement his position. That's why you have no leaders or anyone even close to being one. Make no mistake, Brown is largely to blame.
Mr. T, bloody hell. I was just about to leave. How long from the vote to us actually learning the result? I know there's only 32 or so of them, but the way they've been going it could be a while.
Half the NEC appears to be live texting various journos so we will find out soon enough.
Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.
Why not let him stand for re election and defeat him then, rather than desperately try to keep him off the ballot?
Probably because the members will re-elect Corbyn and kill the Labour party off in the process.
That's democracy for you, it's a free market not a closed shop
Has anyone stopped to think though... if the members are out of step with public opinion, then their claim to Corbyn as PM is a revolutionary one.
I would be hugely surprised if the NEC does decide that Corbyn has to get the nominations in order to take part in the leadership. It would be an extremely unLabour thing to do. I expect him to win the NEC vote relatively easily.
Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.
And which Labour politician do they say would be better?
Any of them at thus stage. You can't go into a GE, let alone form a govt with your entire parliamentary party having no confidence in you. It would be a bloodbath.
The public couldn't care less about what the parliamentary party thinks -- after all, two thirds of Labour seats just roundly ignored Labour MPs' recommendation on the EU.
Corbyn's very big problems are his complete lack of charisma, implausibility as a PM, and various principles which the public don't agree with -- but the charisma vacuum of Angela Eagle following the doomed Remain campaign strategy would be even worse on all counts, with a huge party split from infuriated grassroots members thrown in additionally.
Corbyn doesn't entirely lack charisma. He's way more charismatic than Cooper, Burnham, Miliband - that's why the members love him. The problem is that the charisma only works on a few hundred thousand people, not the millions Labour need.
Indeed Corbyn is weirdly charismatic albeit in a Marmite kind of way.
Yup. For instance I thought his speech at the Durham Miners Gala (jeez, we really are in the 70s) was frankly rather good. Authentic, passionate, fiery, with a hint of wit. Why can't the Blairite drones do this stuff?
Of course everything Corbyn said was nonsense on analysis, but I I can see why earnest but disillusioned youngsters (and oldsters) find it relatively compelling.
Are there really any miners left in Durham, or were they instead lookalikes bused in?
If you cannot command the confidence of your MPs, then you are unlikely to command the confidence of the public.
By the same logic, if a party leader can't even command the confidence of party members, and can't win a fair party election where their main rival is on the ballot paper, they are also very unlikely to command the confidence of the public, no?
This summer of politics is like the 2005 Ashes. You knew after that series that cricket could never be that exciting again. Simply impossible. Drama sustained to the final hours...
I actually care about having a functioning opposition, believe it or not. That's what I would 'approve' of.
As long as pesky voters do not get in the way. Maybe you are looking at a form of "guided democracy".
Utterly depressing to see so many people more in favour of Iron Curtain style politics than open democracy. It goes to show how completely uninterested in the will of the people both major parties are
Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.
And which Labour politician do they say would be better?
Any of them at thus stage. You can't go into a GE, let alone form a govt with your entire parliamentary party having no confidence in you. It would be a bloodbath.
The public couldn't care less about what the parliamentary party thinks -- after all, two thirds of Labour seats just roundly ignored Labour MPs' recommendation on the EU.
Corbyn's very big problems are his complete lack of charisma, implausibility as a PM, and various principles which the public don't agree with -- but the charisma vacuum of Angela Eagle following the doomed Remain campaign strategy would be even worse on all counts, with a huge party split from infuriated grassroots members thrown in additionally.
Corbyn doesn't entirely lack charisma. He's way more charismatic than Cooper, Burnham, Miliband - that's why the members love him. The problem is that the charisma only works on a few hundred thousand people, not the millions Labour need.
Indeed Corbyn is weirdly charismatic albeit in a Marmite kind of way.
Yup. For instance I thought his speech at the Durham Miners Gala (jeez, we really are in the 70s) was frankly rather good. Authentic, passionate, fiery, with a hint of wit. Why can't the Blairite drones do this stuff?
Of course everything Corbyn said was nonsense on analysis, but I I can see why earnest but disillusioned youngsters (and oldsters) find it relatively compelling.
Are there really any miners left in Durham, or were they instead lookalikes bused in?
Nope. It's now just a heritage show offshoot of Beamish..
Welcome to the night of the blunt knives (episode 94)
Seriously, how do any of this rabble think they can be credible leaders of opposition to an entire government when they can't even oppose their own party effectively? It's embarrassing.
Please explain what Tom Watson should have done differently
Unilaterally changing Labour rules isn't an option (quiet at the back, BJO!)
I think it's about to happen but that's by the by. The PLP should have waited until it could have lined up between a sufficiently charismatic candidate with a distinctive and compelling centre-left policy agenda and put a single challenger to the membership. If what we are hearing about Corbyn's loss of support is true, they'd take it about 60-40.
If no candidate with a shred of vision and more appeal than Ed can be found then he should leave well alone.
For what it's worth I think Smith may just about fit the bill, and will probably vote for him.
1. Michael Gove's finishes his launch speech 2. Manned flight to Mars 3. Tonights Labour NEC meeting concludes 4. Spurs win the Premiership title 5. Theresa May completes her third term 6. Nick Palmer critical of the Labour party 7. President Putin comes out of the closet 8. Andrea Leadsom becomes Pope .... again 9. Robert Smithson joins the Liberal Democrats
10. Falconer recognises his position is untenable.
I would be hugely surprised if the NEC does decide that Corbyn has to get the nominations in order to take part in the leadership. It would be an extremely unLabour thing to do. I expect him to win the NEC vote relatively easily.
After this length of time it would be hilariously ironic.. It's gone on so long though that I do think its a perfectly orchestrated Watson stitch up..
If you cannot command the confidence of your MPs, then you are unlikely to command the confidence of the public.
By the same logic, if a party leader can't even command the confidence of party members, and can't win a fair party election where their main rival is on the ballot paper, they are also very unlikely to command the confidence of the public, no?
No, because MPs actually care about winning GEs. As representatives of their constituents they have to care about the GBP's views. By contrast, party members are totally different demographic. They care more about ideological purity than winning GEs. Labour members hate Tony Blair, who won three GEs, but love Neil Kinnock, who won zero GEs for example.
I would be hugely surprised if the NEC does decide that Corbyn has to get the nominations in order to take part in the leadership. It would be an extremely unLabour thing to do. I expect him to win the NEC vote relatively easily.
Mark Steel @mrmarksteel Jul 11 I expect Angela Eagle could marginally win a General Election, as long as she's allowed to keep the other parties off the ballot paper.
Mark Steel @mrmarksteel Jul 11 I expect Angela Eagle could marginally win a General Election, as long as she's allowed to keep the other parties off the ballot paper.
This summer of politics is like the 2005 Ashes. You knew after that series that cricket could never be that exciting again. Simply impossible. Drama sustained to the final hours...
I was in England then - we were going to church one sunday evening, and stopped in the car park to listen to the cricket. Other church goers gathered around, and eventually the rector came out to join us. After the game we all wandered inside and did our god bothering bit.
Welcome to the night of the blunt knives (episode 94)
Seriously, how do any of this rabble think they can be credible leaders of opposition to an entire government when they can't even oppose their own party effectively? It's embarrassing.
Please explain what Tom Watson should have done differently
Unilaterally changing Labour rules isn't an option (quiet at the back, BJO!)
I think it's about to happen but that's by the by. The PLP should have waited until it could have lined up between a sufficiently charismatic candidate with a distinctive and compelling centre-left policy agenda and put a single challenger to the membership. If what we are hearing about Corbyn's loss of support is true, they'd take it about 60-40.
If no candidate with a shred of vision and more appeal than Ed can be found then he should leave well alone.
For what it's worth I think Smith may just about fit the bill, and will probably vote for him.
They had to move now, I mean its possible that they aren't able to win over the NEC as things stand, but in a few months it would be next to impossible. This was their last chance to do something.
I would be hugely surprised if the NEC does decide that Corbyn has to get the nominations in order to take part in the leadership. It would be an extremely unLabour thing to do. I expect him to win the NEC vote relatively easily.
I would be hugely surprised if the NEC does decide that Corbyn has to get the nominations in order to take part in the leadership. It would be an extremely unLabour thing to do. I expect him to win the NEC vote relatively easily.
After this length of time it would be hilariously ironic.. It's gone on so long though that I do think its a perfectly orchestrated Watson stitch up..
I just cannot see it, unfortunately. Labour will always find a way to make itself look even more ridiculous.
Mark Steel @mrmarksteel Jul 11 I expect Angela Eagle could marginally win a General Election, as long as she's allowed to keep the other parties off the ballot paper.
Don't you mean discard incorrectly filled in ballot slips.....
So tomorrow is Cameron's last PMQs he and his team must be having a blast prepping for it as the PLP/NEC is serving up so much cracking material.
Cameron should shut up and go quietly. Without doubt he has left the country and our political discourse in particular in a worse state than he found it.
Seriously? I mean seriously? Are you for real?
Cameron should get up there tomorrow and simply rip Labour a new one.
Unfortunately it will be to little to late as the NEC whichever way they go look like doing that themselves without any help.
Martha GillVerified account @Martha_Gill 4 crates of sandwiches just went into lab hq #LabourNEC
Only the beer needed now and we really are back in the late 1970s.
Not quite ..... there won't be any smoke-filled rooms.
.... or comrades.
I can almost hear Vic Feather talking about "this great movement of ours" and his "members aspirations." Aspirations was a popular union word in the 70s.
Not too many aspirations of course as they would end up voting Tory
Keir Starmer available at 36 on BF exchange and Stephen Kinnock at 50 on the sportsbook.
Would Labour risk a proper leadership contest? Surely better just to get Eagle in position before conference.
Is Eagle really the best option they've got?
A weepy, whiny woman? I do not think so.
Indeed, if I were Labour I'd be twisting Hilary Benn's arm so far up his back right now.
I actually wrote on PB a few months ago that I would probably vote for Benn in a leadership contest, but not after the EU Referendum. I come back to the big point: if "moderates" like Benn had a better sense of public opinion than Corbyn does, then he would have foreseen how badly the Remain campaign would go down with the country.
Keir Starmer available at 36 on BF exchange and Stephen Kinnock at 50 on the sportsbook.
Would Labour risk a proper leadership contest? Surely better just to get Eagle in position before conference.
Is Eagle really the best option they've got?
A weepy, whiny woman? I do not think so.
Look on the bright side - at least she's not called thrush, or house martin, or yellow throated warbler. Actually Angela Yellow Throated Warbler would be a wonderfully Pythonesque name: it's spelled 'vole strangler' but pronounced 'luxury yacht'.
note to self: I must find something to occupy my mind.
Martha GillVerified account @Martha_Gill 4 crates of sandwiches just went into lab hq #LabourNEC
Only the beer needed now and we really are back in the late 1970s.
Not quite ..... there won't be any smoke-filled rooms.
.... or comrades.
I can almost hear Vic Feather talking about "this great movement of ours" and his "members aspirations." Aspirations was a popular union word in the 70s.
Not too many aspirations of course as they would end up voting Tory
The meaning of the word 'aspirations' has changed over time. It now refers to the moisture left on a plastic chair when you stand up on a hot day. :-)
So tomorrow is Cameron's last PMQs he and his team must be having a blast prepping for it as the PLP/NEC is serving up so much cracking material.
Cameron should shut up and go quietly. Without doubt he has left the country and our political discourse in particular in a worse state than he found it.
I don't know about that, Tories united, out of the EU, Labour hopelessly split and stuck between the 70s and 80s. What's not to like?
Pound crashed. AAA a distant memory. Nation divided. Democracy screwed. Top Gear rubbish.
You do remember that the UK lost its AAA rating in 2013, right? The nation was already divided, we just didn't talk about it - too busy patting ourselves on the back about how fabulous the economy was, and look, my house is 10% more valuable than last year.
For what it's worth I think Smith may just about fit the bill, and will probably vote for him.
Is Owen Smith really leadership material? I'm genuinely asking, I've barely ever seen/heard anything from him.
I've only met him in a professional context (a tax avoidance discussion when he was shadow treasury) and he impressed me - we spoke for a while afterwards and he gave the impression of having read his briefing, thought about the subject, and being willing to listen before making evidence-based policy. I think I've encountered a good proportion of treasury/shadow treasury politicians in that kind of context over the last decade and most have seemed either out of their depth of ideologically fixated on certain approaches regardless of evidence. So that seemed good.
Of course it might just be cos we agreed on some stuff...
Keir Starmer available at 36 on BF exchange and Stephen Kinnock at 50 on the sportsbook.
Would Labour risk a proper leadership contest? Surely better just to get Eagle in position before conference.
Is Eagle really the best option they've got?
A weepy, whiny woman? I do not think so.
Indeed, if I were Labour I'd be twisting Hilary Benn's arm so far up his back right now.
I actually wrote on PB a few months ago that I would probably vote for Benn in a leadership contest, but not after the EU Referendum. I come back to the big point: if "moderates" like Benn had a better sense of public opinion than Corbyn does, then he would have foreseen how badly the Remain campaign would go down with the country.
The referendum is done. The Tories voted for someone on the Remain side, and she will be Prime Minister. You are implicitly supporting or equating Corbyn vis-a-vis Benn despite Corbyn's being more vocally on the Remain side than May!
I don't see how Labour can get out of this pickle other than by reforming behind the wishes of the PLP.
The members, the unions, the £3 members - all have to be abandoned, but perhaps only temporarily.
The PLP need to just get together and work out what they want. Then re-engage with the rest of the party. Such a break is totally possible, and potentially fruitful. Breaking one side against another will be a disaster. (Disclaimer: I'm wildly unlikely to ever vote Labour)
I would be hugely surprised if the NEC does decide that Corbyn has to get the nominations in order to take part in the leadership. It would be an extremely unLabour thing to do. I expect him to win the NEC vote relatively easily.
Well I think a narrow loss is now most likely.
This is only round 1, mind.
Trying to line up the next moves...
NEC elections shift the balance to overturn the unfavourable decision? Constituency action - nominate him or else? Court Action? Corbyn resigns, creating a "vacancy", thereby lowering the threshold to one he might pass?
Keir Starmer available at 36 on BF exchange and Stephen Kinnock at 50 on the sportsbook.
Would Labour risk a proper leadership contest? Surely better just to get Eagle in position before conference.
Is Eagle really the best option they've got?
A weepy, whiny woman? I do not think so.
Indeed, if I were Labour I'd be twisting Hilary Benn's arm so far up his back right now.
I actually wrote on PB a few months ago that I would probably vote for Benn in a leadership contest, but not after the EU Referendum. I come back to the big point: if "moderates" like Benn had a better sense of public opinion than Corbyn does, then he would have foreseen how badly the Remain campaign would go down with the country.
None of the Labour party have a clue what their traditional voters think including both their MPs and the membership.... The disconnect is too great. Remember for many people they don't vote for the Labour party but for the non-tory party that can win....
That's why the SNP got a clean sweep throughout Scotland and why someone (probably UKIP) will take over the North, Midlands and Wales.. Labour has to decide if they want to keep that vote or the metropolitan trendy left wing vote. It can't cater for both as post referendum the old WWC now has another option...
Mr. T, Umunna is a slicker Ed Miliband. He's metropolitan through and through, and I'm not sure that's what Labour needs now, with UKIP surely knocking on Labour's northern doors.
Keir Starmer available at 36 on BF exchange and Stephen Kinnock at 50 on the sportsbook.
Would Labour risk a proper leadership contest? Surely better just to get Eagle in position before conference.
Is Eagle really the best option they've got?
A weepy, whiny woman? I do not think so.
You really are old labour.
She was emoting while claiming Jeremy would not return her calls. Barbara Castle would have barged into his office and had it out with him, not blubbed to a passing TV reporter. Pathetic!
Keir Starmer available at 36 on BF exchange and Stephen Kinnock at 50 on the sportsbook.
Would Labour risk a proper leadership contest? Surely better just to get Eagle in position before conference.
Is Eagle really the best option they've got?
A weepy, whiny woman? I do not think so.
Indeed, if I were Labour I'd be twisting Hilary Benn's arm so far up his back right now.
I actually wrote on PB a few months ago that I would probably vote for Benn in a leadership contest, but not after the EU Referendum. I come back to the big point: if "moderates" like Benn had a better sense of public opinion than Corbyn does, then he would have foreseen how badly the Remain campaign would go down with the country.
Fewer Labour voters voted Leave than Tory voters voted Remain, it was the near universal support of UKIP voters for Leave which was pivotal to the Brexit result
Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.
And which Labour politician do they say would be better?
Any of them at thus stage. You can't go into a GE, let alone form a govt with your entire parliamentary party having no confidence in you. It would be a bloodbath.
The public couldn't care less about what the parliamentary party thinks -- after all, two thirds of Labour seats just roundly ignored Labour MPs' recommendation on the EU.
Corbyn's very big problems are his complete lack of charisma, implausibility as a PM, and various principles which the public don't agree with -- but the charisma vacuum of Angela Eagle following the doomed Remain campaign strategy would be even worse on all counts, with a huge party split from infuriated grassroots members thrown in additionally.
Corbyn doesn't entirely lack charisma. He's way more charismatic than Cooper, Burnham, Miliband - that's why the members love him. The problem is that the charisma only works on a few hundred thousand people, not the millions Labour need.
Indeed Corbyn is weirdly charismatic albeit in a Marmite kind of way.
Yup. For instance I thought his speech at the Durham Miners Gala (jeez, we really are in the 70s) was frankly rather good. Authentic, passionate, fiery, with a hint of wit. Why can't the Blairite drones do this stuff?
Of course everything Corbyn said was nonsense on analysis, but I I can see why earnest but disillusioned youngsters (and oldsters) find it relatively compelling.
Are there really any miners left in Durham, or were they instead lookalikes bused in?
Nope. It's now just a heritage show offshoot of Beamish..
I went to the miners' gala a few years ago. I was particularly taken by one of the Yorkshire collieries banners, which had a socialist-realist depiction of a miner, a massive snake, and the slogan 'only the strong will survive'. Rather presumptuous of me to suggest, perhaps, but I couldn't help thinking this a very idiosyncratic version of socialism.
This summer of politics is like the 2005 Ashes. You knew after that series that cricket could never be that exciting again. Simply impossible. Drama sustained to the final hours...
I was in England then - we were going to church one sunday evening, and stopped in the car park to listen to the cricket. Other church goers gathered around, and eventually the rector came out to join us. After the game we all wandered inside and did our god bothering bit.
Best Ashes series I remember.
Am rather surprised by the idea of you going to church! Was it to sight-see, or family obligation?
Mr. T, Umunna is a slicker Ed Miliband. He's metropolitan through and through, and I'm not sure that's what Labour needs now, with UKIP surely knocking on Labour's northern doors.
I cannot fathom how anyone can think Chuka has a drop of charisma, he is the very definition of an out-of-touch bland metropolitan nobody.
I would be hugely surprised if the NEC does decide that Corbyn has to get the nominations in order to take part in the leadership. It would be an extremely unLabour thing to do. I expect him to win the NEC vote relatively easily.
After this length of time it would be hilariously ironic.. It's gone on so long though that I do think its a perfectly orchestrated Watson stitch up..
I just cannot see it, unfortunately. Labour will always find a way to make itself look even more ridiculous.
The labour movement as a whole seems to have an arms length relationship with rules. At a TUC conference in the 70s (it was a good decade) Jack Jones' TGWU was suspended for some reason. At a subsequent conference vote to reinstate it, the motion was carried by a narrow margin. It subsequently emerged that the TGWU vote was what swung it.
Keir Starmer available at 36 on BF exchange and Stephen Kinnock at 50 on the sportsbook.
Would Labour risk a proper leadership contest? Surely better just to get Eagle in position before conference.
Is Eagle really the best option they've got?
A weepy, whiny woman? I do not think so.
Indeed, if I were Labour I'd be twisting Hilary Benn's arm so far up his back right now.
I actually wrote on PB a few months ago that I would probably vote for Benn in a leadership contest, but not after the EU Referendum. I come back to the big point: if "moderates" like Benn had a better sense of public opinion than Corbyn does, then he would have foreseen how badly the Remain campaign would go down with the country.
Fewer Labour voters voted Leave than Tory voters voted Remain, it was the near universal support of UKIP voters for Leave which was pivotal to the Brexit result
Like when Bryan Adams was number one for four months, we could rely on Ed Miliband to promise us free owls, to call for full, independent, judge-led public inquiries, and to remind us that these strikes are wrong when negotiations are still ongoing*.
*And the Government has acted in a reckless and provocative manner.
"Cameron is reported to have told other EU states in his first post-referendum meeting with them that change is needed to Freedom of Movement."
Does anyone believe that rubbish? That is such a typical example of British news reporting about a British prime minister going to a foreign place called the EU and telling those foreigners what's what.
Think about it for a moment. A British prime minister - and an outgoing one at that - telling the EU, which Britain is supposed to be leaving, that it's going to have to get rid of one of the main planks of its single market. And what did they all say? "Yes, David, we hadn't thought of that, but you're absolutely right. You old Etonians had so much experience in India and Africa and it really shows. We're so indebted to you." Then it is reported that they burst into an enthusiastic rendition of "For he's a jolly good fellow".
Except that lots of Europeans now want Free Movement to be qualified, in some form.
It's not like they've never done it before. They restricted free movement on Poland etc, on accession.
Which just goes to show how shit Cameron's negotiation was, and how dumb the EU is, as an institution. Brexit was so easily avoided if he'd been better and they'd been smarter.
In Pakistan at the moment delivering a couple of workshops. One of my colleagues is Belgian. He is of the view that Brexit was good, as we were always the ones preventing the rEU progressing faster on social and political integration. He is in the good riddance camp, although hoping the best for the UK outside the EU.
It is that mentality that confirms to me that Brexit was the right thing to do and that, despite some local short-term difficulties, the UK will do fine in the long-run and it is the EU that has a potentially tumultuous future.
Mr. T, Umunna is a slicker Ed Miliband. He's metropolitan through and through, and I'm not sure that's what Labour needs now, with UKIP surely knocking on Labour's northern doors.
I cannot fathom how anyone can think Chuka has a drop of charisma, he is the very defination of an out-of-touch bland metropolitan nobody.
Keir Starmer available at 36 on BF exchange and Stephen Kinnock at 50 on the sportsbook.
Would Labour risk a proper leadership contest? Surely better just to get Eagle in position before conference.
Is Eagle really the best option they've got?
A weepy, whiny woman? I do not think so.
Indeed, if I were Labour I'd be twisting Hilary Benn's arm so far up his back right now.
I actually wrote on PB a few months ago that I would probably vote for Benn in a leadership contest, but not after the EU Referendum. I come back to the big point: if "moderates" like Benn had a better sense of public opinion than Corbyn does, then he would have foreseen how badly the Remain campaign would go down with the country.
Fewer Labour voters voted Leave than Tory voters voted Remain, it was the near universal support of UKIP voters for Leave which was pivotal to the Brexit result
Gisela Stuart is probably the only one with senority and ability to get a post Brexit show back on the road. The chance of her being nominated must be zero though.
Keir Starmer available at 36 on BF exchange and Stephen Kinnock at 50 on the sportsbook.
Would Labour risk a proper leadership contest? Surely better just to get Eagle in position before conference.
Is Eagle really the best option they've got?
A weepy, whiny woman? I do not think so.
Indeed, if I were Labour I'd be twisting Hilary Benn's arm so far up his back right now.
I actually wrote on PB a few months ago that I would probably vote for Benn in a leadership contest, but not after the EU Referendum. I come back to the big point: if "moderates" like Benn had a better sense of public opinion than Corbyn does, then he would have foreseen how badly the Remain campaign would go down with the country.
Fewer Labour voters voted Leave than Tory voters voted Remain, it was the near universal support of UKIP voters for Leave which was pivotal to the Brexit result
This summer of politics is like the 2005 Ashes. You knew after that series that cricket could never be that exciting again. Simply impossible. Drama sustained to the final hours...
We are living through history here. Enjoy.
If you are reading this in 3016 as part of your degree in the origins of interplanetary political relations...
This summer of politics is like the 2005 Ashes. You knew after that series that cricket could never be that exciting again. Simply impossible. Drama sustained to the final hours...
I was in England then - we were going to church one sunday evening, and stopped in the car park to listen to the cricket. Other church goers gathered around, and eventually the rector came out to join us. After the game we all wandered inside and did our god bothering bit.
Best Ashes series I remember.
Am rather surprised by the idea of you going to church! Was it to sight-see, or family obligation?
Now, now, smarty pants. I am baptised and confirmed in the Church of England, as is my daughter. Why are you surprised?
"Cameron is reported to have told other EU states in his first post-referendum meeting with them that change is needed to Freedom of Movement."
Does anyone believe that rubbish? That is such a typical example of British news reporting about a British prime minister going to a foreign place called the EU and telling those foreigners what's what.
Think about it for a moment. A British prime minister - and an outgoing one at that - telling the EU, which Britain is supposed to be leaving, that it's going to have to get rid of one of the main planks of its single market. And what did they all say? "Yes, David, we hadn't thought of that, but you're absolutely right. You old Etonians had so much experience in India and Africa and it really shows. We're so indebted to you." Then it is reported that they burst into an enthusiastic rendition of "For he's a jolly good fellow".
Except that lots of Europeans now want Free Movement to be qualified, in some form.
It's not like they've never done it before. They restricted free movement on Poland etc, on accession.
Which just goes to show how shit Cameron's negotiation was, and how dumb the EU is, as an institution. Brexit was so easily avoided if he'd been better and they'd been smarter.
670k net migration from the EU into Germany in 2015. If the UK is now being seen as hostile can you imagine how it will be for them in the future.
Free movement is going to be reformed, we just need to keep our head down. Theresa seems to be good at that.
If Corbyn's off the ballot paper, maybe that's the time to back Labour to win Most Seats at the next GE .... on offer at 4.0 (3/1) with Laddies and Bet365. Does anyone really think that with a half credible leader, the probability of Labour landing this bet is as low as 25%? DYOR.
Keir Starmer available at 36 on BF exchange and Stephen Kinnock at 50 on the sportsbook.
Would Labour risk a proper leadership contest? Surely better just to get Eagle in position before conference.
Is Eagle really the best option they've got?
A weepy, whiny woman? I do not think so.
Indeed, if I were Labour I'd be twisting Hilary Benn's arm so far up his back right now.
I actually wrote on PB a few months ago that I would probably vote for Benn in a leadership contest, but not after the EU Referendum. I come back to the big point: if "moderates" like Benn had a better sense of public opinion than Corbyn does, then he would have foreseen how badly the Remain campaign would go down with the country.
Fewer Labour voters voted Leave than Tory voters voted Remain, it was the near universal support of UKIP voters for Leave which was pivotal to the Brexit result
Gisela Stuart is probably the only one with senority and ability to get a post Brexit show back on the road. The chance of her being nominated must be zero though.
If Theresa is smart, she'll set up a "cross party" Brexit committee/dept which will include Gisela, Frank Field, etc. As part of our negotiating team.
If Corbyn's off the ballot paper, maybe that's the time to back Labour to win Most Seats at the next GE .... on offer at 4.0 (3/1) with Laddies and Bet365. Does anyone really think that with a half credible leader, the probability of Labour landing this bet is as low as 25%? DYOR.
If Corbyn's off the ballot paper, maybe that's the time to back Labour to win Most Seats at the next GE .... on offer at 4.0 (3/1) with Laddies and Bet365. Does anyone really think that with a half credible leader, the probability of Labour landing this bet is as low as 25%? DYOR.
I think "with a half credible leader" is key here...
Keir Starmer available at 36 on BF exchange and Stephen Kinnock at 50 on the sportsbook.
Would Labour risk a proper leadership contest? Surely better just to get Eagle in position before conference.
Is Eagle really the best option they've got?
A weepy, whiny woman? I do not think so.
Indeed, if I were Labour I'd be twisting Hilary Benn's arm so far up his back right now.
I actually wrote on PB a few months ago that I would probably vote for Benn in a leadership contest, but not after the EU Referendum. I come back to the big point: if "moderates" like Benn had a better sense of public opinion than Corbyn does, then he would have foreseen how badly the Remain campaign would go down with the country.
52% and many pollsters called it wrong, but sure, Hilary Benn should have called it ....!
Comments
I don't recall Tory MPs being more critical of Cameron than Labour ones were of Miliband, I have to say. I never thought of the Tories as a party who had no faith whatsoever in Cameron. Whereas for years Labour MPs had had huge doubts about Ed Miliband.
- or the Bay City Rollers are back and all the girls scream for Woody...
— George Eaton (@georgeeaton) July 12, 2016
NEC member: "Still debating legal advice. Vote in next half hour maybe."
Then again, four crates of sandwiches have now into Labout HQ in the last half an hour apparently. (crates?)
Incidentally, I can neither confirm nor deny reports that the Corbynistas and Blairite pigdogs are in a bidding war for use of the space cannon. I have asked the octo-lemur what will happen, but they were too busy laughing to reply.
Edited extra bit: incidentally, worth noting the octo-lemur got the referendum result spot on.
1. Michael Gove's finishes his launch speech
2. Manned flight to Mars
3. Tonights Labour NEC meeting concludes
4. Spurs win the Premiership title
5. Theresa May completes her third term
6. Nick Palmer critical of the Labour party
7. President Putin comes out of the closet
8. Andrea Leadsom becomes Pope .... again
9. Robert Smithson joins the Liberal Democrats
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_krait
If no candidate with a shred of vision and more appeal than Ed can be found then he should leave well alone.
For what it's worth I think Smith may just about fit the bill, and will probably vote for him.
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/st-helens-mp-marie-rimmer-11604119
Although BBC Scotland are covering the story in their own, imitable style.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-36777655
This is only round 1, mind.
I expect Angela Eagle could marginally win a General Election, as long as she's allowed to keep the other parties off the ballot paper.
If Corbyn does not make the ballot, anyone might as well have a go. And there are much more electable figures than Smith.
So why is he little better than 2/1?
Best Ashes series I remember.
Cameron should get up there tomorrow and simply rip Labour a new one.
Unfortunately it will be to little to late as the NEC whichever way they go look like doing that themselves without any help.
The rule is, good case, 60% chance of winning. Great case, 65%, watertight 70%. Never believe anyone who says over that.
note to self: I must find something to occupy my mind.
Clinton 42 .. Trump 44
http://www.monmouth.edu/polling-institute/reports/MonmouthPoll_IA_071216/
Of course it might just be cos we agreed on some stuff...
The members, the unions, the £3 members - all have to be abandoned, but perhaps only temporarily.
The PLP need to just get together and work out what they want. Then re-engage with the rest of the party. Such a break is totally possible, and potentially fruitful. Breaking one side against another will be a disaster. (Disclaimer: I'm wildly unlikely to ever vote Labour)
I just want them to get on with it.
NEC vote shortly
NEC elections shift the balance to overturn the unfavourable decision?
Constituency action - nominate him or else?
Court Action?
Corbyn resigns, creating a "vacancy", thereby lowering the threshold to one he might pass?
That's why the SNP got a clean sweep throughout Scotland and why someone (probably UKIP) will take over the North, Midlands and Wales.. Labour has to decide if they want to keep that vote or the metropolitan trendy left wing vote. It can't cater for both as post referendum the old WWC now has another option...
Forget Labour - the risk would be a massive UKIP surge - taking mainly Lab but also some Con seats - and potentially enough to deny a Con majority.
Clinton 42 .. Trump 47
Note - large underpoll of Hispanics with a 13 point Trump lead in that demographic !!
http://winwithjmc.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/Florida-Executive-Summary.pdf
Like when Bryan Adams was number one for four months, we could rely on Ed Miliband to promise us free owls, to call for full, independent, judge-led public inquiries, and to remind us that these strikes are wrong when negotiations are still ongoing*.
*And the Government has acted in a reckless and provocative manner.
It is that mentality that confirms to me that Brexit was the right thing to do and that, despite some local short-term difficulties, the UK will do fine in the long-run and it is the EU that has a potentially tumultuous future.
If you are reading this in 3016 as part of your degree in the origins of interplanetary political relations...
Hello !!!
*waves*
Free movement is going to be reformed, we just need to keep our head down. Theresa seems to be good at that.
DYOR.