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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn’s future – the wait goes on

SystemSystem Posts: 12,265
edited July 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn’s future – the wait goes on

Labour’s NEC is deciding whether Corbyn can be on the ballot in the coming leadership election without having to secure the nominations of 51 MPs and MEPs.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270
    First!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,158
    Second :)
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    Second like the EU.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,158
    A May 1-2
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,769
    This is inspirational politics at its best.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,768
    iain watson ‏@iainjwatson 6m6 minutes ago
    So after losing the vote on the secret ballot better news for Jeremy Corbyn in that the case for automatic inclusion on ballot being heard
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Mr. Jonathan, why make a decision when you can talk about it for eight bloody hours?

    Gove took 5 minutes to knife Boris. He should subcontract his services to Labour.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,768
    eek said:
    If it comes to last in the room wins


    My bet is on Dennis
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,334
    This wait is getting boring.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,768
    iain watson ‏@iainjwatson 3m3 minutes ago
    Slight clarification -nec About to hear pro Corbyn legal advice rather than currently in process of hearing it
  • MontyHallMontyHall Posts: 226
    edited July 2016

    Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.

    Why not let him stand for re election and defeat him then, rather than desperately try to keep him off the ballot?
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664

    iain watson ‏@iainjwatson 6m6 minutes ago
    So after losing the vote on the secret ballot better news for Jeremy Corbyn in that the case for automatic inclusion on ballot being heard

    Why would it not be heard, as it is the whole point of the meeting?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,797

    eek said:
    If it comes to last in the room wins


    My bet is on Dennis
    Looks at the spreadsheet of NEC members...

    I'm not taking that bet....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,562
    Martha GillVerified account
    @Martha_Gill
    4 crates of sandwiches just went into lab hq #LabourNEC

    Only the beer needed now and we really are back in the late 1970s.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    This is what we'll look like by the time a decision is arrived at:

    http://bit.ly/17jFxxQ
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    edited July 2016
    I saw Stephen Kinnock being interviewed earlier on Sky News. He was furious about Corbyn wanting Article 50 invoked immediately.

    Nice that he cares about the pensions of his old ma and da.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112
    SeanT said:

    This place is harrowingly beautiful.

    PB?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,769
    You know that Blair new dawn moment. This is the opposite.

  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Mr. T, I like pb.com too, but that's overdoing it a bit.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    Ishmael_X said:

    iain watson ‏@iainjwatson 6m6 minutes ago
    So after losing the vote on the secret ballot better news for Jeremy Corbyn in that the case for automatic inclusion on ballot being heard

    Why would it not be heard, as it is the whole point of the meeting?
    Very little that has happened in this entire saga has made any sense...!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,562
    TOPPING said:

    SeanT said:

    This place is harrowingly beautiful.

    PB?
    Well it can certainly be harrowing, if you've got a hundred quid on some outsider who falls just short of the cabinet winning post.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,797

    Martha GillVerified account
    @Martha_Gill
    4 crates of sandwiches just went into lab hq #LabourNEC

    Only the beer needed now and we really are back in the late 1970s.

    Can't find anyone who makes it but here is the recipe for Watney's Red Barrel - should be enough to put you off....

    http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/how-to-brew-watneys-red-barrel.html
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    MontyHall said:

    Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.

    Why not let him stand for re election and defeat him then, rather than desperately try to keep him off the ballot?
    Probably because the members will re-elect Corbyn and kill the Labour party off in the process.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited July 2016

    Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.

    And which Labour politician do they say would be better?

    We had this with both Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband -- vox pops of people saying "I don't like the current leader, they should replace him".......before a new replacement comes in who is even worse.

    Let's hear an actual alternative who would be BETTER than Corbyn (i.e. not Angela Eagle).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,562
    MontyHall said:

    Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.

    Why not let him stand for re election and defeat him then, rather than desperately try to keep him off the ballot?
    'cos he might win if he's on the ballot. Although personally I'm not convinced of this at all, but PLP is.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    edited July 2016
    Danny565 said:

    Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.

    And which Labour politician do they say would be better?
    Basically anyone who isn't Jeremy Corbyn (except John McDonnell).
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112

    TOPPING said:

    SeanT said:

    This place is harrowingly beautiful.

    PB?
    Well it can certainly be harrowing, if you've got a hundred quid on some outsider who falls just short of the cabinet winning post.
    I'm holding a Stephen Kinnock next Lab leader betting slip tell me about it.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,889

    Martha GillVerified account
    @Martha_Gill
    4 crates of sandwiches just went into lab hq #LabourNEC

    Only the beer needed now and we really are back in the late 1970s.

    - and Composite 42, Madam Chairman, smoke filled rooms ......
  • MontyHallMontyHall Posts: 226

    MontyHall said:

    Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.

    Why not let him stand for re election and defeat him then, rather than desperately try to keep him off the ballot?
    Probably because the members will re-elect Corbyn and kill the Labour party off in the process.
    That's democracy for you, it's a free market not a closed shop
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Danny565 said:

    Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.

    And which Labour politician do they say would be better?
    Basically anyone who isn't Jeremy Corbyn (except John McDonnell).
    Such as....?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,769
    edited July 2016
    Danny565 said:

    Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.

    And which Labour politician do they say would be better?
    Any of them at this stage. You can't go into a GE, let alone form a govt with your entire parliamentary party having no confidence in you. It would be a bloodbath.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    To while away a few minutes, here's another meeting of union sorts:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amZsdpLXcIo
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,405

    MontyHall said:

    Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.

    Why not let him stand for re election and defeat him then, rather than desperately try to keep him off the ballot?
    Probably because the members will re-elect Corbyn and kill the Labour party off in the process.
    "This will be a day long remembered. It has seen the end of Cameron, and will soon see the end of the Labour Party!" :)
  • Martha GillVerified account
    @Martha_Gill
    4 crates of sandwiches just went into lab hq #LabourNEC

    Only the beer needed now and we really are back in the late 1970s.

    Not quite ..... there won't be any smoke-filled rooms.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,721
    Jonathan said:

    Danny565 said:

    Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.

    And which Labour politician do they say would be better?
    Any of them at this stage. You can't go into a GE, let alone form a govt with your entire parliamentary party having no confidence in you. It would be a bloodbath.
    Not much fun when all your members are against the PLP and going to deselect them either, double bloodbath with bells on.
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    He will be on the ballot sooner or later.

    Sooner if the NEC, abide by the rules as written.

    Later if they force the courts to compel them to abide by the rules as written.

  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited July 2016
    Jonathan said:

    Danny565 said:

    Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.

    And which Labour politician do they say would be better?
    Any of them at thus stage. You can't go into a GE, let alone form a govt with your entire parliamentary party having no confidence in you. It would be a bloodbath.
    The public couldn't care less about what the parliamentary party thinks -- after all, two thirds of Labour seats just roundly ignored Labour MPs' recommendation on the EU.

    Corbyn's very big problems are his complete lack of charisma, implausibility as a PM, and various principles which the public don't agree with -- but the charisma vacuum of Angela Eagle following the doomed Remain campaign strategy would be even worse on all counts, with a huge party split from infuriated grassroots members thrown in additionally.
  • I reckon the Conservatives could start again, ditch May and still have a new PM before Labour finish their deliberations.

    It makes me want a Corbyn Government though, as in reality it would mean nothing ever happening except biscuits and tea being consumed. Everyone could get on happily with their lives?
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,769
    malcolmg said:

    Jonathan said:

    Danny565 said:

    Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.

    And which Labour politician do they say would be better?
    Any of them at this stage. You can't go into a GE, let alone form a govt with your entire parliamentary party having no confidence in you. It would be a bloodbath.
    Not much fun when all your members are against the PLP and going to deselect them either, double bloodbath with bells on.
    Indeed. Labour are looking fucked either way. Only way out is a fresh face somehow miraculously acceptable to both sides. A long shot.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Danny565 said:

    Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.

    And which Labour politician do they say would be better?

    We had this with both Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband -- vox pops of people saying "I don't like the current leader, they should replace him".......before a new replacement comes in who is even worse.

    Let's hear an actual alternative who would be BETTER than Corbyn (i.e. not Angela Eagle).
    And the people who said such were right.

    The replacement for Ed Miliband was worse because of the membership and the £3ers. Yvette Cooper would have most likely been better than Ed Miliband. But the membership did not want her.

    With Gordon Brown, David Miliband would have probably been better than him (and Ed). But he bottled it, and by the time it came to the 2010 leadership election unions swung it for Ed. Labour's unions and members keep on making the wrong choices.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,562
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    SeanT said:

    This place is harrowingly beautiful.

    PB?
    Well it can certainly be harrowing, if you've got a hundred quid on some outsider who falls just short of the cabinet winning post.
    I'm holding a Stephen Kinnock next Lab leader betting slip tell me about it.
    Me too, although only a few pounds as such an outsider. I've tried to cover as many bases as possible on Labour as anything is possible, but proving difficult.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Danny565 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.

    And which Labour politician do they say would be better?
    Basically anyone who isn't Jeremy Corbyn (except John McDonnell).
    Such as....?
    It's in previous post. Take your pick.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Danny565 said:

    Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.

    And which Labour politician do they say would be better?

    We had this with both Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband -- vox pops of people saying "I don't like the current leader, they should replace him".......before a new replacement comes in who is even worse.

    Let's hear an actual alternative who would be BETTER than Corbyn (i.e. not Angela Eagle).
    And the people who said such were right.

    The replacement for Ed Miliband was worse because of the membership and the £3ers. Yvette Cooper would have most likely been better than Ed Miliband. But the membership did not want her.

    With Gordon Brown, David Miliband would have probably been better than him (and Ed). But he bottled it, and by the time it came to the 2010 leadership election unions swung it for Ed. Labour's unions and members keep on making the wrong choices.
    Which just proves the point: as was the case when people complained about Brown and Miliband before complaining even more when they were replaced, "I don't like the current leader" does not at all mean "I would be happier with a different leader".

    In my view, replacing Corbyn with Angela Eagle would once again be trading a bad leader in for an even worse and even more unelectable one.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Danny565 said:

    Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.

    And which Labour politician do they say would be better?
    Basically anyone who isn't Jeremy Corbyn (except John McDonnell).
    Dennis Skinner?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,783
    Danny565 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Danny565 said:

    Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.

    And which Labour politician do they say would be better?
    Any of them at thus stage. You can't go into a GE, let alone form a govt with your entire parliamentary party having no confidence in you. It would be a bloodbath.
    The public couldn't care less about what the parliamentary party thinks -- after all, two thirds of Labour seats just roundly ignored Labour MPs' recommendation on the EU.

    Corbyn's very big problems are his complete lack of charisma, implausibility as a PM, and various principles which the public don't agree with -- but the charisma vacuum of Angela Eagle following the doomed Remain campaign strategy would be even worse on all counts, with a huge party split from infuriated grassroots members thrown in additionally.

    These are all major Corbyn problems, as is his long-time support for various terrorist organisations. But above all else the biggest problem he poses for Labour is that he does not believe that attaining power through winning Parliamentary elections should be the party's priority.

  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,889

    Martha GillVerified account
    @Martha_Gill
    4 crates of sandwiches just went into lab hq #LabourNEC

    Only the beer needed now and we really are back in the late 1970s.

    Not quite ..... there won't be any smoke-filled rooms.
    .... or comrades.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    eek said:

    Martha GillVerified account
    @Martha_Gill
    4 crates of sandwiches just went into lab hq #LabourNEC

    Only the beer needed now and we really are back in the late 1970s.

    Can't find anyone who makes it but here is the recipe for Watney's Red Barrel - should be enough to put you off....

    http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2016/01/how-to-brew-watneys-red-barrel.html
    Many years back - 70s I think - Camra's Good Beer Guide said of Watneys Red Barrel "Avoid like the plague."

    Watneys promptly sued, and Camra amended its Red Barrel entry to "avoid at all costs."
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,769
    Danny565 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Danny565 said:

    Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.

    And which Labour politician do they say would be better?
    Any of them at thus stage. You can't go into a GE, let alone form a govt with your entire parliamentary party having no confidence in you. It would be a bloodbath.
    The public couldn't care less about what the parliamentary party thinks -- after all, two thirds of Labour seats just roundly ignored Labour MPs' recommendation on the EU.

    Corbyn's very big problems are his complete lack of charisma, implausibility as a PM, and various principles which the public don't agree with -- but the charisma vacuum of Angela Eagle following the doomed Remain campaign strategy would be even worse on all counts, with a huge party split from infuriated grassroots members thrown in additionally.
    You're wrong. Every interview in the campaign will go along the lines of, if your own party don't trust you why should the country. Or how do you plan to pass laws without the support of MPs.

    Thus is such basic stuff it beggars belief we can be talking about it.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,783

    Danny565 said:

    Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.

    And which Labour politician do they say would be better?
    Basically anyone who isn't Jeremy Corbyn (except John McDonnell).

    I'd go for any of the I72.

  • nunununu Posts: 6,024
    FPT:
    Isn't the biggest difference between us and Germany is when they have a change of government they don't have a huge change in policy every five years. We go from Tory to Labour then back again and have big top down reorganization in the public services like education and healthcare whereas the equivalent of the Tory and Labour party there are sometimes in coalition together so it is easier for business to plan especially for industrial businesses that need years of planning and investment before they can even think about making a profit. Very different from most service companies.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,721

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    SeanT said:

    This place is harrowingly beautiful.

    PB?
    Well it can certainly be harrowing, if you've got a hundred quid on some outsider who falls just short of the cabinet winning post.
    I'm holding a Stephen Kinnock next Lab leader betting slip tell me about it.
    Me too, although only a few pounds as such an outsider. I've tried to cover as many bases as possible on Labour as anything is possible, but proving difficult.
    God help them if that is their future talent
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191
    So tomorrow is Cameron's last PMQs he and his team must be having a blast prepping for it as the PLP/NEC is serving up so much cracking material.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    Danny565 said:

    Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.

    And which Labour politician do they say would be better?

    We had this with both Gordon Brown and Ed Miliband -- vox pops of people saying "I don't like the current leader, they should replace him".......before a new replacement comes in who is even worse.

    Let's hear an actual alternative who would be BETTER than Corbyn (i.e. not Angela Eagle).
    And the people who said such were right.

    The replacement for Ed Miliband was worse because of the membership and the £3ers. Yvette Cooper would have most likely been better than Ed Miliband. But the membership did not want her.

    With Gordon Brown, David Miliband would have probably been better than him (and Ed). But he bottled it, and by the time it came to the 2010 leadership election unions swung it for Ed. Labour's unions and members keep on making the wrong choices.
    "Paging Labour party policies. Labour party policies, please report to the PB desk."

    Labour has two duties. One is to hold the government to account. The second is to articulate a clear and attractive vision of Britain that may return it to power. It's not doing either. In political terms it's curled up into the foetal position and is simply waiting to die. Such a shame.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    MontyHall said:

    Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.

    Why not let him stand for re election and defeat him then, rather than desperately try to keep him off the ballot?
    Probably because the members will re-elect Corbyn and kill the Labour party off in the process.
    "This will be a day long remembered. It has seen the end of Cameron, and will soon see the end of the Labour Party!" :)
    "You remember it. Remember every bit of it, 'cause we are on the eve of a day that people are going to talk about long after we are dead and gone." ;)
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited July 2016
    stjohn said:

    Martha GillVerified account
    @Martha_Gill
    4 crates of sandwiches just went into lab hq #LabourNEC

    Only the beer needed now and we really are back in the late 1970s.

    Not quite ..... there won't be any smoke-filled rooms.
    .... or comrades.
    I can almost hear Vic Feather talking about "this great movement of ours" and his "members aspirations." Aspirations was a popular union word in the 70s.
  • Will Corbyn pay Cameron a gracious and generous tribute at PMQ's tomorrow?
    I feel sure that pretty well everyone else will, but I'll be very surprised if Corbyn manages to spit out even half a dozen kind words, it's simply not his style.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191
    eek said:
    So the PLP is taking industrial action? Did they hold a strike ballot?
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    Point of order

    The thread header really ought to say THE LABOUR PARTY'S FUTURE, because that's what this is really all about.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Mr. Nunu, that is a problem. The electoral cycle is essential for democracy but a certain degree of continuity is in the national interest (things like long-term infrastructure and reducing the deficit). Not easy to square the circle.

    Germany's perpetual coalitions probably helps compromise as it's an inherent aspect of governance there.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    The public may not care what the PLP thinks, but the public don't tend to have confidence in leaders who cannot command the confidence of their parliamentary parties. See Ed Miliband (who MPs never wanted) Gordon Brown (his MPs tried to stage a coup against him), IDS (his MPs successfully got him to resign) and so on.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,562
    ToryJim said:

    So tomorrow is Cameron's last PMQs he and his team must be having a blast prepping for it as the PLP/NEC is serving up so much cracking material.

    Corbyn may have resigned by 12 o'clock PMQs in order to reduce his noms target down to 38.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,783
    Jonathan said:

    Danny565 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Danny565 said:

    Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.

    And which Labour politician do they say would be better?
    Any of them at thus stage. You can't go into a GE, let alone form a govt with your entire parliamentary party having no confidence in you. It would be a bloodbath.
    The public couldn't care less about what the parliamentary party thinks -- after all, two thirds of Labour seats just roundly ignored Labour MPs' recommendation on the EU.

    Corbyn's very big problems are his complete lack of charisma, implausibility as a PM, and various principles which the public don't agree with -- but the charisma vacuum of Angela Eagle following the doomed Remain campaign strategy would be even worse on all counts, with a huge party split from infuriated grassroots members thrown in additionally.
    You're wrong. Every interview in the campaign will go along the lines of, if your own party don't trust you why should the country. Or how do you plan to pass laws without the support of MPs.

    Thus is such basic stuff it beggars belief we can be talking about it.

    To be fair, Corbyn does not do many interviews so it would not be a big problem for him. He only likes to speak to those who agree with him. That's because he sees himself as the leader of a mass movement of like-minded people, not the leader of a Parliamentary party. He has absolutely no interest at all in becoming Prime Minister. Which is lucky on a few levels, I suppose.

  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,769
    ToryJim said:

    So tomorrow is Cameron's last PMQs he and his team must be having a blast prepping for it as the PLP/NEC is serving up so much cracking material.

    Cameron should shut up and go quietly. Without doubt he has left the country and our political discourse in particular in a worse state than he found it.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,334
    Can someone explain who becomes Labour leader if Corbyn doesn't get the nominations? He hasn't resigned and but he also won't technically be leader.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,797
    ToryJim said:

    eek said:
    So the PLP is taking industrial action? Did they hold a strike ballot?
    I think its more unofficial work to rule....
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    Welcome to the night of the blunt knives (episode 94)

    Seriously, how do any of this rabble think they can be credible leaders of opposition to an entire government when they can't even oppose their own party effectively? It's embarrassing.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,740
    Who will Bercow get to ask the very last question to David Cameron?

    Think Blair was Ian Paisley.

    How about Ken Clarke - and might Dave then bring in the "bloody difficult woman" into his final remarks?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,562
    malcolmg said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    SeanT said:

    This place is harrowingly beautiful.

    PB?
    Well it can certainly be harrowing, if you've got a hundred quid on some outsider who falls just short of the cabinet winning post.
    I'm holding a Stephen Kinnock next Lab leader betting slip tell me about it.
    Me too, although only a few pounds as such an outsider. I've tried to cover as many bases as possible on Labour as anything is possible, but proving difficult.
    God help them if that is their future talent
    You may be right, I'm just looking at a few outsiders who might suddenly come in on the shortening of odds if the leadership election widens.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,783
    MaxPB said:

    Can someone explain who becomes Labour leader if Corbyn doesn't get the nominations? He hasn't resigned and but he also won't technically be leader.

    He will be until a new leader is chosen.

  • eekeek Posts: 28,797

    ToryJim said:

    So tomorrow is Cameron's last PMQs he and his team must be having a blast prepping for it as the PLP/NEC is serving up so much cracking material.

    Corbyn may have resigned by 12 o'clock PMQs in order to reduce his noms target down to 38.
    he won't get 38... That is why the NEC followed by the courts is his only option
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,334
    Jonathan said:

    ToryJim said:

    So tomorrow is Cameron's last PMQs he and his team must be having a blast prepping for it as the PLP/NEC is serving up so much cracking material.

    Cameron should shut up and go quietly. Without doubt he has left the country and our political discourse in particular in a worse state than he found it.
    I don't know about that, Tories united, out of the EU, Labour hopelessly split and stuck between the 70s and 80s. What's not to like? :smiley:
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,334

    MaxPB said:

    Can someone explain who becomes Labour leader if Corbyn doesn't get the nominations? He hasn't resigned and but he also won't technically be leader.

    He will be until a new leader is chosen.

    Surely at that point he will stand down.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    Polruan said:

    Welcome to the night of the blunt knives (episode 94)

    Seriously, how do any of this rabble think they can be credible leaders of opposition to an entire government when they can't even oppose their own party effectively? It's embarrassing.

    Please explain what Tom Watson should have done differently

    Unilaterally changing Labour rules isn't an option (quiet at the back, BJO!)
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Mr. Eek, it's MPs and MEPs, though. He might get something like 25-30 MPs. Could the MEPs get him over the line?

    Mr. Jonathan, worse than the end of the Coalition? Yes. Worse than when he took over from Brown? No.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,769
    SeanT said:

    Danny565 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Danny565 said:

    Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.

    And which Labour politician do they say would be better?
    Any of them at thus stage. You can't go into a GE, let alone form a govt with your entire parliamentary party having no confidence in you. It would be a bloodbath.
    The public couldn't care less about what the parliamentary party thinks -- after all, two thirds of Labour seats just roundly ignored Labour MPs' recommendation on the EU.

    Corbyn's very big problems are his complete lack of charisma, implausibility as a PM, and various principles which the public don't agree with -- but the charisma vacuum of Angela Eagle following the doomed Remain campaign strategy would be even worse on all counts, with a huge party split from infuriated grassroots members thrown in additionally.
    Corbyn doesn't entirely lack charisma. He's way more charismatic than Cooper, Burnham, Miliband - that's why the members love him. The problem is that the charisma only works on a few hundred thousand people, not the millions Labour need.
    Indeed Corbyn is weirdly charismatic albeit in a Marmite kind of way.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Mr. Freggles, "Unilaterally changing Labour rules isn't an option (quiet at the back, BJO!)" - this appears to be what the NEC may be doing :p
  • Tim_B said:

    stjohn said:

    Martha GillVerified account
    @Martha_Gill
    4 crates of sandwiches just went into lab hq #LabourNEC

    Only the beer needed now and we really are back in the late 1970s.

    Not quite ..... there won't be any smoke-filled rooms.
    .... or comrades.
    I can almost hear Vic Feather talking about "this great movement of ours" and his "members aspirations." Aspirations was a popular union word in the 70s.
    Well remembered, especially when pronounced with a strong northern accent iirc, as in "Aspiraaaaytions"
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830
    Danny565 said:

    Which just proves the point: as was the case when people complained about Brown and Miliband before complaining even more when they were replaced, "I don't like the current leader" does not at all mean "I would be happier with a different leader".

    In my view, replacing Corbyn with Angela Eagle would once again be trading a bad leader in for an even worse and even more unelectable one.

    Well it does mean they would be happier with a different leader. The cases of Brown and Miliband however, are somewhat different to Corbyn. In the case of Brown and Miliband it was their unelectability which was the main issue which is why it came down to getting a different leader who was electable, rather than just anyone. With Corbyn at this stage it comes down to the survival of the Labour party, and the aims of what Labour seeks to be. Given that a vast majority of MPs are united on the fact Labour should be a political party with the aim of gaining power to govern, a different leader means basically anyone but Corbyn.

    As I've said before, since your so stuck on Eagle, it doesn't have to be her. It can be anyone. Just NOT Corbyn (or McDonnell).
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,769
    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    ToryJim said:

    So tomorrow is Cameron's last PMQs he and his team must be having a blast prepping for it as the PLP/NEC is serving up so much cracking material.

    Cameron should shut up and go quietly. Without doubt he has left the country and our political discourse in particular in a worse state than he found it.
    I don't know about that, Tories united, out of the EU, Labour hopelessly split and stuck between the 70s and 80s. What's not to like? :smiley:
    Pound crashed. AAA a distant memory. Nation divided. Democracy screwed. Top Gear rubbish.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    The public may not care what the PLP thinks, but the public don't tend to have confidence in leaders who cannot command the confidence of their parliamentary parties. See Ed Miliband (who MPs never wanted) Gordon Brown (his MPs tried to stage a coup against him), IDS (his MPs successfully got him to resign) and so on.

    Of all the many complaints I heard from people I heard about Brown and Miliband, I can't say "their MPs don't like them" was ever one of the more frequent ones.

    If anything, the comparison of Miliband and Cameron in the lead-up to 2015 shows just how little MPs' "loyalty to the leader" matters to the public -- Tory MPs had been MUCH more (vocally) critical of Cameron in the run-up to the election, than Lab MPs had been of Miliband, but the public didn't care.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    edited July 2016
    Background information from Private Eye on how Angela Eagle was selected as Labour Candidate for Wallasey. I am sure @The_Apocalypse would approve.

    https://twitter.com/Kipperwacker/status/752925691616854016
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Mr. Freggles, "Unilaterally changing Labour rules isn't an option (quiet at the back, BJO!)" - this appears to be what the NEC may be doing :p

    Quiet at the front, Morris Minor!
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited July 2016
    Jonathan said:

    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    ToryJim said:

    So tomorrow is Cameron's last PMQs he and his team must be having a blast prepping for it as the PLP/NEC is serving up so much cracking material.

    Cameron should shut up and go quietly. Without doubt he has left the country and our political discourse in particular in a worse state than he found it.
    I don't know about that, Tories united, out of the EU, Labour hopelessly split and stuck between the 70s and 80s. What's not to like? :smiley:
    Pound crashed. AAA a distant memory. Nation divided. Democracy screwed. Top Gear rubbish.
    :lol: that's the ticket..
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,769

    Mr. Eek, it's MPs and MEPs, though. He might get something like 25-30 MPs. Could the MEPs get him over the line?

    Mr. Jonathan, worse than the end of the Coalition? Yes. Worse than when he took over from Brown? No.

    AAA Brown handed over a golden legacy compared to this crock of shit.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,450

    I saw Stephen Kinnock being interviewed earlier on Sky News. He was furious about Corbyn wanting Article 50 invoked immediately.

    Nice that he cares about the pensions of his old ma and da.

    Not just his ma and da. Mrs S Kinnock is also firmly wedded to the EU gravy train.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,334
    Jonathan said:

    MaxPB said:

    Jonathan said:

    ToryJim said:

    So tomorrow is Cameron's last PMQs he and his team must be having a blast prepping for it as the PLP/NEC is serving up so much cracking material.

    Cameron should shut up and go quietly. Without doubt he has left the country and our political discourse in particular in a worse state than he found it.
    I don't know about that, Tories united, out of the EU, Labour hopelessly split and stuck between the 70s and 80s. What's not to like? :smiley:
    Pound crashed. AAA a distant memory. Nation divided. Democracy screwed. Top Gear rubbish.
    Competitive exports, lowest borrowing costs on record, nation united in loathing Corbyn, democracy in action, The Grand Tour starting soon.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    GIN1138 said:

    I saw Stephen Kinnock being interviewed earlier on Sky News. He was furious about Corbyn wanting Article 50 invoked immediately.

    Nice that he cares about the pensions of his old ma and da.

    Not just his ma and da. Mrs S Kinnock is also firmly wedded to the EU gravy train.
    No shortage of gravy in that family.
  • DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    Ben Riley-Smith ‏@benrileysmith 41m41 minutes ago
    Team Corbyn furious – moderate lawyer attending NEC giving “point by point rebuttal” of their legal advice. No one doing opposite.
  • The_ApocalypseThe_Apocalypse Posts: 7,830

    Background information from Private Eye on how Angela Eagle was selected as Labour Candidate for Wallasey. I am sure @The_Apocalypse would approve.

    https://twitter.com/Kipperwacker/status/752925691616854016

    I actually care about having a functioning opposition, believe it or not. That's what I would 'approve' of.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Background information from Private Eye on how Angela Eagle was selected as Labour Candidate for Wallasey. I am sure @The_Apocalypse would approve.

    https://twitter.com/Kipperwacker/status/752925691616854016

    I actually care about having a functioning opposition, believe it or not. That's what I would 'approve' of.
    As long as pesky voters do not get in the way. Maybe you are looking at a form of "guided democracy".
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,334
    Keir Starmer available at 36 on BF exchange and Stephen Kinnock at 50 on the sportsbook.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191
    Jonathan said:

    Mr. Eek, it's MPs and MEPs, though. He might get something like 25-30 MPs. Could the MEPs get him over the line?

    Mr. Jonathan, worse than the end of the Coalition? Yes. Worse than when he took over from Brown? No.

    AAA Brown handed over a golden legacy compared to this crock of shit.
    There wasn't enough gold for a legacy, he'd sold it.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,769
    SeanT said:

    Jonathan said:

    SeanT said:

    Danny565 said:

    Jonathan said:

    Danny565 said:

    Possibly one of the biggest myths it's that it's only New Labourites who oppose Corbyn. I know Labour voters from all walks of life who want Corbyn gone and fear for Labour's future if he stays. None of them liked New Labour or Tony Blair.

    And which Labour politician do they say would be better?
    Any of them at thus stage. You can't go into a GE, let alone form a govt with your entire parliamentary party having no confidence in you. It would be a bloodbath.
    The public couldn't care less about what the parliamentary party thinks -- after all, two thirds of Labour seats just roundly ignored Labour MPs' recommendation on the EU.

    Corbyn's very big problems are his complete lack of charisma, implausibility as a PM, and various principles which the public don't agree with -- but the charisma vacuum of Angela Eagle following the doomed Remain campaign strategy would be even worse on all counts, with a huge party split from infuriated grassroots members thrown in additionally.
    Corbyn doesn't entirely lack charisma. He's way more charismatic than Cooper, Burnham, Miliband - that's why the members love him. The problem is that the charisma only works on a few hundred thousand people, not the millions Labour need.
    Indeed Corbyn is weirdly charismatic albeit in a Marmite kind of way.
    Yup. For instance I thought his speech at the Durham Miners Gala (jeez, we really are in the 70s) was frankly rather good. Authentic, passionate, fiery, with a hint of wit. Why can't the Blairite drones do this stuff?

    Of course everything Corbyn said was nonsense on analysis, but I I can see why earnest but disillusioned youngsters (and oldsters) find it relatively compelling.
    He had potential but fucked it up because he could not, or would not work with people who disagreed with him even in his own party. He believes his own hype that he is special . Always their downfall.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,075
    Mr. Smith, that does sound rather unfair.

    Mr. Freggles, if we're going Latin I prefer Morris Frontius Agrippa.

    Mr. Jonathan, the deficit was over £100bn! [It's still too high now, of course, but the inheritance was atrocious].
  • MaxPB said:

    Keir Starmer available at 36 on BF exchange and Stephen Kinnock at 50 on the sportsbook.

    I might take that on Keir Starmer. If they can pull through this fiasco, he'd be a very credible leader.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,783
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Can someone explain who becomes Labour leader if Corbyn doesn't get the nominations? He hasn't resigned and but he also won't technically be leader.

    He will be until a new leader is chosen.

    Surely at that point he will stand down.

    You must be joking :-D

This discussion has been closed.