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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Important to remember that the role of CON MPs is to decide

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  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,121

    property bubble had to burst some time anyway, right?
    Speculators getting their fingers burned, will not be many ordinary Joe's worried about losses on their commercial property portfolio.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,101
    Whatever the outcome, it should be underlined that Leadsom was another awesome insight/tip from Mike.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    PlatoSaid said:

    TBH, The Times is still in Remain campaigning mode. I'm looking forward to them regaining their balance.

    Danny Fink has penned the most risible article today - he's produced a few thin contributions in succession, but he's really scraping the barrel this morning.
    Isn't Danny one of Osborne's close friends.. ?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,632
    MikeK said:

    What a peculiarly fascist mind you have @kle4
    I must be off, but I must say, and perhaps my inner fascist is really good at self deception, but I think this has to be one of the most singularly bizarre criticisms I think I've ever experienced or seen on this site.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,847

    I would like to see him involved, the chances of it happening are so negligible they are irrelevant.
    You're a UKIP member and voter, so not really surprising. Again, Leadsom needs to confirm that it is off the table, not just assume that Tory members know it is. May has sensibly come out and said it while Leadsom has been evasive when asked.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,214

    Revealing that Andrea Mitty has not been entirely honest about her career prior to becoming an MP is not trashing her reputation, it is shining some more light on someone who aspirs to be this country's leader. She does not have the experience either she or her supporters claim she has. The public has every right to know that. It puts other claims and assertions she has made into context.

    Quite. And it's not as if others hostile to her interests, and those of the Conservatives, wouldn't be making the same points were she to win. Best that they're aired early for the public (or at least, MPs and party members) to judge to what extent they're of relevance.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,203
    Cyclefree said:

    I think the opposite myself. I think the public would respect politicians who did that consistently. You reap what you sow.

    I would like that to be true but Ken Clarke popping up again yesterday with a series of spot on observations on an unguarded mic suggests otherwise. If he had been willing to dissemble about his views on Europe he would have walked the leadership. Twice. Despite not agreeing with him on Europe I have little doubt he would have been an excellent PM.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,193
    MaxPB said:

    You're a UKIP member and voter, so not really surprising. Again, Leadsom needs to confirm that it is off the table, not just assume that Tory members know it is. May has sensibly come out and said it while Leadsom has been evasive when asked.
    Yup, gulf in class!

    Incidentally I suspect the anti-Leadsom stuff is more likely Gove than May. He stands to gain more in the short term and we know he doesn't have scruples about sharing a stage one week and knifing someone the next!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422

    Absolutely desperate stuff, I can't believe you mean half the things you post on here.
    To me that says she sees BREXIT as more important than national or party unity and unfit for the role of PM.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    @malcolmg

    Do we know the views of May, Leadsom and Gove on turnips .... might be a deal breaker for some Scottish Tories?
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    edited July 2016
    MaxPB said:

    You're a UKIP member and voter, so not really surprising. Again, Leadsom needs to confirm that it is off the table, not just assume that Tory members know it is. May has sensibly come out and said it while Leadsom has been evasive when asked.
    Why would someone from Vote Leave involve someone from Grassroots Out? Not to mention all of the political capital wasted having to subsequently defend the poster.
    There is just no way it happens no matter who the candidate is - I think you're overly worried.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited July 2016
    MaxPB said:

    Leadsom's refusal to rule out a deal with Farage has been a deal breaker for me and for a lot of other members I've spoken to. If she doesn't intend to do a deal with Nige then she should say so.
    This Farage business seems like a complete non-story. No-one has suggested Mr Farage will be negotiating with the EU on behalf of the UK. Do the candidates need to issue statements that UK air defences will not attack any cows attempting a moon-jump?

    The chief Leadsom issue is this malarky about her CV. What was her experience before becoming an MP?

    In parliament she seems to have done OK. Her role in the Fresh Start group, examining the UK-EU relationship and suggesting reforms looks good and relevant. The junior minister roles are OK. But I get the impression that with the exceptions of half a dozen power players in the cabinet, all ministers are juniors.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,847
    DavidL said:

    I would like that to be true but Ken Clarke popping up again yesterday with a series of spot on observations on an unguarded mic suggests otherwise. If he had been willing to dissemble about his views on Europe he would have walked the leadership. Twice. Despite not agreeing with him on Europe I have little doubt he would have been an excellent PM.
    Yes, were it not for his barmy views on the EU he would have easily won, my dad voted for IDS, but would have voted for Portillo had he been there instead of IDS.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,121
    ydoethur said:

    Sadly this is all too common. Remember IDS and his university course (which turned out to be a two-day residential)? Or Ed Miliband claiming he came from a normal background? Or Blair's inventive recreation of himself as a member of a miners' club?

    Leadsom appears about typical. Corbyn of course is the most implausible of the lot, claiming he is sane and honourable.
    Best one was Hague's sixteen pints
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 121,718
    kle4 said:

    I must be off, but I must say, and perhaps my inner fascist is really good at self deception, but I think this has to be one of the most singularly bizarre criticisms I think I've ever experienced or seen on this site.
    Don't deny it. You spend all your waking hours practising your goosesteps
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 22,101
    Why do we think May is attacking Leadsom. Surely Machiavelli Gove is as likely a candidate.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    .
    Indigo said:

    Isn't Danny one of Osborne's close friends.. ?
    I don't know. He's just been such a suck up during the campaign. I get being loyal, but he's jumped the shark today.

    This whole referendum has created some strange bedfellows and stirred even odder passions for the unloved EU.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,160

    In one sense yes, he does. But he fails to mention that nobody had any idea what ticking the 'Leave the EU' box entailed. And we still don't. Unfortunately it means different things to different people. It seems large numbers felt it meant an end to migration, which it doesn't.

    It may mean an end to free movement of people from EU and I am coming around to viewing that failing to negotiate that at least out of the EU will be seen as a betrayal. However, FoM may well fall apart as an idea across Europe anyway as we play for time over the negotiations.
    No, ICM on Sunday had only 28% with immigration as the main priority for the next PM compared to over 60% for the economy. If you add together the 48% who voted Remain and some liberal Leave voters who backed F of M but opposed many of the EU directives and regulations you get a clear majority across the country for F of M even if a small majority of Leave voters opposed it
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,540

    This is the whole point, its likely she'll be in cabinet and the pb tories will be telling us what a great job she's doing.
    Absolutely. Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,034
    PlatoSaid said:

    I hope she can successfully rebutt this stuff, it really is an onslaught.
    If she's been exaggerating and has been found out it's going to be difficult to rebut.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    Misdescribing your role is a disciplinary offence at my firm.

    There are plenty of raging egomaniacs in the City. We don't need one as PM. I wonder what Neil Woodford, who was the real hotshot at Invesco Perpetual, thinks of La Leadsom's claims.
    I would wait on the performance of Woodford Asset Management before determining whether it was real or good personal PR. The fact that he insisted in negotiating his salary with the Chairman is a warning flag for me...
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069

    Don't deny it. You spend all your waking hours practising your goosesteps
    off to the Labour rattery with you... il duce!

    meanwhile the high ground has been claimed

    https://twitter.com/MrRBourne/status/750598577362182144
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,847

    This Farage business seems like a complete non-story. No-one has suggested Mr Farage will be negotiating with the EU on behalf of the UK. Do the candidates need to issue statements that UK air defences will not attack any cows attempting a moon-jump?
    Then why not just rule it out when asked by the press, other MPs and soon party members? It makes no sense to be evasive on the subject, May has ruled it out and been pretty unequivocal about it. Leadsom's dithering and evasiveness makes it look like a deal has been done with Banks for Leave.EU's support if she give Farage a role, conveniently he is no longer leader of UKIP either...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 98,632

    Don't deny it. You spend all your waking hours practising your goosesteps
    No longer need to practise...shit, delete post!
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,121
    TOPPING said:

    ceteris paribus, sunshine, ceteris paribus. And ceteris ain't paribus.

    We import plenty of from USD-denominated countries (mainly US & China) and including much of our energy needs, so the line "good for exports", although true, doesn't mean a low exchange rate is unambiguously good for the UK.
    stop buying foreign tat then
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    IanB2 said:



    It depends on what sort of party it is. I don't sense there is a mood for SDP2, looking towards the centre and the LibDems. You're right that this wouldn't pull many members and would need to bring in another slice of people new to politics.

    My sense is that things are getting so bad that resolving the "which is the real Labour Party?" question may have to be put to the voters, with two different flavours of labour competing to see which survives. The analogy here would be the year or two when the rump SDP and the new SLD competed for the crown of centre party, which culminated in the SDP giving up when the loonies beat them into some distant place at that by-election.

    I don't think we are there, yet, but the party is certainly not making much progress in finding a better solution.

    When we have a membership ballot, and if it goes Corbyn's way, then things would be as they are now, with the impasse confirmed.

    One option open to the Labour MPs would be to act independently and do enough to satisfy Bercow that they satisfied the criteria of becoming the official opposition. Crucially that would remove Corbyn as official opposition leader and mean that we would see a different face at the despatch box. This would probably mean establishing themselves as the "Independent Parliamentary Labour Party" and putting in place a constitution not dissimilar to the way the Independent Labour Party sought to cooperate at arms length with the Labour Party in the 1930s, with several MPs being members of both until the Labour Party eventually made that incompatible.

    That would be a sub-nuclear option because it would leave open the possibility of Corbyn being removed as leader, at which point a reconciliation would be possible. I suspect that a move by the Corbynites to try and expel 170 MPs of the Independent Parliamentary Labour Party from the Labour Party would do the job.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,540

    It's called obtaining a pecuniary advantage by deception where I work.
    Which of us would 'scape a whipping if embellishing one's CV were seriously punished?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,121

    There must be quite a few ministers who wish they'd thrown their hat into the ring, if only they'd known Boris would not come under starter's orders. They might not have won but surely most would fancy themselves to be second over Leadsom or Gove, and thus all but guarantee themselves a senior Cabinet post.

    Perhaps we don't pay our politicians enough, or staff their offices properly. We do seem to have a lot of second-raters compared with years gone by.
    They are paid far more than their competence suggests they should be, some would struggle to deserve minimum wages.
  • malcolmg said:

    Best one was Hague's sixteen pints
    ...not a tiny patch on Dave's 'I'm a Eurosceptic...that particular lie has kind of exploded!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,847
    Jonathan said:

    Why do we think May is attacking Leadsom. Surely Machiavelli Gove is as likely a candidate.

    It's got to be Gove. We have the Sun saying on the front page that Gove should make the final two and then the Times printing these serious revelations about her career before being an MP. Lady Macbeth said Brutus would have Murdoch's support, and so he has.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    kle4 said:

    I may be more pessimistic. Anytime a politician tries to tell hard truths they get pilloried. If a nuanced position is attempted most supporters at least see it as betrayal, opponents as shameful u turning or confusion, lacking extremity or ideological purity is seen as being weak, vacillating, lacking conviction and vision. How often fo see someone praised nd popular for being principled, regardless of other qualities and what those principles are?

    I guess it's a chicken and egg thing. I don't believe politicians would have developed the style end culture they have if it did not work. If it did not, they'd do something else, they'd have no choice. Now, it won't work forever and the culture changes, but it has worked till now.
    Quite. It's like the US Representatives that campaign on taking the money out of politics, yet when they arrive in Washington they realise they have to spend three hours a day on the phone soliciting donations. Then a lobbyist comes along with a six figure cheque for their re-election campaign and all of a sudden their high moral ground goes out of the window.

    The politicians and the media also thrive off each other in a way that's detrimental to the national discourse and to achieving the outcomes desired by the public at large. See what happens in a referendum for good examples of this in practice, followed by the media and politicians saying that it's somehow wrong to allow the public to decide such important policy directions.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    MaxPB said:

    Then why not just rule it out when asked by the press, other MPs and soon party members? It makes no sense to be evasive on the subject, May has ruled it out and been pretty unequivocal about it. Leadsom's dithering and evasiveness makes it look like a deal has been done with Banks for Leave.EU's support if she give Farage a role, conveniently he is no longer leader of UKIP either...
    May was very direct "Absolutely not, no."
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    ToryJim said:

    Yup, gulf in class!

    Incidentally I suspect the anti-Leadsom stuff is more likely Gove than May. He stands to gain more in the short term and we know he doesn't have scruples about sharing a stage one week and knifing someone the next!

    Gove involved in duplicitous behaviour. Say it isn't so !!!!

  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,214

    off to the Labour rattery with you... il duce!

    meanwhile the high ground has been claimed

    https://twitter.com/MrRBourne/status/750598577362182144
    Presume he's missed all the bile that Banks / leave.eu is spouting then.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,017
    edited July 2016
    Leadsom is going to have to isdue some very credible clarifications very soon ...
    https://twitter.com/vb2b/status/750592858818740225
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    To me that says she sees BREXIT as more important than national or party unity and unfit for the role of PM.
    She is in a majority then, 52% voted to leave, they ignored party lines.

    You are utterly incapable of doing so.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,121
    Cyclefree said:

    There is one big link between Chilcott and the Tory leadership election and the referendum.

    The willingness / ability of politicians to tell us the truth, to be honest about themselves, about the institutions we are in and the policies governments are proposing.

    And that failure to speak honestly and intelligently is at the root of so many of our problems.

    I thought it was mandatory for Tories.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,203
    PlatoSaid said:

    .

    I don't know. He's just been such a suck up during the campaign. I get being loyal, but he's jumped the shark today.

    This whole referendum has created some strange bedfellows and stirred even odder passions for the unloved EU.
    There was a good story about Osborne attending the Labour Party conference as one of two representatives of the Conservative party in the very early years of Blair. Having heard him speak Osborne was gutted and said we are never going to beat this man, he gives us nowhere to go. The other representative who agreed with this assessment (which of course proved spot on) was his close friend Danny the Fink.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,307
    Corbyn waiting for Chilcott, reminded me of this old Private Eye Cover.

    http://www.geraldscarfe.com/shop/discount/private-eye-cover-denning-is-served/

    I guess that old fool Corbyn will get up to have one last go at Blair and all his works to poison the well for his political enemies. He will use Chilcott as his swansong then resign by the weekend.

    On the other hand he might well do something else.
  • Scrapheap_as_wasScrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069

    Presume he's missed all the bile that Banks / leave.eu is spouting then.
    and there's this small point too

    https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/750600143234269184
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422

    She is in a majority then, 52% voted to leave, they ignored party lines.

    You are utterly incapable of doing so.
    You want a PM for BREXIT - I want a PM for the UK and leader of the Conservative Party.
  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780

    To me that says she sees BREXIT as more important than national or party unity and unfit for the role of PM.
    Could opponents of Leadsom at least stick to a consistent line of attack, in order to make life easy for observers of Conservative Party political life. Is it:
    1. That she has never really believed in Brexit
    or
    2. That she sees Brexit as more important than national or party unity?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,017
    This would be a very smart move by the SNP and would go down extremely well in Madrid. The Scottish and Catalonian routes to independence inside the EU are no longer analogous ...
    https://twitter.com/euwatchers/status/750544883966963712
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,193

    Leadsom is going to have to isdue some very credible clarifications very soon ...
    https://twitter.com/vb2b/status/750592858818740225

    Gets worse and worse
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Cyclefree said:

    No - her role was a relatively junior one. And there is nothing about her CV before then, which is odd because there appears to be a gap. Was BZW her first job?
    I thought she joined as a bond trader out of university and then a few years later ended up as a Director in FIG (like an unsuccessful version of the charming Italian)
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    If Leadsom cheated on her CV then she doesn't deserve to be PM.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    MaxPB said:

    Had a massive rant about gay adoption.

    http://thetimes.co.uk/article/e398c122-42f7-11e6-8b08-e4a8e44356ba
    Not a unique view amongst the candidates

    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10426/theresa_may/maidenhead/divisions?policy=826

    Theresa May voted no on Adoption and Children Bill — Suitability Of Adopters
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    You want a PM for BREXIT - I want a PM for the UK and leader of the Conservative Party.
    Even though most tories voted Leave?

    I don't want a Conservative PM at all, the last year has proven how useless and out of touch they are.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,540
    DavidL said:

    There was a good story about Osborne attending the Labour Party conference as one of two representatives of the Conservative party in the very early years of Blair. Having heard him speak Osborne was gutted and said we are never going to beat this man, he gives us nowhere to go. The other representative who agreed with this assessment (which of course proved spot on) was his close friend Danny the Fink.
    Yet, in the end, what did Blair amount to? A Prime Minister for good times, who (Iraq excepted) ducked hard decisions, and may well have killed his own party in the long run.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,203
    MaxPB said:

    Yes, were it not for his barmy views on the EU he would have easily won, my dad voted for IDS, but would have voted for Portillo had he been there instead of IDS.
    Is that the sort of thing you should admit in a public forum? Sins of the fathers and all that.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,121
    Cyclefree said:

    There is one big link between Chilcott and the Tory leadership election and the referendum.

    The willingness / ability of politicians to tell us the truth, to be honest about themselves, about the institutions we are in and the policies governments are proposing.

    And that failure to speak honestly and intelligently is at the root of so many of our problems.

    Chilcott will be expensive waffle, it will tiptoe round the bushes and the culprits will have had anything like critical criticism watered down to next to nothing. Bit like Clinton and the e-mails, normal practice is to shove person in jail for 30 years minimum for risking state secrets, however when it is one of the establishment , it is just a little error , please try not to do that again when you are President and we will forget the 30 years in jail seeing its you.
  • volcanopetevolcanopete Posts: 2,078
    Jeremy Corbyn has proven some key leadership qualities this week.His toughness and resilience cannot be questioned.He is resolute.Chilcot is very much his day to put his stamp on the leadership,defy the coup plotters,and win the day.As Peter Oborne has pointed out,far from being a threat to national security,Jeremy Corbyn has been consistently right on foreign policy matters.He is much less of a risk to national security than Tony Blair was by a mile.
    Corbyn is not going anywhere.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,121
    DavidL said:

    I would like that to be true but Ken Clarke popping up again yesterday with a series of spot on observations on an unguarded mic suggests otherwise. If he had been willing to dissemble about his views on Europe he would have walked the leadership. Twice. Despite not agreeing with him on Europe I have little doubt he would have been an excellent PM.
    Only good Tory MP around for me
  • eekeek Posts: 29,776
    edited July 2016

    When we have a membership ballot, and if it goes Corbyn's way, then things would be as they are now, with the impasse confirmed.

    One option open to the Labour MPs would be to act independently and do enough to satisfy Bercow that they satisfied the criteria of becoming the official opposition. Crucially that would remove Corbyn as official opposition leader and mean that we would see a different face at the despatch box. This would probably mean establishing themselves as the "Independent Parliamentary Labour Party" and putting in place a constitution not dissimilar to the way the Independent Labour Party sought to cooperate at arms length with the Labour Party in the 1930s, with several MPs being members of both until the Labour Party eventually made that incompatible.

    I can see the logic but the fact the Labour Party made it incompatible in the 1930s probably means its impossible now...

    I think the best we can hope for is that Corbyn enjoys his day in the sun today and decides to call it quits...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,492
    Mr. F, Blair had a golden opportunity and squandered it.

    Mr. G, I strongly suspect you're right.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422

    Could opponents of Leadsom at least stick to a consistent line of attack, in order to make life easy for observers of Conservative Party political life. Is it:
    1. That she has never really believed in Brexit
    or
    2. That she sees Brexit as more important than national or party unity?
    A light weight chancer could easily believe both.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,540
    malcolmg said:

    Chilcott will be expensive waffle, it will tiptoe round the bushes and the culprits will have had anything like critical criticism watered down to next to nothing. Bit like Clinton and the e-mails, normal practice is to shove person in jail for 30 years minimum for risking state secrets, however when it is one of the establishment , it is just a little error , please try not to do that again when you are President and we will forget the 30 years in jail seeing its you.
    I would bet that the report will exonerate the big fish, and blame the small fry.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,795

    You want a PM for BREXIT - I want a PM for the UK and leader of the Conservative Party.
    A very good point.
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    edited July 2016
    DavidL said:

    Is that the sort of thing you should admit in a public forum? Sins of the fathers and all that.
    It's better than a vote for Clarke, I have nightmares of the counterfactual in which we are in the euro. I'd say the blame falls on the MPs for the lose-lose choice...
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,121
    JackW said:

    @malcolmg

    Do we know the views of May, Leadsom and Gove on turnips .... might be a deal breaker for some Scottish Tories?

    Jack, Question is what has happened to Darling Ruthie , missing in action since Brexit. One minute her mush is never off TV and media and next thing she is gone.
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    Even though most tories voted Leave?

    I don't want a Conservative PM at all, the last year has proven how useless and out of touch they are.
    You said that today, yesterday and probably the day before and the day before that.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Sean_F said:

    Yet, in the end, what did Blair amount to? A Prime Minister for good times, who (Iraq excepted) ducked hard decisions, and may well have killed his own party in the long run.
    'Ducked hard decisions' fits Cameron and Osborne too.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 55,203
    Sean_F said:

    Yet, in the end, what did Blair amount to? A Prime Minister for good times, who (Iraq excepted) ducked hard decisions, and may well have killed his own party in the long run.
    He had the opportunity and power to change this country for the better and he did not take it. But, as today will hopefully and finally confirm, Iraq was his greatest sin showing the perils of a fundamental lack of honesty and self delusion that Cyclefree described.

    Good at winning elections though.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651
    Charles said:

    I would wait on the performance of Woodford Asset Management before determining whether it was real or good personal PR. The fact that he insisted in negotiating his salary with the Chairman is a warning flag for me...
    Agreed re his latest fund. Which is why I am waiting before investing with him again. But he did well for me at Perpetual. And like all such "stars" he will have had a good team behind him.

    I clocked v early on - and you can see my earlier posts - that La Leadsom was another bullshitting average City person. Why can't people understand that over egging always ruins a good argument? And once people see you as a fantasist or untrustworthy you are going to come a cropper, eventually.

    And on that note we have Chilcott to look forward to...... :)
  • prh47bridgeprh47bridge Posts: 475
    MikeK said:

    Oh, what about her 10 years at Barclays that was cleverly, and on purpose, not even mentioned in the article, where she was in charge of funds and had a position of some responsibility.
    She appears to have been at Barclays for 5 years in an administrative role dealing with contractual relationships with other banks. She wasn't in charge of funds there either.
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    malcolmg said:

    Speculators getting their fingers burned, will not be many ordinary Joe's worried about losses on their commercial property portfolio.
    Obviously other than people with DC pensions.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    malcolmg said:

    Jack, Question is what has happened to Darling Ruthie , missing in action since Brexit. One minute her mush is never off TV and media and next thing she is gone.

    Is she related to Charlie Falconer ??

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022
    DavidL said:

    I would like that to be true but Ken Clarke popping up again yesterday with a series of spot on observations on an unguarded mic suggests otherwise. If he had been willing to dissemble about his views on Europe he would have walked the leadership. Twice. Despite not agreeing with him on Europe I have little doubt he would have been an excellent PM.
    Quite. He would have made an excellent LotO in 2001, were it not for the fact that he would have conspired with Blair to get the UK into the Euro.

    Talking of Blair, a poignant 45 minutes until Chilcot reports.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,540
    Pauly said:

    It's better than a vote for Clarke, I have nightmares of the counterfactual in which we are in the euro. I'd say the blame falls on the MPs for the lose-lose choice...
    I suspect that including the UK in the Euro would have blown up the Euro. We would have had both the pre-2008 boom, and the subsequent crash, on steroids, and we are far too big to bail out like Greece.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Callaghan on the Franks Report: for 338 paragraphs he painted a splendid picture, delineated the light and the shade, and the glowing colours in it, and when Franks got to paragraph 339 he got fed up with the canvas he was painting, and chucked a bucket of whitewash over it".
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 10,022
    Sandpit said:

    Quite. He would have made an excellent LotO in 2001, were it not for the fact that he would have conspired with Blair to get the UK into the Euro.

    Talking of Blair, a poignant 45 minutes until Chilcot reports.
    I was just about to ask. 10am? A weapon of political destruction could be unleashed in 45 minutes.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,795
    I expect Chilott will provide little but re-enforce the views which people have already formed over Iraq.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,121
    Sean_F said:

    I would bet that the report will exonerate the big fish, and blame the small fry.
    For sure it will be a Captain or a Corporal that did it , and all the chums have pocketed 27M and ruined some trees to print some bollox we could have told them in a single page 7 years ago.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,121
    JackW said:

    Is she related to Charlie Falconer ??

    At least had lessons from him it appears, or has been reading the Scarlet Pimpernel.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,121
    edited July 2016
    matt said:

    Obviously other than people with DC pensions.
    Depends where you have them invested though.

    My AVC's have gone up a modest 5% in last few weeks
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 56,022

    Could opponents of Leadsom at least stick to a consistent line of attack, in order to make life easy for observers of Conservative Party political life. Is it:
    1. That she has never really believed in Brexit
    or
    2. That she sees Brexit as more important than national or party unity?
    Or
    3. That her CV is being exposed as somewhat overstated, she's not as experienced a leader as she's made herself out to be.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,246
    edited July 2016
    Australia is having the extraordinary spectacle of a narrow L/ND coalition majority victory being made to look like a hung parliament due to late postal votes incoming.

    The media narrative is completely different to what it would be if the votes were in in timely matter.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,925
    It's now being reported that Leadsom wasn't even the managing director of her brother-in-law's hedge fund, as previously claimed, but the marketing director:
    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/skulduggery-accusations-misleading-cv-claims-beset-may-leadsoms-tory-leadership-fight-1569104
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Indigo said:

    Not a unique view amongst the candidates

    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10426/theresa_may/maidenhead/divisions?policy=826

    Theresa May voted no on Adoption and Children Bill — Suitability Of Adopters
    I'm a massive liberal (I literally would legalise just about everything, except guns), but I'm reflexively unsure on gay adoption.

    I have no easily-explicable objection to it and I wouldn't be that bothered if it was made law. But as a parent, and knowing how idiosyncratic and fragile kids are, I've got to 'know' that, instinctively, children sometimes need a mother-figure and sometimes a father-figure..

    But I also know they need love and lots of children don't get enough of that from their natural parents when they could be getting it off gay-adopting couples.

    So MEH!? My gay friend told me off for being a wanker.
  • DearPBDearPB Posts: 439

    Jeremy Corbyn has proven some key leadership qualities this week.His toughness and resilience cannot be questioned.He is resolute.Chilcot is very much his day to put his stamp on the leadership,defy the coup plotters,and win the day.As Peter Oborne has pointed out,far from being a threat to national security,Jeremy Corbyn has been consistently right on foreign policy matters.He is much less of a risk to national security than Tony Blair was by a mile.
    Corbyn is not going anywhere.

    Being opposed to all military intervention in the modern era is an easy way to often appear right.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 10,034
    Sean_F said:

    Which of us would 'scape a whipping if embellishing one's CV were seriously punished?
    Any one of us aspiring to be PM certainly shouldn't escape.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited July 2016
    So it appears that Leadsom massaged her CV for some Tory MP votes ....

    It could have been so much worse, she might have massaged Eric Pickles and Nicholas Soames for their support !! :astonished:
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 40,017
    Looks like Pistorius is going to get away with it.
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683

    I was just about to ask. 10am? A weapon of political destruction could be unleashed in 45 minutes.
    The BBC are reporting it's 11am when Chilcot will start his statement.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 44,121
    JackW said:

    So it appears that Leadsom massaged her CV for some Tory MP votes ....

    It could have been so much worse, she might have massaged Eric Pickles and Nicholas Soames for their support !! :astonished:

    That is horrific
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,540
    Pulpstar said:

    Australia is having the extraordinary spectacle of a narrow L/ND coalition majority victory being made to look like a hung parliament due to late postal votes incoming.

    The media narrative is completely different to what it would be if the votes were in in timely matter.

    I think the Coalition will get to 76. Most of the Doubtful seats seats seem to be breaking for them.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,160
    Pulpstar said:

    Australia is having the extraordinary spectacle of a narrow L/ND coalition majority victory being made to look like a hung parliament due to late postal votes incoming.

    The media narrative is completely different to what it would be if the votes were in in timely matter.

    Even with postal votes the Coalition will likely be on 75 seats i.e. one short of a majority
  • TudorRoseTudorRose Posts: 1,683
    Pulpstar said:

    Australia is having the extraordinary spectacle of a narrow L/ND coalition majority victory being made to look like a hung parliament due to late postal votes incoming.

    The media narrative is completely different to what it would be if the votes were in in timely matter.

    Similar to what happened in Austria and look how that has(n't) ended.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    Fenster said:

    I'm a massive liberal (I literally would legalise just about everything, except guns), but I'm reflexively unsure on gay adoption.

    I have no easily-explicable objection to it and I wouldn't be that bothered if it was made law. But as a parent, and knowing how idiosyncratic and fragile kids are, I've got to 'know' that, instinctively, children sometimes need a mother-figure and sometimes a father-figure..

    But I also know they need love and lots of children don't get enough of that from their natural parents when they could be getting it off gay-adopting couples.

    So MEH!? My gay friend told me off for being a wanker.
    I am a fair distance from being a massive liberal on many issues, but I am a (twice) adopting parent, and my views are not that far from yours on this subject. I was really highlighting that slamming Leadsome for her less than PC views on gay adoption wasn't a terribly smart line of attack since May clearly has enough doubts herself to vote against it.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 38,540
    JackW said:

    So it appears that Leadsom massaged her CV for some Tory MP votes ....

    It could have been so much worse, she might have massaged Eric Pickles and Nicholas Soames for their support !! :astonished:

    What a horrible mind you have. That's like something from an especially grim episode of A Game of Thrones.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 65,595
    Stop the War, already made their minds up:

    "Lindsey German, the coalition’s convenor, says that regardless of what Chilcot says, she believes Tony Blair lied." [Guardian blog]
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 127,160

    Jeremy Corbyn has proven some key leadership qualities this week.His toughness and resilience cannot be questioned.He is resolute.Chilcot is very much his day to put his stamp on the leadership,defy the coup plotters,and win the day.As Peter Oborne has pointed out,far from being a threat to national security,Jeremy Corbyn has been consistently right on foreign policy matters.He is much less of a risk to national security than Tony Blair was by a mile.
    Corbyn is not going anywhere.

    If Corbyn had had his way the Taliban would still be in power and Bin Laden would still be alive even if he was right about Iraq
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Oh dear....when they start laughing at you.....
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,651
    Sandpit said:

    Or
    3. That her CV is being exposed as somewhat overstated, she's not as experienced a leader as she's made herself out to be.
    And, a cynic might think, that she chose Brexit because she thought it a good career move. One way of getting attention - as we have seen - but she did not apparently realise that the attention would not just be on the things she wanted. Poor judgment is not what is needed in a PM.
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    Sean_F said:

    What a horrible mind you have. That's like something from an especially grim episode of A Game of Thrones.
    A Shame of Soames...
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited July 2016
    Sean_F said:

    What a horrible mind you have. That's like something from an especially grim episode of A Game of Thrones.
    At least she didn't want to be on their... staff :grimace:
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 51,151
    DearPB said:

    Being opposed to all military intervention in the modern era is an easy way to often appear right.
    Or even to be so, perish the thought.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 79,246
    Sean_F said:

    I think the Coalition will get to 76. Most of the Doubtful seats seats seem to be breaking for them.
    I've done some analysis on "Flynn" - currently called for Labor by the ABC.

    http://ponyonthetories.blogspot.co.uk/

    The electoral analysts at ABC.au seem to be seriously shit.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Fenster said:

    I'm a massive liberal (I literally would legalise just about everything, except guns), but I'm reflexively unsure on gay adoption.

    I have no easily-explicable objection to it and I wouldn't be that bothered if it was made law. But as a parent, and knowing how idiosyncratic and fragile kids are, I've got to 'know' that, instinctively, children sometimes need a mother-figure and sometimes a father-figure..

    But I also know they need love and lots of children don't get enough of that from their natural parents when they could be getting it off gay-adopting couples.

    So MEH!? My gay friend told me off for being a wanker.

    The overarching issue must be the best interests of the child. Are they more likely to thrive in a loving home with adoptive parent(s), whether straight or gay, or in children's home? The history of far too many of the latter make that judgement simple.

This discussion has been closed.