Mr. Putney, we'll see if Corbyn loses the vote and goes.
Incidentally, current writing plans (as I sort of mentioned that earlier) is for another short story in an anthology later this year (Explorations - a sci-fi shindig) and perhaps another novel set in the Bane of Souls/Journey to Altmortis world.
Right, so if you're running for Tory leader you promise continued market access and unspecified action on immigration. Then you join the EEA and accept free movement but stage and "win" a fight over benefits or something other immigration-related side issue. The economy improves from worse to bad, immigration is still low, job done.
And what will the point of the pain of Brexit have been exactly? I don't know who passed on this titbit on this forum the other day: https://twitter.com/dadge/status/747185941886926848 but DC and co have a lot to answer for.
I don't disagree; Worse, the EEA option is the opposite of "Take back control": It gives up control of all kinds of areas where it now has a vote or a veto while still being de-facto subject to the decisions that the EU is making.
But what this site is really good for isn't arguing the rights and wrongs, it's working out what politicians will do and what will win and lose them elections. And looking at the options politicians have for the situation they now find themselves in, I'm not seeing anything remotely as attractive as "EEA quick, grand-stand on immigration benefits". (*)
(*) This assumes public opinion doesn't move far enough that they can actually _reverse_ Brexit, but that would have to be quite a big shift, and thus far we've seen no evidence of any shift at all, beyond a bunch of anecdotes.
There are more people talking about it seriously today than there were yesterday, and I expect the number to grow. There are two narratives fighting each other here: Respect the will of the people, versus It's the Government's job to save the people from themselves when necessary. The Sun has a big role to play in deciding which way the wind blows, and as we know that famous Englishman Rupert Murdoch is the arch-Brexiter. And of course if/when it finally bcomes clear that Brexit won't happen, there will be some Trouble. But politicians are not elected to be scared of a bit of trouble. If a politician knows that Brexit is harmful but hides behind the cloak of democracy then I'm afraid I have no time for them.
Mr. Song, if/when I must change, I'll certainly be looking at alternatives. As I said, my main needs are browsing the interweb and word processor (can't be a writer without that).
Mr. Dancer, can I respectfully suggest that you look at a ChromeBook? Brilliant bits of kit. No virus problems and all that nonsense, very fast to fire up, all your work is up there in the cloud so no need to worry about back-ups. I bought Herself one a couple of years ago and it has proved a great success.
The only downside is that one has to use Google Docs for word processing rather than MS Word, but to be honest Google Docs does everything that a normal or medium-advanced user ever needs to do. I have been using it for years without a problem or finding I could not do something I wanted to.
The other advantage with a Chrome Book, especially for someone living on a character building level of income, is they are cheap - much cheaper than a decent laptop PC and absurdly cheap compared to the Mac.
I'd look at buying from John Lewis too. They give a 2 year warranty on computers.
Well having reciprocal welfare restrictions hurts UK citizens in the EU as well so its not like there wouldn't be any downsides for us. All those oldies would have to start paying up for their "emergency" healthcare in Spain for example.
Overseas residents aren't great at voting, and even the ones who are lose the right to do it after 15 years. The government is supposed to be extending that, but since they're going to shaft these people they may well turn out to be too busy...
Thing is it is a real worry for many in Spain - where I live. I have private health cover as I'm only 62 but many who are older and ( inevitably ) with health issues would really have no choice but to return to the UK - where there calls on the NHS and social services would be considerable. There could easily be thousands of people affected - and it can take years to sell property here - a situation not made easier by last week's result. Either way incidentally the UK gets the bill before anyone tells me on here that the UK should seek to look the other way. That is simply not an option.
Just seen Farage speaking at the EU Parliament. Shameful, utterly shameful.
The MP for Clacton should resign the whip.
What's he said now ?
He just insulted a load of MEPs to their faces. Stuff like "you've never had a proper job, never done a days work in your lives".
Even when we're out of the EU, he still represents Britain abroad. He makes us look like complete arseholes.
No wonder they're glad to see the back of us.
I didn't see it but curiously my MIL (stalwart Labour, voted Remain because of that) did and volunteered to me that she thought it was a good speech even although it was being boo'd a lot of the time.
I can well see why the European Parliament is keen to see the back of him though.
I think that EEA countries can withdrawal ALL benefits from EU citizens.
Yup, this is the obvious way to square the circle with Leave's immigration promises. In reality it wouldn't make a lot of difference, but immigration (especially net immigration) will most likely be falling anyhow as Britain becomes poorer and more racist.
Indeed - most immigrants come here looking for a job and will worry about health care etc when they have to. But as we become a less attractive country to live in - economically and socially - less will come.
Right, so if you're running for Tory leader you promise continued market access and unspecified action on immigration. Then you join the EEA and accept free movement but stage and "win" a fight over benefits or something other immigration-related side issue. The economy improves from worse to bad, immigration is still low, job done.
And what will the point of the pain of Brexit have been exactly? I don't know who passed on this titbit on this forum the other day: https://twitter.com/dadge/status/747185941886926848 but DC and co have a lot to answer for.
I don't disagree; Worse, the EEA option is the opposite of "Take back control": It gives up control of all kinds of areas where it now has a vote or a veto while still being de-facto subject to the decisions that the EU is making.
In what area(s) would EEA mean us giving up a veto?
Cameron announced the referendum, went to negotiate a deal, and got one (a good one). Perhaps the EU is unreformable but his deal cemented our special status within, or perhaps call it alongside it. Even if you think the deal is useless, do I think that Dave should have done anything differently? Not really. Why should he have played the cute games that the EU might have been playing? He went to negotiate a deal, negotiated a deal and we voted on it. If people say "well you should have played hardball, delayed, threatened, etc" well that is no way to conduct diplomacy. As we now see, compared with what we are about to get, it was not only good, it was great.
If Cameron`s deal was as good as you claim, Mr Topping, why didn`t Cameron and Osborne campaign positively on his supposed triumph?
Could it have been that even they did not thnk it was a world-beater?
Probably because whatever deal they had struck on immigration would have been unsatisfactory to many Leave voters who won't be happy with any migrants coming here. They'd have been fools to campaign on it.
They did not have to convince all the people inclined to vote to leave, just enough of them. Campaigning with a positive message of what they had achieved might have done that.
As it was there were people like me who remembered what Cameron had said in 2013 about reforming the EU and only staying in a reformed EU. Remembered what he said about his deal at the time and wondered whether it was worth the paper it was written on. Then when he failed even to really mention it let alone campaign on it wondered why and, personally, came to the conclusion that it was therefore probably not worth the paper it was written on.
Furthermore, it made Cameron look duplicitous or, more accurately, more duplicitous. Then when he went big on all the silly scare stories from the outset, I think he ceased to be listened to let alone believed. Osborne's punishment budget threat was the final straw.
Considering the polling at the outset of the whole process the referendum was Cameron's to lose. He lost it, through I think arrogance, stupidity, misreading the public mood and not understanding the character of the English people.
I concur. Getting the character of the nation he leads wrong for me is the most bizarre aspect of all.
We're bloody minded when threatened. I've rarely felt more proud than on Friday morning. We poked The Establishment in the eye and flicked two fingers at the EU panjorams.
Mr. Putney, we'll see if Corbyn loses the vote and goes.
Incidentally, current writing plans (as I sort of mentioned that earlier) is for another short story in an anthology later this year (Explorations - a sci-fi shindig) and perhaps another novel set in the Bane of Souls/Journey to Altmortis world.
Nick Cohen said yesterday to expect Mr Corbyn to ignore any PLP vote.
"Understand that the far left hates Labour more than the Tories, Ukip or BNP, and Corbyn's desperate attempts to cling on will make sense"
We have always been given to believe from PB threads and elsewhere that it was nigh on impossible to remove Corbyn as Labour leader against his will. Yet if today's vote of no confidence goes against him, it would seem that this has been achieved in just two days, with the process having been instigated by just one individual. It appears that Labour's leadership rules are not so impregnable after all.
He won't have to resign after the vote of no confidence and will not.
The far left has always hated the Labour party and have wanted to destroy it in order to build a new party of the proletariat that has no truck with capitalism or oppressive notions such as aspiration. The membership will now help the far left to achieve its aim.
We have always been given to believe from PB threads and elsewhere that it was nigh on impossible to remove Corbyn as Labour leader against his will. Yet if today's vote of no confidence goes against him, it would seem that this has been achieved in just two days, with the process having been instigated by just one individual. It appears that Labour's leadership rules are not so impregnable after all.
But to be removed he would have to be successfully challanged in a ballot of the members. As of now he is far from removed.
Graham Allen, MP, says it is effectively meaningless. A ballot has to be triggered by 51 MPs. Of course, the size of the non confidence vote will show the likely number of MPs who will trigger a formal leadership election in next few days.
I think that EEA countries can withdrawal ALL benefits from EU citizens.
Yup, this is the obvious way to square the circle with Leave's immigration promises. In reality it wouldn't make a lot of difference, but immigration (especially net immigration) will most likely be falling anyhow as Britain becomes poorer and more racist.
Indeed - most immigrants come here looking for a job and will worry about health care etc when they have to. But as we become a less attractive country to live in - economically and socially - less will come.
Right, so if you're running for Tory leader you promise continued market access and unspecified action on immigration. Then you join the EEA and accept free movement but stage and "win" a fight over benefits or something other immigration-related side issue. The economy improves from worse to bad, immigration is still low, job done.
And what will the point of the pain of Brexit have been exactly? I don't know who passed on this titbit on this forum the other day: https://twitter.com/dadge/status/747185941886926848 but DC and co have a lot to answer for.
I don't disagree; Worse, the EEA option is the opposite of "Take back control": It gives up control of all kinds of areas where it now has a vote or a veto while still being de-facto subject to the decisions that the EU is making.
In what area(s) would EEA mean us giving up a veto?
Talking of Messrs Johnson - has Alan Johnson no ambition to be Labour leader? Would he not unite the party and he is at least electable?
This must be the first time Labour MPs have not bothered to ask the leader of Labour’s Remain campaign to step up to the plate, - as he always says No.
We have always been given to believe from PB threads and elsewhere that it was nigh on impossible to remove Corbyn as Labour leader against his will. Yet if today's vote of no confidence goes against him, it would seem that this has been achieved in just two days, with the process having been instigated by just one individual. It appears that Labour's leadership rules are not so impregnable after all.
He won't have to resign after the vote of no confidence and will not.
The far left has always hated the Labour party and have wanted to destroy it in order to build a new party of the proletariat that has no truck with capitalism or oppressive notions such as aspiration. The membership will now help the far left to achieve its aim.
He will be destroyed in the leadership election.
The art of playing with high stakes is to know when to check out. Now would be the perfect moment for Corbyn to strike a deal.
Right, so if you're running for Tory leader you promise continued market access and unspecified action on immigration. Then you join the EEA and accept free movement but stage and "win" a fight over benefits or something other immigration-related side issue. The economy improves from worse to bad, immigration is still low, job done.
And what will the point of the pain of Brexit have been exactly? I don't know who passed on this titbit on this forum the other day: https://twitter.com/dadge/status/747185941886926848 but DC and co have a lot to answer for.
I don't disagree; Worse, the EEA option is the opposite of "Take back control": It gives up control of all kinds of areas where it now has a vote or a veto while still being de-facto subject to the decisions that the EU is making.
But what this site is really good for isn't arguing the rights and wrongs, it's working out what politicians will do and what will win and lose them elections. And looking at the options politicians have for the situation they now find themselves in, I'm not seeing anything remotely as attractive as "EEA quick, grand-stand on immigration benefits". (*)
(*) This assumes public opinion doesn't move far enough that they can actually _reverse_ Brexit, but that would have to be quite a big shift, and thus far we've seen no evidence of any shift at all, beyond a bunch of anecdotes.
There are more people talking about it seriously today than there were yesterday, and I expect the number to grow. There are two narratives fighting each other here: Respect the will of the people, versus It's the Government's job to save the people from themselves when necessary. The Sun has a big role to play in deciding which way the wind blows, and as we know that famous Englishman Rupert Murdoch is the arch-Brexiter. And of course if/when it finally bcomes clear that Brexit won't happen, there will be some Trouble. But politicians are not elected to be scared of a bit of trouble. If a politician knows that Brexit is harmful but hides behind the cloak of democracy then I'm afraid I have no time for them.
So if we are not to have democracy, what sort of government would you prefer?
PlatoSaid "If Team Boris does it - this would be my line-up"
I would put Gove as FO - It needs a lot of polite personal discussion with a good eye on the principles. Bring back Mark Francois as Europe Minister and someone like Digby Jones into the team. Leadsom to Chancellor (great head for figures, team oriented and as dry as dust financially able to deal with Carney etc.) Appoint Graham Brady to head of Whips Office Grayling to Dfid to find ways of curbing it, maybe make any EU contributions part of overseas aid? Villiers to Education (anyone but Ms Morgan)
I forgot about Education and Whips Office. Defo Brady.
Gove as FSec would be interesting. I liked Villiers a lot seeing her on the TV - very calm, and dealing with the NI Office must be invaluable experience.
I don't like Digby - but he'd be worth bringing back in to my beefed up DTI.
2) No main opposition (though in fairness we might have two by the end of the week).
3) Leanne Wood wittering about Welsh independence (is she like the Bourbons "learnt nothing and forgotten nothing"?). I can but presume she's inhabiting a world where Prime Minister Miliband bestrides Europe like a colossus and Wales's remainiest areas of Cardiff, Vale of Glamorgan, and Monmouthshire are all Nationalist hotbeds.
Still Nicola Sturgeon is looking the part, and England's football team is unutterably hopeless so plus ca change and all that.
On a more serious note I noted a post by Patrick (I think, apols if it wasn't) around breakfast time saying everyone in the country of whatever background (I paraphrase) should be respected and be safe I would echo that wholeheartedly.
We have always been given to believe from PB threads and elsewhere that it was nigh on impossible to remove Corbyn as Labour leader against his will. Yet if today's vote of no confidence goes against him, it would seem that this has been achieved in just two days, with the process having been instigated by just one individual. It appears that Labour's leadership rules are not so impregnable after all.
He won't have to resign after the vote of no confidence and will not.
The far left has always hated the Labour party and have wanted to destroy it in order to build a new party of the proletariat that has no truck with capitalism or oppressive notions such as aspiration. The membership will now help the far left to achieve its aim.
He will be destroyed in the leadership election.
The art of playing with high stakes is to know when to check out. Now would be the perfect moment for Corbyn to strike a deal.
That's what pulling me to Team Boris - not something I expected to ever say.
If I was a tory MP that would be my price for support. What are you doing with Michael Gove? I'd like to see him as chancellor, with Leadsom first sec to treasury. Very strong team.
If Boris has sensible and stable people around him, his faults can be forgiven. And faults he certainly has.
If Team Boris does it - this would be my line-up
Gove - Chancellor Leadsom - First Sec Treasury Raab - Justice Sec Villiers - FSec Priti - Home Eustice - Defra IDS - Defence Fox - Health
Olive branches to Remainers
Hunt or Hammond - beefed up DTI May - DWP Greening - DCMS AN Other - DifD
We have always been given to believe from PB threads and elsewhere that it was nigh on impossible to remove Corbyn as Labour leader against his will. Yet if today's vote of no confidence goes against him, it would seem that this has been achieved in just two days, with the process having been instigated by just one individual. It appears that Labour's leadership rules are not so impregnable after all.
I think technically Peter he can refuse to accept the NCV which is strictly speaking only advisory under Labour Party rules. However, I am not sure there is a precedent for a leader refusing to go after losing one, particularly if he cannot fill his front bench. Indeed it may be the latter issue that does for him.
One thing is clear, after all this is over, Labour need to change the rules quick smart to make the NCV binding and also bin the £3 rule, which has been an unmitigated disaster for the party.
I should imagine they will look to create a new system based on that used by the Conservatives, which seems more sensible to me (although I don't purport to be an expert).
Gove as DPM & a less demanding brief so he can support Boris more. Party Chairman maybe? Leadsom as Chancellor. Redwood Chief Secretary to the Treasury (imagine having a competent Treasury team!). Davis - Home Sec. LORD Longworth - Trade and Industry Sec. Duncan-Smith - special project to implement universal credit - giving him a cabinet post just paints a target on his back for the angry. There's virtually no cabinet post that I can't see getting sneers of derision from the commentariat. Gisella Stuart - Europe Sec. (preferably 'on loan' from Labour rather than as some sort of 'coup') Teresa May - Foreign Sec. Julian Lewis & LORD (General Sir Mike) Jackson - Defence
By the way, I understand DFID actually doesn't spend the bulk of it's budget any more, it's been disbursed to other departments.
Anyone got a view on, or have we heard from the opinion pollsters who in the main have had yet another total 'mare? Are they all down the end of Brighton pier looking at tea leaves in the bottom of a cup now to gain a better insight into what England (and it is mainly England where they have issues) thinks?
That's what pulling me to Team Boris - not something I expected to ever say.
If I was a tory MP that would be my price for support. What are you doing with Michael Gove? I'd like to see him as chancellor, with Leadsom first sec to treasury. Very strong team.
If Boris has sensible and stable people around him, his faults can be forgiven. And faults he certainly has.
If Team Boris does it - this would be my line-up
Gove - Chancellor Leadsom - First Sec Treasury Raab - Justice Sec Villiers - FSec Priti - Home Eustice - Defra IDS - Defence Fox - Health
Olive branches to Remainers
Hunt or Hammond - beefed up DTI May - DWP Greening - DCMS AN Other - DifD
I'd like to see Gisela and Hoey offered formal roles on the Brexit team negotiations.
So far as Grayling is concerned he should be kicked upstairs, downstairs, pretty much everywhere really.
I would have Osborne instead of Villiers as F Sec and I doubt if May would accept DWP. IDS is surely finished and she might well take Defence. I would leave Hunt at Health but then I am not a Fox fan either.
PlatoSaid "If Team Boris does it - this would be my line-up"
I would put Gove as FO - It needs a lot of polite personal discussion with a good eye on the principles. Bring back Mark Francois as Europe Minister and someone like Digby Jones into the team. Leadsom to Chancellor (great head for figures, team oriented and as dry as dust financially able to deal with Carney etc.) Appoint Graham Brady to head of Whips Office Grayling to Dfid to find ways of curbing it, maybe make any EU contributions part of overseas aid? Villiers to Education (anyone but Ms Morgan)
I forgot about Education and Whips Office. Defo Brady.
Gove as FSec would be interesting. I liked Villiers a lot seeing her on the TV - very calm, and dealing with the NI Office must be invaluable experience.
I don't like Digby - but he'd be worth bringing back in to my beefed up DTI.
EU as overseas aid is a cracker
Ha, ha - "We need to find £350 million more a week for the NHS, Angela, and ensure that there are no cuts in public spending."
Gove as DPM & a less demanding brief so he can support Boris more. Party Chairman maybe? Leadsom as Chancellor. Redwood Chief Secretary to the Treasury (imagine having a competent Treasury team!). Davis - Home Sec. LORD Longworth - Trade and Industry Sec. Duncan-Smith - special project to implement universal credit - giving him a cabinet post just paints a target on his back for the angry. There's virtually no cabinet post that I can't see getting sneers of derision from the commentariat. Gisella Stuart - Europe Sec. (preferably 'on loan' from Labour rather than as some sort of 'coup') Teresa May - Foreign Sec. Julian Lewis & LORD (General Sir Mike) Jackson - Defence
By the way, I understand DFID actually doesn't spend the bulk of it's budget any more, it's been disbursed to other departments.
I suspect there will be no chance that Davis or Patel are given home secretary on the basis that they both support capital punishment.
PlatoSaid "If Team Boris does it - this would be my line-up"
I would put Gove as FO - It needs a lot of polite personal discussion with a good eye on the principles. Bring back Mark Francois as Europe Minister and someone like Digby Jones into the team. Leadsom to Chancellor (great head for figures, team oriented and as dry as dust financially able to deal with Carney etc.) Appoint Graham Brady to head of Whips Office Grayling to Dfid to find ways of curbing it, maybe make any EU contributions part of overseas aid? Villiers to Education (anyone but Ms Morgan)
Gove doesn't fly. You couldn't have a Foreign Minister who can't and won't get on a plane...
He's got over it using hypnotherapy, a few years ago.
Gove as DPM & a less demanding brief so he can support Boris more. Party Chairman maybe? Leadsom as Chancellor. Redwood Chief Secretary to the Treasury (imagine having a competent Treasury team!). Davis - Home Sec. LORD Longworth - Trade and Industry Sec. Duncan-Smith - special project to implement universal credit - giving him a cabinet post just paints a target on his back for the angry. There's virtually no cabinet post that I can't see getting sneers of derision from the commentariat. Gisella Stuart - Europe Sec. (preferably 'on loan' from Labour rather than as some sort of 'coup') Teresa May - Foreign Sec. Julian Lewis & LORD (General Sir Mike) Jackson - Defence
By the way, I understand DFID actually doesn't spend the bulk of it's budget any more, it's been disbursed to other departments.
Redwood and competent - LOL - rather early to be on the juice?
That's what pulling me to Team Boris - not something I expected to ever say.
If I was a tory MP that would be my price for support. What are you doing with Michael Gove? I'd like to see him as chancellor, with Leadsom first sec to treasury. Very strong team.
If Boris has sensible and stable people around him, his faults can be forgiven. And faults he certainly has.
If Team Boris does it - this would be my line-up
Gove - Chancellor Leadsom - First Sec Treasury Raab - Justice Sec Villiers - FSec Priti - Home Eustice - Defra IDS - Defence Fox - Health
Olive branches to Remainers
Hunt or Hammond - beefed up DTI May - DWP Greening - DCMS AN Other - DifD
Gove as DPM & a less demanding brief so he can support Boris more. Party Chairman maybe? Leadsom as Chancellor. Redwood Chief Secretary to the Treasury (imagine having a competent Treasury team!). Davis - Home Sec. LORD Longworth - Trade and Industry Sec. Duncan-Smith - special project to implement universal credit - giving him a cabinet post just paints a target on his back for the angry. There's virtually no cabinet post that I can't see getting sneers of derision from the commentariat. Gisella Stuart - Europe Sec. (preferably 'on loan' from Labour rather than as some sort of 'coup') Teresa May - Foreign Sec. Julian Lewis & LORD (General Sir Mike) Jackson - Defence
By the way, I understand DFID actually doesn't spend the bulk of it's budget any more, it's been disbursed to other departments.
If Boris wins, then it is time to clear out the old guard - May, Hammond, Osborne can all go to the back benches. Who should be in, well, I agree with one of plato's suggestions:
Gove as DPM & a less demanding brief so he can support Boris more. Party Chairman maybe? Leadsom as Chancellor. Redwood Chief Secretary to the Treasury (imagine having a competent Treasury team!). Davis - Home Sec. LORD Longworth - Trade and Industry Sec. Duncan-Smith - special project to implement universal credit - giving him a cabinet post just paints a target on his back for the angry. There's virtually no cabinet post that I can't see getting sneers of derision from the commentariat. Gisella Stuart - Europe Sec. (preferably 'on loan' from Labour rather than as some sort of 'coup') Teresa May - Foreign Sec. Julian Lewis & LORD (General Sir Mike) Jackson - Defence
By the way, I understand DFID actually doesn't spend the bulk of it's budget any more, it's been disbursed to other departments.
I suspect there will be no chance that Davis or Patel are given home secretary on the basis that they both support capital punishment.
Perhaps. I would much prefer someone who resigned over civil liberties in that position than a creeping authoritarianist.
We have always been given to believe from PB threads and elsewhere that it was nigh on impossible to remove Corbyn as Labour leader against his will. Yet if today's vote of no confidence goes against him, it would seem that this has been achieved in just two days, with the process having been instigated by just one individual. It appears that Labour's leadership rules are not so impregnable after all.
I think technically Peter he can refuse to accept the NCV which is strictly speaking only advisory under Labour Party rules. However, I am not sure there is a precedent for a leader refusing to go after losing one, particularly if he cannot fill his front bench. Indeed it may be the latter issue that does for him.
One thing is clear, after all this is over, Labour need to change the rules quick smart to make the NCV binding and also bin the £3 rule, which has been an unmitigated disaster for the party.
I should imagine they will look to create a new system based on that used by the Conservatives, which seems more sensible to me (although I don't purport to be an expert).
The thing about the hard left generally they place no store by parliamentary representation. MPs are just 200 odd party members, much the same as any other party members. That Corbyn does not have the confidence of them does not matter to him - he feels he has the confidence of tens of thousands of others. It's a conceptual thing.
Gove as DPM & a less demanding brief so he can support Boris more. Party Chairman maybe? Leadsom as Chancellor. Redwood Chief Secretary to the Treasury (imagine having a competent Treasury team!). Davis - Home Sec. LORD Longworth - Trade and Industry Sec. Duncan-Smith - special project to implement universal credit - giving him a cabinet post just paints a target on his back for the angry. There's virtually no cabinet post that I can't see getting sneers of derision from the commentariat. Gisella Stuart - Europe Sec. (preferably 'on loan' from Labour rather than as some sort of 'coup') Teresa May - Foreign Sec. Julian Lewis & LORD (General Sir Mike) Jackson - Defence
By the way, I understand DFID actually doesn't spend the bulk of it's budget any more, it's been disbursed to other departments.
Redwood and competent - LOL - rather early to be on the juice?
Gove as DPM & a less demanding brief so he can support Boris more. Party Chairman maybe? Leadsom as Chancellor. Redwood Chief Secretary to the Treasury (imagine having a competent Treasury team!). Davis - Home Sec. LORD Longworth - Trade and Industry Sec. Duncan-Smith - special project to implement universal credit - giving him a cabinet post just paints a target on his back for the angry. There's virtually no cabinet post that I can't see getting sneers of derision from the commentariat. Gisella Stuart - Europe Sec. (preferably 'on loan' from Labour rather than as some sort of 'coup') Teresa May - Foreign Sec. Julian Lewis & LORD (General Sir Mike) Jackson - Defence
By the way, I understand DFID actually doesn't spend the bulk of it's budget any more, it's been disbursed to other departments.
Redwood and competent - LOL - rather early to be on the juice?
It's a right wing Tory wet dream. Can you imagine them delivering on the promises that Boris, Gove et al made during the referendum campaign? If Labour could get rid of Corbyn somehow, they'd be a shoe-in at the next GE if that was the team the Tories were putting up.
That's what pulling me to Team Boris - not something I expected to ever say.
If I was a tory MP that would be my price for support. What are you doing with Michael Gove? I'd like to see him as chancellor, with Leadsom first sec to treasury. Very strong team.
If Boris has sensible and stable people around him, his faults can be forgiven. And faults he certainly has.
If Team Boris does it - this would be my line-up
Gove - Chancellor Leadsom - First Sec Treasury Raab - Justice Sec Villiers - FSec Priti - Home Eustice - Defra IDS - Defence Fox - Health
Olive branches to Remainers
Hunt or Hammond - beefed up DTI May - DWP Greening - DCMS AN Other - DifD
I'd like to see Gisela and Hoey offered formal roles on the Brexit team negotiations.
So far as Grayling is concerned he should be kicked upstairs, downstairs, pretty much everywhere really.
I would have Osborne instead of Villiers as F Sec and I doubt if May would accept DWP. IDS is surely finished and she might well take Defence. I would leave Hunt at Health but then I am not a Fox fan either.
No role for Mr Osborne. His local association should be encouraged to deselect him.
We have always been given to believe from PB threads and elsewhere that it was nigh on impossible to remove Corbyn as Labour leader against his will. Yet if today's vote of no confidence goes against him, it would seem that this has been achieved in just two days, with the process having been instigated by just one individual. It appears that Labour's leadership rules are not so impregnable after all.
I think technically Peter he can refuse to accept the NCV which is strictly speaking only advisory under Labour Party rules. However, I am not sure there is a precedent for a leader refusing to go after losing one, particularly if he cannot fill his front bench. Indeed it may be the latter issue that does for him.
One thing is clear, after all this is over, Labour need to change the rules quick smart to make the NCV binding and also bin the £3 rule, which has been an unmitigated disaster for the party.
I should imagine they will look to create a new system based on that used by the Conservatives, which seems more sensible to me (although I don't purport to be an expert).
The thing about the hard left generally they place no store y parliamentary representation. MPs are just 200 odd party members, much the same as any other party members. that he does not have the confidence of them does not matters to him - he feels he has the confidence of tens of thousands of others. It's a conceptual thing.
Then he will go down in history as the man responsible for splitting the party. The Right and Soft Left will choose a leader from the PLP and relegate Corbyn to the backbenchers, as parliament only recognises the leader in the Commons.
Gove as DPM & a less demanding brief so he can support Boris more. Party Chairman maybe? Leadsom as Chancellor. Redwood Chief Secretary to the Treasury (imagine having a competent Treasury team!). Davis - Home Sec. LORD Longworth - Trade and Industry Sec. Duncan-Smith - special project to implement universal credit - giving him a cabinet post just paints a target on his back for the angry. There's virtually no cabinet post that I can't see getting sneers of derision from the commentariat. Gisella Stuart - Europe Sec. (preferably 'on loan' from Labour rather than as some sort of 'coup') Teresa May - Foreign Sec. Julian Lewis & LORD (General Sir Mike) Jackson - Defence
By the way, I understand DFID actually doesn't spend the bulk of it's budget any more, it's been disbursed to other departments.
If Boris wins, then it is time to clear out the old guard - May, Hammond, Osborne can all go to the back benches. Who should be in, well, I agree with one of plato's suggestions:
#Priti4HomeSec
What about Priti at Chancellor so she can arrange a punishment budget ?
That's what pulling me to Team Boris - not something I expected to ever say.
If I was a tory MP that would be my price for support. What are you doing with Michael Gove? I'd like to see him as chancellor, with Leadsom first sec to treasury. Very strong team.
If Boris has sensible and stable people around him, his faults can be forgiven. And faults he certainly has.
If Team Boris does it - this would be my line-up
Gove - Chancellor Leadsom - First Sec Treasury Raab - Justice Sec Villiers - FSec Priti - Home Eustice - Defra IDS - Defence Fox - Health
Olive branches to Remainers
Hunt or Hammond - beefed up DTI May - DWP Greening - DCMS AN Other - DifD
I'd like to see Gisela and Hoey offered formal roles on the Brexit team negotiations.
So far as Grayling is concerned he should be kicked upstairs, downstairs, pretty much everywhere really.
I would have Osborne instead of Villiers as F Sec and I doubt if May would accept DWP. IDS is surely finished and she might well take Defence. I would leave Hunt at Health but then I am not a Fox fan either.
I'd keep May as Home Sec and Osborne as Foreign Sec as you say. I don't rate Patel. I'm not sure about Defence, but I don't think IDS is the right choice. Would love to see Gisela get something.
Gove as DPM & a less demanding brief so he can support Boris more. Party Chairman maybe? Leadsom as Chancellor. Redwood Chief Secretary to the Treasury (imagine having a competent Treasury team!). Davis - Home Sec. LORD Longworth - Trade and Industry Sec. Duncan-Smith - special project to implement universal credit - giving him a cabinet post just paints a target on his back for the angry. There's virtually no cabinet post that I can't see getting sneers of derision from the commentariat. Gisella Stuart - Europe Sec. (preferably 'on loan' from Labour rather than as some sort of 'coup') Teresa May - Foreign Sec. Julian Lewis & LORD (General Sir Mike) Jackson - Defence
By the way, I understand DFID actually doesn't spend the bulk of it's budget any more, it's been disbursed to other departments.
Redwood and competent - LOL - rather early to be on the juice?
Gove as DPM & a less demanding brief so he can support Boris more. Party Chairman maybe? Leadsom as Chancellor. Redwood Chief Secretary to the Treasury (imagine having a competent Treasury team!). Davis - Home Sec. LORD Longworth - Trade and Industry Sec. Duncan-Smith - special project to implement universal credit - giving him a cabinet post just paints a target on his back for the angry. There's virtually no cabinet post that I can't see getting sneers of derision from the commentariat. Gisella Stuart - Europe Sec. (preferably 'on loan' from Labour rather than as some sort of 'coup') Teresa May - Foreign Sec. Julian Lewis & LORD (General Sir Mike) Jackson - Defence
By the way, I understand DFID actually doesn't spend the bulk of it's budget any more, it's been disbursed to other departments.
If Boris wins, then it is time to clear out the old guard - May, Hammond, Osborne can all go to the back benches. Who should be in, well, I agree with one of plato's suggestions:
#Priti4HomeSec
A hard-right hanger and flogger. An insight into the mind of the Labour Leave traditionalist eurosceptic wing.
We have always been given to believe from PB threads and elsewhere that it was nigh on impossible to remove Corbyn as Labour leader against his will. Yet if today's vote of no confidence goes against him, it would seem that this has been achieved in just two days, with the process having been instigated by just one individual. It appears that Labour's leadership rules are not so impregnable after all.
He won't have to resign after the vote of no confidence and will not.
The far left has always hated the Labour party and have wanted to destroy it in order to build a new party of the proletariat that has no truck with capitalism or oppressive notions such as aspiration. The membership will now help the far left to achieve its aim.
He will be destroyed in the leadership election.
The art of playing with high stakes is to know when to check out. Now would be the perfect moment for Corbyn to strike a deal.
What deal can he strike?
The next general election is about four months away.
Gove as DPM & a less demanding brief so he can support Boris more. Party Chairman maybe? Leadsom as Chancellor. Redwood Chief Secretary to the Treasury (imagine having a competent Treasury team!). Davis - Home Sec. LORD Longworth - Trade and Industry Sec. Duncan-Smith - special project to implement universal credit - giving him a cabinet post just paints a target on his back for the angry. There's virtually no cabinet post that I can't see getting sneers of derision from the commentariat. Gisella Stuart - Europe Sec. (preferably 'on loan' from Labour rather than as some sort of 'coup') Teresa May - Foreign Sec. Julian Lewis & LORD (General Sir Mike) Jackson - Defence
By the way, I understand DFID actually doesn't spend the bulk of it's budget any more, it's been disbursed to other departments.
Redwood and competent - LOL - rather early to be on the juice?
Still an iconic moment here...... Though in fairness William Hague got married on the back of it. He totally got after this fiasco he had to learn Hen wlad fy nhadau and so got someone in to teach him. Her name was Ffion
PlatoSaid "If Team Boris does it - this would be my line-up"
I would put Gove as FO - It needs a lot of polite personal discussion with a good eye on the principles. Bring back Mark Francois as Europe Minister and someone like Digby Jones into the team. Leadsom to Chancellor (great head for figures, team oriented and as dry as dust financially able to deal with Carney etc.) Appoint Graham Brady to head of Whips Office Grayling to Dfid to find ways of curbing it, maybe make any EU contributions part of overseas aid? Villiers to Education (anyone but Ms Morgan)
Gove doesn't fly. You couldn't have a Foreign Minister who can't and won't get on a plane...
He's got over it using hypnotherapy, a few years ago.
There's a lot of difference between just being able to cope with flying fear to do occasional flying and having the flying as an integral part of your job. I doubt if Gove would feel up to Foreign Secretarial responsibilities. Hypnotherapy rarely totally removes the underlying fear totally
Just seen Farage speaking at the EU Parliament. Shameful, utterly shameful.
The MP for Clacton should resign the whip.
What's he said now ?
He just insulted a load of MEPs to their faces. Stuff like "you've never had a proper job, never done a days work in your lives".
Even when we're out of the EU, he still represents Britain abroad. He makes us look like complete arseholes.
No wonder they're glad to see the back of us.
You do realise the European Parliament also has French quasi-fascists, Hungarian crypto-fascists, Greek full-on Fascists, numbers of demented German Trots, "Swedish democrats", True Finns, the Austrian Far Right, Italian Ur-Fascists, Geert Wilders' nastier friends, and Daniel Cohn Bendit (I'll let you Google).
The idea the clownish but sometimes quite perceptive Farage marks us out as uniquely unpleasant is quaint. But wrong.
Don't forget the smattering of other-worldy Greens who think humanity is a blight on the planet. Farage is relatively cuddly. They're booed him because they see populism as an existential threat, and they're not wrong.
That's what pulling me to Team Boris - not something I expected to ever say.
If I was a tory MP that would be my price for support. What are you doing with Michael Gove? I'd like to see him as chancellor, with Leadsom first sec to treasury. Very strong team.
If Boris has sensible and stable people around him, his faults can be forgiven. And faults he certainly has.
If Team Boris does it - this would be my line-up
Gove - Chancellor Leadsom - First Sec Treasury Raab - Justice Sec Villiers - FSec Priti - Home Eustice - Defra IDS - Defence Fox - Health
Olive branches to Remainers
Hunt or Hammond - beefed up DTI May - DWP Greening - DCMS AN Other - DifD
I'd like to see Gisela and Hoey offered formal roles on the Brexit team negotiations.
So far as Grayling is concerned he should be kicked upstairs, downstairs, pretty much everywhere really.
I would have Osborne instead of Villiers as F Sec and I doubt if May would accept DWP. IDS is surely finished and she might well take Defence. I would leave Hunt at Health but then I am not a Fox fan either.
Osborne, I think, has to retire from the front bench along with Cameron. I agree about May though no reason, apart from the cash, that she should accept such a demotion. So perhaps she should also go to spend more time with whatever she does in private life. She has had a jolly good innings.
DfID, I'd like to see abolished as a department and its functions and, reduced, budget subsumed into the FCO, with a chunk of the cash going to the MoD. DCMS should have its budget slashed and perhaps go back to the Home office from which it was spawned.
Conservatives will want a leader who is in favour of LEAVE to ensure we have a determined LEAVE negotiator.
We know May isn't in favour of LEAVE but is Boris actually in favour of LEAVE?
Which potential Conservative leader has been consistently in favour of LEAVE - Liam Fox?
Ugh.
BTW, the Totnes constituency membership lady told me this morning that there has been quite an uptick in membership in recent days. But at £25 a go, probably less of the politically malicious than Labour at £3.
Probably rejoining because Cameron and Feldman will soon be gone?
So are the LibDems, God knows about Labour. I think participation always rises when there has been wall-to-wall politics for a few weeks and an issue that has interested lots of people. It's no different from people taking up running after the olympics or becoming football fans after the World Cup.
Gove as DPM & a less demanding brief so he can support Boris more. Party Chairman maybe? Leadsom as Chancellor. Redwood Chief Secretary to the Treasury (imagine having a competent Treasury team!). Davis - Home Sec. LORD Longworth - Trade and Industry Sec. Duncan-Smith - special project to implement universal credit - giving him a cabinet post just paints a target on his back for the angry. There's virtually no cabinet post that I can't see getting sneers of derision from the commentariat. Gisella Stuart - Europe Sec. (preferably 'on loan' from Labour rather than as some sort of 'coup') Teresa May - Foreign Sec. Julian Lewis & LORD (General Sir Mike) Jackson - Defence
By the way, I understand DFID actually doesn't spend the bulk of it's budget any more, it's been disbursed to other departments.
If Boris wins, then it is time to clear out the old guard - May, Hammond, Osborne can all go to the back benches. Who should be in, well, I agree with one of plato's suggestions:
#Priti4HomeSec
What about Priti at Chancellor so she can arrange a punishment budget ?
She could merge the home office, treasury, and welfare into a comprehensive punishment system.
We have always been given to believe from PB threads and elsewhere that it was nigh on impossible to remove Corbyn as Labour leader against his will. Yet if today's vote of no confidence goes against him, it would seem that this has been achieved in just two days, with the process having been instigated by just one individual. It appears that Labour's leadership rules are not so impregnable after all.
He won't have to resign after the vote of no confidence and will not.
The far left has always hated the Labour party and have wanted to destroy it in order to build a new party of the proletariat that has no truck with capitalism or oppressive notions such as aspiration. The membership will now help the far left to achieve its aim.
You are taking as read Abbott et al's assertions that the membership is still overwhelmingly pro-Corbyn. Hers is an utter misreading of the situation. I know personally several Corbyn supporters from last year who are now unlikely to vote for him again. People have enough nous to know that Labour is lost if it goes on like this, and that it will not end so long as Corbyn is there. That desire for unity is now very palpable and transcends political divisions within the membership, save for the far left who couldn't care less about it.
That's what pulling me to Team Boris - not something I expected to ever say.
If I was a tory MP that would be my price for support. What are you doing with Michael Gove? I'd like to see him as chancellor, with Leadsom first sec to treasury. Very strong team.
If Boris has sensible and stable people around him, his faults can be forgiven. And faults he certainly has.
If Team Boris does it - this would be my line-up
Gove - Chancellor Leadsom - First Sec Treasury Raab - Justice Sec Villiers - FSec Priti - Home Eustice - Defra IDS - Defence Fox - Health
Olive branches to Remainers
Hunt or Hammond - beefed up DTI May - DWP Greening - DCMS AN Other - DifD
I'd like to see Gisela and Hoey offered formal roles on the Brexit team negotiations.
So far as Grayling is concerned he should be kicked upstairs, downstairs, pretty much everywhere really.
I would have Osborne instead of Villiers as F Sec and I doubt if May would accept DWP. IDS is surely finished and she might well take Defence. I would leave Hunt at Health but then I am not a Fox fan either.
I'd keep May as Home Sec and Osborne as Foreign Sec as you say. I don't rate Patel. I'm not sure about Defence, but I don't think IDS is the right choice. Would love to see Gisela get something.
Is this a fair summary of where we are at from a slow learner - me!
1. A majority of those who purport to understand the economics of the situation feel that it would be a disaster for the UK economy to end up without access to the Single Market. In particular because of the importance of the SM to our services industry which is the most successful and key part of our economy.
2. To maintain access to the single market means we have to maintain agreement to freedom of movement of EU people and that EU laws remain supreme.
So no control over immigration and no regaining of sovereignty if we maintain access to the Single Market. Unless we manage to carve out some sort of "special deal"? Which appears extremely unlikely to be achievable.
We have always been given to believe from PB threads and elsewhere that it was nigh on impossible to remove Corbyn as Labour leader against his will. Yet if today's vote of no confidence goes against him, it would seem that this has been achieved in just two days, with the process having been instigated by just one individual. It appears that Labour's leadership rules are not so impregnable after all.
He won't have to resign after the vote of no confidence and will not.
The far left has always hated the Labour party and have wanted to destroy it in order to build a new party of the proletariat that has no truck with capitalism or oppressive notions such as aspiration. The membership will now help the far left to achieve its aim.
He will be destroyed in the leadership election.
The art of playing with high stakes is to know when to check out. Now would be the perfect moment for Corbyn to strike a deal.
What deal can he strike?
The next general election is about four months away.
I hope so, would be great for my book, and my reputation at work since I said late 2016 or early 2017 election.
That's what pulling me to Team Boris - not something I expected to ever say.
If I was a tory MP that would be my price for support. What are you doing with Michael Gove? I'd like to see him as chancellor, with Leadsom first sec to treasury. Very strong team.
If Boris has sensible and stable people around him, his faults can be forgiven. And faults he certainly has.
If Team Boris does it - this would be my line-up
Gove - Chancellor Leadsom - First Sec Treasury Raab - Justice Sec Villiers - FSec Priti - Home Eustice - Defra IDS - Defence Fox - Health
Olive branches to Remainers
Hunt or Hammond - beefed up DTI May - DWP Greening - DCMS AN Other - DifD
I'd like to see Gisela and Hoey offered formal roles on the Brexit team negotiations.
So far as Grayling is concerned he should be kicked upstairs, downstairs, pretty much everywhere really.
I would have Osborne instead of Villiers as F Sec and I doubt if May would accept DWP. IDS is surely finished and she might well take Defence. I would leave Hunt at Health but then I am not a Fox fan either.
I'd keep May as Home Sec and Osborne as Foreign Sec as you say. I don't rate Patel. I'm not sure about Defence, but I don't think IDS is the right choice. Would love to see Gisela get something.
She's still Labour, right?
Surely she's a Tory in all but name, just like the vast majority of the PLP? It's just semantics these days.
Is this a fair summary of where we are at from my a slow learner - me!
1. A majority of those who purport to understand the economics of the situation feel that it would be a disaster for the UK economy to end up without access to the Single Market. In particular because of the importance of the SM to our services industry which is the most successful and key part of our economy.
2. To maintain access to the single market means we have to maintain agreement to freedom of movement of EU people and that EU laws remain supreme.
So no control over immigration and no regaining of sovereignty if we maintain access to the Single Market. Unless we manage to carve out some sort of "special deal"? Which appears extremely unlikely to be achievable.
EU law would only be applicable for single market trade. We would not be under ECJ jurisdiction for anything else.
Is this a fair summary of where we are at from a slow learner - me!
1. A majority of those who purport to understand the economics of the situation feel that it would be a disaster for the UK economy to end up without access to the Single Market. In particular because of the importance of the SM to our services industry which is the most successful and key part of our economy.
2. To maintain access to the single market means we have to maintain agreement to freedom of movement of EU people and that EU laws remain supreme.
So no control over immigration and no regaining of sovereignty if we maintain access to the Single Market. Unless we manage to carve out some sort of "special deal"? Which appears extremely unlikely to be achievable.
It's too early to tell, just 4 days after the result.
I think it's also important to differentiate between tariff-free access to the Single Market and what the normal non-EU Johnny Foreigner enjoys. Countries do sell into Europe without either an FTA or EU membership.
I realised this morning it is very likely to be May.
Why?
1. Emotions. A needy, anxious nation will want a sensible, comforting mother figure. May wins.
2. Economics. It is likely that peak post-Brexit chaos will be unfurling as the vote is held. Holidaymakers will be coming home with forex sticker shock. Home owners will be staring in dismay at house prices. Unemployment might be edging up, or shooting up. A recession is very possible.
In those probable circumstances Boris will get the blame, he just will (especially as he has written articles predicting that there would be NO Brexit chaos)
May wins.
The only means by which he can win is if he is right, the markets calm down, recession is averted, London banks don't start moving to the EU. But I don't see how that can happen, because no one is triggering Article 50 until October earliest. So the economic uncertainty is BOUND to continue.
May wins.
Boris is Cameron what Hestletine was to Thatcher. You don't kill the Queen/King and get away with it in the Tory party.
That's what pulling me to Team Boris - not something I expected to ever say.
If I was a tory MP that would be my price for support. What are you doing with Michael Gove? I'd like to see him as chancellor, with Leadsom first sec to treasury. Very strong team.
If Boris has sensible and stable people around him, his faults can be forgiven. And faults he certainly has.
If Team Boris does it - this would be my line-up
Gove - Chancellor Leadsom - First Sec Treasury Raab - Justice Sec Villiers - FSec Priti - Home Eustice - Defra IDS - Defence Fox - Health
Olive branches to Remainers
Hunt or Hammond - beefed up DTI May - DWP Greening - DCMS AN Other - DifD
I'd like to see Gisela and Hoey offered formal roles on the Brexit team negotiations.
So far as Grayling is concerned he should be kicked upstairs, downstairs, pretty much everywhere really.
I would have Osborne instead of Villiers as F Sec and I doubt if May would accept DWP. IDS is surely finished and she might well take Defence. I would leave Hunt at Health but then I am not a Fox fan either.
Osborne, I think, has to retire from the front bench along with Cameron. I agree about May though no reason, apart from the cash, that she should accept such a demotion. So perhaps she should also go to spend more time with whatever she does in private life. She has had a jolly good innings.
DfID, I'd like to see abolished as a department and its functions and, reduced, budget subsumed into the FCO, with a chunk of the cash going to the MoD. DCMS should have its budget slashed and perhaps go back to the Home office from which it was spawned.
Osborne remains the most talented politician in the country. Any leader would want not only access to his skills, experience and judgement but also to have him in the tent rather than out of it.
I can see the argument for reducing the number of departments but DfID should, for me, be given the specific target of reducing immigration by funding in theatre support, such as we currently have around Syria, wherever possible.
Gove as DPM & a less demanding brief so he can support Boris more. Party Chairman maybe? Leadsom as Chancellor. Redwood Chief Secretary to the Treasury (imagine having a competent Treasury team!). Davis - Home Sec. LORD Longworth - Trade and Industry Sec. Duncan-Smith - special project to implement universal credit - giving him a cabinet post just paints a target on his back for the angry. There's virtually no cabinet post that I can't see getting sneers of derision from the commentariat. Gisella Stuart - Europe Sec. (preferably 'on loan' from Labour rather than as some sort of 'coup') Teresa May - Foreign Sec. Julian Lewis & LORD (General Sir Mike) Jackson - Defence
By the way, I understand DFID actually doesn't spend the bulk of it's budget any more, it's been disbursed to other departments.
Redwood and competent - LOL - rather early to be on the juice?
Again a lecture from a Labour supporter on economic competetence - at least the crushing referendum defeat hasn't robbed you of your sense of humour.
Just seen Farage speaking at the EU Parliament. Shameful, utterly shameful.
The MP for Clacton should resign the whip.
What's he said now ?
He just insulted a load of MEPs to their faces. Stuff like "you've never had a proper job, never done a days work in your lives".
Even when we're out of the EU, he still represents Britain abroad. He makes us look like complete arseholes.
No wonder they're glad to see the back of us.
You do realise the European Parliament also has French quasi-fascists, Hungarian crypto-fascists, Greek full-on Fascists, numbers of demented German Trots, "Swedish democrats", True Finns, the Austrian Far Right, Italian Ur-Fascists, Geert Wilders' nastier friends, and Daniel Cohn Bendit (I'll let you Google).
The idea the clownish but sometimes quite perceptive Farage marks us out as uniquely unpleasant is quaint. But wrong.
Don't forget the smattering of other-worldy Greens who think humanity is a blight on the planet. Farage is relatively cuddly. They're booed him because they see populism as an existential threat, and they're not wrong.
I note that Sky only mentions the boos, not the regular applause or standing ovation from some at the end.
We have always been given to believe from PB threads and elsewhere that it was nigh on impossible to remove Corbyn as Labour leader against his will. Yet if today's vote of no confidence goes against him, it would seem that this has been achieved in just two days, with the process having been instigated by just one individual. It appears that Labour's leadership rules are not so impregnable after all.
He won't have to resign after the vote of no confidence and will not.
The far left has always hated the Labour party and have wanted to destroy it in order to build a new party of the proletariat that has no truck with capitalism or oppressive notions such as aspiration. The membership will now help the far left to achieve its aim.
You are taking as read Abbott et al's assertions that the membership is still overwhelmingly pro-Corbyn. Hers is an utter misreading of the situation. I know personally several Corbyn supporters from last year who are now unlikely to vote for him again. People have enough nous to know that Labour is lost if it goes on like this, and that it will not end so long as Corbyn is there. That desire for unity is now very palpable and transcends political divisions within the membership, save for the far left who couldn't care less about it.
Yes, those young people who propelled Corbyn into the leadership were quite attached to the EU, unlike him. I could see him winning, but maybe not as resoundingly as last time around. It's certainly not guaranteed. It also depends on his opponents, if they are middle of the road types who support welfare cuts and austerity then he probably will win.
Just seen Farage speaking at the EU Parliament. Shameful, utterly shameful.
The MP for Clacton should resign the whip.
What's he said now ?
He just insulted a load of MEPs to their faces. Stuff like "you've never had a proper job, never done a days work in your lives".
Even when we're out of the EU, he still represents Britain abroad. He makes us look like complete arseholes.
No wonder they're glad to see the back of us.
You do realise the European Parliament also has French quasi-fascists, Hungarian crypto-fascists, Greek full-on Fascists, numbers of demented German Trots, "Swedish democrats", True Finns, the Austrian Far Right, Italian Ur-Fascists, Geert Wilders' nastier friends, and Daniel Cohn Bendit (I'll let you Google).
The idea the clownish but sometimes quite perceptive Farage marks us out as uniquely unpleasant is quaint. But wrong.
I don't care about the French (etc) looking like arseholes. I do care about our reputation. Farage was rude without being clever. No subtlety. As I say, an embarrassment.
I realised this morning it is very likely to be May.
Why?
1. Emotions. A needy, anxious nation will want a sensible, comforting mother figure. May wins.
2. Economics. It is likely that peak post-Brexit chaos will be unfurling as the vote is held. Holidaymakers will be coming home with forex sticker shock. Home owners will be staring in dismay at house prices. Unemployment might be edging up, or shooting up. A recession is very possible.
In those probable circumstances Boris will get the blame, he just will (especially as he has written articles predicting that there would be NO Brexit chaos)
May wins.
The only means by which he can win is if he is right, the markets calm down, recession is averted, London banks don't start moving to the EU. But I don't see how that can happen, because no one is triggering Article 50 until October earliest. So the economic uncertainty is BOUND to continue.
May wins.
I'd imagine that's the calculation. But we weren't meant to win the referendum either.
Is this a fair summary of where we are at from my a slow learner - me!
1. A majority of those who purport to understand the economics of the situation feel that it would be a disaster for the UK economy to end up without access to the Single Market. In particular because of the importance of the SM to our services industry which is the most successful and key part of our economy.
2. To maintain access to the single market means we have to maintain agreement to freedom of movement of EU people and that EU laws remain supreme.
So no control over immigration and no regaining of sovereignty if we maintain access to the Single Market. Unless we manage to carve out some sort of "special deal"? Which appears extremely unlikely to be achievable.
Depends what happens when everybody's had their holidays in July/August and they get down to serious talking behind closed doors and not grandstanding for photo ops as they all are now.
Freedom of movement I would hope could be watered down to "freedom to work/stay if you've got a job offer and or could support yourself in country X to say 80% of national average wage. No benefits other than health and anything contributory like pension". I'd vote for that with free trade in a flash. Question is how grandstanding are all parties going to be about what "freedom of movement" can actually mean.
I think it was Cameron's complete failure to get anything approaching this that did for him. At present the Continentals are probably feeling too sore to look at watering down much but we'll see in a bit where we are all at. At least the negotiation will be taken seriously this time and not be an "essay crisis".
That's what pulling me to Team Boris - not something I expected to ever say.
If I was a tory MP that would be my price for support. What are you doing with Michael Gove? I'd like to see him as chancellor, with Leadsom first sec to treasury. Very strong team.
If Boris has sensible and stable people around him, his faults can be forgiven. And faults he certainly has.
If Team Boris does it - this would be my line-up
Gove - Chancellor Leadsom - First Sec Treasury Raab - Justice Sec Villiers - FSec Priti - Home Eustice - Defra IDS - Defence Fox - Health
Olive branches to Remainers
Hunt or Hammond - beefed up DTI May - DWP Greening - DCMS AN Other - DifD
I'd like to see Gisela and Hoey offered formal roles on the Brexit team negotiations.
So far as Grayling is concerned he should be kicked upstairs, downstairs, pretty much everywhere really.
I would have Osborne instead of Villiers as F Sec and I doubt if May would accept DWP. IDS is surely finished and she might well take Defence. I would leave Hunt at Health but then I am not a Fox fan either.
I'd keep May as Home Sec and Osborne as Foreign Sec as you say. I don't rate Patel. I'm not sure about Defence, but I don't think IDS is the right choice. Would love to see Gisela get something.
I don't think Gisela will leave Labour but if she wanted a job on the negotiating team for Europe it is surely hers.
Is this a fair summary of where we are at from my a slow learner - me!
1. A majority of those who purport to understand the economics of the situation feel that it would be a disaster for the UK economy to end up without access to the Single Market. In particular because of the importance of the SM to our services industry which is the most successful and key part of our economy.
2. To maintain access to the single market means we have to maintain agreement to freedom of movement of EU people and that EU laws remain supreme.
So no control over immigration and no regaining of sovereignty if we maintain access to the Single Market. Unless we manage to carve out some sort of "special deal"? Which appears extremely unlikely to be achievable.
EU law would only be applicable for single market trade. We would not be under ECJ jurisdiction for anything else.
Indeed things like the new EU General Data Protection Regulation we were preparing for no longer apply in EFTA and we stick with the present Data Protection Act
The Conservative Party has to choose between shafting Hartlepool over ' Immigration ' or shafting the City of London over the Financial Service Passport. It'll shaft Hartlepool. The referendum didn't address this debate. Leave lied about it to win. The big question in UK politics now is whether the Conservative leadership election now faces upto this choice or kicks the can further down the road.
Gove as DPM & a less demanding brief so he can support Boris more. Party Chairman maybe? Leadsom as Chancellor. Redwood Chief Secretary to the Treasury (imagine having a competent Treasury team!). Davis - Home Sec. LORD Longworth - Trade and Industry Sec. Duncan-Smith - special project to implement universal credit - giving him a cabinet post just paints a target on his back for the angry. There's virtually no cabinet post that I can't see getting sneers of derision from the commentariat. Gisella Stuart - Europe Sec. (preferably 'on loan' from Labour rather than as some sort of 'coup') Teresa May - Foreign Sec. Julian Lewis & LORD (General Sir Mike) Jackson - Defence
By the way, I understand DFID actually doesn't spend the bulk of it's budget any more, it's been disbursed to other departments.
Redwood and competent - LOL - rather early to be on the juice?
Redwood is crap at presentation, which has damaged his career. But he's extremely strong on economics. Therefore he shouldn't be Chancellor, but is criminally wasted without a supporting role. Osborne is an economic pygmie by comparison.
Comments
Fargage replied, none of you have ever done a proper job in your lives or worked in business or worked in trade or indeed ever created a job....
Then they all booed him.
Incidentally, current writing plans (as I sort of mentioned that earlier) is for another short story in an anthology later this year (Explorations - a sci-fi shindig) and perhaps another novel set in the Bane of Souls/Journey to Altmortis world.
http://order-order.com/2016/06/28/queen-smiling/
I think that's fewer supporters than are need to fill the Shadow Cabinet...
I can well see why the European Parliament is keen to see the back of him though.
We're bloody minded when threatened. I've rarely felt more proud than on Friday morning. We poked The Establishment in the eye and flicked two fingers at the EU panjorams.
"Understand that the far left hates Labour more than the Tories, Ukip or BNP, and Corbyn's desperate attempts to cling on will make sense"
The far left has always hated the Labour party and have wanted to destroy it in order to build a new party of the proletariat that has no truck with capitalism or oppressive notions such as aspiration. The membership will now help the far left to achieve its aim.
The art of playing with high stakes is to know when to check out. Now would be the perfect moment for Corbyn to strike a deal.
Gove as FSec would be interesting. I liked Villiers a lot seeing her on the TV - very calm, and dealing with the NI Office must be invaluable experience.
I don't like Digby - but he'd be worth bringing back in to my beefed up DTI.
EU as overseas aid is a cracker
1) No Govt.
2) No main opposition (though in fairness we might have two by the end of the week).
3) Leanne Wood wittering about Welsh independence (is she like the Bourbons "learnt nothing and forgotten nothing"?). I can but presume she's inhabiting a world where Prime Minister Miliband bestrides Europe like a colossus and Wales's remainiest areas of Cardiff, Vale of Glamorgan, and Monmouthshire are all Nationalist hotbeds.
Still Nicola Sturgeon is looking the part, and England's football team is unutterably hopeless so plus ca change and all that.
On a more serious note I noted a post by Patrick (I think, apols if it wasn't) around breakfast time saying everyone in the country of whatever background (I paraphrase) should be respected and be safe I would echo that wholeheartedly.
I can certainly see it waving through £350 million extra a week for the NHS and ensuring no cuts in public spending.
Mr. Dave, cheers for that.
One thing is clear, after all this is over, Labour need to change the rules quick smart to make the NCV binding and also bin the £3 rule, which has been an unmitigated disaster for the party.
I should imagine they will look to create a new system based on that used by the Conservatives, which seems more sensible to me (although I don't purport to be an expert).
My Boris cabinet:
Gove as DPM & a less demanding brief so he can support Boris more. Party Chairman maybe?
Leadsom as Chancellor. Redwood Chief Secretary to the Treasury (imagine having a competent Treasury team!).
Davis - Home Sec.
LORD Longworth - Trade and Industry Sec.
Duncan-Smith - special project to implement universal credit - giving him a cabinet post just paints a target on his back for the angry. There's virtually no cabinet post that I can't see getting sneers of derision from the commentariat.
Gisella Stuart - Europe Sec. (preferably 'on loan' from Labour rather than as some sort of 'coup')
Teresa May - Foreign Sec.
Julian Lewis & LORD (General Sir Mike) Jackson - Defence
By the way, I understand DFID actually doesn't spend the bulk of it's budget any more, it's been disbursed to other departments.
(1) Lord Salisbury is the most recent PM to have a beard, meaning there has not been a bearded resident of 10 Downing Street for 114 years.
(2) When Scott Crabbe played for Hearts, the fans would chant:
"Scott Crabbe, Scott Crabbe
Scott Crabbe, Scott Crabbe"
which used to sound like:
"Scott Crabbe's got crabs
Scott Crabbe's got crabs"
I would have Osborne instead of Villiers as F Sec and I doubt if May would accept DWP. IDS is surely finished and she might well take Defence. I would leave Hunt at Health but then I am not a Fox fan either.
#Priti4HomeSec
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzBq0n8dxFQ
Ker-Ching!!!
The next general election is about four months away.
DfID, I'd like to see abolished as a department and its functions and, reduced, budget subsumed into the FCO, with a chunk of the cash going to the MoD. DCMS should have its budget slashed and perhaps go back to the Home office from which it was spawned.
Anyway, I must be off.
1. A majority of those who purport to understand the economics of the situation feel that it would be a disaster for the UK economy to end up without access to the Single Market. In particular because of the importance of the SM to our services industry which is the most successful and key part of our economy.
2. To maintain access to the single market means we have to maintain agreement to freedom of movement of EU people and that EU laws remain supreme.
So no control over immigration and no regaining of sovereignty if we maintain access to the Single Market. Unless we manage to carve out some sort of "special deal"? Which appears extremely unlikely to be achievable.
I think it's also important to differentiate between tariff-free access to the Single Market and what the normal non-EU Johnny Foreigner enjoys. Countries do sell into Europe without either an FTA or EU membership.
I can see the argument for reducing the number of departments but DfID should, for me, be given the specific target of reducing immigration by funding in theatre support, such as we currently have around Syria, wherever possible.
There isn't one opinion in the EU Parly here.
Freedom of movement I would hope could be watered down to "freedom to work/stay if you've got a job offer and or could support yourself in country X to say 80% of national average wage. No benefits other than health and anything contributory like pension". I'd vote for that with free trade in a flash. Question is how grandstanding are all parties going to be about what "freedom of movement" can actually mean.
I think it was Cameron's complete failure to get anything approaching this that did for him. At present the Continentals are probably feeling too sore to look at watering down much but we'll see in a bit where we are all at. At least the negotiation will be taken seriously this time and not be an "essay crisis".
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/747702282024673280