Kind of a stupid quote. Those are the three options out there and always have been. I can't actually think of any other possible model than those.
Which of the "only 3 possible models" have vote Leave come out in favour of? Or if they haven't (because we don't get to make that choice), presumably they've spelt out in detail what each of these models means for the UK going forward? Can't be that difficult, there's only 3 to cover.
' “Labour has scrapped Section 28, which was introduced by the Conservatives to stop schools promoting alternative sexual lifestyles such as homosexuality to children as young as seven years old.
“Labour reduced the age of consent for homosexuality from 18 to 16, allowing schoolchildren to be propositioned for homosexual relationships.”
In 2005 these leaflets were aimed at the Muslim voters in the constituency.
Other campaign literature, targeted at white areas, had a strong anti-immigration theme. '
I found it lazy and thoughtless - the over-used trope of 'post-truth politics' is driving me mental at the moment.
Both major UK parties are to blame for failing to ensure that the impact of mass migration did not damage the working poor (or however you want to classify them).
They've had years to do so, and did not. Further (and this has continued right through the campaign), a large section of those who have prospered continue to just shriek 'racist' at every conceivable opportunity.
This is not post-truth politics. It's this-is-what-happens-when-you-ignore-half-your-voters politics.
In conclusion, I'd like to say: this is not rocket science, for fuck's sake.
CLAPS
Huh
. Migrants do the jobs that the indigenous Brits won't.
The usual casual bigotry and racism.
Migrants do the jobs for lower pay and under worse conditions and in a more servile manner is what you should have said.
Thats how you categorise it. Ask the farmers in Norfolk who cannot get brits to pull the crops..
Leave is full of lies, but so are Remain. The difference is that Leave are xenophobic in many of the things they say. Go and talk to some leavers on the street and all they say is that they want to stop immigration/ kick migrants out.. That's it.. its a one subject agenda.
So who did the Norfolk farmers get to pull the crops ten or twenty years ago ?
I suppose the Norfolk working class would now be classified as wicked layabouts for wanting enough wages to pay the rent on a proper house instead of living a dozen to a wooden hut.
Yes, I've done all those crap jobs - cleaning, food processing, warehouses, licking envelopes etc - ba
Indeed.
There was also in the 1980s and 1990s far greater potential for economic mobility and for the young and/or low paid to buy a house.
And much stronger trade unions. Time to go back?
Lets remove the obligation to ballot workers?
Show of hands lads! That's it we're going on strike.
Lets get the nett cost of being in the EU (£140m per week) into perspective - this cost is about £2 a week for the each of the approx 70 million of us living in the UK. I do not buy the Sun, Express or Daily Mail but I am told the cost per week for taking any of these "admirable organs" is considerably more than this. So why are some people so upset about the amount of money we are currently paying to the EU? I wonder how many new hospitals could be built with the amount of money that people could save if they stopped buying these newspapers?
Let's actually do the real maths. The net contribution plus tariffs is about £190m per week, we have 32m people in work in the country. That's £5.93 per week or £300 per year. Which equates to 2p on the basic rate of tax for someone earning the national average wage.
If the government decided to pay up our EU membership rather than borrow the money we would have to add a minimum of 2p on income tax, but really more like 4p and then have the EU give most of it away to farmers to keep their land empty.
OK but if the BBC's figures are correct you're figures are wrong too: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35943216 My point is valid whichever basis is used for the calculation. The current cost of the UK's membership of the EU is actually very good value from purely an economic viewpoint. Leaving the EU will obviously be disastrous for the UK economy along with all the ensuing consequences.
It won't 'obviously be disastrous' - even the Treasury forecast shows GDP growth by 2018 if there's Brexit (Table 2c, p46).
The IMF are saying growth over the next three years of 1.9, -0.8 and 1.1. I think 'disastrous' might be pitching it a tad high.
The consensus over the long haul (and I don't believe any model that goes out longer than five years, so take this with a massive grain of salt) is that by 2030, we'll have forgone around 6-8% of GDP growth, so essentially growth will be around 0.6-0.8% p.a. lower than otherwise. To be clear it's not implying economic shrinkage; it's a choice between being rich and richer.
To repeat though; we failed to forecast the ERM, Euro, .com bubble, CDS crash etc. DYR.
@SamCoatesTimes: Lady Warsi to The Times: “Are we prepared to tell lies, to spread hate and xenophobia just to win a campaign? For me that’s a step too far.”
The Baroness is for turning!
Playbook chapter 2
[Drumroll] "Unveil the sleepers and double-agents!"
yawn...
You would think they would at least try and make sure people knew they were on the Leave side before they defected though.
It's good to see so many on here now convinced of the importance of high wages and good working conditions for UK workers. Time to revisit anti-union legislation?
Name and explain a specific trade union legislation that you are thinking of please.Apart from the most recent ones I'll admit they were unnecessary.
It's good to see so many on here now convinced of the importance of high wages and good working conditions for UK workers. Time to revisit anti-union legislation?
Stop trolling SO . More seriously, do you think it would help? My knowledge of trades union legislation is shocking.
One of the reasons people end up in low pay, poor condition jobs is that unions have been emasculated in this country.
I found it lazy and thoughtless - the over-used trope of 'post-truth politics' is driving me mental at the moment.
Both major UK parties are to blame for failing to ensure that the impact of mass migration did not damage the working poor (or however you want to classify them).
They've had years to do so, and did not. Further (and this has continued right through the campaign), a large section of those who have prospered continue to just shriek 'racist' at every conceivable opportunity.
This is not post-truth politics. It's this-is-what-happens-when-you-ignore-half-your-voters politics.
In conclusion, I'd like to say: this is not rocket science, for fuck's sake.
CLAPS
Huh
. Migrants do the jobs that the indigenous Brits won't.
The usual casual bigotry and racism.
Migrants do the jobs for lower pay and under worse conditions and in a more servile manner is what you should have said.
Thats how you categorise it. Ask the farmers in Norfolk who cannot get brits to pull the crops..
Leave is full of lies, but so are Remain. The difference is that Leave are xenophobic in many of the things they say. Go and talk to some leavers on the street and all they say is that they want to stop immigration/ kick migrants out.. That's it.. its a one subject agenda.
So who did the Norfolk farmers get to pull the crops ten or twenty years ago ?
I suppose the Norfolk working class would now be classified as wicked layabouts for wanting enough wages to pay the rent on a proper house instead of living a dozen to a wooden hut.
It's a fair point. But what it also means is higher prices, or more imports and no jobs.
Sounds like we also need stronger trade unions.
Or it could mean higher labour costs leading to more innovation and investment (what happened in the industrial revolution) and therefore cheaper food and higher productivity.
Kind of a stupid quote. Those are the three options out there and always have been. I can't actually think of any other possible model than those.
Which of the "only 3 possible models" have vote Leave come out in favour of? Or if they haven't (because we don't get to make that choice), presumably they've spelt out in detail what each of these models means for the UK going forward? Can't be that difficult, there's only 3 to cover.
Yes. They have said they will negotiate a free trade agreement.
Personally I was always opposed to this as I favour the Norway option but they have been clear enough in what course they would take whether I like it or not.
Kind of a stupid quote. Those are the three options out there and always have been. I can't actually think of any other possible model than those.
Which of the "only 3 possible models" have vote Leave come out in favour of? Or if they haven't (because we don't get to make that choice), presumably they've spelt out in detail what each of these models means for the UK going forward? Can't be that difficult, there's only 3 to cover.
With respect alex, that's impossible to answer. It's not us laying down terms to the EU. If you read the NYT article I linked earlier, some options may not even be on the table.
I would be the first to cry 'foul' if Vote Leave were saying what we'd get out of article 50 negotiations.
Kind of a stupid quote. Those are the three options out there and always have been. I can't actually think of any other possible model than those.
Switzerland does not fit into any of those three models.
Yes it does,. It negotiates a whole series of bilateral free trade agreements.
It negotiates a whole series of bilateral agreements, but they go way way way beyond free trade. Switzerland is as possibly close to being a member of the EU without actually joining.
From Wiki:
Free movement of people Air traffic Road traffic Agriculture Technical trade barriers Public procurement Science
Security and asylum and Schengen membership Cooperation in fraud pursuits Final stipulations in open questions about agriculture, environment, media, education, care of the elderly, statistics and services.
I'm not sure we have the bargaining power necessary to emulate Switzerland's position. Switzerland genuinely have their cake and eat it.
@SamCoatesTimes: Lady Warsi to The Times: “Are we prepared to tell lies, to spread hate and xenophobia just to win a campaign? For me that’s a step too far.”
The Baroness is for turning!
Playbook chapter 2
[Drumroll] "Unveil the sleepers and double-agents!"
yawn...
You would think they would at least try and make sure people knew they were on the Leave side before they defected though.
lol at The Times front page. What are they on about? I didn't even know Warsi had gone to the Lords, I thought she was off quangoing.
. Migrants do the jobs that the indigenous Brits won't.
The usual casual bigotry and racism.
Migrants do the jobs for lower pay and under worse conditions and in a more servile manner is what you should have said.
Thats how you categorise it. Ask the farmers in Norfolk who cannot get brits to pull the crops..
Leave is full of lies, but so are Remain. The difference is that Leave are xenophobic in many of the things they say. Go and talk to some leavers on the street and all they say is that they want to stop immigration/ kick migrants out.. That's it.. its a one subject agenda.
So who did the Norfolk farmers get to pull the crops ten or twenty years ago ?
I suppose the Norfolk working class would now be classified as wicked layabouts for wanting enough wages to pay the rent on a proper house instead of living a dozen to a wooden hut.
Yes, I've done all those crap jobs - cleaning, food processing, warehouses, licking envelopes etc - back in the 80s/90s. All my workmates then were Englishspeak pigeon English. Or more likely, who all speak eg Portuguese, or Slavic, or whatever, and therefore could talk to each other in their mother tongue. I think it's unfair to malign Brits who don't want those working conditions.
Indeed.
There was also in the 1980s and 1990s far greater potential for economic mobility and for the young and/or low paid to buy a house.
And much stronger trade unions. Time to go back?
Which trade unions though - the ones of yesteryear weren't supporters of unlimited immigration as they knew it would have a detrimental effect on their members. The trade unions of today think differently.
As to the balance of capital and labour the problem is both sides are being robbed by the parasitical executive class.
It's good to see so many on here now convinced of the importance of high wages and good working conditions for UK workers. Time to revisit anti-union legislation?
Stop trolling SO . More seriously, do you think it would help? My knowledge of trades union legislation is shocking.
One of the reasons people end up in low pay, poor condition jobs is that unions have been emasculated in this country.
Which Trade Union law would you remove?
The one passed this year, for a start.
So you only objected to trade union legislation for the last 47 days? You talk about the eighties and going back to that. So please enlighten us to this egregious anti trade union legislation that was passed.
I found it lazy and thoughtless - the over-used trope of 'post-truth politics' is driving me mental at the moment.
Both major UK parties are to blame for failing to ensure that the impact of mass migration did not damage the working poor (or however you want to classify them).
They've had years to do so, and did not. Further (and this has continued right through the campaign), a large section of those who have prospered continue to just shriek 'racist' at every conceivable opportunity.
This is not post-truth politics. It's this-is-what-happens-when-you-ignore-half-your-voters politics.
In conclusion, I'd like to say: this is not rocket science, for fuck's sake.
CLAPS
Huh
. Migrants do the jobs that the indigenous Brits won't.
The usual casual bigotry and racism.
Migrants do the jobs for lower pay and under worse conditions and in a more servile manner is what you should have said.
Thats how you categorise it. Ask the farmers in Norfolk who cannot get brits to pull the crops..
Leave is full of lies, but so are Remain. The difference is that Leave are xenophobic in many of the things they say. Go and talk to some leavers on the street and all they say is that they want to stop immigration/ kick migrants out.. That's it.. its a one subject agenda.
So who did the Norfolk farmers get to pull the crops ten or twenty years ago ?
I suppose the Norfolk working class would now be classified as wicked layabouts for wanting enough wages to pay the rent on a proper house instead of living a dozen to a wooden hut.
It's a fair point. But what it also means is higher prices, or more imports and no jobs.
Sounds like we also need stronger trade unions.
Or it could mean higher labour costs leading to more innovation and investment (what happened in the industrial revolution) and therefore cheaper food and higher productivity.
Kind of a stupid quote. Those are the three options out there and always have been. I can't actually think of any other possible model than those.
Switzerland does not fit into any of those three models.
Yes it does,. It negotiates a whole series of bilateral free trade agreements.
It negotiates a whole series of bilateral agreements, but they go way way way beyond free trade. Switzerland is as possibly close to being a member of the EU without actually joining.
From Wiki:
Free movement of people Air traffic Road traffic Agriculture Technical trade barriers Public procurement Science
Security and asylum and Schengen membership Cooperation in fraud pursuits Final stipulations in open questions about agriculture, environment, media, education, care of the elderly, statistics and services.
I'm not sure we have the bargaining power necessary to emulate Switzerland's position. Switzerland genuinely have their cake and eat it.
That is Switzerland's choice. Of course we would not want many of those agreements so it is not a problem for us.
Corbyn's gift to leave makes the front page of the DT.
Louise Mensch says the Remain campaign have put a copyright infringement claim on the Corbyn/marr interview video.
Sounds like a lie to me. Remain do not own the copyright.
Talking of lies.......Camerons best line of the evening "I'm sure there are arguments for LEAVING but it would be a tragedy if the UK voted on three things that are COMPLETELY untrue. Turkey are NOT joining the EU. The UK are NOT joining a EU army and we do NOT pay £350 million to the EU each week"
Kind of a stupid quote. Those are the three options out there and always have been. I can't actually think of any other possible model than those.
Switzerland does not fit into any of those three models.
Yes it does,. It negotiates a whole series of bilateral free trade agreements.
It's generally reckoned in the EU that the Swiss arrangement was a mistake because it doesn't include any supranational oversight, unlike the EEA. In any case Switzerland and the EU are not talking to each other
So I think those three options are about right. Senior members of the French and German governments (Macron and Schaeuble) have both talked about qualifying EEA membership for Britain. That may just be posturing. Also the FTA option may be closer to the Korean model than the Canadian one.
It's good to see so many on here now convinced of the importance of high wages and good working conditions for UK workers. Time to revisit anti-union legislation?
It isn't a question of unions or no unions. It is a question of restricting the labour market which in turn allows wages to rise.
If you have a limited supply of housing etc, but then allow an unlimited supply of labour something is going to brake.
Corbyn's gift to leave makes the front page of the DT.
Louise Mensch says the Remain campaign have put a copyright infringement claim on the Corbyn/marr interview video.
Sounds like a lie to me. Remain do not own the copyright.
Talking of lies.......Camerons best line of the evening "I'm sure there are arguments for Leaving but it would be a tragedy if the UK voted on three things that are COMPLETELY untrue. Turkey are NOT joining the EU. The UK are not joining a EU army and we do NOT pay £350 million to the EU each week"
Expect to hear it repeated more than once!
At least the Times is impartial enough to include Jeremy's singular contribution to the debate. I bet the WWC Labour folk are lapping that up.
Kind of a stupid quote. Those are the three options out there and always have been. I can't actually think of any other possible model than those.
Switzerland does not fit into any of those three models.
Yes it does,. It negotiates a whole series of bilateral free trade agreements.
It's generally reckoned in the EU that the Swiss arrangement was a mistake because it doesn't include any supranational oversight, unlike the EEA. In any case Switzerland and the EU are not talking to each other
So I think those three options are about right. Senior members of the French and German governments (Macron and Schaeuble) have both talked about qualifying EEA membership for Britain. That may just be posturing. Also the FTA option may be closer to the Korean model than the Canadian one.
Yes, i could see why they wouldnt want to replicate it. Switzerland obviously have better negotiators than the EU does. Can we hire them?
I must say, when I hear the usual social justice warriors whining about what Orban in Hungary or PiS in Poland is getting up to, part of me wishes those governments on. Imagine their temerity, reflecting public opinion!
This is the classy way to seek a Remain vote, not Schaeuble's ridiculous threats.
Cameron tonight showed that Remain is a one trick pony - 'it's the economy, stupid'. If you don't think the economy is currently working for your benefit then Remain offers you nothing.
He managed to extend his inability to do anything about EU migration into an admission that he is doing a fairly crap job in controlling non-EU migration. Even Corbyn didn't manage that this morning.
And he looked shifty as hell in his squirming and refusal to give a straight answer to the question of vetoing Turkish membership.
I think Remain will edge it, but Cameron's performance tonight won't have gained them votes.
Appreciate it was on hours ago but I've just finished watching it as live.
Baku GP. What a disappointing race! Looked like a great setup after bumpy practice and qualifying, ended us as good amount of overtaking but nob all bumpy bumpy. To give my brother/sister-in-law credit, when I left their house at teatime they didn't give anything away (they'd watched live) when I said my father's day treat later was to banish the childs to bed and watch the race with a beer...
Corbyn's gift to leave makes the front page of the DT.
Louise Mensch says the Remain campaign have put a copyright infringement claim on the Corbyn/marr interview video.
Sounds like a lie to me. Remain do not own the copyright.
Talking of lies.......Camerons best line of the evening "I'm sure there are arguments for LEAVING but it would be a tragedy if the UK voted on three things that are COMPLETELY untrue. Turkey are NOT joining the EU. The UK are NOT joining a EU army and we do NOT pay £350 million to the EU each week"
Expect to hear it repeated more than once!
Yep, great stuff. Three days of this and economic meltdown forecasts are now lined up no doubt.
@DPJHodges: No longer a debate about whether Brexit has becomea racist campaign. Only question is how wide and deep the racism goes.
People who call me my mum and brother racist really need to fuck off.
He is calling the campaign racist.
How can an inanimate object be racist? It's risible really. It's just a scattergun approach. Racist this, racist that, blah-de-fucking-blah.
There's just such a poverty of thought behind the whole approach. Mind you, carry on Dan. I'm sure you're doing sterling work for Brexit, if you did but know it.
The 'Breaking Point' poster was the "breaking point".
Which PBer was it who claimed Farage was a deep sleeper agent for Remain?
Farage isn't a sleeper agent for REMAIN. Farage is in it for Farage...
Corbyn's a sleeper for leave,have you seen the telegraph and sun.
Jezza has been for LEAVE for over 40 years. He's having to toe the party line right now but I'll never be convinced he's anything other than a committed LEAVER.
I found it lazy and thoughtless - the over-used trope of 'post-truth politics' is driving me mental at the moment.
Both major UK parties are to blame for failing to ensure that the impact of mass migration did not damage the working poor (or however you want to classify them).
They've had years to do so, and did not. Further (and this has continued right through the campaign), a large section of those who have prospered continue to just shriek 'racist' at every conceivable opportunity.
This is not post-truth politics. It's this-is-what-happens-when-you-ignore-half-your-voters politics.
In conclusion, I'd like to say: this is not rocket science, for fuck's sake.
CLAPS
Huh
. Migrants do the jobs that the indigenous Brits won't.
The usual casual bigotry and racism.
Migrants do the jobs for lower pay and under worse conditions and in a more servile manner is what you should have said.
Thats how you categorise it. Ask the farmers in Norfolk who cannot get brits to pull the crops..
Leave is full of lies, but so are Remain. The difference is that Leave are xenophobic in many of the things they say. Go and talk to some leavers on the street and all they say is that they want to stop immigration/ kick migrants out.. That's it.. its a one subject agenda.
REMAIN are RACISTS because the present EU immigration rules favour predominantly white EU countries over predominantly non-white non-EU countries.
RACIST REMAINERS!
Something occurred to me reading this.
Given how successful trump is with his adjective insult campaign, shouldn't Racist Remainers be the clarion call of the Leave campaign. It certainly seems to have traction. Little Marco, Lyin' Ted and Low Energy Jeb certainly seemed to work.
Cameron tonight showed that Remain is a one trick pony - 'it's the economy, stupid'. If you don't think the economy is currently working for your benefit then Remain offers you nothing.
He managed to extend his inability to do anything about EU migration into an admission that he is doing a fairly crap job in controlling non-EU migration. Even Corbyn didn't manage that this morning.
And he looked shifty as hell in his squirming and refusal to give a straight answer to the question of vetoing Turkish membership.
I think Remain will edge it, but Cameron's performance tonight won't have gained them votes.
Good night all.
"If you don't think the economy is currently working for your benefit then Remain offers you nothing."
...except Leave might be worse. You have to be really down on your luck for there not to be a "worse" in your early morning nightmares.
The 'Breaking Point' poster was the "breaking point".
Which PBer was it who claimed Farage was a deep sleeper agent for Remain?
Farage isn't a sleeper agent for REMAIN. Farage is in it for Farage...
Corbyn's a sleeper for leave,have you seen the telegraph and sun.
Given his history...
Jezza will vote LEAVE in the privacy of the polling booth I'm convinced of it.
PaRoy policy is for remain, and the party machine is advocating a "sceptical but on balance in favour" position which with our voters is the best we can. But it seems clear that the membership is split and yes that means people working for the party position disagreeing in the ballot box.
. Migrants do the jobs that the indigenous Brits won't.
The usual casual bigotry and racism.
Migrants do the jobs for lower pay and under worse conditions and in a more servile manner is what you should have said.
Thats how you categorise it. Ask the farmers in Norfolk who cannot get brits to pull the crops..
Leave is full of lies, but so are Remain. The difference is that Leave are xenophobic in many of the things they say. Go and talk to some leavers on the street and all they say is that they want to stop immigration/ kick migrants out.. That's it.. its a one subject agenda.
So who did the Norfolk farmers get to pull the crops ten or twenty years ago ?
I suppose the Norfolk working class would now be classified as wicked layabouts for wanting enough wages to pay the rent on a proper house instead of living a dozen to a wooden hut.
It's a fair point. But what it also means is higher prices, or more imports and no jobs.
Sounds like we also need stronger trade unions.
Or it could mean higher labour costs leading to more innovation and investment (what happened in the industrial revolution) and therefore cheaper food and higher productivity.
And so fewer jobs.
The British economy creates enough wealth for it to 'carry' a certain level of lower than average productivity workers and a certain level of non-workers.
The problem is its not creating enough wealth at present to carry all the low productivity workers and non-workers.
Solutions are:
Reduce the number of non-workers - difficult with an ageing population
Increase average productivity - difficult if there are no restrictions on low productivity immigrants
Yes i am sure they are in absolute Turmoil as Lord Warsi changes her mind
I assume Remain were equally in turmoil when a recent Head of The Armed Forces changed his mind.
The difference being A) He actually had a proper job ( safe guarding 60+ million people) The Times are talking B*ll*cks and neither side was greatly fussed one way or the other.
Kind of a stupid quote. Those are the three options out there and always have been. I can't actually think of any other possible model than those.
Switzerland does not fit into any of those three models.
Yes it does,. It negotiates a whole series of bilateral free trade agreements.
It's generally reckoned in the EU that the Swiss arrangement was a mistake because it doesn't include any supranational oversight, unlike the EEA. In any case Switzerland and the EU are not talking to each other
So I think those three options are about right. Senior members of the French and German governments (Macron and Schaeuble) have both talked about qualifying EEA membership for Britain. That may just be posturing. Also the FTA option may be closer to the Korean model than the Canadian one.
Yes, i could see why they wouldnt want to replicate it. Switzerland obviously have better negotiators than the EU does. Can we hire them?
I'm not sure about that. Negotiators negotiate. The Swiss ones aren't doing that because they have seriously pissed off both the Germans with discriminatory taxation and a lack of a legal framework under which Germany can sell goods into Switzerland and also all of East Europe because of their discriminatory immigration policy. Eastern Europe makes up half the voting states in the EU, don't appreciate being seen as second class countries and having got into the EU the hard way, don't buy into the "plucky little Switzerland" meme.
I found it lazy and thoughtless - the over-used trope of 'post-truth politics' is driving me mental at the moment.
Both major UK parties are to blame for failing to ensure that the impact of mass migration did not damage the working poor (or however you want to classify them).
They've had years to do so, and did not. Further (and this has continued right through the campaign), a large section of those who have prospered continue to just shriek 'racist' at every conceivable opportunity.
This is not post-truth politics. It's this-is-what-happens-when-you-ignore-half-your-voters politics.
In conclusion, I'd like to say: this is not rocket science, for fuck's sake.
CLAPS
Huh
. Migrants do the jobs that the indigenous Brits won't.
The usual casual bigotry and racism.
Migrants do the jobs for lower pay and under worse conditions and in a more servile manner is what you should have said.
Thats how you categorise it. Ask the farmers in Norfolk who cannot get brits to pull the crops..
Leave is full of lies, but so are Remain. The difference is that Leave are xenophobic in many of the things they say. Go and talk to some leavers on the street and all they say is that they want to stop immigration/ kick migrants out.. That's it.. its a one subject agenda.
REMAIN are RACISTS because the present EU immigration rules favour predominantly white EU countries over predominantly non-white non-EU countries.
RACIST REMAINERS!
Something occurred to me reading this.
Given how successful trump is with his adjective insult campaign, shouldn't Racist Remainers be the clarion call of the Leave campaign. It certainly seems to have traction. Little Marco, Lyin' Ted and Low Energy Jeb certainly seemed to work.
It might have some traction except:
1) accusing someone of being racist is usually a sign of a lost argument
2) rather like the Little Englander jibe it is likely to backfire. Many Britons would prefer migrants to be of white Christian heritage.
I found it lazy and thoughtless - the over-used trope of 'post-truth politics' is driving me mental at the moment.
Both major UK parties are to blame for failing to ensure that the impact of mass migration did not damage the working poor (or however you want to classify them).
They've had years to do so, and did not. Further (and this has continued right through the campaign), a large section of those who have prospered continue to just shriek 'racist' at every conceivable opportunity.
This is not post-truth politics. It's this-is-what-happens-when-you-ignore-half-your-voters politics.
In conclusion, I'd like to say: this is not rocket science, for fuck's sake.
CLAPS
Huh
. Migrants do the jobs that the indigenous Brits won't.
The usual casual bigotry and racism.
Migrants do the jobs for lower pay and under worse conditions and in a more servile manner is what you should have said.
Thats how you categorise it. Ask the farmers in Norfolk who cannot get brits to pull the crops..
Leave is full of lies, but so are Remain. The difference is that Leave are xenophobic in many of the things they say. Go and talk to some leavers on the street and all they say is that they want to stop immigration/ kick migrants out.. That's it.. its a one subject agenda.
REMAIN are RACISTS because the present EU immigration rules favour predominantly white EU countries over predominantly non-white non-EU countries.
RACIST REMAINERS!
Something occurred to me reading this.
Given how successful trump is with his adjective insult campaign, shouldn't Racist Remainers be the clarion call of the Leave campaign. It certainly seems to have traction. Little Marco, Lyin' Ted and Low Energy Jeb certainly seemed to work.
It's good to see so many on here now convinced of the importance of high wages and good working conditions for UK workers. Time to revisit anti-union legislation?
It isn't a question of unions or no unions. It is a question of restricting the labour market which in turn allows wages to rise.
If you have a limited supply of housing etc, but then allow an unlimited supply of labour something is going to brake.
I was always fascinated by the left's obsession with Maggie's "anti trade union legislation".
It really wasnt very anti, except anti organisations causing industrial unrest without good cause or regard to their actions.
The first piece of legislation was in 1980. It tightened what could be considered lawful picketing (ie not being allowed to threaten to slit the throats of anyone who crossed the picket line), and a ballot to prevent 'closed shop' work places, unless 80% approved.
Those Tory bas**ards. They even went further with their fascist regime. In 1982 they passed a laws that : * unlawful to sack someone for not being a member of a union. * removal of civil immunity for unlawful industrial action * immunity only applies to lawful trade disputes between workers and their employers. No secondary action.
In 1984 she passed a law requiring a union to hold a secret ballot as to whether they go on strike. How did she sleep at night?
It took a Tory to democratise the trade union movement.
Cameron tonight showed that Remain is a one trick pony - 'it's the economy, stupid'. If you don't think the economy is currently working for your benefit then Remain offers you nothing.
He managed to extend his inability to do anything about EU migration into an admission that he is doing a fairly crap job in controlling non-EU migration. Even Corbyn didn't manage that this morning.
And he looked shifty as hell in his squirming and refusal to give a straight answer to the question of vetoing Turkish membership.
I think Remain will edge it, but Cameron's performance tonight won't have gained them votes.
Good night all.
"If you don't think the economy is currently working for your benefit then Remain offers you nothing."
...except Leave might be worse. You have to be really down on your luck for there not to be a "worse" in your early morning nightmares.
Its direction of travel.
If things have been getting worse for you for several years you will expect things to continue to do so if nothing changes.
Comments
Oops.. I'll try not to do that on the 23rd.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/06/19/the-brutal-numbers-behind-a-very-bad-month-for-donald-trump/
' “Labour has scrapped Section 28, which was introduced by the Conservatives to stop schools promoting alternative sexual lifestyles such as homosexuality to children as young as seven years old.
“Labour reduced the age of consent for homosexuality from 18 to 16, allowing schoolchildren to be propositioned for homosexual relationships.”
In 2005 these leaflets were aimed at the Muslim voters in the constituency.
Other campaign literature, targeted at white areas, had a strong anti-immigration theme. '
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2007/07/11/homophobic-leaflet-used-again-by-tory-candidate/
Show of hands lads!
That's it we're going on strike.
The consensus over the long haul (and I don't believe any model that goes out longer than five years, so take this with a massive grain of salt) is that by 2030, we'll have forgone around 6-8% of GDP growth, so essentially growth will be around 0.6-0.8% p.a. lower than otherwise. To be clear it's not implying economic shrinkage; it's a choice between being rich and richer.
To repeat though; we failed to forecast the ERM, Euro, .com bubble, CDS crash etc. DYR.
Personally I was always opposed to this as I favour the Norway option but they have been clear enough in what course they would take whether I like it or not.
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/744639690326802432
I would be the first to cry 'foul' if Vote Leave were saying what we'd get out of article 50 negotiations.
From Wiki:
Free movement of people
Air traffic
Road traffic
Agriculture
Technical trade barriers
Public procurement
Science
Security and asylum and Schengen membership
Cooperation in fraud pursuits
Final stipulations in open questions about agriculture, environment, media, education, care of the elderly, statistics and services.
I'm not sure we have the bargaining power necessary to emulate Switzerland's position. Switzerland genuinely have their cake and eat it.
As to the balance of capital and labour the problem is both sides are being robbed by the parasitical executive class.
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/744615255884599298
https://twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/744643197079543808
Which PBer was it who claimed Farage was a deep sleeper agent for Remain?
I'll get my coat.....
Expect to hear it repeated more than once!
So I think those three options are about right. Senior members of the French and German governments (Macron and Schaeuble) have both talked about qualifying EEA membership for Britain. That may just be posturing. Also the FTA option may be closer to the Korean model than the Canadian one.
Are you denying it's a xenophobic and racist campaign? It is. No question. It is squalid and disgusting.
If you have a limited supply of housing etc, but then allow an unlimited supply of labour something is going to brake.
This is the classy way to seek a Remain vote, not Schaeuble's ridiculous threats.
Baroness Token.
He managed to extend his inability to do anything about EU migration into an admission that he is doing a fairly crap job in controlling non-EU migration. Even Corbyn didn't manage that this morning.
And he looked shifty as hell in his squirming and refusal to give a straight answer to the question of vetoing Turkish membership.
I think Remain will edge it, but Cameron's performance tonight won't have gained them votes.
Good night all.
Baku GP. What a disappointing race! Looked like a great setup after bumpy practice and qualifying, ended us as good amount of overtaking but nob all bumpy bumpy. To give my brother/sister-in-law credit, when I left their house at teatime they didn't give anything away (they'd watched live) when I said my father's day treat later was to banish the childs to bed and watch the race with a beer...
How is that going down in Italy?
There's just such a poverty of thought behind the whole approach. Mind you, carry on Dan. I'm sure you're doing sterling work for Brexit, if you did but know it.
In other news, tea goes well with biscuits.
Given how successful trump is with his adjective insult campaign, shouldn't Racist Remainers be the clarion call of the Leave campaign. It certainly seems to have traction. Little Marco, Lyin' Ted and Low Energy Jeb certainly seemed to work.
...except Leave might be worse. You have to be really down on your luck for there not to be a "worse" in your early morning nightmares.
The problem is its not creating enough wealth at present to carry all the low productivity workers and non-workers.
Solutions are:
Reduce the number of non-workers - difficult with an ageing population
Increase average productivity - difficult if there are no restrictions on low productivity immigrants
I assume Remain were equally in turmoil when a recent Head of The Armed Forces changed his mind.
The difference being
A) He actually had a proper job ( safe guarding 60+ million people)
1) accusing someone of being racist is usually a sign of a lost argument
2) rather like the Little Englander jibe it is likely to backfire. Many Britons would prefer migrants to be of white Christian heritage.
Curiously, 'defector' Sayeeda Warsi does not appear to have been part of the 'Muslims for Britain' pro-Leave group
And he's within touching distance in the relevant swing states.
Not even started on the Crooked One yet.
Wang the Man says 35% chance now...
Go ahead and see how far that one goes.
It really wasnt very anti, except anti organisations causing industrial unrest without good cause or regard to their actions.
The first piece of legislation was in 1980. It tightened what could be considered lawful picketing (ie not being allowed to threaten to slit the throats of anyone who crossed the picket line), and a ballot to prevent 'closed shop' work places, unless 80% approved.
Those Tory bas**ards. They even went further with their fascist regime. In 1982 they passed a laws that :
* unlawful to sack someone for not being a member of a union.
* removal of civil immunity for unlawful industrial action
* immunity only applies to lawful trade disputes between workers and their employers. No secondary action.
In 1984 she passed a law requiring a union to hold a secret ballot as to whether they go on strike. How did she sleep at night?
It took a Tory to democratise the trade union movement.
If things have been getting worse for you for several years you will expect things to continue to do so if nothing changes.
That's why you vote for change.