Good to see the ITV Leave team back. Their Remain opponents look a little more formidable this time overall.
Only Ruth Davidson is a good performer out of the remain lot, Sadiq Khan is really not that popular in London he only won THAT big because the Tory campaign was sick, oh and he has already broke his promise to freeze fares.
Sadiq Khan is really not that popular in London he only won THAT big because the Tory campaign was sick, oh and he has already broke his promise to freeze fares.
Just been looking at a photo of my old Dad who died 4 years ago.
Not in a great place right now.
Keep hold of the photo. At some point in the future you will realise with a shock that you can't remember what they looked like.
I won't tell you it'll get better 'cos it won't: dead is dead and there is no negotiating. But as you grow older you will reach a greater understanding of your father as you approach his age and go thru similar life experiences, and that will help you come to terms. Hope that helps, even if only a little bit.
if we finally beat the eurosceptics this week, I hope the Blairites, labour Moderates, Liberal Orange Book and Cameroons click that there is more that unites us than divides us.
At 10pm on June 23rd, what do you reckon the total matched figure will be on the main Betfair Brexit market?
It's £37m now, reckon it could hit £50m?
Why are you so confident of a big Remain win? Is it because you are so busy at work preparing for brexit and you think that is being repeated up and down the country and people are thinking "gee this is a big risk".
Just five days away from the most important vote in the history of this country and it looks pretty clear REMAIN are now going to win (I never really doubted it in my mind but this last week was fun before the polls inevitably turned again).
... REMAIN would fight back with.... well... any old rubbish they could and I'm sure people would listen. I don't think the British public really want to LEAVE. Or rather, they are a bit too scared to LEAVE. My wife and I have 'discussed' the matter for many weeks. She's a firm REMAINer, but eventually confessed the only reason she was voting REMAIN was she was scared. Cling to Nurse.
As to those REMAINers who think that after a REMAIN vote, that there will be no further integration, no continuing move to a European superstate they really are deluded. The Status Quo is not on the ballot paper on Thursday. If the most Euro-sceptic member turns around on Friday morning and returns a REMAIN victory then there will be no stopping the EU then. A little bit of punishment for the UK immediately after just to make sure no one else tries it (maybe our rebate will be reduced) and then full steam ahead for further integration. People are saying that LEAVE will ‘own’ their result if LEAVE was to win. The same applies in spades to REMAIN.
35% of the voters are staunch LEAVErs. Would walk over coal to get to the polls and vote LEAVE. 15% of the same REMAINers. The other 50% will break almost all for REMAIN. Better the devil I know. Cling to nurse. It’s scary outside.
I’m a Lib Dem member. Joined after our defeat in 2015. But I can’t stand my party somehow thinking an undemocratic, highly bureaucratic superstate is the place to be. A clue is in the party name. Liberal DEMOCRATS. Have we completely lost the plot?
Unless Remain win by 60% or more there is no mandate to join the eurozone or Schengen
If Remain won by 90/10 there would be no mandate to join either.
We're voting Remain with Cameron's renegotiation orLeave - remember?
On that the voters will hold him
The voters either don't know what his renegotiation is or understand that it's a pile of nothing.
So they'll accept sweet nothing? What a load of tosh.
Yes, the campaign hasn't been about the renegotiation and voters who care about it correctly believe that it's pants. The renegotiation was a short-term tactic Cameron used to get through the 2015 election without admitting that he supported the EU, it has nothing to do with the actual issue at hand.
Just five days away from the most important vote in the history of this country and it looks pretty clear REMAIN are now going to win (I never really doubted it in my mind but this last week was fun before the polls inevitably turned again).
... REMAIN would fight back with.... well... any old rubbish they could and I'm sure people would listen. I don't think the British public really want to LEAVE. Or rather, they are a bit too scared to LEAVE. My wife and I have 'discussed' the matter for many weeks. She's a firm REMAINer, but eventually confessed the only reason she was voting REMAIN was she was scared. Cling to Nurse.
As to those REMAINers who think that after a REMAIN vote, that there will be no further integration, no continuing move to a European superstate they really are deluded. The Status Quo is not on the ballot paper on Thursday. If the most Euro-sceptic member turns around on Friday morning and returns a REMAIN victory then there will be no stopping the EU then. A little bit of punishment for the UK immediately after just to make sure no one else tries it (maybe our rebate will be reduced) and then full steam ahead for further integration. People are saying that LEAVE will ‘own’ their result if LEAVE was to win. The same applies in spades to REMAIN.
35% of the voters are staunch LEAVErs. Would walk over coal to get to the polls and vote LEAVE. 15% of the same REMAINers. The other 50% will break almost all for REMAIN. Better the devil I know. Cling to nurse. It’s scary outside.
I’m a Lib Dem member. Joined after our defeat in 2015. But I can’t stand my party somehow thinking an undemocratic, highly bureaucratic superstate is the place to be. A clue is in the party name. Liberal DEMOCRATS. Have we completely lost the plot?
Unless Remain win by 60% or more there is no mandate to join the eurozone or Schengen
If Remain won by 90/10 there would be no mandate to join either.
We're voting Remain with Cameron's renegotiation orLeave - remember?
On that the voters will hold him
The voters either don't know what his renegotiation is or understand that it's a pile of nothing.
So they'll accept sweet nothing? What a load of tosh.
Yes, the campaign hasn't been about the renegotiation and voters who care about it correctly believe that it's pants. The renegotiation was a short-term tactic Cameron used to get through the 2015 election without admitting that he supported the EU, it has nothing to do with the actual issue at hand.
So, as a Remainer, should the PM go back on his promise to the people?
At 10pm on June 23rd, what do you reckon the total matched figure will be on the main Betfair Brexit market?
It's £37m now, reckon it could hit £50m?
Why are you so confident of a big Remain win? Is it because you are so busy at work preparing for brexit and you think that is being repeated up and down the country and people are thinking "gee this is a big risk".
At 10pm on June 23rd, what do you reckon the total matched figure will be on the main Betfair Brexit market?
It's £37m now, reckon it could hit £50m?
Why are you so confident of a big Remain win? Is it because you are so busy at work preparing for brexit and you think that is being repeated up and down the country and people are thinking "gee this is a big risk".
Good to see the ITV Leave team back. Their Remain opponents look a little more formidable this time overall.
Only Ruth Davidson is a good performer out of the remain lot, Sadiq Khan is really not that popular in London he only won THAT big because the Tory campaign was sick, oh and he has already broke his promise to freeze fares.
Yes but the balance is better. Davidson could have a blinder. If you were trying to convince Tory waverers at the ITV debate by putting up Sturgeon and the highly partisan Eagle (fear of a SNP/Lab stitch up won the Tories GE 2015 remember) and with Amber Rudd (whether or not she was acting under orders) coming across as a thoroughly obnoxious individual it allowed L:eave to win that debate and helped kick off the boost we saw to their ratings.
if we finally beat the eurosceptics this week, I hope the Blairites, labour Moderates, Liberal Orange Book and Cameroons click that there is more that unites us than divides us.
P.S. Still backing Wales for the group?
Wales should beat Russia.
If Vardy starts then England should be top but if it's Kane...
REMAIN "up'ing" their game from their ITV team! :;)
Makes much more sense then having Nicola. Sorry she might be a good performer but her inconsistent stand just blunts her arguments.Frances O Grady there to try and get the labour wwc vote but I've seen her on t.v and won't be able to reach out to them.
I think Stuart actually did the best last time and I believe she was the only one rated in the top three by both sides.
Good to see the ITV Leave team back. Their Remain opponents look a little more formidable this time overall.
Only Ruth Davidson is a good performer out of the remain lot, Sadiq Khan is really not that popular in London he only won THAT big because the Tory campaign was sick, oh and he has already broke his promise to freeze fares.
Yes but the balance is better. Davidson could have a blinder. If you were trying to convince Tory waverers at the ITV debate by putting up Sturgeon and the highly partisan Eagle (fear of a SNP/Lab stitch up won the Tories GE 2015 remember) and with Amber Rudd (whether or not she was acting under orders) coming across as a thoroughly obnoxious individual it allowed L:eave to win that debate and helped kick off the boost we saw to their ratings.
Reckon O'Grady might be the dark horse in that debate.
Unless Remain win by 60% or more there is no mandate to join the eurozone or Schengen
That's not how it will be seen in Brussels.
Brussels can think what it wants, EU ref is just the start of rising populism across the contibent and the more it tries to push the UK to integrate further the more UKIP will rise in the polls in response
I am considerably more worried about the rise of the loons across Europe than the rise of UKIP here.
There are some genuinely unpleasant forces at play because the EU doesn't listen.
Starting with Marine Le Pen and Geert Wilders next year
Exactly. The EUs response? La la la la la I'm not listening...You're just bad Europeans....
The more they ignore the more voters will react
Yes. But if we leave they might listen. If we don't they will not.
if we finally beat the eurosceptics this week, I hope the Blairites, labour Moderates, Liberal Orange Book and Cameroons click that there is more that unites us than divides us.
P.S. Still backing Wales for the group?
Wales should beat Russia.
If Vardy starts then England should be top but if it's Kane...
At 10pm on June 23rd, what do you reckon the total matched figure will be on the main Betfair Brexit market?
It's £37m now, reckon it could hit £50m?
Why are you so confident of a big Remain win? Is it because you are so busy at work preparing for brexit and you think that is being repeated up and down the country and people are thinking "gee this is a big risk".
Good to see the ITV Leave team back. Their Remain opponents look a little more formidable this time overall.
Only Ruth Davidson is a good performer out of the remain lot, Sadiq Khan is really not that popular in London he only won THAT big because the Tory campaign was sick, oh and he has already broke his promise to freeze fares.
Yes but the balance is better. Davidson could have a blinder. If you were trying to convince Tory waverers at the ITV debate by putting up Sturgeon and the highly partisan Eagle (fear of a SNP/Lab stitch up won the Tories GE 2015 remember) and with Amber Rudd (whether or not she was acting under orders) coming across as a thoroughly obnoxious individual it allowed L:eave to win that debate and helped kick off the boost we saw to their ratings.
Reckon O'Grady might be the dark horse in that debate.
She will try to use facts that go over the viewers heads.
■ The council covering the area where the MP was murdered recently called in one of Britain’s top counterextremism experts amid fears of a rise in “far-right activities”.
■ A neo-Nazi group has seized on Cox’s death to promote Brexit, saying of the murder suspect: “Don’t let this man’s sacrifice go in vain.”
Good to see the ITV Leave team back. Their Remain opponents look a little more formidable this time overall.
Only Ruth Davidson is a good performer out of the remain lot, Sadiq Khan is really not that popular in London he only won THAT big because the Tory campaign was sick, oh and he has already broke his promise to freeze fares.
Yes but the balance is better. Davidson could have a blinder. If you were trying to convince Tory waverers at the ITV debate by putting up Sturgeon and the highly partisan Eagle (fear of a SNP/Lab stitch up won the Tories GE 2015 remember) and with Amber Rudd (whether or not she was acting under orders) coming across as a thoroughly obnoxious individual it allowed L:eave to win that debate and helped kick off the boost we saw to their ratings.
Reckon O'Grady might be the dark horse in that debate.
She will try to use facts that go over the viewers heads.
Batley & Spen will be a contested by-election, it seems. 'Liberty GB' have announced a candidate.
I heard a disturbing rumour that Britain First might also stand, which might present a challenge under sub judice
Why?
Because of what he said in court today and how Britain First have campaigned in the past.
My guess is the by election will have no coverage at all. It probably seemed like the right thing to do at the time, but I reckon it would have been better for everyone if the Tories, Ukip and Lib Dems had stood.
Batley & Spen will be a contested by-election, it seems. 'Liberty GB' have announced a candidate.
I heard a disturbing rumour that Britain First might also stand, which might present a challenge under sub judice
Why?
Because of what he said in court today and how Britain First have campaigned in the past.
My guess is the by election will have no coverage at all. It probably seemed like the right thing to do at the time, but I reckon it would have been better for everyone if the Tories, Ukip and Lib Dems had stood.
Quite. If democracy loses, no one wins.
That is how our country has worked for many decades. It is how our country has beaten Nazisim and IRAism.
Batley & Spen will be a contested by-election, it seems. 'Liberty GB' have announced a candidate.
I heard a disturbing rumour that Britain First might also stand, which might present a challenge under sub judice
Why?
Because of what he said in court today and how Britain First have campaigned in the past.
My guess is the by election will have no coverage at all. It probably seemed like the right thing to do at the time, but I reckon it would have been better for everyone if the Tories, Ukip and Lib Dems had stood.
Quite. If democracy loses, no one wins.
That is how our country has worked for many decades. It is how our country has beaten Nazisim and IRAism.
Yes. People should have a choice, but Labouw wiĺ walk it.
if we finally beat the eurosceptics this week, I hope the Blairites, labour Moderates, Liberal Orange Book and Cameroons click that there is more that unites us than divides us.
P.S. Still backing Wales for the group?
Yeah, you all live on the same street in Notting Hill.
I'm sure London is one big vapid Europhile circle jerk at the moment.
As for "we need a centrist Eurosceptic party". There already is one - it's called the Conservative Party. What in fact is lacking is a centrist Leave party. Maybe one will.emerge out of the ashes of the Tory party.
Unless Remain win by 60% or more there is no mandate to join the eurozone or Schengen
That's not how it will be seen in Brussels.
Brussels can think what it wants, EU ref is just the start of rising populism across the contibent and the more it tries to push the UK to integrate further the more UKIP will rise in the polls in response
I am considerably more worried about the rise of the loons across Europe than the rise of UKIP here.
There are some genuinely unpleasant forces at play because the EU doesn't listen.
Starting with Marine Le Pen and Geert Wilders next year
Exactly. The EUs response? La la la la la I'm not listening...You're just bad Europeans....
The more they ignore the more voters will react
Yes. But if we leave they might listen. If we don't they will not.
If we leave they will be too busy trying to screw us to ensure nobody else does. Goodnight
At 10pm on June 23rd, what do you reckon the total matched figure will be on the main Betfair Brexit market?
It's £37m now, reckon it could hit £50m?
Why are you so confident of a big Remain win? Is it because you are so busy at work preparing for brexit and you think that is being repeated up and down the country and people are thinking "gee this is a big risk".
Unless Remain win by 60% or more there is no mandate to join the eurozone or Schengen
That's not how it will be seen in Brussels.
Brussels can think what it wants, EU ref is just the start of rising populism across the contibent and the more it tries to push the UK to integrate further the more UKIP will rise in the polls in response
I am considerably more worried about the rise of the loons across Europe than the rise of UKIP here.
There are some genuinely unpleasant forces at play because the EU doesn't listen.
Starting with Marine Le Pen and Geert Wilders next year
Exactly. The EUs response? La la la la la I'm not listening...You're just bad Europeans....
The more they ignore the more voters will react
Yes. But if we leave they might listen. If we don't they will not.
If we leave they will be too busy trying to screw us to ensure nobody else does. Goodnight
If we leave they will be too busy trying to rescue their illogical common currency and illogical political union absent the second biggest donor. They'll be bereft and we'll get back the free trade we always wanted - without the hilarious free movement that penalises strong economies.
if we finally beat the eurosceptics this week, I hope the Blairites, labour Moderates, Liberal Orange Book and Cameroons click that there is more that unites us than divides us.
P.S. Still backing Wales for the group?
Yeah, you all live on the same street in Notting Hill.
I'm sure London is one big vapid Europhile circle jerk at the moment.
As for "we need a centrist Eurosceptic party". There already is one - it's called the Conservative Party. What in fact is lacking is a centrist Leave party. Maybe one will.emerge out of the ashes of the Tory party.
Say, for a moment, the UK votes Remain. Perhaps it is time for parties to tackle UK problems without the comfort blanket of scapegoating Brussels? Most of our problems are homegrown.
I'm starting to seethe with anger at the thought that Remain could win.
The lies on Turkey. The lies that no more powers will go to Brussels. The lies over our special protections. The moment ANY more power is handed to Brussels the Conservative Parliamentary Party must block at all costs and attempt to force another referendum. If it brings down the government and tears the Tory Party apart then do it.
If Remain are to win this on promising no more powers to Brussels and then proceed to hand over more powers, then we're entitled to have another referendum. False prospectus.
If my opponents were honest and argued for a federal Europe and closer union and I lost then fair enough. But what makes me so angry is how they'll lie through their teeth to us. My blood boils.
I feel sympathy with your anger, but both campaigns are selling a false prospectus.
As they would in any conceivable politically-rebooted universe - regardless of the subject of the referendum!
■ The council covering the area where the MP was murdered recently called in one of Britain’s top counterextremism experts amid fears of a rise in “far-right activities”.
■ A neo-Nazi group has seized on Cox’s death to promote Brexit, saying of the murder suspect: “Don’t let this man’s sacrifice go in vain.”
Have you detected far right extremism when canvassing in west Yorkshire marginals. The ex mill towns have large Muslim populations right? Is there tension?
I'm starting to seethe with anger at the thought that Remain could win.
The lies on Turkey. The lies that no more powers will go to Brussels. The lies over our special protections. The moment ANY more power is handed to Brussels the Conservative Parliamentary Party must block at all costs and attempt to force another referendum. If it brings down the government and tears the Tory Party apart then do it.
If Remain are to win this on promising no more powers to Brussels and then proceed to hand over more powers, then we're entitled to have another referendum. False prospectus.
If my opponents were honest and argued for a federal Europe and closer union and I lost then fair enough. But what makes me so angry is how they'll lie through their teeth to us. My blood boils.
I feel sympathy with your anger, but both campaigns are selling a false prospectus.
As they would in any conceivable politically-rebooted universe - regardless of the subject of the referendum!
How is it possible that we can have 650 MPs, all, presumably, of average personal integrity, all starting out with reasonable motives, and yet what comes out as the end product is just lies, damn lies and tractor stats?
I'm starting to seethe with anger at the thought that Remain could win.
The lies on Turkey. The lies that no more powers will go to Brussels. The lies over our special protections. The moment ANY more power is handed to Brussels the Conservative Parliamentary Party must block at all costs and attempt to force another referendum. If it brings down the government and tears the Tory Party apart then do it.
If Remain are to win this on promising no more powers to Brussels and then proceed to hand over more powers, then we're entitled to have another referendum. False prospectus.
If my opponents were honest and argued for a federal Europe and closer union and I lost then fair enough. But what makes me so angry is how they'll lie through their teeth to us. My blood boils.
I feel sympathy with your anger, but both campaigns are selling a false prospectus.
As they would in any conceivable politically-rebooted universe - regardless of the subject of the referendum!
How is it possible that we can have 650 MPs, all, presumably, of average personal integrity, all starting out with reasonable motives, and yet what comes out as the end product is just lies, damn lies and tractor stats?
if we finally beat the eurosceptics this week, I hope the Blairites, labour Moderates, Liberal Orange Book and Cameroons click that there is more that unites us than divides us.
P.S. Still backing Wales for the group?
Yeah, you all live on the same street in Notting Hill.
I'm sure London is one big vapid Europhile circle jerk at the moment.
As for "we need a centrist Eurosceptic party". There already is one - it's called the Conservative Party. What in fact is lacking is a centrist Leave party. Maybe one will.emerge out of the ashes of the Tory party.
Say, for a moment, the UK votes Remain. Perhaps it is time for parties to tackle UK problems without the comfort blanket of scapegoating Brussels? Most of our problems are homegrown.
Oh you mean like mass immigration, the issue voters are most concerned about but which the political classes can do nothing about due to European Union law?
■ The council covering the area where the MP was murdered recently called in one of Britain’s top counterextremism experts amid fears of a rise in “far-right activities”.
■ A neo-Nazi group has seized on Cox’s death to promote Brexit, saying of the murder suspect: “Don’t let this man’s sacrifice go in vain.”
Have you detected far right extremism when canvassing in west Yorkshire marginals. The ex mill towns have large Muslim populations right? Is there tension?
Britain First are no more representative of LEAVE than ISIS are representative of Muslims.
I'm starting to seethe with anger at the thought that Remain could win.
The lies on Turkey. The lies that no more powers will go to Brussels. The lies over our special protections. The moment ANY more power is handed to Brussels the Conservative Parliamentary Party must block at all costs and attempt to force another referendum. If it brings down the government and tears the Tory Party apart then do it.
If Remain are to win this on promising no more powers to Brussels and then proceed to hand over more powers, then we're entitled to have another referendum. False prospectus.
If my opponents were honest and argued for a federal Europe and closer union and I lost then fair enough. But what makes me so angry is how they'll lie through their teeth to us. My blood boils.
I feel sympathy with your anger, but both campaigns are selling a false prospectus.
As they would in any conceivable politically-rebooted universe - regardless of the subject of the referendum!
How is it possible that we can have 650 MPs, all, presumably, of average personal integrity, all starting out with reasonable motives, and yet what comes out as the end product is just lies, damn lies and tractor stats?
Ignorant voters.
Too facile, Edmund. There is nothing wrong with the voters. It is the system that rewards that sort of behaviour.
■ The council covering the area where the MP was murdered recently called in one of Britain’s top counterextremism experts amid fears of a rise in “far-right activities”.
■ A neo-Nazi group has seized on Cox’s death to promote Brexit, saying of the murder suspect: “Don’t let this man’s sacrifice go in vain.”
Have you detected far right extremism when canvassing in west Yorkshire marginals. The ex mill towns have large Muslim populations right? Is there tension?
Britain First are no more representative of LEAVE than ISIS are representative of Muslims.
Er OK I don't know what made u post that comment in response to what I posted but thanx.
I'm starting to seethe with anger at the thought that Remain could win.
The lies on Turkey. The lies that no more powers will go to Brussels. The lies over our special protections. The moment ANY more power is handed to Brussels the Conservative Parliamentary Party must block at all costs and attempt to force another referendum. If it brings down the government and tears the Tory Party apart then do it.
If Remain are to win this on promising no more powers to Brussels and then proceed to hand over more powers, then we're entitled to have another referendum. False prospectus.
If my opponents were honest and argued for a federal Europe and closer union and I lost then fair enough. But what makes me so angry is how they'll lie through their teeth to us. My blood boils.
I feel sympathy with your anger, but both campaigns are selling a false prospectus.
As they would in any conceivable politically-rebooted universe - regardless of the subject of the referendum!
How is it possible that we can have 650 MPs, all, presumably, of average personal integrity, all starting out with reasonable motives, and yet what comes out as the end product is just lies, damn lies and tractor stats?
Feel like Dave, George and Boris think they were born to rule, thought the same with End tbh.
if we finally beat the eurosceptics this week, I hope the Blairites, labour Moderates, Liberal Orange Book and Cameroons click that there is more that unites us than divides us.
P.S. Still backing Wales for the group?
Yeah, you all live on the same street in Notting Hill.
I'm sure London is one big vapid Europhile circle jerk at the moment.
As for "we need a centrist Eurosceptic party". There already is one - it's called the Conservative Party. What in fact is lacking is a centrist Leave party. Maybe one will.emerge out of the ashes of the Tory party.
Say, for a moment, the UK votes Remain. Perhaps it is time for parties to tackle UK problems without the comfort blanket of scapegoating Brussels? Most of our problems are homegrown.
Oh you mean like mass immigration, the issue voters are most concerned about but which the political classes can do nothing about due to European Union law?
No wonder people turn to the extremes.
There's plenty politicians can do about mass immigration- like moving to a contribution based health & benefits system for starters - that would severely diminish the attraction of low paid work for immigrants.
if we finally beat the eurosceptics this week, I hope the Blairites, labour Moderates, Liberal Orange Book and Cameroons click that there is more that unites us than divides us.
P.S. Still backing Wales for the group?
Yeah, you all live on the same street in Notting Hill.
I'm sure London is one big vapid Europhile circle jerk at the moment.
As for "we need a centrist Eurosceptic party". There already is one - it's called the Conservative Party. What in fact is lacking is a centrist Leave party. Maybe one will.emerge out of the ashes of the Tory party.
Say, for a moment, the UK votes Remain. Perhaps it is time for parties to tackle UK problems without the comfort blanket of scapegoating Brussels? Most of our problems are homegrown.
Oh you mean like mass immigration, the issue voters are most concerned about but which the political classes can do nothing about due to European Union law?
No wonder people turn to the extremes.
There's plenty politicians can do about mass immigration- like moving to a contribution based health & benefits system for starters - that would severely diminish the attraction of low paid work for immigrants.
Most immigrant workers are of course young and healthy.
I'm starting to seethe with anger at the thought that Remain could win.
The lies on Turkey. The lies that no more powers will go to Brussels. The lies over our special protections. The moment ANY more power is handed to Brussels the Conservative Parliamentary Party must block at all costs and attempt to force another referendum. If it brings down the government and tears the Tory Party apart then do it.
If Remain are to win this on promising no more powers to Brussels and then proceed to hand over more powers, then we're entitled to have another referendum. False prospectus.
If my opponents were honest and argued for a federal Europe and closer union and I lost then fair enough. But what makes me so angry is how they'll lie through their teeth to us. My blood boils.
I feel sympathy with your anger, but both campaigns are selling a false prospectus.
As they would in any conceivable politically-rebooted universe - regardless of the subject of the referendum!
How is it possible that we can have 650 MPs, all, presumably, of average personal integrity, all starting out with reasonable motives, and yet what comes out as the end product is just lies, damn lies and tractor stats?
Feel like Dave, George and Boris think they were born to rule, thought the same with End tbh.
Ed Miliband? Seemed really odd the way he went from being (appearing) shocked at winning the leadership to being devastated because he didn't win the GE.
if we finally beat the eurosceptics this week, I hope the Blairites, labour Moderates, Liberal Orange Book and Cameroons click that there is more that unites us than divides us.
P.S. Still backing Wales for the group?
Yeah, you all live on the same street in Notting Hill.
I'm sure London is one big vapid Europhile circle jerk at the moment.
As for "we need a centrist Eurosceptic party". There already is one - it's called the Conservative Party. What in fact is lacking is a centrist Leave party. Maybe one will.emerge out of the ashes of the Tory party.
Say, for a moment, the UK votes Remain. Perhaps it is time for parties to tackle UK problems without the comfort blanket of scapegoating Brussels? Most of our problems are homegrown.
Oh you mean like mass immigration, the issue voters are most concerned about but which the political classes can do nothing about due to European Union law?
No wonder people turn to the extremes.
There's plenty politicians can do about mass immigration- like moving to a contribution based health & benefits system for starters - that would severely diminish the attraction of low paid work for immigrants.
Big business won't like that, so it won't happen. Think of all those directorships awaiting after life in parliament. Not going to throw that away by helping the plebs.
I'm starting to seethe with anger at the thought that Remain could win.
The lies on Turkey. The lies that no more powers will go to Brussels. The lies over our special protections. The moment ANY more power is handed to Brussels the Conservative Parliamentary Party must block at all costs and attempt to force another referendum. If it brings down the government and tears the Tory Party apart then do it.
If Remain are to win this on promising no more powers to Brussels and then proceed to hand over more powers, then we're entitled to have another referendum. False prospectus.
If my opponents were honest and argued for a federal Europe and closer union and I lost then fair enough. But what makes me so angry is how they'll lie through their teeth to us. My blood boils.
I feel sympathy with your anger, but both campaigns are selling a false prospectus.
As they would in any conceivable politically-rebooted universe - regardless of the subject of the referendum!
How is it possible that we can have 650 MPs, all, presumably, of average personal integrity, all starting out with reasonable motives, and yet what comes out as the end product is just lies, damn lies and tractor stats?
Ignorant voters.
Too facile, Edmund. There is nothing wrong with the voters. It is the system that rewards that sort of behaviour.
It's a democracy, the voters create the system. If they tell you the truth you won't vote for them, you vote for someone who tells you the lies you want to hear.
if we finally beat the eurosceptics this week, I hope the Blairites, labour Moderates, Liberal Orange Book and Cameroons click that there is more that unites us than divides us.
P.S. Still backing Wales for the group?
Yeah, you all live on the same street in Notting Hill.
I'm sure London is one big vapid Europhile circle jerk at the moment.
As for "we need a centrist Eurosceptic party". There already is one - it's called the Conservative Party. What in fact is lacking is a centrist Leave party. Maybe one will.emerge out of the ashes of the Tory party.
Say, for a moment, the UK votes Remain. Perhaps it is time for parties to tackle UK problems without the comfort blanket of scapegoating Brussels? Most of our problems are homegrown.
Oh you mean like mass immigration, the issue voters are most concerned about but which the political classes can do nothing about due to European Union law?
No wonder people turn to the extremes.
There's plenty politicians can do about mass immigration- like moving to a contribution based health & benefits system for starters - that would severely diminish the attraction of low paid work for immigrants.
Most immigrant workers are of course young and healthy.
Yes - but raising the 'cost' of low paid employment - via compulsory health insurance and no in-work benefits without previously paying in (a common system in Europe) would diminish the attractiveness of these jobs - which presumably would then go unfilled.....
Interesting tweet from Matt Singh on the polls: This looks like status quo reversion, not a result of the events of Thursday (though the latter can't be ruled out)
Interesting that both the Times & Mail have 'split ticketed' with the daily & Sunday publications opting for opposite sides of the vote (IN: Daily Times, Sunday Mail, OUT: Daily Mail, Sunday Times)
Looking at the new 3 vs 3 tv debate lineup. REMAIN are clearly in panic mode. They even add a male. But how will the big 2 issues now go? Who on the REMAIN side can talk knowledgeably on the UK Economy? Answer none. Sadiq and the TUC lady will disown Osborne's emergency budget and attack austerity. An own goal. Ruth will suck that up and risk talking on UK matters with just Scots examples. Middle england shudders.
Who on REMAIN can say anything attractive to immigration concerns? Answer none. GiselIe can empathise with promises for LEAVE and REMAIN will promise .... no hope of change.
Looking at the new 3 vs 3 tv debate lineup. REMAIN are clearly in panic mode. They even add a male. But how will the big 2 issues now go? Who on the REMAIN side can talk knowledgeably on the UK Economy? Answer none. Sadiq and the TUC lady will disown Osborne's emergency budget and attack austerity. An own goal. Ruth will suck that up and risk talking on UK matters with just Scots examples. Middle england shudders.
Who on REMAIN can say anything attractive to immigration concerns? Answer none. GiselIe can empathise with promises for LEAVE and REMAIN will promise .... no hope of change.
They could always go with Gove's ringing endorsement:
I don’t think there will be a recession as a result of a vote to leave.
Looking at the new 3 vs 3 tv debate lineup. REMAIN are clearly in panic mode. They even add a male. But how will the big 2 issues now go? Who on the REMAIN side can talk knowledgeably on the UK Economy? Answer none. Sadiq and the TUC lady will disown Osborne's emergency budget and attack austerity. An own goal. Ruth will suck that up and risk talking on UK matters with just Scots examples. Middle england shudders.
Who on REMAIN can say anything attractive to immigration concerns? Answer none. GiselIe can empathise with promises for LEAVE and REMAIN will promise .... no hope of change.
Yeah the line up really looks like a 50%+1 vote strategy. Encouraging for leave.
I'm starting to seethe with anger at the thought that Remain could win.
The lies on Turkey. The lies that no more powers will go to Brussels. The lies over our special protections. The moment ANY more power is handed to Brussels the Conservative Parliamentary Party must block at all costs and attempt to force another referendum. If it brings down the government and tears the Tory Party apart then do it.
If Remain are to win this on promising no more powers to Brussels and then proceed to hand over more powers, then we're entitled to have another referendum. False prospectus.
If my opponents were honest and argued for a federal Europe and closer union and I lost then fair enough. But what makes me so angry is how they'll lie through their teeth to us. My blood boils.
I feel sympathy with your anger, but both campaigns are selling a false prospectus.
As they would in any conceivable politically-rebooted universe - regardless of the subject of the referendum!
How is it possible that we can have 650 MPs, all, presumably, of average personal integrity, all starting out with reasonable motives, and yet what comes out as the end product is just lies, damn lies and tractor stats?
Ignorant voters.
Too facile, Edmund. There is nothing wrong with the voters. It is the system that rewards that sort of behaviour.
It's a democracy, the voters create the system. If they tell you the truth you won't vote for them, you vote for someone who tells you the lies you want to hear.
The voters only provide rewards to politicians once every five years. The rewards from the party system and the Westminster system are far more frequent, immediate and valuable to politicians than the 5-yearly mandate, and hence drive behaviour more.
I'm starting to seethe with anger at the thought that Remain could win.
The lies on Turkey. The lies that no more powers will go to Brussels. The lies over our special protections. The moment ANY more power is handed to Brussels the Conservative Parliamentary Party must block at all costs and attempt to force another referendum. If it brings down the government and tears the Tory Party apart then do it.
If Remain are to win this on promising no more powers to Brussels and then proceed to hand over more powers, then we're entitled to have another referendum. False prospectus.
If my opponents were honest and argued for a federal Europe and closer union and I lost then fair enough. But what makes me so angry is how they'll lie through their teeth to us. My blood boils.
I feel sympathy with your anger, but both campaigns are selling a false prospectus.
As they would in any conceivable politically-rebooted universe - regardless of the subject of the referendum!
How is it possible that we can have 650 MPs, all, presumably, of average personal integrity, all starting out with reasonable motives, and yet what comes out as the end product is just lies, damn lies and tractor stats?
Ignorant voters.
Too facile, Edmund. There is nothing wrong with the voters. It is the system that rewards that sort of behaviour.
It's a democracy, the voters create the system. If they tell you the truth you won't vote for them, you vote for someone who tells you the lies you want to hear.
The voters only provide rewards to politicians once every five years. The rewards from the party system and the Westminster system are far more frequent, immediate and valuable to politicians than the 5-yearly mandate, and hence drive behaviour more.
The main goal of the parties is to get reelected. If the voters rewarded honesty, that's what the parties would be enforcing. The fact is that the voters reward dishonesty and punish honesty, which is why you get the same problems everywhere, regardless of the length of the election cycle.
Looking at the new 3 vs 3 tv debate lineup. REMAIN are clearly in panic mode. They even add a male. But how will the big 2 issues now go? Who on the REMAIN side can talk knowledgeably on the UK Economy? Answer none. Sadiq and the TUC lady will disown Osborne's emergency budget and attack austerity. An own goal. Ruth will suck that up and risk talking on UK matters with just Scots examples. Middle england shudders.
Who on REMAIN can say anything attractive to immigration concerns? Answer none. GiselIe can empathise with promises for LEAVE and REMAIN will promise .... no hope of change.
They could always go with Gove's ringing endorsement:
I don’t think there will be a recession as a result of a vote to leave.
Like the Sunday front pages much?
These adverts with a Pic of Cameron and Osborne with a "Wipe the smile off their faces" heading may have more effect than whatever newspaper headlines are. I think Gove is making a mistake going onto the economics ground.
Looking at the new 3 vs 3 tv debate lineup. REMAIN are clearly in panic mode. They even add a male. But how will the big 2 issues now go? Who on the REMAIN side can talk knowledgeably on the UK Economy? Answer none. Sadiq and the TUC lady will disown Osborne's emergency budget and attack austerity. An own goal. Ruth will suck that up and risk talking on UK matters with just Scots examples. Middle england shudders.
Who on REMAIN can say anything attractive to immigration concerns? Answer none. GiselIe can empathise with promises for LEAVE and REMAIN will promise .... no hope of change.
They could always go with Gove's ringing endorsement:
I don’t think there will be a recession as a result of a vote to leave.
Like the Sunday front pages much?
I think Gove is making a mistake going onto the economics ground.
It would have been a brave man that went anywhere near immigration.....
Looking at the new 3 vs 3 tv debate lineup. REMAIN are clearly in panic mode. They even add a male. But how will the big 2 issues now go? Who on the REMAIN side can talk knowledgeably on the UK Economy? Answer none. Sadiq and the TUC lady will disown Osborne's emergency budget and attack austerity. An own goal. Ruth will suck that up and risk talking on UK matters with just Scots examples. Middle england shudders.
Who on REMAIN can say anything attractive to immigration concerns? Answer none. GiselIe can empathise with promises for LEAVE and REMAIN will promise .... no hope of change.
They could always go with Gove's ringing endorsement:
I don’t think there will be a recession as a result of a vote to leave.
Like the Sunday front pages much?
These adverts with a Pic of Cameron and Osborne with a "Wipe the smile off their faces" heading may have more effect than whatever newspaper headlines are.
You do realise that advert is personally targeted, don't you?*
So spending money on suggesting a committed LEAVEr should LEAVE may not be the best use of their funds....
*Funny story - many moons ago a poster complained to OGH about the banner ads he kept seeing for Romanian mail order brides - 'not appropriate for OGH website'. After it was pointed out that the ads he was seeing were based on his own web browsing history and had nowt to do with OGH.....he was not heard from again.....
Looking at the new 3 vs 3 tv debate lineup. REMAIN are clearly in panic mode. They even add a male. But how will the big 2 issues now go? Who on the REMAIN side can talk knowledgeably on the UK Economy? Answer none. Sadiq and the TUC lady will disown Osborne's emergency budget and attack austerity. An own goal. Ruth will suck that up and risk talking on UK matters with just Scots examples. Middle england shudders.
Who on REMAIN can say anything attractive to immigration concerns? Answer none. GiselIe can empathise with promises for LEAVE and REMAIN will promise .... no hope of change.
They could always go with Gove's ringing endorsement:
I don’t think there will be a recession as a result of a vote to leave.
Like the Sunday front pages much?
These adverts with a Pic of Cameron and Osborne with a "Wipe the smile off their faces" heading may have more effect than whatever newspaper headlines are.
You do realise that advert is personally targeted, don't you?*
Yes. But my browsing history rarely strays into Labour/leftie areas except the BBC..... and PB.
Looking at the new 3 vs 3 tv debate lineup. REMAIN are clearly in panic mode. They even add a male. But how will the big 2 issues now go? Who on the REMAIN side can talk knowledgeably on the UK Economy? Answer none. Sadiq and the TUC lady will disown Osborne's emergency budget and attack austerity. An own goal. Ruth will suck that up and risk talking on UK matters with just Scots examples. Middle england shudders.
Who on REMAIN can say anything attractive to immigration concerns? Answer none. GiselIe can empathise with promises for LEAVE and REMAIN will promise .... no hope of change.
They could always go with Gove's ringing endorsement:
I don’t think there will be a recession as a result of a vote to leave.
Like the Sunday front pages much?
These adverts with a Pic of Cameron and Osborne with a "Wipe the smile off their faces" heading may have more effect than whatever newspaper headlines are.
You do realise that advert is personally targeted, don't you?*
Yes. But my browsing history rarely strays into Labour/leftie areas except the BBC..... and PB.
Anti-EU people, note the mendacity and slipperiness of the words "linked" and "connected", and bear that in mind next time Andrew Gilligan or whoever tries to pull what this article is now pulling against people you disagree with.
I still think Leave will win but there's little doubt the madness of Mair has had an effect.
It's remarkable though how people can move on and I expect by Monday people will largely be back to how they were before the attack give or take a % or two either way.
It's still all to play for. Leave will win, in my view, because there are a significant number of Shy Leave. One huge tabloid push on Thursday will see us across the line.
Anti-EU people, note the mendacity and slipperiness of the words "linked" and "connected", and bear that in mind next time Andrew Gilligan or whoever tries to pull what this article is now pulling against people you disagree with.
I can't understand the syntax of that sentence so don't know your meaning. But I don't go near anything Andrew Gilligan writes. He's the utter pits of journalism: careless doesn't come close to his approach to reporting.
Interesting that both the Times & Mail have 'split ticketed' with the daily & Sunday publications opting for opposite sides of the vote (IN: Daily Times, Sunday Mail, OUT: Daily Mail, Sunday Times)
The MoS and Daily Mail are entirely different operations in different offices so it's not a split ticket. The two wings hate each other's guts. Take it from me. Well, if you will take anything from me but I do write for both papers.
The Mail on Sunday is really gunning for VoteLeave:
Swastika-covered Vote Leave activist Eva Van Housen caused further outrage on Saturday by describing the killing of Jo Cox as an ‘unfortunate’ event that should not stop people voting for Britain to leave the EU.
The leader of a US neo-Nazi group ‘supported’ by Jo Cox’s accused killer last night launched a sickening attack on the murdered MP saying: ‘She put a target on her back.’
Interesting that both the Times & Mail have 'split ticketed' with the daily & Sunday publications opting for opposite sides of the vote (IN: Daily Times, Sunday Mail, OUT: Daily Mail, Sunday Times)
The MoS and Daily Mail are entirely different operations in different offices so it's not a split ticket. The two wings hate each other's guts. Take it from me. Well, if you will take anything from me but I do write for both papers.
Interesting that both the Times & Mail have 'split ticketed' with the daily & Sunday publications opting for opposite sides of the vote (IN: Daily Times, Sunday Mail, OUT: Daily Mail, Sunday Times)
The MoS and Daily Mail are entirely different operations in different offices so it's not a split ticket. The two wings hate each other's guts. Take it from me. Well, if you will take anything from me but I do write for both papers.
I've always thought the MoS was a lot bitchier.
It pays me well so I don't care
I actually prefer writing for The Sun which I also do a lot: they're great.
Interesting that both the Times & Mail have 'split ticketed' with the daily & Sunday publications opting for opposite sides of the vote (IN: Daily Times, Sunday Mail, OUT: Daily Mail, Sunday Times)
The MoS and Daily Mail are entirely different operations in different offices so it's not a split ticket. The two wings hate each other's guts. Take it from me. Well, if you will take anything from me but I do write for both papers.
I've always thought the MoS was a lot bitchier.
It pays me well so I don't care
I actually prefer writing for The Sun which I also do a lot: they're great.
I do enjoy the Sun, even the bad stuff isn't grim. The MoS has a whole tutting tone.
Interesting that both the Times & Mail have 'split ticketed' with the daily & Sunday publications opting for opposite sides of the vote (IN: Daily Times, Sunday Mail, OUT: Daily Mail, Sunday Times)
The MoS and Daily Mail are entirely different operations in different offices so it's not a split ticket. The two wings hate each other's guts. Take it from me. Well, if you will take anything from me but I do write for both papers.
I've always thought the MoS was a lot bitchier.
It pays me well so I don't care
I actually prefer writing for The Sun which I also do a lot: they're great.
I do enjoy the Sun, even the bad stuff isn't grim. The MoS has a whole tutting tone.
Yes that's very much my Agent's view. There's an honesty about The Sun and I find the people who dislike it tend to do so because they dislike Murdoch. It's very easy to get snobbish about The Sun but I generally prefer my dealings with them. I write for the Sunday Times and Telegraph too but always enjoy switching into Sun mode: it's a fun way to write I find them very easy to work with: fast, direct, no bullshit or snobbishness. It's good stuff!
Comments
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/donald-trump-convention-delegates-media-hoax-224515
I know they don't sell many papers now, but surely every one of their readers dislikes on of them.
This sort of Remaon arrogance will ensure 60/40 Leave...
I won't tell you it'll get better 'cos it won't: dead is dead and there is no negotiating. But as you grow older you will reach a greater understanding of your father as you approach his age and go thru similar life experiences, and that will help you come to terms. Hope that helps, even if only a little bit.
if we finally beat the eurosceptics this week, I hope the Blairites, labour Moderates, Liberal Orange Book and Cameroons click that there is more that unites us than divides us.
P.S. Still backing Wales for the group?
We'll see then what his excuse is if/when he is Chancellor.
If Vardy starts then England should be top but if it's Kane...
I think Stuart actually did the best last time and I believe she was the only one rated in the top three by both sides.
I'd like to think that, whatever happens on Thursday, Farage resigns on the Friday, either in triumph or in failure. I doubt it will happen however.
He can then go on and try and win a seat in Parliament as a Conservative MP, but given his track record of winning MP seats, I don't rate his chances.
■ The council covering the area where the MP was murdered recently called in one of Britain’s top counterextremism experts amid fears of a rise in “far-right activities”.
■ A neo-Nazi group has seized on Cox’s death to promote Brexit, saying of the murder suspect: “Don’t let this man’s sacrifice go in vain.”
That is how our country has worked for many decades. It is how our country has beaten Nazisim and IRAism.
http://suttonnick.tumblr.com/
I'm sure London is one big vapid Europhile circle jerk at the moment.
As for "we need a centrist Eurosceptic party". There already is one - it's called the Conservative Party. What in fact is lacking is a centrist Leave party. Maybe one will.emerge out of the ashes of the Tory party.
30 on BF
As they would in any conceivable politically-rebooted universe - regardless of the subject of the referendum!
No wonder people turn to the extremes.
(edited to add: goodnight, all)
Think of all those directorships awaiting after life in parliament.
Not going to throw that away by helping the plebs.
Who on the REMAIN side can talk knowledgeably on the UK Economy? Answer none. Sadiq and the TUC lady will disown Osborne's emergency budget and attack austerity. An own goal. Ruth will suck that up and risk talking on UK matters with just Scots examples. Middle england shudders.
Who on REMAIN can say anything attractive to immigration concerns? Answer none. GiselIe can empathise with promises for LEAVE and REMAIN will promise .... no hope of change.
Pic of Cameron and Osborne with a "Wipe the smile off their faces" heading.
I don’t think there will be a recession as a result of a vote to leave.
Like the Sunday front pages much?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ck_1ihJWUAAme_P.jpg
So spending money on suggesting a committed LEAVEr should LEAVE may not be the best use of their funds....
*Funny story - many moons ago a poster complained to OGH about the banner ads he kept seeing for Romanian mail order brides - 'not appropriate for OGH website'. After it was pointed out that the ads he was seeing were based on his own web browsing history and had nowt to do with OGH.....he was not heard from again.....
If she wasn't dead, would anyone care? Have we moved onto the beatification stage now?
I think she understood they'd get wet
A hard-right group connected to Thomas Mair is linked to the Brexit campaign, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3648480/Brexit-link-Mair-racists-Loner-joined-South-African-far-Right-group-backs-campaign-says-UK-invaded-migrants.html
Remain: -21
Leave: +11
It's remarkable though how people can move on and I expect by Monday people will largely be back to how they were before the attack give or take a % or two either way.
It's still all to play for. Leave will win, in my view, because there are a significant number of Shy Leave. One huge tabloid push on Thursday will see us across the line.
The MoS and Daily Mail are entirely different operations in different offices so it's not a split ticket. The two wings hate each other's guts. Take it from me. Well, if you will take anything from me but I do write for both papers.
Swastika-covered Vote Leave activist Eva Van Housen caused further outrage on Saturday by describing the killing of Jo Cox as an ‘unfortunate’ event that should not stop people voting for Britain to leave the EU.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3648446/Don-t-let-man-s-sacrifice-vain-Swastika-covered-vote-Leave-activist-shocking-support-Jo-Cox-s-alleged-killer-calls-MP-s-death-unfortunate-says-shouldn-t-stop-Britons-voting-out.html
The leader of a US neo-Nazi group ‘supported’ by Jo Cox’s accused killer last night launched a sickening attack on the murdered MP saying: ‘She put a target on her back.’
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3648562/Jo-Cox-target-neo-Nazi-group-leader.html#ixzz4BzlEaqmH
Quite a contrast to the Daily Mail......wonder how Dacre feels about this....
I actually prefer writing for The Sun which I also do a lot: they're great.