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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Britain’s original sins?
A common thread in both the Remain and Leave campaigns is that the EU is something that is done by them to us. Crudely, Leave wants no more of this. And, equally crudely, Remain are saying that if we go what they will do to us (or even what we will do to ourselves by leaving) will be “such revenges…….such things, what they are, yet I know not:
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But thank you for another interesting piece Miss Cyclefree
Vote Remain to annoy de Gaulle and the French.
Good afternoon, everyone.
It would be no different to deciding whether or not we want to join the United States.
So true.
If the nation votes to remain in Europe, perhaps we should try to find one.
"German foreign minister has broken ranks with Nato allies, accusing the alliance of “warmongering” against Russia"
Frank-Walter Steinmeier spoke out against recent Nato military exercises in Poland and the Baltics, describing them as “sabre-rattling”.
“The one thing we shouldn’t do now is inflame the situation with loud sabre-rattling and warmongering,” the minister told Bild am Sonntag newspaper.
“Anyone who thinks a symbolic tank parade on the alliance’s eastern border will bring security is wrong,” he said in excerpts released ahead of a longer interview to be published on Sunday.
“We would be well advised not to provide a pretext to renew an old confrontation.”
No wonder the subject of an EU army is back on the discussion when you have a view like this from Germany about Nato. They clearly have an angle to create something outside of USA involvement, which is shared by the French....
In general politics lacks vision; there is lots of tactical manoeuvring but no big picture thinking.
For a good example of big picture thinking I would recommend the speech that the Governor of the Bank of England did not give on Thursday night about the fintech revolution.
https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/744165789259923456
NATO's future if Trunp wins and with this German attitude may come into play. It is also dangerous with Putin and the possible conflicts with ex iron curtain countries.
No wonder ex military chiefs in the UK are worried about the possibility of an EU army.
I am afraid that is time to Leave for democratic, economic and political and future generational reasons. As someone phrased it, Europe is the Titanic and we should stay at the quay.
We discussed the foreign minister's comments this morning. Germany and other Eastern European countries would like to loosen the sanctions regime against Russia, as it's been bad for business. The US is opposed.
Cyclefree has highlighted the background and strategic issues presented by the UK's European dimension, but it can't be simply teased apart from Europe's difficulties with the US.
We're often told that Europe is baffled by our hostility and intransigence. In my previous career I've had plenty of conversations with puzzled US francophiles wondering what goes on inside French minds.
The only real thing the US required of Paris & Berlin was not to set up a competing command structure outside of NATO. That's what's happening at present.
Strange days. The post-Cold War settlement is seemingly up in the air.
A good summary.
"It has never really levelled with the voters about this." It didn't in 1975 despite Nick's protestations, and yes, I admit, I didn't read the small print in 1957 (I was restricted to the Beano and the Daily Mirror).
Political union remains a guilty secret.
I don't think they are particularly Sean. I think that might be more your north London set? Almost everyone I know has made up their mind some time ago. The only movement I've seen is Remain to Leave.
source: Politico Daily on the Twitter
The key point, I think. Probably, as calling one is a power reserved to Westminster, but that does ignore the potential workarounds. If they thought they would win, the Scottish government could organise a referendum on its and if it then won that, then what? It would be constitutional chaos, but the salient point I think is even if a referendum is not granted by Westminster, that does not end matters.
In respect to Trade , it's easy when you hide behind tariffs and use our Consumer market against countries.
This pic is when de Gaulle vetoed our membership, seemed apt for this thread.
Maybe they need to get the hang of this balance of power idea
I tend to think people and nation's greatest strengths can also become their weaknesses, and Germany and its leaders no exceptions. I recall around the last Greek crisis the calm approach of Merkel, always keep to compromise and not overreact too soon, looked more like the sign of a complete ditherer, incapable of making up their mind about what to do.
Intriguing qualifying. Wish I'd put a bet on now.
Miss Cyclefree, another good article. I'd advocate a technological drive. Focus on making this a good place to take degrees and apprenticeships in the sciences and engineering, and to develop and manufacture high end products as well as software.
The UK has cornered the market on F1 engineering, and we should seek that dominance in as many fields as possible.
a) Pretends that it is not happening and then
b) Pretends that it can veto an EU army when they cannot stop any EU countries doing side deals such as France and Germany (something that they have already started on)
c) Claim that the EU is no threat to Nato even when several of the "EU Presidents" say that an EU army is the future........
Which reinforces Cyclefree's point about us having "no real European strategy".
It would be just fandabidozi if a (say) Johnson-Gove government forbade a second Indy referendum.
We're impossibly wealthy. Which is why I always wonder at the predictions of economic calamity. We're certainly going to decline in relative terms - last forecast I read had us at global #11 in 2050, just behind Germany.
In terms of wealth, all the EU9 are going to do well whatever happens. We're just squabbling over the gradient of the trend lines.
Of all the reasons to leave the EU, the economic argument is the weakest one. It's more about strategic interests. Perhaps, as Cyclefree puts it so eloquently, our leadership should be selling the vision of a true USE, instead of pretending it's not going to happen.
European heading for relative decline
If Leave wins on Thursday, stand by for PM @BorisJohnson to call an early election: my Sunday article @IndyVoices http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/if-leave-wins-on-thursday-prime-minister-boris-would-hold-an-early-election-a7088151.html …
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/eu-commission-president-juncker-under-fire-a-1098232.html
If the rules are wrong, then we should change the rules instead of constantly violating them," says Philippe Lamberts, head of the Greens-European Free Alliance group in European Parliament
Mr. Felix, perhaps he did, but the world has changed since then.
It's incredible that in tonight's Copa America quarter final between Argentina and Venezuela, Venezuela are on offer at 16.5 with Betfair to win over 90 minutes ..... remarkable odds for a two horse race, well three horses if one includes the draw.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/cant-show-decency-jo-coxs-death/
In 1945 Britain still thought itself the victor in Europe. Ernest Bevin, Labour Foriegn Sec, at the time was dead against any association with a beaten Germany at the time, even if it was the western half., and persuaded Clement Atlee, the PM, not to even sniff at joining the Common Market.
Bevins theory was that with a veto in the UN, that was the place to be and to show British Muscle if need be. Remember the early UN had just over 50 members in the beginning.