How can Labour credibly say they will negotiate Brexit when 90% of Lab MPs don't support it? And not one leading figure in the Lab party supports it? It would be completely insane.
The people will have spoken in a referendum. After that all the parties will have to come up with their vision for what Brexit looks like. Labour under Corbyn won't have any trouble defining what their Brexit looks like, meanwhile the Tories in government will be in disarray.
You're right - Con will be in disarray - in fact complete disarray. But they will be able to put in place a leader (and leadership team) that supports Brexit and will go ahead with that policy.
Lab won't be able to do that.
When is the last time a Government (of any party) took though Parliament a major piece of legislation which it didn't support? The whole concept of such a thing actually happening is completely barmy.
I am still cautiously pessimistic about the referendum.
The last few days have undoubtedly been good for Leave and the direction of travel is encouraging. By with more than 2 weeks yet to go I simply can't imagine we won't have either a standout performance from a Remain spokesman or a disastrous performance from a Leave spokesman which could change everything. Everything is just too febrile and I will really not believe it is possible for us to win until those polls close on 23rd June.
Farage needs to be on the leash. Gove and Johnson are now performing very well. Johnson has really picked up his game, from a wobbly start.
I bet Cameron now wishes he had agreed to a head to head with Farage, or somesuch. He could have made OUT look racist, by throwing some of Nigel's fruitier remarks back at him.
Too late now.
Indeed, Gove and Johnson have done way better for Leave than I could have ever predicted. If Farage were in charge then I doubt it would be this close.
Remain are hampered by the antics of Corbyn & McDonnell who remain unwilling to appear with Cameron and Osborne.
Labour could take a lesson from the Scottish Referendum, if you want to win you need message discipline and put party politics to one side.
If Remain are trailing in the polls with a day or two to go I expect Corbyn and Cameron to make a joint appearance.
Corbyn won't do it. He wants LEAVE to win. Surely you see that?
You are right. So does McDonnell.
Nope. I know them both and I've discussed it recently and directly with Corbyn. Their position is exactly what they say it is - they don't much like the current EU, but think that there is no route forward for a decent society in glorious isolation. Corbyn will be saying so in a further four speeches.
Now you can argue that it'd be better if they pretended to think the EU was absolutely fine, but they don't do pretend. People (like me and Hilary Benn) who do think it's pretty good are not in tune with most people on this, and in particular not in tune with undecided voters. It's auite difficult to put a nuanced position across - the media can't be bothered with it and just pick out a couple of lines. But this isn't the time for rah-rah cheerleading.
Nick – they are supposed to be delivering a referendum victory, which means carrying large numbers of Labour 2015 voters wth clear messaging, not equivocating. Their performance so far isn't nuanced so much as uncommitted, even reluctant. Corbyn may be a principled man, but he is no leader, and he is certainly not cut out for an election campaign. That has been proven.
I'm afraid I agree. Remain would be in a better position if Corbyn took a long holiday. this campaign has shown how unsuited he is to be leader and at last his supporters are noticing. They need some vision not a man creeping around without purpose
Cameron stands next to Hattie and starts going on about bombs.
Kinnock Junior gets up on his hind legs and says ITS ALWIGHT,ITS ALWIGHT WE WILL JUST IGNORE THE RESULT.
And now Neil kebabs Benn.
- and pb remainers start throwing in the towel
All this celebrating with over two weeks to go could look very very stupid on June 24th
Indeed. It's all very close - if the polls are fairly accurate. There's bound to be some pencil hovering in the ballot box for the status quo, there's two weeks to go plus, plenty of loose cannons knocking about, events could play both ways, and we could always get a Eurovow. The fat lady ain't even warming up. .
I've been wondering about the possibility of a Eurovow. Trouble is, unless any offer is enshrined in EU law it will be struck down by the courts later on - and we've already been round that discussion wrt the renegotiation.
Is there time for Eurocrats to get any Eurovow into EU law?
I have been wracking my brains trying to think of an inner London area that is predominantly WWC.
I can't think of a single one.
There are some in outer London: Eltham, Plumstead etc.
You probably never venture south of the river.
There are lots of areas in inner London where shiny new buildings have gone up, but the vast majority still live in the old council housing that's been there for years. They still constitute the bulk of the population apart from in the most chi-chi areas.
How can Labour credibly say they will negotiate Brexit when 90% of Lab MPs don't support it? And not one leading figure in the Lab party supports it? It would be completely insane.
The people will have spoken in a referendum. After that all the parties will have to come up with their vision for what Brexit looks like. Labour under Corbyn won't have any trouble defining what their Brexit looks like, meanwhile the Tories in government will be in disarray.
You're right - Con will be in disarray - in fact complete disarray. But they will be able to put in place a leader (and leadership team) that supports Brexit and will go ahead with that policy.
Lab won't be able to do that.
When is the last time a Government (of any party) took though Parliament a major piece of legislation which it didn't support? The whole concept of such a thing actually happening is completely barmy.
Gay marriage?
Not really the same - at least the leading figures in the Govt supported gay marriage - in particular the PM.
No leading figure in Lab supports Brexit.
It may be suggested Lab would just implement it - but how? There are massively complicated negotiations to be held. How are they going to negotiate to do something they don't support? The whole thing just isn't credible.
" A month out from both the Scottish referendum and the EU referendum, we asked identical questions on the economic impact of a yes/leave and no/remain vote. It highlights the challenge facing the Remain campaign in the next two weeks.
Respondents were asked what impact they felt leaving (whether it was Scotland leaving the Union or the UK leaving the EU) would have on their nation’s finances. The results show that approaching half (46 per cent) of Scots thought the country would suffer economically by voting to leave the UK compared to just over a third (34 per cent) of Britons who think the UK will be worse off if it left the EU. Furthermore, Brits are more likely to think that leaving the EU would make no difference to their national finances than Scots did when faced with the prospect of leaving the UK." http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/06/remain-campaigns-project-fear-losing-its-mojo
How can Labour credibly say they will negotiate Brexit when 90% of Lab MPs don't support it? And not one leading figure in the Lab party supports it? It would be completely insane.
The people will have spoken in a referendum. After that all the parties will have to come up with their vision for what Brexit looks like. Labour under Corbyn won't have any trouble defining what their Brexit looks like, meanwhile the Tories in government will be in disarray.
You're right - Con will be in disarray - in fact complete disarray. But they will be able to put in place a leader (and leadership team) that supports Brexit and will go ahead with that policy.
Lab won't be able to do that.
When is the last time a Government (of any party) took though Parliament a major piece of legislation which it didn't support? The whole concept of such a thing actually happening is completely barmy.
Gay marriage?
The government of the day supported gay marriage.
Perhaps, but what percentage of their MPs voted against?
Back on topic: I found some slightly old figures from HES (2013/14) showing 1.3m UK national students enrolled at UK universities on full time courses. A Santander study quoted in the Guardian said 22% live at home, which leaves approx. 1m students living away from home at term time that may need to re-register to vote in June.
Add to that the number of people turning 18/moving home etc... and there's going to need to be a real rush of people to register tomorrow.
How big a spike do we think there will be and will the government website cope?
Cameron stands next to Hattie and starts going on about bombs.
Kinnock Junior gets up on his hind legs and says ITS ALWIGHT,ITS ALWIGHT WE WILL JUST IGNORE THE RESULT.
And now Neil kebabs Benn.
- and pb remainers start throwing in the towel
All this celebrating with over two weeks to go could look very very stupid on June 24th
Indeed. It's all very close - if the polls are fairly accurate. There's bound to be some pencil hovering in the ballot box for the status quo, there's two weeks to go plus, plenty of loose cannons knocking about, events could play both ways, and we could always get a Eurovow. The fat lady ain't even warming up. .
I've been wondering about the possibility of a Eurovow. Trouble is, unless any offer is enshrined in EU law it will be struck down by the courts later on - and we've already been round that discussion wrt the renegotiation.
Is there time for Eurocrats to get any Eurovow into EU law?
The difference between a Eurovow and a Scottish vow is that in the first case the British government can unilaterally declare independence if it's broken, and in the second the Scottish government cannot.
This is also the main reason not to have such a vow as it would effectively give the Euro elite an eject button for the UK - they could renege on part of the deal knowing that it would be politically impossible for the UK not to carry out the threat of Brexit.
Remain are hampered by the antics of Corbyn & McDonnell who remain unwilling to appear with Cameron and Osborne.
Labour could take a lesson from the Scottish Referendum, if you want to win you need message discipline and put party politics to one side.
If Remain are trailing in the polls with a day or two to go I expect Corbyn and Cameron to make a joint appearance.
Corbyn won't do it. He wants LEAVE to win. Surely you see that?
You are right. So does McDonnell.
Nope. I know them both and I've discussed it recently and directly with Corbyn. Their position is exactly what they say it is - they don't much like the current EU, but think that there is no route forward for a decent society in glorious isolation. Corbyn will be saying so in a further four speeches.
Now you can argue that it'd be better if they pretended to think the EU was absolutely fine, but they don't do pretend. People (like me and Hilary Benn) who do think it's pretty good are not in tune with most people on this, and in particular not in tune with undecided voters. It's auite difficult to put a nuanced position across - the media can't be bothered with it and just pick out a couple of lines. But this isn't the time for rah-rah cheerleading.
Nick – they are supposed to be delivering a referendum victory, which means carrying large numbers of Labour 2015 voters wth clear messaging, not equivocating. Their performance so far isn't nuanced so much as uncommitted, even reluctant. Corbyn may be a principled man, but he is no leader, and he is certainly not cut out for an election campaign. That has been proven.
Why should Corbyn wish to help out David Cameron? What does he gain?
Cameron stands next to Hattie and starts going on about bombs.
Kinnock Junior gets up on his hind legs and says ITS ALWIGHT,ITS ALWIGHT WE WILL JUST IGNORE THE RESULT.
And now Neil kebabs Benn.
- and pb remainers start throwing in the towel
All this celebrating with over two weeks to go could look very very stupid on June 24th
Indeed. It's all very close - if the polls are fairly accurate. There's bound to be some pencil hovering in the ballot box for the status quo, there's two weeks to go plus, plenty of loose cannons knocking about, events could play both ways, and we could always get a Eurovow. The fat lady ain't even warming up. .
I've been wondering about the possibility of a Eurovow. Trouble is, unless any offer is enshrined in EU law it will be struck down by the courts later on - and we've already been round that discussion wrt the renegotiation.
Is there time for Eurocrats to get any Eurovow into EU law?
A Eurovow would not be feasible because the EU operates under laws and a balance of powers, whereas the UK operates effectively under executive fiat, so the government can promise whatever it likes. Free owls.
I was sinbinned from pb.com yesterday, deserved or not if you're invited to a party you abide by the rules.
I've just watched the Neil/Benn interview, jeez as a Leaver I wish that could be broadcast every night on BBC 1.
Nigel v Dave tomorrow, this is what Nigel has waited years for, to debate the EU with the PM on prime time tv. No idea what will happen but I don't mind admitting its like the North London derby for me, agonising. Its a pivotal part of the campaign for me, neither can win it tomorrow but either could blow it big time.
I have been wracking my brains trying to think of an inner London area that is predominantly WWC.
I can't think of a single one.
There are some in outer London: Eltham, Plumstead etc.
You probably never venture south of the river.
There are lots of areas in inner London where shiny new buildings have gone up, but the vast majority still live in the old council housing that's been there for years. They still constitute the bulk of the population apart from in the most chi-chi areas.
A ride on Thameslink along the viaduct from Blackfriars to Herne Hill makes that obvious
Somebody I've been campaigning with for months has just finished canvassing an area in South East London. It's still a Tory ward, but bordered by a Labour one and a bit more socially mixed than where we went at the weekend.
Just over 60% for leave.
Caveat Lots of people are out; this is only from those who responded.
Remain are hampered by the antics of Corbyn & McDonnell who remain unwilling to appear with Cameron and Osborne.
Labour could take a lesson from the Scottish Referendum, if you want to win you need message discipline and put party politics to one side.
If Remain are trailing in the polls with a day or two to go I expect Corbyn and Cameron to make a joint appearance.
Corbyn won't do it. He wants LEAVE to win. Surely you see that?
You are right. So does McDonnell.
Nope. I know them both and I've discussed it recently and directly with Corbyn. Their position is exactly what they say it is - they don't much like the current EU, but think that there is no route forward for a decent society in glorious isolation. Corbyn will be saying so in a further four speeches.
Now you can argue that it'd be better if they pretended to think the EU was absolutely fine, but they don't do pretend. People (like me and Hilary Benn) who do think it's pretty good are not in tune with most people on this, and in particular not in tune with undecided voters. It's auite difficult to put a nuanced position across - the media can't be bothered with it and just pick out a couple of lines. But this isn't the time for rah-rah cheerleading.
Nick – they are supposed to be delivering a referendum victory, which means carrying large numbers of Labour 2015 voters wth clear messaging, not equivocating. Their performance so far isn't nuanced so much as uncommitted, even reluctant. Corbyn may be a principled man, but he is no leader, and he is certainly not cut out for an election campaign. That has been proven.
Why should Corbyn wish to help out David Cameron? What does he gain?
I'd like to say he gains a referendum win Sean. But as it is far from clear he would consider that a 'gain' your point is well made.
I was sinbinned from pb.com yesterday, deserved or not if you're invited to a party you abide by the rules.
I've just watched the Neil/Benn interview, jeez as a Leaver I wish that could be broadcast every night on BBC 1.
Nigel v Dave tomorrow, this is what Nigel has waited years for, to debate the EU with the PM on prime time tv. No idea what will happen but I don't mind admitting its like the North London derby for me, agonising. Its a pivotal part of the campaign for me, neither can win it tomorrow but either could blow it big time.
I was sinbinned from pb.com yesterday, deserved or not if you're invited to a party you abide by the rules.
I've just watched the Neil/Benn interview, jeez as a Leaver I wish that could be broadcast every night on BBC 1.
Nigel v Dave tomorrow, this is what Nigel has waited years for, to debate the EU with the PM on prime time tv. No idea what will happen but I don't mind admitting its like the North London derby for me, agonising. Its a pivotal part of the campaign for me, neither can win it tomorrow but either could blow it big time.
Are they going head to head??
I thought Cameron had refused this
*confused*
It's not a head to head.
Is like last year's question time. 30 mins Q&A with the audience for Cameron, 30 min Q&A with the audience for Farage.
Pursuant to my longstanding (circa Autumn 2015) prediction of a LEAVE 55% REMAIN 45% result, I placed a £500 bet on LEAVE@5/2 on Friday June 3rd. That was topped up today Monday June 6th with a £250 bet on LEAVE@4/2 . On the basis that one should never bet more than one can lose, that concludes my betting activity on this event.
Frankly, I will be *very* happy if I lose every penny. But one bets with big head not little head.
BBC America are tormenting me again - showing several episodes of Top Gear, finishing with the last of the 'old', followed by a repeat of the first 'new' TG, leading up to episode 2 and extra gear starting at 9pm.
In other news, the Bernie Sanders campaign is split, and he is going home to Vermont on Wednesday to consider his options.
South of East India Dock Road and the Highway is Tory these days. Pretty unthinkable 25 years ago.
50 years ago it was Labour or Communist.
We've had some very active councillors who have really reached out and campaigned hard on housing in the area, protecting open spaces etc...
When I moved to the island 10 years ago I was told that we had the highest concentration of councils estates in the country on the Isle of Dogs. Not sure if that is/was ever true, but we certainly have some massive council high rises e.g. the Barkantine estate
I was sinbinned from pb.com yesterday, deserved or not if you're invited to a party you abide by the rules.
I've just watched the Neil/Benn interview, jeez as a Leaver I wish that could be broadcast every night on BBC 1.
Nigel v Dave tomorrow, this is what Nigel has waited years for, to debate the EU with the PM on prime time tv. No idea what will happen but I don't mind admitting its like the North London derby for me, agonising. Its a pivotal part of the campaign for me, neither can win it tomorrow but either could blow it big time.
Are they going head to head??
I thought Cameron had refused this
*confused*
9.00 tomorrow, ITV, Wembley. Not sure of the format but they're on together.
Fisticuffs guaranteed.
Cameron will play the fruitcake/racist card, Nigel will goad Flashman and appeal to the ITV audience (its not C4 or BBC3).
This is an interesting passage on Cameron, the EU and the "reform", written a year ago
"Once a half-presentable package of regressive reforms has been assembled to appease the Tory party, it will then be put to a public vote, accompanied by a barrage of big business-led scaremongering about the economic consequences of voting no. With the entire establishment and both main opposition parties signed up to a blank cheque yes vote, there are likely to be no mainstream demands for progressive EU reform..
But it’s essential that the case for radical change in Europe – and a break with its anti-democratic, corporate-controlled structures – is not abandoned to the right."
I'm amazed at how some of the PB Tories / PB Burleys have turned against Cameron. The man who has taken the right out of the wilderness is getting slaughtered by the rightwing posters who live on this blog. Even I am aghast at some of the insults that have been thrown at him here. FFS he won you lot two elections - prior to him your beloved Tories were getting murdered time after time.
Cameron has detoxified the Tories. It seems some of the loons and fruitcakes on here want to re-toxify the party again.
My Youtube viewing has thrown up the same ad twice now by Vote Leave - "Paving the Road from Ankara".
It's from a video of a Cameron speech - the title comes from his words - and it's interspersed with a video of the Turkish Parliament having a punch up last month.
Meaningless to show a chart over 4 years or more.
Far from it.
It shows that the pound is higher than it has been for most of the last few years.
Remain are one step away from bringing on Elvis or unveiling a tombstone.
Crap. Can you tell me when it's been significantly lower in the last three years? I was getting 140 last year. Now it's around 123. Your propaganda is just tedious
Pursuant to my longstanding (circa Autumn 2015) prediction of a LEAVE 55% REMAIN 45% result, I placed a £500 bet on LEAVE@5/2 on Friday June 3rd. That was topped up today Monday June 6th with a £250 bet on LEAVE@4/2 . On the basis that one should never bet more than one can lose, that concludes my betting activity on this event.
Frankly, I will be *very* happy if I lose every penny. But one bets with big head not little head.
South of East India Dock Road and the Highway is Tory these days. Pretty unthinkable 25 years ago.
50 years ago it was Labour or Communist.
We've had some very active councillors who have really reached out and campaigned hard on housing in the area, protecting open spaces etc...
When I moved to the island 10 years ago I was told that we had the highest concentration of councils estates in the country on the Isle of Dogs. Not sure if that is/was ever true, but we certainly have some massive council high rises e.g. the Barkantine estate
They were trying to sell that off, so I'm led to believe.
It's one of the least hospitable estates in east and north London.
Thirty years ago they were classified as 'hard to let' and were giving them to anyone who would move into them.
Back on topic: I found some slightly old figures from HES (2013/14) showing 1.3m UK national students enrolled at UK universities on full time courses. A Santander study quoted in the Guardian said 22% live at home, which leaves approx. 1m students living away from home at term time that may need to re-register to vote in June.
Add to that the number of people turning 18/moving home etc... and there's going to need to be a real rush of people to register tomorrow.
How big a spike do we think there will be and will the government website cope?
Very small, I doubt most students are remotely engaged in the process. They probably have turnout about 40%.
My Youtube viewing has thrown up the same ad twice now by Vote Leave - "Paving the Road from Ankara".
It's from a video of a Cameron speech - the title comes from his words - and it's interspersed with a video of the Turkish Parliament having a punch up last month.
Meaningless to show a chart over 4 years or more.
Far from it.
It shows that the pound is higher than it has been for most of the last few years.
Remain are one step away from bringing on Elvis or unveiling a tombstone.
Crap. Can you tell me when it's been significantly lower in the last three years? I was getting 140 last year. Now it's around 123. Your propaganda is just tedious
Why don't you bother looking at what's posted instead of talking out of your arse day after day?
Pursuant to my longstanding (circa Autumn 2015) prediction of a LEAVE 55% REMAIN 45% result, I placed a £500 bet on LEAVE@5/2 on Friday June 3rd. That was topped up today Monday June 6th with a £250 bet on LEAVE@4/2 . On the basis that one should never bet more than one can lose, that concludes my betting activity on this event.
Frankly, I will be *very* happy if I lose every penny. But one bets with big head not little head.
South of East India Dock Road and the Highway is Tory these days. Pretty unthinkable 25 years ago.
50 years ago it was Labour or Communist.
Has it become more wealthy or is it like other wwc areas trending towards the Tories ?
Both really. We've had a *lot* of yuppie flats built, but quite a number of them are occupied by second home owners, foreign bankers not eligible to vote etc... so the statistics on the wealth in the area are not entirely reflective of the electorate.
As a fun fact of the day - Sam Allardyce and one of the One Directioners (Liam?) moved to the Island a few years back.
I was sinbinned from pb.com yesterday, deserved or not if you're invited to a party you abide by the rules.
I've just watched the Neil/Benn interview, jeez as a Leaver I wish that could be broadcast every night on BBC 1.
Nigel v Dave tomorrow, this is what Nigel has waited years for, to debate the EU with the PM on prime time tv. No idea what will happen but I don't mind admitting its like the North London derby for me, agonising. Its a pivotal part of the campaign for me, neither can win it tomorrow but either could blow it big time.
Are they going head to head??
I thought Cameron had refused this
*confused*
9.00 tomorrow, ITV, Wembley. Not sure of the format but they're on together.
Fisticuffs guaranteed.
Cameron will play the fruitcake/racist card, Nigel will goad Flashman and appeal to the ITV audience (its not C4 or BBC3).
Either one has the chance to blow it big time.
No, they are not on together - as others have previously posted.
I'm amazed at how some of the PB Tories / PB Burleys have turned against Cameron. The man who has taken the right out of the wilderness is getting slaughtered by the rightwing posters who live on this blog. Even I am aghast at some of the insults that have been thrown at him here. FFS he won you lot two elections - prior to him your beloved Tories were getting murdered time after time.
Cameron has detoxified the Tories. It seems some of the loons and fruitcakes on here want to re-toxify the party again.
Pursuant to my longstanding (circa Autumn 2015) prediction of a LEAVE 55% REMAIN 45% result, I placed a £500 bet on LEAVE@5/2 on Friday June 3rd. That was topped up today Monday June 6th with a £250 bet on LEAVE@4/2 . On the basis that one should never bet more than one can lose, that concludes my betting activity on this event.
Frankly, I will be *very* happy if I lose every penny. But one bets with big head not little head.
One question:when did 2/1 become 4/2?
It was easier for me to write 4/2.
Oh right, I've just never heard a punter or bookie say 4/2.
I'm amazed at how some of the PB Tories / PB Burleys have turned against Cameron. The man who has taken the right out of the wilderness is getting slaughtered by the rightwing posters who live on this blog. Even I am aghast at some of the insults that have been thrown at him here. FFS he won you lot two elections - prior to him your beloved Tories were getting murdered time after time.
Cameron has detoxified the Tories. It seems some of the loons and fruitcakes on here want to re-toxify the party again.
Not my fight, but as an observer it runs like this (remember that EU transcends party).
All Mr Cameron had to do was deliver on what he said he'd do wrt the EU renegotiation: i.e. a good package or recommend Leave.
He didn't even try to get a good package and is going hard for Remain.
Thought: if LEAVE are possibly taking 60-80% of the WWC Labour vote in London, then that is seriously bad news for REMAIN
Presumably the proportions could be as bad or even worse in other cities and regions - the north, Midlands etc
Back of fag packet: that means REMAIN will have to win every single middle class Labour voter, and all the LDs Greens Nats everyone, and they will all have to vote, to make up for the 60/40 LEAVE split in Tories and 95/5 split in Kippers.
Ooof. Painfully close.
Of Labour's London coalition, the only element which is passionately Remain is the liberal middle class. WWC voters are hostile, and I don't detect any great enthusiasm amongst ethnic minority voters for Remain.
My local canvassing group is certainly not pale, male and stale.
Pursuant to my longstanding (circa Autumn 2015) prediction of a LEAVE 55% REMAIN 45% result, I placed a £500 bet on LEAVE@5/2 on Friday June 3rd. That was topped up today Monday June 6th with a £250 bet on LEAVE@4/2 . On the basis that one should never bet more than one can lose, that concludes my betting activity on this event.
Frankly, I will be *very* happy if I lose every penny. But one bets with big head not little head.
One question:when did 2/1 become 4/2?
It was easier for me to write 4/2.
Oh right, I've just never heard a punter or bookie say 4/2.
The fishiest thing about British Eurosceptics is not the narrowness of their obsession but the breadth of their movement. Here is a coalition of economic liberals and nostalgic statists who dislike the EU for opposite reasons that cannot both be valid and who, for the tactical imperative of campaign harmony, pretend not to notice.
Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, Daniel Hannan, Nigel Lawson: the principal Leavers are ultraliberal Conservatives who smell in Brussels a will to stifle and ossify. For them, exit can Singaporise this country, priming it for an unforgivingly competitive century as a zone of light regulation and porous capital borders. (An account of Britain as it is, you might think). But for almost everyone who will vote their way on June 23, the EU is a callous enabler of markets not a check on them, an intrusion by the outside world not a barrier to it. Their picture of a sovereign Britain evokes Japan more than Singapore: a stable culture, a paternalist economy, a place that forgoes some growth for cohesion.
Goodnight all. I think my wife is getting fed up with me being on a smartphone
I'm hooked to an Oculus Rift for the totally immersive pb experience
Have you tried a Hololens? AR is where it's at.
I have tried them all..Big problem with hololens in regarding restricted field of vision, but much more positive for AR / MR down the line than VR....just not any of the current generation....
Goodnight all. I think my wife is getting fed up with me being on a smartphone
I'm hooked to an Oculus Rift for the totally immersive pb experience
Get a Vive, it's awesome.
Vive is better, but no hand tracking & need a super pc. I used a it with pc with titan x 's in SLI & still needed more horsepower. Supposedly 1080's are better specifically for VR, which I hoping to try in a couple of weeks.
The lack of hand tracking & the damn cable / heavy headset kills the immersion IMO.
I'm amazed at how some of the PB Tories / PB Burleys have turned against Cameron. The man who has taken the right out of the wilderness is getting slaughtered by the rightwing posters who live on this blog. Even I am aghast at some of the insults that have been thrown at him here. FFS he won you lot two elections - prior to him your beloved Tories were getting murdered time after time.
Cameron has detoxified the Tories. It seems some of the loons and fruitcakes on here want to re-toxify the party again.
PB Burleys!!! Haven't heard that one in a while.
Think Tim formerly of this parish came up with that one!
Wasn't it used to refer to the folk on here who slagged off of the London Olympics opening ceremony, the same ceremony that 99% of the human race thought was amazing. Think Aidan Burley and a few loons on here though it was multicultural garbage!
Pursuant to my longstanding (circa Autumn 2015) prediction of a LEAVE 55% REMAIN 45% result, I placed a £500 bet on LEAVE@5/2 on Friday June 3rd. That was topped up today Monday June 6th with a £250 bet on LEAVE@4/2 . On the basis that one should never bet more than one can lose, that concludes my betting activity on this event.
Frankly, I will be *very* happy if I lose every penny. But one bets with big head not little head.
One question:when did 2/1 become 4/2?
It was easier for me to write 4/2.
Oh right, I've just never heard a punter or bookie say 4/2.
Easier comparing 5/2 with 4/2?
Maybe, but as I write there's £15k available at 3.2 on Betfair.
Pursuant to my longstanding (circa Autumn 2015) prediction of a LEAVE 55% REMAIN 45% result, I placed a £500 bet on LEAVE@5/2 on Friday June 3rd. That was topped up today Monday June 6th with a £250 bet on LEAVE@4/2 . On the basis that one should never bet more than one can lose, that concludes my betting activity on this event.
Frankly, I will be *very* happy if I lose every penny. But one bets with big head not little head.
One question:when did 2/1 become 4/2?
It was easier for me to write 4/2.
Oh right, I've just never heard a punter or bookie say 4/2.
When I bet I put the money in an envelope and write the money, date, odds, etc on the front. I give the money to the bookie and put the slip in the envelope and seal it. The envelopes are then filed. This keeps the slips fresh and prevents them getting lost. Should the bet be successful the envelopes are unsealed and the uncrumpled slip handed across, thus ensuring a clean swipe on the laser scanner. Should the bet be unsuccessful, the envelope can be shredded.
The first envelope had 5/2. The second envelope had 4/2 (instead of 2/1) written on it to match the first.
My Youtube viewing has thrown up the same ad twice now by Vote Leave - "Paving the Road from Ankara".
It's from a video of a Cameron speech - the title comes from his words - and it's interspersed with a video of the Turkish Parliament having a punch up last month.
Meaningless to show a chart over 4 years or more.
Far from it.
It shows that the pound is higher than it has been for most of the last few years.
Remain are one step away from bringing on Elvis or unveiling a tombstone.
Crap. Can you tell me when it's been significantly lower in the last three years? I was getting 140 last year. Now it's around 123. Your propaganda is just tedious
Sorry Roger wrong again. The pound last year may have been around 1.40 but for the previous 3 years it never went above 1.27, was below 1.22 for the whole of 2013 and at 6pm this evening was at 1.273 which is higher than at almost any time since 2009.
Pursuant to my longstanding (circa Autumn 2015) prediction of a LEAVE 55% REMAIN 45% result, I placed a £500 bet on LEAVE@5/2 on Friday June 3rd. That was topped up today Monday June 6th with a £250 bet on LEAVE@4/2 . On the basis that one should never bet more than one can lose, that concludes my betting activity on this event.
Frankly, I will be *very* happy if I lose every penny. But one bets with big head not little head.
One question:when did 2/1 become 4/2?
It was easier for me to write 4/2.
Oh right, I've just never heard a punter or bookie say 4/2.
When I bet I put the money in an envelope and write the money, date, odds, etc on the front. I give the money to the bookie and put the slip in the envelope and seal it. The envelopes are then filed. This keeps the slips fresh and prevents them getting lost. Should the bet be successful the envelopes are unsealed and the uncrumpled slip handed across, thus ensuring a clean swipe on the laser scanner. Should the bet be unsuccessful, the envelope can be shredded.
The first envelope had 5/2. The second envelope had 4/2 (instead of 2/1) written on it to match the first.
Yes, I do iron my socks...
Weirdo.
When I go to a bookies they scan the betting slip and give me a facsimile copy.
The fishiest thing about British Eurosceptics is not the narrowness of their obsession but the breadth of their movement. Here is a coalition of economic liberals and nostalgic statists who dislike the EU for opposite reasons that cannot both be valid and who, for the tactical imperative of campaign harmony, pretend not to notice.
Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, Daniel Hannan, Nigel Lawson: the principal Leavers are ultraliberal Conservatives who smell in Brussels a will to stifle and ossify. For them, exit can Singaporise this country, priming it for an unforgivingly competitive century as a zone of light regulation and porous capital borders. (An account of Britain as it is, you might think). But for almost everyone who will vote their way on June 23, the EU is a callous enabler of markets not a check on them, an intrusion by the outside world not a barrier to it. Their picture of a sovereign Britain evokes Japan more than Singapore: a stable culture, a paternalist economy, a place that forgoes some growth for cohesion.
Conveniently missing the point that whatever your vision for Britain it can only be achieved if one has the ability to get rid of the politicians by voting them out. Something we cannot do with the EU.
In the end it doesn't matter which vision is the more attractive or more 'correct' what matters is that the electorate get to choose it rather than having it imposed on them.
It looks like, to me, that the phone and online polls are converging on a statistical tie. That could make it very close indeed, and down to differential turnout.
Comments
Most of London still doesn't look like Haringey, Hackney, Tower Hamlets, Newham.
I'm just reporting what I've been told. I'll share what I learn when I next go out myself.
I can't think of a single one.
There are some in outer London: Eltham, Plumstead etc.
Is there time for Eurocrats to get any Eurovow into EU law?
There are lots of areas in inner London where shiny new buildings have gone up, but the vast majority still live in the old council housing that's been there for years. They still constitute the bulk of the population apart from in the most chi-chi areas.
Funnily enough, I'd expect them to be strongly pro-Leave. But they will be overwhelmingly outvoted in Inner London, and throughout London as a whole.
No leading figure in Lab supports Brexit.
It may be suggested Lab would just implement it - but how? There are massively complicated negotiations to be held. How are they going to negotiate to do something they don't support? The whole thing just isn't credible.
Would Nick P like to give his view on this?
Respondents were asked what impact they felt leaving (whether it was Scotland leaving the Union or the UK leaving the EU) would have on their nation’s finances. The results show that approaching half (46 per cent) of Scots thought the country would suffer economically by voting to leave the UK compared to just over a third (34 per cent) of Britons who think the UK will be worse off if it left the EU. Furthermore, Brits are more likely to think that leaving the EU would make no difference to their national finances than Scots did when faced with the prospect of leaving the UK."
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2016/06/remain-campaigns-project-fear-losing-its-mojo
Add to that the number of people turning 18/moving home etc... and there's going to need to be a real rush of people to register tomorrow.
How big a spike do we think there will be and will the government website cope?
This is also the main reason not to have such a vow as it would effectively give the Euro elite an eject button for the UK - they could renege on part of the deal knowing that it would be politically impossible for the UK not to carry out the threat of Brexit.
Eltham and Plumstead might also be counted as Inner London as they're in the borough of Greenwich.
I've just watched the Neil/Benn interview, jeez as a Leaver I wish that could be broadcast every night on BBC 1.
Nigel v Dave tomorrow, this is what Nigel has waited years for, to debate the EU with the PM on prime time tv. No idea what will happen but I don't mind admitting its like the North London derby for me, agonising. Its a pivotal part of the campaign for me, neither can win it tomorrow but either could blow it big time.
Somebody I've been campaigning with for months has just finished canvassing an area in South East London. It's still a Tory ward, but bordered by a Labour one and a bit more socially mixed than where we went at the weekend.
Just over 60% for leave.
Caveat Lots of people are out; this is only from those who responded.
50 years ago it was Labour or Communist.
Sadly that will be the only phone poll this week
I think you mean Rotherhithe – the Roehampton I know is certainly not a working class area!
But yes that clutch of districts in SE London is all technically inner London and ripe pro-Leave territory.
Is like last year's question time. 30 mins Q&A with the audience for Cameron, 30 min Q&A with the audience for Farage.
They aren't debating head to to head.
Frankly, I will be *very* happy if I lose every penny. But one bets with big head not little head.
In other news, the Bernie Sanders campaign is split, and he is going home to Vermont on Wednesday to consider his options.
Nah - Top Gear is more tormenting...
When I moved to the island 10 years ago I was told that we had the highest concentration of councils estates in the country on the Isle of Dogs. Not sure if that is/was ever true, but we certainly have some massive council high rises e.g. the Barkantine estate
Fisticuffs guaranteed.
Cameron will play the fruitcake/racist card, Nigel will goad Flashman and appeal to the ITV audience (its not C4 or BBC3).
Either one has the chance to blow it big time.
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/2015guide/region-london/
Cameron has detoxified the Tories. It seems some of the loons and fruitcakes on here want to re-toxify the party again.
It's one of the least hospitable estates in east and north London.
Thirty years ago they were classified as 'hard to let' and were giving them to anyone who would move into them.
Good news for leave I think.
As a fun fact of the day - Sam Allardyce and one of the One Directioners (Liam?) moved to the Island a few years back.
Confirmed in link:
http://www.itv.com/news/2016-05-11/david-cameron-and-nigel-farage-to-take-part-in-live-eu-referendum-event-on-itv/
All Mr Cameron had to do was deliver on what he said he'd do wrt the EU renegotiation: i.e. a good package or recommend Leave.
He didn't even try to get a good package and is going hard for Remain.
My local canvassing group is certainly not pale, male and stale.
Michael Gove, Boris Johnson, Daniel Hannan, Nigel Lawson: the principal Leavers are ultraliberal Conservatives who smell in Brussels a will to stifle and ossify. For them, exit can Singaporise this country, priming it for an unforgivingly competitive century as a zone of light regulation and porous capital borders. (An account of Britain as it is, you might think). But for almost everyone who will vote their way on June 23, the EU is a callous enabler of markets not a check on them, an intrusion by the outside world not a barrier to it. Their picture of a sovereign Britain evokes Japan more than Singapore: a stable culture, a paternalist economy, a place that forgoes some growth for cohesion.
https://next.ft.com/content/f29085f2-2bcd-11e6-a18d-a96ab29e3c95?ftcamp=published_links/rss/comment/feed//product
Farage goes first (30 mins).
Then Cameron goes second (30 mins).
Gives Cameron opportunity to rebut Farage and Farage has no comeback.
Although Miliband going second after Cameron on 2015 GE QT didn't help him.
The lack of hand tracking & the damn cable / heavy headset kills the immersion IMO.
Wasn't it used to refer to the folk on here who slagged off of the London Olympics opening ceremony, the same ceremony that 99% of the human race thought was amazing. Think Aidan Burley and a few loons on here though it was multicultural garbage!
The first envelope had 5/2. The second envelope had 4/2 (instead of 2/1) written on it to match the first.
Yes, I do iron my socks...
http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=EUR&view=12h
Remain 48 (-3)
Leave 47 (+1)
When I go to a bookies they scan the betting slip and give me a facsimile copy.
On friday June 3rd Leave were longer than 5/2.
Remain 43%
Leave 42%
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/739924863943626752
NEW THREAD NEW THREAD
In the end it doesn't matter which vision is the more attractive or more 'correct' what matters is that the electorate get to choose it rather than having it imposed on them.
Does YouGov reflect Major intervention?
It was looking very, very good for Leave until this YouGov.
Has Major turned the tide? Remember Major stopped Brown calling a 2007 GE - and thus allowed Cameron to become PM. Is he now going to save him again?
80% Leave just seems too high.
NEW THREAD NEW THREAD
Gulp.
A good antidote to the Brexit debate.
Hope it's MoE variation.
https://twitter.com/UKIPSloughWind/status/739912765645590528