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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As voter registration for the referendum closes tomorrow so

SystemSystem Posts: 11,705
edited June 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As voter registration for the referendum closes tomorrow some facts and figures

Since the launch of the Electoral Commission’s public awareness campaign on 15 May, over 1.35 million people have applied to register to vote online across Great Britain.

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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    First like Remain
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Second Like Leave (I wish)
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited June 2016
    Fourth like Limp Dems.
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    I think today is unequivocally the turning point.

    3 polls put leave ahead.

    Cameron stands next to Hattie and starts going on about bombs.

    Kinnock Junior gets up on his hind legs and says ITS ALWIGHT,ITS ALWIGHT WE WILL JUST IGNORE THE RESULT.

    And now Neil kebabs Benn.

    - and pb remainers start throwing in the towel
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    There were 46.4m voters registered at GE2015. How many are there today taking into account all of the above?
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956
    FPT
    SeanT said:

    tyson said:

    I agree with you, sadly. Benn is stupor incarnated in human form.

    And this is my last post on pbCOM on this excruciating matter. I am upset, my wife thinks I'm obsessed, I've voted anyhow and not going to convince anyone here anyhow. I wish Cameron hadn't left this important decision in the hands of the British lumpen.

    Cheers for now pbCOM, I'll probably be drawn back for the US election so best of wishes to JackW, and thanks to Lucky for warding me off Rice Crispies (my favourite snack) in the interim. Ali,,,Bumaye....

    SeanT said:

    Good god Benn is awful. A dry, snooty, mealy mouthed technocrat.

    Just the worst voice for REMAIN.

    Enjoy your break. I too am obsessed, from the other side, and my kids think I'm nuts, and I'm not sure my GF is talking to me.

    I will be glad when it is over.
    Agreed. My GF is asking her friends to vote remain 'if for no other reason than to prevent him (me) being smug for the rest of our lives' - don't think I've played that one especially well....

    Hols for me on Wednesday - off to St. Brelade's Bay for some rest, might even catch a bit of the seniors tour golf!
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,595

    I think today is unequivocally the turning point.

    3 polls put leave ahead.

    Cameron stands next to Hattie and starts going on about bombs.

    Kinnock Junior gets up on his hind legs and says ITS ALWIGHT,ITS ALWIGHT WE WILL JUST IGNORE THE RESULT.

    And now Neil kebabs Benn.

    - and pb remainers start throwing in the towel

    The Day The Polls Turned eh?

    *chortle*
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    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,956

    I think today is unequivocally the turning point.

    3 polls put leave ahead.

    Cameron stands next to Hattie and starts going on about bombs.

    Kinnock Junior gets up on his hind legs and says ITS ALWIGHT,ITS ALWIGHT WE WILL JUST IGNORE THE RESULT.

    And now Neil kebabs Benn.

    - and pb remainers start throwing in the towel

    The Day The Polls Turned eh?

    *chortle*
    Not a good track record with that phrase....

    My main thought this morning was that Kinnock and Straw juniors have not a fraction of the political nous of their peres.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    SeanT said:

    surbiton said:

    First like Remain

    You ok, hun?
    I may have to revise my 58 - 42 prediction thanks to Cameron & Osborne. This time they were lying [ exaggerating ] to the Tories and the media murdered them.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    SeanT said:

    I think today is unequivocally the turning point.

    3 polls put leave ahead.

    Cameron stands next to Hattie and starts going on about bombs.

    Kinnock Junior gets up on his hind legs and says ITS ALWIGHT,ITS ALWIGHT WE WILL JUST IGNORE THE RESULT.

    And now Neil kebabs Benn.

    - and pb remainers start throwing in the towel

    Far too early for any complacency, let along gloating

    It only takes one phone poll from IPSOS showing a 10 point REMAIN lead for all this energy and optimism to fizzle away, very quickly

    REMAIN are still, rightly, favourites. Though it is much closer than we all anticipated.

    Eyes down for the last 17 days.. And I'm going for a much needed walk.
    21:59 on Thursday June 23 is too early for gloating.

    As any EICIPM gloaters from 21:59 May 7 2015 may remember.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    MP_SE said:

    Fourth like Limp Dems.

    5th ?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    Just catching up with the discussion on the last thread. Agreed that Neil is the premier political interviewer in the realm. Would be a shame to lose him from Daily Politics/This Week though!
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    DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215

    There were 46.4m voters registered at GE2015. How many are there today taking into account all of the above?

    It will be about the same.
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    Paul_BedfordshirePaul_Bedfordshire Posts: 3,632
    edited June 2016
    Collapsing to a three week low and trumpeted by the ghost of a newspaper lol
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    edited June 2016


    Far too early for any complacency, let along gloating

    It only takes one phone poll from IPSOS showing a 10 point REMAIN lead for all this energy and optimism to fizzle away, very quickly

    REMAIN are still, rightly, favourites. Though it is much closer than we all anticipated.

    Eyes down for the last 17 days.. And I'm going for a much needed walk.

    Would u campaign for Leave such as canvassing?
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited June 2016
    Let's see how the £'s collapse is covered by the evening news bulletins. Just in time for holiday spends to get more expensive. Thank you, Brexit !
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    Goodnight all. I think my wife is getting fed up with me being on a smartphone
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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    FPT re: Neil interviews:

    I do worry about both Farage and IDS to come. If Neil asks Farage about his ridiculous Cologne sex attack comments then he should just apologies there and then and say he got it wrong, and contrast that with the entrenched positions of the remain campaign. That's the moment I fear when Farage comes up against Cameron against Wembley, and if he tries to get too clever and use a football analogy or something of the sort as well.

    IDS I'd have the same worry as Benn jnr - not quick enough thinking on his feet to avoid being pole-axed by Neil, but he's not as bad as Benn jnr on that score.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    FPT
    tyson said:

    I agree with you, sadly. Benn is stupor incarnated in human form.

    And this is my last post on pbCOM on this excruciating matter. I am upset, my wife thinks I'm obsessed, I've voted anyhow and not going to convince anyone here anyhow. I wish Cameron hadn't left this important decision in the hands of the British lumpen.

    Cheers for now pbCOM, I'll probably be drawn back for the US election so best of wishes to JackW, and thanks to Lucky for warding me off Rice Crispies (my favourite snack) in the interim. Ali,,,Bumaye....

    SeanT said:

    Good god Benn is awful. A dry, snooty, mealy mouthed technocrat.

    Just the worst voice for REMAIN.

    I know how you feel. I am fortunate in not being directly affected by the outcome, so can be fairly relaxed on the outcome. I will vote Remain, as are my sibs, son and other half. We are sick of the shouting and want to get onto the voting.

    It has been an appalling campaign by both sides. I see why so many Scots groan at the prospect of having another neverendum.

    On the positive side I will be a grand up if Leave win. It always was the value bet.

    Hope to see you at another PB drinkies.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    surbiton said:

    Let's see how the £'s collapse is covered by the evening news bulletins.

    It won't be, except on the busines news.
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    @SeanT is dead right. LEAVERS need to keep their message discipline.
    At best it's TCTC, with perhaps a smidgen of quiet optimism,
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    If someone registers to vote at uni, could they still vote at their home town, since all uni students will be a t home by June 23rd.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited June 2016
    The Pound's 'collapse'

    https://encrypted.google.com/finance/chart?biw=1517&bih=714&espv=2&q=CURRENCY:GBPEUR&tkr=1&p=5Y&chst=vkc&chs=270x94&chsc=0.8999999761581421&ei=fstVV5vSDozagAbYkqG4CQ

    My Youtube viewing has thrown up the same ad twice now by Vote Leave - "Paving the Road from Ankara".

    It's from a video of a Cameron speech - the title comes from his words - and it's interspersed with a video of the Turkish Parliament having a punch up last month.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,595

    @SeanT is dead right. LEAVERS need to keep their message discipline.
    At best it's TCTC, with perhaps a smidgen of quiet optimism,

    Leavers are in danger of doing a Sion Simon.

    Very shortly there will be a referendum in which Leave will win.

    If you're not sure what I'm talking about, I don't think this piece has ever been linked on PB

    http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase
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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    Scott_P said:
    What a load of nonsense Mike - its recovered today to $1.4460 area now, from the 1.4352 low last night - today registers nowhere near a large down day in forex terms.

    Sterling needs to fall, name the last time anywhere that a developed country in the world was running a 7% current account deficit? - the worst as a % of GDP since records began in 1774 in the UK!
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Leavers are in danger of doing a Sion Simon.

    Talking of...

    @jonwalker121: Former MP Sion Simon becomes first politician to confirm officially he wants to stand for West Midlands mayor https://t.co/z5l83ynFlF
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    Remain are hampered by the antics of Corbyn & McDonnell who remain unwilling to appear with Cameron and Osborne. Bennett chucks her toys off her bike because she was expected to drive off in a car for some stage managed event. Cameron bangs on about bombs. Benn turns up on live TV and fails on details. Then Corbyn's Twitter account goes after a former supporter.

    Leave are hindered by Galloway's presence, Farage's inability to sound reasonable without making questionable assertions about rapists. Johnson citing obscure regulations on the length of bananas. Gove does a good interview on a sunny Friday night, during half term, to an audience who have found the programme by accident after surfing through 50 channels.

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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    edited June 2016
    chestnut said:

    The Pound's 'collapse'

    https://encrypted.google.com/finance/chart?biw=1517&bih=714&espv=2&q=CURRENCY:GBPEUR&tkr=1&p=5Y&chst=vkc&chs=270x94&chsc=0.8999999761581421&ei=fstVV5vSDozagAbYkqG4CQ

    My Youtube viewing has thrown up the same ad twice now by Vote Leave - "Paving the Road from Ankara".

    It's from a video of a Cameron speech - the title comes from his words - and it's interspersed with a video of the Turkish Parliament having a punch up last month.

    To be fair, a plot on that scale wouldn't have sufficient resolution to see a short term drop in the last week, for example.
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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    I'd like this chop and no real drama on Sterling to continue in the markets over the next 17 days so we don't get any stupid remain campaign propoganda:

    http://www.pretzelcharts.com/2016/06/spx-and-bkx-still-chop-zone.html

    But I think its about to give way later on this week. Not often that I like to see calm markets!
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,727
    chestnut said:

    The Pound's 'collapse'

    https://encrypted.google.com/finance/chart?biw=1517&bih=714&espv=2&q=CURRENCY:GBPEUR&tkr=1&p=5Y&chst=vkc&chs=270x94&chsc=0.8999999761581421&ei=fstVV5vSDozagAbYkqG4CQ

    My Youtube viewing has thrown up the same ad twice now by Vote Leave - "Paving the Road from Ankara".

    It's from a video of a Cameron speech - the title comes from his words - and it's interspersed with a video of the Turkish Parliament having a punch up last month.

    Meaningless to show a chart over 4 years or more.
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    surbiton said:

    Let's see how the £'s collapse is covered by the evening news bulletins. Just in time for holiday spends to get more expensive. Thank you, Brexit !

    On this date in 2009 the £ was €1.14, were you slagging of Gordon Brown for the state of our currency back then?
    http://www.xe.com/currencytables/?from=GBP&date=2009-06-06
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    "One development that could shift investor sentiment is the upcoming referendum in the United Kingdom. A U.K. vote to exit the European Union could have significant economic repercussions." J Yellen

    Could the UK tip the world into a recession ? After all, we are supposed to be the 5th largest economy. If we go into a sharp recession , that could have an impact.
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    LadyBucketLadyBucket Posts: 590
    Hilary Benn constantly licking his lips is probably one of the irritating habits of any politician I can think of. He virtually confirmed that it is Labour's intention to carry on with uncontrolled immigration and Leave should go big on this.

    One person who has avoided being dragged into the PM's mess is Ruth Davidson. If she has any sense (which, she has) she will stay well away.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    surbiton said:

    Let's see how the £'s collapse is covered by the evening news bulletins. Just in time for holiday spends to get more expensive. Thank you, Brexit !

    What pound collapse?
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited June 2016

    surbiton said:

    Let's see how the £'s collapse is covered by the evening news bulletins. Just in time for holiday spends to get more expensive. Thank you, Brexit !

    On this date in 2009 the £ was €1.14, were you slagging of Gordon Brown for the state of our currency back then?
    http://www.xe.com/currencytables/?from=GBP&date=2009-06-06
    That was in the immediate aftermath caused by crooked *ankers. At the end of 2008 the pound sank to €1.09. However, Brown's excellent stewardship brought the pound up to € 1.14 as you point out in June 2009.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    surbiton said:

    "One development that could shift investor sentiment is the upcoming referendum in the United Kingdom. A U.K. vote to exit the European Union could have significant economic repercussions." J Yellen

    Could the UK tip the world into a recession ? After all, we are supposed to be the 5th largest economy. If we go into a sharp recession , that could have an impact.

    QTWAIN since we won't go into a sharp recession.
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    nunu said:

    If someone registers to vote at uni, could they still vote at their home town, since all uni students will be a t home by June 23rd.

    either a postal vote or proxy or re-register at home tomorrow.
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    DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    dr_spyn said:

    Remain are hampered by the antics of Corbyn & McDonnell who remain unwilling to appear with Cameron and Osborne.

    Labour could take a lesson from the Scottish Referendum, if you want to win you need message discipline and put party politics to one side.

    If Remain are trailing in the polls with a day or two to go I expect Corbyn and Cameron to make a joint appearance.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    chestnut said:

    The Pound's 'collapse'

    https://encrypted.google.com/finance/chart?biw=1517&bih=714&espv=2&q=CURRENCY:GBPEUR&tkr=1&p=5Y&chst=vkc&chs=270x94&chsc=0.8999999761581421&ei=fstVV5vSDozagAbYkqG4CQ

    My Youtube viewing has thrown up the same ad twice now by Vote Leave - "Paving the Road from Ankara".

    It's from a video of a Cameron speech - the title comes from his words - and it's interspersed with a video of the Turkish Parliament having a punch up last month.

    Meaningless to show a chart over 4 years or more.
    No it's meaningless to show a chart over an hour with a dodgy Y-axis.

    This chart shows that despite Brexit looming for months the pound has stayed within normal boundaries and continues to do so right this second.
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    chestnut said:

    The Pound's 'collapse'

    https://encrypted.google.com/finance/chart?biw=1517&bih=714&espv=2&q=CURRENCY:GBPEUR&tkr=1&p=5Y&chst=vkc&chs=270x94&chsc=0.8999999761581421&ei=fstVV5vSDozagAbYkqG4CQ

    My Youtube viewing has thrown up the same ad twice now by Vote Leave - "Paving the Road from Ankara".

    It's from a video of a Cameron speech - the title comes from his words - and it's interspersed with a video of the Turkish Parliament having a punch up last month.

    Meaningless to show a chart over 4 years or more.
    Far from it.

    It shows that the pound is higher than it has been for most of the last few years.

    Remain are one step away from bringing on Elvis or unveiling a tombstone.
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    glwglw Posts: 9,554
    edited June 2016
    chestnut said:

    The Pound's 'collapse'

    Terrifying.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    chestnut said:

    The Pound's 'collapse'

    https://encrypted.google.com/finance/chart?biw=1517&bih=714&espv=2&q=CURRENCY:GBPEUR&tkr=1&p=5Y&chst=vkc&chs=270x94&chsc=0.8999999761581421&ei=fstVV5vSDozagAbYkqG4CQ

    My Youtube viewing has thrown up the same ad twice now by Vote Leave - "Paving the Road from Ankara".

    It's from a video of a Cameron speech - the title comes from his words - and it's interspersed with a video of the Turkish Parliament having a punch up last month.

    Meaningless to show a chart over 4 years or more.
    No it's meaningless to show a chart over an hour with a dodgy Y-axis.

    This chart shows that despite Brexit looming for months the pound has stayed within normal boundaries and continues to do so right this second.
    But leave us only become more likely in recent weeks. Brexit may have been looking for months, but certainly not four years.
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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    I guess I feel a bit like the average Labour activist felt in mid-April 1997 - hopeful but nervous given electoral history, and somewhat refusing to believe that the polling is as good for leave as it appears on the surface..........

    As I said over the weekend, the leave campaign has to pound the message that there is NO STATUS QUO in this campaign to counter the inevitable late swing towards remain. The narrative about the UK being on hock for contributions to the EU budget was an excellent theme. Now they have to keep pushing the 'more Brussels' line if we stay in. Nothing wrong with the tactics today.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited June 2016
    After seeing Hilary Benn's carcrash, I am now very worried about the consequences for Labour of this referendum.

    Labour are essentially defending the status quo, which is toxic for any left-wing party, just as it was for Scottish Labour when they defended the status quo in the independence referendum. Benn saying that wages as they are now are just fine, that living standards are just fine, that high levels of immigration are an inevitability, that we shouldn't risk upsetting the apple-cart in case things go wrong......it was all very reminiscent of Alistair Darling defending the UK's status quo in one of the independence debates.

    Most Labour voters (whether they're working-class voters looking to improve their own circumstances, or the hopey-changey idealists who want to dream big about what can happen in future) do not want to hear that Things Can Never Get Better.
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    @SeanT is dead right. LEAVERS need to keep their message discipline.
    At best it's TCTC, with perhaps a smidgen of quiet optimism,

    Leavers are in danger of doing a Sion Simon.

    Very shortly there will be a referendum in which Leave will win.

    If you're not sure what I'm talking about, I don't think this piece has ever been linked on PB

    http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/conference/2007/09/labour-majority-increase
    Complacency is definitely the potential Achilles heel of LEAVE.
    Urban dictionary is normally quite useful when I'm not sure what you're referring to TSE.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    chestnut said:

    chestnut said:

    The Pound's 'collapse'

    https://encrypted.google.com/finance/chart?biw=1517&bih=714&espv=2&q=CURRENCY:GBPEUR&tkr=1&p=5Y&chst=vkc&chs=270x94&chsc=0.8999999761581421&ei=fstVV5vSDozagAbYkqG4CQ

    My Youtube viewing has thrown up the same ad twice now by Vote Leave - "Paving the Road from Ankara".

    It's from a video of a Cameron speech - the title comes from his words - and it's interspersed with a video of the Turkish Parliament having a punch up last month.

    Meaningless to show a chart over 4 years or more.
    Far from it.

    It shows that the pound is higher than it has been for most of the last few years.

    Remain are one step away from bringing on Elvis or unveiling a tombstone.
    They could bring Ken on to talk about Hitler.
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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    chestnut said:

    chestnut said:

    The Pound's 'collapse'

    https://encrypted.google.com/finance/chart?biw=1517&bih=714&espv=2&q=CURRENCY:GBPEUR&tkr=1&p=5Y&chst=vkc&chs=270x94&chsc=0.8999999761581421&ei=fstVV5vSDozagAbYkqG4CQ

    My Youtube viewing has thrown up the same ad twice now by Vote Leave - "Paving the Road from Ankara".

    It's from a video of a Cameron speech - the title comes from his words - and it's interspersed with a video of the Turkish Parliament having a punch up last month.

    Meaningless to show a chart over 4 years or more.
    Far from it.

    It shows that the pound is higher than it has been for most of the last few years.

    Remain are one step away from bringing on Elvis or unveiling a tombstone.
    That's broadly true against the Euro......which the average voter cares most about. Its not true about the US Dollar though, as we're in a long term downtrend preparing to collapse (irrespective of what happens in 17 days time) after hitting the GBPUSD 1.7185 high in July 2014
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Hilary Benn constantly licking his lips is probably one of the irritating habits of any politician I can think of. He virtually confirmed that it is Labour's intention to carry on with uncontrolled immigration and Leave should go big on this.

    One person who has avoided being dragged into the PM's mess is Ruth Davidson. If she has any sense (which, she has) she will stay well away.

    She is a great supporter of John Major.
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    RobD said:

    chestnut said:

    The Pound's 'collapse'

    https://encrypted.google.com/finance/chart?biw=1517&bih=714&espv=2&q=CURRENCY:GBPEUR&tkr=1&p=5Y&chst=vkc&chs=270x94&chsc=0.8999999761581421&ei=fstVV5vSDozagAbYkqG4CQ

    My Youtube viewing has thrown up the same ad twice now by Vote Leave - "Paving the Road from Ankara".

    It's from a video of a Cameron speech - the title comes from his words - and it's interspersed with a video of the Turkish Parliament having a punch up last month.

    Meaningless to show a chart over 4 years or more.
    No it's meaningless to show a chart over an hour with a dodgy Y-axis.

    This chart shows that despite Brexit looming for months the pound has stayed within normal boundaries and continues to do so right this second.
    But leave us only become more likely in recent weeks. Brexit may have been looking for months, but certainly not four years.
    Which is why a four year chart is so meaningful. If Brexit risk was a real disaster then we'd be looking at a chart showing that since that risk became real sterling had fallen recently to below what it was as standard over recent years.

    That is not the case though. Even at this second, after a so-called collapse sterling is still up not down.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    edited June 2016
    SeanT said:

    This is an interesting passage on Cameron, the EU and the "reform", written a year ago

    The Marxists are waiting in the wings to capitalise on Boris and Gove's handiwork.

    Just look at how Benn was squirming over the EU preventing mass nationalisations.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    SeanT said:

    DanSmith said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Remain are hampered by the antics of Corbyn & McDonnell who remain unwilling to appear with Cameron and Osborne.

    Labour could take a lesson from the Scottish Referendum, if you want to win you need message discipline and put party politics to one side.

    If Remain are trailing in the polls with a day or two to go I expect Corbyn and Cameron to make a joint appearance.
    Corbyn won't do it. He wants LEAVE to win. Surely you see that?
    You are right. So does McDonnell.
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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    Danny565 said:

    After seeing Hilary Benn's carcrash, I am now very worried about the consequences for Labour of this referendum.

    Labour are essentially defending the status quo, which is toxic for any left-wing party, just as it was for Scottish Labour when they defended the status quo in the independence referendum. Benn saying that wages as they are now are just fine, that living standards are just fine, that high levels of immigration are an inevitability, that we shouldn't risk upsetting the apple-cart in case things go wrong......it was all very reminiscent of Alistair Darling defending the UK's status quo in one of the independence debates.

    Most Labour voters (whether they're working-class voters looking to improve their own circumstances, or the hopey-changey idealists who want to dream big about what can happen in future) do not want to hear that Things Can Never Get Better.

    Things can only get better
    Things can only get better


    ....Errrm no Messrs Blair and Mandelson - things are only getting worse for Labour as you say.

    How I remember that song from April 1997 when campaigning in Eltham to no avail!
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    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited June 2016
    RobD said:

    chestnut said:

    The Pound's 'collapse'

    https://encrypted.google.com/finance/chart?biw=1517&bih=714&espv=2&q=CURRENCY:GBPEUR&tkr=1&p=5Y&chst=vkc&chs=270x94&chsc=0.8999999761581421&ei=fstVV5vSDozagAbYkqG4CQ

    My Youtube viewing has thrown up the same ad twice now by Vote Leave - "Paving the Road from Ankara".

    It's from a video of a Cameron speech - the title comes from his words - and it's interspersed with a video of the Turkish Parliament having a punch up last month.

    Meaningless to show a chart over 4 years or more.
    No it's meaningless to show a chart over an hour with a dodgy Y-axis.

    This chart shows that despite Brexit looming for months the pound has stayed within normal boundaries and continues to do so right this second.
    But leave us only become more likely in recent weeks. Brexit may have been looking for months, but certainly not four years.
    I haven't done a count but a look at Wiki for the EU polling since 2010 suggests that Leave may well have had the lead more often than not.

    Cameron was granted a year's grace on the promise of a referendum to win an election and conduct a successful renegotiation.

    As soon as he under-delivered the polls have started to move back to Leave.

    To put this in context, in the three and half years leading up to Sindy, leave only led four times. It's happening four times a week with the EU.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,142
    SeanT said:

    OGH is on Ye Twitter claiming that the pound is "collapsing"

    Here is the pound against the dollar over the last three months

    https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/739898946907209728/photo/1

    Strangely OGH doesn't mention "FTSE100 soaring at prospect of BREXIT':

    FTSE100 +1.03%
    GBP/EUR - 0.40%

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business/market_data/overview/
  • Options
    DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    SeanT said:

    DanSmith said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Remain are hampered by the antics of Corbyn & McDonnell who remain unwilling to appear with Cameron and Osborne.

    Labour could take a lesson from the Scottish Referendum, if you want to win you need message discipline and put party politics to one side.

    If Remain are trailing in the polls with a day or two to go I expect Corbyn and Cameron to make a joint appearance.
    Corbyn won't do it. He wants LEAVE to win. Surely you see that?
    You're right, but I think you're looking at an instant Labour leadership election if Leave win.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,142
    Rather hypocritical of Cameron to warn of BREXIT being a bomb under the economy.

    He placed a bigger bomb under it six years ago - the George Osbomb.

    Borrowing so far £180bn over forecast.
    Growth so far 3.3% under forecast.
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    CornishBlueCornishBlue Posts: 840
    Another brilliant speech. Go to 6:45 - I almost died. :O

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt0__X-Be8k

    Worth watching the rest too of course - ignore the (literally) shaky start.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    DanSmith said:

    SeanT said:

    DanSmith said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Remain are hampered by the antics of Corbyn & McDonnell who remain unwilling to appear with Cameron and Osborne.

    Labour could take a lesson from the Scottish Referendum, if you want to win you need message discipline and put party politics to one side.

    If Remain are trailing in the polls with a day or two to go I expect Corbyn and Cameron to make a joint appearance.
    Corbyn won't do it. He wants LEAVE to win. Surely you see that?
    You're right, but I think you're looking at an instant Labour leadership election if Leave win.
    Why would Corbyn give up power?
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Danny565 said:

    After seeing Hilary Benn's carcrash, I am now very worried about the consequences for Labour of this referendum.

    Labour are essentially defending the status quo, which is toxic for any left-wing party, just as it was for Scottish Labour when they defended the status quo in the independence referendum. Benn saying that wages as they are now are just fine, that living standards are just fine, that high levels of immigration are an inevitability, that we shouldn't risk upsetting the apple-cart in case things go wrong......it was all very reminiscent of Alistair Darling defending the UK's status quo in one of the independence debates.

    Most Labour voters (whether they're working-class voters looking to improve their own circumstances, or the hopey-changey idealists who want to dream big about what can happen in future) do not want to hear that Things Can Never Get Better.

    Defending the status quo didn't make labour toxic, calling a third of their voters Nazis made them toxic.
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited June 2016
    It is fair to say that the pound has declined this year, along with Osborne's growth figures.
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    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,924

    I think today is unequivocally the turning point.

    3 polls put leave ahead.

    Cameron stands next to Hattie and starts going on about bombs.

    Kinnock Junior gets up on his hind legs and says ITS ALWIGHT,ITS ALWIGHT WE WILL JUST IGNORE THE RESULT.

    And now Neil kebabs Benn.

    - and pb remainers start throwing in the towel

    All this celebrating with over two weeks to go could look very very stupid on June 24th
  • Options
    PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,274
    edited June 2016
    DanSmith said:

    SeanT said:

    DanSmith said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Remain are hampered by the antics of Corbyn & McDonnell who remain unwilling to appear with Cameron and Osborne.

    Labour could take a lesson from the Scottish Referendum, if you want to win you need message discipline and put party politics to one side.

    If Remain are trailing in the polls with a day or two to go I expect Corbyn and Cameron to make a joint appearance.
    Corbyn won't do it. He wants LEAVE to win. Surely you see that?
    You're right, but I think you're looking at an instant Labour leadership election if Leave win.
    What would be the point? Corbyn would be reelected. And I don't see how the loss of the referendum could reasonably be blamed on Corbyn. No, the referendum is Cameron's gamble. He put tactics ahead of strategy and he owns the consequences totally.
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    MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792
    edited June 2016
    hunchman said:

    Danny565 said:

    After seeing Hilary Benn's carcrash, I am now very worried about the consequences for Labour of this referendum.

    Labour are essentially defending the status quo, which is toxic for any left-wing party, just as it was for Scottish Labour when they defended the status quo in the independence referendum. Benn saying that wages as they are now are just fine, that living standards are just fine, that high levels of immigration are an inevitability, that we shouldn't risk upsetting the apple-cart in case things go wrong......it was all very reminiscent of Alistair Darling defending the UK's status quo in one of the independence debates.

    Most Labour voters (whether they're working-class voters looking to improve their own circumstances, or the hopey-changey idealists who want to dream big about what can happen in future) do not want to hear that Things Can Never Get Better.

    Things can only get better
    Things can only get better


    ....Errrm no Messrs Blair and Mandelson - things are only getting worse for Labour as you say.

    How I remember that song from April 1997 when campaigning in Eltham to no avail!
    Today's performances by the offspring of Benn, Kinnock and Straw confirmed that things can get worse.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    SeanT said:

    surbiton said:

    SeanT said:

    DanSmith said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Remain are hampered by the antics of Corbyn & McDonnell who remain unwilling to appear with Cameron and Osborne.

    Labour could take a lesson from the Scottish Referendum, if you want to win you need message discipline and put party politics to one side.

    If Remain are trailing in the polls with a day or two to go I expect Corbyn and Cameron to make a joint appearance.
    Corbyn won't do it. He wants LEAVE to win. Surely you see that?
    You are right. So does McDonnell.
    And Milne. They want LEAVE to win because they are genuinely eurosceptic, and because they think it will hurt and divide the Tories.
    And after Leave win they will claim that the voters have rejected the corporatist economic orthodoxy and portray the Brexit wing of the Tories that will be in the ascendency as evil baby eaters. Politics will be more polarised than it's been for decades and it's not obvious who will come out on top.
  • Options
    another_richardanother_richard Posts: 25,142
    Danny565 said:

    After seeing Hilary Benn's carcrash, I am now very worried about the consequences for Labour of this referendum.

    Labour are essentially defending the status quo, which is toxic for any left-wing party, just as it was for Scottish Labour when they defended the status quo in the independence referendum. Benn saying that wages as they are now are just fine, that living standards are just fine, that high levels of immigration are an inevitability, that we shouldn't risk upsetting the apple-cart in case things go wrong......it was all very reminiscent of Alistair Darling defending the UK's status quo in one of the independence debates.

    Most Labour voters (whether they're working-class voters looking to improve their own circumstances, or the hopey-changey idealists who want to dream big about what can happen in future) do not want to hear that Things Can Never Get Better.

    The real disaster for Labour would be if they tried to block a Leave vote in parliament.
  • Options
    DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215
    Danny565 said:

    After seeing Hilary Benn's carcrash, I am now very worried about the consequences for Labour of this referendum.

    Labour are essentially defending the status quo, which is toxic for any left-wing party, just as it was for Scottish Labour when they defended the status quo in the independence referendum. Benn saying that wages as they are now are just fine, that living standards are just fine, that high levels of immigration are an inevitability, that we shouldn't risk upsetting the apple-cart in case things go wrong......it was all very reminiscent of Alistair Darling defending the UK's status quo in one of the independence debates.

    Most Labour voters (whether they're working-class voters looking to improve their own circumstances, or the hopey-changey idealists who want to dream big about what can happen in future) do not want to hear that Things Can Never Get Better.

    Everyone knew in Scotland what way Labour wanted them to vote (they might not have agreed but that's another matter). Labour supporters are genuinely unsure what their leadership wants them to do this time. You have to have a united campaign, separate party ones don't work.
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    marke09marke09 Posts: 926
    Surely mot of those under 35s are university students registering at their home address as term finishes
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    SeanT said:

    surbiton said:

    SeanT said:

    DanSmith said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Remain are hampered by the antics of Corbyn & McDonnell who remain unwilling to appear with Cameron and Osborne.

    Labour could take a lesson from the Scottish Referendum, if you want to win you need message discipline and put party politics to one side.

    If Remain are trailing in the polls with a day or two to go I expect Corbyn and Cameron to make a joint appearance.
    Corbyn won't do it. He wants LEAVE to win. Surely you see that?
    You are right. So does McDonnell.
    And Milne. They want LEAVE to win because they are genuinely eurosceptic, and because they think it will hurt and divide the Tories.
    And after Leave win they will claim that the voters have rejected the corporatist economic orthodoxy and portray the Brexit wing of the Tories that will be in the ascendency as evil baby eaters. Politics will be more polarised than it's been for decades and it's not obvious who will come out on top.


    "they will claim that the voters have rejected the corporatist economic orthodoxy"

    They can claim anything they like. Won't make them any more credible.

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    DanSmith said:

    SeanT said:

    DanSmith said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Remain are hampered by the antics of Corbyn & McDonnell who remain unwilling to appear with Cameron and Osborne.

    Labour could take a lesson from the Scottish Referendum, if you want to win you need message discipline and put party politics to one side.

    If Remain are trailing in the polls with a day or two to go I expect Corbyn and Cameron to make a joint appearance.
    Corbyn won't do it. He wants LEAVE to win. Surely you see that?
    You're right, but I think you're looking at an instant Labour leadership election if Leave win.
    Why?
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,316
    edited June 2016
    DanSmith said:

    SeanT said:

    DanSmith said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Remain are hampered by the antics of Corbyn & McDonnell who remain unwilling to appear with Cameron and Osborne.

    Labour could take a lesson from the Scottish Referendum, if you want to win you need message discipline and put party politics to one side.

    If Remain are trailing in the polls with a day or two to go I expect Corbyn and Cameron to make a joint appearance.
    Corbyn won't do it. He wants LEAVE to win. Surely you see that?
    You're right, but I think you're looking at an instant Labour leadership election if Leave win.
    That seems very possible - because nobody has yet answered the question as to what will Labour do if Leave wins - ie if Boris becomes PM and calls a GE, what will Labour's policy be?

    How can Labour credibly say they will negotiate Brexit when 90% of Lab MPs don't support it? And not one leading figure in the Lab party supports it? It would be completely insane.

    Yet if Lab say they will remain in the EU, that will look totally absurd as it would be openly defying the result of the referendum.

    The only option appears to be for Lab to vote against a dissolution of Parliament in order to avoid a GE. But that would look pretty absurd too - rejecting the chance of winning power.

    The whole thing adds up to a complete and utter mess.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    MikeL said:


    How can Labour credibly say they will negotiate Brexit when 90% of Lab MPs don't support it? And not one leading figure in the Lab party supports it? It would be completely insane.

    The people will have spoken in a referendum. After that all the parties will have to come up with their vision for what Brexit looks like. Labour under Corbyn won't have any trouble defining what their Brexit looks like, meanwhile the Tories in government will be in disarray.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,565
    I still think Remain will win. I'm not gloating.

    I do however wish to know when the Obama effect kicks in. Can anyone tell me?
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    DanSmith said:

    SeanT said:

    DanSmith said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Remain are hampered by the antics of Corbyn & McDonnell who remain unwilling to appear with Cameron and Osborne.

    Labour could take a lesson from the Scottish Referendum, if you want to win you need message discipline and put party politics to one side.

    If Remain are trailing in the polls with a day or two to go I expect Corbyn and Cameron to make a joint appearance.
    Corbyn won't do it. He wants LEAVE to win. Surely you see that?
    You're right, but I think you're looking at an instant Labour leadership election if Leave win.
    I think the opposite. If Leave wins then Labour's Remain-loving MPs are going to have to enter a period of collective introspection.

    Not only will Labour have lost consecutive elections, not only will Corbyn have the overwhelming backing of members, but on the totemic issue of the EU then the Labour Remaniancs will have been shown to be out of touch with the nation.

    Corbyn if anything will be strengthened vis a vis his MPs if there is a Leave victory.
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:
    "Collapsing". lol. Its just desperate. REMAIN look desperate.

    They look desperate the same way Unionists were desperate, right before Cameron went to Edinburgh, to give his tearful vow.

    This time, there is no way we can be swayed by a vow. There is no possible vow.

    It is, indeed, too close to call
    Well no one reads the Independent anyway - but if The Mail or The Sun run the same meme we'll know they've been leant upon. (Possibly promised an interview by David Cameron, not that anyone will read it except for a little light relief.)
  • Options
    welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    OllyT said:

    I think today is unequivocally the turning point.

    3 polls put leave ahead.

    Cameron stands next to Hattie and starts going on about bombs.

    Kinnock Junior gets up on his hind legs and says ITS ALWIGHT,ITS ALWIGHT WE WILL JUST IGNORE THE RESULT.

    And now Neil kebabs Benn.

    - and pb remainers start throwing in the towel

    All this celebrating with over two weeks to go could look very very stupid on June 24th
    Indeed. It's all very close - if the polls are fairly accurate. There's bound to be some pencil hovering in the ballot box for the status quo, there's two weeks to go plus, plenty of loose cannons knocking about, events could play both ways, and we could always get a Eurovow. The fat lady ain't even warming up.
    .
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    edited June 2016
    SeanT said:

    Yes. The only choice for democratic parties is to accept the verdict. Any party that resists is doomed.

    And it's not like all the European nations outside the EU are hard right, FFS. Norway, Iceland, Switzerland are not quasi-Fascist. They are admirable countries. Labour could try and turn us into a leftier version of Switzerland. There are plenty worse things.

    Worse things, like Venezuela? I doubt Corbyn will be looking to Switzerland for inspiration.
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,403
    .
    SeanT said:

    This is an interesting passage on Cameron, the EU and the "reform", written a year ago


    "Once a half-presentable package of regressive reforms has been assembled to appease the Tory party, it will then be put to a public vote, accompanied by a barrage of big business-led scaremongering about the economic consequences of voting no. With the entire establishment and both main opposition parties signed up to a blank cheque yes vote, there are likely to be no mainstream demands for progressive EU reform..

    But it’s essential that the case for radical change in Europe – and a break with its anti-democratic, corporate-controlled structures – is not abandoned to the right."


    The author?

    Corbyn's press officer, Seamus Milne

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/10/europe-nationalist-right-greece-cameron-referendum-eu

    I've lost track...my enemy's enemy's enemy is....gah..!
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,369
    surbiton said:

    SeanT said:

    DanSmith said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Remain are hampered by the antics of Corbyn & McDonnell who remain unwilling to appear with Cameron and Osborne.

    Labour could take a lesson from the Scottish Referendum, if you want to win you need message discipline and put party politics to one side.

    If Remain are trailing in the polls with a day or two to go I expect Corbyn and Cameron to make a joint appearance.
    Corbyn won't do it. He wants LEAVE to win. Surely you see that?
    You are right. So does McDonnell.
    Nope. I know them both and I've discussed it recently and directly with Corbyn. Their position is exactly what they say it is - they don't much like the current EU, but think that there is no route forward for a decent society in glorious isolation. Corbyn will be saying so in a further four speeches.

    Now you can argue that it'd be better if they pretended to think the EU was absolutely fine, but they don't do pretend. People (like me and Hilary Benn) who do think it's pretty good are not in tune with most people on this, and in particular not in tune with undecided voters. It's auite difficult to put a nuanced position across - the media can't be bothered with it and just pick out a couple of lines. But this isn't the time for rah-rah cheerleading.

  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Yes. The only choice for democratic parties is to accept the verdict. Any party that resists is doomed.

    And it's not like all the European nations outside the EU are hard right, FFS. Norway, Iceland, Switzerland are not quasi-Fascist. They are admirable countries. Labour could try and turn us into a leftier version of Switzerland. There are plenty worse things.

    Worse things, like Venezuela? I doubt Corbyn will be looking to Switzerland for inspiration.
    Corbyn, no. But the rest of Labour, yes.
    You mean 'red Tories' who must be purged?
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    DanSmith said:

    Danny565 said:

    After seeing Hilary Benn's carcrash, I am now very worried about the consequences for Labour of this referendum.

    Labour are essentially defending the status quo, which is toxic for any left-wing party, just as it was for Scottish Labour when they defended the status quo in the independence referendum. Benn saying that wages as they are now are just fine, that living standards are just fine, that high levels of immigration are an inevitability, that we shouldn't risk upsetting the apple-cart in case things go wrong......it was all very reminiscent of Alistair Darling defending the UK's status quo in one of the independence debates.

    Most Labour voters (whether they're working-class voters looking to improve their own circumstances, or the hopey-changey idealists who want to dream big about what can happen in future) do not want to hear that Things Can Never Get Better.

    Everyone knew in Scotland what way Labour wanted them to vote (they might not have agreed but that's another matter). Labour supporters are genuinely unsure what their leadership wants them to do this time. You have to have a united campaign, separate party ones don't work.
    Good. I can only hope it stays that way, because if Labour's current message of "the status quo is fine, this is the best you can get, don't go getting ideas above your station" cuts through, then it will be fatal for Labour, just as it was for Scottish Labour.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited June 2016
    marke09 said:

    Surely mot of those under 35s are university students registering at their home address as term finishes

    That's a good point. Many may have registered to vote in May for the locals and are now re-registering in June. Though you can still be registered in more than one place if you're a student so I suspect that's a bigger issue for under 25's first time (at home) voters.

    Students who registered at uni for the General last year and stayed on the register for the locals will also be needing to register at home for the first time.
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    eekeek Posts: 25,027
    SeanT said:

    DanSmith said:

    SeanT said:

    DanSmith said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Remain are hampered by the antics of Corbyn & McDonnell who remain unwilling to appear with Cameron and Osborne.

    Labour could take a lesson from the Scottish Referendum, if you want to win you need message discipline and put party politics to one side.

    If Remain are trailing in the polls with a day or two to go I expect Corbyn and Cameron to make a joint appearance.
    Corbyn won't do it. He wants LEAVE to win. Surely you see that?
    You're right, but I think you're looking at an instant Labour leadership election if Leave win.
    I think the opposite. If Leave wins then Labour's Remain-loving MPs are going to have to enter a period of collective introspection.

    Not only will Labour have lost consecutive elections, not only will Corbyn have the overwhelming backing of members, but on the totemic issue of the EU then the Labour Remaniancs will have been shown to be out of touch with the nation.

    Corbyn if anything will be strengthened vis a vis his MPs if there is a Leave victory.
    Corbyn is actually playing this quite cannily. Not being too salient, not too visible, doing just enough to appear vaguely europhile and INNY, so his MPs can't revolt, but making sure he is not tainted by association with the Tories - especially a Tory campaign that might lose, and which annoys the F out of natural Labour supporters.

    This is possible the first bit of Corbyn politicking that I have admired. He must have new advisors.
    Even a stopped clock is correct once in a while
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    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    What is the fuss about - at the bottom of every page I've seen is a link - register to vote.

    http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/register_to_vote

    Can't see any problems with it .
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    EPGEPG Posts: 6,033
    dr_spyn said:

    Remain are hampered by the antics of Corbyn & McDonnell who remain unwilling to appear with Cameron and Osborne.

    When you are relying on John McDonnell to win your internecine spat, you really are the essay crisis Prime Minister.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    SeanT said:

    DanSmith said:

    SeanT said:

    DanSmith said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Remain are hampered by the antics of Corbyn & McDonnell who remain unwilling to appear with Cameron and Osborne.

    Labour could take a lesson from the Scottish Referendum, if you want to win you need message discipline and put party politics to one side.

    If Remain are trailing in the polls with a day or two to go I expect Corbyn and Cameron to make a joint appearance.
    Corbyn won't do it. He wants LEAVE to win. Surely you see that?
    You're right, but I think you're looking at an instant Labour leadership election if Leave win.
    I think the opposite. If Leave wins then Labour's Remain-loving MPs are going to have to enter a period of collective introspection.

    Not only will Labour have lost consecutive elections, not only will Corbyn have the overwhelming backing of members, but on the totemic issue of the EU then the Labour Remaniancs will have been shown to be out of touch with the nation.

    Corbyn if anything will be strengthened vis a vis his MPs if there is a Leave victory.
    Corbyn is actually playing this quite cannily. Not being too salient, not too visible, doing just enough to appear vaguely europhile and INNY, so his MPs can't revolt, but making sure he is not tainted by association with the Tories - especially a Tory campaign that might lose, and which annoys the F out of natural Labour supporters.

    This is possible the first bit of Corbyn politicking that I have admired. He must have new advisors.
    Alternatively he's doing what he always does, be true to himself. He doesn't give a s**t about remaining so is putting little effort in. That it is smart politics for himself could be no more than a coincidence in a 'broken clock' kind of way.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    EPG said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Remain are hampered by the antics of Corbyn & McDonnell who remain unwilling to appear with Cameron and Osborne.

    When you are relying on John McDonnell to win your internecine spat, you really are the essay crisis Prime Minister.
    On the other hand, if Cameron does pull off a victory again he will look like a master high-stakes gambler yet again...
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,316
    edited June 2016

    MikeL said:


    How can Labour credibly say they will negotiate Brexit when 90% of Lab MPs don't support it? And not one leading figure in the Lab party supports it? It would be completely insane.

    The people will have spoken in a referendum. After that all the parties will have to come up with their vision for what Brexit looks like. Labour under Corbyn won't have any trouble defining what their Brexit looks like, meanwhile the Tories in government will be in disarray.
    You're right - Con will be in disarray - in fact complete disarray. But they will be able to put in place a leader (and leadership team) that supports Brexit and will go ahead with that policy.

    Lab won't be able to do that.

    When is the last time a Government (of any party) took though Parliament a major piece of legislation which it didn't support? The whole concept of such a thing actually happening is completely barmy.
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    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    Tales from the front

    A friend has been canvassing in a traditional predominantly WWC area of inner London.

    80% of respondents are for Leave.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    eek said:

    SeanT said:

    DanSmith said:

    SeanT said:

    DanSmith said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Remain are hampered by the antics of Corbyn & McDonnell who remain unwilling to appear with Cameron and Osborne.

    Labour could take a lesson from the Scottish Referendum, if you want to win you need message discipline and put party politics to one side.

    If Remain are trailing in the polls with a day or two to go I expect Corbyn and Cameron to make a joint appearance.
    Corbyn won't do it. He wants LEAVE to win. Surely you see that?
    You're right, but I think you're looking at an instant Labour leadership election if Leave win.
    I think the opposite. If Leave wins then Labour's Remain-loving MPs are going to have to enter a period of collective introspection.

    Not only will Labour have lost consecutive elections, not only will Corbyn have the overwhelming backing of members, but on the totemic issue of the EU then the Labour Remaniancs will have been shown to be out of touch with the nation.

    Corbyn if anything will be strengthened vis a vis his MPs if there is a Leave victory.
    Corbyn is actually playing this quite cannily. Not being too salient, not too visible, doing just enough to appear vaguely europhile and INNY, so his MPs can't revolt, but making sure he is not tainted by association with the Tories - especially a Tory campaign that might lose, and which annoys the F out of natural Labour supporters.

    This is possible the first bit of Corbyn politicking that I have admired. He must have new advisors.
    Even a stopped clock is correct once in a while
    Great minds think alike ...
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    EPGEPG Posts: 6,033

    EPG said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Remain are hampered by the antics of Corbyn & McDonnell who remain unwilling to appear with Cameron and Osborne.

    When you are relying on John McDonnell to win your internecine spat, you really are the essay crisis Prime Minister.
    On the other hand, if Cameron does pull off a victory again he will look like a master high-stakes gambler yet again...
    Well, exactly. I don't mean essay crisis in a doomed way, it's just that we've seen this story before. The day the polls turned. The people are finally ready for radical change. Reader, I bought it in 2015 (not 2014).
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    edited June 2016
    RoyalBlue said:

    Tales from the front

    A friend has been canvassing in a traditional predominantly WWC area of inner London.

    80% of respondents are for Leave.

    Barking? Can't be that's not really white, no area is wwc in inner London anymore.
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    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    SeanT said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Tales from the front

    A friend has been canvassing in a traditional predominantly WWC area of inner London.

    80% of respondents are for Leave.

    Canvassing for LEAVE?
    Yes. Looks like Labour are intent on totally alienating the people the party was founded to advance.
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807

    surbiton said:

    SeanT said:

    DanSmith said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Remain are hampered by the antics of Corbyn & McDonnell who remain unwilling to appear with Cameron and Osborne.

    Labour could take a lesson from the Scottish Referendum, if you want to win you need message discipline and put party politics to one side.

    If Remain are trailing in the polls with a day or two to go I expect Corbyn and Cameron to make a joint appearance.
    Corbyn won't do it. He wants LEAVE to win. Surely you see that?
    You are right. So does McDonnell.
    Nope. I know them both and I've discussed it recently and directly with Corbyn. Their position is exactly what they say it is - they don't much like the current EU, but think that there is no route forward for a decent society in glorious isolation. Corbyn will be saying so in a further four speeches.

    Now you can argue that it'd be better if they pretended to think the EU was absolutely fine, but they don't do pretend. People (like me and Hilary Benn) who do think it's pretty good are not in tune with most people on this, and in particular not in tune with undecided voters. It's auite difficult to put a nuanced position across - the media can't be bothered with it and just pick out a couple of lines. But this isn't the time for rah-rah cheerleading.

    Nick – they are supposed to be delivering a referendum victory, which means carrying large numbers of Labour 2015 voters wth clear messaging, not equivocating. Their performance so far isn't nuanced so much as uncommitted, even reluctant. Corbyn may be a principled man, but he is no leader, and he is certainly not cut out for an election campaign. That has been proven.
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    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869

    I still think Remain will win. I'm not gloating.

    I do however wish to know when the Obama effect kicks in. Can anyone tell me?

    Yes, I also think Remain will win. But I never ever expected to feel hopeful for Leave, and I am.
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,146
    MikeL said:

    MikeL said:


    How can Labour credibly say they will negotiate Brexit when 90% of Lab MPs don't support it? And not one leading figure in the Lab party supports it? It would be completely insane.

    The people will have spoken in a referendum. After that all the parties will have to come up with their vision for what Brexit looks like. Labour under Corbyn won't have any trouble defining what their Brexit looks like, meanwhile the Tories in government will be in disarray.
    You're right - Con will be in disarray - in fact complete disarray. But they will be able to put in place a leader (and leadership team) that supports Brexit and will go ahead with that policy.

    Lab won't be able to do that.

    When is the last time a Government (of any party) took though Parliament a major piece of legislation which it didn't support? The whole concept of such a thing actually happening is completely barmy.
    It's a constitutional referendum. If Scotland had voted for independence the Westminster parties would have had to implement it despite none of them favouring it.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,020
    I am still cautiously pessimistic about the referendum.

    The last few days have undoubtedly been good for Leave and the direction of travel is encouraging. By with more than 2 weeks yet to go I simply can't imagine we won't have either a standout performance from a Remain spokesman or a disastrous performance from a Leave spokesman which could change everything. Everything is just too febrile and I will really not believe it is possible for us to win until those polls close on 23rd June.
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    VapidBilgeVapidBilge Posts: 412
    MikeL said:

    MikeL said:


    How can Labour credibly say they will negotiate Brexit when 90% of Lab MPs don't support it? And not one leading figure in the Lab party supports it? It would be completely insane.

    The people will have spoken in a referendum. After that all the parties will have to come up with their vision for what Brexit looks like. Labour under Corbyn won't have any trouble defining what their Brexit looks like, meanwhile the Tories in government will be in disarray.
    You're right - Con will be in disarray - in fact complete disarray. But they will be able to put in place a leader (and leadership team) that supports Brexit and will go ahead with that policy.

    Lab won't be able to do that.

    When is the last time a Government (of any party) took though Parliament a major piece of legislation which it didn't support? The whole concept of such a thing actually happening is completely barmy.
    Gay marriage?
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    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    SeanT said:

    DanSmith said:

    SeanT said:

    DanSmith said:

    dr_spyn said:

    Remain are hampered by the antics of Corbyn & McDonnell who remain unwilling to appear with Cameron and Osborne.

    Labour could take a lesson from the Scottish Referendum, if you want to win you need message discipline and put party politics to one side.

    If Remain are trailing in the polls with a day or two to go I expect Corbyn and Cameron to make a joint appearance.
    Corbyn won't do it. He wants LEAVE to win. Surely you see that?
    You're right, but I think you're looking at an instant Labour leadership election if Leave win.
    I think the opposite. If Leave wins then Labour's Remain-loving MPs are going to have to enter a period of collective introspection.

    Not only will Labour have lost consecutive elections, not only will Corbyn have the overwhelming backing of members, but on the totemic issue of the EU then the Labour Remaniancs will have been shown to be out of touch with the nation.

    Corbyn if anything will be strengthened vis a vis his MPs if there is a Leave victory.
    Corbyn is actually playing this quite cannily. Not being too salient, not too visible, doing just enough to appear vaguely europhile and INNY, so his MPs can't revolt, but making sure he is not tainted by association with the Tories - especially a Tory campaign that might lose, and which annoys the F out of natural Labour supporters.

    This is possible the first bit of Corbyn politicking that I have admired. He must have new advisors.
    You are crediting him with far, far too much guile. I have noticed that is a common flaw in many pbers' analysis of his behaviour.
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    RoyalBlueRoyalBlue Posts: 3,223
    nunu said:

    RoyalBlue said:

    Tales from the front

    A friend has been canvassing in a traditional predominantly WWC area of inner London.

    80% of respondents are for Leave.

    Barking? Can't be that's not really white, no area is wwc in inner London anymore.
    I wouldn't class Barking as inner London. Also, predominantly does not mean exclusively!
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