Automated checkouts take up less space. They appear to have generally led to an increase in the number of checkouts. Most supermarkets employ people who can do multiple jobs, and can be switched to the checkouts at periods of high demand.
There are far fewer checkout workers now because of the automated checkouts which have replaced them with maybe 1 person to assist if needed. Robot factory assembly lines are now used for all but the most skilled tasks. I would agree new sectors will open up, with the most creative having the best advantage
I think you will find that there just as many workers in each supermarket. And supermarkets actually finding the automated checkouts are rather problematic for a number of reasons and actually aren't that efficient for the store or shopper.
There is a far better solution in existence, e.g. self scan in the lies of Waitrose, and again that isn't working out for them. And a few years ago the hope was just to RFID tag everything and then have readers automatically total up everything without the shopper having to do anything, but still no signs of that anywhere.
The problem is again, lots of very simple tasks for humans are actually rather problematic for computers. And paying somebody £7 / hr, is a lot cheaper than the required investment to develop the solutions.
And as for robot factory assembly it is true, although again your iPhone still required a company that employs a million people to make.
There are not, there are 6 automatic checkouts at my local Tesco and they have obviously reduced the number of staff who work at the checkout accordingly. Yes computers may not replace all roles but where companies can automate and save costs they will
.
Yup, the stats back you up. I worked in Leeds, and our of clients were a very major supermarket.
What HYUFD doesn't realise more and more stores are opening, as well as existing stores opening 24 hours a day, 6 days a week in England & Wales.
They are employing more and more staff, add in the likes of LIDL and ALDI expanding.
More people work in supermarkets than ever before, both in absolute numbers and headcount
Yes there are more stores opening up but most of the smaller stores, Tesco Express etc are mainly filled with automated checkouts with only 1 or two staff at the till
More people work for tescos etc than ever before. That is the fact. Automated tills are not putting people out of work, they are doing different jobs etc.
No no, people who work in Tesco only work at the checkouts.
Perhaps HYUFD hasn't been down the wine aisle recently, the Tesco Sommeliers are quite something....
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Dear Lord in heaven above, what next?
OK- we've had the Pope, Obama, Merkel, Lagarde, Clinton (both he and she) trying their best, now we have this Psychologist. Who would you suggest could come next to show us the light. Ali, my hero, his gone. Mandela is gone. We are fast running out of sensible and good people to tell us that Brexit is a bad thing.
That is what the Brexiteers were suggesting earlier. Not that the timing would change, but that the existing treaties would be replaced by a new agreement, that would be replaced by another agreement when they figured out what they wanted.
There are far fewer checkout workers now because of the automated checkouts which have replaced them with maybe 1 person to assist if needed. Robot factory assembly lines are now used for all but the most skilled tasks. I would agree new sectors will open up, with the most creative having the best advantage
I think you will find that there just as many workers in each supermarket. And supermarkets actually finding the automated checkouts are rather problematic for a number of reasons and actually aren't that efficient for the store or shopper.
There is a far better solution in existence, e.g. self scan in the lies of Waitrose, and again that isn't working out for them. And a few years ago the hope was just to RFID tag everything and then have readers automatically total up everything without the shopper having to do anything, but still no signs of that anywhere.
The problem is again, lots of very simple tasks for humans are actually rather problematic for computers. And paying somebody £7 / hr, is a lot cheaper than the required investment to develop the solutions.
And as for robot factory assembly it is true, although again your iPhone still required a company that employs a million people to make.
There are not, there are 6 automatic checkouts at
Go check figures...there are just as many (if not m.
Yup, the stats back you up. I worked in Leeds, and our of clients were a very major supermarket.
What HYUFD doesn't realise more and more stores are opening, as well as existing stores opening 24 hours a day, 6 days a week in England & Wales.
They are employing more and more staff, add in the likes of LIDL and ALDI expanding.
More people work in supermarkets than ever before, both in absolute numbers and headcount
Yes there are more stores opening up but most of the smaller stores, Tesco Express etc are mainly filled with automated checkouts with only 1 or two staff at the till
More people work for tescos etc than ever before. That is the fact. Automated tills are not putting people out of work, they are doing different jobs etc.
They are for the jobs being done, they lead to fewer checkout staff being needed. Supermarkets may expand in other areas of their operations but that is a discussion about the fortunes of supermarkets which is not relevant to the original argument that automation can put those with lower skills out of work in, for example, factory production lines or supermarket checkouts
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Dear Lord in heaven above, what next?
We are fast running out of sensible and good people to tell us that Brexit is a bad thing.
Yes I mentioned that earlier and have said it several times also before on here. If, a la Michael "2020" Gove, you think the ECJ will strike down a deal agreed by 28 heads of state (and then we'd say: ok then) it's Leave all day long for you. Plus a supply of tinfoil hats.
It's been done before - so why not again?
Precisely.
The Denmark rejected Maastricht the Council of Europe ("heads of state") made a number of promises to Denmark concerning citizenship, border control and even the names it's citizens are allowed to use. This deal was totally ignored by the ECJ who made it plain that it was only interested in ratified treaties. It is an exactly comparable situation to our own.
(The ECJ has also thrown out a resolution by the UN Security Council on a similar basis)
Yes there are more stores opening up but most of the smaller stores, Tesco Express etc are mainly filled with automated checkouts with only 1 or two staff at the till
More people work for tescos etc than ever before. That is the fact. Automated tills are not putting people out of work, they are doing different jobs etc.
They are for the jobs being done, they lead to fewer checkout staff being needed. Supermarkets may expand in other areas of their operations but that is a discussion about the fortunes of supermarkets which is not relevant to the original argument that automation can put those with lower skills out of work in, for example, factory production lines or supermarket checkouts
It is entirely relevant if those who would have worked in one role in Tesco's now work in another role in the same place instead. Jobs evolve.
There are far fewer checkout workers now because of the automated checkouts which have replaced them with maybe 1 person to assist if needed. Robot factory assembly lines are now used for all but the most skilled tasks. I would agree new sectors will open up, with the most creative having the best advantage
I think you will find that there just as many workers in each supermarket. And supermarkets actually finding the automated checkouts are rather problematic for a number of reasons and actually aren't that efficient for the store or shopper.
There is a far better solution in existence, e.g. self scan in the lies of Waitrose, and again that isn't working out for them. And a few years ago the hope was just to RFID tag everything and then have readers automatically total up everything without the shopper having to do anything, but still no signs of that anywhere.
The problem is again, lots of very simple tasks for humans are actually rather problematic for computers. And paying somebody £7 / hr, is a lot cheaper than the required investment to develop the solutions.
And as for robot factory assembly it is true, although again your iPhone still required a company that employs a million people to make.
There are not, there are 6 automatic checkouts at my local Tesco and they have obviously reduced the number of staff who work at the checkout accordingly. Yes computers may not replace all roles but where companies can automate and save costs they will
.
Yup, the stats back you up. I worked in Leeds, and our of clients were a very major supermarket.
What HYUFD doesn't realise more and more stores are opening, as well as existing stores opening 24 hours a day, 6 days a week in England & Wales.
They are employing more and more staff, add in the likes of LIDL and ALDI expanding.
More people work in supermarkets than ever before, both in absolute numbers and headcount
Yes there are more stores opening up but most of the smaller stores, Tesco Express etc are mainly filled with automated checkouts with only 1 or two staff at the till
More people work for tescos etc than e.
No no, people who work in Tesco only work at the checkouts.
Perhaps HYUFD hasn't been down the wine aisle recently, the Tesco Sommeliers are quite something....
The wine aisle is a completely separate part of the supermarket to the checkout!
On topic, I think there is a greater risk for Remain if Leave are seen to get a polling lead.
A lot of people thought Leave stood no chance. We were mark'd to die. Everyone was against us. The political elite. Business, the Media, even the Luvvie Light Infantry chucked a few rocks. But then when we Few, we Happy Few, we Band of Brothers look like we could just pull off the most famous victory of the Little Guy Sticking It to the Man...then everyone wants a part of that. They want to be able to boast each year on Brexit's Day of their glorious battle against the French. (And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it, mostly the French.) They want to stand a tip-toe when Brexit Day is named. Strip their sleeves and show their scars, And say "These wounds I had on Brexit day." Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember, with advantages, what feats he did that day. For he that votes for Brexit with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England then a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That voted with us upon Brexit's day.
Post of the day.
Whether for good or ill June 23rd will go down as one of the most Significant in our history if we vote out
And will mark the End of Our History if we vote to Remain...
So there's six automated checkouts, three of them are giving out ten pound notes extra in change, the supervisor tells you the one next to yours isn't one of them, do you stick or twist?
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Dear Lord in heaven above, what next?
OK- we've had the Pope, Obama, Merkel, Lagarde, Clinton (both he and she) trying their best, now we have this Psychologist. Who would you suggest could come next to show us the light. Ali, my hero, his gone. Mandela is gone. We are fast running out of sensible and good people to tell us that Brexit is a bad thing.
Problem is lots of sensible and good people said the same about the Euro and nothing happened, sensible and good people seem to be lacking a bit in credibility these days, especially when all of them, except arguably the Pope, have a vested interest in Remain.
Hyufd - I never said automatation didn't replace certainly roles. I said that I didn't buy that it will mean millions of people won't have a job to go to. My point being proved by supermarkets, automatation has come in & more people are employed.
Some industries will be harder hit, but new industries will develop eg who uses direct inquiries these days? But loads of people need to talk to support for their ISP and every company needs their website developing & ensuring it works 24/7.
Yes I mentioned that earlier and have said it several times also before on here. If, a la Michael "2020" Gove, you think the ECJ will strike down a deal agreed by 28 heads of state (and then we'd say: ok then) it's Leave all day long for you. Plus a supply of tinfoil hats.
It's been done before - so why not again?
Precisely.
The Denmark rejected Maastricht the Council of Europe ("heads of state") made a number of promises to Denmark concerning citizenship, border control and even the names it's citizens are allowed to use. This deal was totally ignored by the ECJ who made it plain that it was only interested in ratified treaties. It is an exactly comparable situation to our own.
(The ECJ has also thrown out a resolution by the UN Security Council on a similar basis)
Not sure that this is surprising. Of course the windiest places would be developed first, with diminishing returns as the prime locations get developed.
So there's six automated checkouts, three of them are giving out ten pound notes extra in change, the supervisor tells you the one next to yours isn't one of them, do you stick or twist?
Some industries will be harder hit, but new industries will develop eg who uses direct inquiries these days? But loads of people need to talk to support for their ISP and every company needs their website developing & ensuring it works 24/7.
The problem is that not every forklift truck driver made redundant by warehouse automation can turn his hand to website design. There is a significant proportion of our society who are essentially suited to manual or skilled labour, and that market for that is drying up as it is either offshored or replaced by machines.
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Dear Lord in heaven above, what next?
OK- we've had the Pope, Obama, Merkel, Lagarde, Clinton (both he and she) trying their best, now we have this Psychologist. Who would you suggest could come next to show us the light. Ali, my hero, his gone. Mandela is gone. We are fast running out of sensible and good people to tell us that Brexit is a bad thing.
Problem is lots of sensible and good people said the same about the Euro and nothing happened, sensible and good people seem to be lacking a bit in credibility these days, especially when all of them, except arguably the Pope, have a vested interest in Remain.
My main problem with automated checkouts is simply that they don't work.
Nothing more annoying than an automated check out machine telling you to do something you've already done and refusing to let you proceed until the spotty teenager swipes a card and performs some arcane magic all the while muttering incoherently at your self-evident imbecility.
I think you will find that there just as many workers in each supermarket. And supermarkets actually finding the automated checkouts are rather problematic for a number of reasons and actually aren't that efficient for the store or shopper.
There is a far better solution in existence, e.g. self scan in the lies of Waitrose, and again that isn't working out for them. And a few years ago the hope was just to RFID tag everything and then have readers automatically total up everything without the shopper having to do anything, but still no signs of that anywhere.
The problem is again, lots of very simple tasks for humans are actually rather problematic for computers. And paying somebody £7 / hr, is a lot cheaper than the required investment to develop the solutions.
And as for robot factory assembly it is true, although again your iPhone still required a company that employs a million people to make.
There are not, there are 6 automatic checkouts at my local Tesco and they have obviously reduced the number of staff who work at the checkout accordingly. Yes computers may not replace all roles but where companies can automate and save costs they will
Go check figures...there are just as many (if not more) people working for Tescos, Morrisons, etc as ever before. I didn't say people working at the checkout, I said working in the supermarkets (as that is the key argument, that computerisation etc won't actually mean all these people are out of jobs, instead they do different jobs).
The introduction of the automated checkout till has not resulted in 100,000s of people who work in supermarkets being made redundant.
You only have 1 person supervising 6 automated checkouts, so that is 5 jobs lost as a result
Well, no. Not exactly. I know the Walmart model extremely well - full size stores etc, I don't know these mini markets well at all.
In a full size store, the purpose behind self-checkouts is to provide a quick out for those with just a few items, freeing up the checkout lines for the heavy duty shoppers. It's an efficiency issue, not a staffing one. The effort needed to staff 6 self-checkouts - customer assistance, hardware problems, age verification when buying alcohol, scanning errors, bag and receipt paper replenishment, cleaning up when customer get pissed and just leaves in mid-checkout etc can be immense for one person.
When folks turn up at the self-checkout with a cart full (or even 2 carts full) it completely defeats the point of the self-checkout, to the point of needing multiple staff to run the station.
So the 1 person, 6 checkouts, equals minus five people is not the case at all.
Some industries will be harder hit, but new industries will develop eg who uses direct inquiries these days? But loads of people need to talk to support for their ISP and every company needs their website developing & ensuring it works 24/7.
The problem is that not every forklift truck driver made redundant by warehouse automation can turn his hand to website design. There is a significant proportion of our society who are essentially suited to manual or skilled labour, and that market for that is drying up as it is either offshored or replaced by machines.
Call centres are the factories of the 21st century. And many companies won't offshore them and / or are onshoring them. No not everybody can become a Web developer, but new roles come along, new industries etc.
And if it all goes tits up one can always become an estate agent ;-)
Labour lost the GE for a variety of reasons, but an important one was that not enough people believed in the Magic Money Tree. Remain have the same problem, no matter how many 'experts' they coax in.
The public see 300,000 new people every year. How many new homes need to be built? They may be younger, but that means loads of new pregnancies, loads of new school places needed.
Remain could say ... "We'll build new houses, we'll employ loads more midwifes and other medical staff, loads more schools will be built, and loads more teachers employed."
But they don't. They scream "Racist" instead. And they expect to be trusted.
They hope no one will notice the problem. I suppose if you can afford private medical care, fee-paying schools, and you have a big house in the South, you don't see the problem.
Some industries will be harder hit, but new industries will develop eg who uses direct inquiries these days? But loads of people need to talk to support for their ISP and every company needs their website developing & ensuring it works 24/7.
The problem is that not every forklift truck driver made redundant by warehouse automation can turn his hand to website design. There is a significant proportion of our society who are essentially suited to manual or skilled labour, and that market for that is drying up as it is either offshored or replaced by machines.
And that will soon happen to large chunks of skilled or administrative workers too, as AI and the like eliminate more and more jobs. Progress leaves many bodies in its wake.
My main problem with automated checkouts is simply that they don't work.
Nothing more annoying than an automated check out machine telling you to do something you've already done and refusing to let you proceed until the spotty teenager swipes a card and performs some arcane magic all the while muttering incoherently at your self-evident imbecility.
I'm very open to new technology. I'm not very open to new technology that doesn't work.
Yes I mentioned that earlier and have said it several times also before on here. If, a la Michael "2020" Gove, you think the ECJ will strike down a deal agreed by 28 heads of state (and then we'd say: ok then) it's Leave all day long for you. Plus a supply of tinfoil hats.
It's been done before - so why not again?
Precisely.
The Denmark rejected Maastricht the Council of Europe ("heads of state") made a number of promises to Denmark concerning citizenship, border control and even the names it's citizens are allowed to use. This deal was totally ignored by the ECJ who made it plain that it was only interested in ratified treaties. It is an exactly comparable situation to our own.
(The ECJ has also thrown out a resolution by the UN Security Council on a similar basis)
Some industries will be harder hit, but new industries will develop eg who uses direct inquiries these days? But loads of people need to talk to support for their ISP and every company needs their website developing & ensuring it works 24/7.
The problem is that not every forklift truck driver made redundant by warehouse automation can turn his hand to website design. There is a significant proportion of our society who are essentially suited to manual or skilled labour, and that market for that is drying up as it is either offshored or replaced by machines.
Call centres are the factories of the 21st century.
Indeed, and they are mostly in Asia.
I continually get set job information here from what on the surface of it looks like a multinational IT company, and on further enquiry it appears that said corporate actually has no meaningful operation here except a call centre.
Yes I mentioned that earlier and have said it several times also before on here. If, a la Michael "2020" Gove, you think the ECJ will strike down a deal agreed by 28 heads of state (and then we'd say: ok then) it's Leave all day long for you. Plus a supply of tinfoil hats.
It's been done before - so why not again?
Precisely.
The Denmark rejected Maastricht the Council of Europe ("heads of state") made a number of promises to Denmark concerning citizenship, border control and even the names it's citizens are allowed to use. This deal was totally ignored by the ECJ who made it plain that it was only interested in ratified treaties. It is an exactly comparable situation to our own.
(The ECJ has also thrown out a resolution by the UN Security Council on a similar basis)
Yes I mentioned that earlier and have said it several times also before on here. If, a la Michael "2020" Gove, you think the ECJ will strike down a deal agreed by 28 heads of state (and then we'd say: ok then) it's Leave all day long for you. Plus a supply of tinfoil hats.
It's been done before - so why not again?
Precisely.
The Denmark rejected Maastricht the Council of Europe ("heads of state") made a number of promises to Denmark concerning citizenship, border control and even the names it's citizens are allowed to use. This deal was totally ignored by the ECJ who made it plain that it was only interested in ratified treaties. It is an exactly comparable situation to our own.
(The ECJ has also thrown out a resolution by the UN Security Council on a similar basis)
I don't think that says that the ECJ anulled UN Security Council resolution.
They annulled the EU's implementation of it:
"If the Council of the EU modifies the sanctions regime giving effect to UNSC resolutions, these modifications could, in principle, clash with the conditions set forth by the UNSC in the existing UN sanctions regime. The EU Member States might find themselves in a situation where, by following the EC measures, they would end up violating their international obligations vis-Ã -vis the UNSC. However, rather than allowing noncompliance of the resolutions, the UNSC might consider introducing necessary improvements, thereby avoiding undermining the authority and effectiveness of the anti-terrorist sanctions regime.[27]"
With the last sentence basically saying that the UNSC should change their resolution.
So there's six automated checkouts, three of them are giving out ten pound notes extra in change, the supervisor tells you the one next to yours isn't one of them, do you stick or twist?
Yes - go to the known OK one - saves me having to queue to hand the money back.
Yes there are more stores opening up but most of the smaller stores, Tesco Express etc are mainly filled with automated checkouts with only 1 or two staff at the till
More people work for tescos etc than ever before. That is the fact. Automated tills are not putting people out of work, they are doing different jobs etc.
They are for the jobs being done, they lead to fewer checkout staff being needed. Supermarkets may expand in other areas of their operations but that is a discussion about the fortunes of supermarkets which is not relevant to the original argument that automation can put those with lower skills out of work in, for example, factory production lines or supermarket checkouts
It is entirely relevant if those who would have worked in one role in Tesco's now work in another role in the same place instead. Jobs evolve.
If all of them do get another role which may not necessarily be the case if the jobs go to new employees. The original point that supermarket checkouts are an example of jobs going as a result of automation would also still remain
Not sure that this is surprising. Of course the windiest places would be developed first, with diminishing returns as the prime locations get developed.
The EU will begin a CAP initiative to highly subsidize the sales and consumption of baked beans and protein drinks in Britain to resolve this.
So after the butter mountain and the wine lake, we'll have the baked bean bog.
Some industries will be harder hit, but new industries will develop eg who uses direct inquiries these days? But loads of people need to talk to support for their ISP and every company needs their website developing & ensuring it works 24/7.
The problem is that not every forklift truck driver made redundant by warehouse automation can turn his hand to website design. There is a significant proportion of our society who are essentially suited to manual or skilled labour, and that market for that is drying up as it is either offshored or replaced by machines.
And that will soon happen to large chunks of skilled or administrative workers too, as AI and the like eliminate more and more jobs. Progress leaves many bodies in its wake.
My original point was this...actually lower semi skilled admin jobs are what computers can do well. Working out what to clean, what to tidy etc is much harder & Ai no where on that.
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Dear Lord in heaven above, what next?
OK- we've had the Pope, Obama, Merkel, Lagarde, Clinton (both he and she) trying their best, now we have this Psychologist. Who would you suggest could come next to show us the light. Ali, my hero, his gone. Mandela is gone. We are fast running out of sensible and good people to tell us that Brexit is a bad thing.
I don't regard any of those people as "sensible and good" In fact I dislike them all and have no interest in or time for their views on any subject.
Some industries will be harder hit, but new industries will develop eg who uses direct inquiries these days? But loads of people need to talk to support for their ISP and every company needs their website developing & ensuring it works 24/7.
The problem is that not every forklift truck driver made redundant by warehouse automation can turn his hand to website design. There is a significant proportion of our society who are essentially suited to manual or skilled labour, and that market for that is drying up as it is either offshored or replaced by machines.
Call centres are the factories of the 21st century.
Indeed, and they are mostly in Asia.
I continually get set job information here from what on the surface of it looks like a multinational IT company, and on further enquiry it appears that said corporate actually has no meaningful operation here except a call centre.
Again true & not true. Huge number of ppl in UK employed in them & companies onshoring them because subtle local knowledge / understanding is very difficult to train.
Globalised marketplace is real, but automation hasn't reduced the worldwide number of jobs.
Hyufd - I never said automatation didn't replace certainly roles. I said that I didn't buy that it will mean millions of people won't have a job to go to. My point being proved by supermarkets, automatation has come in & more people are employed.
Some industries will be harder hit, but new industries will develop eg who uses direct inquiries these days? But loads of people need to talk to support for their ISP and every company needs their website developing & ensuring it works 24/7.
That may well be the case and the more creative the role the more likely it will be to grow and survive the rise of automation
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Dear Lord in heaven above, what next?
OK- we've had the Pope, Obama, Merkel, Lagarde, Clinton (both he and she) trying their best, now we have this Psychologist. Who would you suggest could come next to show us the light. Ali, my hero, his gone. Mandela is gone. We are fast running out of sensible and good people to tell us that Brexit is a bad thing.
I don't regard any of those people as "sensible and good" In fact I dislike them all and have no interest in or time for their views on any subject.
I think Daniel Kannehan's views on psychology are well worth reading: Thinking Fast and Slow is one of the best five books I've ever read.
The problem is again, lots of very simple tasks for humans are actually rather problematic for computers. And paying somebody £7 / hr, is a lot cheaper than the required investment to develop the solutions.
And as for robot factory assembly it is true, although again your iPhone still required a company that employs a million people to make.
There are not, there are 6 automatic checkouts at my local Tesco and they have obviously reduced the number of staff who work at the checkout accordingly. Yes computers may not replace all roles but where companies can automate and save costs they will
Go check figures...there are just as many (if not more) people working for Tescos, Morrisons, etc as ever before. I didn't say people working at the checkout, I said working in the supermarkets (as that is the key argument, that computerisation etc won't actually mean all these people are out of jobs, instead they do different jobs).
The introduction of the automated checkout till has not resulted in 100,000s of people who work in supermarkets being made redundant.
You only have 1 person supervising 6 automated checkouts, so that is 5 jobs lost as a result
Well, no. Not exactly. I know the Walmart model extremely well - full size stores etc, I don't know these mini markets well at all.
In a full size store, the purpose behind self-checkouts is to provide a quick out for those with just a few items, freeing up the checkout lines for the heavy duty shoppers. It's an efficiency issue, not a staffing one. The effort needed to staff 6 self-checkouts - customer assistance, hardware problems, age verification when buying alcohol, scanning errors, bag and receipt paper replenishment, cleaning up when customer get pissed and just leaves in mid-checkout etc can be immense for one person.
When folks turn up at the self-checkout with a cart full (or even 2 carts full) it completely defeats the point of the self-checkout, to the point of needing multiple staff to run the station.
So the 1 person, 6 checkouts, equals minus five people is not the case at all.
The other 5 staff are on the shop floor helping customers annoyed that the coffee or tinned soup has been moved to a different aisle from the last time they were in there.
Meanwhile, while everyone worries about mechanisation destroying jobs, Britain has more people in work than ever before.
Only because of fwke tax credit jobs like dog walkers and nail salons and jobs being split into two or more jobs because the recipients do just enough hours to get tax credits and then get it topped up by the treasury to virtually the same as a full time job.
Then. When the kids turn 18 it all stops overnight and you wake up to find a crap cv and no prospect of ever getting reasonably well paid work and £70 a week and sanctions for walking on the cracks in the pavement if you are not working
Some industries will be harder hit, but new industries will develop eg who uses direct inquiries these days? But loads of people need to talk to support for their ISP and every company needs their website developing & ensuring it works 24/7.
The problem is that not every forklift truck driver made redundant by warehouse automation can turn his hand to website design. There is a significant proportion of our society who are essentially suited to manual or skilled labour, and that market for that is drying up as it is either offshored or replaced by machines.
Call centres are the factories of the 21st century. And many companies won't offshore them and / or are onshoring them. No not everybody can become a Web developer, but new roles come along, new industries etc.
And if it all goes tits up one can always become an estate agent ;-)
Until people do all their house purchases/rentals online, though I suppose you could work for rightmove instead
The problem is again, lots of very simple tasks for humans are actually rather problematic for computers. And paying somebody £7 / hr, is a lot cheaper than the required investment to develop the solutions.
And as for robot factory assembly it is true, although again your iPhone still required a company that employs a million people to make.
There are not, there are 6 automatic checkouts at my local Tesco and they have obviously reduced the number of staff who work at the checkout accordingly. Yes computers may not replace all roles but where companies can automate and save costs they will
Go check figures...there are just as many (if not more) people working for Tescos, Morrisons, etc as ever before. I didn't say people working at the checkout, I said working in the supermarkets (as that is the key argument, that computerisation etc won't actually mean all these people are out of jobs, instead they do different jobs).
The introduction of the automated checkout till has not resulted in 100,000s of people who work in supermarkets being made redundant.
You only have 1 person supervising 6 automated checkouts, so that is 5 jobs lost as a result
Well, no. Not exactly. I know the Walmart model extremely well - full size stores etc, I don't know these mini markets well at all.
In a full size store, the purpose behind self-checkouts is to provide a quick out for those with just a few items, freeing up the checkout lines for the heavy duty shoppers. It's an efficiency issue, not a staffing one. The effort needed to staff 6 self-checkouts - customer assistance, hardware problems, age verification when buying alcohol, scanning errors, bag and receipt paper replenishment, cleaning up when customer get pissed and just leaves in mid-checkout etc can be immense for one person.
When folks turn up at the self-checkout with a cart full (or even 2 carts full) it completely defeats the point of the self-checkout, to the point of needing multiple staff to run the station.
So the 1 person, 6 checkouts, equals minus five people is not the case at all.
The other 5 staff are on the shop floor helping customers annoyed that the coffee or tinned soup has been moved to a different aisle from the last time they were in there.
Thats one thing I like about Aldi - as well as being better quality and much cheaper - same stuff always in the same place every week. Pure German efficiency and logic.
Meanwhile, while everyone worries about mechanisation destroying jobs, Britain has more people in work than ever before.
Only because of fwke tax credit jobs like dog walkers and nail salons and jobs being split into two or more jobs because the recipients do just enough hours to get tax credits and then get it topped up by the treasury to virtually the same as a full time job.
Then. When the kids turn 18 it all stops overnight and you wake up to find a crap cv and no prospect of ever getting reasonably well paid work and £70 a week and sanctions for walking on the cracks in the pavement if you are not working
Job vacancies are near their all time highs, strongly suggesting you are wrong,
Hyufd - I never said automatation didn't replace certainly roles. I said that I didn't buy that it will mean millions of people won't have a job to go to. My point being proved by supermarkets, automatation has come in & more people are employed.
Some industries will be harder hit, but new industries will develop eg who uses direct inquiries these days? But loads of people need to talk to support for their ISP and every company needs their website developing & ensuring it works 24/7.
That may well be the case and the more creative the role the more likely it will be to grow and survive the rise of automation
There is amazing growth in that. Just think how much demand there is for content these days. I have some business interest to do with twitch & not only is there casters making a living playing games, but each of those casters have artwork made, music, layouts, video makers for their YouTube channels. Whole army of creative people make livings out of others watching somebody play a video game.
Anedata alert: Met up with the cousins yesterday. One of pair of cousins who are based in Harrow have been switching between Leave and remain but are deciding on remain because they are scared of a deep recession they went to Wales for the weekend (hiking up the mountains I think the tallest one) and said "Wales is voting Leave" they saw a lot of leave posters. One is a teacher and one a child psycologist.
Another cousin said shes voting Remain again because of "a deep recession "- clearly project fear is working, her colleagues are for leave because of immigration. Tried to persuade her but project fear has taken it's hold.
My brother(studying Msc Neuroscience) is leave and so is my mum (housewife), haven't heard my dad (bus driver) say anything about it yet but think he will be remain as he normally votes whatever the union says if he votes leave then leave have won. Have seen no activity accept a few leaflets from both sides and one of my neighbours in a "stronger in" t-shirt.
The general feeling is Vote leave have not presented a strong enough vision for life outside the E.U especialy an economic one, and unfortantly it looks like that will kill.
I think you will find that there just as many workers in each supermarket. And supermarkets actually finding the automated checkouts are rather problematic for a number of reasons and actually aren't that efficient for the store or shopper.
There is a far better solution in existence, e.g. self scan in the lies of Waitrose, and again that isn't working out for them. And a few years ago the hope was just to RFID tag everything and then have readers automatically total up everything without the shopper having to do anything, but still no signs of that anywhere.
The problem is again, lots of very simple tasks for humans are actually rather problematic for computers. And paying somebody £7 / hr, is a lot cheaper than the required investment to develop the solutions.
And as for robot factory assembly it is true, although again your iPhone still required a company that employs a million people to make.
There are not, there are 6 automatic checkouts at my local Tesco and they have obviously reduced the number of staff who work at the checkout accordingly. Yes computers may not replace all roles but where companies can automate and save costs they will
Go check figures...there are just as many .
You only have 1 person supervising 6 automated checkouts, so that is 5 jobs lost as a result
Well, no. Not exactly. I know the Walmart model extremely well - full size stores etc, I don't know these mini markets well at all.
In a full size store, the purpose behind self-checkouts is to provide a quick out for those with just a few items, freeing up the checkout lines for the heavy duty shoppers. It's an efficiency issue, not a staffing one. The effort needed to staff 6 self-checkouts - customer assistance, hardware problems, age verification when buying alcohol, scanning errors, bag and receipt paper replenishment, cleaning up when customer get pissed and just leaves in mid-checkout etc can be immense for one person.
When folks turn up at the self-checkout with a cart full (or even 2 carts full) it completely defeats the point of the self-checkout, to the point of needing multiple staff to run the station.
So the 1 person, 6 checkouts, equals minus five people is not the case at all.
I've just caught up with Sir John Major's comment about Boris, IDS, and Gove
“The NHS is about as safe with them as a pet hamster would be with a hungry python”
Was anyone else expecting him to say
“The NHS is about as safe with them as a pet hamster would be with Freddie Starr”
Or he could have said about as safe as HM Treasury with John "Black Wednesday" Major, only eclipsed by Norman "If is isn't hurting, it isn't working" Lamont.
The later quote by Lamont being the one that stopped my until then life long Tory voting father ever voting Conservative again.
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Dear Lord in heaven above, what next?
OK- we've had the Pope, Obama, Merkel, Lagarde, Clinton (both he and she) trying their best, now we have this Psychologist. Who would you suggest could come next to show us the light. Ali, my hero, his gone. Mandela is gone. We are fast running out of sensible and good people to tell us that Brexit is a bad thing.
I don't regard any of those people as "sensible and good" In fact I dislike them all and have no interest in or time for their views on any subject.
I think Daniel Kannehan's views on psychology are well worth reading: Thinking Fast and Slow is one of the best five books I've ever read.
Yes he is right that itnis largely a heart decision not a head.
As to whether thst decision is right he is sufferingnd.from elite confirmation bias
Today, we get an answer thanks to the work of Valentin Kassarnig at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, who has created an artificial intelligence machine that has learned how to write political speeches that are remarkably similar to real speeches.
The approach is straightforward in principle. Kassarnig used a database of almost 4,000 political speech segments from 53 U.S. Congressional floor debates to train a machine-learning algorithm to produce speeches of its own.
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Dear Lord in heaven above, what next?
OK- we've had the Pope, Obama, Merkel, Lagarde, Clinton (both he and she) trying their best, now we have this Psychologist. Who would you suggest could come next to show us the light. Ali, my hero, his gone. Mandela is gone. We are fast running out of sensible and good people to tell us that Brexit is a bad thing.
I don't regard any of those people as "sensible and good" In fact I dislike them all and have no interest in or time for their views on any subject.
I think Daniel Kannehan's views on psychology are well worth reading: Thinking Fast and Slow is one of the best five books I've ever read.
On that recommendation (thank you) I will get hold of a copy. I was, though, referring to the named names quoted by tyson - even with his list he had no idea who Kahneman was ..."this Psychologist".
Some industries will be harder hit, but new industries will develop eg who uses direct inquiries these days? But loads of people need to talk to support for their ISP and every company needs their website developing & ensuring it works 24/7.
The problem is that not every forklift truck driver made redundant by warehouse automation can turn his hand to website design. There is a significant proportion of our society who are essentially suited to manual or skilled labour, and that market for that is drying up as it is either offshored or replaced by machines.
And that will soon happen to large chunks of skilled or administrative workers too, as AI and the like eliminate more and more jobs. Progress leaves many bodies in its wake.
Plus if we are about to have a point-based system of immigration, expect better qualified immigrants (62% of current EU immigrants have degrees, if anyone is interested).
Hyufd - I never said automatation didn't replace certainly roles. I said that I didn't buy that it will mean millions of people won't have a job to go to. My point being proved by supermarkets, automatation has come in & more people are employed.
Some industries will be harder hit, but new industries will develop eg who uses direct inquiries these days? But loads of people need to talk to support for their ISP and every company needs their website developing & ensuring it works 24/7.
That may well be the case and the more creative the role the more likely it will be to grow and survive the rise of automation
There is amazing growth in that. Just think how much demand there is for content these days. I have some business interest to do with twitch & not only is there casters making a living playing games, but each of those casters have artwork made, music, layouts, video makers for their YouTube channels. Whole army of creative people make livings out of others watching somebody play a video game.
Indeed but as pointed out earlier these jobs are only really suited to those with a high level of skills already
Hyufd - I never said automatation didn't replace certainly roles. I said that I didn't buy that it will mean millions of people won't have a job to go to. My point being proved by supermarkets, automatation has come in & more people are employed.
Some industries will be harder hit, but new industries will develop eg who uses direct inquiries these days? But loads of people need to talk to support for their ISP and every company needs their website developing & ensuring it works 24/7.
That may well be the case and the more creative the role the more likely it will be to grow and survive the rise of automation
There is amazing growth in that. Just think how much demand there is for content these days. I have some business interest to do with twitch & not only is there casters making a living playing games, but each of those casters have artwork made, music, layouts, video makers for their YouTube channels. Whole army of creative people make livings out of others watching somebody play a video game.
Not one of them used to drive a forklift truck I am willing to bet The job merry go around for talented people is always going to be good. For the manual and skilled market, not so much. New developments in CNC are making loads of craftsmen redundant for example, not to mention the rapidly developing market in 3D printing.
Hyufd - I never said automatation didn't replace certainly roles. I said that I didn't buy that it will mean millions of people won't have a job to go to. My point being proved by supermarkets, automatation has come in & more people are employed.
Some industries will be harder hit, but new industries will develop eg who uses direct inquiries these days? But loads of people need to talk to support for their ISP and every company needs their website developing & ensuring it works 24/7.
That may well be the case and the more creative the role the more likely it will be to grow and survive the rise of automation
There is amazing growth in that. Just think how much demand there is for content these days. I have some business interest to do with twitch & not only is there casters making a living playing games, but each of those casters have artwork made, music, layouts, video makers for their YouTube channels. Whole army of creative people make livings out of others watching somebody play a video game.
Hyufd - I never said automatation didn't replace certainly roles. I said that I didn't buy that it will mean millions of people won't have a job to go to. My point being proved by supermarkets, automatation has come in & more people are employed.
Some industries will be harder hit, but new industries will develop eg who uses direct inquiries these days? But loads of people need to talk to support for their ISP and every company needs their website developing & ensuring it works 24/7.
That may well be the case and the more creative the role the more likely it will be to grow and survive the rise of automation
There is amazing growth in that. Just think how much demand there is for content these days. I have some business interest to do with twitch & not only is there casters making a living playing games, but each of those casters have artwork made, music, layouts, video makers for their YouTube channels. Whole army of creative people make livings out of others watching somebody play a video game.
Indeed but as pointed out earlier these jobs are only really suited to those with a high level of skills already
Hyufd - I never said automatation didn't replace certainly roles. I said that I didn't buy that it will mean millions of people won't have a job to go to. My point being proved by supermarkets, automatation has come in & more people are employed.
Some industries will be harder hit, but new industries will develop eg who uses direct inquiries these days? But loads of people need to talk to support for their ISP and every company needs their website developing & ensuring it works 24/7.
That may well be the case and the more creative the role the more likely it will be to grow and survive the rise of automation
There is amazing growth in that. Just think how much demand there is for content these days. I have some business interest to do with twitch & not only is there casters making a living playing games, but each of those casters have artwork made, music, layouts, video makers for their YouTube channels. Whole army of creative people make livings out of others watching somebody play a video game.
Indeed but as pointed out earlier these jobs are only really suited to those with a high level of skills already
Not necessarily. I employ lower skilled people who to certain things in support. Answering emails, social media, etc which is related to creative technical endeavours. Computer Ai not close to being able to do it, see the failed chat bot experiments recently.
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Dear Lord in heaven above, what next?
OK- we've had the Pope, Obama, Merkel, Lagarde, Clinton (both he and she) trying their best, now we have this Psychologist. Who would you suggest could come next to show us the light. Ali, my hero, his gone. Mandela is gone. We are fast running out of sensible and good people to tell us that Brexit is a bad thing.
I don't regard any of those people as "sensible and good" In fact I dislike them all and have no interest in or time for their views on any subject.
I think Daniel Kannehan's views on psychology are well worth reading: Thinking Fast and Slow is one of the best five books I've ever read.
Yes he is right that itnis largely a heart decision not a head.
As to whether thst decision is right he is sufferingnd.from elite confirmation bias
Are you using your new voice recognition typing app?
I think you will find that there just as many workers in each supermarket. And supermarkets actually finding the automated checkouts are rather problematic for a number of reasons and actually aren't that efficient for the store or shopper.
There is a far better solution in existence, e.g. self scan in the lies of Waitrose, and again that isn't working out for them. And a few years ago the hope was just to RFID tag everything and then have readers automatically total up everything without the shopper having to do anything, but still no signs of that anywhere.
The problem is again, lots of very simple tasks for humans are actually rather problematic for computers. And paying somebody £7 / hr, is a lot cheaper than the required investment to develop the solutions.
And as for robot factory assembly it is true, although again your iPhone still required a company that employs a million people to make.
There are not, there are 6 automatic checkouts at my local Tesco and they have obviously reduced the number of staff who work at the checkout accordingly. Yes computers may not replace all roles but where companies can automate and save costs they will
Go check figures...there are just as many .
You only have 1 person supervising 6 automated checkouts, so that is 5 jobs lost as a result
Well, no. Not exactly. I know the Walmart model extremely well - full size stores etc, I don't know these mini markets well at all.
In a full size store, the purpose behind self-checkouts is to provide a quick out for those with just a few items, freeing up the checkout lines for the heavy duty shoppers. It's an efficiency issue, not a staffing one. The effort needed to staff 6 self-checkouts - customer assistance, hardware problems, age verification when buying alcohol, scanning errors, bag and receipt paper replenishment, cleaning up when customer get pissed and just leaves in mid-checkout etc can be immense for one person.
When folks turn up at the self-checkout with a cart full (or even 2 carts full) it completely defeats the point of the self-checkout, to the point of needing multiple staff to run the station.
So the 1 person, 6 checkouts, equals minus five people is not the case at all.
Meanwhile, while everyone worries about mechanisation destroying jobs, Britain has more people in work than ever before.
Only because of fwke tax credit jobs like dog walkers and nail salons and jobs being split into two or more jobs because the recipients do just enough hours to get tax credits and then get it topped up by the treasury to virtually the same as a full time job.
Then. When the kids turn 18 it all stops overnight and you wake up to find a crap cv and no prospect of ever getting reasonably well paid work and £70 a week and sanctions for walking on the cracks in the pavement if you are not working
Job vacancies are near their all time highs, strongly suggesting you are wrong,
What is the breakdown of full and part.time jobs.
The increasing imbalance between working age people and people too old/ill to work who are high maintenance just to keep them functioning is also affecting this.
The problem is looking after them alll isnt economic which is why there is an unsustainable deficit and record national debt.
Sadly, the best thing for our economy would be a very unpleasant and virulent flu epidemic.
My main problem with automated checkouts is simply that they don't work.
They do if you have a checkout person standing next to you the whole time to unblock the thing every time you screw it up.
Very true. The vast majority of self checkout errors, in my experience, are caused by the user screwing it up (most commonly scanning too quickly).
Machinery that can't cope with normal human use of them is very poor machinery.
It is not "normal human use" that they struggle with. It is "untrained human use". They are essentially the same POS machines used on the manned checkouts. For which staff are trained in their use. That untrained humans sometimes have problems with them is why they are supervised. The choice for the shopper is use them and accept that sometimes the process won't go smoothly, or queue for the manned checkouts which will probably take longer if you only have a small number of items to buy.
My main problem with automated checkouts is simply that they don't work.
They do if you have a checkout person standing next to you the whole time to unblock the thing every time you screw it up.
Very true. The vast majority of self checkout errors, in my experience, are caused by the user screwing it up (most commonly scanning too quickly).
or a damaged UPC code, the product not having a code at all (which means it can't be sold), price checks, age verification for alcohol sales etc etc
Are any of those a bigger problem at self checkouts than at the old-fashioned variety?
Yes, because at the new self checkouts you have to wait for the one staff member who is looking after 5 other self checkouts and a manual till to be available to help you.
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Dear Lord in heaven above, what next?
OK- we've had the Pope, Obama, Merkel, Lagarde, Clinton (both he and she) trying their best, now we have this Psychologist. Who would you suggest could come next to show us the light. Ali, my hero, his gone. Mandela is gone. We are fast running out of sensible and good people to tell us that Brexit is a bad thing.
I don't regard any of those people as "sensible and good" In fact I dislike them all and have no interest in or time for their views on any subject.
I think Daniel Kannehan's views on psychology are well worth reading: Thinking Fast and Slow is one of the best five books I've ever read.
Done. That's downloaded on to the Kindle now and queued for reading. Thanks again.
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Dear Lord in heaven above, what next?
OK- we've had the Pope, Obama, Merkel, Lagarde, Clinton (both he and she) trying their best, now we have this Psychologist. Who would you suggest could come next to show us the light. Ali, my hero, his gone. Mandela is gone. We are fast running out of sensible and good people to tell us that Brexit is a bad thing.
I don't regard any of those people as "sensible and good" In fact I dislike them all and have no interest in or time for their views on any subject.
Do you really think the Pope is bad? He is such a good man. There are few people in human history who transcend...Francis is one.
Name me one person that you think is good...Is spiritually good.....Has good vibes.....Has a wisdom........Is humble and self deprecating.....Is not interested in personal wealth.......Believes in the greater good........Has been elected to their position by their peers and not through ambition........Creates bonhomie and good feeling around them.......Gives hope.......
My main problem with automated checkouts is simply that they don't work.
They do if you have a checkout person standing next to you the whole time to unblock the thing every time you screw it up.
Very true. The vast majority of self checkout errors, in my experience, are caused by the user screwing it up (most commonly scanning too quickly).
or a damaged UPC code, the product not having a code at all (which means it can't be sold), price checks, age verification for alcohol sales etc etc
Are any of those a bigger problem at self checkouts than at the old-fashioned variety?
At a regular checkout you are looking after one station - running a self-checkout station it's quite common at peak times to have multiple people waiting for help, and let's not forget the additional checkout at the control station.
I've just caught up with Sir John Major's comment about Boris, IDS, and Gove
“The NHS is about as safe with them as a pet hamster would be with a hungry python”
Was anyone else expecting him to say
“The NHS is about as safe with them as a pet hamster would be with Freddie Starr”
A truly extraordinary outburst by John Major, irrespective of his innermost concerns. Are any of the major bookies by any chance yet offering odds on him becoming the next leader of the Labour party? This would seem to be his natural home, especially if Cameron were to resign in the wake of a REMAIN defeat and be replaced by one of the Three Musketeers.
On topic, I think there is a greater risk for Remain if Leave are seen to get a polling lead.
A lot of people thought Leave stood no chance. We were mark'd to die. Everyone was against us. The political elite. Business, the Media, even the Luvvie Light Infantry chucked a few rocks. But then when we Few, we Happy Few, we Band of Brothers look like we could just pull off the most famous victory of the Little Guy Sticking It to the Man...then everyone wants a part of that. They want to be able to boast each year on Brexit's Day of their glorious battle against the French. (And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it, mostly the French.) They want to stand a tip-toe when Brexit Day is named. Strip their sleeves and show their scars, And say "These wounds I had on Brexit day." Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember, with advantages, what feats he did that day. For he that votes for Brexit with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England then a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That voted with us upon Brexit's day.
Post of the day.
Whether for good or ill June 23rd will go down as one of the most Significant in our history if we vote out
And will mark the End of Our History if we vote to Remain...
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Dear Lord in heaven above, what next?
OK- we've had the Pope, Obama, Merkel, Lagarde, Clinton (both he and she) trying their best, now we have this Psychologist. Who would you suggest could come next to show us the light. Ali, my hero, his gone. Mandela is gone. We are fast running out of sensible and good people to tell us that Brexit is a bad thing.
I don't regard any of those people as "sensible and good" In fact I dislike them all and have no interest in or time for their views on any subject.
I think Daniel Kannehan's views on psychology are well worth reading: Thinking Fast and Slow is one of the best five books I've ever read.
Yes he is right that itnis largely a heart decision not a head.
As to whether thst decision is right he is sufferingnd.from elite confirmation bias
Are you using your new voice recognition typing app?
No a keyboard on a smartphone but the text is so small I can barely read it.
I wish Mike woulr add a mobile version of the site given most people must read it on phones these days
The supermarket checkout is actually quite a good example of where we haven't got much closer to an automated solution to the problem. There are so many wrinkles the problem in real life setting and many of which computers are currently very bad at / find very hard to do efficiency, where as a human finds it trivial.
Silly example, alcohol sale, a human is pretty damn good at looking at somebody and instantly being able to estimate they are definitely over 25, probably over 21, etc. Computers find this task very very difficult.
A partial solution would be the ability to swipe your driver's license to verify your age. I guess then the problem is you could just borrow someone else's!
Or, like me, you have the old-style non-swipeable driving licence.
Not every adult has a driving licence, and the proportion that does is in long term decline.
Classic PB myopia - I have a driving licence so everyone else must have one, stands to reason.
I've just caught up with Sir John Major's comment about Boris, IDS, and Gove
“The NHS is about as safe with them as a pet hamster would be with a hungry python”
Was anyone else expecting him to say
“The NHS is about as safe with them as a pet hamster would be with Freddie Starr”
A truly extraordinary outburst by John Major, irrespective of his innermost concerns. Are any of the major bookies by any chance yet offering odds on him becoming the next leader of the Labour party? This would seem to be his natural home, especially if Cameron were to resign in the wake of a REMAIN defeat and be replaced by one of the Three Musketeers.
Like I said earlier, this is very personal for John Major.
He thinks the same people who are now leading lights of the Brexit campaign (who might conceivably win) are the same ones who brought down his premiership in the 1990s.
(3d) Printers are a good example. 100.years ago only industrial printing presses, now everybody has a printer at home. Professional printing still,exists, but also this massive industry making printers, scanners, photocopiers & all the ink, repairs, maintenance etc etc etc. More people than ever working to do with printing, despite it used to be this very skilled job now any idiot can rattle off a poster.
I can foresee 3d printers going a similar way and CNC machines etc. Yes the guy bashing metal won't be much good, but there will be demand for people who used to use their skilled engineering knowledge to shape a component, rather they will draw that into the computer.
It already happens with car parts. That there are specialist firms popping up who will make you a bit for your cars where they don't make that part anymore, or you want to mod your car etc. Rather than necessarily putting people out of a job, it is opening up new job opportunities.
I've just caught up with Sir John Major's comment about Boris, IDS, and Gove
“The NHS is about as safe with them as a pet hamster would be with a hungry python”
Was anyone else expecting him to say
“The NHS is about as safe with them as a pet hamster would be with Freddie Starr”
A truly extraordinary outburst by John Major, irrespective of his innermost concerns. Are any of the major bookies by any chance yet offering odds on him becoming the next leader of the Labour party? This would seem to be his natural home, especially if Cameron were to resign in the wake of a REMAIN defeat and be replaced by one of the Three Musketeers.
It's panic. When panic sets in rational thought vanishes - you can even ask that lunatic psychologist in the Telegraph and he'll confirm it. Remain are getting more and more hysterical and are losing their discipline.
The supermarket checkout is actually quite a good example of where we haven't got much closer to an automated solution to the problem. There are so many wrinkles the problem in real life setting and many of which computers are currently very bad at / find very hard to do efficiency, where as a human finds it trivial.
Silly example, alcohol sale, a human is pretty damn good at looking at somebody and instantly being able to estimate they are definitely over 25, probably over 21, etc. Computers find this task very very difficult.
A partial solution would be the ability to swipe your driver's license to verify your age. I guess then the problem is you could just borrow someone else's!
Or, like me, you have the old-style non-swipeable driving licence.
Not every adult has a driving licence, and the proportion that does is in long term decline.
Classic PB myopia - I have a driving licence so everyone else must have one, stands to reason.
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Dear Lord in heaven above, what next?
OK- we've had the Pope, Obama, Merkel, Lagarde, Clinton (both he and she) trying their best, now we have this Psychologist. Who would you suggest could come next to show us the light. Ali, my hero, his gone. Mandela is gone. We are fast running out of sensible and good people to tell us that Brexit is a bad thing.
I don't regard any of those people as "sensible and good" In fact I dislike them all and have no interest in or time for their views on any subject.
Do you really think the Pope is bad? He is such a good man. There are few people in human history who transcend...Francis is one.
Name me one person that you think is good...Is spiritually good.....Has good vibes.....Has a wisdom........Is humble and self deprecating.....Is not interested in personal wealth.......Believes in the greater good........Has been elected to their position by their peers and not through ambition........Creates bonhomie and good feeling around them.......Gives hope.......
Hyufd - I never said automatation didn't replace certainly roles. I said that I didn't buy that it will mean millions of people won't have a job to go to. My point being proved by supermarkets, automatation has come in & more people are employed.
Some industries will be harder hit, but new industries will develop eg who uses direct inquiries these days? But loads of people need to talk to support for their ISP and every company needs their website developing & ensuring it works 24/7.
That may well be the case and the more creative the role the more likely it will be to grow and survive the rise of automation
There is amazing gro
Indeed but as pointed out earlier these jobs are only really suited to those with a high level of skills already
Hyufd - I never said automatation didn't replace certainly roles. I said that I didn't buy that it will mean millions of people won't have a job to go to. My point being proved by supermarkets, automatation has come in & more people are employed.
Some industries will be harder hit, but new industries will develop eg who uses direct inquiries these days? But loads of people need to talk to support for their ISP and every company needs their website developing & ensuring it works 24/7.
That may well be the case and the more creative the role the more likely it will be to grow and survive the rise of automation
There is amazing growth in that. Just think how much demand there is for content these days. I have some business interest to do with twitch & not only is there casters making a living playing games, but each of those casters have artwork made, music, layouts, video makers for their YouTube channels. Whole army of creative people make livings out of others watching somebody play a video game.
Indeed but as pointed out earlier these jobs are only really suited to those with a high level of skills already
Not necessarily. I employ lower skilled people who to certain things in support. Answering emails, social media, etc which is related to creative technical endeavours. Computer Ai not close to being able to do it, see the failed chat bot experiments recently.
Some industries will be harder hit, but new industries will develop eg who uses direct inquiries these days? But loads of people need to talk to support for their ISP and every company needs their website developing & ensuring it works 24/7.
The problem is that not every forklift truck driver made redundant by warehouse automation can turn his hand to website design. There is a significant proportion of our society who are essentially suited to manual or skilled labour, and that market for that is drying up as it is either offshored or replaced by machines.
Call centres are the factories of the 21st century. And many companies won't offshore them and / or are onshoring them. No not everybody can become a Web developer, but new roles come along, new industries etc.
And if it all goes tits up one can always become an estate agent ;-)
Until people do all their house purchases/rentals online, though I suppose you could work for rightmove instead
Is there no subject on which you're not magnificently overconfident and woefully ignorant?
I think you will find that there just as many workers in each supermarket. And supermarkets actually finding the automated checkouts are rather problematic for a number of reasons and actually aren't that efficient for the store or shopper.
There is a far better solution in existence, e.g. self scan in the lies of Waitrose, and again that isn't working out for them. And a few years ago the hope was just to RFID tag everything and then have readers automatically total up everything without the shopper having to do anything, but still no signs of that anywhere.
The problem is again, lots of very simple tasks for humans are actually rather problematic for computers. And paying somebody £7 / hr, is a lot cheaper than the required investment to develop the solutions.
And as for robot factory assembly it is true, although again your iPhone still required a company that employs a million people to make.
There are not, there are 6 automatic checkouts at my local Tesco and they have obviously reduced the number of staff who work at the checkout accordingly. Yes computers may not replace all roles but where companies can automate and save costs they will
Go check figures...there are just as many .
You only have 1 person supervising 6 automated checkouts, so that is 5 jobs lost as a result
Well, no. Not exactly. I know the Walmart model extremely well - full size stores etc, I don't know these mini markets well at all.
In a full size store, the purpose behind self-checkouts is to provide a quick out for those with just a few items, freeing up the checkout lines for the heavy duty shoppers. It's an efficiency issue, not a staffing one. The effort needed to staff 6 self-checkouts - customer assistance, hardware problems, age verification when buying alcohol, scanning errors, bag and receipt paper replenishment, cleaning up when customer get pissed and just leaves in mid-checkout etc can be immense for one person.
When folks turn up at the self-checkout with a cart full (or even 2 carts full) it completely defeats the point of the self-checkout, to the point of needing multiple staff to run the station.
So the 1 person, 6 checkouts, equals minus five people is not the case at all.
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Dear Lord in heaven above, what next?
OK- we've had the Pope, Obama, Merkel, Lagarde, Clinton (both he and she) trying their best, now we have this Psychologist. Who would you suggest could come next to show us the light. Ali, my hero, his gone. Mandela is gone. We are fast running out of sensible and good people to tell us that Brexit is a bad thing.
I don't regard any of those people as "sensible and good" In fact I dislike them all and have no interest in or time for their views on any subject.
Do you really think the Pope is bad? He is such a good man. There are few people in human history who transcend...Francis is one.
Name me one person that you think is good...Is spiritually good.....Has good vibes.....Has a wisdom........Is humble and self deprecating.....Is not interested in personal wealth.......Believes in the greater good........Has been elected to their position by their peers and not through ambition........Creates bonhomie and good feeling around them.......Gives hope.......
And who supports Brexit.....
The answer is obvious given Brexit is the Will of God..
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Dear Lord in heaven above, what next?
OK- we've had the Pope, Obama, Merkel, Lagarde, Clinton (both he and she) trying their best, now we have this Psychologist. Who would you suggest could come next to show us the light. Ali, my hero, his gone. Mandela is gone. We are fast running out of sensible and good people to tell us that Brexit is a bad thing.
I don't regard any of those people as "sensible and good" In fact I dislike them all and have no interest in or time for their views on any subject.
Do you really think the Pope is bad? He is such a good man. There are few people in human history who transcend...Francis is one.
Name me one person that you think is good...Is spiritually good.....Has good vibes.....Has a wisdom........Is humble and self deprecating.....Is not interested in personal wealth.......Believes in the greater good........Has been elected to their position by their peers and not through ambition........Creates bonhomie and good feeling around them.......Gives hope.......
Comments
Automated checkouts take up less space. They appear to have generally led to an increase in the number of checkouts. Most supermarkets employ people who can do multiple jobs, and can be switched to the checkouts at periods of high demand.
OK- we've had the Pope, Obama, Merkel, Lagarde, Clinton (both he and she) trying their best, now we have this Psychologist. Who would you suggest could come next to show us the light. Ali, my hero, his gone. Mandela is gone. We are fast running out of sensible and good people to tell us that Brexit is a bad thing.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/04/england-not-windy-enough-admits-wind-industry-chief/
Some industries will be harder hit, but new industries will develop eg who uses direct inquiries these days? But loads of people need to talk to support for their ISP and every company needs their website developing & ensuring it works 24/7.
Seems I'm too late.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/03/dalai-lama-distances-himself-from-brexit-poster
In a full size store, the purpose behind self-checkouts is to provide a quick out for those with just a few items, freeing up the checkout lines for the heavy duty shoppers. It's an efficiency issue, not a staffing one. The effort needed to staff 6 self-checkouts - customer assistance, hardware problems, age verification when buying alcohol, scanning errors, bag and receipt paper replenishment, cleaning up when customer get pissed and just leaves in mid-checkout etc can be immense for one person.
When folks turn up at the self-checkout with a cart full (or even 2 carts full) it completely defeats the point of the self-checkout, to the point of needing multiple staff to run the station.
So the 1 person, 6 checkouts, equals minus five people is not the case at all.
And if it all goes tits up one can always become an estate agent ;-)
The public see 300,000 new people every year. How many new homes need to be built? They may be younger, but that means loads of new pregnancies, loads of new school places needed.
Remain could say ... "We'll build new houses, we'll employ loads more midwifes and other medical staff, loads more schools will be built, and loads more teachers employed."
But they don't. They scream "Racist" instead. And they expect to be trusted.
They hope no one will notice the problem. I suppose if you can afford private medical care, fee-paying schools, and you have a big house in the South, you don't see the problem.
I continually get set job information here from what on the surface of it looks like a multinational IT company, and on further enquiry it appears that said corporate actually has no meaningful operation here except a call centre.
"If the Council of the EU modifies the sanctions regime giving effect to UNSC resolutions, these modifications could, in principle, clash with the conditions set forth by the UNSC in the existing UN sanctions regime. The EU Member States might find themselves in a situation where, by following the EC measures, they would end up violating their international obligations vis-Ã -vis the UNSC. However, rather than allowing noncompliance of the resolutions, the UNSC might consider introducing necessary improvements, thereby avoiding undermining the authority and effectiveness of the anti-terrorist sanctions regime.[27]"
With the last sentence basically saying that the UNSC should change their resolution.
“The NHS is about as safe with them as a pet hamster would be with a hungry python”
Was anyone else expecting him to say
“The NHS is about as safe with them as a pet hamster would be with Freddie Starr”
So after the butter mountain and the wine lake, we'll have the baked bean bog.
In fact I dislike them all and have no interest in or time for their views on any subject.
Globalised marketplace is real, but automation hasn't reduced the worldwide number of jobs.
Then. When the kids turn 18 it all stops overnight and you wake up to find a crap cv and no prospect of ever getting reasonably well paid work and £70 a week and sanctions for walking on the cracks in the pavement if you are not working
And while we are on the subject, the Co-Op has upped its game recently.
Are the hedgies still in charge? Or is that the Bank?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3625697/Freddie-Starr-s-wife-Sophie-files-divorce-claimed-violent-son-domestic-row.html
Another cousin said shes voting Remain again because of "a deep recession "- clearly project fear is working, her colleagues are for leave because of immigration. Tried to persuade her but project fear has taken it's hold.
My brother(studying Msc Neuroscience) is leave and so is my mum (housewife), haven't heard my dad (bus driver) say anything about it yet but think he will be remain as he normally votes whatever the union says if he votes leave then leave have won. Have seen no activity accept a few leaflets from both sides and one of my neighbours in a "stronger in" t-shirt.
The general feeling is Vote leave have not presented a strong enough vision for life outside the E.U especialy an economic one, and unfortantly it looks like that will kill.
The later quote by Lamont being the one that stopped my until then life long Tory voting father ever voting Conservative again.
Unless you're saying I'm superhuman.
As to whether thst decision is right he is sufferingnd.from elite confirmation bias
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/545606/how-an-ai-algorithm-learned-to-write-political-speeches/
Today, we get an answer thanks to the work of Valentin Kassarnig at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst, who has created an artificial intelligence machine that has learned how to write political speeches that are remarkably similar to real speeches.
The approach is straightforward in principle. Kassarnig used a database of almost 4,000 political speech segments from 53 U.S. Congressional floor debates to train a machine-learning algorithm to produce speeches of its own.
I was, though, referring to the named names quoted by tyson - even with his list he had no idea who Kahneman was ..."this Psychologist".
Not quite below NAIRU but bumping along close by.
The increasing imbalance between working age people and people too old/ill to work who are high maintenance just to keep them functioning is also affecting this.
The problem is looking after them alll isnt economic which is why there is an unsustainable deficit and record national debt.
Sadly, the best thing for our economy would be a very unpleasant and virulent flu epidemic.
Thanks again.
Name me one person that you think is good...Is spiritually good.....Has good vibes.....Has a wisdom........Is humble and self deprecating.....Is not interested in personal wealth.......Believes in the greater good........Has been elected to their position by their peers and not through ambition........Creates bonhomie and good feeling around them.......Gives hope.......
And who supports Brexit.....
Are any of the major bookies by any chance yet offering odds on him becoming the next leader of the Labour party? This would seem to be his natural home, especially if Cameron were to resign in the wake of a REMAIN defeat and be replaced by one of the Three Musketeers.
I wish Mike woulr add a mobile version of the site given most people must read it on phones these days
Classic PB myopia - I have a driving licence so everyone else must have one, stands to reason.
He gets 1 vote, just like his constituents
He thinks the same people who are now leading lights of the Brexit campaign (who might conceivably win) are the same ones who brought down his premiership in the 1990s.
He hates them.
I can foresee 3d printers going a similar way and CNC machines etc. Yes the guy bashing metal won't be much good, but there will be demand for people who used to use their skilled engineering knowledge to shape a component, rather they will draw that into the computer.
It already happens with car parts. That there are specialist firms popping up who will make you a bit for your cars where they don't make that part anymore, or you want to mod your car etc. Rather than necessarily putting people out of a job, it is opening up new job opportunities.
Next.
Whenever a Brexiteer gets confused by logic and loses an argument, they bleat "goats"