Gove's mucking up of the plans for the post-Brexit scenario has got me really worried. If someone of his intellectual capability doesn't know what the hell is going on, where does that leave the other jokers who will have to make this thing work? The Leavers around here have been nothing if not noisy. My bet is that in a couple of months' time things will have quietened done somewhat when the stark reality of what they've done sinks in.
Scotland's Andy Murray loses in the final of the French Open
But at least Britain's Andy Murray took the first set!
Murray's marketing guys have obviously advised him to ingratiate himself with his biggest market by exhibiting the qualities of English tennis. Bad start with the first set but ultimate mission accomplished.
On topic, I think there is a greater risk for Remain if Leave are seen to get a polling lead.
A lot of people thought Leave stood no chance. We were mark'd to die. Everyone was against us. The political elite. Business, the Media, even the Luvvie Light Infantry chucked a few rocks. But then when we Few, we Happy Few, we Band of Brothers look like we could just pull off the most famous victory of the Little Guy Sticking It to the Man...then everyone wants a part of that. They want to be able to boast each year on Brexit's Day of their glorious battle against the French. (And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it, mostly the French.) They want to stand a tip-toe when Brexit Day is named. Strip their sleeves and show their scars, And say "These wounds I had on Brexit day." Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember, with advantages, what feats he did that day. For he that votes for Brexit with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England then a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That voted with us upon Brexit's day.
You make it sound as though 23 June should in future be commemorated by being declared a public holiday ..... I concur - it also happens to be my birthday!
But the only people who can celebrate at your birthday party are Brexiteers.
*TSE stands with his nose pressed against the glass, peering in all forlorn as we raise a glass to vanquishing the French. And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it. mostly the French...)
On topic, I think there is a greater risk for Remain if Leave are seen to get a polling lead.
A lot of people thought Leave stood no chance. We were mark'd to die. Everyone was against us. The political elite. Business, the Media, even the Luvvie Light Infantry chucked a few rocks. But then when we Few, we Happy Few, we Band of Brothers look like we could just pull off the most famous victory of the Little Guy Sticking It to the Man...then everyone wants a part of that. They want to be able to boast each year on Brexit's Day of their glorious battle against the French. (And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it, mostly the French.) They want to stand a tip-toe when Brexit Day is named. Strip their sleeves and show their scars, And say "These wounds I had on Brexit day." Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember, with advantages, what feats he did that day. For he that votes for Brexit with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England then a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That voted with us upon Brexit's day.
You make it sound as though 23 June should in future be commemorated by being declared a public holiday ..... I concur - it also happens to be my birthday!
But the only people who can celebrate at your birthday party are Brexiteers.
*TSE stands with his nose pressed against the glass, peering in all forlorn as we raise a glass to vanquishing the French. And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it. mostly the French...)
If its leave TSE will be too busy along with all the other lawyers listening to the sound of their cash register ringing.
On topic, I think there is a greater risk for Remain if Leave are seen to get a polling lead.
A lot of people thought Leave stood no chance. We were mark'd to die. Everyone was against us. The political elite. Business, the Media, even the Luvvie Light Infantry chucked a few rocks. But then when we Few, we Happy Few, we Band of Brothers look like we could just pull off the most famous victory of the Little Guy Sticking It to the Man...then everyone wants a part of that. They want to be able to boast each year on Brexit's Day of their glorious battle against the French. (And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it, mostly the French.) They want to stand a tip-toe when Brexit Day is named. Strip their sleeves and show their scars, And say "These wounds I had on Brexit day." Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember, with advantages, what feats he did that day. For he that votes for Brexit with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England then a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That voted with us upon Brexit's day.
You make it sound as though 23 June should in future be commemorated by being declared a public holiday ..... I concur - it also happens to be my birthday!
But the only people who can celebrate at your birthday party are Brexiteers.
*TSE stands with his nose pressed against the glass, peering in all forlorn as we raise a glass to vanquishing the French. And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it. mostly the French...)
If its leave TSE will be too busy along with all the other lawyers listening to the sound of their cash register ringing.
Lawyers will always make money. Whoever wins, they win.
Note to self....If Brexit win come June 23rd, under no circumstances venture onto this site. It would be a tortuous fate worse than death, a living hell of gloating nightmares. In fact I would rather......I can't think of anything sufficiently bad.
On topic, I think there is a greater risk for Remain if Leave are seen to get a polling lead.
A lot of people thought Leave stood no chance. We were mark'd to die. Everyone was against us. The political elite. Business, the Media, even the Luvvie Light Infantry chucked a few rocks. But then when we Few, we Happy Few, we Band of Brothers look like we could just pull off the most famous victory of the Little Guy Sticking It to the Man...then everyone wants a part of that. They want to be able to boast each year on Brexit's Day of their glorious battle against the French. (And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it, mostly the French.) They want to stand a tip-toe when Brexit Day is named. Strip their sleeves and show their scars, And say "These wounds I had on Brexit day." Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember, with advantages, what feats he did that day. For he that votes for Brexit with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England then a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That voted with us upon Brexit's day.
On topic, I think there is a greater risk for Remain if Leave are seen to get a polling lead.
A lot of people thought Leave stood no chance. We were mark'd to die. Everyone was against us. The political elite. Business, the Media, even the Luvvie Light Infantry chucked a few rocks. But then when we Few, we Happy Few, we Band of Brothers look like we could just pull off the most famous victory of the Little Guy Sticking It to the Man...then everyone wants a part of that. They want to be able to boast each year on Brexit's Day of their glorious battle against the French. (And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it, mostly the French.) They want to stand a tip-toe when Brexit Day is named. Strip their sleeves and show their scars, And say "These wounds I had on Brexit day." Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember, with advantages, what feats he did that day. For he that votes for Brexit with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England then a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That voted with us upon Brexit's day.
You make it sound as though 23 June should in future be commemorated by being declared a public holiday ..... I concur - it also happens to be my birthday!
You and your fellow Leavers are going to love my next thread, is going up around 8.30ish.
I'm struggling to see the reference. Is it Murray losing? Is it the prospect of a Brexit? Is it that you've decided in your infinite wisdom that we should all listen to this song, at this moment, at this time? Is it an oblique reference to the fact that you've just lost cash backing Murray perchance.
I've lost 50 quid today on Murray. Betting on sports is a mugs game.
Note to self....If Brexit win come June 23rd, under no circumstances venture onto this site. It would be a tortuous fate worse than death, a living hell of gloating nightmares. In fact I would rather......I can't think of anything sufficiently bad.
On topic, I think there is a greater risk for Remain if Leave are seen to get a polling lead.
A lot of people thought Leave stood no chance. We were mark'd to die. Everyone was against us. The political elite. Business, the Media, even the Luvvie Light Infantry chucked a few rocks. But then when we Few, we Happy Few, we Band of Brothers look like we could just pull off the most famous victory of the Little Guy Sticking It to the Man...then everyone wants a part of that. They want to be able to boast each year on Brexit's Day of their glorious battle against the French. (And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it, mostly the French.) They want to stand a tip-toe when Brexit Day is named. Strip their sleeves and show their scars, And say "These wounds I had on Brexit day." Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember, with advantages, what feats he did that day. For he that votes for Brexit with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England then a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That voted with us upon Brexit's day.
On topic, I think there is a greater risk for Remain if Leave are seen to get a polling lead.
A lot of people thought Leave stood no chance. We were mark'd to die. Everyone was against us. The political elite. Business, the Media, even the Luvvie Light Infantry chucked a few rocks. But then when we Few, we Happy Few, we Band of Brothers look like we could just pull off the most famous victory of the Little Guy Sticking It to the Man...then everyone wants a part of that. They want to be able to boast each year on Brexit's Day of their glorious battle against the French. (And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it, mostly the French.) They want to stand a tip-toe when Brexit Day is named. Strip their sleeves and show their scars, And say "These wounds I had on Brexit day." Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember, with advantages, what feats he did that day. For he that votes for Brexit with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England then a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That voted with us upon Brexit's day.
You make it sound as though 23 June should in future be commemorated by being declared a public holiday ..... I concur - it also happens to be my birthday!
You and your fellow Leavers are going to love my next thread, is going up around 8.30ish.
I think some of you might squee in delight.
Poll embargo ends?
Nope, this is non poll related thread.
I do call Leavers stupid though, but it is a very positive thread for Leave.
Note to self....If Brexit win come June 23rd, under no circumstances venture onto this site. It would be a tortuous fate worse than death, a living hell of gloating nightmares. In fact I would rather......I can't think of anything sufficiently bad.
On topic, I think there is a greater risk for Remain if Leave are seen to get a polling lead.
A lot of people thought Leave stood no chance. We were mark'd to die. Everyone was against us. The political elite. Business, the Media, even the Luvvie Light Infantry chucked a few rocks. But then when we Few, we Happy Few, we Band of Brothers look like we could just pull off the most famous victory of the Little Guy Sticking It to the Man...then everyone wants a part of that. They want to be able to boast each year on Brexit's Day of their glorious battle against the French. (And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it, mostly the French.) They want to stand a tip-toe when Brexit Day is named. Strip their sleeves and show their scars, And say "These wounds I had on Brexit day." Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember, with advantages, what feats he did that day. For he that votes for Brexit with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England then a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That voted with us upon Brexit's day.
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You could cheer yourself up by reading the "Reek" chapters from A Dance with Dragons.
Note to self....If Brexit win come June 23rd, under no circumstances venture onto this site. It would be a tortuous fate worse than death, a living hell of gloating nightmares. In fact I would rather......I can't think of anything sufficiently bad.
On topic, I think there is a greater risk for Remain if Leave are seen to get a polling lead.
A lot of people thought Leave stood no chance. We were mark'd to die. Everyone was against us. The political elite. Business, the Media, even the Luvvie Light Infantry chucked a few rocks. But then when we Few, we Happy Few, we Band of Brothers look like we could just pull off the most famous victory of the Little Guy Sticking It to the Man...then everyone wants a part of that. They want to be able to boast each year on Brexit's Day of their glorious battle against the French. (And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it, mostly the French.) They want to stand a tip-toe when Brexit Day is named. Strip their sleeves and show their scars, And say "These wounds I had on Brexit day." Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember, with advantages, what feats he did that day. For he that votes for Brexit with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England then a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That voted with us upon Brexit's day.
Like
Tories winning in May 2015?...
I didn't go anywhere near pbCOM for months after May 2015. What do you think I am? Some kind of perverted masochist? For our Brexiters here, the added bonus of a Brexit win will be to push the likes of me and Roger into some kind of self imposed exile for some time.
On the other hand if remain win- I'll be on here, the second after the result, gloating, pissing on all your Brexit parades, deifying Cameron, and most of all laughing at your misery. I can almost taste the sweetness of it all. Almost.
Note to self....If Brexit win come June 23rd, under no circumstances venture onto this site. It would be a tortuous fate worse than death, a living hell of gloating nightmares. In fact I would rather......I can't think of anything sufficiently bad.
On topic, I think there is a greater risk for Remain if Leave are seen to get a polling lead.
A lot of people thought Leave stood no chance. We were mark'd to die. Everyone was against us. The political elite. Business, the Media, even the Luvvie Light Infantry chucked a few rocks. But then when we Few, we Happy Few, we Band of Brothers look like we could just pull off the most famous victory of the Little Guy Sticking It to the Man...then everyone wants a part of that. They want to be able to boast each year on Brexit's Day of their glorious battle against the French. (And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it, mostly the French.) They want to stand a tip-toe when Brexit Day is named. Strip their sleeves and show their scars, And say "These wounds I had on Brexit day." Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember, with advantages, what feats he did that day. For he that votes for Brexit with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England then a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That voted with us upon Brexit's day.
Like
Tories winning in May 2015?...
I didn't go anywhere near pbCOM for months after May 2015. What do you think I am? Some kind of perverted masochist? For our Brexiters here, the added bonus of a Brexit win will be to push the likes of me and Roger into some kind of self imposed exile for some time.
On the other hand if remain win- I'll be on here, the second after the result, gloating, pissing on all your Brexit parades, deifying Cameron, and most of all laughing at your misery. I can almost taste the sweetness of it all. Almost.
Note to self....If Brexit win come June 23rd, under no circumstances venture onto this site. It would be a tortuous fate worse than death, a living hell of gloating nightmares. In fact I would rather......I can't think of anything sufficiently bad.
On topic, I think there is a greater risk for Remain if Leave are seen to get a polling lead.
A lot of people thought Leave stood no chance. We were mark'd to die. Everyone was against us. The political elite. Business, the Media, even the Luvvie Light Infantry chucked a few rocks. But then when we Few, we Happy Few, we Band of Brothers look like we could just pull off the most famous victory of the Little Guy Sticking It to the Man...then everyone wants a part of that. They want to be able to boast each year on Brexit's Day of their glorious battle against the French. (And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it, mostly the French.) They want to stand a tip-toe when Brexit Day is named. Strip their sleeves and show their scars, And say "These wounds I had on Brexit day." Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember, with advantages, what feats he did that day. For he that votes for Brexit with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England then a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That voted with us upon Brexit's day.
Like
You could cheer yourself up by reading the "Reek" chapters from A Dance with Dragons.
I've almost caught up with GOT- well, I'm up to episode 2 of 6. And no Jon Snow didn't sacrifice a baby. Not in the episodes I saw. I'm never going to trust anything you tell me.
Note to self....If Brexit win come June 23rd, under no circumstances venture onto this site. It would be a tortuous fate worse than death, a living hell of gloating nightmares. In fact I would rather......I can't think of anything sufficiently bad.
On topic, I think there is a greater risk for Remain if Leave are seen to get a polling lead.
A lot of people thought Leave stood no chance. We were mark'd to die. Everyone was against us. The political elite. Business, the Media, even the Luvvie Light Infantry chucked a few rocks. But then when we Few, we Happy Few, we Band of Brothers look like we could just pull off the most famous victory of the Little Guy Sticking It to the Man...then everyone wants a part of that. They want to be able to boast each year on Brexit's Day of their glorious battle against the French. (And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it, mostly the French.) They want to stand a tip-toe when Brexit Day is named. Strip their sleeves and show their scars, And say "These wounds I had on Brexit day." Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember, with advantages, what feats he did that day. For he that votes for Brexit with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England then a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That voted with us upon Brexit's day.
Like
Tories winning in May 2015?...
I didn't go anywhere near pbCOM for months after May 2015. What do you think I am? Some kind of perverted masochist? For our Brexiters here, the added bonus of a Brexit win will be to push the likes of me and Roger into some kind of self imposed exile for some time.
On the other hand if remain win- I'll be on here, the second after the result, gloating, pissing on all your Brexit parades, deifying Cameron, and most of all laughing at your misery. I can almost taste the sweetness of it all. Almost.
You need to get a life, if you are older than sixteen you are a real saddo
On topic, I think there is a greater risk for Remain if Leave are seen to get a polling lead.
A lot of people thought Leave stood no chance. We were mark'd to die. Everyone was against us. The political elite. Business, the Media, even the Luvvie Light Infantry chucked a few rocks. But then when we Few, we Happy Few, we Band of Brothers look like we could just pull off the most famous victory of the Little Guy Sticking It to the Man...then everyone wants a part of that. They want to be able to boast each year on Brexit's Day of their glorious battle against the French. (And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it, mostly the French.) They want to stand a tip-toe when Brexit Day is named. Strip their sleeves and show their scars, And say "These wounds I had on Brexit day." Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember, with advantages, what feats he did that day. For he that votes for Brexit with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England then a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That voted with us upon Brexit's day.
You make it sound as though 23 June should in future be commemorated by being declared a public holiday ..... I concur - it also happens to be my birthday!
But the only people who can celebrate at your birthday party are Brexiteers.
*TSE stands with his nose pressed against the glass, peering in all forlorn as we raise a glass to vanquishing the French. And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it. mostly the French...)
If its leave TSE will be too busy along with all the other lawyers listening to the sound of their cash register ringing.
Time for Brexit to adopt another Shakespearian policy?
"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers..."
There are far fewer checkout workers now because of the automated checkouts which have replaced them with maybe 1 person to assist if needed. Robot factory assembly lines are now used for all but the most skilled tasks. I would agree new sectors will open up, with the most creative having the best advantage
I think you will find that there just as many workers in each supermarket. And supermarkets actually finding the automated checkouts are rather problematic for a number of reasons and actually aren't that efficient for the store or shopper.
There is a far better solution in existence, e.g. self scan in the lies of Waitrose, and again that isn't working out for them. And a few years ago the hope was just to RFID tag everything and then have readers automatically total up everything without the shopper having to do anything, but still no signs of that anywhere.
The problem is again, lots of very simple tasks for humans are actually rather problematic for computers. And paying somebody £7 / hr, is a lot cheaper than the required investment to develop the solutions.
And as for robot factory assembly it is true, although again your iPhone still required a company that employs a million people to make.
There are not, there are 6 automatic checkouts at my local Tesco and they have obviously reduced the number of staff who work at the checkout accordingly. Yes computers may not replace all roles but where companies can automate and save costs they will
Go check figures...there are just as many (if not more) people working for Tescos, Morrisons, etc as ever before. I didn't say people working at the checkout, I said working in the supermarkets (as that is the key argument, that computerisation etc won't actually mean all these people are out of jobs, instead they do different jobs).
The introduction of the automated checkout till has not resulted in 100,000s of people who work in supermarkets being made redundant.
Note to self....If Brexit win come June 23rd, under no circumstances venture onto this site. It would be a tortuous fate worse than death, a living hell of gloating nightmares. In fact I would rather......I can't think of anything sufficiently bad.
On topic, I think there is a greater risk for Remain if Leave are seen to get a polling lead.
A lot of people thought Leave stood no chance. We were mark'd to die. Everyone was against us. The political elite. Business, the Media, even the Luvvie Light Infantry chucked a few rocks. But then when we Few, we Happy Few, we Band of Brothers look like we could just pull off the most famous victory of the Little Guy Sticking It to the Man...then everyone wants a part of that. They want to be able to boast each year on Brexit's Day of their glorious battle against the French. (And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it, mostly the French.) They want to stand a tip-toe when Brexit Day is named. Strip their sleeves and show their scars, And say "These wounds I had on Brexit day." Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember, with advantages, what feats he did that day. For he that votes for Brexit with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England then a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That voted with us upon Brexit's day.
Like
Tories winning in May 2015?...
I didn't go anywhere near pbCOM for months after May 2015.
Note to self....If Brexit win come June 23rd, under no circumstances venture onto this site. It would be a tortuous fate worse than death, a living hell of gloating nightmares. In fact I would rather......I can't think of anything sufficiently bad.
On topic, I think there is a greater risk for Remain if Leave are seen to get a polling lead.
A lot of people thought Leave stood no chance. We were mark'd to die. Everyone was against us. The political elite. Business, the Media, even the Luvvie Light Infantry chucked a few rocks. But then when we Few, we Happy Few, we Band of Brothers look like we could just pull off the most famous victory of the Little Guy Sticking It to the Man...then everyone wants a part of that. They want to be able to boast each year on Brexit's Day of their glorious battle against the French. (And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it, mostly the French.) They want to stand a tip-toe when Brexit Day is named. Strip their sleeves and show their scars, And say "These wounds I had on Brexit day." Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember, with advantages, what feats he did that day. For he that votes for Brexit with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England then a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That voted with us upon Brexit's day.
I saw a comment down thread about reading all the doom laden reports saying we shouldn't leave.
I have. They're not particularly doom laden. As far as doom goes, when you actually read them, they say it will, broadly speaking, be hard to notice the difference. A few % of notional GDP growth by 2030, as if economists actually had an idea what 2030 will look like.
Then the doom of a recession if we leave. 1 year long recession. Apparently it will be 4 straight quarters of -0.1% GDP contraction.
What all these assume is that a Brexit government will not be out forging free trade deals. If we do, then by 2030 I would say we would see no difference to a slight positive.
So all the Remainers on here predicting the sky will fall in if we leave, it wont. That is not what the reports actually say.
Note to self....If Brexit win come June 23rd, under no circumstances venture onto this site. It would be a tortuous fate worse than death, a living hell of gloating nightmares. In fact I would rather......I can't think of anything sufficiently bad.
On topic, I think there is a greater risk for Remain if Leave are seen to get a polling lead.
A lot of people thought Leave stood no chance. We were mark'd to die. Everyone was against us. The political elite. Business, the Media, even the Luvvie Light Infantry chucked a few rocks. But then when we Few, we Happy Few, we Band of Brothers look like we could just pull off the most famous victory of the Little Guy Sticking It to the Man...then everyone wants a part of that. They want to be able to boast each year on Brexit's Day of their glorious battle against the French. (And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it, mostly the French.) They want to stand a tip-toe when Brexit Day is named. Strip their sleeves and show their scars, And say "These wounds I had on Brexit day." Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember, with advantages, what feats he did that day. For he that votes for Brexit with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England then a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That voted with us upon Brexit's day.
Like
Tories winning in May 2015?...
I didn't go anywhere near pbCOM for months after May 2015. What do you think I am? Some kind of perverted masochist? For our Brexiters here, the added bonus of a Brexit win will be to push the likes of me and Roger into some kind of self imposed exile for some time.
On the other hand if remain win- I'll be on here, the second after the result, gloating, pissing on all your Brexit parades, deifying Cameron, and most of all laughing at your misery. I can almost taste the sweetness of it all. Almost.
You need to get a life, if you are older than sixteen you are a real saddo
You really do not know how much satisfaction it will give me if remain will win, even by one vote. Better than the Portillo moment. Better than when Thatcher resigned. Not quite as good mind as when City beat QPR or Gillingham, but close.
The big problem specifically for supermarkets is all the loose items which you can't easily tag.
and that fast read RFID tags with enough range to be read from outside the trolley are still tens of pence each and the shops don't want to take the hit on their profits and punters are likely to look askance at a shop doubling the cost of a packet of gum because of the tag on it
I think that's the tricky part. Maybe you have to send your trolly through a faraday cage for it to only scan the items inside.
There are working prototypes, I was involve briefly in the software for one a few years ago. The problem is they want the punter to be able to walk through the payment area at a normal walking pace, which means the whole trolley will go through the scanner in a couple of seconds, during which time it has to read maybe 300 items in the trolley. Tags which let you read at that rate and from maybe a metre away are 30-50p each depending on the exact specification which makes it cost prohibitive at the moment. The steel casing of the reader seems to stop false reads from other nearby lanes.
Walmart have spent a fortune on RFID tagging etc, but as far as I know aren't anywhere near deploying this stuff in the real world. It is too costly, too error prone etc.
There are far fewer checkout workers now because of the automated checkouts which have replaced them with maybe 1 person to assist if needed. Robot factory assembly lines are now used for all but the most skilled tasks. I would agree new sectors will open up, with the most creative having the best advantage
I think you will find that there just as many workers in each supermarket. And supermarkets actually finding the automated checkouts are rather problematic for a number of reasons and actually aren't that efficient for the store or shopper.
There is a far better solution in existence, e.g. self scan in the lies of Waitrose, and again that isn't working out for them. And a few years ago the hope was just to RFID tag everything and then have readers automatically total up everything without the shopper having to do anything, but still no signs of that anywhere.
The problem is again, lots of very simple tasks for humans are actually rather problematic for computers. And paying somebody £7 / hr, is a lot cheaper than the required investment to develop the solutions.
And as for robot factory assembly it is true, although again your iPhone still required a company that employs a million people to make.
There are not, there are 6 automatic checkouts at my local Tesco and they have obviously reduced the number of staff who work at the checkout accordingly. Yes computers may not replace all roles but where companies can automate and save costs they will
Go check figures...there are just as many (if not more) people working for Tescos, Morrisons, etc as ever before. I didn't say people working at the checkout, I said working in the supermarkets (as that is the key argument, that computerisation etc won't actually mean all these people are out of jobs, instead they do different jobs).
Yup, the stats back you up. I worked in Leeds, and our of clients were a very major supermarket.
What HYUFD doesn't realise more and more stores are opening, as well as existing stores opening 24 hours a day, 6 days a week in England & Wales.
They are employing more and more staff, add in the likes of LIDL and ALDI expanding.
More people work in supermarkets than ever before, both in absolute numbers and headcount
Note to self....If Brexit win come June 23rd, under no circumstances venture onto this site. It would be a tortuous fate worse than death, a living hell of gloating nightmares. In fact I would rather......I can't think of anything sufficiently bad.
On topic, I think there is a greater risk for Remain if Leave are seen to get a polling lead.
A lot of people thought Leave stood no chance. We were mark'd to die. Everyone was against us. The political elite. Business, the Media, even the Luvvie Light Infantry chucked a few rocks. But then when we Few, we Happy Few, we Band of Brothers look like we could just pull off the most famous victory of the Little Guy Sticking It to the Man...then everyone wants a part of that. They want to be able to boast each year on Brexit's Day of their glorious battle against the French. (And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it, mostly the French.) They want to stand a tip-toe when Brexit Day is named. Strip their sleeves and show their scars, And say "These wounds I had on Brexit day." Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember, with advantages, what feats he did that day. For he that votes for Brexit with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England then a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That voted with us upon Brexit's day.
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
It doesn't specify what the agreement is but simply that it is an agreement and specifically that it should take into account "the framework for its future relationship with the Union".
It specifies that it is the agreement that takes over from the existing treaties when we leave.
If we negotiate a crap "interim" agreement, that's our agreement. We don't get a second shot
"The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement "
It doesn't specify what the agreement is but simply that it is an agreement and specifically that it should take into account "the framework for its future relationship with the Union".
It specifies that it is the agreement that takes over from the existing treaties when we leave.
If we negotiate a crap "interim" agreement, that's our agreement. We don't get a second shot
"The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement "
Don't be ready. The agreement is whatever both sides agree to regardless of ehat the treaties say.
I once negotiated an agreement between a French SIE and a high profile US company. We had 28 says to reach agreement or the lawyers automatically got involved. Took us 18 months and no one cared - or called the lawyers
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
I'm kind of expecting Remain to say that as Leave voters are clearly mad, they will all be sectioned on 22nd June - and so unable to vote....
Note to self....If Brexit win come June 23rd, under no circumstances venture onto this site. It would be a tortuous fate worse than death, a living hell of gloating nightmares. In fact I would rather......I can't think of anything sufficiently bad.
On topic, I think there is a greater risk for Remain if Leave are seen to get a polling lead.
A lot of people thought Leave stood no chance. We were mark'd to die. Everyone was against us. The political elite. Business, the Media, even the Luvvie Light Infantry chucked a few rocks. But then when we Few, we Happy Few, we Band of Brothers look like we could just pull off the most famous victory of the Little Guy Sticking It to the Man...then everyone wants a part of that. They want to be able to boast each year on Brexit's Day of their glorious battle against the French. (And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it, mostly the French.) They want to stand a tip-toe when Brexit Day is named. Strip their sleeves and show their scars, And say "These wounds I had on Brexit day." Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember, with advantages, what feats he did that day. For he that votes for Brexit with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England then a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That voted with us upon Brexit's day.
Like
Tories winning in May 2015?...
I didn't go anywhere near pbCOM for months after May 2015. What do you think I am? Some kind of perverted masochist? For our Brexiters here, the added bonus of a Brexit win will be to push the likes of me and Roger into some kind of self imposed exile for some time.
On the other hand if remain win- I'll be on here, the second after the result, gloating, pissing on all your Brexit parades, deifying Cameron, and most of all laughing at your misery. I can almost taste the sweetness of it all. Almost.
You need to get a life, if you are older than sixteen you are a real saddo
You really do not know how much satisfaction it will give me if remain will win, even by one vote. Better than the Portillo moment. Better than when Thatcher resigned. Not quite as good mind as when City beat QPR or Gillingham, but close.
Very odd, personally I care not a jot, it will be an establishment stitch up and those with shedloads will just continue as they are , the muppets will vote for continued servitude.
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
John McDonnell: Labour taking a close look at universal basic income
Shadow chancellor says the concept of an unconditional payment to all could prepare country for robotisation of the workforce
A universal basic income (UBI) is regarded by some on the left as a response to the robotisation of the workforce, which it is feared could replace lower-skilled jobs and exacerbate inequality.
I can't any problems with this at all...none at all...especially if we are still part of the EU. As for the "robotisation" of the work force, we already have it and and it is less likely to affect the low skilled, it will be middle skilled tasks where computers have made leap and bounds.
Computer AI can do lots of tasks that we currently deem skilled e.g. pretty good at translation, but we have hardly made any progress on enabling computers to "understand" simple tasks like cleaning and tidying, where things are not clear cut and require a lot of different understanding.
I would be more concerned if i was just a code monkey than a cleaner.
What about the automisation of supermarket checkouts, factory assembly lines etc? Few jobs are totally immune from the threat of AI though the more creative they are the less the threat. UBI is an interesting idea but not something I think is affordable or needed as yet
We already have automated checkouts, they aren't really making the process any more efficient and so still lots of supermarket jobs. We already have automated / robot factory assembly lines, but again there are tasks which are incredibly hard for computer / robots and we aren't much closer to solving them.
I don't buy this view that because of advantages in computers / robots / AI everybody will be out of job, rather jobs will change, just as they have over history. New sectors will open up. Who would have predicted 50 years the vast numbers of people we would require to work keeping the internet working.
AI / computer vision is something I know a lot about and we aren't anywhere near solving so many of things that humans do with ease. The AI we are seeing advances in at the moment is based upon theory that is actually 30 years old, and still have some significant limitations.
But think of how many wainwright and farrier jobs have been lost. Or, as Obama might say, how many bank tellers lost their jobs to ATMs. [For clarity, this is not intended to be serious]
Lol Farriers will be the last job to be replaced by robots
But there are far fewer farriers now than there were before the advent of the automobile.
Note to self....If Brexit win come June 23rd, under no circumstances venture onto this site. It would be a tortuous fate worse than death, a living hell of gloating nightmares. In fact I would rather......I can't think of anything sufficiently bad.
On topic, I think there is a greater risk for Remain if Leave are seen to get a polling lead.
A lot of people thought Leave stood no chance. We were mark'd to die. Everyone was against us. The political elite. Business, the Media, even the Luvvie Light Infantry chucked a few rocks. But then when we Few, we Happy Few, we Band of Brothers look like we could just pull off the most famous victory of the Little Guy Sticking It to the Man...then everyone wants a part of that. They want to be able to boast each year on Brexit's Day of their glorious battle against the French. (And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it, mostly the French.) They want to stand a tip-toe when Brexit Day is named. Strip their sleeves and show their scars, And say "These wounds I had on Brexit day." Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember, with advantages, what feats he did that day. For he that votes for Brexit with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England then a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That voted with us upon Brexit's day.
Like
Tories winning in May 2015?...
I didn't go anywhere near pbCOM for months after May 2015. What do you think I am? Some kind of perverted masochist? For our Brexiters here, the added bonus of a Brexit win will be to push the likes of me and Roger into some kind of self imposed exile for some time.
On the other hand if remain win- I'll be on here, the second after the result, gloating, pissing on all your Brexit parades, deifying Cameron, and most of all laughing at your misery. I can almost taste the sweetness of it all. Almost.
You need to get a life, if you are older than sixteen you are a real saddo
Malcolm sorry to rush out earlier.
You asked my view on the deal. Simply:
1) codified no ever closer union 2) no EZ/non-EZ discrimination 3) no banking union 4) not much on immigration 5) some fluff on competitiveness
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Peter- does that not make you at least reflect on voting leave? Or would you rather side with Farage? Even Gove is getting wet feet....his misspeak today speaks volumes about the inner doubts he has for leaving, and I'm not a psychologist.
I think Walmart tag at the pallet level, it was for goods inward... at least it was 15 years ago.
Backend I would think every major retailor does these days, but they were looking at tagging every item for store. They have been messing with this for 10 years and they still don't really have an idiot proof solution.
There are far fewer checkout workers now because of the automated checkouts which have replaced them with maybe 1 person to assist if needed. Robot factory assembly lines are now used for all but the most skilled tasks. I would agree new sectors will open up, with the most creative having the best advantage
I think you will find that there just as many workers in each supermarket. And supermarkets actually finding the automated checkouts are rather problematic for a number of reasons and actually aren't that efficient for the store or shopper.
There is a far better solution in existence, e.g. self scan in the lies of Waitrose, and again that isn't working out for them. And a few years ago the hope was just to RFID tag everything and then have readers automatically total up everything without the shopper having to do anything, but still no signs of that anywhere.
The problem is again, lots of very simple tasks for humans are actually rather problematic for computers. And paying somebody £7 / hr, is a lot cheaper than the required investment to develop the solutions.
And as for robot factory assembly it is true, although again your iPhone still required a company that employs a million people to make.
There are not, there are 6 automatic checkouts at my local Tesco and they have obviously reduced the number of staff who work at the checkout accordingly. Yes computers may not replace all roles but where companies can automate and save costs they will
Go check figures...there are just as many (if not more) people working for Tescos, Morrisons, etc as ever before. I didn't say people working at the checkout, I said working in the supermarkets (as that is the key argument, that computerisation etc won't actually mean all these people are out of jobs, instead they do different jobs).
Yup, the stats back you up. I worked in Leeds, and our of clients were a very major supermarket.
What HYUFD doesn't realise more and more stores are opening, as well as existing stores opening 24 hours a day, 6 days a week in England & Wales.
They are employing more and more staff, add in the likes of LIDL and ALDI expanding.
More people work in supermarkets than ever before, both in absolute numbers and headcount
Not least because the range of their merchandise and services offered continues to broaden inexorably to now include Pharmacies, Opticians, Garden Centres, Newsagents, Travel Agencies, Dry Cleaners, Phone Shops, Coffee Shops, Heel Bars, Insurance and Banking Services, etc, etc.
There are far fewer checkout workers now because of the automated checkouts which have replaced them with maybe 1 person to assist if needed. Robot factory assembly lines are now used for all but the most skilled tasks. I would agree new sectors will open up, with the most creative having the best advantage
I think you will find that there just as many workers in each supermarket. And supermarkets actually finding the automated checkouts are rather problematic for a number of reasons and actually aren't that efficient for the store or shopper.
There is a far better solution in existence, e.g. self scan in the lies of Waitrose, and again that isn't working out for them. And a few years ago the hope was just to RFID tag everything and then have readers automatically total up everything without the shopper having to do anything, but still no signs of that anywhere.
The problem is again, lots of very simple tasks for humans are actually rather problematic for computers. And paying somebody £7 / hr, is a lot cheaper than the required investment to develop the solutions.
And as for robot factory assembly it is true, although again your iPhone still required a company that employs a million people to make.
There are not, there are 6 automatic checkouts at my local Tesco and they have obviously reduced the number of staff who work at the checkout accordingly. Yes computers may not replace all roles but where companies can automate and save costs they will
Go check figures...there are just as many (if not more) people working for Tescos, Morrisons, etc as ever before. I didn't say people working at the checkout, I said working in the supermarkets (as that is the key argument, that computerisation etc won't actually mean all these people are out of jobs, instead they do different jobs).
The introduction of the automated checkout till has not resulted in 100,000s of people who work in supermarkets being made redundant.
With the advent of the $15 an hour minimum wage beginning to look like it may actually happen, fast food outlets here are beginning to install self-service booths with a view to reducing staffing costs.
Walmart - ever the high tech leader - is developing plans to use drones for inventory counting in warehouses, reducing both the time needed for the exercise and staff costs.
Many people avoid self-checkouts (which require 1 employee for 4 or 6 checkouts) so at peak times the regular checkouts are very busy.
Mr. Putney, reminds me of a QI episode which claimed we make our best decisions when angry.
On a more serious note, emotions will play a role on both sides. Personally, I dislike an emotional case for or against something and prefer a strictly rational approach. The £4,300 fiction has not persuaded me of the perils of leaving. So much has been overblown (on both sides) I've found very little to actually be worthy of attention.
Fortunately, we have a race next weekend, and the weekend right after that.
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Well, I guess that makes him a remainer then?
It makes him another interfering American. Perhaps we should all say a lot more about who they should vote for in their election, I am sure it will be appreciated.
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Peter- does that not make you at least reflect on voting leave? Or would you rather side with Farage? Even Gove is getting wet feet....his misspeak today speaks volumes about the inner doubts he has for leaving, and I'm not a psychologist.
Inner doubts?
Confirmation they are operating on a wing and a prayer more like.
Note to self....If Brexit win come June 23rd, under no circumstances venture onto this site. It would be a tortuous fate worse than death, a living hell of gloating nightmares. In fact I would rather......I can't think of anything sufficiently bad.
On topic, I think there is a greater risk for Remain if Leave are seen to get a polling lead.
A lot of people thought Leave stood no chance. We were mark'd to die. Everyone was against us. The political elite. Business, the Media, even the Luvvie Light Infantry chucked a few rocks. But then when we Few, we Happy Few, we Band of Brothers look like we could just pull off the most famous victory of the Little Guy Sticking It to the Man...then everyone wants a part of that. They want to be able to boast each year on Brexit's Day of their glorious battle against the French. (And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it, mostly the French.) They want to stand a tip-toe when Brexit Day is named. Strip their sleeves and show their scars, And say "These wounds I had on Brexit day." Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember, with advantages, what feats he did that day. For he that votes for Brexit with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England then a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That voted with us upon Brexit's day.
Like
Tories winning in May 2015?...
I didn't go anywhere near pbCOM for months after May 2015. What do you think I am? Some kind of perverted masochist? For our Brexiters here, the added bonus of a Brexit win will be to push the likes of me and Roger into some kind of self imposed exile for some time.
On the other hand if remain win- I'll be on here, the second after the result, gloating, pissing on all your Brexit parades, deifying Cameron, and most of all laughing at your misery. I can almost taste the sweetness of it all. Almost.
You need to get a life, if you are older than sixteen you are a real saddo
Malcolm sorry to rush out earlier.
You asked my view on the deal. Simply:
1) codified no ever closer union 2) no EZ/non-EZ discrimination 3) no banking union 4) not much on immigration 5) some fluff on competitiveness
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Well, I guess that makes him a remainer then?
It makes him another interfering American. Perhaps we should all say a lot more about who they should vote for in their election, I am sure it will be appreciated.
Don't be ready. The agreement is whatever both sides agree to regardless of ehat the treaties say.
I once negotiated an agreement between a French SIE and a high profile US company. We had 28 says to reach agreement or the lawyers automatically got involved. Took us 18 months and no one cared - or called the lawyers
I once negotiated an agreement between a French SIE and a high profile US company. We had 28 says to reach agreement or the lawyers automatically got involved. Took us 18 months and no one cared - or called the lawyers
Did you negotiate an interim agreement that was in force during your 18 months?
That is what the Brexiteers were suggesting earlier. Not that the timing would change, but that the existing treaties would be replaced by a new agreement, that would be replaced by another agreement when they figured out what they wanted.
I think we can all agree that unless the 'deal' is codified in a treaty, then it isn't worth the paper it's written on. Should we vote Remain, and another treaty pass without the specifics of the 'deal' in it, I think that would be sufficient reason for another referendum.
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Mr. Putney, reminds me of a QI episode which claimed we make our best decisions when angry.
On a more serious note, emotions will play a role on both sides. Personally, I dislike an emotional case for or against something and prefer a strictly rational approach. The £4,300 fiction has not persuaded me of the perils of leaving. So much has been overblown (on both sides) I've found very little to actually be worthy of attention.
Fortunately, we have a race next weekend, and the weekend right after that.
I too prefer a rational approach, in ordinary circumstances. In this case, however, with so much dis-information flying around on both sides, gut instinct seems the rational way to go.
Note to self....If Brexit win come June 23rd, under no circumstances venture onto this site. It would be a tortuous fate worse than death, a living hell of gloating nightmares. In fact I would rather......I can't think of anything sufficiently bad.
On topic, I think there is a greater risk for Remain if Leave are seen to get a polling lead.
A lot of people thought Leave stood no chance. We were mark'd to die. Everyone was against us. The political elite. Business, the Media, even the Luvvie Light Infantry chucked a few rocks. But then when we Few, we Happy Few, we Band of Brothers look like we could just pull off the most famous victory of the Little Guy Sticking Itch.) They want to stand a tip-toe when Brexit Day is named. Strip their sleeves and show their scars, And say "These wounds I had on Brexit day." Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember, with advantages, what feats he did that day. For he that votes for Brexit with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England then a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That voted with us upon Brexit's day.
Like
Tories winning in May 2015?...
I didn't go anywhere near pbCOM for months after May 2015. What do you think I am? Some kind of perverted masochist? For our Brexiters here, the added bonus of a Brexit win will be to push the likes of me and Roger into some kind of self imposed exile for some time.
On the other hand if remain win- I'll be on here, the second after the result, gloating, pissing on all your Brexit parades, deifying Cameron, and most of all laughing at your misery. I can almost taste the sweetness of it all. Almost.
You need to get a life, if you are older than sixteen you are a real saddo
Malcolm sorry to rush out earlier.
You asked my view on the deal. Simply:
1) codified no ever closer union 2) no EZ/non-EZ discrimination 3) no banking union 4) not much on immigration 5) some fluff on competitiveness
Yes I mentioned that earlier and have said it several times also before on here. If, a la Michael "2020" Gove, you think the ECJ will strike down a deal agreed by 28 heads of state (and then we'd say: ok then) it's Leave all day long for you. Plus a supply of tinfoil hats.
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Well, I guess that makes him a remainer then?
It makes him another interfering American. Perhaps we should all say a lot more about who they should vote for in their election, I am sure it will be appreciated.
Says the guy living 6,000 miles away.
Who is a registered voter and British citizen with most of my family living in the country... somehow I don't get the impression that Mr Kahneman is either.
Yes I mentioned that earlier and have said it several times also before on here. If, a la Michael "2020" Gove, you think the ECJ will strike down a deal agreed by 28 heads of state (and then we'd say: ok then) it's Leave all day long for you. Plus a supply of tinfoil hats.
What on earth is going on - "Figures from the European Union statistics office reveal more than 60,000 people in the UK suffered an early death in 2013. The findings show Britain performs worse than almost every other nation in Western Europe, including former Soviet states such as Slovenia." Perhaps we are seeing late diagnosis in years 2008 - 2009, and this is a lagging indicator.
Yes I mentioned that earlier and have said it several times also before on here. If, a la Michael "2020" Gove, you think the ECJ will strike down a deal agreed by 28 heads of state (and then we'd say: ok then) it's Leave all day long for you. Plus a supply of tinfoil hats.
Surely this is Cameron's 'Vow' moment. He can say, "If the ECJ strike down this deal after the British people have approved our continued membership on that basis, I will invoke Article 50 to take us out of the EU."
Yes I mentioned that earlier and have said it several times also before on here. If, a la Michael "2020" Gove, you think the ECJ will strike down a deal agreed by 28 heads of state (and then we'd say: ok then) it's Leave all day long for you. Plus a supply of tinfoil hats.
So you think that Sir Konrad Schiemann, former judge of the ECJ needs a tinfoil hat when commenting on the likely actions of the ECJ ? It's a view I suppose.
Miss JGP, it's the basics that might be prefer we Leave. Integration into an EU superstate is a bad thing, lack of accountability is a bad thing, past deceit about what we were joining was a bad thing.
The ability to sack our law makers, to make our own laws instead of them being imposed upon us, and to be responsible for our own governance are good things.
Mr. 1983, and others: there's a huge amount of politics in psychology. Some of it is hard science (essentially, biology), and it goes all the way to sociology (which blames society for everything). The influence of politics looms large, though.
That's why feminist psychology began, because middle class white men were seen as the norm. But then black feminist psychology began, because feminist psychology considered white middle class women the norm.
Marxism features in one theory explaining racism (I think it's meant to be displaced anger at one's bosses/parents towards those more vulnerable [minorities]). It even featured in views of how the brain worked (during the Cold War) when Soviet scientists claimed it was the same throughout and capitalist countries had psychologists who claimed each part was compartmentalised to specialise (the truth is somewhere in between).
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Well, I guess that makes him a remainer then?
It makes him another interfering American. Perhaps we should all say a lot more about who they should vote for in their election, I am sure it will be appreciated.
Says the guy living 6,000 miles away.
Who is a registered voter and British citizen with most of my family living in the country... somehow I don't get the impression that Mr Kahneman is either.
I lived in Asia also a while ago. For me after a while it engendered a longing for the Today programme, land of hope and glory, trooping the colour, and old maids bicycling to holy communion, etc.
But mainly it was of course an idealised version of the UK, rather than the one that the people there lived from day to day.
The supermarket checkout is actually quite a good example of where we haven't got much closer to an automated solution to the problem. There are so many wrinkles the problem in real life setting and many of which computers are currently very bad at / find very hard to do efficiency, where as a human finds it trivial.
Silly example, alcohol sale, a human is pretty damn good at looking at somebody and instantly being able to estimate they are definitely over 25, probably over 21, etc. Computers find this task very very difficult.
It's not that easy! A colleague on today's canvass had this exchange:
Girl answering door: Yes? Colleague (makes rapid assessment, decides age 15): Is your mother in? Girl: she doesn't live here. Colleague: (confused look) Girl: If it's about the referendum you probably want me...I'm 22...
I think we can all agree that unless the 'deal' is codified in a treaty, then it isn't worth the paper it's written on. Should we vote Remain, and another treaty pass without the specifics of the 'deal' in it, I think that would be sufficient reason for another referendum.
Yes.
I just can't see the scenario whereby the ECJ rips up the deal (something that every expert apart from "2020" said would be ludicrous) and we say: oh, ok then.
I also, btw, think that it would be ludicrous for the ECJ to strike down a deal just agreed by all EU Heads of State.
The supermarket checkout is actually quite a good example of where we haven't got much closer to an automated solution to the problem. There are so many wrinkles the problem in real life setting and many of which computers are currently very bad at / find very hard to do efficiency, where as a human finds it trivial.
Silly example, alcohol sale, a human is pretty damn good at looking at somebody and instantly being able to estimate they are definitely over 25, probably over 21, etc. Computers find this task very very difficult.
It's not that easy! A colleague on today's canvass had this exchange:
Girl answering door: Yes? Colleague (makes rapid assessment, decides age 15): Is your mother in? Girl: she doesn't live here. Colleague: (confused look) Girl: If it's about the referendum you probably want me...I'm 22...
Sure, but generally humans are fairly good at looking at somebody & with reasonable accuracy say above / below...computer are terrible at this.
Yes I mentioned that earlier and have said it several times also before on here. If, a la Michael "2020" Gove, you think the ECJ will strike down a deal agreed by 28 heads of state (and then we'd say: ok then) it's Leave all day long for you. Plus a supply of tinfoil hats.
It's been done before - so why not again?
Precisely.
The Denmark rejected Maastricht the Council of Europe ("heads of state") made a number of promises to Denmark concerning citizenship, border control and even the names it's citizens are allowed to use. This deal was totally ignored by the ECJ who made it plain that it was only interested in ratified treaties. It is an exactly comparable situation to our own.
(The ECJ has also thrown out a resolution by the UN Security Council on a similar basis)
Talk about from hero to zero. On Friday night Gove was being proclaimed on here as the greatest statesman since Churchill. Now his verbal 'tangle' has plunged Leave into yet more chaos and yet more doubt. Leave need to clarify their intentions immediately. The whole Leave thing is starting to look like a botched job, less about the national interest and more about the required gamesmanship for promotion within the Tory party.
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Well, I guess that makes him a remainer then?
It makes him another interfering American. Perhaps we should all say a lot more about who they should vote for in their election, I am sure it will be appreciated.
Says the guy living 6,000 miles away.
Who is a registered voter and British citizen with most of my family living in the country... somehow I don't get the impression that Mr Kahneman is either.
I lived in Asia also a while ago. For me after a while it engendered a longing for the Today programme, land of hope and glory, trooping the colour, and old maids bicycling to holy communion, etc.
But mainly it was of course an idealised version of the UK, rather than the one that the people there lived from day to day.
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Well, I guess that makes him a remainer then?
It makes him another interfering American. Perhaps we should all say a lot more about who they should vote for in their election, I am sure it will be appreciated.
Says the guy living 6,000 miles away.
Who is a registered voter and British citizen with most of my family living in the country... somehow I don't get the impression that Mr Kahneman is either.
I lived in Asia also a while ago. For me after a while it engendered a longing for the Today programme, land of hope and glory, trooping the colour, and old maids bicycling to holy communion, etc.
But mainly it was of course an idealised version of the UK, rather than the one that the people there lived from day to day.
Bugger.. I've been away too long.
I might have stayed longer, but it was in the days before you could get the Today programme on t'internet.
On topic, I think there is a greater risk for Remain if Leave are seen to get a polling lead.
A lot of people thought Leave stood no chance. We were mark'd to die. Everyone was against us. The political elite. Business, the Media, even the Luvvie Light Infantry chucked a few rocks. But then when we Few, we Happy Few, we Band of Brothers look like we could just pull off the most famous victory of the Little Guy Sticking It to the Man...then everyone wants a part of that. They want to be able to boast each year on Brexit's Day of their glorious battle against the French. (And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it, mostly the French.) They want to stand a tip-toe when Brexit Day is named. Strip their sleeves and show their scars, And say "These wounds I had on Brexit day." Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember, with advantages, what feats he did that day. For he that votes for Brexit with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England then a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That voted with us upon Brexit's day.
Post of the day.
Whether for good or ill June 23rd will go down as one of the most Significant in our history if we vote out
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Well, I guess that makes him a remainer then?
Someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Yes I mentioned that earlier and have said it several times also before on here. If, a la Michael "2020" Gove, you think the ECJ will strike down a deal agreed by 28 heads of state (and then we'd say: ok then) it's Leave all day long for you. Plus a supply of tinfoil hats.
It's been done before - so why not again?
Precisely.
The Denmark rejected Maastricht the Council of Europe ("heads of state") made a number of promises to Denmark concerning citizenship, border control and even the names it's citizens are allowed to use. This deal was totally ignored by the ECJ who made it plain that it was only interested in ratified treaties. It is an exactly comparable situation to our own.
(The ECJ has also thrown out a resolution by the UN Security Council on a similar basis)
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Well, I guess that makes him a remainer then?
It makes him another interfering American. Perhaps we should all say a lot more about who they should vote for in their election, I am sure it will be appreciated.
Says the guy living 6,000 miles away.
Who is a registered voter and British citizen with most of my family living in the country... somehow I don't get the impression that Mr Kahneman is either.
I lived in Asia also a while ago. For me after a while it engendered a longing for the Today programme, land of hope and glory, trooping the colour, and old maids bicycling to holy communion, etc.
But mainly it was of course an idealised version of the UK, rather than the one that the people there lived from day to day.
Since my wife and my two sons live in the UK, I dont have that problem, but nice try.
There are far fewer checkout workers now because of the automated checkouts which have replaced them with maybe 1 person to assist if needed. Robot factory assembly lines are now used for all but the most skilled tasks. I would agree new sectors will open up, with the most creative having the best advantage
I think you will find that there just as many workers in each supermarket. And supermarkets actually finding the automated checkouts are rather problematic for a number of reasons and actually aren't that efficient for the store or shopper.
There is a far better solution in existence, e.g. self scan in the lies of Waitrose, and again that isn't working out for them. And a few years ago the hope was just to RFID tag everything and then have readers automatically total up everything without the shopper having to do anything, but still no signs of that anywhere.
The problem is again, lots of very simple tasks for humans are actually rather problematic for computers. And paying somebody £7 / hr, is a lot cheaper than the required investment to develop the solutions.
And as for robot factory assembly it is true, although again your iPhone still required a company that employs a million people to make.
There are not, there are 6 automatic checkouts at my local Tesco and they have obviously reduced the number of staff who work at the checkout accordingly. Yes computers may not replace all roles but where companies can automate and save costs they will
Go check figures...there are just as many (if not more) people working for Tescos, Morrisons, etc as ever before. I didn't say people working at the checkout, I said working in the supermarkets (as that is the key argument, that computerisation etc won't actually mean all these people are out of jobs, instead they do different jobs).
The introduction of the automated checkout till has not resulted in 100,000s of people who work in supermarkets being made redundant.
You only have 1 person supervising 6 automated checkouts, so that is 5 jobs lost as a result
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Well, I guess that makes him a remainer then?
It makes him another interfering American. Perhaps we should all say a lot more about who they should vote for in their election, I am sure it will be appreciated.
Says the guy living 6,000 miles away.
Who is a registered voter and British citizen with most of my family living in the country... somehow I don't get the impression that Mr Kahneman is either.
I lived in Asia also a while ago. For me after a while it engendered a longing for the Today programme, land of hope and glory, trooping the colour, and old maids bicycling to holy communion, etc.
But mainly it was of course an idealised version of the UK, rather than the one that the people there lived from day to day.
Bugger.. I've been away too long.
I might have stayed longer, but it was in the days before you could get the Today programme on t'internet.
The tax environment was great, that said.
I haven't yet got to the stage where I program my computer to play a delayed version of the Today program as an alarm.... yet.
Note to self....If Brexit win come June 23rd, under no circumstances venture onto this site. It would be a tortuous fate worse than death, a living hell of gloating nightmares. In fact I would rather......I can't think of anything sufficiently bad.
I didn't go anywhere near pbCOM for months after May 2015. What do you think I am? Some kind of perverted masochist? For our Brexiters here, the added bonus of a Brexit win will be to push the likes of me and Roger into some kind of self imposed exile for some time.
On the other hand if remain win- I'll be on here, the second after the result, gloating, pissing on all your Brexit parades, deifying Cameron, and most of all laughing at your misery. I can almost taste the sweetness of it all. Almost.
You need to get a life, if you are older than sixteen you are a real saddo
Malcolm sorry to rush out earlier.
You asked my view on the deal. Simply:
1) codified no ever closer union 2) no EZ/non-EZ discrimination 3) no banking union 4) not much on immigration 5) some fluff on competitiveness
Yes I mentioned that earlier and have said it several times also before on here. If, a la Michael "2020" Gove, you think the ECJ will strike down a deal agreed by 28 heads of state (and then we'd say: ok then) it's Leave all day long for you. Plus a supply of tinfoil hats.
I had heard that they had done exactly that with Denmark's ability to restrict Germans buying holiday homes in Denmark which is actually written in a treaty.
There are far fewer checkout workers now because of the automated checkouts which have replaced them with maybe 1 person to assist if needed. Robot factory assembly lines are now used for all but the most skilled tasks. I would agree new sectors will open up, with the most creative having the best advantage
I think you will find that there just as many workers in each supermarket. And supermarkets actually finding the automated checkouts are rather problematic for a number of reasons and actually aren't that efficient for the store or shopper.
There is a far better solution in existence, e.g. self scan in the lies of Waitrose, and again that isn't working out for them. And a few years ago the hope was just to RFID tag everything and then have readers automatically total up everything without the shopper having to do anything, but still no signs of that anywhere.
The problem is again, lots of very simple tasks for humans are actually rather problematic for computers. And paying somebody £7 / hr, is a lot cheaper than the required investment to develop the solutions.
And as for robot factory assembly it is true, although again your iPhone still required a company that employs a million people to make.
There are not, there are 6 automatic checkouts at my local Tesco and they have obviously reduced the number of staff who work at the checkout accordingly. Yes computers may not replace all roles but where companies can automate and save costs they will
Go check figures...there are just as many (if not more) people working for Tescos, Morrisons, etc as ever before. I didn't say people working at the checkout, I said working in the supermarkets (as that is the key argument, that computerisation etc won't actually mean all these people are out of jobs, instead they do different jobs).
The introduction of the automated checkout till has not resulted in 100,000s of people who work in supermarkets being made redundant.
You only have 1 person supervising 6 automated checkouts, so that is 5 jobs lost as a result
There are far fewer checkout workers now because of the automated checkouts which have replaced them with maybe 1 person to assist if needed. Robot factory assembly lines are now used for all but the most skilled tasks. I would agree new sectors will open up, with the most creative having the best advantage
I think you will find that there just as many workers in each supermarket. And supermarkets actually finding the automated checkouts are rather problematic for a number of reasons and actually aren't that efficient for the store or shopper.
There is a far better solution in existence, e.g. self scan in the lies of Waitrose, and again that isn't working out for them. And a few years ago the hope was just to RFID tag everything and then have readers automatically total up everything without the shopper having to do anything, but still no signs of that anywhere.
The problem is again, lots of very simple tasks for humans are actually rather problematic for computers. And paying somebody £7 / hr, is a lot cheaper than the required investment to develop the solutions.
And as for robot factory assembly it is true, although again your iPhone still required a company that employs a million people to make.
There are not, there are 6 automatic checkouts at my local Tesco and they have obviously reduced the number of staff who work at the checkout accordingly. Yes computers may not replace all roles but where companies can automate and save costs they will
Go check figures...there are just as many (if not more) people working for Tescos, Morrisons, etc as ever before. I didn't say people working at the checkout, I said working in the supermarkets (as that is the key argument, that computerisation etc won't actually mean all these people are out of jobs, instead they do different jobs).
The introduction of the automated checkout till has not resulted in 100,000s of people who work in supermarkets being made redundant.
You only have 1 person supervising 6 automated checkouts, so that is 5 jobs lost as a result
As I asked before, someone must have surely done a study on this.
Yes I mentioned that earlier and have said it several times also before on here. If, a la Michael "2020" Gove, you think the ECJ will strike down a deal agreed by 28 heads of state (and then we'd say: ok then) it's Leave all day long for you. Plus a supply of tinfoil hats.
It's been done before - so why not again?
Precisely.
The Denmark rejected Maastricht the Council of Europe ("heads of state") made a number of promises to Denmark concerning citizenship, border control and even the names it's citizens are allowed to use. This deal was totally ignored by the ECJ who made it plain that it was only interested in ratified treaties. It is an exactly comparable situation to our own.
(The ECJ has also thrown out a resolution by the UN Security Council on a similar basis)
There are far fewer checkout workers now because of the automated checkouts which have replaced them with maybe 1 person to assist if needed. Robot factory assembly lines are now used for all but the most skilled tasks. I would agree new sectors will open up, with the most creative having the best advantage
I think you will find that there just as many workers in each supermarket. And supermarkets actually finding the automated checkouts are rather problematic for a number of reasons and actually aren't that efficient for the store or shopper.
There is a far better solution in existence, e.g. self scan in the lies of Waitrose, and again that isn't working out for them. And a few years ago the hope was just to RFID tag everything and then have readers automatically total up everything without the shopper having to do anything, but still no signs of that anywhere.
The problem is again, lots of very simple tasks for humans are actually rather problematic for computers. And paying somebody £7 / hr, is a lot cheaper than the required investment to develop the solutions.
And as for robot factory assembly it is true, although again your iPhone still required a company that employs a million people to make.
There are not, there are 6 automatic checkouts at my local Tesco and they have obviously reduced the number of staff who work at the checkout accordingly. Yes computers may not replace all roles but where companies can automate and save costs they will
Go check figures...there are just as many (if not more) people working for Tescos, Morrisons, etc as ever before. I didn't say people working at the checkout, I said working in the supermarkets (as that is the key argument, that computerisation etc won't actually mean all these people are out of jobs, instead they do different jobs).
Yup, the stats back you up. I worked in Leeds, and our of clients were a very major supermarket.
What HYUFD doesn't realise more and more stores are opening, as well as existing stores opening 24 hours a day, 6 days a week in England & Wales.
They are employing more and more staff, add in the likes of LIDL and ALDI expanding.
More people work in supermarkets than ever before, both in absolute numbers and headcount
Yes there are more stores opening up but most of the smaller stores, Tesco Express etc are mainly filled with automated checkouts with only 1 or two staff at the till
Note to self....If Brexit win come June 23rd, under no circumstances venture onto this site. It would be a tortuous fate worse than death, a living hell of gloating nightmares. In fact I would rather......I can't think of anything sufficiently bad.
On topic, I think there is a greater risk for Remain if Leave are seen to get a polling lead.
A lot of people thought Leave stood no chance. We were mark'd to die. Everyone was against us. The political elite. Business, the Media, even the Luvvie Light Infantry chucked a few rocks. But then when we Few, we Happy Few, we Band of Brothers look like we could just pull off the most famous victory of the Little Guy Sticking It to the Man...then everyone wants a part of that. They want to be able to boast each year on Brexit's Day of their glorious battle against the French. (And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it, mostly the French.) They want to stand a tip-toe when Brexit Day is named. Strip their sleeves and show their scars, And say "These wounds I had on Brexit day." Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot, but he'll remember, with advantages, what feats he did that day. For he that votes for Brexit with me shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile, this day shall gentle his condition; And gentlemen in England then a-bed shall think themselves accurs'd they did not vote, And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks That voted with us upon Brexit's day.
Like
Tories winning in May 2015?...
I didn't go anywhere near pbCOM for months after May 2015. What do you think I am? Some kind of perverted masochist? For our Brexiters here, the added bonus of a Brexit win will be to push the likes of me and Roger into some kind of self imposed exile for some time.
On the other hand if remain win- I'll be on here, the second after the result, gloating, pissing on all your Brexit parades, deifying Cameron, and most of all laughing at your misery. I can almost taste the sweetness of it all. Almost.
You need to get a life, if you are older than sixteen you are a real saddo
Malcolm sorry to rush out earlier.
You asked my view on the deal. Simply:
1) codified no ever closer union 2) no EZ/non-EZ discrimination 3) no banking union 4) not much on immigration 5) some fluff on competitiveness
1)-3) pretty important IMO
Thanks Topping, my personal dislike of Cameron as a PR fluff piece can colour my views. He is so shallow it is unbelievable.
Yes I mentioned that earlier and have said it several times also before on here. If, a la Michael "2020" Gove, you think the ECJ will strike down a deal agreed by 28 heads of state (and then we'd say: ok then) it's Leave all day long for you. Plus a supply of tinfoil hats.
Surely this is Cameron's 'Vow' moment. He can say, "If the ECJ strike down this deal after the British people have approved our continued membership on that basis, I will invoke Article 50 to take us out of the EU."
Firstly he wouldn't do that because people don't care about his ridiculous denegotiation to make its full implementation worth voting for - it would actually draw unnecessary attention to it. Secondly he wouldn't do it because why would he make a pledge he would be forced to break? Of course he wouldn't take us out if they didn't honour the deal.
Yes I mentioned that earlier and have said it several times also before on here. If, a la Michael "2020" Gove, you think the ECJ will strike down a deal agreed by 28 heads of state (and then we'd say: ok then) it's Leave all day long for you. Plus a supply of tinfoil hats.
Surely this is Cameron's 'Vow' moment. He can say, "If the ECJ strike down this deal after the British people have approved our continued membership on that basis, I will invoke Article 50 to take us out of the EU."
Would you believe him if he said that? I'm not sure I would and besides what about the next PM?
There are far fewer checkout workers now because of the automated checkouts which have replaced them with maybe 1 person to assist if needed. Robot factory assembly lines are now used for all but the most skilled tasks. I would agree new sectors will open up, with the most creative having the best advantage
I think you will find that there just as many workers in each supermarket. And supermarkets actually finding the automated checkouts are rather problematic for a number of reasons and actually aren't that efficient for the store or shopper.
There is a far better solution in existence, e.g. self scan in the lies of Waitrose, and again that isn't working out for them. And a few years ago the hope was just to RFID tag everything and then have readers automatically total up everything without the shopper having to do anything, but still no signs of that anywhere.
The problem is again, lots of very simple tasks for humans are actually rather problematic for computers. And paying somebody £7 / hr, is a lot cheaper than the required investment to develop the solutions.
And as for robot factory assembly it is true, although again your iPhone still required a company that employs a million people to make.
There are not, there are 6 automatic checkouts at my local Tesco and they have obviously reduced the number of staff who work at the checkout accordingly. Yes computers may not replace all roles but where companies can automate and save costs they will
Go check figures...there are just as many (if not more) people working for Tescos, Morrisons, etc as ever before. I didn't say people working at the checkout, I said working in the supermarkets (as that is the key argument, that computerisation etc won't actually mean all these people are out of jobs, instead they do different jobs).
The introduction of the automated checkout till has not resulted in 100,000s of people who work in supermarkets being made redundant.
You only have 1 person supervising 6 automated checkouts, so that is 5 jobs lost as a result
As I asked before, someone must have surely done a study on this.
They have, I read one, but can't find it this second. Cliffs was not really that great.
Mr. Putney, reminds me of a QI episode which claimed we make our best decisions when angry.
QI genuinely thinks Cruithne is a moon of Earth, and thinks the Maths/Physics graduate Dara O'Briain should be mocked on science by the university dropout Stephen Fry, a man so incapable of understanding science concepts "The Register" has an ongoing series pointing out his errors...
Yes I mentioned that earlier and have said it several times also before on here. If, a la Michael "2020" Gove, you think the ECJ will strike down a deal agreed by 28 heads of state (and then we'd say: ok then) it's Leave all day long for you. Plus a supply of tinfoil hats.
It's been done before - so why not again?
Precisely.
The Denmark rejected Maastricht the Council of Europe ("heads of state") made a number of promises to Denmark concerning citizenship, border control and even the names it's citizens are allowed to use. This deal was totally ignored by the ECJ who made it plain that it was only interested in ratified treaties. It is an exactly comparable situation to our own.
(The ECJ has also thrown out a resolution by the UN Security Council on a similar basis)
"However, rather than allowing noncompliance of the resolutions, the UNSC might consider introducing necessary improvements, thereby avoiding undermining the authority and effectiveness of the anti-terrorist sanctions regime.[27]"
The ECJ basically told the UNSC to go and try again. Sounds a lot like a European institution to me!
There are far fewer checkout workers now because of the automated checkouts which have replaced them with maybe 1 person to assist if needed. Robot factory assembly lines are now used for all but the most skilled tasks. I would agree new sectors will open up, with the most creative having the best advantage
I think you will find that there just as many workers in each supermarket. And supermarkets actually finding the automated checkouts are rather problematic for a number of reasons and actually aren't that efficient for the store or shopper.
There is a far better solution in existence, e.g. self scan in the lies of Waitrose, and again that isn't working out for them. And a few years ago the hope was just to RFID tag everything and then have readers automatically total up everything without the shopper having to do anything, but still no signs of that anywhere.
The problem is again, lots of very simple tasks for humans are actually rather problematic for computers. And paying somebody £7 / hr, is a lot cheaper than the required investment to develop the solutions.
And as for robot factory assembly it is true, although again your iPhone still required a company that employs a million people to make.
There are not, there are 6 automatic checkouts at my local Tesco and they have obviously reduced the number of staff who work at the checkout accordingly. Yes computers may not replace all roles but where companies can automate and save costs they will
Go check figures...there are just as many (if not more) people working for Tescos, Morrisons, etc as ever before. I didn't say people working at the checkout, I said working in the supermarkets (as that is the key argument, that computerisation etc won't actually mean all these people are out of jobs, instead they do different jobs).
Yup, the stats back you up. I worked in Leeds, and our of clients were a very major supermarket.
What HYUFD doesn't realise more and more stores are opening, as well as existing stores opening 24 hours a day, 6 days a week in England & Wales.
They are employing more and more staff, add in the likes of LIDL and ALDI expanding.
More people work in supermarkets than ever before, both in absolute numbers and headcount
Yes there are more stores opening up but most of the smaller stores, Tesco Express etc are mainly filled with automated checkouts with only 1 or two staff at the till
There are far fewer checkout workers now because of the automated checkouts which have replaced them with maybe 1 person to assist if needed. Robot factory assembly lines are now used for all but the most skilled tasks. I would agree new sectors will open up, with the most creative having the best advantage
I think you will find that there just as many workers in each supermarket. And supermarkets actually finding the automated checkouts are rather problematic for a number of reasons and actually aren't that efficient for the store or shopper.
There is a far better solution in existence, e.g. self scan in the lies of Waitrose, and again that isn't working out for them. And a few years ago the hope was just to RFID tag everything and then have readers automatically total up everything without the shopper having to do anything, but still no signs of that anywhere.
The problem is again, lots of very simple tasks for humans are actually rather problematic for computers. And paying somebody £7 / hr, is a lot cheaper than the required investment to develop the solutions.
And as for robot factory assembly it is true, although again your iPhone still required a company that employs a million people to make.
There are not, there are 6 automatic checkouts at my local Tesco and they have obviously reduced the number of staff who work at the checkout accordingly. Yes computers may not replace all roles but where companies can automate and save costs they will
Go check figures...there are just as many (if not more) people working for Tescos, Morrisons, etc as ever before. I didn't say people working at the checkout, I said working in the supermarkets (as that is the key argument, that computerisation etc won't actually mean all these people are out of jobs, instead they do different jobs).
Yup, the stats back you up. I worked in Leeds, and our of clients were a very major supermarket.
What HYUFD doesn't realise more and more stores are opening, as well as existing stores opening 24 hours a day, 6 days a week in England & Wales.
They are employing more and more staff, add in the likes of LIDL and ALDI expanding.
More people work in supermarkets than ever before, both in absolute numbers and headcount
Yes there are more stores opening up but most of the smaller stores, Tesco Express etc are mainly filled with automated checkouts with only 1 or two staff at the till
More people work for tescos etc than ever before. That is the fact. Automated tills are not putting people out of work, they are doing different jobs etc.
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Well, I guess that makes him a remainer then?
It makes him another interfering American. Perhaps we should all say a lot more about who they should vote for in their election, I am sure it will be appreciated.
Says the guy living 6,000 miles away.
Who is a registered voter and British citizen with most of my family living in the country... somehow I don't get the impression that Mr Kahneman is either.
I lived in Asia also a while ago. For me after a while it engendered a longing for the Today programme, land of hope and glory, trooping the colour, and old maids bicycling to holy communion, etc.
But mainly it was of course an idealised version of the UK, rather than the one that the people there lived from day to day.
Since my wife and my two sons live in the UK, I dont have that problem, but nice try.
Topping , I know what you mean , I came back to UK due to daughter being here and often wish I had stayed in the US, you do give the old country a rosy glow when you are living abroad.
The Daily Telegraph Business News reports on 05/06/16:
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
Well, I guess that makes him a remainer then?
It makes him another interfering American. Perhaps we should all say a lot more about who they should vote for in their election, I am sure it will be appreciated.
Says the guy living 6,000 miles away.
Who is a registered voter and British citizen with most of my family living in the country... somehow I don't get the impression that Mr Kahneman is either.
I lived in Asia also a while ago. For me after a while it engendered a longing for the Today programme, land of hope and glory, trooping the colour, and old maids bicycling to holy communion, etc.
But mainly it was of course an idealised version of the UK, rather than the one that the people there lived from day to day.
Since my wife and my two sons live in the UK, I dont have that problem, but nice try.
Topping , I know what you mean , I came back to UK due to daughter being here and often wish I had stayed in the US, you do give the old country a rosy glow when you are living abroad.
There are far fewer checkout workers now because of the automated checkouts which have replaced them with maybe 1 person to assist if needed. Robot factory assembly lines are now used for all but the most skilled tasks. I would agree new sectors will open up, with the most creative having the best advantage
I think you will find that there just as many workers in each supermarket. And supermarkets actually finding the automated checkouts are rather problematic for a number of reasons and actually aren't that efficient for the store or shopper.
There is a far better solution in existence, e.g. self scan in the lies of Waitrose, and again that isn't working out for them. And a few years ago the hope was just to RFID tag everything and then have readers automatically total up everything without the shopper having to do anything, but still no signs of that anywhere.
The problem is again, lots of very simple tasks for humans are actually rather problematic for computers. And paying somebody £7 / hr, is a lot cheaper than the required investment to develop the solutions.
And as for robot factory assembly it is true, although again your iPhone still required a company that employs a million people to make.
There are not, there are 6 automatic checkouts at my local Tesco and they have obviously reduced the number of staff who work at the checkout accordingly. Yes computers may not replace all roles but where companies can automate and save costs they will
.
Yup, the stats back you up. I worked in Leeds, and our of clients were a very major supermarket.
What HYUFD doesn't realise more and more stores are opening, as well as existing stores opening 24 hours a day, 6 days a week in England & Wales.
They are employing more and more staff, add in the likes of LIDL and ALDI expanding.
More people work in supermarkets than ever before, both in absolute numbers and headcount
Yes there are more stores opening up but most of the smaller stores, Tesco Express etc are mainly filled with automated checkouts with only 1 or two staff at the till
More people work for tescos etc than ever before. That is the fact. Automated tills are not putting people out of work, they are doing different jobs etc.
No no, people who work in Tesco only work at the checkouts.
There are far fewer checkout workers now because of the automated checkouts which have replaced them with maybe 1 person to assist if needed. Robot factory assembly lines are now used for all but the most skilled tasks. I would agree new sectors will open up, with the most creative having the best advantage
I think you will find that there just as many workers in each supermarket. And supermarkets actually finding the automated checkouts are rather problematic for a number of reasons and actually aren't that efficient for the store or shopper.
There is a far better solution in existence, e.g. self scan in the lies of Waitrose, and again that isn't working out for them. And a few years ago the hope was just to RFID tag everything and then have readers automatically total up everything without the shopper having to do anything, but still no signs of that anywhere.
The problem is again, lots of very simple tasks for humans are actually rather problematic for computers. And paying somebody £7 / hr, is a lot cheaper than the required investment to develop the solutions.
And as for robot factory assembly it is true, although again your iPhone still required a company that employs a million people to make.
There are not, there are 6 automatic checkouts at my local Tesco and they have obviously reduced the number of staff who work at the checkout accordingly. Yes computers may not replace all roles but where companies can automate and save costs they will
Go check figures...there are just as many (if not more) people working for Tescos, Morrisons, etc as ever before. I didn't say people working at the checkout, I said working in the supermarkets (as that is the key argument, that computerisation etc won't actually mean all these people are out of jobs, instead they do different jobs).
Yup, the stats back you up. I worked in Leeds, and our of clients were a very major supermarket.
Yes there are more stores opening up but most of the smaller stores, Tesco Express etc are mainly filled with automated checkouts with only 1 or two staff at the till
There's facts and then there's HYUFD opinions.
It is fact, the last Tesco Express I used had 4 automated checkouts, 2 at the till. The local main Tesco store has 6 automated checkouts with only 1 member of staff supervising them
Comments
*TSE stands with his nose pressed against the glass, peering in all forlorn as we raise a glass to vanquishing the French. And the rest of Europe too. But let's face it. mostly the French...)
That's federalism, if ever I saw it.
Whoever wins, they win.
I do call Leavers stupid though, but it is a very positive thread for Leave.
Mostly ahead on F1, though
On the other hand if remain win- I'll be on here, the second after the result, gloating, pissing on all your Brexit parades, deifying Cameron, and most of all laughing at your misery. I can almost taste the sweetness of it all. Almost.
"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers..."
Henry VI, Part 2
The introduction of the automated checkout till has not resulted in 100,000s of people who work in supermarkets being made redundant.
I have. They're not particularly doom laden. As far as doom goes, when you actually read them, they say it will, broadly speaking, be hard to notice the difference. A few % of notional GDP growth by 2030, as if economists actually had an idea what 2030 will look like.
Then the doom of a recession if we leave. 1 year long recession. Apparently it will be 4 straight quarters of -0.1% GDP contraction.
What all these assume is that a Brexit government will not be out forging free trade deals. If we do, then by 2030 I would say we would see no difference to a slight positive.
So all the Remainers on here predicting the sky will fall in if we leave, it wont. That is not what the reports actually say.
What HYUFD doesn't realise more and more stores are opening, as well as existing stores opening 24 hours a day, 6 days a week in England & Wales.
They are employing more and more staff, add in the likes of LIDL and ALDI expanding.
More people work in supermarkets than ever before, both in absolute numbers and headcount
"British voters are succumbing to impulsive gut feelings and irrational reflexes in the Brexit campaign with little regard for the enormous consequences down the road, the world's most influential psychologist has warned.
Daniel Kahneman, the Israeli Nobel laureate and father of behavioural economics, said the referendum debate is being driven by a destructive psychological process, one that could lead to a grave misjudgment and a downward spiral for British society.
"The major impression one gets observing the debate is that the reasons for exit are clearly emotional," he said.
I once negotiated an agreement between a French SIE and a high profile US company. We had 28 says to reach agreement or the lawyers automatically got involved. Took us 18 months and no one cared - or called the lawyers
Or question the safety of the Bride's seat.
Splits within @StrongerIn as @johnmcdonnellMP calls on Dave & George to "back off" https://t.co/ghDp0ifYnO https://t.co/NHR8xINv6X
You asked my view on the deal. Simply:
1) codified no ever closer union
2) no EZ/non-EZ discrimination
3) no banking union
4) not much on immigration
5) some fluff on competitiveness
1)-3) pretty important IMO
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3UlEHIpYeY
Walmart - ever the high tech leader - is developing plans to use drones for inventory counting in warehouses, reducing both the time needed for the exercise and staff costs.
Many people avoid self-checkouts (which require 1 employee for 4 or 6 checkouts) so at peak times the regular checkouts are very busy.
On a more serious note, emotions will play a role on both sides. Personally, I dislike an emotional case for or against something and prefer a strictly rational approach. The £4,300 fiction has not persuaded me of the perils of leaving. So much has been overblown (on both sides) I've found very little to actually be worthy of attention.
Fortunately, we have a race next weekend, and the weekend right after that.
Confirmation they are operating on a wing and a prayer more like.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/michael-gove-triumph-of-freedom-over-evil-1-1302486
"The liberation of Iraq has been that rarest of things – a proper British foreign policy success"
http://www.voteleavetakecontrol.org/top_judge_blows_apart_government_s_eu_renegotiation
Die Hard (1988)
That is what the Brexiteers were suggesting earlier. Not that the timing would change, but that the existing treaties would be replaced by a new agreement, that would be replaced by another agreement when they figured out what they wanted.
Not what the Treaty says. There is no 3rd door...
(Good evening, everybody.)
The ability to sack our law makers, to make our own laws instead of them being imposed upon us, and to be responsible for our own governance are good things.
Mr. 1983, and others: there's a huge amount of politics in psychology. Some of it is hard science (essentially, biology), and it goes all the way to sociology (which blames society for everything). The influence of politics looms large, though.
That's why feminist psychology began, because middle class white men were seen as the norm. But then black feminist psychology began, because feminist psychology considered white middle class women the norm.
Marxism features in one theory explaining racism (I think it's meant to be displaced anger at one's bosses/parents towards those more vulnerable [minorities]). It even featured in views of how the brain worked (during the Cold War) when Soviet scientists claimed it was the same throughout and capitalist countries had psychologists who claimed each part was compartmentalised to specialise (the truth is somewhere in between).
But mainly it was of course an idealised version of the UK, rather than the one that the people there lived from day to day.
Girl answering door: Yes?
Colleague (makes rapid assessment, decides age 15): Is your mother in?
Girl: she doesn't live here.
Colleague: (confused look)
Girl: If it's about the referendum you probably want me...I'm 22...
Cameron's portrayed leaving as so terrible such a claim would be unbelievable even if he hadn't already wrecked his own credibility.
.... Even though @JohnnyMercerMP admits he ran a constituency survey which found 74% wanted to leave
I just can't see the scenario whereby the ECJ rips up the deal (something that every expert apart from "2020" said would be ludicrous) and we say: oh, ok then.
I also, btw, think that it would be ludicrous for the ECJ to strike down a deal just agreed by all EU Heads of State.
The Denmark rejected Maastricht the Council of Europe ("heads of state") made a number of promises to Denmark concerning citizenship, border control and even the names it's citizens are allowed to use. This deal was totally ignored by the ECJ who made it plain that it was only interested in ratified treaties. It is an exactly comparable situation to our own.
(The ECJ has also thrown out a resolution by the UN Security Council on a similar basis) See above, they have form, it's happened before.
The tax environment was great, that said.
Whether for good or ill June 23rd will go down as one of the most Significant in our history if we vote out
(sorry, it's a sore point)
I was rather irked by this statement:
"However, rather than allowing noncompliance of the resolutions, the UNSC might consider introducing necessary improvements, thereby avoiding undermining the authority and effectiveness of the anti-terrorist sanctions regime.[27]"
The ECJ basically told the UNSC to go and try again. Sounds a lot like a European institution to me!