@RobD Your 1) and 2) don't work for me - I'm obviously doing something wrong.
Double umlauted letters are specific to Hungary - they have four forms of each of the letters o and u, as follows:
o, ó, ö, ő u, ú, ü, ű
To Hungarians they all sound as different as o and u.
Hm, try alt+148, alt+153 for o, and alt+129, alt+154 for u.
For the double umlaut, this is what I found on a cursory google search:
á = Alt+160 Á = Alt+181 é = Alt+130 É = Alt+144 í = Alt+161 Í = Alt+214 ó = Alt+162 Ó = Alt+224 ö = Alt+148 Ö = Alt+153 ő = Alt+139 Ő = Alt+138 ú = Alt+163 Ú = Alt+233 ü = Alt+129 Ü = Alt+154 ű = Alt+251 Ű = Alt+235
Might be best to use the symbol inserter, or have a document saved with them all in, rather than remembering all these
Mr. Observer, if someone thinks the EU is destined to collapse, the sooner it happens the better. The longer it takes, the more entangled political structures are, and the greater the pain of disentangling them.
I don't want the EU to have a disorderly disintegration, but given its inability to reform and become just a trade bloc, a smooth transition to a trade agreement with those who wish to be politically integrated going (separately) down that road would be a very good thing.
I can't remember (was a while ago and a lot was said at the time), but did you make a similar post about the possibility of Scottish independence? Some people are taking this vote more seriously than the break-up of the UK, which surprises me.
Yes I dont get why leaving a trade block is worse than the disintegration of the country. I guess you have to live in the South East to get it.
Surely the point is that there was nothing people outside Scotland could do about the Independence vote?
In this referendum, we have a vote.
If all you can do is accept what other people decide, there is a limit to how engaged you can feel.
That's certainly true.
However I have been bemused by comments from remainers on the board that out is a bigger issue than Indyref.
Personally I don't see it that way, but as I have commented before this ref is probably more values driven which is why Remain and Leave enthusiasts just can't understand where the other side is coming from.
WRT the Scottish referendum, I commented If all you can do is accept what other people decide, there is a limit to how engaged you can feel.
Looking at that statement again, it really describes also why I at least feel so disengaged from the EU. I have no influence at all. How does my vote for an MEP influence what happens in the EU? Pfft.
Are the likes of Farage, Johnson, and Duncan Smith on course to destroy the visionary project of Monet, Schumann and De Gasperi? Truly the Vandals at the gate.
I find your hysterical aversion to democracy truly sinister.
Are the likes of Farage, Johnson, and Duncan Smith on course to destroy the visionary project of Monet, Schumann and De Gasperi? Truly the Vandals at the gate.
They are not destroying it, they are facilitating it. If we leave it will be much easier for the others to achieve ever closer union.
Mr. Observer, if someone thinks the EU is destined to collapse, the sooner it happens the better. The longer it takes, the more entangled political structures are, and the greater the pain of disentangling them.
I don't want the EU to have a disorderly disintegration, but given its inability to reform and become just a trade bloc, a smooth transition to a trade agreement with those who wish to be politically integrated going (separately) down that road would be a very good thing.
I can't remember (was a while ago and a lot was said at the time), but did you make a similar post about the possibility of Scottish independence? Some people are taking this vote more seriously than the break-up of the UK, which surprises me.
Globally, Brexit would be a far bigger deal than Scotland becoming independent.
How ? Most of the economics is just scaremongering fact is no-one knows.
There will be a shock probably a mild one on Brexit but thereafter all bets are off. Our CoE has caused as much of shock on his own and we are still here.
The dissolution of the Uk is a bigger issue.
It's true, no-one does know, I am stating an opinion. What I see out there is a very fragile recovery in Europe and very jittery markets in Asia. The US is also in an election year and so not stable. I think there is a considerable danger that given the UK's current integration into the single market, investors could react very badly to us pulling out. At a minimum, Brexit means several years of uncertainty. Hopefully, though, I am wrong and you are right.
You say uncertainty a lot as if uncertainty is simply a bad thing. Uncertainty can be a good thing.
Long term a decent amount of uncertainty leads to more growth. Attempting to abolish uncertainty, to "abolish boom and bust" as you could say is doomed to failure.
Police in Greece and the Czech Republic have arrested more than 20 people suspected of forging travel documents for migrants trying to enter Europe.
Europol said the network was based in Athens and consisted of two criminal groups, one run by Sudanese people and another by Bangladeshis, and 16 people have been arrested in Greece.
Here's a dilemma for Europhobes. A court opinion that employers may ban the wearing of headscarves by Muslim women - emanating from the CJEU's Advocate-General:
Why is it in anyway a dilemma for a Eurosceptic (Europhobes only exist in your imagination).
This is a simple case of the ECJ making a ruling on something that should be entirely the role of the national courts to decide. Whichever way they rule they should not be making the ruling in the first place.
As an aside banning headscarfs is just daft. As is banning crucifixes, unless for specific safety reasons (on rigs all jewelry is banned including rings because of the number of injuries caused by them).
So Nicola and Alex are on course to lose back to back referendums within 9 months ?
Heart of stone..
Remain wins in Scotland & loses in rUK? Result.
Unlikely. Once enough Scottish families have had named visitors from the sociap services turning up and interrogating them as to whether they give their kids enough pocket money tbe SNP will be toast
I'm glad that more and more people are becoming aware of the 'named person' proposal in Scotland, and just what an Orwellian proposal it really is. I may support Scottish independence, and it would be ironic if the EU referendum contributes to it, but I certainly wouldn't be voting SNP if I was up there when this is the sort of abysmal and dangerous legislation that they are proposing. The sooner this is killed off the better.
I drove down the M40 through the north part of Oxfordshire yesterday and didn't see these posters (hopefully I was concentrating on the road sufficiently!):
Its going to be fascinating to see the mainstream media coverage of this over the next 10 days. They can't really ignore it without opening themselves up to ridicule given Euro 2016. I once saw a great program on how Franco, Mussolini and Hitler used football for their own political ends - I think the CGT have taken a lesson out of their textbook.
Case of the guy who allegedly tried to lop somebodies head off in the tube a few months ago has begun....
I'm going to spill your blood' as he tried to decapitate a Tube passenger with a blunt knife and attack four others in a 'brutal' attack, a court heard today.
Somalia-born Muhiddin Mire, 30, attacked musician Lyle Zimmerman, 56, at Leytonstone Underground station on December 5 and lashed out at anyone else who got in his way, the Old Bailey heard.
The jury was told Mire was 'motivated by revenge' for the bombing of Syria, and after the attack police found images of ISIS hostages having their throats cut and a graph of US and coalition air strikes on his phone.
@AlastairMeeks - If you can adjust to some of the keys not matching, why not just switch to the Hungarian keyboard layout temporarily in your operating system?
Anecdote alert from the (delayed) 18:03 Victoria service.
Eavesdropping first Brexit discussion. Two suited (no tie) middle-aged, middle-class conservative, possibly Conservative commuters.
Totally ambivalent about Brexit, but assuming Remain will win. Happy about the idea of PM Boris. Could go either way, but should have been in the bag for Remain.
Chaps in suits but without ties are prima facie scoundrels (bet their trousers were too long and their shoes were not polished). Never a good idea to pay any attention to such people.
Just passed an elderly gent with a Vote Leave badge in Piccadilly
Manchester or London?
Thirty years ago when I was standing on a station in the South London suburbs a chap came running down the ramp and started hectoring the platform attendant who was talking to another passenger as to whether the train in the platform was going to Victoria. The platform attendant refused to be interrupted and the guy got really abusive so the guy got on and door shut and loco took the train away.
After the train left the platform attendent shrugged his shoulders and said to two or three people nearby who had witnessed the incident. He didn't ask which Victoria that train is going to, that ones going to Manchester Victoria, next stop Reading
Didn't they rename Liverpool St station as "London Liverpool St" a few years back, after lots of confused tourists at Stansted Airport were presented with one train to Liverpool St and another opposite to Liverpool Lime St?
All the mainline termini are prefixed with "London" - except for London Bridge, which already has "London" in its name
Loughborough Junction is near Brixton, not Loughborough!
and you can get a train to both from St Pancras.
Either side of Stoke are stations called Longport and Longton. I bet that causes some confusion!
They're thinking of re-opening St. James station in Liverpool (which I've heard said has more disused railway stations than any city on earth).
Just passed an elderly gent with a Vote Leave badge in Piccadilly
Manchester or London?
Thirty years ago when I was standing on a station in the South London suburbs a chap came running down the ramp and started hectoring the platform attendant who was talking to another passenger as to whether the train in the platform was going to Victoria. The platform attendant refused to be interrupted and the guy got really abusive so the guy got on and door shut and loco took the train away.
After the train left the platform attendent shrugged his shoulders and said to two or three people nearby who had witnessed the incident. He didn't ask which Victoria that train is going to, that ones going to Manchester Victoria, next stop Reading
Didn't they rename Liverpool St station as "London Liverpool St" a few years back, after lots of confused tourists at Stansted Airport were presented with one train to Liverpool St and another opposite to Liverpool Lime St?
All the mainline termini are prefixed with "London" - except for London Bridge, which already has "London" in its name
Loughborough Junction is near Brixton, not Loughborough!
I used to get the train in to the LSE from there in student days when it was a straight walk downhill from Ferndene Road in Herne Hill.....but it only operated in the morning and evening rush hour....which wasn't necessarily great as a student!
Oh now they are every half hour during the day.
I was talking from nearly 20 years ago now! You'll have to forgive me for being out of date!
It was a very run down station in those days, from what I recall there were no permanent members of staff working there.....and it showed!
20 years ago I had much less grand ambitions, contenting myself with just doing all lines within Zones 1 to 4 of the London Travelcard area!
So Nicola and Alex are on course to lose back to back referendums within 9 months ?
Heart of stone..
Remain wins in Scotland & loses in rUK? Result.
Unlikely. Once enough Scottish families have had named visitors from the sociap services turning up and interrogating them as to whether they give their kids enough pocket money tbe SNP will be toast
I'm sure people will treat your views & insights on Scotland and its politics with the respect they deserve. Everyone can at least be sure that whatever politics come and go in Scotland, they won't resemble your favoured brand.
Mr. Observer, if someone thinks the EU is destined to collapse, the sooner it happens the better. The longer it takes, the more entangled political structures are, and the greater the pain of disentangling them.
I don't want the EU to have a disorderly disintegration, but given its inability to reform and become just a trade bloc, a smooth transition to a trade agreement with those who wish to be politically integrated going (separately) down that road would be a very good thing.
I can't remember (was a while ago and a lot was said at the time), but did you make a similar post about the possibility of Scottish independence? Some people are taking this vote more seriously than the break-up of the UK, which surprises me.
Globally, Brexit would be a far bigger deal than Scotland becoming independent.
How ? Most of the economics is just scaremongering fact is no-one knows.
There will be a shock probably a mild one on Brexit but thereafter all bets are off. Our CoE has caused as much of shock on his own and we are still here.
The dissolution of the Uk is a bigger issue.
It's true, no-one does know, I am stating an opinion. What I see out there is a very fragile recovery in Europe and very jittery markets in Asia. The US is also in an election year and so not stable. I think there is a considerable danger that given the UK's current integration into the single market, investors could react very badly to us pulling out. At a minimum, Brexit means several years of uncertainty. Hopefully, though, I am wrong and you are right.
You say uncertainty a lot as if uncertainty is simply a bad thing. Uncertainty can be a good thing.
Long term a decent amount of uncertainty leads to more growth. Attempting to abolish uncertainty, to "abolish boom and bust" as you could say is doomed to failure.
Yes, it can be. No doubt some people will do very well out of Brexit. My fear is that most people won't. However, I very much hope that I turn out to be wrong and you turn out to be right.
Mr. Observer, if someone thinks the EU is destined to collapse, the sooner it happens the better. The longer it takes, the more entangled political structures are, and the greater the pain of disentangling them.
I don't want the EU to have a disorderly disintegration, but given its inability to reform and become just a trade bloc, a smooth transition to a trade agreement with those who wish to be politically integrated going (separately) down that road would be a very good thing.
I can't remember (was a while ago and a lot was said at the time), but did you make a similar post about the possibility of Scottish independence? Some people are taking this vote more seriously than the break-up of the UK, which surprises me.
Yes I dont get why leaving a trade block is worse than the disintegration of the country. I guess you have to live in the South East to get it.
Surely the point is that there was nothing people outside Scotland could do about the Independence vote?
In this referendum, we have a vote.
If all you can do is accept what other people decide, there is a limit to how engaged you can feel.
That's certainly true.
However I have been bemused by comments from remainers on the board that out is a bigger issue than Indyref.
Personally I don't see it that way, but as I have commented before this ref is probably more values driven which is why Remain and Leave enthusiasts just can't understand where the other side is coming from.
WRT the Scottish referendum, I commented If all you can do is accept what other people decide, there is a limit to how engaged you can feel.
Looking at that statement again, it really describes also why I at least feel so disengaged from the EU. I have no influence at all. How does my vote for an MEP influence what happens in the EU? Pfft.
Two years ago I watched the TV hustings for the candidates to be President of Europe (or some such). I decided that I wanted to vote for the Green candidate - Ska. I still haven't received my ballot paper.
Are the likes of Farage, Johnson, and Duncan Smith on course to destroy the visionary project of Monet, Schumann and De Gasperi? Truly the Vandals at the gate.
Nope they are just trying to make sure the UK is not dragged into it. Almost no one in the UK wants to be part of a Federal Europe so the most sensible thing is to just let us be on our way - along with any other country that feels the same - and let those who want to unify under the Monnet (note the correct spelling) vision get on with it.
Unless of course you are one of those who think these things should be imposed on people against their will.
Are the likes of Farage, Johnson, and Duncan Smith on course to destroy the visionary project of Monet, Schumann and De Gasperi? Truly the Vandals at the gate.
I find your hysterical aversion to democracy truly sinister.
Absolutely!
One of the so obnoxious things that I've found about all the Remain economic scare stories is that they treat their view of the effects of Brexit in an otherwise static world. The effects of Brexit would be dynamic - with Britain leaving lots of other countries would be queueing up to leave the EU - arguably Sweden, Denmark, Hungary and Poland in the front line, and there would be a domino effect thereafter. Simply couching analysis assuming no external effects elsewhere on its own invalidates any of the remain scare tactics. But then, they could never bring themselves to admit that Brexit would set off a domino effect of the whole EU project tumbling down could they?!
Mr. Observer, if someone thinks the EU is destined to collapse, the sooner it happens the better. The longer it takes, the more entangled political structures are, and the greater the pain of disentangling them.
I don't want the EU to have a disorderly disintegration, but given its inability to reform and become just a trade bloc, a smooth transition to a trade agreement with those who wish to be politically integrated going (separately) down that road would be a very good thing.
I can't remember (was a while ago and a lot was said at the time), but did you make a similar post about the possibility of Scottish independence? Some people are taking this vote more seriously than the break-up of the UK, which surprises me.
Yes I dont get why leaving a trade block is worse than the disintegration of the country. I guess you have to live in the South East to get it.
Surely the point is that there was nothing people outside Scotland could do about the Independence vote?
In this referendum, we have a vote.
If all you can do is accept what other people decide, there is a limit to how engaged you can feel.
That's certainly true.
However I have been bemused by comments from remainers on the board that out is a bigger issue than Indyref.
Personally I don't see it that way, but as I have commented before this ref is probably more values driven which is why Remain and Leave enthusiasts just can't understand where the other side is coming from.
WRT the Scottish referendum, I commented If all you can do is accept what other people decide, there is a limit to how engaged you can feel.
Looking at that statement again, it really describes also why I at least feel so disengaged from the EU. I have no influence at all. How does my vote for an MEP influence what happens in the EU? Pfft.
My point was that Brexit would have more of a global impact than the Scottish referendum. In other words, more people around the world would notice and care. I think within the UK Scottish independence is a far bigger deal. Certainly, it would sadden me far more than pulling out of the EU would. But as Jonathan notes, we may get two for the price of one. And clearly things will change with regards to Northern Ireland too as the open border between the North and the South - which cannot and will not be altered - will mean far stricter controls for travel from the North to the UK mainland.
Mr. Observer, if someone thinks the EU is destined to collapse, the sooner it happens the better. The longer it takes, the more entangled political structures are, and the greater the pain of disentangling them.
I don't want the EU to have a disorderly disintegration, but given its inability to reform and become just a trade bloc, a smooth transition to a trade agreement with those who wish to be politically integrated going (separately) down that road would be a very good thing.
I can't remember (was a while ago and a lot was said at the time), but did you make a similar post about the possibility of Scottish independence? Some people are taking this vote more seriously than the break-up of the UK, which surprises me.
Yes I dont get why leaving a trade block is worse than the disintegration of the country. I guess you have to live in the South East to get it.
Surely the point is that there was nothing people outside Scotland could do about the Independence vote?
In this referendum, we have a vote.
If all you can do is accept what other people decide, there is a limit to how engaged you can feel.
That's certainly true.
However I have been bemused by comments from remainers on the board that out is a bigger issue than Indyref.
Personally I don't see it that way, but as I have commented before this ref is probably more values driven which is why Remain and Leave enthusiasts just can't understand where the other side is coming from.
WRT the Scottish referendum, I commented If all you can do is accept what other people decide, there is a limit to how engaged you can feel.
Looking at that statement again, it really describes also why I at least feel so disengaged from the EU. I have no influence at all. How does my vote for an MEP influence what happens in the EU? Pfft.
Two years ago I watched the TV hustings for the candidates to be President of Europe (or some such). I decided that I wanted to vote for the Green candidate - Ska. I still haven't received my ballot paper.
......and I don't recall ever having been consulted on Mario Draghi as president of the ECB or Mme Lagarde as head of the IMF, or deciding that the obnoxious Mr Schulz should be leader of the EU parliament. O purely democratic grounds alone, one should reject the whole construct of the EU.
Are the likes of Farage, Johnson, and Duncan Smith on course to destroy the visionary project of Monet, Schumann and De Gasperi? Truly the Vandals at the gate.
I find your hysterical aversion to democracy truly sinister.
Absolutely!
One of the so obnoxious things that I've found about all the Remain economic scare stories is that they treat their view of the effects of Brexit in an otherwise static world. The effects of Brexit would be dynamic - with Britain leaving lots of other countries would be queueing up to leave the EU - arguably Sweden, Denmark, Hungary and Poland in the front line, and there would be a domino effect thereafter. Simply couching analysis assuming no external effects elsewhere on its own invalidates any of the remain scare tactics. But then, they could never bring themselves to admit that Brexit would set off a domino effect of the whole EU project tumbling down could they?!
I think one of the fears of many Remain supporters is exactly that domino effect.
Saw a reference in a tweet to these report on the wise words of Diane Abbott.
Shadow secretary of state for international development Diane Abbott is among those who travelled to Dover to join the anti-fascist protest and she addressed the crowd. She told the cheering audience: 'It's 2016, Time for those racist rocks to go. Mr Cameron, tear down those cliffs.'
Mr. Observer, if someone thinks the EU is destined to collapse, the sooner it happens the better. The longer it takes, the more entangled political structures are, and the greater the pain of disentangling them.
I don't want the EU to have a disorderly disintegration, but given its inability to reform and become just a trade bloc, a smooth transition to a trade agreement with those who wish to be politically integrated going (separately) down that road would be a very good thing.
I can't remember (was a while ago and a lot was said at the time), but did you make a similar post about the possibility of Scottish independence? Some people are taking this vote more seriously than the break-up of the UK, which surprises me.
Yes I dont get why leaving a trade block is worse than the disintegration of the country. I guess you have to live in the South East to get it.
Surely the point is that there was nothing people outside Scotland could do about the Independence vote?
In this referendum, we have a vote.
If all you can do is accept what other people decide, there is a limit to how engaged you can feel.
That's certainly true.
However I have been bemused by comments from remainers on the board that out is a bigger issue than Indyref.
Personally I don't see it that way, but as I have commented before this ref is probably more values driven which is why Remain and Leave enthusiasts just can't understand where the other side is coming from.
WRT the Scottish referendum, I commented If all you can do is accept what other people decide, there is a limit to how engaged you can feel.
Looking at that statement again, it really describes also why I at least feel so disengaged from the EU. I have no influence at all. How does my vote for an MEP influence what happens in the EU? Pfft.
Two years ago I watched the TV hustings for the candidates to be President of Europe (or some such). I decided that I wanted to vote for the Green candidate - Ska. I still haven't received my ballot paper.
......and I don't recall ever having been consulted on Mario Draghi as president of the ECB or Mme Lagarde as head of the IMF, or deciding that the obnoxious Mr Schulz should be leader of the EU parliament. O purely democratic grounds alone, one should reject the whole construct of the EU.
I don't remember ever being consulted about Mark Carney being made governor of the Bank of England.
Mr. Observer, if someone thinks the EU is destined to collapse, the sooner it happens the better. The longer it takes, the more entangled political structures are, and the greater the pain of disentangling them.
I don't want the EU to have a disorderly disintegration, but given its inability to reform and become just a trade bloc, a smooth transition to a trade agreement with those who wish to be politically integrated going (separately) down that road would be a very good thing.
I can't remember (was a while ago and a lot was said at the time), but did you make a similar post about the possibility of Scottish independence? Some people are taking this vote more seriously than the break-up of the UK, which surprises me.
Yes I dont get why leaving a trade block is worse than the disintegration of the country. I guess you have to live in the South East to get it.
Surely the point is that there was nothing people outside Scotland could do about the Independence vote?
In this referendum, we have a vote.
If all you can do is accept what other people decide, there is a limit to how engaged you can feel.
That's certainly true.
However I have been bemused by comments from remainers on the board that out is a bigger issue than Indyref.
Personally I don't see it that way, but as I have commented before this ref is probably more values driven which is why Remain and Leave enthusiasts just can't understand where the other side is coming from.
WRT the Scottish referendum, I commented If all you can do is accept what other people decide, there is a limit to how engaged you can feel.
Looking at that statement again, it really describes also why I at least feel so disengaged from the EU. I have no influence at all. How does my vote for an MEP influence what happens in the EU? Pfft.
My point was that Brexit would have more of a global impact than the Scottish referendum. In other words, more people around the world would notice and care. I think within the UK Scottish independence is a far bigger deal. Certainly, it would sadden me far more than pulling out of the EU would. But as Jonathan notes, we may get two for the price of one. And clearly things will change with regards to Northern Ireland too as the open border between the North and the South - which cannot and will not be altered - will mean far stricter controls for travel from the North to the UK mainland.
Fair enough, Mr Observer, I wouldn't disagree with any of that. Can't see the downside though.
For Seventy years since the war, France could have held a football tournament promising visitors to that beautiful country nothing more than a rather good time.
Mr. Observer, if someone thinks the EU is destined to collapse, the sooner it happens the better. The longer it takes, the more entangled political structures are, and the greater the pain of disentangling them.
I don't want the EU to have a disorderly disintegration, but given its inability to reform and become just a trade bloc, a smooth transition to a trade agreement with those who wish to be politically integrated going (separately) down that road would be a very good thing.
I can't remember (was a while ago and a lot was said at the time), but did you make a similar post about the possibility of Scottish independence? Some people are taking this vote more seriously than the break-up of the UK, which surprises me.
Yes I dont get why leaving a trade block is worse than the disintegration of the country. I guess you have to live in the South East to get it.
Surely the point is that there was nothing people outside Scotland could do about the Independence vote?
In this referendum, we have a vote.
If all you can do is accept what other people decide, there is a limit to how engaged you can feel.
That's certainly true.
However I have been bemused by comments from remainers on the board that out is a bigger issue than Indyref.
Personally I don't see it that way, but as I have commented before this ref is probably more values driven which is why Remain and Leave enthusiasts just can't understand where the other side is coming from.
WRT the Scottish referendum, I commented If all you can do is accept what other people decide, there is a limit to how engaged you can feel.
Looking at that statement again, it really describes also why I at least feel so disengaged from the EU. I have no influence at all. How does my vote for an MEP influence what happens in the EU? Pfft.
Two years ago I watched the TV hustings for the candidates to be President of Europe (or some such). I decided that I wanted to vote for the Green candidate - Ska. I still haven't received my ballot paper.
......and I don't recall ever having been consulted on Mario Draghi as president of the ECB or Mme Lagarde as head of the IMF, or deciding that the obnoxious Mr Schulz should be leader of the EU parliament. O purely democratic grounds alone, one should reject the whole construct of the EU.
I don't remember ever being consulted about Mark Carney being made governor of the Bank of England.
And he removed the traditional Sunday Roast from his pubs....in favour of continental grub ;-)
Not a great loss in my opinion. What matters to my dad and his friends who frequent Woking Wetherspoons (which is one of the better ones) is curry night on a Thursday.
And he removed the traditional Sunday Roast from his pubs....in favour of continental grub ;-)
Does that still stand? Seemed like it was one of those 'no more salad cream' or 'Pasta hut' PR jobs to remind people how much they liked the Sunday Roast to me.
But then, they could never bring themselves to admit that Brexit would set off a domino effect of the whole EU project tumbling down could they?!
So you're saying the scare stories are underdone?
They're overdone in completely the wrong context on fantasy economic assumptions. Even in their worst case of trading under WTO trade rules, the maximum long term loss you could justify as 2% of GDP at a stretch, and that completely ignores the benefits from foregoing EU contributions, ability to negotiate free trade agreements with non-EU countries on much better terms than what the EU currently has in place which we have virtually no influence over......to the EU trade commissioner that we all had such say over electing.....not.
And they'll never bring themselves to admit that the whole EU project is on the hock with Brexit......that would be their jobs in Brussels and their very livelihoods at risk. They'll do anything and everything to defend that and their current priviledges. Look at how the ECB over the past 17 years have changed the rulebook to defend the Euro - abandon the convergence criteria for new members, abandon the non-bailout clause (you really think the German people would have accepted the Euro without that in the terms in 1999?!!)..........you can't make something work by force without the common consent of the people in the long term. Many politicians have tried over the course of history to circumvent the wishes of the people and it never works in the end. In that sense the Eurocrats are no different. Plus ca change.
Are the likes of Farage, Johnson, and Duncan Smith on course to destroy the visionary project of Monet, Schumann and De Gasperi? Truly the Vandals at the gate.
I find your hysterical aversion to democracy truly sinister.
Absolutely!
One of the so obnoxious things that I've found about all the Remain economic scare stories is that they treat their view of the effects of Brexit in an otherwise static world. The effects of Brexit would be dynamic - with Britain leaving lots of other countries would be queueing up to leave the EU - arguably Sweden, Denmark, Hungary and Poland in the front line, and there would be a domino effect thereafter. Simply couching analysis assuming no external effects elsewhere on its own invalidates any of the remain scare tactics. But then, they could never bring themselves to admit that Brexit would set off a domino effect of the whole EU project tumbling down could they?!
And if there was a collapse of the "EU project" in the terms you describe do you think it would destroy or create value for us (and the others)?
Or would you be happy enough to have seen this imperfect but very effective economic and trade area fall apart and have to be put back together inevitably not as well as it is put together now, for all its inefficiencies.
As long as you are in the queue for a kebab, I suppose, all is not lost.
For Seventy years since the war, France could have held a football tournament promising visitors to that beautiful country nothing more than a rather good time.
Now???
This is progress??? This is the EU working???
If any Western decision can be blamed for the rise of ISIS it's the Iraq war to which France was the leading voice of opposition. The root cause of the current crisis has nothing to do with the EU.
Are the likes of Farage, Johnson, and Duncan Smith on course to destroy the visionary project of Monet, Schumann and De Gasperi? Truly the Vandals at the gate.
I find your hysterical aversion to democracy truly sinister.
Absolutely!
One of the so obnoxious things that I've found about all the Remain economic scare stories is that they treat their view of the effects of Brexit in an otherwise static world. The effects of Brexit would be dynamic - with Britain leaving lots of other countries would be queueing up to leave the EU - arguably Sweden, Denmark, Hungary and Poland in the front line, and there would be a domino effect thereafter. Simply couching analysis assuming no external effects elsewhere on its own invalidates any of the remain scare tactics. But then, they could never bring themselves to admit that Brexit would set off a domino effect of the whole EU project tumbling down could they?!
I think one of the fears of many Remain supporters is exactly that domino effect.
But admitting that domino effect and the EU collapsing totally invalidates their analysis in the economic scare story that we'd face the EU playing hard ball over trading with them after Brexit if the EU collapses itself in short order? Surely you see that!
And he removed the traditional Sunday Roast from his pubs....in favour of continental grub ;-)
Not a great loss in my opinion. What matters to my dad and his friends who frequent Woking Wetherspoons (which is one of the better ones) is curry night on a Thursday.
Mr. Observer, if someone thinks the EU is destined to collapse, the sooner it happens the better. The longer it takes, the more entangled political structures are, and the greater the pain of disentangling them.
I don't want the EU to have a disorderly disintegration, but given its inability to reform and become just a trade bloc, a smooth transition to a trade agreement with those who wish to be politically integrated going (separately) down that road would be a very good thing.
I can't remember (was a while ago and a lot was said at the time), but did you make a similar post about the possibility of Scottish independence? Some people are taking this vote more seriously than the break-up of the UK, which surprises me.
Yes I dont get why leaving a trade block is worse than the disintegration of the country. I guess you have to live in the South East to get it.
Surely the point is that there was nothing people outside Scotland could do about the Independence vote?
In this referendum, we have a vote.
If all you can do is accept what other people decide, there is a limit to how engaged you can feel.
That's certainly true.
However I have been bemused by comments from remainers on the board that out is a bigger issue than Indyref.
Personally I don't see it that way, but as I have commented before this ref is probably more values driven which is why Remain and Leave enthusiasts just can't understand where the other side is coming from.
WRT the Scottish referendum, I commented If all you can do is accept what other people decide, there is a limit to how engaged you can feel.
Looking at that statement again, it really describes also why I at least feel so disengaged from the EU. I have no influence at all. How does my vote for an MEP influence what happens in the EU? Pfft.
Two years ago I watched the TV hustings for the candidates to be President of Europe (or some such). I decided that I wanted to vote for the Green candidate - Ska. I still haven't received my ballot paper.
......and EU.
I don't remember ever being consulted about Mark Carney being made governor of the Bank of England.
At least our Head of State is elected.
Ahem.
Don't get me started as a republican on our unelected head of state!
Just passed an elderly gent with a Vote Leave badge in Piccadilly
Manchester or London?
Thirty years ago when I was standing on a station in the South London suburbs a chap came running down the ramp and started hectoring the platform attendant who was talking to another passenger as to whether the train in the platform was going to Victoria. The platform attendant refused to be interrupted and the guy got really abusive so the guy got on and door shut and loco took the train away.
After the train left the platform attendent shrugged his shoulders and said to two or three people nearby who had witnessed the incident. He didn't ask which Victoria that train is going to, that ones going to Manchester Victoria, next stop Reading
Didn't they rename Liverpool St station as "London Liverpool St" a few years back, after lots of confused tourists at Stansted Airport were presented with one train to Liverpool St and another opposite to Liverpool Lime St?
All the mainline termini are prefixed with "London" - except for London Bridge, which already has "London" in its name
Loughborough Junction is near Brixton, not Loughborough!
and you can get a train to both from St Pancras.
Either side of Stoke are stations called Longport and Longton. I bet that causes some confusion!
They're thinking of re-opening St. James station in Liverpool (which I've heard said has more disused railway stations than any city on earth).
Not to be confused with James St.
I've been to James Street
Oh, London has perhaps 100 or so disused stations or station sites. I've visited virtually all of them, at least at street level.
Look at the Austrian presidential election, 60% youth unemployment and the unresolved issues on the Euro periphery, the rise of nationalism across the EU - its like the Ottoman empire circa 1916 - its just waiting for a few final knockout blows to consign the 'project' to the dustbin of history.
....
The Ottoman Empire lasted about 100 years waiting for the 'few final knockout blows'.
For Seventy years since the war, France could have held a football tournament promising visitors to that beautiful country nothing more than a rather good time.
Now???
This is progress??? This is the EU working???
If any Western decision can be blamed for the rise of ISIS it's the Iraq war to which France was the leading voice of opposition. The root cause of the current crisis has nothing to do with the EU.
Mad men have been blowing things up or flying planes into buildings before even the Iraq war.
France has had a particularly bad experience. I lived there briefly in the mid 1990s. You had to have your bag searched in every shop and train station due to Algerian terrorism.
But admitting that domino effect and the EU collapsing totally invalidates their analysis in the economic scare story that we'd face the EU playing hard ball over trading with them after Brexit if the EU collapses itself in short order? Surely you see that!
It's the Heisenberg EU. Simultaneously about to splinter, and moving inexorably and irreversibly into a superstate.
Are the likes of Farage, Johnson, and Duncan Smith on course to destroy the visionary project of Monet, Schumann and De Gasperi? Truly the Vandals at the gate.
I find your hysterical aversion to democracy truly sinister.
Absolutely!
One of the so obnoxious things that I've found about all the Remain economic scare stories is that they treat their view of the effects of Brexit in an otherwise static world. The effects of Brexit would be dynamic - with Britain leaving lots of other countries would be queueing up to leave the EU - arguably Sweden, Denmark, Hungary and Poland in the front line, and there would be a domino effect thereafter. Simply couching analysis assuming no external effects elsewhere on its own invalidates any of the remain scare tactics. But then, they could never bring themselves to admit that Brexit would set off a domino effect of the whole EU project tumbling down could they?!
And if there was a collapse of the "EU project" in the terms you describe do you think it would destroy or create value for us (and the others)?
Or would you be happy enough to have seen this imperfect but very effective economic and trade area fall apart and have to be put back together inevitably not as well as it is put together now, for all its inefficiencies.
As long as you are in the queue for a kebab, I suppose, all is not lost.
Mr. Topping, I'd be quite happy for the UK to belong to an imperfect but effective trade area, in fact I voted to do just that in 1975. What we now have is nothing of the sort and we are threatened with worse.
Don't get me started as a republican on our unelected head of state!
No doubt you have much to say on that subject, but I bet you're not advocating leaving the UK to achieve an elected Head of State or elected governor of the Bank of England.
Are the likes of Farage, Johnson, and Duncan Smith on course to destroy the visionary project of Monet, Schumann and De Gasperi? Truly the Vandals at the gate.
I find your hysterical aversion to democracy truly sinister.
Absolutely!
One of the so obnoxious things that I've found about all the Remain economic scare stories is that they treat their view of the effects of Brexit in an otherwise static world. The effects of Brexit would be dynamic - with Britain leaving lots of other countries would be queueing up to leave the EU - arguably Sweden, Denmark, Hungary and Poland in the front line, and there would be a domino effect thereafter. Simply couching analysis assuming no external effects elsewhere on its own invalidates any of the remain scare tactics. But then, they could never bring themselves to admit that Brexit would set off a domino effect of the whole EU project tumbling down could they?!
And if there was a collapse of the "EU project" in the terms you describe do you think it would destroy or create value for us (and the others)?
Or would you be happy enough to have seen this imperfect but very effective economic and trade area fall apart and have to be put back together inevitably not as well as it is put together now, for all its inefficiencies.
As long as you are in the queue for a kebab, I suppose, all is not lost.
'Very efficient economic and trade area"!
Are you having a laugh? EU trade has grown much slower since 1973 than it did before those years in the 1960's when we weren't part of the common market as was the case then. A free market in agriculture?......when 3rd world countries are shut out of EU markets. The complete failure of the common fisheries policy (CFP) when you compare the fishing industry across the EU to countries like Iceland which have managed their stocks properly over the years.
And Europe is in long term economic decline relative to the rest of the world. Asia is where the future is going to be post 2030. The natural fit for the peoples of the EU is free trade nation state governments that cover areas of common language and (broadly) common culture. On that basis, the EU is simply not fit for purpose as I explained in a long post below.
But admitting that domino effect and the EU collapsing totally invalidates their analysis in the economic scare story that we'd face the EU playing hard ball over trading with them after Brexit if the EU collapses itself in short order? Surely you see that!
It's the Heisenberg EU. Simultaneously about to splinter, and moving inexorably and irreversibly into a superstate.
Critics would say it's more like the Hindenberg EU. Full of people in blissful ignorance that their luxury vessel will go down in flames.
Are the likes of Farage, Johnson, and Duncan Smith on course to destroy the visionary project of Monet, Schumann and De Gasperi? Truly the Vandals at the gate.
Might've been nice to actually ask the people if they actually wanted that vision? Germans not deemed needed to vote on abandoning the DM? The Giscardian constitution rejected, then renamed the Lisbon Treaty and being described as a "tidying up excercise" ( smell that patronising pat on the head run along now we know best attitude) and then "proudly" signed in the dead of night by Gordon Brown practically smuggled in under a blanket.
But admitting that domino effect and the EU collapsing totally invalidates their analysis in the economic scare story that we'd face the EU playing hard ball over trading with them after Brexit if the EU collapses itself in short order? Surely you see that!
It's the Heisenberg EU. Simultaneously about to splinter, and moving inexorably and irreversibly into a superstate.
If one thinks it's on the cusp of becoming a superstate that would in any case exclude the UK, then why would one exit the room right before the negotiations begin, rather than seeking to influence and protect one's interests while one leaves?
I suppose it's like looking for logic in a Donald Trump supporter's manifesto.
Are the likes of Farage, Johnson, and Duncan Smith on course to destroy the visionary project of Monet, Schumann and De Gasperi? Truly the Vandals at the gate.
I find your hysterical aversion to democracy truly sinister.
Absolutely!
One of the so obnoxious things that I've found about all the Remain economic scare stories is that they treat their view of the effects of Brexit in an otherwise static world. The effects of Brexit would be dynamic - with Britain leaving lots of other countries would be queueing up to leave the EU - arguably Sweden, Denmark, Hungary and Poland in the front line, and there would be a domino effect thereafter. Simply couching analysis assuming no external effects elsewhere on its own invalidates any of the remain scare tactics. But then, they could never bring themselves to admit that Brexit would set off a domino effect of the whole EU project tumbling down could they?!
And if there was a collapse of the "EU project" in the terms you describe do you think it would destroy or create value for us (and the others)?
Or would you be happy enough to have seen this imperfect but very effective economic and trade area fall apart and have to be put back together inevitably not as well as it is put together now, for all its inefficiencies.
As long as you are in the queue for a kebab, I suppose, all is not lost.
Mr. Topping, I'd be quite happy for the UK to belong to an imperfect but effective trade area, in fact I voted to do just that in 1975. What we now have is nothing of the sort and we are threatened with worse.
Did you ever notice how much more complicated the world is today compared with 1975? Were seatbelts compulsory? Other stuff?
The world and its trading relationships have got much more complicated over the years. Not to say that some of the EU stuff isn't irritating to say the least, but it is an ok set of agreements with certainly some coverage creep here and there, but nothing IMO to justify throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Don't get me started as a republican on our unelected head of state!
No doubt you have much to say on that subject, but I bet you're not advocating leaving the UK to achieve an elected Head of State or elected governor of the Bank of England.
I think we can agree that the two are pretty much independent!
Although I do believe that the UK royal family are not going to fare well over the next 4 or 5 years when a lot of the dirt comes out.....and I think you know what I'm talking about........along with the collapse and lack of confidence in governments worldwide going into 2020.
Mr. Observer, if someone thinks the EU is destined to collapse, the sooner it happens the better. The longer it takes, the more entangled political structures are, and the greater the pain of disentangling them.
I don't want the EU to have a disorderly disintegration, but given its inability to reform and become just a trade bloc, a smooth transition to a trade agreement with those who wish to be politically integrated going (separately) down that road would be a very good thing.
I can't remember (was a while ago and a lot was said at the time), but did you make a similar post about the possibility of Scottish independence? Some people are taking this vote more seriously than the break-up of the UK, which surprises me.
Yes I dont get why leaving a trade block is worse than the disintegration of the country. I guess you have to live in the South East to get it.
Surely the point is that there was nothing people outside Scotland could do about the Independence vote?
In this referendum, we have a vote.
If all you can do is accept what other people decide, there is a limit to how engaged you can feel.
That's certainly true.
However I have been bemused by comments from remainers on the board that out is a bigger issue than Indyref.
Personally I don't see it that way, but as I have commented before this ref is probably more values driven which is why Remain and Leave enthusiasts just can't understand where the other side is coming from.
WRT the Scottish referendum, I commented If all you can do is accept what other people decide, there is a limit to how engaged you can feel.
Looking at that statement again, it really describes also why I at least feel so disengaged from the EU. I have no influence at all. How does my vote for an MEP influence what happens in the EU? Pfft.
Two years ago I watched the TV hustings for the candidates to be President of Europe (or some such). I decided that I wanted to vote for the Green candidate - Ska. I still haven't received my ballot paper.
I assume you voted Green at the election. EPP were the top party at that election, so their candidate, Jean-Claude Juncker, became President of the Commission. Nobody outside Oxon got a ballot paper saying CAMERON, David either.
Are the likes of Farage, Johnson, and Duncan Smith on course to destroy the visionary project of Monet, Schumann and De Gasperi? Truly the Vandals at the gate.
Might've been nice to actually ask the people if they actually wanted that vision? Germans not deemed needed to vote on abandoning the DM? The Giscardian constitution rejected, then renamed the Lisbon Treaty and being described as a "tidying up excercise" ( smell that patronising pat on the head run along now we know best attitude) and then "proudly" signed in the dead of night by Gordon Brown practically smuggled in under a blanket.
Europeans repeatedly voted for pro-integration governments. It is just barely possible that German politicians in 1965 knew better the will of the German people in 1965 than UK-based writers on a right-wing blog comments page in 2015.
Are the likes of Farage, Johnson, and Duncan Smith on course to destroy the visionary project of Monet, Schumann and De Gasperi? Truly the Vandals at the gate.
I find your hysterical aversion to democracy truly sinister.
Absolutely!
One of the so obnoxious things that I've found about all the Remain economic scare stories is that they treat their view of the effects of Brexit in an otherwise static world. The effects of Brexit would be dynamic - with Britain leaving lots of other countries would be queueing up to leave the EU - arguably Sweden, Denmark, Hungary and Poland in the front line, and there would be a domino effect thereafter. Simply couching analysis assuming no external effects elsewhere on its own invalidates any of the remain scare tactics. But then, they could never bring themselves to admit that Brexit would set off a domino effect of the whole EU project tumbling down could they?!
And if there was a collapse of the "EU project" in the terms you describe do you think it would destroy or create value for us (and the others)?
Or would you be happy enough to have seen this imperfect but very effective economic and trade area fall apart and have to be put back together inevitably not as well as it is put together now, for all its inefficiencies.
As long as you are in the queue for a kebab, I suppose, all is not lost.
I don't see why the EU should fall apart if the UK leaves. After all, Scotland will be simultaneously out of the starting blocks trying to join it.
But just suppose it did fall apart, and it was seen as worth while to try again. Surely experience would enable it to be put back together better than it is now?
Time to get my tea....I'll be back later on when hopefully we have some more polls to backup ORB and ICM. Yes the 'bank holiday' effect is a concern with more affluent voters away.....but the panic in the remain camp this afternoon has been a joy to behold.
Are the likes of Farage, Johnson, and Duncan Smith on course to destroy the visionary project of Monet, Schumann and De Gasperi? Truly the Vandals at the gate.
I find your hysterical aversion to democracy truly sinister.
Absolutely!
One of the so obnoxious things that I've found about all the Remain economic scare stories is that they treat their view of the effects of Brexit in an otherwise static world. The effects of Brexit would be dynamic - with Britain leaving lots of other countries would be queueing up to leave the EU - arguably Sweden, Denmark, Hungary and Poland in the front line, and there would be a domino effect thereafter. Simply couching analysis assuming no external effects elsewhere on its own invalidates any of the remain scare tactics. But then, they could never bring themselves to admit that Brexit would set off a domino effect of the whole EU project tumbling down could they?!
And if there was a collapse of the "EU project" in the terms you describe do you think it would destroy or create value for us (and the others)?
Or would you be happy enough to have seen this imperfect but very effective economic and trade area fall apart and have to be put back together inevitably not as well as it is put together now, for all its inefficiencies.
As long as you are in the queue for a kebab, I suppose, all is not lost.
Mr. Topping, I'd be quite happy for the UK to belong to an imperfect but effective trade area, in fact I voted to do just that in 1975. What we now have is nothing of the sort and we are threatened with worse.
Did you ever notice how much more complicated the world is today compared with 1975? Were seatbelts compulsory....
No and they shouldnt be now - just the sort of thing you get in an undemocratic bureacracy.
By all means make them available but it is not the states business to force you to wear them.
Mr. Observer, if someone thinks the EU is destined to collapse, the sooner it happens the better. The longer it takes, the more entangled political structures are, and the greater the pain of disentangling them.
I don't want the EU to have a disorderly disintegration, but given its inability to reform and become just a trade bloc, a smooth transition to a trade agreement with those who wish to be politically integrated going (separately) down that road would be a very good thing.
I can't remember (was a while ago and a lot was said at the time), but did you make a similar post about the possibility of Scottish independence? Some people are taking this vote more seriously than the break-up of the UK, which surprises me.
Yes I dont get why leaving a trade block is worse than the disintegration of the country. I guess you have to live in the South East to get it.
Surely the point is that there was nothing people outside Scotland could do about the Independence vote?
In this referendum, we have a vote.
If all you can do is accept what other people decide, there is a limit to how engaged you can feel.
That's certainly true.
However I have been bemused by comments from remainers on the board that out is a bigger issue than Indyref.
Personally I don't see it that way, but as I have commented before this ref is probably more values driven which is why Remain and Leave enthusiasts just can't understand where the other side is coming from.
WRT the Scottish referendum, I commented If all you can do is accept what other people decide, there is a limit to how engaged you can feel.
Looking at that statement again, it really describes also why I at least feel so disengaged from the EU. I have no influence at all. How does my vote for an MEP influence what happens in the EU? Pfft.
Two years ago I watched the TV hustings for the candidates to be President of Europe (or some such). I decided that I wanted to vote for the Green candidate - Ska. I still haven't received my ballot paper.
I assume you voted Green at the election. EPP were the top party at that election, so their candidate, Jean-Claude Juncker, became President of the Commission. Nobody outside Oxon got a ballot paper saying CAMERON, David either.
Nearly everyone got a ballot paper that listed "the Conservative party candidate" - and most people voted at least in part based on who they wanted to be in government.
Are the likes of Farage, Johnson, and Duncan Smith on course to destroy the visionary project of Monet, Schumann and De Gasperi? Truly the Vandals at the gate.
I find your hysterical aversion to democracy truly sinister.
Absolutely!
One of the so obnoxious things that I've found about all the Remain economic scare stories is that they treat their view of the effescare tactics. But then, they could never bring themselves to admit that Brexit would set off a domino effect of the whole EU project tumbling down could they?!
And if there was a collapse of the "EU project" in the terms you describe do you think it would destroy or create value for us (and the others)?
Or would you be happy enough to have seen this imperfect but very effective economic and trade area fall apart and have to be put back together inevitably not as well as it is put together now, for all its inefficiencies.
As long as you are in the queue for a kebab, I suppose, all is not lost.
'Very efficient economic and trade area"!
Are you having a laugh? EU trade has grown much slower since 1973 than it did before those years in the 1960's when we weren't part of the common market as was the case then. A free market in agriculture?......when 3rd world countries are shut out of EU markets. The complete failure of the common fisheries policy (CFP) when you compare the fishing industry across the EU to countries like Iceland which have managed their stocks properly over the years.
And Europe is in long term economic decline relative to the rest of the world. Asia is where the future is going to be post 2030. The natural fit for the peoples of the EU is free trade nation state governments that cover areas of common language and (broadly) common culture. On that basis, the EU is simply not fit for purpose as I explained in a long post below.
Dear god there are hundreds and hundreds of pages of EU directives and implementation protocols concerning financial services in Europe. Trading stocks and shares. The sort of thing that would, in 1975, have been conducted after a long lunch and eased by any number of inducements.
It is a hugely irritating but ultimately well-intentioned and effective step forward in the aim of protecting the consumer (ie you and your pension fund).
But no, you want to go back to 1963, even - forget about 1975 - to recapture the golden age of shady deals and opacity in the stock market.
Are the likes of Farage, Johnson, and Duncan Smith on course to destroy the visionary project of Monet, Schumann and De Gasperi? Truly the Vandals at the gate.
I find your hysterical aversion to democracy truly sinister.
Absolutely!
One of the so obnoxious things that I've found about all the Remain economic scare stories is that they treat their view of the effects of Brexit in an otherwise static world. The effects of Brexit would be dynamic - with Britain leaving lots of other countries would be queueing up to leave the EU - arguably Sweden, Denmark, Hungary and Poland in the front line, and there would be a domino effect thereafter. Simply couching analysis assuming no external effects elsewhere on its own invalidates any of the remain scare tactics. But then, they could never bring themselves to admit that Brexit would set off a domino effect of the whole EU project tumbling down could they?!
And if there was a collapse of the "EU project" in the terms you describe do you think it would destroy or create value for us (and the others)?
Or would you be happy enough to have seen this imperfect but very effective economic and trade area fall apart and have to be put back together inevitably not as well as it is put together now, for all its inefficiencies.
As long as you are in the queue for a kebab, I suppose, all is not lost.
Mr. Topping, I'd be quite happy for the UK to belong to an imperfect but effective trade area, in fact I voted to do just that in 1975. What we now have is nothing of the sort and we are threatened with worse.
Did you ever notice how much more complicated the world is today compared with 1975? Were seatbelts compulsory? Other stuff?
The world and its trading relationships have got much more complicated over the years. Not to say that some of the EU stuff isn't irritating to say the least, but it is an ok set of agreements with certainly some coverage creep here and there, but nothing IMO to justify throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
I rather think that the EEC, that I voted for, has moved beyond a trading block. I am not sure why a trading community needs, for example a External Action Service and an army to give its foreign policy credibility.
No, Mr. Topping, buying and selling has not got more complex, actually international trade has become much easier since 1975. The EEC/EC/EU has morphed into something that I think is not in the interest of the people of the UK, or anywhere else for that matter.
Are the likes of Farage, Johnson, and Duncan Smith on course to destroy the visionary project of Monet, Schumann and De Gasperi? Truly the Vandals at the gate.
Might've been nice to actually ask the people if they actually wanted that vision? Germans not deemed needed to vote on abandoning the DM? The Giscardian constitution rejected, then renamed the Lisbon Treaty and being described as a "tidying up excercise" ( smell that patronising pat on the head run along now we know best attitude) and then "proudly" signed in the dead of night by Gordon Brown practically smuggled in under a blanket.
Europeans repeatedly voted for pro-integration governments. It is just barely possible that German politicians in 1965 knew better the will of the German people in 1965 than UK-based writers on a right-wing blog comments page in 2015.
Genuine question: don't understand the 1965 reference ( unless it was general in which case fair enough). I was referring to the lack of a vote in the 90's in Germany about adopting the Euro ( amongst others) I'm dead certain they'd have voted no and saved a lot of grief all round. I've got more faith in the good sense of the voters of Europe than many European leaders seem to have had over the past 60 odd years. Ultimately if you don't take the voters with you they'll store it up and kick hard one day maybe just to make sure someone's actually noticing them.
Are the likes of Farage, Johnson, and Duncan Smith on course to destroy the visionary project of Monet, Schumann and De Gasperi? Truly the Vandals at the gate.
I find your hysterical aversion to democracy truly sinister.
Absolutely!
One of the so obnoxious things that I've found about all the Remain economic scare stories is that they treat their view of the effects of Brexit in an otherwise static world. The effects of Brexit would be dynamic - with Britain leaving lots of other countries would be queueing up to leave the EU - arguably Sweden, Denmark, Hungary and Poland in the front line, and there would be a domino effect thereafter. Simply couching analysis assuming no external effects elsewhere on its own invalidates any of the remain scare tactics. But then, they could never bring themselves to admit that Brexit would set off a domino effect of the whole EU project tumbling down could they?!
And if there was a collapse of the "EU project" in the terms you describe do you think it would destroy or create value for us (and the others)?
Or would you be happy enough to have seen this imperfect but very effective economic and trade area fall apart and have to be put back together inevitably not as well as it is put together now, for all its inefficiencies.
As long as you are in the queue for a kebab, I suppose, all is not lost.
Mr. Topping, I'd be quite happy for the UK to belong to an imperfect but effective trade area, in fact I voted to do just that in 1975. What we now have is nothing of the sort and we are threatened with worse.
Did you ever notice how much more complicated the world is today compared with 1975? Were seatbelts compulsory? Other stuff?
The world and its trading relationships have got much more complicated over the years. Not to say that some of the EU stuff isn't irritating to say the least, but it is an ok set of agreements with certainly some coverage creep here and there, but nothing IMO to justify throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
I rather think that the EEC, that I voted for, has moved beyond a trading block. I am not sure why a trading community needs, for example a External Action Service and an army to give its foreign policy credibility.
No, Mr. Topping, buying and selling has not got more complex, actually international trade has become much easier since 1975. The EEC/EC/EU has morphed into something that I think is not in the interest of the people of the UK, or anywhere else for that matter.
Buying and selling shares has got a lot more complex.
Question to Labour remainers/Tory Brexiteers: Would you swap a leave vote for Corbyn as PM?
Hmm. I think a Leave vote would be a disaster, as noted earlier, but I also think it would quite possibly lead to a Corbyn government, as I really think the Leave Tories have underestimated the Black Wednesday style economic vortex that would follow Leave. My ideal if we did vote Leave, I think, would be general consensus that it was a horrible mistake, with Corbyn taking over and getting some genuine negotiations leading to a fresh vote.
I appreciate that it's a minority view here!
Yes it is rather. If the people have voted then the result is not a horrible mistake. It is what some of us call democracy.
Question to Labour remainers/Tory Brexiteers: Would you swap a leave vote for Corbyn as PM?
Hmm. I think a Leave vote would be a disaster, as noted earlier, but I also think it would quite possibly lead to a Corbyn government, as I really think the Leave Tories have underestimated the Black Wednesday style economic vortex that would follow Leave. My ideal if we did vote Leave, I think, would be general consensus that it was a horrible mistake, with Corbyn taking over and getting some genuine negotiations leading to a fresh vote.
I appreciate that it's a minority view here!
Well some of us rather naively supposed than an ex-MP in the Mother of Parliaments would be keen on this democracy lark.
Corbyn can't negotiate his way into his own home past journalists. The idea that he could conduct negotiations with other EU states is laughable.
Can you point me to where it states that in the legislation?
The NP can also obtain confidential information from Doctors Dentists etc without the parents consent.
"It is a bureaucrat’s dream, with its own brand of patronising jargon, such as its goal of GIRFEC (Getting It Right For Every Child) so that every child is SHANARRI — ‘Safe, Healthy, Achieving, Nurtured, Active, Respected, Responsible, Included’.
There is even a SHANARRI song to be sung by Scotland’s hapless youth — one that would make Chairman Mao proud. ‘Hello sunshine, hello blue sky / ‘S-H-A-N-A-R-R-I (repeat) / We’re safe and we’re happy and achieving . . .’ And on and on."
Are the likes of Farage, Johnson, and Duncan Smith on course to destroy the visionary project of Monet, Schumann and De Gasperi? Truly the Vandals at the gate.
I find your hysterical aversion to democracy truly sinister.
Absolutely!
One of the so obnoxious things that I've found about all the Remain economic scare stories is that they treat their view of the effescare tactics. But then, they could never bring themselves to admit that Brexit would set off a domino effect of the whole EU project tumbling down could they?!
And if there was a collapse of the "EU project" in the terms you describe do you think it would destroy or create value for us (and the others)?
Or would you be happy enough to have seen this imperfect but very effective economic and trade area fall apart and have to be put back together inevitably not as well as it is put together now, for all its inefficiencies.
As long as you are in the queue for a kebab, I suppose, all is not lost.
'Very efficient economic and trade area"!
Are you having a laugh? ...common culture. On that basis, the EU is simply not fit for purpose as I explained in a long post below.
Dear god there are hundreds and hundreds of pages of EU directives and implementation protocols concerning financial services in Europe. Trading stocks and shares. The sort of thing that would, in 1975, have been conducted after a long lunch and eased by any number of inducements.
It is a hugely irritating but ultimately well-intentioned and effective step forward in the aim of protecting the consumer (ie you and your pension fund).
But no, you want to go back to 1963, even - forget about 1975 - to recapture the golden age of shady deals and opacity in the stock market.
So you think that all the fake oil, gas and mining companies operating out of 788 790 Finchley Road and its interconnected boiler rooms that are listed on the AIM is in the small private investor's interest?!! Market manipulations have gone on throughout the ages, its nothing new. To pretend that all the EU directives have made markets function better......arguably a lot are functioning a lot worse given the rules are skewed in the favour of big companies that can afford the costs of regulation, with scant or no regard to the interests of smaller and medium sized companies that long term provide the dynamism and economic growth.
Are the likes of Farage, Johnson, and Duncan Smith on course to destroy the visionary project of Monet, Schumann and De Gasperi? Truly the Vandals at the gate.
I find your hysterical aversion to democracy truly sinister.
Absolutely!
One of the so ob scare tactics. But then, they could never bring themselves to admit that Brexit would set off a domino effect of the whole EU project tumbling down could they?!
And if there was a collapse of the "EU project" in the terms you describe do you think it would destroy or create value for us (and the others)?
Or would you be happy enough to have seen this imperfect but very effective economic and trade area fall apart and have to be put back together inevitably not as well as it is put together now, for all its inefficiencies.
As long as you are in the queue for a kebab, I suppose, all is not lost.
Mr. Topping, I'd be quite happy for the UK to belong to an imperfect but effective trade area, in fact I voted to do just that in 1975. What we now have is nothing of the sort and we are threatened with worse.
Did you ever notice how much more ps have got much more complicated over the years. Not to say that some of the EU stuff isn't irritating to say the least, but it is an ok set of agreements with certainly some coverage creep here and there, but nothing IMO to justify throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
I rather think that the EEC, that I voted for, has moved beyond a trading block. I am not sure why a trading community needs, for example a External Action Service and an army to give its foreign policy credibility.
No, Mr. Topping, buying and selling has not got more complex, actually international trade has become much easier since 1975. The EEC/EC/EU has morphed into something that I think is not in the interest of the people of the UK, or anywhere else for that matter.
Ah Llama man youth is wasted on the young. If only we knew at 25 what we know now we'd be happy men :-)
Chaps in suits but without ties are prima facie scoundrels (bet their trousers were too long and their shoes were not polished). Never a good idea to pay any attention to such people.
It's much simpler than that. Anyone in a suit or tie is a prima facie scoundrel.
Apparently Countryfile on Sunday will feature Boris and Dave arguing why the EU is good/is not good for the UK's fishing industry. Should be interesting.
Comments
For the double umlaut, this is what I found on a cursory google search:
á = Alt+160
Á = Alt+181
é = Alt+130
É = Alt+144
í = Alt+161
Í = Alt+214
ó = Alt+162
Ó = Alt+224
ö = Alt+148
Ö = Alt+153
ő = Alt+139
Ő = Alt+138
ú = Alt+163
Ú = Alt+233
ü = Alt+129
Ü = Alt+154
ű = Alt+251
Ű = Alt+235
Might be best to use the symbol inserter, or have a document saved with them all in, rather than remembering all these
Looking at that statement again, it really describes also why I at least feel so disengaged from the EU. I have no influence at all. How does my vote for an MEP influence what happens in the EU? Pfft.
Long term a decent amount of uncertainty leads to more growth. Attempting to abolish uncertainty, to "abolish boom and bust" as you could say is doomed to failure.
Europol said the network was based in Athens and consisted of two criminal groups, one run by Sudanese people and another by Bangladeshis, and 16 people have been arrested in Greece.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36416034
This is a simple case of the ECJ making a ruling on something that should be entirely the role of the national courts to decide. Whichever way they rule they should not be making the ruling in the first place.
As an aside banning headscarfs is just daft. As is banning crucifixes, unless for specific safety reasons (on rigs all jewelry is banned including rings because of the number of injuries caused by them).
Unless Scotland votes to leave, Brexit will be the "buy one get one free" referendum.
In short, the consequences of Brexit include Scottish independence.
Could be a good line for the LEAVE campaign to conflate the EU Commission with FIFA.
Its going to be fascinating to see the mainstream media coverage of this over the next 10 days. They can't really ignore it without opening themselves up to ridicule given Euro 2016. I once saw a great program on how Franco, Mussolini and Hitler used football for their own political ends - I think the CGT have taken a lesson out of their textbook.
I'm going to spill your blood' as he tried to decapitate a Tube passenger with a blunt knife and attack four others in a 'brutal' attack, a court heard today.
Somalia-born Muhiddin Mire, 30, attacked musician Lyle Zimmerman, 56, at Leytonstone Underground station on December 5 and lashed out at anyone else who got in his way, the Old Bailey heard.
The jury was told Mire was 'motivated by revenge' for the bombing of Syria, and after the attack police found images of ISIS hostages having their throats cut and a graph of US and coalition air strikes on his phone.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3617768/Somalian-former-Uber-driver-cut-innocent-Tube-passenger-s-throat-attacked-four-stopped-police-Tasers.html
© Chris Patten
Not to be confused with James St.
Unless of course you are one of those who think these things should be imposed on people against their will.
One of the so obnoxious things that I've found about all the Remain economic scare stories is that they treat their view of the effects of Brexit in an otherwise static world. The effects of Brexit would be dynamic - with Britain leaving lots of other countries would be queueing up to leave the EU - arguably Sweden, Denmark, Hungary and Poland in the front line, and there would be a domino effect thereafter. Simply couching analysis assuming no external effects elsewhere on its own invalidates any of the remain scare tactics. But then, they could never bring themselves to admit that Brexit would set off a domino effect of the whole EU project tumbling down could they?!
Truly this is the most bonkers political event of my lifetime.
http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/markets/article-3162940/JD-Wetherspoon-boss-branded-hypocrite-moaning-paying-staff-living-wage.html
Shadow secretary of state for international development Diane Abbott is among those who travelled to Dover to join the anti-fascist protest and she addressed the crowd.
She told the cheering audience: 'It's 2016, Time for those racist rocks to go. Mr Cameron, tear down those cliffs.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3424299/Neo-Nazi-gangs-daub-swastikas-BLOOD-protest-descends-violent-clashes-police-anti-fascists.html#ixzz4AG2rxYCJ
Has one of the Mail's staff added this, or is she just completely barking?
Now???
This is progress??? This is the EU working???
Ahem.
And they'll never bring themselves to admit that the whole EU project is on the hock with Brexit......that would be their jobs in Brussels and their very livelihoods at risk. They'll do anything and everything to defend that and their current priviledges. Look at how the ECB over the past 17 years have changed the rulebook to defend the Euro - abandon the convergence criteria for new members, abandon the non-bailout clause (you really think the German people would have accepted the Euro without that in the terms in 1999?!!)..........you can't make something work by force without the common consent of the people in the long term. Many politicians have tried over the course of history to circumvent the wishes of the people and it never works in the end. In that sense the Eurocrats are no different. Plus ca change.
Leytonstone knifeman 'suffered delusions' of MI5 pursuit
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36418383
But then they weren't exactly keen to report on it when it occurred either.
Or would you be happy enough to have seen this imperfect but very effective economic and trade area fall apart and have to be put back together inevitably not as well as it is put together now, for all its inefficiencies.
As long as you are in the queue for a kebab, I suppose, all is not lost.
Oh, London has perhaps 100 or so disused stations or station sites. I've visited virtually all of them, at least at street level.
Inertia is a powerful force.
France has had a particularly bad experience. I lived there briefly in the mid 1990s. You had to have your bag searched in every shop and train station due to Algerian terrorism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_Paris_Métro_and_RER_bombings
Be LEAVE!
@KennyFarq: So, "named person" was in operation in Fife at time of Liam Fee's death. And in Fife/Edinburgh at time of Mikaeel Kular's death too?
@KennyFarq: Edinburgh council says it has been operating NP " for a few years". Mikaeel Kular died on Jan 14, 2014. So he might well have had an NP.
Oh...
Are you having a laugh? EU trade has grown much slower since 1973 than it did before those years in the 1960's when we weren't part of the common market as was the case then. A free market in agriculture?......when 3rd world countries are shut out of EU markets. The complete failure of the common fisheries policy (CFP) when you compare the fishing industry across the EU to countries like Iceland which have managed their stocks properly over the years.
And Europe is in long term economic decline relative to the rest of the world. Asia is where the future is going to be post 2030. The natural fit for the peoples of the EU is free trade nation state governments that cover areas of common language and (broadly) common culture. On that basis, the EU is simply not fit for purpose as I explained in a long post below.
That alone was worth living today for!
I suppose it's like looking for logic in a Donald Trump supporter's manifesto.
The world and its trading relationships have got much more complicated over the years. Not to say that some of the EU stuff isn't irritating to say the least, but it is an ok set of agreements with certainly some coverage creep here and there, but nothing IMO to justify throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Although I do believe that the UK royal family are not going to fare well over the next 4 or 5 years when a lot of the dirt comes out.....and I think you know what I'm talking about........along with the collapse and lack of confidence in governments worldwide going into 2020.
But just suppose it did fall apart, and it was seen as worth while to try again. Surely experience would enable it to be put back together better than it is now?
I have seen lots of posts from jubilant Brexiteers about their expectations of panic in the remain camp.
Can someone point me at an actual example?
By all means make them available but it is not the states business to force you to wear them.
Not the case for the EP election.
It is a hugely irritating but ultimately well-intentioned and effective step forward in the aim of protecting the consumer (ie you and your pension fund).
But no, you want to go back to 1963, even - forget about 1975 - to recapture the golden age of shady deals and opacity in the stock market.
No, Mr. Topping, buying and selling has not got more complex, actually international trade has become much easier since 1975. The EEC/EC/EU has morphed into something that I think is not in the interest of the people of the UK, or anywhere else for that matter.
5 audits of the child and their home a year by a social worker until they start school and ongoing audits after that.
Carlisle will have a Scottish refugee crisis by Christmas.....
Corbyn can't negotiate his way into his own home past journalists. The idea that he could conduct negotiations with other EU states is laughable.
"It is a bureaucrat’s dream, with its own brand of patronising jargon, such as its goal of GIRFEC (Getting It Right For Every Child) so that every child is SHANARRI — ‘Safe, Healthy, Achieving, Nurtured, Active, Respected, Responsible, Included’.
There is even a SHANARRI song to be sung by Scotland’s hapless youth — one that would make Chairman Mao proud. ‘Hello sunshine, hello blue sky / ‘S-H-A-N-A-R-R-I (repeat) / We’re safe and we’re happy and achieving . . .’ And on and on."
Read more about the McStasi here:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3617086/The-Stasi-spying-children-s-Orwelllian-new-scheme-State-snooper-child-Scotland-compiling-dossier-family-life-chilling-implications-all.html