Ah diddums, did the nasty man hurt your feelings during the #EUref?
You're like the fucking Lib Dems, shocked to discover the PM fights to win and exactly how few people care about your obsession
It's been of the the funniest aspects of this campaign that PB Tories on the LEAVE side have recoiled in horror at the PM employing the same tactics to win this campaign that he did in the AV and SINDY referendums and 2015 General Election.
They cheered Cameron to the rafters then. No praise was too high, no amount of gratitude was too much and no accolade unworthy. Cameron had seen off voting reform, Salmond's independence threat, Ed and Nick in short measure and delivered a totally unexpected majority government. And more, he provided the EU referendum they craved.
But now it's Boo, Hiss. Dave the EU devil incarnate is the panto villain par excellence.
He's behind you .....
The Tory leavers expected that the PM would be polite and civil with members of his own party, not try and split it down the middle with wildly exaggerated hyperbole about war and famine. He'll quickly discover after the referendum just how small a majority he has in Parliament.
I get the point of trying to preemptively head off a purge but if Remain wins, I'm having a hard time seeing the majority of the Tory parliamentary party voting to ditch the leader who just proved he has the voters on his side, especially since he'll be going soon anyhow. In which case they make their move, Cameron beats them and has a perfect excuse to take revenge on the rebels.
Prominent Conservatives may no longer be thinking rationally.
The Sunday Times: Boris and Gove lash Cameron on immigration ...... Letter accuses PM of ‘corroding public trust’
Expect LEAVE to concentrate on immigration, immigration, immigration non-stop for the final three weeks of the referendum campaign.
Expect the metropolitan elite both in the media and here to go into a tizzy about it and run around calling everyone a RAAAACCCCCIIIST, the voters largely to disagree with them but keep their own counsel.
When the Left Liberal progressive minority go off on one about people complaining about immigration, the bulk of the country will roll their eyes and get on with life... until they vote.
What about the Right liberal minority?
I thought the whole idea of Vote Leave getting the nod was to attract more than just the Faragist anti immigration core vote 30%
Well I'm sure these past quotes won't be mentioned. No sir.
Gove 2013: "The PM has struck exactly the right note on migration"
Boris 2013: "I’m the only politician willing to say he’s pro-immigration"
Response: "Well if he had kept his promise to get immigration down...but it's not possible in the EU...Leave!"
Those quotes I believe were after some bad immigration figures were released
Does 'Bad Immigration figures' mean too many? Funny! I didn't think you were Pro Leave.
No. Bad as in relative to the PM's pledge
The PMs pledge is meaningless when there's 50% youth unemployment in parts of Europe and such widespread wage disparity that professionals in some EU countries can earn more working for minimum wage in the UK than as lawyers and accountants in their home countries. Also he can't stop arranged marriages from the sub continent thanks to European judges.
What is the unemployment rate in the UK I would have thought is more important.
I get the point of trying to preemptively head off a purge but if Remain wins, I'm having a hard time seeing the majority of the Tory parliamentary party voting to ditch the leader who just proved he has the voters on his side, especially since he'll be going soon anyhow. In which case they make their move, Cameron beats them and has a perfect excuse to take revenge on the rebels.
I'm wondering how a new Tory leader and "Leave supporter" is going to address immigration at the next election, given that they have basically said that they can't control it. Perhaps they might pledge another referendum...
Perhaps one of the questions it might ask could be "should killing a leftie count as self-defence"? I'm sure most Peebies think the answer is "yes" - eh, Indigo. Seans Fear & Thomas and the rest of the rat-pack
OK, I know it's not your subheading but the Guardian's, but that is absolute BS.
Firstly, that an economist opines about the economy doesn't mean it follows he votes that way. He may make a judgement politically.
Secondly, I think it should read long-term fall in GDP growth. Considering Leave are majoring on limiting net immigration growth, this should hardly be a surprise to anyone.
Ah diddums, did the nasty man hurt your feelings during the #EUref?
You're like the fucking Lib Dems, shocked to discover the PM fights to win and exactly how few people care about your obsession
It's been of the the funniest aspects of this campaign that PB Tories on the LEAVE side have recoiled in horror at the PM employing the same tactics to win this campaign that he did in the AV and SINDY referendums and 2015 General Election.
They cheered Cameron to the rafters then. No praise was too high, no amount of gratitude was too much and no accolade unworthy. Cameron had seen off voting reform, Salmond's independence threat, Ed and Nick in short measure and delivered a totally unexpected majority government. And more, he provided the EU referendum they craved.
But now it's Boo, Hiss. Dave the EU devil incarnate is the panto villain par excellence.
He's behind you .....
The Tory leavers expected that the PM would be polite and civil with members of his own party, not try and split it down the middle with wildly exaggerated hyperbole about war and famine. He'll quickly discover after the referendum just how small a majority he has in Parliament.
Which just goes to show how totally shambolic the Tory LEAVE hierarchy are. They had all the evidence before them. Baffling, incompetent and bizarre in equal measure. And these are the people who would negotiate for the UK post BREXIT ?
Ed Miliband was 10 or 15 Lib Dem seats away from being Prime Minister.
Under Ed , Labour made the highest gains in votes % [ note: not swing ] for any opposition party in the election after they lost. The Tories under Hague in 2001 did likewise but it was very small. In all other elections since 1951, the opposition party actually lost votes:
Labour [ 1955 ], Tories [ 1966 ], Tories [ 1974 Oct ], Labour [ 1983 ].
As I said Tories 2001 are an exception. It should be considered that Labour 2015 performance was despite losing bucket load of votes in Scotland.
The Sunday Times: Boris and Gove lash Cameron on immigration ...... Letter accuses PM of ‘corroding public trust’
Expect LEAVE to concentrate on immigration, immigration, immigration non-stop for the final three weeks of the referendum campaign.
Expect the metropolitan elite both in the media and here to go into a tizzy about it and run around calling everyone a RAAAACCCCCIIIST, the voters largely to disagree with them but keep their own counsel.
When the Left Liberal progressive minority go off on one about people complaining about immigration, the bulk of the country will roll their eyes and get on with life... until they vote.
What about the Right liberal minority?
I thought the whole idea of Vote Leave getting the nod was to attract more than just the Faragist anti immigration core vote 30%
Well I'm sure these past quotes won't be mentioned. No sir.
Gove 2013: "The PM has struck exactly the right note on migration"
Boris 2013: "I’m the only politician willing to say he’s pro-immigration"
Response: "Well if he had kept his promise to get immigration down...but it's not possible in the EU...Leave!"
Those quotes I believe were after some bad immigration figures were released
Does 'Bad Immigration figures' mean too many? Funny! I didn't think you were Pro Leave.
No. Bad as in relative to the PM's pledge
The PMs pledge is meaningless when there's 50% youth unemployment in parts of Europe and such widespread wage disparity that professionals in some EU countries can earn more working for minimum wage in the UK than as lawyers and accountants in their home countries. Also he can't stop arranged marriages from the sub continent thanks to European judges.
What is the unemployment rate in the UK I would have thought is more important.
Good morning all. For the first time in this pre-referendum period Cameron is being the punchbag instead of doing the punching. This pleases my aching heart as Cammo's name is being trashed on Marr right now.
I get the point of trying to preemptively head off a purge but if Remain wins, I'm having a hard time seeing the majority of the Tory parliamentary party voting to ditch the leader who just proved he has the voters on his side, especially since he'll be going soon anyhow. In which case they make their move, Cameron beats them and has a perfect excuse to take revenge on the rebels.
Prominent Conservatives may no longer be thinking rationally.
Thinking about this, if they were going to make their move, they'd be better off doing it *now*. I don't know what that would do to the referendum but they as things stand they seem to be losing so it wouldn't do them any harm to scramble the chess board.
The Brexit case is not about Economics - whatever they might say. It is about the irrational fear of the foreigner. Therefore, it is about emotion.
The Tory party has always played this game. Thatcher used the word "swamped", Cameron more subtly said "tens of thousands, not hundreds of thousands".
The subliminal message was clear: We will keep Johnny Foreigner out better than Labour can.
When Johnson said that keeping that promise and being in the EU is not compatible, it is clear someone was lying. Boris himself was a Tory candidate. So he lied too !
Anecdote alert. My niece's husband supervises 30-odd welders at a power station on the west coast. He assures me that he will be voting BREXIT and, furthermore, ALL his welders seem similarly inclined.
Ed Miliband was 10 or 15 Lib Dem seats away from being Prime Minister.
Under Ed , Labour made the highest gains in votes % [ note: not swing ] for any opposition party in the election after they lost. The Tories under Hague in 2001 did likewise but it was very small. In all other elections since 1951, the opposition party actually lost votes:
Labour [ 1955 ], Tories [ 1966 ], Tories [ 1974 Oct ], Labour [ 1983 ].
As I said Tories 2001 are an exception. It should be considered that Labour 2015 performance was despite losing bucket load of votes in Scotland.
Given that the Lib Dem vote share fell by 16%, a gain of 4% for Labour in England wasn't great. Left wing Lib Dems returning to Labour helped the party to rack up some huge majorities, and see significant rises in vote share in rural England, but didn't help the party where it mattered.
How much richer do you think we would be if we had joined the Euro ?
We wouldn't.
Obviously.
And yet the same bunch of experts were telling us we had to go in and civilisation would come to an end if we didn't.
In the end DYOR and vote accordingly
I'm voting Remain to ensure peace and prosperity continues in Ireland.
I've been reading a very good biography of Eamon De Valera. There are some very good suggestions from him on how a small offshore island should manage the process of breaking away from a dominant neighbour...
One thing this referendum has shown is that altruism isn't dead.
We have Ukip campaigning for Leave, an action that will render them all redundant.
And we also have the majority of MPs at Westminster and the devolved parliaments campaigning for Remain. If successful, an action which will render them all redundant, although on a longer timescale.
Three cheers for them all.
Dan Hannan has a great poster of himself as Kitchener asking us to sack him
The Sunday Times: Boris and Gove lash Cameron on immigration ...... Letter accuses PM of ‘corroding public trust’
Expect LEAVE to concentrate on immigration, immigration, immigration non-stop for the final three weeks of the referendum campaign.
Expect the metropolitan elite both in the media and here to go into a tizzy about it and run around calling everyone a RAAAACCCCCIIIST, the voters largely to disagree with them but keep their own counsel.
When the Left Liberal progressive minority go off on one about people complaining about immigration, the bulk of the country will roll their eyes and get on with life... until they vote.
What about the Right liberal minority?
I thought the whole idea of Vote Leave getting the nod was to attract more than just the Faragist anti immigration core vote 30%
Well I'm sure these past quotes won't be mentioned. No sir.
Gove 2013: "The PM has struck exactly the right note on migration"
Boris 2013: "I’m the only politician willing to say he’s pro-immigration"
Response: "Well if he had kept his promise to get immigration down...but it's not possible in the EU...Leave!"
Those quotes I believe were after some bad immigration figures were released
Does 'Bad Immigration figures' mean too many? Funny! I didn't think you were Pro Leave.
No. Bad as in relative to the PM's pledge
The PMs pledge is meaningless when there's 50% youth unemployment in parts of Europe and such widespread wage disparity that professionals in some EU countries can earn more working for minimum wage in the UK than as lawyers and accountants in their home countries. Also he can't stop arranged marriages from the sub continent thanks to European judges.
What is the unemployment rate in the UK I would have thought is more important.
One thing this referendum has shown is that altruism isn't dead.
We have Ukip campaigning for Leave, an action that will render them all redundant.
And we also have the majority of MPs at Westminster and the devolved parliaments campaigning for Remain. If successful, an action which will render them all redundant, although on a longer timescale.
Three cheers for them all.
Dan Hannan has a great poster of himself as Kitchener asking us to sack him
Ive noticed a direct correlation between PB getting bad tempered and unpleasant and the lack of cat videos.
The Brexit case is not about Economics - whatever they might say. It is about the irrational fear of the foreigner. Therefore, it is about emotion.
The Tory party has always played this game. Thatcher used the word "swamped", Cameron more subtly said "tens of thousands, not hundreds of thousands".
The subliminal message was clear: We will keep Johnny Foreigner out better than Labour can.
When Johnson said that keeping that promise and being in the EU is not compatible, it is clear someone was lying. Boris himself was a Tory candidate. So he lied too !
Important constitutional decisions should never be about mere economics.
Ah diddums, did the nasty man hurt your feelings during the #EUref?
You're like the fucking Lib Dems, shocked to discover the PM fights to win and exactly how few people care about your obsession
It's been of the the funniest aspects of this campaign that PB Tories on the LEAVE side have recoiled in horror at the PM employing the same tactics to win this campaign that he did in the AV and SINDY referendums and 2015 General Election.
They cheered Cameron to the rafters then. No praise was too high, no amount of gratitude was too much and no accolade unworthy. Cameron had seen off voting reform, Salmond's independence threat, Ed and Nick in short measure and delivered a totally unexpected majority government. And more, he provided the EU referendum they craved.
But now it's Boo, Hiss. Dave the EU devil incarnate is the panto villain par excellence.
He's behind you .....
The Tory leavers expected that the PM would be polite and civil with members of his own party, not try and split it down the middle with wildly exaggerated hyperbole about war and famine. He'll quickly discover after the referendum just how small a majority he has in Parliament.
Which just goes to show how totally shambolic the Tory LEAVE hierarchy are. They had all the evidence before them. Baffling, incompetent and bizarre in equal measure. And these are the people who would negotiate for the UK post BREXIT ?
Hhhmmm.
OH HO!! JackW is getting shirty. JackW is getting frit JackW's ARSE is getting windy JackW's ARSE is really S**t.
One thing this referendum has shown is that altruism isn't dead.
We have Ukip campaigning for Leave, an action that will render them all redundant.
And we also have the majority of MPs at Westminster and the devolved parliaments campaigning for Remain. If successful, an action which will render them all redundant, although on a longer timescale.
Three cheers for them all.
Dan Hannan has a great poster of himself as Kitchener asking us to sack him
I've been reading a very good biography of Eamon De Valera. There are some very good suggestions from him on how a small offshore island should manage the process of breaking away from a dominant neighbour...
Become a republic, Catholic theocracy and neutral country ?
Anecdote alert. My niece's husband supervises 30-odd welders at a power station on the west coast. He assures me that he will be voting BREXIT and, furthermore, ALL his welders seem similarly inclined.
Ah diddums, did the nasty man hurt your feelings during the #EUref?
You're like the fucking Lib Dems, shocked to discover the PM fights to win and exactly how few people care about your obsession
It's been of the the funniest aspects of this campaign that PB Tories on the LEAVE side have recoiled in horror at the PM employing the same tactics to win this campaign that he did in the AV and SINDY referendums and 2015 General Election.
They cheered Cameron to the rafters then. No praise was too high, no amount of gratitude was too much and no accolade unworthy. Cameron had seen off voting reform, Salmond's independence threat, Ed and Nick in short measure and delivered a totally unexpected majority government. And more, he provided the EU referendum they craved.
But now it's Boo, Hiss. Dave the EU devil incarnate is the panto villain par excellence.
He's behind you .....
The Tory leavers expected that the PM would be polite and civil with members of his own party, not try and split it down the middle with wildly exaggerated hyperbole about war and famine. He'll quickly discover after the referendum just how small a majority he has in Parliament.
Which just goes to show how totally shambolic the Tory LEAVE hierarchy are. They had all the evidence before them. Baffling, incompetent and bizarre in equal measure. And these are the people who would negotiate for the UK post BREXIT ?
Hhhmmm.
While I take your point about the Leave hierarchy, I'm not at all convinced that the Remain hierarchy are any better at negotiating on behalf of the UK.
As noted previously, Dave and George are reaping what they sowed on immigration. They were happy to stoke fears and tell fibs about the damage EU immigrants are doing to the UK and now they will lose their referendum as a result. If the PM, the Chancellor and various others spend years telling you how appalling it is so many people are arriving from across the Channel you are going to believe them, whatever the statistics say. And you are not going to notice that the entire fiscal and economic strategy the government is pursuing - and which the Conservative party in parliament and in the country has given its wholehearted support to (with some exceptions) - is based on there being high levels of immigration.
The Tory ministerial Leavers, of course, are extraordinary hypocrites; but in this campaign what does that matter? They have the winning hand.
Anecdote alert. My niece's husband supervises 30-odd welders at a power station on the west coast. He assures me that he will be voting BREXIT and, furthermore, ALL his welders seem similarly inclined.
So Brexit is getting excited with 30 votes.
No, but it's 30 votes that's very welcome; and stop being silly.
As well as sharing the incredulous mirth of others regarding the prospect of Miliband 2, does he even want to be leader again? It's not that long ago he was slaughtered in the polls and resigned.
Corbyn thinking Miliband will help restore his credibility depends on the audience. With Labour? Maybe. With the public? No.
Quite. Reminding everyone who didn't vote Labour in GE2015 why they didn't.
EdM's photocalls with Corbyn are awful - a) he looks at Corbyn as if stuck with an embarrassing scruffy family member b) that he's far too clever to be here anyway and c) can't understand why his colleagues don't admire his intellect enough.
I've been reading a very good biography of Eamon De Valera. There are some very good suggestions from him on how a small offshore island should manage the process of breaking away from a dominant neighbour...
Become a republic, Catholic theocracy and neutral country ?
Gosh, will there be a goodbye ceremony/cocktail reception planned for the UK's MEPs, in the event of a Brexit? When will they lose their ability to claim expenses for their nearly-always-vacant chair in the Parliament(S)?
Ed Miliband was 10 or 15 Lib Dem seats away from being Prime Minister.
Under Ed , Labour made the highest gains in votes % [ note: not swing ] for any opposition party in the election after they lost. The Tories under Hague in 2001 did likewise but it was very small. In all other elections since 1951, the opposition party actually lost votes:
Labour [ 1955 ], Tories [ 1966 ], Tories [ 1974 Oct ], Labour [ 1983 ].
As I said Tories 2001 are an exception. It should be considered that Labour 2015 performance was despite losing bucket load of votes in Scotland.
Ed was an abysmal leader and completely cut-off from the real world. But he is not now the worst leader Labour has ever had. That's how bad Corbyn is.
I've been reading a very good biography of Eamon De Valera. There are some very good suggestions from him on how a small offshore island should manage the process of breaking away from a dominant neighbour...
Become a republic, Catholic theocracy and neutral country ?
Hate to break it to you, but Jacobitism is long gone...
How much richer do you think we would be if we had joined the Euro ?
We wouldn't.
Obviously.
And yet the same bunch of experts were telling us we had to go in and civilisation would come to an end if we didn't.
In the end DYOR and vote accordingly
I'm voting Remain to ensure peace and prosperity continues in Ireland.
I've been reading a very good biography of Eamon De Valera. There are some very good suggestions from him on how a small offshore island should manage the process of breaking away from a dominant neighbour...
For most of his life DeValera screwed Ireland. The place only took off when he was dead.
Ah diddums, did the nasty man hurt your feelings during the #EUref?
You're like the fucking Lib Dems, shocked to discover the PM fights to win and exactly how few people care about your obsession
It's been of the the funniest aspects of this campaign that PB Tories on the LEAVE side have recoiled in horror at the PM employing the same tactics to win this campaign that he did in the AV and SINDY referendums and 2015 General Election.
They cheered Cameron to the rafters then. No praise was too high, no amount of gratitude was too much and no accolade unworthy. Cameron had seen off voting reform, Salmond's independence threat, Ed and Nick in short measure and delivered a totally unexpected majority government. And more, he provided the EU referendum they craved.
But now it's Boo, Hiss. Dave the EU devil incarnate is the panto villain par excellence.
He's behind you .....
The Tory leavers expected that the PM would be polite and civil with members of his own party, not try and split it down the middle with wildly exaggerated hyperbole about war and famine. He'll quickly discover after the referendum just how small a majority he has in Parliament.
Which just goes to show how totally shambolic the Tory LEAVE hierarchy are. They had all the evidence before them. Baffling, incompetent and bizarre in equal measure. And these are the people who would negotiate for the UK post BREXIT ?
Hhhmmm.
The Tories are a complete joke. Incompetent, hypocritical and completely divided. Luckily for them, they are up against Mr Corbyn, so from an electoral standpoint it does not matter. But for the country it is a disaster.
REMAIN is relying for its biggest vote from one group, Labour voters. Its campaign has been fronted by Cameron and Osborne, two people that are amongst the worst people to attract Labour voters. If we view this from the perspective of Labour working class voters, they are being asked to also vote for:- 1. More immigration 2. Keep Cameron and Osborne in office It is just not a good political situation for REMAIN.
Blair is advocating for Remain in the Sunday Times...
While I take your point about the Leave hierarchy, I'm not at all convinced that the Remain hierarchy are any better at negotiating on behalf of the UK.
Quite so Sean.
We really should still have had those hard headed LibDem euro-sceptics in the government to embolden the negotiating team .... Errrr ....
I've been reading a very good biography of Eamon De Valera. There are some very good suggestions from him on how a small offshore island should manage the process of breaking away from a dominant neighbour...
Become a republic, Catholic theocracy and neutral country ?
And break-up.
De Valera didn't even make the Republic a Republic it was Fine Gael.
Anecdote alert. My niece's husband supervises 30-odd welders at a power station on the west coast. He assures me that he will be voting BREXIT and, furthermore, ALL his welders seem similarly inclined.
So Brexit is getting excited with 30 votes.
I'll take the good sense of thirty welders over the opinions of your 500 odd Remain economists any day.
@JananGanesh: Imagine getting to age 51 and still being Andrew Bridgen.
Andrew Bridgen together with Stewart Jackass (late of this parish) are a brace of Conservative MP's for whom the public should enjoy an open season - 1st January - 31st December.
Although to be fair the latter could hardly be termed sport as he is such a total dullard he makes makes Bridgen appear Churchillian in political acumen.
Your party is a complete joke, Mr W. You are just going to have to accept that and thank the Lord for Jeremy Corbyn and his useful idiots.
Ed Miliband was 10 or 15 Lib Dem seats away from being Prime Minister.
Under Ed , Labour made the highest gains in votes % [ note: not swing ] for any opposition party in the election after they lost. The Tories under Hague in 2001 did likewise but it was very small. In all other elections since 1951, the opposition party actually lost votes:
Labour [ 1955 ], Tories [ 1966 ], Tories [ 1974 Oct ], Labour [ 1983 ].
As I said Tories 2001 are an exception. It should be considered that Labour 2015 performance was despite losing bucket load of votes in Scotland.
Ed was an abysmal leader and completely cut-off from the real world. But he is not now the worst leader Labour has ever had. That's how bad Corbyn is.
You need to ask yourself why Labour's members voted for him. What does that say about the candidates he beat and the reasons people join Labour?
Just watched Have I Got News For You. Not good for either side in the referendum when they are being completely ridiculed rather than the usual light ribbing.
Ed Miliband was 10 or 15 Lib Dem seats away from being Prime Minister.
Which would have put the LibDems in the 2015 parliament at between minus 2 and minus 7 .... Even "I Agree With Nick" couldn't quite manage that ....
No Jack, at your very advanced age, yours maths is failing you. Perfectly understandable.
The Lib Dem total would have been 18...23 [ 8+10 = 18 !!!!!!!!!!! ]. Those South West seats where they were only competing against the Tories. The Tories would have won 316 seats then.
Interesting to see Liam Fox speaking on behalf of the Leave campaign on Marr and managing to be authoritative, moderate in tone and quietly reassuring. Also supports Cameron remaining in office even after a Leave win and implicitly critical of Priti's comments on the PM and immigration.
The Tories are a complete joke. Incompetent, hypocritical and completely divided. Luckily for them, they are up against Mr Corbyn, so from an electoral standpoint it does not matter. But for the country it is a disaster.
Your party is a complete joke, Mr W. You are just going to have to accept that and thank the Lord for Jeremy Corbyn and his useful idiots.
You seem to be labouring under the total misconception that I am a member of the Conservative party. I am not and never have been.
Cameron is indeed a lucky general but he is also a ruthless and clever general. Three virtues that any army would be more happy for their commander to enjoy.
REMAIN is relying for its biggest vote from one group, Labour voters. Its campaign has been fronted by Cameron and Osborne, two people that are amongst the worst people to attract Labour voters. If we view this from the perspective of Labour working class voters, they are being asked to also vote for:- 1. More immigration 2. Keep Cameron and Osborne in office It is just not a good political situation for REMAIN.
Blair is advocating for Remain in the Sunday Times...
The Tories are a complete joke. Incompetent, hypocritical and completely divided. Luckily for them, they are up against Mr Corbyn, so from an electoral standpoint it does not matter. But for the country it is a disaster.
Your party is a complete joke, Mr W. You are just going to have to accept that and thank the Lord for Jeremy Corbyn and his useful idiots.
You seem to be labouring under the total misconception that I am a member of the Conservative party. I am not and never have been.
Cameron is indeed a lucky general but he is also a ruthless and clever general. Three virtues that any army would be more happy for their commander to enjoy.
One thing this referendum has shown is that altruism isn't dead.
We have Ukip campaigning for Leave, an action that will render them all redundant.
And we also have the majority of MPs at Westminster and the devolved parliaments campaigning for Remain. If successful, an action which will render them all redundant, although on a longer timescale.
Three cheers for them all.
Dan Hannan has a great poster of himself as Kitchener asking us to sack him
Ive noticed a direct correlation between PB getting bad tempered and unpleasant and the lack of cat videos.
Ed Miliband was 10 or 15 Lib Dem seats away from being Prime Minister.
Under Ed , Labour made the highest gains in votes % [ note: not swing ] for any opposition party in the election after they lost. The Tories under Hague in 2001 did likewise but it was very small. In all other elections since 1951, the opposition party actually lost votes:
Labour [ 1955 ], Tories [ 1966 ], Tories [ 1974 Oct ], Labour [ 1983 ].
As I said Tories 2001 are an exception. It should be considered that Labour 2015 performance was despite losing bucket load of votes in Scotland.
Ed was an abysmal leader and completely cut-off from the real world. But he is not now the worst leader Labour has ever had. That's how bad Corbyn is.
You need to ask yourself why Labour's members voted for him. What does that say about the candidates he beat and the reasons people join Labour?
Yes, the Labour membership will ensure that Labour stays out of office for many more years. By and large, they are comfortably off and not really negatively affected by government policy. As Nick Palmer has explained on here before, Corbyn is an interesting intellectual experiment; and never mind those that Labour is supposed to care about.
I've been reading a very good biography of Eamon De Valera. There are some very good suggestions from him on how a small offshore island should manage the process of breaking away from a dominant neighbour...
Become a republic, Catholic theocracy and neutral country ?
And break-up.
De Valera didn't even make the Republic a Republic it was Fine Gael.
"The ideal Ireland that we would have, the Ireland that we dreamed of, would be the home of a people who valued material wealth only as a basis for right living, of a people who, satisfied with frugal comfort, devoted their leisure to the things of the spirit – a land whose countryside would be bright with cosy homesteads, whose fields and villages would be joyous with the sounds of industry, with the romping of sturdy children, the contest of athletic youths and the laughter of happy maidens, whose firesides would be forums for the wisdom of serene old age. The home, in short, of a people living the life that God desires that men should live ..."
No Jack, at your very advanced age, yours maths is failing you. Perfectly understandable.
The Lib Dem total would have been 18...23 [ 8+10 = 18 !!!!!!!!!!! ]. Those South West seats where they were only competing against the Tories. The Tories would have won 316 seats then.
Quite so. I was having a little fun over your original and slightly ambiguous post.
Still the same auld-bull-shyte from the "Remainians". One wonders how thick these leftists* really are: Whole communities are being undermined by "EU-cackanomics" in African-Spain.
:BOO:
* Or are they 'wannabe' EU-oligarchs or front-men for the Russians....?
Yes, the Labour membership will ensure that Labour stays out of office for many more years. By and large, they are comfortably off and not really negatively affected by government policy. As Nick Palmer has explained on here before, Corbyn is an interesting intellectual experiment; and never mind those that Labour is supposed to care about.
I think we're both trying to be civil to each other, but you're straining my patience when you attribute imaginary quotes to me. I've spent over 40 years working for the Labour Party and the people we both care about, including 13 years working 80 hours a week or so in Parliament. You, so far as I know, contribute with the occasional vote and comment on websites. I should be grateful if you would not attribute to me attitudes that I don't hold.
My view, to recap, is that Labour needs to stand for coherent change in a left-wing direction. That's not an intellectual experiment, it's a necessity to make the effort worthwhile. Having established that, we need to try to win. It's difficult for many reasons, but it's easier having a leadership who stand for something refreshing, as I and most members think is currently the case, than it was last year when I was hard-pressed to say what we actually stood for.
You feel that this puts the cart before the horse. First one must try to win, and then see what reforms can be accommodated in that precondition. It's a perfectly reasonable position that we disagree about. Shall we leave it at that?
I've been reading a very good biography of Eamon De Valera. There are some very good suggestions from him on how a small offshore island should manage the process of breaking away from a dominant neighbour...
Become a republic, Catholic theocracy and neutral country ?
And break-up.
De Valera didn't even make the Republic a Republic it was Fine Gael.
"The ideal Ireland that we would have, the Ireland that we dreamed of, would be the home of a people who valued material wealth only as a basis for right living, of a people who, satisfied with frugal comfort, devoted their leisure to the things of the spirit – a land whose countryside would be bright with cosy homesteads, whose fields and villages would be joyous with the sounds of industry, with the romping of sturdy children, the contest of athletic youths and the laughter of happy maidens, whose firesides would be forums for the wisdom of serene old age. The home, in short, of a people living the life that God desires that men should live ..."
The Tories are a complete joke. Incompetent, hypocritical and completely divided. Luckily for them, they are up against Mr Corbyn, so from an electoral standpoint it does not matter. But for the country it is a disaster.
Your party is a complete joke, Mr W. You are just going to have to accept that and thank the Lord for Jeremy Corbyn and his useful idiots.
You seem to be labouring under the total misconception that I am a member of the Conservative party. I am not and never have been.
Cameron is indeed a lucky general but he is also a ruthless and clever general. Three virtues that any army would be more happy for their commander to enjoy.
You are a supporter. Cameron has been lucky. But in the end his triangulation is going to cost him. He is being hoisted high on his own petard by colleagues who will soon be hoisted high themselves.
@JananGanesh: Imagine getting to age 51 and still being Andrew Bridgen.
Andrew Bridgen together with Stewart Jackass (late of this parish) are a brace of Conservative MP's for whom the public should enjoy an open season - 1st January - 31st December.
Although to be fair the latter could hardly be termed sport as he is such a total dullard he makes makes Bridgen appear Churchillian in political acumen.
General Boles sums it up nicely
Who the fuck is Andrew Bridgen?
Ah diddums, did the nasty man hurt your feelings during the #EUref?
You're like the fucking Lib Dems, shocked to discover the PM fights to win and exactly how few people care about your obsession
It's always easier to attack allies than it is enemies; their defences are lesser in your direction and you usually have far better intelligence. This applies almost as well to allies-until-this-issue. Only problem is that uninhibited attacks on such do end up in you running out of allies and anyone willing to become an ally.
Just watched Have I Got News For You. Not good for either side in the referendum when they are being completely ridiculed rather than the usual light ribbing.
HIGHFY, is I'm afraid, dying on it's feet, if it has any. Becoming more and more unfunny with every edition, Hislop is becoming sloppy and liable to foam at the mouth. Sad really.
STimes reporting the Border Agency has only 3 boats to patrol over 7k miles of our coastline. I've seen three stories just this week re traffickers bringing in illegal migrants/guns using dingies/cruisers into small marinas.
Just watched Have I Got News For You. Not good for either side in the referendum when they are being completely ridiculed rather than the usual light ribbing.
HIGHFY, is I'm afraid, dying on it's feet, if it has any. Becoming more and more unfunny with every edition, Hislop is becoming sloppy and liable to foam at the mouth. Sad really.
I found this week's episode the funniest in a long time.
As incidentally is the cover to this week's Private Eye.
STimes reporting the Border Agency has only 3 boats to patrol over 7k miles of our coastline. I've seen three stories just this week re traffickers bringing in illegal migrants/guns using dingies/cruisers into small marinas.
The Tories are a complete joke. Incompetent, hypocritical and completely divided. Luckily for them, they are up against Mr Corbyn, so from an electoral standpoint it does not matter. But for the country it is a disaster.
Your party is a complete joke, Mr W. You are just going to have to accept that and thank the Lord for Jeremy Corbyn and his useful idiots.
You seem to be labouring under the total misconception that I am a member of the Conservative party. I am not and never have been.
Cameron is indeed a lucky general but he is also a ruthless and clever general. Three virtues that any army would be more happy for their commander to enjoy.
You are a supporter. Cameron has been lucky. But in the end his triangulation is going to cost him. He is being hoisted high on his own petard by colleagues who will soon be hoisted high themselves.
The JackW of a few years ago kept saying that they were a Conservative. On one occasion after they had made many attacks on the Conservatives (in opposition) I queried that JackW about why they said one thing and did another and soon after the attacks stopped.
I believe today’s personal attack on David Cameron by Boris and Gove over immigration and the threat of a vote of no confidence against him by Andrew Bridgen post the referendum is a serious tactical mistake by leave. By turning the debate into immigration it is very likely to be seen as a tacit admission that leave have lost the economic argument (which they have) and that they are playing on people’s fears about ‘foreigners’. It was interesting to see today’s Mail on Sunday being very much pro remain, in stark contrast to the Daily Mail, and also Jacob Rees Mogg stating in an article that once the vote is past the party must come together and accept the people’s verdict. Liam Fox on Marr this morning was very measured and put his case for Brexit with respect and was very competent. He did not agree that this was personal with David Cameron and refuted Andrew Bridgen’s threat of a no confidence vote. His tone gave the impression that he is very likely to be re-instated to a cabinet post the 23rd. It has also been reported that 90% of conservative MP’s just want the vote to be put behind them and for the party to return to governing, this is particularly true of the 2015 intake. There are a number of very angry Brexit conservatives but if they are seriously threatening the government post the vote I would suggest they will be overwhelmed, not only by their own colleagues, but by the Country at large who will be crying out for all this to come to an end. The other factor in the case of a remain vote will be the instant positive effect on markets and the announcement by many companies of billions of pounds of inward investment to the UK that has been delayed due to pre vote uncertainty
I've been reading a very good biography of Eamon De Valera. There are some very good suggestions from him on how a small offshore island should manage the process of breaking away from a dominant neighbour...
Become a republic, Catholic theocracy and neutral country ?
And break-up.
De Valera didn't even make the Republic a Republic it was Fine Gael.
"The ideal Ireland that we would have, the Ireland that we dreamed of, would be the home of a people who valued material wealth only as a basis for right living, of a people who, satisfied with frugal comfort, devoted their leisure to the things of the spirit – a land whose countryside would be bright with cosy homesteads, whose fields and villages would be joyous with the sounds of industry, with the romping of sturdy children, the contest of athletic youths and the laughter of happy maidens, whose firesides would be forums for the wisdom of serene old age. The home, in short, of a people living the life that God desires that men should live ..."
Hmmm
Dave alera Big Society
"The ideal Britain that we would have, the Britain that we dreamed of, would be the home of a people who valued material wealth above all else, of a people who, dissatisfied with frugal comfort, devoted their leisure to the things multinationals can fleece them for – a land whose countryside would be bright with unaffordable properties, whose fields and villages would be joyous with the sounds of wind turbines, with the romping of obese children, the disinterest of youths on their iPhones and the laughter of drunken maidens, whose firesides would be second homes for serene rich oldies. The home, in short, of a people living the life that no way in God;s name I would live as I piss off to the mediterranean...."
You are a supporter. Cameron has been lucky. But in the end his triangulation is going to cost him. He is being hoisted high on his own petard by colleagues who will soon be hoisted high themselves.
I was a critical supporter of the Coalition and would have preferred a continuance. I support Cameron as the best available option and have said previously I'm prepared to give the government a fair wind.
It does seem like Ed is trying to start a comeback tour... Suspect it will come to nothing and he'll finish up on the EU gravy-train like most failed and rejected UK politicians...
Anecdote alert. My niece's husband supervises 30-odd welders at a power station on the west coast. He assures me that he will be voting BREXIT and, furthermore, ALL his welders seem similarly inclined.
What about their dear, old mums? Are they being kept locked in their attics on referendum day?
STimes reporting the Border Agency has only 3 boats to patrol over 7k miles of our coastline. I've seen three stories just this week re traffickers bringing in illegal migrants/guns using dingies/cruisers into small marinas.
Out of interest what are you thinking they'd be doing with lots of boats if they had them?
Yes, the Labour membership will ensure that Labour stays out of office for many more years. about.
I think we're both trying to be civil to each other, but you're straining my patience when you attribute imaginary quotes to me. I've spent over 40 years working for the Labour Party and the people we both care about, including 13 years working 80 hours a week or so in Parliament. You, so far as I know, contribute with the occasional vote and comment on websites. I should be grateful if you would not attribute to me attitudes that I don't hold.
My view, to recap, is that Labour needs to stand for coherent change in a left-wing direction. That's not an intellectual experiment, it's a necessity to make the effort worthwhile. Having established that, we need to try to win. It's difficult for many reasons, but it's easier having a leadership who stand for something refreshing, as I and most members think is currently the case, than it was last year when I was hard-pressed to say what we actually stood for.
You feel that this puts the cart before the horse. First one must try to win, and then see what reforms can be accommodated in that precondition. It's a perfectly reasonable position that we disagree about. Shall we leave it at that?
I am sorry Nick, you did say it was an intellectual exercise. I wish I had kept the quote now. It must have been about week or so ago.
I greatly admire the fact that you have dedicated so much time to public service. While you were doing that I was spending 80 hours and more a week building companies. So I think we have both done our bit.
However, I find it absolutely extraordinary that you would now knowingly gift a divided and useless Conservative party the 2020 election and quite possibly the one after that too. I could accommodate a left-leaning Labour party if it showed any signs of competence and was led by someone who had not surrounded himself with people who at the last election campaigned against the Labour party.
That you are not furious that Corbyn has proved so ineffectual at a time when the country has been crying out for a decent opposition, that you and the membership are not making more demands of him demonstrates that you and the wider membership have reached a point where victory is no longer important. Indeed, you give every sign of actually being happy with Labour's trajectory. And that's before we consider the fact that you seemingly have no problems with a leadership that has spent decades sharing platforms with anti-Semites and anti-democratic, anti-western organisations and individuals.
You should not be angry with me Nick. You should be angry at a party leadership that is leading Labour to oblivion at a time when an alternative to this discredited government has never been more necessary.
Anecdote alert. My niece's husband supervises 30-odd welders at a power station on the west coast. He assures me that he will be voting BREXIT and, furthermore, ALL his welders seem similarly inclined.
What about their dear, old mums? Are they being kept locked in their attics on referendum day?
If you believe LD's nephew-in-law. It may be so: it may also be three or four loud-mouthed bullies and the others keeping their counsel in the interests of a tolerable working environment.
The JackW of a few years ago kept saying that they were a Conservative. On one occasion after they had made many attacks on the Conservatives (in opposition) I queried that JackW about why they said one thing and did another and soon after the attacks stopped.
Your confusion is understandable. Unlike the majority on PB I am not tribal. Essentially I look for the least worst option from a critical standpoint.
Since Thatcher left government I supported Major over Kinnock, Blair over Major, Hague and IDS. Nobody in 2005 and Cameron/Clegg over Brown and Miliband.
I've been reading a very good biography of Eamon De Valera. There are some very good suggestions from him on how a small offshore island should manage the process of breaking away from a dominant neighbour...
Become a republic, Catholic theocracy and neutral country ?
And break-up.
De Valera didn't even make the Republic a Republic it was Fine Gael.
"The ideal Ireland that we would have, the Ireland that we dreamed of, would be the home of a people who valued material wealth only as a basis for right living, of a people who, satisfied with frugal comfort, devoted their leisure to the things of the spirit – a land whose countryside would be bright with cosy homesteads, whose fields and villages would be joyous with the sounds of industry, with the romping of sturdy children, the contest of athletic youths and the laughter of happy maidens, whose firesides would be forums for the wisdom of serene old age. The home, in short, of a people living the life that God desires that men should live ..."
Hmmm
That's last years DUP manifesto.
In the Irish rising of 1798 the Nonconformists were, at least at the start, on the same side as the Catholics. Both were subject to discrimination due to not being Church of Ireland.
The leader of the rebellion was a protestant called Theobald Wolfe Tone.
The government played divide and rule and sucessfully used sectarianism to cause a catholic protestant falling out helping them to defeat the rebellion (it probably would have failed anyway. Brigadier-General C.E. Knox wrote to General Lake (who was responsible for Ulster): "I have arranged... to increase the animosity between the Orangemen and the United Irishmen, or liberty men as they call themselves. Upon that animosity depends the safety of the centre counties of the North." (source Lecky, William Edward Hartpole. A History of England in the Eighteenth Century, Volume VII. D. Appleton And Company, New York, 1890, p. 312.)
The rise of the mainly nonconformist DUP and its eclipsing of the mainly church of Ireland UUP has to be seen in this light and in this light it can be seen how the likes of Ian Paisley were able to work with the likes of Martin McGuinness. DUP protestant nationlalism and Irish nationalism are two sides of the same coin.
After the rebellion pressure & bribes were put on the MPs and lords to vote themselves out of existence in the union of 1801- now seen as a disasrtrous error.
Anecdote alert. My niece's husband supervises 30-odd welders at a power station on the west coast. He assures me that he will be voting BREXIT and, furthermore, ALL his welders seem similarly inclined.
What about their dear, old mums? Are they being kept locked in their attics on referendum day?
If you believe LD's nephew-in-law. It may be so: it may also be three or four loud-mouthed bullies and the others keeping their counsel in the interests of a tolerable working environment.
The entire public sector will be like that.
Full of people who see the impacts but who exist in an environment where it is completely taboo to say anything.
Hate to break it to you, but Jacobitism is long gone...
Please do not encourage the flatuant-fool: I have to pass through Harpenden soon and forgot to step-off a Mile-End for a - Silverman's supplied - gas-mask. *
I believe today’s personal attack on David Cameron by Boris and Gove over immigration and the threat of a vote of no confidence against him by Andrew Bridgen post the referendum is a serious tactical mistake by leave. By turning the debate into immigration it is very likely to be seen as a tacit admission that leave have lost the economic argument (which they have) and that they are playing on people’s fears about ‘foreigners’. It was interesting to see today’s Mail on Sunday being very much pro remain, in stark contrast to the Daily Mail, and also Jacob Rees Mogg stating in an article that once the vote is past the party must come together and accept the people’s verdict. Liam Fox on Marr this morning was very measured and put his case for Brexit with respect and was very competent. He did not agree that this was personal with David Cameron and refuted Andrew Bridgen’s threat of a no confidence vote. His tone gave the impression that he is very likely to be re-instated to a cabinet post the 23rd. It has also been reported that 90% of conservative MP’s just want the vote to be put behind them and for the party to return to governing, this is particularly true of the 2015 intake. There are a number of very angry Brexit conservatives but if they are seriously threatening the government post the vote I would suggest they will be overwhelmed, not only by their own colleagues, but by the Country at large who will be crying out for all this to come to an end. The other factor in the case of a remain vote will be the instant positive effect on markets and the announcement by many companies of billions of pounds of inward investment to the UK that has been delayed due to pre vote uncertainty
Doubt Priti will be back after the reshuffle if Remain win, after today's comments about rich and immigration.
However, as I believe Leave are going to win, then she could be the next Chancellor!
I believe today’s personal attack on David Cameron by Boris and Gove over immigration and the threat of a vote of no confidence against him by Andrew Bridgen post the referendum is a serious tactical mistake by leave. By turning the debate into immigration it is very likely to be seen as a tacit admission that leave have lost the economic argument (which they have) and that they are playing on people’s fears about ‘foreigners’. It was interesting to see today’s Mail on Sunday being very much pro remain, in stark contrast to the Daily Mail, and also Jacob Rees Mogg stating in an article that once the vote is past the party must come together and accept the people’s verdict. Liam Fox on Marr this morning was very measured and put his case for Brexit with respect and was very competent. He did not agree that this was personal with David Cameron and refuted Andrew Bridgen’s threat of a no confidence vote. His tone gave the impression that he is very likely to be re-instated to a cabinet post the 23rd. It has also been reported that 90% of conservative MP’s just want the vote to be put behind them and for the party to return to governing, this is particularly true of the 2015 intake. There are a number of very angry Brexit conservatives but if they are seriously threatening the government post the vote I would suggest they will be overwhelmed, not only by their own colleagues, but by the Country at large who will be crying out for all this to come to an end. The other factor in the case of a remain vote will be the instant positive effect on markets and the announcement by many companies of billions of pounds of inward investment to the UK that has been delayed due to pre vote uncertainty
The personal attacks on Cameron and his Remain team, embellished by the DT headline, will backfire. Immigration is a very important factor but to make personal attacks devalues the argument.
Have you forgotten Economists overwhelming supporting the UK joining the ERM ?. That went well.
Or perhaps most Economists forecasting economic meltdown if we didn't join the Euro,not to mention the three million jobs that would be lost if we didn't join ? That went well.
Comments
And yet the same bunch of experts were telling us we had to go in and civilisation would come to an end if we didn't.
In the end DYOR and vote accordingly
Morning!
Firstly, that an economist opines about the economy doesn't mean it follows he votes that way. He may make a judgement politically.
Secondly, I think it should read long-term fall in GDP growth. Considering Leave are majoring on limiting net immigration growth, this should hardly be a surprise to anyone.
Hhhmmm.
Under Ed , Labour made the highest gains in votes % [ note: not swing ] for any opposition party in the election after they lost. The Tories under Hague in 2001 did likewise but it was very small. In all other elections since 1951, the opposition party actually lost votes:
Labour [ 1955 ], Tories [ 1966 ], Tories [ 1974 Oct ], Labour [ 1983 ].
As I said Tories 2001 are an exception. It should be considered that Labour 2015 performance was despite losing bucket load of votes in Scotland.
For the first time in this pre-referendum period Cameron is being the punchbag instead of doing the punching. This pleases my aching heart as Cammo's name is being trashed on Marr right now.
The Tory party has always played this game. Thatcher used the word "swamped", Cameron more subtly said "tens of thousands, not hundreds of thousands".
The subliminal message was clear: We will keep Johnny Foreigner out better than Labour can.
When Johnson said that keeping that promise and being in the EU is not compatible, it is clear someone was lying. Boris himself was a Tory candidate. So he lied too !
Despite the invading hordes.
Not that anyone is likely to look at the facts.
JackW is getting frit
JackW's ARSE is getting windy
JackW's ARSE is really S**t.
The Tory ministerial Leavers, of course, are extraordinary hypocrites; but in this campaign what does that matter? They have the winning hand.
Lovely. Everyone's rubbish in politics except those nice Messrs Cameron and Osborne, who are golden gods.
EdM's photocalls with Corbyn are awful - a) he looks at Corbyn as if stuck with an embarrassing scruffy family member b) that he's far too clever to be here anyway and c) can't understand why his colleagues don't admire his intellect enough.
What a pair they make.
We really should still have had those hard headed LibDem euro-sceptics in the government to embolden the negotiating team .... Errrr ....
Especially on PB ....
The Lib Dem total would have been 18...23 [ 8+10 = 18 !!!!!!!!!!! ]. Those South West seats where they were only competing against the Tories. The Tories would have won 316 seats then.
Cameron is indeed a lucky general but he is also a ruthless and clever general. Three virtues that any army would be more happy for their commander to enjoy.
Hmmm
http://cherieblair.org/qc/
She will rake it in, I'm afraid.
Still the same auld-bull-shyte from the "Remainians". One wonders how thick these leftists* really are: Whole communities are being undermined by "EU-cackanomics" in African-Spain.
:BOO:
* Or are they 'wannabe' EU-oligarchs or front-men for the Russians....?
My view, to recap, is that Labour needs to stand for coherent change in a left-wing direction. That's not an intellectual experiment, it's a necessity to make the effort worthwhile. Having established that, we need to try to win. It's difficult for many reasons, but it's easier having a leadership who stand for something refreshing, as I and most members think is currently the case, than it was last year when I was hard-pressed to say what we actually stood for.
You feel that this puts the cart before the horse. First one must try to win, and then see what reforms can be accommodated in that precondition. It's a perfectly reasonable position that we disagree about. Shall we leave it at that?
Only problem is that uninhibited attacks on such do end up in you running out of allies and anyone willing to become an ally.
STimes reporting the Border Agency has only 3 boats to patrol over 7k miles of our coastline. I've seen three stories just this week re traffickers bringing in illegal migrants/guns using dingies/cruisers into small marinas.
As incidentally is the cover to this week's Private Eye.
"The ideal Britain that we would have, the Britain that we dreamed of, would be the home of a people who valued material wealth above all else, of a people who, dissatisfied with frugal comfort, devoted their leisure to the things multinationals can fleece them for – a land whose countryside would be bright with unaffordable properties, whose fields and villages would be joyous with the sounds of wind turbines, with the romping of obese children, the disinterest of youths on their iPhones and the laughter of drunken maidens, whose firesides would be second homes for serene rich oldies. The home, in short, of a people living the life that no way in God;s name I would live as I piss off to the mediterranean...."
That's about as fulsome as I'm prepared to go.
I greatly admire the fact that you have dedicated so much time to public service. While you were doing that I was spending 80 hours and more a week building companies. So I think we have both done our bit.
However, I find it absolutely extraordinary that you would now knowingly gift a divided and useless Conservative party the 2020 election and quite possibly the one after that too. I could accommodate a left-leaning Labour party if it showed any signs of competence and was led by someone who had not surrounded himself with people who at the last election campaigned against the Labour party.
That you are not furious that Corbyn has proved so ineffectual at a time when the country has been crying out for a decent opposition, that you and the membership are not making more demands of him demonstrates that you and the wider membership have reached a point where victory is no longer important. Indeed, you give every sign of actually being happy with Labour's trajectory. And that's before we consider the fact that you seemingly have no problems with a leadership that has spent decades sharing platforms with anti-Semites and anti-democratic, anti-western organisations and individuals.
You should not be angry with me Nick. You should be angry at a party leadership that is leading Labour to oblivion at a time when an alternative to this discredited government has never been more necessary.
EICIPM returns to PB. Huzzah!
Since Thatcher left government I supported Major over Kinnock, Blair over Major, Hague and IDS. Nobody in 2005 and Cameron/Clegg over Brown and Miliband.
Pick the bones from that.
I am really enjoying @yanisvaroufakis on #marr. "Having Tony Blair on your campaign is a glass of poison" #marrshow https://t.co/5NmffBqONo
The leader of the rebellion was a protestant called Theobald Wolfe Tone.
The government played divide and rule and sucessfully used sectarianism to cause a catholic protestant falling out helping them to defeat the rebellion (it probably would have failed anyway. Brigadier-General C.E. Knox wrote to General Lake (who was responsible for Ulster): "I have arranged... to increase the animosity between the Orangemen and the United Irishmen, or liberty men as they call themselves. Upon that animosity depends the safety of the centre counties of the North." (source Lecky, William Edward Hartpole. A History of England in the Eighteenth Century, Volume VII. D. Appleton And Company, New York, 1890, p. 312.)
The rise of the mainly nonconformist DUP and its eclipsing of the mainly church of Ireland UUP has to be seen in this light and in this light it can be seen how the likes of Ian Paisley were able to work with the likes of Martin McGuinness. DUP protestant nationlalism and Irish nationalism are two sides of the same coin.
After the rebellion pressure & bribes were put on the MPs and lords to vote themselves out of existence in the union of 1801- now seen as a disasrtrous error.
Full of people who see the impacts but who exist in an environment where it is completely taboo to say anything.
Rotherham on steroids.
* No, not the 1916 Verdun model....
However, as I believe Leave are going to win, then she could be the next Chancellor!
'Economists overwhelmingly reject Brexit in boost for Cameron
Poll shows 88% of 600 experts fear long-term fall in GDP if UK leaves single market, and 82% are alarmed over impact on household income
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/28/economists-reject-brexit-boost-cameron</blockquote'
Have you forgotten Economists overwhelming supporting the UK joining the ERM ?.
That went well.
Or perhaps most Economists forecasting economic meltdown if we didn't join the Euro,not to mention the three million jobs that would be lost if we didn't join ?
That went well.