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  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    For when it gets too serious on here

    https://twitter.com/PlatoSays/status/735776294860816386
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,433

    rcs1000 said:

    What a remarkably unpleasant article by Katie Hopkins.

    If someone said: you can either have Herpes, or be stuck in a lift for an hour with Katie Hopkins, I genuinely don't know which one I'd choose.
    Catching herpes is usually fun, and I can't see how being stuck in a lift with Ms Hopkins can be fun.

    So I vote herpes

    Catching herpes is usually fun, and I can't see how being stuck in a lift with Ms Hopkins can be fun.

    How do you think you got the herpes ?
    I was thinking of genital herpes.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,150

    I cling to the hope that what are witnessing from Boris is a Mohammed Ali-worthy example of rope a dope, letting Cameron and Osborne shoot off all their weaponry before purdah starts, with Boris (tag-teamed with Gove) doing a master class in forensic demolition of the bollocks that Remain's top two have spouted for the past month or more.

    It's a hope.

    Think it a vain hope. I believe that the economic argument has been won and that the majority will be silent remainers with a final count of 58-42
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756

    Sean_F said:

    On topic, Osborne is a like a Phoenix, he rises again when people keep on writing him off.

    Plus he did well at PMQs yesterday, got some zingers in at Labour which cheered up the Tory backbenchers.

    Some turds manage to keep rising to the surface, however hard you shove them down.

    *11%* think he's Prime Ministerial; 65% don't.
    Polls schmolls. They aren't static. I suspect if Remain wins Dave and George will get a boost in their personal polling
    Perhaps Osborne will reach the dizzy heights of 20% approval.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    @RCS1000
    "The UK has been a lot more advanced at pushing energy saving measures than France. While there is some catch up now, new homes in the UK are simply more energy efficient than in France."

    Mr. Robert, I am at a loss with this. We are talking about electricity consumption are we not? I have my home insulated to the hilt, but that doesn't change by one watt my electricity consumption. My computer needs the same amount of power, it still gets dark at the same time, my kettle needs the same amount of power so I can make tea.

    My cousin, a retired vicar, has spent about 30 grand taking his house off line, solar panels on the roof for electricity and a heat exchanger in the garden to provide heating and hot water. He now gets a cheque from the electricity company every quarter rather than a bill and does not have a gas boiler at all*. Now if we had building regs that forced that sort of set up on all new builds I'd concede to you had a point, but we do not.

    *Given his advanced age I really do not know why he bothered. He will never live long enough to recover his investment and their are no children to inherit.

    Pre GE I was at a fracking meeting with some Greenies, they said that solar panels on a small house only cost around £8k and that everyone should have them. I asked where they would get the £8k from. They live in cuckoo land.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Purdah is not going to make a ha'p'orth of difference. The Leave side shouldn't kid themselves.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756

    MikeK said:

    FPT.

    @YBarddCwsc said:

    UKIP does not have the political skills to capitalise on the discontent.

    That is very clear from the Welsh Assembly. UKIP ***could*** have inflicted huge damage on Labour in the Valleys. They didn't ... because Hamilton and Reckless are exactly the wrong type of people to crystallise this discontent. They are from a different world, alien life-forms, to most people in the Valleys.

    UKIP can't evolve from what it is now to where it needs to be.

    My point remains -- if the result for Leave is 45 per cent or more -- then that is an incredible opportunity for someone.

    In politics, if there is a huge opportunity, someone will grasp it.

    After all, Labour were a Eurosceptic party. It was the chancer Blair who made them so vociferously Europhile. A chancer whose scanty and tarnished reputation is about to be shredded some more.
    ------------------------------------
    I concur that at present UKIP doesn't have the political nous or the skills capitalise on the referendum, whatever the result. And that is why I ceased being a member of UKIP.


    Who's the rotter that changed thread without warning? ;)

    UKIP's problem is that Farage mixes Euroscepticism with golf club Toryism. Great for attracting Conservative rebels like Hamilton, Carswell and Reckless but it is an electoral dead-end.
    If you think Carswell is in any way a golf club Tory you are very misinformed. Most of his ideas about modernising our political system would be anathema to the golf club Tory set.
    He told me once that the idea of talking at a golf club dinner was his idea of hell.
    Watching people playing golf is my idea of hell.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    I'm surprised more tories don't like Priti Patel

    Mr. Blackburn, aside from political geeks I very much doubt that many people even know who Priti Patel even is, let alone what she believes.

    I have just tested this theory, I asked Herself (a lifelong Conservative voter and Telegraph reader) what she thought of Priti Patel - the response, "Never heard of her".

    How many people had ever heard of David Cameron before he became leader of the Conservative Party? Precious few, I would suggest.
  • The new Finbarr Saunders award goes to Therese Coffey in HoC responding to question from SNP on election expenses.

    "The Snp like to get their choppers out and about.."
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    F1: piece on the Bianchi legal action has been added to:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/36386227

    Must say my first instinct is that it was a tragic accident, and that motorsport's inherently dangerous. The line about the family not wanting the blame to lie with Bianchi is perhaps an extra factor (I wonder what would happen if the bodies being sued stated Bianchi was not responsible).
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,150

    @RCS1000
    "The UK has been a lot more advanced at pushing energy saving measures than France. While there is some catch up now, new homes in the UK are simply more energy efficient than in France."

    Mr. Robert, I am at a loss with this. We are talking about electricity consumption are we not? I have my home insulated to the hilt, but that doesn't change by one watt my electricity consumption. My computer needs the same amount of power, it still gets dark at the same time, my kettle needs the same amount of power so I can make tea.

    My cousin, a retired vicar, has spent about 30 grand taking his house off line, solar panels on the roof for electricity and a heat exchanger in the garden to provide heating and hot water. He now gets a cheque from the electricity company every quarter rather than a bill and does not have a gas boiler at all*. Now if we had building regs that forced that sort of set up on all new builds I'd concede to you had a point, but we do not.

    *Given his advanced age I really do not know why he bothered. He will never live long enough to recover his investment and their are no children to inherit.

    Pre GE I was at a fracking meeting with some Greenies, they said that solar panels on a small house only cost around £8k and that everyone should have them. I asked where they would get the £8k from. They live in cuckoo land.
    My panels have been on my roof for 15 months and cost £6.500 and have returned nearly 10%. The installation is a huge success with inflation proved payments for 20 years and the return on capital compared to a savings account is a no brainer. However had the installation costs been borrowed it would not have been such a success
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Mr. F, one quite agrees on golf.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    I'm surprised more tories don't like Priti Patel

    Mr. Blackburn, aside from political geeks I very much doubt that many people even know who Priti Patel even is, let alone what she believes.

    I have just tested this theory, I asked Herself (a lifelong Conservative voter and Telegraph reader) what she thought of Priti Patel - the response, "Never heard of her".

    How many people had ever heard of David Cameron before he became leader of the Conservative Party? Precious few, I would suggest.
    I've come to terms with the fact that the conservative party has changed, I can't see me ever voting tory again. It used to be full of the likes of Priti, now its just a larger version of the Liberal Democrats. I don't have a clue what it stands for.

    Although I've never met your good lady I'm pretty certain she'd prefer Priti to the likes of Matt Hancock.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726

    @RCS1000
    "The UK has been a lot more advanced at pushing energy saving measures than France. While there is some catch up now, new homes in the UK are simply more energy efficient than in France."

    Mr. Robert, I am at a loss with this. We are talking about electricity consumption are we not? I have my home insulated to the hilt, but that doesn't change by one watt my electricity consumption. My computer needs the same amount of power, it still gets dark at the same time, my kettle needs the same amount of power so I can make tea.

    My cousin, a retired vicar, has spent about 30 grand taking his house off line, solar panels on the roof for electricity and a heat exchanger in the garden to provide heating and hot water. He now gets a cheque from the electricity company every quarter rather than a bill and does not have a gas boiler at all*. Now if we had building regs that forced that sort of set up on all new builds I'd concede to you had a point, but we do not.

    *Given his advanced age I really do not know why he bothered. He will never live long enough to recover his investment and their are no children to inherit.

    Pre GE I was at a fracking meeting with some Greenies, they said that solar panels on a small house only cost around £8k and that everyone should have them. I asked where they would get the £8k from. They live in cuckoo land.
    What we should be doing is insisting that every new build in Britain has solar panels on the roof. The economies of scale would slash the cost and in the grand scheme of things an extra couple of thousand pounds on a £200,000 house is tiny.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Sean_F said:

    Watching people playing golf is my idea of hell.

    Yes, even worse than watching dressage, where at least you have the faint hope that the horse might suddently get frightened and bolt.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    @RCS1000
    "The UK has been a lot more advanced at pushing energy saving measures than France. While there is some catch up now, new homes in the UK are simply more energy efficient than in France."

    Mr. Robert, I am at a loss with this. We are talking about electricity consumption are we not? I have my home insulated to the hilt, but that doesn't change by one watt my electricity consumption. My computer needs the same amount of power, it still gets dark at the same time, my kettle needs the same amount of power so I can make tea.

    My cousin, a retired vicar, has spent about 30 grand taking his house off line, solar panels on the roof for electricity and a heat exchanger in the garden to provide heating and hot water. He now gets a cheque from the electricity company every quarter rather than a bill and does not have a gas boiler at all*. Now if we had building regs that forced that sort of set up on all new builds I'd concede to you had a point, but we do not.

    *Given his advanced age I really do not know why he bothered. He will never live long enough to recover his investment and their are no children to inherit.

    Pre GE I was at a fracking meeting with some Greenies, they said that solar panels on a small house only cost around £8k and that everyone should have them. I asked where they would get the £8k from. They live in cuckoo land.
    What we should be doing is insisting that every new build in Britain has solar panels on the roof. The economies of scale would slash the cost and in the grand scheme of things an extra couple of thousand pounds on a £200,000 house is tiny.
    Agree entirely
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,150

    @RCS1000
    "The UK has been a lot more advanced at pushing energy saving measures than France. While there is some catch up now, new homes in the UK are simply more energy efficient than in France."

    Mr. Robert, I am at a loss with this. We are talking about electricity consumption are we not? I have my home insulated to the hilt, but that doesn't change by one watt my electricity consumption. My computer needs the same amount of power, it still gets dark at the same time, my kettle needs the same amount of power so I can make tea.

    My cousin, a retired vicar, has spent about 30 grand taking his house off line, solar panels on the roof for electricity and a heat exchanger in the garden to provide heating and hot water. He now gets a cheque from the electricity company every quarter rather than a bill and does not have a gas boiler at all*. Now if we had building regs that forced that sort of set up on all new builds I'd concede to you had a point, but we do not.

    *Given his advanced age I really do not know why he bothered. He will never live long enough to recover his investment and their are no children to inherit.

    Pre GE I was at a fracking meeting with some Greenies, they said that solar panels on a small house only cost around £8k and that everyone should have them. I asked where they would get the £8k from. They live in cuckoo land.
    What we should be doing is insisting that every new build in Britain has solar panels on the roof. The economies of scale would slash the cost and in the grand scheme of things an extra couple of thousand pounds on a £200,000 house is tiny.
    Absolutely agree
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Voodoo but big sample

    'An online survey of 2,016 Netmums users found that 47% were planning to vote to leave the European Union, while just 36% wanted to stay and 17% were still unsure about how they would be voting, indicating that it’s women (and mums) who could be the key ‘swing voters’...

    https://uk.style.yahoo.com/post/144949704119/british-mums-are-backing-brexit-to-secure-a-better
  • Is Joe Biden patiently waiting in the wings for Hillary to falter?

    He looks to be the obvious choice to become the Democratic candidate should her candidacy implode, which looks distinctly possible.
    Skybet offer the best odds on such an eventuality at 40/1.
    I'm on!
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    @RCS1000
    "The UK has been a lot more advanced at pushing energy saving measures than France. While there is some catch up now, new homes in the UK are simply more energy efficient than in France."

    Mr. Robert, I am at a loss with this. We are talking about electricity consumption are we not? I have my home insulated to the hilt, but that doesn't change by one watt my electricity consumption. My computer needs the same amount of power, it still gets dark at the same time, my kettle needs the same amount of power so I can make tea.

    My cousin, a retired vicar, has spent about 30 grand taking his house off line, solar panels on the roof for electricity and a heat exchanger in the garden to provide heating and hot water. He now gets a cheque from the electricity company every quarter rather than a bill and does not have a gas boiler at all*. Now if we had building regs that forced that sort of set up on all new builds I'd concede to you had a point, but we do not.

    *Given his advanced age I really do not know why he bothered. He will never live long enough to recover his investment and their are no children to inherit.

    Pre GE I was at a fracking meeting with some Greenies, they said that solar panels on a small house only cost around £8k and that everyone should have them. I asked where they would get the £8k from. They live in cuckoo land.
    What we should be doing is insisting that every new build in Britain has solar panels on the roof. The economies of scale would slash the cost and in the grand scheme of things an extra couple of thousand pounds on a £200,000 house is tiny.
    Very good idea.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,790
    Not sure if this has been linked to before, but it's very good on Labour's comfort zone approach and why it's so self-defeating:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/25/labour-answers-lie-in-losses-not-victories

    Expect the party's members and leaders to largely ignore it in favour of self-congratulation and impotent opposition.
  • So Boris is having such a terrible referendum when he TOPS Cameron etc on trust and his Leadership ratings compared to Osborne are typically 10 times the level of regard that Osborne achieves. Cameron and Osborne would be glad to have Boris's ratings. FFS

    I do not have a cent on Boris for Leader. I may do so since better odds are becoming available.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    @RCS1000
    "The UK has been a lot more advanced at pushing energy saving measures than France. While there is some catch up now, new homes in the UK are simply more energy efficient than in France."

    Mr. Robert, I am at a loss with this. We are talking about electricity consumption are we not? I have my home insulated to the hilt, but that doesn't change by one watt my electricity consumption. My computer needs the same amount of power, it still gets dark at the same time, my kettle needs the same amount of power so I can make tea.

    My cousin, a retired vicar, has spent about 30 grand taking his house off line, solar panels on the roof for electricity and a heat exchanger in the garden to provide heating and hot water. He now gets a cheque from the electricity company every quarter rather than a bill and does not have a gas boiler at all*. Now if we had building regs that forced that sort of set up on all new builds I'd concede to you had a point, but we do not.

    *Given his advanced age I really do not know why he bothered. He will never live long enough to recover his investment and their are no children to inherit.

    Pre GE I was at a fracking meeting with some Greenies, they said that solar panels on a small house only cost around £8k and that everyone should have them. I asked where they would get the £8k from. They live in cuckoo land.
    What we should be doing is insisting that every new build in Britain has solar panels on the roof. The economies of scale would slash the cost and in the grand scheme of things an extra couple of thousand pounds on a £200,000 house is tiny.
    How will we all cope with no electricity at night?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896

    @RCS1000
    "The UK has been a lot more advanced at pushing energy saving measures than France. While there is some catch up now, new homes in the UK are simply more energy efficient than in France."

    Mr. Robert, I am at a loss with this. We are talking about electricity consumption are we not? I have my home insulated to the hilt, but that doesn't change by one watt my electricity consumption. My computer needs the same amount of power, it still gets dark at the same time, my kettle needs the same amount of power so I can make tea.

    My cousin, a retired vicar, has spent about 30 grand taking his house off line, solar panels on the roof for electricity and a heat exchanger in the garden to provide heating and hot water. He now gets a cheque from the electricity company every quarter rather than a bill and does not have a gas boiler at all*. Now if we had building regs that forced that sort of set up on all new builds I'd concede to you had a point, but we do not.

    *Given his advanced age I really do not know why he bothered. He will never live long enough to recover his investment and their are no children to inherit.

    I agree Mr L. Our major energy saving last year resulted from a couple of extended holidays, which, because we used planes and things probably saved, in the great scheme of things, nothing. Did reduce our fuel bills though!
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726

    @RCS1000
    "The UK has been a lot more advanced at pushing energy saving measures than France. While there is some catch up now, new homes in the UK are simply more energy efficient than in France."

    Mr. Robert, I am at a loss with this. We are talking about electricity consumption are we not? I have my home insulated to the hilt, but that doesn't change by one watt my electricity consumption. My computer needs the same amount of power, it still gets dark at the same time, my kettle needs the same amount of power so I can make tea.

    My cousin, a retired vicar, has spent about 30 grand taking his house off line, solar panels on the roof for electricity and a heat exchanger in the garden to provide heating and hot water. He now gets a cheque from the electricity company every quarter rather than a bill and does not have a gas boiler at all*. Now if we had building regs that forced that sort of set up on all new builds I'd concede to you had a point, but we do not.

    *Given his advanced age I really do not know why he bothered. He will never live long enough to recover his investment and their are no children to inherit.

    Pre GE I was at a fracking meeting with some Greenies, they said that solar panels on a small house only cost around £8k and that everyone should have them. I asked where they would get the £8k from. They live in cuckoo land.
    What we should be doing is insisting that every new build in Britain has solar panels on the roof. The economies of scale would slash the cost and in the grand scheme of things an extra couple of thousand pounds on a £200,000 house is tiny.
    Agree entirely
    As an aside this is particular bug bear of mine given that I am not allowed to have solar panels on my house because it is listed.

    I understand entirely the reasoning and would not want the house to be damaged or diminished in any way but it is still rather frustrating.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Is Joe Biden patiently waiting in the wings for Hillary to falter?

    He looks to be the obvious choice to become the Democratic candidate should her candidacy implode, which looks distinctly possible.
    Skybet offer the best odds on such an eventuality at 40/1.
    I'm on!

    Why not Bernie?
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    @RCS1000
    "The UK has been a lot more advanced at pushing energy saving measures than France. While there is some catch up now, new homes in the UK are simply more energy efficient than in France."

    Mr. Robert, I am at a loss with this. We are talking about electricity consumption are we not? I have my home insulated to the hilt, but that doesn't change by one watt my electricity consumption. My computer needs the same amount of power, it still gets dark at the same time, my kettle needs the same amount of power so I can make tea.

    My cousin, a retired vicar, has spent about 30 grand taking his house off line, solar panels on the roof for electricity and a heat exchanger in the garden to provide heating and hot water. He now gets a cheque from the electricity company every quarter rather than a bill and does not have a gas boiler at all*. Now if we had building regs that forced that sort of set up on all new builds I'd concede to you had a point, but we do not.

    *Given his advanced age I really do not know why he bothered. He will never live long enough to recover his investment and their are no children to inherit.

    Pre GE I was at a fracking meeting with some Greenies, they said that solar panels on a small house only cost around £8k and that everyone should have them. I asked where they would get the £8k from. They live in cuckoo land.
    My panels have been on my roof for 15 months and cost £6.500 and have returned nearly 10%. The installation is a huge success with inflation proved payments for 20 years and the return on capital compared to a savings account is a no brainer. However had the installation costs been borrowed it would not have been such a success
    It sounds like it would have made sense as a leveraged purchase at that return rate. The Green Deal seems to have been a massive fail precisely because sensibly priced debt financed secured on the returns from energy saving or generating equipment never became available - it's still not completely clear why there hasn't been more of an aggressive focus on this from the banking sector though I guess the difficulty of securing the return in the event of a house sale may have been a big concern.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Voodoo but big sample

    'An online survey of 2,016 Netmums users found that 47% were planning to vote to leave the European Union, while just 36% wanted to stay and 17% were still unsure about how they would be voting, indicating that it’s women (and mums) who could be the key ‘swing voters’...

    https://uk.style.yahoo.com/post/144949704119/british-mums-are-backing-brexit-to-secure-a-better

    Interesting, I was told on here last week that women are more likely to vote.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Mr. Putney, I put a tiny sum on McLaren to come top in points at Monaco (41). That said, the first practice pace looks dire.

    Reasoning was that McLaren were third fastest in the twisty final sector of Spain, and a third fastest car shouldn't be 41 (third in betting odds was Ferrari, at 5.5).
  • Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    On topic, Osborne is a like a Phoenix, he rises again when people keep on writing him off.

    Plus he did well at PMQs yesterday, got some zingers in at Labour which cheered up the Tory backbenchers.

    Some turds manage to keep rising to the surface, however hard you shove them down.

    *11%* think he's Prime Ministerial; 65% don't.
    Polls schmolls. They aren't static. I suspect if Remain wins Dave and George will get a boost in their personal polling
    Perhaps Osborne will reach the dizzy heights of 20% approval.
    Or that his "seen as a Leader" rating moves up from 2% to 4%?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,726
    edited May 2016

    @RCS1000
    "The UK has been a lot more advanced at pushing energy saving measures than France. While there is some catch up now, new homes in the UK are simply more energy efficient than in France."

    Mr. Robert, I am at a loss with this. We are talking about electricity consumption are we not? I have my home insulated to the hilt, but that doesn't change by one watt my electricity consumption. My computer needs the same amount of power, it still gets dark at the same time, my kettle needs the same amount of power so I can make tea.

    My cousin, a retired vicar, has spent about 30 grand taking his house off line, solar panels on the roof for electricity and a heat exchanger in the garden to provide heating and hot water. He now gets a cheque from the electricity company every quarter rather than a bill and does not have a gas boiler at all*. Now if we had building regs that forced that sort of set up on all new builds I'd concede to you had a point, but we do not.

    *Given his advanced age I really do not know why he bothered. He will never live long enough to recover his investment and their are no children to inherit.

    Pre GE I was at a fracking meeting with some Greenies, they said that solar panels on a small house only cost around £8k and that everyone should have them. I asked where they would get the £8k from. They live in cuckoo land.
    What we should be doing is insisting that every new build in Britain has solar panels on the roof. The economies of scale would slash the cost and in the grand scheme of things an extra couple of thousand pounds on a £200,000 house is tiny.
    How will we all cope with no electricity at night?
    Pardon? What does having solar panels on every new build have to do with no electricity at night? No one is suggesting it should be the sole source of energy. Just that it would be a very good way to reduce consumption from the grid. This is not an either/or scenario.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    @RCS1000
    "The UK has been a lot more advanced at pushing energy saving measures than France. While there is some catch up now, new homes in the UK are simply more energy efficient than in France."

    Mr. Robert, I am at a loss with this. We are talking about electricity consumption are we not? I have my home insulated to the hilt, but that doesn't change by one watt my electricity consumption. My computer needs the same amount of power, it still gets dark at the same time, my kettle needs the same amount of power so I can make tea.

    My cousin, a retired vicar, has spent about 30 grand taking his house off line, solar panels on the roof for electricity and a heat exchanger in the garden to provide heating and hot water. He now gets a cheque from the electricity company every quarter rather than a bill and does not have a gas boiler at all*. Now if we had building regs that forced that sort of set up on all new builds I'd concede to you had a point, but we do not.

    *Given his advanced age I really do not know why he bothered. He will never live long enough to recover his investment and their are no children to inherit.

    Pre GE I was at a fracking meeting with some Greenies, they said that solar panels on a small house only cost around £8k and that everyone should have them. I asked where they would get the £8k from. They live in cuckoo land.
    My panels have been on my roof for 15 months and cost £6.500 and have returned nearly 10%. The installation is a huge success with inflation proved payments for 20 years and the return on capital compared to a savings account is a no brainer. However had the installation costs been borrowed it would not have been such a success
    We are currently thinking of following our cousin on this. We have a large South-facing roof an electricity bill that averages about £250 a quarter and a son to inherit. If we do not move, which is the other plan we are still mulling over, then we probably will do so.

    However, I am at a loss to understand why the building regulations have not been changed to make solar panels and heat exchangers compulsory on all new builds.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited May 2016

    Is Joe Biden patiently waiting in the wings for Hillary to falter?

    He looks to be the obvious choice to become the Democratic candidate should her candidacy implode, which looks distinctly possible.
    Skybet offer the best odds on such an eventuality at 40/1.
    I'm on!

    Not sure how the mechanics of that would work, but it's true that if she did implode and if a way could be found, he'd be the obvious choice.

    <brag mode> I'm on at 800/1, though I've laid off a bit. </brag mode>
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591

    The campaign from both sides has been thoroughly depressing and just makes you want it to go away. I do not think anyone has enhanced their reputation and on something as important as this is it should makes all of us shake our heads in dismay. I read Max Hastings article in today's Daily Mail and it is a good read and virtually encapsulates my own view, as as less than enthusiastic remainer. It does seem that there is no appetite for the EU but also there are big doubts with leave singularly failing to paint a unified picture of how we could achieve a successful Brexit. Leave have had long enough to formulate a Norway style deal with some contribution and free movement of labour, but regaining control and sovereignty. If this proposition had been put forward from day one I am fairly certain I would have voted to leave but I am not prepared to 'take the leap in the dark' only to find that the Norway style deal is agreed and that there will be little difference in the ability to control immigration. Leave say this is our last chance but the EU will face disaster on many fronts in the coming months and years and it is incumbent on eurosceptics to plan for the day when they will get a further opportunity, which may well be supported by the majority.

    It's interesting - for those of us old enough to remember - to contrast the leadership of both sides in this campaign with the 1975 referendum. At that time the leaders of both sides - Jenkins and Heath for In and Benn, Foot and Powell for Out - had spent many years putting forward their respective cases and clearly spoke from a deep and long-held conviction. No one could possibly accuse them of being motivated by short-term careerist considerations - in fact many of them probably harmed their future careers by the positions they took at that time.

    This time however we Cameron and Johnson - two vacuous chancers who believe only in themselves. Not surprisingly the campaign has degenerated into a competition of insults and absurd exaggerations - on both sides.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    On topic, Osborne is a like a Phoenix, he rises again when people keep on writing him off.

    Plus he did well at PMQs yesterday, got some zingers in at Labour which cheered up the Tory backbenchers.

    Some turds manage to keep rising to the surface, however hard you shove them down.

    *11%* think he's Prime Ministerial; 65% don't.
    Polls schmolls. They aren't static. I suspect if Remain wins Dave and George will get a boost in their personal polling
    Perhaps Osborne will reach the dizzy heights of 20% approval.
    Or just double digits for Leaderships.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,150

    So Boris is having such a terrible referendum when he TOPS Cameron etc on trust and his Leadership ratings compared to Osborne are typically 10 times the level of regard that Osborne achieves. Cameron and Osborne would be glad to have Boris's ratings. FFS

    I do not have a cent on Boris for Leader. I may do so since better odds are becoming available.

    Everyone is having a terrible referendum. The ratings will be interesting come the Autumn as the aftermath of the vote becomes apparent
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    I'm surprised more tories don't like Priti Patel

    Mr. Blackburn, aside from political geeks I very much doubt that many people even know who Priti Patel even is, let alone what she believes.

    I have just tested this theory, I asked Herself (a lifelong Conservative voter and Telegraph reader) what she thought of Priti Patel - the response, "Never heard of her".

    How many people had ever heard of David Cameron before he became leader of the Conservative Party? Precious few, I would suggest.
    I've come to terms with the fact that the conservative party has changed, I can't see me ever voting tory again. It used to be full of the likes of Priti, now its just a larger version of the Liberal Democrats. I don't have a clue what it stands for.

    Although I've never met your good lady I'm pretty certain she'd prefer Priti to the likes of Matt Hancock.
    Matt Hancock? That foul weasely fellow that often appears on the Daily Politics? Ugh!!!!
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    @RCS1000
    "The UK has been a lot more advanced at pushing energy saving measures than France. While there is some catch up now, new homes in the UK are simply more energy efficient than in France."

    Mr. Robert, I am at a loss with this. We are talking about electricity consumption are we not? I have my home insulated to the hilt, but that doesn't change by one watt my electricity consumption. My computer needs the same amount of power, it still gets dark at the same time, my kettle needs the same amount of power so I can make tea.

    My cousin, a retired vicar, has spent about 30 grand taking his house off line, solar panels on the roof for electricity and a heat exchanger in the garden to provide heating and hot water. He now gets a cheque from the electricity company every quarter rather than a bill and does not have a gas boiler at all*. Now if we had building regs that forced that sort of set up on all new builds I'd concede to you had a point, but we do not.

    *Given his advanced age I really do not know why he bothered. He will never live long enough to recover his investment and their are no children to inherit.

    Pre GE I was at a fracking meeting with some Greenies, they said that solar panels on a small house only cost around £8k and that everyone should have them. I asked where they would get the £8k from. They live in cuckoo land.
    What we should be doing is insisting that every new build in Britain has solar panels on the roof. The economies of scale would slash the cost and in the grand scheme of things an extra couple of thousand pounds on a £200,000 house is tiny.
    Agree entirely
    As an aside this is particular bug bear of mine given that I am not allowed to have solar panels on my house because it is listed.

    I understand entirely the reasoning and would not want the house to be damaged or diminished in any way but it is still rather frustrating.
    Our planning laws are a shambles, non job creation, it serves little other purpose.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited May 2016
    Oh my word - James Brokenshire is AWFUL on Sky talking about immigration.

    He looks really weird and spouting obvious bollocks.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,567

    Is Joe Biden patiently waiting in the wings for Hillary to falter?

    He looks to be the obvious choice to become the Democratic candidate should her candidacy implode, which looks distinctly possible.
    Skybet offer the best odds on such an eventuality at 40/1.
    I'm on!

    Not sure how the mechanics of that would work, but it's true that if she did implode and if a way could be found, he'd be the obvious choice.

    <brag mode> I'm on at 800/1, though I've laid off a bit. </brag mode>
    If you are not on Biden, at least for a couple of quid, then now's the time IMHO. Insurance bet.
  • @RCS1000
    My cousin, a retired vicar, has spent about 30 grand taking his house off line, solar panels on the roof for electricity and a heat exchanger in the garden to provide heating and hot water. He now gets a cheque from the electricity company every quarter rather than a bill and does not have a gas boiler at all*. Now if we had building regs that forced that sort of set up on all new builds I'd concede to you had a point, but we do not.
    *Given his advanced age I really do not know why he bothered. He will never live long enough to recover his investment and their are no children to inherit.

    The property may also prove more difficult to sell unless the advice of a good lawyer was used. A conveyancing solicitor I know says this is a ticking time bomb.
  • Oh my word - James Brokenshire is AWFUL on Sky talking about immigration.
    He looks really weird and spouting obvious bollocks.

    Long thought of him as a sub standard minister, a bed blocker for better talent on the back benches and more junior ranks. Good news for LEAVE the more talk is on immigration.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,150

    The campaign from both sides has been thoroughly depressing and just makes you want it to go away. I do not think anyone has enhanced their reputation and on something as important as this is it should makes all of us shake our heads in dismay. I read Max Hastings article in today's Daily Mail and it is a good read and virtually encapsulates my own view, as as less than enthusiastic remainer. It does seem that there is no appetite for the EU but also there are big doubts with leave singularly failing to paint a unified picture of how we could achieve a successful Brexit. Leave have had long enough to formulate a Norway style deal with some contribution and free movement of labour, but regaining control and sovereignty. If this proposition had been put forward from day one I am fairly certain I would have voted to leave but I am not prepared to 'take the leap in the dark' only to find that the Norway style deal is agreed and that there will be little difference in the ability to control immigration. Leave say this is our last chance but the EU will face disaster on many fronts in the coming months and years and it is incumbent on eurosceptics to plan for the day when they will get a further opportunity, which may well be supported by the majority.

    It's interesting - for those of us old enough to remember - to contrast the leadership of both sides in this campaign with the 1975 referendum. At that time the leaders of both sides - Jenkins and Heath for In and Benn, Foot and Powell for Out - had spent many years putting forward their respective cases and clearly spoke from a deep and long-held conviction. No one could possibly accuse them of being motivated by short-term careerist considerations - in fact many of them probably harmed their future careers by the positions they took at that time.

    This time however we Cameron and Johnson - two vacuous chancers who believe only in themselves. Not surprisingly the campaign has degenerated into a competition of insults and absurd exaggerations - on both sides.
    I genuinely believe no one is content with the EU, even if we vote to remain and the post referendum UK EU delegation need to take a hard line Eurosceptic position and gather support from other Countries for fundamental change
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,266

    I'm surprised more tories don't like Priti Patel

    Mr. Blackburn, aside from political geeks I very much doubt that many people even know who Priti Patel even is, let alone what she believes.

    I have just tested this theory, I asked Herself (a lifelong Conservative voter and Telegraph reader) what she thought of Priti Patel - the response, "Never heard of her".

    How many people had ever heard of David Cameron before he became leader of the Conservative Party? Precious few, I would suggest.
    I don't think that's necessarily an issue. A blank slate can be a good thing.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    The campaign from both sides has been thoroughly depressing and just makes you want it to go away. I do not think anyone has enhanced their reputation and on something as important as this is it should makes all of us shake our heads in dismay. I read Max Hastings article in today's Daily Mail and it is a good read and virtually encapsulates my own view, as as less than enthusiastic remainer. It does seem that there is no appetite for the EU but also there are big doubts with leave singularly failing to paint a unified picture of how we could achieve a successful Brexit. Leave have had long enough to formulate a Norway style deal with some contribution and free movement of labour, but regaining control and sovereignty. If this proposition had been put forward from day one I am fairly certain I would have voted to leave but I am not prepared to 'take the leap in the dark' only to find that the Norway style deal is agreed and that there will be little difference in the ability to control immigration. Leave say this is our last chance but the EU will face disaster on many fronts in the coming months and years and it is incumbent on eurosceptics to plan for the day when they will get a further opportunity, which may well be supported by the majority.

    It's interesting - for those of us old enough to remember - to contrast the leadership of both sides in this campaign with the 1975 referendum. At that time the leaders of both sides - Jenkins and Heath for In and Benn, Foot and Powell for Out - had spent many years putting forward their respective cases and clearly spoke from a deep and long-held conviction. No one could possibly accuse them of being motivated by short-term careerist considerations - in fact many of them probably harmed their future careers by the positions they took at that time.

    This time however we Cameron and Johnson - two vacuous chancers who believe only in themselves. Not surprisingly the campaign has degenerated into a competition of insults and absurd exaggerations - on both sides.
    I genuinely believe no one is content with the EU, even if we vote to remain and the post referendum UK EU delegation need to take a hard line Eurosceptic position and gather support from other Countries for fundamental change
    What a strange post from somebody voting Remain
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    Not sure if this has been linked to before, but it's very good on Labour's comfort zone approach and why it's so self-defeating:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/25/labour-answers-lie-in-losses-not-victories

    Expect the party's members and leaders to largely ignore it in favour of self-congratulation and impotent opposition.

    Yes, I thought it was a lot better than Behr's normal wibblings about bad lefties. The only problem I saw was that it didn't seem to have any actual solutions. Believe it or not, most of the Corbyn supporting members also want to "reconnect with lost voters" as he puts it, and agree with him that denying the issues or adopting conservative policy aren't the answer. The leadership election was driven by a frustrated vote for the only candidate who was putting forward an alternative. It might not have been a good alternative, there may be big issues with the person putting it forward, but it wasn't as completely devoid of hope and direction as the other choices.

    The question is, if immigration really is the key issue of this whole debate, how does Labour simultaneously sit as a pro-European party with (the right wing in particular) accepting that a commitment to technocratic steady-as-she-goes economics is essential for "economic credibility" and yet do something to address concerns about immigration? The key difference seems to be an electorate who will believe the Tories when they lie about controlling immigration, but not believe Labour when they try and lie about it. Is it about becoming more convincing liars, or actually doing something?
  • So Boris is having such a terrible referendum when he TOPS Cameron etc on trust and his Leadership ratings compared to Osborne are typically 10 times the level of regard that Osborne achieves. Cameron and Osborne would be glad to have Boris's ratings. FFS

    I do not have a cent on Boris for Leader. I may do so since better odds are becoming available.

    Everyone is having a terrible referendum. The ratings will be interesting come the Autumn as the aftermath of the vote becomes apparent
    Andrea Leadsom has been very impressive. Widely praised by Conservative, Labour, Lib Dem, LEAVE and REMAIN people. I struggle to think of an equivalent for REMAIN - probably because Osborne and Cameron have dominated the media time.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,150

    @RCS1000
    "The UK has been a lot more advanced at pushing energy saving measures than France. While there is some catch up now, new homes in the UK are simply more energy efficient than in France."

    Mr. Robert, I am at a loss with this. We are talking about electricity consumption are we not? I have my home insulated to the hilt, but that doesn't change by one watt my electricity consumption. My computer needs the same amount of power, it still gets dark at the same time, my kettle needs the same amount of power so I can make tea.

    My cousin, a retired vicar, has spent about 30 grand taking his house off line, solar panels on the roof for electricity and a heat exchanger in the garden to provide heating and hot water. He now gets a cheque from the electricity company every quarter rather than a bill and does not have a gas boiler at all*. Now if we had building regs that forced that sort of set up on all new builds I'd concede to you had a point, but we do not.

    *Given his advanced age I really do not know why he bothered. He will never live long enough to recover his investment and their are no children to inherit.

    Pre GE I was at a fracking meeting with some Greenies, they said that solar panels on a small house only cost around £8k and that everyone should have them. I asked where they would get the £8k from. They live in cuckoo land.
    My panels have been on my roof for 15 months and cost £6.500 and have returned nearly 10%. The installation is a huge success with inflation proved payments for 20 years and the return on capital compared to a savings account is a no brainer. However had the installation costs been borrowed it would not have been such a success
    We are currently thinking of following our cousin on this. We have a large South-facing roof an electricity bill that averages about £250 a quarter and a son to inherit. If we do not move, which is the other plan we are still mulling over, then we probably will do so.

    However, I am at a loss to understand why the building regulations have not been changed to make solar panels and heat exchangers compulsory on all new builds.
    To be honest if you have the capital just do it as it will be a success and will improve your energy rating for your EPC, when and if you decide to sell, thereby improving the attraction of your home to buyers. I absolutely agree that they should be installed as part of building regs on all new build residential property
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    Wanderer said:

    One thing about Boris that doesn't get aired that much is whether Tory Leave MPs see his conversion as genuine. If I were a Tory Leaver I would want to be damn sure that I replaced Cameron with a true Brexit believer. Once have installed the new leader it's going to be hard to replace him before the election if he seems to be going wobbly. I guess that would point more towards someone like Patel rather than Boris?

    My objection to Boris is twofold:

    (1) I don't trust him and think he'd sell his own mother to advance his career
    (2) He's an awful negotiator, as his consistent folding to the RMT showed whilst he was Mayor

    If there was a Brexit I'd absolutely not want him as PM because I think he'd either go native or get an awful deal.
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    Leave seem to have rediscovered their mojo after that dire Mori poll which proved to be a bit of a flash in the pan. Definitely more lead in their pencil today.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822

    Oh my word - James Brokenshire is AWFUL on Sky talking about immigration.
    He looks really weird and spouting obvious bollocks.

    Long thought of him as a sub standard minister, a bed blocker for better talent on the back benches and more junior ranks. Good news for LEAVE the more talk is on immigration.
    IDS superb and punchy on Sky in response.
  • Voodoo but big sample

    'An online survey of 2,016 Netmums users found that 47% were planning to vote to leave the European Union, while just 36% wanted to stay and 17% were still unsure about how they would be voting, indicating that it’s women (and mums) who could be the key ‘swing voters’...

    https://uk.style.yahoo.com/post/144949704119/british-mums-are-backing-brexit-to-secure-a-better

    I am staggered by that. Unless LEAVE infiltrated it, Netmums is the Guardianista of the female online world.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Mr. Royale, Boris is likeable, but there's not enough beneath the surface. He's less iceberg and more flotsam.

    I don't think he could command the PCP either [although Cameron isn't making his successor's task any easier].
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited May 2016

    Oh my word - James Brokenshire is AWFUL on Sky talking about immigration.
    He looks really weird and spouting obvious bollocks.

    Long thought of him as a sub standard minister, a bed blocker for better talent on the back benches and more junior ranks. Good news for LEAVE the more talk is on immigration.
    IDS superb and punchy on Sky in response.
    Yes he was. Fact after fact and with quotes. The interviewer's idea of a balance was the closing remark of "thanks for that IDS, I am sure many people would disagree with you..."

    IDS also has much higher trust ratings than Cameron. Who'd ave thunk it?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756

    @RCS1000
    "The UK has been a lot more advanced at pushing energy saving measures than France. While there is some catch up now, new homes in the UK are simply more energy efficient than in France."

    Mr. Robert, I am at a loss with this. We are talking about electricity consumption are we not? I have my home insulated to the hilt, but that doesn't change by one watt my electricity consumption. My computer needs the same amount of power, it still gets dark at the same time, my kettle needs the same amount of power so I can make tea.

    My cousin, a retired vicar, has spent about 30 grand taking his house off line, solar panels on the roof for electricity and a heat exchanger in the garden to provide heating and hot water. He now gets a cheque from the electricity company every quarter rather than a bill and does not have a gas boiler at all*. Now if we had building regs that forced that sort of set up on all new builds I'd concede to you had a point, but we do not.

    *Given his advanced age I really do not know why he bothered. He will never live long enough to recover his investment and their are no children to inherit.

    Pre GE I was at a fracking meeting with some Greenies, they said that solar panels on a small house only cost around £8k and that everyone should have them. I asked where they would get the £8k from. They live in cuckoo land.
    What we should be doing is insisting that every new build in Britain has solar panels on the roof. The economies of scale would slash the cost and in the grand scheme of things an extra couple of thousand pounds on a £200,000 house is tiny.
    Solar panels are very ugly, though.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Mr. Beting, sure you're not confusing it for their arch-rivals Mumsnet?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    I cling to the hope that what are witnessing from Boris is a Mohammed Ali-worthy example of rope a dope, letting Cameron and Osborne shoot off all their weaponry before purdah starts, with Boris (tag-teamed with Gove) doing a master class in forensic demolition of the bollocks that Remain's top two have spouted for the past month or more.

    It's a hope.

    It's the hope that kills you.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,150

    The campaign from both sides has been thoroughly depressing and just makes you want it to go away. I do not think anyone has enhanced their reputation and on something as important as this is it should makes all of us shake our heads in dismay. I read Max Hastings article in today's Daily Mail and it is a good read and virtually encapsulates my own view, as as less than enthusiastic remainer. It does seem that there is no appetite for the EU but also there are big doubts with leave singularly failing to paint a unified picture of how we could achieve a successful Brexit. Leave have had long enough to formulate a Norway style deal with some contribution and free movement of labour, but regaining control and sovereignty. If this proposition had been put forward from day one I am fairly certain I would have voted to leave but I am not prepared to 'take the leap in the dark' only to find that the Norway style deal is agreed and that there will be little difference in the ability to control immigration. Leave say this is our last chance but the EU will face disaster on many fronts in the coming months and years and it is incumbent on eurosceptics to plan for the day when they will get a further opportunity, which may well be supported by the majority.

    It's interesting - for those of us old enough to remember - to contrast the leadership of both sides in this campaign with the 1975 referendum. At that time the leaders of both sides - Jenkins and Heath for In and Benn, Foot and Powell for Out - had spent many years putting forward their respective cases and clearly spoke from a deep and long-held conviction. No one could possibly accuse them of being motivated by short-term careerist considerations - in fact many of them probably harmed their future careers by the positions they took at that time.

    This time however we Cameron and Johnson - two vacuous chancers who believe only in themselves. Not surprisingly the campaign has degenerated into a competition of insults and absurd exaggerations - on both sides.
    I genuinely believe no one is content with the EU, even if we vote to remain and the post referendum UK EU delegation need to take a hard line Eurosceptic position and gather support from other Countries for fundamental change
    What a strange post from somebody voting Remain
    Not strange at all. I would recommend you read Max Hastings in the Daily Mail today. I know leave think remain are all Europhiles but that is simply not the case. My utter hatred for Juncker et all is probably similar to yours, it is just we don't see the solution in the same light and we should respect each others view.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    I'm surprised more tories don't like Priti Patel

    Mr. Blackburn, aside from political geeks I very much doubt that many people even know who Priti Patel even is, let alone what she believes.

    I have just tested this theory, I asked Herself (a lifelong Conservative voter and Telegraph reader) what she thought of Priti Patel - the response, "Never heard of her".

    How many people had ever heard of David Cameron before he became leader of the Conservative Party? Precious few, I would suggest.
    I've come to terms with the fact that the conservative party has changed, I can't see me ever voting tory again. It used to be full of the likes of Priti, now its just a larger version of the Liberal Democrats. I don't have a clue what it stands for.

    Although I've never met your good lady I'm pretty certain she'd prefer Priti to the likes of Matt Hancock.
    I am certain that I will never vote for the Conservative Party again, though possibly not for the reasons you mention, and Herself, I think, still votes for them more out of habit than anything else. I read yesterday that the Conservative membership is now down to about 150,000 (Cameron has seen it halve under his stewardship). Judging from my local branch it is a party quite literally dieing out.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited May 2016

    Voodoo but big sample

    'An online survey of 2,016 Netmums users found that 47% were planning to vote to leave the European Union, while just 36% wanted to stay and 17% were still unsure about how they would be voting, indicating that it’s women (and mums) who could be the key ‘swing voters’...

    https://uk.style.yahoo.com/post/144949704119/british-mums-are-backing-brexit-to-secure-a-better

    I am staggered by that. Unless LEAVE infiltrated it, Netmums is the Guardianista of the female online world.
    I know :astonished:

    I was WTF when the owner of Netmums was talking about it on the telly. She seemed a trifle WTF herself. She said of the Top 10 issues selected by respondents, immigration pressure on health, maternity services, schools and housing were top.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709

    Voodoo but big sample

    Nothing, but lots of it!
  • Mr. Royale, Boris is likeable, but there's not enough beneath the surface. He's less iceberg and more flotsam.

    I don't think he could command the PCP either [although Cameron isn't making his successor's task any easier].

    If MPs think Boris is the best chance of retaining their seat the PCP will back him. As for Osborne they keep seeing a pile of evidence on just how toxic a Leader he would be.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Mr. Tokyo, sounds like a Treasury report ;)
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,003

    On Mike's leader, I'm far from convinced that Osborne has a Brown-like bloc of MPs that could propel him to the final two; still less one that could propel a protege of his there. I wouldn't be at all surprised if neither he nor Boris made it. The implication of that is that the run-off could easily be between two relatively unfancied runners, both chosen in order to stop Bosborne.

    I can't see Osborne or Boris in final two either. Neither are suited - and Osborne has appalling polling.
    Although so do Hunt and Gove - though I think the party would be less naturally suspicious of either of them.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,451
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    Purdah is not going to make a ha'p'orth of difference. The Leave side shouldn't kid themselves.

    I totally agree. Purdah isn't going to stop anything. Remain have a very carefully choreographed campaign that Downing Street has also been working on for months, including the G7 announcement tomorrow (totally inevitable), the WTO visit next week, and IMF report in the last few days.

    The guns won't fall silent until 10pm on Thursday 23rs June.

    All Leave can do is try much harder. Much much harder.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756

    The campaign from both sides has been thoroughly depressing and just makes you want it to go away. I do not think anyone has enhanced their reputation and on something as important as this is it should makes all of us shake our heads in dismay. I read Max Hastings article in today's Daily Mail and it is a good read and virtually encapsulates my own view, as as less than enthusiastic remainer. It does seem that there is no appetite for the EU but also there are big doubts with leave singularly failing to paint a unified picture of how we could achieve a successful Brexit. Leave have had long enough to formulate a Norway style deal with some contribution and free movement of labour, but regaining control and sovereignty. If this proposition had been put forward from day one I am fairly certain I would have voted to leave but I am not prepared to 'take the leap in the dark' only to find that the Norway style deal is agreed and that there will be little difference in the ability to control immigration. Leave say this is our last chance but the EU will face disaster on many fronts in the coming months and years and it is incumbent on eurosceptics to plan for the day when they will get a further opportunity, which may well be supported by the majority.

    It's interesting - for those of us old enough to remember - to contrast the leadership of both sides in this campaign with the 1975 referendum. At that time the leaders of both sides - Jenkins and Heath for In and Benn, Foot and Powell for Out - had spent many years putting forward their respective cases and clearly spoke from a deep and long-held conviction. No one could possibly accuse them of being motivated by short-term careerist considerations - in fact many of them probably harmed their future careers by the positions they took at that time.

    This time however we Cameron and Johnson - two vacuous chancers who believe only in themselves. Not surprisingly the campaign has degenerated into a competition of insults and absurd exaggerations - on both sides.
    What a strange post from somebody voting Remain
    Not strange at all. I would recommend you read Max Hastings in the Daily Mail today. I know leave think remain are all Europhiles but that is simply not the case. My utter hatred for Juncker et all is probably similar to yours, it is just we don't see the solution in the same light and we should respect each others view.
    Yes, that's fair enough. But, I think that if we stay we'll just get More Europe, or at best, be endlessly battling to prevent More Europe.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    The campaign from both sides has been thoroughly depressing and just makes you want it to go away. I do not think anyone has enhanced their reputation and on something as important as this is it should makes all of us shake our heads in dismay. I read Max Hastings article in today's Daily Mail and it is a good read and virtually encapsulates my own view, as as less than enthusiastic remainer. It does seem that there is no appetite for the EU but also there are big doubts with leave singularly failing to paint a unified picture of how we could achieve a successful Brexit. Leave have had long enough to formulate a Norway style deal with some contribution and free movement of labour, but regaining control and sovereignty. If this proposition had been put forward from day one I am fairly certain I would have voted to leave but I am not prepared to 'take the leap in the dark' only to find that the Norway style deal is agreed and that there will be little difference in the ability to control immigration. Leave say this is our last chance but the EU will face disaster on many fronts in the coming months and years and it is incumbent on eurosceptics to plan for the day when they will get a further opportunity, which may well be supported by the majority.

    It's interesting - for those of us old enough to remember - to contrast the leadership of both sides in this campaign with the 1975 referendum. At that time the leaders of both sides - Jenkins and Heath for In and Benn, Foot and Powell for Out - had spent many years putting forward their respective cases and clearly spoke from a deep and long-held conviction. No one could possibly accuse them of being motivated by short-term careerist considerations - in fact many of them probably harmed their future careers by the positions they took at that time.

    This time however we Cameron and Johnson - two vacuous chancers who believe only in themselves. Not surprisingly the campaign has degenerated into a competition of insults and absurd exaggerations - on both sides.
    I genuinely believe no one is content with the EU, even if we vote to remain and the post referendum UK EU delegation need to take a hard line Eurosceptic position and gather support from other Countries for fundamental change
    That just isn't going to happen.

    Exactly what Cameron has just tried to do.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited May 2016

    Purdah is not going to make a ha'p'orth of difference. The Leave side shouldn't kid themselves.

    I totally agree. Purdah isn't going to stop anything. Remain have a very carefully choreographed campaign that Downing Street has also been working on for months, including the G7 announcement tomorrow (totally inevitable), the WTO visit next week, and IMF report in the last few days.

    The guns won't fall silent until 10pm on Thursday 23rs June.

    All Leave can do is try much harder. Much much harder.
    G7 meeting has pulled a possible EU trade deal with Japan out of the hat.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,433
    I see the stories last night about the tampon tax turned out to be bollocks and the exemption is still on course to be implemented.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    Voodoo but big sample

    'An online survey of 2,016 Netmums users found that 47% were planning to vote to leave the European Union, while just 36% wanted to stay and 17% were still unsure about how they would be voting, indicating that it’s women (and mums) who could be the key ‘swing voters’...

    https://uk.style.yahoo.com/post/144949704119/british-mums-are-backing-brexit-to-secure-a-better

    I am staggered by that. Unless LEAVE infiltrated it, Netmums is the Guardianista of the female online world.
    I know :astonished:

    I was WTF when the owner of Netmums was talking about it on the telly. She seemed a trifle WTF herself. She said of the Top 10 issues selected by respondents, immigration pressure on health, maternity services, schools and housing were top.
    I wouldn't take any notice of it whatsoever. Entirely self selecting sample.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,003
    Scott_P said:

    Mel Onn suggests there should be a Brexit debate between Boris and Boris

    Boris is quite capable of debating himself within a single sentence.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Mr. Eagles, that'll turn things around...

    Cameron's still got a veto on the colour scheme for the gimp suit's zips.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,433

    Mr. Eagles, that'll turn things around...

    Cameron's still got a veto on the colour scheme for the gimp suit's zips.

    But you should have seen the Leavers last night, it was so funny.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,150


    What a strange post from somebody voting Remain

    Not strange at all. I would recommend you read Max Hastings in the Daily Mail today. I know leave think remain are all Europhiles but that is simply not the case. My utter hatred for Juncker et all is probably similar to yours, it is just we don't see the solution in the same light and we should respect each others view.

    Yes, that's fair enough. But, I think that if we stay we'll just get More Europe, or at best, be endlessly battling to prevent More Europe.

    I do think there will be an ongoing battle to prevent more Europe but there are many within the EU who are just as disenchanted and it is my opinion that now is not the time to leave, but I am very much of the view that 'never say never'
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    Sean_F said:

    @RCS1000
    "The UK has been a lot more advanced at pushing energy saving measures than France. While there is some catch up now, new homes in the UK are simply more energy efficient than in France."

    Mr. Robert, I am at a loss with this. We are talking about electricity consumption are we not? I have my home insulated to the hilt, but that doesn't change by one watt my electricity consumption. My computer needs the same amount of power, it still gets dark at the same time, my kettle needs the same amount of power so I can make tea.

    My cousin, a retired vicar, has spent about 30 grand taking his house off line, solar panels on the roof for electricity and a heat exchanger in the garden to provide heating and hot water. He now gets a cheque from the electricity company every quarter rather than a bill and does not have a gas boiler at all*. Now if we had building regs that forced that sort of set up on all new builds I'd concede to you had a point, but we do not.

    *Given his advanced age I really do not know why he bothered. He will never live long enough to recover his investment and their are no children to inherit.

    Pre GE I was at a fracking meeting with some Greenies, they said that solar panels on a small house only cost around £8k and that everyone should have them. I asked where they would get the £8k from. They live in cuckoo land.
    What we should be doing is insisting that every new build in Britain has solar panels on the roof. The economies of scale would slash the cost and in the grand scheme of things an extra couple of thousand pounds on a £200,000 house is tiny.
    Solar panels are very ugly, though.
    The black ones made by Sunpower are pretty (also highest yielding/best guaranteed).
  • madmacsmadmacs Posts: 94
    Does anyone know how pollsters deal with British citizens living in the EU. Anecdotally and from posts elsewhere many in Spain seem to be lobbying hard to remain, including reminding relatives that they may lose their cheap holidays. Do pollsters include this group. I believe there are about 2 million living in the rest of The EU. I know a number can't vote but if only one million their votes could be deceive.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,944

    @RCS1000
    "The UK has been a lot more advanced at pushing energy saving measures than France. While there is some catch up now, new homes in the UK are simply more energy efficient than in France."

    Mr. Robert, I am at a loss with this. We are talking about electricity consumption are we not? I have my home insulated to the hilt, but that doesn't change by one watt my electricity consumption. My computer needs the same amount of power, it still gets dark at the same time, my kettle needs the same amount of power so I can make tea.

    My cousin, a retired vicar, has spent about 30 grand taking his house off line, solar panels on the roof for electricity and a heat exchanger in the garden to provide heating and hot water. He now gets a cheque from the electricity company every quarter rather than a bill and does not have a gas boiler at all*. Now if we had building regs that forced that sort of set up on all new builds I'd concede to you had a point, but we do not.

    *Given his advanced age I really do not know why he bothered. He will never live long enough to recover his investment and their are no children to inherit.

    Pre GE I was at a fracking meeting with some Greenies, they said that solar panels on a small house only cost around £8k and that everyone should have them. I asked where they would get the £8k from. They live in cuckoo land.
    My panels have been on my roof for 15 months and cost £6.500 and have returned nearly 10%. The installation is a huge success with inflation proved payments for 20 years and the return on capital compared to a savings account is a no brainer. However had the installation costs been borrowed it would not have been such a success
    We are currently thinking of following our cousin on this. We have a large South-facing roof an electricity bill that averages about £250 a quarter and a son to inherit. If we do not move, which is the other plan we are still mulling over, then we probably will do so.

    However, I am at a loss to understand why the building regulations have not been changed to make solar panels and heat exchangers compulsory on all new builds.
    To be honest if you have the capital just do it as it will be a success and will improve your energy rating for your EPC, when and if you decide to sell, thereby improving the attraction of your home to buyers. I absolutely agree that they should be installed as part of building regs on all new build residential property
    I thought that there were government loans at one stage, but now there's just the feed in tariff, which has been cut but is still worthwhile.
    http://www.theecoexperts.co.uk/government-grants-installing-solar-panels
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    Sean_F said:

    The campaign from both sides has been thoroughly depressing and just makes you want it to go away. I do not think anyone has enhanced their reputation and on something as important as this is it should makes all of us shake our heads in dismay. I read Max Hastings article in today's Daily Mail and it is a good read and virtually encapsulates my own view, as as less than enthusiastic remainer. It does seem that there is no appetite for the EU but also there are big doubts with leave singularly failing to paint a unified picture of how we could achieve a successful Brexit. Leave have had long enough to formulate a Norway style deal with some contribution and free movement of labour, but regaining control and sovereignty. If this proposition had been put forward from day one I am fairly certain I would have voted to leave but I am not prepared to 'take the leap in the dark' only to find that the Norway style deal is agreed and that there will be little difference in the ability to control immigration. Leave

    It's interesting - for those of us old enough to remember - to contrast the leadership of both sides in this campaign with the 1975 referendum. At that time the leaders of both sides - Jenkins and Heath for In and Benn, Foot and Powell for Out - had spent many years putting forward their respective cases and clearly spoke from a deep and long-held conviction. No one could possibly accuse them of being motivated by short-term careerist considerations - in fact many of them probably harmed their future careers by the positions they took at that time.

    This time however we Cameron and Johnson - two vacuous chancers who believe only in themselves. Not surprisingly the campaign has degenerated into a competition of insults and absurd exaggerations - on both sides.
    What a strange post from somebody voting Remain
    Not strange at all. I would recommend you read Max Hastings in the Daily Mail today. I know leave think remain are all Europhiles but that is simply not the case. My utter hatred for Juncker et all is probably similar to yours, it is just we don't see the solution in the same light and we should respect each others view.
    Yes, that's fair enough. But, I think that if we stay we'll just get More Europe, or at best, be endlessly battling to prevent More Europe.
    The only thing that'd force a serious discussion, IMHO, would be a Leave vote.

    There is no such thing as a qualified Remain vote, as far as the EU are concerned.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822

    Oh my word - James Brokenshire is AWFUL on Sky talking about immigration.
    He looks really weird and spouting obvious bollocks.

    Long thought of him as a sub standard minister, a bed blocker for better talent on the back benches and more junior ranks. Good news for LEAVE the more talk is on immigration.
    IDS superb and punchy on Sky in response.
    Yes he was. Fact after fact and with quotes. The interviewer's idea of a balance was the closing remark of "thanks for that IDS, I am sure many people would disagree with you..."

    IDS also has much higher trust ratings than Cameron. Who'd ave thunk it?
    I did enjoy him repeatedly pointing out being elected on tens of thousands and it was up to HMG to do this not Leave. More of that please!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,150
    Polruan said:

    Sean_F said:

    @RCS1000
    "The UK has been a lot more advanced at pushing energy saving measures than France. While there is some catch up now, new homes in the UK are simply more energy efficient than in France."

    Mr. Robert, I am at a loss with this. We are talking about electricity consumption are we not? I have my home insulated to the hilt, but that doesn't change by one watt my electricity consumption. My computer needs the same amount of power, it still gets dark at the same time, my kettle needs the same amount of power so I can make tea.

    My cousin, a retired vicar, has spent about 30 grand taking his house off line, solar panels on the roof for electricity and a heat exchanger in the garden to provide heating and hot water. He now gets a cheque from the electricity company every quarter rather than a bill and does not have a gas boiler at all*. Now if we had building regs that forced that sort of set up on all new builds I'd concede to you had a point, but we do not.

    *Given his advanced age I really do not know why he bothered. He will never live long enough to recover his investment and their are no children to inherit.

    Pre GE I was at a fracking meeting with some Greenies, they said that solar panels on a small house only cost around £8k and that everyone should have them. I asked where they would get the £8k from. They live in cuckoo land.
    What we should be doing is insisting that every new build in Britain has solar panels on the roof. The economies of scale would slash the cost and in the grand scheme of things an extra couple of thousand pounds on a £200,000 house is tiny.
    Solar panels are very ugly, though.
    The black ones made by Sunpower are pretty (also highest yielding/best guaranteed).
    Mine merge very well on my roof and do not look out of place at all
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709

    @RCS1000
    "The UK has been a lot more advanced at pushing energy saving measures than France. While there is some catch up now, new homes in the UK are simply more energy efficient than in France."

    Mr. Robert, I am at a loss with this. We are talking about electricity consumption are we not? I have my home insulated to the hilt, but that doesn't change by one watt my electricity consumption. My computer needs the same amount of power, it still gets dark at the same time, my kettle needs the same amount of power so I can make tea.

    My cousin, a retired vicar, has spent about 30 grand taking his house off line, solar panels on the roof for electricity and a heat exchanger in the garden to provide heating and hot water. He now gets a cheque from the electricity company every quarter rather than a bill and does not have a gas boiler at all*. Now if we had building regs that forced that sort of set up on all new builds I'd concede to you had a point, but we do not.

    *Given his advanced age I really do not know why he bothered. He will never live long enough to recover his investment and their are no children to inherit.

    Pre GE I was at a fracking meeting with some Greenies, they said that solar panels on a small house only cost around £8k and that everyone should have them. I asked where they would get the £8k from. They live in cuckoo land.
    At the risk of talking cloud cuckoo land theoretical economics if you've got a space to put some capital equipment on and that equipment produces a reasonably reliable, predictable return (not least with government subsidies) it should be possible to either borrow against the capital equipment or let somebody else own it and take the revenue and charge them rent on the space.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,266

    I see the stories last night about the tampon tax turned out to be bollocks and the exemption is still on course to be implemented.

    I'd be interested to see a link.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Mr. Eagles, I'm trying not to bang on about my book(s) too much, but lines like that make it very hard to resist...

    Of course, if anyone wants something really funny they should buy this excellent (5*) comedy, by me:
    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adventures-Edric-Hero-Hornska-Book-ebook/dp/B01DOSP9ZK
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,765

    @RCS1000
    "The UK has been a lot more advanced at pushing energy saving measures than France. While there is some catch up now, new homes in the UK are simply more energy efficient than in France."

    Mr. Robert, I am at a loss with this. We are talking about electricity consumption are we not? I have my home insulated to the hilt, but that doesn't change by one watt my electricity consumption. My computer needs the same amount of power, it still gets dark at the same time, my kettle needs the same amount of power so I can make tea.

    My cousin, a retired vicar, has spent about 30 grand taking his house off line, solar panels on the roof for electricity and a heat exchanger in the garden to provide heating and hot water. He now gets a cheque from the electricity company every quarter rather than a bill and does not have a gas boiler at all*. Now if we had building regs that forced that sort of set up on all new builds I'd concede to you had a point, but we do not.

    *Given his advanced age I really do not know why he bothered. He will never live long enough to recover his investment and their are no children to inherit.

    Pre GE I was at a fracking meeting with some Greenies, they said that solar panels on a small house only cost around £8k and that everyone should have them. I asked where they would get the £8k from. They live in cuckoo land.
    What we should be doing is insisting that every new build in Britain has solar panels on the roof. The economies of scale would slash the cost and in the grand scheme of things an extra couple of thousand pounds on a £200,000 house is tiny.
    Agree entirely
    As an aside this is particular bug bear of mine given that I am not allowed to have solar panels on my house because it is listed.

    I understand entirely the reasoning and would not want the house to be damaged or diminished in any way but it is still rather frustrating.
    Yes, it's hell isn't it? Last year I needed to do some repairs on the crenellations above the west drawing room. The paperwork and needless fuss was an absolute nightmare. What the authorities can't seem to grasp is that I'm doing the nation's heritage a service here!
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Sean_F said:

    Solar panels are very ugly, though.

    They might be less ugly if they were designed in from the start, as Richard T suggested.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,266

    Purdah is not going to make a ha'p'orth of difference. The Leave side shouldn't kid themselves.

    I totally agree. Purdah isn't going to stop anything. Remain have a very carefully choreographed campaign that Downing Street has also been working on for months, including the G7 announcement tomorrow (totally inevitable), the WTO visit next week, and IMF report in the last few days.

    The guns won't fall silent until 10pm on Thursday 23rs June.

    All Leave can do is try much harder. Much much harder.
    No, try smarter. Which is sadly even less likely.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,433

    I see the stories last night about the tampon tax turned out to be bollocks and the exemption is still on course to be implemented.

    I'd be interested to see a link.
    https://twitter.com/pierremoscovici/status/735747538188275712
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,433
    On another app, it says the hold up was as discussed last night, the distinction between a zero rated item and an exempt item.
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251

    Purdah is not going to make a ha'p'orth of difference. The Leave side shouldn't kid themselves.

    I totally agree. Purdah isn't going to stop anything. Remain have a very carefully choreographed campaign that Downing Street has also been working on for months, including the G7 announcement tomorrow (totally inevitable), the WTO visit next week, and IMF report in the last few days.

    The guns won't fall silent until 10pm on Thursday 23rs June.

    All Leave can do is try much harder. Much much harder.
    Indeed although as the polls have barely moved so far I'm not sure any of this is going to impact greatly. Remain are ahead but clearly not by much - there's a lot that can go wrong. The fact the polls are close is probably a good thing for Remain - people won't be able to afford the luxury of not voting or indulging Out fantasies if they're a eurosceptic reluctant inner.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Of course, the prime use for solar energy is powering the solar death ray: a clean, efficient, sustainable way of melting my enemies. Lacks the romance and spectacle of trebuchet-based justice, and the sheer thrill of my enormous man-cannon, but it is a nice addition to the Morris Dancer arsenal.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    F1: drain cover came loose during practice. Could've easily killed/severely injured Button.

    https://twitter.com/McLaren_Soul/status/735783333460729856
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    Yes, it's hell isn't it? Last year I needed to do some repairs on the crenellations above the west drawing room. The paperwork and needless fuss was an absolute nightmare. What the authorities can't seem to grasp is that I'm doing the nation's heritage a service here!

    My favourite conversation with the listed building officer at the local council:

    "What documentary evidence do you have that this is not an original wall?"

    "Well, unfortunately we don't have any documentary evidence, but it is made of breeze-block, so perhaps that's an indication."
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,451

    I see the stories last night about the tampon tax turned out to be bollocks and the exemption is still on course to be implemented.

    I'd be interested to see a link.
    https://twitter.com/pierremoscovici/status/735747538188275712
    I said they'd be frantic and panic stricken phone calls going into the Commission last night didn't I? ;)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,171
    GIN1138 said:

    I see the stories last night about the tampon tax turned out to be bollocks and the exemption is still on course to be implemented.

    I'd be interested to see a link.
    https://twitter.com/pierremoscovici/status/735747538188275712
    I said they'd be frantic and panic stricken phone calls going into the Commission last night didn't I? ;)
    That's Cam's renegotiation right there!!
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    rcs1000 said:

    What a remarkably unpleasant article by Katie Hopkins.

    If someone said: you can either have Herpes, or be stuck in a lift for an hour with Katie Hopkins, I genuinely don't know which one I'd choose.
    Catching herpes is usually fun, and I can't see how being stuck in a lift with Ms Hopkins can be fun.

    So I vote herpes
    I would go for an hour in the lift with Ms Hopkins.

    As we doctors know: Herpes is for life not just for Christmas!
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,003

    Is Joe Biden patiently waiting in the wings for Hillary to falter?

    He looks to be the obvious choice to become the Democratic candidate should her candidacy implode, which looks distinctly possible.
    Skybet offer the best odds on such an eventuality at 40/1.
    I'm on!

    Sanders is now by far the 'obvious' candidate should Hillary fall (particularly should she fall before the final primaries), given how many delegates he already has. That said, Biden remains the obvious stop-Sanders reserve. 40/1? Depends on how likely you think it is that Hillary will have to withdraw. Personally, I'd want double that: 10/1 that Hillary withdraws x 5/1 that Biden defeats Sanders if she does.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,765

    I see the stories last night about the tampon tax turned out to be bollocks and the exemption is still on course to be implemented.

    I'd be interested to see a link.
    https://twitter.com/pierremoscovici/status/735747538188275712
    I think that was Leave grasping at straws, desperate for some totemic EU issue that would expose Ozzy as a vassal. But the man has triumphed yet again. I just hope those who doubted him don't make their apologies too grovelling.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Voodoo but big sample

    'An online survey of 2,016 Netmums users found that 47% were planning to vote to leave the European Union, while just 36% wanted to stay and 17% were still unsure about how they would be voting, indicating that it’s women (and mums) who could be the key ‘swing voters’...

    https://uk.style.yahoo.com/post/144949704119/british-mums-are-backing-brexit-to-secure-a-better

    I am staggered by that. Unless LEAVE infiltrated it, Netmums is the Guardianista of the female online world.
    I know :astonished:

    I was WTF when the owner of Netmums was talking about it on the telly. She seemed a trifle WTF herself. She said of the Top 10 issues selected by respondents, immigration pressure on health, maternity services, schools and housing were top.
    Yeah and their husbands sh***ing the Slovakian au pair
This discussion has been closed.