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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Survation phone survey continues the EURef polling divide:

SystemSystem Posts: 12,267
edited May 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Survation phone survey continues the EURef polling divide: Remain 8% lead remains

I’m off to London this after to record the first PB/Polling Matters TV Show in our new studios near Victoria. Keiran Pedley and I will, no doubt, spend a lot of time discussing the polling and trying to make sense of it.

Read the full story here


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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,429
    The Director General of the WTO will be coming to London in early June and explain why Brexit is bad for the UK.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @faisalislam: WTO boss: "pretty much all" UK global trade has to be negotiated post Brexit. Brits "will have to pay" £9bn tariffs: https://t.co/bdhF0cxE6u
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    The Director General of the WTO will be coming to London in early June and explain why Brexit is bad for the UK.

    That should sort out all the Leavers and waverers who weren't convinced by Obama, Carney, the IFS, the Pope... etc then.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,429
    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: WTO boss: "pretty much all" UK global trade has to be negotiated post Brexit. Brits "will have to pay" £9bn tariffs: https://t.co/bdhF0cxE6u

    Poor Roberto Azevêdo, does he know the opprobrium he's letting himself in for from the Leavers.

    That said, sales of tinfoil are going to go through the roof.
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    Oh and 44-38 = 8?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,429
    Polruan said:

    The Director General of the WTO will be coming to London in early June and explain why Brexit is bad for the UK.

    That should sort out all the Leavers and waverers who weren't convinced by Obama, Carney, the IFS, the Pope... etc then.
    Leave have brought a water pistol to take on a battalion of Remain MLRS trucks.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,429
    Polruan said:

    Oh and 44-38 = 8?

    56 - 44 = 8

    Mike's talking about the repercentaged figures when DKs have been excluded.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,411
    Polruan said:

    Oh and 44-38 = 8?

    "Excluding undecided voters"
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    Polruan said:

    The Director General of the WTO will be coming to London in early June and explain why Brexit is bad for the UK.

    That should sort out all the Leavers and waverers who weren't convinced by Obama, Carney, the IFS, the Pope... etc then.
    Leave have brought a water pistol to take on a battalion of Remain MLRS trucks.
    ...and then pointed it at themselves...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,411
    Polruan said:

    Polruan said:

    The Director General of the WTO will be coming to London in early June and explain why Brexit is bad for the UK.

    That should sort out all the Leavers and waverers who weren't convinced by Obama, Carney, the IFS, the Pope... etc then.
    Leave have brought a water pistol to take on a battalion of Remain MLRS trucks.
    ...and then pointed it at themselves...
    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/734315730703945728
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753

    Polruan said:

    The Director General of the WTO will be coming to London in early June and explain why Brexit is bad for the UK.

    That should sort out all the Leavers and waverers who weren't convinced by Obama, Carney, the IFS, the Pope... etc then.
    Leave have brought a water pistol to take on a battalion of Remain MLRS trucks.
    Another first class flyin, five star hotel stayin' pubic money guzzlin' lackey.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Alex Wickham
    BOOM. Eddie Izzard's election hotel bills declared as national spend despite clearly being part of local campaign: https://t.co/ey1FEsYSbD
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    The Director General of the WTO will be coming to London in early June and explain why Brexit is bad for the UK.


    If Remain was really confident of a win, they wouldn't keep asking for help from outsiders.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,429
    taffys said:

    Polruan said:

    The Director General of the WTO will be coming to London in early June and explain why Brexit is bad for the UK.

    That should sort out all the Leavers and waverers who weren't convinced by Obama, Carney, the IFS, the Pope... etc then.
    Leave have brought a water pistol to take on a battalion of Remain MLRS trucks.
    Another first class flyin, five star hotel stayin' pubic money guzzlin' lackey.
    Play the man and not the ball, why not try and rebut his arguments? Oh wait, you can't.
  • JonnyJimmyJonnyJimmy Posts: 2,548

    The Director General of the WTO will be coming to London in early June and explain why Brexit is bad for the UK.

    I guess, as a long term resident in Geneva, he'd know all about the horrors in stall for us outside the EU..
  • EstobarEstobar Posts: 558
    How does 44 - 38 = 8?

    I mean, if this is about the difference between undecideds and certains might it be possible to match the header and blurb to the graphic? Just a thought.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,411

    taffys said:

    Polruan said:

    The Director General of the WTO will be coming to London in early June and explain why Brexit is bad for the UK.

    That should sort out all the Leavers and waverers who weren't convinced by Obama, Carney, the IFS, the Pope... etc then.
    Leave have brought a water pistol to take on a battalion of Remain MLRS trucks.
    Another first class flyin, five star hotel stayin' pubic money guzzlin' lackey.
    Play the man and not the ball, why not try and rebut his arguments? Oh wait, you can't.
    Yes we can:

    Naught but REMAIN scaremongering!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,429
    edited May 2016

    The Director General of the WTO will be coming to London in early June and explain why Brexit is bad for the UK.


    If Remain was really confident of a win, they wouldn't keep asking for help from outsiders.

    They're not being complacent, and I suspect he won't be the last person to intervene.

    But what does the DG of the World Trade Organisation know about World Trade.
  • EstobarEstobar Posts: 558

    Polruan said:

    Oh and 44-38 = 8?

    56 - 44 = 8

    Mike's talking about the repercentaged figures when DKs have been excluded.
    Keep flying that indefensible flag TSE
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753

    The Director General of the WTO will be coming to London in early June and explain why Brexit is bad for the UK.


    If Remain was really confident of a win, they wouldn't keep asking for help from outsiders.

    They're not being complacent, and I suspect he won't be the last person to intervene.

    But what does the DG of the World Trade Organisation know about World Trade.
    Wonder what he thinks of the common agricultural policy.

    Is he off to France to lecture them on that?
  • glwglw Posts: 10,019
    MP_SE said:

    Europhiles seem to favour protectionist and nanny state policies. Mandatory quotas on what the likes of Netflix have to show will not drive up standards.

    If you want to watch trendy Scandinavian noir there is nothing stopping you from buying a DVD or signing up to a streaming service that does offer it.

    It doesn't seem to have occurred to them that people are actually choosing to pay for the likes of Netflix, Amazon Prime, and Now TV, and those viewers can drop a service at will if they aren't happy. If there was a substantial demand for European produced TV shows somebody would likely provide it at a low cost, you certainly wouldn't need to set a quota if it was something we really wanted, companies would be fighting for the rights.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,411

    The Director General of the WTO will be coming to London in early June and explain why Brexit is bad for the UK.


    If Remain was really confident of a win, they wouldn't keep asking for help from outsiders.

    They're not being complacent, and I suspect he won't be the last person to intervene.

    But what does the DG of the World Trade Organisation know about World Trade.
    https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/734794151875760130
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083

    Polruan said:

    Oh and 44-38 = 8?

    56 - 44 = 8

    Mike's talking about the repercentaged figures when DKs have been excluded.
    Yes, sorry, misread that. What are the comparatives in brackets against, though? Presumably it's an unlisted previous Survation.

    I see this as 53.66 - 46.34 = 7.32 which correctly rounds to 7 though (creates an error to round at headline stage then calculate the difference). The predecessor looks like 54.22 - 45.78 giving a remain lead of 8.44.

    To round off the objectless pedantry, excluding DKs, that means Remain lost 13.27% of its lead between those two polls.
  • EstobarEstobar Posts: 558
    edited May 2016

    The Director General of the WTO will be coming to London in early June and explain why Brexit is bad for the UK.


    If Remain was really confident of a win, they wouldn't keep asking for help from outsiders.

    But what does the DG of the World Trade Organisation know about World Trade.
    Yep, the people at the top of these international quangos are always to be trusted. I mean, just look at Christine Lagarde. Oh wait.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,343

    Polruan said:

    Oh and 44-38 = 8?

    56 - 44 = 8

    Mike's talking about the repercentaged figures when DKs have been excluded.
    In what world does 56-44 = 8?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,429
    MaxPB said:

    Polruan said:

    Oh and 44-38 = 8?

    56 - 44 = 8

    Mike's talking about the repercentaged figures when DKs have been excluded.
    In what world does 56-44 = 8?
    Oops, I meant 54 - 46 = 8
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    glw said:

    A big positive as far as I am concerned!

    I would much rather have a diet of Scandanavian Noir, Spanish Cinema and even German comedy to the cast offs of middle american pap. I don't mind a bit of that stuff but I do want variety.

    Too often we get the choice of dozens of identical programmes with only an illusion of choice.

    If people actually wanted to "have a diet of Scandanavian Noir, Spanish Cinema and even German comedy" the likes of Netflix would provide it. Netflix would have no trouble licensing such "entertainment" and can easily afford to do so.

    Netflix unlike the European Commission has a huge amount of data, maybe more than any other organisation on Earth, which reveals what people really want to watch. They take that data and use it to select the programmes they license and produce. Apparently the European Commission thinks it knows Netflix's customers better than Netflix, I doubt that they are correct.
    Netflix also carry a lot of content because it's cheap, and don't carry a lot because it's expensive/exclusive. Some of their crap stuff is watched because it's there and presumably most of their data about what people "want" to watch is actually what people choose to watch from the limited selection available on Netflix.

    If you locked hungry people in KFC for a week, the consumption data wouldn't prove that fried chicken was what they really wanted to eat.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    It's a conspiracy...

    @sunny_hundal: Just spoke to Sister Sledge's US rep. Sal Michaels: he confirms they've pulled out of the Brexit concert https://t.co/iZPYQfHtyH
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    And who is this lucky solitary taxpayer?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @GuidoFawkes: Errr, @andywigmore are E17 only band still in for your B-pop gig? Coz you know their big hit was "Stay Another Day"? https://t.co/yVxf0wQybc
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,387
    glw said:

    MP_SE said:

    Europhiles seem to favour protectionist and nanny state policies. Mandatory quotas on what the likes of Netflix have to show will not drive up standards.

    If you want to watch trendy Scandinavian noir there is nothing stopping you from buying a DVD or signing up to a streaming service that does offer it.

    If there was a substantial demand for European produced TV shows somebody would likely provide it at a low cost....
    Walter Presents. Some cracking stuff on there.
  • glwglw Posts: 10,019

    glw said:

    MP_SE said:

    Europhiles seem to favour protectionist and nanny state policies. Mandatory quotas on what the likes of Netflix have to show will not drive up standards.

    If you want to watch trendy Scandinavian noir there is nothing stopping you from buying a DVD or signing up to a streaming service that does offer it.

    If there was a substantial demand for European produced TV shows somebody would likely provide it at a low cost....
    Walter Presents. Some cracking stuff on there.
    Indeed, and a much better way of promoting such shows than by setting a quota.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,411
    Scott_P said:

    @GuidoFawkes: Errr, @andywigmore are E17 only band still in for your B-pop gig? Coz you know their big hit was "Stay Another Day"? https://t.co/yVxf0wQybc

    LEAVE in Silence, Depeche Mode:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVu6Wihbp4Q
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,429
    Scott_P said:

    @GuidoFawkes: Errr, @andywigmore are E17 only band still in for your B-pop gig? Coz you know their big hit was "Stay Another Day"? https://t.co/yVxf0wQybc

    House of Love was their best song.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,935
    Estobar said:

    The Director General of the WTO will be coming to London in early June and explain why Brexit is bad for the UK.


    If Remain was really confident of a win, they wouldn't keep asking for help from outsiders.

    But what does the DG of the World Trade Organisation know about World Trade.
    Yep, the people at the top of these international quangos are always to be trusted. I mean, just look at Christine Lagarde. Oh wait.
    The heads of international bodies - whether the IMF or the World Bank or the WTO - desire stability. That's where their interest lies, and anything which threatens to destabilise is to be discouraged.

    They do not have the interests of the British people in mind. But that does not make them stooges of Remain or David Cameron. It makes them people who have their own interests and who promote those interests relentlessly; as they should, as it is their job to do so.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,429

    Scott_P said:

    @GuidoFawkes: Errr, @andywigmore are E17 only band still in for your B-pop gig? Coz you know their big hit was "Stay Another Day"? https://t.co/yVxf0wQybc

    LEAVE in Silence, Depeche Mode:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVu6Wihbp4Q
    If Remain wins, it's clear the UK just can't get enough of the EU.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,411

    Scott_P said:

    @GuidoFawkes: Errr, @andywigmore are E17 only band still in for your B-pop gig? Coz you know their big hit was "Stay Another Day"? https://t.co/yVxf0wQybc

    LEAVE in Silence, Depeche Mode:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVu6Wihbp4Q
    If Remain wins, it's clear the UK just can't get enough of the EU.
    What can I say?
    I don't wanna play any more
    What can I say?
    I'm heading for the door
    I can't stand this emotional violence
    LEAVE IN SILENCE
  • glwglw Posts: 10,019
    Polruan said:

    Netflix also carry a lot of content because it's cheap, and don't carry a lot because it's expensive/exclusive. Some of their crap stuff is watched because it's there and presumably most of their data about what people "want" to watch is actually what people choose to watch from the limited selection available on Netflix.

    If you locked hungry people in KFC for a week, the consumption data wouldn't prove that fried chicken was what they really wanted to eat.

    I think that's a bogus argument. If you aren't happy with Netflix you can simply cancel it. There are many other TV and film streaming services to choose from, as well as conventional broadcasting, and DVDs etc.

    Netflix is enormously popular, particularly in the US, with higher satisfaction scores than other rivals and broadcasters, and ever increasing viewing figures. Maybe they are actually doing a good job, and giving people what they want for a fair price, and I find it utterly implausible that anyone else can do a better job of figuring out what programming they should be buying or making.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,935
    Estobar said:

    The Director General of the WTO will be coming to London in early June and explain why Brexit is bad for the UK.


    If Remain was really confident of a win, they wouldn't keep asking for help from outsiders.

    But what does the DG of the World Trade Organisation know about World Trade.
    Yep, the people at the top of these international quangos are always to be trusted. I mean, just look at Christine Lagarde. Oh wait.
    As an aside, why would you think that Lagarde is personally untrustworthy? I know several people that have worked with her, and all - irrespective of their political views - hold her in high regard. (Certainly compared to other French politicians and functionaries they've worked with.)
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    FPT

    I understand that the case for saying the online polls overstate Leave is that Leavers are more politically engaged and probably older/retired so have more time to answer online surveys. This (allegedly) means they are likely to respond more quickly than Remainers and because online polling systems stop accepting responses from the various defined groups of voters when sampling quotas have been filled if the split of Leave/Remain amongst quick responders is not the same as the population as a whole the result of the poll will be unrepresentative.

    This theory seems to have some logic to it - and clearly the punters and bookies believe it - but what is the counter-argument against phone polling? If we accept the online polls are right the phone polls must exaggerate Remain so why would Remainers be more likely to respond to phone calls than Leavers?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,790
    Polruan said:

    glw said:

    A big positive as far as I am concerned!

    I would much rather have a diet of Scandanavian Noir, Spanish Cinema and even German comedy to the cast offs of middle american pap. I don't mind a bit of that stuff but I do want variety.

    Too often we get the choice of dozens of identical programmes with only an illusion of choice.

    If people actually wanted to "have a diet of Scandanavian Noir, Spanish Cinema and even German comedy" the likes of Netflix would provide it. Netflix would have no trouble licensing such "entertainment" and can easily afford to do so.

    Netflix unlike the European Commission has a huge amount of data, maybe more than any other organisation on Earth, which reveals what people really want to watch. They take that data and use it to select the programmes they license and produce. Apparently the European Commission thinks it knows Netflix's customers better than Netflix, I doubt that they are correct.
    Netflix also carry a lot of content because it's cheap, and don't carry a lot because it's expensive/exclusive. Some of their crap stuff is watched because it's there and presumably most of their data about what people "want" to watch is actually what people choose to watch from the limited selection available on Netflix.

    If you locked hungry people in KFC for a week, the consumption data wouldn't prove that fried chicken was what they really wanted to eat.

    If people should be allowed to watch what they want on Netflix, why shouldn't they be allowed to employ who they like?

  • taffys said:
    I thought Ian Smith had died. His ghost must be upset about the EU nicking their national anthem.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,790
    Estobar said:

    The Director General of the WTO will be coming to London in early June and explain why Brexit is bad for the UK.


    If Remain was really confident of a win, they wouldn't keep asking for help from outsiders.

    But what does the DG of the World Trade Organisation know about World Trade.
    Yep, the people at the top of these international quangos are always to be trusted. I mean, just look at Christine Lagarde. Oh wait.

    Presumably we are allowed to trust anyone who advocates the Leave position?

  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Murray will have to go five sets to win against French wild card Bourgue.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663

    Scott_P said:

    @GuidoFawkes: Errr, @andywigmore are E17 only band still in for your B-pop gig? Coz you know their big hit was "Stay Another Day"? https://t.co/yVxf0wQybc

    LEAVE in Silence, Depeche Mode:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVu6Wihbp4Q
    If Remain wins, it's clear the UK just can't get enough of the EU.
    The vote will be about as enthusiastic as a visit to the dentist.
  • Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: WTO boss: "pretty much all" UK global trade has to be negotiated post Brexit. Brits "will have to pay" £9bn tariffs: https://t.co/bdhF0cxE6u

    Poor Roberto Azevêdo, does he know the opprobrium he's letting himself in for from the Leavers.

    That said, sales of tinfoil are going to go through the roof.
    However did all the states that have become independent since 1989 manage to avoid utter ruin.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,411
    JackW said:
    REMAINERs don't want Britain to be an independent sovereign nation.

    Just let that sink in for a minute.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753

    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: WTO boss: "pretty much all" UK global trade has to be negotiated post Brexit. Brits "will have to pay" £9bn tariffs: https://t.co/bdhF0cxE6u

    Poor Roberto Azevêdo, does he know the opprobrium he's letting himself in for from the Leavers.

    That said, sales of tinfoil are going to go through the roof.
    However did all the states that have become independent since 1989 manage to avoid utter ruin.
    Presumably they got a lecture as well...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,429

    Scott_P said:

    @GuidoFawkes: Errr, @andywigmore are E17 only band still in for your B-pop gig? Coz you know their big hit was "Stay Another Day"? https://t.co/yVxf0wQybc

    LEAVE in Silence, Depeche Mode:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVu6Wihbp4Q
    If Remain wins, it's clear the UK just can't get enough of the EU.
    What can I say?
    I don't wanna play any more
    What can I say?
    I'm heading for the door
    I can't stand this emotional violence
    LEAVE IN SILENCE
    There's a very obvious EU/UK and Master and Servant gag to be made, surprised you missed it.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,411

    Scott_P said:

    @GuidoFawkes: Errr, @andywigmore are E17 only band still in for your B-pop gig? Coz you know their big hit was "Stay Another Day"? https://t.co/yVxf0wQybc

    LEAVE in Silence, Depeche Mode:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVu6Wihbp4Q
    If Remain wins, it's clear the UK just can't get enough of the EU.
    What can I say?
    I don't wanna play any more
    What can I say?
    I'm heading for the door
    I can't stand this emotional violence
    LEAVE IN SILENCE
    There's a very obvious EU/UK and Master and Servant gag to be made, surprised you missed it.
    EU = our Masters
    UK = their servants

    Time to #Brexit
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,935

    JackW said:
    REMAINERs don't want Britain to be an independent sovereign nation.

    Just let that sink in for a minute.
    So long as the UK has three power to unilaterally leave the EU via the repeal of the European Communities Act, it is sovereign. I don't see that changing, even if we do vote to Remain.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    glw said:

    MP_SE said:

    Europhiles seem to favour protectionist and nanny state policies. Mandatory quotas on what the likes of Netflix have to show will not drive up standards.

    If you want to watch trendy Scandinavian noir there is nothing stopping you from buying a DVD or signing up to a streaming service that does offer it.

    If there was a substantial demand for European produced TV shows somebody would likely provide it at a low cost....
    Walter Presents. Some cracking stuff on there.
    There is indeed. Deutschland 83 was a great glimpse of some of the excellent series that are not high enough profile.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,429
    rcs1000 said:

    JackW said:
    REMAINERs don't want Britain to be an independent sovereign nation.

    Just let that sink in for a minute.
    So long as the UK has three power to unilaterally leave the EU via the repeal of the European Communities Act, it is sovereign. I don't see that changing, even if we do vote to Remain.
    Indeed, it's an argument I can't understand. If we weren't sovereign, we wouldn't be having this referendum.
  • VapidBilgeVapidBilge Posts: 412
    Scott_P said:

    @faisalislam: WTO boss: "pretty much all" UK global trade has to be negotiated post Brexit. Brits "will have to pay" £9bn tariffs: https://t.co/bdhF0cxE6u

    No sh1t, Sherlock.

    UK leaves a free trade bloc and has to negotiate new trade agreements into order to avoid WTO 2% tariffs, ignoring a depreciated pound.

    How does this guy know how much tariff we will pay? The deals haven't been negotiated yet. He also seems to have forgotten that Britain has a thumping great trade deficit and so should GAIN from tariffs, if we want to.

    I think the lesson we should draw is that Civil Servants don't like extra work foisted upon them.

    Perhaps they should be reminded they serve us, not the other way round.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    rcs1000 said:

    JackW said:
    REMAINERs don't want Britain to be an independent sovereign nation.

    Just let that sink in for a minute.
    So long as the UK has three power to unilaterally leave the EU via the repeal of the European Communities Act, it is sovereign. I don't see that changing, even if we do vote to Remain.
    Forgive me if I don;t take that as a guarantee of centuries of rights, regularly bought in blood.

    Still, your words will be a comfort when I have to rot in a foreign jail for months for non-payment of euro taxes.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,411

    rcs1000 said:

    JackW said:
    REMAINERs don't want Britain to be an independent sovereign nation.

    Just let that sink in for a minute.
    So long as the UK has three power to unilaterally leave the EU via the repeal of the European Communities Act, it is sovereign. I don't see that changing, even if we do vote to Remain.
    Indeed, it's an argument I can't understand. If we weren't sovereign, we wouldn't be having this referendum.
    We are sovereign for the moment, TSE.
    LEAVING is the best way to ensure we retain that sovereignty for our children and their children.

    Believe in BRITAIN!

    Be LEAVE!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,375

    Alex Wickham
    BOOM. Eddie Izzard's election hotel bills declared as national spend despite clearly being part of local campaign: https://t.co/ey1FEsYSbD

    So, as casual with expenses as with Antisemitism :-)
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    REMAINERs don't want Britain to be an independent sovereign nation.

    Just let that sink in for a minute.

    Please do not shout at me in bold.

    I'm perfectly capable on understanding your LEAVE propaganda without undue emphasis.



  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,367
    "If Remain wins, it's clear the UK just can't get enough of the EU."

    Mr Eagles. I agree. If Remain win, then Remainers should support further integration because it's what they are voting for.

    That's where it varies from the Scottish Referendum. Winning meant a little more devolution.

    Remain winning means less independence, a rump Parliament, a common currency, a European army, and a European defence policy. There's no pretence, but they just don't say it out loud.

    Well done for your honesty.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,790
    rcs1000 said:

    Estobar said:

    The Director General of the WTO will be coming to London in early June and explain why Brexit is bad for the UK.


    If Remain was really confident of a win, they wouldn't keep asking for help from outsiders.

    But what does the DG of the World Trade Organisation know about World Trade.
    Yep, the people at the top of these international quangos are always to be trusted. I mean, just look at Christine Lagarde. Oh wait.
    The heads of international bodies - whether the IMF or the World Bank or the WTO - desire stability. That's where their interest lies, and anything which threatens to destabilise is to be discouraged.

    They do not have the interests of the British people in mind. But that does not make them stooges of Remain or David Cameron. It makes them people who have their own interests and who promote those interests relentlessly; as they should, as it is their job to do so.

    I disagree that they do not have the best interests of the British people in mind. It's just that you do not agree with their assessment. They think that stability is currently in the UK's best interests, as someone who (I think) is very interested in disruption as a means to grow and create opportunity, you probably don't.

    I'd say a strong - though tangential - reason for sticking with the status quo is the damage that Brexit could do to what looks like it may be the stirrings of a nascent recovery in many parts of Europe. The last thing anyone wants now, surely, is a period of uncertainty and anything that knocks business and investor confidence. Should there be a negative market reaction to Brexit - and at the very least that is not out of the question - then it will have an impact across the EU. And that is something that will be very bad news for us too.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,411
    JackW said:

    REMAINERs don't want Britain to be an independent sovereign nation.

    Just let that sink in for a minute.

    Please do not shout at me in bold.

    I'm perfectly capable on understanding your LEAVE propaganda without undue emphasis.



    Naught but pro-REMAIN propaganda from Jack :lol:
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,429

    rcs1000 said:

    JackW said:
    REMAINERs don't want Britain to be an independent sovereign nation.

    Just let that sink in for a minute.
    So long as the UK has three power to unilaterally leave the EU via the repeal of the European Communities Act, it is sovereign. I don't see that changing, even if we do vote to Remain.
    Indeed, it's an argument I can't understand. If we weren't sovereign, we wouldn't be having this referendum.
    We are sovereign for the moment, TSE.
    LEAVING is the best way to ensure we retain that sovereignty for our children and their children.

    Believe in BRITAIN!

    Be LEAVE!
    If we Remain, we can Leave in the future, we can declare war on the French if we need to, we can fire our nukes at French.

    All signs of a sovereign nation.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,411

    rcs1000 said:

    JackW said:
    REMAINERs don't want Britain to be an independent sovereign nation.

    Just let that sink in for a minute.
    So long as the UK has three power to unilaterally leave the EU via the repeal of the European Communities Act, it is sovereign. I don't see that changing, even if we do vote to Remain.
    Indeed, it's an argument I can't understand. If we weren't sovereign, we wouldn't be having this referendum.
    We are sovereign for the moment, TSE.
    LEAVING is the best way to ensure we retain that sovereignty for our children and their children.

    Believe in BRITAIN!

    Be LEAVE!
    If we Remain, we can Leave in the future, we can declare war on the French if we need to, we can fire our nukes at French.

    All signs of a sovereign nation.
    Yebbut why LEAVE in the future when we can get out now?

    BTW won't the French use their nukes against us?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,429
    CD13 said:

    "If Remain wins, it's clear the UK just can't get enough of the EU."

    Mr Eagles. I agree. If Remain win, then Remainers should support further integration because it's what they are voting for.

    That's where it varies from the Scottish Referendum. Winning meant a little more devolution.

    Remain winning means less independence, a rump Parliament, a common currency, a European army, and a European defence policy. There's no pretence, but they just don't say it out loud.

    Well done for your honesty.

    You're reading too much into my very subtle pop music references.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,253
    edited May 2016



    REMAINERs don't want Britain to be an independent sovereign nation.

    Just let that sink in for a minute.

    Yes we do.

    It's LEAVERs who think we aren't (yet are somehow holding a referendum...)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,429

    rcs1000 said:

    JackW said:
    REMAINERs don't want Britain to be an independent sovereign nation.

    Just let that sink in for a minute.
    So long as the UK has three power to unilaterally leave the EU via the repeal of the European Communities Act, it is sovereign. I don't see that changing, even if we do vote to Remain.
    Indeed, it's an argument I can't understand. If we weren't sovereign, we wouldn't be having this referendum.
    We are sovereign for the moment, TSE.
    LEAVING is the best way to ensure we retain that sovereignty for our children and their children.

    Believe in BRITAIN!

    Be LEAVE!
    If we Remain, we can Leave in the future, we can declare war on the French if we need to, we can fire our nukes at French.

    All signs of a sovereign nation.
    Yebbut why LEAVE in the future when we can get out now?

    BTW won't the French use their nukes against us?
    No, there's a reason why the French are known as Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,935
    taffys said:

    rcs1000 said:

    JackW said:
    REMAINERs don't want Britain to be an independent sovereign nation.

    Just let that sink in for a minute.
    So long as the UK has three power to unilaterally leave the EU via the repeal of the European Communities Act, it is sovereign. I don't see that changing, even if we do vote to Remain.
    Forgive me if I don;t take that as a guarantee of centuries of rights, regularly bought in blood.

    Still, your words will be a comfort when I have to rot in a foreign jail for months for non-payment of euro taxes.
    You can spend months in a foreign jail for the non payment of US taxes today, if you haven't correctly accounted for services delivered to a US company from a UK company.

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    JackW said:

    REMAINERs don't want Britain to be an independent sovereign nation.

    Just let that sink in for a minute.

    Please do not shout at me in bold.

    I'm perfectly capable on understanding your LEAVE propaganda without undue emphasis.



    Naught but pro-REMAIN propaganda from Jack :lol:
    Jack is a living example that not all oldies are for leave

  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    General Rose's comments on how EU law restricts UK combat effectiveness are devastating and expose Remain's outrageous lies about us being 'safer' in the EU.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,429
    Donald Trump signed off on a controversial business deal that was designed to deprive the US Government of tens of millions of dollars in tax, the Telegraph can disclose.

    The billionaire approved a $50 million investment in a company – only for the deal to be rewritten several weeks later as a ‘loan’.

    Experts say that the effect of this move was to skirt vast tax liabilities, and court papers seen by the Telegraph allege that the deal amounted to fraud.

    Independent tax accountants and lawyers said that the documents Mr Trump signed – copies of which were obtained by this newspaper as part of a three-month investigation - contained “red flags” indicating the deal was irregular.

    But the Republican presumptive presidential nominee signed nonetheless.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/25/exclusive-donald-trump-signed-off-deal-designed-to-deprive-us-of/
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    rcs1000 said:

    taffys said:

    rcs1000 said:

    JackW said:
    REMAINERs don't want Britain to be an independent sovereign nation.

    Just let that sink in for a minute.
    So long as the UK has three power to unilaterally leave the EU via the repeal of the European Communities Act, it is sovereign. I don't see that changing, even if we do vote to Remain.
    Forgive me if I don;t take that as a guarantee of centuries of rights, regularly bought in blood.

    Still, your words will be a comfort when I have to rot in a foreign jail for months for non-payment of euro taxes.
    You can spend months in a foreign jail for the non payment of US taxes today, if you haven't correctly accounted for services delivered to a US company from a UK company.

    Without an extradition hearing at a UK court? Are you sure about that?
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,367
    Mr Eagles,

    "You're reading too much into my very subtle pop music references."

    Very probably, but there's truth in jest. The direction of travel is consistent and I remember 1975 very well.

    "Political Union? We're voting on a Common Market." There was no reference to tinfoil hats but the 1975 equivalent was swivel-eyed and Tony Benn.

    One of the few things he got right.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    So we've had Lagarde, Obama, Brown, Blair, Cameron, Osborne, the IMF, the OECD, the IFS, NIESR, no doubt B and Q, MFI, TGIF, C and A and every other acronym telling us how awful it will all be.

    I wonder if they will be stupid enough to roll out Merkel and Hollande to try it as well.

    And still....only 21% of people believe they will be personally worse off if we leave the EU. :smile:

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,411

    CD13 said:

    "If Remain wins, it's clear the UK just can't get enough of the EU."

    Mr Eagles. I agree. If Remain win, then Remainers should support further integration because it's what they are voting for.

    That's where it varies from the Scottish Referendum. Winning meant a little more devolution.

    Remain winning means less independence, a rump Parliament, a common currency, a European army, and a European defence policy. There's no pretence, but they just don't say it out loud.

    Well done for your honesty.

    You're reading too much into my very subtle pop music references.

    If we stay in the EU, we'll be staring down the Barrel Of A Gun.

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,935
    taffys said:

    rcs1000 said:

    taffys said:

    rcs1000 said:

    JackW said:
    REMAINERs don't want Britain to be an independent sovereign nation.

    Just let that sink in for a minute.
    So long as the UK has three power to unilaterally leave the EU via the repeal of the European Communities Act, it is sovereign. I don't see that changing, even if we do vote to Remain.
    Forgive me if I don;t take that as a guarantee of centuries of rights, regularly bought in blood.

    Still, your words will be a comfort when I have to rot in a foreign jail for months for non-payment of euro taxes.
    You can spend months in a foreign jail for the non payment of US taxes today, if you haven't correctly accounted for services delivered to a US company from a UK company.

    Without an extradition hearing at a UK court? Are you sure about that?
    You do need to be extradited. But the extradition treaty we've signed with the US is so broad as regards US tax evasion, and the subject matter so complex, that your extradition is a virtual inevitability.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,411

    rcs1000 said:

    JackW said:
    REMAINERs don't want Britain to be an independent sovereign nation.

    Just let that sink in for a minute.
    So long as the UK has three power to unilaterally leave the EU via the repeal of the European Communities Act, it is sovereign. I don't see that changing, even if we do vote to Remain.
    Indeed, it's an argument I can't understand. If we weren't sovereign, we wouldn't be having this referendum.
    We are sovereign for the moment, TSE.
    LEAVING is the best way to ensure we retain that sovereignty for our children and their children.

    Believe in BRITAIN!

    Be LEAVE!
    If we Remain, we can Leave in the future, we can declare war on the French if we need to, we can fire our nukes at French.

    All signs of a sovereign nation.
    Yebbut why LEAVE in the future when we can get out now?

    BTW won't the French use their nukes against us?
    No, there's a reason why the French are known as Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys.
    But what Yorktown? Austerlitz? Friedland?
  • PolruanPolruan Posts: 2,083
    glw said:

    Polruan said:

    Netflix also carry a lot of content because it's cheap, and don't carry a lot because it's expensive/exclusive. Some of their crap stuff is watched because it's there and presumably most of their data about what people "want" to watch is actually what people choose to watch from the limited selection available on Netflix.

    If you locked hungry people in KFC for a week, the consumption data wouldn't prove that fried chicken was what they really wanted to eat.

    I think that's a bogus argument. If you aren't happy with Netflix you can simply cancel it. There are many other TV and film streaming services to choose from, as well as conventional broadcasting, and DVDs etc.

    Netflix is enormously popular, particularly in the US, with higher satisfaction scores than other rivals and broadcasters, and ever increasing viewing figures. Maybe they are actually doing a good job, and giving people what they want for a fair price, and I find it utterly implausible that anyone else can do a better job of figuring out what programming they should be buying or making.
    To be fair, US Netflix is a fair bit better than UK Netflix. Overall I find it worth the price but it's frustrating how many streaming services you need to patch together to get the stuff you want. I'm just not convinced that the absence of certain things reflects the lack of demand, more that Netflix do enough to keep subscribers despite those absences. I'd happily pay 2-3 times more for a single comprehensive provider.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @jimwaterson: East 17 pull out Brexit the music festival. We need to save this event and make sure it goes ahead, for the sake of journalists everywhere.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,411
    Scott_P said:

    @jimwaterson: East 17 pull out Brexit the music festival. We need to save this event and make sure it goes ahead, for the sake of journalists everywhere.

    Accrington Stanley East 17? Who are they?

    :lol:
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,367
    Mr Eagles,

    "You're reading too much into my very subtle pop music references."

    Like this young American group ...

    "You can check out any time you like, But you can never leave."

    The Establishment didn't even try to be impartial in 1975, but they're made some effort this time. Not totally successfully though. But leaving? If Remain wins, you can kiss goodbye to any more Referenda - this has been too tight for comfort.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,411

    JackW said:

    REMAINERs don't want Britain to be an independent sovereign nation.

    Just let that sink in for a minute.

    Please do not shout at me in bold.

    I'm perfectly capable on understanding your LEAVE propaganda without undue emphasis.



    Naught but pro-REMAIN propaganda from Jack :lol:
    Jack is a living example that not all oldies are for leave

    Should we have you down as an oldie too, Mike?
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    rcs1000 said:

    taffys said:

    rcs1000 said:

    taffys said:

    rcs1000 said:

    JackW said:
    REMAINERs don't want Britain to be an independent sovereign nation.

    Just let that sink in for a minute.
    So long as the UK has three power to unilaterally leave the EU via the repeal of the European Communities Act, it is sovereign. I don't see that changing, even if we do vote to Remain.
    Forgive me if I don;t take that as a guarantee of centuries of rights, regularly bought in blood.

    Still, your words will be a comfort when I have to rot in a foreign jail for months for non-payment of euro taxes.
    You can spend months in a foreign jail for the non payment of US taxes today, if you haven't correctly accounted for services delivered to a US company from a UK company.

    Without an extradition hearing at a UK court? Are you sure about that?
    You do need to be extradited. But the extradition treaty we've signed with the US is so broad as regards US tax evasion, and the subject matter so complex, that your extradition is a virtual inevitability.
    OK but that's a pretty narrow field.

    Any EU state can summarily issue a warrant for your arrest and stick you in jail for months, for anything, without trial. Even something that's not a crime here.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,411



    REMAINERs don't want Britain to be an independent sovereign nation.

    Just let that sink in for a minute.

    Yes we do.

    It's LEAVERs who think we aren't (yet are somehow holding a referendum...)
    We are sovereign for the moment, Carlotta.
    LEAVING is the best way to ensure we retain that sovereignty for our children and their children.

    Believe in BRITAIN!

    Be LEAVE!
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Polruan said:

    glw said:

    Polruan said:

    Netflix also carry a lot of content because it's cheap, and don't carry a lot because it's expensive/exclusive. Some of their crap stuff is watched because it's there and presumably most of their data about what people "want" to watch is actually what people choose to watch from the limited selection available on Netflix.

    If you locked hungry people in KFC for a week, the consumption data wouldn't prove that fried chicken was what they really wanted to eat.

    I think that's a bogus argument. If you aren't happy with Netflix you can simply cancel it. There are many other TV and film streaming services to choose from, as well as conventional broadcasting, and DVDs etc.

    Netflix is enormously popular, particularly in the US, with higher satisfaction scores than other rivals and broadcasters, and ever increasing viewing figures. Maybe they are actually doing a good job, and giving people what they want for a fair price, and I find it utterly implausible that anyone else can do a better job of figuring out what programming they should be buying or making.
    To be fair, US Netflix is a fair bit better than UK Netflix. Overall I find it worth the price but it's frustrating how many streaming services you need to patch together to get the stuff you want. I'm just not convinced that the absence of certain things reflects the lack of demand, more that Netflix do enough to keep subscribers despite those absences. I'd happily pay 2-3 times more for a single comprehensive provider.
    Fox jr prefers Canadian Netfix as having greater variety, its really quite easy to do.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Och aye tha noo, my fellow independence supporters.

    Mr. P, I actually feel some sympathy for the 'Brexit' music organisers. It's not their fault moronic musicians signed up without realising that 'Brexit' was a reference to the UK leaving the EU.
  • GaiusGaius Posts: 227
    rcs1000 said:

    Estobar said:

    The Director General of the WTO will be coming to London in early June and explain why Brexit is bad for the UK.


    If Remain was really confident of a win, they wouldn't keep asking for help from outsiders.

    But what does the DG of the World Trade Organisation know about World Trade.
    Yep, the people at the top of these international quangos are always to be trusted. I mean, just look at Christine Lagarde. Oh wait.
    As an aside, why would you think that Lagarde is personally untrustworthy? I know several people that have worked with her, and all - irrespective of their political views - hold her in high regard. (Certainly compared to other French politicians and functionaries they've worked with.)
    This is hardly a ringing endorsement.

  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Polruan said:

    And who is this lucky solitary taxpayer?
    Why not answer the FQ?
  • saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    The more I read during this campaign the more leave remind me of a dog chasing cars. Absolutely desperate to catch one but absolutely no idea what to do with it. Year's of whining about a referendum then not a single idea about how to win it, when they get one.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,451
    Haven't we all felt like that about Mr Cameron recently? :smiley:
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,451
    saddened said:

    The more I read during this campaign the more leave remind me of a dog chasing cars. Absolutely desperate to catch one but absolutely no idea what to do with it. Year's of whining about a referendum then not a single idea about how to win it, when they get one.

    LEAVE'S campaign has left a lot to be desired... But given the weight of the entire UK and world order that's been thrown at it I'm surprised it's holding up as well as it is TBH.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756

    FPT

    I understand that the case for saying the online polls overstate Leave is that Leavers are more politically engaged and probably older/retired so have more time to answer online surveys. This (allegedly) means they are likely to respond more quickly than Remainers and because online polling systems stop accepting responses from the various defined groups of voters when sampling quotas have been filled if the split of Leave/Remain amongst quick responders is not the same as the population as a whole the result of the poll will be unrepresentative.

    This theory seems to have some logic to it - and clearly the punters and bookies believe it - but what is the counter-argument against phone polling? If we accept the online polls are right the phone polls must exaggerate Remain so why would Remainers be more likely to respond to phone calls than Leavers?

    Martin Boon thinks that telephone polls pick up too many left wing voters; Yougov think they pick up too many graduates. Both of these might skew the findings in favour of Remain.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Mr. Gin, I concur with your assessment of the campaigns and the support of Leave being oddly resilient. Perhaps that's indicative of how horrendous the EU is.
This discussion has been closed.