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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Re-formatting the EURef polling table so it strips out the

SystemSystem Posts: 11,697
edited May 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Re-formatting the EURef polling table so it strips out the don’t knows

The election is a month today and postal votes to overseas addresses are starting to be mailed out. To coincide I’m switching my regular polling table to election mode stripping out the don’t knows and just give the figures of those who had a voting intention.

Read the full story here


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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,554
    edited May 2016
    Splendid but don't Don't Knows historically break for the status quo.
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Clinton drifting...

    1.52
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited May 2016
    Ref: Leave column, - whoever chose that colour should be banished to ConHome for a week.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,052
    FPT:

    I'm not sure that "the recession that will follow Brexit will not be quite as severe as the Treasury is suggesting" is the answer to this point that Leave are looking for.

    Er no. The Open Europe analysis says it is very unlikely there will be any sort of recession. At worst we are looking at slower growth, not negative growth.

    "Overall, it is fair to say there will be a short term shock but going much beyond that is ultimately speculation. There are also a number of particularly pessimistic assumptions in the Treasury report which do not seem entirely realistic, especially around the policy response and the impact of the transitional effect which means buying into the Treasury’s longer term predictions and basing business decisions on them."
    Open Europe is also very sensible on TTIP, concluding it is no threat to the NHS. It also gives some important perspective on ISDS tribunals generally.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Do you do much stripping Mike ?!?
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    BBC - Austria result at 3:00pm
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,760

    Splendid but don't Don't Knows historically break for the status quo.

    or don't vote
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    https://twitter.com/enricapriami/status/734736715110305792

    Still a few more votes to come, I think...
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    RodCrosby said:

    https://twitter.com/enricapriami/status/734736715110305792

    Still a few more votes to come, I think...

    Error of ±0.7%? Comforting...!
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,760
    RodCrosby said:

    https://twitter.com/enricapriami/status/734736715110305792

    Still a few more votes to come, I think...

    That should favour VdB postal votes have been 60-40 in his direction
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Virginia - Roanoke College

    Clinton 38 .. Trump 38

    http://www.roanoke.edu/about/news/rc_poll_may_2016_general_election
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    Ref: Leave column, - whoever chose that colour should be banished to ConHome for a week.

    You ALWAYS have a positive colour for Remain and a negative one for Leave - didn't you know?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,966
    edited May 2016
    JackW said:

    Virginia - Roanoke College

    Clinton 38 .. Trump 38

    http://www.roanoke.edu/about/news/rc_poll_may_2016_general_election

    Virginia level o_O that is bad for Clinton !

    I have it solid blue in my model !
  • Options
    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    with 11 constituencies left to report Hofer was ahead by 1097 votes

    Van Der Bellen has now taken over by some hundreds with the final constituencies still to be added.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610

    Splendid but don't Don't Knows historically break for the status quo.

    Indeed, the YouGov on the eve of the IndyRef had all of the DKs break to for No which was the status quo. The only way to win for Leave is to show that Remain is not the status quo and that the status quo is not on offer.
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    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    Splendid but don't Don't Knows historically break for the status quo.

    Well as we all know - there is no status quo. It is either ever further integration or it is a clean break.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,966
    I can't see past FPP domination at the next https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Council_(Austria) elections to be totally honest.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,966

    with 11 constituencies left to report Hofer was ahead by 1097 votes

    Van Der Bellen has now taken over by some hundreds with the final constituencies still to be added.

    Do you have a linky ?
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    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited May 2016
    Some interesting findings from BES. Labour has a massive lead in the "never worked" voters.....
    "Although the working class votes for Labour seem to have fallen, it is not necessarily the case that they are gone for good. Labour does still have a working class lead in people who identify with a party. However, many of their identifiers either didn’t vote or defected to another party in 2015. "
    "Nonetheless because of the large scale shifts in occupational structure in Britain, only 34% of the UKIP vote comes from the traditional working class (routine and semi-routine NS-SEC classes). In fact nearly 20% of UKIP’s support comes from the lower professional class, more than from any other single source."
    http://www.britishelectionstudy.com/uncategorized/the-new-face-of-british-class-voting/#.V0MGOL76948
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    Pulpstar said:

    JackW said:

    Virginia - Roanoke College

    Clinton 38 .. Trump 38

    http://www.roanoke.edu/about/news/rc_poll_may_2016_general_election

    Virginia level o_O that is bad for Clinton !

    I have it solid blue in my model !
    Clinton down 14pts on the last poll, Trump up 3 :D
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    edited May 2016
    Defending French Open champion Wawrinka will have to go to five sets to get past his first round opponent Rosol.

    Wawrinka is seeded 3 and in Murray's half of the draw.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    So in the last week Remain varies between 48 & 60, Leave between 40 and 52.

    They're all guessing, so are punters.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,554

    Ref: Leave column, - whoever chose that colour should be banished to ConHome for a week.

    Is the colour of Grassroots Out. There's even an tie in that colour
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,966
    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    JackW said:

    Virginia - Roanoke College

    Clinton 38 .. Trump 38

    http://www.roanoke.edu/about/news/rc_poll_may_2016_general_election

    Virginia level o_O that is bad for Clinton !

    I have it solid blue in my model !
    Clinton down 14pts on the last poll, Trump up 3 :D
    VA is demographically trending blue too, you'd have to fancy Trump in North Carolina based off this poll tbh.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,966
    https://www.predictit.org/Market/2056/Who-will-be-elected-president-of-Austria-in-the-2016-election argh 15% return in a few minutes !

    Can Predictit PLEASE be released in UK !
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610
    weejonnie said:

    Splendid but don't Don't Knows historically break for the status quo.

    Well as we all know - there is no status quo. It is either ever further integration or it is a clean break.
    Unfortunately few in the Leave camp are making that argument, they are letting the Remain side push the idea that a vote for remain is a vote for the status quo, this is where the election will be won and lost. Very few people in the UK wish to be part of the EU superstate, Leave needs to show that a Remain vote clears the way for this to be achieved and that we will be a part of it or be carping from the sidelines completely and utterly ignored given our opt-outs. We need to be completely in or completely out, Remain is a vote for completely in.
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    anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,578

    Splendid but don't Don't Knows historically break for the status quo.

    or don't vote
    FWIW my experience after another doorstep session in South London yesterday is that there is a higher number of don't knows than the polling reflects. Locally we find Remain ahead by a considerable margin but more don't knows than Leaves. I do not have precise figures but I'd say it's roughly; 60% remain, 25% DK and 15% leave. This an area of inner London where you would expect a high Remain vote. There are virtually no Leaves anywhere except in social housing blocks - residents of private property - both owned and rented - are solid for Remain, with a few DK. I would expect most of the DK to go Remain on the day.

    There is a lot of interest and the RO's office at the Council has said it has been overwhelmed with queries from electors. So looks like a high turnout can be expected.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    So in the last week Remain varies between 48 & 60, Leave between 40 and 52.

    They're all guessing, so are punters.

    No, guessing is what we did in Oldham when in the absence of polling we imagined UKIP had a cat's chance in hell of taking a north-west seat from Labour.
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,676
    Pulpstar said:

    https://www.predictit.org/Market/2056/Who-will-be-elected-president-of-Austria-in-the-2016-election argh 15% return in a few minutes !

    Can Predictit PLEASE be released in UK !

    Pre-Dic-Tit? Shan't click that link!
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Politico Daily
    Sturgeon blasts the Treasury's "overblown" Brexit claims "we should be trying to enthuse people about this vote, not trying to scare them"
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985

    Pulpstar said:

    https://www.predictit.org/Market/2056/Who-will-be-elected-president-of-Austria-in-the-2016-election argh 15% return in a few minutes !

    Can Predictit PLEASE be released in UK !

    Pre-Dic-Tit? Shan't click that link!
    Commonly called dinner and a bottle of plonk. ;)
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    NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    edited May 2016
    If you ignore the outlier Ipsos MORI poll, phone polling actually hasn't changed much throughout the period, Comres for example being exactly the same on Apr 15 as May 15. The more interesting equation is whether the online polls have picked up a subtle shift to Remain, for me these will be the polls to look out for this week.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Wanderer said:

    So in the last week Remain varies between 48 & 60, Leave between 40 and 52.

    They're all guessing, so are punters.

    No, guessing is what we did in Oldham when in the absence of polling we imagined UKIP had a cat's chance in hell of taking a north-west seat from Labour.
    I don't remember anybody giving Ukip a cat in hell's chance.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Oh my

    Ian Wishart
    Exclusive: Euro area to lend Greece 11bn euros in next bailout disbursement
    https://t.co/Bd7P8FrGwT
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    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    MaxPB said:

    weejonnie said:

    Splendid but don't Don't Knows historically break for the status quo.

    Well as we all know - there is no status quo. It is either ever further integration or it is a clean break.
    Unfortunately few in the Leave camp are making that argument, they are letting the Remain side push the idea that a vote for remain is a vote for the status quo, this is where the election will be won and lost. Very few people in the UK wish to be part of the EU superstate, Leave needs to show that a Remain vote clears the way for this to be achieved and that we will be a part of it or be carping from the sidelines completely and utterly ignored given our opt-outs. We need to be completely in or completely out, Remain is a vote for completely in.
    Well the treasury says that this referendum will settle things FOR ALL TIME. So LEAVE have TWO pieces of ammunition that together would be very effective.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Oh my

    Ian Wishart
    Exclusive: Euro area to lend Greece 11bn euros in next bailout disbursement
    https://t.co/Bd7P8FrGwT

    Reminds me of the young man who comes up with a guaranteed formula backing horses, he writes home saying:

    System working well, please send more money.

    Lending money to Greece is like throwing it out of a hot air balloon.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,998
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Twitter seems to think Hofer has lost.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,420

    Wanderer said:

    So in the last week Remain varies between 48 & 60, Leave between 40 and 52.

    They're all guessing, so are punters.

    No, guessing is what we did in Oldham when in the absence of polling we imagined UKIP had a cat's chance in hell of taking a north-west seat from Labour.
    I don't remember anybody giving Ukip a cat in hell's chance.
    Quite a few did based on the historic results in the constituency, the Heywood & Middleton result in 2014 not all that far away in 2014, UKIP's continuing reasonable national share and a perception that Corbyn might not necessarily appeal to northern WWC types.

    It wasn't wholly absurd though as it turned out, it was wrong.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Splendid but don't Don't Knows historically break for the status quo.

    What status quo - one side is leave - the other is super humongous radical Cammo style renegotiation.
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    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256

    Oh my

    Ian Wishart
    Exclusive: Euro area to lend Greece 11bn euros in next bailout disbursement
    https://t.co/Bd7P8FrGwT

    What do you expect? If they do not keep buying off the Greeks they will have a Grexit as well as a Brexit.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,966
    edited May 2016

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Twitter seems to think Hofer has lost.

    Yes he has lost.

    But I'd still like to know the numbers :)
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    DoubleCarpetDoubleCarpet Posts: 708
    From the Die Presse live ticker:

    Van der Bellen now has 12,855 vote lead

    Only Salzburg, Innsbruck, Bregenz and Feldkirch to come
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610
    Pulpstar said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Twitter seems to think Hofer has lost.

    Yes he has lost.

    But I'd still like to know the numbers :)
    One wonders if there will be a recount.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Wanderer said:

    So in the last week Remain varies between 48 & 60, Leave between 40 and 52.

    They're all guessing, so are punters.

    No, guessing is what we did in Oldham when in the absence of polling we imagined UKIP had a cat's chance in hell of taking a north-west seat from Labour.
    I don't remember anybody giving Ukip a cat in hell's chance.
    Quite a few did based on the historic results in the constituency, the Heywood & Middleton result in 2014 not all that far away in 2014, UKIP's continuing reasonable national share and a perception that Corbyn might not necessarily appeal to northern WWC types.

    It wasn't wholly absurd though as it turned out, it was wrong.
    Quite a few hoped Ukip would win, that's an entirely different matter.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,998
    I wonder if Hofer and his party will see this as a high tide from which their support recedes, or if they can build on the result.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,420

    Wanderer said:

    So in the last week Remain varies between 48 & 60, Leave between 40 and 52.

    They're all guessing, so are punters.

    No, guessing is what we did in Oldham when in the absence of polling we imagined UKIP had a cat's chance in hell of taking a north-west seat from Labour.
    I don't remember anybody giving Ukip a cat in hell's chance.
    Quite a few did based on the historic results in the constituency, the Heywood & Middleton result in 2014 not all that far away in 2014, UKIP's continuing reasonable national share and a perception that Corbyn might not necessarily appeal to northern WWC types.

    It wasn't wholly absurd though as it turned out, it was wrong.
    Quite a few hoped Ukip would win, that's an entirely different matter.
    Given the constituency's demographics, it was always an outside shot that probably needed a very low (and differential) turnout. That said, after UKIP's results in the previous year I don't think anyone would have been shocked. The general expectation was that Labour would do worse than it did.
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    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,917

    Wanderer said:

    So in the last week Remain varies between 48 & 60, Leave between 40 and 52.

    They're all guessing, so are punters.

    No, guessing is what we did in Oldham when in the absence of polling we imagined UKIP had a cat's chance in hell of taking a north-west seat from Labour.
    I don't remember anybody giving Ukip a cat in hell's chance.
    That is simply not true, UKIP were definitely expected to run it close, all those Labour voters were supposed to be so pissed off with Corbyn and the "metropolitan elite" that they were going to vote UKIP in droves. There was definitely talk of UKIP possibly winning & Corbyn being finished. The size of Labour's win came as quite a surprisnot least of all to me who expected Labour to do much worse due to the Corbyn factor.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    BBC - Adviser to current President says VdB has won.
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Live-blogging from some Austrian papers seem to have broken down. I guess they never received so many clicks
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Die Presse:

    Van der Bellen hat nun 12.855 Stimmen Vorsprung
    Es fehlen nur noch Salzburg Stadt, Innsbruck, Bregenz und Feldkirch
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    MaxPB said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Twitter seems to think Hofer has lost.

    Yes he has lost.

    But I'd still like to know the numbers :)
    One wonders if there will be a recount.
    VdB by 20,000 apparently...

    0.5%

    Equivalent of 200 votes in a UK parliamentary election.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Live-blogging from some Austrian papers seem to have broken down. I guess they never received so many clicks

    Certainly not since the end of WWII when heel clicks were somewhat frowned upon.
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    I have changed LEAVE's colour on the chart
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Andrea Greater
    The Greens' preferred candidate is now president. But they only poll ~13% nationally. The FPOe by contrast polls ~33% nationally.

    The FPOe is the most popular party in Austria. The two centre parties poll at ~23% each - 10% lower than the FPOe. (7/)
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    OllyT said:

    Wanderer said:

    So in the last week Remain varies between 48 & 60, Leave between 40 and 52.

    They're all guessing, so are punters.

    No, guessing is what we did in Oldham when in the absence of polling we imagined UKIP had a cat's chance in hell of taking a north-west seat from Labour.
    I don't remember anybody giving Ukip a cat in hell's chance.
    That is simply not true, UKIP were definitely expected to run it close, all those Labour voters were supposed to be so pissed off with Corbyn and the "metropolitan elite" that they were going to vote UKIP in droves. There was definitely talk of UKIP possibly winning & Corbyn being finished. The size of Labour's win came as quite a surprisnot least of all to me who expected Labour to do much worse due to the Corbyn factor.
    Absolutely right. UKIP thought they were in with a strong shout. Farage went up to be at the count but kept away when it looked like a disaster.

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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610

    I wonder if Hofer and his party will see this as a high tide from which their support recedes, or if they can build on the result.

    Well they are quite far ahead in the national polls for their 2018 elections, they have between a 10 and 13 point lead over the next party. The CDU fellow I know in Germany says that once people have overcome the taboo of voting for a right wing party in Germany they tend to do a lot better in future elections, AfD have profited from this at the CDU's expense. If the same is true in Austria (another nation which has collective war guilt) then this may be a watershed moment for the FPO regardless. Having 50% of people voting for a right wing party that is anti-immigrant may mean thos people find it easier to do so in the general election. UKIP use the European elections as a platform to build on in the UK, they received 4.3m votes in the 2014 EU election, then in 2015 they followed it up with 3.9m votes compared to 0.9m in 2010.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,966

    Andrea Greater
    The Greens' preferred candidate is now president. But they only poll ~13% nationally. The FPOe by contrast polls ~33% nationally.

    The FPOe is the most popular party in Austria. The two centre parties poll at ~23% each - 10% lower than the FPOe. (7/)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next_Austrian_legislative_election

    Nothing like a close loss to get supporters out for the next election.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Sadiq Raises EU Flag Above City Hall https://t.co/mQsGeBvHuz via @guidofawkes
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Andrea Greater
    The Greens' preferred candidate is now president. But they only poll ~13% nationally. The FPOe by contrast polls ~33% nationally.

    The FPOe is the most popular party in Austria. The two centre parties poll at ~23% each - 10% lower than the FPOe. (7/)

    Or ....

    Austria's prefered candidate has won.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,485

    Andrea Greater
    The Greens' preferred candidate is now president. But they only poll ~13% nationally. The FPOe by contrast polls ~33% nationally.

    The FPOe is the most popular party in Austria. The two centre parties poll at ~23% each - 10% lower than the FPOe. (7/)

    Clearly a lot of tactical voting.

    The Hofer came bloody close.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    Wawrinka match into the fifth set.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,485
    On topic, it looks a much tighter race once don't knows are stripped out.

    Will Project Terror start to crack the Leave base, or will Leave finally sort itself out?

    Who knows, but just over 4 weeks to go.
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    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,917
    MaxPB said:

    weejonnie said:

    Splendid but don't Don't Knows historically break for the status quo.

    Well as we all know - there is no status quo. It is either ever further integration or it is a clean break.
    Unfortunately few in the Leave camp are making that argument, they are letting the Remain side push the idea that a vote for remain is a vote for the status quo, this is where the election will be won and lost. Very few people in the UK wish to be part of the EU superstate, Leave needs to show that a Remain vote clears the way for this to be achieved and that we will be a part of it or be carping from the sidelines completely and utterly ignored given our opt-outs. We need to be completely in or completely out, Remain is a vote for completely in.

    That gets little traction because most people know we can always have another referendum further down the line if things progress in a direction we don't like.

    Remain is the status quo unless we choose otherwise, we cannot be forced to join the Euro,, forced to join Schengen or be forced to agree to Turkey joining etc etc.

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    @rosschawkins
    The old palm-in-front-of-the-lens moment that'll definitely get broadcast and look really, really bad https://twitter.com/BBCPeterH/status/734720626204807168
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    OllyT said:

    Wanderer said:

    So in the last week Remain varies between 48 & 60, Leave between 40 and 52.

    They're all guessing, so are punters.

    No, guessing is what we did in Oldham when in the absence of polling we imagined UKIP had a cat's chance in hell of taking a north-west seat from Labour.
    I don't remember anybody giving Ukip a cat in hell's chance.
    That is simply not true, UKIP were definitely expected to run it close, all those Labour voters were supposed to be so pissed off with Corbyn and the "metropolitan elite" that they were going to vote UKIP in droves. There was definitely talk of UKIP possibly winning & Corbyn being finished. The size of Labour's win came as quite a surprisnot least of all to me who expected Labour to do much worse due to the Corbyn factor.
    You clearly don't understand campaigning.

    Each party will set out to win, with the exception of The Raving Loonies etc the candidate will convince himself he can win. Nobody has ever canvassed saying "I can't win so don't bother voting for me." It is about convincing the electorate that you are both confident and competent. The Ukip candidate will have been sure he was going to win, he has to be or people won't help his campaign. If Ukip had won it would have been one of the biggest electoral shocks ever, few, if any, really thought it likely.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610
    OllyT said:

    MaxPB said:

    weejonnie said:

    Splendid but don't Don't Knows historically break for the status quo.

    Well as we all know - there is no status quo. It is either ever further integration or it is a clean break.
    Unfortunately few in the Leave camp are making that argument, they are letting the Remain side push the idea that a vote for remain is a vote for the status quo, this is where the election will be won and lost. Very few people in the UK wish to be part of the EU superstate, Leave needs to show that a Remain vote clears the way for this to be achieved and that we will be a part of it or be carping from the sidelines completely and utterly ignored given our opt-outs. We need to be completely in or completely out, Remain is a vote for completely in.

    That gets little traction because most people know we can always have another referendum further down the line if things progress in a direction we don't like.

    Remain is the status quo unless we choose otherwise, we cannot be forced to join the Euro,, forced to join Schengen or be forced to agree to Turkey joining etc etc.

    I think carping from the sidelines and being an unwilling partner in the political union is not going to be an option after a remain vote. Our current position in the EU is not on the table and a future referendum is not something we can count on as a 100% given.
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    16,323 lead, 3 districts still to come
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    I wonder whether Hofer will disappear ....
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,554

    OllyT said:

    Wanderer said:

    So in the last week Remain varies between 48 & 60, Leave between 40 and 52.

    They're all guessing, so are punters.

    No, guessing is what we did in Oldham when in the absence of polling we imagined UKIP had a cat's chance in hell of taking a north-west seat from Labour.
    I don't remember anybody giving Ukip a cat in hell's chance.
    That is simply not true, UKIP were definitely expected to run it close, all those Labour voters were supposed to be so pissed off with Corbyn and the "metropolitan elite" that they were going to vote UKIP in droves. There was definitely talk of UKIP possibly winning & Corbyn being finished. The size of Labour's win came as quite a surprisnot least of all to me who expected Labour to do much worse due to the Corbyn factor.
    Absolutely right. UKIP thought they were in with a strong shout. Farage went up to be at the count but kept away when it looked like a disaster.

    Did Farage ever go to the police after the Oldham vote. Or was he full of piss and wind again?
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    Pulpstar said:

    https://www.predictit.org/Market/2056/Who-will-be-elected-president-of-Austria-in-the-2016-election argh 15% return in a few minutes !

    Can Predictit PLEASE be released in UK !

    If it looks too good to be true, it probably is.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Some are saying that these figures are not official:
    https://twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/734750320820146176
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    PeterCPeterC Posts: 1,274
    edited May 2016
    MaxPB said:

    OllyT said:

    MaxPB said:

    weejonnie said:

    Splendid but don't Don't Knows historically break for the status quo.

    Well as we all know - there is no status quo. It is either ever further integration or it is a clean break.
    Unfortunately few in the Leave camp are making that argument, they are letting the Remain side push the idea that a vote for remain is a vote for the status quo, this is where the election will be won and lost. Very few people in the UK wish to be part of the EU superstate, Leave needs to show that a Remain vote clears the way for this to be achieved and that we will be a part of it or be carping from the sidelines completely and utterly ignored given our opt-outs. We need to be completely in or completely out, Remain is a vote for completely in.

    That gets little traction because most people know we can always have another referendum further down the line if things progress in a direction we don't like.

    Remain is the status quo unless we choose otherwise, we cannot be forced to join the Euro,, forced to join Schengen or be forced to agree to Turkey joining etc etc.

    I think carping from the sidelines and being an unwilling partner in the political union is not going to be an option after a remain vote. Our current position in the EU is not on the table and a future referendum is not something we can count on as a 100% given.
    I wonder what a referendum between fully IN or fully OUT might look like.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,554
    Shadsy's done a piece for the Telegraph

    When it comes to who's going to win the EU referendum, the best people to ask are the bookies

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/23/the-polls-suggest-a-tight-race-in-the-eu-referendum-but-is-this/
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,038
    BBC says Van der Bellen elected.
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,997
    Norbert Hofer admits defeat

    "Of course I 'm sad ," writes the FPÖ candidate on Facebook
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    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    OllyT said:

    Wanderer said:

    So in the last week Remain varies between 48 & 60, Leave between 40 and 52.

    They're all guessing, so are punters.

    No, guessing is what we did in Oldham when in the absence of polling we imagined UKIP had a cat's chance in hell of taking a north-west seat from Labour.
    I don't remember anybody giving Ukip a cat in hell's chance.
    That is simply not true, UKIP were definitely expected to run it close, all those Labour voters were supposed to be so pissed off with Corbyn and the "metropolitan elite" that they were going to vote UKIP in droves. There was definitely talk of UKIP possibly winning & Corbyn being finished. The size of Labour's win came as quite a surprisnot least of all to me who expected Labour to do much worse due to the Corbyn factor.
    Absolutely right. UKIP thought they were in with a strong shout. Farage went up to be at the count but kept away when it looked like a disaster.

    Did Farage ever go to the police after the Oldham vote. Or was he full of piss and wind again?</blockquote
    He did say they'd have walked it......if it hadn't been for the Asian vote. Bloody electorate
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610
    https://i.sli.mg/ZApoyD.png

    I was sent this today. While correlation doesn't equal causation, there may have been some effect from Trump's "crooked Hillary" name.
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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,724
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    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,676
    RodCrosby said:
    Hands up those PBers who are disappointed...
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,485
    This is very immature, but I really want to add a 'd' to the end of the name of the new Austrian President.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,610

    Shadsy's done a piece for the Telegraph

    When it comes to who's going to win the EU referendum, the best people to ask are the bookies

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/23/the-polls-suggest-a-tight-race-in-the-eu-referendum-but-is-this/

    Well he would say that wouldn't he!
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Christopher Hope
    John Baron MP speaks for A LOT of Conservative MP saying the Treasury report shows "project fear has reached a new low" #EUref
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    edited May 2016
    midwinter said:

    OllyT said:

    Wanderer said:

    So in the last week Remain varies between 48 & 60, Leave between 40 and 52.

    They're all guessing, so are punters.

    No, guessing is what we did in Oldham when in the absence of polling we imagined UKIP had a cat's chance in hell of taking a north-west seat from Labour.
    I don't remember anybody giving Ukip a cat in hell's chance.
    That is simply not true, UKIP were definitely expected to run it close, all those Labour voters were supposed to be so pissed off with Corbyn and the "metropolitan elite" that they were going to vote UKIP in droves. There was definitely talk of UKIP possibly winning & Corbyn being finished. The size of Labour's win came as quite a surprisnot least of all to me who expected Labour to do much worse due to the Corbyn factor.
    Absolutely right. UKIP thought they were in with a strong shout. Farage went up to be at the count but kept away when it looked like a disaster.

    Did Farage ever go to the police after the Oldham vote. Or was he full of piss and wind again?</blockquote
    He did say they'd have walked it......if it hadn't been for the Asian vote. Bloody electorate</bloc
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    MikeK said:

    Some are saying that these figures are not official

    Mike, are you saying or hoping .... :smiley:

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    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,724

    Andrea Greater
    The Greens' preferred candidate is now president. But they only poll ~13% nationally. The FPOe by contrast polls ~33% nationally.

    The FPOe is the most popular party in Austria. The two centre parties poll at ~23% each - 10% lower than the FPOe. (7/)

    Clearly a lot of tactical voting.

    The Hofer came bloody close.
    Yes this sort of tactical voting also blunts the Front National in France.
    He did come close, but he was expected to win.
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    BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 7,997

    Shadsy's done a piece for the Telegraph

    When it comes to who's going to win the EU referendum, the best people to ask are the bookies

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/23/the-polls-suggest-a-tight-race-in-the-eu-referendum-but-is-this/

    Ladbrokes shows 79% for REMAIN; so does Betfair (1.26); and surprisingly so does my calculation using Alistair Meeks decision tree with a 50% chance that the current reality is midway between the phone and online polls and symmetrical around that.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Shadsy's done a piece for the Telegraph

    When it comes to who's going to win the EU referendum, the best people to ask are the bookies

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/23/the-polls-suggest-a-tight-race-in-the-eu-referendum-but-is-this/

    It's a good piece. What he omits to say is the bookies are very happy to lay Remain.

    Nobody got rich backing odds on shots ante post, great PR for Ladbrokes, well done Matthew Shaddick.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,896

    Shadsy's done a piece for the Telegraph

    When it comes to who's going to win the EU referendum, the best people to ask are the bookies

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/23/the-polls-suggest-a-tight-race-in-the-eu-referendum-but-is-this/

    Betting markets, like all markets, are mostly driven by sentiment.
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,195

    RodCrosby said:
    Hands up those PBers who are disappointed...
    Only from the perspective that it's funny to watch the lefties get really angry with this sort of thing. Ultimately, however, this is someone else's country and it is up to them who they vote for. I couldn't tell you what either candidate stands for, only that one has been labelled far right by media outlets who shy away from ever describing politicians as far left.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,896

    Andrea Greater
    The Greens' preferred candidate is now president. But they only poll ~13% nationally. The FPOe by contrast polls ~33% nationally.

    The FPOe is the most popular party in Austria. The two centre parties poll at ~23% each - 10% lower than the FPOe. (7/)

    Clearly a lot of tactical voting.

    The Hofer came bloody close.
    Yes this sort of tactical voting also blunts the Front National in France.
    He did come close, but he was expected to win.
    Lots of tactical voting on each side, it seems.
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    OllyTOllyT Posts: 4,917

    OllyT said:

    Wanderer said:

    So in the last week Remain varies between 48 & 60, Leave between 40 and 52.

    They're all guessing, so are punters.

    No, guessing is what we did in Oldham when in the absence of polling we imagined UKIP had a cat's chance in hell of taking a north-west seat from Labour.
    I don't remember anybody giving Ukip a cat in hell's chance.
    That is simply not true, UKIP were definitely expected to run it close, all those Labour voters were supposed to be so pissed off with Corbyn and the "metropolitan elite" that they were going to vote UKIP in droves. There was definitely talk of UKIP possibly winning & Corbyn being finished. The size of Labour's win came as quite a surprisnot least of all to me who expected Labour to do much worse due to the Corbyn factor.
    You clearly don't understand campaigning.

    Each party will set out to win, with the exception of The Raving Loonies etc the candidate will convince himself he can win. Nobody has ever canvassed saying "I can't win so don't bother voting for me." It is about convincing the electorate that you are both confident and competent. The Ukip candidate will have been sure he was going to win, he has to be or people won't help his campaign. If Ukip had won it would have been one of the biggest electoral shocks ever, few, if any, really thought it likely.
    Had a quick look back at Betfair:-

    "My instinct says Labour hang on with a vastly reduced majority, but they make no betting appeal whatsoever. I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised were UKIP to edge it, and that must make them the value pick at 4.50. Their chance of victory is better than 22%.

    Recommended bet
    Back UKIP to win the Oldham West & Royton by-election @ 4.50"

    Biggest electoral shock ever my a@se!
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited May 2016
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/23/eu-facts-would-a-vote-to-leave-the-eu-really-plunge-britain-into/

    "Is it really possible for the Treasury to state as facts what would happen to the economy after Brexit?

    No. Contrary to the impression given by some ministers, the Treasury document isn’t really a forecast. It’s an assessment of what might happen in just two different post-referendum scenarios. This is where the trouble starts..."

    And

    "In the “shock” scenario, the recession is about as mild as possible, and much less severe than any recession in living memory: GDP falls by 0.1 per cent in each quarter starting in July 2016. Given the natural variation in GDP figures and the world economy, it’s perfectly possible that even small changes in the economic outlook could push some of those numbers into positive territory, meaning a recession was averted. And the Vote Leave campaign notes that this “year-long recession” would only reduce the overall size of the economy to the level seen at the end of 2015.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    Wanderer said:

    So in the last week Remain varies between 48 & 60, Leave between 40 and 52.

    They're all guessing, so are punters.

    No, guessing is what we did in Oldham when in the absence of polling we imagined UKIP had a cat's chance in hell of taking a north-west seat from Labour.
    I don't remember anybody giving Ukip a cat in hell's chance.
    That is simply not true, UKIP were definitely expected to run it close, all those Labour voters were supposed to be so pissed off with Corbyn and the "metropolitan elite" that they were going to vote UKIP in droves. There was definitely talk of UKIP possibly winning & Corbyn being finished. The size of Labour's win came as quite a surprisnot least of all to me who expected Labour to do much worse due to the Corbyn factor.
    You clearly don't understand campaigning.

    Each party will set out to win, with the exception of The Raving Loonies etc the candidate will convince himself he can win. Nobody has ever canvassed saying "I can't win so don't bother voting for me." It is about convincing the electorate that you are both confident and competent. The Ukip candidate will have been sure he was going to win, he has to be or people won't help his campaign. If Ukip had won it would have been one of the biggest electoral shocks ever, few, if any, really thought it likely.
    Had a quick look back at Betfair:-

    "My instinct says Labour hang on with a vastly reduced majority, but they make no betting appeal whatsoever. I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised were UKIP to edge it, and that must make them the value pick at 4.50. Their chance of victory is better than 22%.

    Recommended bet
    Back UKIP to win the Oldham West & Royton by-election @ 4.50"

    Biggest electoral shock ever my a@se!
    Can you name a bigger shock than Ukip winning a seat that Labour have held for decades?

    No, I thought not.

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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,896

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/23/eu-facts-would-a-vote-to-leave-the-eu-really-plunge-britain-into/

    "Is it really possible for the Treasury to state as facts what would happen to the economy after Brexit?

    No. Contrary to the impression given by some ministers, the Treasury document isn’t really a forecast. It’s an assessment of what might happen in just two different post-referendum scenarios. This is where the trouble starts..."

    And

    "In the “shock” scenario, the recession is about as mild as possible, and much less severe than any recession in living memory: GDP falls by 0.1 per cent in each quarter starting in July 2016. Given the natural variation in GDP figures and the world economy, it’s perfectly possible that even small changes in the economic outlook could push some of those numbers into positive territory, meaning a recession was averted. And the Vote Leave campaign notes that this “year-long recession” would only reduce the overall size of the economy to the level seen at the end of 2015.

    If the Treasury is expecting a recession in the near future, then it can confidently expect one in the event of Brexit.
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    24,847 lead with Innsbruck to come.
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    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    OllyT said:

    OllyT said:

    Wanderer said:

    So in the last week Remain varies between 48 & 60, Leave between 40 and 52.

    They're all guessing, so are punters.

    No, guessing is what we did in Oldham when in the absence of polling we imagined UKIP had a cat's chance in hell of taking a north-west seat from Labour.
    I don't remember anybody giving Ukip a cat in hell's chance.
    That is simply not true, UKIP were definitely expected to run it close, all those Labour voters were supposed to be so pissed off with Corbyn and the "metropolitan elite" that they were going to vote UKIP in droves. There was definitely talk of UKIP possibly winning & Corbyn being finished. The size of Labour's win came as quite a surprisnot least of all to me who expected Labour to do much worse due to the Corbyn factor.
    You clearly don't understand campaigning.

    Each party will set out to win, with the exception of The Raving Loonies etc the candidate will convince himself he can win. Nobody has ever canvassed saying "I can't win so don't bother voting for me." It is about convincing the electorate that you are both confident and competent. The Ukip candidate will have been sure he was going to win, he has to be or people won't help his campaign. If Ukip had won it would have been one of the biggest electoral shocks ever, few, if any, really thought it likely.
    Had a quick look back at Betfair:-

    "My instinct says Labour hang on with a vastly reduced majority, but they make no betting appeal whatsoever. I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised were UKIP to edge it, and that must make them the value pick at 4.50. Their chance of victory is better than 22%.

    Recommended bet
    Back UKIP to win the Oldham West & Royton by-election @ 4.50"

    Biggest electoral shock ever my a@se!
    Can you name a bigger shock than Ukip winning a seat that Labour have held for decades?

    No, I thought not.

    What price were the Tories to get a mjority at the last election?
This discussion has been closed.