Has VoteLeave confirmed where these hospitals are going to be built?
Or are we just going to keep building them until there's one on every street corner?
Someone ask Boris.
Many on the Leave side are decent and principled enough to call out misuse of figures on either side. However, no-one major on the Remain side has criticised the dodgy £4,300 figure, the ISIS support Brexit nonsense, the three million jobs deception or the migrant camps in Kent claim. It just shows how the lack of intellectual honesty is ubiquitous among EU supporters.
Both sides spew utter shit, constantly.
Remain says every family will lose £4,300 a year, ISIS welcomes Brexit, that house prices will collapse, that there'll be no trade deals, and we'll lose £200bn in investment and trade.
Leave says Turkey will join the EU, that the TTIP will result in the privatisation of the NHS, that we'll magically be able to keep terrorists out the UK post EU, and that the EU will grant all our wishes for access to the single market without any cost.
The idea that any of Gove*, Johnson, Farage, Osborne or Cameron has done anything other than diminish their reputations is laughable.
* Gove has been OK. But he's about the only one.
The big issue we should all have with this level of debate is that it is putting people further off politics, from joining parties to actually voting.
But it's OK because one of them will win.
Except it isn't as it hollows out democracy and makes it a farce.
Has VoteLeave confirmed where these hospitals are going to be built?
Or are we just going to keep building them until there's one on every street corner?
Someone ask Boris.
Many on the Leave side are decent and principled enough to call out misuse of figures on either side. However, no-one major on the Remain side has criticised the dodgy £4,300 figure, the ISIS support Brexit nonsense, the three million jobs deception or the migrant camps in Kent claim. It just shows how the lack of intellectual honesty is ubiquitous among EU supporters.
Both sides spew utter shit, constantly.
Remain says every family will lose £4,300 a year, ISIS welcomes Brexit, that house prices will collapse, that there'll be no trade deals, and we'll lose £200bn in investment and trade.
Leave says Turkey will join the EU, that the TTIP will result in the privatisation of the NHS, that we'll magically be able to keep terrorists out the UK post EU, and that the EU will grant all our wishes for access to the single market without any cost.
The idea that any of Gove*, Johnson, Farage, Osborne or Cameron has done anything other than diminish their reputations is laughable.
* Gove has been OK. But he's about the only one.
Yes. It has been popcorn time for those of us who dislike both factions of the Tories.
Nick Clegg made himself a laughing stock for similar reasons with the three million jobs myth several years back.
And look where he is now. I shall enjoy the public seppukko of the Conservative party.
Has VoteLeave confirmed where these hospitals are going to be built?
Or are we just going to keep building them until there's one on every street corner?
Someone ask Boris.
Many on the Leave side are decent and principled enough to call out misuse of figures on either side. However, no-one major on the Remain side has criticised the dodgy £4,300 figure, the ISIS support Brexit nonsense, the three million jobs deception or the migrant camps in Kent claim. It just shows how the lack of intellectual honesty is ubiquitous among EU supporters.
Both sides spew utter shit, constantly.
Remain says every family will lose £4,300 a year, ISIS welcomes Brexit, that house prices will collapse, that there'll be no trade deals, and we'll lose £200bn in investment and trade.
Leave says Turkey will join the EU, that the TTIP will result in the privatisation of the NHS, that we'll magically be able to keep terrorists out the UK post EU, and that the EU will grant all our wishes for access to the single market without any cost.
The idea that any of Gove*, Johnson, Farage, Osborne or Cameron has done anything other than diminish their reputations is laughable.
* Gove has been OK. But he's about the only one.
Gove had done very well. So have Priti Patel and Dominic Raab, which is why Cameron is manouvering to exlude them in the next reshuffle. Meanwhile he will promote Liz Truss and Stephen Crabb who happily stood in front of the £4,300 posters as they were released. They have also trashed their reputations by repeating Osborne's lies.
Gove who said we'd have 5,3 million immigrants a population the size of Scotland? It just shows how we've lost all sense of proportion when people are citing Gove as the 'sane' one
Worth noting the Westminster Voting Intentions of the Opinium poll (change on last time in brackets):
Conservatives 35 (-3) Labour 30 (-) Ukip 18 (+3) Lib Dems 5 (-) SNP 6 (+1) Green 5 (-) Others 2 (-)
So UKIP shot up and Leave fell?
In this Opinium poll compared with the April one, there were small shifts to REMAIN among those with Labour VI (1-point swing), LibDem (2.5), and Green (also 2.5), as well as the 4.5-point swing among the CON-intending voters (a slightly smaller band of voters than last month, as mentioned).
Going the other way were UKIP voters (2-point swing to LEAVE) and SNP voters (5.5-point swing to LEAVE - now 41% REMAIN, 35% LEAVE, although this was a small sub-sample of 71 voters after weighting. The poll in March showed a split of 58R/27L among SNP voters; in April it was 50R/33L).
I should add that there were two other substantial blocks of respondents: - the Would Not Votes (at a GE), who split 37% REMAIN / 22% LEAVE in this latest poll, a 2-point swing to REMAIN; and - the Don't Knows (about GE VI), who split 31% REMAIN / 37% LEAVE, a very small 0.5-point swing to REMAIN.
Yes well that is the pollsters fault not mine, the general election is UK wide not just GB, if they choose to ignore 3% of the country that is up to them, hopefully the referendum polls will be a sign of things to come
There are good and bad reasons why pollsters didn't poll NI, namely * "Let's pretend NI is not in the UK. Nobody will notice." * "We sent pollsters down to Irvinestown. They were shot. Let's not do that again" * "Labour, Libs and and the Conservatives don't/didn't stand in NI. Why are we doing this again"
The statistician in me is absolutely horrified by point 1, sympathetic to point 2, and regards 3 as a challenge, not a problem. One good thing about EURef is that finally the pollsters are beginning to realise that the BT post code actually exists.
Has VoteLeave confirmed where these hospitals are going to be built?
Or are we just going to keep building them until there's one on every street corner?
Someone ask Boris.
Many on the Leave side are decent and principled enough to call out misuse of figures on either side. However, no-one major on the Remain side has criticised the dodgy £4,300 figure, the ISIS support Brexit nonsense, the three million jobs deception or the migrant camps in Kent claim. It just shows how the lack of intellectual honesty is ubiquitous among EU supporters.
The idea that any of Gove*, Johnson, Farage, Osborne or Cameron has done anything other than diminish their reputations is laughable.
* Gove has been OK. But he's about the only one.
Gove had been doing OK until he got to Turkey......
Farage has not claimed anything in the campaign he hasn't claimed before.
Cameron & Osborne have done the usual politician's 'best possible gloss (and then some) on their case'
It's Boris who has come across as an unprincipled careerist sh*t....
The In team have been highly anxious about the attitude of the Labour leadership to the referendum. They now say that they are very encouraged that the party has started to get its act together since the local elections. Labour figures with experience of organising campaigns, such as the deputy leader Tom Watson, have become fully engaged. One non-Labour strategist working for the In campaign recently spoke to me about the Labour effort in a tone of pleasant surprise: “They know how to organise a ground campaign.”
Has VoteLeave confirmed where these hospitals are going to be built?
Or are we just going to keep building them until there's one on every street corner?
Someone ask Boris.
Many on the Leave side are decent and principled enough to call out misuse of figures on either side. However, no-one major on the Remain side has criticised the dodgy £4,300 figure, the ISIS support Brexit nonsense, the three million jobs deception or the migrant camps in Kent claim. It just shows how the lack of intellectual honesty is ubiquitous among EU supporters.
Both sides spew utter shit, constantly.
Remain says every family will lose £4,300 a year, ISIS welcomes Brexit, that house prices will collapse, that there'll be no trade deals, and we'll lose £200bn in investment and trade.
Leave says Turkey will join the EU, that the TTIP will result in the privatisation of the NHS, that we'll magically be able to keep terrorists out the UK post EU, and that the EU will grant all our wishes for access to the single market without any cost.
The idea that any of Gove*, Johnson, Farage, Osborne or Cameron has done anything other than diminish their reputations is laughable.
* Gove has been OK. But he's about the only one.
Gove had done very well. So have Priti Patel and Dominic Raab, which is why Cameron is manouvering to exlude them in the next reshuffle. Meanwhile he will promote Liz Truss and Stephen Crabb who happily stood in front of the £4,300 posters as they were released. They have also trashed their reputations by repeating Osborne's lies.
Gove who said we'd have 5,3 million immigrants a population the size of Scotland? It just shows how we've lost all sense of proportion when people are citing Gove as the 'sane' one
He said that would be the high estimate and 2.3 million the low one.
If you look at current net migration which was 385K last year and multiply it by 15 you get 5.77 million.
Now that would go down if the Euro zone fixed itself but then they were going to do that in 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 and now no doubt 2017. This failure is why the OBR's and Osbourne's numbers have been out thus far but it is also what their projections of both economic growth if we stay in and migration are based on.
The issue is that the Euro is unfixable. None of the methods to paper up the cracks have worked and the solutions proposed that are so politically toxic that they have not yet been adopted wouldn't work anyway.
The In team have been highly anxious about the attitude of the Labour leadership to the referendum. They now say that they are very encouraged that the party has started to get its act together since the local elections. Labour figures with experience of organising campaigns, such as the deputy leader Tom Watson, have become fully engaged. One non-Labour strategist working for the In campaign recently spoke to me about the Labour effort in a tone of pleasant surprise: “They know how to organise a ground campaign.”
The In team have been highly anxious about the attitude of the Labour leadership to the referendum. They now say that they are very encouraged that the party has started to get its act together since the local elections. Labour figures with experience of organising campaigns, such as the deputy leader Tom Watson, have become fully engaged. One non-Labour strategist working for the In campaign recently spoke to me about the Labour effort in a tone of pleasant surprise: “They know how to organise a ground campaign.”
Yes well that is the pollsters fault not mine, the general election is UK wide not just GB, if they choose to ignore 3% of the country that is up to them, hopefully the referendum polls will be a sign of things to come
There are good and bad reasons why pollsters didn't poll NI, namely * "Let's pretend NI is not in the UK. Nobody will notice." * "We sent pollsters down to Irvinestown. They were shot. Let's not do that again" * "Labour, Libs and and the Conservatives don't/didn't stand in NI. Why are we doing this again"
The statistician in me is absolutely horrified by point 1, sympathetic to point 2, and regards 3 as a challenge, not a problem. One good thing about EURef is that finally the pollsters are beginning to realise that the BT post code actually exists.
Firstly, the Tories do stand in NI. Secondly, NI does send MPs to the House of Commons who could feasibly hold the balance of power (and indeed did in the dying days of the Major government). As you say in the referendum NI will be voting straight Remain/Leave as every other nation in the UK will so hopefully it will force them to improve their sampling there
Labour is in danger of becoming “irrelevant to the majority of working people” because the party fails to represent their concerns about immigration, Europe, crime and welfare, according to a devastating new report into its electoral prospects.
An inquiry established by Labour’s former policy chief, the MP for Dagenham, Jon Cruddas, and backed by pressure groups from the right and left of the party, as well as the Fabian Society and Co-operative party, concludes that, unless lessons are learned from last year’s general election disaster and this month’s local election results, Labour’s prospects will “remain very poor”.
Labour is in danger of becoming “irrelevant to the majority of working people” because the party fails to represent their concerns about immigration, Europe, crime and welfare, according to a devastating new report into its electoral prospects.
An inquiry established by Labour’s former policy chief, the MP for Dagenham, Jon Cruddas, and backed by pressure groups from the right and left of the party, as well as the Fabian Society and Co-operative party, concludes that, unless lessons are learned from last year’s general election disaster and this month’s local election results, Labour’s prospects will “remain very poor”.
“People hate him because he’s arrogant. He’s an awful human being,” said one SNP insider.
“Nicola would never have appointed him to the role if she’d known he was running around doing what he was doing. If his wife can’t trust him, why should the public or the party?”
Labour is in danger of becoming “irrelevant to the majority of working people” because the party fails to represent their concerns about immigration, Europe, crime and welfare, according to a devastating new report into its electoral prospects.
An inquiry established by Labour’s former policy chief, the MP for Dagenham, Jon Cruddas, and backed by pressure groups from the right and left of the party, as well as the Fabian Society and Co-operative party, concludes that, unless lessons are learned from last year’s general election disaster and this month’s local election results, Labour’s prospects will “remain very poor”.
So either Labour come out for leave of their toast?
That'll please Corbyn.
I think its a little broader than that.....the issue Labour have is the gap between their members & their (often now, former) voters:
The study drew on extensive polling and analysis, and looked at Labour’s performance among different “value groups”. First were the “pioneers”, of socially liberal, often metropolitan voters; the “prospectors” were pragmatic and aspirational, generally unattached voters who tend to choose the party that will do best for their financial circumstances; a third, the “settlers”, were socially conservative, concerned with home, family and national security. They tend to be older and are deserting the party.
The members are predominantly the first group, their voters predominantly the third...
Labour is in danger of becoming “irrelevant to the majority of working people” because the party fails to represent their concerns about immigration, Europe, crime and welfare, according to a devastating new report into its electoral prospects.
An inquiry established by Labour’s former policy chief, the MP for Dagenham, Jon Cruddas, and backed by pressure groups from the right and left of the party, as well as the Fabian Society and Co-operative party, concludes that, unless lessons are learned from last year’s general election disaster and this month’s local election results, Labour’s prospects will “remain very poor”.
So either Labour come out for leave of their toast?
That'll please Corbyn.
I think its a little broader than that.....the issue Labour have is the gap between their members & their (often now, former) voters:
The study drew on extensive polling and analysis, and looked at Labour’s performance among different “value groups”. First were the “pioneers”, of socially liberal, often metropolitan voters; the “prospectors” were pragmatic and aspirational, generally unattached voters who tend to choose the party that will do best for their financial circumstances; a third, the “settlers”, were socially conservative, concerned with home, family and national security. They tend to be older and are deserting the party.
The members are predominantly the first group, their voters predominantly the third...
Yes. Worthy people leading the party looking down on their voters. I think that is a problem for the Conservatives as well which is why party membership is such an issue.
Labour is in danger of becoming “irrelevant to the majority of working people” because the party fails to represent their concerns about immigration, Europe, crime and welfare, according to a devastating new report into its electoral prospects.
An inquiry established by Labour’s former policy chief, the MP for Dagenham, Jon Cruddas, and backed by pressure groups from the right and left of the party, as well as the Fabian Society and Co-operative party, concludes that, unless lessons are learned from last year’s general election disaster and this month’s local election results, Labour’s prospects will “remain very poor”.
So either Labour come out for leave of their toast?
That'll please Corbyn.
I think its a little broader than that.....the issue Labour have is the gap between their members & their (often now, former) voters:
The study drew on extensive polling and analysis, and looked at Labour’s performance among different “value groups”. First were the “pioneers”, of socially liberal, often metropolitan voters; the “prospectors” were pragmatic and aspirational, generally unattached voters who tend to choose the party that will do best for their financial circumstances; a third, the “settlers”, were socially conservative, concerned with home, family and national security. They tend to be older and are deserting the party.
The members are predominantly the first group, their voters predominantly the third...
I think even the voters are looking more like 1 if they are still voting for Labour under Corbyn, the third group are largely UKIP voters now
Labour is in danger of becoming “irrelevant to the majority of working people” because the party fails to represent their concerns about immigration, Europe, crime and welfare, according to a devastating new report into its electoral prospects.
An inquiry established by Labour’s former policy chief, the MP for Dagenham, Jon Cruddas, and backed by pressure groups from the right and left of the party, as well as the Fabian Society and Co-operative party, concludes that, unless lessons are learned from last year’s general election disaster and this month’s local election results, Labour’s prospects will “remain very poor”.
So either Labour come out for leave of their toast?
That'll please Corbyn.
I think its a little broader than that.....the issue Labour have is the gap between their members & their (often now, former) voters:
The study drew on extensive polling and analysis, and looked at Labour’s performance among different “value groups”. First were the “pioneers”, of socially liberal, often metropolitan voters; the “prospectors” were pragmatic and aspirational, generally unattached voters who tend to choose the party that will do best for their financial circumstances; a third, the “settlers”, were socially conservative, concerned with home, family and national security. They tend to be older and are deserting the party.
The members are predominantly the first group, their voters predominantly the third...
I think even the voters are looking more like 1 if they are still voting for Labour under Corbyn, the third group are largely UKIP voters now
I think the third group are voting SNP in Scotland, and while some will have gone to UKIP in England, a lot may be 'on strike' - of course, if we see a UKIP revival post a REMAIN vote, that might change.....
Labour is in danger of becoming “irrelevant to the majority of working people” because the party fails to represent their concerns about immigration, Europe, crime and welfare, according to a devastating new report into its electoral prospects.
An inquiry established by Labour’s former policy chief, the MP for Dagenham, Jon Cruddas, and backed by pressure groups from the right and left of the party, as well as the Fabian Society and Co-operative party, concludes that, unless lessons are learned from last year’s general election disaster and this month’s local election results, Labour’s prospects will “remain very poor”.
So either Labour come out for leave of their toast?
That'll please Corbyn.
I think its a little broader than that.....the issue Labour have is the gap between their members & their (often now, former) voters:
The study drew on extensive polling and analysis, and looked at Labour’s performance among different “value groups”. First were the “pioneers”, of socially liberal, often metropolitan voters; the “prospectors” were pragmatic and aspirational, generally unattached voters who tend to choose the party that will do best for their financial circumstances; a third, the “settlers”, were socially conservative, concerned with home, family and national security. They tend to be older and are deserting the party.
The members are predominantly the first group, their voters predominantly the third...
I think even the voters are looking more like 1 if they are still voting for Labour under Corbyn, the third group are largely UKIP voters now
I think the third group are voting SNP in Scotland, and while some will have gone to UKIP in England, a lot may be 'on strike' - of course, if we see a UKIP revival post a REMAIN vote, that might change.....
Any UKIP revival post a Remain vote is likely to come predominantly from Leave voting Tories
Labour is in danger of becoming “irrelevant to the majority of working people” because the party fails to represent their concerns about immigration, Europe, crime and welfare, according to a devastating new report into its electoral prospects.
An inquiry established by Labour’s former policy chief, the MP for Dagenham, Jon Cruddas, and backed by pressure groups from the right and left of the party, as well as the Fabian Society and Co-operative party, concludes that, unless lessons are learned from last year’s general election disaster and this month’s local election results, Labour’s prospects will “remain very poor”.
So either Labour come out for leave of their toast?
That'll please Corbyn.
I think its a little broader than that.....the issue Labour have is the gap between their members & their (often now, former) voters:
The study drew on extensive polling and analysis, and looked at Labour’s performance among different “value groups”. First were the “pioneers”, of socially liberal, often metropolitan voters; the “prospectors” were pragmatic and aspirational, generally unattached voters who tend to choose the party that will do best for their financial circumstances; a third, the “settlers”, were socially conservative, concerned with home, family and national security. They tend to be older and are deserting the party.
The members are predominantly the first group, their voters predominantly the third...
I think even the voters are looking more like 1 if they are still voting for Labour under Corbyn, the third group are largely UKIP voters now
I think the third group are voting SNP in Scotland, and while some will have gone to UKIP in England, a lot may be 'on strike' - of course, if we see a UKIP revival post a REMAIN vote, that might change.....
Any UKIP revival post a Remain vote is likely to come predominantly from Leave voting Tories
I think a UKIP revival will come from all over including non members/voters.
Labour is in danger of becoming “irrelevant to the majority of working people” because the party fails to represent their concerns about immigration, Europe, crime and welfare, according to a devastating new report into its electoral prospects.
An inquiry established by Labour’s former policy chief, the MP for Dagenham, Jon Cruddas, and backed by pressure groups from the right and left of the party, as well as the Fabian Society and Co-operative party, concludes that, unless lessons are learned from last year’s general election disaster and this month’s local election results, Labour’s prospects will “remain very poor”.
So either Labour come out for leave of their toast?
That'll please Corbyn.
I think its a little broader than that.....the issue Labour have is the gap between their members & their (often now, former) voters:
The study drew on extensive polling and analysis, and looked at Labour’s performance among different “value groups”. First were the “pioneers”, of socially liberal, often metropolitan voters; the “prospectors” were pragmatic and aspirational, generally unattached voters who tend to choose the party that will do best for their financial circumstances; a third, the “settlers”, were socially conservative, concerned with home, family and national security. They tend to be older and are deserting the party.
The members are predominantly the first group, their voters predominantly the third...
I think even the voters are looking more like 1 if they are still voting for Labour under Corbyn, the third group are largely UKIP voters now
I think the third group are voting SNP in Scotland, and while some will have gone to UKIP in England, a lot may be 'on strike' - of course, if we see a UKIP revival post a REMAIN vote, that might change.....
Any UKIP revival post a Remain vote is likely to come predominantly from Leave voting Tories
I suspect a lot of dedicated Tory BREXITEERs are already in the UKIP camp.....people forget, at their peril, the pragmatism of most Conservatives (which is why the ideological right wing of the party always has been, and always will be, an electorally disastrous aberration)...
I am just wondering if trendy lefties actually have any idea of what a full throttle Labour government is like. It was 28% inflation and no pay rises for years that got me out of lecturing. You see middle class jobs aren't that safe when they are government jobs and the country goes Venezuala.
Labour is in danger of becoming “irrelevant to the majority of working people” because the party fails to represent their concerns about immigration, Europe, crime and welfare, according to a devastating new report into its electoral prospects.
An inquiry established by Labour’s former policy chief, the MP for Dagenham, Jon Cruddas, and backed by pressure groups from the right and left of the party, as well as the Fabian Society and Co-operative party, concludes that, unless lessons are learned from last year’s general election disaster and this month’s local election results, Labour’s prospects will “remain very poor”.
So either Labour come out for leave of their toast?
That'll please Corbyn.
I think its a little broader than that.....the issue Labour have is the gap between their members & their (often now, former) voters:
The study drew on extensive polling and analysis, and looked at Labour’s performance among different “value groups”. First were the “pioneers”, of socially liberal, often metropolitan voters; the “prospectors” were pragmatic and aspirational, generally unattached voters who tend to choose the party that will do best for their financial circumstances; a third, the “settlers”, were socially conservative, concerned with home, family and national security. They tend to be older and are deserting the party.
The members are predominantly the first group, their voters predominantly the third...
I think even the voters are looking more like 1 if they are still voting for Labour under Corbyn, the third group are largely UKIP voters now
I think the third group are voting SNP in Scotland, and while some will have gone to UKIP in England, a lot may be 'on strike' - of course, if we see a UKIP revival post a REMAIN vote, that might change.....
Any UKIP revival post a Remain vote is likely to come predominantly from Leave voting Tories
I suspect a lot of dedicated Tory BREXITEERs are already in the UKIP camp.....people forget, at their peril, the pragmatism of most Conservatives (which is why the ideological right wing of the party always has been, and always will be, an electorally disastrous aberration)...
I'm not sure a lot of Tory Brexiters are on the right. There is a very pragmatic case for leaving the EU. The biggest one being it's broken.
Labour is in danger of becoming “irrelevant to the majority of working people” because the party fails to represent their concerns about immigration, Europe, crime and welfare, according to a devastating new report into its electoral prospects.
An inquiry established by Labour’s former policy chief, the MP for Dagenham, Jon Cruddas, and backed by pressure groups from the right and left of the party, as well as the Fabian Society and Co-operative party, concludes that, unless lessons are learned from last year’s general election disaster and this month’s local election results, Labour’s prospects will “remain very poor”.
So either Labour come out for leave of their toast?
That'll please Corbyn.
I think its a little broader than that.....the issue Labour have is the gap between their members & their (often now, former) voters:
The study drew on extensive polling and analysis, and looked at Labour’s performance among different “value groups”. First were the “pioneers”, of socially liberal, often metropolitan voters; the “prospectors” were pragmatic and aspirational, generally unattached voters who tend to choose the party that will do best for their financial circumstances; a third, the “settlers”, were socially conservative, concerned with home, family and national security. They tend to be older and are deserting the party.
The members are predominantly the first group, their voters predominantly the third...
I think even the voters are looking more like 1 if they are still voting for Labour under Corbyn, the third group are largely UKIP voters now
I think the third group are voting SNP in Scotland, and while some will have gone to UKIP in England, a lot may be 'on strike' - of course, if we see a UKIP revival post a REMAIN vote, that might change.....
Any UKIP revival post a Remain vote is likely to come predominantly from Leave voting Tories
I suspect a lot of dedicated Tory BREXITEERs are already in the UKIP camp.....people forget, at their peril, the pragmatism of most Conservatives (which is why the ideological right wing of the party always has been, and always will be, an electorally disastrous aberration)...
Some maybe, not all. even on tonight's poll 41% of Tories back Leave
Some maybe, not all. even on tonight's poll 41% of Tories back Leave
Both fair points. But I still believe the fundamental role of the Tories in governing Britain will see a lot back into the fold.
Its not as though the current leadership is remotely Europhile (despite what their opponents say).....
It's the Labour Party which is pursuing 'Better to be right than be elected' to destruction.....
Against Corbyn/McDonnell I expect a fair few will say they can afford to make a protest vote for UKIP much as Labour voters did by switching to the LDs over Iraq when IDS and Howard led the Tories, goodnight
Labour is in danger of becoming “irrelevant to the majority of working people” because the party fails to represent their concerns about immigration, Europe, crime and welfare, according to a devastating new report into its electoral prospects.
An inquiry established by Labour’s former policy chief, the MP for Dagenham, Jon Cruddas, and backed by pressure groups from the right and left of the party, as well as the Fabian Society and Co-operative party, concludes that, unless lessons are learned from last year’s general election disaster and this month’s local election results, Labour’s prospects will “remain very poor”.
So either Labour come out for leave of their toast?
That'll please Corbyn.
I think its a little broader than that.....the issue Labour have is the gap between their members & their (often now, former) voters:
The study drew on extensive polling and analysis, and looked at Labour’s performance among different “value groups”. First were the “pioneers”, of socially liberal, often metropolitan voters; the “prospectors” were pragmatic and aspirational, generally unattached voters who tend to choose the party that will do best for their financial circumstances; a third, the “settlers”, were socially conservative, concerned with home, family and national security. They tend to be older and are deserting the party.
The members are predominantly the first group, their voters predominantly the third...
I think even the voters are looking more like 1 if they are still voting for Labour under Corbyn, the third group are largely UKIP voters now
I think the third group are voting SNP in Scotland, and while some will have gone to UKIP in England, a lot may be 'on strike' - of course, if we see a UKIP revival post a REMAIN vote, that might change.....
Any UKIP revival post a Remain vote is likely to come predominantly from Leave voting Tories
I suspect a lot of dedicated Tory BREXITEERs are already in the UKIP camp.....people forget, at their peril, the pragmatism of most Conservatives (which is why the ideological right wing of the party always has been, and always will be, an electorally disastrous aberration)...
I'm not sure a lot of Tory Brexiters are on the right. There is a very pragmatic case for leaving the EU. The biggest one being it's broken.
I am just wondering if trendy lefties actually have any idea of what a full throttle Labour government is like. It was 28% inflation and no pay rises for years that got me out of lecturing. You see middle class jobs aren't that safe when they are government jobs and the country goes Venezuala.
Ironically, due to the previous Conservative government's Barber boom.
Comments
But it's OK because one of them will win.
Except it isn't as it hollows out democracy and makes it a farce.
- the Would Not Votes (at a GE), who split 37% REMAIN / 22% LEAVE in this latest poll, a 2-point swing to REMAIN; and
- the Don't Knows (about GE VI), who split 31% REMAIN / 37% LEAVE, a very small 0.5-point swing to REMAIN.
* "Let's pretend NI is not in the UK. Nobody will notice."
* "We sent pollsters down to Irvinestown. They were shot. Let's not do that again"
* "Labour, Libs and and the Conservatives don't/didn't stand in NI. Why are we doing this again"
The statistician in me is absolutely horrified by point 1, sympathetic to point 2, and regards 3 as a challenge, not a problem. One good thing about EURef is that finally the pollsters are beginning to realise that the BT post code actually exists.
Farage has not claimed anything in the campaign he hasn't claimed before.
Cameron & Osborne have done the usual politician's 'best possible gloss (and then some) on their case'
It's Boris who has come across as an unprincipled careerist sh*t....
The In team have been highly anxious about the attitude of the Labour leadership to the referendum. They now say that they are very encouraged that the party has started to get its act together since the local elections. Labour figures with experience of organising campaigns, such as the deputy leader Tom Watson, have become fully engaged. One non-Labour strategist working for the In campaign recently spoke to me about the Labour effort in a tone of pleasant surprise: “They know how to organise a ground campaign.”
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/22/eu-referendum-error-of-claiming-early-remain-victory
If you look at current net migration which was 385K last year and multiply it by 15 you get 5.77 million.
Now that would go down if the Euro zone fixed itself but then they were going to do that in 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 and now no doubt 2017. This failure is why the OBR's and Osbourne's numbers have been out thus far but it is also what their projections of both economic growth if we stay in and migration are based on.
The issue is that the Euro is unfixable. None of the methods to paper up the cracks have worked and the solutions proposed that are so politically toxic that they have not yet been adopted wouldn't work anyway.
https://www.sundaypost.com/news/political-news/snp-deputy-leader-stewart-hosie-fire-affair-scandal/
An inquiry established by Labour’s former policy chief, the MP for Dagenham, Jon Cruddas, and backed by pressure groups from the right and left of the party, as well as the Fabian Society and Co-operative party, concludes that, unless lessons are learned from last year’s general election disaster and this month’s local election results, Labour’s prospects will “remain very poor”.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/may/21/poor-outlook-toxic-labour-jon-cruddas-report-welfare-immigration?CMP=share_btn_tw
That'll please Corbyn.
“People hate him because he’s arrogant. He’s an awful human being,” said one SNP insider.
“Nicola would never have appointed him to the role if she’d known he was running around doing what he was doing. If his wife can’t trust him, why should the public or the party?”
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14508781.After_the_affair_____Sturgeon_set_for_showdown_with_Hosie_in_Westminster/
The study drew on extensive polling and analysis, and looked at Labour’s performance among different “value groups”. First were the “pioneers”, of socially liberal, often metropolitan voters; the “prospectors” were pragmatic and aspirational, generally unattached voters who tend to choose the party that will do best for their financial circumstances; a third, the “settlers”, were socially conservative, concerned with home, family and national security. They tend to be older and are deserting the party.
The members are predominantly the first group, their voters predominantly the third...
Its not as though the current leadership is remotely Europhile (despite what their opponents say).....
It's the Labour Party which is pursuing 'Better to be right than be elected' to destruction.....