Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

Options

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Guest Post: Summer 2016 might lead to a generational shift

SystemSystem Posts: 11,722
edited May 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Guest Post: Summer 2016 might lead to a generational shift in the two main parties

Summer 2016 could prove a watershed moment in modern British politics. April and early-May have already seen the incumbent leadership of the English Conservatives shown up in comparison to Ruth Davidson’s success north of the border, and the old guard of an apparently gaffe-obsessed Labour Party cheered by victory in London yet criticised by the triumphant Sadiq Khan.

Read the full story here


«134

Comments

  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,689
    edited May 2016
    Welcome to the thread writers club Mortimer, was a pleasure to publish this.

    Also agree with you on Fallon and May, especially May, she might well be the only Tory undamaged by the referendum
  • Options
    MontyMonty Posts: 346
    Jeremy Corbyn is not interested in uniting his party, only ensuring his far-left political death-cult remains in power.
    The Labour party has given up trying to win General Elections for the foreseeable future.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    I should cross the Republican nomination finish line on +~£1,000, which I am very happy with :).

    @Pulpstar will be pleased to hear that Cruz is actually my best outcome at +£2,500 :P
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited May 2016
    Good article, Mortimer.

    As regards ministerial promotions, a lot will obviously depend on the timing of any changing of the guard, and that in turn depends on the referendum. A Leave result would surely be followed by a relatively quick Cameron resignation, which wouldn't leave much time for new talent to come to prominence. If it's a Remain result, then I imagine Cameron will want to reshuffle more extensively than he has in the past, perhaps giving some of the middle-aged cardinals more of a chance, and that might mean that any leadership contest in a couple of years' time could turn out to be rather different to how things look now.

    Still, as at today, I agree that Theresa May is the stand-out value.
  • Options
    Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,339
    If Dave goes will the Tories have their own Corbyn moment - someone from the ideologically pure eurosceptic hard-right running who somehow manages to win? Plenty will regard Cameron/Osborne centralism as a total waste of time and will be drooling for red meat. I think this could happen.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    The new show, which will be streamed on Amazon Prime, is to be called 'The Grand Tour' according to a statement from the presenters.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/11/jeremy-clarkson-reveals-name-of-new-amazon-prime-showand-its-not/
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Spelling their name right in the byline might encourage guest writers to write more frequently ;)
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,188
    Excellent first thread, Mortimer.

    Interesting that perceived wisdom amongst party members is that Osborne's leadership hopes are dead in the water. Still not sure about the older Pope. The next leader is taking the party through the 2020's. May is 60 in October, 70 by 2026. That is going to feel like the Party is going backwards after the relative youth of Cameron when elected leader.

    I can see a scenario where Cameron goes this year, with Gove elected as an interim leader for two years. This will be on the understanding that he will bring the party together after the Referendum - and have an extended beauty parade for the next leader to take the party into the 2020's.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,689
    edited May 2016
    Charles said:

    Spelling their name right in the byline might encourage guest writers to write more frequently ;)

    I have no idea what you are talking about. I can't see any mis-spellings in the byline now.

    #ShouldHaveGoneToSpecSavers
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,027

    I should cross the Republican nomination finish line on +~£1,000, which I am very happy with :).

    @Pulpstar will be pleased to hear that Cruz is actually my best outcome at +£2,500 :P

    Ted Cruz holds up the bible, then he lies !
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    I should cross the Republican nomination finish line on +~£1,000, which I am very happy with :).

    Me too. Trying to eke out the last £100 for £1111.

    POTUS Trump is now again offering me ~£1000 for cashout.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,521

    If it's a Remain result, then I imagine Cameron will want to reshuffle more extensively than he has in the past, perhaps giving some of the middle-aged cardinals more of a chance, and that might mean that any leadership contest in a couple of years' time could turn out to be rather different to how things look now.

    for which reason I am happy with my 50s on Nick Boles.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @SophyRidgeSky: Sky sources: BBC will have to disclose salaries over £450,000 - @BethRigby with the details
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Very thoughtful and new take on old issues, thanks @Mortimer.

    Given Cameron's been burning bridges faster than a stupid general, I'm inclined to Mrs May for now. Better than a Howard stop-gap, and a stalwart of the very tricky HO hot seat.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    edited May 2016
    Scott_P said:

    @SophyRidgeSky: Sky sources: BBC will have to disclose salaries over £450,000 - @BethRigby with the details

    So that will be the "talent" whose pay packets we already know then e.g jug ears...Also interesting it says "salaries". Graham Norton doesn't get paid a salary by the BBC, but he is one of the best remunerated.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Also interesting it says "salaries". Graham Norton doesn't get paid a salary by the BBC, but he is one of the best remunerated.

    I think that may be Twitter shorthand

    @BethRigby: EXCL: The govt WILL ask #BBC stars to disclose their earnings -- if they are over £450k: Basically anyone earning more than Lord Hall
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,958

    Excellent first thread, Mortimer.

    Interesting that perceived wisdom amongst party members is that Osborne's leadership hopes are dead in the water. Still not sure about the older Pope. The next leader is taking the party through the 2020's. May is 60 in October, 70 by 2026. That is going to feel like the Party is going backwards after the relative youth of Cameron when elected leader.

    I can see a scenario where Cameron goes this year, with Gove elected as an interim leader for two years. This will be on the understanding that he will bring the party together after the Referendum - and have an extended beauty parade for the next leader to take the party into the 2020's.

    Thanks for all the positive comments! This pretty much wrote itself whilst I was pondering a thread and the Chilcot announcement came out.

    I'd be happy to see a decent interim followed by a beauty parade. That could allow Greg Clark to shine....
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    edited May 2016
    Scott_P said:

    Also interesting it says "salaries". Graham Norton doesn't get paid a salary by the BBC, but he is one of the best remunerated.

    I think that may be Twitter shorthand

    @BethRigby: EXCL: The govt WILL ask #BBC stars to disclose their earnings -- if they are over £450k: Basically anyone earning more than Lord Hall
    Even then, I can foresee ways in which that can be avoided and see the luuvies end up with a big wedge. Also Graham Norton getting a big load of cash is a tiny drop in their budget, while they go blowing far more money on other nonsense e.g. £1bn on failed IT projects.

    All this though again is really just a lot of hot air and nonsense. It fundamentally doesn't get the heart of the problem with the BBC. The licence fee isn't fit for the 21st Century, it is completely unenforceable and based on a totally outdated model.. But while the big boys like Sky, BT, Netflix have the deep pockets to outbid the BBC on one hand (so the BBC sport offering is a joke), they are also currently using that big beast position in other areas to drive small fish out of business in things that aren't the core of what the BBC should be about.
  • Options
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    If Dave goes will the Tories have their own Corbyn moment - someone from the ideologically pure eurosceptic hard-right running who somehow manages to win? Plenty will regard Cameron/Osborne centralism as a total waste of time and will be drooling for red meat. I think this could happen.

    Lets hope not or its goodbye majority time. Sadly the loons have forgotten how unelectable they were/are.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667

    Good article, Mortimer.

    As regards ministerial promotions, a lot will obviously depend on the timing of any changing of the guard, and that in turn depends on the referendum. A Leave result would surely be followed by a relatively quick Cameron resignation, which wouldn't leave much time for new talent to come to prominence. If it's a Remain result, then I imagine Cameron will want to reshuffle more extensively than he has in the past, perhaps giving some of the middle-aged cardinals more of a chance, and that might mean that any leadership contest in a couple of years' time could turn out to be rather different to how things look now.

    Still, as at today, I agree that Theresa May is the stand-out value.

    Cameron will hold on after a Leave vote, Osborne will take the fall. The reason is that there is no obvious successor to Dave. If Boris has been auditioning for the position over the last few weeks then he is in an even worse position now than when he started before the referendum.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,027
    edited May 2016
    RodCrosby said:

    I should cross the Republican nomination finish line on +~£1,000, which I am very happy with :).

    Me too. Trying to eke out the last £100 for £1111.

    POTUS Trump is now again offering me ~£1000 for cashout.
    POTUS Trump +2634.66
    Hillary over Trump +1253.28
    Sanders over GOP field -1846.24 <- Arf

    Overall fair value of book 1507.04 (Combined GOP, DEM, POTUS)

    That excludes some side bets where I need Trump to win "convincingly" - so in reality the Trump related bets are slightly better than that, and the non Trump ones slightly worse.
  • Options
    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    midwinter said:

    If Dave goes will the Tories have their own Corbyn moment - someone from the ideologically pure eurosceptic hard-right running who somehow manages to win? Plenty will regard Cameron/Osborne centralism as a total waste of time and will be drooling for red meat. I think this could happen.

    Lets hope not or its goodbye majority time. Sadly the loons have forgotten how unelectable they were/are.
    There appears to be a conspiracy not to mention Boris Johnson. I can't think why...

  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    I should cross the Republican nomination finish line on +~£1,000, which I am very happy with :).

    @Pulpstar will be pleased to hear that Cruz is actually my best outcome at +£2,500 :P

    +£170 because I went wobbly when the market did exactly what I expected it to do and I went and traded away profit, I should have been +£250.
  • Options
    GarethoftheVale2GarethoftheVale2 Posts: 2,002
    Interesting article Mortimer.

    I think the next parliament will probably see less new blood than the current one as room will have to be made for MPs displaced in the boundary review and the loss of 50 MPs overall.

    On the Tory side, Cameron promised has no-one will be left behind and he will have to be seen to be sticking to this to get the changes through. In some areas this will be easier than others:

    e.g. in Essex, Priti Patel's seat is likely to be the one to go but Sir Alan Haselhurst in Saffron Walden is 78 and can perhaps be persuaded to stand aside

    In Devon and Cornwall it is less clear which seat is disappearing as both counties lose 1/2 seat each. Also most of the Con MPs were elected in 2010 or 2015 so will be less inclined to retire.

    Another issue is Wales. Surely some of the Welsh MPs will have to be found seats in England, if Cameron is to keep his promise.

    A final issue is that some MPs will end up with less safe seats (e.g. David Davis is likely to end up facing Alan Johnson in a Haltemprice and Hull W)

    On the Labour side, Momentum will probably be looking at the boundary review as a chance for some "stealth" deselections. Tristram Hunt is definitely in trouble with the Potteries going from 4 to 3 Lab seats



  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    All this BBC salary stuff sounds a lot like the politics of envy to me.

    It's amazing that we'll publish BBC employees salaries but we won't make public a register of who owns Britain's lands.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,958
    MaxPB said:

    Good article, Mortimer.

    As regards ministerial promotions, a lot will obviously depend on the timing of any changing of the guard, and that in turn depends on the referendum. A Leave result would surely be followed by a relatively quick Cameron resignation, which wouldn't leave much time for new talent to come to prominence. If it's a Remain result, then I imagine Cameron will want to reshuffle more extensively than he has in the past, perhaps giving some of the middle-aged cardinals more of a chance, and that might mean that any leadership contest in a couple of years' time could turn out to be rather different to how things look now.

    Still, as at today, I agree that Theresa May is the stand-out value.

    Cameron will hold on after a Leave vote, Osborne will take the fall. The reason is that there is no obvious successor to Dave. If Boris has been auditioning for the position over the last few weeks then he is in an even worse position now than when he started before the referendum.
    Before mid-Feb, that strategy would have made total sense.

    But Cameron has nailed himself and his colours to the mast just that little bit too firmly for most members. If his leadership is no longer viewed as an election winning vehicle, I think it will be left at the side of the road.

    The political mercilessness of the Tory party when in government must not be forgotten.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,027
    The most amazing thing right now is old Bernie is an implied 85% chance for the presidency should he win the nomination !
  • Options
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 1,112

    midwinter said:

    If Dave goes will the Tories have their own Corbyn moment - someone from the ideologically pure eurosceptic hard-right running who somehow manages to win? Plenty will regard Cameron/Osborne centralism as a total waste of time and will be drooling for red meat. I think this could happen.

    Lets hope not or its goodbye majority time. Sadly the loons have forgotten how unelectable they were/are.
    There appears to be a conspiracy not to mention Boris Johnson. I can't think why...

    Just imagine an election with Corbyn leading Labour up against a (nameless) right wing (unelected) headbanger. Might even revive the Lib Dems flagging corpse......
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,958

    Interesting article Mortimer.

    I think the next parliament will probably see less new blood than the current one as room will have to be made for MPs displaced in the boundary review and the loss of 50 MPs overall.

    On the Tory side, Cameron promised has no-one will be left behind and he will have to be seen to be sticking to this to get the changes through. In some areas this will be easier than others:

    e.g. in Essex, Priti Patel's seat is likely to be the one to go but Sir Alan Haselhurst in Saffron Walden is 78 and can perhaps be persuaded to stand aside

    In Devon and Cornwall it is less clear which seat is disappearing as both counties lose 1/2 seat each. Also most of the Con MPs were elected in 2010 or 2015 so will be less inclined to retire.

    Another issue is Wales. Surely some of the Welsh MPs will have to be found seats in England, if Cameron is to keep his promise.

    A final issue is that some MPs will end up with less safe seats (e.g. David Davis is likely to end up facing Alan Johnson in a Haltemprice and Hull W)

    On the Labour side, Momentum will probably be looking at the boundary review as a chance for some "stealth" deselections. Tristram Hunt is definitely in trouble with the Potteries going from 4 to 3 Lab seats



    All very good points that I had not considered - do you think this will change timetables at all?
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited May 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    The most amazing thing right now is old Bernie is an implied 85% chance for the presidency should he win the nomination !

    He stuffs Trump on National and swing state polling.

    Once the Dem Primary is over the TRump surge will finish.

    I see the West Virginia Primary was an open Primary as well so my view on who the "Democratic Primary" voters would vote for in the General is that they should be taken with a tablespoon of salt.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,027
    An enjoyable article Mortimer :)
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited May 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    The most amazing thing right now is old Bernie is an implied 85% chance for the presidency should he win the nomination !

    I really want to see a Sanders for Trump thread - it's Kippers on steroids.

    Did you see this? There's so many interesting angles here.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-gops-electoral-map-problem-is-not-about-trump-its-about-demographics/2016/05/08/14cdf1fc-1523-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html
    Donald Trump’s victory last week in Indiana’s primary not only effectively sealed the GOP nomination for the real estate billionaire but also brought into sharp relief how difficult it will be for any Republican to get to 270 electoral votes and beat Hillary Clinton to become the 45th president this fall.

    Start here: Eighteen states plus the District of Columbia have voted for the Democratic presidential nominee in every election between 1992 and 2012. Add them up, and you get 242 electoral votes. By contrast, 13 states have voted for the Republican presidential nominee in each of the past six elections. Total them up and you get 102 electoral votes.

    There are two important takeaways from these facts: The generic Democratic nominee starts with an electoral vote lead of 140, and the Democratic nominee needs to find only 28 votes beyond that reliable base to win the presidency.
    PS Check your VM
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667
    Mortimer said:

    MaxPB said:

    Good article, Mortimer.

    As regards ministerial promotions, a lot will obviously depend on the timing of any changing of the guard, and that in turn depends on the referendum. A Leave result would surely be followed by a relatively quick Cameron resignation, which wouldn't leave much time for new talent to come to prominence. If it's a Remain result, then I imagine Cameron will want to reshuffle more extensively than he has in the past, perhaps giving some of the middle-aged cardinals more of a chance, and that might mean that any leadership contest in a couple of years' time could turn out to be rather different to how things look now.

    Still, as at today, I agree that Theresa May is the stand-out value.

    Cameron will hold on after a Leave vote, Osborne will take the fall. The reason is that there is no obvious successor to Dave. If Boris has been auditioning for the position over the last few weeks then he is in an even worse position now than when he started before the referendum.
    Before mid-Feb, that strategy would have made total sense.

    But Cameron has nailed himself and his colours to the mast just that little bit too firmly for most members. If his leadership is no longer viewed as an election winning vehicle, I think it will be left at the side of the road.

    The political mercilessness of the Tory party when in government must not be forgotten.
    Yes I can see where you're coming from, however, you need to balance that with the will to win. What is the Tory party if it doesn't have the desire to win above all else, it is the party of IDS. Without a credible leader to replace Dave, he will stay, the challenge won't come and Dave has said time and again he won't resign.

    He will reshuffle to a unity Cabinet, Osborne, Javid and possibly Hammond will make way for the Leave big guns.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986

    Scott_P said:

    Also interesting it says "salaries". Graham Norton doesn't get paid a salary by the BBC, but he is one of the best remunerated.

    I think that may be Twitter shorthand

    @BethRigby: EXCL: The govt WILL ask #BBC stars to disclose their earnings -- if they are over £450k: Basically anyone earning more than Lord Hall
    Even then, I can foresee ways in which that can be avoided and see the luuvies end up with a big wedge. Also Graham Norton getting a big load of cash is a tiny drop in their budget, while they go blowing far more money on other nonsense e.g. £1bn on failed IT projects.

    All this though again is really just a lot of hot air and nonsense. It fundamentally doesn't get the heart of the problem with the BBC. The licence fee isn't fit for the 21st Century, it is completely unenforceable and based on a totally outdated model.. But while the big boys like Sky, BT, Netflix have the deep pockets to outbid the BBC on one hand (so the BBC sport offering is a joke), they are also currently using that big beast position in other areas to drive small fish out of business in things that aren't the core of what the BBC should be about.

    The BBC has brand recognition and equity unequalled anywhere in broadcasting. If it became a subscription based service, then it would be able to charge what Sky does and insist that its offerings are removed from the Sky platform. It could also compete with ITV and Sky for advertising. And, on top of that, raise money in the capital markets. There is, in fact, every chance that it would become bigger and more dominant than it is at the moment.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,027

    Pulpstar said:

    The most amazing thing right now is old Bernie is an implied 85% chance for the presidency should he win the nomination !

    I really want to see a Sanders for Trump thread - it's Kippers on steroids.

    Did you see this? There's so many interesting angles here.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-gops-electoral-map-problem-is-not-about-trump-its-about-demographics/2016/05/08/14cdf1fc-1523-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html

    PS Check your VM
    I'm a micro :D
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited May 2016

    Scott_P said:

    Also interesting it says "salaries". Graham Norton doesn't get paid a salary by the BBC, but he is one of the best remunerated.

    I think that may be Twitter shorthand

    @BethRigby: EXCL: The govt WILL ask #BBC stars to disclose their earnings -- if they are over £450k: Basically anyone earning more than Lord Hall
    Even then, I can foresee ways in which that can be avoided and see the luuvies end up with a big wedge. Also Graham Norton getting a big load of cash is a tiny drop in their budget, while they go blowing far more money on other nonsense e.g. £1bn on failed IT projects.

    All this though again is really just a lot of hot air and nonsense. It fundamentally doesn't get the heart of the problem with the BBC. The licence fee isn't fit for the 21st Century, it is completely unenforceable and based on a totally outdated model.. But while the big boys like Sky, BT, Netflix have the deep pockets to outbid the BBC on one hand (so the BBC sport offering is a joke), they are also currently using that big beast position in other areas to drive small fish out of business in things that aren't the core of what the BBC should be about.

    The BBC has brand recognition and equity unequalled anywhere in broadcasting. If it became a subscription based service, then it would be able to charge what Sky does and insist that its offerings are removed from the Sky platform. It could also compete with ITV and Sky for advertising. And, on top of that, raise money in the capital markets. There is, in fact, every chance that it would become bigger and more dominant than it is at the moment.
    Do you know that the BBC used to pay Sky to carry the BBC channels?
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    MaxPB said:

    He will reshuffle to a unity Cabinet, Osborne, Javid and possibly Hammond will make way for the Leave big guns.

    Can someone reconcile for me

    1. Cameron will promote Leavers in a reshuffle
    2. Cameron will be gone 24 hours after the vote

    ?
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,689
    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    Also interesting it says "salaries". Graham Norton doesn't get paid a salary by the BBC, but he is one of the best remunerated.

    I think that may be Twitter shorthand

    @BethRigby: EXCL: The govt WILL ask #BBC stars to disclose their earnings -- if they are over £450k: Basically anyone earning more than Lord Hall
    Even then, I can foresee ways in which that can be avoided and see the luuvies end up with a big wedge. Also Graham Norton getting a big load of cash is a tiny drop in their budget, while they go blowing far more money on other nonsense e.g. £1bn on failed IT projects.

    All this though again is really just a lot of hot air and nonsense. It fundamentally doesn't get the heart of the problem with the BBC. The licence fee isn't fit for the 21st Century, it is completely unenforceable and based on a totally outdated model.. But while the big boys like Sky, BT, Netflix have the deep pockets to outbid the BBC on one hand (so the BBC sport offering is a joke), they are also currently using that big beast position in other areas to drive small fish out of business in things that aren't the core of what the BBC should be about.

    The BBC has brand recognition and equity unequalled anywhere in broadcasting. If it became a subscription based service, then it would be able to charge what Sky does and insist that its offerings are removed from the Sky platform. It could also compete with ITV and Sky for advertising. And, on top of that, raise money in the capital markets. There is, in fact, every chance that it would become bigger and more dominant than it is at the moment.
    Do you know that the BBC pays Sky to carry the BBC channels?
    They stopped paying those fees a few years ago

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36267052
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    edited May 2016

    Pulpstar said:

    The most amazing thing right now is old Bernie is an implied 85% chance for the presidency should he win the nomination !

    I really want to see a Sanders for Trump thread - it's Kippers on steroids.

    Did you see this? There's so many interesting angles here.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-gops-electoral-map-problem-is-not-about-trump-its-about-demographics/2016/05/08/14cdf1fc-1523-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html

    PS Check your VM
    That article tells you in a few paragraphs why control of immigration is THE key geopolitical and economic weapon in the 21st century and why the elite are so desperate to prevent British voters getting control of it.

    In the past the voters would say 'if we don;t like the government we'll get a new one'. Now governments say 'if we don;t like the voters, we'll get new ones'.

  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    Also interesting it says "salaries". Graham Norton doesn't get paid a salary by the BBC, but he is one of the best remunerated.

    I think that may be Twitter shorthand

    @BethRigby: EXCL: The govt WILL ask #BBC stars to disclose their earnings -- if they are over £450k: Basically anyone earning more than Lord Hall
    Even then, I can foresee ways in which that can be avoided and see the luuvies end up with a big wedge. Also Graham Norton getting a big load of cash is a tiny drop in their budget, while they go blowing far more money on other nonsense e.g. £1bn on failed IT projects.

    All this though again is really just a lot of hot air and nonsense. It fundamentally doesn't get the heart of the problem with the BBC. The licence fee isn't fit for the 21st Century, it is completely unenforceable and based on a totally outdated model.. But while the big boys like Sky, BT, Netflix have the deep pockets to outbid the BBC on one hand (so the BBC sport offering is a joke), they are also currently using that big beast position in other areas to drive small fish out of business in things that aren't the core of what the BBC should be about.

    The BBC has brand recognition and equity unequalled anywhere in broadcasting. If it became a subscription based service, then it would be able to charge what Sky does and insist that its offerings are removed from the Sky platform. It could also compete with ITV and Sky for advertising. And, on top of that, raise money in the capital markets. There is, in fact, every chance that it would become bigger and more dominant than it is at the moment.
    Do you know that the BBC pays Sky to carry the BBC channels?
    They stopped paying those fees a few years ago

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36267052
    As my post said, I have no idea why you've clearly edited my post. :wink:
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,451
    Good article. Just to note though, Benn was a junior minister at the Home Office at the time of the Iraq War, rather than a member of the cabinet.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Scott_P said:

    MaxPB said:

    He will reshuffle to a unity Cabinet, Osborne, Javid and possibly Hammond will make way for the Leave big guns.

    Can someone reconcile for me

    1. Cameron will promote Leavers in a reshuffle
    2. Cameron will be gone 24 hours after the vote

    ?
    He'll do the reshuffle within 24 hours of the vote. Easy.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The most amazing thing right now is old Bernie is an implied 85% chance for the presidency should he win the nomination !

    I really want to see a Sanders for Trump thread - it's Kippers on steroids.

    Did you see this? There's so many interesting angles here.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-gops-electoral-map-problem-is-not-about-trump-its-about-demographics/2016/05/08/14cdf1fc-1523-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html

    PS Check your VM
    I'm a micro :D
    Can you send me an email address? I've called you Mr P Star.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    edited May 2016

    Scott_P said:

    Also interesting it says "salaries". Graham Norton doesn't get paid a salary by the BBC, but he is one of the best remunerated.

    I think that may be Twitter shorthand

    @BethRigby: EXCL: The govt WILL ask #BBC stars to disclose their earnings -- if they are over £450k: Basically anyone earning more than Lord Hall
    Even then, I can foresee ways in which that can be avoided and see the luuvies end up with a big wedge. Also Graham Norton getting a big load of cash is a tiny drop in their budget, while they go blowing far more money on other nonsense e.g. £1bn on failed IT projects.

    All this though again is really just a lot of hot air and nonsense. It fundamentally doesn't get the heart of the problem with the BBC. The licence fee isn't fit for the 21st Century, it is completely unenforceable and based on a totally outdated model.. But while the big boys like Sky, BT, Netflix have the deep pockets to outbid the BBC on one hand (so the BBC sport offering is a joke), they are also currently using that big beast position in other areas to drive small fish out of business in things that aren't the core of what the BBC should be about.

    The BBC has brand recognition and equity unequalled anywhere in broadcasting. If it became a subscription based service, then it would be able to charge what Sky does and insist that its offerings are removed from the Sky platform. It could also compete with ITV and Sky for advertising. And, on top of that, raise money in the capital markets. There is, in fact, every chance that it would become bigger and more dominant than it is at the moment.
    Shouldn't be a problem then...

    My main issue is the licence fee can't be enforced, as it is based on the idea that everybody sits in front of moving picture box in our living room. Even this tinkering at somehow making iPlayer password protected doesn't really address this.

    It reminds me of the way the record companies stuck their heads in the sand over music downloads then streaming for far too long. Holding desperately to this notion that people will still go out and buy the physical copy of their favourite music.

    The pirate sites already upload HD versions of all major tv within minutes of their broadcast. One of the biggest selling devices last Christmas, the Amazon Fire Stick, and it wasn't because people wanted to watch Amazon Prime.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,958

    Good article. Just to note though, Benn was a junior minister at the Home Office at the time of the Iraq War, rather than a member of the cabinet.

    Whoops - well spotted; thanks!
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,451

    Scott_P said:

    Also interesting it says "salaries". Graham Norton doesn't get paid a salary by the BBC, but he is one of the best remunerated.

    I think that may be Twitter shorthand

    @BethRigby: EXCL: The govt WILL ask #BBC stars to disclose their earnings -- if they are over £450k: Basically anyone earning more than Lord Hall
    Even then, I can foresee ways in which that can be avoided and see the luuvies end up with a big wedge. Also Graham Norton getting a big load of cash is a tiny drop in their budget, while they go blowing far more money on other nonsense e.g. £1bn on failed IT projects.

    All this though again is really just a lot of hot air and nonsense. It fundamentally doesn't get the heart of the problem with the BBC. The licence fee isn't fit for the 21st Century, it is completely unenforceable and based on a totally outdated model.. But while the big boys like Sky, BT, Netflix have the deep pockets to outbid the BBC on one hand (so the BBC sport offering is a joke), they are also currently using that big beast position in other areas to drive small fish out of business in things that aren't the core of what the BBC should be about.
    Precisely. make it a subscription service and set it free.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @PaulBrandITV: Looks like Tories *could* back @LeanneWood to become First Minister of Wales in Assembly vote, to block Carwyn Jones https://t.co/tGEnITYis9
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,027

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The most amazing thing right now is old Bernie is an implied 85% chance for the presidency should he win the nomination !

    I really want to see a Sanders for Trump thread - it's Kippers on steroids.

    Did you see this? There's so many interesting angles here.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-gops-electoral-map-problem-is-not-about-trump-its-about-demographics/2016/05/08/14cdf1fc-1523-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html

    PS Check your VM
    I'm a micro :D
    Can you send me an email address? I've called you Mr P Star.
    Le sent.
  • Options
    TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited May 2016
    Mortimer said:

    Excellent first thread, Mortimer.

    Interesting that perceived wisdom amongst party members is that Osborne's leadership hopes are dead in the water. Still not sure about the older Pope. The next leader is taking the party through the 2020's. May is 60 in October, 70 by 2026. That is going to feel like the Party is going backwards after the relative youth of Cameron when elected leader.

    I can see a scenario where Cameron goes this year, with Gove elected as an interim leader for two years. This will be on the understanding that he will bring the party together after the Referendum - and have an extended beauty parade for the next leader to take the party into the 2020's.

    Thanks for all the positive comments! This pretty much wrote itself whilst I was pondering a thread and the Chilcot announcement came out.

    I'd be happy to see a decent interim followed by a beauty parade. That could allow Greg Clark to shine....
    Greg Clark no chance.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986

    Scott_P said:

    Also interesting it says "salaries". Graham Norton doesn't get paid a salary by the BBC, but he is one of the best remunerated.

    I think that may be Twitter shorthand

    @BethRigby: EXCL: The govt WILL ask #BBC stars to disclose their earnings -- if they are over £450k: Basically anyone earning more than Lord Hall
    beast position in other areas to drive small fish out of business in things that aren't the core of what the BBC should be about.

    The BBC has brand recognition and equity unequalled anywhere in broadcasting. If it became a subscription based service, then it would be able to charge what Sky does and insist that its offerings are removed from the Sky platform. It could also compete with ITV and Sky for advertising. And, on top of that, raise money in the capital markets. There is, in fact, every chance that it would become bigger and more dominant than it is at the moment.
    Shouldn't be a problem then...

    My main issue is the licence fee can't be enforced, as it is based on the idea that everybody sits in front of moving picture box in our living room. Even this tinkering at somehow making iPlayer password protected doesn't really address this.

    It reminds me of the way the record companies stuck their heads in the sand over music downloads then streaming for far too long. Holding desperately to this notion that people will still go out and buy the physical copy of their favourite music.

    The pirate sites already upload HD versions of all major tv within minutes of their broadcast. One of the biggest selling devices last Christmas, the Amazon Fire Stick, and it wasn't because people wanted to watch Amazon Prime.

    I am all for the BBC being subscription-based. The challenge will be in selling it to the public. The cheapest Sky package currently is £20 a month. That's around double the cost of an annual licence fee. Basically, changing the funding model to subscription will require a government to legislate to increase the cost of watching the telly. Who is going to do that?

  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,616
    Interesting read, Mr Mortimer! Many thanks.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986
    Alistair said:

    Scott_P said:

    Also interesting it says "salaries". Graham Norton doesn't get paid a salary by the BBC, but he is one of the best remunerated.

    I think that may be Twitter shorthand

    @BethRigby: EXCL: The govt WILL ask #BBC stars to disclose their earnings -- if they are over £450k: Basically anyone earning more than Lord Hall
    Even then, I can foresee ways in which that can be avoided and see the luuvies end up with a big wedge. Also Graham Norton getting a big load of cash is a tiny drop in their budget, while they go blowing far more money on other nonsense e.g. £1bn on failed IT projects.

    All this though again is really just a lot of hot air and nonsense. It fundamentally doesn't get the heart of the problem with the BBC. The licence fee isn't fit for the 21st Century, it is completely unenforceable and based on a totally outdated model.. But while the big boys like Sky, BT, Netflix have the deep pockets to outbid the BBC on one hand (so the BBC sport offering is a joke), they are also currently using that big beast position in other areas to drive small fish out of business in things that aren't the core of what the BBC should be about.

    The BBC has brand recognition and equity unequalled anywhere in broadcasting. If it became a subscription based service, then it would be able to charge what Sky does and insist that its offerings are removed from the Sky platform. It could also compete with ITV and Sky for advertising. And, on top of that, raise money in the capital markets. There is, in fact, every chance that it would become bigger and more dominant than it is at the moment.
    Do you know that the BBC used to pay Sky to carry the BBC channels?

    Yep, it was forced to.

  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667

    Scott_P said:

    Also interesting it says "salaries". Graham Norton doesn't get paid a salary by the BBC, but he is one of the best remunerated.

    I think that may be Twitter shorthand

    @BethRigby: EXCL: The govt WILL ask #BBC stars to disclose their earnings -- if they are over £450k: Basically anyone earning more than Lord Hall
    Even then, I can foresee ways in which that can be avoided and see the luuvies end up with a big wedge. Also Graham Norton getting a big load of cash is a tiny drop in their budget, while they go blowing far more money on other nonsense e.g. £1bn on failed IT projects.

    All this though again is really just a lot of hot air and nonsense. It fundamentally doesn't get the heart of the problem with the BBC. The licence fee isn't fit for the 21st Century, it is completely unenforceable and based on a totally outdated model.. But while the big boys like Sky, BT, Netflix have the deep pockets to outbid the BBC on one hand (so the BBC sport offering is a joke), they are also currently using that big beast position in other areas to drive small fish out of business in things that aren't the core of what the BBC should be about.

    The BBC has brand recognition and equity unequalled anywhere in broadcasting. If it became a subscription based service, then it would be able to charge what Sky does and insist that its offerings are removed from the Sky platform. It could also compete with ITV and Sky for advertising. And, on top of that, raise money in the capital markets. There is, in fact, every chance that it would become bigger and more dominant than it is at the moment.
    I would be more than happy to test that theory. End the licence fee and make the BBC subscription only, Sky and Liberty can pay them carriage charges or they can take the BT Sport route and force people to sign up manually. I think the BBC could definitely survive and eventually thrive under the HBO model, but I don't think it would happen over night and neither would it be pain free, there is so much fat at the BBC that would need to be trimmed in favour of TV and radio production that thousands would need to be culled, the Salford production centre would be shut down and the jobs moved back to London and many, many millions would refuse to pay the new subscription fees and do without BBC programmes.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822

    Scott_P said:

    Also interesting it says "salaries". Graham Norton doesn't get paid a salary by the BBC, but he is one of the best remunerated.

    I think that may be Twitter shorthand

    @BethRigby: EXCL: The govt WILL ask #BBC stars to disclose their earnings -- if they are over £450k: Basically anyone earning more than Lord Hall
    Even then, I can foresee ways in which that can be avoided and see the luuvies end up with a big wedge. Also Graham Norton getting a big load of cash is a tiny drop in their budget, while they go blowing far more money on other nonsense e.g. £1bn on failed IT projects.

    All this though again is really just a lot of hot air and nonsense. It fundamentally doesn't get the heart of the problem with the BBC. The licence fee isn't fit for the 21st Century, it is completely unenforceable and based on a totally outdated model.. But while the big boys like Sky, BT, Netflix have the deep pockets to outbid the BBC on one hand (so the BBC sport offering is a joke), they are also currently using that big beast position in other areas to drive small fish out of business in things that aren't the core of what the BBC should be about.

    The BBC has brand recognition and equity unequalled anywhere in broadcasting. If it became a subscription based service, then it would be able to charge what Sky does and insist that its offerings are removed from the Sky platform. It could also compete with ITV and Sky for advertising. And, on top of that, raise money in the capital markets. There is, in fact, every chance that it would become bigger and more dominant than it is at the moment.
    Shouldn't be a problem then...

    My main issue is the licence fee can't be enforced, as it is based on the idea that everybody sits in front of moving picture box in our living room. Even this tinkering at somehow making iPlayer password protected doesn't really address this.

    It reminds me of the way the record companies stuck their heads in the sand over music downloads then streaming for far too long. Holding desperately to this notion that people will still go out and buy the physical copy of their favourite music.

    The pirate sites already upload HD versions of all major tv within minutes of their broadcast. One of the biggest selling devices last Christmas, the Amazon Fire Stick, and it wasn't because people wanted to watch Amazon Prime.
    Quite. Your music analogy is spot on. I watch stuff from everywhere.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The most amazing thing right now is old Bernie is an implied 85% chance for the presidency should he win the nomination !

    I really want to see a Sanders for Trump thread - it's Kippers on steroids.

    Did you see this? There's so many interesting angles here.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/the-gops-electoral-map-problem-is-not-about-trump-its-about-demographics/2016/05/08/14cdf1fc-1523-11e6-924d-838753295f9a_story.html

    PS Check your VM
    I'm a micro :D
    Can you send me an email address? I've called you Mr P Star.
    Le sent.
    On its way.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,252
    MaxPB said:

    Scott_P said:

    Also interesting it says "salaries". Graham Norton doesn't get paid a salary by the BBC, but he is one of the best remunerated.

    I think that may be Twitter shorthand

    @BethRigby: EXCL: The govt WILL ask #BBC stars to disclose their earnings -- if they are over £450k: Basically anyone earning more than Lord Hall
    Even then, I can foresee ways in which that can be avoided and see the luuvies end up with a big wedge. Also Graham Norton getting a big load of cash is a tiny drop in their budget, while they go blowing far more money on other nonsense e.g. £1bn on failed IT projects.

    All this though again is really just a lot of hot air and nonsense. It fundamentally doesn't get the heart of the problem with the BBC. The licence fee isn't fit for the 21st Century, it is completely unenforceable and based on a totally outdated model.. But while the big boys like Sky, BT, Netflix have the deep pockets to outbid the BBC on one hand (so the BBC sport offering is a joke), they are also currently using that big beast position in other areas to drive small fish out of business in things that aren't the core of what the BBC should be about.

    The BBC has brand recognition and equity unequalled anywhere in broadcasting. If it became a subscription based service, then it would be able to charge what Sky does and insist that its offerings are removed from the Sky platform. It could also compete with ITV and Sky for advertising. And, on top of that, raise money in the capital markets. There is, in fact, every chance that it would become bigger and more dominant than it is at the moment.
    I would be more than happy to test that theory. End the licence fee and make the BBC subscription only, Sky and Liberty can pay them carriage charges or they can take the BT Sport route and force people to sign up manually. I think the BBC could definitely survive and eventually thrive under the HBO model, but I don't think it would happen over night and neither would it be pain free, there is so much fat at the BBC that would need to be trimmed in favour of TV and radio production that thousands would need to be culled, the Salford production centre would be shut down and the jobs moved back to London and many, many millions would refuse to pay the new subscription fees and do without BBC programmes.
    The big opportunity for the BBC is to compete to become the a leading player across the English speaking media market. They should see their competition as Netflix and Amazon.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822

    Mortimer said:

    Excellent first thread, Mortimer.

    Interesting that perceived wisdom amongst party members is that Osborne's leadership hopes are dead in the water. Still not sure about the older Pope. The next leader is taking the party through the 2020's. May is 60 in October, 70 by 2026. That is going to feel like the Party is going backwards after the relative youth of Cameron when elected leader.

    I can see a scenario where Cameron goes this year, with Gove elected as an interim leader for two years. This will be on the understanding that he will bring the party together after the Referendum - and have an extended beauty parade for the next leader to take the party into the 2020's.

    Thanks for all the positive comments! This pretty much wrote itself whilst I was pondering a thread and the Chilcot announcement came out.

    I'd be happy to see a decent interim followed by a beauty parade. That could allow Greg Clark to shine....
    Greg Clark no chance.
    Dominic Raab has done well recently - didn't notice him much before.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986
    MaxPB said:

    Scott_P said:

    Also interesting it says "salaries". Graham Norton doesn't get paid a salary by the BBC, but he is one of the best remunerated.

    I think that may be Twitter shorthand

    @BethRigby: EXCL: The govt WILL ask #BBC stars to disclose their earnings -- if they are over £450k: Basically anyone earning more than Lord Hall
    to drive small fish out of business in things that aren't the core of what the BBC should be about.

    The BBC has brand recognition and equity unequalled anywhere in broadcasting. If it became a subscription based service, then it would be able to charge what Sky does and insist that its offerings are removed from the Sky platform. It could also compete with ITV and Sky for advertising. And, on top of that, raise money in the capital markets. There is, in fact, every chance that it would become bigger and more dominant than it is at the moment.
    I would be more than happy to test that theory. End the licence fee and make the BBC subscription only, Sky and Liberty can pay them carriage charges or they can take the BT Sport route and force people to sign up manually. I think the BBC could definitely survive and eventually thrive under the HBO model, but I don't think it would happen over night and neither would it be pain free, there is so much fat at the BBC that would need to be trimmed in favour of TV and radio production that thousands would need to be culled, the Salford production centre would be shut down and the jobs moved back to London and many, many millions would refuse to pay the new subscription fees and do without BBC programmes.

    I disagree. I think that the increased subscription fee would balance the drop off in subscribers. The BBC's programming is popular and most people would pay to retain access to it. The Sky platform would also become a lot less attractive as it would no longer include any BBC offerings. I imagine that there would be job losses, but what can you do? These things happen. But what government is going to legislate to make watching TV more expensive?

  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,451
    Scott_P said:

    @PaulBrandITV: Looks like Tories *could* back @LeanneWood to become First Minister of Wales in Assembly vote, to block Carwyn Jones https://t.co/tGEnITYis9

    She'd be daft to take it with Labour holding very nearly half the AMs.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986

    MaxPB said:

    Scott_P said:

    Also interesting it says "salaries". Graham Norton doesn't get paid a salary by the BBC, but he is one of the best remunerated.

    I think that may be Twitter shorthand

    @BethRigby: EXCL: The govt WILL ask #BBC stars to disclose their earnings -- if they are over £450k: Basically anyone earning more than Lord Hall
    Even then, I can foresee ways in which that can be avoided and see the luuvies end up with a big wedge. Also Graham Norton getting a big load of cash is a tiny drop in their budget, while they go blowing far more money on other nonsense e.g. £1bn on failed IT projects.

    All this though again is really just a lot of hot air and nonsense. It fundamentally doesn't get the heart of the problem with the BBC. The licence fee isn't fit for the 21st Century, it is completely unenforceable and based on a totally outdated model.. But while the big boys like Sky, BT, Netflix have the deep pockets to outbid the BBC on one hand (so the BBC sport offering is a joke), they are also currently using that big beast position in other areas to drive small fish out of business in things that aren't the core of what the BBC should be about.

    The BBC has brand recognition and equity unequalled anywhere in broadcasting. If it became a subscription based service, then it would be able to charge what Sky does and insist that its offerings are removed from the Sky platform. It could also compete with ITV and Sky for advertising. And, on top of that, raise money in the capital markets. There is, in fact, every chance that it would become bigger and more dominant than it is at the moment.
    I would be more than happy to test that theory. End the licence fee and make the BBC to be culled, the Salford production centre would be shut down and the jobs moved back to London and many, many millions would refuse to pay the new subscription fees and do without BBC programmes.
    The big opportunity for the BBC is to compete to become the a leading player across the English speaking media market. They should see their competition as Netflix and Amazon.

    A subscription-based BBC would have so many exciting opportunities - both in the UK and internationally. I don't think this government or any other one is brave enough to make it happen though.

  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    edited May 2016



    I disagree. I think that the increased subscription fee would balance the drop off in subscribers. The BBC's programming is popular and most people would pay to retain access to it. The Sky platform would also become a lot less attractive as it would no longer include any BBC offerings. I imagine that there would be job losses, but what can you do? These things happen. But what government is going to legislate to make watching TV more expensive?

    You are thinking about this way too much in regards of today, rather than 5-10 years down the line, which is what this government consultation is supposed to be about.

    This idea of these platforms where one can only access it via an aerial or a satellite dish is going to be obsolete. Radio, as in analogue via an aerial, as we know it today won't exist. DAB isn't going to replace it, internet streaming is. In your car, on the move etc etc etc. Same with video streaming.

    All the content providers are too over protective of their material, desperately trying to ring fence them on different platforms and different regions. In music, that has basically been blow out of the water. If you aren't on Spotify you are either one of probably 20 artists big enough to be able to get away with that or a moron (and even if you are the former you are probably still the later).
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,616

    Scott_P said:

    @PaulBrandITV: Looks like Tories *could* back @LeanneWood to become First Minister of Wales in Assembly vote, to block Carwyn Jones https://t.co/tGEnITYis9

    She'd be daft to take it with Labour holding very nearly half the AMs.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-wales-politics-36257904


    The vote for First Minister was tied 29-29, and the Presiding Officer says plenary is postponed.

    So Mr Jones fails to be elected first minister, but will continue to act as FM while he seeks allies.

    The Conservatives and UKIP supported moves by Plaid Cymru to give the job to Plaid leader Leanne Wood instead
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    I'd go for the keeping-the-pub-open campaigner. Hardest to characterise as an Islamist.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @C4Ciaran: "What do I do now?" Presiding Officer is overheard asking.

    Welsh Assembly fails to nominate First Minister and is adjourned.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    MaxPB said:

    Scott_P said:

    Also interesting it says "salaries". Graham Norton doesn't get paid a salary by the BBC, but he is one of the best remunerated.

    I think that may be Twitter shorthand

    @BethRigby: EXCL: The govt WILL ask #BBC stars to disclose their earnings -- if they are over £450k: Basically anyone earning more than Lord Hall
    Even then, I can foresee ways in which that can be avoided and see the luuvies end up with a big wedge. Also Graham Norton getting a big load of cash is a tiny drop in their budget, while they go blowing far more money on other nonsense e.g. £1bn on failed IT projects.

    snip

    The BBC has brand recognition and equity unequalled anywhere in broadcasting. If it became a subscription based service, then it would be able to charge what Sky does and insist that its offerings are removed from the Sky platform. It could also compete with ITV and Sky for advertising. And, on top of that, raise money in the capital markets. There is, in fact, every chance that it would become bigger and more dominant than it is at the moment.
    I would be more than happy to test that theory. End the licence fee and make the BBC subscription only, Sky and Liberty can pay them carriage charges or they can take the BT Sport route and force people to sign up manually. I think the BBC could definitely survive and eventually thrive under the HBO model, but I don't think it would happen over night and neither would it be pain free, there is so much fat at the BBC that would need to be trimmed in favour of TV and radio production that thousands would need to be culled, the Salford production centre would be shut down and the jobs moved back to London and many, many millions would refuse to pay the new subscription fees and do without BBC programmes.
    I no longer visit the BBC's website, don't watch their TV bar the odd DP pointed to on here, and don't bother with their radio. I don't feel I'm losing anything. There's so much choice out there. I happily pay for Netflix, Amazon and the Times. I've no problem paying for what I want - I object very deeply to being threatened with imprisonment for not paying the Telly Tax.

    It's like buying a washing machine and forced to buy Daz, when I choose Persil.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,451

    MaxPB said:

    Scott_P said:

    Also interesting it says "salaries". Graham Norton doesn't get paid a salary by the BBC, but he is one of the best remunerated.

    I think that may be Twitter shorthand

    @BethRigby: EXCL: The govt WILL ask #BBC stars to disclose their earnings -- if they are over £450k: Basically anyone earning more than Lord Hall
    to drive small fish out of business in things that aren't the core of what the BBC should be about.

    The BBC has brand recognition and equity unequalled anywhere in broadcasting. If it became a subscription based service, then it would be able to charge what Sky does and insist that its offerings are removed from the Sky platform. It could also compete with ITV and Sky for advertising. And, on top of that, raise money in the capital markets. There is, in fact, every chance that it would become bigger and more dominant than it is at the moment.
    I would be more than happy to test that theory. End the licence fee and make the BBC subscription only, Sky and Liberty can pay them carriage charges or they can take the BT Sport route and force people to sign up manually. I think the BBC could definitely survive and eventually thrive under the HBO model, but I don't think it would happen over night and neither would it be pain free, there is so much fat at the BBC that would need to be trimmed in favour of TV and radio production that thousands would need to be culled, the Salford production centre would be shut down and the jobs moved back to London and many, many millions would refuse to pay the new subscription fees and do without BBC programmes.

    I disagree. I think that the increased subscription fee would balance the drop off in subscribers. The BBC's programming is popular and most people would pay to retain access to it. The Sky platform would also become a lot less attractive as it would no longer include any BBC offerings. I imagine that there would be job losses, but what can you do? These things happen. But what government is going to legislate to make watching TV more expensive?

    They wouldn't. Grant a two-year Charter to cover the conversion period, then guarantee the subscription amount until 2021. After that, let it float freely. The govt would say the fee isn't their decision any more.

    One option - as regards ownership - would be to mutualise the Beeb: make it owned by the subscribers. That way, they'd elect the directors and would have even less cause to blame the government.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Scott_P said:

    MaxPB said:

    He will reshuffle to a unity Cabinet, Osborne, Javid and possibly Hammond will make way for the Leave big guns.

    Can someone reconcile for me

    1. Cameron will promote Leavers in a reshuffle
    2. Cameron will be gone 24 hours after the vote

    ?
    Well, imo 2 is correct though it might be longer than 24 hours.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,027

    Scott_P said:

    @PaulBrandITV: Looks like Tories *could* back @LeanneWood to become First Minister of Wales in Assembly vote, to block Carwyn Jones https://t.co/tGEnITYis9

    She'd be daft to take it with Labour holding very nearly half the AMs.
    12 AMs for Plaid !

    It'll be alot less if Leanne Wood becomes FM backed by the Conservatives in 2020...
  • Options
    logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,739

    MaxPB said:

    Scott_P said:

    Also interesting it says "salaries". Graham Norton doesn't get paid a salary by the BBC, but he is one of the best remunerated.

    I think that may be Twitter shorthand

    @BethRigby: EXCL: The govt WILL ask #BBC stars to disclose their earnings -- if they are over £450k: Basically anyone earning more than Lord Hall
    to drive small fish out of business in things that aren't the core of what the BBC should be about.

    The BBC has brand recognition and equity unequalled anywhere in broadcasting. If it became a subscription based service, then it would be able to charge what Sky does and insist that its offerings are removed from the Sky platform. It could also compete with ITV and Sky for advertising. And, on top of that, raise money in the capital markets. There is, in fact, every chance that it would become bigger and more dominant than it is at the moment.
    I would be more than happy to test that theory. End the licence fee and make the BBC subscription only, Sky and Liberty can pay them carriage charges or they can take the BT Sport route and force people to sign up manually. I think the BBC could definitely survive and eventually thrive under the HBO model, but I don't think it would happen over night and neither would it be pain free, there is so much fat at the BBC that would need to be trimmed in favour of TV and radio production that thousands would need to be culled, the Salford production centre would be shut down and the jobs moved back to London and many, many millions would refuse to pay the new subscription fees and do without BBC programmes.

    I disagree. I think that the increased subscription fee would balance the drop off in subscribers. The BBC's programming is popular and most people would pay to retain access to it. The Sky platform would also become a lot less attractive as it would no longer include any BBC offerings. I imagine that there would be job losses, but what can you do? These things happen. But what government is going to legislate to make watching TV more expensive?

    The BBC isn't broken, don't fix it. Whittingdale won't last if he keeps attacking the BBC.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667

    MaxPB said:

    Scott_P said:

    Also interesting it says "salaries". Graham Norton doesn't get paid a salary by the BBC, but he is one of the best remunerated.

    I think that may be Twitter shorthand

    @BethRigby: EXCL: The govt WILL ask #BBC stars to disclose their earnings -- if they are over £450k: Basically anyone earning more than Lord Hall
    to drive small fish out of business in things that aren't the core of what the BBC should be about.

    The BBC has brand recognition and equity unequalled anywhere in broadcasting. If it became a subscription based service, then it would be able to charge what Sky does and insist that its offerings are removed from the Sky platform. It could also compete with ITV and Sky for advertising. And, on top of that, raise money in the capital markets. There is, in fact, every chance that it would become bigger and more dominant than it is at the moment.
    I would be more than happy to test that theory. End the licence fee and make the BBC subscription only, Sky and Liberty can pay them carriage charges or they can take the BT Sport route and force people to sign up manually. I think the BBC could definitely survive and eventually thrive under the HBO model, but I don't think it would happen over night and neither would it be pain free, there is so much fat at the BBC that would need to be trimmed in favour of TV and radio production that thousands would need to be culled, the Salford production centre would be shut down and the jobs moved back to London and many, many millions would refuse to pay the new subscription fees and do without BBC programmes.

    I disagree. I think that the increased subscription fee would balance the drop off in subscribers. The BBC's programming is popular and most people would pay to retain access to it. The Sky platform would also become a lot less attractive as it would no longer include any BBC offerings. I imagine that there would be job losses, but what can you do? These things happen. But what government is going to legislate to make watching TV more expensive?

    One imagines Sky and the BBC would come to an agreement for carriage fees. Both parties would be stupid not to.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986



    I disagree. I think that the increased subscription fee would balance the drop off in subscribers. The BBC's programming is popular and most people would pay to retain access to it. The Sky platform would also become a lot less attractive as it would no longer include any BBC offerings. I imagine that there would be job losses, but what can you do? These things happen. But what government is going to legislate to make watching TV more expensive?

    You are thinking about this way too much in regards of today, rather than 5-10 years down the line. This idea of these platforms where one can only access it via an aerial or a satellite dish is going to be obsolete.

    All the content providers are too over protective of their material, desperately trying to ring fence them on different platforms and different regions. In music, that has basically been blow out of the water. If you aren't on Spotify you are either one of probably 20 artists big enough to be able to get away with that or a moron (and even if you are the former you are probably still the later).

    I am looking at the BBC brand. Name recognition is at least half the battle, whatever platforms emerge over the coming years. The BBC has huge - unmatched - global brand equity. The opportunities that will create are immense.

  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,616

    MaxPB said:

    Scott_P said:

    Also interesting it says "salaries". Graham Norton doesn't get paid a salary by the BBC, but he is one of the best remunerated.

    I think that may be Twitter shorthand

    @BethRigby: EXCL: The govt WILL ask #BBC stars to disclose their earnings -- if they are over £450k: Basically anyone earning more than Lord Hall
    Even then, I can foresee ways in which that can be avoided and see the luuvies end up with a big wedge. Also Graham Norton getting a big load of cash is a tiny drop in their budget, while they go blowing far more money on other nonsense e.g. £1bn on failed IT projects.

    snip

    The BBC has brand recognition and equity unequalled anywhere in broadcasting. If it became a subscription based service, then it would be able to charge what Sky does and insist that its offerings are removed from the Sky platform. It could also compete with ITV and Sky for advertising. And, on top of that, raise money in the capital markets. There is, in fact, every chance that it would become bigger and more dominant than it is at the moment.
    I would be more than happy to test that theory. End the licence fee and make the BBC subscription only, Sky and Liberty can pay them carriage charges or they can take the BT Sport route and force people to sign up manually. I think the BBC could definitely survive and eventually thrive under the HBO model, but I don't think it would happen over night and neither would it be pain free, there is so much fat at the BBC that would need to be trimmed in favour of TV and radio production that thousands would need to be culled, the Salford production centre would be shut down and the jobs moved back to London and many, many millions would refuse to pay the new subscription fees and do without BBC programmes.
    I no longer visit the BBC's website, don't watch their TV bar the odd DP pointed to on here, and don't bother with their radio. I don't feel I'm losing anything. There's so much choice out there. I happily pay for Netflix, Amazon and the Times. I've no problem paying for what I want - I object very deeply to being threatened with imprisonment for not paying the Telly Tax.

    It's like buying a washing machine and forced to buy Daz, when I choose Persil.
    You could choose Sunil instead? :)

    http://img.dooyoo.de/DE_DE/orig/1/4/9/2/2/1492201.jpg
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986

    MaxPB said:

    Scott_P said:

    Also interesting it says "salaries". Graham Norton doesn't get paid a salary by the BBC, but he is one of the best remunerated.

    I think that may be Twitter shorthand

    @BethRigby: EXCL: The govt WILL ask #BBC stars to disclose their earnings -- if they are over £450k: Basically anyone earning more than Lord Hall
    to drive small fish out of business in things that aren't the core of what the BBC should be about.

    The BBC has brand recognition and equity unequalled anywhere in broadcasting. If it became a subscription based service, then it would be able to charge what Sky does and insist that its offerings are removed from the Sky platform. It could also compete with ITV and Sky for advertising. And, on top of that, raise money in the capital markets. There is, in fact, every chance that it would become bigger and more dominant than it is at the moment.
    I would be more than happy to test that theory. End the licence fee and make the BBC and many, many millions would refuse to pay the new subscription fees and do without BBC programmes.

    I disagree. I think that the increased subscription fee would balance the drop off in subscribers. The BBC's programming is popular and most people would pay to retain access to it. The Sky platform would also become a lot less attractive as it would no longer include any BBC offerings. I imagine that there would be job losses, but what can you do? These things happen. But what government is going to legislate to make watching TV more expensive?

    They wouldn't. Grant a two-year Charter to cover the conversion period, then guarantee the subscription amount until 2021. After that, let it float freely. The govt would say the fee isn't their decision any more.

    One option - as regards ownership - would be to mutualise the Beeb: make it owned by the subscribers. That way, they'd elect the directors and would have even less cause to blame the government.

    That's not just going to happen though, is it? There will be debate, there will be votes and the public will be told how it will all end up. The government may decide that it is worth taking the hit to do, but I am not sure that they will want to spend political capital in that way.

  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,302
    edited May 2016



    I disagree. I think that the increased subscription fee would balance the drop off in subscribers. The BBC's programming is popular and most people would pay to retain access to it. The Sky platform would also become a lot less attractive as it would no longer include any BBC offerings. I imagine that there would be job losses, but what can you do? These things happen. But what government is going to legislate to make watching TV more expensive?

    You are thinking about this way too much in regards of today, rather than 5-10 years down the line. This idea of these platforms where one can only access it via an aerial or a satellite dish is going to be obsolete.

    All the content providers are too over protective of their material, desperately trying to ring fence them on different platforms and different regions. In music, that has basically been blow out of the water. If you aren't on Spotify you are either one of probably 20 artists big enough to be able to get away with that or a moron (and even if you are the former you are probably still the later).

    I am looking at the BBC brand. Name recognition is at least half the battle, whatever platforms emerge over the coming years. The BBC has huge - unmatched - global brand equity. The opportunities that will create are immense.

    Don't disagree with that.

    Hence why I would have in this consultation a move towards the future, rather than stick with the outdated model (and one which is starting to fail, let alone 5+ years down the line).

    I am not sure where why you are so convinced the resultant fee would have to be twice the current amount, when Sky is already coming under a huge amount of competition from lower cost alternatives that offer huge amounts of content at sub £10 a month.

    One could argue that a free BBC could do as Netflix as doing an exploit the global markets properly. One problem BBC would have on that front, iPlayer technology is a bag of spanners. Amazon / Netflix is leagues ahead of it.
  • Options
    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Logical song...The BBC is definitely in need of reform..or it will rapidly become broken..I work for it..
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @DominicWaghorn: Me: is Nigeria corrupt?
    President Buhari: yes
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,616
    TV Licence = TV Poll Tax!
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,451

    MaxPB said:

    Scott_P said:



    I think that may be Twitter shorthand

    @BethRigby: EXCL: The govt WILL ask #BBC stars to disclose their earnings -- if they are over £450k: Basically anyone earning more than Lord Hall

    to drive small fish out of business in things that aren't the core of what the BBC should be about.

    The BBC has brand recognition and equity unequalled anywhere in broadcasting. If it became a subscription based service, then it would be able to charge what Sky does and insist that its offerings are removed from the Sky platform. It could also compete with ITV and Sky for advertising. And, on top of that, raise money in the capital markets. There is, in fact, every chance that it would become bigger and more dominant than it is at the moment.
    I would be more than happy to test that theory. End the licence fee and make the BBC and many, many millions would refuse to pay the new subscription fees and do without BBC programmes.

    I disagree. I think that the increased subscription fee would balance the drop off in subscribers. The BBC's programming is popular and most people would pay to retain access to it. The Sky platform would also become a lot less attractive as it would no longer include any BBC offerings. I imagine that there would be job losses, but what can you do? These things happen. But what government is going to legislate to make watching TV more expensive?

    They wouldn't. Grant a two-year Charter to cover the conversion period, then guarantee the subscription amount until 2021. After that, let it float freely. The govt would say the fee isn't their decision any more.

    One option - as regards ownership - would be to mutualise the Beeb: make it owned by the subscribers. That way, they'd elect the directors and would have even less cause to blame the government.

    That's not just going to happen though, is it? There will be debate, there will be votes and the public will be told how it will all end up. The government may decide that it is worth taking the hit to do, but I am not sure that they will want to spend political capital in that way.

    Debates and votes on the future, certainly, but I think a govt that guaranteed that the fee wouldn't rise more than, say, RPI until 2021 would suffer little backlash from any subsequent increases. Probably more from an original decision to de-Charter it in the first place, irrespective of how it was done.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,616
    edited May 2016
    Scott_P said:

    @DominicWaghorn: Me: is Nigeria corrupt?
    President Buhari: yes

    136th out of 177 nations in the Corruption Perceptions Index, about 30 places above Afghanistan.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,028
    Good afternoon, everyone.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,919
    So in Wales the Lib Dems have the power - go Queenmaker Kirsty !!!
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,451

    Scott_P said:

    @PaulBrandITV: Looks like Tories *could* back @LeanneWood to become First Minister of Wales in Assembly vote, to block Carwyn Jones https://t.co/tGEnITYis9

    She'd be daft to take it with Labour holding very nearly half the AMs.


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-wales-politics-36257904


    The vote for First Minister was tied 29-29, and the Presiding Officer says plenary is postponed.

    So Mr Jones fails to be elected first minister, but will continue to act as FM while he seeks allies.

    The Conservatives and UKIP supported moves by Plaid Cymru to give the job to Plaid leader Leanne Wood instead
    So the Lib Dems hold the future of Wales in her hands?
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Scott_P said:

    MaxPB said:

    He will reshuffle to a unity Cabinet, Osborne, Javid and possibly Hammond will make way for the Leave big guns.

    Can someone reconcile for me

    1. Cameron will promote Leavers in a reshuffle
    2. Cameron will be gone 24 hours after the vote

    ?
    No. But different people have different views. We're not all automota
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Walesonline reports that JOnes would have lost the vote if Kirsty Williams of the lib dems had not voted for him..
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,986

    MaxPB said:

    Scott_P said:



    I think that may be Twitter shorthand

    @BethRigby: EXCL: The govt WILL ask #BBC stars to disclose their earnings -- if they are over £450k: Basically anyone earning more than Lord Hall

    to drive small fish out of business in things that aren't the core of what the BBC should be about.

    The BBC has raise money in the capital markets. There is, in fact, every chance that it would become bigger and more dominant than it is at the moment.
    I would be more than happy to test that theory. End the licence fee and make the BBC and many, many millions would refuse to pay the new subscription fees and do without BBC programmes.

    I disagree. I think that the increased subscription fee would balance the drop off in subscribers. The BBC's programming is popular and most people would pay to retain access to it. The Sky platform would also become a lot less attractive as it would no longer include any BBC offerings. I imagine that there would be job losses, but what can you do? These things happen. But what government is going to legislate to make watching TV more expensive?

    They wouldn't. Grant a two-year Charter to cover the conversion period, then guarantee the subscription amount until 2021. After that, let it float freely. The govt would say the fee isn't their decision any more.

    One option - as regards ownership - would be to mutualise the Beeb: make it owned by the subscribers. That way, they'd elect the directors and would have even less cause to blame the government.

    That's not just going to happen though, is it? There will be debate, there will be votes and the public will be told how it will all end up. The government may decide that it is worth taking the hit to do, but I am not sure that they will want to spend political capital in that way.

    Debates and votes on the future, certainly, but I think a govt that guaranteed that the fee wouldn't rise more than, say, RPI until 2021 would suffer little backlash from any subsequent increases. Probably more from an original decision to de-Charter it in the first place, irrespective of how it was done.

    As with so much (education, the NHS, constitutional reform, pensions, etc), this is a long-term issue that needs a level of cross-party consensus which our political system is not designed to deliver.

  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    taffys said:

    Walesonline reports that JOnes would have lost the vote if Kirsty Williams of the lib dems had not voted for him..

    Would 28 v 30 (out of 60) have carried it for Wood?
  • Options
    murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,045
    Usual suspects bashing one of our greatest and loved institutions, the BBC. What is it with the right wing fruitcakes and the BBC?
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,451

    MaxPB said:

    Scott_P said:

    Also interesting it says "salaries". Graham Norton doesn't get paid a salary by the BBC, but he is one of the best remunerated.

    I think that may be Twitter shorthand

    @BethRigby: EXCL: The govt WILL ask #BBC stars to disclose their earnings -- if they are over £450k: Basically anyone earning more than Lord Hall
    to drive small fish out of business in things that aren't the core of what the BBC should be about.

    The BBC has brand recognition and equity unequalled anywhere in broadcasting. If it became a subscription based service, then it would be able to charge what Sky does and insist that its offerings are removed from the Sky platform. It could also compete with ITV and Sky for advertising. And, on top of that, raise money in the capital markets. There is, in fact, every chance that it would become bigger and more dominant than it is at the moment.
    I would be more than happy to test that theory. End the licence fee and make the BBC subscription only, Sky and Liberty can pay them carriage charges or they can take the BT Sport route and force people to sign up manually. I think the BBC could definitely survive and eventually thrive under the HBO model, but I don't think it would happen over night and neither would it be pain free, there is so much fat at the BBC that would need to be trimmed in favour of TV and radio production that thousands would need to be culled, the Salford production centre would be shut down and the jobs moved back to London and many, many millions would refuse to pay the new subscription fees and do without BBC programmes.

    I disagree. I think that the increased subscription fee would balance the drop off in subscribers. The BBC's programming is popular and most people would pay to retain access to it. The Sky platform would also become a lot less attractive as it would no longer include any BBC offerings. I imagine that there would be job losses, but what can you do? These things happen. But what government is going to legislate to make watching TV more expensive?

    The BBC isn't broken, don't fix it. Whittingdale won't last if he keeps attacking the BBC.
    The licence fee was an eminently sensible system in 1920s, when it was the only provider. It was reasonable in the 1970s in the duopoly. But in a mass-provider, mass-media environment, imposing a poll tax on (near enough) everyone is neither equitable nor fair, nor is it just to the Beeb, imposing restrictions on it that its competitors can avoid.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,220
    stodge said:

    So in Wales the Lib Dems have the power - go Queenmaker Kirsty !!!

    Surely she'll go with the sisterhood?
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    edited May 2016

    MaxPB said:

    Scott_P said:

    Also interesting it says "salaries". Graham Norton doesn't get paid a salary by the BBC, but he is one of the best remunerated.

    [...]

    The BBC has brand recognition and equity unequalled anywhere in broadcasting. If it became a subscription based service, then it would be able to charge what Sky does and insist that its offerings are removed from the Sky platform. It could also compete with ITV and Sky for advertising. And, on top of that, raise money in the capital markets. There is, in fact, every chance that it would become bigger and more dominant than it is at the moment.
    I would be more than happy to test that theory. End the licence fee and make the BBC subscription only, Sky and Liberty can pay them carriage charges or they can take the BT Sport route and force people to sign up manually. I think the BBC could definitely survive and eventually thrive under the HBO model, but I don't think it would happen over night and neither would it be pain free, there is so much fat at the BBC that would need to be trimmed in favour of TV and radio production that thousands would need to be culled, the Salford production centre would be shut down and the jobs moved back to London and many, many millions would refuse to pay the new subscription fees and do without BBC programmes.

    I disagree. I think that the increased subscription fee would balance the drop off in subscribers. The BBC's programming is popular and most people would pay to retain access to it. The Sky platform would also become a lot less attractive as it would no longer include any BBC offerings. I imagine that there would be job losses, but what can you do? These things happen. But what government is going to legislate to make watching TV more expensive?

    The BBC isn't broken, don't fix it. Whittingdale won't last if he keeps attacking the BBC.
    The licence fee was an eminently sensible system in 1920s, when it was the only provider. It was reasonable in the 1970s in the duopoly. But in a mass-provider, mass-media environment, imposing a poll tax on (near enough) everyone is neither equitable nor fair, nor is it just to the Beeb, imposing restrictions on it that its competitors can avoid.
    We have two discussions going on:

    Should the BBC receive public funding?
    If so, how?

    My view is that the answers are "yes" and "out of the general taxation".
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Should the Lib Dems throw in their lot with Plaid Cymru, the Conservatives and UKIP, North Devon have a handy flag suitable for this unlikely coalition:

    https://britishcountyflags.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/insert-image-17-north-flag.jpg
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753

    taffys said:

    Walesonline reports that JOnes would have lost the vote if Kirsty Williams of the lib dems had not voted for him..

    Would 28 v 30 (out of 60) have carried it for Wood?
    Dunno, but Plaid/UKIP/tory coalition....??? surely not.
  • Options
    Innocent_AbroadInnocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294

    MaxPB said:

    Scott_P said:

    Also interesting it says "salaries". Graham Norton doesn't get paid a salary by the BBC, but he is one of the best remunerated.

    [...]

    The BBC has brand recognition and equity unequalled anywhere in broadcasting. If it became a subscription based service, then it would be able to charge what Sky does and insist that its offerings are removed from the Sky platform. It could also compete with ITV and Sky for advertising. And, on top of that, raise money in the capital markets. There is, in fact, every chance that it would become bigger and more dominant than it is at the moment.
    I would be more than happy to test that theory. End the licence fee and make the BBC subscription only, Sky and Liberty can pay them do without BBC programmes.

    I disagree. I think that the increased subscription fee would balance the drop off in subscribers. The BBC's programming is popular and most people would pay to retain access to it. The Sky platform would also become a lot less attractive as it would no longer include any BBC offerings. I imagine that there would be job losses, but what can you do? These things happen. But what government is going to legislate to make watching TV more expensive?

    The BBC isn't broken, don't fix it. Whittingdale won't last if he keeps attacking the BBC.
    The licence fee was an eminently sensible system in 1920s, when it was the only provider. It was reasonable in the 1970s in the duopoly. But in a mass-provider, mass-media environment, imposing a poll tax on (near enough) everyone is neither equitable nor fair, nor is it just to the Beeb, imposing restrictions on it that its competitors can avoid.
    We have two discussions going on:

    Should the BBC receive public funding?
    If so, how?

    My view is that the answers are "yes" and "out of the general taxation".
    I suspect the Government is looking for a funding mechanism which will allow it to abolish the requirement for political impartiality.

  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    A subscription service may work for television how would it work for radio?
  • Options
    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited May 2016
    Murali S...So anyone who dares to criticise the BBC is automatically a Right wing nut job..got some info for you..an awful lot of them are employed there...and they are crying out for reform
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,027
    edited May 2016

    Should the Lib Dems throw in their lot with Plaid Cymru, the Conservatives and UKIP, North Devon have a handy flag suitable for this unlikely coalition:

    https://britishcountyflags.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/insert-image-17-north-flag.jpg

    I never saw that monstrosity once whilst I was in North Devon last year !

    A suitable flag for a Hamilton-Lib Dem-Plaid-Tory coalition though. A mess !
  • Options
    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    TV Licence = TV Poll Tax!

    Does anyone still pay it?
  • Options
    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,048
    Charles said:

    Scott_P said:

    MaxPB said:

    He will reshuffle to a unity Cabinet, Osborne, Javid and possibly Hammond will make way for the Leave big guns.

    Can someone reconcile for me

    1. Cameron will promote Leavers in a reshuffle
    2. Cameron will be gone 24 hours after the vote

    ?
    No. But different people have different views. We're not all automota
    Scott is.
This discussion has been closed.