Hamilton being parachuted into Wales is unacceptable and to be leader of UKIP beggars belief
Not sour grapes. I would be content for a Welsh Ukipper who has devoted his time to Wales to be elected - just not Hamilton or Reckless
Those blessed electors in Wales not voting for the right person again Mr NorthWales? What is democracy coming to?
As an aside, no one voted for Hamilton or Reckless. The Additional Members were by closed list. People voted for the party. It makes the imposition of Hamilton and Reckless even more undemocratic.
Yes, the single transferable vote is better in that respect. Nevertheless, if Reckless and Hamilton were that objectionable then surely it would harmed the Ukip vote.
Since their names were not even on the ballot paper I wonder how many people knew they were top of the UKIP lists?
Mr. Tyndall, if you don't like the rules then complain about them, but please don't whinge about people who were elected under them and call their election undemocratic.
You are right I don't like the rules and they are undemocratic. Next point?
Then the names of the people elected under this system do not matter. This time it was Reckless and Hamilton next time it might be 617 Jones and 639 Jones, two men, who aside from military service, have never left Brecon in their lives. The end result would still be as unpalatable, wouldn't it?
Yes entirely. In this instance it is not just that the system is so bad it can be played in this way, it is also the fact that UKIP - who claim to be different to the other parties - play it in just the same way. Of course I am not surprised about that, not with Farage in charge, but it is still something that needs to be attacked.
I remain puzzled as to why so many of the PB membership seem to want Trump to become the next President.
Yes, I can understand anyone having a nice betting slip with say 50/1 Trump having a vested interest but I simply don't get the anti-Clinton theme.
Is it because she dared to be nice to David Miliband or because it's almost instinctive for some to support the "non-Left" candidate irrespective of his or her qualities ?
What were they smoking at the agency that whipped these "former NATO secretaries-general" into some EU propaganda action? I wonder whether they'll have any squaddies in their focus groups to tell them how this has played?
I remain puzzled as to why so many of the PB membership seem to want Trump to become the next President.
Yes, I can understand anyone having a nice betting slip with say 50/1 Trump having a vested interest but I simply don't get the anti-Clinton theme.
Is it because she dared to be nice to David Miliband or because it's almost instinctive for some to support the "non-Left" candidate irrespective of his or her qualities ?
Maybe it's because if she wins they'll lose money?
In any civilised country, Trump's run would have ended as soon as he said in public that his daughter had a great figure and that if she weren't his daughter he'd be "dating" her:
Yes entirely. In this instance it is not just that the system is so bad it can be played in this way, it is also the fact that UKIP - who claim to be different to the other parties - play it in just the same way. Of course I am not surprised about that, not with Farage in charge, but it is still something that needs to be attacked.
Forgive me, Mr. Tyndall, but it seems to me that your real beef is with UKIP under Farage and not with the system. A system that has been in place for a good few years now and has been "played", as you put it, by all parties since its introduction.
Perhaps I am wrong, I frequently am. In which case I am sure you and Big G will be able to point me at posts you have made complaining about the system before it delivered these results.
You are unfortunately wrong on this.
Look at any thread we have had on here on PR going back for years. I have long advocated removing the power of the whips as a means of removing the power of parties and I consider any form of PR to be completely undemocratic. After the EU it is my favourite political hobby horse. For me the only properly democratic system is FPTP with the power of the parties massively curtailed.
But in addition I object to a party which claims to be different acting in the same way as all the others. Whether that is under Farage or anyone else doesn't matter.
I remain puzzled as to why so many of the PB membership seem to want Trump to become the next President.
Yes, I can understand anyone having a nice betting slip with say 50/1 Trump having a vested interest but I simply don't get the anti-Clinton theme.
Is it because she dared to be nice to David Miliband or because it's almost instinctive for some to support the "non-Left" candidate irrespective of his or her qualities ?
Trump is also Strong on Muslims, which is important around here.
I remain puzzled as to why so many of the PB membership seem to want Trump to become the next President.
Yes, I can understand anyone having a nice betting slip with say 50/1 Trump having a vested interest but I simply don't get the anti-Clinton theme.
Is it because she dared to be nice to David Miliband or because it's almost instinctive for some to support the "non-Left" candidate irrespective of his or her qualities ?
At least half of PB are rightwing Leave backers who would happily have Farage as PM, is it that surprising they like Trump, after all Trump backs Brexit, unlike Obama
Ursula von der Leyen, German Defense Minister, would argue otherwise. She has claimed that the merger of Dutch and German armed forces is the first step in the creation of an EU army. I thought the "dangerous fantasy" meme had been completely debunked.
Labour looks to have ticked all the boxes if it selects Dr Rosena Allin-Khan for Sadiq's replacement.She's born and bred in Tooting,a proper local lass.She's good for diversity and gender equality.She's a local councillor whose has risen to Dep Leader and a doctor in her local A&E.That should do it.BTW she also seems drop-dead gorgeous.
Yes entirely. In this instance it is not just that the system is so bad it can be played in this way, it is also the fact that UKIP - who claim to be different to the other parties - play it in just the same way. Of course I am not surprised about that, not with Farage in charge, but it is still something that needs to be attacked.
Forgive me, Mr. Tyndall, but it seems to me that your real beef is with UKIP under Farage and not with the system. A system that has been in place for a good few years now and has been "played", as you put it, by all parties since its introduction.
Perhaps I am wrong, I frequently am. In which case I am sure you and Big G will be able to point me at posts you have made complaining about the system before it delivered these results.
You are unfortunately wrong on this.
Look at any thread we have had on here on PR going back for years. I have long advocated removing the power of the whips as a means of removing the power of parties and I consider any form of PR to be completely undemocratic. After the EU it is my favourite political hobby horse. For me the only properly democratic system is FPTP with the power of the parties massively curtailed.
But in addition I object to a party which claims to be different acting in the same way as all the others. Whether that is under Farage or anyone else doesn't matter.
I remain puzzled as to why so many of the PB membership seem to want Trump to become the next President.
Yes, I can understand anyone having a nice betting slip with say 50/1 Trump having a vested interest but I simply don't get the anti-Clinton theme.
Is it because she dared to be nice to David Miliband or because it's almost instinctive for some to support the "non-Left" candidate irrespective of his or her qualities ?
I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but to me, neither of the two front-runners seems to be good POTUS material.
Maybe Ms Clinton would be better than Mr Trump, but it saddens me that the first woman POTUS should be Ms Clinton. It is a very great milestone, no wonder that Ms Clinton has long coveted the place in history it will earn her.
I suggest he talk to Jean-Claude Juncker, Angela Merkel and much of the European Parliament who seem to be forging ahead with plans for an EU army in spite of what the good General might think.
I remain puzzled as to why so many of the PB membership seem to want Trump to become the next President.
Yes, I can understand anyone having a nice betting slip with say 50/1 Trump having a vested interest but I simply don't get the anti-Clinton theme.
Is it because she dared to be nice to David Miliband or because it's almost instinctive for some to support the "non-Left" candidate irrespective of his or her qualities ?
At least half of PB are rightwing Leave backers who would happily have Farage as PM, is it that surprising they like Trump, after all Trump backs Brexit, unlike Obama
Um no.
I suspect that the large majority of Leave supporters on PB would definitely not want Farage as PM. That includes a number of declared UKIP members on here.
For the record I don't want either Clinton or Trump for president but would wake up slightly less worried the morning after a Clinton victory. As far as I am concerned she is merely corrupt and elitist, not outright dangerous like Trump.
I remain puzzled as to why so many of the PB membership seem to want Trump to become the next President.
Yes, I can understand anyone having a nice betting slip with say 50/1 Trump having a vested interest but I simply don't get the anti-Clinton theme.
Is it because she dared to be nice to David Miliband or because it's almost instinctive for some to support the "non-Left" candidate irrespective of his or her qualities ?
At least half of PB are rightwing Leave backers who would happily have Farage as PM, is it that surprising they like Trump, after all Trump backs Brexit, unlike Obama
I remain puzzled as to why so many of the PB membership seem to want Trump to become the next President.
Yes, I can understand anyone having a nice betting slip with say 50/1 Trump having a vested interest but I simply don't get the anti-Clinton theme.
Is it because she dared to be nice to David Miliband or because it's almost instinctive for some to support the "non-Left" candidate irrespective of his or her qualities ?
At least half of PB are rightwing Leave backers who would happily have Farage as PM, is it that surprising they like Trump, after all Trump backs Brexit, unlike Obama
Um no.
I suspect that the large majority of Leave supporters on PB would definitely not want Farage as PM. That includes a number of declared UKIP members on here.
For the record I don't want either Clinton or Trump for president but would wake up slightly less worried the morning after a Clinton victory. As far as I am concerned she is merely corrupt and elitist, not outright dangerous like Trump.
You are perhaps an exception, though the fact you are not fanatically anti Trump still puts you well to the right of the median British voter but there is a clear correlation between support for Leave and support for Trump
I remain puzzled as to why so many of the PB membership seem to want Trump to become the next President.
Yes, I can understand anyone having a nice betting slip with say 50/1 Trump having a vested interest but I simply don't get the anti-Clinton theme.
Is it because she dared to be nice to David Miliband or because it's almost instinctive for some to support the "non-Left" candidate irrespective of his or her qualities ?
At least half of PB are rightwing Leave backers who would happily have Farage as PM, is it that surprising they like Trump, after all Trump backs Brexit, unlike Obama
I remain puzzled as to why so many of the PB membership seem to want Trump to become the next President.
Yes, I can understand anyone having a nice betting slip with say 50/1 Trump having a vested interest but I simply don't get the anti-Clinton theme.
Is it because she dared to be nice to David Miliband or because it's almost instinctive for some to support the "non-Left" candidate irrespective of his or her qualities ?
At least half of PB are rightwing Leave backers who would happily have Farage as PM, is it that surprising they like Trump, after all Trump backs Brexit, unlike Obama
Um no.
I suspect that the large majority of Leave supporters on PB would definitely not want Farage as PM. That includes a number of declared UKIP members on here.
For the record I don't want either Clinton or Trump for president but would wake up slightly less worried the morning after a Clinton victory. As far as I am concerned she is merely corrupt and elitist, not outright dangerous like Trump.
You are perhaps an exception, though the fact you are not fanatically anti Trump still puts you well to the right of the median British voter but there is a clear correlation between support for Leave and support for Trump
Sorry I wasn't clear. It is a sign of how fanatically anti-Trump I am that I would even consider being grateful for a Clinton victory. To my mind she epitomises everything that is wrong in US politics and only someone as frightening as Trump could have made me wish for her to win.
I remain puzzled as to why so many of the PB membership seem to want Trump to become the next President.
Yes, I can understand anyone having a nice betting slip with say 50/1 Trump having a vested interest but I simply don't get the anti-Clinton theme.
Is it because she dared to be nice to David Miliband or because it's almost instinctive for some to support the "non-Left" candidate irrespective of his or her qualities ?
At least half of PB are rightwing Leave backers who would happily have Farage as PM, is it that surprising they like Trump, after all Trump backs Brexit, unlike Obama
Um no.
I suspect that the large majority of Leave supporters on PB would definitely not want Farage as PM. That includes a number of declared UKIP members on here.
For the record I don't want either Clinton or Trump for president but would wake up slightly less worried the morning after a Clinton victory. As far as I am concerned she is merely corrupt and elitist, not outright dangerous like Trump.
You are perhaps an exception, though the fact you are not fanatically anti Trump still puts you well to the right of the median British voter but there is a clear correlation between support for Leave and support for Trump
Sorry I wasn't clear. It is a sign of how fanatically anti-Trump I am that I would even consider being grateful for a Clinton victory. To my mind she epitomises everything that is wrong in US politics and only someone as frightening as Trump could have made me wish for her to win.
You said 'For the record I don't want either Clinton or Trump for president but would wake up slightly less worried the morning after a Clinton victory.' A clear majority of British voters give Hillary a net favourable rating and have no hesitation backing her against Trump. 33% think she would be a good president, only 15% bad, 75% think Trump would be a bad president https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/fq13shzmxk/Eurotrack_March_Trackers_US_W.pdf
Comments
Yes, I can understand anyone having a nice betting slip with say 50/1 Trump having a vested interest but I simply don't get the anti-Clinton theme.
Is it because she dared to be nice to David Miliband or because it's almost instinctive for some to support the "non-Left" candidate irrespective of his or her qualities ?
In any civilised country, Trump's run would have ended as soon as he said in public that his daughter had a great figure and that if she weren't his daughter he'd be "dating" her:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diMp241gAcw
Look at any thread we have had on here on PR going back for years. I have long advocated removing the power of the whips as a means of removing the power of parties and I consider any form of PR to be completely undemocratic. After the EU it is my favourite political hobby horse. For me the only properly democratic system is FPTP with the power of the parties massively curtailed.
But in addition I object to a party which claims to be different acting in the same way as all the others. Whether that is under Farage or anyone else doesn't matter.
Maybe Ms Clinton would be better than Mr Trump, but it saddens me that the first woman POTUS should be Ms Clinton. It is a very great milestone, no wonder that Ms Clinton has long coveted the place in history it will earn her.
I suspect that the large majority of Leave supporters on PB would definitely not want Farage as PM. That includes a number of declared UKIP members on here.
For the record I don't want either Clinton or Trump for president but would wake up slightly less worried the morning after a Clinton victory. As far as I am concerned she is merely corrupt and elitist, not outright dangerous like Trump.
new thread
https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/fq13shzmxk/Eurotrack_March_Trackers_US_W.pdf