Meeks has come to the conclusion, belatedly, that Cameron has lost it. Lost his cool, lost his argument, lost his mind, and maybe has lost some of the Remain vote, and as a consequence will lose the Referendum.
You could be talking about Meeks himself.
The thread header is interesting but it reeks of "I'm impartial and objective, not like those - insert abuse - Leavers."
The change of tack is revealing, I wonder if Remain will become more conciliatory after RACIST!!! and WAR!!!! fell flat.
Tom Harris I don’t believe that someone as decent and intelligent as AJ would use such abusive language unless he was seriously worried about losing.
Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak IDS tells me Remain are 'resorting to name calling' 'means they are losing the argument' after Alan Johnson said Outers held 'extreme' views
Is there something about REMAIN that induces this abusive language in some of their supporters?
Who to believe on wages if we Brexit? Lord Rose = Wages up NIESR = Wages down. AFAIK NIESR have a worse record in economic forecasting, because Lord Rose has not done many.
Tom Harris I don’t believe that someone as decent and intelligent as AJ would use such abusive language unless he was seriously worried about losing.
Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak IDS tells me Remain are 'resorting to name calling' 'means they are losing the argument' after Alan Johnson said Outers held 'extreme' views
Is there something about REMAIN that induces this abusive language in some of their supporters?
Yep, as I said the other day, we all call names when losing an argument, its human nature.
Wanna deal with the US? Then open up the health-care sector to US suppliers.
And why not, provided that it is reciprocal? Their health sector is considerably larger (10x: GDP is 5x, % of GDP spent on health is 2x) and more inefficient. UK providers should make a killing.
GSK.l should indeed do well if the US market is properly opened up...
About 40% of GSK revenues come from the US already, and 50% of AZ
Mr. Betting, there's time to change tack, the problem for Remain, in that sense, is that future comments may be seen through the prism of earlier ones.
Incidentally, it's worth noting the polls are neck-and-neck, so neither side has room for complacency.
Tom Harris I don’t believe that someone as decent and intelligent as AJ would use such abusive language unless he was seriously worried about losing.
Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak IDS tells me Remain are 'resorting to name calling' 'means they are losing the argument' after Alan Johnson said Outers held 'extreme' views
Is there something about REMAIN that induces this abusive language in some of their supporters?
Yep, as I said the other day, we all call names when losing an argument, its human nature.
Is that why you told Mr Meeks he had his head up his arse this morning?
Wanna deal with the US? Then open up the health-care sector to US suppliers.
And why not, provided that it is reciprocal? Their health sector is considerably larger (10x: GDP is 5x, % of GDP spent on health is 2x) and more inefficient. UK providers should make a killing.
GSK.l should indeed do well if the US market is properly opened up...
About 40% of GSK revenues come from the US already, and 50% of AZ
I'd have thought TTIP would still benefit them, mind... ?
Tom Harris I don’t believe that someone as decent and intelligent as AJ would use such abusive language unless he was seriously worried about losing.
Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak IDS tells me Remain are 'resorting to name calling' 'means they are losing the argument' after Alan Johnson said Outers held 'extreme' views
Is there something about REMAIN that induces this abusive language in some of their supporters?
Yep, as I said the other day, we all call names when losing an argument, its human nature.
Is that why you told Mr Meeks he had his head up his arse this morning?
No that was gratuitous, we weren't arguing at the time. There is a difference in saying things in temper as opposed to poking fun.
Last week when we were arguing he called me an odious cretin.
Tom Harris I don’t believe that someone as decent and intelligent as AJ would use such abusive language unless he was seriously worried about losing.
Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak IDS tells me Remain are 'resorting to name calling' 'means they are losing the argument' after Alan Johnson said Outers held 'extreme' views
Is there something about REMAIN that induces this abusive language in some of their supporters?
Yep, as I said the other day, we all call names when losing an argument, its human nature.
Is that why you told Mr Meeks he had his head up his arse this morning?
I still want to know who the posters are on this site that are being directed and paid by foreign governments. Mr. Meeks told us they exist so presumably he knows their identities, I do wish he would share the information with us.
He did, going by that quote, say "possibly", which with Afghanistan third-worst and the list based on perception it might well be. Nigeria isn't quite that bad but it's still in the worst quintile so hardly something to boast about.
Tom Harris I don’t believe that someone as decent and intelligent as AJ would use such abusive language unless he was seriously worried about losing.
Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak IDS tells me Remain are 'resorting to name calling' 'means they are losing the argument' after Alan Johnson said Outers held 'extreme' views
Is there something about REMAIN that induces this abusive language in some of their supporters?
Yep, as I said the other day, we all call names when losing an argument, its human nature.
Is that why you told Mr Meeks he had his head up his arse this morning?
No that was gratuitous, we weren't arguing at the time. There is a difference in saying things in temper as opposed to poking fun.
Last week when we were arguing he called me an odious cretin.
Tom Harris I don’t believe that someone as decent and intelligent as AJ would use such abusive language unless he was seriously worried about losing.
Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak IDS tells me Remain are 'resorting to name calling' 'means they are losing the argument' after Alan Johnson said Outers held 'extreme' views
Is there something about REMAIN that induces this abusive language in some of their supporters?
Yep, as I said the other day, we all call names when losing an argument, its human nature.
Is that why you told Mr Meeks he had his head up his arse this morning?
I still want to know who the posters are on this site that are being directed and paid by foreign governments. Mr. Meeks told us they exist so presumably he knows their identities, I do wish he would share the information with us.
I'd like to know how you get the job, I'm happy to be paid by anybody to post bollox on the internet, at the moment we all do it for free.
Tom Harris I don’t believe that someone as decent and intelligent as AJ would use such abusive language unless he was seriously worried about losing.
Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak IDS tells me Remain are 'resorting to name calling' 'means they are losing the argument' after Alan Johnson said Outers held 'extreme' views
Is there something about REMAIN that induces this abusive language in some of their supporters?
Yep, as I said the other day, we all call names when losing an argument, its human nature.
Is that why you told Mr Meeks he had his head up his arse this morning?
No that was gratuitous, we weren't arguing at the time. There is a difference in saying things in temper as opposed to poking fun.
Last week when we were arguing he called me an odious cretin.
Good piece of analysis, Mr Meeks. It confirms my view that Cameron is a lousy negotiator and, at least as far as the EU is concerned, strategist. Being tone-deaf to the negotiating environment and the interests/values of the other parties is no way to maximize one's own outcome.
Yep ..... that's why I'm voting LEAVE. Not only did Cameron get a lousy rushed deal (if indeed one can call it a deal, given the EU's wriggle room), but he then has the temerity to try to kid us that it's a great deal, effectively treating us like fools. Well, sorry, but he's been caught out and it will finish him.
I clearly agree with your view that Dave had no hope of getting a deal negotiated. I clearly differ from you enormously in thinking the right thing to do now is commit to being part of a United States of Europe.
Vote Leave.
Well, I don't think that the right thing to do is commit to being part of a United States of Europe. But it is certainly true that some people - over-represented here - had absurdly over-optimistic expectations of the renegotiation. There was never the slightest possibility of the EU abandoning central principles such as freedom of movement.
The same people tend to have absurdly over-optimistic views on what we could get in a negotiation with our EU friends post-Brexit, and on what we could get in free trade agreements with other countries. That's why they were so angry at Obama pointing out some basic home truths.
Absolutely agree that anything on free movement was unachievable which is why it was maddening to see Dave waste his time on such stupidity, I mean who really cares if we give £50m per year to parents with children overseas, sure it is irksome, but it really doesn't matter that much. As I said before the migrant benefits are something that need to be addressed at Westminster by making 1-2 years worth of contributions mandatory in order to receive any kind of benefits (unemployment, housing, child and any kind of tax credit) for all people, but the government has ducked making the hard decisions and just used the EU as a scapegoat for their weakness on the issue of benefits.
Getting real protection for the City, the same opt-out of ever closer union, and a veto on military co-operation using EU structures and having it all bound by treaty obligations was all well within the realms of possibility. It would have been enough to win my vote given that everything else can be solved at Westminster.
If the City needed protection, apart from in a military sense, then it wouldn't be the City.
• A vote to leave the EU would represent a significant shock to the UK economy • In the short run, our analysis suggests it would lower GDP growth to 1.9 per cent in 2017, compared with a growth rate of 2.7 per cent in a world in which the UK voted to remain. • In the longer run, our analysis suggests that it would lower GDP by between 1.5 per cent and 7.8 per cent in 2030, also compared with a world in which the UK voted to remain. • Sterling would also depreciate in the longer-run, to close to parity with the euro by 2030. • By 2030, consumption would fall by between 2.4 per cent and 9.2 per cent compared to a world in which the UK remained in the EU. This translates into declines in annual consumption per capita of between £500 and £2,000 (at 2012 prices) by 2030.
Lol. 2.7% growth in 2017? The Euro even exists in 2030? Ridiculous.
Sorry but if I don't say it, it's just going to continue sliding away.
There will be a full site refresh on June 24th...
Either way.
Haha! But amongst several things it needs: 1. An editor. Someone ruthless with a good grasp of English who will cut op ed threads down to the 20% of useful words that currently inhabit them. The verbosity is staggering. 2. Broaden the political appeal instead of this monochromatic and deathly dull repetition 3. Humour. Politics can be both dull and funny. This site seems to have missed the latter.
My rather a-political daughter, who surely will never vote leave, today berated Cameron for insulting the intelligence of voters. She asked how was it credible that the man who in September said he "might" argue for LEAVE was now arguing that BREXIT could lead to War in Europe. Her husband, apparently, agrees with her.
"Police who staged a mock attack featuring a bomber shouting "Allahu Akbar" have been forced to apologise for racial stereotyping."
Islam's not a race. And lots of terrorism does involve religious lunatics.
*sighs*
I long for the day when the senior police officer responds to something like this by telling the complainants not to be so stupid, that they work on the basis of sensible risk assessment and that any such assessment at the moment would show that there is a high risk from suicide bombers shouting just this in a place crowded with civilians such as, ooh, I don't know, an airport or a football stadium or a train.
Stereotypes endure because there is a grain of truth in them.
When will the police learn to grow a pair? Sigh......
My rather a-political daughter, who surely will never vote leave, today berated Cameron for insulting the intelligence of voters. She asked how was it credible that the man who in September said he "might" argue for LEAVE was now arguing that BREXIT could lead to War in Europe. Her husband, apparently, agrees with her.
I know a lot of people who agree with her.
I'm wondering if the best thing that happened to Leave was Lynton Crosby's 2015 GE win. It has lulled an already arrogant Cameron Cabal into thinking he walks on water. They thought they could simply transpose the negative GE campaign to the EU Ref. As we've seen with Zac it can disastrously backfire and it seems to be here.
Negative campaigning may work in the US. It rarely does this side of the pond.
So when you told me to "ffs shut up" yesterday does that mean you were on the wrong side of the argument?
No, it meant I'm sick of idiots playing the race card. I'm happy to argue with you about racism if you like.
Sooooo....if you call people names it means you're winning the argument. But not neccessarily vice versa......
My point yesterday was very simple.....some people wouldn't support Ukip if they were aligned with the BNP....would you still vote for them in that scenario?
Please answer without mentioning the Labour party or anti semitism as neither are remotely relevant. Thankyou
"Police who staged a mock attack featuring a bomber shouting "Allahu Akbar" have been forced to apologise for racial stereotyping."
Islam's not a race. And lots of terrorism does involve religious lunatics.
*sighs*
I long for the day when the senior police officer responds to something like this by telling the complainants not to be so stupid, that they work on the basis of sensible risk assessment and that any such assessment at the moment would show that there is a high risk from suicide bombers shouting just this in a place crowded with civilians such as, ooh, I don't know, an airport or a football stadium or a train.
Stereotypes endure because there is a grain of truth in them.
When will the police learn to grow a pair? Sigh......
According to Inspector Gadget there is no "official" apology at all, just a tweet from a portfolio-building officer. Dunno if that is right or not.
"Police who staged a mock attack featuring a bomber shouting "Allahu Akbar" have been forced to apologise for racial stereotyping."
Islam's not a race. And lots of terrorism does involve religious lunatics.
*sighs*
I long for the day when the senior police officer responds to something like this by telling the complainants not to be so stupid, that they work on the basis of sensible risk assessment and that any such assessment at the moment would show that there is a high risk from suicide bombers shouting just this in a place crowded with civilians such as, ooh, I don't know, an airport or a football stadium or a train.
Stereotypes endure because there is a grain of truth in them.
When will the police learn to grow a pair? Sigh......
In this case especially...it was a suicide bomber exercise....
@Scanditwitchen: The Swedish Ambassador to the UK talks #eurovision https://t.co/86VLzPQo9q (ps she is awesome - and she loves Eurovision as much as we do!)
So when you told me to "ffs shut up" yesterday does that mean you were on the wrong side of the argument?
No, it meant I'm sick of idiots playing the race card. I'm happy to argue with you about racism if you like.
Sooooo....if you call people names it means you're winning the argument. But not neccessarily vice versa......
My point yesterday was very simple.....some people wouldn't support Ukip if they were aligned with the BNP....would you still vote for them in that scenario?
Please answer without mentioning the Labour party or anti semitism as neither are remotely relevant. Thankyou
I'm so glad you have the authority to decide what is and is not relevant. Things can so confusing without a strong hand to order the rest of us about.
"Police who staged a mock attack featuring a bomber shouting "Allahu Akbar" have been forced to apologise for racial stereotyping."
Islam's not a race. And lots of terrorism does involve religious lunatics.
*sighs*
I long for the day when the senior police officer responds to something like this by telling the complainants not to be so stupid, that they work on the basis of sensible risk assessment and that any such assessment at the moment would show that there is a high risk from suicide bombers shouting just this in a place crowded with civilians such as, ooh, I don't know, an airport or a football stadium or a train.
Stereotypes endure because there is a grain of truth in them.
When will the police learn to grow a pair? Sigh......
It's alright: the next exercise will have the terrorist screaming "Peace be with you".
@Scanditwitchen: The Swedish Ambassador to the UK talks #eurovision https://t.co/86VLzPQo9q (ps she is awesome - and she loves Eurovision as much as we do!)
"Police who staged a mock attack featuring a bomber shouting "Allahu Akbar" have been forced to apologise for racial stereotyping."
Islam's not a race. And lots of terrorism does involve religious lunatics.
*sighs*
I long for the day when the senior police officer responds to something like this by telling the complainants not to be so stupid, that they work on the basis of sensible risk assessment and that any such assessment at the moment would show that there is a high risk from suicide bombers shouting just this in a place crowded with civilians such as, ooh, I don't know, an airport or a football stadium or a train.
Stereotypes endure because there is a grain of truth in them.
When will the police learn to grow a pair? Sigh......
According to Inspector Gadget there is no "official" apology at all, just a tweet from a portfolio-building officer. Dunno if that is right or not.
Indeed, a mealy-mouthed statement from one of the GMP's ACCs. I'll bet the GMP anti-terrorist foot soldiers are all good with it.
My rather a-political daughter, who surely will never vote leave, today berated Cameron for insulting the intelligence of voters. She asked how was it credible that the man who in September said he "might" argue for LEAVE was now arguing that BREXIT could lead to War in Europe. Her husband, apparently, agrees with her.
I know a lot of people who agree with her.
I'm wondering if the best thing that happened to Leave was Lynton Crosby's 2015 GE win. It has lulled an already arrogant Cameron Cabal into thinking he walks on water. They thought they could simply transpose the negative GE campaign to the EU Ref. As we've seen with Zac it can disastrously backfire and it seems to be here.
Negative campaigning may work in the US. It rarely does this side of the pond.
Glad to see you are taking your own advice by injecting some humour into proceedings with the use of the word "cabal". Of course it's a cabal.
BBC presenters can hardly contain their glee at the PM's gaffe and made it their lead story. How truly pathetic. Even though there was a camera and microphone, I thought comments made when the Queen is present are normally private.
Tony Lloyd (Lab PCC) is doing his nut over this, rather than backing the plod. He said this is wrongly stigmatizing Muslims. Because the threat of suicide bombing in the Western World is well known to be equally distributed among different faiths.
If they had been doing a response to an armed robbery I might have to sympathy.
So when you told me to "ffs shut up" yesterday does that mean you were on the wrong side of the argument?
No, it meant I'm sick of idiots playing the race card. I'm happy to argue with you about racism if you like.
Sooooo....if you call people names it means you're winning the argument. But not neccessarily vice versa......
My point yesterday was very simple.....some people wouldn't support Ukip if they were aligned with the BNP....would you still vote for them in that scenario?
Please answer without mentioning the Labour party or anti semitism as neither are remotely relevant. Thankyou
For me (not that you asked) it depends on what you mean by aligned. Formal or informal alliance - no. It would indicate approval by UKIP of racism. Support for UKIP from former or current BNP members? Sure. I don't care what they think. My views are my views. If they want to get on board with some of them, I really couldn't give a toss.
One thinks back to the 2011 looting. Took the police's top brass three days of riots, arson and looting before deciding to actually take necessary measures.
"Police who staged a mock attack featuring a bomber shouting "Allahu Akbar" have been forced to apologise for racial stereotyping."
Islam's not a race. And lots of terrorism does involve religious lunatics.
*sighs*
I long for the day when the senior police officer responds to something like this by telling the complainants not to be so stupid, that they work on the basis of sensible risk assessment and that any such assessment at the moment would show that there is a high risk from suicide bombers shouting just this in a place crowded with civilians such as, ooh, I don't know, an airport or a football stadium or a train.
Stereotypes endure because there is a grain of truth in them.
When will the police learn to grow a pair? Sigh......
Back in the 70s my dad was training for a tour in NI. The army had rebuilt part of Belfast as a training ground in Germany. One part was crowd control with squaddies in mufti playing the part of both the Catholic and Protestant crowds. On one occasion they had an Orange March which had to be martialled. The squaddies really got into their roles and when the Orange March came to a corner they suddenly all turned and held up their right hand which they had painted red.
A genuine riot erupted which no doubt made it a very good training exercise. No doubt in those days we were just a little less sensitive.
One thinks back to the 2011 looting. Took the police's top brass three days of riots, arson and looting before deciding to actually take necessary measures.
They didn't want to be accused of being racist....
BBC presenters can hardly contain their glee at the PM's gaffe and made it their lead story. How truly pathetic. Even though there was a camera and microphone, I thought comments made when the Queen is present are normally private.
Not sure that's a running argument, her husband's gaffes have been news fodder for years !
The Queen of course seems to be a damn sight brighter and more diplomatic than Dave. She is not the story here
BBC presenters can hardly contain their glee at the PM's gaffe and made it their lead story. How truly pathetic. Even though there was a camera and microphone, I thought comments made when the Queen is present are normally private.
To be fair they did say he spoke to truth and that the Country's leaders accept they have a big problem. Also they said that it has highlighted the conference he is hosting in the next few days and his fight against corruption. Indeed the BBC were reasonably balanced and I do not say that about the BBC very often
Tony Lloyd (Lab PCC) is doing his nut over this, rather than backing the plod. He said this is wrongly stigmatizing Muslims. Because the threat of suicide bombing in the Western World is well known to be equally distributed among different faiths.
If they had been doing a response to an armed robbery I might have to sympathy.
I remember a few years ago being in hospital for an extended period and met a guy in a similar position and we got chatting over the course of a number of days. It turned out he worked for a very well known multi-national company with interests in pretty much every country.
So we got chatting about what it was like operating in different parts of the world and he said that the company he worked for had a very strict policy on any sort of back handers, kick backs, favours, etc etc etc i.e. low level corruption....which he then prefaced well except Nigeria, got to be one of the most corrupt places on the planet, there we just have to bribe f##king everybody to get anything done.
Sorry but if I don't say it, it's just going to continue sliding away.
There will be a full site refresh on June 24th...
Either way.
Haha! But amongst several things it needs: 1. An editor. Someone ruthless with a good grasp of English who will cut op ed threads down to the 20% of useful words that currently inhabit them. The verbosity is staggering. 2. Broaden the political appeal instead of this monochromatic and deathly dull repetition 3. Humour. Politics can be both dull and funny. This site seems to have missed the latter.
^^ This is constructive ^^
Mr. Estobar, the site is certainly a very different place from when I started visiting it in 2007. Not many people now talk about betting for a start and it is true that rather too many posters tend to repeat what they have previously said over and over again. Furthermore the tone has changed, some posters have become very rude towards other contributors and even silly in their allegations.
On the bright side, I think there is something in Mr. P's post upthread that the site will refresh on 24th June. Hopefully, that will return the site to some of its old vitality and maybe we will see some of the old faces return, we might even see some good-natured discussions of engineering, trains, history, statistics and cricket mixed in with the political betting stuff.
Failing that my hope is with Mr. Indigo who, I think, is working on a new version of Edmund's widget - then at least we can skip over those posters we find to be offensive/repetitive/annoying.
So when you told me to "ffs shut up" yesterday does that mean you were on the wrong side of the argument?
No, it meant I'm sick of idiots playing the race card. I'm happy to argue with you about racism if you like.
Sooooo....if you call people names it means you're winning the argument. But not neccessarily vice versa......
My point yesterday was very simple.....some people wouldn't support Ukip if they were aligned with the BNP....would you still vote for them in that scenario?
Please answer without mentioning the Labour party or anti semitism as neither are remotely relevant. Thankyou
Why are you persisting with hypothetical, irrelevant arguments? I am a member of Ukip, I signed a form confirming I am not and have never been a member of BNP. For better or worse I have featured in most daily papers and live on radio, I have never been accused of racism.
I appreciate that isn't what you want to hear but if you find anything I have ever said or written that is even vaguely racist I'll make a donation to charity and apologise.
Tony Lloyd (Lab PCC) is doing his nut over this, rather than backing the plod. He said this is wrongly stigmatizing Muslims. Because the threat of suicide bombing in the Western World is well known to be equally distributed among different faiths.
Maybe they should have rotated training with saffron-robed Buddhists chanting "Ommmmmmmm"?
"Police who staged a mock attack featuring a bomber shouting "Allahu Akbar" have been forced to apologise for racial stereotyping."
Islam's not a race. And lots of terrorism does involve religious lunatics.
*sighs*
I long for the day when the senior police officer responds to something like this by telling the complainants not to be so stupid, that they work on the basis of sensible risk assessment and that any such assessment at the moment would show that there is a high risk from suicide bombers shouting just this in a place crowded with civilians such as, ooh, I don't know, an airport or a football stadium or a train.
Stereotypes endure because there is a grain of truth in them.
When will the police learn to grow a pair? Sigh......
Back in the 70s my dad was training for a tour in NI. The army had rebuilt part of Belfast as a training ground in Germany. One part was crowd control with squaddies in mufti playing the part of both the Catholic and Protestant crowds. On one occasion they had an Orange March which had to be martialled. The squaddies really got into their roles and when the Orange March came to a corner they suddenly all turned and held up their right hand which they had painted red.
A genuine riot erupted which no doubt made it a very good training exercise. No doubt in those days we were just a little less sensitive.
For me (not that you asked) it depends on what you mean by aligned. Formal or informal alliance - no. It would indicate approval by UKIP of racism. Support for UKIP from former or current BNP members? Sure. I don't care what they think. My views are my views. If they want to get on board with some of them, I really couldn't give a toss.
Quite...that was the point that was being made. That most UKIP supporters wouldn't tolerate association with an openly racist political party.
So when you told me to "ffs shut up" yesterday does that mean you were on the wrong side of the argument?
No, it meant I'm sick of idiots playing the race card. I'm happy to argue with you about racism if you like.
Sooooo....if you call people names it means you're winning the argument. But not neccessarily vice versa......
My point yesterday was very simple.....some people wouldn't support Ukip if they were aligned with the BNP....would you still vote for them in that scenario?
Please answer without mentioning the Labour party or anti semitism as neither are remotely relevant. Thankyou
Why are you persisting with hypothetical, irrelevant arguments? I am a member of Ukip, I signed a form confirming I am not and have never been a member of BNP. For better or worse I have featured in most daily papers and live on radio, I have never been accused of racism.
I appreciate that isn't what you want to hear but if you find anything I have ever said or written that is even vaguely racist I'll make a donation to charity and apologise.
Now I have a question for you:
Are you a rapist? And if not can you prove it?
Is your last question for real - totally unacceptable
Tony Lloyd (Lab PCC) is doing his nut over this, rather than backing the plod. He said this is wrongly stigmatizing Muslims. Because the threat of suicide bombing in the Western World is well known to be equally distributed among different faiths.
If they had been doing a response to an armed robbery I might have to sympathy.
What stigmatizes Muslims is the fact that some Muslims behave like such total arseholes allegedly on behalf of all Muslims and in the name of their religion that they drag others into their vilely warped view of life.
Much as the IRA did for Irishmen in the 1970's.
What will stop the stigma is when the arseholes stop being arseholes. And Tony Lloyd might more usefully use his gob to make this point. Or shut up, if he can't say anything sensible.
What was it that Trevor Phillips said this morning about liberal self-delusion?
Apologies for all the bad language but really......
"Police who staged a mock attack featuring a bomber shouting "Allahu Akbar" have been forced to apologise for racial stereotyping."
Islam's not a race. And lots of terrorism does involve religious lunatics.
*sighs*
I long for the day when the senior police officer responds to something like this by telling the complainants not to be so stupid, that they work on the basis of sensible risk assessment and that any such assessment at the moment would show that there is a high risk from suicide bombers shouting just this in a place crowded with civilians such as, ooh, I don't know, an airport or a football stadium or a train.
Stereotypes endure because there is a grain of truth in them.
When will the police learn to grow a pair? Sigh......
Back in the 70s my dad was training for a tour in NI. The army had rebuilt part of Belfast as a training ground in Germany. One part was crowd control with squaddies in mufti playing the part of both the Catholic and Protestant crowds. On one occasion they had an Orange March which had to be martialled. The squaddies really got into their roles and when the Orange March came to a corner they suddenly all turned and held up their right hand which they had painted red.
A genuine riot erupted which no doubt made it a very good training exercise. No doubt in those days we were just a little less sensitive.
One thinks back to the 2011 looting. Took the police's top brass three days of riots, arson and looting before deciding to actually take necessary measures.
So when you told me to "ffs shut up" yesterday does that mean you were on the wrong side of the argument?
No, it meant I'm sick of idiots playing the race card. I'm happy to argue with you about racism if you like.
Sooooo....if you call people names it means you're winning the argument. But not neccessarily vice versa......
My point yesterday was very simple.....some people wouldn't support Ukip if they were aligned with the BNP....would you still vote for them in that scenario?
Please answer without mentioning the Labour party or anti semitism as neither are remotely relevant. Thankyou
Why are you persisting with hypothetical, irrelevant arguments? I am a member of Ukip, I signed a form confirming I am not and have never been a member of BNP. For better or worse I have featured in most daily papers and live on radio, I have never been accused of racism.
I appreciate that isn't what you want to hear but if you find anything I have ever said or written that is even vaguely racist I'll make a donation to charity and apologise.
Now I have a question for you:
Are you a rapist? And if not can you prove it?
Is your last question for real - totally unacceptable
Nope, I'm sick and tired of people unreasonably playing the racist card, swap the c for a p and look at the response. I didn't accuse him of being a rapist
BBC presenters can hardly contain their glee at the PM's gaffe and made it their lead story. How truly pathetic. Even though there was a camera and microphone, I thought comments made when the Queen is present are normally private.
BBC presenters can hardly contain their glee at the PM's gaffe and made it their lead story. How truly pathetic. Even though there was a camera and microphone, I thought comments made when the Queen is present are normally private.
Not sure that's a running argument, her husband's gaffes have been news fodder for years !
The Queen of course seems to be a damn sight brighter and more diplomatic than Dave. She is not the story here
@paulwaugh: Get this. No10 hinting Cameron *knew* mics were on when he called Afghanistan/Nigeria 'fantastically corrupt'. 'Cameras are v close to him'
BBC presenters can hardly contain their glee at the PM's gaffe and made it their lead story. How truly pathetic. Even though there was a camera and microphone, I thought comments made when the Queen is present are normally private.
Tony Lloyd (Lab PCC) is doing his nut over this, rather than backing the plod. He said this is wrongly stigmatizing Muslims. Because the threat of suicide bombing in the Western World is well known to be equally distributed among different faiths.
If they had been doing a response to an armed robbery I might have to sympathy.
What stigmatizes Muslims is the fact that some Muslims behave like such total arseholes allegedly on behalf of all Muslims and in the name of their religion that they drag others into their vilely warped view of life.
Much as the IRA did for Irishmen in the 1970's.
What will stop the stigma is when the arseholes stop being arseholes. And Tony Lloyd might more usefully use his gob to make this point. Or shut up, if he can't say anything sensible.
What was it that Trevor Phillips said this morning about liberal self-delusion?
Apologies for all the bad language but really......
Tony Lloyd (Lab PCC) is doing his nut over this, rather than backing the plod. He said this is wrongly stigmatizing Muslims. Because the threat of suicide bombing in the Western World is well known to be equally distributed among different faiths.
Maybe they should have rotated training with saffron-robed Buddhists chanting "Ommmmmmmm"?
But what terrorists would Buddhists be.
Would they be a knife attacker, or a gunman, or a suicide bomber?
Sometimes Diplomacy should take a back seat..It is refreshing to hear it like it is....the message will not be lost on either country..they are both corrupt..they need to stop it.
Tony Lloyd (Lab PCC) is doing his nut over this, rather than backing the plod. He said this is wrongly stigmatizing Muslims. Because the threat of suicide bombing in the Western World is well known to be equally distributed among different faiths.
Maybe they should have rotated training with saffron-robed Buddhists chanting "Ommmmmmmm"?
But what terrorists would Buddhists be.
Would they be a knife attacker, or a gunman, or a suicide bomber?
Good piece of analysis, Mr Meeks. It confirms my view that Cameron is a lousy negotiator and, at least as far as the EU is concerned, strategist. Being tone-deaf to the negotiating environment and the interests/values of the other parties is no way to maximize one's own outcome.
Yep ..... that's why I'm voting LEAVE. Not only did Cameron get a lousy rushed deal (if indeed one can call it a deal, given the EU's wriggle room), but he then has the temerity to try to kid us that it's a great deal, effectively treating us like fools. Well, sorry, but he's been caught out and it will finish him.
"What is does have to do with is a country in which the population is going through the roof, chiefly because of open-door immigration, and the fact the M4 is not as navigable as it used to be."
@paulwaugh: Get this. No10 hinting Cameron *knew* mics were on when he called Afghanistan/Nigeria 'fantastically corrupt'. 'Cameras are v close to him'
The West Wing defence...
No wonder his negotiations went so badly with the European Union.
@paulwaugh: Get this. No10 hinting Cameron *knew* mics were on when he called Afghanistan/Nigeria 'fantastically corrupt'. 'Cameras are v close to him'
The West Wing defence...
No wonder his negotiations went so badly with the European Union.
And fancy lecturing the Queen about a Commonwealth country. Oh dear. He's pretty hapless at the moment.
BGNW..India and Egypt are well up there in the corruption league..I was in a negotiation with an Egyptian official and was told that in order to get the deal done I would have to take a brand new Merc to his office...and take a taxi home..
3. Humour. Politics can be both dull and funny. This site seems to have missed the latter.
^^ This is constructive ^^
Jeremy Corbyn is a hoot. But the Lefties don't get the joke....
Guido arguably overdoes the humour but we do need some in thread headers.
Just finished Season 4 of House of Cards. Jeez it's good. Best series I've ever watched (outstrips the West Wing). How's it possible to make someone that Machiavellian so darn likeable? Well I guess humour's part of it.
'BBC presenters can hardly contain their glee at the PM's gaffe and made it their lead story. How truly pathetic. Even though there was a camera and microphone, I thought comments made when the Queen is present are normally private.'
What's wrong with our politicians telling the truth occasionally ?
Maybe they could give us an estimate of how many billions of taxpayers money has been wasted in these countries.
BGNW..India and Egypt are well up there in the corruption league..I was in a negotiation with an Egyptian official and was told that in order to get the deal done I would have to take a brand new Merc to his office...and take a taxi home..
Comments
The thread header is interesting but it reeks of "I'm impartial and objective, not like those - insert abuse - Leavers."
The change of tack is revealing, I wonder if Remain will become more conciliatory after RACIST!!! and WAR!!!! fell flat.
IDS tells me Remain are 'resorting to name calling' 'means they are losing the argument' after Alan Johnson said Outers held 'extreme' views
Is there something about REMAIN that induces this abusive language in some of their supporters?
Lord Rose = Wages up
NIESR = Wages down.
AFAIK NIESR have a worse record in economic forecasting, because Lord Rose has not done many.
Incidentally, it's worth noting the polls are neck-and-neck, so neither side has room for complacency.
http://www.conservativehome.com/thecolumnists/2016/05/ruth-davidson-how-we-did-it-and-what-we-are-going-to-do-next.html
Last week when we were arguing he called me an odious cretin.
About the same as you'd expect for any other Labourite.
'Nigeria & Afghanistan, possibly the two most corrupt countries in the world.'
Prolly a good thing if Dave won't be around much longer to defend the foreign aid budget.
"Police who staged a mock attack featuring a bomber shouting "Allahu Akbar" have been forced to apologise for racial stereotyping."
Islam's not a race. And lots of terrorism does involve religious lunatics.
*sighs*
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36260193
Afghanistan is 172/175 most corrupt.
Nigeria is only 136/175.
It's a little harsh on Nigeria, but fair comment.
Perhaps he didn't realise you were arguing?
Oh right, good point
So when you told me to "ffs shut up" yesterday does that mean you were on the wrong side of the argument?
Sorry but if I don't say it, it's just going to continue sliding away.
So when you told me to "ffs shut up" yesterday does that mean you were on the wrong side of the argument?
No, it meant I'm sick of idiots playing the race card. I'm happy to argue with you about racism if you like.
Either way.
UK aid to India (2015): £279,000,000
UK aid to the EU, NET (2015): £8,500,000,000
1. An editor. Someone ruthless with a good grasp of English who will cut op ed threads down to the 20% of useful words that currently inhabit them. The verbosity is staggering.
2. Broaden the political appeal instead of this monochromatic and deathly dull repetition
3. Humour. Politics can be both dull and funny. This site seems to have missed the latter.
^^ This is constructive ^^
Stereotypes endure because there is a grain of truth in them.
When will the police learn to grow a pair? Sigh......
I'm wondering if the best thing that happened to Leave was Lynton Crosby's 2015 GE win. It has lulled an already arrogant Cameron Cabal into thinking he walks on water. They thought they could simply transpose the negative GE campaign to the EU Ref. As we've seen with Zac it can disastrously backfire and it seems to be here.
Negative campaigning may work in the US. It rarely does this side of the pond.
No, it meant I'm sick of idiots playing the race card. I'm happy to argue with you about racism if you like.
Sooooo....if you call people names it means you're winning the argument. But not neccessarily vice versa......
My point yesterday was very simple.....some people wouldn't support Ukip if they were aligned with the BNP....would you still vote for them in that scenario?
Please answer without mentioning the Labour party or anti semitism as neither are remotely relevant. Thankyou
Sooooo....if you call people names it means you're winning the argument. But not neccessarily vice versa......
My point yesterday was very simple.....some people wouldn't support Ukip if they were aligned with the BNP....would you still vote for them in that scenario?
Please answer without mentioning the Labour party or anti semitism as neither are remotely relevant. Thankyou
I'm so glad you have the authority to decide what is and is not relevant. Things can so confusing without a strong hand to order the rest of us about.
If they had been doing a response to an armed robbery I might have to sympathy.
Sooooo....if you call people names it means you're winning the argument. But not neccessarily vice versa......
My point yesterday was very simple.....some people wouldn't support Ukip if they were aligned with the BNP....would you still vote for them in that scenario?
Please answer without mentioning the Labour party or anti semitism as neither are remotely relevant. Thankyou
For me (not that you asked) it depends on what you mean by aligned. Formal or informal alliance - no. It would indicate approval by UKIP of racism. Support for UKIP from former or current BNP members? Sure. I don't care what they think. My views are my views. If they want to get on board with some of them, I really couldn't give a toss.
One thinks back to the 2011 looting. Took the police's top brass three days of riots, arson and looting before deciding to actually take necessary measures.
A genuine riot erupted which no doubt made it a very good training exercise. No doubt in those days we were just a little less sensitive.
The Queen of course seems to be a damn sight brighter and more diplomatic than Dave. She is not the story here
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eArmDpMR_p5op62r6nW_mf7OgoXybDHmgQCiywbp4hs/edit?usp=sharing
So we got chatting about what it was like operating in different parts of the world and he said that the company he worked for had a very strict policy on any sort of back handers, kick backs, favours, etc etc etc i.e. low level corruption....which he then prefaced well except Nigeria, got to be one of the most corrupt places on the planet, there we just have to bribe f##king everybody to get anything done.
On the bright side, I think there is something in Mr. P's post upthread that the site will refresh on 24th June. Hopefully, that will return the site to some of its old vitality and maybe we will see some of the old faces return, we might even see some good-natured discussions of engineering, trains, history, statistics and cricket mixed in with the political betting stuff.
Failing that my hope is with Mr. Indigo who, I think, is working on a new version of Edmund's widget - then at least we can skip over those posters we find to be offensive/repetitive/annoying.
Sooooo....if you call people names it means you're winning the argument. But not neccessarily vice versa......
My point yesterday was very simple.....some people wouldn't support Ukip if they were aligned with the BNP....would you still vote for them in that scenario?
Please answer without mentioning the Labour party or anti semitism as neither are remotely relevant. Thankyou
Why are you persisting with hypothetical, irrelevant arguments? I am a member of Ukip, I signed a form confirming I am not and have never been a member of BNP. For better or worse I have featured in most daily papers and live on radio, I have never been accused of racism.
I appreciate that isn't what you want to hear but if you find anything I have ever said or written that is even vaguely racist I'll make a donation to charity and apologise.
Now I have a question for you:
Are you a rapist? And if not can you prove it?
"Mufti" can mean:
1. Civilian attire.
2. Islamic scholar.
Confusing.
For me (not that you asked) it depends on what you mean by aligned. Formal or informal alliance - no. It would indicate approval by UKIP of racism. Support for UKIP from former or current BNP members? Sure. I don't care what they think. My views are my views. If they want to get on board with some of them, I really couldn't give a toss.
Quite...that was the point that was being made. That most UKIP supporters wouldn't tolerate association with an openly racist political party.
My point yesterday was very simple.....some people wouldn't support Ukip if they were aligned with the BNP....would you still vote for them in that scenario?
Please answer without mentioning the Labour party or anti semitism as neither are remotely relevant. Thankyou
Why are you persisting with hypothetical, irrelevant arguments? I am a member of Ukip, I signed a form confirming I am not and have never been a member of BNP. For better or worse I have featured in most daily papers and live on radio, I have never been accused of racism.
I appreciate that isn't what you want to hear but if you find anything I have ever said or written that is even vaguely racist I'll make a donation to charity and apologise.
Now I have a question for you:
Are you a rapist? And if not can you prove it?
Is your last question for real - totally unacceptable
Much as the IRA did for Irishmen in the 1970's.
What will stop the stigma is when the arseholes stop being arseholes. And Tony Lloyd might more usefully use his gob to make this point. Or shut up, if he can't say anything sensible.
What was it that Trevor Phillips said this morning about liberal self-delusion?
Apologies for all the bad language but really......
EMA = Electrical Merchandise Allowance
I appreciate that isn't what you want to hear but if you find anything I have ever said or written that is even vaguely racist I'll make a donation to charity and apologise.
Now I have a question for you:
Are you a rapist? And if not can you prove it?
Is your last question for real - totally unacceptable
Nope, I'm sick and tired of people unreasonably playing the racist card, swap the c for a p and look at the response. I didn't accuse him of being a rapist
The West Wing defence...
But what terrorists would Buddhists be.
Would they be a knife attacker, or a gunman, or a suicide bomber?
Or would they be one with everything?
Q. Why did the Europhile cross the road?
A. Because Brussels told him to!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index#/media/File:Transparency_international_2015.png
"What is does have to do with is a country in which the population is going through the roof, chiefly because of open-door immigration, and the fact the M4 is not as navigable as it used to be."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36261170
Guido arguably overdoes the humour but we do need some in thread headers.
Just finished Season 4 of House of Cards. Jeez it's good. Best series I've ever watched (outstrips the West Wing). How's it possible to make someone that Machiavellian so darn likeable? Well I guess humour's part of it.
'BBC presenters can hardly contain their glee at the PM's gaffe and made it their lead story. How truly pathetic. Even though there was a camera and microphone, I thought comments made when the Queen is present are normally private.'
What's wrong with our politicians telling the truth occasionally ?
Maybe they could give us an estimate of how many billions of taxpayers money has been wasted in these countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index