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  • rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Indigo said:

    Very interesting thanks.

    I am studying the local opinion polls here in the Philippines for the General election a week on Monday, it's it going to be fascinating to see how accurate it is, as you would think on the surface they have some almost insurmountable problems in getting a representative sample.

    A country of 100 million people, 54.5 million registered voters, encompassing an archipelago of some 7,641 islands. 25 million people and probably a third of the electorate live in the capital, with many more spread out amongst hundreds of small regional cities, but probably half the population living out in the "province" in small village settlements. Quite a few of those in the remotest areas won't have a television set themselves but will share one communally, and may only have 2-3 mobile phones in the extended family, and certainly won't have a landline or an internet connection. But civic pride is keenly felt, and most adults will vote.

    Don't forget that 10 years ago we didn't have smart phones, 20 years ago we didn't have the internet and 80 years ago we didn't have TV, let alone David Dimbleby or even his dad!

    But somehow or other we still managed to get by when General Elections came along.

    You'll be telling us life went on before the EU next. And who could believe that?
    Don't be stupid, there was no UK before the EU, merely a small barren island populated by a few starving savages
    In the 70s we were the sick man of Europe, we then joined the EC, and miraculously stopped being the sick man of Europe.

    Huzzah for the EC
    No we didn't. Even you are not dumb enough to believe that. We joined and remained the sick man of Europe until we elected a leader who was willing and able to deal with the issues. Being in the EEC at the time had Sweet FA to do with it.
    It was a joke, in response to DavidL's and Robert's joke.
    It is a claim that was repeated to me almost word for word when I was on a Leave stall in Newark a couple of weeks ago. Along with the idiocy that the EU prevented war in Europe.

    No claim is too dumb for some Remain supporters at the moment.
    Come June 23rd, we'll be able to share great tales of the stupidity of some voters on both sides.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,249

    DavidL said:

    Danny565 said:

    DavidL said:

    Almost half of Britons pay no income tax while the richest are now shouldering the biggest burden on record, a new analysis has found.

    The Institute for Fiscal Studies said that the proportion of working-age adults who do not pay income tax has risen from 34.3 per cent to 43.8 per cent, equivalent to 30million people*.

    Over the same period the amount of income tax paid by the richest 1 per cent has risen from 24.4 per cent to 27.5 per cent, meaning that 300,000 people pay more than a quarter of the nation's income tax.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/26/nearly-half-of-britons-pay-no-income-tax-as-burden-on-rich-incre/

    * This is clearly wrong, as there aren't 60+ million working age adults in the UK (even with the dodgy government figures)

    That is an awful lot of people not particularly incentivised to vote for a party trying to restrict public spending.

    As they kept saying in Meet the Robinsons " I am not sure that this plan has been properly thought through ,"
    DavidL in "mildly unflattering comment about Osborne" SHOCK

    ;)
    Damn. And you waited until my 6 minutes were up. Trapped for posterity. What do I do now?

    Blame it on auto-correct?

    Mark, everyone knows that autocorrect is supposed to prevent criticism of our near perfect Chancellor, not cause it. That will never fly.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    edited April 2016
    MaxPB said:

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/sanders-clinton-supporters-go-out-to-you

    A audience member who said he backs Sanders' candidacy asked the senator whether he will encourage his supporters to back Clinton if she wins the nomination.

    "We’re not a movement where I can snap my fingers and say to you or to anybody else what you should do, that you should all listen to me. You shouldn’t. You make these decisions yourself," Sanders replied.

    He then said that Clinton will have to court his supporters herself.

    "And if Secretary Clinton wins, it is incumbent upon her to tell millions of people who right now do not believe in establishment politics or establishment economics, who have serious misgivings about a candidate who has received millions of dollars from Wall Street and other special interests," he said. "She has got to go out to you."

    Ruh roh.

    Hah !

    That's as close to a non endorsement as you'll get from Sanders. Desperately unhelpful to Hillary.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,932

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:


    You'll be telling us life went on before the EU next. And who could believe that?

    Don't be stupid, there was no UK before the EU, merely a small barren island populated by a few starving savages
    In the 70s we were the sick man of Europe, we then joined the EC, and miraculously stopped being the sick man of Europe.

    Huzzah for the EC
    So, nothing to do with finding a lot of oil in the North Sea then? Or Maggie? Just the munificent EU. We are truly not worthy.
    Was down, to Callaghan, Healey, and Thatcher.

    I saw some stats on twitter last week, economically we truly were a basket case in the 70s, and the EC was performing much better than us, which was one of the reasons we voted to Remain in 1975.

    Now the stats are the other way around.
    Growth was higher in the 1970s:

    1970-1979 2.6%pa
    2000-2009 1.9%pa
    2010-2015 2.0%pa

    http://web.ons.gov.uk/ons/datasets-and-tables/data-selector.html?cdid=IHYP&dataset=pn2&table-id=C2

    It was also an era of higher productivity growth and increasing home ownership.

    There were many things wrong with the 1970s but we tend to be complacent about how successful we are now.

    If you calculate by GDP per head then the difference becomes even greater:

    1970-1979 2.5%pa
    2000-2009 1.3%pa
    2010-2015 1.3%pa

    http://web.ons.gov.uk/ons/datasets-and-tables/data-selector.html?cdid=N3Y6&dataset=qna&table-id=P
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,249
    Danny565 said:

    DavidL said:

    Danny565 said:

    DavidL said:

    Almost half of Britons pay no income tax while the richest are now shouldering the biggest burden on record, a new analysis has found.

    The Institute for Fiscal Studies said that the proportion of working-age adults who do not pay income tax has risen from 34.3 per cent to 43.8 per cent, equivalent to 30million people*.

    Over the same period the amount of income tax paid by the richest 1 per cent has risen from 24.4 per cent to 27.5 per cent, meaning that 300,000 people pay more than a quarter of the nation's income tax.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/26/nearly-half-of-britons-pay-no-income-tax-as-burden-on-rich-incre/

    * This is clearly wrong, as there aren't 60+ million working age adults in the UK (even with the dodgy government figures)

    That is an awful lot of people not particularly incentivised to vote for a party trying to restrict public spending.

    As they kept saying in Meet the Robinsons " I am not sure that this plan has been properly thought through ,"
    DavidL in "mildly unflattering comment about Osborne" SHOCK

    ;)
    Damn. And you waited until my 6 minutes were up. Trapped for posterity. What do I do now?
    You give into your urges and apply for your Labour Momentum membership
    You think this is the right response to having a Tory Chancellor who seems to be more left wing than me? Not sure about that.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited April 2016

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Indigo said:

    Very interesting thanks.



    A country of 100 million people, 54.5 million registered voters, encompassing an archipelago of some 7,641 islands. 25 million people and probably a third of the electorate live in the capital, with many more spread out amongst hundreds of small regional cities, but probably half the population living out in the "province" in small village settlements. Quite a few of those in the remotest areas won't have a television set themselves but will share one communally, and may only have 2-3 mobile phones in the extended family, and certainly won't have a landline or an internet connection. But civic pride is keenly felt, and most adults will vote.

    Don't forget that 10 years ago we didn't have smart phones, 20 years ago we didn't have the internet and 80 years ago we didn't have TV, let alone David Dimbleby or even his dad!

    But somehow or other we still managed to get by when General Elections came along.

    You'll be telling us life went on before the EU next. And who could believe that?
    Don't be stupid, there was no UK before the EU, merely a small barren island populated by a few starving savages
    In the 70s we were the sick man of Europe, we then joined the EC, and miraculously stopped being the sick man of Europe.

    Huzzah for the EC
    So, nothing to do with finding a lot of oil in the North Sea then? Or Maggie? Just the munificent EU. We are truly not worthy.
    Was down, to Callaghan, Healey, and Thatcher.

    I saw some stats on twitter last week, economically we truly were a basket case in the 70s, and the EC was performing much better than us, which was one of the reasons we voted to Remain in 1975.

    Now the stats are the other way around.
    Growth was higher in the 1970s:

    1970-1979 2.6%pa
    2000-2009 1.9%pa
    2010-2015 2.0%pa

    http://web.ons.gov.uk/ons/datasets-and-tables/data-selector.html?cdid=IHYP&dataset=pn2&table-id=C2

    It was also an era of higher productivity growth and increasing home ownership.

    There were many things wrong with the 1970s but we tend to be complacent about how successful we are now.

    Lack of manpower due to full employment meant that businesses had to invest to boost productivity.
    Today with endless manpower due to mass immigration there is no reason for businesses to invest for productivity gains.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,249

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Indigo said:

    Don't forget that 10 years ago we didn't have smart phones, 20 years ago we didn't have the internet and 80 years ago we didn't have TV, let alone David Dimbleby or even his dad!

    But somehow or other we still managed to get by when General Elections came along.

    You'll be telling us life went on before the EU next. And who could believe that?
    Don't be stupid, there was no UK before the EU, merely a small barren island populated by a few starving savages
    In the 70s we were the sick man of Europe, we then joined the EC, and miraculously stopped being the sick man of Europe.

    Huzzah for the EC
    So, nothing to do with finding a lot of oil in the North Sea then? Or Maggie? Just the munificent EU. We are truly not worthy.
    Was down, to Callaghan, Healey, and Thatcher.

    I saw some stats on twitter last week, economically we truly were a basket case in the 70s, and the EC was performing much better than us, which was one of the reasons we voted to Remain in 1975.

    Now the stats are the other way around.
    Growth was higher in the 1970s:

    1970-1979 2.6%pa
    2000-2009 1.9%pa
    2010-2015 2.0%pa

    http://web.ons.gov.uk/ons/datasets-and-tables/data-selector.html?cdid=IHYP&dataset=pn2&table-id=C2

    It was also an era of higher productivity growth and increasing home ownership.

    There were many things wrong with the 1970s but we tend to be complacent about how successful we are now.

    The metrics used wasn't just growth, things like industrial days lost to strike, unemployment etc.
    No, what changed is that as soon as we got on board we managed to bugger up the EEC so it didn't work as well for the existing members. First they grew more slowly, then as slowly as us and eventually even more slowly than us. This cunning plan has almost reached completion with pretty much no growth in the EZ at all so it is now safe for us to leave.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Almost half of Britons pay no income tax while the richest are now shouldering the biggest burden on record, a new analysis has found.

    The Institute for Fiscal Studies said that the proportion of working-age adults who do not pay income tax has risen from 34.3 per cent to 43.8 per cent, equivalent to 30million people*.

    Over the same period the amount of income tax paid by the richest 1 per cent has risen from 24.4 per cent to 27.5 per cent, meaning that 300,000 people pay more than a quarter of the nation's income tax.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/26/nearly-half-of-britons-pay-no-income-tax-as-burden-on-rich-incre/

    * This is clearly wrong, as there aren't 60+ million working age adults in the UK (even with the dodgy government figures)

    On income tax, fair enough. I suspect that the poor pay little in capital gains tax or inheritance tax either.

    They do pay a lot of VAT, and other duties on tobacco, alcohol, and fuel. Voluntary behaviours in many ways , but a significant contribution to national coffers.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    I do hope we keep the NHS forever, soooooooooooo many medical commercials on US TV !
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    SeanT said:

    The Naz Shah story perpetuates a toxic narrative for Labour.

    I don't for a second believe that 1% of white British Labour voters are anti-Semitic. It just doesn't exist in their core vote, or their wider British vote.

    But the Labour PARTY is now infested with anti-Semitism. And the vector is: Islam.

    It feels very much the way the Tories have in the past had issues with too many who were homophobic & racist....now labour have similar issues with antisemitism, equality, etc.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited April 2016
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Indigo said:

    Very interesting thanks.

    I am studying the local opinion polls here in the Philippines for the General election a week on Monday, it's it going to be fascinating to see how accurate it is, as you would think on the surface they have some almost insurmountable problems in getting a representative sample.

    A country of 100 million people, 54.5 million registered voters, encompassing an archipelago of some 7,641 islands. 25 million people and probably a third of the electorate live in the capital, with many more spread out amongst hundreds of small regional cities, but probably half the population living out in the "province" in small village settlements. Quite a few of those in the remotest areas won't have a television set themselves but will share one communally, and may only have 2-3 mobile phones in the extended family, and certainly won't have a landline or an internet connection. But civic pride is keenly felt, and most adults will vote.

    Don't forget that 10 years ago we didn't have smart phones, 20 years ago we didn't have the internet and 80 years ago we didn't have TV, let alone David Dimbleby or even his dad!

    But somehow or other we still managed to get by when General Elections came along.

    You'll be telling us life went on before the EU next. And who could believe that?
    Don't be stupid, there was no UK before the EU, merely a small barren island populated by a few starving savages
    A natural consequence of the land bridge flooding.

    Now that's what you call BREXIT.
  • Interest piece Pulpstar.
    Thanks for sharing
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,938

    Queen_UK

    Whoever owns that account is very witty. The attempt to ape it with a Merkel spoof 'Queen_Europe' pales in comparison.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,932
    Speedy said:

    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Indigo said:

    Very interesting thanks.



    A country of 100 million people, 54.5 million registered voters, encompassing an archipelago of some 7,641 islands. 25 million people and probably a third of the electorate live in the capital, with many more spread out amongst hundreds of small regional cities, but probably half the population living out in the "province" in small village settlements. Quite a few of those in the remotest areas won't have a television set themselves but will share one communally, and may only have 2-3 mobile phones in the extended family, and certainly won't have a landline or an internet connection. But civic pride is keenly felt, and most adults will vote.

    Don't forget that 10 years ago we didn't have smart phones, 20 years ago we didn't have the internet and 80 years ago we didn't have TV, let alone David Dimbleby or even his dad!

    But somehow or other we still managed to get by when General Elections came along.

    You'll be telling us life went on before the EU next. And who could believe that?
    Don't be stupid, there was no UK before the EU, merely a small barren island populated by a few starving savages
    In the 70s we were the sick man of Europe, we then joined the EC, and miraculously stopped being the sick man of Europe.

    Huzzah for the EC
    So, nothing to do with finding a lot of oil in the North Sea then? Or Maggie? Just the munificent EU. We are truly not worthy.
    Was down, to Callaghan, Healey, and Thatcher.

    I saw some stats on twitter last week, economically we truly were a basket case in the 70s, and the EC was performing much better than us, which was one of the reasons we voted to Remain in 1975.

    Now the stats are the other way around.
    Growth was higher in the 1970s:

    1970-1979 2.6%pa
    2000-2009 1.9%pa
    2010-2015 2.0%pa

    http://web.ons.gov.uk/ons/datasets-and-tables/data-selector.html?cdid=IHYP&dataset=pn2&table-id=C2

    It was also an era of higher productivity growth and increasing home ownership.

    There were many things wrong with the 1970s but we tend to be complacent about how successful we are now.

    Lack of manpower due to full employment meant that businesses had to invest to boost productivity.
    Today with endless manpower due to mass immigration there is no reason for businesses to invest for productivity gains.
    It all connects:

    Higher investment -> higher productivity -> higher pay -> higher home ownership
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    FPT

    Slam dunk for Leave tonight in the Spectator debate.

    There were 2,200 in the audience according to Andrew Neil. Largest in the history of the Spectator.

    It was a simple show of cards at the end, adjudicated by Dan Hannan and Liz Kendal.

    From what I saw I'd say 60% for Leave, 30% for Remain and 10% still undecided.

    It really was very good. I'd recommend to anyone to watch it.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,938

    James David Cameron ?

    He's Liberal, not Labour.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    DavidL said:

    Almost half of Britons pay no income tax while the richest are now shouldering the biggest burden on record, a new analysis has found.

    The Institute for Fiscal Studies said that the proportion of working-age adults who do not pay income tax has risen from 34.3 per cent to 43.8 per cent, equivalent to 30million people*.

    Over the same period the amount of income tax paid by the richest 1 per cent has risen from 24.4 per cent to 27.5 per cent, meaning that 300,000 people pay more than a quarter of the nation's income tax.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/26/nearly-half-of-britons-pay-no-income-tax-as-burden-on-rich-incre/

    * This is clearly wrong, as there aren't 60+ million working age adults in the UK (even with the dodgy government figures)

    That is an awful lot of people not particularly incentivised to vote for a party trying to restrict public spending.

    As they kept saying in Meet the Robinsons " I am not sure that this plan has been properly thought through ,"
    It obviously even worse, as a lot of those people will also be on tax credits.

    What it highlights to me is we clearly have far too many people being paid very little or not working, and there isn't an easy way to fix the former. Simply escalating minimum wage further won't do it. We have a huge structural imbalance, just as we do with service vs other sectors.

    Would be interesting to know wage distributions in Germany. I am presuming because of a much bigger [semi]-skilled manufacturing base, those people get paid reasonably well.
    Large parts of East Germany are depopulated because of the lack of well paying jobs. The government subsidies to try and create employment there are humongous
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited April 2016

    SeanT said:

    The Naz Shah story perpetuates a toxic narrative for Labour.

    I don't for a second believe that 1% of white British Labour voters are anti-Semitic. It just doesn't exist in their core vote, or their wider British vote.

    But the Labour PARTY is now infested with anti-Semitism. And the vector is: Islam.

    It feels very much the way the Tories have in the past had issues with too many who were homophobic & racist....now labour have similar issues with antisemitism, equality, etc.
    Except there weren't ever many racists in the Conservative Party. They were more likely to be found in Labour areas like the East End.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Almost half of Britons pay no income tax while the richest are now shouldering the biggest burden on record, a new analysis has found.

    The Institute for Fiscal Studies said that the proportion of working-age adults who do not pay income tax has risen from 34.3 per cent to 43.8 per cent, equivalent to 30million people*.

    Over the same period the amount of income tax paid by the richest 1 per cent has risen from 24.4 per cent to 27.5 per cent, meaning that 300,000 people pay more than a quarter of the nation's income tax.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/26/nearly-half-of-britons-pay-no-income-tax-as-burden-on-rich-incre/

    * This is clearly wrong, as there aren't 60+ million working age adults in the UK (even with the dodgy government figures)

    That is an awful lot of people not particularly incentivised to vote for a party trying to restrict public spending.

    As they kept saying in Meet the Robinsons " I am not sure that this plan has been properly thought through ,"
    It obviously even worse, as a lot of those people will also be on tax credits.

    What it highlights to me is we clearly have far too many people being paid very little or not working, and there isn't an easy way to fix the former. Simply escalating minimum wage further won't do it. We have a huge structural imbalance, just as we do with service vs other sectors.

    Would be interesting to know wage distributions in Germany. I am presuming because of a much bigger [semi]-skilled manufacturing base, those people get paid reasonably well.
    Large parts of East Germany are depopulated because of the lack of well paying jobs. The government subsidies to try and create employment there are humongous
    I went to East Germany once, what a beep beep. Why anybody would want to go on a motorcycle holiday there is beyond me!
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    FPT

    Slam dunk for Leave tonight in the Spectator debate.

    There were 2,200 in the audience according to Andrew Neil. Largest in the history of the Spectator.

    It was a simple show of cards at the end, adjudicated by Dan Hannan and Liz Kendal.

    From what I saw I'd say 60% for Leave, 30% for Remain and 10% still undecided.

    It really was very good. I'd recommend to anyone to watch it.

    Was that with a London audience?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,728



    Come June 23rd, we'll be able to share great tales of the stupidity of some voters on both sides.

    I am not waiting. :-)

    On the same day I also had one bloke trying to convince me that the EU was both a Nazi and a Soviet plot to subjugate Britain (not sure if he meant Britain alone or the whole of Europe including Britain).

    Trouble is with lots of other people around who clearly knew the bloke was talking balls you have to work out how to quietly get rid of him without a big argument in which you end up defending the EU.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    FPT

    Slam dunk for Leave tonight in the Spectator debate.

    There were 2,200 in the audience according to Andrew Neil. Largest in the history of the Spectator.

    It was a simple show of cards at the end, adjudicated by Dan Hannan and Liz Kendal.

    From what I saw I'd say 60% for Leave, 30% for Remain and 10% still undecided.

    It really was very good. I'd recommend to anyone to watch it.

    Did Chuka succeed in putting people off with his metro elite vibe?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited April 2016
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Almost half of Britons pay no income tax while the richest are now shouldering the biggest burden on record, a new analysis has found.

    The Institute for Fiscal Studies said that the proportion of working-age adults who do not pay income tax has risen from 34.3 per cent to 43.8 per cent, equivalent to 30million people*.

    Over the same period the amount of income tax paid by the richest 1 per cent has risen from 24.4 per cent to 27.5 per cent, meaning that 300,000 people pay more than a quarter of the nation's income tax.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/26/nearly-half-of-britons-pay-no-income-tax-as-burden-on-rich-incre/

    * This is clearly wrong, as there aren't 60+ million working age adults in the UK (even with the dodgy government figures)

    That is an awful lot of people not particularly incentivised to vote for a party trying to restrict public spending.

    As they kept saying in Meet the Robinsons " I am not sure that this plan has been properly thought through ,"
    It obviously even worse, as a lot of those people will also be on tax credits.

    What it highlights to me is we clearly have far too many people being paid very little or not working, and there isn't an easy way to fix the former. Simply escalating minimum wage further won't do it. We have a huge structural imbalance, just as we do with service vs other sectors.

    Would be interesting to know wage distributions in Germany. I am presuming because of a much bigger [semi]-skilled manufacturing base, those people get paid reasonably well.
    Large parts of East Germany are depopulated because of the lack of well paying jobs. The government subsidies to try and create employment there are humongous
    Large parts of East Germany are depopulated because they left for the west during the Cold War and just after the wall fell.
    The GDR lost 2 million people before the Berlin Wall was built if I remember correctly, that was the reason why it was built.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Pop quiz PBers.

    Can you name the 3 Labour Prime Ministers who had the first name James.

    James Callaghan
    Gordon Brown
    Ramsey MacDonald
    James Scullion
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    MP_SE said:

    FPT

    Slam dunk for Leave tonight in the Spectator debate.

    There were 2,200 in the audience according to Andrew Neil. Largest in the history of the Spectator.

    It was a simple show of cards at the end, adjudicated by Dan Hannan and Liz Kendal.

    From what I saw I'd say 60% for Leave, 30% for Remain and 10% still undecided.

    It really was very good. I'd recommend to anyone to watch it.

    Did Chuka succeed in putting people off with his metro elite vibe?
    Put it this way, I can now see why Liz Kendall didn't become Labour leader. She was by far the poorest.

    Chuka struck me as a bit of a sixth form debater but had his good moments and may well grow into it.

    Clegg was the best and most eloquent, but lost it when asked for just 1 good reason to stay in the EU and said "strength in numbers" and was laughed at

    Kate Hoey's speech was good but had a couple of brainfarts during the Q&A

    Nigel Farage was passionate and convincing but his tone wasn't quite right in one or two places and came close to suggesting that the EU provoked Putin's invasion of Ukraine

    Dan Hannan was consistently good, his speech and the Q&A and brought the house down

    Remain very much on the defensive and Leave had the better of the arguments overall
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    JohnO said:

    Pop quiz PBers.

    Can you name the 3 Labour Prime Ministers who had the first name James.

    Presumably MacDonald, Wilson and Brown?

    JohnO wins!

    James Ramsay MacDonald, James Harold Wilson, and James Gordon Brown.

    Leonard James Callaghan doesn't count, which is amusing as he was the only one who went by the name James.
    James Henry Scullion!

  • AndyJS said:

    SeanT said:

    The Naz Shah story perpetuates a toxic narrative for Labour.

    I don't for a second believe that 1% of white British Labour voters are anti-Semitic. It just doesn't exist in their core vote, or their wider British vote.

    But the Labour PARTY is now infested with anti-Semitism. And the vector is: Islam.

    It feels very much the way the Tories have in the past had issues with too many who were homophobic & racist....now labour have similar issues with antisemitism, equality, etc.
    Except there weren't ever many racists in the Conservative Party. They were more likely to be found in Labour areas like the East End.
    or Jock's such as Keir Hardie.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    AndyJS said:

    FPT

    Slam dunk for Leave tonight in the Spectator debate.

    There were 2,200 in the audience according to Andrew Neil. Largest in the history of the Spectator.

    It was a simple show of cards at the end, adjudicated by Dan Hannan and Liz Kendal.

    From what I saw I'd say 60% for Leave, 30% for Remain and 10% still undecided.

    It really was very good. I'd recommend to anyone to watch it.

    Was that with a London audience?
    20% Rathbone clients (sponsors) and rest Spectator subscribers/general public

    Must have been 90%+ white (if not more so) and about 65% of those were over 55, but with about a third who were under 45. And quite a few students.
  • Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Almost half of Britons pay no income tax while the richest are now shouldering the biggest burden on record, a new analysis has found.

    The Institute for Fiscal Studies said that the proportion of working-age adults who do not pay income tax has risen from 34.3 per cent to 43.8 per cent, equivalent to 30million people*.

    Over the same period the amount of income tax paid by the richest 1 per cent has risen from 24.4 per cent to 27.5 per cent, meaning that 300,000 people pay more than a quarter of the nation's income tax.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/26/nearly-half-of-britons-pay-no-income-tax-as-burden-on-rich-incre/

    * This is clearly wrong, as there aren't 60+ million working age adults in the UK (even with the dodgy government figures)

    That is an awful lot of people not particularly incentivised to vote for a party trying to restrict public spending.

    As they kept saying in Meet the Robinsons " I am not sure that this plan has been properly thought through ,"
    It obviously even worse, as a lot of those people will also be on tax credits.

    What it highlights to me is we clearly have far too many people being paid very little or not working, and there isn't an easy way to fix the former. Simply escalating minimum wage further won't do it. We have a huge structural imbalance, just as we do with service vs other sectors.

    Would be interesting to know wage distributions in Germany. I am presuming because of a much bigger [semi]-skilled manufacturing base, those people get paid reasonably well.
    Large parts of East Germany are depopulated because of the lack of well paying jobs. The government subsidies to try and create employment there are humongous
    I went to East Germany once, what a beep beep. Why anybody would want to go on a motorcycle holiday there is beyond me!
    I looked over the wall into it as a break from inspecting a Siemens factory.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited April 2016
    Charles said:

    Pop quiz PBers.

    Can you name the 3 Labour Prime Ministers who had the first name James.

    James Callaghan
    Gordon Brown
    Ramsey MacDonald
    James Scullion
    Hardie, MacDonald, Wilson, Brown.

    Callaghan's first name was Leonard....
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,797
    Indigo said:

    Almost half of Britons pay no income tax while the richest are now shouldering the biggest burden on record, a new analysis has found.

    The Institute for Fiscal Studies said that the proportion of working-age adults who do not pay income tax has risen from 34.3 per cent to 43.8 per cent, equivalent to 30million people*.

    This is idiocy, no wonder people believe in the magic money tree when they don't have to contribute to the costs of anything. If people don't pay at least a nominal amount into the running of the state, they have no appreciation for how well their money is being spent, why would they election politicians that spend the money wisely when it's other people's money.

    A "Tory" government pursuing this sort of policy is crazy, it means almost half the votes only see the downside of austerity, they don't pay any taxes so tax cuts don't mean anything to them, they just see they are getting less services. How do you interest a population in the value of being careful with the national bank balance when half of them are not footing the bill.

    Much as it pains me to say it, Gordon Brown was on the right track with his starting 10% tax rate, hell make it 5% if necessary, but at least that way people feel they are making a contribution to society, and have an interest in that contribution being used wisely.
    Everyone pays VAT. You're just thinking of income tax.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100



    Come June 23rd, we'll be able to share great tales of the stupidity of some voters on both sides.

    I am not waiting. :-)

    On the same day I also had one bloke trying to convince me that the EU was both a Nazi and a Soviet plot to subjugate Britain (not sure if he meant Britain alone or the whole of Europe including Britain).

    Trouble is with lots of other people around who clearly knew the bloke was talking balls you have to work out how to quietly get rid of him without a big argument in which you end up defending the EU.
    There is a small possibility that it started as a soviet plot to "Finlandize" western europe , but the eurocommunists and the socialists broke off from Moscow after the Prague Spring.
  • rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    Indigo said:

    Very interesting thanks.

    I am studying the local opinion polls here in the Philippines for the General election a week on Monday, it's it going to be fascinating to see how accurate it is, as you would think on the surface they have some almost insurmountable problems in getting a representative sample.

    A country of 100 million people, 54.5 million registered voters, encompassing an archipelago of some 7,641 islands. 25 million people and probably a third of the electorate live in the capital, with many more spread out amongst hundreds of small regional cities, but probably half the population living out in the "province" in small village settlements. Quite a few of those in the remotest areas won't have a television set themselves but will share one communally, and may only have 2-3 mobile phones in the extended family, and certainly won't have a landline or an internet connection. But civic pride is keenly felt, and most adults will vote.

    Don't forget that 10 years ago we didn't have smart phones, 20 years ago we didn't have the internet and 80 years ago we didn't have TV, let alone David Dimbleby or even his dad!

    But somehow or other we still managed to get by when General Elections came along.

    You'll be telling us life went on before the EU next. And who could believe that?
    Don't be stupid, there was no UK before the EU, merely a small barren island populated by a few starving savages
    In the 70s we were the sick man of Europe, we then joined the EC, and miraculously stopped being the sick man of Europe.

    Huzzah for the EC
    No we didn't. Even you are not dumb enough to believe that. We joined and remained the sick man of Europe until we elected a leader who was willing and able to deal with the issues. Being in the EEC at the time had Sweet FA to do with it.
    It was a joke, in response to DavidL's and Robert's joke.
    It is a claim that was repeated to me almost word for word when I was on a Leave stall in Newark a couple of weeks ago. Along with the idiocy that the EU prevented war in Europe.

    No claim is too dumb for some Remain supporters at the moment.
    Come June 23rd, we'll be able to share great tales of the stupidity of some voters on both sides.
    Maybe June 24th
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    0-0 a very good result for City I think, just need to avoid defeat in Madrid now. A tricky order, but they effectively have the draw working for them now.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Speedy said:

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    Almost half of Britons pay no income tax while the richest are now shouldering the biggest burden on record, a new analysis has found.

    The Institute for Fiscal Studies said that the proportion of working-age adults who do not pay income tax has risen from 34.3 per cent to 43.8 per cent, equivalent to 30million people*.

    Over the same period the amount of income tax paid by the richest 1 per cent has risen from 24.4 per cent to 27.5 per cent, meaning that 300,000 people pay more than a quarter of the nation's income tax.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/26/nearly-half-of-britons-pay-no-income-tax-as-burden-on-rich-incre/

    * This is clearly wrong, as there aren't 60+ million working age adults in the UK (even with the dodgy government figures)

    That is an awful lot of people not particularly incentivised to vote for a party trying to restrict public spending.

    As they kept saying in Meet the Robinsons " I am not sure that this plan has been properly thought through ,"
    It obviously even worse, as a lot of those people will also be on tax credits.

    What it highlights to me is we clearly have far too many people being paid very little or not working, and there isn't an easy way to fix the former. Simply escalating minimum wage further won't do it. We have a huge structural imbalance, just as we do with service vs other sectors.

    Would be interesting to know wage distributions in Germany. I am presuming because of a much bigger [semi]-skilled manufacturing base, those people get paid reasonably well.
    Large parts of East Germany are depopulated because of the lack of well paying jobs. The government subsidies to try and create employment there are humongous
    Large parts of East Germany are depopulated because they left for the west during the Cold War and just after the wall fell.
    The GDR lost 2 million people before the Berlin Wall was built if I remember correctly, that was the reason why it was built.
    I've spent time mosying around East German factories in the recent past. Just 'cos.

    Management complain about the lack of young people who want to stick around. They all head West to the cities
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    Great debut thread Pulpstar!
  • Maybe June 24th


    Mind you there'll be no exit poll, so we're going to have to wait for the first result declared to give us something concrete to talk about.
  • Pulpstar said:

    0-0 a very good result for City I think, just need to avoid defeat in Madrid now. A tricky order, but they effectively have the draw working for them now.

    Poor game - they both showed little flair and Ronaldo not playing was a big bonus for City. I would agree that any draw apart from 0-0 would see City through
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited April 2016
    Well so far the leaks from the media say that Indiana may not matter anymore due to Trump's strength tonight.

    No Exit Poll leaks yet.
  • MaxPB said:
    Everyone loves Grandpa Munster
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,938
    Speedy said:

    No Exit Poll leaks yet.

    I hope they tease the 'blonde news anchor' breakdown.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    DavidL said:

    LondonBob said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Trump to be interviewed by Megyn Kelly.

    Lol

    Scott Adams called it.

    http://blog.dilbert.com/post/143431313681/the-unfavorability-illusion
    That is a really good link. Spot on in my opinion (checks again slips for Trump for POTUS).
    Scott Adams called 2012 for Mitt Romney by a landslide IIRC.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Speedy said:

    Well so far the leaks from the media say that Indiana may not matter anymore due to Trump's strength tonight.

    No Exit Poll leaks yet.

    Indiana will definitely matter.

    Trump will go into CA knowing that 172 delegates would see him home and zero delegates would send him home.

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    Speedy said:

    Well so far the leaks from the media say that Indiana may not matter anymore due to Trump's strength tonight.

    No Exit Poll leaks yet.

    But i am tender hooks here waiting to find out how Korean lesiban vegans voted...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,938
    edited April 2016
    Speedy said:

    Hello Exit Poll leak:

    If Bernie wins Connecticut and maybe others he won't be able to suspend his campaign yet.

    It looks like Trump will have the nomination sewn up before Hillary.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    Daily mail have gone with front page of naz shah.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited April 2016
    More details:

    Steve Kornacki ‏@SteveKornacki 2m2 minutes ago

    PA Dem electorate:
    White 71%
    Black 17%
    Latino/Hispanic 9%
    Asian 1%

    Maryland Dem electorate:
    43% white
    46% black
    6% Latino/Hispanic
    2% Asian

    CT Dem electorate:
    76% white
    14% black
    7% Latino/Hispanic
    1% Asian

    Since Sanders is leading by 2.6% in Connecticut, Pennsylvania might have Hillary ahead by 3.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    SeanT said:

    Speedy said:
    Actually, yeah, that is good news. One of the major candidates for US prez says Obama is talking bollocks.

    Given that the narcissist wanker Obama is now as popular in the UK a dose of genital warts that's good for LEAVE.

    Has Obama put his Nobel Peace Prize in a museum yet? I'm trying to remember what he got it for?.

    Syria? Libya? Afghanistan? Anyone?
    I wonder what the idiots who awarded him that prize think. It was.bonker at the time, let alone on hindsight.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    Leave need to make sure Dan Hannan is centre stage in the TV debates.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,249
    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    LondonBob said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Trump to be interviewed by Megyn Kelly.

    Lol

    Scott Adams called it.

    http://blog.dilbert.com/post/143431313681/the-unfavorability-illusion
    That is a really good link. Spot on in my opinion (checks again slips for Trump for POTUS).
    Scott Adams called 2012 for Mitt Romney by a landslide IIRC.
    Spoilsport.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited April 2016
    Penn. GOP Exit poll:

    Who should be the nominee?

    Primary winner 70%
    Best Candidate 28%.

    Looks good for Trump.

    Candidate with most votes 69% (91% with Trump voters, 41% non Trump)
    Delegates choose 28%. (8% with Trump voters, 55% with non Trump)

    That doesn't look good for Trump.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited April 2016
    image
    "Justice is truth in action" - Disraeli
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    edited April 2016
    Right, I'm off to bed.

    Predictions:

    PA, Trump 56%, Cruz 20%, Kasich 24% (Trump wins 17/17)
    CT, Trump 58%, Cruz 16%, Kasich 24% (Trump wins all)
    RI, Trump 59%, Cruz 14%, Kasich 25% (Trump wins 10 [2+8])
    DE, Trump 60%, Cruz 18%, Kasich 19% (Trump wins)
    MD, Trump 49%, Cruz 23%, Kasich 25% (Trump to win all. I disagree with Pulps about geographic variability)

    Ergo a very good night for Mr Trump is on the cards. Indeed it would have to be a major upset not to be a very good victory on current polling.


  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Speedy said:

    Penn. GOP Exit poll:


    Candidate with most votes 69% (91% with Trump voters, 41% non Trump)
    Delegates choose 28%. (8% with Trump voters, 55% with non Trump)

    This amounts to an exit poll with Trump on 56% of the vote.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    SeanT said:

    Ouch. Naz Shah on the front page of the Mail. As an anti-Semite

    https://twitter.com/MediaGuido/status/725070323842994177

    Surely she cannot survive as an MP. If she does, then Labour will be damaged further

    It's the word "transportation" that does it. How can you possibly use that word in reference to moving Jews, without realising the evil connotations?

    Give over.

    Does that go for the Jews who were transported to Israel?
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Re. the income tax thing -

    In 1914 about 7% of the population paid income tax, less than 20% of workers did just before WWII
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    Speedy said:

    Penn. GOP Exit poll:


    Candidate with most votes 69% (91% with Trump voters, 41% non Trump)
    Delegates choose 28%. (8% with Trump voters, 55% with non Trump)

    This amounts to an exit poll with Trump on 56% of the vote.
    Correct.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,171

    twitter.com/suttonnick/status/725073901248778240

    I wonder what EU plot they are talking about?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,790
    So this is how it works from here: Spurs win no more games this season and finish 4th; City win the CL and Liverpool the UEFA Cup; Spurs miss out on CL qualification. The only way to stop this happening is for me to put a decent amount of money on it. I know my Spurs.
  • RobD said:

    twitter.com/suttonnick/status/725073901248778240

    I wonder what EU plot they are talking about?
    The tactics and strategy to ensure victory in the EUReferendum
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,171
    Speedy said:

    Hello Exit Poll leak:

    twitter.com/JamesByrde/status/725068942159548419

    Bad news for Hillary? She was down to win CT on 538.com.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited April 2016
    More from the Exit Polls:
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/live-republican-primary-exit-poll-analysis/story?id=38654929
    " Early deciders: Nearly six in 10 GOP primary voters across today’s primaries say they decided on their candidate more than a month ago, on pace to break the record of 55 percent in New York last week, and much more than the average in primaries to date. Trump has dominated among early deciders in previous contests. "
  • Anyhoo, the big story will be about what's not on the front page of The Sun.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,171

    RobD said:

    twitter.com/suttonnick/status/725073901248778240

    I wonder what EU plot they are talking about?
    The tactics and strategy to ensure victory in the EUReferendum
    Is this stuff that is required by law to be published after the campaign?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    He brought the house down. He was absolutely fantastic. Just listen to the cheers drowning him out as he speaks.

    Incidentally, Leave have started to listen to me: both Kate Hoey and Dan Hannan were using the own goals from Remain higher wages (Rose) and lower food prices (Ashdown) lines against them.

    At last.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,790
    Got to say I am very pleased it was Obama in the White House from 2009 and not John McCain. There was nothing inevitable about the global economy not going into a complete death spiral after the crash.
  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    twitter.com/suttonnick/status/725073901248778240

    I wonder what EU plot they are talking about?
    The tactics and strategy to ensure victory in the EUReferendum
    Is this stuff that is required by law to be published after the campaign?
    Yup
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270
    Speedy said:

    Not another "Tuesday".
    At least it's not "Super Tuesday IV" like on CNN.

    Super is not as super as it used to be....
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    LondonBob said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Trump to be interviewed by Megyn Kelly.

    Lol

    Scott Adams called it.

    http://blog.dilbert.com/post/143431313681/the-unfavorability-illusion
    That is a really good link. Spot on in my opinion (checks again slips for Trump for POTUS).
    Scott Adams called 2012 for Mitt Romney by a landslide IIRC.
    Spoilsport.
    He also called 2008 for McCain.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    RobD said:

    twitter.com/suttonnick/status/725073901248778240

    I wonder what EU plot they are talking about?
    The tactics and strategy to ensure victory in the EUReferendum
    No secret to anyone with a brain what Remain are doing.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,171

    Anyhoo, the big story will be about what's not on the front page of The Sun.

    I doubt there is anything they could do to redeem themselves on that front. Still, not mentioning at all seems a bit like sticking your head in the sand.
  • Christ, I've just unrepressed Superman IV: The Quest for Peace.

    With Nuclear fecking Man
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,790
    No mention of Hillsbrough on the Sun front page then.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    If Naz Shah resigns it'll be another opportunity for Galloway to return to parliament as MP for Bradford West.
  • RobD said:

    twitter.com/suttonnick/status/725073901248778240

    I wonder what EU plot they are talking about?
    The tactics and strategy to ensure victory in the EUReferendum
    No secret to anyone with a brain what Remain are doing.
    Project Fact and The Long Term Economic Plan
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    Christ, I've just unrepressed Superman IV: The Quest for Peace.

    With Nuclear fecking Man

    Lol!

    When I was about ten Superman III was probably my favourite film, despite being absolutely terrified by the scene where the supercomputer turns the woman into an evil robot.

    Saw it again last year and realised how truly awful it was.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Got to say I am very pleased it was Obama in the White House from 2009 and not John McCain. There was nothing inevitable about the global economy not going into a complete death spiral after the crash.

    Paulson did a decent job, although he was too close to Goldman for decency
  • Christ, I've just unrepressed Superman IV: The Quest for Peace.

    With Nuclear fecking Man

    Lol!

    When I was about ten Superman III was probably my favourite film, despite being absolutely terrified by the scene where the supercomputer turns the woman into an evil robot.

    Saw it again last year and realised how truly awful it was.
    Superman II for me
  • DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    SeanT said:

    The Naz Shah story perpetuates a toxic narrative for Labour.

    I don't for a second believe that 1% of white British Labour voters are anti-Semitic. It just doesn't exist in their core vote, or their wider British vote.

    But the Labour PARTY is now infested with anti-Semitism. And the vector is: Islam.

    they are becoming a Muslim only brand Suits decent parties.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    RobD said:

    twitter.com/suttonnick/status/725073901248778240

    I wonder what EU plot they are talking about?
    The tactics and strategy to ensure victory in the EUReferendum
    No secret to anyone with a brain what Remain are doing.
    Project Fact and The Long Term Economic Plan
    Pah.

    Listen to Dan Hannan's Project Inspiration and The Long Term British Plan.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663

    Anyhoo, the big story will be about what's not on the front page of The Sun.

    I think David Herdson earlier today had a point on some of the points he made wrt the outcome.

    But the Sun's headline was clearly disgraceful. They could have done well to just print.,. "sorry"
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited April 2016
    PA GOP exit, If person X is the nominee:

    Trump
    Definitely vote for: 56%
    Probably vote for: 20
    Not vote for: 22

    Cruz
    Def 25%
    Prob 36%
    Not 37%

    This tells me that Trump should be around 50% in Pennsylvania.
    Cruz at mid 20's.

    Why is there a NeverTrump but not a NeverCruz ?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    Good evening.
    It looks like The Donald will win all 5 states tonight. Being tired I'll peruse the results tomorrow morning.
    https://twitter.com/FiveThirtyEight/status/725076121751015425
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    SeanT said:

    The Naz Shah story perpetuates a toxic narrative for Labour.

    I don't for a second believe that 1% of white British Labour voters are anti-Semitic. It just doesn't exist in their core vote, or their wider British vote.

    But the Labour PARTY is now infested with anti-Semitism. And the vector is: Islam.

    At what point does a party infested with anti-Semites become an anti-Semitic party?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,390

    Anyhoo, the big story will be about what's not on the front page of The Sun.

    Nor on the front page of The Times.
    A coincidence I'm sure.
This discussion has been closed.