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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The IN lead drops by 4% in the first published poll since t

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  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,871
    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Dixie said:

    MikeK said:

    OFF Thread.

    Corbyn due for a thrashing?
    https://twitter.com/MikkiL/status/724778237759492096

    It is the projected national share that is really interesting, not the headline grabbing seat change from the heady days post-Omnishambles budget.
    All will depend on turnout and regional variances. That said, these geezers have proper data. If anybody knows, they do. On the streets, Labour certainly doing less than 4 years ago. But, with Cameron screwing the Tories, it is hard to say what the outcome will be. Libs confident off a slight push upwards, 1 or 2 %. Labour probably braced for small losses.
    Lib up 1 or 2% on when? The LDs NEV in 2012 was 16%:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_local_elections,_2012
    I know some very esteemed psephologists disagree, but I think comparing the NEV to 2011 is more correct than 2012.

    For then you get 2011 -> 16; 12 -> 17; 13 -> 18 14 -> 19.; 15 -> 20

    If you carry on with 4 yr local cycles and 5 year GE cycles then you end up with 2015 -> 19 (Which compares a GE year to a non GE).

    The picture isn't good for Labour however you look at it though.
    In terms of the parliamentary cycle, that's fair enough. But in gains and losses - which is where the headline will be - 2012 is the right comparison. Also, using 2012 means you're comparing like-with-like in terms of *which* seats and councils were contested.
    Given that Labour gained over 800 seats in 2012, seeing 170 of them reversed would - in reality - be no big deal.
    Because 2012 was a precursor to a Labour victory in the next GE right? A real high point?
    N0- that is a non sequitur. There is no direct relationship between local election results and the following General Election - eg Labour did badly at the 1960 and 1961 elections but still went on to win the 1964 General Election. On the other hand, Labour did well at the May 1970 local elections but then lost the General Election a month later!
    Local election results are usually a good pointer to the next general election. Generally speaking, the Opposition need to be a long way ahead of the Government to be in with a chance at the next general election. Labour did quite well in May 1970, but they took an absolute hammering in 1967-1969.

  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Indigo said:


    "harmonisation in the field of social security and social protection" still requires unanimity.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_in_the_Council_of_the_European_Union#Policy_areas
    From your own link:

    Certain policy fields remain subject to unanimity in whole or in part, such as:

    membership of the Union (opening of accession negotiations, association, serious violations of the Union's values, etc.);
    change the status of an overseas country or territory (OCT) to an outermost region (OMR) or vice versa.[26]
    taxation;
    the finances of the Union (own resources, the multiannual financial framework);
    harmonisation in the field of social security and social protection;


    So the finances of the Union and harmonisation of social security are both listed as requiring unanimity.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,871
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Some more priceless quotes from the day Obama won it for REMAIN

    Roger Posts: 5,054
    April 22
    As celebrity endorsements go they don't get much better. An expert testimony as well

    bigjohnowls Posts: 6,205
    April 22
    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 27s28 seconds ago
    The big winner today Cameron. The big loser Boris

    Richard_Nabavi Posts: 10,443
    April 22
    I do love this argument that Cameron getting Obama to agree with him is demeaning to Cameron. Bravo!

    :lol:
    There's lots of GLORIOUS comments in that thread from Messrs Nabavi and Meeks saying how brilliant the REMAIN campaign is, and how useless LEAVE.

    So brilliant the Prime Minister demeans himself in front of the country on live TV, fawns over a US president who has just insulted us, and at the same time uses up his biggest possible endorsement for REMAIN - and then sees REMAIN going backwards in the polls, as a result of his brilliant efforts.

    That's how "brilliant" the REMAIN campaign is. CHORTLE.
    Only two polls since the Obama comments. Let's see what the rest say.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,364
    edited April 2016


    I am confused. Doesn't this show a significant benefit of EU membership. Our universities - among our greatest and most internationally=-renowned institutions - have been able to get long-term loans from the EIB at preferential rates. That's good, isn't it? And, as a result, it's not a great surprise that Oxford likes the EU. It's not claiming to be impartial, is it?

    If we didn't give £1.7bn to the EU last year we could have given some of it to Oxford, no need for a loan
    £8.5bn given to the EU, net.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    A great polling divide this time seems to be some pollsters downweighting Remain (due to certainty to vote and age etc) and one pollster downweighting Leave (due to demographics).

    It will be interesting to see which pollster is right.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,941


    I am confused. Doesn't this show a significant benefit of EU membership. Our universities - among our greatest and most internationally=-renowned institutions - have been able to get long-term loans from the EIB at preferential rates. That's good, isn't it? And, as a result, it's not a great surprise that Oxford likes the EU. It's not claiming to be impartial, is it?

    If we didn't give £1.7bn to the EU last year we could have given some of it to Oxford, no need for a loan
    £8.5bn given to the EU, net.

    I thought that was going to the NHS.

  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,364


    I am confused. Doesn't this show a significant benefit of EU membership. Our universities - among our greatest and most internationally=-renowned institutions - have been able to get long-term loans from the EIB at preferential rates. That's good, isn't it? And, as a result, it's not a great surprise that Oxford likes the EU. It's not claiming to be impartial, is it?

    If we didn't give £1.7bn to the EU last year we could have given some of it to Oxford, no need for a loan
    £8.5bn given to the EU, net.

    I thought that was going to the NHS.

    https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,760
    edited April 2016

    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Dixie said:

    MikeK said:

    OFF Thread.

    Corbyn due for a thrashing?
    https://twitter.com/MikkiL/status/724778237759492096

    It is the projected national share that is really interesting, not the headline grabbing seat change from the heady days post-Omnishambles budget.
    All will depend on turnout and regional variances. That said, these geezers have proper data. If anybody knows, they do. On the streets, Labour certainly doing less than 4 years ago. But, with Cameron screwing the Tories, it is hard to say what the outcome will be. Libs confident off a slight push upwards, 1 or 2 %. Labour probably braced for small losses.
    Lib up 1 or 2% on when? The LDs NEV in 2012 was 16%:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_local_elections,_2012
    I know some very esteemed psephologists disagree, but I think comparing the NEV to 2011 is more correct than 2012.

    For then you get 2011 -> 16; 12 -> 17; 13 -> 18 14 -> 19.; 15 -> 20

    If you carry on with 4 yr local cycles and 5 year GE cycles then you end up with 2015 -> 19 (Which compares a GE year to a non GE).

    The picture isn't good for Labour however you look at it though.
    In terms of the parliamentary cycle, that's fair enough. But in gains and losses - which is where the headline will be - 2012 is the right comparison. Also, using 2012 means you're comparing like-with-like in terms of *which* seats and councils were contested.
    Given that Labour gained over 800 seats in 2012, seeing 170 of them reversed would - in reality - be no big deal.
    Such inspiring confidence in the Hard Left leadership!
    ICYMI :lol:

    https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/723505888670171137
    Why can't we just dermolish this dumpand build something useful on the site like a steel mill or a van plant ?
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,871
    Maybe she intended that to be a compliment.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,502
    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    Some more priceless quotes from the day Obama won it for REMAIN

    Roger Posts: 5,054
    April 22
    As celebrity endorsements go they don't get much better. An expert testimony as well

    bigjohnowls Posts: 6,205
    April 22
    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 27s28 seconds ago
    The big winner today Cameron. The big loser Boris

    Richard_Nabavi Posts: 10,443
    April 22
    I do love this argument that Cameron getting Obama to agree with him is demeaning to Cameron. Bravo!

    :lol:
    There's lots of GLORIOUS comments in that thread from Messrs Nabavi and Meeks saying how brilliant the REMAIN campaign is, and how useless LEAVE.

    So brilliant the Prime Minister demeans himself in front of the country on live TV, fawns over a US president who has just insulted us, and at the same time uses up his biggest possible endorsement for REMAIN - and then sees REMAIN going backwards in the polls, as a result of his brilliant efforts.

    That's how "brilliant" the REMAIN campaign is. CHORTLE.
    Only two polls since the Obama comments. Let's see what the rest say.
    And I'm not sure if I believe them.

    Nevertheless, you'd have to have a heart of stone not to enjoy the PB Remains having their noses rubbed in it a bit.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Sean_F said:

    justin124 said:

    justin124 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Dixie said:

    MikeK said:

    OFF Thread.


    All will depend on turnout and regional variances. That said, these geezers have proper data. If anybody knows, they do. On the streets, Labour certainly doing less than 4 years ago. But, with Cameron screwing the Tories, it is hard to say what the outcome will be. Libs confident off a slight push upwards, 1 or 2 %. Labour probably braced for small losses.

    Lib up 1 or 2% on when? The LDs NEV in 2012 was 16%:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_local_elections,_2012
    I know some very esteemed psephologists disagree, but I think comparing the NEV to 2011 is more correct than 2012.

    For then you get 2011 -> 16; 12 -> 17; 13 -> 18 14 -> 19.; 15 -> 20

    If you carry on with 4 yr local cycles and 5 year GE cycles then you end up with 2015 -> 19 (Which compares a GE year to a non GE).

    The picture isn't good for Labour however you look at it though.
    In terms of the parliamentary cycle, that's fair enough. But in gains and losses - which is where the headline will be - 2012 is the right comparison. Also, using 2012 means you're comparing like-with-like in terms of *which* seats and councils were contested.
    Given that Labour gained over 800 seats in 2012, seeing 170 of them reversed would - in reality - be no big deal.
    Because 2012 was a precursor to a Labour victory in the next GE right? A real high point?
    N0- that is a non sequitur. There is no direct relationship between local election results and the following General Election - eg Labour did badly at the 1960 and 1961 elections but still went on to win the 1964 General Election. On the other hand, Labour did well at the May 1970 local elections but then lost the General Election a month later!
    Local election results are usually a good pointer to the next general election. Generally speaking, the Opposition need to be a long way ahead of the Government to be in with a chance at the next general election. Labour did quite well in May 1970, but they took an absolute hammering in 1967-1969.

    Indeed so - but if good results a mere five weeks before a general election offer a poor guide - as in 1970 - it is unlikely that they are particularly revealing in relation to a general election several years later. As another example, Labour did exceptionally well at the 1971 local elections but still went on to lose the popular vote at the February 1974 election!
  • Options
    DanSmithDanSmith Posts: 1,215

    Just before I go out canvassing, these are the numbers Leave need to change if they want to win

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/724959407134617600

    What are these numbers for people who are certain to vote.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,502


    I am confused. Doesn't this show a significant benefit of EU membership. Our universities - among our greatest and most internationally=-renowned institutions - have been able to get long-term loans from the EIB at preferential rates. That's good, isn't it? And, as a result, it's not a great surprise that Oxford likes the EU. It's not claiming to be impartial, is it?

    If we didn't give £1.7bn to the EU last year we could have given some of it to Oxford, no need for a loan
    £8.5bn given to the EU, net.

    I thought that was going to the NHS.

    Be quicker to just burn it surely.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,457

    A great polling divide this time seems to be some pollsters downweighting Remain (due to certainty to vote and age etc) and one pollster downweighting Leave (due to demographics).

    It will be interesting to see which pollster is right.
    A dead heat until near enough the last two weeks, with the campaigns making little difference, and a 4-5% swing to Remain on the day?

    If the Leave campaign steps up, then a 54-46% result to Remain feels about right to me.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Indeed so - but if good results a mere five weeks before a general election offer a poor guide - as in 1970 - it is unlikely that they are particularly revealing in relation to a general election several years later. As another example, Labour did exceptionally well at the 1971 local elections but still went on to lose the popular vote at the February 1974 election!
  • Options
    MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Dixie said:

    MikeK said:

    OFF Thread.

    Corbyn due for a thrashing?
    https://twitter.com/MikkiL/status/724778237759492096

    It is the projected national share that is really interesting, not the headline grabbing seat change from the heady days post-Omnishambles budget.
    All will depend on turnout and regional variances. That said, these geezers have proper data. If anybody knows, they do. On the streets, Labour certainly doing less than 4 years ago. But, with Cameron screwing the Tories, it is hard to say what the outcome will be. Libs confident off a slight push upwards, 1 or 2 %. Labour probably braced for small losses.
    Lib up 1 or 2% on when? The LDs NEV in 2012 was 16%:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_local_elections,_2012
    I know some very esteemed psephologists disagree, but I think comparing the NEV to 2011 is more correct than 2012.

    For then you get 2011 -> 16; 12 -> 17; 13 -> 18 14 -> 19.; 15 -> 20

    If you carry on with 4 yr local cycles and 5 year GE cycles then you end up with 2015 -> 19 (Which compares a GE year to a non GE).

    The picture isn't good for Labour however you look at it though.
    In terms of the parliamentary cycle, that's fair enough. But in gains and losses - which is where the headline will be - 2012 is the right comparison. Also, using 2012 means you're comparing like-with-like in terms of *which* seats and councils were contested.
    Given that Labour gained over 800 seats in 2012, seeing 170 of them reversed would - in reality - be no big deal.
    Such inspiring confidence in the Hard Left leadership!
    ICYMI :lol:

    https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/723505888670171137
    Why can't we just dermolish this dumpand build something useful on the site like a steel mill or a van plant ?

    You want to demolish the Bodleian library ?

  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,941
    Indigo said:


    I am confused. Doesn't this show a significant benefit of EU membership. Our universities - among our greatest and most internationally=-renowned institutions - have been able to get long-term loans from the EIB at preferential rates. That's good, isn't it? And, as a result, it's not a great surprise that Oxford likes the EU. It's not claiming to be impartial, is it?

    If you say so. The problem with loans is they can always ask for their money back if you aren't appropriately supportive, rather like an EU Pension.

    I'd be very surprised if that were the case.

  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,892
    Dixie said:

    I feel guilty bringing up the 5th May elections, when all are talking about the referendum. Anyway, news on the streets of Wales and London is that UKIP will do better than polls. Might mean an extra seat or two in Wales and a London-wide Assembly member in London, at a stretch 2!

    Lib Dems are having a good campaign in terms of policies and organisations but no one trusts them! You may already know that.

    Labour say Khan is almost certain to be Mayor - '100%' is their view. mmm, let's hope not. Labour chaps say there is some gossip about him, not extremist led, that may leak!

    More Tories on the ground than Labour in London. Opposite of GE.

    Personally, it would be interesting to see who tops the mini-battle of Mayoral candidates between Greens (she's lovely), Lib Dems (automaton) and UKIP (surprising pleasant). I think UKIP might clinch it.

    Lastly, Galloway is bombing. Does he have any juice left in the tank? No one thinks so, but he is an unexploded bomb!

    Sorry, to bother you with all this.

    I remember you had one of those nod nod wink wink bits of inside info about Ed before the last election. Did it ever happen?
  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited April 2016

    Oh my word

    ttps://twitter.com/dbbaye/status/724976099998982146

    I’ve just read that the Bradford MP Naz Shah has quit as McDonnell's PPS, how long before the Labour party expells this nasty anti-Semite? - answers on a post card...!
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,660
    If only the voters would listen to the PB Pandits people wouldn't have comments being thrown back to make them look like numpties. (I know I'm not immune)
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited April 2016
    Ouch. You know your career is over when even Guardian writers turn on you:

    https://twitter.com/MarinaHyde/status/724941587285942272
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited April 2016
    perdix said:

    I do not think Obama in the short term has helped remain and he repeated it in Europe to Europe. I do believe Boris’s ill judged comments angered him and maybe led to his onslaught and probably surprised David Cameron. Longer term it adds to the narrative for remain but there are many issues that play into each argument. The single market and security play well for remain but immigration, as long as it is not overdone as Obama, is good for leave as is TTIP. I am for remain and genuinely believe it is the best answer for the UK but I equally see and indeed share many of leave’s arguments. I hope that it is a modest positive remain vote but absolutely want leave to do well enough to demonstrate to the EU that that their voice, together with many others will be heard throughout the peoples of Europe, and that there will be a real eurosceptic move against the eurocrats from within the 28 Nations. I am content to accept the vote either way and hope those on both sides can be reconciled to work together for democratic change either from within or without the EU. Separately may I say how wonderful it is to see the joy and relief from the Hillsborough families and trust that manslaughter charges will follow? I assume the ‘Sun’ tomorrow will have a front page apology from Kelvin McKenzie and Boris will no doubt issue a similar public apology. The verdict will hopefully give the families some closure and that they can live their lives knowing that their cause has been absolutely vindicated

    I confess that I have limited knowledge of the Hillsborough disaster but I am surprised by the finding that the actions of the fans played no part.

    The police, due to systematic failure on their part with a total lack of leadership, failed to steward the crowds prior to the turnstiles. This created a crush. To relieve the crush the police opened an exit gate. This created a crush in the pens from which there was no way to relieve the crush. People died.

    And as this happened the police lied and lied and lied. They lied as it happened, they lied for years afterwards.

    They were at fault.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited April 2016
    SeanT said:


    I made my remark on April 22nd. You made yours on April 25th, by which time we already had polling evidence, from Sky, that Obama's intervention had backfired. You were just backpedalling hastily.

    CHORTLE

    Here's what you said on April 22nd:

    "Richard_Nabavi Posts: 10,444
    April 22

    This is an impressive campaign from REMAIN however you look at it. That's why there's so much incoherent squealing from the Leave side, although it's baffling to me that they are surprised either by the nature or the intensity of the Remain campaign."

    Poppycock. I'd made a similar point earlier.

    And, yes of course this is an impressive campaign from the Remain side. No one seriously disputes that, do they? And the Obama intervention certainly torpedoed Leave's free-trade-deal fantasy.

    But go on. I love the groupthink here. It helps keep political betting profitable. If you could manage to wank yourselves towards making the odds even, I'd be very grateful.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,892

    I’ve just read that the Bradford MP Naz Shah has quit as McDonnell's PPS, how long before the Labour party expells this nasty anti-Semite? - answers on a post card...!
    She wouldn't be the first who thinks Israel is an apartheid state. In fact it might well be a majority view. It certainly is among it's Arab neigbours
  • Options
    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @SouthamObserver


    'Immigration is the ultimate fear card, isn't it? Immigrants are taking our jobs, pushing down our wages, claiming our generous benefits, making our housing more expensive, putting our public services under unbearable pressure and changing the cultural and social fabric of our country. It's an immensely powerful message and very hard to counter.'


    Nope, it's the ultimate reality card,it's what voters have actually experienced over the past 20 years and according to polls their number one concern.

  • Options
    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited April 2016
    Roger said:

    Oh my word

    ttps://twitter.com/dbbaye/status/724976099998982146

    I’ve just read that the Bradford MP Naz Shah has quit as McDonnell's PPS, how long before the Labour party expells this nasty anti-Semite? - answers on a post card...!
    She wouldn't be the first who thinks Israel is an apartheid state. In fact it might well be a majority view. It certainly is among it's Arab neigbours
    Israel's Arab neigbours want it wiped off the face of the earth - is this also Labour policy?
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,760

    Mortimer said:

    justin124 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Dixie said:

    MikeK said:

    OFF Thread.

    Corbyn due for a thrashing?
    https://twitter.com/MikkiL/status/724778237759492096

    It is the projected national share that is really interesting, not the headline grabbing seat change from the heady days post-Omnishambles budget.
    All will depend on turnout and regional variances. That said, these geezers have proper data. If anybody knows, they do. On the streets, Labour certainly doing less than 4 years ago. But, with Cameron screwing the Tories, it is hard to say what the outcome will be. Libs confident off a slight push upwards, 1 or 2 %. Labour probably braced for small losses.
    Lib up 1 or 2% on when? The LDs NEV in 2012 was 16%:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_local_elections,_2012
    I know some very esteemed psephologists disagree, but I think comparing the NEV to 2011 is more correct than 2012.

    For then you get 2011 -> 16; 12 -> 17; 13 -> 18 14 -> 19.; 15 -> 20

    If you carry on with 4 yr local cycles and 5 year GE cycles then you end up with 2015 -> 19 (Which compares a GE year to a non GE).

    The picture isn't good for Labour however you look at it though.
    In terms of the parliamentary cycle, that's fair enough. But in gains and losses - which is where the headline will be - 2012 is the right comparison. Also, using 2012 means you're comparing like-with-like in terms of *which* seats and councils were contested.
    Given that Labour gained over 800 seats in 2012, seeing 170 of them reversed would - in reality - be no big deal.
    Such inspiring confidence in the Hard Left leadership!
    ICYMI :lol:

    https://twitter.com/StrongerIn/status/723505888670171137
    Why can't we just dermolish this dumpand build something useful on the site like a steel mill or a van plant ?

    You want to demolish the Bodleian library ?

    Nah move the place.

    Hull would make a nice home for it.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,898
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Trump calls Hillary "crooked" and wants to beat her "bigly".
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/36136480

    Trump is going to be calling Hilary out as crooked, corrupt and in the pay of the 1% every day from now until November. It's going to be a very nasty campaign indeed.
    Trump's made campaign contributions to all and sundry in the past, he is poacher turned gamekeeper on this one.
    Goodness knows I don't support the man, but I'd have thought sometimes former poachers make very good gamekeepers.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,457

    SeanT said:


    I made my remark on April 22nd. You made yours on April 25th, by which time we already had polling evidence, from Sky, that Obama's intervention had backfired. You were just backpedalling hastily.

    CHORTLE

    Here's what you said on April 22nd:

    "Richard_Nabavi Posts: 10,444
    April 22

    This is an impressive campaign from REMAIN however you look at it. That's why there's so much incoherent squealing from the Leave side, although it's baffling to me that they are surprised either by the nature or the intensity of the Remain campaign."

    Poppycock. I'd made a similar point earlier.

    And, yes of course this is an impressive campaign from the Remain side. No one seriously disputes that, do they? And the Obama intervention certainly torpedoed Leave's free-trade-deal fantasy.

    But go on. I love the groupthink here. It helps keep political betting profitable. If you could manage to wank yourselves towards making the odds even, I'd be very grateful.
    Loooooooool!!!!!
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,871
    Roger said:

    I’ve just read that the Bradford MP Naz Shah has quit as McDonnell's PPS, how long before the Labour party expells this nasty anti-Semite? - answers on a post card...!
    She wouldn't be the first who thinks Israel is an apartheid state. In fact it might well be a majority view. It certainly is among it's Arab neigbours
    Well, its Arab neighbours are hardly in a position to cast stones. It's the presence of Jews there that's their main grievance.
  • Options
    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Roger

    'She wouldn't be the first who thinks Israel is an apartheid state. In fact it might well be a majority view. It certainly is among it's Arab neigbours'


    The same Arab neighbours that operate as apartheid states in terms of how Sunni / Shias are treated in their countries.?
  • Options

    SeanT said:


    I made my remark on April 22nd. You made yours on April 25th, by which time we already had polling evidence, from Sky, that Obama's intervention had backfired. You were just backpedalling hastily.

    CHORTLE

    Here's what you said on April 22nd:

    "Richard_Nabavi Posts: 10,444
    April 22

    This is an impressive campaign from REMAIN however you look at it. That's why there's so much incoherent squealing from the Leave side, although it's baffling to me that they are surprised either by the nature or the intensity of the Remain campaign."

    Poppycock. I'd made a similar point earlier.

    And, yes of course this is an impressive campaign from the Remain side. No one seriously disputes that, do they? And the Obama intervention certainly torpedoed Leave's free-trade-deal fantasy.

    But go on. I love the groupthink here. It helps keep political betting profitable. If you could manage to wank yourselves towards making the odds even, I'd be very grateful.
    Oh my word, Richard Nabavi just used the word wank, to SeanT.

    I don't think I'll ever recover from this.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,760

    SeanT said:


    I made my remark on April 22nd. You made yours on April 25th, by which time we already had polling evidence, from Sky, that Obama's intervention had backfired. You were just backpedalling hastily.

    CHORTLE

    Here's what you said on April 22nd:

    "Richard_Nabavi Posts: 10,444
    April 22

    This is an impressive campaign from REMAIN however you look at it. That's why there's so much incoherent squealing from the Leave side, although it's baffling to me that they are surprised either by the nature or the intensity of the Remain campaign."

    Poppycock. I'd made a similar point earlier.

    And, yes of course this is an impressive campaign from the Remain side. No one seriously disputes that, do they? And the Obama intervention certainly torpedoed Leave's free-trade-deal fantasy.

    But go on. I love the groupthink here. It helps keep political betting profitable. If you could manage to wank yourselves towards making the odds even, I'd be very grateful.
    Could I offer you a hand with that ?
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,892
    edited April 2016

    Roger said:

    Oh my word

    ttps://twitter.com/dbbaye/status/724976099998982146

    I’ve just read that the Bradford MP Naz Shah has quit as McDonnell's PPS, how long before the Labour party expells this nasty anti-Semite? - answers on a post card...!
    She wouldn't be the first who thinks Israel is an apartheid state. In fact it might well be a majority view. It certainly is among it's Arab neigbours
    Israel's Arab neigbours want it wiped off the face of the earth - is this also Labour policy?
    The view that it's an apartheid state goes much wider than it's Arab neigbours. It's odd that I as a Jew have a right to return even though I've never been there but a non Jew can't even live there if that's where they were born. It's very similar to the Land Acts in apartheid South Africa.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    Oh my word, Richard Nabavi just used the word wank, to SeanT.

    I don't think I'll ever recover from this.

    Are you sitting down? (You might want to hold on to the table and have some smelling salts at the ready as well.)

    On Sunday evening I am going to be making my debut at the Mayfield Festival as a rap artist:

    http://www.mayfieldfestival.co.uk/events/erik-satie-vexations-revisited/

    PBers welcome!
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,951

    SeanT said:


    I made my remark on April 22nd. You made yours on April 25th, by which time we already had polling evidence, from Sky, that Obama's intervention had backfired. You were just backpedalling hastily.

    CHORTLE

    Here's what you said on April 22nd:

    "Richard_Nabavi Posts: 10,444
    April 22

    This is an impressive campaign from REMAIN however you look at it. That's why there's so much incoherent squealing from the Leave side, although it's baffling to me that they are surprised either by the nature or the intensity of the Remain campaign."

    Poppycock. I'd made a similar point earlier.

    And, yes of course this is an impressive campaign from the Remain side. No one seriously disputes that, do they? And the Obama intervention certainly torpedoed Leave's free-trade-deal fantasy.

    But go on. I love the groupthink here. It helps keep political betting profitable. If you could manage to wank yourselves towards making the odds even, I'd be very grateful.
    Oh my word, Richard Nabavi just used the word wank, to SeanT.

    I don't think I'll ever recover from this.
    R_N is rattled.

    The private polling must be dreadful.

    It is going to be an awful night for the Tories.....
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536

    SeanT said:


    I made my remark on April 22nd. You made yours on April 25th, by which time we already had polling evidence, from Sky, that Obama's intervention had backfired. You were just backpedalling hastily.

    CHORTLE

    Here's what you said on April 22nd:

    "Richard_Nabavi Posts: 10,444
    April 22

    This is an impressive campaign from REMAIN however you look at it. That's why there's so much incoherent squealing from the Leave side, although it's baffling to me that they are surprised either by the nature or the intensity of the Remain campaign."

    Poppycock. I'd made a similar point earlier.

    And, yes of course this is an impressive campaign from the Remain side. No one seriously disputes that, do they? And the Obama intervention certainly torpedoed Leave's free-trade-deal fantasy.

    But go on. I love the groupthink here. It helps keep political betting profitable. If you could manage to wank yourselves towards making the odds even, I'd be very grateful.
    Settle down Richard, the nurse will along in a minute
  • Options
    weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    DanSmith said:

    Just before I go out canvassing, these are the numbers Leave need to change if they want to win

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/724959407134617600

    What are these numbers for people who are certain to vote.
    The Economy is REMAIN's one asset. Get rid of that and the dam will break.

    If.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,848
    edited April 2016
    Interetsing poll.

    Maybe Cameron went too far when he got a foreign leader to fly in and threaten the British people in their own country?

    #TreacherousDave
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    runnymede said:

    SeanT said:


    I made my remark on April 22nd. You made yours on April 25th, by which time we already had polling evidence, from Sky, that Obama's intervention had backfired. You were just backpedalling hastily.

    CHORTLE

    Here's what you said on April 22nd:

    "Richard_Nabavi Posts: 10,444
    April 22

    This is an impressive campaign from REMAIN however you look at it. That's why there's so much incoherent squealing from the Leave side, although it's baffling to me that they are surprised either by the nature or the intensity of the Remain campaign."

    Poppycock. I'd made a similar point earlier.

    And, yes of course this is an impressive campaign from the Remain side. No one seriously disputes that, do they? And the Obama intervention certainly torpedoed Leave's free-trade-deal fantasy.

    But go on. I love the groupthink here. It helps keep political betting profitable. If you could manage to wank yourselves towards making the odds even, I'd be very grateful.
    Settle down Richard, the nurse will along in a minute
    Lol.

    Seeing as Richard is around I wonder if he will be able to confirm if we paid the £1.7bn bill to the EU in full...
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited April 2016
    MP_SE said:

    Lol.

    Seeing as Richard is around I wonder if he will be able to confirm if we paid the £1.7bn bill to the EU in full...

    No we didn't, we got a rebate on it.

    Next.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,892

    SeanT said:


    I made my remark on April 22nd. You made yours on April 25th, by which time we already had polling evidence, from Sky, that Obama's intervention had backfired. You were just backpedalling hastily.

    CHORTLE

    Here's what you said on April 22nd:

    "Richard_Nabavi Posts: 10,444
    April 22

    This is an impressive campaign from REMAIN however you look at it. That's why there's so much incoherent squealing from the Leave side, although it's baffling to me that they are surprised either by the nature or the intensity of the Remain campaign."

    Poppycock. I'd made a similar point earlier.

    And, yes of course this is an impressive campaign from the Remain side. No one seriously disputes that, do they? And the Obama intervention certainly torpedoed Leave's free-trade-deal fantasy.

    But go on. I love the groupthink here. It helps keep political betting profitable. If you could manage to wank yourselves towards making the odds even, I'd be very grateful.
    Oh my word, Richard Nabavi just used the word wank, to SeanT.

    I don't think I'll ever recover from this.
    I think it's a typo. He meant to type 'yank'
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,871

    SeanT said:


    I made my remark on April 22nd. You made yours on April 25th, by which time we already had polling evidence, from Sky, that Obama's intervention had backfired. You were just backpedalling hastily.

    CHORTLE

    Here's what you said on April 22nd:

    "Richard_Nabavi Posts: 10,444
    April 22

    This is an impressive campaign from REMAIN however you look at it. That's why there's so much incoherent squealing from the Leave side, although it's baffling to me that they are surprised either by the nature or the intensity of the Remain campaign."

    Poppycock. I'd made a similar point earlier.

    And, yes of course this is an impressive campaign from the Remain side. No one seriously disputes that, do they? And the Obama intervention certainly torpedoed Leave's free-trade-deal fantasy.

    But go on. I love the groupthink here. It helps keep political betting profitable. If you could manage to wank yourselves towards making the odds even, I'd be very grateful.
    There's no doubt that the Remain campaign is very well-organised and efficient (far more so than the Leave campaign).

    But, it your message is unattractive, then good organisation and efficiency may not do you much good. And, the Remain message is unappealing. It's declinist. It promotes the view that foreigners will do beastly things to us if we leave the EU and there's nothing we can do about it. That may be true, but it's not going to be welcomed by many voters.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,502
    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    I’ve just read that the Bradford MP Naz Shah has quit as McDonnell's PPS, how long before the Labour party expells this nasty anti-Semite? - answers on a post card...!
    She wouldn't be the first who thinks Israel is an apartheid state. In fact it might well be a majority view. It certainly is among it's Arab neigbours
    Well, its Arab neighbours are hardly in a position to cast stones. It's the presence of Jews there that's their main grievance.
    Which isn't really an excuse. We're often told that Israel is the only thriving democracy in the ME, but that doesn't appear to be the case if you're a Palestinian. Comparisons to Hitler are disgusting, but comparisons to Apartheid don't seem wholly without relevance.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    SeanT said:


    I made my remark on April 22nd. You made yours on April 25th, by which time we already had polling evidence, from Sky, that Obama's intervention had backfired. You were just backpedalling hastily.

    CHORTLE

    Here's what you said on April 22nd:

    "Richard_Nabavi Posts: 10,444
    April 22

    This is an impressive campaign from REMAIN however you look at it. That's why there's so much incoherent squealing from the Leave side, although it's baffling to me that they are surprised either by the nature or the intensity of the Remain campaign."

    Poppycock. I'd made a similar point earlier.

    And, yes of course this is an impressive campaign from the Remain side. No one seriously disputes that, do they? And the Obama intervention certainly torpedoed Leave's free-trade-deal fantasy.

    But go on. I love the groupthink here. It helps keep political betting profitable. If you could manage to wank yourselves towards making the odds even, I'd be very grateful.
    Groupthink?

    Thread header after thread header slamming Leave, you and other fanboys persistently calling names, if you get any further up your own arse you'll be chewing your tonsils.

    Show a bit of humility and stop waving your todger around. If, and its a fair sized if, Leave pull this off, your life will become unbearable.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,997
    F1: Sirotkin joins Renault as a test driver:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/36137400

    There were murmurings a year or two ago about him joining one team or another (forget which). Very young, though, so plenty of time for him to get into the sport.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822

    SeanT said:


    I made my remark on April 22nd. You made yours on April 25th, by which time we already had polling evidence, from Sky, that Obama's intervention had backfired. You were just backpedalling hastily.

    CHORTLE

    Here's what you said on April 22nd:

    "Richard_Nabavi Posts: 10,444
    April 22

    This is an impressive campaign from REMAIN however you look at it. That's why there's so much incoherent squealing from the Leave side, although it's baffling to me that they are surprised either by the nature or the intensity of the Remain campaign."

    Poppycock. I'd made a similar point earlier.

    And, yes of course this is an impressive campaign from the Remain side. No one seriously disputes that, do they? And the Obama intervention certainly torpedoed Leave's free-trade-deal fantasy.

    But go on. I love the groupthink here. It helps keep political betting profitable. If you could manage to wank yourselves towards making the odds even, I'd be very grateful.
    Could I offer you a hand with that ?
    :open_mouth:
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,502
    Roger said:

    SeanT said:


    I made my remark on April 22nd. You made yours on April 25th, by which time we already had polling evidence, from Sky, that Obama's intervention had backfired. You were just backpedalling hastily.

    CHORTLE

    Here's what you said on April 22nd:

    "Richard_Nabavi Posts: 10,444
    April 22

    This is an impressive campaign from REMAIN however you look at it. That's why there's so much incoherent squealing from the Leave side, although it's baffling to me that they are surprised either by the nature or the intensity of the Remain campaign."

    Poppycock. I'd made a similar point earlier.

    And, yes of course this is an impressive campaign from the Remain side. No one seriously disputes that, do they? And the Obama intervention certainly torpedoed Leave's free-trade-deal fantasy.

    But go on. I love the groupthink here. It helps keep political betting profitable. If you could manage to wank yourselves towards making the odds even, I'd be very grateful.
    Oh my word, Richard Nabavi just used the word wank, to SeanT.

    I don't think I'll ever recover from this.
    I think it's a typo. He meant to type 'yank'
    In the context, that's really no better.
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    edited April 2016

    MikeK said:

    If Leave do win the referendum, or even come within 2% points in losing, my betting is that there will be a new GE within months of the result.

    I've put a pony on a quick GE by early 2017 @10/1

    A general election if there's a leave vote is a terrible idea.

    On the Labour side if they win they don't want to leave so what's going to happen?
    On the Tory side enough want to leave that there's no way we won't leave if there's a leave vote so why have a GE?
    The reason there will probably be a GE if Leave win is because the government as it stands will fall. All the leading actors of Remain, Cameron, Osborne, Fallon, Crab, Hammond, Javid, Morgan and Co will have so much mud clinging to them, and the world will laugh at them if they continue, that the shame will force many to resign.

    Notice I leave out May, as she may be the one Tory leader to come out of the referendum with some sort of authority. Also the Tories will need a leader that can form a government in the interim.

    The only flaw in the above is that Cameron and Co don't seem to understand or feel shame and will go on until they are ground to dust by events.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    So the finances of the Union and harmonisation of social security are both listed as requiring unanimity.

    Don't trust wikipedia, check the primary sources.

    The multiannual financial framework is the seven year plan, which we did a deal on to set a cap for the increases over the time period 2014-2020, but within that plan the annual EU Budget is set every year by QMV, see Article 314 TFEU.
    5. The Conciliation Committee, which shall be composed of the members of the Council or their representatives and an equal number of members representing the European Parliament, shall have the task of reaching agreement on a joint text, by a qualified majority of the members of the Council or their representatives and by a majority of the representatives of the European Parliament within twenty-one days of its being convened, on the basis of the positions of the European Parliament and the Council.
    User friendly version in the telegraph

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11899962/New-headache-for-David-Cameron-as-Britain-faces-400-million-EU-budget-hike.html
  • Options
    DixieDixie Posts: 1,221
    Roger said:

    Dixie said:

    I feel guilty bringing up the 5th May elections, when all are talking about the referendum. Anyway, news on the streets of Wales and London is that UKIP will do better than polls. Might mean an extra seat or two in Wales and a London-wide Assembly member in London, at a stretch 2!

    Lib Dems are having a good campaign in terms of policies and organisations but no one trusts them! You may already know that.

    Labour say Khan is almost certain to be Mayor - '100%' is their view. mmm, let's hope not. Labour chaps say there is some gossip about him, not extremist led, that may leak!

    More Tories on the ground than Labour in London. Opposite of GE.

    Personally, it would be interesting to see who tops the mini-battle of Mayoral candidates between Greens (she's lovely), Lib Dems (automaton) and UKIP (surprising pleasant). I think UKIP might clinch it.

    Lastly, Galloway is bombing. Does he have any juice left in the tank? No one thinks so, but he is an unexploded bomb!

    Sorry, to bother you with all this.

    I remember you had one of those nod nod wink wink bits of inside info about Ed before the last election. Did it ever happen?
    Don't think so, he was too dull. I can't tell you the Khan one, because it is second hand, needs to come from Labour people who claim they may spill it before election. Let's hope.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    MP_SE said:

    Lol.

    Seeing as Richard is around I wonder if he will be able to confirm if we paid the £1.7bn bill to the EU in full...

    No we didn't, we got a rebate on it.

    Next.
    *gobsmacked* he still won't admit it.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,941
    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:


    I made my remark on April 22nd. You made yours on April 25th, by which time we already had polling evidence, from Sky, that Obama's intervention had backfired. You were just backpedalling hastily.

    CHORTLE

    Here's what you said on April 22nd:

    "Richard_Nabavi Posts: 10,444
    April 22

    This is an impressive campaign from REMAIN however you look at it. That's why there's so much incoherent squealing from the Leave side, although it's baffling to me that they are surprised either by the nature or the intensity of the Remain campaign."

    Poppycock. I'd made a similar point earlier.

    And, yes of course this is an impressive campaign from the Remain side. No one seriously disputes that, do they? And the Obama intervention certainly torpedoed Leave's free-trade-deal fantasy.

    But go on. I love the groupthink here. It helps keep political betting profitable. If you could manage to wank yourselves towards making the odds even, I'd be very grateful.
    There's no doubt that the Remain campaign is very well-organised and efficient (far more so than the Leave campaign).

    But, it your message is unattractive, then good organisation and efficiency may not do you much good. And, the Remain message is unappealing. It's declinist. It promotes the view that foreigners will do beastly things to us if we leave the EU and there's nothing we can do about it. That may be true, but it's not going to be welcomed by many voters.

    That's not how I see the Remain message. To me, it says that we are perfectly able to build successful trading relationships with non-EU countries while being in the EU and enjoying full, unhindered access to the single market. Leaving the EU does not mean better trading relationships with anyone. It merely means a less beneficial one with countries that currently buy over 40% of all our exports.

  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Sean_F said:

    There's no doubt that the Remain campaign is very well-organised and efficient (far more so than the Leave campaign).

    But, it your message is unattractive, then good organisation and efficiency may not do you much good. And, the Remain message is unappealing. It's declinist. It promotes the view that foreigners will do beastly things to us if we leave the EU and there's nothing we can do about it. That may be true, but it's not going to be welcomed by many voters.

    The Remain campaign has one over-riding objective: to sow doubt about the economic risk of leaving. That's all they need to do to win this by a good margin. They are doing it very well, and that will pay off in the final voting.
  • Options

    Oh my word, Richard Nabavi just used the word wank, to SeanT.

    I don't think I'll ever recover from this.

    Are you sitting down? (You might want to hold on to the table and have some smelling salts at the ready as well.)

    On Sunday evening I am going to be making my debut at the Mayfield Festival as a rap artist:

    http://www.mayfieldfestival.co.uk/events/erik-satie-vexations-revisited/

    PBers welcome!
    I can't stand rap music. But good luck
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,457
    edited April 2016

    Oh my word, Richard Nabavi just used the word wank, to SeanT.

    I don't think I'll ever recover from this.

    Are you sitting down? (You might want to hold on to the table and have some smelling salts at the ready as well.)

    On Sunday evening I am going to be making my debut at the Mayfield Festival as a rap artist:

    http://www.mayfieldfestival.co.uk/events/erik-satie-vexations-revisited/

    PBers welcome!
    Wtf?!

    "All the bitches in the house say Reeeeeemaaaaaainnnn!!!!"
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    If, and its a fair sized if, Leave pull this off, your life will become unbearable.

    Why? I'm just expressing my independent opinion, as always. I can be wrong sometimes.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,871

    Sean_F said:

    There's no doubt that the Remain campaign is very well-organised and efficient (far more so than the Leave campaign).

    But, it your message is unattractive, then good organisation and efficiency may not do you much good. And, the Remain message is unappealing. It's declinist. It promotes the view that foreigners will do beastly things to us if we leave the EU and there's nothing we can do about it. That may be true, but it's not going to be welcomed by many voters.

    The Remain campaign has one over-riding objective: to sow doubt about the economic risk of leaving. That's all they need to do to win this by a good margin. They are doing it very well, and that will pay off in the final voting.
    Perhaps. But, it's not a message that people like to hear.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,960
    ** Definitely not a tip **

    I still can't quite believe Leicester are going the title, so I've backed a fiver on Spuds to make sure of it.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    This really couldn't be more ridiculous

    https://twitter.com/PlatoSays/status/724991262491836417
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Sean_F said:

    Perhaps. But, it's not a message that people like to hear.

    They might not like to hear it. That's one reason why I think the opinion polls are over-stating Leave's final result.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    If, and its a fair sized if, Leave pull this off, your life will become unbearable.

    Why? I'm just expressing my independent opinion, as always. I can be wrong sometimes.
    Yes, its nothing more than coincidence that your independent opinion complies 100% with Cameron's.

    You've never had an original thought in your life, you simply parrot what you hear Cameron say.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,941
    john_zims said:

    @SouthamObserver


    'Immigration is the ultimate fear card, isn't it? Immigrants are taking our jobs, pushing down our wages, claiming our generous benefits, making our housing more expensive, putting our public services under unbearable pressure and changing the cultural and social fabric of our country. It's an immensely powerful message and very hard to counter.'


    Nope, it's the ultimate reality card,it's what voters have actually experienced over the past 20 years and according to polls their number one concern.

    Most parts of the UK are low EU immigration areas. Most people have not actually experienced it in any large numbers - and that becomes truer the further north and west you go. But they are concerned about it. You can see that in polling about what issues directly affect voters and what they think are the most important issues facing the country. In the first, immigration is much further down the list.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    There's no doubt that the Remain campaign is very well-organised and efficient (far more so than the Leave campaign).

    But, it your message is unattractive, then good organisation and efficiency may not do you much good. And, the Remain message is unappealing. It's declinist. It promotes the view that foreigners will do beastly things to us if we leave the EU and there's nothing we can do about it. That may be true, but it's not going to be welcomed by many voters.

    The Remain campaign has one over-riding objective: to sow doubt about the economic risk of leaving. That's all they need to do to win this by a good margin. They are doing it very well, and that will pay off in the final voting.
    Perhaps. But, it's not a message that people like to hear.
    Perhaps but the vote only happens once.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,352

    Oh my word, Richard Nabavi just used the word wank, to SeanT.

    I don't think I'll ever recover from this.

    Are you sitting down? (You might want to hold on to the table and have some smelling salts at the ready as well.)

    On Sunday evening I am going to be making my debut at the Mayfield Festival as a rap artist:

    http://www.mayfieldfestival.co.uk/events/erik-satie-vexations-revisited/

    PBers welcome!
    Wtf?!

    "All the bitches in the house say Reeeeeemaaaaaainnnn!!!!"
    Double lol! And good luck, Richard.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822

    Oh my word, Richard Nabavi just used the word wank, to SeanT.

    I don't think I'll ever recover from this.

    Are you sitting down? (You might want to hold on to the table and have some smelling salts at the ready as well.)

    On Sunday evening I am going to be making my debut at the Mayfield Festival as a rap artist:

    http://www.mayfieldfestival.co.uk/events/erik-satie-vexations-revisited/

    PBers welcome!
    Wtf?!

    "All the bitches in the house say Reeeeeemaaaaaainnnn!!!!"
    Hoes, before Noes :wink:
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Sean_F said:

    SeanT said:


    I made my remark on April 22nd. You made yours on April 25th, by which time we already had polling evidence, from Sky, that Obama's intervention had backfired. You were just backpedalling hastily.

    CHORTLE

    Here's what you said on April 22nd:

    "Richard_Nabavi Posts: 10,444
    April 22

    This is an impressive campaign from REMAIN however you look at it. That's why there's so much incoherent squealing from the Leave side, although it's baffling to me that they are surprised either by the nature or the intensity of the Remain campaign."

    Poppycock. I'd made a similar point earlier.

    And, yes of course this is an impressive campaign from the Remain side. No one seriously disputes that, do they? And the Obama intervention certainly torpedoed Leave's free-trade-deal fantasy.

    But go on. I love the groupthink here. It helps keep political betting profitable. If you could manage to wank yourselves towards making the odds even, I'd be very grateful.
    There's no doubt that the Remain campaign is very well-organised and efficient (far more so than the Leave campaign).

    But, it your message is unattractive, then good organisation and efficiency may not do you much good. And, the Remain message is unappealing. It's declinist. It promotes the view that foreigners will do beastly things to us if we leave the EU and there's nothing we can do about it. That may be true, but it's not going to be welcomed by many voters.

    That's not how I see the Remain message. To me, it says that we are perfectly able to build successful trading relationships with non-EU countries while being in the EU and enjoying full, unhindered access to the single market. Leaving the EU does not mean better trading relationships with anyone. It merely means a less beneficial one with countries that currently buy over 40% of all our exports.

    Why would it not mean better trading relationships with anyone? What makes us 100% incapable of building new relationships that we are forbidden by treaty from building within the EU?
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,457
    "

    SeanT said:


    I made my remark on April 22nd. You made yours on April 25th, by which time we already had polling evidence, from Sky, that Obama's intervention had backfired. You were just backpedalling hastily.

    CHORTLE

    Here's what you said on April 22nd:

    "Richard_Nabavi Posts: 10,444
    April 22

    This is an impressive campaign from REMAIN however you look at it. That's why there's so much incoherent squealing from the Leave side, although it's baffling to me that they are surprised either by the nature or the intensity of the Remain campaign."

    Poppycock. I'd made a similar point earlier.

    And, yes of course this is an impressive campaign from the Remain side. No one seriously disputes that, do they? And the Obama intervention certainly torpedoed Leave's free-trade-deal fantasy.

    But go on. I love the groupthink here. It helps keep political betting profitable. If you could manage to wank yourselves towards making the odds even, I'd be very grateful.
    Groupthink?

    Thread header after thread header slamming Leave, you and other fanboys persistently calling names, if you get any further up your own arse you'll be chewing your tonsils.

    Show a bit of humility and stop waving your todger around. If, and its fair sized.
    Are you asking if Richard's todger is fair-sized?
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    If, and its a fair sized if, Leave pull this off, your life will become unbearable.

    Why? I'm just expressing my independent opinion, as always. I can be wrong sometimes.
    Yes, its nothing more than coincidence that your independent opinion complies 100% with Cameron's.

    You've never had an original thought in your life, you simply parrot what you hear Cameron say.
    As always you are confusing cause and effect. I support Cameron because his politics is similar to mine, not the other way around. I don't know why you are incapable of understanding this simple point.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    It's flattering to note that my comments downthread are read so assiduously. It's a shame that no one seems to have noticed this one:

    http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/1026612/#Comment_1026612

    NB point 1 in particular.
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Indigo said:

    MP_SE said:

    Lol.

    Seeing as Richard is around I wonder if he will be able to confirm if we paid the £1.7bn bill to the EU in full...

    No we didn't, we got a rebate on it.

    Next.
    *gobsmacked* he still won't admit it.
    Even the European Commission confirm the full amount has been received...
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    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Indigo said:

    So the finances of the Union and harmonisation of social security are both listed as requiring unanimity.

    Don't trust wikipedia, check the primary sources.

    The multiannual financial framework is the seven year plan, which we did a deal on to set a cap for the increases over the time period 2014-2020, but within that plan the annual EU Budget is set every year by QMV, see Article 314 TFEU.
    5. The Conciliation Committee, which shall be composed of the members of the Council or their representatives and an equal number of members representing the European Parliament, shall have the task of reaching agreement on a joint text, by a qualified majority of the members of the Council or their representatives and by a majority of the representatives of the European Parliament within twenty-one days of its being convened, on the basis of the positions of the European Parliament and the Council.
    User friendly version in the telegraph

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/eu/11899962/New-headache-for-David-Cameron-as-Britain-faces-400-million-EU-budget-hike.html

    That link again confirms that the overall cut in EU spending is "veto protected".
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    MP_SE said:

    Lol.

    Seeing as Richard is around I wonder if he will be able to confirm if we paid the £1.7bn bill to the EU in full...

    No we didn't, we got a rebate on it.

    Next.
    A rebate other than our automatic rebate we always get and have since Thatcher negotiated it in the eighties? That rebate or another one?
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    weejonnie said:

    DanSmith said:

    Just before I go out canvassing, these are the numbers Leave need to change if they want to win

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/724959407134617600

    What are these numbers for people who are certain to vote.
    The Economy is REMAIN's one asset. Get rid of that and the dam will break.

    If.
    I agree.
    The LEAVE brain trust will have to work on that.
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    I’ve just read that the Bradford MP Naz Shah has quit as McDonnell's PPS, how long before the Labour party expells this nasty anti-Semite? - answers on a post card...!
    She wouldn't be the first who thinks Israel is an apartheid state. In fact it might well be a majority view. It certainly is among it's Arab neigbours
    Well, its Arab neighbours are hardly in a position to cast stones. It's the presence of Jews there that's their main grievance.
    Which isn't really an excuse. We're often told that Israel is the only thriving democracy in the ME, but that doesn't appear to be the case if you're a Palestinian. Comparisons to Hitler are disgusting, but comparisons to Apartheid don't seem wholly without relevance.
    How many Arabs living and working in Israel?: Millions
    How many Jews living and working in Jordan, Egypt, Soudi Arabia, The Magreb, Gaza? Not a one, unless they are the few remaining Jews in Egypt or the Magreb or on an official body from Israel. And the reason is that Jews are forbidden to live in these states. Who really practices Apartheid?
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,892
    edited April 2016

    If, and its a fair sized if, Leave pull this off, your life will become unbearable.

    Why? I'm just expressing my independent opinion, as always. I can be wrong sometimes.
    Yes, its nothing more than coincidence that your independent opinion complies 100% with Cameron's.

    You've never had an original thought in your life, you simply parrot what you hear Cameron say.
    If you've been on this site any length of time you'd know that isn't unusual. What is extraordinary to us who take a more critical approach to our leaders is the way those who believed he could do no wrong now loathe him with a passion. I always thought the EU was a passing phase that youthful Tories would get over. Now I don't think so. It's the Tories second coming.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,960
    Interesting race coming up at Punchestown, Special Tiara may well be able to frank the form of Vautour vs Sprinter Sacre in a hypothetical match up.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    If, and its a fair sized if, Leave pull this off, your life will become unbearable.

    Why? I'm just expressing my independent opinion, as always. I can be wrong sometimes.
    Yes, its nothing more than coincidence that your independent opinion complies 100% with Cameron's.

    You've never had an original thought in your life, you simply parrot what you hear Cameron say.
    As always you are confusing cause and effect. I support Cameron because his politics is similar to mine, not the other way around. I don't know why you are incapable of understanding this simple point.
    I'm not confusing anything, I'm chuckling at your attempts to portray yourself as an independent thinker when you are no such thing. You are a conservative voter attempting to bask in the reflected glory of somebody that doesn't know you. Assuming you're an adult I find that weird.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,960

    It's flattering to note that my comments downthread are read so assiduously. It's a shame that no one seems to have noticed this one:

    http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/1026612/#Comment_1026612

    NB point 1 in particular.

    I try and assiduously note your comments at all times, especially the tips :)
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,997
    Miss Plato, the concept of 'bros before hoes' is also to be found in the Chinese neo-classical mega-novel Three Kingdoms.

    In it, there are references to brothers (blood-brothers, in this case) being like arms and legs, once lost never to be regained, whereas women (and children) are like clothes, and easily replaced.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,502
    MikeK said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    I’ve just read that the Bradford MP Naz Shah has quit as McDonnell's PPS, how long before the Labour party expells this nasty anti-Semite? - answers on a post card...!
    She wouldn't be the first who thinks Israel is an apartheid state. In fact it might well be a majority view. It certainly is among it's Arab neigbours
    Well, its Arab neighbours are hardly in a position to cast stones. It's the presence of Jews there that's their main grievance.
    I wouldn't dream of saying differently.

  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MikeK said:

    MikeK said:

    If Leave do win the referendum, or even come within 2% points in losing, my betting is that there will be a new GE within months of the result.

    I've put a pony on a quick GE by early 2017 @10/1

    A general election if there's a leave vote is a terrible idea.

    On the Labour side if they win they don't want to leave so what's going to happen?
    On the Tory side enough want to leave that there's no way we won't leave if there's a leave vote so why have a GE?
    The reason there will probably be a GE if Leave win is because the government as it stands will fall. All the leading actors of Remain, Cameron, Osborne, Fallon, Crab, Hammond, Javid, Morgan and Co will have so much mud clinging to them, and the world will laugh at them if they continue, that the shame will force many to resign.

    Notice I leave out May, as she may be the one Tory leader to come out of the referendum with some sort of authority. Also the Tories will need a leader that can form a government in the interim.

    The only flaw in the above is that Cameron and Co don't seem to understand or feel shame and will go on until they are ground to dust by events.
    The beauty of a Parliamentary democracy is that even if a government falls, the Parliament does not. Lets say you're right and Cameron has to go along with the others. Cameron will have to resign and there won't simply be a new election there'd be a new Tory leadership election.

    Once the new leader is elected he is effectively immediately the new PM. He (or she) has the right (as do all PMs) to reshuffle the cabinet and like all new PMs he almost certainly would.

    So then Cameron has been dealt with, the rest of the cabinet has been dealt with. Unless the Conservatives divide in two (and that's LESS likely in the case of a Leave vote since Leavers will have won) then the new PM will hold the confidence of the majority of Parliament. So there'd be no reason to hold a new election.

    The priority of a new PM will be to get the right form of Leave then go to the polls on a platform of confidence in the government versus chaos in the opposition ... not chaos either way as Leave is the elephant that hasn't been dealt with yet.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,502
    Those who say 'It's all veto protected' and 'on what conceivable planet' etc. should remember we didn't *have* to give up any of our rebate either.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Roger said:

    If, and its a fair sized if, Leave pull this off, your life will become unbearable.

    Why? I'm just expressing my independent opinion, as always. I can be wrong sometimes.
    Yes, its nothing more than coincidence that your independent opinion complies 100% with Cameron's.

    You've never had an original thought in your life, you simply parrot what you hear Cameron say.
    If you've been on this site any length of time you'd know that isn't unusual. What is extraordinary to us who take a more critical approach to our leaders is the way those who believed he could do no wrong now loathe him with a passion. I always thought the EU was a passing phase that youthful Tories would get over. Now I don't think so. It's the Tories second coming.
    Oh I agree, after the GE the gloating on here was unbearable, I pointed out at the time that all political careers end in failure and that a bit more humility would be welcome. Even somebody as anti Cameron as me couldn't have predicted how quickly so many of his supporters would turn.

    Unfortunately some on here refuse to accept even the slightest critique which says more about them than Cameron.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Those who say 'It's all veto protected' and 'on what conceivable planet' etc. should remember we didn't *have* to give up any of our rebate either.

    So lets make sure we vote governments that believe in Britain rather than governments like Blair/Brown.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,278

    "

    SeanT said:


    I made my remark on April 22nd. You made yours on April 25th, by which time we already had polling evidence, from Sky, that Obama's intervention had backfired. You were just backpedalling hastily.

    CHORTLE

    Here's what you said on April 22nd:

    "Richard_Nabavi Posts: 10,444
    April 22

    This is an impressive campaign from REMAIN however you look at it. That's why there's so much incoherent squealing from the Leave side, although it's baffling to me that they are surprised either by the nature or the intensity of the Remain campaign."

    Poppycock. I'd made a similar point earlier.

    And, yes of course this is an impressive campaign from the Remain side. No one seriously disputes that, do they? And the Obama intervention certainly torpedoed Leave's free-trade-deal fantasy.

    But go on. I love the groupthink here. It helps keep political betting profitable. If you could manage to wank yourselves towards making the odds even, I'd be very grateful.
    Groupthink?

    Thread header after thread header slamming Leave, you and other fanboys persistently calling names, if you get any further up your own arse you'll be chewing your tonsils.

    Show a bit of humility and stop waving your todger around. If, and its fair sized.
    Are you asking if Richard's todger is fair-sized?
    Now then gentlemen, this isn't the GOP nomination battle you know.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited April 2016

    I'm not confusing anything, I'm chuckling at your attempts to portray yourself as an independent thinker when you are no such thing. You are a conservative voter attempting to bask in the reflected glory of somebody that doesn't know you. Assuming you're an adult I find that weird.

    As I posted upthread in rather more colourful language than I usually use, it's one of the great things about political betting that there are so many people whose judgement is flawed by their partisanship. You are a splendid example of that maxim. Because you don't like what I say, you invent bonkers explanations ('reflected glory'!!!). What makes this particularly silly is that you ignore the obvious explanation, namely that I mean what I say, and that I have absolutely zero incentive to do otherwise. Here's a tip: try and see if you can get your head around that concept. It will do you good.
  • Options
    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,760
    MikeK said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    I’ve just read that the Bradford MP Naz Shah has quit as McDonnell's PPS, how long before the Labour party expells this nasty anti-Semite? - answers on a post card...!
    She wouldn't be the first who thinks Israel is an apartheid state. In fact it might well be a majority view. It certainly is among it's Arab neigbours
    Well, its Arab neighbours are hardly in a position to cast stones. It's the presence of Jews there that's their main grievance.
    Which isn't really an excuse. We're often told that Israel is the only thriving democracy in the ME, but that doesn't appear to be the case if you're a Palestinian. Comparisons to Hitler are disgusting, but comparisons to Apartheid don't seem wholly without relevance.
    How many Arabs living and working in Israel?: Millions
    How many Jews living and working in Jordan, Egypt, Soudi Arabia, The Magreb, Gaza? Not a one, unless they are the few remaining Jews in Egypt or the Magreb or on an official body from Israel. And the reason is that Jews are forbidden to live in these states. Who really practices Apartheid?
    Just nonsense Mike, the Arab states don't practice Apartheid.

    It's ethnic cleansing.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822

    Miss Plato, the concept of 'bros before hoes' is also to be found in the Chinese neo-classical mega-novel Three Kingdoms.

    In it, there are references to brothers (blood-brothers, in this case) being like arms and legs, once lost never to be regained, whereas women (and children) are like clothes, and easily replaced.

    How intriguing. Thanx for that!
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Speedy said:

    weejonnie said:

    DanSmith said:

    Just before I go out canvassing, these are the numbers Leave need to change if they want to win

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/724959407134617600

    What are these numbers for people who are certain to vote.
    The Economy is REMAIN's one asset. Get rid of that and the dam will break.

    If.
    I agree.
    The LEAVE brain trust will have to work on that.
    There is movement in this area -

    http://www.standard.co.uk/business/free-city-from-brussels-shackles-brexiteers-urge-a3232851.html

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/7100715/Margaret-Thatcher-s-economics-guru-says-Brexit-will-leave-families-with-an-extra-40-pounds-a-week.html

    http://www.cityam.com/239663/brexit-myths-debunked-the-leave-campaign-shouldnt-fear-arguing-that-leaving-the-eu-would-be-good-for-the-economy
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822

    Those who say 'It's all veto protected' and 'on what conceivable planet' etc. should remember we didn't *have* to give up any of our rebate either.

    And eurocrats toppling the elected governments of Italy and Greece...
  • Options
    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053

    MikeK said:

    Sean_F said:

    Roger said:

    I’ve just read that the Bradford MP Naz Shah has quit as McDonnell's PPS, how long before the Labour party expells this nasty anti-Semite? - answers on a post card...!
    She wouldn't be the first who thinks Israel is an apartheid state. In fact it might well be a majority view. It certainly is among it's Arab neigbours
    Well, its Arab neighbours are hardly in a position to cast stones. It's the presence of Jews there that's their main grievance.
    Which isn't really an excuse. We're often told that Israel is the only thriving democracy in the ME, but that doesn't appear to be the case if you're a Palestinian. Comparisons to Hitler are disgusting, but comparisons to Apartheid don't seem wholly without relevance.
    How many Arabs living and working in Israel?: Millions
    How many Jews living and working in Jordan, Egypt, Soudi Arabia, The Magreb, Gaza? Not a one, unless they are the few remaining Jews in Egypt or the Magreb or on an official body from Israel. And the reason is that Jews are forbidden to live in these states. Who really practices Apartheid?
    Just nonsense Mike, the Arab states don't practice Apartheid.

    It's ethnic cleansing.
    How true. I bow to your superior wisdom. :-I
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Since the GE my attacks have been aimed mainly at the govt, however if the Labour Party don't sack that anti semitic woman I'll change my target.

    Imagine the outrage in Islington if anybody connected with Ukip had said something similar about Muslims. As I've said previously, in parts of Labour anti semitism appears to be condoned, encouraged even, its disgusting.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    That Frank Field speech excerpt

    https://youtu.be/jQSZX9W8kfU
  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Speedy said:

    weejonnie said:

    DanSmith said:

    Just before I go out canvassing, these are the numbers Leave need to change if they want to win

    https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/724959407134617600

    What are these numbers for people who are certain to vote.
    The Economy is REMAIN's one asset. Get rid of that and the dam will break.

    If.
    I agree.
    The LEAVE brain trust will have to work on that.
    I read in City am that 'economists for leave' have formed. Patrick Minford, Roger Bootle and Ryan Bourne.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    I'm not confusing anything, I'm chuckling at your attempts to portray yourself as an independent thinker when you are no such thing. You are a conservative voter attempting to bask in the reflected glory of somebody that doesn't know you. Assuming you're an adult I find that weird.

    As I posted upthread in rather more colourful language than I usually use, it's one of the great things about political betting that there are so many people whose judgement is flawed by their partisanship. You are a splendid example of that maxim. Because you don't like what I say, you invent bonkers explanations ('reflected glory'!!!). What makes this particularly silly is that you ignore the obvious explanation, namely that I mean what I say, and that I have absolutely zero incentive to do otherwise. Here's a tip: try and see if you can get your head around that concept. It will do you good.
    Oh I don't doubt you mean what you say, I find it amusing that you are trying to convince me that what you say you thought up on your own. Such as the adolescent charade about being undecided.

    You've now changed tack and are willy waving about your immense success as a political soothsayer and punter. I'm humbled that you've stooped to engage with me, thank you.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,364

    SeanT said:


    I made my remark on April 22nd. You made yours on April 25th, by which time we already had polling evidence, from Sky, that Obama's intervention had backfired. You were just backpedalling hastily.

    CHORTLE

    Here's what you said on April 22nd:

    "Richard_Nabavi Posts: 10,444
    April 22

    This is an impressive campaign from REMAIN however you look at it. That's why there's so much incoherent squealing from the Leave side, although it's baffling to me that they are surprised either by the nature or the intensity of the Remain campaign."

    Poppycock. I'd made a similar point earlier.

    And, yes of course this is an impressive campaign from the Remain side. No one seriously disputes that, do they? And the Obama intervention certainly torpedoed Leave's free-trade-deal fantasy.

    But go on. I love the groupthink here. It helps keep political betting profitable. If you could manage to wank yourselves towards making the odds even, I'd be very grateful.
    Oh my word, Richard Nabavi just used the word wank, to SeanT.

    I don't think I'll ever recover from this.
    TSE obsessed with BJs, Nabavi obsessed with the W-bomb. :lol:
  • Options
    chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited April 2016
    ICM is 55 Leave/ 45 Remain on 10/10 to vote, pre weightings.

    If the working class vote, Leave wins.

    Why are Labour hiding?
This discussion has been closed.