Hmmmm... Can't say I'm best pleased with Vote Leave's goal.
As I thought, will it push you to back Remain?
This isn't Norway. This isn't even Switzerland.
I can't see how we would get access to the single European financial services passport under this plan.
That's why our firm's risk analysis on Brexit concluded Brexit was bad for us.
Look on the bright side, you get to open and visit a new office in every EU country in the event of Brexit
Some of us are voting on more than what's convenient for our firm.
When I worked for the Big 4 a competition commission break-up of the cartel would have negatively impacted me, and I probably would have needed to look for another job.
I still supported it. Same when I worked for BAA when it still owned Gatwick.
I should have also added, bad for the wider economy too.
Ignore my tweet, and my comments, and just look at Robert's first comment on this thread.
If he's not best pleased with that Vote Leave are proposing, then it is a mistake by Vote Leave.
I respectfully disagree.
I am satisfied with the evidence provided by Open Europe and Capital Economics that it would not be negative for the wider economy.
Robert is big enough to make his own mind up. So am I.
Quite. Much as I respect him for running a successful business, I don't feel the need to agree with him on every issue, especially as he spent several weeks behaving in an exceptionally ill-bred manner toward me, apparently due to me being a KGB agent.
More than one successful business, thanks very much.
Hmmmm... Can't say I'm best pleased with Vote Leave's goal.
As I thought, will it push you to back Remain?
This isn't Norway. This isn't even Switzerland.
I can't see how we would get access to the single European financial services passport under this plan.
That's why our firm's risk analysis on Brexit concluded Brexit was bad for us.
Look on the bright side, you get to open and visit a new office in every EU country in the event of Brexit
Some of us are voting on more than what's convenient for our firm.
When I worked for the Big 4 a competition commission break-up of the cartel would have negatively impacted me, and I probably would have needed to look for another job.
I still supported it. Same when I worked for BAA when it still owned Gatwick.
I should have also added, bad for the wider economy too.
Ignore my tweet, and my comments, and just look at Robert's first comment on this thread.
If he's not best pleased with that Vote Leave are proposing, then it is a mistake by Vote Leave.
I respectfully disagree.
I am satisfied with the evidence provided by Open Europe and Capital Economics that it would not be negative for the wider economy.
Robert is big enough to make his own mind up. So am I.
Quite. Much as I respect him for running a successful business, I don't feel the need to agree with him on every issue, especially as he spent several weeks behaving in an exceptionally ill-bred manner toward me, apparently due to me being a KGB agent.
More than one successful business, thanks very much.
... You don't have free trade if people aren't allowed to move around.
Wow, so I have automatic residency rights in Japan with the same access to benefits,etc. as any Japanese citizen. I never knew that.
Alternatively, acceptable trade is possible for both sides without having to have free movement of people.
Britain and Japan don't have free trade.
But we do seem to manage to trade together very well. How can that be? Surely we should not be able to buy Japanese made goods at acceptable prices unless we have a free trade deal - we have been told this repeatedly on here over recent weeks. Mr. Observer, gent of this parish, went so far as saying the absence of a free trade deal would mean a restriction in consumer choice.
What is now the Uk has been a member of what is now the EU only since 1973 but traded successfully with what became European countries and beyond for millennia before that. The idea that trade depends on the EU's idea of Free Movement of people is laughable.
Britain and Japan trade, but it's not free. Importing goods into Japan has numerous tariffs, non-tariff barriers, quotas and outright bans. Sometimes the shops run out of butter. I am not making this up.
Isn't that Japan's problem? If the people running the show are so fecking incompetnent as to fail to ensure their own peoples basic needs it says nothing about international trade. It is not as if there is an international shortage of milk.
Well that's my point. As you say there's no international shortage of milk. If we had free trade, as you claimed up-thread, we'd be able to buy all the butter we liked.
"At different points In campaigners like to argue either that Brexit would lead to EU nations using their massive muscle to punish us, or that Brexit would lead to contagion and the collapse of Europe - just as Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union collapsed following secession from those unions. Manifestly both cannot be true. An EU without the UK cannot simultaneously be a super-charged leviathan bent on revenge and a crumbling Tower of Babel riven by conflict. But both points have a grain of truth. There will be anger amongst some in European elites. Not because the UK is destined for a bleak, impoverished future on the outside. No, quite the opposite. What will enrage, and disorientate, EU elites is the UK’s success outside the Union. Regaining control over our laws, taxes and borders and forging new trade deals while also shedding unnecessary regulation will enhance our competitive advantage over other EU nations. Our superior growth rate, and better growth prospects, will only strengthen. Our attractiveness to inward investors and our influence on the world stage will only grow. But while this might provoke both angst and even resentment among EU elites, the UK’s success will send a very different message to the EU’s peoples. They will see that a different Europe is possible. It is possible to regain democratic control of your own country and currency, to trade and co-operate with other EU nations without surrendering fundamental sovereignty to a remote and unelected bureaucracy. And, by following that path, your people are richer, your influence for good greater, your future brighter. So - yes there will be “contagion” if Britain leaves the EU. But what will be catching is democracy. There will be a new demand for more effective institutions to enable the more flexible kind of international cooperation we will need as technological and economic forces transform the world."
There is a “justified concern” that Islamist fanatics in Syria and Iraq are trying to obtain substances of mass destruction such as biological, chemical and radiological weapons.
The terror group is also trying to develop new ways of avoiding security measures to carry out attacks such as bombs implanted in human bodies and hacking driverless cars, an international security conference in London heard.
We know - from repeated referenda on the continent and in Ireland - that the peoples of the EU are profoundly unhappy with the European project. We also know that the framers of that project - Monnet and Schumann - hoped to advance integration by getting round democracy and never submitting their full vision to the verdict of voters. That approach has characterised the behaviour of EU leaders ever since.
But that approach could not, and will not, survive the assertion of deep democratic principle that would be the British people voting to leave. Our vote to Leave will liberate and strengthen those voices across the EU calling for a different future - those demanding the devolution of powers back from Brussels and desperate for a progressive alternative. For Greeks who have had to endure dreadful austerity measures, in order to secure bailouts from Brussels, which then go to pay off bankers demanding their due, a different Europe will be a liberation. For Spanish families whose children have had to endure years of joblessness and for whom a home and children of their own is a desperately distant prospect, a different Europe will be a liberation. For Portuguese citizens who have had to endure cuts to health, welfare and public services as the price of EU policies, a different Europe will be a liberation. For Italians whose elected Government was dismissed by Brussels fiat, for Danes whose opt-out from the Maastricht Treaty has been repeatedly overridden by the European Court, for Poles whose hard-won independence has been eroded by the European Commission, a different Europe will be a liberation. For Britain, voting to leave will be a galvanising, liberating, empowering moment of patriotic renewal. We will have rejected the depressing and pessimistic vision advanced by In campaigners that Britain is too small and weak and the British people too hapless and pathetic to manage their own affairs and choose their own future. But for Europe, Britain voting to leave will be the beginning of something potentially even more exciting - the democratic liberation of a whole Continent. If we vote to leave we will have - in the words of a former British Prime Minister - saved our country by our exertions and Europe by our example. We will have confirmed that we believe our best days lie ahead, that we believe our children can build a better future, that this country’s instincts and institutions, its people and its principles, are capable not just of making our society freer, fairer and richer but also once more of setting an inspirational example to the world. It is a noble ambition and one I hope this country will unite behind in the weeks to come.
... You don't have free trade if people aren't allowed to move around.
Wow, so I have automatic residency rights in Japan with the same access to benefits,etc. as any Japanese citizen. I never knew that.
Alternatively, acceptable trade is possible for both sides without having to have free movement of people.
Britain and Japan don't have free trade.
But we do seem to manage to trade together very well. How can that be? Surely we should not be able to buy Japanese made goods at acceptable prices unless we have a free trade deal - we have been told this repeatedly on here over recent weeks. Mr. Observer, gent of this parish, went so far as saying the absence of a free trade deal would mean a restriction in consumer choice.
What is now the Uk has been a member of what is now the EU only since 1973 but traded successfully with what became European countries and beyond for millennia before that. The idea that trade depends on the EU's idea of Free Movement of people is laughable.
Britain and Japan trade, but it's not free. Importing goods into Japan has numerous tariffs, non-tariff barriers, quotas and outright bans. Sometimes the shops run out of butter. I am not making this up.
Isn't that Japan's problem? If the people running the show are so fecking incompetnent as to fail to ensure their own peoples basic needs it says nothing about international trade. It is not as if there is an international shortage of milk.
Well that's my point. As you say there's no international shortage of milk. If we had free trade, as you claimed up-thread, we'd be able to buy all the butter we liked.
Surely the point is there are plenty of people waiting to sell Japan milk but their own internal process, tariffs and asshattery is what is stopping those sales happening. They don't need to free trade agreement to fix that, just to be a little bit less idiotic about how they handle the import of dairy products.
"If the pollsters are still making the sort of errors that got the election result so woefully wrong a year ago, then Britain’s future in Europe looks bleak indeed. Even on the face of things the ‘Leave’ campaign is doing comparatively well, and is running ‘Remain’ dangerously close. If the number of older voters is again being underestimated – these, after all, are the ones who are the most Eurosceptic and most likely to turn out at the polling stations – then the country is on track for a political earthquake that will make last year’s general election upset feel like mere indigestion."
How about PB moderators, that we have a thread or 2 devoted to analysing the polling companies weightings and assumptions for turnout and how much each has taken on board the lessons from GE2015? Why not invite each company to come on here and explain why their current polling is the best?
We know - from repeated referenda on the continent and in Ireland - that the peoples of the EU are profoundly unhappy with the European project. We also know that the framers of that project - Monnet and Schumann - hoped to advance integration by getting round democracy and never submitting their full vision to the verdict of voters. That approach has characterised the behaviour of EU leaders ever since.
But that approach could not, and will not, survive the assertion of deep democratic principle that would be the British people voting to leave. Our vote to Leave will liberate and strengthen those voices across the EU calling for a different future - those demanding the devolution of powers back from Brussels and desperate for a progressive alternative. For Greeks who have had to endure dreadful austerity measures, in order to secure bailouts from Brussels, which then go to pay off bankers demanding their due, a different Europe will be a liberation. For Spanish families whose children have had to endure years of joblessness and for whom a home and children of their own is a desperately distant prospect, a different Europe will be a liberation. For Portuguese citizens who have had to endure cuts to health, welfare and public services as the price of EU policies, a different Europe will be a liberation. For Italians whose elected Government was dismissed by Brussels fiat, for Danes whose opt-out from the Maastricht Treaty has been repeatedly overridden by the European Court, for Poles whose hard-won independence has been eroded by the European Commission, a different Europe will be a liberation. For Britain, voting to leave will be a galvanising, liberating, empowering moment of patriotic renewal. We will have rejected the depressing and pessimistic vision advanced by In campaigners that Britain is too small and weak and the British people too hapless and pathetic to manage their own affairs and choose their own future. But for Europe, Britain voting to leave will be the beginning of something potentially even more exciting - the democratic liberation of a whole Continent. If we vote to leave we will have - in the words of a former British Prime Minister - saved our country by our exertions and Europe by our example. We will have confirmed that we believe our best days lie ahead, that we believe our children can build a better future, that this country’s instincts and institutions, its people and its principles, are capable not just of making our society freer, fairer and richer but also once more of setting an inspirational example to the world. It is a noble ambition and one I hope this country will unite behind in the weeks to come.
I think he's absolving Greece of their hand in their misfortunes. They always had the option to leave.
We know - from repeated referenda on the continent and in Ireland - that the peoples of the EU are profoundly unhappy with the European project. We also know that the framers of that project - Monnet and Schumann - hoped to advance integration by getting round democracy and never submitting their full vision to the verdict of voters. That approach has characterised the behaviour of EU leaders ever since.
But that approach could not, and will not, survive the assertion of deep democratic principle that would be the British people voting to leave. Our vote to Leave will liberate and strengthen those voices across the EU calling for a different future - those demanding the devolution of powers back from Brussels and desperate for a progressive alternative. For Greeks who have had to endure dreadful austerity measures, in order to secure bailouts from Brussels, which then go to pay off bankers demanding their due, a different Europe will be a liberation. For Spanish families whose children have had to endure years of joblessness and for whom a home and children of their own is a desperately distant prospect, a different Europe will be a liberation. For Portuguese citizens who have had to endure cuts to health, welfare and public services as the price of EU policies, a different Europe will be a liberation. For Italians whose elected Government was dismissed by Brussels fiat, for Danes whose opt-out from the Maastricht Treaty has been repeatedly overridden by the European Court, for Poles whose hard-won independence has been eroded by the European Commission, a different Europe will be a liberation. For Britain, voting to leave will be a galvanising, liberating, empowering moment of patriotic renewal. We will have rejected the depressing and pessimistic vision advanced by In campaigners that Britain is too small and weak and the British people too hapless and pathetic to manage their own affairs and choose their own future. But for Europe, Britain voting to leave will be the beginning of something potentially even more exciting - the democratic liberation of a whole Continent. If we vote to leave we will have - in the words of a former British Prime Minister - saved our country by our exertions and Europe by our example. We will have confirmed that we believe our best days lie ahead, that we believe our children can build a better future, that this country’s instincts and institutions, its people and its principles, are capable not just of making our society freer, fairer and richer but also once more of setting an inspirational example to the world. It is a noble ambition and one I hope this country will unite behind in the weeks to come.
I think he's absolving Greece of their hand in their misfortunes. They always had the option to leave.
Michael Gove gambles as he rejects single market membership Withdrawal from the single market, which the UK joined under Margaret Thatcher in 1986, would mean an end to the single market in financial services - one of the UK's greatest assets. When challenged on this point in the Q&A that followed, Gove insisted that the "ingenuity" of the City of London would allow it to continue to flourish. But Mark Carney and bank heads have warned of lost jobs, higher prices, fewer businesses and reduced investment.
The Leave campaign is attempting to overshadow this spectre by vowing that the UK would regain control of its borders and laws. Its hope is that anxiety over immigration and sovereignty will trump financial fears. But the Remain campaign, which has relentlessly focused on the economic case against withdrawal, is confident that its strategy will prevail. As recent losers Alex Salmond, Nigel Farage and Ed Miliband can testify, few have ever triumphed without without securing victory on this front.
... You don't have free trade if people aren't allowed to move around.
Wow, so I have automatic residency rights in Japan with the same access to benefits,etc. as any Japanese citizen. I never knew that.
Alternatively, acceptable trade is possible for both sides without having to have free movement of people.
Britain and Japan don't have free trade.
But we do seem to manage to trade together very well. How can that be? Surely we should not be able to buy Japanese made goods at acceptable prices unless we have a free trade deal - we have been told this repeatedly on here over recent weeks. Mr. Observer, gent of this parish, went so far as saying the absence of a free trade deal would mean a restriction in consumer choice.
What is now the Uk has been a member of what is now the EU only since 1973 but traded successfully with what became European countries and beyond for millennia before that. The idea that trade depends on the EU's idea of Free Movement of people is laughable.
Britain and Japan trade, but it's not free. Importing goods into Japan has numerous tariffs, non-tariff barriers, quotas and outright bans. Sometimes the shops run out of butter. I am not making this up.
Isn't that Japan's problem? If the people running the show are so fecking incompetnent as to fail to ensure their own peoples basic needs it says nothing about international trade. It is not as if there is an international shortage of milk.
It's also our problem if we want to sell them milk.
Sanders 50 - Clinton 49 in upstate New York apparently.
Blimey.
No, isn't it a pattern that Sanders does best in less populated areas, presumably because people there who register as Democrats are more likely to be ideological lefties? Conversely Clinton should do best in NYC itself.
There's a touch of clickbait about the theme, but it's funny and appears to be true, of Vote Leave's stance if not Gove's personal view. The basic problem is that Vote Leave is still papering over the divisions between supporters on what they actually want, because no specific alternative would be anywhere near a majority.
Obviously, Mr Palmer. And the same is true for Remain.
Our problem is that Cameron has come up with a question that means nothing, because it is so poorly defined; and hopes that he can get away with it. We all vote, and then Cameron decides what we voted for!
Is Cameron an unprincipled scoundrel, or just a bit thick?
Hmmmm... Can't say I'm best pleased with Vote Leave's goal.
As I thought, will it push you to back Remain?
This isn't Norway. This isn't even Switzerland.
I can't see how we would get access to the single European financial services passport under this plan.
That's why our firm's risk analysis on Brexit concluded Brexit was bad for us.
Look on the bright side, you get to open and visit a new office in every EU country in the event of Brexit
Even in a no-financial-passport scenario, you would only have to open one office in one EU country. You could trade from there across the EU.
But I presume the financial passport will be negotiated in, though.
It was more based on Dominic Cummings' view/hopes
You might be right, but the consistent attitude that you are cleverer than all of the parties, and clearly have real all the papers they have, are party to all the side discussion that they have been, and know all the people that they know is an interesting one.
I would call that a radical interpretation of the facts.
Our Brexit impact report was headed by someone planning to vote Leave, he called in various experts in the field and produced a report that said Brexit was not in the firm's interest.
I know it was an excellent report, in that I had nothing to do with it.
I don't mean that, I mean the level of pontification about say Article 50. "Oh really" say all the Remainers "how is he going to leave without Article 50". Well let's just think a minute, Gove is the Justice Minister, he has been looking at EU law issues for the past couple of years, maybe in that time he has spoken to a few EU politicians, possibly a few ECJ judges, for certain quite a lot of senior lawyers, and maybe received advice that there are alternate possibilities. I have no idea with this is the actual case, but neither does anyone else here, so sitting in our armchairs poo-pooing Gove as some sort of idiot on this basis does look a trifle premature.
I don't think anyone's suggesting that you couldn't leave without invoking Article 50. What's bizarre is why he's chosen to drop that particular red herring on the table. It's like saying that I want to drive from London to Wakefield but I don't have to use the M1 (or A1); I could go via Bristol. It might be true but it's a complete irrelevance.
"The Remain camp has realised it has a problem on this front and is seeking to address it. I understand that Craig Oliver, Downing Street’s director of communications, is soon to take control of the Stronger In campaign’s messaging and strategy. No 10 believes it needs to be beefed up if it is to win over undecided voters and cope with the attacks from Vote Leave. It will be interesting to see how Mr Oliver’s team will gel with Will Straw, the campaign director, .."
If we're playing the caricature game, Remain aspires to be a battered spouse who wants to have influence with the thug with whom they share a marriage.
If you had to find a way to destroy a brand and blow a $9 billion valuation, you’d be hard pressed to come up with a better plan than the one Holmes has pursued since October 16, 2015. If you had just six months to kill Theranos, this is how you’d do it:
Hmmmm... Can't say I'm best pleased with Vote Leave's goal.
As I thought, will it push you to back Remain?
This isn't Norway. This isn't even Switzerland.
I can't see how we would get access to the single European financial services passport under this plan.
That's why our firm's risk analysis on Brexit concluded Brexit was bad for us.
Look on the bright side, you get to open and visit a new office in every EU country in the event of Brexit
Some of us are voting on more than what's convenient for our firm.
When I worked for the Big 4 a competition commission break-up of the cartel would have negatively impacted me, and I probably would have needed to look for another job.
I still supported it. Same when I worked for BAA when it still owned Gatwick.
I should have also added, bad for the wider economy too.
Ignore my tweet, and my comments, and just look at Robert's first comment on this thread.
If he's not best pleased with that Vote Leave are proposing, then it is a mistake by Vote Leave.
I respectfully disagree.
I am satisfied with the evidence provided by Open Europe and Capital Economics that it would not be negative for the wider economy.
Robert is big enough to make his own mind up. So am I.
Quite. Much as I respect him for running a successful business, I don't feel the need to agree with him on every issue, especially as he spent several weeks behaving in an exceptionally ill-bred manner toward me, apparently due to me being a KGB agent.
"Ill-bred"
History suggests that insulting his Dad's parenting skills can limit your ongoing involvement with PB
Michael Gove gambles as he rejects single market membership Withdrawal from the single market, which the UK joined under Margaret Thatcher in 1986, would mean an end to the single market in financial services - one of the UK's greatest assets. When challenged on this point in the Q&A that followed, Gove insisted that the "ingenuity" of the City of London would allow it to continue to flourish. But Mark Carney and bank heads have warned of lost jobs, higher prices, fewer businesses and reduced investment.
The Leave campaign is attempting to overshadow this spectre by vowing that the UK would regain control of its borders and laws. Its hope is that anxiety over immigration and sovereignty will trump financial fears. But the Remain campaign, which has relentlessly focused on the economic case against withdrawal, is confident that its strategy will prevail. As recent losers Alex Salmond, Nigel Farage and Ed Miliband can testify, few have ever triumphed without without securing victory on this front.
Sceptical about any article which thinks that the UK joined the single market in 1986. The only explanation I can think of is that's when the SEA was agreed.
"If the pollsters are still making the sort of errors that got the election result so woefully wrong a year ago, then Britain’s future in Europe looks bleak indeed. Even on the face of things the ‘Leave’ campaign is doing comparatively well, and is running ‘Remain’ dangerously close. If the number of older voters is again being underestimated – these, after all, are the ones who are the most Eurosceptic and most likely to turn out at the polling stations – then the country is on track for a political earthquake that will make last year’s general election upset feel like mere indigestion."
How about PB moderators, that we have a thread or 2 devoted to analysing the polling companies weightings and assumptions for turnout and how much each has taken on board the lessons from GE2015? Why not invite each company to come on here and explain why their current polling is the best?
Actually I have put a few feelers out there with the pollsters I know, unfortunately three of them have had to decline, as they have/are working for the campaign groups in this referendum, and they feel any public pieces/predictions/analysis maybe over analysed by everyone, especially the opposing side, and that's before getting around any confidentially clauses.
I don't think anyone's suggesting that you couldn't leave without invoking Article 50. What's bizarre is why he's chosen to drop that particular red herring on the table. It's like saying that I want to drive from London to Wakefield but I don't have to use the M1 (or A1); I could go via Bristol. It might be true but it's a complete irrelevance.
It's certainly being used as supposed point scoring by the Scott_P tendency, odd if its a complete irrelevance.
Sanders 50 - Clinton 49 in upstate New York apparently.
Blimey.
No, isn't it a pattern that Sanders does best in less populated areas, presumably because people there who register as Democrats are more likely to be ideological lefties? Conversely Clinton should do best in NYC itself.
I was more thinking of the latter point, Clinton was a Senator for New York for eight years I think.
Truly bizarre helicopter in the sky over my house. Like a drone but massively sized up. Faintly sci-fi. Obama heading for the US Ambassador's House in Regent's Park?
Clinton's backers are more heavily concentrated in the New York City area, where Sanders has been campaigning recently, the poll found; she had the support of 61 percent of polled voters in New York City, 60 percent in the nearby suburbs and 49 percent in upstate New York.
Meanwhile, half of the likely voters polled upstate said they planned to vote for Sanders. The Brooklyn-born politician had the support of 35 percent of likely voters in New York City and 36 percent in the suburbs.
Sanders 50 - Clinton 49 in upstate New York apparently.
Blimey.
No, isn't it a pattern that Sanders does best in less populated areas, presumably because people there who register as Democrats are more likely to be ideological lefties? Conversely Clinton should do best in NYC itself.
I was more thinking of the latter point, Clinton was a Senator for New York for eight years I think.
@bbclaurak: Vote Leave asked if they hope Brexit would trigger the end of the whole EU ? 'Certainly'
And Michael Gove has said in black and white that's not what he's asking for - he's asking for fundamental democratic reform of it.
so are you saying remainers are spinning Leave = Gove ?
I'm saying I don't trust the BBC on this issue (even Richard Nabavi knows which side their bread is buttered) and I don't know the context of the Vote Leave spokesman quote.
But I do know what Gove said, and that the two will be fully aligned on this.
Truly bizarre helicopter in the sky over my house. Like a drone but massively sized up. Faintly sci-fi. Obama heading for the US Ambassador's House in Regent's Park?
@bbclaurak: Vote Leave asked if they hope Brexit would trigger the end of the whole EU ? 'Certainly'
Haven't seen the news so just picking up on that comment if Gove said it he is a tit
This referendum is proving to be a great destroyer of reputations - nearly all of them Conservative - Cameron, Osborne, Gove, javid - who's next ?
While I disagree with him, surely if you advocate Leave then the arguments about sovereignty apply for Britain apply equally well for any other country? If membership is bad for Britain, why wouldn't it be bad for others; hence wouldn't it be better for everyone - including Britain - if the whole thing was wound up?
It's not an argument I agree with but if the initial proposition is valid then there is a line of logic that runs on from it to the conclusion.
@bbclaurak: Vote Leave asked if they hope Brexit would trigger the end of the whole EU ? 'Certainly'
Haven't seen the news so just picking up on that comment if Gove said it he is a tit
This referendum is proving to be a great destroyer of reputations - nearly all of them Conservative - Cameron, Osborne, Gove, javid - who's next ?
It'll all look different the other side of the referendum.
not in the least, the amazing thing about this campaign is how Conservatives are trashing each other. it's one thing to fight a campaiggn it's another to do the opposition's job for them.
Truly bizarre helicopter in the sky over my house. Like a drone but massively sized up. Faintly sci-fi. Obama heading for the US Ambassador's House in Regent's Park?
@bbclaurak: Vote Leave asked if they hope Brexit would trigger the end of the whole EU ? 'Certainly'
Haven't seen the news so just picking up on that comment if Gove said it he is a tit
This referendum is proving to be a great destroyer of reputations - nearly all of them Conservative - Cameron, Osborne, Gove, javid - who's next ?
Gove didn't say that.
Gove said that if you vote leave you will trigger a great democratic contagion in Europe. He portrayed us as the saviour of a continent crying out for change.
That's quite a positive vision for the future, for me.
@bbclaurak: Vote Leave asked if they hope Brexit would trigger the end of the whole EU ? 'Certainly'
And Michael Gove has said in black and white that's not what he's asking for - he's asking for fundamental democratic reform of it.
so are you saying remainers are spinning Leave = Gove ?
I'm saying I don't trust the BBC on this issue .
So Laura Kuennsberg is lying, or is she part of John Redwood's global conspiracy?
Well apparently these days 48% source their news from the Beeb while only 6% do from the Sun/Mail, the 2 best selling papers so how the Beeb reports things matters.
Clinton's backers are more heavily concentrated in the New York City area, where Sanders has been campaigning recently, the poll found; she had the support of 61 percent of polled voters in New York City, 60 percent in the nearby suburbs and 49 percent in upstate New York.
Meanwhile, half of the likely voters polled upstate said they planned to vote for Sanders. The Brooklyn-born politician had the support of 35 percent of likely voters in New York City and 36 percent in the suburbs.
Cheers. So pretty much in line with other recent polling then, statewide.
Truly bizarre helicopter in the sky over my house. Like a drone but massively sized up. Faintly sci-fi. Obama heading for the US Ambassador's House in Regent's Park?
Gove said that if you vote leave you will trigger a great democratic contagion in Europe. He portrayed us as the saviour of a continent crying out for change.
That's quite a positive vision for the future, for me.
But maybe not for the EU apparatchiks and governments we'd be negotiating with.
Truly bizarre helicopter in the sky over my house. Like a drone but massively sized up. Faintly sci-fi. Obama heading for the US Ambassador's House in Regent's Park?
Truly bizarre helicopter in the sky over my house. Like a drone but massively sized up. Faintly sci-fi. Obama heading for the US Ambassador's House in Regent's Park?
@bbclaurak: Vote Leave asked if they hope Brexit would trigger the end of the whole EU ? 'Certainly'
Haven't seen the news so just picking up on that comment if Gove said it he is a tit
This referendum is proving to be a great destroyer of reputations - nearly all of them Conservative - Cameron, Osborne, Gove, javid - who's next ?
Gove didn't say that.
Gove said that if you vote leave you will trigger a great democratic contagion in Europe. He portrayed us as the saviour of a continent crying out for change.
That's quite a positive vision for the future, for me.
Not only do I now want Gove as the Conservatives next leader and PM, I think I want to marry him.
@bbclaurak: Vote Leave asked if they hope Brexit would trigger the end of the whole EU ? 'Certainly'
Haven't seen the news so just picking up on that comment if Gove said it he is a tit
This referendum is proving to be a great destroyer of reputations - nearly all of them Conservative - Cameron, Osborne, Gove, javid - who's next ?
It'll all look different the other side of the referendum.
not in the least, the amazing thing about this campaign is how Conservatives are trashing each other. it's one thing to fight a campaiggn it's another to do the opposition's job for them.
the expression "rue the day " springs to mind.
It's certainly quite a spectacle but they're professional politicians. They know how to pull a We Have Always Been At War With Eastasia.
The voters don't like divided parties and there will be some long-term damage, but I think at some level the voters understand that it's a performance as well; As long as they're saying their lines right by the time the election comes around they'll forgive the temporary realignment.
Gove said that if you vote leave you will trigger a great democratic contagion in Europe. He portrayed us as the saviour of a continent crying out for change.
That's quite a positive vision for the future, for me.
But maybe not for the EU apparatchiks and governments we'd be negotiating with.
You're correct of course, but Gove is calculating they'd be under pressure from their own electorates.
He may be right, he may be wrong, but as a conservative I am very, very pleased and relieved Gove has said what he has said.
"If the pollsters are still making the sort of errors that got the election result so woefully wrong a year ago, then Britain’s future in Europe looks bleak indeed. Even on the face of things the ‘Leave’ campaign is doing comparatively well, and is running ‘Remain’ dangerously close. If the number of older voters is again being underestimated – these, after all, are the ones who are the most Eurosceptic and most likely to turn out at the polling stations – then the country is on track for a political earthquake that will make last year’s general election upset feel like mere indigestion."
How about PB moderators, that we have a thread or 2 devoted to analysing the polling companies weightings and assumptions for turnout and how much each has taken on board the lessons from GE2015? Why not invite each company to come on here and explain why their current polling is the best?
Actually I have put a few feelers out there with the pollsters I know, unfortunately three of them have had to decline, as they have/are working for the campaign groups in this referendum, and they feel any public pieces/predictions/analysis maybe over analysed by everyone, especially the opposing side, and that's before getting around any confidentially clauses.
Thanks. What about having an open house session on each pollster when their next full tables are published?
@bbclaurak: Vote Leave asked if they hope Brexit would trigger the end of the whole EU ? 'Certainly'
Haven't seen the news so just picking up on that comment if Gove said it he is a tit
This referendum is proving to be a great destroyer of reputations - nearly all of them Conservative - Cameron, Osborne, Gove, javid - who's next ?
It'll all look different the other side of the referendum.
not in the least, the amazing thing about this campaign is how Conservatives are trashing each other. it's one thing to fight a campaiggn it's another to do the opposition's job for them.
the expression "rue the day " springs to mind.
Once the referendum is over, the Tory Party will unite and concentrate their firepower on Corbyn.
Truly bizarre helicopter in the sky over my house. Like a drone but massively sized up. Faintly sci-fi. Obama heading for the US Ambassador's House in Regent's Park?
"If the pollsters are still making the sort of errors that got the election result so woefully wrong a year ago, then Britain’s future in Europe looks bleak indeed. Even on the face of things the ‘Leave’ campaign is doing comparatively well, and is running ‘Remain’ dangerously close. If the number of older voters is again being underestimated – these, after all, are the ones who are the most Eurosceptic and most likely to turn out at the polling stations – then the country is on track for a political earthquake that will make last year’s general election upset feel like mere indigestion."
How about PB moderators, that we have a thread or 2 devoted to analysing the polling companies weightings and assumptions for turnout and how much each has taken on board the lessons from GE2015? Why not invite each company to come on here and explain why their current polling is the best?
Actually I have put a few feelers out there with the pollsters I know, unfortunately three of them have had to decline, as they have/are working for the campaign groups in this referendum, and they feel any public pieces/predictions/analysis maybe over analysed by everyone, especially the opposing side, and that's before getting around any confidentially clauses.
Thanks. What about having an open house session on each pollster when their next full tables are published?
Most of them already do that when their polls are published on their own websites
@bbclaurak: Vote Leave asked if they hope Brexit would trigger the end of the whole EU ? 'Certainly'
And Michael Gove has said in black and white that's not what he's asking for - he's asking for fundamental democratic reform of it.
so are you saying remainers are spinning Leave = Gove ?
I'm saying I don't trust the BBC on this issue .
So Laura Kuennsberg is lying, or is she part of John Redwood's global conspiracy?
She quoted him out of context. I found that context, and it did not say what you implied..
If she'd quoted Gove, you'd be right - but it appears she quoted a VoteLeave spinner - not Gove - otherwise she'd have written 'Gove' not 'VoteLeave'....
Gove said that if you vote leave you will trigger a great democratic contagion in Europe. He portrayed us as the saviour of a continent crying out for change.
That's quite a positive vision for the future, for me.
But maybe not for the EU apparatchiks and governments we'd be negotiating with.
You're correct of course, but Gove is calculating they'd be under pressure from their own electorates.
He may be right, he may be wrong, but as a conservative I am very, very pleased and relieved Gove has said what he has said.
Very clever. In one speech he's given all the peoples of Europe a reason to support Brexit.
Truly bizarre helicopter in the sky over my house. Like a drone but massively sized up. Faintly sci-fi. Obama heading for the US Ambassador's House in Regent's Park?
@bbclaurak: Vote Leave asked if they hope Brexit would trigger the end of the whole EU ? 'Certainly'
Haven't seen the news so just picking up on that comment if Gove said it he is a tit
This referendum is proving to be a great destroyer of reputations - nearly all of them Conservative - Cameron, Osborne, Gove, javid - who's next ?
Gove didn't say that.
Gove said that if you vote leave you will trigger a great democratic contagion in Europe. He portrayed us as the saviour of a continent crying out for change.
That's quite a positive vision for the future, for me.
Not only do I now want Gove as the Conservatives next leader and PM, I think I want to marry him.
You can thank David Cameron that that is even a remote possibility.
As I said in the last thread, it was the inevitable move if "Leave" wanted to have a chance of winning the Referendum.
If they were offering a post-Brexit deal which involved keeping freedom of movement, they would essentially be asking people to take on all the risks of change, without even the upside of sorting out one of the biggest problems (as the public sees it).
But clearly that is not what Carswell has been saying. He supports being in the EEA which includes freedom of movement. At least, that is my recollection.
It is difficult to keep with the Leave lot. So many different wish lists !
Truly bizarre helicopter in the sky over my house. Like a drone but massively sized up. Faintly sci-fi. Obama heading for the US Ambassador's House in Regent's Park?
As I said in the last thread, it was the inevitable move if "Leave" wanted to have a chance of winning the Referendum.
If they were offering a post-Brexit deal which involved keeping freedom of movement, they would essentially be asking people to take on all the risks of change, without even the upside of sorting out one of the biggest problems (as the public sees it).
But clearly that is not what Carswell has been saying. He supports being in the EEA which includes freedom of movement. At least, that is my recollection.
It is difficult to keep with the Leave lot. So many different wish lists !
Truly bizarre helicopter in the sky over my house. Like a drone but massively sized up. Faintly sci-fi. Obama heading for the US Ambassador's House in Regent's Park?
@bbclaurak: Vote Leave asked if they hope Brexit would trigger the end of the whole EU ? 'Certainly'
Haven't seen the news so just picking up on that comment if Gove said it he is a tit
This referendum is proving to be a great destroyer of reputations - nearly all of them Conservative - Cameron, Osborne, Gove, javid - who's next ?
Gove didn't say that.
Gove said that if you vote leave you will trigger a great democratic contagion in Europe. He portrayed us as the saviour of a continent crying out for change.
That's quite a positive vision for the future, for me.
Not only do I now want Gove as the Conservatives next leader and PM, I think I want to marry him.
You can thank David Cameron that that is even a remote possibility.
The chaos allegedly culminated in elected GOP delegate Gwen Brady being “shoved to the ground” during a scuffle over who will represent the locality at the 2016 Republican National Convention in Cleveland. According to the Virgin Islands GOP Vice Chairman Herb Schoenbohm, Brady was “slammed against the wall and thrown to the floor because she objected to the Gestapo-like tactics of the V.I. Chairman John Canegata.” The chairman, Schoenbohm claimed, used an ammunition cartridge as a gavel and walked around the St. Croix meeting while openly carrying a firearm.
@bbclaurak: Vote Leave asked if they hope Brexit would trigger the end of the whole EU ? 'Certainly'
Haven't seen the news so just picking up on that comment if Gove said it he is a tit
This referendum is proving to be a great destroyer of reputations - nearly all of them Conservative - Cameron, Osborne, Gove, javid - who's next ?
Don't forget Boris.
Do the Lib Dems intend joining the EURef conversation? I thought they were quite keen on the EU, or is it now an nth priority behind the elections to Little Dribblesome Town Council and the like for Farron?
@bbclaurak: Vote Leave asked if they hope Brexit would trigger the end of the whole EU ? 'Certainly'
Haven't seen the news so just picking up on that comment if Gove said it he is a tit
This referendum is proving to be a great destroyer of reputations - nearly all of them Conservative - Cameron, Osborne, Gove, javid - who's next ?
Don't forget Boris.
Do the Lib Dems intend joining the EURef conversation? I thought they were quite keen on the EU, or is it now an nth priority behind the elections to Little Dribblesome Town Council and the like for Farron?
Actually keeping their collective heads down may not be a bad strategy.
@bbclaurak: Vote Leave asked if they hope Brexit would trigger the end of the whole EU ? 'Certainly'
Haven't seen the news so just picking up on that comment if Gove said it he is a tit
This referendum is proving to be a great destroyer of reputations - nearly all of them Conservative - Cameron, Osborne, Gove, javid - who's next ?
Don't forget Boris.
Do the Lib Dems intend joining the EURef conversation? I thought they were quite keen on the EU, or is it now an nth priority behind the elections to Little Dribblesome Town Council and the like for Farron?
Actually keeping their collective heads down may not be a bad strategy.
As a senior manager observed when the company I worked for got into a public spat with its main competitor 'Two whores brawling in public will do none of us any good'.....
As I said in the last thread, it was the inevitable move if "Leave" wanted to have a chance of winning the Referendum.
If they were offering a post-Brexit deal which involved keeping freedom of movement, they would essentially be asking people to take on all the risks of change, without even the upside of sorting out one of the biggest problems (as the public sees it).
But clearly that is not what Carswell has been saying. He supports being in the EEA which includes freedom of movement. At least, that is my recollection.
It is difficult to keep with the Leave lot. So many different wish lists !
@bbclaurak: Vote Leave asked if they hope Brexit would trigger the end of the whole EU ? 'Certainly'
Haven't seen the news so just picking up on that comment if Gove said it he is a tit
This referendum is proving to be a great destroyer of reputations - nearly all of them Conservative - Cameron, Osborne, Gove, javid - who's next ?
Don't forget Boris.
Do the Lib Dems intend joining the EURef conversation? I thought they were quite keen on the EU, or is it now an nth priority behind the elections to Little Dribblesome Town Council and the like for Farron?
You are my favourite Remain poster. By a country mile.
Truly bizarre helicopter in the sky over my house. Like a drone but massively sized up. Faintly sci-fi. Obama heading for the US Ambassador's House in Regent's Park?
@bbclaurak: Vote Leave asked if they hope Brexit would trigger the end of the whole EU ? 'Certainly'
Haven't seen the news so just picking up on that comment if Gove said it he is a tit
This referendum is proving to be a great destroyer of reputations - nearly all of them Conservative - Cameron, Osborne, Gove, javid - who's next ?
Gove didn't say that.
Gove said that if you vote leave you will trigger a great democratic contagion in Europe. He portrayed us as the saviour of a continent crying out for change.
That's quite a positive vision for the future, for me.
Only yesterday Leavers berating Obama having an opinion on Brexit, now Gove has taken it up on himself to try and wreck the EU whether the other countries like it or not, he's either delusional or arrogant beyond belief.
Andrew Neil made a laughing stock of Matt Hancock on the Daily Politics.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgrB2yAPPlQ
six week ago...
Once a lightweight, always a lightweight. The desperate attempts by Remain to find a successor to failed negotiator David Cameron are struggling. Osborne, then Javid, then Crabb, now Hancock. Next thing you know they will go back to the incompetent Theresa May. It reminds me of the establishment Republicans.
@bbclaurak: Vote Leave asked if they hope Brexit would trigger the end of the whole EU ? 'Certainly'
Haven't seen the news so just picking up on that comment if Gove said it he is a tit
This referendum is proving to be a great destroyer of reputations - nearly all of them Conservative - Cameron, Osborne, Gove, javid - who's next ?
Gove didn't say that.
Gove said that if you vote leave you will trigger a great democratic contagion in Europe. He portrayed us as the saviour of a continent crying out for change.
That's quite a positive vision for the future, for me.
Only yesterday Leavers berating Obama having an opinion on Brexit, now Gove has taken it up on himself to try and wreck the EU whether the other countries like it or not, he's either delusional or arrogant beyond belief.
YO haven't even read what he said, or tried to put it in context.
@bbclaurak: Vote Leave asked if they hope Brexit would trigger the end of the whole EU ? 'Certainly'
Haven't seen the news so just picking up on that comment if Gove said it he is a tit
This referendum is proving to be a great destroyer of reputations - nearly all of them Conservative - Cameron, Osborne, Gove, javid - who's next ?
Gove didn't say that.
Gove said that if you vote leave you will trigger a great democratic contagion in Europe. He portrayed us as the saviour of a continent crying out for change.
That's quite a positive vision for the future, for me.
Only yesterday Leavers berating Obama having an opinion on Brexit, now Gove has taken it up on himself to try and wreck the EU whether the other countries like it or not, he's either delusional or arrogant beyond belief.
Except that he hasn't.
There are plenty of parties in the member states across Europe - UKIP most notably in the UK's case - which are dedicated to wrecking the EU. What's more, the EU even has a place for them within its institutions, subject to their electoral appeal. But what Gove said was different; not that he wanted to actively break up the Union but that it could easily come organically via democratic pressures following a Brexit.
Frankly, the EU does need to address its democratic deficit and whether there's Brexit or not, the pressures will remain.
@bbclaurak: Vote Leave asked if they hope Brexit would trigger the end of the whole EU ? 'Certainly'
Haven't seen the news so just picking up on that comment if Gove said it he is a tit
This referendum is proving to be a great destroyer of reputations - nearly all of them Conservative - Cameron, Osborne, Gove, javid - who's next ?
Gove didn't say that.
Gove said that if you vote leave you will trigger a great democratic contagion in Europe. He portrayed us as the saviour of a continent crying out for change.
That's quite a positive vision for the future, for me.
Only yesterday Leavers berating Obama having an opinion on Brexit, now Gove has taken it up on himself to try and wreck the EU whether the other countries like it or not, he's either delusional or arrogant beyond belief.
Gove is doing what is in the interests of the UK.
It happens to be in the best interests of everyone else on the continent too (although not their elite), but that's just a spectacularly lucky bonus ball for everybody.
Andrew Neil made a laughing stock of Matt Hancock on the Daily Politics.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgrB2yAPPlQ
six week ago...
Once a lightweight, always a lightweight. The desperate attempts by Remain to find a successor to failed negotiator David Cameron are struggling. Osborne, then Javid, then Crabb, now Hancock. Next thing you know they will go back to the incompetent Theresa May. It reminds me of the establishment Republicans.
I didn't see that Remainers were saying that If Remain win a Reaminer has to be the next leader of the Conservative party. And I especially haven't seen Hancock's name floated about except in jest.
@bbclaurak: Vote Leave asked if they hope Brexit would trigger the end of the whole EU ? 'Certainly'
Haven't seen the news so just picking up on that comment if Gove said it he is a tit
This referendum is proving to be a great destroyer of reputations - nearly all of them Conservative - Cameron, Osborne, Gove, javid - who's next ?
Gove didn't say that.
Gove said that if you vote leave you will trigger a great democratic contagion in Europe. He portrayed us as the saviour of a continent crying out for change.
That's quite a positive vision for the future, for me.
Only yesterday Leavers berating Obama having an opinion on Brexit, now Gove has taken it up on himself to try and wreck the EU whether the other countries like it or not, he's either delusional or arrogant beyond belief.
He's not saying they must leave. To argue we should remain in otherwise it would fall apart is pretty weak.
Truly bizarre helicopter in the sky over my house. Like a drone but massively sized up. Faintly sci-fi. Obama heading for the US Ambassador's House in Regent's Park?
@bbclaurak: Vote Leave asked if they hope Brexit would trigger the end of the whole EU ? 'Certainly'
Haven't seen the news so just picking up on that comment if Gove said it he is a tit
This referendum is proving to be a great destroyer of reputations - nearly all of them Conservative - Cameron, Osborne, Gove, javid - who's next ?
Don't forget Boris.
Do the Lib Dems intend joining the EURef conversation? I thought they were quite keen on the EU, or is it now an nth priority behind the elections to Little Dribblesome Town Council and the like for Farron?
Actually keeping their collective heads down may not be a bad strategy.
So winning a seat on a Town Council is more important to them than fighting to protect a cornerstone of their foreign policy? How they've fallen.
Truly bizarre helicopter in the sky over my house. Like a drone but massively sized up. Faintly sci-fi. Obama heading for the US Ambassador's House in Regent's Park?
Comments
"Leaving would also bring another significant - and under-appreciated - benefit. It would lead to the reform of the European Union."
Manifestly both cannot be true. An EU without the UK cannot simultaneously be a super-charged leviathan bent on revenge and a crumbling Tower of Babel riven by conflict.
But both points have a grain of truth. There will be anger amongst some in European elites. Not because the UK is destined for a bleak, impoverished future on the outside. No, quite the opposite.
What will enrage, and disorientate, EU elites is the UK’s success outside the Union. Regaining control over our laws, taxes and borders and forging new trade deals while also shedding unnecessary regulation will enhance our competitive advantage over other EU nations. Our superior growth rate, and better growth prospects, will only strengthen. Our attractiveness to inward investors and our influence on the world stage will only grow.
But while this might provoke both angst and even resentment among EU elites, the UK’s success will send a very different message to the EU’s peoples. They will see that a different Europe is possible. It is possible to regain democratic control of your own country and currency, to trade and co-operate with other EU nations without surrendering fundamental sovereignty to a remote and unelected bureaucracy. And, by following that path, your people are richer, your influence for good greater, your future brighter.
So - yes there will be “contagion” if Britain leaves the EU. But what will be catching is democracy. There will be a new demand for more effective institutions to enable the more flexible kind of international cooperation we will need as technological and economic forces transform the world."
But that approach could not, and will not, survive the assertion of deep democratic principle that would be the British people voting to leave.
Our vote to Leave will liberate and strengthen those voices across the EU calling for a different future - those demanding the devolution of powers back from Brussels and desperate for a progressive alternative.
For Greeks who have had to endure dreadful austerity measures, in order to secure bailouts from Brussels, which then go to pay off bankers demanding their due, a different Europe will be a liberation.
For Spanish families whose children have had to endure years of joblessness and for whom a home and children of their own is a desperately distant prospect, a different Europe will be a liberation.
For Portuguese citizens who have had to endure cuts to health, welfare and public services as the price of EU policies, a different Europe will be a liberation.
For Italians whose elected Government was dismissed by Brussels fiat, for Danes whose opt-out from the Maastricht Treaty has been repeatedly overridden by the European Court, for Poles whose hard-won independence has been eroded by the European Commission, a different Europe will be a liberation.
For Britain, voting to leave will be a galvanising, liberating, empowering moment of patriotic renewal.
We will have rejected the depressing and pessimistic vision advanced by In campaigners that Britain is too small and weak and the British people too hapless and pathetic to manage their own affairs and choose their own future.
But for Europe, Britain voting to leave will be the beginning of something potentially even more exciting - the democratic liberation of a whole Continent.
If we vote to leave we will have - in the words of a former British Prime Minister - saved our country by our exertions and Europe by our example.
We will have confirmed that we believe our best days lie ahead, that we believe our children can build a better future, that this country’s instincts and institutions, its people and its principles, are capable not just of making our society freer, fairer and richer but also once more of setting an inspirational example to the world. It is a noble ambition and one I hope this country will unite behind in the weeks to come.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36083664
....not only has nobody ever managed to get the deal the Leave campaign wants, nobody has tried either.
Withdrawal from the single market, which the UK joined under Margaret Thatcher in 1986, would mean an end to the single market in financial services - one of the UK's greatest assets. When challenged on this point in the Q&A that followed, Gove insisted that the "ingenuity" of the City of London would allow it to continue to flourish. But Mark Carney and bank heads have warned of lost jobs, higher prices, fewer businesses and reduced investment.
The Leave campaign is attempting to overshadow this spectre by vowing that the UK would regain control of its borders and laws. Its hope is that anxiety over immigration and sovereignty will trump financial fears. But the Remain campaign, which has relentlessly focused on the economic case against withdrawal, is confident that its strategy will prevail. As recent losers Alex Salmond, Nigel Farage and Ed Miliband can testify, few have ever triumphed without without securing victory on this front.
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/04/michael-gove-gambles-he-rejects-single-market-membership
Our problem is that Cameron has come up with a question that means nothing, because it is so poorly defined; and hopes that he can get away with it. We all vote, and then Cameron decides what we voted for!
Is Cameron an unprincipled scoundrel, or just a bit thick?
Sebastian Payne ✔ @SebastianEPayne
The Remain campaign has a passion problem.. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e9de360a-0618-11e6-a70d-4e39ac32c284.html … via @FT
"The Remain camp has realised it has a problem on this front and is seeking to address it. I understand that Craig Oliver, Downing Street’s director of communications, is soon to take control of the Stronger In campaign’s messaging and strategy. No 10 believes it needs to be beefed up if it is to win over undecided voters and cope with the attacks from Vote Leave. It will be interesting to see how Mr Oliver’s team will gel with Will Straw, the campaign director, .."
If we're playing the caricature game, Remain aspires to be a battered spouse who wants to have influence with the thug with whom they share a marriage.
http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/2016/04/15/theranos-how-to-blow-9-billion-in-6-months.html
History suggests that insulting his Dad's parenting skills can limit your ongoing involvement with PB
This referendum is proving to be a great destroyer of reputations - nearly all of them Conservative - Cameron, Osborne, Gove, javid - who's next ?
Clinton's backers are more heavily concentrated in the New York City area, where Sanders has been campaigning recently, the poll found; she had the support of 61 percent of polled voters in New York City, 60 percent in the nearby suburbs and 49 percent in upstate New York.
Meanwhile, half of the likely voters polled upstate said they planned to vote for Sanders. The Brooklyn-born politician had the support of 35 percent of likely voters in New York City and 36 percent in the suburbs.
But I do know what Gove said, and that the two will be fully aligned on this.
http://www.whitehousedossier.com/2016/04/18/obama-schedule-week-april-18-april-24-2016/
It's not an argument I agree with but if the initial proposition is valid then there is a line of logic that runs on from it to the conclusion.
The politics, on the other hand ...
the expression "rue the day " springs to mind.
Sounds like a good(ish) bargaining position to start from.
That's quite a positive vision for the future, for me.
It's touching if you find the BBC fully objective in this. I prefer to maintain a healthy scepticism.
Heaven forbid you just repasted it because you thought it'd support your side.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_One
The voters don't like divided parties and there will be some long-term damage, but I think at some level the voters understand that it's a performance as well; As long as they're saying their lines right by the time the election comes around they'll forgive the temporary realignment.
He may be right, he may be wrong, but as a conservative I am very, very pleased and relieved Gove has said what he has said.
We'll all sing Kumbaya afterwards too
It is difficult to keep with the Leave lot. So many different wish lists !
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-expresses-interest-in-v-22-osprey/
http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2016/04/18/virgin-islands-gop-meeting-at-gun-range-turns-violent.html
The chaos allegedly culminated in elected GOP delegate Gwen Brady being “shoved to the ground” during a scuffle over who will represent the locality at the 2016 Republican National Convention in Cleveland. According to the Virgin Islands GOP Vice Chairman Herb Schoenbohm, Brady was “slammed against the wall and thrown to the floor because she objected to the Gestapo-like tactics of the V.I. Chairman John Canegata.” The chairman, Schoenbohm claimed, used an ammunition cartridge as a gavel and walked around the St. Croix meeting while openly carrying a firearm.
Are the positions of Carswell, Farage, Gove, Johnson etc. etc the same regarding what form of Leave they want ?
SPOILER ALERT. No.....
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgrB2yAPPlQ
What was that again about using political capital?
Cameron and Osborne may need a bailout.
There are plenty of parties in the member states across Europe - UKIP most notably in the UK's case - which are dedicated to wrecking the EU. What's more, the EU even has a place for them within its institutions, subject to their electoral appeal. But what Gove said was different; not that he wanted to actively break up the Union but that it could easily come organically via democratic pressures following a Brexit.
Frankly, the EU does need to address its democratic deficit and whether there's Brexit or not, the pressures will remain.
It happens to be in the best interests of everyone else on the continent too (although not their elite), but that's just a spectacularly lucky bonus ball for everybody.
Plus, there's a Tesla supercharger on the way.