It starts well, but the second sentence starts with a conjunction. And sets my head spinning.
lol. You sound like the Times sub editors, as you probably know. I am constantly at war with them over sentences beginning with conjunctions. But then I tell them about the first thirty one verses of the King James Bible, written by GOD. And they go quiet.
I bet you go out of your way to provokingly write sentences which end in prepositions, too. That is something up with which we should not put. And let's not get into split definitives - that will get someone's blood pressure up.
If any PBers do get a postcard from a grandchild about the EU, I hope they feel willing the share the details, I think analysing the wording of such a card would be hilarious.
There's another campaign out for people from the continent to 'Hug a Brit' to get us to stay in as well. I make no comment.
LOL. That will work. Brits have probably the largest personal space of any of the 27 nations, so fellow Europeans are being encouraged to invade it That will persuade us, but not perhaps in the manner intended.
I like the way it cuts off after "a country whose most revered historical figure was a drunken womaniser who" ... I like to imagine that sentence ends "is now writing this piece".
I see many barriers to insurgent parties, and I think UKIP in particularly have done about as well as could be expected. But my point is not so much about insurgent parties but what 'the establishment' offers. If discontentment with the bland, samey offering of the big two (formerly the big 2.5) was bad enough it would, even with the barriers to insurgent parties, start costing them, and they would change their offerings accordingly in order to combat those insurgent parties.
Labour members seem to feel the time to change their offering has come, to be even more distinct than before even if it means being labelled by some as extreme. We shall see in a few years if that is the case, and they are rewarded for striking a different tone.
Meanwhile, we know the Tories offered a referendum because of insurgent attitudes on the EU, and so they changed their position. If dissatisfaction in other areas rises, they too will change things up.
What happens is disillusionment sets in and turnout goes down. Which is fine by the establishment parties. They exhort people to turn out more, but it's a little like Argos or Google saying 'Please please please read this IMPORTANT terms and conditions document - followed by reams and reams of unintelligible text' - it doesn't work, they know it doesn't work, and we know they know it doesn't work.
“We have already trialled these postcards at a number of the universities, where they have been shifted like hot cakes. So when young people next share a slice of cake and a cup of tea with their gran, they can tell them proudly that the positive, progressive and patriotic choice is to vote to remain.”
You are right - it's unbelievably patronising. Gran should reply about having a chat about the wisdom that comes with age!
I think one of the postcards BSE have made says something along the lines of, "I know I havn't talked to you in ages but I think you should vote to remain in the EU". I would imagine that would only serve to piss the grandparents off even more and do the opposite of what they are being asked to do.
I suspect that the real agenda of the campaign is more to engage the youngsters than convert the Gran. The more young people registered and campaigning for Remain the better. I suspect not many cards will be sent.
What happens is disillusionment sets in and turnout goes down. Which is fine by the establishment parties. They exhort people to turn out more, but it's a little like Argos or Google saying 'Please please please read this IMPORTANT terms and conditions document - followed by reams and reams of unintelligible text' - it doesn't work, they know it doesn't work, and we know they know it doesn't work.
Turnout has increased three General Elections in a row (if only marginally last time).
@DPJHodges: If you haven't seen Boris Johnson's interview with @bbclaurak you need to have a look. Seriously out there. Starts banging on about the CIA.
@paddyashdown: Brexit: Bnk of England wrong. IMF wrong. NATO wrong. EU wrong. C'wealth wrong Obama wrong. Boris right OK But wld you bet the country on it?
Appeals to authority don't work as well as they used to.
Quite. Personally I would take Boris' advice over the combined advice of the IMF, NATO, the BOE and the EU any day of the week and twice on Sundays. And I'm not even a particular Boris fan.
He was very blinky in the Laura K interview - I don't think he particularly believes what he's saying (but I think that would be the same if he was arguing unequivocally for Remain), but he is warming to his theme, he is getting out of second gear, and good for him.
You would take Boris' advice over the IMF/ NATO/ BOE etc any day and a couple of sentences late "I don't think he particularly believes what he's saying". Interesting thought process
If any PBers do get a postcard from a grandchild about the EU, I hope they feel willing the share the details, I think analysing the wording of such a card would be hilarious.
There's another campaign out for people from the continent to 'Hug a Brit' to get us to stay in as well. I make no comment.
Well my wife does that every day but she's a Eurosceptic Dane...
If any PBers do get a postcard from a grandchild about the EU, I hope they feel willing the share the details, I think analysing the wording of such a card would be hilarious.
Far too sensible. REMAIN have some wonderful experienced campaigning people in their team (outside of the Conservatives). Folk from the Labour GE 2015 campaign, people that were in the losing team of the AV and people from LD HQ GE2015, including their overall strategy head for GE2015. What could go wrong with that talent?
If any PBers do get a postcard from a grandchild about the EU, I hope they feel willing the share the details, I think analysing the wording of such a card would be hilarious.
There's another campaign out for people from the continent to 'Hug a Brit' to get us to stay in as well. I make no comment.
There's a small (tiny) element of merit in it that 'the others' in the EU are an element of 'Remain', just as the RUK was a part of the 'Better Together' campaign. This is just a tragically hamfisted and patronising (does anyone spot a theme?) way of doing it.
My response to it is that I love hugs, love Europeans, just don't like the political institution that is the EU.
Freedom of movement for qualified, useful people that will contribute to society from anywhere in the world, for criminals, terrorist supporters and spongers, not so much... or as it is known in Canada and Australia, a points based system.
The 2 Glasgow airport bombers were respectively a doctor and an PHD engineering student (though the former was in fact UK born). Not simple to winnow out the contributors from the 'criminals, terrorist supporters and spongers'.
The 7/7, Brussels and Paris terrorists were also not migrants. Even the 9/11 terrorists had legitimate study visas to be in the USA.
Yes yes... so what is your point, that because we can't make a system perfect we shouldn't make it better ? Would like you like to bet if the 9/11 terrorists could get a study visa to the USA now, under the current regime ? Or is it because something about controlling who comes into the country offends your liberal values you are waving your hands around.
No, I am entirely in favour of reducing migration from places where jihadists roam, and restricting spouse and family settlement, and an active deportation policy are all part of that.
Oh, I thought you were in favour of freedom of movement.
Houdini would struggle with the knots you tie yourself in.
I am in favour of freedom of movement between European democracies that broadly share the same values, but not with countries with incompatable cultural beliefs.
@DPJHodges: If you haven't seen Boris Johnson's interview with @bbclaurak you need to have a look. Seriously out there. Starts banging on about the CIA.
@paddyashdown: Brexit: Bnk of England wrong. IMF wrong. NATO wrong. EU wrong. C'wealth wrong Obama wrong. Boris right OK But wld you bet the country on it?
Appeals to authority don't work as well as they used to.
The establishment need to be believed to be both competent and fair for it to work.
Instead they told us:
The banks are well run There will not be a recession in 2008 Politicians expenses are honest Elections in Tower Hamlets and fair Nothing is happening in Rotherham Stafford hospital is safe Kids company is a deserving charity There will be no more than 15,000 immigrants from Eastern Europe Saddam Hussein has WMD
All sadly true. Yet, when I was younger, I used to trust my leaders. Perhaps that helps sum up why young people are more pro-EU than older voters, who've grown cynical.
Same here. As you go through life, the times when the establishment proves to be less than honest mount up. Eventually it reaches someone's tipping point.
Leave are overwhelmingly of the more experienced generation(s). Remain, less so.
You mean they are mainly OAPs who, let's face, have least to worry about if Brexit is an economic disaster.
“We have already trialled these postcards at a number of the universities, where they have been shifted like hot cakes. So when young people next share a slice of cake and a cup of tea with their gran, they can tell them proudly that the positive, progressive and patriotic choice is to vote to remain.”
You are right - it's unbelievably patronising. Gran should reply about having a chat about the wisdom that comes with age!
I think one of the postcards BSE have made says something along the lines of, "I know I havn't talked to you in ages but I think you should vote to remain in the EU". I would imagine that would only serve to piss the grandparents off even more and do the opposite of what they are being asked to do.
I suspect that the real agenda of the campaign is more to engage the youngsters than convert the Gran. The more young people registered and campaigning for Remain the better. I suspect not many cards will be sent.
@DPJHodges: If you haven't seen Boris Johnson's interview with @bbclaurak you need to have a look. Seriously out there. Starts banging on about the CIA.
@paddyashdown: Brexit: Bnk of England wrong. IMF wrong. NATO wrong. EU wrong. C'wealth wrong Obama wrong. Boris right OK But wld you bet the country on it?
Appeals to authority don't work as well as they used to.
Quite. Personally I would take Boris' advice over the combined advice of the IMF, NATO, the BOE and the EU any day of the week and twice on Sundays. And I'm not even a particular Boris fan.
He was very blinky in the Laura K interview - I don't think he particularly believes what he's saying (but I think that would be the same if he was arguing unequivocally for Remain), but he is warming to his theme, he is getting out of second gear, and good for him.
You would take Boris' advice over the IMF/ NATO/ BOE etc any day and a couple of sentences late "I don't think he particularly believes what he's saying". Interesting thought process
Not really, I've said I'm not a fan. The difference is, anything that NATO, the IMF, the EU, and the BOE told me was correct and going to happen, I would actively think the opposite - and would advise anyone else to do the same. Boris on the other hand is making good arguments I broadly agree with, I just think he's doing so for career reasons.
@DPJHodges: If you haven't seen Boris Johnson's interview with @bbclaurak you need to have a look. Seriously out there. Starts banging on about the CIA.
@paddyashdown: Brexit: Bnk of England wrong. IMF wrong. NATO wrong. EU wrong. C'wealth wrong Obama wrong. Boris right OK But wld you bet the country on it?
Appeals to authority don't work as well as they used to.
The establishment need to be believed to be both competent and fair for it to work.
Instead they told us:
The banks are well run There will not be a recession in 2008 Politicians expenses are honest Elections in Tower Hamlets and fair Nothing is happening in Rotherham Stafford hospital is safe Kids company is a deserving charity There will be no more than 15,000 immigrants from Eastern Europe Saddam Hussein has WMD
All sadly true. Yet, when I was younger, I used to trust my leaders. Perhaps that helps sum up why young people are more pro-EU than older voters, who've grown cynical.
Same here. As you go through life, the times when the establishment proves to be less than honest mount up. Eventually it reaches someone's tipping point.
Leave are overwhelmingly of the more experienced generation(s). Remain, less so.
You mean they are mainly OAPs who, let's face, have least to worry about if Brexit is an economic disaster.
I read your piece in the Speccy. Enjoyed it very much. I don't agree with the conclusion (though I felt you were slightly tongue in cheek) because I don't think Europe can afford to turn away or heavily surcharge Chinese and Indian tourists. It's one of the few ways we have of getting a bit of the money we've spent back. I think instead we must find inventive ways of spreading the benefits of tourism to less developed (and prosperous) areas.
I was being somewhat hyperbolic, but only somewhat. I do believe particular tourist hotspots will have to adopt a Bhutan/Cinque Terre policy, of charging simply for access - places like the Riviera, Tuscany, Provence. Maybe the English Lakes.
These destinations simply cannot sustain the tourist numbers that are potentially headed their way, thanks to the Asian economic miracle. A form of rationing will have to be introduced, and it will be done by price, as you would expect.
BTW if other pb-ers are feeling a bit clueless, here's the Speccie piece I wrote last week, on this subject:
For a few iconic world beauty spots, perhaps. In the UK I think we have few places that couldn't do with more tourism. Scotland in particular has Castles, Lochs and distilleries enough to satisfy the masses I think. I found your predictions quite heartening as a consequence.
Wasn't there a campaign (advert at least) in the Irish referendum on gay marriage all about 'take your family with you', with young people asking older people to come with them on this journey? I wonder if this 'write to gran' is supposed to be similar, but it has a lot less emotional resonance.
Indeed. A gay person, or a gay-sympathetic young person, underlining the bonds of family over differences on social issues is entirely different than the young lecturing the old on what is right and, ffs, patriotic.
It’s a photo of the establishment doing what the establishment does best: coalescing around a policy and convincing people that it would be sheer madness to oppose it. Government by social convention.
To some extent it’s a damning indictment of bourgeois democracy, of the way that those with power and privilege get to define what is politically acceptable and assert an unwritten consensus. A consensus that’s inescapable.
There is, however, a surprising consequence to the Remain campaign’s strategy of collecting celebrity endorsements like they were advertising walk-in baths. They’re creating a campaign of personalities rather than ideas. They’re trying to compel Britain to vote in a particular way rather than persuade them. And stubborn voters might not appreciate that.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/15/the-eu-referendum-is-becoming-a-contest-between-the-establishmen/
I'm beginning to think that Leave might win this.
'How on earth did David Cameron allow himself to be photographed with that gruesome twosome?'
Three immensely privileged white men in suits, at least one of whom having failed at politics in this country went on to enjoy a richly rewarded career courtesy of the EU, telling the 'little people' how to vote. What could possibly go wrong?
I cannot see Farage in the picture. Surely that is whom you describe?
Neil Kinnock, for all his faults, brought Labour back from the abyss, and set in place the foundations of the 1997 landslide. His record is not of failure.
Alex Massie has an alternative take:
But if you are the kind of person who sees cross-party campaigning and even a modest amount of single-issue consensus as a kind of betrayal then, well, you may be in tune with the temper of the times but you are also, and I’m sorry to be blunt about this, an idiot.
Let's be honest here, if those two gentlemen where for Leave and had done that photo-op with Boris, the Leavers wouldn't be anywhere near so indignant.
Exactly, If Boris had fallen off the fence in the other direction he would be being pilloried by the Leavers - instead of us being told on this thread that his advice is better than the IMF/ BOE/ NATO combined. Unbelievable and ridiculously tribal but they all seem to believe it. PB has become a little each-chamber of Leavers all backing each other up to convince themselves they are right. Four legs good, two legs bad.
Leave's frothing over the Cameron/Ashowdown/Kinnock photo is in sad contrast to when Blair and Major jointly fronted the Northern Ireland peace process. No one could accuse Major of liking the IRA (who'd tried to murder him) or Blair (who'd politically humiliated him), but he put that aside for what he believed was in the national interest. Not everyone (me included) thought the process would succeed, but no one questioned Major's wisdom or motives. We lived in more nuanced and understanding times back then. Now everything must be absolute.
I visit rarely now and post less. Good on you for bothering but you're wasting your time being sensible on here with this issue.
Comments
http://youtu.be/9dNFDKq6ly4
I suspect that the real agenda of the campaign is more to engage the youngsters than convert the Gran. The more young people registered and campaigning for Remain the better. I suspect not many cards will be sent.
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/721319647761559552
Edit: And from terrible lows.
My response to it is that I love hugs, love Europeans, just don't like the political institution that is the EU.
GGGGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLL22222222222222222!!!!
And failing to understand the basics. There's no hopey change, it's immensely patronising and fails the end user message criteria.
Hi Granny, have some Battenberg whilst I tell you you're wrong on climate change. Just no.
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