@DPJHodges: If you haven't seen Boris Johnson's interview with @bbclaurak you need to have a look. Seriously out there. Starts banging on about the CIA.
@paddyashdown: Brexit: Bnk of England wrong. IMF wrong. NATO wrong. EU wrong. C'wealth wrong Obama wrong. Boris right OK But wld you bet the country on it?
Appeals to authority don't work as well as they used to.
Quite. Personally I would take Boris' advice over the combined advice of the IMF, NATO, the BOE and the EU any day of the week and twice on Sundays. And I'm not even a particular Boris fan.
He was very blinky in the Laura K interview - I don't think he particularly believes what he's saying (but I think that would be the same if he was arguing unequivocally for Remain), but he is warming to his theme, he is getting out of second gear, and good for him.
I think it maybe occurred to him the size and the power of the vested interest that he is taking on.
He can be forgiven for blinking
He is perhaps quite blinky in general.
I thought he could have made the simple point that it's in America's interests for us to be in the EU (who do I dial for Europe etc.), but we're not voting for them, we're voting for us.
@DPJHodges: If you haven't seen Boris Johnson's interview with @bbclaurak you need to have a look. Seriously out there. Starts banging on about the CIA.
@paddyashdown: Brexit: Bnk of England wrong. IMF wrong. NATO wrong. EU wrong. C'wealth wrong Obama wrong. Boris right OK But wld you bet the country on it?
Appeals to authority don't work as well as they used to.
The establishment need to be believed to be both competent and fair for it to work.
Instead they told us:
The banks are well run There will not be a recession in 2008 Politicians expenses are honest Elections in Tower Hamlets and fair Nothing is happening in Rotherham Stafford hospital is safe Kids company is a deserving charity There will be no more than 15,000 immigrants from Eastern Europe Saddam Hussein has WMD
All sadly true. Yet, when I was younger, I used to trust my leaders. Perhaps that helps sum up why young people are more pro-EU than older voters, who've grown cynical.
I suspect that the internet has made it easy to see things in different aspects to what the establishment tells us.
There's also the issue that throughout the 20th century living standards and equality steadily grew.
Its the stagnation of living standards and increase in inequality since the millennium which helps to destroy faith in the establishment.
There's plenty of people saying we should trust what the establishment is saying about the EU simply because it is the establishment.
Inevitable, too many people are either part of the establishment, work for the establishment, or make lots of money from doing the bidding of the establishment.
It’s a photo of the establishment doing what the establishment does best: coalescing around a policy and convincing people that it would be sheer madness to oppose it. Government by social convention.
To some extent it’s a damning indictment of bourgeois democracy, of the way that those with power and privilege get to define what is politically acceptable and assert an unwritten consensus. A consensus that’s inescapable.
There is, however, a surprising consequence to the Remain campaign’s strategy of collecting celebrity endorsements like they were advertising walk-in baths. They’re creating a campaign of personalities rather than ideas. They’re trying to compel Britain to vote in a particular way rather than persuade them. And stubborn voters might not appreciate that.
'If a doctor wishes to locum, unless their usual employer gives them an agreement in writing they cannot locum legally. This is also combined with locum caps (admittedly only for agencies, but most hospitals are putting them out accross the board) means that if you don't want to do your own hospital locum at the pathetic rate they are offering, you are not allowed to work for a different provider offering more.'
Just in case anyone believed 'this is not about money but patient care' spouted by junior doctors.
@DPJHodges: If you haven't seen Boris Johnson's interview with @bbclaurak you need to have a look. Seriously out there. Starts banging on about the CIA.
@paddyashdown: Brexit: Bnk of England wrong. IMF wrong. NATO wrong. EU wrong. C'wealth wrong Obama wrong. Boris right OK But wld you bet the country on it?
Appeals to authority don't work as well as they used to.
The establishment need to be believed to be both competent and fair for it to work.
Instead they told us:
The banks are well run There will not be a recession in 2008 Politicians expenses are honest Elections in Tower Hamlets and fair Nothing is happening in Rotherham Stafford hospital is safe Kids company is a deserving charity There will be no more than 15,000 immigrants from Eastern Europe Saddam Hussein has WMD
You forgot
'I will resign if I don't win Thanet South'
Just to contribute the nutso tinfoil comment of the day, I'm not in the least convinced that the Thanet South election wasn't rigged. We have the police closing the enquiry - we have no timeline of where those ballot boxes were for the missing three hours. Sorry but I'm in no way convinced by the police telling me there's no case (hello Rotherham).
You can only be part of the elite if you're wealthy, how the definition of wealthy is up for discussion.
Disagree. You can be part of the elite if you're not wealthy but you'll find it almost impossible to be an independent actor within the elite. Good advisors, however, can come from any background and easily find their way to positions of great power. Narcissus, for example.
A question about Hilary, bearing in mind I know nothing about her. The probability of a husband and wife both being capable of running the most powerful country in the world is extraordinary.
If she had another name would she be anywhere near the front row of this pantomime?
That has no bearing on the US bean feast , it is all down to how much money and pork barrel friends you can muster.
Yes, British politics is a little better in that respect.
I cannot see a way out of this mess for the Republicans. They have to have a candidate, and if anything other than Trump there will be accusations of a backroom fix, and no point in a fix if it is likely to fall apart or be inadequate. Probably the best option is to accept the inevitable and get on board with Trump and hope to soften his rougher edges.
I am green on this race but best with Cruz or Kasich. I cannot see much value either backing or laying Trump at this point.
Hillary will be an excellent President.
I am not a Hillary fan, would prefer Trump.
Good God; really? Have you got money on him?
No, I just think like the UK that an elite have been milking the country forever and it is time they got a kick in the goolies. Their greed now is out of hand, we need a real shake up here as well.
You can only be part of the elite if you're wealthy, how the definition of wealthy is up for discussion.
Disagree. You can be part of the elite if you're not wealthy but you'll find it almost impossible to be an independent actor within the elite. Good advisors, however, can come from any background and easily find their way to positions of great power. Narcissus, for example.
I've always thought the most remarkable example of social mobility in ancient history is Theodora, going from low-grade prostitute to co-ruler of the Roman Empire, and eventually canonised after her death.
It’s a photo of the establishment doing what the establishment does best: coalescing around a policy and convincing people that it would be sheer madness to oppose it. Government by social convention.
To some extent it’s a damning indictment of bourgeois democracy, of the way that those with power and privilege get to define what is politically acceptable and assert an unwritten consensus. A consensus that’s inescapable.
There is, however, a surprising consequence to the Remain campaign’s strategy of collecting celebrity endorsements like they were advertising walk-in baths. They’re creating a campaign of personalities rather than ideas. They’re trying to compel Britain to vote in a particular way rather than persuade them. And stubborn voters might not appreciate that. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/15/the-eu-referendum-is-becoming-a-contest-between-the-establishmen/
I see Jahadi Jez has got the left wing Jewish vote sown up.....
In his first interview since leaving the BBC, the Labour supporting former television boss attacked the party which has been plagued with claims of antisemitisim since Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader.
Cohen told The Times: 'If you are Jewish how can you vote for them? How could you? For me it would like being a Muslim and voting for Donald Trump, how could you do it? You have to feel absolutely confident that it is totally unacceptable and it won't be tolerated and I personally haven't felt comfortable that it is happening yet in the Labour party.'
You can only be part of the elite if you're wealthy, how the definition of wealthy is up for discussion.
Disagree. You can be part of the elite if you're not wealthy but you'll find it almost impossible to be an independent actor within the elite. Good advisors, however, can come from any background and easily find their way to positions of great power. Narcissus, for example.
Thomas Cromwell, son of Blacksmith Cardinal Wolsey, son of a Butcher.
@DPJHodges: If you haven't seen Boris Johnson's interview with @bbclaurak you need to have a look. Seriously out there. Starts banging on about the CIA.
@paddyashdown: Brexit: Bnk of England wrong. IMF wrong. NATO wrong. EU wrong. C'wealth wrong Obama wrong. Boris right OK But wld you bet the country on it?
Appeals to authority don't work as well as they used to.
The establishment need to be believed to be both competent and fair for it to work.
Instead they told us:
The banks are well run There will not be a recession in 2008 Politicians expenses are honest Elections in Tower Hamlets and fair Nothing is happening in Rotherham Stafford hospital is safe Kids company is a deserving charity There will be no more than 15,000 immigrants from Eastern Europe Saddam Hussein has WMD
All sadly true. Yet, when I was younger, I used to trust my leaders. Perhaps that helps sum up why young people are more pro-EU than older voters, who've grown cynical.
Same here. As you go through life, the times when the establishment proves to be less than honest mount up. Eventually it reaches someone's tipping point.
You can only be part of the elite if you're wealthy, how the definition of wealthy is up for discussion.
Disagree. You can be part of the elite if you're not wealthy but you'll find it almost impossible to be an independent actor within the elite. Good advisors, however, can come from any background and easily find their way to positions of great power. Narcissus, for example.
I was talking about perceptions therein.
I'm really proud of the fact it was our Party that took a working class kid from Brixton, without a university degree, and made him Prime Minister
@DPJHodges: If you haven't seen Boris Johnson's interview with @bbclaurak you need to have a look. Seriously out there. Starts banging on about the CIA.
@paddyashdown: Brexit: Bnk of England wrong. IMF wrong. NATO wrong. EU wrong. C'wealth wrong Obama wrong. Boris right OK But wld you bet the country on it?
Appeals to authority don't work as well as they used to.
The establishment need to be believed to be both competent and fair for it to work.
Instead they told us:
The banks are well run There will not be a recession in 2008 Politicians expenses are honest Elections in Tower Hamlets and fair Nothing is happening in Rotherham Stafford hospital is safe Kids company is a deserving charity There will be no more than 15,000 immigrants from Eastern Europe Saddam Hussein has WMD
And the fact that we escaped the chains of the €URO only adds to their hypocritical wrongness. The whole of whitehall and banks were for it. The only thing we can thank Brown for.
@paddyashdown: Brexit: Bnk of England wrong. IMF wrong. NATO wrong. EU wrong. C'wealth wrong Obama wrong. Boris right OK But wld you bet the country on it?'
The establishment doesn't want the UK to leave the EU that's a staggering development.
The same establishment that forecast economic collapse if the UK didn't join the euro ?
Mr. F, could be wrong, but I think Maximin went from Thracian shepherd to Emperor of Rome (he's the chap who murdered, or capitalised on the murder, of Alexander Severus, the event that instigated the Crisis of the Third Century).
Agree on the co-ruler point. Justinian the Great [undeserved epithet] would've been toppled by the Nika rebellion if his decisive (but also dodgy) wife hadn't had more balls than him.
Mr. Meeks, you're hardly a plebeian yourself. On the geographical front, you seem more pro-migrant than the average for the populations of both countries in which you own homes.
Mr. F, Cameron's entirely responsible for his loss of standing. He's acted with a mixture of arrogance, complacency and incompetence in recent months.
Edited extra bit: the reply to Mr. Meeks was perhaps ill-tempered. But sneering is not an endearing approach.
Mr. Meeks (2), the EU and US situations are radically different. The comparison is ridiculous.
I don't take kindly to my personal circumstances being used as debating points to attempt to disqualify me from having a view. A sneer in return is the least that is merited.
Is amusing, if you're wealthy and elite, we're not allowed to discuss matters of immigration because we don't live in the real world.
But the plebs of PB are allowed to talk about how international trade agreements will happen, despite them have no qualifications to talk about such things.
I love it.
''PB Plebs''
Nice.
Elsewhere the tumbrel wheels are being greased.......
@DPJHodges: If you haven't seen Boris Johnson's interview with @bbclaurak you need to have a look. Seriously out there. Starts banging on about the CIA.
@paddyashdown: Brexit: Bnk of England wrong. IMF wrong. NATO wrong. EU wrong. C'wealth wrong Obama wrong. Boris right OK But wld you bet the country on it?
Appeals to authority don't work as well as they used to.
The establishment need to be believed to be both competent and fair for it to work.
Instead they told us:
The banks are well run There will not be a recession in 2008 Politicians expenses are honest Elections in Tower Hamlets and fair Nothing is happening in Rotherham Stafford hospital is safe Kids company is a deserving charity There will be no more than 15,000 immigrants from Eastern Europe Saddam Hussein has WMD
All sadly true. Yet, when I was younger, I used to trust my leaders. Perhaps that helps sum up why young people are more pro-EU than older voters, who've grown cynical.
Same here. As you go through life, the times when the establishment proves to be less than honest mount up. Eventually it reaches someone's tipping point.
Leave are overwhelmingly of the more experienced generation(s). Remain, less so.
It really is spooky how so many memes of the Indy referendum are being re-run.
Far too complicated. Any government is not bound by the result, including the present government, because the result is advisory. Referenda in this country are not legally enforceable unless the legislation to make them so has already been passed (only AV did that out of all national referenda in our history that I know of).
The referendum is like all referenda are here simply advisory. The government has to make the final decision but woe betide a government that went against the advice we gave.
Mr. Meeks, is the US proposing to join the EU? Or is that a fatuous comparison?
No, the point is that the US (or more accurately, the states) had this debate in the 1780s and we know the outcome. They don't need to have it now.
And the point is utter rubbish. We are discussing the US as an entity.
Well then that's rigging the terms of debate. On US is already a federation.
Well then we just just as easily say that the 'United' Kingdom incorporating England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland into one entity has united quite enough and doesn't need to any more. It's a ridiculous red herring that does nothing except indeed reveal the extent to which one poster fondly cherishes the hope that the EU can and should become a single federal state. To which I say by all means bash on but leave the UK out of it.
You can only be part of the elite if you're wealthy, how the definition of wealthy is up for discussion.
Disagree. You can be part of the elite if you're not wealthy but you'll find it almost impossible to be an independent actor within the elite. Good advisors, however, can come from any background and easily find their way to positions of great power. Narcissus, for example.
I was talking about perceptions therein.
I'm really proud of the fact it was our Party that took a working class kid from Brixton, without a university degree, and made him Prime Minister
That's not quite the whole story, his family was comfortably off and lived in a middle class Merton while he attended Rutlish Grammar School until his father's business got into trouble when he was 11 and they had to move to Brixton, he might not have had a degree but he was an executive and assistant to the chairman of Standard Chartered Bank at the time he became a candidate.
Mr. F, could be wrong, but I think Maximin went from Thracian shepherd to Emperor of Rome (he's the chap who murdered, or capitalised on the murder, of Alexander Severus, the event that instigated the Crisis of the Third Century).
Agree on the co-ruler point. Justinian the Great [undeserved epithet] would've been toppled by the Nika rebellion if his decisive (but also dodgy) wife hadn't had more balls than him.
Several emperors came from nowhere, by virtue of working their way up through the ranks of the army, such as Maximin, as you say, but also Justin I, Basil I, Leo the Iconoclast. Theodora's achievement was even more impressive, as that kind of career wasn't available to her.
Mr. Meeks, you're hardly a plebeian yourself. On the geographical front, you seem more pro-migrant than the average for the populations of both countries in which you own homes.
Mr. F, Cameron's entirely responsible for his loss of standing. He's acted with a mixture of arrogance, complacency and incompetence in recent months.
Edited extra bit: the reply to Mr. Meeks was perhaps ill-tempered. But sneering is not an endearing approach.
Mr. Meeks (2), the EU and US situations are radically different. The comparison is ridiculous.
I don't take kindly to my personal circumstances being used as debating points to attempt to disqualify me from having a view. A sneer in return is the least that is merited.
Is amusing, if you're wealthy and elite, we're not allowed to discuss matters of immigration because we don't live in the real world.
But the plebs of PB are allowed to talk about how international trade agreements will happen, despite them have no qualifications to talk about such things.
I love it.
''PB Plebs''
Nice.
Elsewhere the tumbrel wheels are being greased.......
Oh! "Tumbrel" that's my new word for the day, it's always an education here !
It’s a photo of the establishment doing what the establishment does best: coalescing around a policy and convincing people that it would be sheer madness to oppose it. Government by social convention.
To some extent it’s a damning indictment of bourgeois democracy, of the way that those with power and privilege get to define what is politically acceptable and assert an unwritten consensus. A consensus that’s inescapable.
There is, however, a surprising consequence to the Remain campaign’s strategy of collecting celebrity endorsements like they were advertising walk-in baths. They’re creating a campaign of personalities rather than ideas. They’re trying to compel Britain to vote in a particular way rather than persuade them. And stubborn voters might not appreciate that. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/15/the-eu-referendum-is-becoming-a-contest-between-the-establishmen/
I'm actually looking at that scenario in tomorrow's thread.
Which is headlined 'Why it is in the Tory Party's best interests that Remain wins'
So we are to be treated to a pro-Cameron Conservative arguing it's more important to save Cameron than the Conservatives and more argument to save the Conservatives than the country.
Predictable desperate spinning.
By the way, as everyone knows, "Bexit" is the campaign for Bexley to secede from London and join Kent.
It’s a photo of the establishment doing what the establishment does best: coalescing around a policy and convincing people that it would be sheer madness to oppose it. Government by social convention.
To some extent it’s a damning indictment of bourgeois democracy, of the way that those with power and privilege get to define what is politically acceptable and assert an unwritten consensus. A consensus that’s inescapable.
There is, however, a surprising consequence to the Remain campaign’s strategy of collecting celebrity endorsements like they were advertising walk-in baths. They’re creating a campaign of personalities rather than ideas. They’re trying to compel Britain to vote in a particular way rather than persuade them. And stubborn voters might not appreciate that. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/15/the-eu-referendum-is-becoming-a-contest-between-the-establishmen/
I'm actually looking at that scenario in tomorrow's thread.
Which is headlined 'Why it is in the Tory Party's best interests that Remain wins'
So we are to be treated to a pro-Cameron Conservative arguing it's more important to save Cameron than the Conservatives and more argument to save the Conservatives than the country.
Predictable desperate spinning.
By the way, as everyone knows, "Bexit" is the campaign for Bexley to secede from London and join Kent.
Actually it is a history lesson.
The inspiration for the thread came in an offsite conversation with a non Tory PBer
I'm actually looking at that scenario in tomorrow's thread.
Which is headlined 'Why it is in the Tory Party's best interests that Remain wins'
So we are to be treated to a pro-Cameron Conservative arguing it's more important to save Cameron than the Conservatives and more argument to save the Conservatives than the country.
Predictable desperate spinning.
By the way, as everyone knows, "Bexit" is the campaign for Bexley to secede from London and join Kent.
Unless Cameron unannounces his retirement he can't be saved, he's going either way. We need to look to the future and get a good new leader who can win next time, not cling to the past.
It’s a photo of the establishment doing what the establishment does best: coalescing around a policy and convincing people that it would be sheer madness to oppose it. Government by social convention.
To some extent it’s a damning indictment of bourgeois democracy, of the way that those with power and privilege get to define what is politically acceptable and assert an unwritten consensus. A consensus that’s inescapable.
There is, however, a surprising consequence to the Remain campaign’s strategy of collecting celebrity endorsements like they were advertising walk-in baths. They’re creating a campaign of personalities rather than ideas. They’re trying to compel Britain to vote in a particular way rather than persuade them. And stubborn voters might not appreciate that. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/15/the-eu-referendum-is-becoming-a-contest-between-the-establishmen/
That photo is actually quite sickening.
Vote Leave (or probably leaving it to Grassroots out) can have a field day with that photo. Captions, Speech bubbles, salaries... I'd be disappointed if it didn't result in a Private Eye cover too.
I'm actually looking at that scenario in tomorrow's thread.
Which is headlined 'Why it is in the Tory Party's best interests that Remain wins'
So we are to be treated to a pro-Cameron Conservative arguing it's more important to save Cameron than the Conservatives and more argument to save the Conservatives than the country.
Predictable desperate spinning.
By the way, as everyone knows, "Bexit" is the campaign for Bexley to secede from London and join Kent.
Actually it is a history lesson.
The inspiration for the thread came in an offsite conversation with a non Tory PBer
A bit late - I don't think you need to go to Eastern Europe to save money on medical treatment. My brother in France found an eye operation there was half the price of the same treatment here.
It’s a photo of the establishment doing what the establishment does best: coalescing around a policy and convincing people that it would be sheer madness to oppose it. Government by social convention.
To some extent it’s a damning indictment of bourgeois democracy, of the way that those with power and privilege get to define what is politically acceptable and assert an unwritten consensus. A consensus that’s inescapable.
There is, however, a surprising consequence to the Remain campaign’s strategy of collecting celebrity endorsements like they were advertising walk-in baths. They’re creating a campaign of personalities rather than ideas. They’re trying to compel Britain to vote in a particular way rather than persuade them. And stubborn voters might not appreciate that. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/15/the-eu-referendum-is-becoming-a-contest-between-the-establishmen/
Mr. F, could be wrong, but I think Maximin went from Thracian shepherd to Emperor of Rome (he's the chap who murdered, or capitalised on the murder, of Alexander Severus, the event that instigated the Crisis of the Third Century).
Agree on the co-ruler point. Justinian the Great [undeserved epithet] would've been toppled by the Nika rebellion if his decisive (but also dodgy) wife hadn't had more balls than him.
Several emperors came from nowhere, by virtue of working their way up through the ranks of the army, such as Maximin, as you say, but also Justin I, Basil I, Leo the Iconoclast. Theodora's achievement was even more impressive, as that kind of career wasn't available to her.
Be fair, Mr. F, strong minded women shagging their way to positions of great influence, if not actual power, has not actually been a rarity throughout history.
I still can't quite get over Remain's patronising campaign here - copied from Obama, but without any Hope & Change
The campaign Talk to Gran was launched this week, urging the young to persuade the old via a series of rather patronising postcards. One reads: “Nan, let’s sit down for a cuppa, a slice of Battenberg . . . and a chat about why my future’s in the EU.”
Mr. Meeks, you're hardly a plebeian yourself. On the geographical front, you seem more pro-migrant than the average for the populations of both countries in which you own homes.
Mr. F, Cameron's entirely responsible for his loss of standing. He's acted with a mixture of arrogance, complacency and incompetence in recent months.
Edited extra bit: the reply to Mr. Meeks was perhaps ill-tempered. But sneering is not an endearing approach.
Mr. Meeks (2), the EU and US situations are radically different. The comparison is ridiculous.
I don't take kindly to my personal circumstances being used as debating points to attempt to disqualify me from having a view. A sneer in return is the least that is merited.
Is amusing, if you're wealthy and elite, we're not allowed to discuss matters of immigration because we don't live in the real world.
But the plebs of PB are allowed to talk about how international trade agreements will happen, despite them have no qualifications to talk about such things.
I love it.
''PB Plebs''
Nice.
Elsewhere the tumbrel wheels are being greased.......
Oh! "Tumbrel" that's my new word for the day, it's always an education here !
Mr. Meeks, you're hardly a plebeian yourself. On the geographical front, you seem more pro-migrant than the average for the populations of both countries in which you own homes.
Mr. F, Cameron's entirely responsible for his loss of standing. He's acted with a mixture of arrogance, complacency and incompetence in recent months.
Edited extra bit: the reply to Mr. Meeks was perhaps ill-tempered. But sneering is not an endearing approach.
Mr. Meeks (2), the EU and US situations are radically different. The comparison is ridiculous.
I don't take kindly to my personal circumstances being used as debating points to attempt to disqualify me from having a view. A sneer in return is the least that is merited.
Is amusing, if you're wealthy and elite, we're not allowed to discuss matters of immigration because we don't live in the real world.
But the plebs of PB are allowed to talk about how international trade agreements will happen, despite them have no qualifications to talk about such things.
I love it.
''PB Plebs''
Nice.
Elsewhere the tumbrel wheels are being greased.......
I'm just hugely amused at TSE referring to himself as an elite. Bless.
The inspiration for the thread came in an offsite conversation with a non Tory PBer
My point (and I'm not a Conservative) is I'm not interested in the petty machinations of the Conservative Party and the EU Referendum is not just about the Conservative Party and its own internal battle for its soul.
The EU Referendum is much more important than to be trivialised down to what's good for your party (or for your chosen faction of your party).
There are plenty of Conservatives on here and elsewhere who seem to see no contradiction in voting LEAVE and being a Conservative and will still be Conservative Party members and supporters whichever side wins and that's fine.
I'm actually looking at that scenario in tomorrow's thread.
Which is headlined 'Why it is in the Tory Party's best interests that Remain wins'
So we are to be treated to a pro-Cameron Conservative arguing it's more important to save Cameron than the Conservatives and more argument to save the Conservatives than the country.
Predictable desperate spinning.
By the way, as everyone knows, "Bexit" is the campaign for Bexley to secede from London and join Kent.
Unless Cameron unannounces his retirement he can't be saved, he's going either way. We need to look to the future and get a good new leader who can win next time, not cling to the past.
Farage looked a fool un-resigning and rightly got a load of stick from the Tories for it, but inadvertently made it very unlikely that DC will be able to unretire without looking even more of a hypocrite.
Mr. Meeks, you're hardly a plebeian yourself. On the geographical front, you seem more pro-migrant than the average for the populations of both countries in which you own homes.
Mr. F, Cameron's entirely responsible for his loss of standing. He's acted with a mixture of arrogance, complacency and incompetence in recent months.
Edited extra bit: the reply to Mr. Meeks was perhaps ill-tempered. But sneering is not an endearing approach.
Mr. Meeks (2), the EU and US situations are radically different. The comparison is ridiculous.
I don't take kindly to my personal circumstances being used as debating points to attempt to disqualify me from having a view. A sneer in return is the least that is merited.
Is amusing, if you're wealthy and elite, we're not allowed to discuss matters of immigration because we don't live in the real world.
But the plebs of PB are allowed to talk about how international trade agreements will happen, despite them have no qualifications to talk about such things.
I love it.
''PB Plebs''
Nice.
Elsewhere the tumbrel wheels are being greased.......
I'm just hugely amused at TSE referring to himself as an elite. Bless.
Hey, I've been accused of being a member of the metropolitan elite several times by PBers.
I mean I know I'm from Sheffield, and that's an awesome, exclusive, and elite club.
The inspiration for the thread came in an offsite conversation with a non Tory PBer
My point (and I'm not a Conservative) is I'm not interested in the petty machinations of the Conservative Party and the EU Referendum is not just about the Conservative Party and its own internal battle for its soul.
The EU Referendum is much more important than to be trivialised down to what's good for your party (or for your chosen faction of your party).
There are plenty of Conservatives on here and elsewhere who seem to see no contradiction in voting LEAVE and being a Conservative and will still be Conservative Party members and supporters whichever side wins and that's fine.
I suggest you read the thread when it is published, then discuss it, as it does have some betting implications/tips
Mr. Meeks, you're hardly a plebeian yourself. On the geographical front, you seem more pro-migrant than the average for the populations of both countries in which you own homes.
Mr. F, Cameron's entirely responsible for his loss of standing. He's acted with a mixture of arrogance, complacency and incompetence in recent months.
Edited extra bit: the reply to Mr. Meeks was perhaps ill-tempered. But sneering is not an endearing approach.
Mr. Meeks (2), the EU and US situations are radically different. The comparison is ridiculous.
I don't take kindly to my personal circumstances being used as debating points to attempt to disqualify me from having a view. A sneer in return is the least that is merited.
Is amusing, if you're wealthy and elite, we're not allowed to discuss matters of immigration because we don't live in the real world.
But the plebs of PB are allowed to talk about how international trade agreements will happen, despite them have no qualifications to talk about such things.
I love it.
''PB Plebs''
Nice.
Elsewhere the tumbrel wheels are being greased.......
I'm just hugely amused at TSE referring to himself as an elite. Bless.
Hey, I've been accused of being a member of the metropolitan elite several times by PBers.
I mean I know I'm from Sheffield, and that's an awesome, exclusive, and elite club.
I don't want to get too philosophical on a Saturday morning, but I always think it's sad when anyone gets their self worth from membership of a club, whether that be a Debretts listing, a golf club, the Masons, or the national union of dustbin men. I think the effect on society and politics is pernicious.
Furthermore, to misquote Thatcher (and whomever she stole it from), if you have to tell people you're in the elite, you're not.
I still can't quite get over Remain's patronising campaign here - copied from Obama, but without any Hope & Change
The campaign Talk to Gran was launched this week, urging the young to persuade the old via a series of rather patronising postcards. One reads: “Nan, let’s sit down for a cuppa, a slice of Battenberg . . . and a chat about why my future’s in the EU.”
Mr. Meeks, you're hardly a plebeian yourself. On the geographical front, you seem more pro-migrant than the average for the populations of both countries in which you own homes.
Mr. F, Cameron's entirely responsible for his loss of standing. He's acted with a mixture of arrogance, complacency and incompetence in recent months.
Edited extra bit: the reply to Mr. Meeks was perhaps ill-tempered. But sneering is not an endearing approach.
Mr. Meeks (2), the EU and US situations are radically different. The comparison is ridiculous.
I don't take kindly to my personal circumstances being used as debating points to attempt to disqualify me from having a view. A sneer in return is the least that is merited.
Is amusing, if you're wealthy and elite, we're not allowed to discuss matters of immigration because we don't live in the real world.
But the plebs of PB are allowed to talk about how international trade agreements will happen, despite them have no qualifications to talk about such things.
I love it.
''PB Plebs''
Nice.
Elsewhere the tumbrel wheels are being greased.......
Oh! "Tumbrel" that's my new word for the day, it's always an education here !
After your comment yesterday about dominatrix I don't see you as the type to be knitting in the crowd. Up there on the scaffold in thigh length leather boots and ....
Sorry, I am going to go and bathe my wrists in cold water then lie down in a darkened room.
It’s a photo of the establishment doing what the establishment does best: coalescing around a policy and convincing people that it would be sheer madness to oppose it. Government by social convention.
To some extent it’s a damning indictment of bourgeois democracy, of the way that those with power and privilege get to define what is politically acceptable and assert an unwritten consensus. A consensus that’s inescapable.
There is, however, a surprising consequence to the Remain campaign’s strategy of collecting celebrity endorsements like they were advertising walk-in baths. They’re creating a campaign of personalities rather than ideas. They’re trying to compel Britain to vote in a particular way rather than persuade them. And stubborn voters might not appreciate that.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/15/the-eu-referendum-is-becoming-a-contest-between-the-establishmen/
I'm beginning to think that Leave might win this.
'How on earth did David Cameron allow himself to be photographed with that gruesome twosome?'
Three immensely privileged white men in suits, at least one of whom having failed at politics in this country went on to enjoy a richly rewarded career courtesy of the EU, telling the 'little people' how to vote. What could possibly go wrong?
I cannot see Farage in the picture. Surely that is whom you describe?
Neil Kinnock, for all his faults, brought Labour back from the abyss, and set in place the foundations of the 1997 landslide. His record is not of failure.
Alex Massie has an alternative take:
But if you are the kind of person who sees cross-party campaigning and even a modest amount of single-issue consensus as a kind of betrayal then, well, you may be in tune with the temper of the times but you are also, and I’m sorry to be blunt about this, an idiot.
Let's be honest here, if those two gentlemen where for Leave and had done that photo-op with Boris, the Leavers wouldn't be anywhere near so indignant.
Mr. Meeks, you're hardly a plebeian yourself. On the geographical front, you seem more pro-migrant than the average for the populations of both countries in which you own homes.
Mr. F, Cameron's entirely responsible for his loss of standing. He's acted with a mixture of arrogance, complacency and incompetence in recent months.
Edited extra bit: the reply to Mr. Meeks was perhaps ill-tempered. But sneering is not an endearing approach.
Mr. Meeks (2), the EU and US situations are radically different. The comparison is ridiculous.
I don't take kindly to my personal circumstances being used as debating points to attempt to disqualify me from having a view. A sneer in return is the least that is merited.
Is amusing, if you're wealthy and elite, we're not allowed to discuss matters of immigration because we don't live in the real world.
But the plebs of PB are allowed to talk about how international trade agreements will happen, despite them have no qualifications to talk about such things.
I love it.
''PB Plebs''
Nice.
Elsewhere the tumbrel wheels are being greased.......
I'm just hugely amused at TSE referring to himself as an elite. Bless.
Hey, I've been accused of being a member of the metropolitan elite several times by PBers.
I mean I know I'm from Sheffield, and that's an awesome, exclusive, and elite club.
I don't want to get too philosophical on a Saturday morning, but I always think it's sad when anyone gets their self worth from membership of a club, whether that be a Debretts listing, a golf club, the Masons, or the national union of dustbin men. I think the effect on society and politics is pernicious.
I agree, I know I'm fortunate that you and I part of an elite group of people, we are citizens of the UK, and I wouldn't trade that for anything.
It’s a photo of the establishment doing what the establishment does best: coalescing around a policy and convincing people that it would be sheer madness to oppose it. Government by social convention.
To some extent it’s a damning indictment of bourgeois democracy, of the way that those with power and privilege get to define what is politically acceptable and assert an unwritten consensus. A consensus that’s inescapable.
There is, however, a surprising consequence to the Remain campaign’s strategy of collecting celebrity endorsements like they were advertising walk-in baths. They’re creating a campaign of personalities rather than ideas. They’re trying to compel Britain to vote in a particular way rather than persuade them. And stubborn voters might not appreciate that.
Mr. Meeks, you're hardly a plebeian yourself. On the geographical front, you seem more pro-migrant than the average for the populations of both countries in which you own homes.
Mr. F, Cameron's entirely responsible for his loss of standing. He's acted with a mixture of arrogance, complacency and incompetence in recent months.
Edited extra bit: the reply to Mr. Meeks was perhaps ill-tempered. But sneering is not an endearing approach.
Mr. Meeks (2), the EU and US situations are radically different. The comparison is ridiculous.
I don't take kindly to my personal circumstances being used as debating points to attempt to disqualify me from having a view. A sneer in return is the least that is merited.
Is amusing, if you're wealthy and elite, we're not allowed to discuss matters of immigration because we don't live in the real world.
But the plebs of PB are allowed to talk about how international trade agreements will happen, despite them have no qualifications to talk about such things.
I love it.
''PB Plebs''
Nice.
Elsewhere the tumbrel wheels are being greased.......
I'm just hugely amused at TSE referring to himself as an elite. Bless.
Hey, I've been accused of being a member of the metropolitan elite several times by PBers.
I mean I know I'm from Sheffield, and that's an awesome, exclusive, and elite club.
I don't want to get too philosophical on a Saturday morning, but I always think it's sad when anyone gets their self worth from membership of a club, whether that be a Debretts listing, a golf club, the Masons, or the national union of dustbin men. I think the effect on society and politics is pernicious.
I agree, I know I'm fortunate that you and I part of an elite group of people, we are citizens of the UK, and I wouldn't trade that for anything.
Mr. F, could be wrong, but I think Maximin went from Thracian shepherd to Emperor of Rome (he's the chap who murdered, or capitalised on the murder, of Alexander Severus, the event that instigated the Crisis of the Third Century).
Agree on the co-ruler point. Justinian the Great [undeserved epithet] would've been toppled by the Nika rebellion if his decisive (but also dodgy) wife hadn't had more balls than him.
Several emperors came from nowhere, by virtue of working their way up through the ranks of the army, such as Maximin, as you say, but also Justin I, Basil I, Leo the Iconoclast. Theodora's achievement was even more impressive, as that kind of career wasn't available to her.
Be fair, Mr. F, strong minded women shagging their way to positions of great influence, if not actual power, has not actually been a rarity throughout history.
Just got back from 3 hours standing outside a community centre (largely in the rain) in Hart (north-east Hampshire) handing out Vote Leave leaflets. Probably about 200.
Bit mixed.
Most going in/out were in their 30s/40s with young kids.
Three handed the leaflet directly back, all looked very "AB". One old lady harrumphed me about it as she was a firm Remainer, and then tried to sabotage me handing out leaflets by interrupting me for a further minute. Then she left. I had another ask me if I had "permission" to be there, who then disappeared when I pointed out to her it was a public place.
On the plus side, about 80% of people accepted a leaflet, and I saw at least 40% immediately flick through and read it. Some more carried it with them back out again, so hadn't thrown it away. Most people were polite, but a good number weren't not particularly interested and clearly just wanted to get on with their Saturday. A few were very friendly and smilely.
Had conversations with two very firm Leavers, who offered encouragement. Both over 55 I'd say.
Quite a few women saying "I just don't know", "I'm not sure".
It seems to broadly reflect the polls to me. But I'd say 30s/40s more apathetic/unsure.
Mr. Meeks, you're hardly a plebeian yourself. On the geographical front, you seem more pro-migrant than the average for the populations of both countries in which you own homes.
Mr. F, Cameron's entirely responsible for his loss of standing. He's acted with a mixture of arrogance, complacency and incompetence in recent months.
Edited extra bit: the reply to Mr. Meeks was perhaps ill-tempered. But sneering is not an endearing approach.
Mr. Meeks (2), the EU and US situations are radically different. The comparison is ridiculous.
I don't take kindly to my personal circumstances being used as debating points to attempt to disqualify me from having a view. A sneer in return is the least that is merited.
Is amusing, if you're wealthy and elite, we're not allowed to discuss matters of immigration because we don't live in the real world.
But the plebs of PB are allowed to talk about how international trade agreements will happen, despite them have no qualifications to talk about such things.
I love it.
''PB Plebs''
Nice.
Elsewhere the tumbrel wheels are being greased.......
I'm just hugely amused at TSE referring to himself as an elite. Bless.
Hey, I've been accused of being a member of the metropolitan elite several times by PBers.
I mean I know I'm from Sheffield, and that's an awesome, exclusive, and elite club.
I don't want to get too philosophical on a Saturday morning, but I always think it's sad when anyone gets their self worth from membership of a club, whether that be a Debretts listing, a golf club, the Masons, or the national union of dustbin men. I think the effect on society and politics is pernicious.
I agree, I know I'm fortunate that you and I part of an elite group of people, we are citizens of the UK, and I wouldn't trade that for anything.
You appear to be channel Cecil Rhodes, be careful or the students will be after you! "you are an Englishman, and have subsequently drawn the greatest prize in the lottery of life"
Just read the Parris article, about the EU vote being a struggle for the soul of the Conservative Party and I thought so what? 63% of us didn't vote Conservative in 2015, and 63 million of us aren't Party members. Why should all but a few thousand insiders care about the soul of the Conservative Party?
Mr. Meeks, you're hardly a plebeian yourself. On the geographical front, you seem more pro-migrant than the average for the populations of both countries in which you own homes.
Mr. F, Cameron's entirely responsible for his loss of standing. He's acted with a mixture of arrogance, complacency and incompetence in recent months.
Edited extra bit: the reply to Mr. Meeks was perhaps ill-tempered. But sneering is not an endearing approach.
Mr. Meeks (2), the EU and US situations are radically different. The comparison is ridiculous.
I don't take kindly to my personal circumstances being used as debating points to attempt to disqualify me from having a view. A sneer in return is the least that is merited.
Is amusing, if you're wealthy and elite, we're not allowed to discuss matters of immigration because we don't live in the real world.
But the plebs of PB are allowed to talk about how international trade agreements will happen, despite them have no qualifications to talk about such things.
I love it.
''PB Plebs''
Nice.
Elsewhere the tumbrel wheels are being greased.......
I'm just hugely amused at TSE referring to himself as an elite. Bless.
It’s a photo of the establishment doing what the establishment does best: coalescing around a policy and convincing people that it would be sheer madness to oppose it. Government by social convention.
To some extent it’s a damning indictment of bourgeois democracy, of the way that those with power and privilege get to define what is politically acceptable and assert an unwritten consensus. A consensus that’s inescapable.
There is, however, a surprising consequence to the Remain campaign’s strategy of collecting celebrity endorsements like they were advertising walk-in baths. They’re creating a campaign of personalities rather than ideas. They’re trying to compel Britain to vote in a particular way rather than persuade them. And stubborn voters might not appreciate that.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/15/the-eu-referendum-is-becoming-a-contest-between-the-establishmen/
I'm beginning to think that Leave might win this.
That one picture has done more than anything to turn me against Cameron.
I think it's a terrible mistake.
You make it sounds as if Cameron was pictured alongside fringe Nazis. I never liked either Kinnock or Ashdown, but they were long-term leaders of major British political parties, and remain highly respected by those parties' supporters. Sadly, Leave really are starting to conform to their opponents' stereotype of them: that anyone who doubts Leave's cause must be a buffoon or a traitor. It's an unappealing look.
It’s a photo of the establishment doing what the establishment does best: coalescing around a policy and convincing people that it would be sheer madness to oppose it. Government by social convention.
To some extent it’s a damning indictment of bourgeois democracy, of the way that those with power and privilege get to define what is politically acceptable and assert an unwritten consensus. A consensus that’s inescapable.
There is, however, a surprising consequence to the Remain campaign’s strategy of collecting celebrity endorsements like they were advertising walk-in baths. They’re creating a campaign of personalities rather than ideas. They’re trying to compel Britain to vote in a particular way rather than persuade them. And stubborn voters might not appreciate that.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/15/the-eu-referendum-is-becoming-a-contest-between-the-establishmen/
I'm beginning to think that Leave might win this.
That one picture has done more than anything to turn me against Cameron.
I think it's a terrible mistake.
You make it sounds as if Cameron was pictured alongside fringe Nazis. I never liked either Kinnock or Ashdown, but they were long-term leaders of major British political parties, and remain highly respected by those parties' supporters. Sadly, Leave really are starting to conform to their opponents' stereotype of them: that anyone who doubts Leave's cause must be a buffoon or a traitor. It's an unappealing look.
That must be why Remain are 20% ahead in the polls.. oh wait!
It’s a photo of the establishment doing what the establishment does best: coalescing around a policy and convincing people that it would be sheer madness to oppose it. Government by social convention.
To some extent it’s a damning indictment of bourgeois democracy, of the way that those with power and privilege get to define what is politically acceptable and assert an unwritten consensus. A consensus that’s inescapable.
There is, however, a surprising consequence to the Remain campaign’s strategy of collecting celebrity endorsements like they were advertising walk-in baths. They’re creating a campaign of personalities rather than ideas. They’re trying to compel Britain to vote in a particular way rather than persuade them. And stubborn voters might not appreciate that.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/15/the-eu-referendum-is-becoming-a-contest-between-the-establishmen/
I'm beginning to think that Leave might win this.
That one picture has done more than anything to turn me against Cameron.
I think it's a terrible mistake.
You make it sounds as if Cameron was pictured alongside fringe Nazis. I never liked either Kinnock or Ashdown, but they were long-term leaders of major British political parties, and remain highly respected by those parties' supporters. Sadly, Leave really are starting to conform to their opponents' stereotype of them: that anyone who doubts Leave's cause must be a buffoon or a traitor. It's an unappealing look.
Much worse than Nazis, quisling money grabbing rear end licking establishment pocket filling careerists. You at least knew where you were with the Nazis and they tended to shoot you from the front.
Just got back from 3 hours standing outside a community centre (largely in the rain) in Hart (north-east Hampshire) handing out Vote Leave leaflets. Probably about 200.
Bit mixed.
Most going in/out were in their 30s/40s with young kids.
Three handed the leaflet directly back, all looked very "AB". One old lady harrumphed me about it as she was a firm Remainer, and then tried to sabotage me handing out leaflets by interrupting me for a further minute. Then she left. I had another ask me if I had "permission" to be there, who then disappeared when I pointed out to her it was a public place.
On the plus side, about 80% of people accepted a leaflet, and I saw at least 40% immediately flick through and read it. Some more carried it with them back out again, so hadn't thrown it away. Most people were polite, but a good number weren't not particularly interested and clearly just wanted to get on with their Saturday. A few were very friendly and smilely.
Had conversations with two very firm Leavers, who offered encouragement. Both over 55 I'd say.
Quite a few women saying "I just don't know", "I'm not sure".
It seems to broadly reflect the polls to me. But I'd say 30s/40s more apathetic/unsure.
What a useless report? Have you never read a Nick P post?
You're supposed to write about the unexpectedly strong reception you received!
Mr. F, could be wrong, but I think Maximin went from Thracian shepherd to Emperor of Rome (he's the chap who murdered, or capitalised on the murder, of Alexander Severus, the event that instigated the Crisis of the Third Century).
Agree on the co-ruler point. Justinian the Great [undeserved epithet] would've been toppled by the Nika rebellion if his decisive (but also dodgy) wife hadn't had more balls than him.
Several emperors came from nowhere, by virtue of working their way up through the ranks of the army, such as Maximin, as you say, but also Justin I, Basil I, Leo the Iconoclast. Theodora's achievement was even more impressive, as that kind of career wasn't available to her.
Be fair, Mr. F, strong minded women shagging their way to positions of great influence, if not actual power, has not actually been a rarity throughout history.
The inspiration for the thread came in an offsite conversation with a non Tory PBer
My point (and I'm not a Conservative) is I'm not interested in the petty machinations of the Conservative Party and the EU Referendum is not just about the Conservative Party and its own internal battle for its soul.
The EU Referendum is much more important than to be trivialised down to what's good for your party (or for your chosen faction of your party).
There are plenty of Conservatives on here and elsewhere who seem to see no contradiction in voting LEAVE and being a Conservative and will still be Conservative Party members and supporters whichever side wins and that's fine.
I'm looking forward to the pb thread:
"Why it is in Leave's best interests that Cameron is destroyed"
It’s a photo of the establishment doing what the establishment does best: coalescing around a policy and convincing people that it would be sheer madness to oppose it. Government by social convention.
To some extent it’s a damning indictment of bourgeois democracy, of the way that those with power and privilege get to define what is politically acceptable and assert an unwritten consensus. A consensus that’s inescapable.
There is, however, a surprising consequence to the Remain campaign’s strategy of collecting celebrity endorsements like they were advertising walk-in baths. They’re creating a campaign of personalities rather than ideas. They’re trying to compel Britain to vote in a particular way rather than persuade them. And stubborn voters might not appreciate that.
That one picture has done more than anything to turn me against Cameron.
I think it's a terrible mistake. What really concerns me is how comfortable Cameron and Osborne are with the socialist part of the EU that the unions and Corbyn hold up as a benefit.
Just got back from 3 hours standing outside a community centre (largely in the rain) in Hart (north-east Hampshire) handing out Vote Leave leaflets. Probably about 200.
Bit mixed.
Most going in/out were in their 30s/40s with young kids.
Three handed the leaflet directly back, all looked very "AB". One old lady harrumphed me about it as she was a firm Remainer, and then tried to sabotage me handing out leaflets by interrupting me for a further minute. Then she left. I had another ask me if I had "permission" to be there, who then disappeared when I pointed out to her it was a public place.
On the plus side, about 80% of people accepted a leaflet, and I saw at least 40% immediately flick through and read it. Some more carried it with them back out again, so hadn't thrown it away. Most people were polite, but a good number weren't not particularly interested and clearly just wanted to get on with their Saturday. A few were very friendly and smilely.
Had conversations with two very firm Leavers, who offered encouragement. Both over 55 I'd say.
Quite a few women saying "I just don't know", "I'm not sure".
It seems to broadly reflect the polls to me. But I'd say 30s/40s more apathetic/unsure.
Well done you, especially for standing in the rain. Were you on your own or in a group?
I must say I'm much more comfortable knocking on doors or delivering than standing in a public place. Kudos!
The inspiration for the thread came in an offsite conversation with a non Tory PBer
My point (and I'm not a Conservative) is I'm not interested in the petty machinations of the Conservative Party and the EU Referendum is not just about the Conservative Party and its own internal battle for its soul.
The EU Referendum is much more important than to be trivialised down to what's good for your party (or for your chosen faction of your party).
There are plenty of Conservatives on here and elsewhere who seem to see no contradiction in voting LEAVE and being a Conservative and will still be Conservative Party members and supporters whichever side wins and that's fine.
I'm looking forward to the pb thread:
"Why it is in Leave's best interests that Cameron is destroyed"
It’s a photo of the establishment doing what the establishment does best: coalescing around a policy and convincing people that it would be sheer madness to oppose it. Government by social convention.
To some extent it’s a damning indictment of bourgeois democracy, of the way that those with power and privilege get to define what is politically acceptable and assert an unwritten consensus. A consensus that’s inescapable.
There is, however, a surprising consequence to the Remain campaign’s strategy of collecting celebrity endorsements like they were advertising walk-in baths. They’re creating a campaign of personalities rather than ideas. They’re trying to compel Britain to vote in a particular way rather than persuade them. And stubborn voters might not appreciate that.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/15/the-eu-referendum-is-becoming-a-contest-between-the-establishmen/
I'm beginning to think that Leave might win this.
That one picture has done more than anything to turn me against Cameron.
I think it's a terrible mistake.
You make it sounds as if Cameron was pictured alongside fringe Nazis. I never liked either Kinnock or Ashdown, but they were long-term leaders of major British political parties, and remain highly respected by those parties' supporters. Sadly, Leave really are starting to conform to their opponents' stereotype of them: that anyone who doubts Leave's cause must be a buffoon or a traitor. It's an unappealing look.
The Three EU Stooges photo is indelible and disastrous. As you well know.
Just got back from 3 hours standing outside a community centre (largely in the rain) in Hart (north-east Hampshire) handing out Vote Leave leaflets. Probably about 200.
Bit mixed.
Most going in/out were in their 30s/40s with young kids.
Three handed the leaflet directly back, all looked very "AB". One old lady harrumphed me about it as she was a firm Remainer, and then tried to sabotage me handing out leaflets by interrupting me for a further minute. Then she left. I had another ask me if I had "permission" to be there, who then disappeared when I pointed out to her it was a public place.
On the plus side, about 80% of people accepted a leaflet, and I saw at least 40% immediately flick through and read it. Some more carried it with them back out again, so hadn't thrown it away. Most people were polite, but a good number weren't not particularly interested and clearly just wanted to get on with their Saturday. A few were very friendly and smilely.
Had conversations with two very firm Leavers, who offered encouragement. Both over 55 I'd say.
Quite a few women saying "I just don't know", "I'm not sure".
It seems to broadly reflect the polls to me. But I'd say 30s/40s more apathetic/unsure.
Let's hope you get some decent targeting data. Knocking on doors is much more fun.
Comments
Pleb and proud.
I thought he could have made the simple point that it's in America's interests for us to be in the EU (who do I dial for Europe etc.), but we're not voting for them, we're voting for us.
It'll be exciting and I've not even done any threads on Brexit = Indyref 2. Yet
There's also the issue that throughout the 20th century living standards and equality steadily grew.
Its the stagnation of living standards and increase in inequality since the millennium which helps to destroy faith in the establishment.
A degree in PPE should be the bare minimum qualification before one is allowed to post.
Birds of a feather.
'If a doctor wishes to locum, unless their usual employer gives them an agreement in writing they cannot locum legally. This is also combined with locum caps (admittedly only for agencies, but most hospitals are putting them out accross the board) means that if you don't want to do your own hospital locum at the pathetic rate they are offering, you are not allowed to work for a different provider offering more.'
Just in case anyone believed 'this is not about money but patient care' spouted by junior doctors.
In his first interview since leaving the BBC, the Labour supporting former television boss attacked the party which has been plagued with claims of antisemitisim since Jeremy Corbyn was elected leader.
Cohen told The Times: 'If you are Jewish how can you vote for them? How could you? For me it would like being a Muslim and voting for Donald Trump, how could you do it? You have to feel absolutely confident that it is totally unacceptable and it won't be tolerated and I personally haven't felt comfortable that it is happening yet in the Labour party.'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3543125/Voting-Corbyn-s-Labour-like-Muslim-backing-Trump-says-left-wing-ex-BBC-boss-sacked-Jeremy-Clarkson.html
Cardinal Wolsey, son of a Butcher.
His Trust ratings are falling for a reason, it's an aggregation of feeling increasingly misled.
And it's not just him, got a Feldman begging email earlier. My desire to give money is evaporating given he wants to merge associations.
I'm really proud of the fact it was our Party that took a working class kid from Brixton, without a university degree, and made him Prime Minister
https://twitter.com/johndavidblake/status/721283460464254976
It really is spooky how so many memes of the Indy referendum are being re-run.
@paddyashdown: Brexit: Bnk of England wrong. IMF wrong. NATO wrong. EU wrong. C'wealth wrong Obama wrong. Boris right OK But wld you bet the country on it?'
The establishment doesn't want the UK to leave the EU that's a staggering development.
The same establishment that forecast economic collapse if the UK didn't join the euro ?
Agree on the co-ruler point. Justinian the Great [undeserved epithet] would've been toppled by the Nika rebellion if his decisive (but also dodgy) wife hadn't had more balls than him.
The referendum is like all referenda are here simply advisory. The government has to make the final decision but woe betide a government that went against the advice we gave.
Which is headlined 'Why it is in the Tory Party's best interests that Remain wins'
Apparently some Remainers like it.
Predictable desperate spinning.
By the way, as everyone knows, "Bexit" is the campaign for Bexley to secede from London and join Kent.
The inspiration for the thread came in an offsite conversation with a non Tory PBer
And you will get told off by the elite, as that means "The The People ... ".
Our flag will be three deckchairs and a gift shop in red, white and blue.
I still can't quite get over Remain's patronising campaign here - copied from Obama, but without any Hope & Change
The EU Referendum is much more important than to be trivialised down to what's good for your party (or for your chosen faction of your party).
There are plenty of Conservatives on here and elsewhere who seem to see no contradiction in voting LEAVE and being a Conservative and will still be Conservative Party members and supporters whichever side wins and that's fine.
I mean I know I'm from Sheffield, and that's an awesome, exclusive, and elite club.
Furthermore, to misquote Thatcher (and whomever she stole it from), if you have to tell people you're in the elite, you're not.
After your comment yesterday about dominatrix I don't see you as the type to be knitting in the crowd. Up there on the scaffold in thigh length leather boots and ....
Sorry, I am going to go and bathe my wrists in cold water then lie down in a darkened room.
But if you are the kind of person who sees cross-party campaigning and even a modest amount of single-issue consensus as a kind of betrayal then, well, you may be in tune with the temper of the times but you are also, and I’m sorry to be blunt about this, an idiot.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/04/if-you-think-this-photograph-is-shameful-you-should-probably-be-ashamed-of-yourself/
Let's be honest here, if those two gentlemen where for Leave and had done that photo-op with Boris, the Leavers wouldn't be anywhere near so indignant.
That one picture has done more than anything to turn me against Cameron.
I think it's a terrible mistake.
Bit mixed.
Most going in/out were in their 30s/40s with young kids.
Three handed the leaflet directly back, all looked very "AB". One old lady harrumphed me about it as she was a firm Remainer, and then tried to sabotage me handing out leaflets by interrupting me for a further minute. Then she left. I had another ask me if I had "permission" to be there, who then disappeared when I pointed out to her it was a public place.
On the plus side, about 80% of people accepted a leaflet, and I saw at least 40% immediately flick through and read it. Some more carried it with them back out again, so hadn't thrown it away. Most people were polite, but a good number weren't not particularly interested and clearly just wanted to get on with their Saturday. A few were very friendly and smilely.
Had conversations with two very firm Leavers, who offered encouragement. Both over 55 I'd say.
Quite a few women saying "I just don't know", "I'm not sure".
It seems to broadly reflect the polls to me. But I'd say 30s/40s more apathetic/unsure.
"you are an Englishman, and have subsequently drawn the greatest prize in the lottery of life"
You at least knew where you were with the Nazis and they tended to shoot you from the front.
You're supposed to write about the unexpectedly strong reception you received!
"Why it is in Leave's best interests that Cameron is destroyed"
I think it's a terrible mistake.
What really concerns me is how comfortable Cameron and Osborne are with the socialist part of the EU that the unions and Corbyn hold up as a benefit.
I must say I'm much more comfortable knocking on doors or delivering than standing in a public place. Kudos!