Twould appear that the Labour Party fully support the E and A pullout by the BMA..
Hmm, it's purely the Government that are at fault here - their intransigence has led to this. Allied with the fact the public are fully behind the doctors the Government will back down.
Cameron will get rid of Hunt who is obviously out of his depth and there'll be a subsequent review and backtrack. He'll be gone within 6 months. Is there a market for Hunt's departure/sack date?
'Re the idiot asking some woman to explain Brussels, there is no incitement to religious hatred there, IMO and both he and the police are behaving like morons.'
No no, surely this man's actions are the appalling 'backlash' those on the left are so worked up about....
It's perfectly reasonable to speak to someone who appears to be of the Muslim faith and ask them for their thoughts on the situation and their suggestion solutions (I have had before an interesting discussion with TSE on this point) but asking them to defend the actions of extremists within their own religion and explain themselves is just plain rude.
However, I don't think you should be arrested for being rude. It does seem that if you are rude at all to anyone from a religious or ethnic minority you now run the risk of arrest. It does not follow tha everyone being rude to them is inciting religious and racial hatred, nor that they should feel the collar of the law.
Personally, I think there is a boundary between social censure, reprimand, and satire, as a means of regulating poor behaviour, and the use of the law that is very poorly judged. So poorly in fact, that
I wouldn't dare have a casual conversation with anyone of Muslim appearance on this subject in public lest it go wrong. My motives simply wouldn't be trusted by the authorities and the presumption would be in favour of any 'victim' that felt subject to a hate crime. It's just too risky.
All it means is white Britons and Muslims are far less likely to talk to one another.
In this case, Cyclefree is right: the man at the centre, the police and the twitterati lynch mob are all acting like morons in this.
I don't think that rudeness should be illegal either, though it's obviously unreasonable to go and demand answers on anything from a stranger in the street.
The figures from NOAA are in for February 2016. As with the other global temperature datasets, February 2016 was the warmest February ever recorded.
It may not have dawned upon some of the right-wing fruitcakes that live on this blog but the world is warming significantly. No such thing as a "AGW trough" I'm afraid....
Unfortunately you are so ignorant of the basic principles of climatology that you have missed the whole point of an El Nino effect. It is a very stupid position to take because it means that when the temperatures drop over the next 5 years (as they will when we move to a La Nina event) you won't be able to point out that they are coming off the back of an El Nino and so shouldn't be used as an indicator of the direction of climate change. Well not without accepting how stupid your current comments are.
Put simply this is what happens when feck wits like you try to make points about science using data they don't understand.
LOL.
I'm talking about the trend my friend. There will always be natural variations like ENSO but it's about the TREND and the trend is UP.
2016 will most likely be the warmest year ever recorded as 2015 was and 2014 was. It's quite likely that 2017 will NOT be the warmest year recorded but that doesn't mean that AGW has stopped.
I fear when we review this in 5/10 years time, it is YOU that will look very stupid.
However, I am not going to be shouted down by a dick like you - you can insult me till the cows come home but I have science and the facts on my side...
The figures from NOAA are in for February 2016. As with the other global temperature datasets, February 2016 was the warmest February ever recorded.
It may not have dawned upon some of the right-wing fruitcakes that live on this blog but the world is warming significantly. No such thing as a "AGW trough" I'm afraid....
Unfortunately you are so ignorant of the basic principles of climatology that you have missed the whole point of an El Nino effect. It is a very stupid position to take because it means that when the temperatures drop over the next 5 years (as they will when we move to a La Nina event) you won't be able to point out that they are coming off the back of an El Nino and so shouldn't be used as an indicator of the direction of climate change. Well not without accepting how stupid your current comments are.
Put simply this is what happens when feck wits like you try to make points about science using data they don't understand.
You have to compare like for like absolutely so compare this El Nino to previous El Nino's. If we draw a graph from El Nino to El Nino (skipping the years in-between) is there evidence of a trend?
UKIP success is allowed as long as it's their success and they are more successful than anyone else within the party.
Indeed. The big "known unknown" still to come this campaign is finding out which Leave campaign is designated as the primary one and the commensurate amount of publicity they receive.
Personally as a swing voter on this I would be deeply put off by the Banks/Farage/Galloway/Bone Leave.EU campaign but am attracted to the Gove/Johnson/Hannan/Carswell/Hoey Vote Leave campaign. Others may be in an opposite position.
I think opinion polls before this is finalised in April should be taken with an extra large pinch of salt.
'I don't think that rudeness should be illegal either, though it's obviously unreasonable to go and demand answers on anything from a stranger in the street.'
Out of interest Nick, did you vote against the legislation passed by your party that allowed these sorts of things to happen (i.e. people being arrested for being rude or unreasonable)?
'Re the idiot asking some woman to explain Brussels, there is no incitement to religious hatred there, IMO and both he and the police are behaving like morons.'
No no, surely this man's actions are the appalling 'backlash' those on the left are so worked up about....
It's perfectly reasonable to speak to someone who appears to be of the Muslim faith and ask them for their thoughts on the situation and their suggestion solutions (I have had before an interesting discussion with TSE on this point) but asking them to defend the actions of extremists within their own religion and explain themselves is just plain rude.
However, I don't think you should be arrested for being rude. It does seem that if you are rude at all to anyone from a religious or ethnic minority you now run the risk of arrest. It does not follow tha everyone being rude to them is inciting religious and racial hatred, nor that they should feel the collar of the law.
Personally, I think there is a boundary between social censure, reprimand, and satire, as a means of regulating poor behaviour, and the use of the law that is very poorly judged. So poorly in fact, that
I wouldn't dare have a casual conversation with anyone of Muslim appearance on this subject in public lest it go wrong. My motives simply wouldn't be trusted by the authorities and the presumption would be in favour of any 'victim' that felt subject to a hate crime. It's just too risky.
All it means is white Britons and Muslims are far less likely to talk to one another.
In this case, Cyclefree is right: the man at the centre, the police and the twitterati lynch mob are all acting like morons in this.
Well, the Muslim friends that I have despise the terrorists and militants more than anyone I know, but then I don't think the hardliners would consider them to be "true" Muslims since they drink alcohol.
The figures from NOAA are in for February 2016. As with the other global temperature datasets, February 2016 was the warmest February ever recorded.
It may not have dawned upon some of the right-wing fruitcakes that live on this blog but the world is warming significantly. No such thing as a "AGW trough" I'm afraid....
Unfortunately you are so ignorant of the basic principles of climatology that you have missed the whole point of an El Nino effect. It is a very stupid position to take because it means that when the temperatures drop over the next 5 years (as they will when we move to a La Nina event) you won't be able to point out that they are coming off the back of an El Nino and so shouldn't be used as an indicator of the direction of climate change. Well not without accepting how stupid your current comments are.
Put simply this is what happens when feck wits like you try to make points about science using data they don't understand.
LOL.
I'm talking about the trend my friend. There will always be natural variations like ENSO but it's about the TREND and the trend is UP.
2016 will most likely be the warmest year ever recorded as 2015 was and 2014 was. It's quite likely that 2017 will NOT be the warmest year recorded but that doesn't mean that AGW has stopped.
I fear when we review this in 5/10 years time, it is YOU that will look very stupid.
However, I am not going to be shouted down by a dick like you - you can insult me till the cows come home but I have science and the facts on my side...
Neither 2014 nor 2015 were warmest ever recorded according to the satellite record. Of course as someone who scorns real science you ignore that because it doesn't match your political view.
Corbyn is, personally, the much nicer man it appears, but even if a lot of people dislike the Tories I am surprised he is more popular, as his more far out policy positions are just too offputting for me. Just guessing there's been a sudden drop in Tories saying they like Cameron, but still surprised there would be a surge for Corbyn - he's been a bit quieter, but if someone didn't like him before I don't see what has changed that means more would like him now.
The figures from NOAA are in for February 2016. As with the other global temperature datasets, February 2016 was the warmest February ever recorded.
It may not have dawned upon some of the right-wing fruitcakes that live on this blog but the world is warming significantly. No such thing as a "AGW trough" I'm afraid....
Unfortunately you are so ignorant of the basic principles of climatology that you have missed the whole point of an El Nino effect. It is a very stupid position to take because it means that when the temperatures drop over the next 5 years (as they will when we move to a La Nina event) you won't be able to point out that they are coming off the back of an El Nino and so shouldn't be used as an indicator of the direction of climate change. Well not without accepting how stupid your current comments are.
Put simply this is what happens when feck wits like you try to make points about science using data they don't understand.
LOL.
I'm talking about the trend my friend. There will always be natural variations like ENSO but it's about the TREND and the trend is UP.
2016 will most likely be the warmest year ever recorded as 2015 was and 2014 was. It's quite likely that 2017 will NOT be the warmest year recorded but that doesn't mean that AGW has stopped.
I fear when we review this in 5/10 years time, it is YOU that will look very stupid.
However, I am not going to be shouted down by a dick like you - you can insult me till the cows come home but I have science and the facts on my side...
Neither 2014 nor 2015 were warmest ever recorded according to the satellite record. Of course as someone who scorns real science you ignore that because it doesn't match your political view.
As a matter of interest how far back does satellite data go? There seems to be a whole bunch of climatological satellites now but presumably they are of quite recent vintage?
@GeoffM - prob don't have the same issue in Gib, but what happened to the local referendums to approve increases in council tax before they could be imposed?
No one asked me about the 4% increase in my bill last week, which has now made me £100 a year worse off.
2% max but the same allowed for social care. Clearly councils need more than 2 but the government doesn't want to be seen to be opening the floodgates so wont get rid of the referendum commitment and just gets round it. Bloody stupid.
What it shows to me is that unless constrained by legislation almost all councils would rather impose council tax rises than make difficult decisions on spending cuts to freeze it.
You may have a view one way or the other on what's best but local democracy is a sham.
Councils have seen their central income stream reduced drastically while having their responsibilities (E.g. the Care Act 2015) increased. There are only so many efficiencies that can be found within a particular legal framework. Councils can't just say "Sorry, we can't afford social care for the elderly any more".
The figures from NOAA are in for February 2016. As with the other global temperature datasets, February 2016 was the warmest February ever recorded.
It may not have dawned upon some of the right-wing fruitcakes that live on this blog but the world is warming significantly. No such thing as a "AGW trough" I'm afraid....
Unfortunately you are so ignorant of the basic principles of climatology that you have missed the whole point of an El Nino effect. It is a very stupid position to take because it means that when the temperatures drop over the next 5 years (as they will when we move to a La Nina event) you won't be able to point out that they are coming off the back of an El Nino and so shouldn't be used as an indicator of the direction of climate change. Well not without accepting how stupid your current comments are.
Put simply this is what happens when feck wits like you try to make points about science using data they don't understand.
LOL.
I'm talking about the trend my friend. There will always be natural variations like ENSO but it's about the TREND and the trend is UP.
2016 will most likely be the warmest year ever recorded as 2015 was and 2014 was. It's quite likely that 2017 will NOT be the warmest year recorded but that doesn't mean that AGW has stopped.
I fear when we review this in 5/10 years time, it is YOU that will look very stupid.
However, I am not going to be shouted down by a dick like you - you can insult me till the cows come home but I have science and the facts on my side...
Neither 2014 nor 2015 were warmest ever recorded according to the satellite record. Of course as someone who scorns real science you ignore that because it doesn't match your political view.
Pot vs Kettle Mr Tyndall knows better than the majority of scientists and if you disagree he will swear at you.
I think this is why the PM is thinking things over in Lanzarote. His backing of Osborne's Remain stance is costing him his legacy as one of the best post-war PMs and the man who led the Tories to the promised lands after 13 years in the wilderness and 23 years without an outright election victory. Osborne is a dead man walking.
UKIP success is allowed as long as it's their success and they are more successful than anyone else within the party.
Indeed. The big "known unknown" still to come this campaign is finding out which Leave campaign is designated as the primary one and the commensurate amount of publicity they receive.
Personally as a swing voter on this I would be deeply put off by the Banks/Farage/Galloway/Bone Leave.EU campaign but am attracted to the Gove/Johnson/Hannan/Carswell/Hoey Vote Leave campaign. Others may be in an opposite position.
I think opinion polls before this is finalised in April should be taken with an extra large pinch of salt.
Farage and Galloway will be on the radar if Leave.EU are selected, they will be dominating the radar.
F1: stories that there's going to be a vote on qualifying held today, I think (either today or next Thursday).
Also, Sky exclusivity from 2016-18 was, reportedly, blocked by teams. It wasn't from 2019 onwards because, apparently, they had no idea a deal was coming.
I do wonder if Ferrari, Mercedes, Williams, McLaren, Red Bull et al. should simply break away.
Mr. Song, science isn't democratic. The idea that disagreeing with the majority makes one wrong, or one's ideas wrong, is to fundamentally misunderstand the scientific method. Competing theories are positive, and being right is down to how many agree with you, but how sound your views are and how closely they tally with the evidence available.
The figures from NOAA are in for February 2016. As with the other global temperature datasets, February 2016 was the warmest February ever recorded.
It may not have dawned upon some of the right-wing fruitcakes that live on this blog but the world is warming significantly. No such thing as a "AGW trough" I'm afraid....
Unfortunately you are so ignorant of the basic principles of climatology that you have missed the whole point of an El Nino effect. It is a very stupid position to take because it means that when the temperatures drop over the next 5 years (as they will when we move to a La Nina event) you won't be able to point out that they are coming off the back of an El Nino and so shouldn't be used as an indicator of the direction of climate change. Well not without accepting how stupid your current comments are.
Put simply this is what happens when feck wits like you try to make points about science using data they don't understand.
LOL.
I'm talking about the trend my friend. There will always be natural variations like ENSO but it's about the TREND and the trend is UP.
2016 will most likely be the warmest year ever recorded as 2015 was and 2014 was. It's quite likely that 2017 will NOT be the warmest year recorded but that doesn't mean that AGW has stopped.
I fear when we review this in 5/10 years time, it is YOU that will look very stupid.
However, I am not going to be shouted down by a dick like you - you can insult me till the cows come home but I have science and the facts on my side...
Neither 2014 nor 2015 were warmest ever recorded according to the satellite record. Of course as someone who scorns real science you ignore that because it doesn't match your political view.
As a matter of interest how far back does satellite data go? There seems to be a whole bunch of climatological satellites now but presumably they are of quite recent vintage?
Late 1970s. Only two are considered standards. UAH and RSS.
UKIP success is allowed as long as it's their success and they are more successful than anyone else within the party.
Indeed. The big "known unknown" still to come this campaign is finding out which Leave campaign is designated as the primary one and the commensurate amount of publicity they receive.
Personally as a swing voter on this I would be deeply put off by the Banks/Farage/Galloway/Bone Leave.EU campaign but am attracted to the Gove/Johnson/Hannan/Carswell/Hoey Vote Leave campaign. Others may be in an opposite position.
I think opinion polls before this is finalised in April should be taken with an extra large pinch of salt.
You've forgotten Farage?
That is precisely what absolutely infuriates this petulant child of a man.
@GeoffM - prob don't have the same issue in Gib, but what happened to the local referendums to approve increases in council tax before they could be imposed?
No one asked me about the 4% increase in my bill last week, which has now made me £100 a year worse off.
2% max but the same allowed for social care. Clearly councils need more than 2 but the government doesn't want to be seen to be opening the floodgates so wont get rid of the referendum commitment and just gets round it. Bloody stupid.
What it shows to me is that unless constrained by legislation almost all councils would rather impose council tax rises than make difficult decisions on spending cuts to freeze it.
You may have a view one way or the other on what's best but local democracy is a sham.
Councils have seen their central income stream reduced drastically while having their responsibilities (E.g. the Care Act 2015) increased. There are only so many efficiencies that can be found within a particular legal framework. Councils can't just say "Sorry, we can't afford social care for the elderly any more".
And if the local MP is Conservative they’ll get a letter asking why they haven’t made back-office economies, rather than savings on services. Espeially if said MP is a Caninet Minister.
UKIP success is allowed as long as it's their success and they are more successful than anyone else within the party.
Indeed. The big "known unknown" still to come this campaign is finding out which Leave campaign is designated as the primary one and the commensurate amount of publicity they receive.
Personally as a swing voter on this I would be deeply put off by the Banks/Farage/Galloway/Bone Leave.EU campaign but am attracted to the Gove/Johnson/Hannan/Carswell/Hoey Vote Leave campaign. Others may be in an opposite position.
I think opinion polls before this is finalised in April should be taken with an extra large pinch of salt.
Farage and Galloway will be on the radar if Leave.EU are selected, they will be dominating the radar.
It does seem certain that Leave.EU won't be selected though. Given the published criteria I can't see any case for them. (I say this in sadness, as it would be good for Remain and public mirth if they were chosen.)
@GeoffM - prob don't have the same issue in Gib, but what happened to the local referendums to approve increases in council tax before they could be imposed?
No one asked me about the 4% increase in my bill last week, which has now made me £100 a year worse off.
2% max but the same allowed for social care. Clearly councils need more than 2 but the government doesn't want to be seen to be opening the floodgates so wont get rid of the referendum commitment and just gets round it. Bloody stupid.
What it shows to me is that unless constrained by legislation almost all councils would rather impose council tax rises than make difficult decisions on spending cuts to freeze it.
You may have a view one way or the other on what's best but local democracy is a sham.
Councils have seen their central income stream reduced drastically while having their responsibilities (E.g. the Care Act 2015) increased. There are only so many efficiencies that can be found within a particular legal framework. Councils can't just say "Sorry, we can't afford social care for the elderly any more".
I don't care about the excuses. I just want to know who I vote out and who I vote in to stop my council tax increasing
Right now I think the answer is 'no one' but can you vote for us anyway please?
Local democracy is broken. I will be spoiling my ballot (for the first time ever)
@NickPalmer: I quite agree with you that rudeness should not be illegal.
But too often it does look as if we are using the law to enforce good manners. And this cannot and should not be done. There is law and there is freedom. And in the middle are good manners which consist of taboos and precedents and conventions, generally understood by all. Substituting the law for these conventions leads to unfeasible state control and tyranny. Having no such conventions leads to chaos.
I have many reasons for disliking much of the legislation such as the Religious Hatred legislation but one of them is that it is seeking to enforce that which would be better done collectively by us through social behaviour. Using the police to tell someone that they are behaving like a prat is evidence of a society which no longer has confidence in its ability to govern itself, a society which has lost - or is in danger of losing - its own internal self-regulating conscience.
Over-use of the law to regulate behaviour infantilises society - and leads to a lack of respect for the law, indeed, ultimately for the very idea of the rule of law. If you only not do something because you might be arrested rather than because you understand that it is not the right thing to do, you are behaving like a child and not like an adult with a moral compass.
'Re the idiot asking some woman to explain Brussels, there is no incitement to religious hatred there, IMO and both he and the police are behaving like morons.'
No no, surely this man's actions are the appalling 'backlash' those on the left are so worked up about....
It's perfectly reasonable to speak to someone who appears to be of the Muslim faith and ask them for their thoughts on the situation and their suggestion solutions (I have had before an interesting discussion with TSE on this point) but asking them to defend the actions of extremists within their own religion and explain themselves is just plain rude.
However, I don't think you should be arrested for being rude. It does seem that if you are rude at all to anyone from a religious or ethnic minority you now run the risk of arrest. It does not follow tha everyone being rude to them is inciting religious and racial hatred, nor that they should feel the collar of the law.
Personally, I think there is a boundary between social censure, reprimand, and satire, as a means of regulating poor behaviour, and the use of the law that is very poorly judged. So poorly in fact, that
I wouldn't dare have a casual conversation with anyone of Muslim appearance on this subject in public lest it go wrong. My motives simply wouldn't be trusted by the authorities and the presumption would be in favour of any 'victim' that felt subject to a hate crime. It's just too risky.
All it means is white Britons and Muslims are far less likely to talk to one another.
In this case, Cyclefree is right: the man at the centre, the police and the twitterati lynch mob are all acting like morons in this.
Well, the Muslim friends that I have despise the terrorists and militants more than anyone I know, but then I don't think the hardliners would consider them to be "true" Muslims since they drink alcohol.
I think any problems with that will be if the questioner is simply hunting for people to attack rather than seeking understanding.
In my experience Muslims have no problem with criticism, but will if there is an overlay of trolling or contempt. They are right to have a problem with the latter.
An example would be anyone who thinks that Sharia is a frozen system of values and punishments, rather than a varied and evolving tradition. There are, for example, several countries with Sharia-based legal systems where the death penalty has been withdrawn or is not used.
Anyone dismissing Sharia on the basis that it does, or in some places did, permit X Y or Z punishment which they think acceptable must also reject English Law on the basis that we used to hang, draw and quarter people.
The figures from NOAA are in for February 2016. As with the other global temperature datasets, February 2016 was the warmest February ever recorded.
It may not have dawned upon some of the right-wing fruitcakes that live on this blog but the world is warming significantly. No such thing as a "AGW trough" I'm afraid....
Unfortunately you are so ignorant of the basic principles of climatology that you have missed the whole point of an El Nino effect. It is a very stupid position to take because it means that when the temperatures drop over the next 5 years (as they will when we move to a La Nina event) you won't be able to point out that they are coming off the back of an El Nino and so shouldn't be used as an indicator of the direction of climate change. Well not without accepting how stupid your current comments are.
Put simply this is what happens when feck wits like you try to make points about science using data they don't understand.
You have to compare like for like absolutely so compare this El Nino to previous El Nino's. If we draw a graph from El Nino to El Nino (skipping the years in-between) is there evidence of a trend?
It is a very good question but unfortunately isn't that straightforward. One thing that all the climate experts agree on is you can't compare El Nino events on a like for like basis. No one is clear on all the factors that contribute to an El Nino event and the variation is both strength and effect is huge. So although 97-98 was strong, the following four El Nino events were either weak or moderate.
UKIP success is allowed as long as it's their success and they are more successful than anyone else within the party.
Indeed. The big "known unknown" still to come this campaign is finding out which Leave campaign is designated as the primary one and the commensurate amount of publicity they receive.
Personally as a swing voter on this I would be deeply put off by the Banks/Farage/Galloway/Bone Leave.EU campaign but am attracted to the Gove/Johnson/Hannan/Carswell/Hoey Vote Leave campaign. Others may be in an opposite position.
I think opinion polls before this is finalised in April should be taken with an extra large pinch of salt.
Farage and Galloway will be on the radar if Leave.EU are selected, they will be dominating the radar.
It's game over if Leave.EU are made the official campaign.
Which is precisely why I expect there's a huge amount of pressure on the Electoral Commission behind the scenes by the powers that be to make it so.
One is a Leave campaign, the other is a Farage personality cult.
True.
It is noticeable that none of the regular kippers on here seem able to utter a word in defence of Farage's behaviour in recent months.
According to what I've read the 2015 micro-targeting involved email and face-to-face discussion with swing voters focused on subjects they were known to be bothered about - jobs, schools, etc.
I don't think you can replicate that with Twitter for all kinds of reasons but mostly because undecided people don't look to Twitter feeds as a source of inspiration. The followers of a Twitter feed are mostly people who already agree with it. And most people aren't on Twitter at all.
There are lots of individual campaigns as well - I'm a member of Business for Britain as well as their financial services sub-campaign. They certainly have regional organisations as well.
The figures from NOAA are in for February 2016. As with the other global temperature datasets, February 2016 was the warmest February ever recorded.
It may not have dawned upon some of the right-wing fruitcakes that live on this blog but the world is warming significantly. No such thing as a "AGW trough" I'm afraid....
Unfortunately you are so ignorant of the basic principles of climatology that you have missed the whole point of an El Nino effect. It is a very stupid position to take because it means that when the temperatures drop over the next 5 years (as they will when we move to a La Nina event) you won't be able to point out that they are coming off the back of an El Nino and so shouldn't be used as an indicator of the direction of climate change. Well not without accepting how stupid your current comments are.
Put simply this is what happens when feck wits like you try to make points about science using data they don't understand.
LOL.
I'm talking about the trend my friend. There will always be natural variations like ENSO but it's about the TREND and the trend is UP.
2016 will most likely be the warmest year ever recorded as 2015 was and 2014 was. It's quite likely that 2017 will NOT be the warmest year recorded but that doesn't mean that AGW has stopped.
I fear when we review this in 5/10 years time, it is YOU that will look very stupid.
However, I am not going to be shouted down by a dick like you - you can insult me till the cows come home but I have science and the facts on my side...
Neither 2014 nor 2015 were warmest ever recorded according to the satellite record. Of course as someone who scorns real science you ignore that because it doesn't match your political view.
Ah the satellite data! It is by far the dataset that needs the largest pinch of salt. It is the dataset that has had the most number of adjustments over time (all up of course). One of the datasets from RSS has been adjusted again recently (adjusted up of course!). I'm sure others will follow...
UKIP success is allowed as long as it's their success and they are more successful than anyone else within the party.
Indeed. The big "known unknown" still to come this campaign is finding out which Leave campaign is designated as the primary one and the commensurate amount of publicity they receive.
Personally as a swing voter on this I would be deeply put off by the Banks/Farage/Galloway/Bone Leave.EU campaign but am attracted to the Gove/Johnson/Hannan/Carswell/Hoey Vote Leave campaign. Others may be in an opposite position.
I think opinion polls before this is finalised in April should be taken with an extra large pinch of salt.
Farage and Galloway will be on the radar if Leave.EU are selected, they will be dominating the radar.
It does seem certain that Leave.EU won't be selected though. Given the published criteria I can't see any case for them. (I say this in sadness, as it would be good for Remain and public mirth if they were chosen.)
If they lost they will do everything possible to undermine Vote Leave all the way to the voting day on 23rd June, and then blame them if they lose.
Banks and Farage need to be kidnapped and bound in a dark room for the next 3 months.
I think any problems with that will be if the questioner is simply hunting for people to attack rather than seeking understanding.
In my experience Muslims have no problem with criticism, but will if there is an overlay of trolling or contempt. They are right to have a problem with the latter.
An example would be anyone who thinks that Sharia is a frozen system of values and punishments, rather than a varied and evolving tradition. There are, for example, several countries with Sharia-based legal systems where the death penalty has been withdrawn or is not used.
Anyone dismissing Sharia on the basis that it does, or in some places did, permit X Y or Z punishment which they think acceptable must also reject English Law on the basis that we used to hang, draw and quarter people.
There’s a WEA lecturer in Essex and Suffolk, a Muslim, who emphasises the variation in “muslin culture” in different countries and regions.
One is a Leave campaign, the other is a Farage personality cult.
True.
It is noticeable that none of the regular kippers on here seem able to utter a word in defence of Farage's behaviour in recent months.
According to what I've read the 2015 micro-targeting involved email and face-to-face discussion with swing voters focused on subjects they were known to be bothered about - jobs, schools, etc.
I don't think you can replicate that with Twitter for all kinds of reasons but mostly because undecided people don't look to Twitter feeds as a source of inspiration. The followers of a Twitter feed are mostly people who already agree with it. And most people aren't on Twitter at all.
There are lots of individual campaigns as well - I'm a member of Business for Britain as well as their financial services sub-campaign. They certainly have regional organisations as well.
UKIP success is allowed as long as it's their success and they are more successful than anyone else within the party.
Indeed. The big "known unknown" still to come this campaign is finding out which Leave campaign is designated as the primary one and the commensurate amount of publicity they receive.
Personally as a swing voter on this I would be deeply put off by the Banks/Farage/Galloway/Bone Leave.EU campaign but am attracted to the Gove/Johnson/Hannan/Carswell/Hoey Vote Leave campaign. Others may be in an opposite position.
I think opinion polls before this is finalised in April should be taken with an extra large pinch of salt.
Farage and Galloway will be on the radar if Leave.EU are selected, they will be dominating the radar.
It's game over if Leave.EU are made the official campaign.
Which is precisely why I expect there's a huge amount of pressure on the Electoral Commission behind the scenes by the powers that be to make it so.
I have wondered about that but, as I say, I can't see how it could be justified when Vote Leave is far more credibly cross-party and mainstream. All I can think of is that the leader of the signature Out party is in Leave.EU but the lots of his members and his MP are with Vote Leave.
Can anybody posting here make a case for Leave.EU?
There seems to be a majority for leave on this forum but I cannot come to a conclusion at this stage even though I am generally remain. David Cameron told the 1922 Committee he wanted 'time to think' on his Easter holiday in the Canaries. I do wonder if he may consider being less committed and more neutral on his return. In those circumstances it would be a boost to leave but even then I just think it is too soon to be confident of either outcome and would only expect matters to solidify in late May and during June
Look around close to you. If you work, decide how it affects the industry that you work in; speak to friends in different industries, ask them. They of course won't have gone through entire cost-benefit analyses but will give you a feel.
The Brussels terrorist gang were preparing an attack on a nuclear power plant and had recorded 12 hours of reconnaissance footage, it has been reported.
The ISIS cell were spying on the Belgian’s nuclear power chief, possibly as part of a kidnap plan to force him to let them into an atomic facility, according to newspaper Derniere Heure.
Hours of film of the home of the Research and Development Director of the Belgian Nuclear Programme were discovered in an apartment in Brussels raided by anti-terrorist police following the attack in Paris.
There seems to be a majority for leave on this forum but I cannot come to a conclusion at this stage even though I am generally remain. David Cameron told the 1922 Committee he wanted 'time to think' on his Easter holiday in the Canaries. I do wonder if he may consider being less committed and more neutral on his return. In those circumstances it would be a boost to leave but even then I just think it is too soon to be confident of either outcome and would only expect matters to solidify in late May and during June
I am not so sure when it finally comes to applying the X on the ballot paper that the majority even in this forum will vote for Out. The Remain campaign though hasn't quite got it right imo - - I'd like to see more love bombing rather than fear mongering (though that does have its place). The Europeans actually don't want us to go - many see the UK as a positive influence on the EU and perhaps we should hear more about that for example.
@MattW - My objection to sharia law is to the fact that it is religiously based, its content (though I take your point that it may not be monolithic), that it is incompatible with the ECHR which expresses and underpins much of Western legal thinking and, above all, that in England English law should prevail. You cannot have different groups choosing to live under different and incompatible legal systems. That is, in effect, the state losing sovereignty over its territory and the people in it.
I also think you make a good point about the difference between criticism/argument and simply wanting to attack someone for what group they belong to. By the same token, it does sometimes appear that some in the Muslim community react to any criticism on a personal level and go into "victim" mode rather than deal with the criticism. Indeed, it can appear that this is sometimes done precisely in order to deflect the criticism and make those making it feel bad for even raising an issue. The conflation between the personal and the general - as exemplified by that weasel word "Islamophobia" to cover criticism of a belief system and an attack on an individual is not conducive to intelligent argument, alas.
Chin up, Farage is a tiny blip compared to the wider Leave campaign. I'd prefer him locked in the attic, but whichever campaign wins - he wouldn't shut up
Too much knowledge is hamstringing you. Most voters don't care or notice.
UKIP success is allowed as long as it's their success and they are more successful than anyone else within the party.
Indeed. The big "known unknown" still to come this campaign is finding out which Leave campaign is designated as the primary one and the commensurate amount of publicity they receive.
Personally as a swing voter on this I would be deeply put off by the Banks/Farage/Galloway/Bone Leave.EU campaign but am attracted to the Gove/Johnson/Hannan/Carswell/Hoey Vote Leave campaign. Others may be in an opposite position.
I think opinion polls before this is finalised in April should be taken with an extra large pinch of salt.
Farage and Galloway will be on the radar if Leave.EU are selected, they will be dominating the radar.
It's game over if Leave.EU are made the official campaign.
Which is precisely why I expect there's a huge amount of pressure on the Electoral Commission behind the scenes by the powers that be to make it so.
Mr. Royale, even more importantly, he registered highly on the Morris Dancer patented Lightweight-o-meter (previous big hitters being Burnham, back when some thought him credible, and Sajid Javid).
Chin up, Farage is a tiny blip compared to the wider Leave campaign. I'd prefer him locked in the attic, but whichever campaign wins - he wouldn't shut up
Too much knowledge is hamstringy you. Most voters don't care or notice.
UKIP success is allowed as long as it's their success and they are more successful than anyone else within the party.
Indeed. The big "known unknown" still to come this campaign is finding out which Leave campaign is designated as the primary one and the commensurate amount of publicity they receive.
Personally as a swing voter on this I would be deeply put off by the Banks/Farage/Galloway/Bone Leave.EU campaign but am attracted to the Gove/Johnson/Hannan/Carswell/Hoey Vote Leave campaign. Others may be in an opposite position.
I think opinion polls before this is finalised in April should be taken with an extra large pinch of salt.
Farage and Galloway will be on the radar if Leave.EU are selected, they will be dominating the radar.
It's game over if Leave.EU are made the official campaign.
Which is precisely why I expect there's a huge amount of pressure on the Electoral Commission behind the scenes by the powers that be to make it so.
Robert Shrimley This is literally the best story ever: Microsoft's AI twitter bot turned racist after 15 hours on twitter https://t.co/5RKIchXmUW
The tech company introduced "Tay" this week — a bot that responds to users' queries and emulates the casual, jokey speech patterns of a stereotypical millennial.
The aim was to "experiment with and conduct research on conversational understanding," with Tay able to learn from "her" conversations and get progressively "smarter."
But Tay proved a smash hit with racists, trolls, and online troublemakers — who persuaded Tay to blithely use racial slurs, defend white supremacist propaganda, and even outright call for genocide.
The best bit
In one highly publicised tweet, which has since been deleted, Tay said: "bush did 9/11 and Hitler would have done a better job than the monkey we have now. donald trump is the only hope we've got." In another, responding to a question, she said "ricky gervais learned totalitarianism from adolf hitler, the inventor of atheism."
Sam Coates There is unconfirmed talk of Jeremy Hunt to Commons Leader post referendum to help with Tory reunification - Tory source
Hmm. Hunt seems to have caused all the problems with Health that Gove did with Education without any of the success.
Also he's an EU welcher.
Hunt's got the contract through. It wasn't pretty how he did it, but he hasn't buckled like a Bojo certainly would in that position.
We haven’t seen how many are going to sign up in June/July though. Empty junior posts in August because those who “should” have filled them have gone elsewhere will bring problems.
I think this is why the PM is thinking things over in Lanzarote. His backing of Osborne's Remain stance is costing him his legacy as one of the best post-war PMs and the man who led the Tories to the promised lands after 13 years in the wilderness and 23 years without an outright election victory. Osborne is a dead man walking.
To be fair the reason he's had such smooth sailing until now is because of his policy of deferring problems rather than solving them. Last week's problems were the combination of two of those deferred problems catching up at once: unrealistic promises on the budget, and fobbing off eurosceptic MPs with a referendum.
How awful are Labour when in the week that the Tories have their worst ever split since 1990's and the most poorly received budget since the omnishambles they are still two points behind.
The strikes including emergency cover will get the public into a "they're both as bad as each other" mood, which is good enough for the Gov't. Hunt's not backing down on this, as much as quite alot of people would like him to.
Sam Coates There is unconfirmed talk of Jeremy Hunt to Commons Leader post referendum to help with Tory reunification - Tory source
Hmm. Hunt seems to have caused all the problems with Health that Gove did with Education without any of the success.
Also he's an EU welcher.
Hunt's got the contract through. It wasn't pretty how he did it, but he hasn't buckled like a Bojo certainly would in that position.
Has he though? I thought he was going to impose it but it was still yet to be imposed?
I'm not voting for Boris.
I would only vote for Boris if it was a choice between him and Osborne. Though I find it unlikely Osborne will make the final two, or even stand at this point.
The strikes including emergency cover will get the public into a "they're both as bad as each other" mood, which is good enough for the Gov't. Hunt's not backing down on this, as much as quite alot of people would like him to.
It will also feed into the narrative that the Tories are the best/unafraid of making touch decisions
UKIP success is allowed as long as it's their success and they are more successful than anyone else within the party.
Indeed. The big "known unknown" still to come this campaign is finding out which Leave campaign is designated as the primary one and the commensurate amount of publicity they receive.
Personally as a swing voter on this I would be deeply put off by the Banks/Farage/Galloway/Bone Leave.EU campaign but am attracted to the Gove/Johnson/Hannan/Carswell/Hoey Vote Leave campaign. Others may be in an opposite position.
I think opinion polls before this is finalised in April should be taken with an extra large pinch of salt.
Farage and Galloway will be on the radar if Leave.EU are selected, they will be dominating the radar.
It does seem certain that Leave.EU won't be selected though. Given the published criteria I can't see any case for them. (I say this in sadness, as it would be good for Remain and public mirth if they were chosen.)
If they lost they will do everything possible to undermine Vote Leave all the way to the voting day on 23rd June, and then blame them if they lose.
Banks and Farage need to be kidnapped and bound in a dark room for the next 3 months.
As a Remainer I am encouraged by how Farage is proving to be such an asset for our side. He is an arse and most of his party is a rolling shambles (see S Evans) and a continuing useful reminder of why we don't want the loons to take over the kitchen after Jun 23rd.
Robert Shrimley This is literally the best story ever: Microsoft's AI twitter bot turned racist after 15 hours on twitter https://t.co/5RKIchXmUW
The tech company introduced "Tay" this week — a bot that responds to users' queries and emulates the casual, jokey speech patterns of a stereotypical millennial.
The aim was to "experiment with and conduct research on conversational understanding," with Tay able to learn from "her" conversations and get progressively "smarter."
But Tay proved a smash hit with racists, trolls, and online troublemakers — who persuaded Tay to blithely use racial slurs, defend white supremacist propaganda, and even outright call for genocide.
The best bit
In one highly publicised tweet, which has since been deleted, Tay said: "bush did 9/11 and Hitler would have done a better job than the monkey we have now. donald trump is the only hope we've got." In another, responding to a question, she said "ricky gervais learned totalitarianism from adolf hitler, the inventor of atheism."
Its like the episode out of the Good Wife all over again (which was based upon a real incident at Google, where their image matching algorithms displayed African American's as a result to the search Monkey)
Next time someone asks me to explain the difference between the Tories ruthlessness and Labour when it comes to leader/potential leaders, this past week is the perfect example.
An unpopular chancellor on course to be party leader/PM that we all know that will go down badly with the voters,
Labour elected him as leader via a coronation
The Tories knobbled him before he could even stand.
As a Remainer I am encouraged by how Farage is proving to be such an asset for our side. He is an arse and most of his party is a rolling shambles (see S Evans) and a continuing useful reminder of why we don't want the loons to take over the kitchen after Jun 23rd.
A good title for a 'wholostit' analysis of the Leave campaign would be 'Why didn't they ask Evans?'. Assuming Remain wins of course which is looking a bit shaky.
Mr. Eagles, I made the same comparison a little while ago. The Conservatives look for reasons to commit regicide (even before the coronation, if need be). Labour looks for reasons not to.
That said, the sheep don't benefit from their rulebook. The wolves, however, enjoy theirs rather more.
Comments
I don't think that rudeness should be illegal either, though it's obviously unreasonable to go and demand answers on anything from a stranger in the street.
I'm talking about the trend my friend. There will always be natural variations like ENSO but it's about the TREND and the trend is UP.
2016 will most likely be the warmest year ever recorded as 2015 was and 2014 was. It's quite likely that 2017 will NOT be the warmest year recorded but that doesn't mean that AGW has stopped.
I fear when we review this in 5/10 years time, it is YOU that will look very stupid.
However, I am not going to be shouted down by a dick like you - you can insult me till the cows come home but I have science and the facts on my side...
Your joke is brilliant.
That is the way to deal with morons - of all types. Humour and satire and ridicule.
I look forward to your thread. There may be parallels to how it felt being Irish in Britain when the IRA was bombing like there was no tomorrow.
George Osborne’s ratings plunge after Budget and Jeremy Corbyn is more popular than PM
The Conservative lead over Labour has narrowed to just two points, at 36 per cent — down three points — to 34 points, up one point.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/osborne-s-ratings-plunge-after-budget-and-corbyn-is-more-popular-than-pm-a3210916.html
This is overplayed tremendously IMHO. The message not the messenger is the key.
I think Donald Trump, "new low"
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/712850174838771712
Out of interest Nick, did you vote against the legislation passed by your party that allowed these sorts of things to happen (i.e. people being arrested for being rude or unreasonable)?
A good day to all.
I could never be a suicide bomber, why would anyone want 72 virgins, give me one experienced lady any day of the week.
Plus, no one has ever confirmed that these 72 virgins are female.
Some suicide bombers might be in for a shock.
Mr Tyndall knows better than the majority of scientists and if you disagree he will swear at you.
H'Angus the Monkey for President of the EU Commission.
Also, Sky exclusivity from 2016-18 was, reportedly, blocked by teams. It wasn't from 2019 onwards because, apparently, they had no idea a deal was coming.
I do wonder if Ferrari, Mercedes, Williams, McLaren, Red Bull et al. should simply break away.
That is precisely what absolutely infuriates this petulant child of a man.
slogan - You can't trust cheese loving surrenders monkeys.
Remember your first time?
You want someone who knows what they're doing.
Right now I think the answer is 'no one' but can you vote for us anyway please?
Local democracy is broken. I will be spoiling my ballot (for the first time ever)
But too often it does look as if we are using the law to enforce good manners. And this cannot and should not be done. There is law and there is freedom. And in the middle are good manners which consist of taboos and precedents and conventions, generally understood by all. Substituting the law for these conventions leads to unfeasible state control and tyranny. Having no such conventions leads to chaos.
I have many reasons for disliking much of the legislation such as the Religious Hatred legislation but one of them is that it is seeking to enforce that which would be better done collectively by us through social behaviour. Using the police to tell someone that they are behaving like a prat is evidence of a society which no longer has confidence in its ability to govern itself, a society which has lost - or is in danger of losing - its own internal self-regulating conscience.
Over-use of the law to regulate behaviour infantilises society - and leads to a lack of respect for the law, indeed, ultimately for the very idea of the rule of law. If you only not do something because you might be arrested rather than because you understand that it is not the right thing to do, you are behaving like a child and not like an adult with a moral compass.
In my experience Muslims have no problem with criticism, but will if there is an overlay of trolling or contempt. They are right to have a problem with the latter.
An example would be anyone who thinks that Sharia is a frozen system of values and punishments, rather than a varied and evolving tradition. There are, for example, several countries with Sharia-based legal systems where the death penalty has been withdrawn or is not used.
Anyone dismissing Sharia on the basis that it does, or in some places did, permit X Y or Z punishment which they think acceptable must also reject English Law on the basis that we used to hang, draw and quarter people.
Which is precisely why I expect there's a huge amount of pressure on the Electoral Commission behind the scenes by the powers that be to make it so.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2016/mar/03/ted-cruzs-favorite-temperature-data-just-got-a-lot-hotter
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/osborne-s-ratings-plunge-after-budget-and-corbyn-is-more-popular-than-pm-a3210916.html
David Cameron's approval rating falls below Corbyn's?
And his parents came home early from Pirates of Penzance am dram performance. I hid in the loo.
Banks and Farage need to be kidnapped and bound in a dark room for the next 3 months.
Can anybody posting here make a case for Leave.EU?
hold on to your hats: @BBCParliament is screening the 1966 election programme on Monday https://t.co/kHsz6ZCnBU
Mr Memory
Excellent news - the 1966 election night coverage has only been repeated in full on BBC Parliament once before https://t.co/oQ8XaB4qRH
Then read the negotiated text. Then look at the EU paper on banking union, as an interesting point, read the fiscal compact and the story of Dave rejecting it.
Then, make yourself a cup of tea, empty out the tea, look in the bottom of the cup and....decide!!!
There is unconfirmed talk of Jeremy Hunt to Commons Leader post referendum to help with Tory reunification - Tory source
The ISIS cell were spying on the Belgian’s nuclear power chief, possibly as part of a kidnap plan to force him to let them into an atomic facility, according to newspaper Derniere Heure.
Hours of film of the home of the Research and Development Director of the Belgian Nuclear Programme were discovered in an apartment in Brussels raided by anti-terrorist police following the attack in Paris.
Shouty labour MP "The IFS says your tax changes are unfair!!"
Chancellor "Why did you vote for them then?"
I also think you make a good point about the difference between criticism/argument and simply wanting to attack someone for what group they belong to. By the same token, it does sometimes appear that some in the Muslim community react to any criticism on a personal level and go into "victim" mode rather than deal with the criticism. Indeed, it can appear that this is sometimes done precisely in order to deflect the criticism and make those making it feel bad for even raising an issue. The conflation between the personal and the general - as exemplified by that weasel word "Islamophobia" to cover criticism of a belief system and an attack on an individual is not conducive to intelligent argument, alas.
Also he's an EU welcher.
Chin up, Farage is a tiny blip compared to the wider Leave campaign. I'd prefer him locked in the attic, but whichever campaign wins - he wouldn't shut up
Too much knowledge is hamstringing you. Most voters don't care or notice.
To help with Tory reunification xD ?!
CON 36 (-3)
LAB 34 (+1)
LIB 10 (+4)
UKIP 11 (-1)
GRN 3 (=)
Then Cameron can use Churchill's joke.
I'm not voting for Boris.
This is literally the best story ever: Microsoft's AI twitter bot turned racist after 15 hours on twitter https://t.co/5RKIchXmUW The best bit
Would certainty be a morale booster for the yellow peril.
The Yellow Peril doing very well, UKIP shelling votes.
after weighting LD 73 UKIP 100
Looks like an unwinding of the LD to Tory switchers who helped win the election for the Tories at GE.
Tories need to be careful and stay in the centre ground.
Clegg pockets £36,660 for giving speech on European referendum to Barclays Bank | Mirror https://t.co/HSUtaiY05v
An unpopular chancellor on course to be party leader/PM that we all know that will go down badly with the voters,
Labour elected him as leader via a coronation
The Tories knobbled him before he could even stand.
That said, the sheep don't benefit from their rulebook. The wolves, however, enjoy theirs rather more.