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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Today should have been a day for Jeremy Corbyn to shine and

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  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Well there is a first time for everything:

    https://twitter.com/CBSNLive/status/711999653265276928
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Big_G_NorthWales

    'The amazing issue today was that in responding to David Cameron's EU report Corbyn went into a mantra about accepting more migrants into the UK followed by Yvette Cooper, Tim Farron and the SNP. The left are simply out of touch with mainstream opinion on the migration crisis'


    Has Cooper accommodated a Syrian family in her spare home as she promised at the time of the Labour leadership election ?

  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    edited March 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Point on "disabled"...It includes things like mental health conditions, learning difficulties etc. Not just tiny Tim on his crutch.

    So all those kids with dyslexia (AKA "thick rich kids") and ADHD ("normal kids with crap parents")?
    Add the fatties on mobility scooters to that lot...
    I hardly see people on mobility scooters in London, but they were everywhere when I went to Nuneaton for a day.
    Teenage preggers capital of Britain.

    Not much else to do in Nuneaton tbh.
    Bugger! It was Lichfield, not Nuneaton.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,714
    Wanderer said:

    Danny565 said:

    Corbyn's response was pathetic as ever, but I don't really get why lefties should be in despair over that. At the end of the day, cuts have had to be abandoned by the Tories, and they're gradually being boxed into a position where further welfare cuts are impossible and they have to start actually cutting into rich pensioners' perks instead.

    And frankly, I do think Corbyn is partly responsible for that -- he has moved the overall political debate to the left and has left the government with no margin for error if any of their own side speak out against government policies. That for me is preferable to Kendall/Umunna/Reeves etc. who would probably be posturing as "tough on welfare" and giving the Tories the political space to push on with cuts.

    This has been a disastrous episode for the Government. They have effectively conceded that they won't be trying to reduce spending from now on. In which case, what is the point of them? What fiscal policies do they stand for? Is there any fiscal programme that 99% of Tory MPs can bring themselves to vote for?

    I'm not really convinced that Corbyn has helped the left cause though. Sure, he has removed the "but the other side would cut too" argument. On the other hand his Labour Party doesn't look like a credible alternative government and so is not really able to cash in on this.
    Surely the problem is that they have ringfenced so many areas they can't spread the load.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    Cameron is raking it easy on Corbyn so that Corbyn doesn't get kicked out.

    Corbyn is taking it easy on Osborne so that Osborne doesn't get kicked out.

    Farron is taking it easy on the electorate, so that they don't remember he's a Lib Dem, and kick him out.

    All three main English parties are pretty poor at the moment. Farage must be scratching his head at where it all went wrong. Sturgeon must be happy as a pig in shit.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Armando Iannucci has said that Ed Miliband's election as labour leader inspired him to make Nicola Murray leader in TTOI

    If he could be leader, anybody could be leader, right?

    Now the Labour party is looking wistfully at the glory days of Ed's masterful regime, maybe now is the time for him to make a return?

    Nicola is doing it...

    @NicolaMurrayMP: Excited to announce I've been selected by @theSNP to run for Mayor of London! Both Votes Nicola Murray #LondonMayor2016

    https://twitter.com/nicolamurraymp/status/712012035509391360
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Wanderer said:

    Danny565 said:

    Corbyn's response was pathetic as ever, but I don't really get why lefties should be in despair over that. At the end of the day, cuts have had to be abandoned by the Tories, and they're gradually being boxed into a position where further welfare cuts are impossible and they have to start actually cutting into rich pensioners' perks instead.

    And frankly, I do think Corbyn is partly responsible for that -- he has moved the overall political debate to the left and has left the government with no margin for error if any of their own side speak out against government policies. That for me is preferable to Kendall/Umunna/Reeves etc. who would probably be posturing as "tough on welfare" and giving the Tories the political space to push on with cuts.

    This has been a disastrous episode for the Government. They have effectively conceded that they won't be trying to reduce spending from now on. In which case, what is the point of them? What fiscal policies do they stand for? Is there any fiscal programme that 99% of Tory MPs can bring themselves to vote for?

    I'm not really convinced that Corbyn has helped the left cause though. Sure, he has removed the "but the other side would cut too" argument. On the other hand his Labour Party doesn't look like a credible alternative government and so is not really able to cash in on this.
    Surely the problem is that they have ringfenced so many areas they can't spread the load.
    Yes, that's what I was getting at. If welfare is now also effectively ring-fenced there is almost nothing left. The reason welfare was in the firing line was that every other major area was already protected.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited March 2016
    Wanderer said:



    I'm not really convinced that Corbyn has helped the left cause though. Sure, he has removed the "but the other side would cut too" argument. On the other hand his Labour Party doesn't look like a credible alternative government and so is not really able to cash in on this.

    I guess that depends on what you define the "left cause" as. I agree that, looking at it purely in terms of the Labour Party's prospects (their "brand", their chances of getting into government, etc.), Corbyn hasn't helped at all. If he is still the leader in 2020, Labour have a <5% chance of winning (although I still personally think the Tories are nowhere near popular enough to get a total landslide no matter how unpopular Labour are). However, at the end of the day, there are still disabled people and tax-credit claimants who are going to have their benefits saved, in part because of the stance Labour took. That for me is a better situation than Labour waving through Tory cuts but having better poll ratings as a trade-off.

    Of course, it shouldn't be the case that Labour has to choose between those two extremes: I would still enthusiastically vote for a "Soft Left" leadership option which offered some compromises on purity and a chance of winning in 2020, in addition to clear red-lines on things like opposing welfare cuts (personally I would still favour Hilary Benn: although I disagreed with him on Syria, I do think he did it because he genuinely thought it was the right thing to do, and I generally trust his instincts on other things). But after last summer's Welfare Bill fiasco, it's hardly surprising that many Labour members think that the only alternative to Corbyn would be the PLP offering no resistance to Tory policies at all and allowing them to do the damage we all hate.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,674
    Danny565 said:

    Wanderer said:



    I'm not really convinced that Corbyn has helped the left cause though. Sure, he has removed the "but the other side would cut too" argument. On the other hand his Labour Party doesn't look like a credible alternative government and so is not really able to cash in on this.

    I guess that depends on what you define the "left cause" as. I agree that, looking at it purely in terms of the Labour Party's prospects (their "brand", their chances of getting into government, etc.), Corbyn hasn't helped at all. If he is still the leader in 2020, Labour have a <5% chance of winning (although I still personally think the Tories are nowhere near popular enough to get a total landslide no matter how unpopular Labour are). However, at the end of the day, there are still disabled people and tax-credit claimants who are going to have their benefits saved, in part because of the stance Labour took. That for me is a better situation than Labour waving through Tory cuts but having better poll ratings as a trade-off.

    Of course, it shouldn't be the case that Labour has to choose between those two extremes: I would still enthusiastically vote for a "Soft Left" leadership option which offered some compromises on purity and a chance of winning in 2020, in addition to clear red-lines on things like opposing welfare cuts (personally I would still favour Hilary Benn: although I disagreed with him on Syria, I do think he did it because he genuinely thought it was the right thing to do, and I generally trust his instincts on other things). But after last summer's Welfare Bill fiasco, it's hardly surprising that many Labour members think that the only alternative to Corbyn would be the PLP offering no resistance to Tory policies at all and allowing them to do the damage we all hate.</p>
    Imagine Labour leader Liz Kendall supporting the government to get the cuts through, like Blair's academies, because it's the responsible thing to do.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @itvnews: IDS 'should have stayed in Cabinet', Boris Johnson tells @agendaitv #theagenda https://t.co/9iojk2KEQt https://t.co/KqX3qo6zoL
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    dodrade said:

    Incidentally, I do not understand why the stop Trump brigade are focussing on squeezing every delegate out of Utah, when a defeat for Trump in Arizona would be far more damaging.

    Because Trump is too far ahead to catch in Arizona.
    13 points according to the last poll.

    And Cruz is likely to outperform in Utah, as it's a midwest caucus . Motivation is key and the most motivated people will be the Mormons.

    They could literally swing Arizona, and yet they do not. Baffling.
  • alex.alex. Posts: 4,658
    Wanderer said:

    Wanderer said:

    Danny565 said:

    Corbyn's response was pathetic as ever, but I don't really get why lefties should be in despair over that. At the end of the day, cuts have had to be abandoned by the Tories, and they're gradually being boxed into a position where further welfare cuts are impossible and they have to start actually cutting into rich pensioners' perks instead.

    And frankly, I do think Corbyn is partly responsible for that -- he has moved the overall political debate to the left and has left the government with no margin for error if any of their own side speak out against government policies. That for me is preferable to Kendall/Umunna/Reeves etc. who would probably be posturing as "tough on welfare" and giving the Tories the political space to push on with cuts.

    This has been a disastrous episode for the Government. They have effectively conceded that they won't be trying to reduce spending from now on. In which case, what is the point of them? What fiscal policies do they stand for? Is there any fiscal programme that 99% of Tory MPs can bring themselves to vote for?

    I'm not really convinced that Corbyn has helped the left cause though. Sure, he has removed the "but the other side would cut too" argument. On the other hand his Labour Party doesn't look like a credible alternative government and so is not really able to cash in on this.
    Surely the problem is that they have ringfenced so many areas they can't spread the load.
    Yes, that's what I was getting at. If welfare is now also effectively ring-fenced there is almost nothing left. The reason welfare was in the firing line was that every other major area was already protected.
    Ringfencing is complete nonsense because (amongst other things) it undermines the message in areas being cut that they can make savings without damaging services. The Govt likes to boast that they have made huge cuts to local government funding at the same time as approval ratings of local government performance have been rising. And this is an area of spending that was lauded pre-austerity as the most efficient area of public spending. One is entitled to ask what wastage is going on, being ignored, and having been "protected" from the start, in ringfenced areas such as Education...
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    edited March 2016
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    They got no complaints!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @gabyhinsliff: People now telling me what a misunderstood genius Corbyn is for not mentioning the whole IDS thing: I genuinely despair.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,567
    alex. said:

    Wanderer said:

    Wanderer said:

    Danny565 said:

    Corbyn's response was pathetic as ever, but I don't really get why lefties should be in despair over that. At the end of the day, cuts have had to be abandoned by the Tories, and they're gradually being boxed into a position where further welfare cuts are impossible and they have to start actually cutting into rich pensioners' perks instead.

    And frankly, I do think Corbyn is partly responsible for that -- he has moved the overall political debate to the left and has left the government with no margin for error if any of their own side speak out against government policies. That for me is preferable to Kendall/Umunna/Reeves etc. who would probably be posturing as "tough on welfare" and giving the Tories the political space to push on with cuts.

    This has been a disastrous episode for the Government. They have effectively conceded that they won't be trying to reduce spending from now on. In which case, what is the point of them? What fiscal policies do they stand for? Is there any fiscal programme that 99% of Tory MPs can bring themselves to vote for?

    I'm not really convinced that Corbyn has helped the left cause though. Sure, he has removed the "but the other side would cut too" argument. On the other hand his Labour Party doesn't look like a credible alternative government and so is not really able to cash in on this.
    Surely the problem is that they have ringfenced so many areas they can't spread the load.
    Yes, that's what I was getting at. If welfare is now also effectively ring-fenced there is almost nothing left. The reason welfare was in the firing line was that every other major area was already protected.
    Ringfencing is complete nonsense because (amongst other things) it undermines the message in areas being cut that they can make savings without damaging services. The Govt likes to boast that they have made huge cuts to local government funding at the same time as approval ratings of local government performance have been rising. And this is an area of spending that was lauded pre-austerity as the most efficient area of public spending. One is entitled to ask what wastage is going on, being ignored, and having been "protected" from the start, in ringfenced areas such as Education...
    Welfare is not ring-fenced. The government has only said there are no cuts planned.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663

    dodrade said:

    Incidentally, I do not understand why the stop Trump brigade are focussing on squeezing every delegate out of Utah, when a defeat for Trump in Arizona would be far more damaging.

    Because Trump is too far ahead to catch in Arizona.
    13 points according to the last poll.

    And Cruz is likely to outperform in Utah, as it's a midwest caucus . Motivation is key and the most motivated people will be the Mormons.

    They could literally swing Arizona, and yet they do not. Baffling.
    Come Tuesday night we'll be hearing

    "God Bless Utah" and "I love Arizona".
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @DPJHodges: Lot of people focusing on Jeremy Corbyn's performance. Should also be pointed out John McDonnell was almost as bad.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,567
    MikeK said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT

    Omnium said:

    chestnut said:

    There are over five million recipients of non contributory disabled benefits such as Attendance Allowance, Personal Independence Payments or Disability Living Allowance.

    There are 2.5m recipients of Employment and Support Allowance. (sickness benefit)

    There are individual constituencies in the UK where the disability claimant rate is one in six working age adults, and regions or nations where it is one in ten.

    IDS should have been cutting all this crap. I quite like the man, but if he can happily preside over such widespread fraud then I've no interest in his views.
    Where is the fraud?
    5 million people aren't disabled, 2.5 million aren't sick (or at least not sufficiently that the state should be helping them).

    If there are 5 million 'disabled' then most 'disabled' people are fraudsters.
    Don't be a silly boy. According to 'ealth and Safety if you trip and twist your ankle you're disabled, at least temporarily. That statistics in the modern age, for you.
    Not relevant for PIP, where you need to have had your current level of needs for at least three months and be likely to continue having them for a further nine months.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Danny565 said:

    Wanderer said:



    I'm not really convinced that Corbyn has helped the left cause though. Sure, he has removed the "but the other side would cut too" argument. On the other hand his Labour Party doesn't look like a credible alternative government and so is not really able to cash in on this.

    I guess that depends on what you define the "left cause" as. I agree that, looking at it purely in terms of the Labour Party's prospects (their "brand", their chances of getting into government, etc.), Corbyn hasn't helped at all. If he is still the leader in 2020, Labour have a <5% chance of winning (although I still personally think the Tories are nowhere near popular enough to get a total landslide no matter how unpopular Labour are). However, at the end of the day, there are still disabled people and tax-credit claimants who are going to have their benefits saved, in part because of the stance Labour took. That for me is a better situation than Labour waving through Tory cuts but having better poll ratings as a trade-off.

    Of course, it shouldn't be the case that Labour has to choose between those two extremes: I would still enthusiastically vote for a "Soft Left" leadership option which offered some compromises on purity and a chance of winning in 2020, in addition to clear red-lines on things like opposing welfare cuts (personally I would still favour Hilary Benn: although I disagreed with him on Syria, I do think he did it because he genuinely thought it was the right thing to do, and I generally trust his instincts on other things). But after last summer's Welfare Bill fiasco, it's hardly surprising that many Labour members think that the only alternative to Corbyn would be the PLP offering no resistance to Tory policies at all and allowing them to do the damage we all hate.</p>
    I take your point but I think one should remember that if the Conservatives had another 20 MPs these cuts, and the WTC cuts, would be going ahead. Ultimately what has stopped them is the tiny majority. It wouldn't take a landslide to increase it to a comfortable working majority in 2020 (and I agree that a landslide is not that likely).

    Benn would be an outstanding leader. Unlike you I agreed with him about Syria but what really impressed me about him in that episode was that he was under huge pressure to perform and rose to it. He has the mettle of a leader. He would be a very difficult opponent for any of the Tory hopefuls.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    alex. said:

    Wanderer said:

    Wanderer said:

    Danny565 said:

    Corbyn's response was pathetic as ever, but I don't really get why lefties should be in despair over that. At the end of the day, cuts have had to be abandoned by the Tories, and they're gradually being boxed into a position where further welfare cuts are impossible and they have to start actually cutting into rich pensioners' perks instead.

    And frankly, I do think Corbyn is partly responsible for that -- he has moved the overall political debate to the left and has left the government with no margin for error if any of their own side speak out against government policies. That for me is preferable to Kendall/Umunna/Reeves etc. who would probably be posturing as "tough on welfare" and giving the Tories the political space to push on with cuts.

    This has been a disastrous episode for the Government. They have effectively conceded that they won't be trying to reduce spending from now on. In which case, what is the point of them? What fiscal policies do they stand for? Is there any fiscal programme that 99% of Tory MPs can bring themselves to vote for?

    I'm not really convinced that Corbyn has helped the left cause though. Sure, he has removed the "but the other side would cut too" argument. On the other hand his Labour Party doesn't look like a credible alternative government and so is not really able to cash in on this.
    Surely the problem is that they have ringfenced so many areas they can't spread the load.
    Yes, that's what I was getting at. If welfare is now also effectively ring-fenced there is almost nothing left. The reason welfare was in the firing line was that every other major area was already protected.
    Ringfencing is complete nonsense because (amongst other things) it undermines the message in areas being cut that they can make savings without damaging services. The Govt likes to boast that they have made huge cuts to local government funding at the same time as approval ratings of local government performance have been rising. And this is an area of spending that was lauded pre-austerity as the most efficient area of public spending. One is entitled to ask what wastage is going on, being ignored, and having been "protected" from the start, in ringfenced areas such as Education...
    Welfare is not ring-fenced. The government has only said there are no cuts planned.
    There could be spontaneous cuts, such as when they're pissed on a Friday night?
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Der Trump at AIPAC...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygKgnd8CrIQ

    "You’re not going to support me because I don’t want your money. You want to control your own politicians.”
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,567
    Wanderer said:

    alex. said:

    Wanderer said:

    Wanderer said:

    Danny565 said:

    Corbyn's response was pathetic as ever, but I don't really get why lefties should be in despair over that. At the end of the day, cuts have had to be abandoned by the Tories, and they're gradually being boxed into a position where further welfare cuts are impossible and they have to start actually cutting into rich pensioners' perks instead.

    And frankly, I do think Corbyn is partly responsible for that -- he has moved the overall political debate to the left and has left the government with no margin for error if any of their own side speak out against government policies. That for me is preferable to Kendall/Umunna/Reeves etc. who would probably be posturing as "tough on welfare" and giving the Tories the political space to push on with cuts.

    This has been a disastrous episode for the Government. They have effectively conceded that they won't be trying to reduce spending from now on. In which case, what is the point of them? What fiscal policies do they stand for? Is there any fiscal programme that 99% of Tory MPs can bring themselves to vote for?

    I'm not really convinced that Corbyn has helped the left cause though. Sure, he has removed the "but the other side would cut too" argument. On the other hand his Labour Party doesn't look like a credible alternative government and so is not really able to cash in on this.
    Surely the problem is that they have ringfenced so many areas they can't spread the load.
    Yes, that's what I was getting at. If welfare is now also effectively ring-fenced there is almost nothing left. The reason welfare was in the firing line was that every other major area was already protected.
    Ringfencing is complete nonsense because (amongst other things) it undermines the message in areas being cut that they can make savings without damaging services. The Govt likes to boast that they have made huge cuts to local government funding at the same time as approval ratings of local government performance have been rising. And this is an area of spending that was lauded pre-austerity as the most efficient area of public spending. One is entitled to ask what wastage is going on, being ignored, and having been "protected" from the start, in ringfenced areas such as Education...
    Welfare is not ring-fenced. The government has only said there are no cuts planned.
    There could be spontaneous cuts, such as when they're pissed on a Friday night?
    Well last Friday night was certainly a blinder!
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    EPG said:

    Danny565 said:

    Wanderer said:



    I'm not really convinced that Corbyn has helped the left cause though. Sure, he has removed the "but the other side would cut too" argument. On the other hand his Labour Party doesn't look like a credible alternative government and so is not really able to cash in on this.

    I guess that depends on what you define the "left cause" as. I agree that, looking at it purely in terms of the Labour Party's prospects (their "brand", their chances of getting into government, etc.), Corbyn hasn't helped at all. If he is still the leader in 2020, Labour have a <5% chance of winning (although I still personally think the Tories are nowhere near popular enough to get a total landslide no matter how unpopular Labour are). However, at the end of the day, there are still disabled people and tax-credit claimants who are going to have their benefits saved, in part because of the stance Labour took. That for me is a better situation than Labour waving through Tory cuts but having better poll ratings as a trade-off.

    Of course, it shouldn't be the case that Labour has to choose between those two extremes: I would still enthusiastically vote for a "Soft Left" leadership option which offered some compromises on purity and a chance of winning in 2020, in addition to clear red-lines on things like opposing welfare cuts (personally I would still favour Hilary Benn: although I disagreed with him on Syria, I do think he did it because he genuinely thought it was the right thing to do, and I generally trust his instincts on other things). But after last summer's Welfare Bill fiasco, it's hardly surprising that many Labour members think that the only alternative to Corbyn would be the PLP offering no resistance to Tory policies at all and allowing them to do the damage we all hate.</p>
    Imagine Labour leader Liz Kendall supporting the government to get the cuts through, like Blair's academies, because it's the responsible thing to do.
    Except Liz Kendall opposes the disability benefit cuts (though hardly unique in that!) She tweeted this before IDS resigned.

    https://twitter.com/leicesterliz/status/710908451023675393
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    MikeK said:

    This will shake the livers of Mike, TSE and Roger, and many of PB's Remain supporters:
    https://twitter.com/FT/status/711990769775726592

    Is this the worst political advice ever? Get foreign leaders to hector Britons into staying in the EU because its own leaders won't do it:

    "What is more, the Leave campaign has always argued there is a big world beyond Europe that is just waiting to embrace Britain once it leaves the EU. Nobody is better placed than the US president to gently puncture that idea. In the weeks following his visit, Downing Street should encourage other foreign leaders — from Beijing to Vatican City — to make their hostility to Brexit known.

    Many foreign leaders will hesitate to intervene in an internal British debate. Some may have been lulled into believing Brexit is highly unlikely, anyway. Like the British political elite, they need to be disabused of that comforting notion — and fast."
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    Has Twitter been broken by Corbyn's failures tonight?
  • alex. said:

    Wanderer said:

    Wanderer said:

    Danny565 said:

    Corbyn's response was pathetic as ever, but I don't really get why lefties should be in despair over that. At the end of the day, cuts have had to be abandoned by the Tories, and they're gradually being boxed into a position where further welfare cuts are impossible and they have to start actually cutting into rich pensioners' perks instead.

    And frankly, I do think Corbyn is partly responsible for that -- he has moved the overall political debate to the left and has left the government with no margin for error if any of their own side speak out against government policies. That for me is preferable to Kendall/Umunna/Reeves etc. who would probably be posturing as "tough on welfare" and giving the Tories the political space to push on with cuts.

    This has been a disastrous episode for the Government. They have effectively conceded that they won't be trying to reduce spending from now on. In which case, what is the point of them? What fiscal policies do they stand for? Is there any fiscal programme that 99% of Tory MPs can bring themselves to vote for?

    I'm not really convinced that Corbyn has helped the left cause though. Sure, he has removed the "but the other side would cut too" argument. On the other hand his Labour Party doesn't look like a credible alternative government and so is not really able to cash in on this.
    Surely the problem is that they have ringfenced so many areas they can't spread the load.
    Yes, that's what I was getting at. If welfare is now also effectively ring-fenced there is almost nothing left. The reason welfare was in the firing line was that every other major area was already protected.
    Ringfencing is complete nonsense because (amongst other things) it undermines the message in areas being cut that they can make savings without damaging services. The Govt likes to boast that they have made huge cuts to local government funding at the same time as approval ratings of local government performance have been rising. And this is an area of spending that was lauded pre-austerity as the most efficient area of public spending. One is entitled to ask what wastage is going on, being ignored, and having been "protected" from the start, in ringfenced areas such as Education...
    Welfare is not ring-fenced. The government has only said there are no cuts planned.
    How about no increases
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,567
    RodCrosby said:

    Der Trump at AIPAC...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygKgnd8CrIQ

    "You’re not going to support me because I don’t want your money. You want to control your own politicians.”

    Trump may do well against Clinton on the money in politics thing. It's clever. Although how he earned his own money will be an issue.
  • Listening to David Cameron in the HOC today he seemed very diplomatic and his tone was really good. You do wonder if he thinks that he needs to take a more measured approach to the EU. Also interesting that Boris has said IDS should not have resigned. Maybe the greater good of the party is weighing on conservative mps
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,267
    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Point on "disabled"...It includes things like mental health conditions, learning difficulties etc. Not just tiny Tim on his crutch.

    So all those kids with dyslexia (AKA "thick rich kids") and ADHD ("normal kids with crap parents")?
    Add the fatties on mobility scooters to that lot...
    Diseases of the modern diet and lifestyle - often quite unfairly blamed on the laziness and/or fecklessness of the individuals concerned.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    The government has been defeated in the House of Lords after peers voted to accept 3,000 unaccompanied child refugees into the UK from Europe.

    An amendment to the Immigration Bill to let the children come to Britain was adopted by 306 votes to 204 - a majority of 102.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35865508
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    BBC has 'shafted' its local radio stations, says sacked DJ Martin Kelner

    http://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/mar/21/bbc-local-radio-martin-kelner-radio-leeds

    I didn't realise that the BBC had let go the Guardianista's Guardianista old time Northern radio personality.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    The government has been defeated in the House of Lords after peers voted to accept 3,000 unaccompanied child refugees into the UK from Europe.

    An amendment to the Immigration Bill to let the children come to Britain was adopted by 306 votes to 204 - a majority of 102.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35865508

    None of the lefties in the Lords business to vote to impose higher immigration on the rest of us.

    Hope the Government skewers it.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115

    MikeK said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT

    Omnium said:

    chestnut said:

    There are over five million recipients of non contributory disabled benefits such as Attendance Allowance, Personal Independence Payments or Disability Living Allowance.

    There are 2.5m recipients of Employment and Support Allowance. (sickness benefit)

    There are individual constituencies in the UK where the disability claimant rate is one in six working age adults, and regions or nations where it is one in ten.

    IDS should have been cutting all this crap. I quite like the man, but if he can happily preside over such widespread fraud then I've no interest in his views.
    Where is the fraud?
    5 million people aren't disabled, 2.5 million aren't sick (or at least not sufficiently that the state should be helping them).

    If there are 5 million 'disabled' then most 'disabled' people are fraudsters.
    Don't be a silly boy. According to 'ealth and Safety if you trip and twist your ankle you're disabled, at least temporarily. That statistics in the modern age, for you.
    Not relevant for PIP, where you need to have had your current level of needs for at least three months and be likely to continue having them for a further nine months.
    My father couldn't talk and coukd barely walk with early onset Alzheimers (with Lewy Bodies) though the tests were still pretty rigorous. Two lots of specialists came to the house to verify that he wasn't faking it.

    So, from my meagre experience (a sample of one) the tests on new claimants are quite strict. I'm not sure how rigorously we check existing claimants (who may have improved and be newly fit for work )
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Point on "disabled"...It includes things like mental health conditions, learning difficulties etc. Not just tiny Tim on his crutch.

    So all those kids with dyslexia (AKA "thick rich kids") and ADHD ("normal kids with crap parents")?
    Add the fatties on mobility scooters to that lot...
    I hardly see people on mobility scooters in London, but they were everywhere when I went to Nuneaton for a day.
    Have you ever tried getting around London with a mobility scooter or wheelchair? Its really quite difficult with something as simple as a baby buggy.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    "Hours before his AIPAC address on Monday, Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump said that as president, he would require Israel to pay back the United States for the foreign aid it received..."
    read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.710051#701396048
  • SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095

    There seems to be a four year cycle:

    2008 - Osborne's 'rabbit stuck in the headlights' response to recession allows Brown to remain Labour leader.

    2012 - Osborne's 'omnishambles' Budget allows EdM to remain Labour leader.

    2016 - Osborne's 'ultrashambles' Budget allows Corbyn to remain Labour leader.

    Perhaps Osborne really is a 'master strategist' :smile:

    save for the fact in your case its almost a daily cycle of outpouring of loathing of Osborne ..
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @hugorifkind: Sudden epiphany that the election of Jeremy Corbyn by £3 affiliates was Labour's own version of Boaty McBoatface.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527

    Glad I got on Stephen Crabb at 33/1.

    Hilarious that less than 90 minutes after poo-pooing him at less than 50/1 IDS resigns and the next day Crabb takes his job, and everyone starts talking about him as a potential leader.

    On Facebook site related to his constituency there has been a lot in the last few days about Crabb being a 'Flipper' during the Expenses scandal. Also seen as lightweight with little personality.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    Surely the anti-Israel protesters should be protesting TED CRUZ and not Donald Trump, Cruz is way more pro Israel.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited March 2016
    The average price of a property in the UK has gone past £300k for the first time. Of course, this has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the population of the country has increased by about 10 million over the last 25 years. Anyone who says so is, self-evidently, a complete moron.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,567
    Fenster said:

    MikeK said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT

    Omnium said:

    chestnut said:

    There are over five million recipients of non contributory disabled benefits such as Attendance Allowance, Personal Independence Payments or Disability Living Allowance.

    There are 2.5m recipients of Employment and Support Allowance. (sickness benefit)

    There are individual constituencies in the UK where the disability claimant rate is one in six working age adults, and regions or nations where it is one in ten.

    IDS should have been cutting all this crap. I quite like the man, but if he can happily preside over such widespread fraud then I've no interest in his views.
    Where is the fraud?
    5 million people aren't disabled, 2.5 million aren't sick (or at least not sufficiently that the state should be helping them).

    If there are 5 million 'disabled' then most 'disabled' people are fraudsters.
    Don't be a silly boy. According to 'ealth and Safety if you trip and twist your ankle you're disabled, at least temporarily. That statistics in the modern age, for you.
    Not relevant for PIP, where you need to have had your current level of needs for at least three months and be likely to continue having them for a further nine months.
    My father couldn't talk and coukd barely walk with early onset Alzheimers (with Lewy Bodies) though the tests were still pretty rigorous. Two lots of specialists came to the house to verify that he wasn't faking it.

    So, from my meagre experience (a sample of one) the tests on new claimants are quite strict. I'm not sure how rigorously we check existing claimants (who may have improved and be newly fit for work )
    The checking of existing claimants, at least for ESA is an issue. There is I believe a massive backlog with some people overdue for review by years. Yet another pile of mess left by IDS for the new boy.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341

    Fenster said:

    MikeK said:

    Omnium said:

    FPT

    Omnium said:

    chestnut said:

    There are over five million recipients of non contributory disabled benefits such as Attendance Allowance, Personal Independence Payments or Disability Living Allowance.

    There are 2.5m recipients of Employment and Support Allowance. (sickness benefit)

    There are individual constituencies in the UK where the disability claimant rate is one in six working age adults, and regions or nations where it is one in ten.

    IDS should have been cutting all this crap. I quite like the man, but if he can happily preside over such widespread fraud then I've no interest in his views.
    Where is the fraud?
    5 million people aren't disabled, 2.5 million aren't sick (or at least not sufficiently that the state should be helping them).

    If there are 5 million 'disabled' then most 'disabled' people are fraudsters.
    Don't be a silly boy. According to 'ealth and Safety if you trip and twist your ankle you're disabled, at least temporarily. That statistics in the modern age, for you.
    Not relevant for PIP, where you need to have had your current level of needs for at least three months and be likely to continue having them for a further nine months.
    My father couldn't talk and coukd barely walk with early onset Alzheimers (with Lewy Bodies) though the tests were still pretty rigorous. Two lots of specialists came to the house to verify that he wasn't faking it.

    So, from my meagre experience (a sample of one) the tests on new claimants are quite strict. I'm not sure how rigorously we check existing claimants (who may have improved and be newly fit for work )
    The checking of existing claimants, at least for ESA is an issue. There is I believe a massive backlog with some people overdue for review by years. Yet another pile of mess left by IDS for the new boy.
    Rubbish.
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    AndyJS said:

    The average price of a property in the UK has gone past £300k for the first time. Of course, this has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the population of the country has increased by about 10 million over the last 25 years. Anyone who says so is, self-evidently, a complete moron.

    That's the demand side.

    The supply side is that new housing stock in the UK is not increasing anything like fast enough.

    By contrast I bought my first house in Knutsford Cheshire in 1976 for 11k pounds.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    They've opened the crypt. I swear I just saw Peter Lilley in the House of Commons. Surely he's dead
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    Roger said:

    They've opened the crypt. I swear I just saw Peter Lilley in the House of Commons. Surely he's dead

    He certainly is not!
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    Pulpstar said:

    Surely the anti-Israel protesters should be protesting TED CRUZ and not Donald Trump, Cruz is way more pro Israel.

    Jewish thought is very nuanced. Some Jews hate Israel - and those Jews who support it - as much as anyone else. "Anti-semitism" is therefore entirely inapplicable to the debate.

    But of course you knew that...
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    More genius planting of acorns by Trump. He's right of course.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,770
    According to Peston 10MPs showed up to the PLP tonight.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited March 2016
    Jonathan said:

    According to Peston 10MPs showed up to the PLP tonight.

    If they are not careful the Lib Dems meeting will start having more people at them. Unless Peston is confusing the PLP meeting with the meeting of the Labour Parliamentary footy team.
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    Jonathan said:

    According to Peston 10MPs showed up to the PLP tonight.

    Sounds absurdly low -but I'm not sure I know what I'm comparing that number to. What kind of attendance would a Monday night EdM PLP meeting have drawn?
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Is this the worst political advice ever? Get foreign leaders to hector Britons into staying in the EU because its own leaders won't do it:

    whiff of panic among the drones at the FT...?
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587
    Pong said:

    Jonathan said:

    According to Peston 10MPs showed up to the PLP tonight.

    Sounds absurdly low -but I'm not sure I know what I'm comparing that number to. What kind of attendance would a Monday night EdM PLP meeting have drawn?
    Can only speak from the Blair/Brown period, but then it was typically 10-20 for a routine PLP - lots more if the leader was speaking. But I suspect the real reason was the same reason that only a modest number of Tories came for the urgent question - they are no whipped votes now till after Easter, so people are taking a break.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited March 2016
    Christ, Nicky Morgan is really dire.

    She states "the top 20% are losing more than everyone else" at the very same time an IFS graph showing the rich are losing nothing is on the screen behind her.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    The only speech he's made so far from an autocue.

    He means it so sincerely, I guess...
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806
    justin124 said:

    Glad I got on Stephen Crabb at 33/1.

    Hilarious that less than 90 minutes after poo-pooing him at less than 50/1 IDS resigns and the next day Crabb takes his job, and everyone starts talking about him as a potential leader.

    On Facebook site related to his constituency there has been a lot in the last few days about Crabb being a 'Flipper' during the Expenses scandal. Also seen as lightweight with little personality.
    We don't need a "personality" as much as someone to fix the department.

  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited March 2016
    Danny565 said:

    Christ, Nicky Morgan is really dire.

    She states "the top 20% are losing more than everyone else" at the very same time an IFS graph showing the rich are losing nothing is on the screen behind her.

    I thought Nicky Morgan being useless was an undisputed fact?
  • perdixperdix Posts: 1,806

    There seems to be a four year cycle:

    2008 - Osborne's 'rabbit stuck in the headlights' response to recession allows Brown to remain Labour leader.

    2012 - Osborne's 'omnishambles' Budget allows EdM to remain Labour leader.

    2016 - Osborne's 'ultrashambles' Budget allows Corbyn to remain Labour leader.

    Perhaps Osborne really is a 'master strategist' :smile:

    Yebut....

    2010 Brown defeated

    2015 EdM defeated

    2020 Labour defeated



  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    AndyJS said:

    The average price of a property in the UK has gone past £300k for the first time. Of course, this has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the population of the country has increased by about 10 million over the last 25 years. Anyone who says so is, self-evidently, a complete moron.

    There will be no end to it, sadly.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,932

    There seems to be a four year cycle:

    2008 - Osborne's 'rabbit stuck in the headlights' response to recession allows Brown to remain Labour leader.

    2012 - Osborne's 'omnishambles' Budget allows EdM to remain Labour leader.

    2016 - Osborne's 'ultrashambles' Budget allows Corbyn to remain Labour leader.

    Perhaps Osborne really is a 'master strategist' :smile:

    save for the fact in your case its almost a daily cycle of outpouring of loathing of Osborne ..
    Even by the standards of the bleaters you're very low grade.

    Perhaps you'd like to give your views on how well the 'March of the Makers' is going ?

    Or the trillion pound export target ?

    Or by how many hundreds of billions Osborne will exceed his borrowing targets ?

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,504

    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Point on "disabled"...It includes things like mental health conditions, learning difficulties etc. Not just tiny Tim on his crutch.

    So all those kids with dyslexia (AKA "thick rich kids") and ADHD ("normal kids with crap parents")?
    Add the fatties on mobility scooters to that lot...
    I hardly see people on mobility scooters in London, but they were everywhere when I went to Nuneaton for a day.
    Have you ever tried getting around London with a mobility scooter or wheelchair? Its really quite difficult with something as simple as a baby buggy.
    Don't be ridiculous. I don't know about mobility scooters or wheelchairs. The latter must be very difficult. But I managed to scoot around London with 2 children under the age of 18 months in a double buggy without much difficulty. And I had no car. I was pretty fit. :)

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,943
    edited March 2016
    AndyJS said:

    The average price of a property in the UK has gone past £300k for the first time. Of course, this has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the population of the country has increased by about 10 million over the last 25 years. Anyone who says so is, self-evidently, a complete moron.

    It's equally simplistic to say that is the only (or even the dominant) cause. After all, the inflation adjusted price of housing in the UK rose between 1977 and 1983 by 40%, despite net emigration from the UK. Likewise, it fell substantially between 1989 and 1995, despite net immigration to the UK.
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    The women guest on the agenda don't no the difference between Europe and the EU.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,943
    Cyclefree said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Point on "disabled"...It includes things like mental health conditions, learning difficulties etc. Not just tiny Tim on his crutch.

    So all those kids with dyslexia (AKA "thick rich kids") and ADHD ("normal kids with crap parents")?
    Add the fatties on mobility scooters to that lot...
    I hardly see people on mobility scooters in London, but they were everywhere when I went to Nuneaton for a day.
    Have you ever tried getting around London with a mobility scooter or wheelchair? Its really quite difficult with something as simple as a baby buggy.
    Don't be ridiculous. I don't know about mobility scooters or wheelchairs. The latter must be very difficult. But I managed to scoot around London with 2 children under the age of 18 months in a double buggy without much difficulty. And I had no car. I was pretty fit. :)

    I misread that as "I managed to scoot around London with 2 children under the age of 18 in a double buggy"...
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    Mariella Frostrup shouting her kid is European on the Agenda - lol
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    Ex-professional wrestler Hulk Hogan has won a further $25m (£17m) in punitive damages from gossip site Gawker over the publication of a sex tape.

    Apparently the lawyers are in for a $50 million pay day.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,504
    rcs1000 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Charles said:

    Point on "disabled"...It includes things like mental health conditions, learning difficulties etc. Not just tiny Tim on his crutch.

    So all those kids with dyslexia (AKA "thick rich kids") and ADHD ("normal kids with crap parents")?
    Add the fatties on mobility scooters to that lot...
    I hardly see people on mobility scooters in London, but they were everywhere when I went to Nuneaton for a day.
    Have you ever tried getting around London with a mobility scooter or wheelchair? Its really quite difficult with something as simple as a baby buggy.
    Don't be ridiculous. I don't know about mobility scooters or wheelchairs. The latter must be very difficult. But I managed to scoot around London with 2 children under the age of 18 months in a double buggy without much difficulty. And I had no car. I was pretty fit. :)

    I misread that as "I managed to scoot around London with 2 children under the age of 18 in a double buggy"...
    LoL!

    Mind you, when I added a third child shortly after, that was tough.... I gave up and got a campervan at that point.

    If I parked it outside some of the posher bits of North London I could singlehandledly depress the price of houses. ("Amanda, darling: some gypsies with noisy children seem to have moved next to our drive....")

  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    Mariella Frostrup shouting her kid is European on the Agenda - lol

    Lol.

    I have yet to meet anyone in real life who claims to be European before British. But then again I am not part of the Islington dinner party set.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    I'm not writing off Ted Cruz just yet.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Shame Obama does not take the same approach as Trump:
    Speaking at the Old Post Office on Pennsylvania Avenue – currently being converted into a Trump Hotel – Mr. Trump was asked if he believed that Britain would and should leave the European Union.

    He replied: “I think that I don’t want to make a comment about the UK or anything, but I think they may leave based on everything.

    “I’m there a lot. I have a lot of investments in the UK and I will tell you that I think it may leave based on everything I’m hearing”.

    Pressed on whether he thought British people should vote to leave, he responded: “I don’t know you’d have to ask them, I just think they may leave.”

    His hands off approach to the issue is at stark contrast with U.S. President Barack Obama, who is set to give a speech urging Britons to stay in the EU next month.
    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/03/21/donald-trump-i-think-britain-may-leave-the-european-union/
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Frostrup is Norwegian of course...
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited March 2016
    Trump's percentage of delegates will increase from 48.1% to 50.2% if he wins the winner-take-all primary in Arizona tomorrow, unless I've got my figures mixed up.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited March 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    I'm not writing off Ted Cruz just yet.

    No, nor me. But Trump is a lot more likely, and I can't see it going to anyone outside those two.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,943
    MP_SE said:

    Mariella Frostrup shouting her kid is European on the Agenda - lol

    Lol.

    I have yet to meet anyone in real life who claims to be European before British. But then again I am not part of the Islington dinner party set.
    The vast majority of people I know answer "English" to questions about their nationality - as (for that matter) do I.

    I suspect that if you asked 100 people in the UK to describe themselves, you'd get lots of English, some Scottish, some Welsh, and very few British.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Pulpstar said:

    I'm not writing off Ted Cruz just yet.
    Imagine a Trump 3rd-party candidacy! I'm practically swooning at the mayhem it would cause.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited March 2016
    FBI announced they think they have JUST found a way to unlock that iPhone....

    Yeah yeah, we believe you. JUST found out....I think you mean you already knew, but it was a pain in the ass and probably required a super computer to do some fairly heavy lifting. But the court case ain't looking so hot and probably a way to spin it back on to Apple.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    MP_SE said:

    Mariella Frostrup shouting her kid is European on the Agenda - lol

    Lol.

    I have yet to meet anyone in real life who claims to be European before British. But then again I am not part of the Islington dinner party set.
    But what is Europe? Unless you can come up with a universal definition of what Europe actually is, you cannot actually accurately describe yourself as European.

    Membership of the EU - not enough. Can participate in Eurovision? No. Can compete in European sports competitions? No.

    Europe doesn't really exist - so we can't be European!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,504

    MP_SE said:

    Mariella Frostrup shouting her kid is European on the Agenda - lol

    Lol.

    I have yet to meet anyone in real life who claims to be European before British. But then again I am not part of the Islington dinner party set.
    But what is Europe? Unless you can come up with a universal definition of what Europe actually is, you cannot actually accurately describe yourself as European.

    Membership of the EU - not enough. Can participate in Eurovision? No. Can compete in European sports competitions? No.

    Europe doesn't really exist - so we can't be European!
    How about anyone living between the Atlantic and the Oder? Or the Mediterranean and the northern bit of Norway?

  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    Cyclefree said:

    MP_SE said:

    Mariella Frostrup shouting her kid is European on the Agenda - lol

    Lol.

    I have yet to meet anyone in real life who claims to be European before British. But then again I am not part of the Islington dinner party set.
    But what is Europe? Unless you can come up with a universal definition of what Europe actually is, you cannot actually accurately describe yourself as European.

    Membership of the EU - not enough. Can participate in Eurovision? No. Can compete in European sports competitions? No.

    Europe doesn't really exist - so we can't be European!
    How about anyone living between the Atlantic and the Oder? Or the Mediterranean and the northern bit of Norway?

    Some classifications put Cyprus in the Middle East... so that doesn't quite work
  • Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    MP_SE said:

    Mariella Frostrup shouting her kid is European on the Agenda - lol

    Lol.

    I have yet to meet anyone in real life who claims to be European before British. But then again I am not part of the Islington dinner party set.
    But what is Europe? Unless you can come up with a universal definition of what Europe actually is, you cannot actually accurately describe yourself as European.

    Membership of the EU - not enough. Can participate in Eurovision? No. Can compete in European sports competitions? No.

    Europe doesn't really exist - so we can't be European!
    Some EU guy (Tusk?) recently said when Schengen was first coming under pressure that without Schengen there really wasn't Europe, or EU anyway
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,943

    MP_SE said:

    Mariella Frostrup shouting her kid is European on the Agenda - lol

    Lol.

    I have yet to meet anyone in real life who claims to be European before British. But then again I am not part of the Islington dinner party set.
    But what is Europe? Unless you can come up with a universal definition of what Europe actually is, you cannot actually accurately describe yourself as European.

    Membership of the EU - not enough. Can participate in Eurovision? No. Can compete in European sports competitions? No.

    Europe doesn't really exist - so we can't be European!
    Have you read Amartya Sen's Identity and Violence?

    I think he makes a very persuasive case that we all have multiple 'identities' that overlap, and give us context. So, if I meet a guy who's Korean and has a mobile game development studio, we'll have the shared context (or identity) that is we're both technology entrepreneurs. Likewise, if I meet an English guy in a bar in Sweden, then it's being English that is the shared bond. We all have multiple things that we identify as being.

    Interestingly, one of the reasons that the early Nationalist Germans felt that Jews could never be good Germans was because they had the mixed loyalties towards Judaism and Germany.

    Anyway, you are surely right that only a very small number of people primarily identify as "European". But every year when the Ryder Cup is on, that become part of your identity, even as you may loathe the the EU.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    rcs1000 said:

    MP_SE said:

    Mariella Frostrup shouting her kid is European on the Agenda - lol

    Lol.

    I have yet to meet anyone in real life who claims to be European before British. But then again I am not part of the Islington dinner party set.
    The vast majority of people I know answer "English" to questions about their nationality - as (for that matter) do I.

    I suspect that if you asked 100 people in the UK to describe themselves, you'd get lots of English, some Scottish, some Welsh, and very few British.
    You got me there.

    I should have used British/English.

    Question I want to know is are Russians considered European?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,943
    edited March 2016
    MP_SE said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MP_SE said:

    Mariella Frostrup shouting her kid is European on the Agenda - lol

    Lol.

    I have yet to meet anyone in real life who claims to be European before British. But then again I am not part of the Islington dinner party set.
    The vast majority of people I know answer "English" to questions about their nationality - as (for that matter) do I.

    I suspect that if you asked 100 people in the UK to describe themselves, you'd get lots of English, some Scottish, some Welsh, and very few British.
    You got me there.

    I should have used British/English.

    Question I want to know is are Russians considered European?
    Yes but, far more than in the case of Britain, 'it's complicated'. Russia has spent long periods outside the European mainstream, but also sees itself as being at more than one point in history the saviour of European civilisation.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,943
    MP_SE said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MP_SE said:

    Mariella Frostrup shouting her kid is European on the Agenda - lol

    Lol.

    I have yet to meet anyone in real life who claims to be European before British. But then again I am not part of the Islington dinner party set.
    The vast majority of people I know answer "English" to questions about their nationality - as (for that matter) do I.

    I suspect that if you asked 100 people in the UK to describe themselves, you'd get lots of English, some Scottish, some Welsh, and very few British.
    You got me there.

    I should have used British/English.

    Question I want to know is are Russians considered European?
    The ones West of Moscow are Europeans. The ones East are Asian :-)
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    FBI announced they think they have JUST found a way to unlock that iPhone....

    Yeah yeah, we believe you. JUST found out....I think you mean you already knew, but it was a pain in the ass and probably required a super computer to do some fairly heavy lifting. But the court case ain't looking so hot and probably a way to spin it back on to Apple.

    Surely a brute force unlock is just not feasible, even with multiple super computers working in parallel. You cant break your way through the door, you have to knock on the window while trying to sneak someone down the chimney.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,943
    Tim_B said:

    MP_SE said:

    Mariella Frostrup shouting her kid is European on the Agenda - lol

    Lol.

    I have yet to meet anyone in real life who claims to be European before British. But then again I am not part of the Islington dinner party set.
    But what is Europe? Unless you can come up with a universal definition of what Europe actually is, you cannot actually accurately describe yourself as European.

    Membership of the EU - not enough. Can participate in Eurovision? No. Can compete in European sports competitions? No.

    Europe doesn't really exist - so we can't be European!
    Some EU guy (Tusk?) recently said when Schengen was first coming under pressure that without Schengen there really wasn't Europe, or EU anyway
    Schengen is such a side show. The truth is the European mainland patchwork - of small countries, with tiny armies, long land borders without geographical features, and thousands of border crossings - are essentially unsecurable. It's like us with the border with the Republic of Ireland during the Troubles; we couldn't secure it, despite the weight of the entire British Army, and low population density.

    Schengen is not a grand political ambition. It is a recognition of the bleedingly obvious.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,943
    notme said:

    FBI announced they think they have JUST found a way to unlock that iPhone....

    Yeah yeah, we believe you. JUST found out....I think you mean you already knew, but it was a pain in the ass and probably required a super computer to do some fairly heavy lifting. But the court case ain't looking so hot and probably a way to spin it back on to Apple.

    Surely a brute force unlock is just not feasible, even with multiple super computers working in parallel. You cant break your way through the door, you have to knock on the window while trying to sneak someone down the chimney.
    Actually, I would thought a brute force would be easy. iPhone emulators exist. Image the storage, and run 100,000 emulations in parallel.
  • ThreeQuidderThreeQuidder Posts: 6,133
    rcs1000 said:

    MP_SE said:

    Mariella Frostrup shouting her kid is European on the Agenda - lol

    Lol.

    I have yet to meet anyone in real life who claims to be European before British. But then again I am not part of the Islington dinner party set.
    But what is Europe? Unless you can come up with a universal definition of what Europe actually is, you cannot actually accurately describe yourself as European.

    Membership of the EU - not enough. Can participate in Eurovision? No. Can compete in European sports competitions? No.

    Europe doesn't really exist - so we can't be European!
    Have you read Amartya Sen's Identity and Violence?

    I think he makes a very persuasive case that we all have multiple 'identities' that overlap, and give us context. So, if I meet a guy who's Korean and has a mobile game development studio, we'll have the shared context (or identity) that is we're both technology entrepreneurs. Likewise, if I meet an English guy in a bar in Sweden, then it's being English that is the shared bond. We all have multiple things that we identify as being.

    Interestingly, one of the reasons that the early Nationalist Germans felt that Jews could never be good Germans was because they had the mixed loyalties towards Judaism and Germany.

    Anyway, you are surely right that only a very small number of people primarily identify as "European". But every year when the Ryder Cup is on, that become part of your identity, even as you may loathe the the EU.
    Interesting you use that example. That's the only three days in two years that I feel even remotely European.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,943
    notme said:
    Can you get odds on when Jack W will row back on his prediction that Trump will get crushed by Clinton? It's not happening, folks. Believe me.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited March 2016
    This poll shows Trump's troubles in the GE:

    CBS/NYT

    Trump 46 +11
    Cruz 26 +8
    Kasich 20 + 9

    So far so good, here is the problem:

    Trump fav/unf 24/57 , among republicans 49/29
    Hillary fav/unf 31/52 , among democrats 61/20

    Republican party fav/unf 28/66
    Democratic party fav/unf 46/48

    Republican party unf. with republican voters 39%
    Democratic party unf. with democratic voters 13%

    Republican voters who think their party is divided 88%.
    Democratic voters who think their party is divided 9%.

    Which of course leads to:

    Hillary 50
    Trump 40

    There is massive hate within the republican party for their own party.

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbsnyt-poll-who-do-gop-voters-blame-for-violence-at-donald-trump-rallies/

    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/donald-trump-and-hillary-clinton-viewed-unfavorably-by-majority-cbsnyt-poll/
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,943

    notme said:
    Can you get odds on when Jack W will row back on his prediction that Trump will get crushed by Clinton? It's not happening, folks. Believe me.
    I would have thought the Trump will win Democrat states in the rust belt, but will struggle in Colorado, Arizona and Florida.

    It should be an interesting contest.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited March 2016
    notme said:

    FBI announced they think they have JUST found a way to unlock that iPhone....

    Yeah yeah, we believe you. JUST found out....I think you mean you already knew, but it was a pain in the ass and probably required a super computer to do some fairly heavy lifting. But the court case ain't looking so hot and probably a way to spin it back on to Apple.

    Surely a brute force unlock is just not feasible, even with multiple super computers working in parallel. You cant break your way through the door, you have to knock on the window while trying to sneak someone down the chimney.
    You aren't thinking like a hacker ;-) ....various supposedly sound methods have been broken even when in theory they can't be via brute force.

    Remember the virus that screwed up Iran nuclear development, that installed itself on windows machines and broke a supposed one way algorithm. Between the time it was written and its discovery, by coincidence academics theorized the one way algorithm it used was vulnerable to a weird work around. Then they discovered that somebody in the US / Isreali spooks had already worked it out and fully implemented it.

    Snowdon showed that stuff like OpenVPN has also been comprised.
This discussion has been closed.