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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Why Labour has its concerns about the Tory turmoil

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  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I'll defend Osborne over the pasty tax, it made complete sense and I've no idea how he lost control of the PR stunt run by Greggs.

    Cameron should've remained neutral - he's set fire to his Party over so many issues that were stupid, short sighted and clearly aimed at tipping the scales his way. They've been undone in the main, but the bruises aren't forgotten so quickly.

    I despair at this cack handedness.
    Patrick said:

    So it turns out both Dave and George are not really very good at politics.
    Two things they could and should have put above all else in running a Tory government:
    1. Be on the same side as their party and on the right side of history with respect to the EU. They've gone mental. They've gone for the establishment, for the bureaucrat, for the rentier and against middle England. Dave could have been the country and the party's hero by coming back from the EU, saying 'I tried but they aren't interested in deep reform - so we're leaving'. He's utterly split his party and guaranteed a toxic neverendum on the issue.
    2. Kill the deficit - but spread the pain absolutely fairly. That includes the wealthy and the retired. Ozzy seems simply not to get this. He's politically autistic when it comes to pasty tax, tax credits, disability benefit etc. That makes him a somewhat competent manager but no leader. GOWNBPM.

  • On reflection, having seen IDS and the likes of Bernard Jenkin on tv yesterday, and the damage they did to John Major, now David Cameron, makes me want to go out and spend the next three months campaigning for Remain.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    edited March 2016
    Hmmm....

    I'm coming to the conclusion that Hillary Benn's intervention over Libya was a matter of high principle and that actually he does NOT want to undermine Corbyn as leader.

    The contrast with IDS/Osborne is becoming clearer by the hour.
  • Mr. Eagles, one shudders to think of what colours you'd use. Salmon pink and vivid turquoise?

    Remember when we met up for the PB meet in Ilkley, I wore a salmon an turquoise shirt.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663

    On reflection, having seen IDS and the likes of Bernard Jenkin on tv yesterday, and the damage they did to John Major, now David Cameron, makes me want to go out and spend the next three months campaigning for Remain.

    This is one of those occasions where you need to seperate the people from the issue. I can understand the sentiment though.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    OchEye said:

    Er! The biggest problem is that there is a a large number of Conservative mp's who don't like Cameron and detest Osborne. When the MP's go back to their constituencies, they get their ears filled with complaints from the constituents, local conservative party members fed up with being firewalls and lightning rods for the leadership, small and medium business leaders and owners not getting the tax breaks of the big companies and banks, journalists from the local media asking awkward questions, etc., etc.. They just want, like most people, to be popular, loved and respect, only it ain't happening.

    And their answer is Iain Duncan Smith?

    ROFLMAO :)
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469
    runnymede said:

    'Having written an 'independent' report for one of their clients, I know to take them with a pinch of salt.'

    And I have done likewise.

    As usual, these reports are a product of carefully selected assumptions and then post-analysis spin.

    So with a wave of the hands you assume various negative results and dismiss more positive scenarios. Then you produce a menu of results from which the biased client can pick those which fit their agenda best - hey presto it's money in the bank.

    Are they called, what was it now, er! Let me think... Oh Yes, a political manifesto? ROFLMAO!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited March 2016
    Scott_P said:

    That's the anti-IDS spin but surely he resigned because having agreed the savings, Osborne pissed them up the wall on handouts for his rich mates.

    Savings in the welfare bill, and tax cuts, were in the Tory manifesto at the election.

    If IDS says he wanted one without the other he is

    a. a liar
    b. an idiot
    c. both
    IDS wanted the welfare cuts, but he wanted the pain to include pensioners. His big beef with Osborne is that all the pain was on one end of society and one end of the age spectrum. So actually not a liar or an idiot as I see it - but a rare thing. A politician with principles. Osborne is ruined because he is revealed as an idiot with no principles other than self advancement. I'm with IDS on this one.

    I'd like BoJo to replace Cameron when Leave wins!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,312
    Pulpstar said:

    Hmmm....

    I'm coming to the conclusion that Hillary Benn's intervention over Libya was a matter of high principle and that actually he does NOT want to undermine Corbyn as leader.

    The contrast with IDS/Osborne is becoming clearer by the hour.

    Stop speaking your book!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Patrick said:

    a rare thing. A politician with principles.

    I'd like BoJo to replace Cameron when Leave wins!

    These two sentences are mutually exclusive...
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    If the top comments are anything to go by, Djokovic's call for male tennis players to get more than female ones is, er, universally popular:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35859791

    Mr. Eagles, my eyes bleed from the memory alone. [On a serious note, my eye is actually bleeding. A quick check suggests it's likely caused by a burst blood vessel and will remedy itself, although the emotional trauma of fashion-based visual assault causes longer term psychological scarring].
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    From what I've read, it's personal between the two. IDS was sick of Osborne treating him with contempt and Osborne thought he could do it with impunity as IDS was too stupid to notice.
    Pulpstar said:

    Hmmm....

    I'm coming to the conclusion that Hillary Benn's intervention over Libya was a matter of high principle and that actually he does NOT want to undermine Corbyn as leader.

    The contrast with IDS/Osborne is becoming clearer by the hour.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,999
    As ever, thanks for your hard work.

    Oh, and thanks for your post earlier about the Kindle. I had no idea about it, and have set mine for update.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587
    Thanks to Morris for the Kindle news. Are they insane? It's another peer group thing - they assume that most customers monitor their site for updates, and have wifi, or have a laptop and USB cable. Plenty of people are relatively new to serious surfing - they have a laptop and a Kindle but don't bother to do updates unless they're told to by the system directly.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,809
    Patrick said:

    So it turns out both Dave and George are not really very good at politics.
    Two things they could and should have put above all else in running a Tory government:
    1. Be on the same side as their party and on the right side of history with respect to the EU. They've gone mental. They've gone for the establishment, for the bureaucrat, for the rentier and against middle England. Dave could have been the country and the party's hero by coming back from the EU, saying 'I tried but they aren't interested in deep reform - so we're leaving'. He's utterly split his party and guaranteed a toxic neverendum on the issue.
    2. Kill the deficit - but spread the pain absolutely fairly. That includes the wealthy and the retired. Ozzy seems simply not to get this. He's politically autistic when it comes to pasty tax, tax credits, disability benefit etc. That makes him a somewhat competent manager but no leader. GOWNBPM.

    Quite so.
    Also Cameron/Osborne didn't understand what elephant traps they dug for themselves by "ring fencing" right-on areas of govt spending.
  • JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    Mr. Eagles, one shudders to think of what colours you'd use. Salmon pink and vivid turquoise?

    Remember when we met up for the PB meet in Ilkley, I wore a salmon an turquoise shirt.
    And Ilkley has only just recovered its equilibrium and local cases of colour blindness returned to norm.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Ah, a man of principle...

    @SamCoatesTimes: IDS authorised his resignation letter to be sent to media before finally telling PM he was going - my account of Fri https://t.co/CtJ6HV0mmq
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    On reflection, having seen IDS and the likes of Bernard Jenkin on tv yesterday, and the damage they did to John Major, now David Cameron, makes me want to go out and spend the next three months campaigning for Remain.

    The only way to settle the Tory wounds on the EU for good is to Leave.

    Otherwise, it will never end.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Hmmm....

    I'm coming to the conclusion that Hillary Benn's intervention over Libya was a matter of high principle and that actually he does NOT want to undermine Corbyn as leader.

    The contrast with IDS/Osborne is becoming clearer by the hour.

    Stop speaking your book!
    Well I have money on Corbyn staying too...
  • Scott_P said:

    Patrick said:

    a rare thing. A politician with principles.

    I'd like BoJo to replace Cameron when Leave wins!

    These two sentences are mutually exclusive...
    Well then you 'misunderestimate' BoJo. His principles on the EU and on 'one nation' (the two utterly key issues) are crystal clear.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    The only way to settle the Tory wounds on the EU for good is to Leave.

    An alternative would be for the lunatic fringe to FO and join UKIP
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    From what I've read, it's personal between the two. IDS was sick of Osborne treating him with contempt and Osborne thought he could do it with impunity as IDS was too stupid to notice.

    Pulpstar said:

    Hmmm....

    I'm coming to the conclusion that Hillary Benn's intervention over Libya was a matter of high principle and that actually he does NOT want to undermine Corbyn as leader.

    The contrast with IDS/Osborne is becoming clearer by the hour.

    That's it.

    I've been shocked at how exceptionally rude and unpleasant fellow Tories have been to IDS, mocking him and calling him an idiot, a traitor, and a liar.

    Quite apart from being untrue, is that in any way helpful?
  • Pulpstar said:

    On reflection, having seen IDS and the likes of Bernard Jenkin on tv yesterday, and the damage they did to John Major, now David Cameron, makes me want to go out and spend the next three months campaigning for Remain.

    This is one of those occasions where you need to seperate the people from the issue. I can understand the sentiment though.
    Last night's piece nearly contained this gem

    'When their political careers are over, IDS will be responsible for more Labour general election victories than Corbyn'
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Mr. Jessop, np. I'm just glad the race was pretty good, given how qualifying (and much of last year) was.

    Mr. Palmer, it baffles me. I'm a long-term Amazon customer and I publish (both self- and, soon, via a press) through their site, and I use my Kindle for redrafting [easier on the eyes, and saves a fortune in ink and paper] and I had no idea until this morning.

    The update will be something you can download via a USB cable if you miss the deadline, but people will still be irked.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Patrick said:

    Well then you 'misunderestimate' BoJo. His principles on the EU and on 'one nation' (the two utterly key issues) are crystal clear.

    The clear principle being "will this help me become PM'...
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    An alternative would be for the lunatic fringe to FO and join UKIP

    So that's half of the MPs and more than half of the voters? Good luck with that.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    runnymede said:

    An alternative would be for the lunatic fringe to FO and join UKIP

    So that's half of the MPs and more than half of the voters? Good luck with that.

    No, not every Brexiteer is a lunatic :)
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    Scott_P said:

    The only way to settle the Tory wounds on the EU for good is to Leave.

    An alternative would be for the lunatic fringe to FO and join UKIP
    I refer you to Robert's post at 9:08am.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,587
    Pulpstar said:

    Hmmm....

    I'm coming to the conclusion that Hillary Benn's intervention over Libya was a matter of high principle and that actually he does NOT want to undermine Corbyn as leader.

    The contrast with IDS/Osborne is becoming clearer by the hour.

    Yes, agreed - I know him reasonably well, and he just isn't into either clever maneouvres or saying something he doesn't believe in. It's why he and Corbyn get on personally despite the very obvious differences - a bit like Richard Tyndall and me here, we acknowledge that the other is sincere and pleasant, despite very clear differences in outcome.

    To give an untopical example - when he was deciding about the badger cull, he told me (and two other friendly MPs who he knew had specialised in the issue) that he was as a vegetarian instinctively against ordering the slaughter of badgers, but he couldn't take an irrational decision and his civil servants were taking an ambiguous position. What exactly was the scientific case? He didn't ask our view on what would be popular, or acceptable to the party - he just wanted to get it right.

    Of course, low political cunning is a useful attribute in a leading politician, and they are both short of it. But we've perhaps had an overdose of that lately.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    Pulpstar said:

    On reflection, having seen IDS and the likes of Bernard Jenkin on tv yesterday, and the damage they did to John Major, now David Cameron, makes me want to go out and spend the next three months campaigning for Remain.

    This is one of those occasions where you need to seperate the people from the issue. I can understand the sentiment though.
    Last night's piece nearly contained this gem

    'When their political careers are over, IDS will be responsible for more Labour general election victories than Corbyn'
    Stop it.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    What time was the IDS letter released? It was delayed by two hours to accommodate the PM's request IIRC.
    Scott_P said:

    Ah, a man of principle...

    @SamCoatesTimes: IDS authorised his resignation letter to be sent to media before finally telling PM he was going - my account of Fri https://t.co/CtJ6HV0mmq

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    edited March 2016

    Pulpstar said:

    On reflection, having seen IDS and the likes of Bernard Jenkin on tv yesterday, and the damage they did to John Major, now David Cameron, makes me want to go out and spend the next three months campaigning for Remain.

    This is one of those occasions where you need to seperate the people from the issue. I can understand the sentiment though.
    Last night's piece nearly contained this gem

    'When their political careers are over, IDS will be responsible for more Labour general election victories than Corbyn'
    Osborne has of course brought alot of this on himself by overtly making crap budgets and then U-turning on stuff like tax credits, PIP. The U-turns are more damaging I reckon than the original screw ups.
  • On reflection, having seen IDS and the likes of Bernard Jenkin on tv yesterday, and the damage they did to John Major, now David Cameron, makes me want to go out and spend the next three months campaigning for Remain.

    You seem to have already spent the last three months campaigning for Remain
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Me too. I don't want this at all. I rarely challenge fellow Tories unless I feel they're being quite unfair.

    The mania of some who've allowed their EU position to infect their views of fellow Tories is most depressing.

    From what I've read, it's personal between the two. IDS was sick of Osborne treating him with contempt and Osborne thought he could do it with impunity as IDS was too stupid to notice.

    Pulpstar said:

    Hmmm....

    I'm coming to the conclusion that Hillary Benn's intervention over Libya was a matter of high principle and that actually he does NOT want to undermine Corbyn as leader.

    The contrast with IDS/Osborne is becoming clearer by the hour.

    That's it.

    I've been shocked at how exceptionally rude and unpleasant fellow Tories have been to IDS, mocking him and calling him an idiot, a traitor, and a liar.

    Quite apart from being untrue, is that in any way helpful?
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    You seem to have already spent the last three months campaigning for Remain

    Along with the rest of the editorial team...
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    From what I've read, it's personal between the two. IDS was sick of Osborne treating him with contempt and Osborne thought he could do it with impunity as IDS was too stupid to notice.

    Pulpstar said:

    Hmmm....

    I'm coming to the conclusion that Hillary Benn's intervention over Libya was a matter of high principle and that actually he does NOT want to undermine Corbyn as leader.

    The contrast with IDS/Osborne is becoming clearer by the hour.

    That's it.

    I've been shocked at how exceptionally rude and unpleasant fellow Tories have been to IDS, mocking him and calling him an idiot, a traitor, and a liar.

    Quite apart from being untrue, is that in any way helpful?
    It is true and helpful.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663

    Pulpstar said:

    Hmmm....

    I'm coming to the conclusion that Hillary Benn's intervention over Libya was a matter of high principle and that actually he does NOT want to undermine Corbyn as leader.

    The contrast with IDS/Osborne is becoming clearer by the hour.

    Yes, agreed - I know him reasonably well, and he just isn't into either clever maneouvres or saying something he doesn't believe in. It's why he and Corbyn get on personally despite the very obvious differences - a bit like Richard Tyndall and me here, we acknowledge that the other is sincere and pleasant, despite very clear differences in outcome.

    To give an untopical example - when he was deciding about the badger cull, he told me (and two other friendly MPs who he knew had specialised in the issue) that he was as a vegetarian instinctively against ordering the slaughter of badgers, but he couldn't take an irrational decision and his civil servants were taking an ambiguous position. What exactly was the scientific case? He didn't ask our view on what would be popular, or acceptable to the party - he just wanted to get it right.

    Of course, low political cunning is a useful attribute in a leading politician, and they are both short of it. But we've perhaps had an overdose of that lately.
    What conclusion did he reach on the badger cull ?

    I think unless you're going to slaughter every single last badger in England and Wales it's probably ineffective.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Pulpstar said:

    Osborne has of course brought alot of this on himself by overtly making crap budgets and then U-turning on stuff like tax credits, PIP. The U-turns are more damaging I reckon than the original screw ups.

    Not really.

    Gordo was lauded as a chancellor because in every budget he was able to announce massive give-aways to the client state which were very popular with Labour voters and MPs

    In every budget, Osborne has had to announce cuts, which turn out to be unpopular with voters, and Tory MPs who have panicked at the first whiff of gunsmoke and run screaming to the TV channels
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    The mania of some who've allowed their EU position to infect their views of fellow Tories is most depressing.

    Like IDS, for example...
  • Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    On reflection, having seen IDS and the likes of Bernard Jenkin on tv yesterday, and the damage they did to John Major, now David Cameron, makes me want to go out and spend the next three months campaigning for Remain.

    This is one of those occasions where you need to seperate the people from the issue. I can understand the sentiment though.
    Last night's piece nearly contained this gem

    'When their political careers are over, IDS will be responsible for more Labour general election victories than Corbyn'
    Osborne has of course brought alot of this on himself by overtly making crap budgets and then U-turning on stuff like tax credits, PIP. The U-turns are more damaging I reckon than the original screw ups.
    I was sent a text yesterday reminding me that IDS campaigned during the last election promising to

    1) Have £12 billion of welfare cuts
    2) Give the middle class tax cuts
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,312
    I'd be interested to know what Esther McVey thinks of the IDS situation. I've googled her and it she doesn't seem to have said anything on it.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    I was sent a text yesterday reminding me that IDS campaigned during the last election promising to

    1) Have £12 billion of welfare cuts
    2) Give the middle class tax cuts

    Sshhh. That doesn't fit the IDS lionization narrative...
  • On reflection, having seen IDS and the likes of Bernard Jenkin on tv yesterday, and the damage they did to John Major, now David Cameron, makes me want to go out and spend the next three months campaigning for Remain.

    You seem to have already spent the last three months campaigning for Remain
    Really?

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/02/21/meet-the-man-who-could-win-the-referendum-for-leave/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/12/20/immigration-might-be-the-most-important-issue-facing-the-country-but-it-isnt-the-only-issue/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/03/13/how-a-labour-coup-against-corbyn-in-may-could-win-the-eu-referendum-for-leave/

    I could dig out more, but you get the drift.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    surbiton said:

    From what I've read, it's personal between the two. IDS was sick of Osborne treating him with contempt and Osborne thought he could do it with impunity as IDS was too stupid to notice.

    Pulpstar said:

    Hmmm....

    I'm coming to the conclusion that Hillary Benn's intervention over Libya was a matter of high principle and that actually he does NOT want to undermine Corbyn as leader.

    The contrast with IDS/Osborne is becoming clearer by the hour.

    That's it.

    I've been shocked at how exceptionally rude and unpleasant fellow Tories have been to IDS, mocking him and calling him an idiot, a traitor, and a liar.

    Quite apart from being untrue, is that in any way helpful?
    It is true and helpful.
    You are also one of the culprits.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    What are you attempting to achieve here? More division?

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    On reflection, having seen IDS and the likes of Bernard Jenkin on tv yesterday, and the damage they did to John Major, now David Cameron, makes me want to go out and spend the next three months campaigning for Remain.

    This is one of those occasions where you need to seperate the people from the issue. I can understand the sentiment though.
    Last night's piece nearly contained this gem

    'When their political careers are over, IDS will be responsible for more Labour general election victories than Corbyn'
    Osborne has of course brought alot of this on himself by overtly making crap budgets and then U-turning on stuff like tax credits, PIP. The U-turns are more damaging I reckon than the original screw ups.
    I was sent a text yesterday reminding me that IDS campaigned during the last election promising to

    1) Have £12 billion of welfare cuts
    2) Give the middle class tax cuts
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Pulpstar said:

    Mike Smithson ‏@MSmithsonPB 2m2 minutes ago

    Apparetly IDS used to address Tony Blair as "Sir" during briefings on the Iraq war when he was CON leader

    Yes Sir
    No Sir
    Three bags full Sir

    He was an Army major. He knew his position.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    Anecdotal:

    My better half's mum, a Labour and occasional green thought that

    a) Hillary Benn would be the best Labour leader
    b) The Doctor's dispute was entirely about pay and had FA to do with patient safety. No view was given on Hunt (She was a Doctor who had to retire through ill health just before Labour gave them all mahoosive pay rises)
  • Scott_P said:

    Indigo said:

    I am not even sure there is any evidence that he was being a "bloody nuisance" at the moment, except in as far as he attempted to deliver what he has always said he was going to deliver, got stiffed by the treasury and then tried to stop Camborne's attempt to pull the wool over the voters eyes. Had they funded his efforts at DWP properly, and let him get on with his job I rather doubt anyone would have heard a peep from him.

    An alternative explanation is he was really crap at the job.

    I guess if the rumoured DWP papers are released we may find out.
    The same people who praised him to the heights for his work (and he's devoted himself to the subject) are - after his resignation (and who wouldn't have resigned given the shoddy cut-Wednesday-pullback-Thursday operation which would have left him looking as if he favoured the cuts - now, suddenly, attacking his motives and competence. Sorry, the alternative explanation won't wash and Cameron/Osborne are in trouble ....
  • What are you attempting to achieve here? More division?

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    On reflection, having seen IDS and the likes of Bernard Jenkin on tv yesterday, and the damage they did to John Major, now David Cameron, makes me want to go out and spend the next three months campaigning for Remain.

    This is one of those occasions where you need to seperate the people from the issue. I can understand the sentiment though.
    Last night's piece nearly contained this gem

    'When their political careers are over, IDS will be responsible for more Labour general election victories than Corbyn'
    Osborne has of course brought alot of this on himself by overtly making crap budgets and then U-turning on stuff like tax credits, PIP. The U-turns are more damaging I reckon than the original screw ups.
    I was sent a text yesterday reminding me that IDS campaigned during the last election promising to

    1) Have £12 billion of welfare cuts
    2) Give the middle class tax cuts
    I'm trying to stop the canonisation of IDS.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,999

    Thanks to Morris for the Kindle news. Are they insane? It's another peer group thing - they assume that most customers monitor their site for updates, and have wifi, or have a laptop and USB cable. Plenty of people are relatively new to serious surfing - they have a laptop and a Kindle but don't bother to do updates unless they're told to by the system directly.

    Firmware updates for CE devices are difficult, and if they go wrong they can either fail to allow any updates or brick the box. I've designed a couple of on-air update systems, and the main thing is: "DO NOT BRICK THE BOX."

    Fortunately, many OSs have decent bootloaders and update systems out of the box nowadays.

    As an example, my newish Humas STB has an update system that does not allow itself to be updated from either on-air or USB. For a couple of weeks we got annoying message as it tried, and failed, to update itself.

    A large company I worked for (although not my department) had a massive update problem with set-top boxes about fifteen years ago that bricked tens of thousands of units: i.e. they were unusable. The on-air image sent to the boxes was corrupted.

    The solution: send vans round the country. Take a bricked unit from a customer and give them a fixed unit. Meanwhile, reflash the OS and give the next customer that box.

    I don't know if it's still the case, but in those days you did not own your set-top box if it came directly from the provider. They therefore could get away with not giving you back 'your' unit. That might be harder in these days of PVR and recorders.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Well quite.

    Scott_P said:

    Indigo said:

    I am not even sure there is any evidence that he was being a "bloody nuisance" at the moment, except in as far as he attempted to deliver what he has always said he was going to deliver, got stiffed by the treasury and then tried to stop Camborne's attempt to pull the wool over the voters eyes. Had they funded his efforts at DWP properly, and let him get on with his job I rather doubt anyone would have heard a peep from him.

    An alternative explanation is he was really crap at the job.

    I guess if the rumoured DWP papers are released we may find out.
    The same people who praised him to the heights for his work (and he's devoted himself to the subject) are - after his resignation (and who wouldn't have resigned given the shoddy cut-Wednesday-pullback-Thursday operation which would have left him looking as if he favoured the cuts - now, suddenly, attacking his motives and competence. Sorry, the alternative explanation won't wash and Cameron/Osborne are in trouble ....
  • On reflection, having seen IDS and the likes of Bernard Jenkin on tv yesterday, and the damage they did to John Major, now David Cameron, makes me want to go out and spend the next three months campaigning for Remain.

    You seem to have already spent the last three months campaigning for Remain
    Really?

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/02/21/meet-the-man-who-could-win-the-referendum-for-leave/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/12/20/immigration-might-be-the-most-important-issue-facing-the-country-but-it-isnt-the-only-issue/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/03/13/how-a-labour-coup-against-corbyn-in-may-could-win-the-eu-referendum-for-leave/

    I could dig out more, but you get the drift.
    Lost in all the dozens of pro-REMAIN posts. But none of these articles was IN FAVOUR of LEAVE. You just pointed out how it might win.

    But you were right about Osborne's budget!
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    What are you attempting to achieve here? More division?

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    On reflection, having seen IDS and the likes of Bernard Jenkin on tv yesterday, and the damage they did to John Major, now David Cameron, makes me want to go out and spend the next three months campaigning for Remain.

    This is one of those occasions where you need to seperate the people from the issue. I can understand the sentiment though.
    Last night's piece nearly contained this gem

    'When their political careers are over, IDS will be responsible for more Labour general election victories than Corbyn'
    Osborne has of course brought alot of this on himself by overtly making crap budgets and then U-turning on stuff like tax credits, PIP. The U-turns are more damaging I reckon than the original screw ups.
    I was sent a text yesterday reminding me that IDS campaigned during the last election promising to

    1) Have £12 billion of welfare cuts
    2) Give the middle class tax cuts
    IDS apparently was also against the Welfare cap. Did he get mixed up with the Tory and Labour manifestos ?
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    Thanks to Morris for the Kindle news. Are they insane? It's another peer group thing - they assume that most customers monitor their site for updates, and have wifi, or have a laptop and USB cable. Plenty of people are relatively new to serious surfing - they have a laptop and a Kindle but don't bother to do updates unless they're told to by the system directly.

    Firmware updates for CE devices are difficult, and if they go wrong they can either fail to allow any updates or brick the box. I've designed a couple of on-air update systems, and the main thing is: "DO NOT BRICK THE BOX."

    Fortunately, many OSs have decent bootloaders and update systems out of the box nowadays.

    As an example, my newish Humas STB has an update system that does not allow itself to be updated from either on-air or USB. For a couple of weeks we got annoying message as it tried, and failed, to update itself.

    A large company I worked for (although not my department) had a massive update problem with set-top boxes about fifteen years ago that bricked tens of thousands of units: i.e. they were unusable. The on-air image sent to the boxes was corrupted.

    The solution: send vans round the country. Take a bricked unit from a customer and give them a fixed unit. Meanwhile, reflash the OS and give the next customer that box.

    I don't know if it's still the case, but in those days you did not own your set-top box if it came directly from the provider. They therefore could get away with not giving you back 'your' unit. That might be harder in these days of PVR and recorders.
    People who miss the update will be able to manually update so it won't be bricked. Might just be a bit less intuitive though
  • What are you attempting to achieve here? More division?

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    On reflection, having seen IDS and the likes of Bernard Jenkin on tv yesterday, and the damage they did to John Major, now David Cameron, makes me want to go out and spend the next three months campaigning for Remain.

    This is one of those occasions where you need to seperate the people from the issue. I can understand the sentiment though.
    Last night's piece nearly contained this gem

    'When their political careers are over, IDS will be responsible for more Labour general election victories than Corbyn'
    Osborne has of course brought alot of this on himself by overtly making crap budgets and then U-turning on stuff like tax credits, PIP. The U-turns are more damaging I reckon than the original screw ups.
    I was sent a text yesterday reminding me that IDS campaigned during the last election promising to

    1) Have £12 billion of welfare cuts
    2) Give the middle class tax cuts
    I'm trying to stop the canonisation of IDS.
    You do seem to be desperately fighting Osborne's corner. Have you skin in the game?
  • scotslassscotslass Posts: 912
    DecrepitJohnL

    Scott_P spins because that is what they do against Labour, the SNP and now the late departed IDS. Scot P's name is legion because he is many.

    As Soviet apparatchiks Scot P would have removed IDS from the photos, as corporate men taken away his car parking space, as civil servants removed his waste paper basket. 15,682 Scot P posts is an impressive figure almost too much for any one man to bear!
  • What are you attempting to achieve here? More division?

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    On reflection, having seen IDS and the likes of Bernard Jenkin on tv yesterday, and the damage they did to John Major, now David Cameron, makes me want to go out and spend the next three months campaigning for Remain.

    This is one of those occasions where you need to seperate the people from the issue. I can understand the sentiment though.
    Last night's piece nearly contained this gem

    'When their political careers are over, IDS will be responsible for more Labour general election victories than Corbyn'
    Osborne has of course brought alot of this on himself by overtly making crap budgets and then U-turning on stuff like tax credits, PIP. The U-turns are more damaging I reckon than the original screw ups.
    I was sent a text yesterday reminding me that IDS campaigned during the last election promising to

    1) Have £12 billion of welfare cuts
    2) Give the middle class tax cuts
    I'm trying to stop the canonisation of IDS.
    You do seem to be desperately fighting Osborne's corner. Have you skin in the game?
    Two out of yesterday's three threads were anti Osborne.

    Don't you get tired of being wrong?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I'm still looking forward to the positive and aspirational Remain case.

    No one seems willing so far to pen one. It's all biblical proportion disaster if we Leave.

    That strikes me as really odd.

    On reflection, having seen IDS and the likes of Bernard Jenkin on tv yesterday, and the damage they did to John Major, now David Cameron, makes me want to go out and spend the next three months campaigning for Remain.

    You seem to have already spent the last three months campaigning for Remain
    Really?

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/02/21/meet-the-man-who-could-win-the-referendum-for-leave/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/12/20/immigration-might-be-the-most-important-issue-facing-the-country-but-it-isnt-the-only-issue/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/03/13/how-a-labour-coup-against-corbyn-in-may-could-win-the-eu-referendum-for-leave/

    I could dig out more, but you get the drift.
    Lost in all the dozens of pro-REMAIN posts. But none of these articles was IN FAVOUR of LEAVE. You just pointed out how it might win.

    But you were right about Osborne's budget!
  • TheScreamingEagles, key is that the polls are moving in Zac's favour. With the change in voter registration, have the polls adjusted for fewer registered young and BME voters in London?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663

    I'm still looking forward to the positive and aspirational Remain case.

    No one seems willing so far to pen one. It's all biblical proportion disaster if we Leave.

    That strikes me as really odd.

    On reflection, having seen IDS and the likes of Bernard Jenkin on tv yesterday, and the damage they did to John Major, now David Cameron, makes me want to go out and spend the next three months campaigning for Remain.

    You seem to have already spent the last three months campaigning for Remain
    Really?

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/02/21/meet-the-man-who-could-win-the-referendum-for-leave/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/12/20/immigration-might-be-the-most-important-issue-facing-the-country-but-it-isnt-the-only-issue/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/03/13/how-a-labour-coup-against-corbyn-in-may-could-win-the-eu-referendum-for-leave/

    I could dig out more, but you get the drift.
    Lost in all the dozens of pro-REMAIN posts. But none of these articles was IN FAVOUR of LEAVE. You just pointed out how it might win.

    But you were right about Osborne's budget!
    Hasn't Richard Nabavi done one ?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Old Holborn
    From the Macedonian Border

    "Greece is nice but they won't build us houses and give us money like in Germany"
    https://t.co/1i5O5OUTL5 video
  • I'm still looking forward to the positive and aspirational Remain case.
    No one seems willing so far to pen one. It's all biblical proportion disaster if we Leave.
    That strikes me as really odd.

    On reflection, having seen IDS and the likes of Bernard Jenkin on tv yesterday, and the damage they did to John Major, now David Cameron, makes me want to go out and spend the next three months campaigning for Remain.

    You seem to have already spent the last three months campaigning for Remain
    Really?

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/02/21/meet-the-man-who-could-win-the-referendum-for-leave/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/12/20/immigration-might-be-the-most-important-issue-facing-the-country-but-it-isnt-the-only-issue/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/03/13/how-a-labour-coup-against-corbyn-in-may-could-win-the-eu-referendum-for-leave/

    I could dig out more, but you get the drift.
    Lost in all the dozens of pro-REMAIN posts. But none of these articles was IN FAVOUR of LEAVE. You just pointed out how it might win.

    But you were right about Osborne's budget!
    You are right. No sunny uplands. No wonderful future for the european project.
    I woke this morning to the CBI on R4 with their version of the End of Days. Problem is that I remember the CBI saying the same when they wanted us to join the Euro and we can see the states that have come close to their own End of Days with the Euro.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    F1: just reminded myself of Bahrain. As I suspected, the track's more about straight line speed than Australia. That'll probably harm Red Bull/Renault and help (in particular) Williams. I was a little surprised how well they did (bit anonymous given the podium fights and Grosjean getting a lot of the limelight, but Massa was comfortable in 5th and Bottas rose from 16th [he had a grid penalty] to 8th).

    A podium place is probably out of reach (despite the red flag, Massa was a minute behind Rosberg), but they could score pretty heavily.

    Haas will be interesting to watch.
  • OchEyeOchEye Posts: 1,469

    Thanks to Morris for the Kindle news. Are they insane? It's another peer group thing - they assume that most customers monitor their site for updates, and have wifi, or have a laptop and USB cable. Plenty of people are relatively new to serious surfing - they have a laptop and a Kindle but don't bother to do updates unless they're told to by the system directly.

    Sorry Nick, warnings were sent at least a month ago to the email address registered to the particular Kindle. I know because I found one mostly, I will admit by accident, then had to search for my kindle, recharge it, login and download the update. (I couldn't remember how to turn it on, until I found the helpful hint on the screen).

    I suspect most of the emails went to defunct addresses, straight to the spam folder or were just quickly deleted with out reading. From my own experience, I think most Kindles these days, reside at the back of cupboards or drawers, or the sides of sofas and armchairs

    Interesting thought that someone should research how quickly modern tools go out of use due to new equipment, in this case, tablets, come on the market
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Mr. Eye, it may have been lurking in an e-mail that had a misleadingly dull title. I do get such e-mails about the Kindle but only read them if they appear relevant (and an urgent update is the sort of thing that ought to be in the title).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    OchEye said:

    Thanks to Morris for the Kindle news. Are they insane? It's another peer group thing - they assume that most customers monitor their site for updates, and have wifi, or have a laptop and USB cable. Plenty of people are relatively new to serious surfing - they have a laptop and a Kindle but don't bother to do updates unless they're told to by the system directly.

    Sorry Nick, warnings were sent at least a month ago to the email address registered to the particular Kindle. I know because I found one mostly, I will admit by accident, then had to search for my kindle, recharge it, login and download the update. (I couldn't remember how to turn it on, until I found the helpful hint on the screen).

    I suspect most of the emails went to defunct addresses, straight to the spam folder or were just quickly deleted with out reading. From my own experience, I think most Kindles these days, reside at the back of cupboards or drawers, or the sides of sofas and armchairs

    Interesting thought that someone should research how quickly modern tools go out of use due to new equipment, in this case, tablets, come on the market
    I thought that too and heard reports e-book sales were well down, but apparently not true...

    http://fortune.com/2015/09/24/ebook-sales/
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Lol, apparently not.
    Pulpstar said:

    I'm still looking forward to the positive and aspirational Remain case.

    No one seems willing so far to pen one. It's all biblical proportion disaster if we Leave.

    That strikes me as really odd.

    On reflection, having seen IDS and the likes of Bernard Jenkin on tv yesterday, and the damage they did to John Major, now David Cameron, makes me want to go out and spend the next three months campaigning for Remain.

    You seem to have already spent the last three months campaigning for Remain
    Really?

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/02/21/meet-the-man-who-could-win-the-referendum-for-leave/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/12/20/immigration-might-be-the-most-important-issue-facing-the-country-but-it-isnt-the-only-issue/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/03/13/how-a-labour-coup-against-corbyn-in-may-could-win-the-eu-referendum-for-leave/

    I could dig out more, but you get the drift.
    Lost in all the dozens of pro-REMAIN posts. But none of these articles was IN FAVOUR of LEAVE. You just pointed out how it might win.

    But you were right about Osborne's budget!
    Hasn't Richard Nabavi done one ?
  • Re: Plato's point about the lack of a positive message from REMAIN. My memories of the 1975 referendum campaign is that the YES (REMAIN) side did have a positive message. Some of the roles seem to have reversed this time.

    "Tony Benn controversially claimed "Half a million jobs lost in Britain and a huge increase in food prices as a direct result of our entry into the Common market",[12] using his position as Industry Minister as an authority. His claims were ridiculed by the "Yes" campaign and ministers; the Daily Mirror labelled Benn the "Minister of Fear" and other newspapers were similarly derisive.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,567
    Bit worried about Larry the cat in this cartoon. As the only person or animal in Downing Street with a clue, I do hope he is ok.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Indigo said:

    IDS's resignation letter was the most aggressive by a Cabinet minister in living memory. Any attempt to portray him as a lamb in all this is laughable.

    No one is suggesting he is a lamb, they are suggesting he is someone that could have been left alone to play with his toys in DWP with very little problem, but Osborne being an arrogant tosser who plainly didn't like him couldn't resist pushing a bit harder and then looks all surprised when it blows up in his face.
    Osborne has a budget to balance.
    If he gave less money away to rich pensioners and other client groups that wouldn't be a problem.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Underneath his challenge, of course, lies something deeper. For Mr Duncan Smith nothing is more important than Europe. Playing a leading role in splitting the party when John Major was prime minister was, after all, how he first made his name. Having decided that he would not stay after the referendum, why not resign now? He will figure that it might help the cause, and indeed it might.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4717910.ece?shareToken=caebf505709e8b0204b2944026600b87
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @michaelsavage: Economist Intelligence Unit: 'Potential beneficiary will be home sec Theresa May; we believe she is now strongest placed to succeed Cameron'
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Like :+1:

    I'm still looking forward to the positive and aspirational Remain case.
    No one seems willing so far to pen one. It's all biblical proportion disaster if we Leave.
    That strikes me as really odd.

    On reflection, having seen IDS and the likes of Bernard Jenkin on tv yesterday, and the damage they did to John Major, now David Cameron, makes me want to go out and spend the next three months campaigning for Remain.

    You seem to have already spent the last three months campaigning for Remain
    Really?

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/02/21/meet-the-man-who-could-win-the-referendum-for-leave/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2015/12/20/immigration-might-be-the-most-important-issue-facing-the-country-but-it-isnt-the-only-issue/

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/03/13/how-a-labour-coup-against-corbyn-in-may-could-win-the-eu-referendum-for-leave/

    I could dig out more, but you get the drift.
    Lost in all the dozens of pro-REMAIN posts. But none of these articles was IN FAVOUR of LEAVE. You just pointed out how it might win.

    But you were right about Osborne's budget!
    You are right. No sunny uplands. No wonderful future for the european project.
    I woke this morning to the CBI on R4 with their version of the End of Days. Problem is that I remember the CBI saying the same when they wanted us to join the Euro and we can see the states that have come close to their own End of Days with the Euro.
  • What are you attempting to achieve here? More division?

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    On reflection, having seen IDS and the likes of Bernard Jenkin on tv yesterday, and the damage they did to John Major, now David Cameron, makes me want to go out and spend the next three months campaigning for Remain.

    This is one of those occasions where you need to seperate the people from the issue. I can understand the sentiment though.
    Last night's piece nearly contained this gem

    'When their political careers are over, IDS will be responsible for more Labour general election victories than Corbyn'
    Osborne has of course brought alot of this on himself by overtly making crap budgets and then U-turning on stuff like tax credits, PIP. The U-turns are more damaging I reckon than the original screw ups.
    I was sent a text yesterday reminding me that IDS campaigned during the last election promising to

    1) Have £12 billion of welfare cuts
    2) Give the middle class tax cuts
    I'm trying to stop the canonisation of IDS.
    You do seem to be desperately fighting Osborne's corner. Have you skin in the game?
    Two out of yesterday's three threads were anti Osborne.

    Don't you get tired of being wrong?
    No. I admit when I am wrong and move on. You wish to deflect the point from posts to headline articles. Oh look at that over there! Meanwhile your posts continue to push lines favourable to Osborne.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    edited March 2016

    On reflection, having seen IDS and the likes of Bernard Jenkin on tv yesterday, and the damage they did to John Major, now David Cameron, makes me want to go out and spend the next three months campaigning for Remain.

    After a very long shower. They really are the pits. Why Cameron gave the job to someone known to be thick as two short planks serially disloyal and a proven liar about his qualifications is something of a mystery
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    My kindle is flat and unused in 5 months - what's the issue?

    Mr. Eye, it may have been lurking in an e-mail that had a misleadingly dull title. I do get such e-mails about the Kindle but only read them if they appear relevant (and an urgent update is the sort of thing that ought to be in the title).

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    Scott_P said:

    @michaelsavage: Economist Intelligence Unit: 'Potential beneficiary will be home sec Theresa May; we believe she is now strongest placed to succeed Cameron'

    Hmm I have some green numbers next to May on Betfair. Tissue Price and Nabavi have also tipped this up.

    One to keep onside for sure.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,080
    Miss Plato, unless the update is downloaded then it seems internet functions will be lost [it can be installed later, via USB cable, but that's a shade clunky]. It seems most people were entirely unaware of this, and the deadline's tomorrow.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896
    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    IDS's resignation letter was the most aggressive by a Cabinet minister in living memory. Any attempt to portray him as a lamb in all this is laughable.

    No one is suggesting he is a lamb, they are suggesting he is someone that could have been left alone to play with his toys in DWP with very little problem, but Osborne being an arrogant tosser who plainly didn't like him couldn't resist pushing a bit harder and then looks all surprised when it blows up in his face.
    Osborne has a budget to balance.
    If he gave less money away to rich pensioners and other client groups that wouldn't be a problem.
    My peer group (I know, I know) of pensioners, many not Tories, wouldn’t object too much to paying a bit of increased tax for our bus passes and free TV licences.
    Especially when we see our grandchildren kicked in teeth on a regular basis and hear their concerns about how they’re going to find the money for their first home, whether rented or bought.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited March 2016
    Scott_P said:

    Underneath his challenge, of course, lies something deeper. For Mr Duncan Smith nothing is more important than Europe. Playing a leading role in splitting the party when John Major was prime minister was, after all, how he first made his name. Having decided that he would not stay after the referendum, why not resign now? He will figure that it might help the cause, and indeed it might.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4717910.ece?shareToken=caebf505709e8b0204b2944026600b87
    As written by Osborne's special friend and advisor Danny Finkelstein. Dishing out the poison to IDS. Now if Osborne had the slightest political sense he would have asked his friends etc to just STFU and had a dignified silence. Instead Osborne unleashes another round of attacks inviting responses. Clearly Osborne has ignored the advice of Graham Brady.
  • Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    IDS's resignation letter was the most aggressive by a Cabinet minister in living memory. Any attempt to portray him as a lamb in all this is laughable.

    No one is suggesting he is a lamb, they are suggesting he is someone that could have been left alone to play with his toys in DWP with very little problem, but Osborne being an arrogant tosser who plainly didn't like him couldn't resist pushing a bit harder and then looks all surprised when it blows up in his face.
    Osborne has a budget to balance.
    If he gave less money away to rich pensioners and other client groups that wouldn't be a problem.
    My peer group (I know, I know) of pensioners, many not Tories, wouldn’t object too much to paying a bit of increased tax for our bus passes and free TV licences.
    Especially when we see our grandchildren kicked in teeth on a regular basis and hear their concerns about how they’re going to find the money for their first home, whether rented or bought.
    Agreed. A little bit taken from the wealthier top third of pensioners would have been a sensible step.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,567
    Scott_P said:

    @michaelsavage: Economist Intelligence Unit: 'Potential beneficiary will be home sec Theresa May; we believe she is now strongest placed to succeed Cameron'

    I'm green on May. Bring her on.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Golly, I've one of your books on there

    #goesofftochargeit

    Miss Plato, unless the update is downloaded then it seems internet functions will be lost [it can be installed later, via USB cable, but that's a shade clunky]. It seems most people were entirely unaware of this, and the deadline's tomorrow.

  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited March 2016
    Roger said:

    On reflection, having seen IDS and the likes of Bernard Jenkin on tv yesterday, and the damage they did to John Major, now David Cameron, makes me want to go out and spend the next three months campaigning for Remain.

    After a very long shower. They really are the pits.....
    off topic
    Roger. Thanks for the Oscar tip on Visual effects. I owe you a drink if we ever bump into each other.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    IDS's resignation letter was the most aggressive by a Cabinet minister in living memory. Any attempt to portray him as a lamb in all this is laughable.

    No one is suggesting he is a lamb, they are suggesting he is someone that could have been left alone to play with his toys in DWP with very little problem, but Osborne being an arrogant tosser who plainly didn't like him couldn't resist pushing a bit harder and then looks all surprised when it blows up in his face.
    Osborne has a budget to balance.
    If he gave less money away to rich pensioners and other client groups that wouldn't be a problem.
    My peer group (I know, I know) of pensioners, many not Tories, wouldn’t object too much to paying a bit of increased tax for our bus passes and free TV licences.
    Especially when we see our grandchildren kicked in teeth on a regular basis and hear their concerns about how they’re going to find the money for their first home, whether rented or bought.
    Agreed. A little bit taken from the wealthier top third of pensioners would have been a sensible step.
    I wouldn’t describe many, or indeed all of us as the wealthier top third of pensioners, either.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    surbiton said:

    What are you attempting to achieve here? More division?

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    On reflection, having seen IDS and the likes of Bernard Jenkin on tv yesterday, and the damage they did to John Major, now David Cameron, makes me want to go out and spend the next three months campaigning for Remain.

    This is one of those occasions where you need to seperate the people from the issue. I can understand the sentiment though.
    Last night's piece nearly contained this gem

    'When their political careers are over, IDS will be responsible for more Labour general election victories than Corbyn'
    Osborne has of course brought alot of this on himself by overtly making crap budgets and then U-turning on stuff like tax credits, PIP. The U-turns are more damaging I reckon than the original screw ups.
    I was sent a text yesterday reminding me that IDS campaigned during the last election promising to

    1) Have £12 billion of welfare cuts
    2) Give the middle class tax cuts
    IDS apparently was also against the Welfare cap. Did he get mixed up with the Tory and Labour manifestos ?
    Extraordinary isn't it. This is Mr Bedroom Tax himself. I've heard of some damascene conversions but this is akin to the Pope becoming a rastafarian
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    I can't help wondering who is responsible for the impact assessments for the various welfare reforms the government is making a habit of back-tracking on, and who, when they see them, is responsible for the communications that follow.

    £12bn in welfare reform should be comfortably achievable out of a £200bn+ bill, and IDS is perfectly right in criticising the pensioner benefits straitjacket that is in place.

  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I normally really like The Fink, his EU columns get what they deserve in the comments.

    Scott_P said:

    Underneath his challenge, of course, lies something deeper. For Mr Duncan Smith nothing is more important than Europe. Playing a leading role in splitting the party when John Major was prime minister was, after all, how he first made his name. Having decided that he would not stay after the referendum, why not resign now? He will figure that it might help the cause, and indeed it might.
    http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/politics/article4717910.ece?shareToken=caebf505709e8b0204b2944026600b87
    As written by Osborne's special friend and advisor Danny Finkelstein. Dishing out the poison to IDS. Now if Osborne had the slightest political sense he would have asked his friends etc to just STFU and had a dignified silence. Instead Osborne unleashes another round of attacks inviting responses. Clearly Osborne has ignored the advice of Graham Brady.


  • Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:

    @michaelsavage: Economist Intelligence Unit: 'Potential beneficiary will be home sec Theresa May; we believe she is now strongest placed to succeed Cameron'

    Hmm I have some green numbers next to May on Betfair. Tissue Price and Nabavi have also tipped this up.

    One to keep onside for sure.
    She's been undamaged by the EURef campaign so far, plus she looks like the only grown up there at the moment.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    He mentioned £33bn of cuts from his budgets, that's an enormous sum already.
    chestnut said:

    I can't help wondering who is responsible for the impact assessments for the various welfare reforms the government is making a habit of back-tracking on, and who, when they see them, is responsible for the communications that follow.

    £12bn in welfare reform should be comfortably achievable out of a £200bn+ bill, and IDS is perfectly right in criticising the pensioner benefits straitjacket that is in place.

  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    chestnut said:

    IDS is perfectly right in criticising the pensioner benefits straitjacket that is in place.

    Which is why he criticised it so heavily when he stood on a platform at the election which included the triple lock

    Oh, wait...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @IanDunt: So McDonnell wants Osborne to a) resign and b) withdraw the Budget. The former after the latter presumably. https://t.co/dYBES0TBJV

    @IanDunt: It is quite extraordinary, Labour's ability to cock this sort of thing up. All they have to do is sit back and watch.
This discussion has been closed.