The Conservatives are going to be at each other's throats for years.
This is a proper gamechanger. The Gove bet looks better and better.
The benefit of having an ex leader in a position to be able to resign is that he knows when to cause the most damage.
If this has been done right, and is about the leadership, there will be another resignation tomorrow.
May, if she feels up for the fight? Gove?
May will have designs on the Remain nomination, which look better and better now. She won't be resigning. Gove is a unity candidate, representing both Cameroonism and Euroscepticism. So he won't be resigning either. Villiers or Whittingdale might go, but neither have huge star quality.
IDS resignation letter cuts are "distinctly political rather than in the national economic interest"
Political dynamite... I don't agree that there shouldn't be any cuts (and I doubt IDS meant to say that either) but clearly this latest stuff with hitting the disabled (while protecting the baby boomers) is political.
I was (and remain) astonished that Osborne and Cameron dared to go after the disabled again.
@davieclegg: So has IDS finally found a conscience or is this really about Europe?
Call me a cynic, but my first thought is that it's the latter. I'd have to read his resignation letter and see what he says in interviews before I'm sure, though.
It's a shame. IDS was doing reasonably well in that position. He'd been in it long enough ...
Perhaps he was sick of Osborne threatening people their career was over if they didn't support Remain.
Allegedly.
Or perhaps he wants to damage the two leading remainers, and to hell with the Conservative Party?
We won't get to know the 'truth' of current events for a few years, when the competing biographies are written.
Wow IDS saying cuts are no longer required but are just Political rather than in the economic interests of the nation.
Yes, biggest part of the whole thing for me. If IDS thinks that, there must be others in the cabinet who do too, and plenty more of the parliamentary party and members who do too - sticking to the deficit targets, or at least making an appearance at trying too, is central to Cameron and Osborne and their presentation of economic competence.
IDS seems to be saying that's bollocks, what we've done on deficit reduction is enough, so it's time to stop.
We're all Corbynites now.
Indeed good job Kendall wasnt in charge of Labour. Labour more pro Austerity than IDS!!!
Summary - IDS is a noble hero, Osborne ruined everything IDS wanted to help the nation and is a cock to boot, this was the last straw.
I've no idea of the history, but from the tone I think I know which side Nelson will be on in any IDS vs Osborne battle.
Sure Nelson's giving the IDS side, but this budget should have been the safest one in living memory with the EU referendum coming up, instead there was a highly controversial change to PIP made for no obvious immediate reason. Cock up, conspiracy, whatever it doesn't really matter, the question is why do the Treasury or Osborne keep doing these things which detract from the overall successful economic and fiscal policy?
Oh it's a self inflicted wound, no question, and whatever other factors influenced IDS' decision, I'm not about to argue Osborne and co have played no part in it. But I generally get the impression Nelson likes to present as very reasoned and unemotional in his analysis or reporting, and while flare may be unavoidable in this situation (or I've just called him completely wrong) the language employed was like that of a comment section than what I generally expected from him.
Get a grip folks - IDS doesn't give a sh*t about the disabled. He's your typical right-wing thug who's pushes cuts against the most vulnerable as a matter of course. This is purely a political move from a person whose loyalty and trust has always been questionable.
Anyway, I'm pushing for a IDS for PM motion He's one the one Tory leader that will make Corbyn look like a colossus.
Wow IDS saying cuts are no longer required but are just Political rather than in the economic interests of the nation.
Yes, biggest part of the whole thing for me. If IDS thinks that, there must be others in the cabinet who do too, and plenty more of the parliamentary party and members who do too - sticking to the deficit targets, or at least making an appearance at trying too, is central to Cameron and Osborne and their presentation of economic competence.
IDS seems to be saying that's bollocks, what we've done on deficit reduction is enough, so it's time to stop.
We're all Corbynites now.
That's not quite what he means.
"While they are defensible in narrow terms, given the continuing deficit, they are not defensible in the way they were placed within a Budget that benefits higher earning taxpayers. They should have instead been part of a wider process to engage others in finding the best way to better focus resources on those most in need."
IDS is objecting to cutting PIP whilst cutting taxes that benefit the relatively well off.
We in Labour have been appalled by what the government have been doing to the disabled for a while. Nd whilst we've made our case against this clear we don't need to say much. Not when the man so many despise resigns and says that it's a political decision to do this.
Fantastic. The nasty pasty. As defined by the now resigned head nasty.
There was a news story today that said that an analysis of Trump's vocabulary found that he uses the language of a sub 11 year old.
That to me is worrying. To communicate this simplistically as a politician not only takes great intelligence, but is also intuitive and pervasive. It elevates Trump rather than degrades him.
So, Mr Cluedo Meeks, I'd take that as a compliment too. Keeping things simple is perhaps the most underrated virtue there is.
If Leave wins IDS will presumably be back in the cabinet by Christmas. If so, the words in his resignation letter may come back to haunt him.
Iain Duncan Smith's cabinet career under David Cameron is over. David Cameron doesn't forgive in the first place and he will still be seething about this on his deathbed.
Iain Duncan Smith will know that. So if he retains cabinet ambitions, he's going to be joining the plotters.
I bet you're brilliant at Cluedo.
SeanT once described me as expert in stating the blindingly obvious. He meant it as an insult but it was a compliment.
If Leave wins IDS will presumably be back in the cabinet by Christmas. If so, the words in his resignation letter may come back to haunt him.
Iain Duncan Smith's cabinet career under David Cameron is over. David Cameron doesn't forgive in the first place and he will still be seething about this on his deathbed.
Iain Duncan Smith will know that. So if he retains cabinet ambitions, he's going to be joining the plotters.
I bet you're brilliant at Cluedo.
SeanT once described me as expert in stating the blindingly obvious. He meant it as an insult but it was a compliment.
Following Rod's link - In response, the Canadian health ministry has cautioned against overstating Canada’s role in the opioid crisis in the United States, where drug overdoses have surpassed motor vehicles and firearms as the No. 1 cause of accidental death. - I had no idea - I wonder what the stats are for this country.
3,300 deaths from 'drug poisoning' (i.e overdoses) 4,600 road deaths
Of the 3,300 drug overdoses, about two-thirds were from illegal drugs. Of these, heroin was half the total. If you put together all-opiates, you get to more than half of all drug overdoses. Apparently there were 31 cannabis overdoses, which surprised me.
***** BETTING POST ***** Earlier today I backed Labour at 3.95 to win most seats at the next GE. They can still be backed at 3.75 (with Laddies & Bet365), which looks like cracking value to me, but as ever DYOR.
@MShapland: Everyone realises that Iain Duncan Smith announced the £4bn #PIPcuts the Friday BEFORE THE budget. Right? Command paper 9194... #IDSofMarch
Wow IDS saying cuts are no longer required but are just Political rather than in the economic interests of the nation.
Yes, biggest part of the whole thing for me. If IDS thinks that, there must be others in the cabinet who do too, and plenty more of the parliamentary party and members who do too - sticking to the deficit targets, or at least making an appearance at trying too, is central to Cameron and Osborne and their presentation of economic competence.
IDS seems to be saying that's bollocks, what we've done on deficit reduction is enough, so it's time to stop.
We're all Corbynites now.
That's not quite what he means.
"While they are defensible in narrow terms, given the continuing deficit, they are not defensible in the way they were placed within a Budget that benefits higher earning taxpayers. They should have instead been part of a wider process to engage others in finding the best way to better focus resources on those most in need."
IDS is objecting to cutting PIP whilst cutting taxes that benefit the relatively well off.
Which is what Labour have said has been happening for six years - so I don't see much difference. Seems to me he's saying the theory of cutting is sound while the deficit exists, but these are the wrong cuts - the same thing Labour has been saying for five of the last six years - as if it was wrong to cut while reducing taxes elsewhere which benefit the rich, why is now the final straw?
IDS is objecting to cutting PIP whilst cutting taxes that benefit the relatively well off.
And that is blindingly obvious isn't it? Imagine your a minister being told repeatedly by the treasury that you've got to take budget cuts to help cut the deficit and then you're told on Wednesday morning that the Chancellor is cutting taxes for high earners.
Anyone care to name the price tonight on George Osborne as next party leader?
Things can change and crises can pass but right now I wouldn't take anything south of 50/1.
I can't tell you how comfortable I feel with the large red number I have against his name.
David's caveat is wise but it would be astounding for Osborne to come back from this. He looks like he doesn't have a grip.
I've always had my doubts about him... But the likes of Richard Nabavi made me think maybe, just maybe I'd got him wrong... But I didn't. Osborne is indeed a waste of space.
So who is going to be the Cameroon candidate when he goes (this year or next - even if Remain win, I cannot see him lasting, unfortunately)?
It depends on how long DC continues and how the factions in the party come together in a post referendum cabinet. It may well be someone not on the radar yet and there are many capable women who could yet shine through given enough time
So it seems like Cameron and Osborne have been found out. You can cut spending in the name of deficit reduction but you can't do it at the same time as handing out tax cut goodies for the Tory base. It undercuts your whole rationale and makes it seem like you're just cutting for cuttings sake.
What's amazing about this was that this was exactly lesson from the Omnishambles budget, which was the worse damage Osborne got so far, and now he's done it again in Omnishambles 2.0.
We in Labour have been appalled by what the government have been doing to the disabled for a while. Nd whilst we've made our case against this clear we don't need to say much. Not when the man so many despise resigns and says that it's a political decision to do this.
Fantastic. The nasty pasty. As defined by the now resigned head nasty.
The problem is it's difficult to play that card with conviction when your leader is a man who has shared platforms with Holocaust deniers, said that British people do not deserve the protection of the UNDHR, and stands accused of covering up systematic child sex abuse in his constituency.
@ianbirrell: If IDS really believed the disability benefit cuts were indefensible, why did he only resign after the budget when others protested?
That is indeed the question
Because he wouldn't have known what else Osborne was planning. It's one thing making really horrible choices when you're told it's the only way. But to watch the Chancellor give away loads of money to the well off voters might have tipped him over the edge.
Still it hardly matters. The main damage is done even if there is indeed scope to pick apart what his primary motivations were or how consistent his actions have been with the principles he espouses in his resignation letter.
A bunch of Cameron haters are already likely to be having orgasms at his boldness, Labour may think he's a hypocrite for only claiming a conscience now but will be similarly joyful at Tories sniping at one another, and LDs...well, will be looking for someone to put them in front of a camera so they can get in on the story somehow.
That's one fewer incompetent in the cabinet. Only 6 years too late. Must have been the only cabinet member whose sole "qualification" for office was that Conservative Home wanted him.
***** BETTING POST ***** Earlier today I backed Labour at 3.95 to win most seats at the next GE. They can still be backed at 3.75 (with Laddies & Bet365), which looks like cracking value to me, but as ever DYOR.
@ianbirrell: If IDS really believed the disability benefit cuts were indefensible, why did he only resign after the budget when others protested?
That is indeed the question
Because he wouldn't have known what else Osborne was planning. It's one thing making really horrible choices when you're told it's the only way. But to watch the Chancellor give away loads of money to the well off voters might have tipped him over the edge.
So he had no problem with the cuts - just the presentation ?
If IDS had really found his conscience (as opposed to wanting to cause maximum trouble for Cameron/Osborne) he would have resigned before he signed off the budget...
So Osborne has to get permission from all the other ministers for this budget, does he?
The way it works is that the Chief Secretary to the Treasury discusses/negotiates/imposes [delete as appropriate] each department's spending plans ahead of the budget. Therefore, one of two things happened: 1. Cameron and Osborne decided to f*ck IDS or 2. this is really all about the EU.
IDS is objecting to cutting PIP whilst cutting taxes that benefit the relatively well off.
And that is blindingly obvious isn't it? Imagine your a minister being told repeatedly by the treasury that you've got to take budget cuts to help cut the deficit and then you're told on Wednesday morning that the Chancellor is cutting taxes for high earners.
Must be a tough gig being dictated to by Osborne as well.
My guess is Hunt to IDS's old job and kill two problems at once. Boris to Health to finish off a third...
Jeremy Hunt is the only cabinet member who has the courage of his convictions it seems.
That said Boris to health would be utterly hilarious.
Plenty of Tories have the courage of their convictions, but sadly most of these don't have the wisdom to realise that their convictions are wrong.
Many will feel so. Tories will recognise the argument, as they (and many others) employ it against Corbyn and other politicians of 'principle', when their principles may be bloody barmy, but at least they have them!
Which is what Labour have said has been happening for six years - so I don't see much difference. Seems to me he's saying the theory of cutting is sound while the deficit exists, but these are the wrong cuts - the same thing Labour has been saying for five of the last six years - as if it was wrong to cut while reducing taxes elsewhere which benefit the rich, why is now the final straw?
Because some of the cuts were justified. Welfare spending had to come down, but that doesn't mean that you keep cutting indefinitely so that Osborne can throw a few sweeties to potential future supporters.
Wow IDS saying cuts are no longer required but are just Political rather than in the economic interests of the nation.
Yes, biggest part of the whole thing for me. If IDS thinks that, there must be others in the cabinet who do too, and plenty more of the parliamentary party and members who do too - sticking to the deficit targets, or at least making an appearance at trying too, is central to Cameron and Osborne and their presentation of economic competence.
IDS seems to be saying that's bollocks, what we've done on deficit reduction is enough, so it's time to stop.
We're all Corbynites now.
That's not quite what he means.
"While they are defensible in narrow terms, given the continuing deficit, they are not defensible in the way they were placed within a Budget that benefits higher earning taxpayers. They should have instead been part of a wider process to engage others in finding the best way to better focus resources on those most in need."
IDS is objecting to cutting PIP whilst cutting taxes that benefit the relatively well off.
Which is what Labour have said has been happening for six years - so I don't see much difference. Seems to me he's saying the theory of cutting is sound while the deficit exists, but these are the wrong cuts - the same thing Labour has been saying for five of the last six years - as if it was wrong to cut while reducing taxes elsewhere which benefit the rich, why is now the final straw?
I think reducing the top rate from 50p to 45p can be rationalised in that it might make more money for the government. But that's certainly not the case with the goodies for high earners in this week's budget.
So it seems like Cameron and Osborne have been found out. You can cut spending in the name of deficit reduction but you can't do it at the same time as handing out tax cut goodies for the Tory base. It undercuts your whole rationale and makes it seem like you're just cutting for cuttings sake.
What's amazing about this was that this was exactly lesson from the Omnishambles budget, which was the worse damage Osborne got so far, and now he's done it again in Omnishambles 2.0.
So we're running about a year ahead of last time, which means the Tories will recover but this time peak a year before the election, and so lose in 2020!
If IDS had really found his conscience (as opposed to wanting to cause maximum trouble for Cameron/Osborne) he would have resigned before he signed off the budget...
So Osborne has to get permission from all the other ministers for this budget, does he?
The way it works is that the Chief Secretary to the Treasury discusses/negotiates/imposes [delete as appropriate] each department's spending plans ahead of the budget. Therefore, one of two things happened: 1. Cameron and Osborne decided to f*ck IDS or 2. this is really all about the EU.
Or he was told cuts were needed for deficit reduction, and then Osborne spent the money of the disabled on handouts to wealthy professionals.
@ianbirrell: If IDS really believed the disability benefit cuts were indefensible, why did he only resign after the budget when others protested?
That is indeed the question
Because he wouldn't have known what else Osborne was planning. It's one thing making really horrible choices when you're told it's the only way. But to watch the Chancellor give away loads of money to the well off voters might have tipped him over the edge.
So he had no problem with the cuts - just the presentation ?
Perhaps he's overstating how bad the cuts are for effect. But I'd feel severely undermined if I had to be the minister implementing these cuts in the context of tax cuts for the rich.
Anyone care to name the price tonight on George Osborne as next party leader?
Things can change and crises can pass but right now I wouldn't take anything south of 50/1.
I can't tell you how comfortable I feel with the large red number I have against his name.
David's caveat is wise but it would be astounding for Osborne to come back from this. He looks like he doesn't have a grip.
I've always had my doubts about him... But the likes of Richard Nabavi made me think maybe, just maybe I'd got him wrong... But I didn't. Osborne is indeed a waste of space.
Tbh I think he's one of the most interesting politicians of recent years. He's clever but flawed. He's not a suit that disappears into the background though. We'll remember who he was in twenty years time.
None of that means he would be a good leader though. And he probably knows that.
If IDS had really found his conscience (as opposed to wanting to cause maximum trouble for Cameron/Osborne) he would have resigned before he signed off the budget...
So Osborne has to get permission from all the other ministers for this budget, does he?
The way it works is that the Chief Secretary to the Treasury discusses/negotiates/imposes [delete as appropriate] each department's spending plans ahead of the budget. Therefore, one of two things happened: 1. Cameron and Osborne decided to f*ck IDS or 2. this is really all about the EU.
I think it's both. But Osborne delivering a very unpopular budget + first Labour leads for Corbyn = Prime excuse for fireworks inside Tory government.
If anyone wants to knife Osborne, now is the time.
@ianbirrell: If IDS really believed the disability benefit cuts were indefensible, why did he only resign after the budget when others protested?
That is indeed the question
Because he wouldn't have known what else Osborne was planning. It's one thing making really horrible choices when you're told it's the only way. But to watch the Chancellor give away loads of money to the well off voters might have tipped him over the edge.
So he had no problem with the cuts - just the presentation ?
Not presentation - its a practical matter of whether they are being spent to protect the nation from a recession or they're to boost Osborne's standing with Tory base before leadership election.
Which is what Labour have said has been happening for six years - so I don't see much difference. Seems to me he's saying the theory of cutting is sound while the deficit exists, but these are the wrong cuts - the same thing Labour has been saying for five of the last six years - as if it was wrong to cut while reducing taxes elsewhere which benefit the rich, why is now the final straw?
Because some of the cuts were justified. Welfare spending had to come down, but that doesn't mean that you keep cutting indefinitely so that Osborne can throw a few sweeties to potential future supporters.
Perhaps, but it is not as clear cut an issue as he makes it seem in his resignation letter (not a place for nuance, admittedly, though there was some attempt) - plenty of people will argue there's no real difference between what was done before and what was done now; IDS may disagree, and may be right, but could get bogged down explaining the minutiae of why.
But as I said, the main damage that would come has already been done, and the EU referendum was seeing to Cameron and Osborne in any case, so IDS getting some pushback on his reasons for resignation may happen but likely won't be crucial to anything.
If IDS had really found his conscience (as opposed to wanting to cause maximum trouble for Cameron/Osborne) he would have resigned before he signed off the budget...
So Osborne has to get permission from all the other ministers for this budget, does he?
The way it works is that the Chief Secretary to the Treasury discusses/negotiates/imposes [delete as appropriate] each department's spending plans ahead of the budget. Therefore, one of two things happened: 1. Cameron and Osborne decided to f*ck IDS or 2. this is really all about the EU.
Probably number 2.
IDS will return to the back-benches until 2020 if Remain win.
IDS to be Tory leader and PM (I hope) if Leave win.
IDS is going to be so trashed for this. His position is absurd and he has taken on the 2 most effective political operators in UK politics since Mandelson and Blair were in their pomp. The one smart thing he has done is resign too late for tomorrow but the Sundays, they are going to be special.
Of course the government is going to be damaged. That is presumably why he has done it. But IDS, oh boy....
We in Labour have been appalled by what the government have been doing to the disabled for a while. Nd whilst we've made our case against this clear we don't need to say much. Not when the man so many despise resigns and says that it's a political decision to do this.
Fantastic. The nasty pasty. As defined by the now resigned head nasty.
The 'nasty pasty' perhaps a Freudian slip given it was the pasty tax which produced Osborne's last shambolic budget in 2012
Is there generally a consensus view among Tory Leavers on the necessity for cuts, I wonder? Happy at the chaos IDS has unleashed I'm sure they will be, I would be curious how many are among those who were contemplating rebellion on these specific cuts.
***** BETTING POST ***** Earlier today I backed Labour at 3.95 to win most seats at the next GE. They can still be backed at 3.75 (with Laddies & Bet365), which looks like cracking value to me, but as ever DYOR.
You've got to be joking haven't you ?
Hardly ...... Labour are already level or even ahead in the polls. Are you seriously suggesting that Labour'sodds will not shorten materially below 3.75 at some stage over the next four years? So if nothing else this looks like a useful trading bet, in which case Betfair's current 3.85 (i.e 3.71 net) is probably the route to go.
IDS is going to be so trashed for this. His position is absurd and he has taken on the 2 most effective political operators in UK politics since Mandelson and Blair were in their pomp. The one smart thing he has done is resign too late for tomorrow but the Sundays, they are going to be special.
Of course the government is going to be damaged. That is presumably why he has done it. But IDS, oh boy....
I'm not sure the architect of Omnishambles budget and Omnishambles budget 2.0 is a great political operator.
Following Rod's link - In response, the Canadian health ministry has cautioned against overstating Canada’s role in the opioid crisis in the United States, where drug overdoses have surpassed motor vehicles and firearms as the No. 1 cause of accidental death. - I had no idea - I wonder what the stats are for this country.
Once had a letter published in The Lancet on this very subject. Had thought of revisiting and updating it in the last few weeks.
Of course there are posters on here who will shout about how the wonders of the consumer-friendly US health service, where you can get any treatment whether you need it or not, is one of its great features.
@ianbirrell: If IDS really believed the disability benefit cuts were indefensible, why did he only resign after the budget when others protested?
That is indeed the question
Because he wouldn't have known what else Osborne was planning. It's one thing making really horrible choices when you're told it's the only way. But to watch the Chancellor give away loads of money to the well off voters might have tipped him over the edge.
So he had no problem with the cuts - just the presentation ?
Not presentation - its a practical matter of whether they are being spent to protect the nation from a recession or they're to boost Osborne's standing with Tory base before leadership election.
I don't see that.
IDS is a Tory and a right-wing Tory to boot. He's in favour of lower taxes and lower public spending. That's fundamental stuff for him. Whatever else the Tory right wants, it wants low taxes.
Boy, we're a long way from 'Cameron could serve another term if he wanted to' days. Honestly, I like Cameron, but even if his opponents are not a majority of his party, they are a bloody noisy bunch, significant enough to have major backers, and with a crazy level of vitriol, it's incredible a) it's come to this so soon b) that some very intelligent people seem to have genuinely believed the EU would not be a catalyst for much sniping and an opportunity for other opposition to emerge off.
IDS is going to be so trashed for this. His position is absurd and he has taken on the 2 most effective political operators in UK politics since Mandelson and Blair were in their pomp. The one smart thing he has done is resign too late for tomorrow but the Sundays, they are going to be special.
Of course the government is going to be damaged. That is presumably why he has done it. But IDS, oh boy....
I'm not sure the architect of Omnishambles budget and Omnishambles budget 2.0 is a great political operator.
Agreed. All he had to be was better than Miliband. This was the democratic equivalent of being more knowledgeable about agriculture than Mao Zedong.
IDS is going to be so trashed for this. His position is absurd and he has taken on the 2 most effective political operators in UK politics since Mandelson and Blair were in their pomp. The one smart thing he has done is resign too late for tomorrow but the Sundays, they are going to be special.
Of course the government is going to be damaged. That is presumably why he has done it. But IDS, oh boy....
I'm not sure the architect of Omnishambles budget and Omnishambles budget 2.0 is a great political operator.
@ianbirrell: If IDS really believed the disability benefit cuts were indefensible, why did he only resign after the budget when others protested?
That is indeed the question
Because he wouldn't have known what else Osborne was planning. It's one thing making really horrible choices when you're told it's the only way. But to watch the Chancellor give away loads of money to the well off voters might have tipped him over the edge.
So he had no problem with the cuts - just the presentation ?
Not presentation - its a practical matter of whether they are being spent to protect the nation from a recession or they're to boost Osborne's standing with Tory base before leadership election.
I don't see that.
IDS is a Tory and a right-wing Tory to boot. He's in favour of lower taxes and lower public spending. That's fundamental stuff for him. Whatever else the Tory right wants, it wants low taxes.
I consider myself to be right-wing and I want effective taxes. So I supported the cut to the 50p rate of tax because I genuinely believe that it would raise more money.
Bottom line is that I believe that we do need to get rid of the deficit and Osborne's give away budget completely undermines any arguments about making public spending cuts.
@ianbirrell: If IDS really believed the disability benefit cuts were indefensible, why did he only resign after the budget when others protested?
That is indeed the question
Because he wouldn't have known what else Osborne was planning. It's one thing making really horrible choices when you're told it's the only way. But to watch the Chancellor give away loads of money to the well off voters might have tipped him over the edge.
So he had no problem with the cuts - just the presentation ?
Not presentation - its a practical matter of whether they are being spent to protect the nation from a recession or they're to boost Osborne's standing with Tory base before leadership election.
I don't see that.
IDS is a Tory and a right-wing Tory to boot. He's in favour of lower taxes and lower public spending. That's fundamental stuff for him. Whatever else the Tory right wants, it wants low taxes.
Yes, but people are not as ideologically consistent as they think they are. He and others may think that, may think it is fundamental to themselves, but push comes to shove when reality hits, they'll compromise or just flat out go against an ideological position sometimes. His personal level of acceptable cuts in the name of lower spending while keeping taxes low is probably higher than most people, but it would seem he, like us normal people, hits that level where he doesn't want to cut it anymore, but also doesn't want to pay for it with higher taxes (in this case he talks of the wealthy benefiting, but even if that was kept the same level we'd be struggling in plenty of areas to meet the commitments in others)
If IDS had really found his conscience (as opposed to wanting to cause maximum trouble for Cameron/Osborne) he would have resigned before he signed off the budget...
So Osborne has to get permission from all the other ministers for this budget, does he?
The way it works is that the Chief Secretary to the Treasury discusses/negotiates/imposes [delete as appropriate] each department's spending plans ahead of the budget. Therefore, one of two things happened: 1. Cameron and Osborne decided to f*ck IDS or 2. this is really all about the EU.
Given the immediate briefing that it was all the DWPs idea as soon as opposition to the pip cuts was voiced it could be a bit of both.
Comments
I was (and remain) astonished that Osborne and Cameron dared to go after the disabled again.
He's not even listed for next PM, only next tory leader @ 100/1 with ladbrokes.
Not sure I'd back it, but I wouldn't lay it either.....
Or perhaps he wants to damage the two leading remainers, and to hell with the Conservative Party?
We won't get to know the 'truth' of current events for a few years, when the competing biographies are written.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/junior-doctors-strike-bma-announces-planned-escalation-of-action-a6939731.html
My guess is Hunt to IDS's old job and kill two problems at once. Boris to Health to finish off a third...
That is indeed the question
As I said a year after Salmond leaves office and you are still frightened of him.
Anyway, I'm pushing for a IDS for PM motion He's one the one Tory leader that will make Corbyn look like a colossus.
That said Boris to health would be utterly hilarious.
@rosschawkins: Case against IDS will be (1) on the way out anyhow (2) why wait a whole week to quit *after* your dept made the cuts you're decrying
"While they are defensible in narrow terms, given the continuing deficit, they are not defensible in the way they were placed within a Budget that benefits higher earning taxpayers. They should have instead been part of a wider process to engage others in finding the best way to better focus resources on those most in need."
IDS is objecting to cutting PIP whilst cutting taxes that benefit the relatively well off.
Fantastic. The nasty pasty. As defined by the now resigned head nasty.
That to me is worrying. To communicate this simplistically as a politician not only takes great intelligence, but is also intuitive and pervasive. It elevates Trump rather than degrades him.
So, Mr Cluedo Meeks, I'd take that as a compliment too. Keeping things simple is perhaps the most underrated virtue there is.
4,600 road deaths
Of the 3,300 drug overdoses, about two-thirds were from illegal drugs. Of these, heroin was half the total. If you put together all-opiates, you get to more than half of all drug overdoses. Apparently there were 31 cannabis overdoses, which surprised me.
https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/710944125068120066
Earlier today I backed Labour at 3.95 to win most seats at the next GE. They can still be backed at 3.75 (with Laddies & Bet365), which looks like cracking value to me, but as ever DYOR.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMZqS7q7voY
Is the chance of Osborne being a cock a suggestion
Nonsense from Chris Bryant, hasn't he Welsh crowds singing Delilah to worry about.
What's amazing about this was that this was exactly lesson from the Omnishambles budget, which was the worse damage Osborne got so far, and now he's done it again in Omnishambles 2.0.
Still it hardly matters. The main damage is done even if there is indeed scope to pick apart what his primary motivations were or how consistent his actions have been with the principles he espouses in his resignation letter.
A bunch of Cameron haters are already likely to be having orgasms at his boldness, Labour may think he's a hypocrite for only claiming a conscience now but will be similarly joyful at Tories sniping at one another, and LDs...well, will be looking for someone to put them in front of a camera so they can get in on the story somehow.
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/710945603480645632
None of that means he would be a good leader though. And he probably knows that.
But Osborne delivering a very unpopular budget + first Labour leads for Corbyn = Prime excuse for fireworks inside Tory government.
If anyone wants to knife Osborne, now is the time.
But as I said, the main damage that would come has already been done, and the EU referendum was seeing to Cameron and Osborne in any case, so IDS getting some pushback on his reasons for resignation may happen but likely won't be crucial to anything.
IDS will return to the back-benches until 2020 if Remain win.
IDS to be Tory leader and PM (I hope) if Leave win.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/710626092114120708
Of course the government is going to be damaged. That is presumably why he has done it. But IDS, oh boy....
We need those letters sending to the 22 asap.
Cameron and Osborne are destroying the party.
Cue the downfall videos....
Of course there are posters on here who will shout about how the wonders of the consumer-friendly US health service, where you can get any treatment whether you need it or not, is one of its great features.
IDS is a Tory and a right-wing Tory to boot. He's in favour of lower taxes and lower public spending. That's fundamental stuff for him. Whatever else the Tory right wants, it wants low taxes.
It doesn't get much better.
Surely the most hated member of Cameron's government.
What an opportunistic bastard!!
I agree.
And now it happened.
Bottom line is that I believe that we do need to get rid of the deficit and Osborne's give away budget completely undermines any arguments about making public spending cuts.