LOL...Putting Boris in charge of reforming the labyrinthian benefits system...you would be safer putting him charge of a double decker bus of attractive single ladies heading for a weekend away.
IDS: I am unable to watch passively whilst certain politics are enacted in order to meet the fiscal self imposed restraints that I believe are more and more perceived as distinctly political rather than in the national economic interest.
Well, if Tory cabinet ministers don't care about cutting to erase the deficit (despite saying the PM should be proud of the work on deficit reduction), I think that's a pretty clear sign it won't be erased by 2020. Ending on the 'all in this together' line straight out of the opposition playbook feels like a twist of the knife too, but that's probably unavoidable in a resignation letter.
I think the point IDS makes is that it is hard to justify these cuts when he's reducing taxes for the better off. That, I would have thought, is quite an obvious criticism to make.
Well sure, but it's an obvious criticism because it has already been made for years, it's just that suddenly IDS agrees. We all have lines we won't cross I guess.
This is about the referendum
Most things are. I've no reason to doubt his sincerity on not liking these specific cuts at this specific time, but it is surely the case that without the fact he is in essence already in open opposition to the PM on an extremely major issue presumably had an impact on determining whether it was an issue worth grumbling about or resigning over.
He's supported many other cuts before now and this one was on the point of being abandoned.
Following Rod's link - In response, the Canadian health ministry has cautioned against overstating Canada’s role in the opioid crisis in the United States, where drug overdoses have surpassed motor vehicles and firearms as the No. 1 cause of accidental death. - I had no idea - I wonder what the stats are for this country.
Heard him talk about social justice at the Union about 10 years ago. He was passionate; clearly cared more about it than leadership or Winning at any cost.
Osborne is done for. Cameron's position is looking iffy too.
by Union do you mean Oxford Union?
I do.
Otherwise I would have said 'the other place Union', or 'Hull Union'
:-)
I was there too, and I agree he was very passionate about it.
IDS-£4bn of planned cuts to Personal Independence Payments, expected to affect 640,000 people. Mr Duncan Smith said the cuts were "not defensible" within a Budget that "benefits higher earning taxpayers".
@Alison_McGovern: If the Sec of State for Work & Pensions didn't agree the cuts to help for people with disabilities, how did they get in the red book?
I feel desperately sorry for IDS because he genuinely believes in welfare reform and always said this would be his last job in government.
If the conservatives lose their reputation for economic confidence, then they are in real trouble.
I have repeatedly emailed No 10 over the years about their inability to foresee these blunders. They have nobody on the bridge looking out for these icebergs, they just keep sailing into them.
I'm so angry with the lot of them right now and that includes those ill-disciplined back benchers who are constantly on the air-waves.
@davieclegg: So has IDS finally found a conscience or is this really about Europe?
Call me a cynic, but my first thought is that it's the latter. I'd have to read his resignation letter and see what he says in interviews before I'm sure, though.
It's a shame. IDS was doing reasonably well in that position. He'd been in it long enough ...
Let us see. Over a year since he left office and you pair of Tories are still frightened of Salmond.
Took the SNP from no-where to dominate Scottish politics, the SNP into a majority Government in a PR system and then Scotland to the brink of independence.
IDS-£4bn of planned cuts to Personal Independence Payments, expected to affect 640,000 people. Mr Duncan Smith said the cuts were "not defensible" within a Budget that "benefits higher earning taxpayers".
Exactly how ? Did he know that it will be in the budget or not ?
IDS-£4bn of planned cuts to Personal Independence Payments, expected to affect 640,000 people. Mr Duncan Smith said the cuts were "not defensible" within a Budget that "benefits higher earning taxpayers".
Exactly how ? Did he know that it will be in the budget or not ?
He would have known the details for his own department; he wouldn't have known the overall details of the Budget until the morning cabinet on the day it was delivered.
IDS-£4bn of planned cuts to Personal Independence Payments, expected to affect 640,000 people. Mr Duncan Smith said the cuts were "not defensible" within a Budget that "benefits higher earning taxpayers".
Perhaps he intended the cuts to be matched by other matters of retrenchment.
IDS always struck me as genuine in his desire to refocus the welfare state, but also totally incompetent at implementing reform.
I thought the disability stuff was going to be reversed anyway? In which case he could have remained, so to speak, I presume, but with the flare up over the EU probably not a bad time to clear off or be cleared out in any case even if things were to be reversed.
Wasn't it being briefed that the disability cuts were his idea? In the swirl of a Tory civil war it is hard to know what is fact and what is fiction.
IDS: I am unable to watch passively whilst certain politics are enacted in order to meet the fiscal self imposed restraints that I believe are more and more perceived as distinctly political rather than in the national economic interest.
Well, if Tory cabinet ministers don't care about cutting to erase the deficit (despite saying the PM should be proud of the work on deficit reduction), I think that's a pretty clear sign it won't be erased by 2020. Ending on the 'all in this together' line straight out of the opposition playbook feels like a twist of the knife too, but that's probably unavoidable in a resignation letter.
I think the point IDS makes is that it is hard to justify these cuts when he's reducing taxes for the better off. That, I would have thought, is quite an obvious criticism to make.
Well sure, but it's an obvious criticism because it has already been made for years, it's just that suddenly IDS agrees. We all have lines we won't cross I guess.
If IDS had really found his conscience (as opposed to wanting to cause maximum trouble for Cameron/Osborne) he would have resigned before he signed off the budget...
Heard him talk about social justice at the Union about 10 years ago. He was passionate; clearly cared more about it than leadership or Winning at any cost.
Osborne is done for. Cameron's position is looking iffy too.
by Union do you mean Oxford Union?
I do.
Otherwise I would have said 'the other place Union', or 'Hull Union'
:-)
I was there too, and I agree he was very passionate about it.
Small world eh? Made me proud to be a Tory.
Yes, I went to the Union regularly during the first 18 months of my time there and they had some really interesting speakers of which IDS was certainly one. But they had problems attracting speakers after the stuff with Nick Griffin and some holocaust denier being invited to a free speech debate which was a shame.
They have nobody on the bridge looking out for these icebergs, they just keep sailing into them.
I just don't buy it. I don't generally subscribe to conspiracy theories but it really wouldn't surprise me if they've deliberately made IDS's position untenable by giving him some really bad cuts to implement.
If IDS had really found his conscience (as opposed to wanting to cause maximum trouble for Cameron/Osborne) he would have resigned before he signed off the budget...
So Osborne has to get permission from all the other ministers for this budget, does he?
The Conservatives are going to be at each other's throats for years.
I feel this thread needs some SeanT style over-reaction.
This is the End. The absolute end for the snivelling morale coward Cameron and his lick spittle toady number two Osborne. Their Europhillic obsession has destroyed the Tory party for a generation and seven score more.
Their lasting legacy will be a Corbyn led Britain.
If IDS had really found his conscience (as opposed to wanting to cause maximum trouble for Cameron/Osborne) he would have resigned before he signed off the budget...
And so the smearing begins in earnest.
It's like the good old days under Blair and Brown.
You just have to love Scott already on here trying to protect the top two of the Tory party - lol
Err, this is the Labour line...
@ChukaUmunna: IDS resigning has everything to do with the EU and nothing to do with welfare - why wait this long after causing misery to so many to resign
I love politics. Budget was morally reprehensible. By Thursday morning Tory MPs were telling the media the disability cuts weren't on. Thursday afternoon the Treasury put it about that IDS did it. Thursday night Morgan says the budget document is a consultation. Friday morning and "oh no it isnt" say the Treasury. And now IDS jumps blaming the Treasury.
This is all about Osborne. His budget was all about his succession, as with Brown his own Hubris made him think his lies were truth until the IFS laughed at his numbers. Now he's off to blame others for his indefensible attack on the disabled and they're not taking the blame like they're supposed to.
IDS will pin this firmly on oik, it's all him, he's a tyrant disconnected from real people. You can't trust these RemaIN people they're all scum.
What odds on President Trump, PM Johnson and President Le Pen?
The Conservatives are going to be at each other's throats for years.
I feel this thread needs some SeanT style over-reaction.
This is the End. The absolute end for the snivelling morale coward Cameron and his lick spittle toady number two Osborne. Their Europhillic obsession has destroyed the Tory party for a generation and seven score more.
Their lasting legacy will be a Corbyn led Britain.
The cretins, the fools.
You had me until the second last paragraph, but that was ridiculous.
If IDS had really found his conscience (as opposed to wanting to cause maximum trouble for Cameron/Osborne) he would have resigned before he signed off the budget...
But he might not have known about the big give away George was planning for higher earners....
If IDS had really found his conscience (as opposed to wanting to cause maximum trouble for Cameron/Osborne) he would have resigned before he signed off the budget...
So Osborne has to get permission from all the other ministers for this budget, does he?
£4bn is a large some of money. Surely it was mentioned in the morning Cabinet meeting, at the very least. In any case, I cannot believe the Secretary of the Work and Pensions did not know about it beforehand.
The Conservatives are going to be at each other's throats for years.
I feel this thread needs some SeanT style over-reaction.
This is the End. The absolute end for the snivelling morale coward Cameron and his lick spittle toady number two Osborne. Their Europhillic obsession has destroyed the Tory party for a generation and seven score more.
Their lasting legacy will be a Corbyn led Britain.
I bit early though to write the obituary for the english version of a useless liberal leader who messed up.
RIP he led the FDP to a record high in 2009 before their later collapse and was an able Foreign Minister and the first openly gay leader of a German party. He died of Cancer
My friend in the CDU always held him in very high regard.
(As an aside, the FDP is nothing like the LibDems - except in poll shares. The FDP is business friendly, libertarian party.)
If Leave wins IDS will presumably be back in the cabinet by Christmas. If so, the words in his resignation letter may come back to haunt him.
Iain Duncan Smith's cabinet career under David Cameron is over. David Cameron doesn't forgive in the first place and he will still be seething about this on his deathbed.
Iain Duncan Smith will know that. So if he retains cabinet ambitions, he's going to be joining the plotters.
If IDS had really found his conscience (as opposed to wanting to cause maximum trouble for Cameron/Osborne) he would have resigned before he signed off the budget...
So Osborne has to get permission from all the other ministers for this budget, does he?
£4bn is a large some of money. Surely it was mentioned in the morning Cabinet meeting, at the very least. In any case, I cannot believe the Secretary of the Work and Pensions did not know about it beforehand.
Yes indeed. This is already getting messy - just on here we've seen the conspiracy theory that the cuts were proposed to force IDS out on one end, to that he doesn't care, he must have known, it's just about Europe.
Will it be a bloodletting that lasts for years? Hard to say of course, but unless it's a massive win for Leave or a massive win for Remain (with Tory voters a lot less split than seems the case) it's hard to see how one side will be overwhelming enough to win it quickly.
If IDS had really found his conscience (as opposed to wanting to cause maximum trouble for Cameron/Osborne) he would have resigned before he signed off the budget...
So Osborne has to get permission from all the other ministers for this budget, does he?
£4bn is a large some of money. Surely it was mentioned in the morning Cabinet meeting, at the very least. In any case, I cannot believe the Secretary of the Work and Pensions did not know about it beforehand.
This resignation has EU referendum written all over it. Osborne and Cameron have been kippered, so to speak.
I love politics. Budget was morally reprehensible. By Thursday morning Tory MPs were telling the media the disability cuts weren't on. Thursday afternoon the Treasury put it about that IDS did it. Thursday night Morgan says the budget document is a consultation. Friday morning and "oh no it isnt" say the Treasury. And now IDS jumps blaming the Treasury.
This is all about Osborne. His budget was all about his succession, as with Brown his own Hubris made him think his lies were truth until the IFS laughed at his numbers. Now he's off to blame others for his indefensible attack on the disabled and they're not taking the blame like they're supposed to.
IDS will pin this firmly on oik, it's all him, he's a tyrant disconnected from real people. You can't trust these RemaIN people they're all scum.
What odds on President Trump, PM Johnson and President Le Pen?
Useless Osborne U-turns again. I'd set light to the betslip right now if it wasn't a digital one.
I just bet on a spread of Tory longshots:
Dominic Raab 33/1 Penny Mordaunt 50/1 Andrea Leadsom 33/1 Johnny Mercer 100/1
Great guys, all of them.
I think Osborne and Boris are awful value right now.
Johnny Mercer is one of the Tory MPs leading the charge against the "Wheelchair Tax".
I don't agree with all of his views, but he isn't afraid to put himself out on a limb, and go against the grain, and he definitely has the X-factor.
He is leadership material.
Even 59% of Tory voters opposed the disability benefit cuts in the post Budget yougov and just 13% of voters as a whole, there will be a rebellion by Tory backbenchers and as with tax credits Osborne will have to u-turn
Not this one. Nor did I oppose the tax credit cuts.
We spend too much money on social support and benefits in this country and, as DavidL said the other day, it distorts the economy.
Well that is your personal view but these benefits are focused on helping the disabled complete everyday tasks independently and it would be political suicide to end them with the vast majority of voters backing the benefits
I support a basic safety net, but otherwise the solution is to help disabled people into work and support them with a strong family and local community net, the Big Society, not the state.
In practical terms you need funding to do that and the IDS resignation makes an Osborne u-turn now inevitable, though as a Leave backer it is not completely surprising and will give him more freedom to campaign against the EU
The Tories continue to eat themselves. Osborne is done for now, surely.
I have little doubt but this is Europe that is driving IDS. Osborne using the OBR for the remain case in the budget speech probably infuriated IDS and being an outer would not want Osborne to continue in no 11 post 23rd June. He has been party to all the previous cuts and to make a clear political statement in his resignation speech is his way of finishing Osborne's leadership bid. I do believe Osborne will be moved post 23rd June and that he will not become PM but nor will Boris. At least it is not long to the summer holidays after the referendum and the Autumn should provide a new dawn with a new cabinet and nearly 4 years to the next election. I am pleased the referendum is going to be soon and demonstrates why David Cameron was right not to wait till late 2017.
@davieclegg: So has IDS finally found a conscience or is this really about Europe?
Call me a cynic, but my first thought is that it's the latter. I'd have to read his resignation letter and see what he says in interviews before I'm sure, though.
It's a shame. IDS was doing reasonably well in that position. He'd been in it long enough ...
Perhaps he was sick of Osborne threatening people their career was over if they didn't support Remain.
If IDS had really found his conscience (as opposed to wanting to cause maximum trouble for Cameron/Osborne) he would have resigned before he signed off the budget...
So Osborne has to get permission from all the other ministers for this budget, does he?
£4bn is a large some of money. Surely it was mentioned in the morning Cabinet meeting, at the very least. In any case, I cannot believe the Secretary of the Work and Pensions did not know about it beforehand.
Yes indeed. This is already getting messy - just on here we've seen the conspiracy theory that the cuts were proposed to force IDS out on one end, to that he doesn't care, he must have known, it's just about Europe.
Will it be a bloodletting that lasts for years? Hard to say of course, but unless it's a massive win for Leave or a massive win for Remain (with Tory voters a lot less split than seems the case) it's hard to see how one side will be overwhelming enough to win it quickly.
It's taken less than a year after the GE for open hostilities to break out in the Tory party. Is this a record?
If IDS had really found his conscience (as opposed to wanting to cause maximum trouble for Cameron/Osborne) he would have resigned before he signed off the budget...
So Osborne has to get permission from all the other ministers for this budget, does he?
£4bn is a large some of money. Surely it was mentioned in the morning Cabinet meeting, at the very least. In any case, I cannot believe the Secretary of the Work and Pensions did not know about it beforehand.
Yes indeed. This is already getting messy - just on here we've seen the conspiracy theory that the cuts were proposed to force IDS out on one end, to that he doesn't care, he must have known, it's just about Europe.
Will it be a bloodletting that lasts for years? Hard to say of course, but unless it's a massive win for Leave or a massive win for Remain (with Tory voters a lot less split than seems the case) it's hard to see how one side will be overwhelming enough to win it quickly.
It's taken less than a year after the GE for open hostilities to break out in the Tory party. Is this a record?
Possibly. But this is the first time in peacetime since 1931 that they have had no opposition of any sort to think about. If they want to continue fighting and politicking they have to do it to themselves.
The Conservatives are going to be at each other's throats for years.
This is a proper gamechanger. The Gove bet looks better and better.
The benefit of having an ex leader in a position to be able to resign is that he knows when to cause the most damage.
If this has been done right, and is about the leadership, there will be another resignation tomorrow.
May, if she feels up for the fight? Gove?
May will have designs on the Remain nomination, which look better and better now. She won't be resigning. Gove is a unity candidate, representing both Cameroonism and Euroscepticism. So he won't be resigning either. Villiers or Whittingdale might go, but neither have huge star quality.
If IDS had really found his conscience (as opposed to wanting to cause maximum trouble for Cameron/Osborne) he would have resigned before he signed off the budget...
So Osborne has to get permission from all the other ministers for this budget, does he?
Yes. That said, it does depend on how much detail Osborne lets the cabinet in on.
If Leave wins IDS will presumably be back in the cabinet by Christmas. If so, the words in his resignation letter may come back to haunt him.
Iain Duncan Smith's cabinet career under David Cameron is over. David Cameron doesn't forgive in the first place and he will still be seething about this on his deathbed.
Iain Duncan Smith will know that. So if he retains cabinet ambitions, he's going to be joining the plotters.
The Conservatives are going to be at each other's throats for years.
This is a proper gamechanger. The Gove bet looks better and better.
The benefit of having an ex leader in a position to be able to resign is that he knows when to cause the most damage.
If this has been done right, and is about the leadership, there will be another resignation tomorrow.
May, if she feels up for the fight? Gove?
May will have designs on the Remain nomination, which look better and better now. She won't be resigning. Gove is a unity candidate, representing both Cameroonism and Euroscepticism. So he won't be resigning either. Villiers or Whittingdale might go, but neither have huge star quality.
Wow IDS saying cuts are no longer required but are just Political rather than in the economic interests of the nation.
Yes, biggest part of the whole thing for me. If IDS thinks that, there must be others in the cabinet who do too, and plenty more of the parliamentary party and members who do too - sticking to the deficit targets, or at least making an appearance at trying too, is central to Cameron and Osborne and their presentation of economic competence.
IDS seems to be saying that's bollocks, what we've done on deficit reduction is enough, so it's time to stop.
If Leave wins IDS will presumably be back in the cabinet by Christmas. If so, the words in his resignation letter may come back to haunt him.
Iain Duncan Smith's cabinet career under David Cameron is over. David Cameron doesn't forgive in the first place and he will still be seething about this on his deathbed.
Iain Duncan Smith will know that. So if he retains cabinet ambitions, he's going to be joining the plotters.
I bet you're brilliant at Cluedo.
SeanT once described me as expert in stating the blindingly obvious. He meant it as an insult but it was a compliment.
If Leave wins IDS will presumably be back in the cabinet by Christmas. If so, the words in his resignation letter may come back to haunt him.
Iain Duncan Smith's cabinet career under David Cameron is over. David Cameron doesn't forgive in the first place and he will still be seething about this on his deathbed.
Iain Duncan Smith will know that. So if he retains cabinet ambitions, he's going to be joining the plotters.
The quickest way to get rid of Cameron is for Leave to win in June. IDS will hold nothing back on that front now. But I'm not sure that's necessarily good for Leave!
Summary - IDS is a noble hero, Osborne ruined everything IDS wanted to help the nation and is a cock to boot, this was the last straw.
I've no idea of the history, but from the tone I think I know which side Nelson will be on in any IDS vs Osborne battle.
Sure Nelson's giving the IDS side, but this budget should have been the safest one in living memory with the EU referendum coming up, instead there was a highly controversial change to PIP made for no obvious immediate reason. Cock up, conspiracy, whatever it doesn't really matter, the question is why do the Treasury or Osborne keep doing these things which detract from the overall successful economic and fiscal policy?
The Conservatives are going to be at each other's throats for years.
This is a proper gamechanger. The Gove bet looks better and better.
The benefit of having an ex leader in a position to be able to resign is that he knows when to cause the most damage.
If this has been done right, and is about the leadership, there will be another resignation tomorrow.
May, if she feels up for the fight? Gove?
May will have designs on the Remain nomination, which look better and better now. She won't be resigning. Gove is a unity candidate, representing both Cameroonism and Euroscepticism. So he won't be resigning either. Villiers or Whittingdale might go, but neither have huge star quality.
Comments
IDS turns it up to 11.
Mr Duncan Smith said the cuts were "not defensible" within a Budget that "benefits higher earning taxpayers".
@Alison_McGovern: If the Sec of State for Work & Pensions didn't agree the cuts to help for people with disabilities, how did they get in the red book?
If the conservatives lose their reputation for economic confidence, then they are in real trouble.
I have repeatedly emailed No 10 over the years about their inability to foresee these blunders. They have nobody on the bridge looking out for these icebergs, they just keep sailing into them.
I'm so angry with the lot of them right now and that includes those ill-disciplined back benchers who are constantly on the air-waves.
It's a shame. IDS was doing reasonably well in that position. He'd been in it long enough ...
Let us see. Over a year since he left office and you pair of Tories are still frightened of Salmond.
Took the SNP from no-where to dominate Scottish politics, the SNP into a majority Government in a PR system and then Scotland to the brink of independence.
Not bad and certainly not over-rated.
His choice of date/question/mandate, and he threw it all away.
It's hilarious/tragic (delete as appropriate)
IDS always struck me as genuine in his desire to refocus the welfare state, but also totally incompetent at implementing reform.
(ht @Kennyf1283)
The Conservatives are going to be at each other's throats for years.
So Osborne has to get permission from all the other ministers for this budget, does he?
I missed this one.
This is the End. The absolute end for the snivelling morale coward Cameron and his lick spittle toady number two Osborne. Their Europhillic obsession has destroyed the Tory party for a generation and seven score more.
Their lasting legacy will be a Corbyn led Britain.
The cretins, the fools.
It's like the good old days under Blair and Brown.
@ChukaUmunna: IDS resigning has everything to do with the EU and nothing to do with welfare - why wait this long after causing misery to so many to resign
This is all about Osborne. His budget was all about his succession, as with Brown his own Hubris made him think his lies were truth until the IFS laughed at his numbers. Now he's off to blame others for his indefensible attack on the disabled and they're not taking the blame like they're supposed to.
IDS will pin this firmly on oik, it's all him, he's a tyrant disconnected from real people. You can't trust these RemaIN people they're all scum.
What odds on President Trump, PM Johnson and President Le Pen?
When was the last time these two were both right about something? The impact that meteor would have on the dinosaurs?
(As an aside, the FDP is nothing like the LibDems - except in poll shares. The FDP is business friendly, libertarian party.)
Iain Duncan Smith will know that. So if he retains cabinet ambitions, he's going to be joining the plotters.
Wasn't IDS one of the original Major's bastards? Bloody heckers like, IDS is a bigger bastard than I could have ever have imagined.
The Tories relationship to Europe is akin to crystal meth. They are addicted to it, and it sends them completely bonkers.
Will it be a bloodletting that lasts for years? Hard to say of course, but unless it's a massive win for Leave or a massive win for Remain (with Tory voters a lot less split than seems the case) it's hard to see how one side will be overwhelming enough to win it quickly.
If this has been done right, and is about the leadership, there will be another resignation tomorrow.
May, if she feels up for the fight? Gove?
I've no idea of the history, but from the tone I think I know which side Nelson will be on in any IDS vs Osborne battle.
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/710940402224926720
I take credit for being intelligent enough to nick it mind!
My money is on Priti Patel (if there was such a market)
IDS seems to be saying that's bollocks, what we've done on deficit reduction is enough, so it's time to stop.
We're all Corbynites now.
A bad few days for team blue.