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  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Winter is coming for the pensioners though, from Project Fear.

    Look out for pensions, saga holidays, werthers originals, bus passes and phone calls from your grandchildren all being under existential threat if we Leave.

    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evening. Is your icon John Snow really going to be alive and a player? I vaguely recall muttering I would not read the next book if he wasn't. Too few Starks left.

    Winter is coming has entered the language in a way that is truly remarkable. Mind you half of the Godfather script did the same.
    I believe Melisandre will revive Jon by means of necrophilia.
    Interesting.

    My son is studying Mary Queen of Scots and the murder of Lord Darnley at the moment. Certainly sets the mood with absurd quantities of sex, conspiracy and brutality. Bothwell ended up chained to a post in a dungeon until he went mad and died. Rizzio , possibly the queens lover and possibly father of James, was stabbed 50 odd times in front of the queen when she was 7 months pregnant with a view to inducing a miscarriage. Darnley was strangled in the garden whilst trying to escape his house which was in the process of being blown up. The list of suspects included the Queen who was already bonking Bothwell and married him 3 months later. Elizabeth had more spies and nobles in her pocket than you could shake a stick at.

    Makes GOT seem a bit tame in places. And most the actors were young enough to think the EU is a good idea. Bothwell was only 21 when he died. Mary came south to seek refuge from Elizabeth (proving her stupidity beyond doubt)!when she was 24.

    Our history is more exciting than most of its teachers want to let on.
    Our War of the Roses almost makes GOT look tame.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,630
    edited March 2016

    Kate Andrews, of the Institute of Economic Affairs, says experience in other countries has shown "a sugar tax is incredibly regressive".

    She tells the BBC: "It's disproportionately going to affect the people at the bottom, people who are poor on low incomes."

    One could say the same about taxes on cigarettes. The solution is simple, which is to avoid these products if you don't wish to pay the taxes.

    The new tax will put 8p on a can of Coke or Red Bull - surely it would be way more effective (at reducing consumption, rather than raising revenue) if it put 80p on a can, doubling the price.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    That's why I'm determined to Remain. My children and grandchildren (those old enough to have an opinion) are solidly for Remain.

    So even if I wasn't for Remain anyway I owe it to them to vote Remain. It's their future.
    And in their future the chances are they will change their views and then wish that Leave had won.

    As we get older clearly we get more sensible.
    No, like, apparently, some here, they'll look back to the equivalent of a "sunny" time of their youth. In my case I was young and strong, the world was my hamster and 33% of the world map was coloured red.
    Except that it wasn't that good in many respects.
    I am afraid you are in denial. All the polling evidence is that as people get older they get less and less enamored of the EU. Well, the sensible ones anyway.
    I'm not in denial. The EU has many problems, but becoming part of a Free Tade Area consisting of the UK, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands isn't the best alternative.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,944
    O/T: Christopher Biggins is being quoted as a British 'analyst' terrified of the prospect of President Trump.

    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/its-absolutely-terrifying-british-tv-hosts-shudder-for-our-world-after-realizing-trump-could-win/
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Winter is coming for the pensioners though, from Project Fear.

    Look out for pensions, saga holidays, werthers originals, bus passes and phone calls from your grandchildren all being under existential threat if we Leave.

    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evening. Is your icon John Snow really going to be alive and a player? I vaguely recall muttering I would not read the next book if he wasn't. Too few Starks left.

    Winter is coming has entered the language in a way that is truly remarkable. Mind you half of the Godfather script did the same.
    I believe Melisandre will revive Jon by means of necrophilia.
    Interesting.

    My son is studying Mary Queen of Scots and the murder of Lord Darnley at the moment. Certainly sets the mood with absurd quantities of sex, conspiracy and brutality. Bothwell ended up chained to a post in a dungeon until he went mad and died. Rizzio , possibly the queens lover and possibly father of James, was stabbed 50 odd times in front of the queen when she was 7 months pregnant with a view to inducing a miscarriage. Darnley was strangled in the garden whilst trying to escape his house which was in the process of being blown up. The list of suspects included the Queen who was already bonking Bothwell and married him 3 months later. Elizabeth had more spies and nobles in her pocket than you could shake a stick at.

    Makes GOT seem a bit tame in places. And most the actors were young enough to think the EU is a good idea. Bothwell was only 21 when he died. Mary came south to seek refuge from Elizabeth (proving her stupidity beyond doubt)!when she was 24.

    Our history is more exciting than most of its teachers want to let on.
    In 1603, James becomes Elizabeth's successor - but she had killed his mother. Dr Freud would have had a field day.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756
    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Winter is coming for the pensioners though, from Project Fear.

    Look out for pensions, saga holidays, werthers originals, bus passes and phone calls from your grandchildren all being under existential threat if we Leave.

    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evening. Is your icon John Snow really going to be alive and a player? I vaguely recall muttering I would not read the next book if he wasn't. Too few Starks left.

    Winter is coming has entered the language in a way that is truly remarkable. Mind you half of the Godfather script did the same.
    I believe Melisandre will revive Jon by means of necrophilia.
    Interesting.

    My son is studying Mary Queen of Scots and the murder of Lord Darnley at the moment. Certainly sets the mood with absurd quantities of sex, conspiracy and brutality. Bothwell ended up chained to a post in a dungeon until he went mad and died. Rizzio , possibly the queens lover and possibly father of James, was stabbed 50 odd times in front of the queen when she was 7 months pregnant with a view to inducing a miscarriage. Darnley was strangled in the garden whilst trying to escape his house which was in the process of being blown up. The list of suspects included the Queen who was already bonking Bothwell and married him 3 months later. Elizabeth had more spies and nobles in her pocket than you could shake a stick at.

    Makes GOT seem a bit tame in places. And most the actors were young enough to think the EU is a good idea. Bothwell was only 21 when he died. Mary came south to seek refuge from Elizabeth (proving her stupidity beyond doubt)!when she was 24.

    Our history is more exciting than most of its teachers want to let on.
    Scottish history is far more brutal than English history. As is Italian history.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Winter is coming for the pensioners though, from Project Fear.

    Look out for pensions, saga holidays, werthers originals, bus passes and phone calls from your grandchildren all being under existential threat if we Leave.

    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evening. Is your icon John Snow really going to be alive and a player? I vaguely recall muttering I would not read the next book if he wasn't. Too few Starks left.

    Winter is coming has entered the language in a way that is truly remarkable. Mind you half of the Godfather script did the same.
    I believe Melisandre will revive Jon by means of necrophilia.
    Interesting.


    Makes GOT seem a bit tame in places. And most the actors were young enough to think the EU is a good idea. Bothwell was only 21 when he died. Mary came south to seek refuge from Elizabeth (proving her stupidity beyond doubt)!when she was 24.

    Our history is more exciting than most of its teachers want to let on.
    Our War of the Roses almost makes GOT look tame.
    Didn't Elizabeth I ask Wolsingham to ensure the Babington plotters had such a cruel death that no-one would ever be tempted to emulate them?

    And, a century later Judge Jeffreys was such a byword for cruelty that his descendants two generations later couldn't visit the West Country.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,728

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    That's why I'm determined to Remain. My children and grandchildren (those old enough to have an opinion) are solidly for Remain.

    So even if I wasn't for Remain anyway I owe it to them to vote Remain. It's their future.
    And in their future the chances are they will change their views and then wish that Leave had won.

    As we get older clearly we get more sensible.
    No, like, apparently, some here, they'll look back to the equivalent of a "sunny" time of their youth. In my case I was young and strong, the world was my hamster and 33% of the world map was coloured red.
    Except that it wasn't that good in many respects.
    I am afraid you are in denial. All the polling evidence is that as people get older they get less and less enamored of the EU. Well, the sensible ones anyway.
    I'm not in denial. The EU has many problems, but becoming part of a Free Tade Area consisting of the UK, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands isn't the best alternative.
    Straw man attack. No one has ever suggested that. The only reason you have to resort to such idiotic comments is that you have no reasoned or logical response to make. It is a typical Europhile response and exposes the paucity of your arguments
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    Ouch.

    Sajid Javid just got mauled on C4 news over his EU U-turn and what he knew about tax avoidance at Deutsche Bank.

    Here's who's out: May, Javid, and Hammond

    Here's who's in: Gove, Patel and a plethora of the 2015 intake
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    Cheltenham Diary ladies day

    A nice day out with my folks to Prestbury Park

    As for the betting....

    Yanworth -20
    No more heroes -20
    Roi des francs -5/-5
    Rock the kasbah -10/-10
    Our Thomas -2/-2
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789
    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Building a better yesterday, then. I wouldn't be surprised to see the ghost of Chamberlain and empire free trade raising its head.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756
    dr_spyn said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Winter is coming for the pensioners though, from Project Fear.

    Look out for pensions, saga holidays, werthers originals, bus passes and phone calls from your grandchildren all being under existential threat if we Leave.

    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evening. Is your icon John Snow really going to be alive and a player? I vaguely recall muttering I would not read the next book if he wasn't. Too few Starks left.

    Winter is coming has entered the language in a way that is truly remarkable. Mind you half of the Godfather script did the same.
    I believe Melisandre will revive Jon by means of necrophilia.
    Interesting.

    My son is studying Mary Queen of Scots and the murder of Lord Darnley at the moment. Certainly sets the mood with absurd quantities of sex, conspiracy and brutality. Bothwell ended up chained to a post in a dungeon until he went mad and died. Rizzio , possibly the queens lover and possibly father of James, was stabbed 50 odd times in front of the queen when she was 7 months pregnant with a view to inducing a miscarriage. Darnley was strangled in the garden whilst

    Makes GOT seem a bit tame in places. And most the actors were young enough to think the EU is a good idea. Bothwell was only 21 when he died. Mary came south to seek refuge from Elizabeth (proving her stupidity beyond doubt)!when she was 24.

    Our history is more exciting than most of its teachers want to let on.
    In 1603, James becomes Elizabeth's successor - but she had killed his mother. Dr Freud would have had a field day.
    James seems to have been relatively unconcerned about the death of his mother.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896
    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Winter is coming for the pensioners though, from Project Fear.

    Look out for pensions, saga holidays, werthers originals, bus passes and phone calls from your grandchildren all being under existential threat if we Leave.

    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evening. Is your icon John Snow really going to be alive and a player? I vaguely recall muttering I would not read the next book if he wasn't. Too few Starks left.

    Winter is coming has entered the language in a way that is truly remarkable. Mind you half of the Godfather script did the same.
    I believe Melisandre will revive Jon by means of necrophilia.
    Interesting.


    Makes GOT seem a bit tame in places. And most the actors were young enough to think the EU is a good idea. Bothwell was only 21 when he died. Mary came south to seek refuge from Elizabeth (proving her stupidity beyond doubt)!when she was 24.

    Our history is more exciting than most of its teachers want to let on.
    Scottish history is far more brutal than English history. As is Italian history.
    When was the last burning at the stake in Scotland?
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Winter is coming for the pensioners though, from Project Fear.

    Look out for pensions, saga holidays, werthers originals, bus passes and phone calls from your grandchildren all being under existential threat if we Leave.

    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evening. Is your icon John Snow really going to be alive and a player? I vaguely recall muttering I would not read the next book if he wasn't. Too few Starks left.

    Winter is coming has entered the language in a way that is truly remarkable. Mind you half of the Godfather script did the same.
    First, let me be pedantic and say the name of my icon is named Jon, not John. I love the show but the books are better as I let my imagination soar. The only thing that could possibly beat it is if the Wheel of Time could be made into a show. Imagine, a story that would last 14 years on TV.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,630

    O/T: Christopher Biggins is being quoted as a British 'analyst' terrified of the prospect of President Trump.

    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/its-absolutely-terrifying-british-tv-hosts-shudder-for-our-world-after-realizing-trump-could-win/

    That's funny. Shows how most of these new online 'news' outlets are just clickbait with little journalistic input. One minute's research would have told them that their 'analyst' was, quite literally, a clown!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896
    edited March 2016

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    That's why I'm determined to Remain. My children and grandchildren (those old enough to have an opinion) are solidly for Remain.

    So even if I wasn't for Remain anyway I owe it to them to vote Remain. It's their future.
    And in their future the chances are they will change their views and then wish that Leave had won.

    As we get older clearly we get more sensible.
    No, like, apparently, some here, they'll look back to the equivalent of a "sunny" time of their youth. In my case I was young and strong, the world was my hamster and 33% of the world map was coloured red.
    Except that it wasn't that good in many respects.
    I am afraid you are in denial. All the polling evidence is that as people get older they get less and less enamored of the EU. Well, the sensible ones anyway.
    I'm not in denial. The EU has many problems, but becoming part of a Free Tade Area consisting of the UK, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands isn't the best alternative.
    Straw man attack. No one has ever suggested that. The only reason you have to resort to such idiotic comments is that you have no reasoned or logical response to make. It is a typical Europhile response and exposes the paucity of your arguments
    If one of the reasons for leaving is border control, then EEA/EFTA isn't a good arguement either. Sovereignty-wise we'd be worse of in those, too.

    Edited for spelling.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,865
    Sean_F said:

    dr_spyn said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Winter is coming for the pensioners though, from Project Fear.

    Look out for pensions, saga holidays, werthers originals, bus passes and phone calls from your grandchildren all being under existential threat if we Leave.

    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evening. Is your icon John Snow really going to be alive and a player? I vaguely recall muttering I would not read the next book if he wasn't. Too few Starks left.

    Winter is coming has entered the language in a way that is truly remarkable. Mind you half of the Godfather script did the same.
    I believe Melisandre will revive Jon by means of necrophilia.
    Inte

    Makes GOT seem a bit tame in places. And most the actors were young enough to think the EU is a good idea. Bothwell was only 21 when he died. Mary came south to seek refuge from Elizabeth (proving her stupidity beyond doubt)!when she was 24.

    Our history is more exciting than most of its teachers want to let on.
    In 1603, James becomes Elizabeth's successor - but she had killed his mother. Dr Freud would have had a field day.
    James seems to have been relatively unconcerned about the death of his mother.
    For all people give John crap for attempting usurpation, monarchs in general seem remarkably practical when it comes overthrowing or killing relatives, or working with those who did it.

    If they were around today I suspect they'd think everyone but the North Korean and australian leaderships lacked appropriate ruthlessness.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,249
    dr_spyn said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Winter is coming for the pensioners though, from Project Fear.

    Look out for pensions, saga holidays, werthers originals, bus passes and phone calls from your grandchildren all being under existential threat if we Leave.

    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evening. Is your icon John Snow really going to be alive and a player? I vaguely recall muttering I would not read the next book if he wasn't. Too few Starks left.

    Winter is coming has entered the language in a way that is truly remarkable. Mind you half of the Godfather script did the same.
    I believe Melisandre will revive Jon by means of necrophilia.
    Interesting.

    My son is studying Mary Queen of Scots and the murder of Lord Darnley at the moment. Certainly sets the mood with absurd quantities of sex, conspiracy and brutality. Bothwell ended up chained to a post in a dungeon until he went mad and died. Rizzio , possibly the queens lover and possibly father of James, was stabbed 50 odd times in front of the queen when she was 7 months pregnant with a view to inducing a miscarriage. Darnley was strangled in the garden whilst trying to escape his house which was in the process of being blown up. The list of suspects included the Queen who was already bonking Bothwell and married him 3 months later. Elizabeth had more spies and nobles in her pocket than you could shake a stick at.

    Makes GOT seem a bit tame in places. And most the actors were young enough to think the EU is a good idea. Bothwell was only 21 when he died. Mary came south to seek refuge from Elizabeth (proving her stupidity beyond doubt)!when she was 24.

    Our history is more exciting than most of its teachers want to let on.
    In 1603, James becomes Elizabeth's successor - but she had killed his mother. Dr Freud would have had a field day.
    Yep. No wonder he kept his head down for most of his reign. At least it was on his shoulders.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    Pulpstar said:

    Cheltenham Diary ladies day

    A nice day out with my folks to Prestbury Park

    As for the betting....

    Yanworth -20
    No more heroes -20
    Roi des francs -5/-5
    Rock the kasbah -10/-10
    Our Thomas -2/-2

    I would have so backed Rock the Kasbah.
  • Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Winter is coming for the pensioners though, from Project Fear.

    Look out for pensions, saga holidays, werthers originals, bus passes and phone calls from your grandchildren all being under existential threat if we Leave.

    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evening. Is your icon John Snow really going to be alive and a player? I vaguely recall muttering I would not read the next book if he wasn't. Too few Starks left.

    Winter is coming has entered the language in a way that is truly remarkable. Mind you half of the Godfather script did the same.
    I believe Melisandre will revive Jon by means of necrophilia.
    Interesting.


    Makes GOT seem a bit tame in places. And most the actors were young enough to think the EU is a good idea. Bothwell was only 21 when he died. Mary came south to seek refuge from Elizabeth (proving her stupidity beyond doubt)!when she was 24.

    Our history is more exciting than most of its teachers want to let on.
    Scottish history is far more brutal than English history. As is Italian history.
    When was the last burning at the stake in Scotland?
    The last witch burning in Paisley took place in 1967 (sorry, 1697!)
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,301
    Sean_F said:

    dr_spyn said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Winter is coming for the pensioners though, from Project Fear.

    Look out for pensions, saga holidays, werthers originals, bus passes and phone calls from your grandchildren all being under existential threat if we Leave.

    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evening. Is your icon John Snow really going to be alive and a player? I vaguely recall muttering I would not read the next book if he wasn't. Too few Starks left.

    Winter is coming has entered the language in a way that is truly remarkable. Mind you half of the Godfather script did the same.
    I believe Melisandre will revive Jon by means of necrophilia.
    Interesting.

    My son is studying Mary Queen of Scots and the murder of Lord Darnley at the moment. Certainly sets the mood with absurd quantities of sex, conspiracy and brutality. Bothwell ended up chained to a post in a dungeon until he went mad and died. Rizzio , possibly the queens lover and possibly father of James, was stabbed 50 odd times in front of the queen when she was 7 months pregnant with a view to inducing a miscarriage. Darnley was strangled in the garden whilst

    Makes GOT seem a bit tame in places. And most the actors were young enough to think the EU is a good idea. Bothwell was only 21 when he died. Mary came south to seek refuge from Elizabeth (proving her stupidity beyond doubt)!when she was 24.

    Our history is more exciting than most of its teachers want to let on.
    In 1603, James becomes Elizabeth's successor - but she had killed his mother. Dr Freud would have had a field day.
    James seems to have been relatively unconcerned about the death of his mother.
    Just been looking up on the deaths of some of the other Scottish Kings. Burst cannon, assassination, killed in battle.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,865
    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Winter is coming for the pensioners though, from Project Fear.

    Look out for pensions, saga holidays, werthers originals, bus passes and phone calls from your grandchildren all being under existential threat if we Leave.

    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evsame.
    First, let me be pedantic and say the name of my icon is named Jon, not John. I love the show but the books are better as I let my imagination soar. The only thing that could possibly beat it is if the Wheel of Time could be made into a show. Imagine, a story that would last 14 years on TV.
    You're thinking one book a season? Ambitious

    PS Though I suppose the last one was essentially nothing but the climax.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,714
    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Winter is coming for the pensioners though, from Project Fear.

    Look out for pensions, saga holidays, werthers originals, bus passes and phone calls from your grandchildren all being under existential threat if we Leave.

    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evening. Is your icon John Snow really going to be alive and a player? I vaguely recall muttering I would not read the next book if he wasn't. Too few Starks left.

    Winter is coming has entered the language in a way that is truly remarkable. Mind you half of the Godfather script did the same.
    I believe Melisandre will revive Jon by means of necrophilia.
    Interesting.

    My son is studying Mary Queen of Scots and the murder of Lord Darnley at the moment. Certainly sets the mood with absurd quantities of sex, conspiracy and brutality. Bothwell ended up chained to a post in a dungeon until he went mad and died. Rizzio , possibly the queens lover and possibly father of James, was stabbed 50 odd times in front of the queen when she was 7 months pregnant with a view to inducing a miscarriage. Darnley was strangled in the garden whilst trying to escape his house which was in the process of being blown up. The list of suspects included the Queen who was already bonking Bothwell and married him 3 months later. Elizabeth had more spies and nobles in her pocket than you could shake a stick at.

    Makes GOT seem a bit tame in places. And most the actors were young enough to think the EU is a good idea. Bothwell was only 21 when he died. Mary came south to seek refuge from Elizabeth (proving her stupidity beyond doubt)!when she was 24.

    Our history is more exciting than most of its teachers want to let on.
    Just an average night in Dundee isn't it ?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    DavidL said:

    dr_spyn said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Winter is coming for the pensioners though, from Project Fear.

    Look out for pensions, saga holidays, werthers originals, bus passes and phone calls from your grandchildren all being under existential threat if we Leave.

    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evening. Is your icon John Snow really going to be alive and a player? I vaguely recall muttering I would not read the next book if he wasn't. Too few Starks left.

    Winter is coming has entered the language in a way that is truly remarkable. Mind you half of the Godfather script did the same.
    I believe Melisandre will revive Jon by means of necrophilia.
    Interesting.

    My son is studying Mary Queen of Scots and the murder of Lord Darnley at the moment. Certainly sets the mood with absurd quantities of sex, conspiracy and brutality. Bothwell ended up chained to a post in a dungeon until he went mad and died. Rizzio , possibly the queens lover and possibly father of James, was stabbed 50 odd times in front of the queen when she was 7 months pregnant with a view to inducing a miscarriage. Darnley was strangled in the garden whilst trying to escape his house which was in the process of being blown up. The list of suspects included the Queen who was already bonking Bothwell and married him 3 months later. Elizabeth had more spies and nobles in her pocket than you could shake a stick at.

    Makes GOT seem a bit tame in places. And most the actors were young enough to think the EU is a good idea. Bothwell was only 21 when he died. Mary came south to seek refuge from Elizabeth (proving her stupidity beyond doubt)!when she was 24.

    Our history is more exciting than most of its teachers want to let on.
    In 1603, James becomes Elizabeth's successor - but she had killed his mother. Dr Freud would have had a field day.
    Yep. No wonder he kept his head down for most of his reign. At least it was on his shoulders.
    Unlike his son.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,944

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Winter is coming for the pensioners though, from Project Fear.

    Look out for pensions, saga holidays, werthers originals, bus passes and phone calls from your grandchildren all being under existential threat if we Leave.

    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evening. Is your icon John Snow really going to be alive and a player? I vaguely recall muttering I would not read the next book if he wasn't. Too few Starks left.

    Winter is coming has entered the language in a way that is truly remarkable. Mind you half of the Godfather script did the same.
    I believe Melisandre will revive Jon by means of necrophilia.
    Interesting.


    Makes GOT seem a bit tame in places. And most the actors were young enough to think the EU is a good idea. Bothwell was only 21 when he died. Mary came south to seek refuge from Elizabeth (proving her stupidity beyond doubt)!when she was 24.

    Our history is more exciting than most of its teachers want to let on.
    Scottish history is far more brutal than English history. As is Italian history.
    When was the last burning at the stake in Scotland?
    2015?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Winter is coming for the pensioners though, from Project Fear.

    Look out for pensions, saga holidays, werthers originals, bus passes and phone calls from your grandchildren all being under existential threat if we Leave.

    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evening. Is your icon John Snow really going to be alive and a player? I vaguely recall muttering I would not read the next book if he wasn't. Too few Starks left.

    Winter is coming has entered the language in a way that is truly remarkable. Mind you half of the Godfather script did the same.
    I believe Melisandre will revive Jon by means of necrophilia.
    Interesting.


    Makes GOT seem a bit tame in places. And most the actors were young enough to think the EU is a good idea. Bothwell was only 21 when he died. Mary came south to seek refuge from Elizabeth (proving her stupidity beyond doubt)!when she was 24.

    Our history is more exciting than most of its teachers want to let on.
    Scottish history is far more brutal than English history. As is Italian history.
    When was the last burning at the stake in Scotland?
    Not enough burnings, beheadings and cruxifications these days, if you ask me.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    O/T: Christopher Biggins is being quoted as a British 'analyst' terrified of the prospect of President Trump.

    http://www.rawstory.com/2016/03/its-absolutely-terrifying-british-tv-hosts-shudder-for-our-world-after-realizing-trump-could-win/

    I hope they pronounced it anal-ist...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663

    Pulpstar said:

    Cheltenham Diary ladies day

    A nice day out with my folks to Prestbury Park

    As for the betting....

    Yanworth -20
    No more heroes -20
    Roi des francs -5/-5
    Rock the kasbah -10/-10
    Our Thomas -2/-2

    I would have so backed Rock the Kasbah.
    Rock the kasbah unfortunately didn't.

    Anyway fortunately for me, I believe in fairy tales and put £50 each way on Sprinter Sacre about a week ago :D
    To be there seeing him tank up the hill was simply amazing. The bet return was pleasing too :p
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,262
    kle4 said:

    Sean_F said:

    dr_spyn said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Winter is coming for the pensioners though, from Project Fear.

    Look out for pensions, saga holidays, werthers originals, bus passes and phone calls from your grandchildren all being under existential threat if we Leave.

    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evening. Is your icon John Snow really going to be alive and a player? I vaguely recall muttering I would not read the next book if he wasn't. Too few Starks left.

    Winter is coming has entered the language in a way that is truly remarkable. Mind you half of the Godfather script did the same.
    I believe Melisandre will revive Jon by means of necrophilia.
    Inte

    Makes GOT seem a bit tame in places. And most the actors were young enough to think the EU is a good idea. Bothwell was only 21 when he died. Mary came south to seek refuge from Elizabeth (proving her stupidity beyond doubt)!when she was 24.

    Our history is more exciting than most of its teachers want to let on.
    In 1603, James becomes Elizabeth's successor - but she had killed his mother. Dr Freud would have had a field day.
    James seems to have been relatively unconcerned about the death of his mother.
    For all people give John crap for attempting usurpation, monarchs in general seem remarkably practical when it comes overthrowing or killing relatives, or working with those who did it.

    If they were around today I suspect they'd think everyone but the North Korean and australian leaderships lacked appropriate ruthlessness.
    In a world of hereditary monarchs, with absolute power, murdering rivals was simply how politics was done back then.
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268
    If the UK left, the EU would have a smaller GDP than the USA.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,249
    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Winter is coming for the pensioners though, from Project Fear.

    Look out for pensions, saga holidays, werthers originals, bus passes and phone calls from your grandchildren all being under existential threat if we Leave.

    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evening. Is your icon John Snow really going to be alive and a player? I vaguely recall muttering I would not read the next book if he wasn't. Too few Starks left.

    Winter is coming has entered the language in a way that is truly remarkable. Mind you half of the Godfather script did the same.
    First, let me be pedantic and say the name of my icon is named Jon, not John. I love the show but the books are better as I let my imagination soar. The only thing that could possibly beat it is if the Wheel of Time could be made into a show. Imagine, a story that would last 14 years on TV.
    Embarrassed about Jon. I got half way through Wheel of Time and got tired. I must go back a book or 2 and start with some new momentum.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756
    dr_spyn said:

    Sean_F said:

    dr_spyn said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.


    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evening. Is your icon John Snow really going to be alive and a player? I vaguely recall muttering I would not read the next book if he wasn't. Too few Starks left.

    Winter is coming has entered the language in a way that is truly remarkable. Mind you half of the Godfather script did the same.
    I believe Melisandre will revive Jon by means of necrophilia.
    Interesting.

    My son is studying Mary Queen of Scots and the murder of Lord Darnley at the moment. Certainly sets the mood with absurd quantities of sex, conspiracy and brutality. Bothwell ended up chained to a post in a dungeon until he went mad and died. Rizzio , possibly the queens lover and possibly father of James, was stabbed 50 odd times in front of the queen when she was 7 months pregnant with a view to inducing a miscarriage. Darnley was strangled in the garden whilst

    Makes GOT seem a bit tame in places. And most the actors were young enough to think the EU is a good idea. Bothwell was only 21 when he died. Mary came south to seek refuge from Elizabeth (proving her stupidity beyond doubt)!when she was 24.

    Our history is more exciting than most of its teachers want to let on.
    In 1603, James becomes Elizabeth's successor - but she had killed his mother. Dr Freud would have had a field day.
    James seems to have been relatively unconcerned about the death of his mother.
    Just been looking up on the deaths of some of the other Scottish Kings. Burst cannon, assassination, killed in battle.
    James V was a nice guy. He had Lady Janet Douglas burned alive on false charges of witchcraft, because he coveted Glamis Castle - and forced her young son to watch.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Winter is coming for the pensioners though, from Project Fear.

    Look out for pensions, saga holidays, werthers originals, bus passes and phone calls from your grandchildren all being under existential threat if we Leave.

    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evening. Is your icon John Snow really going to be alive and a player? I vaguely recall muttering I would not read the next book if he wasn't. Too few Starks left.

    Winter is coming has entered the language in a way that is truly remarkable. Mind you half of the Godfather script did the same.
    I believe Melisandre will revive Jon by means of necrophilia.
    Interesting.


    Makes GOT seem a bit tame in places. And most the actors were young enough to think the EU is a good idea. Bothwell was only 21 when he died. Mary came south to seek refuge from Elizabeth (proving her stupidity beyond doubt)!when she was 24.

    Our history is more exciting than most of its teachers want to let on.
    Scottish history is far more brutal than English history. As is Italian history.
    When was the last burning at the stake in Scotland?
    Not enough burnings, beheadings and cruxifications these days, if you ask me.
    Radical Islamist!!!!!
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Winter is coming for the pensioners though, from Project Fear.

    Look out for pensions, saga holidays, werthers originals, bus passes and phone calls from your grandchildren all being under existential threat if we Leave.

    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evening. Is your icon John Snow really going to be alive and a player? I vaguely recall muttering I would not read the next book if he wasn't. Too few Starks left.

    Winter is coming has entered the language in a way that is truly remarkable. Mind you half of the Godfather script did the same.
    I believe Melisandre will revive Jon by means of necrophilia.
    Interesting.

    My son is studying Mary Queen of Scots and the murder of Lord Darnley at the moment. Certainly sets the mood with absurd quantities of sex, conspiracy and brutality. Bothwell ended up chained to a post in a dungeon until he went mad and died. Rizzio , possibly the queens lover and possibly father of James, was stabbed 50 odd times in front of the queen when she was 7 months pregnant with a view to inducing a miscarriage. Darnley was strangled in the garden whilst trying to escape his house which was in the process of being blown up. The list of suspects included the Queen who was already bonking Bothwell and married him 3 months later. Elizabeth had more spies and nobles in her pocket than you could shake a stick at.

    Makes GOT seem a bit tame in places. And most the actors were young enough to think the EU is a good idea. Bothwell was only 21 when he died. Mary came south to seek refuge from Elizabeth (proving her stupidity beyond doubt)!when she was 24.

    Our history is more exciting than most of its teachers want to let on.
    George R R Martin has recently said that he got his idea for the Red Wedding from Scottish medieval history.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,249

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Winter is coming for the pensioners though, from Project Fear.

    Look out for pensions, saga holidays, werthers originals, bus passes and phone calls from your grandchildren all being under existential threat if we Leave.

    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evening. Is your icon John Snow really going to be alive and a player? I vaguely recall muttering I would not read the next book if he wasn't. Too few Starks left.

    Winter is coming has entered the language in a way that is truly remarkable. Mind you half of the Godfather script did the same.
    I believe Melisandre will revive Jon by means of necrophilia.
    Interesting.


    Makes GOT seem a bit tame in places. And most the actors were young enough to think the EU is a good idea. Bothwell was only 21 when he died. Mary came south to seek refuge from Elizabeth (proving her stupidity beyond doubt)!when she was 24.

    Our history is more exciting than most of its teachers want to let on.
    Scottish history is far more brutal than English history. As is Italian history.
    When was the last burning at the stake in Scotland?
    The last witch burning in Paisley took place in 1967 (sorry, 1697!)
    Only because Maggie got out in time.
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    That's why I'm determined to Remain. My children and grandchildren (those old enough to have an opinion) are solidly for Remain.

    So even if I wasn't for Remain anyway I owe it to them to vote Remain. It's their future.
    And in their future the chances are they will change their views and then wish that Leave had won.

    As we get older clearly we get more sensible.
    No, like, apparently, some here, they'll look back to the equivalent of a "sunny" time of their youth. In my case I was young and strong, the world was my hamster and 33% of the world map was coloured red.
    Except that it wasn't that good in many respects.
    I am afraid you are in denial. All the polling evidence is that as people get older they get less and less enamored of the EU. Well, the sensible ones anyway.
    I'm not in denial. The EU has many problems, but becoming part of a Free Tade Area consisting of the UK, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands isn't the best alternative.
    Which is why we would sign free trade deals with many other countries.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,249
    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Winter is coming for the pensioners though, from Project Fear.

    Look out for pensions, saga holidays, werthers originals, bus passes and phone calls from your grandchildren all being under existential threat if we Leave.

    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evening. Is your icon John Snow really going to be alive and a player? I vaguely recall muttering I would not read the next book if he wasn't. Too few Starks left.

    Winter is coming has entered the language in a way that is truly remarkable. Mind you half of the Godfather script did the same.
    I believe Melisandre will revive Jon by means of necrophilia.
    Interesting.

    My son is studying Mary Queen of Scots and the murder of Lord Darnley at the moment. Certainly sets the mood with absurd quantities of sex, conspiracy and brutality. Bothwell ended up chained to a post in a dungeon until he went mad and died. Rizzio , possibly the queens lover and possibly father of James, was stabbed 50 odd times in front of the queen when she was 7 months pregnant with a view to inducing a miscarriage. Darnley was strangled in the garden whilst trying to escape his house which was in the process of being blown up. The list of suspects included the Queen who was already bonking Bothwell and married him 3 months later. Elizabeth had more spies and nobles in her pocket than you could shake a stick at.

    Makes GOT seem a bit tame in places. And most the actors were young enough to think the EU is a good idea. Bothwell was only 21 when he died. Mary came south to seek refuge from Elizabeth (proving her stupidity beyond doubt)!when she was 24.

    Our history is more exciting than most of its teachers want to let on.
    George R R Martin has recently said that he got his idea for the Red Wedding from Scottish medieval history.
    Didn't know that. My son will be delighted.
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268

    Kate Andrews, of the Institute of Economic Affairs, says experience in other countries has shown "a sugar tax is incredibly regressive".

    She tells the BBC: "It's disproportionately going to affect the people at the bottom, people who are poor on low incomes."

    You could eliminate VAT on healthy foods to make up for it.

    Oh yeah, the EU bans us from doing such a sensible thing.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,249

    Kate Andrews, of the Institute of Economic Affairs, says experience in other countries has shown "a sugar tax is incredibly regressive".

    She tells the BBC: "It's disproportionately going to affect the people at the bottom, people who are poor on low incomes."

    You could eliminate VAT on healthy foods to make up for it.

    Oh yeah, the EU bans us from doing such a sensible thing.
    We don't pay VAT on food, unless it is heated up or in a restaurant.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    That's why I'm determined to Remain. My children and grandchildren (those old enough to have an opinion) are solidly for Remain.

    So even if I wasn't for Remain anyway I owe it to them to vote Remain. It's their future.
    And in their future the chances are they will change their views and then wish that Leave had won.

    As we get older clearly we get more sensible.
    No, like, apparently, some here, they'll look back to the equivalent of a "sunny" time of their youth. In my case I was young and strong, the world was my hamster and 33% of the world map was coloured red.
    Except that it wasn't that good in many respects.
    I am afraid you are in denial. All the polling evidence is that as people get older they get less and less enamored of the EU. Well, the sensible ones anyway.
    I'm not in denial. The EU has many problems, but becoming part of a Free Tade Area consisting of the UK, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands isn't the best alternative.
    Which is why we would sign free trade deals with many other countries.
    Possibly, eventually.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756
    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    Sean_F said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Winter is coming for the pensioners though, from Project Fear.

    Look out for pensions, saga holidays, werthers originals, bus passes and phone calls from your grandchildren all being under existential threat if we Leave.

    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evening. Is your icon John Snow really going to be alive and a player? I vaguely recall muttering I would not read the next book if he wasn't. Too few Starks left.

    Winter is coming has entered the language in a way that is truly remarkable. Mind you half of the Godfather script did the same.
    I believe Melisandre will revive Jon by means of necrophilia.
    Interesting.

    My son is studying Mary Queen of Scots and the murder of Lord Darnley at the moment. Certainly sets the mood with absurd quantities of sex, conspiracy and brutality. Bothwell ended up chained to a post in a dungeon until he went mad and died. Rizzio , possibly the queens lover and possibly father of James, was stabbed 50 odd times in front of the queen when she was 7 months pregnant with a view to inducing a miscarriage. Darnley was strangled in the garden whilst trying to escape his house which was in the process of being blown up. The list of suspects included the Queen who was already bonking Bothwell and married him 3 months later. Elizabeth had more spies and nobles in her pocket than you could shake a stick at.

    Makes GOT seem a bit tame in places. And most the actors were young enough to think the EU is a good idea. Bothwell was only 21 when he died. Mary came south to seek refuge from Elizabeth (proving her stupidity beyond doubt)!when she was 24.

    Our history is more exciting than most of its teachers want to let on.
    George R R Martin has recently said that he got his idea for the Red Wedding from Scottish medieval history.
    Didn't know that. My son will be delighted.
    The Black Dinner.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896

    Kate Andrews, of the Institute of Economic Affairs, says experience in other countries has shown "a sugar tax is incredibly regressive".

    She tells the BBC: "It's disproportionately going to affect the people at the bottom, people who are poor on low incomes."

    You could eliminate VAT on healthy foods to make up for it.

    Oh yeah, the EU bans us from doing such a sensible thing.

    Isn't food VAT free. (Yeah, I know wine isn't. Sadly.)
  • MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Winter is coming for the pensioners though, from Project Fear.

    Look out for pensions, saga holidays, werthers originals, bus passes and phone calls from your grandchildren all being under existential threat if we Leave.

    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evening. Is your icon John Snow really going to be alive and a player? I vaguely recall muttering I would not read the next book if he wasn't. Too few Starks left.

    Winter is coming has entered the language in a way that is truly remarkable. Mind you half of the Godfather script did the same.
    First, let me be pedantic and say the name of my icon is named Jon, not John. I love the show but the books are better as I let my imagination soar. The only thing that could possibly beat it is if the Wheel of Time could be made into a show. Imagine, a story that would last 14 years on TV.
    Embarrassed about Jon. I got half way through Wheel of Time and got tired. I must go back a book or 2 and start with some new momentum.
    The only way to read "Wheel" is to start from the beginning and follow every turn and twist of the story. It really is quite clever tale telling, with an amazing world background. I have read the series 5 times and every time I find something new to ponder on.
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268

    kle4 said:


    The Chancellor is extremely unlikely to survive a second recession in his job, considering there hasn't even been a first recession in his job yet.

    Immaterial, for the same reason people didn't seemingly react that much when official figures showed us going into, out of and then back into recession (before it later updates changed that too) - to most people it felt pretty much the same even if the percentage decimals went one way or another, what mattered was how they felt. Same now - if we continue to feel like crap, he will likely suffer, even if it is his first 'official' fall back into recession.
    It's not immaterial to expect economic journalists who are reporting on the budget to know such basic facts like when the last recession was.
    You place to much faith in the Wesminster bubble types. The Economist claimed the other week that CETA didn't cover financial services, when its one of the main chapters!!
    https://www.cigionline.org/sites/default/files/cigi_paper_no.91_web.pdf

    "In sum, CETA provisions found in chapter 15 are likely to have a marginal impact on the Canadian and European financial services sectors, for two reasons. First, these provisions closely follow those of GATS and its annex on financial services,16 of which Canada and the European Union are signatories. Second, although CETA provides the possibility for the free movement of financial services and the individuals who supply them, many regulatory and licensing requirements are likely to remain in place on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean once the agreement comes into force."
    Yes, I've read that. It definitely confirms it covers financial services, doesn't it? It says the main reason there won't be more impact is because GATS has already done so much for international trade in financial services between countries. It also says the main barrier to further integration was on Canadian side, who still have failed to align finance regulations between various provinces. That won't apply to UK obviously.
    No, it names two reasons why it will have a marginal impact. Don't just pick the one that suits you.

    And if you'd already read it and accept that it's going to have marginal impact, don't go promulgating bullshit about it being one of the main chapters.
    I mentioned both reasons. And the very paper you linked says "Financial services are an important component of the agreement".
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,865
    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    MikeK said:

    DavidL said:

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    Winter is coming for the pensioners though, from Project Fear.

    Look out for pensions, saga holidays, werthers originals, bus passes and phone calls from your grandchildren all being under existential threat if we Leave.

    One can only hope the older generation are made of strong stuff.
    So looking forward to GOT coming back.
    Me too. Enough of this faux gasping at a mediocre budget. Bring on Game of Thrones and let the Winds of Winter rage.

    Oh, and good evening to all.
    Evening. Is your icon John Snow really going to be alive and a player? I vaguely recall muttering I would not read the next book if he wasn't. Too few Starks left.

    Winter is coming has entered the language in a way that is truly remarkable. Mind you half of the Godfather script did the same.
    First, let me be pedantic and say the name of my icon is named Jon, not John. I love the show but the books are better as I let my imagination soar. The only thing that could possibly beat it is if the Wheel of Time could be made into a show. Imagine, a story that would last 14 years on TV.
    Embarrassed about Jon. I got half way through Wheel of Time and got tired. I must go back a book or 2 and start with some new momentum.
    The only way to read "Wheel" is to start from the beginning and follow every turn and twist of the story. It really is quite clever tale telling, with an amazing world background. I have read the series 5 times and every time I find something new to ponder on.
    I agree, but I always warn people 7-10 gets a little bogged down in the side details, as you have the core main characters, who at that point all have their own very extended retinues of supporting characters and plots. But vivid and well crafted, no question, a real favourite of mine.

    I've also now listened to the audio books of the series, which are well delivered too.

    Good night all.
  • GaiusGaius Posts: 227

    Gaius said:

    Sandpit said:

    Gaius said:

    This is pretty savage.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BDBS8bYGhWr/

    Trump is going to destroy Clinton.

    It's going to be a nasty, nasty campaign on both sides. There will be plenty more ads like that one.

    Trump will go very hard on Hillary and portray her as utterly corrupt. Hillary will play on the fears of Trump the man as being unfit and dangerous.

    I'd have thought that by November most Americans would wish they had a choice of someone else.

    From a purely betting perspective there has to be some value in Trump to win - unless he gets stitched up at the Convention.
    No, I don't think that will happen because you don't understand the psychology.

    The numerous scandals around the Clintons have been around for years with no result.

    As such Trump will merely allude to Clinton as being ill, and shrill anti-male. Trump appears presidental.

    Clinton can do one of two things, go easy on Trump in which case he wins by default, or

    go hard on Trump in which case he wins as she appears (mentally) ill, shrill and anti-male.

    As Clinton has never shown any ability at politics guess which one she will choose.

    Trump is going to win by a landslide.

    Trump, the man who spends him time insulting every other candidate and believes in imaginary New Jersey Muslims cheering 9/11, is presidential??
    Yes.

    This is why he leads in delegates at the moment.

  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268
    DavidL said:

    Kate Andrews, of the Institute of Economic Affairs, says experience in other countries has shown "a sugar tax is incredibly regressive".

    She tells the BBC: "It's disproportionately going to affect the people at the bottom, people who are poor on low incomes."

    You could eliminate VAT on healthy foods to make up for it.

    Oh yeah, the EU bans us from doing such a sensible thing.
    We don't pay VAT on food, unless it is heated up or in a restaurant.
    Not true. Things like cereal bars, rice cakes, mineral water are standard rated.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    That's why I'm determined to Remain. My children and grandchildren (those old enough to have an opinion) are solidly for Remain.

    So even if I wasn't for Remain anyway I owe it to them to vote Remain. It's their future.
    And in their future the chances are they will change their views and then wish that Leave had won.

    As we get older clearly we get more sensible.
    No, like, apparently, some here, they'll look back to the equivalent of a "sunny" time of their youth. In my case I was young and strong, the world was my hamster and 33% of the world map was coloured red.
    Except that it wasn't that good in many respects.
    I am afraid you are in denial. All the polling evidence is that as people get older they get less and less enamored of the EU. Well, the sensible ones anyway.
    I'm not in denial. The EU has many problems, but becoming part of a Free Tade Area consisting of the UK, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands isn't the best alternative.
    You are Anna Soubry and I claim my £5.
  • rogerhrogerh Posts: 282
    The changes in personal allowance are crafted to help the struggling middle classes.I calculate that the increase in the allowance from £11,000 to £11500 will give £100 to the standard rate tax payer and £200 to a 40% tax payer.That benefit is dwarfed by raising the level that 40% is paid by £2615 yielding a further £523.So its £100 gain for hard working people and for better off tax payers.One thing you can say about the Tories they look after their own well.
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268
    Gaius said:

    Gaius said:

    Sandpit said:

    Gaius said:

    This is pretty savage.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BDBS8bYGhWr/

    Trump is going to destroy Clinton.

    It's going to be a nasty, nasty campaign on both sides. There will be plenty more ads like that one.

    Trump will go very hard on Hillary and portray her as utterly corrupt. Hillary will play on the fears of Trump the man as being unfit and dangerous.

    I'd have thought that by November most Americans would wish they had a choice of someone else.

    From a purely betting perspective there has to be some value in Trump to win - unless he gets stitched up at the Convention.
    No, I don't think that will happen because you don't understand the psychology.

    The numerous scandals around the Clintons have been around for years with no result.

    As such Trump will merely allude to Clinton as being ill, and shrill anti-male. Trump appears presidental.

    Clinton can do one of two things, go easy on Trump in which case he wins by default, or

    go hard on Trump in which case he wins as she appears (mentally) ill, shrill and anti-male.

    As Clinton has never shown any ability at politics guess which one she will choose.

    Trump is going to win by a landslide.

    Trump, the man who spends him time insulting every other candidate and believes in imaginary New Jersey Muslims cheering 9/11, is presidential??
    Yes.

    This is why he leads in delegates at the moment.

    Only among the unhinged Republican electorate.
  • rogerhrogerh Posts: 282
    rogerh said:

    The changes in personal allowance are crafted to help the struggling middle classes.I calculate that the increase in the allowance from £11,000 to £11500 will give £100 to the standard rate tax payer and £200 to a 40% tax payer.That benefit is dwarfed by raising the level that 40% is paid by £2615 yielding a further £523.So its £100 gain for hard working people and £623 for better off tax payers.One thing you can say about the Tories they look after their own well.

  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited March 2016
  • PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited March 2016
    I've decided to try to lay off half of my Romney/Ryan stake @ 120/330

    Those odds probably represent fair value, IMO. ~2% combined for the nomination, ~1% POTUS.

    Anyway, there's a decent amount of liquidity available - at bookie beating prices - if anyone is interested in playing the GOP convention lottery.

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/#/politics/market/1.107373419
  • GaiusGaius Posts: 227

    RodCrosby said:

    Gaius said:

    Sandpit said:

    Gaius said:

    This is pretty savage.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BDBS8bYGhWr/

    Trump is going to destroy Clinton.

    It's going to be a nasty, nasty campaign on both sides. There will be plenty more ads like that one.

    Trump will go very hard on Hillary and portray her as utterly corrupt. Hillary will play on the fears of Trump the man as being unfit and dangerous.

    I'd have thought that by November most Americans would wish they had a choice of someone else.

    From a purely betting perspective there has to be some value in Trump to win - unless he gets stitched up at the Convention.
    No, I don't think that will happen because you don't understand the psychology.

    The numerous scandals around the Clintons have been around for years with no result.

    As such Trump will merely allude to Clinton as being ill, and shrill anti-male. Trump appears presidental.

    Clinton can do one of two things, go easy on Trump in which case he wins by default, or

    go hard on Trump in which case he wins as she appears (mentally) ill, shrill and anti-male.

    As Clinton has never shown any ability at politics guess which one she will choose.

    Trump is going to win by a landslide.

    Trump, the man who spends him time insulting every other candidate and believes in imaginary New Jersey Muslims cheering 9/11, is presidential??
    The electorate does not consist of a panel of Harvard wonks.
    You don't need to be a Harvard wonk to find Trump a bellicose clown. He'll lose badly among minorities (a third of the electorate), and struggle among white graduates (another third) and there won't be enough uneducated whites to see him through.
    Do you REALLY believe that.

    Consider this. The average black/hispanic has an IQ of about 85.

    They will hear Trump...wall...stopping illegals... and think "thats good for our jobs and wages"



  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited March 2016
    The history of Southern Upland Scots, the Border Reivers and the Debatable Land is a catalogue of awesomely awful stuff happening at fast forward.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896
    edited March 2016

    DavidL said:

    Kate Andrews, of the Institute of Economic Affairs, says experience in other countries has shown "a sugar tax is incredibly regressive".

    She tells the BBC: "It's disproportionately going to affect the people at the bottom, people who are poor on low incomes."

    You could eliminate VAT on healthy foods to make up for it.

    Oh yeah, the EU bans us from doing such a sensible thing.
    We don't pay VAT on food, unless it is heated up or in a restaurant.
    Not true. Things like cereal bars, rice cakes, mineral water are standard rated.
    There was a complicated case some years ago involving Jaffa cakes. Not sure about Eccles cakes though.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896
    Alistair said:

    The history of Southern Upland Scots, the Border Reivers and the Debatable Land is a catalogue of awesomely awful stuff happening at fast forward.


    I don't think the Islands were much better, were they?
  • GaiusGaius Posts: 227

    Gaius said:

    Gaius said:

    Sandpit said:

    Gaius said:

    This is pretty savage.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BDBS8bYGhWr/

    Trump is going to destroy Clinton.

    It's going to be a nasty, nasty campaign on both sides. There will be plenty more ads like that one.

    Trump will go very hard on Hillary and portray her as utterly corrupt. Hillary will play on the fears of Trump the man as being unfit and dangerous.

    I'd have thought that by November most Americans would wish they had a choice of someone else.

    From a purely betting perspective there has to be some value in Trump to win - unless he gets stitched up at the Convention.
    No, I don't think that will happen because you don't understand the psychology.

    The numerous scandals around the Clintons have been around for years with no result.

    As such Trump will merely allude to Clinton as being ill, and shrill anti-male. Trump appears presidental.

    Clinton can do one of two things, go easy on Trump in which case he wins by default, or

    go hard on Trump in which case he wins as she appears (mentally) ill, shrill and anti-male.

    As Clinton has never shown any ability at politics guess which one she will choose.

    Trump is going to win by a landslide.

    Trump, the man who spends him time insulting every other candidate and believes in imaginary New Jersey Muslims cheering 9/11, is presidential??
    Yes.

    This is why he leads in delegates at the moment.

    Only among the unhinged Republican electorate.
    The amount of people voting in the republican primaries has gone up dramatically.

    Trump is getting out the voters.

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896
    Gaius said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Gaius said:

    Sandpit said:

    Gaius said:

    This is pretty savage.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BDBS8bYGhWr/

    Trump is going to destroy Clinton.

    It's going to be a nasty, nasty campaign on both sides. There will be plenty more ads like that one.

    Trump will go very hard on Hillary and portray her as utterly corrupt. Hillary will play on the fears of Trump the man as being unfit and dangerous.

    I'd have thought that by November most Americans would wish they had a choice of someone else.

    From a purely betting perspective there has to be some value in Trump to win - unless he gets stitched up at the Convention.
    No, I don't think that will happen because you don't understand the psychology.

    The numerous scandals around the Clintons have been around for years with no result.

    As such Trump will merely allude to Clinton as being ill, and shrill anti-male. Trump appears presidental.

    Clinton can do one of two things, go easy on Trump in which case he wins by default, or

    go hard on Trump in which case he wins as she appears (mentally) ill, shrill and anti-male.

    As Clinton has never shown any ability at politics guess which one she will choose.

    Trump is going to win by a landslide.

    Trump, the man who spends him time insulting every other candidate and believes in imaginary New Jersey Muslims cheering 9/11, is presidential??
    The electorate does not consist of a panel of Harvard wonks.
    You don't need to be a Harvard wonk to find Trump a bellicose clown. He'll lose badly among minorities (a third of the electorate), and struggle among white graduates (another third) and there won't be enough uneducated whites to see him through.
    Do you REALLY believe that.

    Consider this. The average black/hispanic has an IQ of about 85.

    They will hear Trump...wall...stopping illegals... and think "thats good for our jobs and wages"



    You don't REALLY, REALLY believe what you've posted do you?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,736
    Gaius said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Gaius said:

    Sandpit said:

    Gaius said:

    This is pretty savage.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BDBS8bYGhWr/

    Trump is going to destroy Clinton.

    It's going to be a nasty, nasty campaign on both sides. There will be plenty more ads like that one.

    Trump will go very hard on Hillary and portray her as utterly corrupt. Hillary will play on the fears of Trump the man as being unfit and dangerous.

    I'd have thought that by November most Americans would wish they had a choice of someone else.

    From a purely betting perspective there has to be some value in Trump to win - unless he gets stitched up at the Convention.
    No, I don't think that will happen because you don't understand the psychology.

    The numerous scandals around the Clintons have been around for years with no result.

    As such Trump will merely allude to Clinton as being ill, and shrill anti-male. Trump appears presidental.

    Clinton can do one of two things, go easy on Trump in which case he wins by default, or

    go hard on Trump in which case he wins as she appears (mentally) ill, shrill and anti-male.

    As Clinton has never shown any ability at politics guess which one she will choose.

    Trump is going to win by a landslide.

    Trump, the man who spends him time insulting every other candidate and believes in imaginary New Jersey Muslims cheering 9/11, is presidential??
    The electorate does not consist of a panel of Harvard wonks.
    You don't need to be a Harvard wonk to find Trump a bellicose clown. He'll lose badly among minorities (a third of the electorate), and struggle among white graduates (another third) and there won't be enough uneducated whites to see him through.
    Do you REALLY believe that.

    Consider this. The average black/hispanic has an IQ of about 85.

    They will hear Trump...wall...stopping illegals... and think "thats good for our jobs and wages"



    Trump's rating is abysmal with Hispanics who do not want a wall blocking them from their relatives
  • Completely O/T
    No idea if anything juicy lurks within.
    The WikiLeaks Twitter feed is flagging this up this evening.

    Hillary Emails: 117 emails from Tony Blair's secret email address 'aclb'
    https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/?q=aclb
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    rogerh said:

    The changes in personal allowance are crafted to help the struggling middle classes.I calculate that the increase in the allowance from £11,000 to £11500 will give £100 to the standard rate tax payer and £200 to a 40% tax payer.That benefit is dwarfed by raising the level that 40% is paid by £2615 yielding a further £523.So its £100 gain for hard working people and for better off tax payers.One thing you can say about the Tories they look after their own well.

    Since 2010 the personal allowance has gone from £6500 to £11000 - that is a fantastic increase for the lower paid - way better than anything Labour offered. The higher rate allowance was frozen for much of that period. You're cherry-picking and on the outrage bus. Heard it all before many times since 2010 - change the record.
  • richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    edited March 2016
    rogerh..do you think it is only Tories who earn 40 to 50 thousand a year..you need to do some research..
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited March 2016
    Gaius said:

    Gaius said:

    Gaius said:

    Sandpit said:

    Gaius said:

    This is pretty savage.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BDBS8bYGhWr/

    Trump is going to destroy Clinton.

    It's going to be a nasty, nasty campaign on both sides. There will be plenty more ads like that one.

    Trump will go very hard on Hillary and portray her as utterly corrupt. Hillary will play on the fears of Trump the man as being unfit and dangerous.

    I'd have thought that by November most Americans would wish they had a choice of someone else.

    From a purely betting perspective there has to be some value in Trump to win - unless he gets stitched up at the Convention.
    No, I don't think that will happen because you don't understand the psychology.

    The numerous scandals around the Clintons have been around for years with no result.

    As such Trump will merely allude to Clinton as being ill, and shrill anti-male. Trump appears presidental.

    Clinton can do one of two things, go easy on Trump in which case he wins by default, or

    go hard on Trump in which case he wins as she appears (mentally) ill, shrill and anti-male.

    As Clinton has never shown any ability at politics guess which one she will choose.

    Trump is going to win by a landslide.

    Trump, the man who spends him time insulting every other candidate and believes in imaginary New Jersey Muslims cheering 9/11, is presidential??
    Yes.

    This is why he leads in delegates at the moment.

    Only among the unhinged Republican electorate.
    The amount of people voting in the republican primaries has gone up dramatically.

    Trump is getting out the voters.

    At Republican primaries.

    Are you like @Cromwell's nega-image from the mirror universe?
  • GaiusGaius Posts: 227

    Gaius said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Gaius said:

    Sandpit said:

    Gaius said:

    This is pretty savage.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BDBS8bYGhWr/

    Trump is going to destroy Clinton.

    It's going to be a nasty, nasty campaign on both sides. There will be plenty more ads like that one.

    Trump will go very hard on Hillary and portray her as utterly corrupt. Hillary will play on the fears of Trump the man as being unfit and dangerous.

    I'd have thought that by November most Americans would wish they had a choice of someone else.

    From a purely betting perspective there has to be some value in Trump to win - unless he gets stitched up at the Convention.
    No, I don't think that will happen because you don't understand the psychology.

    The numerous scandals around the Clintons have been around for years with no result.

    As such Trump will merely allude to Clinton as being ill, and shrill anti-male. Trump appears presidental.

    Clinton can do one of two things, go easy on Trump in which case he wins by default, or

    go hard on Trump in which case he wins as she appears (mentally) ill, shrill and anti-male.

    As Clinton has never shown any ability at politics guess which one she will choose.

    Trump is going to win by a landslide.

    Trump, the man who spends him time insulting every other candidate and believes in imaginary New Jersey Muslims cheering 9/11, is presidential??
    The electorate does not consist of a panel of Harvard wonks.
    You don't need to be a Harvard wonk to find Trump a bellicose clown. He'll lose badly among minorities (a third of the electorate), and struggle among white graduates (another third) and there won't be enough uneducated whites to see him through.
    Do you REALLY believe that.

    Consider this. The average black/hispanic has an IQ of about 85.

    They will hear Trump...wall...stopping illegals... and think "thats good for our jobs and wages"



    You don't REALLY, REALLY believe what you've posted do you?
    The average black/hispanic DOES have an IQ of about 85. (Look it up if you don't believe me).

    The ones that have jobs will think that the illegals will make it more difficult for them to get jobs and will hold down their wages. Thats what they will hear from Trump.

    Therefore a good number WILL vote for him.

  • GaiusGaius Posts: 227
    HYUFD said:

    Gaius said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Gaius said:

    Sandpit said:

    Gaius said:

    This is pretty savage.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BDBS8bYGhWr/

    Trump is going to destroy Clinton.

    It's going to be a nasty, nasty campaign on both sides. There will be plenty more ads like that one.

    Trump will go very hard on Hillary and portray her as utterly corrupt. Hillary will play on the fears of Trump the man as being unfit and dangerous.

    I'd have thought that by November most Americans would wish they had a choice of someone else.

    From a purely betting perspective there has to be some value in Trump to win - unless he gets stitched up at the Convention.
    No, I don't think that will happen because you don't understand the psychology.

    The numerous scandals around the Clintons have been around for years with no result.

    As such Trump will merely allude to Clinton as being ill, and shrill anti-male. Trump appears presidental.

    Clinton can do one of two things, go easy on Trump in which case he wins by default, or

    go hard on Trump in which case he wins as she appears (mentally) ill, shrill and anti-male.

    As Clinton has never shown any ability at politics guess which one she will choose.

    Trump is going to win by a landslide.

    Trump, the man who spends him time insulting every other candidate and believes in imaginary New Jersey Muslims cheering 9/11, is presidential??
    The electorate does not consist of a panel of Harvard wonks.
    You don't need to be a Harvard wonk to find Trump a bellicose clown. He'll lose badly among minorities (a third of the electorate), and struggle among white graduates (another third) and there won't be enough uneducated whites to see him through.
    Do you REALLY believe that.

    Consider this. The average black/hispanic has an IQ of about 85.

    They will hear Trump...wall...stopping illegals... and think "thats good for our jobs and wages"



    Trump's rating is abysmal with Hispanics who do not want a wall blocking them from their relatives
    That will be the illegals.

    A wall wont stop the legals.

  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    Alistair said:

    The history of Southern Upland Scots, the Border Reivers and the Debatable Land is a catalogue of awesomely awful stuff happening at fast forward.


    I don't think the Islands were much better, were they?
    A bunch of splashing about on boats up north that I'd know nothing about. I was born and raised in the heart (or possibly the head) of the Debateable Land so the stories are imprinted in me.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,728

    AndyJS said:

    Basically that ICM has

    75 year old plus voting to Leave by 55% to 33%

    65-74 year olds voting to Leave by 54% to 36%

    Has 18-24 year olds voting to Remain by 58% to 25%

    and 25-34 year olds voting to Remain by 60% to 25%

    Very risky for Remain to be relying on the All Young Dudes and Dudettes

    Exactly what I said a few days ago. Leave must be very happy to be ahead with the people who can be relied upon to turn up at the polling stations.
    That's why I'm determined to Remain. My children and grandchildren (those old enough to have an opinion) are solidly for Remain.

    So even if I wasn't for Remain anyway I owe it to them to vote Remain. It's their future.
    And in their future the chances are they will change their views and then wish that Leave had won.

    As we get older clearly we get more sensible.
    No, like, apparently, some here, they'll look back to the equivalent of a "sunny" time of their youth. In my case I was young and strong, the world was my hamster and 33% of the world map was coloured red.
    Except that it wasn't that good in many respects.
    I am afraid you are in denial. All the polling evidence is that as people get older they get less and less enamored of the EU. Well, the sensible ones anyway.
    I'm not in denial. The EU has many problems, but becoming part of a Free Tade Area consisting of the UK, the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands isn't the best alternative.
    Straw man attack. No one has ever suggested that. The only reason you have to resort to such idiotic comments is that you have no reasoned or logical response to make. It is a typical Europhile response and exposes the paucity of your arguments
    If one of the reasons for leaving is border control, then EEA/EFTA isn't a good arguement either. Sovereignty-wise we'd be worse of in those, too.

    Edited for spelling.
    As I have said more times than I care to remember immigration does not even begin to register with me as a reason for leaving. And you are completely wrong about sovereignty as well.
  • GaiusGaius Posts: 227
    Alistair said:

    Gaius said:

    Gaius said:

    Gaius said:

    Sandpit said:

    Gaius said:

    This is pretty savage.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BDBS8bYGhWr/

    Trump is going to destroy Clinton.

    It's going to be a nasty, nasty campaign on both sides. There will be plenty more ads like that one.

    Trump will go very hard on Hillary and portray her as utterly corrupt. Hillary will play on the fears of Trump the man as being unfit and dangerous.

    I'd have thought that by November most Americans would wish they had a choice of someone else.

    From a purely betting perspective there has to be some value in Trump to win - unless he gets stitched up at the Convention.
    No, I don't think that will happen because you don't understand the psychology.

    The numerous scandals around the Clintons have been around for years with no result.

    As such Trump will merely allude to Clinton as being ill, and shrill anti-male. Trump appears presidental.

    Clinton can do one of two things, go easy on Trump in which case he wins by default, or

    go hard on Trump in which case he wins as she appears (mentally) ill, shrill and anti-male.

    As Clinton has never shown any ability at politics guess which one she will choose.

    Trump is going to win by a landslide.

    Trump, the man who spends him time insulting every other candidate and believes in imaginary New Jersey Muslims cheering 9/11, is presidential??
    Yes.

    This is why he leads in delegates at the moment.

    Only among the unhinged Republican electorate.
    The amount of people voting in the republican primaries has gone up dramatically.

    Trump is getting out the voters.

    At Republican primaries.

    Are you like @Cromwell's nega-image from the mirror universe?
    Yes, the turnout at republican primaries has rocketed, due to Trump. Trump is getting out the voters.

    Cromwell was a stupid dipshit with no brain who allowed his dislike of one of the candidates to cloud his perception of reality.

    Look, as a libertarian, I am no fan of Trump but the reality is that he has a very good chance of becoming the next president irrespective of mine, yours or even Cromwells wishes.

  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Gaius said:

    Gaius said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Gaius said:

    Sandpit said:

    Gaius said:

    This is pretty savage.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BDBS8bYGhWr/

    Trump is going to destroy Clinton.

    It's going to be a nasty, nasty campaign on both sides. There will be plenty more ads like that one.

    Trump will go very hard on Hillary and portray her as utterly corrupt. Hillary will play on the fears of Trump the man as being unfit and dangerous.

    I'd have thought that by November most Americans would wish they had a choice of someone else.

    From a purely betting perspective there has to be some value in Trump to win - unless he gets stitched up at the Convention.
    No, I don't think that will happen because you don't understand the psychology.

    The numerous scandals around the Clintons have been around for years with no result.

    As such Trump will merely allude to Clinton as being ill, and shrill anti-male. Trump appears presidental.

    Clinton can do one of two things, go easy on Trump in which case he wins by default, or

    go hard on Trump in which case he wins as she appears (mentally) ill, shrill and anti-male.

    As Clinton has never shown any ability at politics guess which one she will choose.

    Trump is going to win by a landslide.

    Trump, the man who spends him time insulting every other candidate and believes in imaginary New Jersey Muslims cheering 9/11, is presidential??
    The electorate does not consist of a panel of Harvard wonks.
    You don't need to be a Harvard wonk to find Trump a bellicose clown. He'll lose badly among minorities (a third of the electorate), and struggle among white graduates (another third) and there won't be enough uneducated whites to see him through.
    Do you REALLY believe that.

    Consider this. The average black/hispanic has an IQ of about 85.

    They will hear Trump...wall...stopping illegals... and think "thats good for our jobs and wages"



    You don't REALLY, REALLY believe what you've posted do you?
    The average black/hispanic DOES have an IQ of about 85. (Look it up if you don't believe me).

    The ones that have jobs will think that the illegals will make it more difficult for them to get jobs and will hold down their wages. Thats what they will hear from Trump.

    Therefore a good number WILL vote for him.

    You're a racist troll.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    Jeremy Corbyn's speech lacked focus at times, and wasn't exactly full of light and shade - often delivered in the same tone of voice. Some on his own frontbench were more distracted by their phones and texts than by his rhetoric.

    Some on the backbenches quite simply chatted.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35826009

    It was that good then...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    edited March 2016
    Wanderer said:

    Gaius said:

    Gaius said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Gaius said:

    Sandpit said:

    Gaius said:

    This is pretty savage.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BDBS8bYGhWr/

    Trump is going to destroy Clinton.

    It's going to be a nasty, nasty campaign on both sides. There will be plenty more ads like that one.

    Trump will go very hard on Hillary and portray her as utterly corrupt. Hillary will play on the fears of Trump the man as being unfit and dangerous.

    I'd have thought that by November most Americans would wish they had a choice of someone else.

    From a purely betting perspective there has to be some value in Trump to win - unless he gets stitched up at the Convention.
    No, I don't think that will happen because you don't understand the psychology.

    The numerous scandals around the Clintons have been around for years with no result.

    As such Trump will merely allude to Clinton as being ill, and shrill anti-male. Trump appears presidental.

    Clinton can do one of two things, go easy on Trump in which case he wins by default, or

    go hard on Trump in which case he wins as she appears (mentally) ill, shrill and anti-male.

    As Clinton has never shown any ability at politics guess which one she will choose.

    Trump is going to win by a landslide.

    Trump, the man who spends him time insulting every other candidate and believes in imaginary New Jersey Muslims cheering 9/11, is presidential??
    The electorate does not consist of a panel of Harvard wonks.
    You don't need to be a Harvard wonk to find Trump a bellicose clown. He'll lose badly among minorities (a third of the electorate), and struggle among white graduates (another third) and there won't be enough uneducated whites to see him through.
    Do you REALLY believe that.

    Consider this. The average black/hispanic has an IQ of about 85.

    They will hear Trump...wall...stopping illegals... and think "thats good for our jobs and wages"



    You don't REALLY, REALLY believe what you've posted do you?
    The average black/hispanic DOES have an IQ of about 85. (Look it up if you don't believe me).

    The ones that have jobs will think that the illegals will make it more difficult for them to get jobs and will hold down their wages. Thats what they will hear from Trump.

    Therefore a good number WILL vote for him.

    You're a racist troll.
    Or SeanT's trolling alter-ego...
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    Jeremy Corbyn's speech lacked focus at times, and wasn't exactly full of light and shade - often delivered in the same tone of voice. Some on his own frontbench were more distracted by their phones and texts than by his rhetoric.

    Some on the backbenches quite simply chatted.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35826009

    It was that good then...

    Maybe we need a new rule, it takes three days to work out how awful the leader of the opposition's response to the budget is.
  • DavidL said:

    Kate Andrews, of the Institute of Economic Affairs, says experience in other countries has shown "a sugar tax is incredibly regressive".

    She tells the BBC: "It's disproportionately going to affect the people at the bottom, people who are poor on low incomes."

    You could eliminate VAT on healthy foods to make up for it.

    Oh yeah, the EU bans us from doing such a sensible thing.
    We don't pay VAT on food, unless it is heated up or in a restaurant.
    Not true. Things like cereal bars, rice cakes, mineral water are standard rated.
    As are chocolate products and other confectionery
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    rogerh said:

    The changes in personal allowance are crafted to help the struggling middle classes.I calculate that the increase in the allowance from £11,000 to £11500 will give £100 to the standard rate tax payer and £200 to a 40% tax payer.That benefit is dwarfed by raising the level that 40% is paid by £2615 yielding a further £523.So its £100 gain for hard working people and for better off tax payers.One thing you can say about the Tories they look after their own well.

    In previous budgets lots of little mendacious tricks were carried out which stopped the 40% tax payers from disproportionately benefiting from the rising personal allowance
  • GaiusGaius Posts: 227
    Wanderer said:

    Gaius said:

    Gaius said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Gaius said:

    Sandpit said:

    Gaius said:

    This is pretty savage.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BDBS8bYGhWr/

    Trump is going to destroy Clinton.

    It's going to be a nasty, nasty campaign on both sides. There will be plenty more ads like that one.

    Trump will go very hard on Hillary and portray her as utterly corrupt. Hillary will play on the fears of Trump the man as being unfit and dangerous.

    I'd have thought tof someone else.

    From a purely betting perspective there has to be some value in Trump to win - unless he gets stitched up at the Convention.
    No, I don't think that will happen because you don't understand the psychology.

    The numerous scandals around the Clintons have been around for years with no result.

    As such Trump will merely allude to Clinton as being ill, and shrill anti-male. Trump appears presidental.

    Clinton can do one of two things, go easy on Trump in which case he wins by default, or

    go hard on Trump in which case he wins as she appears (mentally) ill, shrill and anti-male.

    As Clinton has never shown any ability at politics guess which one she will choose.

    Trump is going to win by a landslide.

    Trump, the man who spends him time insulting every other candidate and believes in imaginary New Jersey Muslims cheering 9/11, is presidential??
    The eard wonks.
    You don't need to be a Harvard wonk to find Trump a bellicose clown. He'll lose badly among minorities (a third of the electorate), and struggle among white graduates (another third) and there won't be enough uneducated whites to see him through.
    Do you REALLY believe that.

    Consider this. The average black/hispanic has an IQ of about 85.

    They will hear Trump...wall...stopping illegals... and think "thats good for our jobs and wages"



    You don't REALLY, REALLY believe what you've posted do you?
    The average black/hispanic DOES have an IQ of about 85. (Look it up if you don't believe me).

    The ones that have jobs will think that the illegals will make it more difficult for them to get jobs and will hold down their wages. Thats what they will hear from Trump.

    Therefore a good number WILL vote for him.

    You're a racist troll.
    Ah diddums, is reality not conforming to your silly little ideology.

    The truth is a morality free zone.

    The average black/hispanic DOES have an IQ of about 85.

    Notice that you didn't even try to refute it.

  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    RodCrosby said:
    It's certainly in Trump's interests to try to set expectations for a contested convention and be clear that he doesn't expect or even entertain the idea that he'd be sidelined.

    He needs to be careful not to be seen to be inciting a riot though!
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Osborne's borrowing prediction:

    2015/16 £72.2bn
    2016/17 £55.5bn -£16.7bn
    2017/18 £38.8bn -£16.7bn
    2018/19 £21.4bn -£17.4bn
    2019/20 £10.4bn surplus -£31.8bn

    Does anyone really believe there's going to be such a huge improvement in the public finances during an election year ???

    Not even slightly. It seems for all his planning, all the admittedly difficult choices he's had to make, ultimately if he succeeds in his primary goal or succeeds Cameron will come down entirely to being very very lucky, if it happens.
    To make these targets growth here needs to be comfortably better than the new OBR figures. That will only happen if growth elsewhere exceeds expectations. That looks unlikely at the moment.
    Right - so despite all his supposed skill at the job, he comes down to the exact same excuses as any other chancellor he no doubt opposed; blame the world economy when you do poorly, while trying to claim the credit when the world economy, and you, do better.
    Except we're doing better than the world, so deserve credit where credit's due.
    He has not done a bad job to be fair, he's managed to reduce quite a lot of govt spending without causing a recession, in the face of poor economic performance of most of our near neighbours and key trading partners.

    He can reasonably be criticised from the right, but to suggest that the alternatives of Brown/Darling/Miliband/Corbyn would have done anything like as good a job is preposterous. If Brown had won the 2010 election we would most likely had a rerun of 1976 with the IMF dictating the Budget a couple of years later rather than the Chancellor.
    Brown had a good history from 1997 to 2001 of really turning the screws on public spending. But it always felt like Labour had decided they were going to lose the General Election in 2010, and their last eighteen months in office became nothing more than a scorched earth policy. Screw up as much as possible for the incoming government, squander and spend with total abandonment, writes lots of cheques, abandon any form of fiscal restraint.
  • FensterFenster Posts: 2,115
    felix said:

    rogerh said:

    The changes in personal allowance are crafted to help the struggling middle classes.I calculate that the increase in the allowance from £11,000 to £11500 will give £100 to the standard rate tax payer and £200 to a 40% tax payer.That benefit is dwarfed by raising the level that 40% is paid by £2615 yielding a further £523.So its £100 gain for hard working people and for better off tax payers.One thing you can say about the Tories they look after their own well.

    Since 2010 the personal allowance has gone from £6500 to £11000 - that is a fantastic increase for the lower paid - way better than anything Labour offered. The higher rate allowance was frozen for much of that period. You're cherry-picking and on the outrage bus. Heard it all before many times since 2010 - change the record.
    The raise in the personal allowance is something the left must find very difficult to complain about.

    Well done the Lib Dems.
  • oldpoliticsoldpolitics Posts: 455
    Fenster said:

    felix said:

    rogerh said:

    The changes in personal allowance are crafted to help the struggling middle classes.I calculate that the increase in the allowance from £11,000 to £11500 will give £100 to the standard rate tax payer and £200 to a 40% tax payer.That benefit is dwarfed by raising the level that 40% is paid by £2615 yielding a further £523.So its £100 gain for hard working people and for better off tax payers.One thing you can say about the Tories they look after their own well.

    Since 2010 the personal allowance has gone from £6500 to £11000 - that is a fantastic increase for the lower paid - way better than anything Labour offered. The higher rate allowance was frozen for much of that period. You're cherry-picking and on the outrage bus. Heard it all before many times since 2010 - change the record.
    The raise in the personal allowance is something the left must find very difficult to complain about.

    Well done the Lib Dems.
    Not really. Combine it with changes in in-work benefits, and consider the number of low-paid workers who aren't full time and... well let's just say it's not all it's cracked up to be if your objective is to do more for the low paid.
  • oldpoliticsoldpolitics Posts: 455
    notme said:

    Sandpit said:

    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    kle4 said:

    Osborne's borrowing prediction:

    2015/16 £72.2bn
    2016/17 £55.5bn -£16.7bn
    2017/18 £38.8bn -£16.7bn
    2018/19 £21.4bn -£17.4bn
    2019/20 £10.4bn surplus -£31.8bn

    Does anyone really believe there's going to be such a huge improvement in the public finances during an election year ???

    Not even slightly. It seems for all his planning, all the admittedly difficult choices he's had to make, ultimately if he succeeds in his primary goal or succeeds Cameron will come down entirely to being very very lucky, if it happens.
    To make these targets growth here needs to be comfortably better than the new OBR figures. That will only happen if growth elsewhere exceeds expectations. That looks unlikely at the moment.
    Right - so despite all his supposed skill at the job, he comes down to the exact same excuses as any other chancellor he no doubt opposed; blame the world economy when you do poorly, while trying to claim the credit when the world economy, and you, do better.
    Except we're doing better than the world, so deserve credit where credit's due.
    He has not done a bad job to be fair, he's managed to reduce quite a lot of govt spending without causing a recession, in the face of poor economic performance of most of our near neighbours and key trading partners.

    He can reasonably be criticised from the right, but to suggest that the alternatives of Brown/Darling/Miliband/Corbyn would have done anything like as good a job is preposterous. If Brown had won the 2010 election we would most likely had a rerun of 1976 with the IMF dictating the Budget a couple of years later rather than the Chancellor.
    Brown had a good history from 1997 to 2001 of really turning the screws on public spending. But it always felt like Labour had decided they were going to lose the General Election in 2010, and their last eighteen months in office became nothing more than a scorched earth policy. Screw up as much as possible for the incoming government, squander and spend with total abandonment, writes lots of cheques, abandon any form of fiscal restraint.
    It's called stimulus. Worked out pretty well for the US.
  • jayfdeejayfdee Posts: 618
    Maybe our resident experts can comment.
    As part of my IHT planning, I can now gift £4000/annum to my offspring, and they put in the lifetime ISA, and get a 25% uplift, sounds too good to be true.
    I was planning to do the gifting anyway, have I got this right?
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    New thread btw
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,554
    Joe Marler: England prop avoids sanction for 'Gypsy boy' comment
  • TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    From the Guardian debate the other day,on why labour shouldn't be on the Remain side.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7NaA8qZy2s
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Gaius said:

    Wanderer said:

    Gaius said:

    Gaius said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Gaius said:

    Sandpit said:

    Gaius said:

    This is pretty savage.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BDBS8bYGhWr/

    Trump is going to destroy Clinton.

    It's going to be a nasty, nasty campaign on both sides. There will be plenty more ads like that one.

    Trump will go very hard on Hillary and portray her as utterly corrupt. Hillary will play on the fears of Trump the man as being unfit and dangerous.

    I'd have thought tof someone else.

    From a purely betting perspective there has to be some value in Trump to win - unless he gets stitched up at the Convention.
    No, I don't think that will happen because you don't understand the psychology.

    The numerous scandals around the Clintons have been around for years with no result.

    As such Trump will merely allude to Clinton as being ill, and shrill anti-male. Trump appears presidental.

    ...
    As Clinton has never shown any ability at politics guess which one she will choose.

    Trump is going to win by a landslide.

    Trump, the man who spends him time insulting every other candidate and believes in imaginary New Jersey Muslims cheering 9/11, is presidential??
    The eard wonks.
    You don't need to be a Harvard wonk to find Trump a bellicose clown. He'll lose badly among minorities (a third of the electorate), and struggle among white graduates (another third) and there won't be enough uneducated whites to see him through.
    Do you REALLY believe that.

    Consider this. The average black/hispanic has an IQ of about 85.

    They will hear Trump...wall...stopping illegals... and think "thats good for our jobs and wages"



    You don't REALLY, REALLY believe what you've posted do you?
    The average black/hispanic DOES have an IQ of about 85. (Look it up if you don't believe me).

    The ones that have jobs ...they will hear from Trump.

    Therefore a good number WILL vote for him.

    You're a racist troll.
    Ah diddums, is reality not conforming to your silly little ideology.

    The truth is a morality free zone.

    The average black/hispanic DOES have an IQ of about 85.

    Notice that you didn't even try to refute it.

    https://www.udel.edu/educ/gottfredson/30years/Rushton-Jensen30years.pdf

    NB I don't think that the paper discusses nature vs nurture. However liberals do have a tendency to ignore facts when they refute their ideas.
  • rogerhrogerh Posts: 282
    felix said:

    rogerh said:

    The changes in personal allowance are crafted to help the struggling middle classes.I calculate that the increase in the allowance from £11,000 to £11500 will give £100 to the standard rate tax payer and £200 to a 40% tax payer.That benefit is dwarfed by raising the level that 40% is paid by £2615 yielding a further £523.So its £100 gain for hard working people and for better off tax payers.One thing you can say about the Tories they look after their own well.

    Since 2010 the personal allowance has gone from £6500 to £11000 - that is a fantastic increase for the lower paid - way better than anything Labour offered. The higher rate allowance was frozen for much of that period. You're cherry-picking and on the outrage bus. Heard it all before many times since 2010 - change the record.
  • rogerhrogerh Posts: 282
    Felix the increase in the personal allowance was driven by the Lib Dems. My argument is not with that increase because it was targeted on those who needed it most.by freezing the of the higher rate Now the brakes are off for the better off.Just to put it into perspective to deliver the total gain in one year of £623 would require increasing the personal allowance in one step from £11,000 to over £14000.
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