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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » 2016 Oscar betting: Roger marks your card

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  • Charles said:

    runnymede said:

    Oh dear another top business leader declines to join Downing Street's 'Project Fear, this time the Portuguese CEO of LLoyds

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3464958/We-ll-thrive-EU-says-bank-chief-Lloyds-boss-gives-vote-confidence-Brexit-s-Portugal.html

    Lords Howard and Owen yesterday as well...this won't be a re-run of 1975 as Cameron and Osborne hoped

    I do wonder - pace @Casino_Royale - whether this steady drip drip of big names coming out for Leave has been planned and sequenced. Big names - surprise leftie, then big Tory, then... etc etc
    You'd think so but then you remember the shambles that is the leave campaign and wonder who on earth might be organising it.
    They are not one campaign, but several. We have the dysfunctional UKIP with their usual shambles whenever Farage meddles in the organisation and then the personality problems of Cummings and then the dad's army of Bone's grassroots. Apart from that, no problem.
  • I note Ted Cruz graduated from Harvard Law School and has taught Supreme Court litigation. I wonder whether he might like to be Rubio's running mate - not as VP (Kasich?), but as SC-nominee-designate (a role I fancy both Presidential candidates may well name in advance).

    This is all probably moot but things are going to have to come to a head after Super Tuesday if they're going to have any chance of stopping the Donald.
  • Roger said:

    Thanks Roger.

    I thought The Revenant was overrated, very good but not a great.

    If it were up to me my choice for best film would be from The Martian, Room, Spotlight or The Big Short. The ending of The Big Short was chilling. But The Martian won it for me, scifi films don't get the honours they deserve, plus this had some awesome 70s music in it including ABBA.

    Best actor, Matt Damon for me, and Mark Rylance for me.

    Actress wise I enjoyed Brie Larson.

    Can someone explain to me why Samuel L Jackson wasn't nominated for his role in The Hateful Eight, because that was the performance of the last year for me

    I think Samuel Jackson wasn't nominated because his performance was a bit too pantomime. You could say the same for javier Bardem in 'No Country...' but there was some serious menace with it! I thought Brie Larson was good but I'd really like Saoirse Ronan to win. I thought she was exceptional and just unlucky that a film like Room was in the same year.
    Thanks. I enjoyed Brooklyn a lot thanks to Ms Ronan and Julie Walters.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited February 2016

    Charles said:

    I've been thinking a bit about the idea that the other members of the EU might, post-Brexit, encourage Scotland to secede from the UK and join the EU. Quite apart from the practical difficulties with such an idea, direct incitement of this type would contravene the international law principle that states should respect the territorial integrity of sovereign states. This type of action would be a massive step change from the recognition of the likes of Kosovo (which remains controversial even within the EU, for example). Respectable democratic countries should not be going anywhere near this type of behaviour.

    So I don't see anything that unsubtle happening.

    Sure. It would be simple. SNP clamours for Indyref2

    The EU "lets it be known" that they would welcome Scotland as a member.

    Job done.

    (My guess, though, is it was really just a threat that France was making, not a real option. But Cameron didn't want to call their bluff)
    I don't think anyone doubts that an independent Scotland would be welcomed as a member of the EU. It would be the only state west of the river Bug that the EU spurned if it wasn't.

    I agree, it would be a pretty empty threat.
    Wouldn't Spain veto membership of an Indy Scotland because of their problems with Catalonian secessionists ?
    That's the debate:

    - If the UK is part of the EU, absolutely no way they would accept an iScot membership
    - If the UK leaves the EU, then breaks up, all they are doing is extending the hand of friendship to a newly independent nation. It's no different to the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia or Croatia
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited February 2016

    Charles said:

    I've been thinking a bit about the idea that the other members of the EU might, post-Brexit, encourage Scotland to secede from the UK and join the EU. Quite apart from the practical difficulties with such an idea, direct incitement of this type would contravene the international law principle that states should respect the territorial integrity of sovereign states. This type of action would be a massive step change from the recognition of the likes of Kosovo (which remains controversial even within the EU, for example). Respectable democratic countries should not be going anywhere near this type of behaviour.

    So I don't see anything that unsubtle happening.

    Sure. It would be simple. SNP clamours for Indyref2

    The EU "lets it be known" that they would welcome Scotland as a member.

    Job done.

    (My guess, though, is it was really just a threat that France was making, not a real option. But Cameron didn't want to call their bluff)
    I don't think anyone doubts that an independent Scotland would be welcomed as a member of the EU. It would be the only state west of the river Bug that the EU spurned if it wasn't.

    I agree, it would be a pretty empty threat.
    Wouldn't Spain veto membership of an Indy Scotland because of their problems with Catalonian secessionists ?
    A post UK-Eu-exit-IndyScotland is a very different beast from an UK-in-Europe-IndyScotland.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Merkel's decision to encourage the migrant crisis will make a great film one day, though the premise might be thought a little far fetched. Let's just hope they aren't remakes of westerns

    https://twitter.com/mailonline/status/703128135634583554
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270
    Pulpstar said:

    My favourite film of 2016 was "THe Martian"
    2nd was "Mad Max". I haven;'t seen many of the others, hope one of the two gets some awards tho.

    If you see no other, catch The Big Short.
  • Charles/Alistair. Good point, something I hadn't considered.
  • Alistair said:

    Charles said:

    I've been thinking a bit about the idea that the other members of the EU might, post-Brexit, encourage Scotland to secede from the UK and join the EU. Quite apart from the practical difficulties with such an idea, direct incitement of this type would contravene the international law principle that states should respect the territorial integrity of sovereign states. This type of action would be a massive step change from the recognition of the likes of Kosovo (which remains controversial even within the EU, for example). Respectable democratic countries should not be going anywhere near this type of behaviour.

    So I don't see anything that unsubtle happening.

    Sure. It would be simple. SNP clamours for Indyref2

    The EU "lets it be known" that they would welcome Scotland as a member.

    Job done.

    (My guess, though, is it was really just a threat that France was making, not a real option. But Cameron didn't want to call their bluff)
    I don't think anyone doubts that an independent Scotland would be welcomed as a member of the EU. It would be the only state west of the river Bug that the EU spurned if it wasn't.

    I agree, it would be a pretty empty threat.
    Wouldn't Spain veto membership of an Indy Scotland because of their problems with Catalonian secessionists ?
    A post UK-Eu-exit-IndyScotland is a very different beast from an UK-in-Europe-IndyScotland.
    After a hypothetical secession by Scotland from the UK, there's no obvious reason for Spain to treat Scotland differently from Slovenia or Croatia. The huffing and puffing would be before independence, mainly, not after.

    The entry terms would still need to be negotiated, of course.

    A post-UK-EU-exit-IndyScotland would find itself in a very uncomfortable position, wanting full access to two different markets that might very well be at loggerheads for years (one of which it itself would have further alienated). It would be doing the diplomatic equivalent of the splits.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    The treaty of accession for the Eastern European countries was signed in 2003.

    Since then, average UK real earnings have fallen.

  • Mr. Isam, I do feel sympathy for the Greeks. One shudders to think how much they most loathe Merkel.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270
    Roger said:

    Thanks Roger.

    I thought The Revenant was overrated, very good but not a great.

    If it were up to me my choice for best film would be from The Martian, Room, Spotlight or The Big Short. The ending of The Big Short was chilling. But The Martian won it for me, scifi films don't get the honours they deserve, plus this had some awesome 70s music in it including ABBA.

    Best actor, Matt Damon for me, and Mark Rylance for me.

    Actress wise I enjoyed Brie Larson.

    Can someone explain to me why Samuel L Jackson wasn't nominated for his role in The Hateful Eight, because that was the performance of the last year for me

    I think Samuel Jackson wasn't nominated because his performance was a bit too pantomime.
    A bit? There was more ham there than a pig farm! His worst performance in a Tarantino movie, IMHO.

  • kjohnwkjohnw Posts: 1,456

    Apologies if already posted, but what a fine school with excellent staff, they should be praised for flagging up one of their students visiting an extremist site.

    PC gone mad: Outrage as school calls police after pupil looks at Ukip website in class

    A SCHOOLBOY was hauled out of class and interrogated by detectives after politically correct teachers reported him to the POLICE for visiting the UKIP website.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/647539/Ukip-UK-Independence-Party-school-police-called-website

    so it is of concern to look at a website of a party which has MEP's, an MP and four million voters at the last election. talk about thought police and erosion of our freedoms to have political views. the worlds gone mad!
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    It's destroyed their tourist industry in the most effected parts.

    Mr. Isam, I do feel sympathy for the Greeks. One shudders to think how much they most loathe Merkel.

  • Charles said:

    @Cyclefree

    Vanilla mail for you.

    Also vanilla for you Charles.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753

    Mr. Isam, I do feel sympathy for the Greeks. One shudders to think how much they most loathe Merkel.

    Still EU democracy is such they can always vote to get rid of her at the next election.

    Oh wait.....
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 2016
    Good job! Barbaric and backward attitudes to sex that have no place in the western world. Let's hope there aren't thousands more entering the EU on a daily basis...

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/703146312468828161
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    isam said:

    Good job! Barbaric and backward attitudes to sex that have no place in the western world. Let's hope there aren't thousands more entering the EU on a daily basis...

    https://twitter.com/standardnews/status/703146312468828161

    Are his finger nails longer than Cameron's

    We should be told!
  • kjohnw said:

    Apologies if already posted, but what a fine school with excellent staff, they should be praised for flagging up one of their students visiting an extremist site.

    PC gone mad: Outrage as school calls police after pupil looks at Ukip website in class

    A SCHOOLBOY was hauled out of class and interrogated by detectives after politically correct teachers reported him to the POLICE for visiting the UKIP website.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/647539/Ukip-UK-Independence-Party-school-police-called-website

    so it is of concern to look at a website of a party which has MEP's, an MP and four million voters at the last election. talk about thought police and erosion of our freedoms to have political views. the worlds gone mad!
    "Police said the contact with the teen was not solely sparked by accessing the Ukip website."

    So there is presumably more to this story than the Express has suggested.
  • Charles said:

    Charles said:

    I've been thinking a bit about the idea that the other members of the EU might, post-Brexit, encourage Scotland to secede from the UK and join the EU. Quite apart from the practical difficulties with such an idea, direct incitement of this type would contravene the international law principle that states should respect the territorial integrity of sovereign states. This type of action would be a massive step change from the recognition of the likes of Kosovo (which remains controversial even within the EU, for example). Respectable democratic countries should not be going anywhere near this type of behaviour.

    So I don't see anything that unsubtle happening.

    Sure. It would be simple. SNP clamours for Indyref2

    The EU "lets it be known" that they would welcome Scotland as a member.

    Job done.

    (My guess, though, is it was really just a threat that France was making, not a real option. But Cameron didn't want to call their bluff)
    I don't think anyone doubts that an independent Scotland would be welcomed as a member of the EU. It would be the only state west of the river Bug that the EU spurned if it wasn't.

    I agree, it would be a pretty empty threat.
    Wouldn't Spain veto membership of an Indy Scotland because of their problems with Catalonian secessionists ?
    That's the debate:

    - If the UK is part of the EU, absolutely no way they would accept an iScot membership
    - If the UK leaves the EU, then breaks up, all they are doing is extending the hand of friendship to a newly independent nation. It's no different to the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia or Croatia
    If we leave the EU I cannot see it surviving in it's present format. Even before the referendum we are going to see a cataclysmic fall out between Germany, Austria and the Balkans with Greece hung out to dry. No one, absolutely no one, has an answer. Listening to Martin Schultz on BBC Hardtalk I was amazed how he was incredulous that a Conservative Prime Minister would be campaigning on the EU's side and became extremely agitated over the accusation of Merkel's open door disaster and the near civil war breaking out. I expect within a month Schengen will be suspended for two years and the internal discord throughout the EU will see such a level of unrest that it may well run out of control with no one knowing the end game. As far as the referendum is concerned I am pulled both ways but in the event of EU chaos being inside and having a big influence on outcomes may well be better than being on the outside with no control and with an EU that really would not be interested in accommodating the UK
  • Charles said:

    runnymede said:

    Oh dear another top business leader declines to join Downing Street's 'Project Fear, this time the Portuguese CEO of LLoyds

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3464958/We-ll-thrive-EU-says-bank-chief-Lloyds-boss-gives-vote-confidence-Brexit-s-Portugal.html

    Lords Howard and Owen yesterday as well...this won't be a re-run of 1975 as Cameron and Osborne hoped

    I do wonder - pace @Casino_Royale - whether this steady drip drip of big names coming out for Leave has been planned and sequenced. Big names - surprise leftie, then big Tory, then... etc etc
    Perhaps but big names declining to join Remain isn't the same as declaring for Leave.

    Personally, I think Vote Leave needs to organise a 'big bang' of 30-40 top names all announcing for Leave in one go to grab the headlines and a news cycle or two.

    Remain must be put on the defensive and, right now, the impression being given is that business is for Remain.
  • john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @CarlotaVance

    'In any case, the SNP is trying to hold the line against SINDYREF2.....'

    With oil at $30 a barrel & forced to join the Euro with it's strict borrowing limits, no chance despite all the bluster from the SNP.
  • Roger said:

    Thanks Roger.

    I thought The Revenant was overrated, very good but not a great.

    If it were up to me my choice for best film would be from The Martian, Room, Spotlight or The Big Short. The ending of The Big Short was chilling. But The Martian won it for me, scifi films don't get the honours they deserve, plus this had some awesome 70s music in it including ABBA.

    Best actor, Matt Damon for me, and Mark Rylance for me.

    Actress wise I enjoyed Brie Larson.

    Can someone explain to me why Samuel L Jackson wasn't nominated for his role in The Hateful Eight, because that was the performance of the last year for me

    I think Samuel Jackson wasn't nominated because his performance was a bit too pantomime.
    A bit? There was more ham there than a pig farm! His worst performance in a Tarantino movie, IMHO.

    Nonsense. His winding up of the General alone deserves an Oscar and the warm drink he gave the General's son.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    stjohn said:

    Roger. Thanks very much for doing this. And thanks to Peter from Putney - the Sage of PB - for identifying the value bets.

    Peter politely requested that Roger underwrite his betting liabilities on these tips. Roger hasn't responded to this request but I think we can safely assume that Roger's silence indicates tacit agreement.

    Hi StJohn and thanks. I missed that from PtP! I think you might be assuming wrongly!
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251

    Roger said:

    Thanks Roger.

    I thought The Revenant was overrated, very good but not a great.

    If it were up to me my choice for best film would be from The Martian, Room, Spotlight or The Big Short. The ending of The Big Short was chilling. But The Martian won it for me, scifi films don't get the honours they deserve, plus this had some awesome 70s music in it including ABBA.

    Best actor, Matt Damon for me, and Mark Rylance for me.

    Actress wise I enjoyed Brie Larson.

    Can someone explain to me why Samuel L Jackson wasn't nominated for his role in The Hateful Eight, because that was the performance of the last year for me

    I think Samuel Jackson wasn't nominated because his performance was a bit too pantomime. You could say the same for javier Bardem in 'No Country...' but there was some serious menace with it! I thought Brie Larson was good but I'd really like Saoirse Ronan to win. I thought she was exceptional and just unlucky that a film like Room was in the same year.
    Thanks. I enjoyed Brooklyn a lot thanks to Ms Ronan and Julie Walters.
    Brooklyn was excellent.
  • Charles said:

    Charles said:

    runnymede said:

    Oh dear another top business leader declines to join Downing Street's 'Project Fear, this time the Portuguese CEO of LLoyds

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3464958/We-ll-thrive-EU-says-bank-chief-Lloyds-boss-gives-vote-confidence-Brexit-s-Portugal.html

    Lords Howard and Owen yesterday as well...this won't be a re-run of 1975 as Cameron and Osborne hoped

    I do wonder - pace @Casino_Royale - whether this steady drip drip of big names coming out for Leave has been planned and sequenced. Big names - surprise leftie, then big Tory, then... etc etc
    You'd think so but then you remember the shambles that is the leave campaign and wonder who on earth might be organising it.
    Judging by the number of invitations I get to Vote Leave events around the country (none of which I've managed to go to just yet!) plus campaign briefing breakfasts every week I suspect they are paddling furiously under the surface...
    I think they are, but they need to paddle above the surface too.

    The air war is dominated by Remain at the moment.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270
    edited February 2016
    John_M said:

    Good morning all.

    The Revenant was pretty but dull. The Big Short is a better film imo. Joy was the worst film I saw in the last 12 months - why Lawrence was nominated I've no idea. Sad to see Sicario being so shortchanged - we bought the DVD and it still held up to a second viewing.

    Joy was awful - trying to shoe-horn the Silver Linings cast into a film that was all wrong for them. Bradley Cooper in particular was a spare prick at a wedding.

    Sicario looked great - Roger Deakins' cinematography elevated it into a great action-thriller.

    Black Mass was my biggest WTF? in the nominations. Nowhere. It was one of the best gangster movies I've ever seen. Depp was a revelation.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    kjohnw said:

    Apologies if already posted, but what a fine school with excellent staff, they should be praised for flagging up one of their students visiting an extremist site.

    PC gone mad: Outrage as school calls police after pupil looks at Ukip website in class

    A SCHOOLBOY was hauled out of class and interrogated by detectives after politically correct teachers reported him to the POLICE for visiting the UKIP website.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/647539/Ukip-UK-Independence-Party-school-police-called-website

    so it is of concern to look at a website of a party which has MEP's, an MP and four million voters at the last election. talk about thought police and erosion of our freedoms to have political views. the worlds gone mad!
    "Police said the contact with the teen was not solely sparked by accessing the Ukip website."

    So there is presumably more to this story than the Express has suggested.
    There's more to any story than the Express suggests.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270
    Wanderer said:

    kjohnw said:

    Apologies if already posted, but what a fine school with excellent staff, they should be praised for flagging up one of their students visiting an extremist site.

    PC gone mad: Outrage as school calls police after pupil looks at Ukip website in class

    A SCHOOLBOY was hauled out of class and interrogated by detectives after politically correct teachers reported him to the POLICE for visiting the UKIP website.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/647539/Ukip-UK-Independence-Party-school-police-called-website

    so it is of concern to look at a website of a party which has MEP's, an MP and four million voters at the last election. talk about thought police and erosion of our freedoms to have political views. the worlds gone mad!
    "Police said the contact with the teen was not solely sparked by accessing the Ukip website."

    So there is presumably more to this story than the Express has suggested.
    There's more to any story than the Express suggests.
    No, there's usually far less....
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    edited February 2016

    If we leave the EU I cannot see it surviving in it's present format. Even before the referendum we are going to see a cataclysmic fall out between Germany, Austria and the Balkans with Greece hung out to dry. No one, absolutely no one, has an answer. Listening to Martin Schultz on BBC Hardtalk I was amazed how he was incredulous that a Conservative Prime Minister would be campaigning on the EU's side and became extremely agitated over the accusation of Merkel's open door disaster and the near civil war breaking out. I expect within a month Schengen will be suspended for two years and the internal discord throughout the EU will see such a level of unrest that it may well run out of control with no one knowing the end game. As far as the referendum is concerned I am pulled both ways but in the event of EU chaos being inside and having a big influence on outcomes may well be better than being on the outside with no control and with an EU that really would not be interested in accommodating the UK


    "As far as the referendum is concerned I am pulled both ways but in the event of EU chaos being inside and having a big influence on outcomes may well be better than being on the outside with no control and with an EU that really would not be interested in accommodating the UK"


    So you would stay on the Titanic to try and steer the ship going down, rather than take the lifeboat?

  • kjohnw said:

    Apologies if already posted, but what a fine school with excellent staff, they should be praised for flagging up one of their students visiting an extremist site.

    PC gone mad: Outrage as school calls police after pupil looks at Ukip website in class

    A SCHOOLBOY was hauled out of class and interrogated by detectives after politically correct teachers reported him to the POLICE for visiting the UKIP website.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/647539/Ukip-UK-Independence-Party-school-police-called-website

    so it is of concern to look at a website of a party which has MEP's, an MP and four million voters at the last election. talk about thought police and erosion of our freedoms to have political views. the worlds gone mad!
    "Police said the contact with the teen was not solely sparked by accessing the Ukip website."

    So there is presumably more to this story than the Express has suggested.
    If he was on Leave.EU as well then it all starts to make sense.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Trump back over 1.5.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758



    If we leave the EU I cannot see it surviving in it's present format. Even before the referendum we are going to see a cataclysmic fall out between Germany, Austria and the Balkans with Greece hung out to dry. No one, absolutely no one, has an answer. Listening to Martin Schultz on BBC Hardtalk I was amazed how he was incredulous that a Conservative Prime Minister would be campaigning on the EU's side and became extremely agitated over the accusation of Merkel's open door disaster and the near civil war breaking out. I expect within a month Schengen will be suspended for two years and the internal discord throughout the EU will see such a level of unrest that it may well run out of control with no one knowing the end game. As far as the referendum is concerned I am pulled both ways but in the event of EU chaos being inside and having a big influence on outcomes may well be better than being on the outside with no control and with an EU that really would not be interested in accommodating the UK

    My analysis is the same but the conclusion totally different.

    In the event of EU chaos far better to be outside. Let them sort it out as suits them, while we focus on growth markets.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    edited February 2016

    Pulpstar said:

    My favourite film of 2016 was "THe Martian"
    2nd was "Mad Max". I haven;'t seen many of the others, hope one of the two gets some awards tho.

    If you see no other, catch The Big Short.
    Agreed or Revenant on a VERY large screen
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 43,112

    Roger said:

    Thanks Roger.

    I thought The Revenant was overrated, very good but not a great.

    If it were up to me my choice for best film would be from The Martian, Room, Spotlight or The Big Short. The ending of The Big Short was chilling. But The Martian won it for me, scifi films don't get the honours they deserve, plus this had some awesome 70s music in it including ABBA.

    Best actor, Matt Damon for me, and Mark Rylance for me.

    Actress wise I enjoyed Brie Larson.

    Can someone explain to me why Samuel L Jackson wasn't nominated for his role in The Hateful Eight, because that was the performance of the last year for me

    I think Samuel Jackson wasn't nominated because his performance was a bit too pantomime.
    A bit? There was more ham there than a pig farm! His worst performance in a Tarantino movie, IMHO.

    Nonsense. His winding up of the General alone deserves an Oscar and the warm drink he gave the General's son.
    The tragedy was Pulp Fiction and his non-winning then. Everything else is sadly seen in that context. Everyone is waiting for his next Jules and if his latest at any time doesn't quite measure up, they try to shoehorn it into being as good.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,367

    I seldom watch films so I wouldn't dare to offer tips, but on the way to San Francisco I watched a film (on the back of the seat in front) starring Johnny Depp (I didn't recognise him at first). He played Whitey Bulger, and I thought he was very impressive. I assume that's 'Black Mass'?

    He radiated an air of menace without overdoing it.
  • Alistair said:

    Charles said:

    I've been thinking a bit about the idea that the other members of the EU might, post-Brexit, encourage Scotland to secede from the UK and join the EU. Quite apart from the practical difficulties with such an idea, direct incitement of this type would contravene the international law principle that states should respect the territorial integrity of sovereign states. This type of action would be a massive step change from the recognition of the likes of Kosovo (which remains controversial even within the EU, for example). Respectable democratic countries should not be going anywhere near this type of behaviour.

    So I don't see anything that unsubtle happening.

    Sure. It would be simple. SNP clamours for Indyref2

    The EU "lets it be known" that they would welcome Scotland as a member.

    Job done.

    (My guess, though, is it was really just a threat that France was making, not a real option. But Cameron didn't want to call their bluff)
    I don't think anyone doubts that an independent Scotland would be welcomed as a member of the EU. It would be the only state west of the river Bug that the EU spurned if it wasn't.

    I agree, it would be a pretty empty threat.
    Wouldn't Spain veto membership of an Indy Scotland because of their problems with Catalonian secessionists ?
    A post UK-Eu-exit-IndyScotland is a very different beast from an UK-in-Europe-IndyScotland.
    A post-UK-EU-exit-IndyScotland would find itself in a very uncomfortable position, wanting full access to two different markets that might very well be at loggerheads for years (one of which it itself would have further alienated). It would be doing the diplomatic equivalent of the splits.
    And one of the markets accounts for a lot more of its trade than the other one......
  • Wanderer said:

    kjohnw said:

    Apologies if already posted, but what a fine school with excellent staff, they should be praised for flagging up one of their students visiting an extremist site.

    PC gone mad: Outrage as school calls police after pupil looks at Ukip website in class

    A SCHOOLBOY was hauled out of class and interrogated by detectives after politically correct teachers reported him to the POLICE for visiting the UKIP website.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/647539/Ukip-UK-Independence-Party-school-police-called-website

    so it is of concern to look at a website of a party which has MEP's, an MP and four million voters at the last election. talk about thought police and erosion of our freedoms to have political views. the worlds gone mad!
    "Police said the contact with the teen was not solely sparked by accessing the Ukip website."

    So there is presumably more to this story than the Express has suggested.
    There's more to any story than the Express suggests.
    No, there's usually far less....

    Unless its Princess Diana's Cancer Breakthrough for Hard Pressed Second Home Owners in the coming Big Freeze/Scorching Summer (delete as appropriate)
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    Just watched QT, we all know how dreadful Abbott is but if Truss is the best the tories can put forward our politics is at an all time though. Stuffed dummies parrotting rehearsed lines.

    I like that vicar.

    Truss is absolutely dreadful. I cannot forget (or forgive) that awful conference speech.
    I do not know why some folk rate her as a future Leader. To my mind Andrea Leadsom is a lady of real substance. She comes across as a very able manager. Telling Osborne to eff off takes real cojones.
    She's done a downright awful job at Energy though. Worse than Huhne and Davey.
    why?
    Well for one she wants to u-turn on wind subsidies. She has put through new legislation to shut down our last coal fired plants sharpening our energy crisis and she has made CCGTs completely and utterly uncompetitive, despite very low gas prices. Her stopgap plan is a bunch of dirty diesel generators to stop the lights from going out in 2017-2019.

    Honestly, the department is pretty farcical. The duality of having both energy and climate change in a single department is crazy, that's not her fault. Not ignoring climate change in favour of short term energy security is her fault though. I don't think people are going to care about carbon emissions if the lights go out during Christmas.
    If lights are going out in 2017 that would be based on decisions taken up to 10 years beforehand. So we are looking at the last 3 years of the Labour Govt and those made under Huhne & Davey in the Coalition. Correct me if I am wrong but wind farms are still going in and it is just plans for ones that would become operational in 2020+ that would be affected by cutting back wind subsidies now. There is a very long period of design/approval/build/install/grid change to overcome. Not something that gets delivered in 12 months.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098



    After a hypothetical secession by Scotland from the UK, there's no obvious reason for Spain to treat Scotland differently from Slovenia or Croatia. The huffing and puffing would be before independence, mainly, not after.

    The entry terms would still need to be negotiated, of course.

    A post-UK-EU-exit-IndyScotland would find itself in a very uncomfortable position, wanting full access to two different markets that might very well be at loggerheads for years (one of which it itself would have further alienated). It would be doing the diplomatic equivalent of the splits.

    That is a very pessimistic view, Mr. Meeks. An independent Scotland trading with a post exit rUK would be in a very similar position to that of Ireland and as far as I am aware no one is prophesying major problems for them.

    Additionally none of this would happen overnight, a Leave vote in June would be followed by up to two years of negotiations to settle terms of trade and the details of the break. An independence vote by Scotland, which could probably take place only towards the end of that period, would also be followed by a long period of negotiation. So there would be lots of time to come to an amicable set of arrangements.

    May I also say that I find the idea that the UK and the EU could be a loggerheads for years a bit far fetched. Trade is trade, neighbours have to be neighbours, there is just too much (money), at stake for us to be anything other than on friendly terms (well, as least a friendly as they are now).
  • john_zims said:

    @CarlotaVance

    'In any case, the SNP is trying to hold the line against SINDYREF2.....'

    With oil at $30 a barrel & forced to join the Euro with it's strict borrowing limits, no chance despite all the bluster from the SNP.

    Sadly as a ScottieIndie supporter I fear that a referendum on these $30 prices would fail. So yes no 2nd referendum until the oil price is $100+. If ever?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270
    CD13 said:


    I seldom watch films so I wouldn't dare to offer tips, but on the way to San Francisco I watched a film (on the back of the seat in front) starring Johnny Depp (I didn't recognise him at first). He played Whitey Bulger, and I thought he was very impressive. I assume that's 'Black Mass'?

    He radiated an air of menace without overdoing it.

    Yes, that would be Black Mass.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Andrew Sinclair
    Interesting revelation from @BBCr4today ; russian TV shows pics of Jaywick in Essex as sign of how grim life is in UK
  • Wanderer said:

    Trump back over 1.5.

    Not for long.
  • If he was on Leave.EU as well then it all starts to make sense.

    Or posting on politicalbetting.com.

    Come to think of it, haven't a couple of regulars gone silent recently?
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited February 2016
    Regarding the negotiations with the EC after/if we have a LEAVE vote.

    Qn So Mr EC, you want full access to our fish and to sell us all the german cars, french produce etc etc and allow our people to spend billions around the Med on holiday in your countries?
    Ans:Yes
    Qn So for these privileges you want us to also pay you £11billion a year and allow anyone of the 450m EC citizens the right to come into our country and compete for every job the same as a UK citizen and that you will dictate how we make and build every product and service we produce and to carry on creating half our laws for us?
    Ans Yes
    Anyone spot the problem?
  • I feel guilty for laughing at this

    THE BBC is to launch a £10m probe into claims of sexually suggestive language in its 1970s cartoons.

    The inquiry will focus on previously false allegations that popular children’s programme Captain Pugwash included references to masturbation, under-age sex and seminal fluid.

    A spokesman said: “We’ve decided that a ‘Pugwash’ means being urinated on simultaneously by four Radio One DJs.”


    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-entertainment/bbc-to-investigate-pugwash-rumours-2012102946725
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    "Police said the contact with the teen was not solely sparked by accessing the Ukip website."

    Well they would say that, wouldn't they? Unfortunately they have a fair bit of recent form in this area.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    ... in the event of EU chaos being inside and having a big influence on outcomes may well be better than being on the outside with no control and with an EU that really would not be interested in accommodating the UK

    I am struggling with this idea that the UK has a big influence on what the EU decides to do. When has it ever happened before? Someone posted on here a while back figures that showed the UK was the most frequently out-voted country in the EU. We seem to have had remarkably little influence over the years and once the EuroZone countries start voting as a block we will have even less.

  • Andrew Sinclair
    Interesting revelation from @BBCr4today ; russian TV shows pics of Jaywick in Essex as sign of how grim life is in UK

    Perhaps we should spend a bit less on overseas aid and more on the few real hardship areas?


  • After a hypothetical secession by Scotland from the UK, there's no obvious reason for Spain to treat Scotland differently from Slovenia or Croatia. The huffing and puffing would be before independence, mainly, not after.

    The entry terms would still need to be negotiated, of course.

    A post-UK-EU-exit-IndyScotland would find itself in a very uncomfortable position, wanting full access to two different markets that might very well be at loggerheads for years (one of which it itself would have further alienated). It would be doing the diplomatic equivalent of the splits.

    That is a very pessimistic view, Mr. Meeks. An independent Scotland trading with a post exit rUK would be in a very similar position to that of Ireland and as far as I am aware no one is prophesying major problems for them.

    Additionally none of this would happen overnight, a Leave vote in June would be followed by up to two years of negotiations to settle terms of trade and the details of the break. An independence vote by Scotland, which could probably take place only towards the end of that period, would also be followed by a long period of negotiation. So there would be lots of time to come to an amicable set of arrangements.

    May I also say that I find the idea that the UK and the EU could be a loggerheads for years a bit far fetched. Trade is trade, neighbours have to be neighbours, there is just too much (money), at stake for us to be anything other than on friendly terms (well, as least a friendly as they are now).
    There's a lot of concern in Ireland what Brexit could mean for it, for example:

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/irish-question-looms-large-over-british-eu-exit-debate-1452712128

    "Most analyses suggest that Ireland would bear a heavier economic cost than the U.K. itself from a British exit, or “Brexit,” from the EU—and would lose out even under the most optimistic scenarios. Yet citizens of the Republic of Ireland—other than the 400,000 residents in the U.K.—will have no say in the referendum."
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited February 2016
    stay away from ukip sites according to our police. More insight into THAT express story.
    http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/14304854.Schoolboy_questioned_by_police__after_looking_at_UKIP_website_/
    Very worrying.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 2016
    How old was the girl alleged to have been sexually abused by several radio one DJs when she committed suicide? What a hoot!

    Dead women are such a rich seam of sexual innuendo to mine


  • After a hypothetical secession by Scotland from the UK, there's no obvious reason for Spain to treat Scotland differently from Slovenia or Croatia. The huffing and puffing would be before independence, mainly, not after.

    The entry terms would still need to be negotiated, of course.

    A post-UK-EU-exit-IndyScotland would find itself in a very uncomfortable position, wanting full access to two different markets that might very well be at loggerheads for years (one of which it itself would have further alienated). It would be doing the diplomatic equivalent of the splits.

    That is a very pessimistic view, Mr. Meeks. An independent Scotland trading with a post exit rUK would be in a very similar position to that of Ireland and as far as I am aware no one is prophesying major problems for them.

    Additionally none of this would happen overnight, a Leave vote in June would be followed by up to two years of negotiations to settle terms of trade and the details of the break. An independence vote by Scotland, which could probably take place only towards the end of that period, would also be followed by a long period of negotiation. So there would be lots of time to come to an amicable set of arrangements.

    May I also say that I find the idea that the UK and the EU could be a loggerheads for years a bit far fetched. Trade is trade, neighbours have to be neighbours, there is just too much (money), at stake for us to be anything other than on friendly terms (well, as least a friendly as they are now).
    There's a lot of concern in Ireland what Brexit could mean for it, for example:
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/irish-question-looms-large-over-british-eu-exit-debate-1452712128
    "Most analyses suggest that Ireland would bear a heavier economic cost than the U.K. itself from a British exit, or “Brexit,” from the EU—and would lose out even under the most optimistic scenarios. Yet citizens of the Republic of Ireland—other than the 400,000 residents in the U.K.—will have no say in the referendum."
    The data on the impact on Ireland may be obscured by the impact of the UK acting as a transhipment point for Ireland.
  • @philipjcowley · 28m28 minutes ago

    There's a general election in Ireland today.

    And the BBC website top story is about a republican primary...

  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,367
    "stay away from ukip sites according to our police. More insight into THAT express story."

    Whatever next? They'll be letting them adopt kids next.

    Whatever happened to Joyce Thacker?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663

    @philipjcowley · 28m28 minutes ago
    There's a general election in Ireland today.
    And the BBC website top story is about a republican primary...

    About a debate for a republican primary no less. Extraordinary.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098



    After a hypothetical secession by Scotland from the UK, there's no obvious reason for Spain to treat Scotland differently from Slovenia or Croatia. The huffing and puffing would be before independence, mainly, not after.

    The entry terms would still need to be negotiated, of course.

    A post-UK-EU-exit-IndyScotland would find itself in a very uncomfortable position, wanting full access to two different markets that might very well be at loggerheads for years (one of which it itself would have further alienated). It would be doing the diplomatic equivalent of the splits.

    That is a very pessimistic view, Mr. Meeks. An independent Scotland trading with a post exit rUK would be in a very similar position to that of Ireland and as far as I am aware no one is prophesying major problems for them.

    Additionally none of this would happen overnight, a Leave vote in June would be followed by up to two years of negotiations to settle terms of trade and the details of the break. An independence vote by Scotland, which could probably take place only towards the end of that period, would also be followed by a long period of negotiation. So there would be lots of time to come to an amicable set of arrangements.

    May I also say that I find the idea that the UK and the EU could be a loggerheads for years a bit far fetched. Trade is trade, neighbours have to be neighbours, there is just too much (money), at stake for us to be anything other than on friendly terms (well, as least a friendly as they are now).
    There's a lot of concern in Ireland what Brexit could mean for it, for example:

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/irish-question-looms-large-over-british-eu-exit-debate-1452712128

    "Most analyses suggest that Ireland would bear a heavier economic cost than the U.K. itself from a British exit, or “Brexit,” from the EU—and would lose out even under the most optimistic scenarios. Yet citizens of the Republic of Ireland—other than the 400,000 residents in the U.K.—will have no say in the referendum."
    Thanks for that, Mr. Meeks. Unfortunately I couldn't read the article you posted - it wanted me to subscribe to the Wall Street Journal in order to see beyond the headlines. However, I shall go in search of these "most analyses" (sounds like a wallpaper phrase to me).
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    The BBC and Sky are transfixed by Trump.

    It's bizarre.
    Pulpstar said:

    @philipjcowley · 28m28 minutes ago
    There's a general election in Ireland today.
    And the BBC website top story is about a republican primary...

    About a debate for a republican primary no less. Extraordinary.


  • After a hypothetical secession by Scotland from the UK, there's no obvious reason for Spain to treat Scotland differently from Slovenia or Croatia. The huffing and puffing would be before independence, mainly, not after.

    The entry terms would still need to be negotiated, of course.

    A post-UK-EU-exit-IndyScotland would find itself in a very uncomfortable position, wanting full access to two different markets that might very well be at loggerheads for years (one of which it itself would have further alienated). It would be doing the diplomatic equivalent of the splits.

    That is a very pessimistic view, Mr. Meeks. An independent Scotland trading with a post exit rUK would be in a very similar position to that of Ireland and as far as I am aware no one is prophesying major problems for them.

    Additionally none of this would happen overnight, a Leave vote in June would be followed by up to two years of negotiations to settle terms of trade and the details of the break. An independence vote by Scotland, which could probably take place only towards the end of that period, would also be followed by a long period of negotiation. So there would be lots of time to come to an amicable set of arrangements.

    May I also say that I find the idea that the UK and the EU could be a loggerheads for years a bit far fetched. Trade is trade, neighbours have to be neighbours, there is just too much (money), at stake for us to be anything other than on friendly terms (well, as least a friendly as they are now).
    There's a lot of concern in Ireland what Brexit could mean for it, for example:

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/irish-question-looms-large-over-british-eu-exit-debate-1452712128

    "Most analyses suggest that Ireland would bear a heavier economic cost than the U.K. itself from a British exit, or “Brexit,” from the EU—and would lose out even under the most optimistic scenarios. Yet citizens of the Republic of Ireland—other than the 400,000 residents in the U.K.—will have no say in the referendum."
    Thanks for that, Mr. Meeks. Unfortunately I couldn't read the article you posted - it wanted me to subscribe to the Wall Street Journal in order to see beyond the headlines. However, I shall go in search of these "most analyses" (sounds like a wallpaper phrase to me).
    Here's Open Europe's take:

    http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/how-would-brexit-impact-ireland/
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Frankly I'm not surprised http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3298586/Thousands-spent-headhunters-wants-new-boss-toxic-RSPCA-Charity-leadership-crisis-nearly-two-years-without-chief-executive.html
    Thousands spent on headhunters but nobody wants to be the new boss of 'toxic' RSPCA: Charity in leadership crisis after nearly two years without a chief executive
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    That's reassuring.
    More than 130,00 refugees - 13 percent of the total who have arrived in Germany in the past 14 months - have vanished.

    The government admitted the bizarre statistic in answer to a question posed in the Bundestag parliament on Thursday by the Left Party.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3465171/More-130-000-migrants-vanished-Germany-13-cent-arrivals-14-months-government-reveals.html
  • Poor Boris, getting kicked by his own side, again.

    Boris Johnson came under savage attack today from his own Tory deputy mayor in charge of policing, who warned he will endanger London if he succeeds in his campaign for Britain to leave the EU.

    Stephen Greenhalgh, who oversees the Met, hit out at politicians who “think that sovereignty is more important than public safety”. He also suggested a “Brexit” would make Britain more vulnerable to a Paris-style terror attack.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mayor-s-own-police-chief-warns-him-quitting-eu-will-place-capital-in-peril-a3189926.html
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    Poor Boris, getting kicked by his own side, again.

    Boris Johnson came under savage attack today from his own Tory deputy mayor in charge of policing, who warned he will endanger London if he succeeds in his campaign for Britain to leave the EU.

    Stephen Greenhalgh, who oversees the Met, hit out at politicians who “think that sovereignty is more important than public safety”. He also suggested a “Brexit” would make Britain more vulnerable to a Paris-style terror attack.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mayor-s-own-police-chief-warns-him-quitting-eu-will-place-capital-in-peril-a3189926.html

    suggested a “Brexit” would make Britain more vulnerable to a Paris-style terror attack

    A stupid claim.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited February 2016

    Stephen Greenhalgh, who oversees the Met, hit out at politicians who “think that sovereignty is more important than public safety”. He also suggested a “Brexit” would make Britain more vulnerable to a Paris-style terror attack.

    A rather difficult claim to back up past the initial handwaving. Intelligence sharing will continue. ID documents will be inspected on borders where they now are not. We will be much freer to chuck out undesirables. The irony is we are the big player for intelligence in Western Europe, so its the other countries that are likely to suffer this problem not us if anyone get pissy.

    You are either open or secure, you can't have both.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Poor Boris, getting kicked by his own side, again.

    Boris Johnson came under savage attack today from his own Tory deputy mayor in charge of policing, who warned he will endanger London if he succeeds in his campaign for Britain to leave the EU.

    Stephen Greenhalgh, who oversees the Met, hit out at politicians who “think that sovereignty is more important than public safety”. He also suggested a “Brexit” would make Britain more vulnerable to a Paris-style terror attack.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mayor-s-own-police-chief-warns-him-quitting-eu-will-place-capital-in-peril-a3189926.html

    suggested a “Brexit” would make Britain more vulnerable to a Paris-style terror attack

    A stupid claim.
    The only thing that has made us vulnerable to a Paris-Style attack is mass immigration over the last 40-50 years
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,383
    OT: Listening to the narratives and subnarratives in the POTUS race reminded me of this one:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfuwNU0jsk0
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Great Brexit piece by Melanie Philips today http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/opinion/columnists/article4699609.ece
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    You would think that countries with a vested interest in keeping Britain in the EU would be straining every sinew to avoid us been outvoted 72 times and wondering if the whole thing was worth the candle.

    They didn't. And so they deserve everything they get. Vote with the French and take the consequences.
  • @philipjcowley · 28m28 minutes ago

    There's a general election in Ireland today.

    And the BBC website top story is about a republican primary...

    That's the real BBC bias -- concentration on American domestic stories because the staff have the US news channels on. It is particularly noticeable at weekends and early mornings. The BBC also had the Kansas shooting story.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited February 2016

    Stephen Greenhalgh, who oversees the Met, hit out at politicians who “think that sovereignty is more important than public safety”. He also suggested a “Brexit” would make Britain more vulnerable to a Paris-style terror attack.

    Silly argument, of course. As is the opposite argument, which Leave sometimes attempt to make. But you can see, from a political point of view, why both sides would try to play on this issue.
  • That's reassuring.

    More than 130,00 refugees - 13 percent of the total who have arrived in Germany in the past 14 months - have vanished.

    The government admitted the bizarre statistic in answer to a question posed in the Bundestag parliament on Thursday by the Left Party.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3465171/More-130-000-migrants-vanished-Germany-13-cent-arrivals-14-months-government-reveals.html

    I would guess a decent number were multi-claimers.
  • isam said:

    Poor Boris, getting kicked by his own side, again.

    Boris Johnson came under savage attack today from his own Tory deputy mayor in charge of policing, who warned he will endanger London if he succeeds in his campaign for Britain to leave the EU.

    Stephen Greenhalgh, who oversees the Met, hit out at politicians who “think that sovereignty is more important than public safety”. He also suggested a “Brexit” would make Britain more vulnerable to a Paris-style terror attack.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mayor-s-own-police-chief-warns-him-quitting-eu-will-place-capital-in-peril-a3189926.html

    suggested a “Brexit” would make Britain more vulnerable to a Paris-style terror attack

    A stupid claim.
    The only thing that has made us vulnerable to a Paris-Style attack is mass immigration over the last 40-50 years
    What makes us vulnerable is Eurostar to Belgium which is apparently where black market guns are traded.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,270

    Poor Boris, getting kicked by his own side, again.

    Boris Johnson came under savage attack today from his own Tory deputy mayor in charge of policing, who warned he will endanger London if he succeeds in his campaign for Britain to leave the EU.

    Stephen Greenhalgh, who oversees the Met, hit out at politicians who “think that sovereignty is more important than public safety”. He also suggested a “Brexit” would make Britain more vulnerable to a Paris-style terror attack.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mayor-s-own-police-chief-warns-him-quitting-eu-will-place-capital-in-peril-a3189926.html

    And this Stephen Greenhalgh currently has a role in the public safety of our capital?

    *shakes head in wonder*
  • Poor Boris, getting kicked by his own side, again.

    Boris Johnson came under savage attack today from his own Tory deputy mayor in charge of policing, who warned he will endanger London if he succeeds in his campaign for Britain to leave the EU.

    Stephen Greenhalgh, who oversees the Met, hit out at politicians who “think that sovereignty is more important than public safety”. He also suggested a “Brexit” would make Britain more vulnerable to a Paris-style terror attack.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mayor-s-own-police-chief-warns-him-quitting-eu-will-place-capital-in-peril-a3189926.html

    Back on the terrorist nonsense. Obviously they think people believe this crap (from both sides).
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    Just watched QT, we all know how dreadful Abbott is but if Truss is the best the tories can put forward our politics is at an all time though. Stuffed dummies parrotting rehearsed lines.

    I like that vicar.

    Truss is absolutely dreadful. I cannot forget (or forgive) that awful conference speech.
    I do not know why some folk rate her as a future Leader. To my mind Andrea Leadsom is a lady of real substance. She comes across as a very able manager. Telling Osborne to eff off takes real cojones.
    She's done a downright awful job at Energy though. Worse than Huhne and Davey.
    why?
    Well for one she wants to u-turn on wind subsidies. She has put through new legislation to shut down our last coal fired plants sharpening our energy crisis and she has made CCGTs completely and utterly uncompetitive, despite very low gas prices. Her stopgap plan is a bunch of dirty diesel generators to stop the lights from going out in 2017-2019.

    Honestly, the department is pretty farcical. The duality of having both energy and climate change in a single department is crazy, that's not her fault. Not ignoring climate change in favour of short term energy security is her fault though. I don't think people are going to care about carbon emissions if the lights go out during Christmas.
    If lights are going out in 2017 that would be based on decisions taken up to 10 years beforehand. So we are looking at the last 3 years of the Labour Govt and those made under Huhne & Davey in the Coalition. Correct me if I am wrong but wind farms are still going in and it is just plans for ones that would become operational in 2020+ that would be affected by cutting back wind subsidies now. There is a very long period of design/approval/build/install/grid change to overcome. Not something that gets delivered in 12 months.
    There is no serious scenario for a Sindy ref 2 to pass other than $200 a barrell.

    Brexit makes it even less likely to succeed as would involve the Euro.

    If you want an independent Scotland you need Gulf War 3 - perhaps explains what McGarry was up to.

  • I dislike UKIP as much as anyone but really worrying police get involved if a child shows interest in a non-violent party.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited February 2016
    I wonder if the BBC will send 120 bods this time to watch Trump’s inauguration as POTUS..!

    :lol:

    The BBC and Sky are transfixed by Trump.

    It's bizarre.

    Pulpstar said:

    @philipjcowley · 28m28 minutes ago
    There's a general election in Ireland today.
    And the BBC website top story is about a republican primary...

    About a debate for a republican primary no less. Extraordinary.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Stephen Greenhalgh, who oversees the Met, hit out at politicians who “think that sovereignty is more important than public safety”. He also suggested a “Brexit” would make Britain more vulnerable to a Paris-style terror attack.

    Silly argument, of course. As is the opposite argument, which Leave sometimes attempt to make. But you can see, from a political point of view, why both sides would try to play on this issue.
    Only silly in an EEA solution. The full kipper solution would have prospects of being substantially more secure, since we could kick out all the malcontents (since they propose withdrawing from the ECHR) and we would have full control over who we let it.

    Yes, lots of people will bang on about how that would damage trade by X%, but that might start to look rather hollow if there was a major terrorist incident in London. I have always thought we are about three terrorist incidents away from a kipper government and Fortress UK.
  • ... in the event of EU chaos being inside and having a big influence on outcomes may well be better than being on the outside with no control and with an EU that really would not be interested in accommodating the UK

    I am struggling with this idea that the UK has a big influence on what the EU decides to do. When has it ever happened before? Someone posted on here a while back figures that showed the UK was the most frequently out-voted country in the EU. We seem to have had remarkably little influence over the years and once the EuroZone countries start voting as a block we will have even less.

    Dan the Man wrote a piece that contended that the UK's 'influence' was actually negative when it came to European decision making.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,896

    Regarding the negotiations with the EC after/if we have a LEAVE vote.

    Qn So Mr EC, you want full access to our fish and to sell us all the german cars, french produce etc etc and allow our people to spend billions around the Med on holiday in your countries?
    Ans:Yes
    Qn So for these privileges you want us to also pay you £11billion a year and allow anyone of the 450m EC citizens the right to come into our country and compete for every job the same as a UK citizen and that you will dictate how we make and build every product and service we produce and to carry on creating half our laws for us?
    Ans Yes
    Anyone spot the problem?

    Yup. What about all the Brits who’ve gone to live and very often work or study in other member countries. Too many leavers seem to assume that migtration in the EU is one way traffic.
  • Poor Boris, getting kicked by his own side, again.

    Boris Johnson came under savage attack today from his own Tory deputy mayor in charge of policing, who warned he will endanger London if he succeeds in his campaign for Britain to leave the EU.

    Stephen Greenhalgh, who oversees the Met, hit out at politicians who “think that sovereignty is more important than public safety”. He also suggested a “Brexit” would make Britain more vulnerable to a Paris-style terror attack.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mayor-s-own-police-chief-warns-him-quitting-eu-will-place-capital-in-peril-a3189926.html

    And this Stephen Greenhalgh currently has a role in the public safety of our capital?

    *shakes head in wonder*
    except people in lifts?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,383

    I feel guilty for laughing at this

    THE BBC is to launch a £10m probe into claims of sexually suggestive language in its 1970s cartoons.

    The inquiry will focus on previously false allegations that popular children’s programme Captain Pugwash included references to masturbation, under-age sex and seminal fluid.

    A spokesman said: “We’ve decided that a ‘Pugwash’ means being urinated on simultaneously by four Radio One DJs.”


    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-entertainment/bbc-to-investigate-pugwash-rumours-2012102946725

    I don't. It is excellent.
  • ... in the event of EU chaos being inside and having a big influence on outcomes may well be better than being on the outside with no control and with an EU that really would not be interested in accommodating the UK

    I am struggling with this idea that the UK has a big influence on what the EU decides to do. When has it ever happened before? Someone posted on here a while back figures that showed the UK was the most frequently out-voted country in the EU. We seem to have had remarkably little influence over the years and once the EuroZone countries start voting as a block we will have even less.

    The point I was making is that the EU in civil war with each other is an opportunity to have an influence if we are in. How long can even the Eurozone survive if they are at war with each other. A very different EU is likely to evolve over the next few years with possibly Merkel and Hollande gone next year.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Regarding the negotiations with the EC after/if we have a LEAVE vote.

    Qn So Mr EC, you want full access to our fish and to sell us all the german cars, french produce etc etc and allow our people to spend billions around the Med on holiday in your countries?
    Ans:Yes
    Qn So for these privileges you want us to also pay you £11billion a year and allow anyone of the 450m EC citizens the right to come into our country and compete for every job the same as a UK citizen and that you will dictate how we make and build every product and service we produce and to carry on creating half our laws for us?
    Ans Yes
    Anyone spot the problem?

    Yup. What about all the Brits who’ve gone to live and very often work or study in other member countries. Too many leavers seem to assume that migtration in the EU is one way traffic.
    Because no one did that before 1972. Or indeed does it now in non-EU countries... Oh wait.
  • TCPoliticalBettingTCPoliticalBetting Posts: 10,819
    edited February 2016


    Boris Johnson came under savage attack today from his own Tory deputy mayor in charge of policing, who warned he will endanger London if he succeeds in his campaign for Britain to leave the EU.
    Stephen Greenhalgh, who oversees the Met, hit out at politicians who “think that sovereignty is more important than public safety”. He also suggested a “Brexit” would make Britain more vulnerable to a Paris-style terror attack.
    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mayor-s-own-police-chief-warns-him-quitting-eu-will-place-capital-in-peril-a3189926.html

    Is he aware of the Five Eyes group of countries? One of which is not France, or Belgium or......
  • RogerRoger Posts: 20,062
    edited February 2016

    Andrew Sinclair
    Interesting revelation from @BBCr4today ; russian TV shows pics of Jaywick in Essex as sign of how grim life is in UK

    I saw 'Grimsby' yesterday with Sacha Baron Cohen. I don't know what the Russians did to Jaywick but what SBC did to Grimsby is a wonder to behold! His location finder deserves an Oscar for one scene alone. It looked like it was taken during the blitz after a sewage works had been emptied over it... and made funny by the line 'Of course he wouldn't recognize it now it's been gentrified'
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756

    ... in the event of EU chaos being inside and having a big influence on outcomes may well be better than being on the outside with no control and with an EU that really would not be interested in accommodating the UK

    I am struggling with this idea that the UK has a big influence on what the EU decides to do. When has it ever happened before? Someone posted on here a while back figures that showed the UK was the most frequently out-voted country in the EU. We seem to have had remarkably little influence over the years and once the EuroZone countries start voting as a block we will have even less.

    The point I was making is that the EU in civil war with each other is an opportunity to have an influence if we are in. How long can even the Eurozone survive if they are at war with each other. A very different EU is likely to evolve over the next few years with possibly Merkel and Hollande gone next year.
    One of the reasons why I would have liked to see the Referendum delayed is to see what indeed takes place, after the French and Dutch elections.
  • Regarding the negotiations with the EC after/if we have a LEAVE vote.

    Qn So Mr EC, you want full access to our fish and to sell us all the german cars, french produce etc etc and allow our people to spend billions around the Med on holiday in your countries?
    Ans:Yes
    Qn So for these privileges you want us to also pay you £11billion a year and allow anyone of the 450m EC citizens the right to come into our country and compete for every job the same as a UK citizen and that you will dictate how we make and build every product and service we produce and to carry on creating half our laws for us?
    Ans Yes
    Anyone spot the problem?

    Yup. What about all the Brits who’ve gone to live and very often work or study in other member countries. Too many leavers seem to assume that migtration in the EU is one way traffic.
    Most of those are retirements within the EC. If Spain does not want wealthy self funding retirees anymore it could change its mind but it welcomes retirees and holiday home purchasers from outside the EC such as Russians.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,756

    Poor Boris, getting kicked by his own side, again.

    Boris Johnson came under savage attack today from his own Tory deputy mayor in charge of policing, who warned he will endanger London if he succeeds in his campaign for Britain to leave the EU.

    Stephen Greenhalgh, who oversees the Met, hit out at politicians who “think that sovereignty is more important than public safety”. He also suggested a “Brexit” would make Britain more vulnerable to a Paris-style terror attack.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/mayor-s-own-police-chief-warns-him-quitting-eu-will-place-capital-in-peril-a3189926.html

    And this Stephen Greenhalgh currently has a role in the public safety of our capital?

    *shakes head in wonder*
    I'd have thought that sovereignty enhances public safety. At any rate, I don't see it as an either/or choice between sovereignty and public safety.
  • NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    Sean_F said:

    ... in the event of EU chaos being inside and having a big influence on outcomes may well be better than being on the outside with no control and with an EU that really would not be interested in accommodating the UK

    I am struggling with this idea that the UK has a big influence on what the EU decides to do. When has it ever happened before? Someone posted on here a while back figures that showed the UK was the most frequently out-voted country in the EU. We seem to have had remarkably little influence over the years and once the EuroZone countries start voting as a block we will have even less.

    The point I was making is that the EU in civil war with each other is an opportunity to have an influence if we are in. How long can even the Eurozone survive if they are at war with each other. A very different EU is likely to evolve over the next few years with possibly Merkel and Hollande gone next year.
    One of the reasons why I would have liked to see the Referendum delayed is to see what indeed takes place, after the French and Dutch elections.
    Agreed - I never really saw the reason for the hurry except that Cameron thought it was politically expedient to get it out of the way. By Sep 2017 we might have had a far clearer idea of what we will or will not be voting for.
  • Sean_F said:

    ... in the event of EU chaos being inside and having a big influence on outcomes may well be better than being on the outside with no control and with an EU that really would not be interested in accommodating the UK

    I am struggling with this idea that the UK has a big influence on what the EU decides to do. When has it ever happened before? Someone posted on here a while back figures that showed the UK was the most frequently out-voted country in the EU. We seem to have had remarkably little influence over the years and once the EuroZone countries start voting as a block we will have even less.

    The point I was making is that the EU in civil war with each other is an opportunity to have an influence if we are in. How long can even the Eurozone survive if they are at war with each other. A very different EU is likely to evolve over the next few years with possibly Merkel and Hollande gone next year.
    One of the reasons why I would have liked to see the Referendum delayed is to see what indeed takes place, after the French and Dutch elections.
    It would have been sensible but no doubt David Cameron wanted to resolve the issue quickly in the economic interest of the Country and no doubt to provide him with a handover of power earlier if he wanted. As a matter of interest can someone confirm to me that by being out we will not come under the European Courts of Human Rights
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited February 2016

    Sean_F said:

    ... in the event of EU chaos being inside and having a big influence on outcomes may well be better than being on the outside with no control and with an EU that really would not be interested in accommodating the UK

    I am struggling with this idea that the UK has a big influence on what the EU decides to do. When has it ever happened before? Someone posted on here a while back figures that showed the UK was the most frequently out-voted country in the EU. We seem to have had remarkably little influence over the years and once the EuroZone countries start voting as a block we will have even less.

    The point I was making is that the EU in civil war with each other is an opportunity to have an influence if we are in. How long can even the Eurozone survive if they are at war with each other. A very different EU is likely to evolve over the next few years with possibly Merkel and Hollande gone next year.
    One of the reasons why I would have liked to see the Referendum delayed is to see what indeed takes place, after the French and Dutch elections.
    It would have been sensible but no doubt David Cameron wanted to resolve the issue quickly in the economic interest of the Country and no doubt to provide him with a handover of power earlier if he wanted. As a matter of interest can someone confirm to me that by being out we will not come under the European Courts of Human Rights
    Depends how far out. It's a separate concern, but some (UKIP have it in their manifesto) propose to withdraw from the ECHR at the same time, precisely because its the only way we can expel terrorist sympathisers and fellow travellers with UK dependents or relatives. As it is we have to spend a LOT of money and resources monitoring known bad eggs because we can't throw them out.
  • Here's what has happened. Tory private polling has shown the country won't elect Corbyn as PM as he is seen as a risk to national security.

    Remain think the same applies to the EURef, people won't vote for Leave if it is seen as a threat to national security.
  • @philipjcowley · 28m28 minutes ago

    There's a general election in Ireland today.

    And the BBC website top story is about a republican primary...

    Thanks for reminding us of this anomaly.
    Portia Simpson Miller lost the Jamaican election and Labour are back in power there having promised a silicon valley revolution....
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,663
    Sheikh Salman bin Ebrahim al-Khalifa,
    Gianni Infantino,
    Prince Ali bin al-Hussein,
    Tokyo Sexwale
    and Jerome Champagne

    Best names ever

  • Liverpool v Manure in the Europa League
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Here's what has happened. Tory private polling has shown the country won't elect Corbyn as PM as he is seen as a risk to national security.

    Remain think the same applies to the EURef, people won't vote for Leave if it is seen as a threat to national security.

    The only flaw in that excellent plan (and I admit it's a small one) is that people also wont vote for people that look like goddamn liars.
  • IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/if-the-migrant-crisis-goes-on-like-this-there-may-be-no-eu-for-britain-to-leave/
    Imagine if Nigel Farage declared that police should be ready to shoot migrants trying to make it from Calais to Britain; saying: ‘I don’t want to do this, but the use of armed force is there as a last resort.’ And imagine that in spite of this — or perhaps because of it — Ukip were to overtake the Labour party in a national poll to become the most popular opposition party. This, in effect, is what is happening in Germany.
  • MattW said:

    I feel guilty for laughing at this

    THE BBC is to launch a £10m probe into claims of sexually suggestive language in its 1970s cartoons.

    The inquiry will focus on previously false allegations that popular children’s programme Captain Pugwash included references to masturbation, under-age sex and seminal fluid.

    A spokesman said: “We’ve decided that a ‘Pugwash’ means being urinated on simultaneously by four Radio One DJs.”


    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-entertainment/bbc-to-investigate-pugwash-rumours-2012102946725

    I don't. It is excellent.
    You're like a priest granting me absolution.
This discussion has been closed.