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    pbr2013 said:

    Sean_F said:

    On the subject of favourite books... Basically I recommend everything ever written by John Wyndham. I regard him as one of Britain's greatest ever novelists - and certainly one of the best story tellers. It's a pity that sci-fi is rather looked down on - if he'd chosen any other genre instead then he'd surely be universally (no pun intended) and instantly thought of along with all the usual greats of British literature.

    On the subject of favourite books... Basically I recommend everything ever written by John Wyndham. I regard him as one of Britain's greatest ever novelists - and certainly one of the best story tellers. It's a pity that sci-fi is rather looked down on - if he'd chosen any other genre instead then he'd surely be universally (no pun intended) and instantly thought of along with all the usual greats of British literature.

    I've only read the Day of the Triffids, but that is an extremely good novel.
    Midwich Cuckoos, Chrysalids and the Kraken wakes are all great.
    John Wyndham was a terrific writer. Excellent Sci-Fi. I must admit that on the British Sci Fi writers front I also used to really like Edmund Cooper and have a real soft spot for Michael Moorcock.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    John_M said:

    DavidL said:

    taffys said:

    John Le Carre is pretty great. Tinker Tailor and all that.

    I liked him at the time but his world weariness and down beat attitude to Britain got too much eventually. I preferred Len Deighton, especially his Game Set and Match series.

    Otherwise I admire Cyclefree's erudition but I prefer

    God emperor of Dune by Frank Herbert
    Excession by Iain Banks
    Thief of time by Pratchett (and pretty much anything else by him)
    The Witching hour by Anne Rice
    Intellectual I ain't.
    I'm probably a fellow traveller:

    Cryptonomicon (Stephenson)
    Flashman in the Great Game (GMF ofc)
    Player of Games (Banks)
    Dune (Herbert)
    A Song for Arbonne (Kay)
    The Little Drummer Girl (Le Carre)
    The Hammer & The Cross trilogy (Harrison) - particularly recommended to M. Dancer.
    I'll play:

    The Saga of the Exiles, The Intervention, Jack the Bodiless etc (Julian May) - My fav
    Lord and Ladies - (Terry Pratchett) - Elves as you have never seen them before!
    Money The Unauthorized Biography (Felix Martin) - Fascinating
    Count of Monte Cristo, Three/Four Musketeers etc (Alexander Dumas)
    Hagakure (Yamamoto Tsunetomo) and The Art of War (Sun Tzu)
    Thinking, Fast and Slow ( Daniel Kahneman)
    Some of Mario Puzo (Godfather) & Tom Clancy (Red Storm Rising)
    Most of Michael Moorcock & George Martin
    Plus loads of coding books, crypto books, homeschooling books and other tedium you wont need ;)
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    If this is true, we have a contest, Ladies and Gentlemen:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/700744561228914689
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    DavidL said:

    Perhaps Gove's odds for next leader need to be looked at. He will take a lot of the rubbish from remain apart but he will do it with that elegant politeness of his which will not burn bridges. Puts him in a good place.

    I rate Gove probably higher than any other member of the cabinet but I was under the impression he had continuously and adamantly said he did not want to be PM>
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    I'm looking at the last day schedules for the GOP candidates:

    Rubio has 3 events on the coast (already cancelled one), 1 in Columbia, and 1 upstate.
    Cruz has 2 in Columbia and 1 upstate.
    Bush has 3 upstate.
    Kasich has 2 on the coast.
    Carson has 2 in small mid state towns.
    Trump has 5 on the coast and 1 upstate (he doesn't have an internal pollster so he probably uses intuition rather than data as to where to go).

    For simplicity reasons the coast is moderate, mid state is the black belt, Columbia is establishment, upstate is conservative.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    DavidL said:

    Perhaps Gove's odds for next leader need to be looked at. He will take a lot of the rubbish from remain apart but he will do it with that elegant politeness of his which will not burn bridges. Puts him in a good place.

    Theo Paphitis sounded like he was leaning toward leave on Question Time last night - also Leave needs to make a big push to get Portillo more involved.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited February 2016
    .
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    If this is true, we have a contest, Ladies and Gentlemen:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/700744561228914689

    Remain are rather lucky May has seemed to confirm that she is for remain rather than leave. Gove and May would have been a tremendous blow.
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    The best thing about Gove coming out for Brexit is that it will allow the party to heal post referendum.

    He won't use it to try and topple Dave or undo the Cameroon project.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307

    DavidL said:

    Perhaps Gove's odds for next leader need to be looked at. He will take a lot of the rubbish from remain apart but he will do it with that elegant politeness of his which will not burn bridges. Puts him in a good place.

    I rate Gove probably higher than any other member of the cabinet but I was under the impression he had continuously and adamantly said he did not want to be PM>
    But if duty calls. If confirmed this is a big call. One of the inside Cameroons breaking ranks.
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    The best thing about Gove coming out for Brexit is that it will allow the party to heal post referendum.

    He won't use it to try and topple Dave or undo the Cameroon project.

    Plus if he doesn't want to be PM then if he backs a Cameroon like Osborne for successor then that could cement rather than topple Cameroonism.
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    sladeslade Posts: 1,932
    I read non-fiction for pleasure not enlightenment. Over the years my tastes have changed. I loved Jules Verne as a child. I later read all of Dennis Wheatley - I still have 22 of them on my bookshelf! In the last year I have become intrigued by women novelists writing about medieval Britain. I like Sharon Penman and Ann O'Brien.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307
    Catching and batting practice the order of the day tomorrow.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898

    If this is true, we have a contest, Ladies and Gentlemen:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/700744561228914689

    It's now not impossible that in the absence of anything approaching a sensible deal, half the cabinet will break for Leave.

    As was pointed out down thread, the news today will be one long PPB for the Leave campaign, showing how the EU is completely unreformable, inward looking and held to ransom by narrow French interests.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    edited February 2016
    How many missed catches now? Grr.

    Edit. Apart from that one, obviously! Well done Joe Root.

    SA 76/3, need 59 from 46 balls.
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    Steven_WhaleySteven_Whaley Posts: 313
    edited February 2016



    John Wyndham was a terrific writer. Excellent Sci-Fi. I must admit that on the British Sci Fi writers front I also used to really like Edmund Cooper and have a real soft spot for Michael Moorcock.

    Yes, I think one of Wyndham's greatest strengths is that his characters are easy to relate to and behave in realistic ways. He put ordinary people into extraordinary situations and, because he understood human nature so well, it was all completely plausible.

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    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Sandpit said:

    If this is true, we have a contest, Ladies and Gentlemen:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/700744561228914689

    It's now not impossible that in the absence of anything approaching a sensible deal, half the cabinet will break for Leave.

    As was pointed out down thread, the news today will be one long PPB for the Leave campaign, showing how the EU is completely unreformable, inward looking and held to ransom by narrow French interests.
    I would be surprised if Javid backs Remain.
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    I can't see Gove working with Boris in the sense of wanting to help Boris become PM, though.
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    If this is true, we have a contest, Ladies and Gentlemen:

    Remain are rather lucky May has seemed to confirm that she is for remain rather than leave. Gove and May would have been a tremendous blow.
    Yes, May blew it.
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    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    SeanT said:

    Gove is a boon for LEAVE, but he will alienate lefties. Still think Boris is the one with cut-through. A proven winner, in a left wing city, and the most popular Tory politician.

    However I reckon he'll bottle it, probably....

    Old school Labour voters wont need a politician telling them, immigration and its effect on their pocket have already done it.

    The Guardinaista, both Lab and Con, wont LEAVE no matter what
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    Sandpit said:

    If this is true, we have a contest, Ladies and Gentlemen:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/700744561228914689

    It's now not impossible that in the absence of anything approaching a sensible deal, half the cabinet will break for Leave.

    As was pointed out down thread, the news today will be one long PPB for the Leave campaign, showing how the EU is completely unreformable, inward looking and held to ransom by narrow French interests.
    Which is why it's not completely impossible that Cameron will come out for Leave. It's not likely but if Cameron knows that half the cabinet will go for Leave then he will too.
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    The best thing about Gove coming out for Brexit is that it will allow the party to heal post referendum.

    He won't use it to try and topple Dave or undo the Cameroon project.

    Does it make it easier for Cameroons like you to back Brexit?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    If this is true, we have a contest, Ladies and Gentlemen:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/700744561228914689

    Remain are rather lucky May has seemed to confirm that she is for remain rather than leave. Gove and May would have been a tremendous blow.
    I still think May is playing her cards close to her chest. She still has wiggle room on the actual deal....
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    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    SeanT said:

    Gove is a boon for LEAVE, but he will alienate lefties. Still think Boris is the one with cut-through. A proven winner, in a left wing city, and the most popular Tory politician.

    However I reckon he'll bottle it, probably....

    I'm not so sure SeanT. It always strikes me that Boris has a very deep understanding of history when you read his Telegraph articles, and he will be well aware where the Euro and the whole European project is going by extension, and that is not a very pretty place.

    We've already seen the first domino fall which is Schengen, and the rest is going to be a domino effect culminating in the collapse of the Euro and the whole European project after that in short order.

    Boris will be on the right side of history and on the right side to further his leadership ambitions if he grasps the nettle and joins the leave campaign.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    Gove still 16/1 for next Tory leader, 20/1 with Coral and 25/1 with Boyle.
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    The best thing about Gove coming out for Brexit is that it will allow the party to heal post referendum.

    He won't use it to try and topple Dave or undo the Cameroon project.

    Does it make it easier for Cameroons like you to back Brexit?
    Personally, yes. I've said all along I'm leaning Remain but not 100% for Remain. Gove is the kind of person who could convince me to switch.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Indigo said:


    I agree you need to be prepared to walk away, but has Cameron ever said he was not prepared to walk away? I thought he said the opposite, but that he did not believe he would have to walk away which is a very different thing.

    But Cameron said some years ago that he could not conceive of the circumstances in which the UK would be better off outside the EU. Cameron, as befits his class and status, is a committed Europhile. The referendum was granted as a matter of party political expediency, with, I think, the full intention of doing a Wilson. His problems stem from his basic dishonesty - if he had been serious and been prepared to walk away then he wouldn't be where he is today.
    And he has said repeatedly since the referendum was called that he was prepared to walk away and Leave the EU.

    What precisely more do you think he should have done. Of course he wasn't saying we should leave before he called the referendum, he didn't think that and if he did say that he'd have to campaign to get us to leave. But since the referendum has called he's said repeatedly we could leave.

    You seem to think he should have got a Delorean or Tardis to change statements made before the referendum decision was made rather than judge him on what was said ever since it was.
    Christ on a bike, are you trying to tie Mr Nabavi for the No Credibility Whatsoever Trophy this month. He wont leave, ever. We know you love Dave, we get it, but banging on about how he is going to leave when he wont is just idiotic. He is a politician, he chose his words very carefully, "I will leave if I cant get a deal". This makes no claim about how pointless this deal has to be, it just means when push comes to shove he will except any old crap rather than leave, which is why he has been offered - any old crap.
    Christ your reading comprehension is atrocious. Please point out where I said that Cameron is going to leave?
    You linked several newspaper articles where Cameron is quoted as saying if he cant get what he wants he will leave. Its nonsense, he wont. He will reduce his demands to infinitesimal levels if he has to, so he will get a nominal deal, and then not leave. That it what I said above.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307



    John Wyndham was a terrific writer. Excellent Sci-Fi. I must admit that on the British Sci Fi writers front I also used to really like Edmund Cooper and have a real soft spot for Michael Moorcock.

    Yes, I think one of Wyndham's greatest strengths is that his characters are easy to relate to and behave in realistic ways. He put ordinary people into extraordinary situations and, because he understood human nature so well, it was all completely plausible.

    Different opinions. I think that is his greatest weakness. Every character is an Everyman and character development is non existent. He is much more interested in the story and the ideas and those are very good.
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    Sandpit said:

    Gove still 16/1 for next Tory leader, 20/1 with Coral and 25/1 with Boyle.

    Next PM 33/1, several bookies
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    Personally, yes. I've said all along I'm leaning Remain but not 100% for Remain. Gove is the kind of person who could convince me to switch.

    I'd certainly listen very carefully to Gove.
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    New Thread New Thread

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    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:


    I agree you need to be prepared to walk away, but has Cameron ever said he was not prepared to walk away? I thought he said the opposite, but that he did not believe he would have to walk away which is a very different thing.

    But Cameron said some years ago that he could not conceive of the circumstances in which the UK would be better off outside the EU. Cameron, as befits his class and status, is a committed Europhile. The referendum was granted as a matter of party political expediency, with, I think, the full intention of doing a Wilson. His problems stem from his basic dishonesty - if he had been serious and been prepared to walk away then he wouldn't be where he is today.
    And he has said repeatedly since the referendum was called that he was prepared to walk away and Leave the EU.

    What precisely more do you think he should have done. Of course he wasn't saying we should leave before he called the referendum, he didn't think that and if he did say that he'd have to campaign to get us to leave. But since the referendum has called he's said repeatedly we could leave.

    You seem to think he should have got a Delorean or Tardis to change statements made before the referendum decision was made rather than judge him on what was said ever since it was.
    Christ on a bike, are you trying to tie Mr Nabavi for the No Credibility Whatsoever Trophy this month. He wont leave, ever. We know you love Dave, we get it, but banging on about how he is going to leave when he wont is just idiotic. He is a politician, he chose his words very carefully, "I will leave if I cant get a deal". This makes no claim about how pointless this deal has to be, it just means when push comes to shove he will except any old crap rather than leave, which is why he has been offered - any old crap.
    Christ your reading comprehension is atrocious. Please point out where I said that Cameron is going to leave?
    You linked several newspaper articles where Cameron is quoted as saying if he cant get what he wants he will leave. Its nonsense, he wont. He will reduce his demands to infinitesimal levels if he has to, so he will get a nominal deal, and then not leave. That it what I said above.
    I think he will get a deal so won't have to leave, which is what I've said all along. But that isn't the same as saying he will leave.
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    The best thing about Gove coming out for Brexit is that it will allow the party to heal post referendum.

    He won't use it to try and topple Dave or undo the Cameroon project.

    Does it make it easier for Cameroons like you to back Brexit?
    Personally, yes. I've said all along I'm leaning Remain but not 100% for Remain. Gove is the kind of person who could convince me to switch.
    Wow. I'd be delighted to have gentlemen like you and Richard Nabavi aboard!

    Please: don't lose that thought :-)
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    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    Incredible scenes in SA
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    Sandpit said:

    If this is true, we have a contest, Ladies and Gentlemen:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/700744561228914689

    It's now not impossible that in the absence of anything approaching a sensible deal, half the cabinet will break for Leave.

    As was pointed out down thread, the news today will be one long PPB for the Leave campaign, showing how the EU is completely unreformable, inward looking and held to ransom by narrow French interests.
    Which is why it's not completely impossible that Cameron will come out for Leave. It's not likely but if Cameron knows that half the cabinet will go for Leave then he will too.
    When hell freezes over.
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    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,780

    Sandpit said:

    If this is true, we have a contest, Ladies and Gentlemen:

    https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/700744561228914689

    It's now not impossible that in the absence of anything approaching a sensible deal, half the cabinet will break for Leave.

    As was pointed out down thread, the news today will be one long PPB for the Leave campaign, showing how the EU is completely unreformable, inward looking and held to ransom by narrow French interests.
    Which is why it's not completely impossible that Cameron will come out for Leave. It's not likely but if Cameron knows that half the cabinet will go for Leave then he will too.
    When hell freezes over.
    I share your (PT) view that it's possible. In fact I was looking around earlier to find an opportunity to back such an outcome. I'd have wanted at least 250-1 mind you.

    I don't think Cameron is this deep, but it would be a blinding long game to have put himself where he is and now come out for "Leave".
This discussion has been closed.