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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,755
    Pulpstar said:

    The only ever book I've read from start to finish in one go was Catcher in the Rye....

    try the hungry caterpillar
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    I kind of want Trump to win, just so all the buried bodies come out from the past 20 years. I expect the house of Saud is shitting bricks also at the thought.
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    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362

    Sandpit said:

    Afternoon. Still no deal then, with the French seemingly determined to drag the UK into the Eurozone rules on financial services.

    And despite a bright start, England about to fail to use all their overs for the third match running.

    The big game this weekend is Wigan v Brisbane. I doubt we will win however.
    You must look back to the days when the bulls use to win the world club championship easily.
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    Caron Linsey
    My husband actually thought that Cameron had achieved the change in the #eurovision voting. Words fail me.

    Brilliant!
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited February 2016
    SeanT said:

    Nick Clegg just tweeted THIS. Quite an astonishing intervention, when you think about it.

    Game changer?

    @nick_clegg
    To lead on the world stage, Britain must be leading in Europe. Vote to remain #INtogether @LDINtogether

    I think the continuation of Nick Clegg’s EU pension requires him to say that twice a month.

    :lol:
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307

    Pulpstar said:

    The only ever book I've read from start to finish in one go was Catcher in the Rye....

    try the hungry caterpillar
    Got the teenager who came to tea for Christmas. Excellent parody of a true classic.
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    Glen O'Hara @gsoh31
    Broxtowe #Labour's 34th target. Need it just to get back in game. On last nite's byelec evidence, they're going signif backwards there.

    (Professor of Modern and Contemporary History at Oxford Brookes)
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,755
    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The only ever book I've read from start to finish in one go was Catcher in the Rye....

    try the hungry caterpillar
    Got the teenager who came to tea for Christmas. Excellent parody of a true classic.
    Yes we have that for our son

    first he ate all the food, then he drank all the drink and then he just buggered off and left everyone else to clear up.
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    Not sure how Cameron can do a deal if this is as it appears to be.

    https://twitter.com/Elysee/status/700736771206721536

    Obviously, Cameron is looking for a deal for *all* non-Euro members but I doubt the French are bothered about what the Romanian finance industry is doing (and besides, there's only the UK, Danes and Swedes with legal opt-outs).
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Glen O'Hara @gsoh31
    Broxtowe #Labour's 34th target. Need it just to get back in game. On last nite's byelec evidence, they're going signif backwards there.

    (Professor of Modern and Contemporary History at Oxford Brookes)

    Although it was the most Tory part of the constituency which might not be representative of the rest of the seat.
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Something is going on with Rubio, this is the consecutive second major campaign event that he doesn't show up:

    https://twitter.com/RonNehring/status/700719775056535552

    Last night it was much worse since Cruz stole his show, and the host blasted Rubio publicly for his absence:

    https://twitter.com/mckaycoppins/status/700566709543940096
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Not sure how Cameron can do a deal if this is as it appears to be

    He'll just lie about it
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The only ever book I've read from start to finish in one go was Catcher in the Rye....

    try the hungry caterpillar
    Got the teenager who came to tea for Christmas. Excellent parody of a true classic.
    Yes we have that for our son

    first he ate all the food, then he drank all the drink and then he just buggered off and left everyone else to clear up.
    A profound insight into one aspect of the human condition.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited February 2016

    Pulpstar said:

    The PM's main problem is this ridiculously optimistic timetable he's set himself. I was expecting a couple of years of bilateral meetings to find compromise and so forth, which is why initially I thought the referendum would be in 2017.

    He's rushed it. Big style.

    I think the bilateral discussions were already fairly advanced before the election.
    I wonder if this is classic hubris-followed-by-nemesis. Let's face it, winning the election was a surprise to many of us, including (I assert!) Mr Cameron.

    Perhaps that gave him delusions of adequacy, causing him to serve up his small puddle of lukewarm vomit as some grand 'New Deal' for the UK on the basis of that delusion.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,755
    edited February 2016
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The only ever book I've read from start to finish in one go was Catcher in the Rye....

    try the hungry caterpillar
    Got the teenager who came to tea for Christmas. Excellent parody of a true classic.
    Yes we have that for our son

    first he ate all the food, then he drank all the drink and then he just buggered off and left everyone else to clear up.
    A profound insight into one aspect of the human condition.
    would you like to borrow him ? :-)

    I'll pay !
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    Sean_F said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MTimT said:

    Harper Lee has died. Wrote my favourite book.


    I wonder what other PBers' favorite books are. I would have a very hard time choosing, but Candide must be right up there.
    Four in my top 10 novels are:-

    - Vanity Fair
    - Anna Karenina
    - Jane Eyre
    - Animal Farm

    Seriously, Mrs Free? Such highbrow stuff? Makes me look such a pleb but the books that have given me the greatest pleasure and which I have read many times over the years are

    - Red Storm Rising (Tom Clancy)
    - Catch 22 (Joseph Heller)
    - Flashman in the Great Game (George macDonald Fraser)
    - Don Camillio, 1955 Omnibus Edition (Giovanni Guareschi)
    - Just about anything by P.G. Wodehouse
    Quite like Don Camillo. Have never got Wodehouse. I do like Waugh, though. Scoop is fantastic.

    .
    Wodehouse is probably the funniest writer ever, but I find it hard to distinguish one book from another, in my memory.
    In the foreword of copy of Summer Lightning that I had, which, alas, fell to Herself's great book purge, Wodehouse said something like:

    "... A critic said of my last book that it contained all the old Wodehouse characters but with different names. In this book I have out-generalled him. It contains all the old Wodehouse characters under the same names. He has, by now, probably been eaten by bears like the children who mocked the prophet Elijah ..."
    The reason why I couldn't put any individual Wodehouse novel in my top ten is that I'd find it hard to single out the one I enjoy the most. Perhaps he should be collectively in my top ten.

    There is much to treasure, be it his sick-making parody of "Christopher Robin is saying his prayers", Gussie Fink-Nottle presenting the school prizes when drunk, Sir Roderick Glossop the psychiatrist, describing his patients as "loony, not loony, keep him well away from the knives", Honoria Glossop's utter disgust when Jeeves informs her that Wooster is a drunk and a gambler, before declaring grimly "I shall reform him" (a rare occasion when one of Jeeves' Gambits fails).
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    Mr. StClare, I think Clegg just likes being dominated by other people.
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    Glen O'Hara @gsoh31
    Broxtowe #Labour's 34th target. Need it just to get back in game. On last nite's byelec evidence, they're going signif backwards there.

    (Professor of Modern and Contemporary History at Oxford Brookes)

    Yes.
    The by election results did not seem to signify any great sort of outpouring of disgust for the Tory party.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,008

    Speedy said:

    We have 3 S.C tracking polls today, they show widely different results for Cruz, Rubio, Bush and Kasich, so I will show changes since 2 days ago:

    ARG
    Trump 34 +1
    Cruz 13 -1
    Rubio 22 +8
    Bush 9 +1
    Kasich 14 0
    Carson 4 +1

    Emerson
    Trump 36 +3
    Cruz 18 -7
    Rubio 19 0
    Bush 9 +1
    Kasich 14 +1
    Carson 4 +1

    SC House GOP
    Trump 34 0
    Cruz 18 +2
    Rubio 16 +1
    Bush 14 -1
    Kasich 9 +1
    Carson 5 -2

    There will probably be some last updates from them tonight.

    Also there is a Colorado poll for the DEM caucus (Super Tuesday state)

    Sanders 49
    Hillary 43

    http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/colorado_democratic_caucus_survey_topline_final.pdf

    So Sanders is ahead in 3 out of the 10 Super Tuesday states that have been polled, the only state not to have been polled in Minnesota which should favour Sanders.
    If Sanders wins Nevada he will probably win 5 out of the 11 Super Tuesday states (Oklahoma is too close to call at present polling).

    Looking grim for Bush. He may continue though IMHO right through the primary season, if he's feeling selfish and thinking of the long game. A Rubio presidency means its over for Bush. A Trump GOP candidacy (helped by the failure of 'middle' ground candidates to coalesce around a single figure (helped by Bush pushing on), means good chance of a one term Clinton presidency and another go for Bush in 4 years.
    If Trump loses to Clinton then Cruz will likely be the GOP nominee in 2020. The Bush family would have to wait for Jeb's son George P in 2024
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    SeanT said:

    Hollande on French radio saying the big sticking point is UK protection for the City.

    He is refusing to yield, and won't give any nation "special treatment" etc etc

    Makes sense. I can't believe Cameron or the Slavs would go to the wire over child benefits. But finreg and the French, yes.

    But if the negotiations are about nothing then why are the French bothered?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    We have 3 S.C tracking polls today, they show widely different results for Cruz, Rubio, Bush and Kasich, so I will show changes since 2 days ago:

    ARG
    Trump 34 +1
    Cruz 13 -1
    Rubio 22 +8
    Bush 9 +1
    Kasich 14 0
    Carson 4 +1

    Emerson
    Trump 36 +3
    Cruz 18 -7
    Rubio 19 0
    Bush 9 +1
    Kasich 14 +1
    Carson 4 +1

    SC House GOP
    Trump 34 0
    Cruz 18 +2
    Rubio 16 +1
    Bush 14 -1
    Kasich 9 +1
    Carson 5 -2

    There will probably be some last updates from them tonight.

    Also there is a Colorado poll for the DEM caucus (Super Tuesday state)

    Sanders 49
    Hillary 43

    http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/colorado_democratic_caucus_survey_topline_final.pdf

    So Sanders is ahead in 3 out of the 10 Super Tuesday states that have been polled, the only state not to have been polled in Minnesota which should favour Sanders.
    If Sanders wins Nevada he will probably win 5 out of the 11 Super Tuesday states (Oklahoma is too close to call at present polling).

    Looking grim for Bush. He may continue though IMHO right through the primary season, if he's feeling selfish and thinking of the long game. A Rubio presidency means its over for Bush. A Trump GOP candidacy (helped by the failure of 'middle' ground candidates to coalesce around a single figure (helped by Bush pushing on), means good chance of a one term Clinton presidency and another go for Bush in 4 years.
    If Trump loses to Clinton then Cruz will likely be the GOP nominee in 2020. The Bush family would have to wait for Jeb's son George P in 2024
    George P vs Chelsea xD ?
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    SeanT said:

    Hollande on French radio saying the big sticking point is UK protection for the City.

    He is refusing to yield, and won't give any nation "special treatment" etc etc

    .


    French intransigence could lead to a punch up between France and Germany.
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    Here's a book recommendation:

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Blood-Roses-Helen-Castor/dp/0571216714

    It is based on a quite amazing series of letters from the fifteenth century, miraculously preserved by the Paston family, who rose during that period from obscurity to wealth and influence (they were lawyers!). You get to see the shifting power struggles of the War of the Roses, from the the point of view of landowners and minor nobility, with a Pepys-like mixture of domestic concerns and national events. It's a bit like modern Russia with a combination of due legal process and exercise of arbitrary power. Helen Castor very ably relates the letters to the wider picture.

    It's really very rare to get such an insight into the lives of people in the fifteenth century.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966


    I agree you need to be prepared to walk away, but has Cameron ever said he was not prepared to walk away? I thought he said the opposite, but that he did not believe he would have to walk away which is a very different thing.

    But Cameron said some years ago that he could not conceive of the circumstances in which the UK would be better off outside the EU. Cameron, as befits his class and status, is a committed Europhile. The referendum was granted as a matter of party political expediency, with, I think, the full intention of doing a Wilson. His problems stem from his basic dishonesty - if he had been serious and been prepared to walk away then he wouldn't be where he is today.
    And he has said repeatedly since the referendum was called that he was prepared to walk away and Leave the EU.

    What precisely more do you think he should have done. Of course he wasn't saying we should leave before he called the referendum, he didn't think that and if he did say that he'd have to campaign to get us to leave. But since the referendum has called he's said repeatedly we could leave.

    You seem to think he should have got a Delorean or Tardis to change statements made before the referendum decision was made rather than judge him on what was said ever since it was.
    Christ on a bike, are you trying to tie Mr Nabavi for the No Credibility Whatsoever Trophy this month. He wont leave, ever. We know you love Dave, we get it, but banging on about how he is going to leave when he wont is just idiotic. He is a politician, he chose his words very carefully, "I will leave if I cant get a deal". This makes no claim about how pointless this deal has to be, it just means when push comes to shove he will except any old crap rather than leave, which is why he has been offered - any old crap.
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    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    We have 3 S.C tracking polls today, they show widely different results for Cruz, Rubio, Bush and Kasich, so I will show changes since 2 days ago:

    ARG
    Trump 34 +1
    Cruz 13 -1
    Rubio 22 +8
    Bush 9 +1
    Kasich 14 0
    Carson 4 +1

    Emerson
    Trump 36 +3
    Cruz 18 -7
    Rubio 19 0
    Bush 9 +1
    Kasich 14 +1
    Carson 4 +1

    SC House GOP
    Trump 34 0
    Cruz 18 +2
    Rubio 16 +1
    Bush 14 -1
    Kasich 9 +1
    Carson 5 -2

    There will probably be some last updates from them tonight.

    Also there is a Colorado poll for the DEM caucus (Super Tuesday state)

    Sanders 49
    Hillary 43

    http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/colorado_democratic_caucus_survey_topline_final.pdf

    So Sanders is ahead in 3 out of the 10 Super Tuesday states that have been polled, the only state not to have been polled in Minnesota which should favour Sanders.
    If Sanders wins Nevada he will probably win 5 out of the 11 Super Tuesday states (Oklahoma is too close to call at present polling).

    Looking grim for Bush. He may continue though IMHO right through the primary season, if he's feeling selfish and thinking of the long game. A Rubio presidency means its over for Bush. A Trump GOP candidacy (helped by the failure of 'middle' ground candidates to coalesce around a single figure (helped by Bush pushing on), means good chance of a one term Clinton presidency and another go for Bush in 4 years.
    If Trump loses to Clinton then Cruz will likely be the GOP nominee in 2020. The Bush family would have to wait for Jeb's son George P in 2024
    Cruz in 2020? GOP fail to learn again?
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    SeanT said:

    runnymede said:

    Not sure how Cameron can do a deal if this is as it appears to be

    He'll just lie about it

    How can he lie, though? The document will be there for all to read. He can't hide it. If he has failed to get any protection for the City, indeed if - as some suggest - he has opened us up to EZ diktat, then it will be pounced on by lots of smart lawyers, brokers and bankers, the kind of people who donate to the Conservative Party and keep it in power.

    if Cameron loses the support of the City he loses the referendum. He can't afford to lie. He has to get something concrete. As I see it.
    I agree.
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    On the subject of favourite books... Basically I recommend everything ever written by John Wyndham. I regard him as one of Britain's greatest ever novelists - and certainly one of the best story tellers. It's a pity that sci-fi is rather looked down on - if he'd chosen any other genre instead then he'd surely be universally (no pun intended) and instantly thought of along with all the usual greats of British literature.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    @Speedy Plane engine troubles. Rescheduled for this evening.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited February 2016

    SeanT said:

    Hollande on French radio saying the big sticking point is UK protection for the City.

    He is refusing to yield, and won't give any nation "special treatment" etc etc

    Makes sense. I can't believe Cameron or the Slavs would go to the wire over child benefits. But finreg and the French, yes.

    But if the negotiations are about nothing then why are the French bothered?
    They're not bothered: they've just agreed to stage a fight to make it look like the negotiations are about something substantial.

    Cf: Andrew Lansley last year predicting a choreographed row in February 2016 https://www.politicshome.com/foreign-and-defence/articles/story/pm-plans-‘choreographed’-row-french-eu-campaign-report
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    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    We have 3 S.C tracking polls today, they show widely different results for Cruz, Rubio, Bush and Kasich, so I will show changes since 2 days ago:

    ARG
    Trump 34 +1
    Cruz 13 -1
    Rubio 22 +8
    Bush 9 +1
    Kasich 14 0
    Carson 4 +1

    Emerson
    Trump 36 +3
    Cruz 18 -7
    Rubio 19 0
    Bush 9 +1
    Kasich 14 +1
    Carson 4 +1

    SC House GOP
    Trump 34 0
    Cruz 18 +2
    Rubio 16 +1
    Bush 14 -1
    Kasich 9 +1
    Carson 5 -2

    There will probably be some last updates from them tonight.

    Also there is a Colorado poll for the DEM caucus (Super Tuesday state)

    Sanders 49
    Hillary 43

    http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/colorado_democratic_caucus_survey_topline_final.pdf

    So Sanders is ahead in 3 out of the 10 Super Tuesday states that have been polled, the only state not to have been polled in Minnesota which should favour Sanders.
    If Sanders wins Nevada he will probably win 5 out of the 11 Super Tuesday states (Oklahoma is too close to call at present polling).

    Looking grim for Bush. He may continue though IMHO right through the primary season, if he's feeling selfish and thinking of the long game. A Rubio presidency means its over for Bush. A Trump GOP candidacy (helped by the failure of 'middle' ground candidates to coalesce around a single figure (helped by Bush pushing on), means good chance of a one term Clinton presidency and another go for Bush in 4 years.
    If Trump loses to Clinton then Cruz will likely be the GOP nominee in 2020. The Bush family would have to wait for Jeb's son George P in 2024
    No one is going to vote for a Bush to be president again.
    Even Hillary has trouble beating a 74 year old Socialist, and Bill was far more popular than Bush (Clinton had 60-65% approval ratings, Bush had 25%).
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    Indigo said:


    I agree you need to be prepared to walk away, but has Cameron ever said he was not prepared to walk away? I thought he said the opposite, but that he did not believe he would have to walk away which is a very different thing.

    But Cameron said some years ago that he could not conceive of the circumstances in which the UK would be better off outside the EU. Cameron, as befits his class and status, is a committed Europhile. The referendum was granted as a matter of party political expediency, with, I think, the full intention of doing a Wilson. His problems stem from his basic dishonesty - if he had been serious and been prepared to walk away then he wouldn't be where he is today.
    And he has said repeatedly since the referendum was called that he was prepared to walk away and Leave the EU.

    What precisely more do you think he should have done. Of course he wasn't saying we should leave before he called the referendum, he didn't think that and if he did say that he'd have to campaign to get us to leave. But since the referendum has called he's said repeatedly we could leave.

    You seem to think he should have got a Delorean or Tardis to change statements made before the referendum decision was made rather than judge him on what was said ever since it was.
    Christ on a bike, are you trying to tie Mr Nabavi for the No Credibility Whatsoever Trophy this month. He wont leave, ever. We know you love Dave, we get it, but banging on about how he is going to leave when he wont is just idiotic. He is a politician, he chose his words very carefully, "I will leave if I cant get a deal". This makes no claim about how pointless this deal has to be, it just means when push comes to shove he will except any old crap rather than leave, which is why he has been offered - any old crap.
    Christ your reading comprehension is atrocious. Please point out where I said that Cameron is going to leave?
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,850

    On the subject of favourite books... Basically I recommend everything ever written by John Wyndham. I regard him as one of Britain's greatest ever novelists - and certainly one of the best story tellers. It's a pity that sci-fi is rather looked down on - if he'd chosen any other genre instead then he'd surely be universally (no pun intended) and instantly thought of along with all the usual greats of British literature.

    On the subject of favourite books... Basically I recommend everything ever written by John Wyndham. I regard him as one of Britain's greatest ever novelists - and certainly one of the best story tellers. It's a pity that sci-fi is rather looked down on - if he'd chosen any other genre instead then he'd surely be universally (no pun intended) and instantly thought of along with all the usual greats of British literature.

    I've only read the Day of the Triffids, but that is an extremely good novel.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Wow

    1980 United States presidential election, Result by County #map #maps https://t.co/LWhOmhjhNT
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'if Cameron loses the support of the City he loses the referendum. He can't afford to lie. He has to get something concrete. As I see it.'

    I think the decision has already been made to essentially fight this referendum on the basis of the status quo versus an 'uncertain' future.

    I don't think REMAIN is going to be putting any emphasis at all on the renegotiation - just look at their propaganda to date, it's all scaremongering based on the horrible consequences of Brexit.

    The lie will be the PM and the Europhiles denying any of the threats others see to the UK actually exist, just as they have lied about this for the last forty years.

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    SeanT said:

    Hollande on French radio saying the big sticking point is UK protection for the City.

    He is refusing to yield, and won't give any nation "special treatment" etc etc

    Makes sense. I can't believe Cameron or the Slavs would go to the wire over child benefits. But finreg and the French, yes.

    But if the negotiations are about nothing then why are the French bothered?
    Well, quite.

    Looks like the French agree with my take.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    Pulpstar said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    We have 3 S.C tracking polls today, they show widely different results for Cruz, Rubio, Bush and Kasich, so I will show changes since 2 days ago:

    ARG
    Trump 34 +1
    Cruz 13 -1
    Rubio 22 +8
    Bush 9 +1
    Kasich 14 0
    Carson 4 +1

    Emerson
    Trump 36 +3
    Cruz 18 -7
    Rubio 19 0
    Bush 9 +1
    Kasich 14 +1
    Carson 4 +1

    SC House GOP
    Trump 34 0
    Cruz 18 +2
    Rubio 16 +1
    Bush 14 -1
    Kasich 9 +1
    Carson 5 -2

    There will probably be some last updates from them tonight.

    Also there is a Colorado poll for the DEM caucus (Super Tuesday state)

    Sanders 49
    Hillary 43

    http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/colorado_democratic_caucus_survey_topline_final.pdf

    So Sanders is ahead in 3 out of the 10 Super Tuesday states that have been polled, the only state not to have been polled in Minnesota which should favour Sanders.
    If Sanders wins Nevada he will probably win 5 out of the 11 Super Tuesday states (Oklahoma is too close to call at present polling).

    Looking grim for Bush. He may continue though IMHO right through the primary season, if he's feeling selfish and thinking of the long game. A Rubio presidency means its over for Bush. A Trump GOP candidacy (helped by the failure of 'middle' ground candidates to coalesce around a single figure (helped by Bush pushing on), means good chance of a one term Clinton presidency and another go for Bush in 4 years.
    If Trump loses to Clinton then Cruz will likely be the GOP nominee in 2020. The Bush family would have to wait for Jeb's son George P in 2024
    George P vs Chelsea xD ?
    The thought of that is enough to want to see Trump v Sanders as the primary voters reject these professional political dynasties.
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    Didn't Lansley say there would be a dust up with the French just before a deal? Wonder if they will sell existing opt out for UK from single rule book as a victory, when its actually status quo.
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    AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 23,755

    SeanT said:

    Hollande on French radio saying the big sticking point is UK protection for the City.

    He is refusing to yield, and won't give any nation "special treatment" etc etc

    Makes sense. I can't believe Cameron or the Slavs would go to the wire over child benefits. But finreg and the French, yes.

    But if the negotiations are about nothing then why are the French bothered?
    Well, quite.

    Looks like the French agree with my take.
    Surrender to the Germans ?
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited February 2016
    O/T:

    "Google Translate introduces 13 new languages including Scots Gaelic and Sindhi"
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/35602377/google-translate-introduces-13-new-languages-including-scots-gaelic-and-sindhi
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited February 2016
    Made for each other

    Sam Coates
    Damian McBride to return to work for Emily Thornberry....
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    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    edited February 2016

    SeanT said:

    Hollande on French radio saying the big sticking point is UK protection for the City.

    He is refusing to yield, and won't give any nation "special treatment" etc etc

    Makes sense. I can't believe Cameron or the Slavs would go to the wire over child benefits. But finreg and the French, yes.

    But if the negotiations are about nothing then why are the French bothered?
    Well, quite.

    Looks like the French agree with my take.
    Well it was arranged 6 months ago

    "The plan, apparently, is for Cameron to have a “big row with the French” in February, which will be “choreographed” so that, when it is over, the Prime Minister will be able to claim that the terms of EU membership have been “renegotiated”. On that basis, he will call for a vote to say “yes” to continued membership of the bloc. The French are reportedly as anxious as Cameron is to keep Britain within the EU, so can be relied upon to play their part."

    http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/editorials/doublespeak-deciphered-andrew-lansley-dares-to-reveal-the-truth-about-david-camerons-eu-plan-10459808.html
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    It doesn't take a clairvoyant or a conspiracy to foretell a dust up with the French.
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    pbr2013pbr2013 Posts: 649

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MTimT said:

    Harper Lee has died. Wrote my favourite book.


    I wonder what other PBers' favorite books are. I would have a very hard time choosing, but Candide must be right up there.
    Four in my top 10 novels are:-

    - Vanity Fair
    - Anna Karenina
    - Jane Eyre
    - Animal Farm

    Seriously, Mrs Free? Such highbrow stuff? Makes me look such a pleb but the books that have given me the greatest pleasure and which I have read many times over the years are

    - Red Storm Rising (Tom Clancy)
    - Catch 22 (Joseph Heller)
    - Flashman in the Great Game (George macDonald Fraser)
    - Don Camillio, 1955 Omnibus Edition (Giovanni Guareschi)
    - Just about anything by P.G. Wodehouse
    Quite like Don Camillo. Have never got Wodehouse. I do like Waugh, though. Scoop is fantastic.

    Don Camillo is fantastic - a series of tales of love and hope. My father introduced him to me when I was about 10 and it is my Dad's copy of the book that sits on my shelf that I pick up whenever I feel pissed off at the world.

    Wodehouse is very, very English. I introduced my boy to it when he was about 12 and it didn't click at all. I tried again when he was 15 or so, same result. Yet a few months ago I was driving him back to Leeds and I put on a talking book of "Summer Lightning" and he loved it - he is now in the process of enjoying all the Wodehouse books for the first time. I envy him.
    I was in my 30s and in bed with flu when I heard a Radio 4 adaptation of Summer Lightning. Never turned back.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    taffys said:

    John Le Carre is pretty great. Tinker Tailor and all that.

    I liked him at the time but his world weariness and down beat attitude to Britain got too much eventually. I preferred Len Deighton, especially his Game Set and Match series.

    Otherwise I admire Cyclefree's erudition but I prefer

    Excession by Iain Banks
    Thief of time by Pratchett (and pretty much anything else by him)
    Funny how personal taste goes, I consider those 2 of the weaker books by both authors.
    That is weird. Player of Games rather than Excession I was tempted to go for but I think Excession is very funny as well as clever. Choosing the best Pratchett is a mugs game and I was tempted by any book featuring Granny Weatheraxe but the monks of time are a great idea.

    What are your favourites by those authors?
    Oops, I realise that I got Excession confused with Look to Windward. Excession is excellent.
  • Options

    On the subject of favourite books... Basically I recommend everything ever written by John Wyndham. I regard him as one of Britain's greatest ever novelists - and certainly one of the best story tellers. It's a pity that sci-fi is rather looked down on - if he'd chosen any other genre instead then he'd surely be universally (no pun intended) and instantly thought of along with all the usual greats of British literature.

    I read a book about persecuted psychics in post apocalyptic world trying to get to New Zealand by him. Was very good.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    I'd quite like Bush to beat Rubio as I am green on Bush (to a tiny amount) and red on Rubio.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307
    England clearly booked an early meal during the interval. Get this over with soonest.
  • Options
    Miss Plato, that's impressive. I didn't think I could feel any more contempt for Thornberry.
  • Options
    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966

    Mr. Felix, the idea people should only be able to comment or criticise the PM if they have been PM (or leader of another party) is sillier than a fluorescent gerbil.

    I had a plumber come around the other day to fix my sink. After he left it was still pissing water all over the floor, but I thought to myself "wait a minute, your not a plumber, you are not qualified to comment on his workmanship"
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    Pulpstar said:

    @Speedy Plane engine troubles. Rescheduled for this evening.

    US politicians do have a habit of renting the most unreliable planes.

    Either that or it's the most convenient plausible excuse, engine failures statistically occur much less frequently than reports of politicians being delayed by them!
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    We have 3 S.C tracking polls today, they show widely different results for Cruz, Rubio, Bush and Kasich, so I will show changes since 2 days ago:

    ARG
    Trump 34 +1
    Cruz 13 -1
    Rubio 22 +8
    Bush 9 +1
    Kasich 14 0
    Carson 4 +1

    Emerson
    Trump 36 +3
    Cruz 18 -7
    Rubio 19 0
    Bush 9 +1
    Kasich 14 +1
    Carson 4 +1

    SC House GOP
    Trump 34 0
    Cruz 18 +2
    Rubio 16 +1
    Bush 14 -1
    Kasich 9 +1
    Carson 5 -2

    There will probably be some last updates from them tonight.

    Also there is a Colorado poll for the DEM caucus (Super Tuesday state)

    Sanders 49
    Hillary 43

    http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/colorado_democratic_caucus_survey_topline_final.pdf

    So Sanders is ahead in 3 out of the 10 Super Tuesday states that have been polled, the only state not to have been polled in Minnesota which should favour Sanders.
    If Sanders wins Nevada he will probably win 5 out of the 11 Super Tuesday states (Oklahoma is too close to call at present polling).

    Looking grim for Bush. He may continue though IMHO right through the primary season, if he's feeling selfish and thinking of the long game. A Rubio presidency means its over for Bush. A Trump GOP candidacy (helped by the failure of 'middle' ground candidates to coalesce around a single figure (helped by Bush pushing on), means good chance of a one term Clinton presidency and another go for Bush in 4 years.
    If Trump loses to Clinton then Cruz will likely be the GOP nominee in 2020. The Bush family would have to wait for Jeb's son George P in 2024
    Cruz in 2020? GOP fail to learn again?
    Lets see.
    Rubio will be an ex-senator for 4 years by then and 4 years older, so it wont be him since his entire pitch is his youth.

    Actually from the present crop of candidates, only Cruz will be in a state to run again, maybe Carson.
    Kasich will be too old, and out of office, Christie and Bush are busted flushes already, Paul will be lucky to be re-elected.

    So If Trump doesn't win the GE, then the GOP will have to find a whole new set of people or just settle with Cruz.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    edited February 2016
    Alistair said:

    I'd quite like Bush to beat Rubio as I am green on Bush (to a tiny amount) and red on Rubio.

    I wouldn't lol.

    Big picture is I think they're both fucked though.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Favorite books -

    For thrillers / crime - anything by Steve Berry or Karin Slaughter

    Classics - To Kill a Mocking Bird / Go set a watchman by Harper Lee (who died today)

    Gone With The Wind - first read at age 16 and loved it ever since

    Anything by John le Carre or Philip Pullman

    Go Down Together by Jeff Guinn - well researched, incredibly detailed history of Bonnie and Clyde. A less romantic history of their brief desperate and lonely lives you won't find.

    Sherlock Holmes by Conan Doyle

    My favorite of all, which I come back to reread every couple of years -Seven Pillars of Wisdom (the 1926 Oxford edition) by T E Lawrence.

    There are plenty of others - I have piles of books all over my house.
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'Well it was arranged 6 months ago'

    I suspect it's worse than that - I think the French will be trying to use this negotiation as an opportunity to make the situation worse for the City than it otherwise would have been.

    Cameron may prevent this, or may not. But you can be sure the best we will get is status quo.
  • Options

    On the subject of favourite books... Basically I recommend everything ever written by John Wyndham. I regard him as one of Britain's greatest ever novelists - and certainly one of the best story tellers. It's a pity that sci-fi is rather looked down on - if he'd chosen any other genre instead then he'd surely be universally (no pun intended) and instantly thought of along with all the usual greats of British literature.

    I read a book about persecuted psychics in post apocalyptic world trying to get to New Zealand by him. Was very good.
    I read that a very long time ago, can't remember what it was called but agree it was very good.
  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited February 2016

    Didn't Lansley say there would be a dust up with the French just before a deal? Wonder if they will sell existing opt out for UK from single rule book as a victory, when its actually status quo.

    Exactly. Cameron is going to sell as a "win" that he blocked the straw-man of Britain being dragged into the Eurozone rules or something, even though we already weren't in it.

    Although it's not just in Cameron's interests to stage a bust-up: this way, Hollande and the other European leaders will also get a chance to tell their own voters back home that atleast they made Cameron sweat and didn't just roll over at the first time of asking, and point out that nothing of substance has been changed. Meanwhile, the journalists can get their kicks by breathlessly reporting all the DRAMZ, while the Eurocrats get to scurry round town feeling busy and important for a few days. Essentially it's in everyone's interests to play into this charade.
  • Options
    pbr2013pbr2013 Posts: 649

    I do find it rather amusing that the BBC's Europe Correspondent is one Chris Morris.... Going be looking forward to those reports. Especially if he manages to get Cameron to declare war on the French, live on air.....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3BO6GP9NMY

    Where is Peter O'Hanrahanra hanrahan when you need him.? Another sad loss in 9/11.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307
    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    taffys said:

    John Le Carre is pretty great. Tinker Tailor and all that.

    I liked him at the time but his world weariness and down beat attitude to Britain got too much eventually. I preferred Len Deighton, especially his Game Set and Match series.

    Otherwise I admire Cyclefree's erudition but I prefer

    Excession by Iain Banks
    Thief of time by Pratchett (and pretty much anything else by him)
    Funny how personal taste goes, I consider those 2 of the weaker books by both authors.
    That is weird. Player of Games rather than Excession I was tempted to go for but I think Excession is very funny as well as clever. Choosing the best Pratchett is a mugs game and I was tempted by any book featuring Granny Weatheraxe but the monks of time are a great idea.

    What are your favourites by those authors?
    Oops, I realise that I got Excession confused with Look to Windward. Excession is excellent.
    Look to Windward was beautifully written but didn't seem to go anywhere. Use of weapons was another cracker. When I read the last page I was so taken aback I went back to the start.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    DavidL said:

    England clearly booked an early meal during the interval. Get this over with soonest.

    Someone should have set up a spread bet on the last over of the match. I'd say 16th.
  • Options
    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    Gove to campaign for LEAVE. Yay!!!!!
  • Options
    SeanT said:

    Danny565 said:

    SeanT said:

    Hollande on French radio saying the big sticking point is UK protection for the City.

    He is refusing to yield, and won't give any nation "special treatment" etc etc

    Makes sense. I can't believe Cameron or the Slavs would go to the wire over child benefits. But finreg and the French, yes.

    But if the negotiations are about nothing then why are the French bothered?
    They're not bothered: they've just agreed to stage a fight to make it look like the negotiations are about something substantial.

    Cf: Andrew Lansley last year predicting a choreographed row in February 2016 https://www.politicshome.com/foreign-and-defence/articles/story/pm-plans-‘choreographed’-row-french-eu-campaign-report
    I know, and maybe I'm a dupe, but this row seems halfway real to me. The French really do care about fucking over the City - or preventing us dictating to the eurozone - (take your pick).

    Hmm.
    Exactly. The idea that the French would be the biggest stumbling block to reform ought to be self-blindingly obvious to anyone.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    edited February 2016
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    England clearly booked an early meal during the interval. Get this over with soonest.

    Someone should have set up a spread bet on the last over of the match. I'd say 16th.
    "Total 2nd innings deliveries" was a suggestion of mine when I worked in the spread game

    "Catchers shirt numbers" was another

    England were 7/1 at the break, 10/3 now
  • Options
    Sean_F said:



    On the subject of favourite books... Basically I recommend everything ever written by John Wyndham. I regard him as one of Britain's greatest ever novelists - and certainly one of the best story tellers. It's a pity that sci-fi is rather looked down on - if he'd chosen any other genre instead then he'd surely be universally (no pun intended) and instantly thought of along with all the usual greats of British literature.

    I've only read the Day of the Triffids, but that is an extremely good novel.
    I studied Day of the Triffids at GCSE - which was when my love for his writing began. Then I studied a further two of his novels (The Kraken Wakes and The Chrysalids) for my A-Level English Literature. Sadly in some other cases I found that studying novels at A-Level, rather than reading them for pleasure, put me off going anywhere near certain writers ever again (Doris Lessing, Jane Austen, James Joyce...) but in the case of Wyndham I was enthused and went on to read all of his other books several times over.

    Oddly though my favourite of his is Web. It was his final novel and went unpublished until 10 years after his death - it's a bit rough around the edges as he probably hadn't reached the final draft but I love it all the same.

  • Options
    Speedy said:

    Lets see.
    Rubio will be an ex-senator for 4 years by then and 4 years older, so it wont be him since his entire pitch is his youth.

    Actually from the present crop of candidates, only Cruz will be in a state to run again, maybe Carson.
    Kasich will be too old, and out of office, Christie and Bush are busted flushes already, Paul will be lucky to be re-elected.

    So If Trump doesn't win the GE, then the GOP will have to find a whole new set of people or just settle with Cruz.

    There are a lot of Senators and Governors who have passed on running this time. It won't be difficult to find new people in four years time.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    England clearly booked an early meal during the interval. Get this over with soonest.

    Someone should have set up a spread bet on the last over of the match. I'd say 16th.
    I put £5 on England at 12/1 about 15 minutes ago. Fingers crossed.
  • Options



    I read a book about persecuted psychics in post apocalyptic world trying to get to New Zealand by him. Was very good.

    Yes, that's The Chrysalids. It's the only one of his major post WW2 novels that's not set in a recognisable, then, present day.

  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    taffys said:

    John Le Carre is pretty great. Tinker Tailor and all that.

    I liked him at the time but his world weariness and down beat attitude to Britain got too much eventually. I preferred Len Deighton, especially his Game Set and Match series.

    Otherwise I admire Cyclefree's erudition but I prefer

    Excession by Iain Banks
    Thief of time by Pratchett (and pretty much anything else by him)
    Funny how personal taste goes, I consider those 2 of the weaker books by both authors.
    That is weird. Player of Games rather than Excession I was tempted to go for but I think Excession is very funny as well as clever. Choosing the best Pratchett is a mugs game and I was tempted by any book featuring Granny Weatheraxe but the monks of time are a great idea.

    What are your favourites by those authors?
    Oops, I realise that I got Excession confused with Look to Windward. Excession is excellent.
    Look to Windward was beautifully written but didn't seem to go anywhere. Use of weapons was another cracker. When I read the last page I was so taken aback I went back to the start.
    That's exactly my issue with LtW, it seems very self indulgent, like he got a lot more enjoyment out of writing it than I did from reading it.

    Use of Weapons just crams in so many things I like it a pretty lean book, it is all meat and no fat.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    edited February 2016
    isam said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    England clearly booked an early meal during the interval. Get this over with soonest.

    Someone should have set up a spread bet on the last over of the match. I'd say 16th.
    "Total 2nd innings deliveries" was a suggestion of mine when I worked in the spread game

    England were 7/1 at the break, 10/3 now
    That would be a great market in a match where the first innings was under par or finished early.

    I assume the objection would be how it would deal with our old friends Duckworth and Lewis, or would those matches just settle massively on the low side and potentially cost you a fortune?

    Edit: actually, thinking some more, you'd need to be able to move the 'price' in-play for new bets, as a developing game could lead to all the bets going one way.
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    Gove is unable to back Dave's rubbish "deal":

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/700742054687678469
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307
    pbr2013 said:

    I do find it rather amusing that the BBC's Europe Correspondent is one Chris Morris.... Going be looking forward to those reports. Especially if he manages to get Cameron to declare war on the French, live on air.....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3BO6GP9NMY

    Where is Peter O'Hanrahanra hanrahan when you need him.? Another sad loss in 9/11.
    Chris Morris is a genius. Not the BBC one of course.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    MP_SE said:

    Gove is unable to back Dave's rubbish "deal":

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/700742054687678469

    Yes! Best news of the day so far :D
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    MP_SE said:

    Gove is unable to back Dave's rubbish "deal":

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/700742054687678469

    That would be great. Probably the most eloquent Senior Tory onside
  • Options
    isam said:

    MP_SE said:

    Gove is unable to back Dave's rubbish "deal":

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/700742054687678469

    That would be great. Probably the most eloquent Senior Tory onside
    Bloody hell.
  • Options
    pbr2013pbr2013 Posts: 649
    RodCrosby said:

    pbr2013 said:


    Why do you care about this so much to become so expert? Also, if you are correct in thinking that Obama is not a NBC, then do you take the view that anything legally "done" by him during his Presidency is void under US law?

    I don't really care, but was bored enough to become an expert in the subject. It's not so difficult, and keeps the brain cells exercised.

    I also know the difference between persuasive or conclusive facts and logic, and self-serving bullshit or invention - a distinction that I feel ought to be preserved, whatever the issue.

    I've not yet become an expert on what might be done in the event of Obama being declared ineligible, after 8 years in office, as I concede it is a remote possibility, whereas stopping Cruz is a far more realistic proposition...
    Thank you for responding to my perhaps presumptuous question.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,205
    felix said:

    MTimT said:

    I just love all those armchair negotiators on PB Telling the world what a woosh Cameron is..where he has failed..what a prat he is..and how they would have all done it much better..Most of them probably dither about what colour socks to wear today..absolutely pathetic..Cameron..for all his faults and there are a few ... is in a room with 27 hard nosed political leaders..all making a case out for their own countries..some cake walk..at least he had the guts to take it on..back your keyboards word warriors and continue your brave battle...maybe your socks should match your tie..

    Some of us have been hard-nosed negotiators in those same rooms and with tough opponents. The fact is you have no idea what experience people on here making criticisms have but simply chose to play the person rather than engage in substance.
    Oh dear another one telling us how great he is - Which political party did you lead? When were you PM? Explain what you got out of the EU in your negotiations.
    I'd really stop digging if I were you. Of all the people to take on here in relation to hard nosed negotiating, you really don't want to pick MTimT.

  • Options
    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited February 2016
    isam said:

    MP_SE said:

    Gove is unable to back Dave's rubbish "deal":

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/700742054687678469

    That would be great. Probably the most eloquent Senior Tory onside
    He's intelligent and gives them a bit more "credibility" with the commentariat atleast, but he's not really box-office to Joe Public.

    Not to mention I still don't see anyone who can appeal to tribal Labour voters (as I keep saying, there is no realistic route to a Leave victory that doesn't go through the northern ex-industrial and mining towns).
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    isam said:

    MP_SE said:

    Gove is unable to back Dave's rubbish "deal":

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/700742054687678469

    That would be great. Probably the most eloquent Senior Tory onside
    Bloody hell.
    It's a big gain for leave.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    AndyJS said:

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    England clearly booked an early meal during the interval. Get this over with soonest.

    Someone should have set up a spread bet on the last over of the match. I'd say 16th.
    I put £5 on England at 12/1 about 15 minutes ago. Fingers crossed.
    Well you can lay them at 5.2 now to take the profit, or hope we get another wicket or two in short order! I'd probably cash out, 'cos I just don't trust England to close out the match from here.
  • Options
    isam said:

    MP_SE said:

    Gove is unable to back Dave's rubbish "deal":

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/700742054687678469

    That would be great. Probably the most eloquent Senior Tory onside
    Yes, he'd be a very good asset for Leave, at least amongst a section of Conservatives.
  • Options
    isam said:

    MP_SE said:

    Gove is unable to back Dave's rubbish "deal":

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/700742054687678469

    That would be great. Probably the most eloquent Senior Tory onside
    Infinitely more credible than Boris.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307
    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    taffys said:

    John Le Carre is pretty great. Tinker Tailor and all that.

    I liked him at the time but his world weariness and down beat attitude to Britain got too much eventually. I preferred Len Deighton, especially his Game Set and Match series.

    Otherwise I admire Cyclefree's erudition but I prefer

    Excession by Iain Banks
    Thief of time by Pratchett (and pretty much anything else by him)
    Funny how personal taste goes, I consider those 2 of the weaker books by both authors.
    That is weird. Player of Games rather than Excession I was tempted to go for but I think Excession is very funny as well as clever. Choosing the best Pratchett is a mugs game and I was tempted by any book featuring Granny Weatheraxe but the monks of time are a great idea.

    What are your favourites by those authors?
    Oops, I realise that I got Excession confused with Look to Windward. Excession is excellent.
    Look to Windward was beautifully written but didn't seem to go anywhere. Use of weapons was another cracker. When I read the last page I was so taken aback I went back to the start.
    That's exactly my issue with LtW, it seems very self indulgent, like he got a lot more enjoyment out of writing it than I did from reading it.

    Use of Weapons just crams in so many things I like it a pretty lean book, it is all meat and no fat.
    Good point. I think inside each of the GoT novels there is a good book trying to get out. Maybe more than one.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    DavidL said:

    pbr2013 said:

    I do find it rather amusing that the BBC's Europe Correspondent is one Chris Morris.... Going be looking forward to those reports. Especially if he manages to get Cameron to declare war on the French, live on air.....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3BO6GP9NMY

    Where is Peter O'Hanrahanra hanrahan when you need him.? Another sad loss in 9/11.
    Chris Morris is a genius. Not the BBC one of course.
    One of the greatest TV programmes ever made, genius!

    https://youtu.be/RcU7FaEEzNU
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    hunchman said:

    Gove to campaign for LEAVE. Yay!!!!!

    At least there will be some intellectual heft to the Leave campaign now.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited February 2016
    Britain Elects
    Liberal Democrat council by-election performances so far this year:
    Average: +4.20%
    (standing starts excl.) https://t.co/eqakx7q5U2

    UKIP council by-election performances so far this year:
    Average: -8.06%
    (standing starts excl.) https://t.co/NrzZnjbzmT

    Labour council by-election performances so far this year:
    Average: -0.97%
    (standing starts excl.) https://t.co/byzlBlPYAL

    Conservative council by-election performances so far this year:
    Average: -1.26%
    (standing starts excl.) https://t.co/ZBlpyC58zD
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125
    Cyclefree said:

    felix said:

    MTimT said:

    I just love all those armchair negotiators on PB Telling the world what a woosh Cameron is..where he has failed..what a prat he is..and how they would have all done it much better..Most of them probably dither about what colour socks to wear today..absolutely pathetic..Cameron..for all his faults and there are a few ... is in a room with 27 hard nosed political leaders..all making a case out for their own countries..some cake walk..at least he had the guts to take it on..back your keyboards word warriors and continue your brave battle...maybe your socks should match your tie..

    Some of us have been hard-nosed negotiators in those same rooms and with tough opponents. The fact is you have no idea what experience people on here making criticisms have but simply chose to play the person rather than engage in substance.
    Oh dear another one telling us how great he is - Which political party did you lead? When were you PM? Explain what you got out of the EU in your negotiations.
    I'd really stop digging if I were you. Of all the people to take on here in relation to hard nosed negotiating, you really don't want to pick MTimT.

    I was smiling inwardly at that too!
  • Options
    SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    Pulpstar said:

    isam said:

    MP_SE said:

    Gove is unable to back Dave's rubbish "deal":

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/700742054687678469

    That would be great. Probably the most eloquent Senior Tory onside
    Bloody hell.
    It's a big gain for leave.
    It is.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,008
    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    We have 3 S.C tracking polls today, they show widely different results for Cruz, Rubio, Bush and Kasich, so I will show changes since 2 days ago:

    ARG
    Trump 34 +1
    Cruz 13 -1
    Rubio 22 +8
    Bush 9 +1
    Kasich 14 0
    Carson 4 +1

    Emerson
    Trump 36 +3
    Cruz 18 -7
    Rubio 19 0
    Bush 9 +1
    Kasich 14 +1
    Carson 4 +1

    SC House GOP
    Trump 34 0
    Cruz 18 +2
    Rubio 16 +1
    Bush 14 -1
    Kasich 9 +1
    Carson 5 -2

    There will probably be some last updates from them tonight.

    Also there is a Colorado poll for the DEM caucus (Super Tuesday state)

    Sanders 49
    Hillary 43

    http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/colorado_democratic_caucus_survey_topline_final.pdf

    So bio presidency means its over for Bush. A Trump GOP candidacy (helped by the failure of 'middle' ground candidates to coalesce around a single figure (helped by Bush pushing on), means good chance of a one term Clinton presidency and another go for Bush in 4 years.

    If Trump loses to Clinton then Cruz will likely be the GOP nominee in 2020. The Bush family would have to wait for Jeb's son George P in 2024
    No one is going to vote for a Bush to be president again.
    Even Hillary has trouble beating a 74 year old Socialist, and Bill was far more popular than Bush (Clinton had 60-65% approval ratings, Bush had 25%).
    Speedy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    We have 3 S.C tracking polls today, they show widely different results for Cruz, Rubio, Bush and Kasich, so I will

    Looking grim for Be. A Rubio presidency means its ova single figure (helped by Bush pushing on), means good chance of a one term Clinton presidency and another go for Bush in 4 years.
    If Trump loses to Clinton then Cruz will likely be the GOP nominee in 2020. The Bush family would have to wait for Jeb's son George P in 2024
    No one is going to vote for a Bush to be president again.
    Even Hillary has trouble beating a 74 year old Socialist, and Bill was far more popular than Bush (Clinton had 60-65% approval ratings, Bush had 25%).
    George P Bush is already Texas Land Cssioner will likely be governor or Senator on a few years and if there is another Clinton why not another Bush? Bush could be followed by Bobby Kennedy's grandson now in Congress
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,008

    HYUFD said:

    Speedy said:

    We have 3 S.C tracking polls today, they show widely different results for Cruz, Rubio, Bush and Kasich, so I will show changes since 2 days ago:

    ARG
    Trump 34 +1
    Cruz 13 -1
    Rubio 22 +8
    Bush 9 +1
    Kasich 14 0
    Carson 4 +1

    Emerson
    Trump 36 +3
    Cruz 18 -7
    Rubio 19 0
    Bush 9 +1
    Kasich 14 +1
    Carson 4 +1

    SC House GOP
    Trump 34 0
    Cruz 18 +2
    Rubio 16 +1
    Bush 14 -1
    Kasich 9 +1
    Carson 5 -2

    There will probably be some last updates from them tonight.

    Also there is a Colorado poll for the DEM caucus (Super Tuesday state)

    Sanders 49
    Hillary 43

    http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/colorado_democratic_caucus_survey_topline_final.pdf

    So Sanders is ahead in 3 out of the 10 Super Tuesday states that have been polled, the only state not to have been polled in Minnesota which should favour Sanders.
    If Sanders wins Nevada he will probably win 5 out of the 11 Super Tuesday states (Oklahoma is too close to call at present polling).

    Looking grim for Bush. He may continue though IMHO right through the primary season, if he's feeling selfish and thinking of the long game. A Rubio presidency means its over for Bush. A Trump GOP candidacy (helped by the failure of 'middle' ground candidates to coalesce around a single figure (helped by Bush pushing on), means good chance of a one term Clinton presidency and another go for Bush in 4 years.
    If Trump loses to Clinton then Cruz will likely be the GOP nominee in 2020. The Bush family would have to wait for Jeb's son George P in 2024
    Cruz in 2020? GOP fail to learn again?
    He would be next in line yes
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    isamisam Posts: 40,930
    Why the hell didn't Moeen try to catch that???

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307
    Perhaps Gove's odds for next leader need to be looked at. He will take a lot of the rubbish from remain apart but he will do it with that elegant politeness of his which will not burn bridges. Puts him in a good place.
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    pbr2013pbr2013 Posts: 649
    Sean_F said:

    On the subject of favourite books... Basically I recommend everything ever written by John Wyndham. I regard him as one of Britain's greatest ever novelists - and certainly one of the best story tellers. It's a pity that sci-fi is rather looked down on - if he'd chosen any other genre instead then he'd surely be universally (no pun intended) and instantly thought of along with all the usual greats of British literature.

    On the subject of favourite books... Basically I recommend everything ever written by John Wyndham. I regard him as one of Britain's greatest ever novelists - and certainly one of the best story tellers. It's a pity that sci-fi is rather looked down on - if he'd chosen any other genre instead then he'd surely be universally (no pun intended) and instantly thought of along with all the usual greats of British literature.

    I've only read the Day of the Triffids, but that is an extremely good novel.
    Midwich Cuckoos, Chrysalids and the Kraken wakes are all great.
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    pbr2013pbr2013 Posts: 649
    My 200th post!
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,001
    pbr2013 said:

    Sean_F said:

    On the subject of favourite books... Basically I recommend everything ever written by John Wyndham. I regard him as one of Britain's greatest ever novelists - and certainly one of the best story tellers. It's a pity that sci-fi is rather looked down on - if he'd chosen any other genre instead then he'd surely be universally (no pun intended) and instantly thought of along with all the usual greats of British literature.

    On the subject of favourite books... Basically I recommend everything ever written by John Wyndham. I regard him as one of Britain's greatest ever novelists - and certainly one of the best story tellers. It's a pity that sci-fi is rather looked down on - if he'd chosen any other genre instead then he'd surely be universally (no pun intended) and instantly thought of along with all the usual greats of British literature.

    I've only read the Day of the Triffids, but that is an extremely good novel.
    Midwich Cuckoos, Chrysalids and the Kraken wakes are all great.
    The Kraken Wakes was always my favourite, but all the Wyndham books are excellent.

    "This is the way the world ends, not with a bang but with a whimper."
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    pbr2013pbr2013 Posts: 649
    Isn't Gove going for country over friend, if true, the biggest Brexit news of the day?
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    Who had the market up for who was going to lead the Leave campaign, was it Shadsy? Can't bloody find it!
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    isam said:

    MP_SE said:

    Gove is unable to back Dave's rubbish "deal":

    https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/700742054687678469

    That would be great. Probably the most eloquent Senior Tory onside
    Infinitely more credible than Boris.
    That's going to infuriate Boris.
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    asjohnstoneasjohnstone Posts: 1,276
    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    Alistair said:

    DavidL said:

    taffys said:

    John Le Carre is pretty great. Tinker Tailor and all that.

    I liked him at the time but his world weariness and down beat attitude to Britain got too much eventually. I preferred Len Deighton, especially his Game Set and Match series.

    Otherwise I admire Cyclefree's erudition but I prefer

    Excession by Iain Banks
    Thief of time by Pratchett (and pretty much anything else by him)
    Funny how personal taste goes, I consider those 2 of the weaker books by both authors.
    That is weird. Player of Games rather than Excession I was tempted to go for but I think Excession is very funny as well as clever. Choosing the best Pratchett is a mugs game and I was tempted by any book featuring Granny Weatheraxe but the monks of time are a great idea.

    What are your favourites by those authors?
    Oops, I realise that I got Excession confused with Look to Windward. Excession is excellent.
    Look to Windward was beautifully written but didn't seem to go anywhere. Use of weapons was another cracker. When I read the last page I was so taken aback I went back to the start.
    That's exactly my issue with LtW, it seems very self indulgent, like he got a lot more enjoyment out of writing it than I did from reading it.

    Use of Weapons just crams in so many things I like it a pretty lean book, it is all meat and no fat.
    Surely "Surface Detail" is the masterwork of the culture novels?
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    DavidL said:

    Perhaps Gove's odds for next leader need to be looked at. He will take a lot of the rubbish from remain apart but he will do it with that elegant politeness of his which will not burn bridges. Puts him in a good place.

    He could certainly swing a fair few Tory voters in the referendum too.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
This discussion has been closed.