I just love all those armchair negotiators on PB Telling the world what a woosh Cameron is..where he has failed..what a prat he is..and how they would have all done it much better..Most of them probably dither about what colour socks to wear today..absolutely pathetic..Cameron..for all his faults and there are a few ... is in a room with 27 hard nosed political leaders..all making a case out for their own countries..some cake walk..at least he had the guts to take it on..back your keyboards word warriors and continue your brave battle...maybe your socks should match your tie..
Some of us have been hard-nosed negotiators in those same rooms and with tough opponents. The fact is you have no idea what experience people on here making criticisms have but simply chose to play the person rather than engage in substance.
Oh dear another one telling us how great he is - Which political party did you lead? When were you PM? Explain what you got out of the EU in your negotiations.
David Cameron strikes me as a man who has never found it neccessary to drive a hard bargain to buy a house, or a car... or anything - and it's showing now.
Now I know he's not to everyone's tastes, but can't we send Donald J Trump into bat as a substitute for us in the Euro negotiations ?
Maybe Cameron would have found the actual negotiations easier if he hadn't declared he wants to stay in the EU beforehand.
Announcing before the negotiations have even started that you are going to accept a deal is not a strategy that is likely to bring the best result.
You have to announce that you'll accept the right deal. Nobody negotiates a deal to buy a house without an underlying assumption that you want to accept a deal at the end of negotiations.
Really? I guess my negotiation training and years of experience were all for naught then, because I've never negotiated on that basis on either end of any deal.
Mr. Taffys, the media's uncompromising stance might be in part due to Labour's weakness. The press can go for Cameron's jugular, because, come election time, not only will he not be there, but Labour may well be led by an idiot who is also a step away from being a communist.
I think the 'being lied to' thing is also a factor.
As Sean T said earlier, we're being taken for idiots. Its insulting. Dave would have had a great deal of sympathy if he'd said - ' look, I doubt we;ll get much, but I'll do my best'
David Cameron strikes me as a man who has never found it neccessary to drive a hard bargain to buy a house, or a car... or anything - and it's showing now.
Now I know he's not to everyone's tastes, but can't we send Donald J Trump into bat as a substitute for us in the Euro negotiations ?
Maybe Cameron would have found the actual negotiations easier if he hadn't declared he wants to stay in the EU beforehand.
Announcing before the negotiations have even started that you are going to accept a deal is not a strategy that is likely to bring the best result.
You have to announce that you'll accept the right deal. Nobody negotiates a deal to buy a house without an underlying assumption that you want to accept a deal at the end of negotiations.
Really? I guess my negotiation training and years of experience were all for naught then, because I've never negotiated on that basis on either end of any deal.
That's fine, I've had years of negotiating too and I've never gone into a negotiation with the impression that I wouldn't accept any deal no matter what. Have you?
I just love all those armchair negotiators on PB Telling the world what a woosh Cameron is..where he has failed..what a prat he is..and how they would have all done it much better..Most of them probably dither about what colour socks to wear today..absolutely pathetic..Cameron..for all his faults and there are a few ... is in a room with 27 hard nosed political leaders..all making a case out for their own countries..some cake walk..at least he had the guts to take it on..back your keyboards word warriors and continue your brave battle...maybe your socks should match your tie..
Ah more Doddy Dribble.
Cameron lost this before he even went near Brussels. He lost it because he aimed too low and because he made it clear that he would not and could not use the ultimate sanction.
The fact that even after all this you can still try to defend him shows that what is dribbling out of the corner of your mouth is probably the remains of your very limited brains.
Or that things are viewed differently to you. I think he aimed to get the most that can be extracted when you need 27 other nations to unanimously agree.
Well maybe. But then the agreement Dave gets (if he gets it) will sometimes depend on just that. The agreement of 27 nations.
The idea that Dave has managed to persuade 27 heads of state to spend days locked up 'for some theatrics' is patently absurd.
He may come away with nothing worth mentioning. But the idea that it was all pre-arranged is so ridiculous as to beggar belief. It presupposes that somehow appearing a total f*cking loser would some how be a vote winner.
John Le Carre is pretty great. Tinker Tailor and all that.
I liked him at the time but his world weariness and down beat attitude to Britain got too much eventually. I preferred Len Deighton, especially his Game Set and Match series.
Otherwise I admire Cyclefree's erudition but I prefer
God emperor of Dune by Frank Herbert Excession by Iain Banks Thief of time by Pratchett (and pretty much anything else by him) The Witching hour by Anne Rice Intellectual I ain't.
Mr Tyndall..your attempts to cover your embarrassment are also pathetic..the attack mode never works..I am neither hurt or defensive, but very amused..keep trying..you can only improve.
John Le Carre is pretty great. Tinker Tailor and all that.
I liked him at the time but his world weariness and down beat attitude to Britain got too much eventually. I preferred Len Deighton, especially his Game Set and Match series.
Otherwise I admire Cyclefree's erudition but I prefer
Excession by Iain Banks Thief of time by Pratchett (and pretty much anything else by him)
Funny how personal taste goes, I consider those 2 of the weaker books by both authors.
Mr. Felix, the idea people should only be able to comment or criticise the PM if they have been PM (or leader of another party) is sillier than a fluorescent gerbil.
Almost as silly as people flaunting their qualifications and employment history as evidence that they must be right and are better than the PM.
John Le Carre is pretty great. Tinker Tailor and all that.
I liked him at the time but his world weariness and down beat attitude to Britain got too much eventually. I preferred Len Deighton, especially his Game Set and Match series.
Otherwise I admire Cyclefree's erudition but I prefer
God emperor of Dune by Frank Herbert Excession by Iain Banks Thief of time by Pratchett (and pretty much anything else by him) The Witching hour by Anne Rice Intellectual I ain't.
I'm probably a fellow traveller:
Cryptonomicon (Stephenson) Flashman in the Great Game (GMF ofc) Player of Games (Banks) Dune (Herbert) A Song for Arbonne (Kay) The Little Drummer Girl (Le Carre) The Hammer & The Cross trilogy (Harrison) - particularly recommended to M. Dancer.
I just love all those armchair negotiators on PB Telling the world what a woosh Cameron is..where he has failed..what a prat he is..and how they would have all done it much better..Most of them probably dither about what colour socks to wear today..absolutely pathetic..Cameron..for all his faults and there are a few ... is in a room with 27 hard nosed political leaders..all making a case out for their own countries..some cake walk..at least he had the guts to take it on..back your keyboards word warriors and continue your brave battle...maybe your socks should match your tie..
Some of us have been hard-nosed negotiators in those same rooms and with tough opponents. The fact is you have no idea what experience people on here making criticisms have but simply chose to play the person rather than engage in substance.
Oh dear another one telling us how great he is - Which political party did you lead? When were you PM? Explain what you got out of the EU in your negotiations.
I wonder what other PBers' favorite books are. I would have a very hard time choosing, but Candide must be right up there.
Four in my top 10 novels are:-
- Vanity Fair - Anna Karenina - Jane Eyre - Animal Farm
Seriously, Mrs Free? Such highbrow stuff? Makes me look such a pleb but the books that have given me the greatest pleasure and which I have read many times over the years are
- Red Storm Rising (Tom Clancy) - Catch 22 (Joseph Heller) - Flashman in the Great Game (George macDonald Fraser) - Don Camillio, 1955 Omnibus Edition (Giovanni Guareschi) - Just about anything by P.G. Wodehouse
Quite like Don Camillo. Have never got Wodehouse. I do like Waugh, though. Scoop is fantastic.
Don Camillo is fantastic - a series of tales of love and hope. My father introduced him to me when I was about 10 and it is my Dad's copy of the book that sits on my shelf that I pick up whenever I feel pissed off at the world.
Wodehouse is very, very English. I introduced my boy to it when he was about 12 and it didn't click at all. I tried again when he was 15 or so, same result. Yet a few months ago I was driving him back to Leeds and I put on a talking book of "Summer Lightning" and he loved it - he is now in the process of enjoying all the Wodehouse books for the first time. I envy him.
John Le Carre is pretty great. Tinker Tailor and all that.
I liked him at the time but his world weariness and down beat attitude to Britain got too much eventually. I preferred Len Deighton, especially his Game Set and Match series.
Otherwise I admire Cyclefree's erudition but I prefer
God emperor of Dune by Frank Herbert Excession by Iain Banks Thief of time by Pratchett (and pretty much anything else by him) The Witching hour by Anne Rice Intellectual I ain't.
I'm probably a fellow traveller:
Cryptonomicon (Stephenson) Flashman in the Great Game (GMF ofc) Player of Games (Banks) Dune (Herbert) A Song for Arbonne (Kay) The Little Drummer Girl (Le Carre) The Hammer & The Cross trilogy (Harrison) - particularly recommended to M. Dancer.
Hmmm... if you're going to do Stephenson, it has to be Snow Crash
Mr. Mark, making fluorescent gerbils is a vital step in the ongoing drive to perfect genetic engineering. I absolutely did not release any, with hilarious results, during a seance, and anyone who says otherwise shall be hearing from my lawyers.
The Eurofanatics seem to be ignoring all of the evidence which suggests Dave had no intention of ever trying to obtain real reform of the UK's relationship with the EU.
One of the reasons Carswell defected to UKIP was because he believed that Dave was only going to try and obtain minor cosmetic changes. Looks like he was right... All the undecideds and remainers said he was wrong and accused him of lying...
He did not believe Mr Cameron’s policy was “sincere,” saying the Tory leadership wanted to secure "just enough" to pretend change was happening.
John Le Carre is pretty great. Tinker Tailor and all that.
I liked him at the time but his world weariness and down beat attitude to Britain got too much eventually. I preferred Len Deighton, especially his Game Set and Match series.
Otherwise I admire Cyclefree's erudition but I prefer
God emperor of Dune by Frank Herbert Excession by Iain Banks Thief of time by Pratchett (and pretty much anything else by him) The Witching hour by Anne Rice Intellectual I ain't.
I'm probably a fellow traveller:
Cryptonomicon (Stephenson) Flashman in the Great Game (GMF ofc) Player of Games (Banks) Dune (Herbert) A Song for Arbonne (Kay) The Little Drummer Girl (Le Carre) The Hammer & The Cross trilogy (Harrison) - particularly recommended to M. Dancer.
Hmmm... if you're going to do Stephenson, it has to be Snow Crash
Agreed. It is brilliant. But the list has so many similarities I am going to keep an eye out for A song for Arbonne.
Mr. Mark, making fluorescent gerbils is a vital step in the ongoing drive to perfect genetic engineering. I absolutely did not release any, with hilarious results, during a seance, and anyone who says otherwise shall be hearing from my lawyers.
Stupid case and surely a case well above a local judge's paygrade.
It has to start somewhere, even with a local law student who marks his own papers...
Cruz is naturally an alien, in need of naturalization, which he may indeed have obtained.
Therefore, not a natural born citizen.
Cruz was never naturalised, he was born with citizenship from his parent. Therefore, a natural born citizen.
Tosh. He was naturalized at birth, under a statute enacted under Congress's power to establish a Uniform Rule of Naturalization, without which he would be still be an alien. Like Winston Churchill, who remained an alien until Congress passed a special bill making him an honorary citizen in 1963, there being no equivalent statute at the time of Churchill's birth. Churchill was never an NBC, despite, like Cruz, having an American mother...
All logic, history, and more importantly, every SCOTUS opinion on the matter confirms the position.
U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 665 (1898) (one born out of the United States to U.S. citizen parents, not being a citizen at common law can only be a naturalized citizen through a naturalization Act of Congress and that if it were not for a naturalization Act of Congress, he or she would be an alien and not a citizen)
Montana v. Kennedy, 366 U.S. 308 (1961) (if a child is not born in the country, the child needs a naturalization Act to make that child for all intents and purposes a citizen and without such naturalization the child would be an alien)
Rogers v. Bellei, 401 U.S. 815 (1971) (a person born out of the United States to U.S. citizen parents can be a citizen of the United States only if Congress allows it through one of its naturalization Acts and such person therefore becomes a citizen of the United States “at birth” through naturalization without which the person would be an alien)
Miller v. Albright, 523 U.S. 420 (1998) (“There are ‘two sources of citizenship, and two only: birth and naturalization.’ United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649, 702 (1898). Within the former category, the Fourteenth Amendment of the Constitution guarantees that every person ‘born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, becomes at once a citizen of the United States, and needs no naturalization.’ 169 U.S., at 702. Persons not born in the United States acquire citizenship by birth only as provided by Acts of Congress. Id., at 703.”).
Why do you care about this so much to become so expert? Also, if you are correct in thinking that Obama is not a NBC, then do you take the view that anything legally "done" by him during his Presidency is void under US law?
All the Eurofanatics seem to be ignoring all of the evidence which suggests Dave had no intention of ever trying to obtain real reform of the UK's relationship with the EU.
One of the reasons Carswell defected to UKIP was because he believed that Dave was only going to try and obtain minor cosmetic changes. Looks like he was right... All the undecideds and remainers said he was wrong and accused him of lying...
He did not believe Mr Cameron’s policy was “sincere,” saying the Tory leadership wanted to secure "just enough" to pretend change was happening.
Whether the leadership was sincere or not was moot, there is a reason the likes of Hannan and Redwood and even Davis didn't defect. The only chance of leave was for Cameron to win the General Election and then Leave to win the argument. That job is half done, now Leave need to win the argument.
Had Farage succeeded in putting Miliband into Downing Street then there'd be no chance of Leave winning.
But Boris is the big prize, and the Speccie says he's still an unknown. He must worry Cameron. Boris has the charisma and popularity to win it for LEAVE, even if he is also a risk.
The fact that Boris has kept his options open seems clear he is an outer.
My top ten novels are, in no particular order, Nero's Heirs, by Allan Massie, Pride and Prejudice, by Jane Austen, Flashman at the Charge, by George Macdonald Fraser, A Storm of Swords, by George Martin, the Lord of the Rings, by Tolkien, The Three Musketeers, by Alexandre Dumas, Confessions of a Justified Sinner, by James Hogg, The Great Divorce, by CS Lewis, Vanity Fair, by Thackeray, and Dune by Frank Herbert.
Sky News: "negotiation in the round hasn't started yet."
Is the PM still trying to explain cricket to 27 others around the table?
You have two sides, one out in the field and one in. Each man that's in the side that's in goes out, and when he's out he comes in and the next man goes in until he's out. When they are all out, the side that's out comes in and the side thats been in goes out and tries to get those coming in, out. Sometimes you get men still in and not out. When a man goes out to go in, the men who are out try to get him out, and when he is out he goes in and the next man in goes out and goes in. There are two men called umpires who stay all out all the time and they decide when the men who are in are out. When both sides have been in and all the men have out, and both sides have been out twice after all the men have been in, including those who are not out, that is the end of the game! [And then England lose]
But Boris is the big prize, and the Speccie says he's still an unknown. He must worry Cameron. Boris has the charisma and popularity to win it for LEAVE, even if he is also a risk.
The fact that Boris has kept his options open seems clear he is an outer.
Au contraire, it gives him leverage for the cabinet role he desires. I think Boris is a Boriser.
I wonder what other PBers' favorite books are. I would have a very hard time choosing, but Candide must be right up there.
Four in my top 10 novels are:-
- Vanity Fair - Anna Karenina - Jane Eyre - Animal Farm
Seriously, Mrs Free? Such highbrow stuff? Makes me look such a pleb but the books that have given me the greatest pleasure and which I have read many times over the years are
- Red Storm Rising (Tom Clancy) - Catch 22 (Joseph Heller) - Flashman in the Great Game (George macDonald Fraser) - Don Camillio, 1955 Omnibus Edition (Giovanni Guareschi) - Just about anything by P.G. Wodehouse
Quite like Don Camillo. Have never got Wodehouse. I do like Waugh, though. Scoop is fantastic.
Don Camillo is fantastic - a series of tales of love and hope. My father introduced him to me when I was about 10 and it is my Dad's copy of the book that sits on my shelf that I pick up whenever I feel pissed off at the world.
Wodehouse is very, very English. I introduced my boy to it when he was about 12 and it didn't click at all. I tried again when he was 15 or so, same result. Yet a few months ago I was driving him back to Leeds and I put on a talking book of "Summer Lightning" and he loved it - he is now in the process of enjoying all the Wodehouse books for the first time. I envy him.
Wodehouse is probably the funniest writer ever, but I find it hard to distinguish one book from another, in my memory.
All the Eurofanatics seem to be ignoring all of the evidence which suggests Dave had no intention of ever trying to obtain real reform of the UK's relationship with the EU.
One of the reasons Carswell defected to UKIP was because he believed that Dave was only going to try and obtain minor cosmetic changes. Looks like he was right... All the undecideds and remainers said he was wrong and accused him of lying...
He did not believe Mr Cameron’s policy was “sincere,” saying the Tory leadership wanted to secure "just enough" to pretend change was happening.
Whether the leadership was sincere or not was moot, there is a reason the likes of Hannan and Redwood and even Davis didn't defect. The only chance of leave was for Cameron to win the General Election and then Leave to win the argument. That job is half done, now Leave need to win the argument.
Had Farage succeeded in putting Miliband into Downing Street then there'd be no chance of Leave winning.
All the Eurofanatics seem to be ignoring all of the evidence which suggests Dave had no intention of ever trying to obtain real reform of the UK's relationship with the EU.
One of the reasons Carswell defected to UKIP was because he believed that Dave was only going to try and obtain minor cosmetic changes. Looks like he was right... All the undecideds and remainers said he was wrong and accused him of lying...
He did not believe Mr Cameron’s policy was “sincere,” saying the Tory leadership wanted to secure "just enough" to pretend change was happening.
Whether the leadership was sincere or not was moot, there is a reason the likes of Hannan and Redwood and even Davis didn't defect. The only chance of leave was for Cameron to win the General Election and then Leave to win the argument. That job is half done, now Leave need to win the argument.
Had Farage succeeded in putting Miliband into Downing Street then there'd be no chance of Leave winning. A Tory government propped up by a handful of UKIP MPs would have enabled a proper renegotiation to take place. Instead we have a once in a generation opportunity which will change practically nothing. If the posts earlier are to be believed the migrant benefits proposal will save £30m per year... I would have much rather the Tories lost, replaced Dave with someone who has some backbone and have a referendum in 5/10 years when no doubt the EU will be having another crisis.
John Le Carre is pretty great. Tinker Tailor and all that.
I liked him at the time but his world weariness and down beat attitude to Britain got too much eventually. I preferred Len Deighton, especially his Game Set and Match series.
Otherwise I admire Cyclefree's erudition but I prefer
God emperor of Dune by Frank Herbert Excession by Iain Banks Thief of time by Pratchett (and pretty much anything else by him) The Witching hour by Anne Rice Intellectual I ain't.
I'm probably a fellow traveller:
Cryptonomicon (Stephenson) Flashman in the Great Game (GMF ofc) Player of Games (Banks) Dune (Herbert) A Song for Arbonne (Kay) The Little Drummer Girl (Le Carre) The Hammer & The Cross trilogy (Harrison) - particularly recommended to M. Dancer.
Hmmm... if you're going to do Stephenson, it has to be Snow Crash
Snow Crash has aged very badly, though it's still fun. Cryptonomicon needed a tougher editor, but it's a rattling good yarn. Zodiac is a change of pace for him (it was an early unpublished novel that finally got an airing - uneven, but the promise is clearly there).
I do find it rather amusing that the BBC's Europe Correspondent is one Chris Morris.... Going be looking forward to those reports. Especially if he manages to get Cameron to declare war on the French, live on air.....
John Le Carre is pretty great. Tinker Tailor and all that.
I liked him at the time but his world weariness and down beat attitude to Britain got too much eventually. I preferred Len Deighton, especially his Game Set and Match series.
Otherwise I admire Cyclefree's erudition but I prefer
Excession by Iain Banks Thief of time by Pratchett (and pretty much anything else by him)
Funny how personal taste goes, I consider those 2 of the weaker books by both authors.
That is weird. Player of Games rather than Excession I was tempted to go for but I think Excession is very funny as well as clever. Choosing the best Pratchett is a mugs game and I was tempted by any book featuring Granny Weatheraxe but the monks of time are a great idea.
'All the Eurofanatics seem to be ignoring all of the evidence which suggests Dave had no intention of ever trying to obtain real reform of the UK's relationship with the EU. '
Actually I think their position is shifting on that.
Now they are arguing that regardless of the negotiations they would have always voted to stay in anyway. And that is what the PM is essentially saying and some of his chums in big business will say as well - 'even an unreformed EU is better than the alternatives (scare scare)'
Which of course means the whole renegotiation process is being accepted by the Remain side as having been empty, pointless.
I suppose it's progress of a sort that the Europhiles are now inching towards expressing what they really think...
Huckleberry Finn is my favourite book that I have only read once - and a fair few years ago. Looking forward to reading it again to see how it shapes up second time around.
John Le Carre is pretty great. Tinker Tailor and all that.
I liked him at the time but his world weariness and down beat attitude to Britain got too much eventually. I preferred Len Deighton, especially his Game Set and Match series.
Otherwise I admire Cyclefree's erudition but I prefer
God emperor of Dune by Frank Herbert Excession by Iain Banks Thief of time by Pratchett (and pretty much anything else by him) The Witching hour by Anne Rice Intellectual I ain't.
I'm probably a fellow traveller:
Cryptonomicon (Stephenson) Flashman in the Great Game (GMF ofc) Player of Games (Banks) Dune (Herbert) A Song for Arbonne (Kay) The Little Drummer Girl (Le Carre) The Hammer & The Cross trilogy (Harrison) - particularly recommended to M. Dancer.
Hmmm... if you're going to do Stephenson, it has to be Snow Crash
Snow Crash has aged very badly, though it's still fun. Cryptonomicon needed a tougher editor, but it's a rattling good yarn. Zodiac is a change of pace for him (it was an early unpublished novel that finally got an airing - uneven, but the promise is clearly there).
Sky News: "negotiation in the round hasn't started yet."
Is the PM still trying to explain cricket to 27 others around the table?
You have two sides, one out in the field and one in. Each man that's in the side that's in goes out, and when he's out he comes in and the next man goes in until he's out. When they are all out, the side that's out comes in and the side thats been in goes out and tries to get those coming in, out. Sometimes you get men still in and not out. When a man goes out to go in, the men who are out try to get him out, and when he is out he goes in and the next man in goes out and goes in. There are two men called umpires who stay all out all the time and they decide when the men who are in are out. When both sides have been in and all the men have out, and both sides have been out twice after all the men have been in, including those who are not out, that is the end of the game!
Mr. Taffys, the media's uncompromising stance might be in part due to Labour's weakness. The press can go for Cameron's jugular, because, come election time, not only will he not be there, but Labour may well be led by an idiot who is also a step away from being a communist.
I think the 'being lied to' thing is also a factor.
As Sean T said earlier, we're being taken for idiots. Its insulting. Dave would have had a great deal of sympathy if he'd said - ' look, I doubt we;ll get much, but I'll do my best'
Pardon me but the only people taking their audience for idiots are you, SeanT and the rest of the assembled PB Brains Trust.
Well I'm happy to admit that back at the time of Cameron's Bloomberg speech I was still open to the possibility that the renegotiation might actually achieve something concrete and valuable for the UK.
I would still have voted LEAVE because I have been opposed to the UK's EU membership since the early 1990s; Maastricht was the tipping point for me.
But with some genuine repatriations of power and cast-iron protections for the financial sector we would at least have been looking at an EU which was less intolerable and we would have been moving in the right direction.
Then the renegotiation began and it became clear extremely quickly that the whole thing was a sham. Briefing after briefing came in revealing the PM abandoning one demand after another until all that was left was what I described as a homeopathic deal, watered down to nothing.
As we railed against this sell-out on here, we were told by Richard N and the other Camspinners to hold on, wait for the actual deal. We did, and all the briefings turned out to be correct i.e. the deal consisted of absolutely nothing.
Now the Camspinners are quite openly saying they would always have voted Remain anyway, and admitting that the whole renegotiation was pointless.
All the Eurofanatics seem to be ignoring all of the evidence which suggests Dave had no intention of ever trying to obtain real reform of the UK's relationship with the EU.
One of the reasons Carswell defected to UKIP was because he believed that Dave was only going to try and obtain minor cosmetic changes. Looks like he was right... All the undecideds and remainers said he was wrong and accused him of lying...
He did not believe Mr Cameron’s policy was “sincere,” saying the Tory leadership wanted to secure "just enough" to pretend change was happening.
Whether the leadership was sincere or not was moot, there is a reason the likes of Hannan and Redwood and even Davis didn't defect. The only chance of leave was for Cameron to win the General Election and then Leave to win the argument. That job is half done, now Leave need to win the argument.
Had Farage succeeded in putting Miliband into Downing Street then there'd be no chance of Leave winning.
Indeed. Something too often forgotten on here. Not forgotten by Mark Reckless though
The Tory Eurosceptics are about to make themselves very vocal, good on Gove if the rumours are true.
The PM's main problem is this ridiculously optimistic timetable he's set himself. I was expecting a couple of years of bilateral meetings to find compromise and so forth, which is why initially I thought the referendum would be in 2017.
David Cameron strikes me as a man who has never found it neccessary to drive a hard bargain to buy a house, or a car... or anything - and it's showing now.
Now I know he's not to everyone's tastes, but can't we send Donald J Trump into bat as a substitute for us in the Euro negotiations ?
Maybe Cameron would have found the actual negotiations easier if he hadn't declared he wants to stay in the EU beforehand.
Announcing before the negotiations have even started that you are going to accept a deal is not a strategy that is likely to bring the best result.
You have to announce that you'll accept the right deal. Nobody negotiates a deal to buy a house without an underlying assumption that you want to accept a deal at the end of negotiations.
Really? I guess my negotiation training and years of experience were all for naught then, because I've never negotiated on that basis on either end of any deal.
That's fine, I've had years of negotiating too and I've never gone into a negotiation with the impression that I wouldn't accept any deal no matter what. Have you?
All the Eurofanatics seem to be ignoring all of the evidence which suggests Dave had no intention of ever trying to obtain real reform of the UK's relationship with the EU.
One of the reasons Carswell defected to UKIP was because he believed that Dave was only going to try and obtain minor cosmetic changes. Looks like he was right... All the undecideds and remainers said he was wrong and accused him of lying...
He did not believe Mr Cameron’s policy was “sincere,” saying the Tory leadership wanted to secure "just enough" to pretend change was happening.
Whether the leadership was sincere or not was moot, there is a reason the likes of Hannan and Redwood and even Davis didn't defect. The only chance of leave was for Cameron to win the General Election and then Leave to win the argument. That job is half done, now Leave need to win the argument.
Had Farage succeeded in putting Miliband into Downing Street then there'd be no chance of Leave winning.
A Tory government propped up by a handful of UKIP MPs would have enabled a proper renegotiation to take place. Instead we have a once in a generation opportunity which will change practically nothing. If the posts earlier are to be believed the migrant benefits proposal will save £30m per year... I would have much rather the Tories lost, replaced Dave with someone who has some backbone and have a referendum in 5/10 years when no doubt the EU will be having another crisis. The child benefit changes amount to about £30 million a year I believe. But I also believe that is not the only benefit to be changing just one of the more controversial ones.
People forget that the other route Cameron could have gone down is say something along the lines of "I think we should be in the EU but this issue is clearly dividing people so let's have an in/out referendum to settle the matter. I will be campaigning for an in vote."
We would have largely the same outcome but with no changes at all. As a remain leaner who sees serious flaws in the EU I think that would be a wasted opportunity. Better to be members of a marginally better EU than affirmed to be members of a totally unreformed one. Even.if the benefit changes in total are only about £100mn a year let's imagine then that is better than nothing.
The PM's main problem is this ridiculously optimistic timetable he's set himself. I was expecting a couple of years of bilateral meetings to find compromise and so forth, which is why initially I thought the referendum would be in 2017.
But Boris is the big prize, and the Speccie says he's still an unknown. He must worry Cameron. Boris has the charisma and popularity to win it for LEAVE, even if he is also a risk.
The fact that Boris has kept his options open seems clear he is an outer.
The PM's main problem is this ridiculously optimistic timetable he's set himself. I was expecting a couple of years of bilateral meetings to find compromise and so forth, which is why initially I thought the referendum would be in 2017.
I wonder what other PBers' favorite books are. I would have a very hard time choosing, but Candide must be right up there.
Four in my top 10 novels are:-
- Vanity Fair - Anna Karenina - Jane Eyre - Animal Farm
Seriously, Mrs Free? Such highbrow stuff? Makes me look such a pleb but the books that have given me the greatest pleasure and which I have read many times over the years are
- Red Storm Rising (Tom Clancy) - Catch 22 (Joseph Heller) - Flashman in the Great Game (George macDonald Fraser) - Don Camillio, 1955 Omnibus Edition (Giovanni Guareschi) - Just about anything by P.G. Wodehouse
Quite like Don Camillo. Have never got Wodehouse. I do like Waugh, though. Scoop is fantastic.
Don Camillo is fantastic - a series of tales of love and hope. My father introduced him to me when I was about 10 and it is my Dad's copy of the book that sits on my shelf that I pick up whenever I feel pissed off at the world.
Wodehouse is very, very English. I introduced my boy to it when he was about 12 and it didn't click at all. I tried again when he was 15 or so, same result. Yet a few months ago I was driving him back to Leeds and I put on a talking book of "Summer Lightning" and he loved it - he is now in the process of enjoying all the Wodehouse books for the first time. I envy him.
I love the development of the stories in Don Camillo. The first 5 or 6 tales seem to be about little more than a couple of blokes hitting each other over the head, but the subtlety with which things become much more than that is pitch perfect. I am biased though, having spent a small portion of my life in the Po valley.
But personally, the one that fired my imagination most in book form growing up was The Three Musketeers, with the additional benefit that you can wind up right-on types by claiming an interest in black fiction without having to have read anything that doesn't involve masses of sword fights.
David Cameron strikes me as a man who has never found it neccessary to drive a hard bargain to buy a house, or a car... or anything - and it's showing now.
Now I know he's not to everyone's tastes, but can't we send Donald J Trump into bat as a substitute for us in the Euro negotiations ?
Maybe Cameron would have found the actual negotiations easier if he hadn't declared he wants to stay in the EU beforehand.
Announcing before the negotiations have even started that you are going to accept a deal is not a strategy that is likely to bring the best result.
You have to announce that you'll accept the right deal. Nobody negotiates a deal to buy a house without an underlying assumption that you want to accept a deal at the end of negotiations.
Really? I guess my negotiation training and years of experience were all for naught then, because I've never negotiated on that basis on either end of any deal.
That's fine, I've had years of negotiating too and I've never gone into a negotiation with the impression that I wouldn't accept any deal no matter what. Have you?
I have. Sometimes you do have to walk away.
That's not what I denied. Of course you sometimes have to walk away. But you have to want a deal or else the whole thing is pointless. You don't enter negotiations if you're unwilling to make any deal.
Well I'm happy to admit that back at the time of Cameron's Bloomberg speech I was still open to the possibility that the renegotiation might actually achieve something concrete and valuable for the UK.
I would still have voted LEAVE because I have been opposed to the UK's EU membership since the early 1990s; Maastricht was the tipping point for me.
But with some genuine repatriations of power and cast-iron protections for the financial sector we would at least have been looking at an EU which was less intolerable and we would have been moving in the right direction.
Then the renegotiation began and it became clear extremely quickly that the whole thing was a sham. Briefing after briefing came in revealing the PM abandoning one demand after another until all that was left was what I described as a homeopathic deal, watered down to nothing.
As we railed against this sell-out on here, we were told by Richard N and the other Camspinners to hold on, wait for the actual deal. We did, and all the briefings turned out to be correct i.e. the deal consisted of absolutely nothing.
Now the Camspinners are quite openly saying they would always have voted Remain anyway, and admitting that the whole renegotiation was pointless.
So Sanders is ahead in 3 out of the 10 Super Tuesday states that have been polled, the only state not to have been polled in Minnesota which should favour Sanders. If Sanders wins Nevada he will probably win 5 out of the 11 Super Tuesday states (Oklahoma is too close to call at present polling).
David Cameron strikes me as a man who has never found it neccessary to drive a hard bargain to buy a house, or a car... or anything - and it's showing now.
Now I know he's not to everyone's tastes, but can't we send Donald J Trump into bat as a substitute for us in the Euro negotiations ?
Maybe Cameron would have found the actual negotiations easier if he hadn't declared he wants to stay in the EU beforehand.
Announcing before the negotiations have even started that you are going to accept a deal is not a strategy that is likely to bring the best result.
You have to announce that you'll accept the right deal. Nobody negotiates a deal to buy a house without an underlying assumption that you want to accept a deal at the end of negotiations.
Really? I guess my negotiation training and years of experience were all for naught then, because I've never negotiated on that basis on either end of any deal.
That's fine, I've had years of negotiating too and I've never gone into a negotiation with the impression that I wouldn't accept any deal no matter what. Have you?
I have. Sometimes you do have to walk away.
That's not what I denied. Of course you sometimes have to walk away. But you have to want a deal or else the whole thing is pointless. You don't enter negotiations if you're unwilling to make any deal.
Did all EU states enter the negotiation willingly?
But Boris is the big prize, and the Speccie says he's still an unknown. He must worry Cameron. Boris has the charisma and popularity to win it for LEAVE, even if he is also a risk.
The fact that Boris has kept his options open seems clear he is an outer.
Nah Boris is a Boriser
doesn;t give a shit as long as it gets him votes
I can see you are going to be a wee ray of sunshine during the 5 years of PM Boris.
The PM's main problem is this ridiculously optimistic timetable he's set himself. I was expecting a couple of years of bilateral meetings to find compromise and so forth, which is why initially I thought the referendum would be in 2017.
He's rushed it. Big style.
I think the bilateral discussions were already fairly advanced before the election.
The PM's main problem is this ridiculously optimistic timetable he's set himself. I was expecting a couple of years of bilateral meetings to find compromise and so forth, which is why initially I thought the referendum would be in 2017.
He's rushed it. Big style.
What is the set date for the referendum?
June 23rd according to like... everyone
Blimey, that soon! – Mind you, quite a few dates have come and gone according to 'everyone'.
But Boris is the big prize, and the Speccie says he's still an unknown. He must worry Cameron. Boris has the charisma and popularity to win it for LEAVE, even if he is also a risk.
The fact that Boris has kept his options open seems clear he is an outer.
Nah Boris is a Boriser
doesn;t give a shit as long as it gets him votes
I can see you are going to be a wee ray of sunshine during the 5 years of PM Boris.
The PM's main problem is this ridiculously optimistic timetable he's set himself. I was expecting a couple of years of bilateral meetings to find compromise and so forth, which is why initially I thought the referendum would be in 2017.
He's rushed it. Big style.
A lot of the Euro federalists have been discussing the creation of a two-speed EU. This would have enabled us to become an associate member and the rest of the Eurozone to integrate further. As treaty change would be required this was never going to be an option available to Dave. Associate membership plus real reform of the EU may have been possible had Dave pursued a longer timescale or agreed to hold the referendum later than 2017.
Top books (as defined by those I have re-read on many occasions) for me in no particular order
The Alexandria Quartet - Laurence Durrell Tiger Tiger - Alfred Bester The General in his Labyrinth - Gabriel Garcia Marquez One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich - Alexander Solzhenitsyn The Lord of the Rings - JRR Tolkein Crime and Punishment - Fyodor Dostoyevsky Captains Courageous - Rudyard Kipling The Name of the Rose - Umberto Eco
I would also add anything by;
Terry Pratchett Douglas Adams Peter Hamilton Harry Harrison PG Woodhouse
So Sanders is ahead in 3 out of the 10 Super Tuesday states that have been polled, the only state not to have been polled in Minnesota which should favour Sanders. If Sanders wins Nevada he will probably win 5 out of the 11 Super Tuesday states (Oklahoma is too close to call at present polling).
Looking grim for Bush. He may continue though IMHO right through the primary season, if he's feeling selfish and thinking of the long game. A Rubio presidency means its over for Bush. A Trump GOP candidacy (helped by the failure of 'middle' ground candidates to coalesce around a single figure (helped by Bush pushing on), means good chance of a one term Clinton presidency and another go for Bush in 4 years.
Tomas Prouza @CZSecStateEU As the time passes, I am more and more perplexed by the #British approach of non-negotiation. Quite unorthodox, to say the least.
From experience of endless Eurozone crisis summits, the deal will be done on Monday morning just before markets open, to be followed by another crisis summit on Thursday for a revisiting of the deal after it falls apart.
The PM's main problem is this ridiculously optimistic timetable he's set himself. I was expecting a couple of years of bilateral meetings to find compromise and so forth, which is why initially I thought the referendum would be in 2017.
He's rushed it. Big style.
A lot of the Euro federalists have been discussing the creation of a two-speed EU. This would have enabled us to become an associate member and the rest of the Eurozone to integrate further. As treaty change would be required this was never going to be an option available to Dave. Associate membership plus real reform of the EU may have been possible had Dave pursued a longer timescale or agreed to hold the referendum later than 2017.
Associated membership could happen without any negotiations by suggesting we Leave and join the EEA. As Cameron isn't seeking leave as an end goal, why would that be the object of his negotiations?
I wonder what other PBers' favorite books are. I would have a very hard time choosing, but Candide must be right up there.
Four in my top 10 novels are:-
- Vanity Fair - Anna Karenina - Jane Eyre - Animal Farm
Seriously, Mrs Free? Such highbrow stuff? Makes me look such a pleb but the books that have given me the greatest pleasure and which I have read many times over the years are
- Red Storm Rising (Tom Clancy) - Catch 22 (Joseph Heller) - Flashman in the Great Game (George macDonald Fraser) - Don Camillio, 1955 Omnibus Edition (Giovanni Guareschi) - Just about anything by P.G. Wodehouse
Quite like Don Camillo. Have never got Wodehouse. I do like Waugh, though. Scoop is fantastic.
Don Camillo is fantastic - a series of tales of love and hope. My father introduced him to me when I was about 10 and it is my Dad's copy of the book that sits on my shelf that I pick up whenever I feel pissed off at the world.
Wodehouse is very, very English. I introduced my boy to it when he was about 12 and it didn't click at all. I tried again when he was 15 or so, same result. Yet a few months ago I was driving him back to Leeds and I put on a talking book of "Summer Lightning" and he loved it - he is now in the process of enjoying all the Wodehouse books for the first time. I envy him.
I love the development of the stories in Don Camillo. The first 5 or 6 tales seem to be about little more than a couple of blokes hitting each other over the head, but the subtlety with which things become much more than that is pitch perfect. I am biased though, having spent a small portion of my life in the Po valley.
But personally, the one that fired my imagination most in book form growing up was The Three Musketeers, with the additional benefit that you can wind up right-on types by claiming an interest in black fiction without having to have read anything that doesn't involve masses of sword fights.
The Black Count is an extremely good book about Alexandre Dumas Grandpere.
Dumas came up with a brilliant riposte when told by one rival novelist "Your grandfather was a monkey." "It appears that my family tree begins where yours ends."
I wonder what other PBers' favorite books are. I would have a very hard time choosing, but Candide must be right up there.
Four in my top 10 novels are:-
- Vanity Fair - Anna Karenina - Jane Eyre - Animal Farm
Seriously, Mrs Free? Such highbrow stuff? Makes me look such a pleb but the books that have given me the greatest pleasure and which I have read many times over the years are
- Red Storm Rising (Tom Clancy) - Catch 22 (Joseph Heller) - Flashman in the Great Game (George macDonald Fraser) - Don Camillio, 1955 Omnibus Edition (Giovanni Guareschi) - Just about anything by P.G. Wodehouse
Quite like Don Camillo. Have never got Wodehouse. I do like Waugh, though. Scoop is fantastic.
Don Camillo is fantastic - a series of tales of love and hope. My father introduced him to me when I was about 10 and it is my Dad's copy of the book that sits on my shelf that I pick up whenever I feel pissed off at the world.
Wodehouse is very, very English. I introduced my boy to it when he was about 12 and it didn't click at all. I tried again when he was 15 or so, same result. Yet a few months ago I was driving him back to Leeds and I put on a talking book of "Summer Lightning" and he loved it - he is now in the process of enjoying all the Wodehouse books for the first time. I envy him.
Wodehouse is probably the funniest writer ever, but I find it hard to distinguish one book from another, in my memory.
In the foreword of copy of Summer Lightning that I had, which, alas, fell to Herself's great book purge, Wodehouse said something like:
"... A critic said of my last book that it contained all the old Wodehouse characters but with different names. In this book I have out-generalled him. It contains all the old Wodehouse characters under the same names. He has, by now, probably been eaten by bears like the children who mocked the prophet Elijah ..."
So Sanders is ahead in 3 out of the 10 Super Tuesday states that have been polled, the only state not to have been polled in Minnesota which should favour Sanders. If Sanders wins Nevada he will probably win 5 out of the 11 Super Tuesday states (Oklahoma is too close to call at present polling).
Looking grim for Bush. He may continue though IMHO right through the primary season, if he's feeling selfish and thinking of the long game. A Rubio presidency means its over for Bush. A Trump GOP candidacy (helped by the failure of 'middle' ground candidates to coalesce around a single figure (helped by Bush pushing on), means good chance of a one term Clinton presidency and another go for Bush in 4 years.
You know how grim it is for Bush? On CNN last night they said that Bush said to journalists:
"prepare for the inevitable, pray for me and my family"
So Sanders is ahead in 3 out of the 10 Super Tuesday states that have been polled, the only state not to have been polled in Minnesota which should favour Sanders. If Sanders wins Nevada he will probably win 5 out of the 11 Super Tuesday states (Oklahoma is too close to call at present polling).
Looking grim for Bush. He may continue though IMHO right through the primary season, if he's feeling selfish and thinking of the long game. A Rubio presidency means its over for Bush. A Trump GOP candidacy (helped by the failure of 'middle' ground candidates to coalesce around a single figure (helped by Bush pushing on), means good chance of a one term Clinton presidency and another go for Bush in 4 years.
Bush is just hoping to stay in by sheer weight of money, hoping to mop up the moderates as others drop out. Not sure he can see Rubio off though, it could end up being a four or even five man race right to the Convention - and the only winner from that scenario is Trump.
Rather like the SCOTUS nomination, what's good for any individual is bad for the party in general. Right now Bush, Rubio and Kasich all need two of the others to drop out, but all of them want it to be the other two.
'Associate membership plus real reform of the EU may have been possible had Dave pursued a longer timescale or agreed to hold the referendum later than 2017.'
Yes they have but a couple of things need to be clear -
1. Associate membership as conceived by these people would not be any 'looser' than what we have now, just a rebranding. 2. The European Federalists also want to pressure the EU outs in EFTA and the EEA into this Associate membership as well. And they have had British ministers and civil servants trying to sell this to, inter alia, the Icelanders. I wonder why?
Why do you care about this so much to become so expert? Also, if you are correct in thinking that Obama is not a NBC, then do you take the view that anything legally "done" by him during his Presidency is void under US law?
I don't really care, but was bored enough to become an expert in the subject. It's not so difficult, and keeps the brain cells exercised.
I also know the difference between persuasive or conclusive facts and logic, and self-serving bullshit or invention - a distinction that I feel ought to be preserved, whatever the issue.
I've not yet become an expert on what might be done in the event of Obama being declared ineligible, after 8 years in office, as I concede it is a remote possibility, whereas stopping Cruz is a far more realistic proposition...
So Sanders is ahead in 3 out of the 10 Super Tuesday states that have been polled, the only state not to have been polled in Minnesota which should favour Sanders. If Sanders wins Nevada he will probably win 5 out of the 11 Super Tuesday states (Oklahoma is too close to call at present polling).
Looking grim for Bush. He may continue though IMHO right through the primary season, if he's feeling selfish and thinking of the long game. A Rubio presidency means its over for Bush. A Trump GOP candidacy (helped by the failure of 'middle' ground candidates to coalesce around a single figure (helped by Bush pushing on), means good chance of a one term Clinton presidency and another go for Bush in 4 years.
You know how grim it is for Bush? On CNN last night they said that Bush said to journalists:
"prepare for the inevitable, pray for me and my family"
Comments
As Sean T said earlier, we're being taken for idiots. Its insulting. Dave would have had a great deal of sympathy if he'd said - ' look, I doubt we;ll get much, but I'll do my best'
GOP presidential candidate market. Published in 2008. It was a very Green book. Favourite character was John Mc Cain.
Otherwise I admire Cyclefree's erudition but I prefer
God emperor of Dune by Frank Herbert
Excession by Iain Banks
Thief of time by Pratchett (and pretty much anything else by him)
The Witching hour by Anne Rice
Intellectual I ain't.
"Real Madrid to win La Liga 07/08 - 9/4" Stan James
And despite a bright start, England about to fail to use all their overs for the third match running.
:-)
Cryptonomicon (Stephenson)
Flashman in the Great Game (GMF ofc)
Player of Games (Banks)
Dune (Herbert)
A Song for Arbonne (Kay)
The Little Drummer Girl (Le Carre)
The Hammer & The Cross trilogy (Harrison) - particularly recommended to M. Dancer.
Wodehouse is very, very English. I introduced my boy to it when he was about 12 and it didn't click at all. I tried again when he was 15 or so, same result. Yet a few months ago I was driving him back to Leeds and I put on a talking book of "Summer Lightning" and he loved it - he is now in the process of enjoying all the Wodehouse books for the first time. I envy him.
https://twitter.com/holyroodmandy/status/700684430029918208
Them by Jon Ronson
One of the reasons Carswell defected to UKIP was because he believed that Dave was only going to try and obtain minor cosmetic changes. Looks like he was right... All the undecideds and remainers said he was wrong and accused him of lying... http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/douglas-carswell-defection-eurosceptic-ex-tory-mp-fires-parting-shot-at-david-cameron-9697382.html
He was still stupid to defect.
Whether the leadership was sincere or not was moot, there is a reason the likes of Hannan and Redwood and even Davis didn't defect. The only chance of leave was for Cameron to win the General Election and then Leave to win the argument. That job is half done, now Leave need to win the argument.
Had Farage succeeded in putting Miliband into Downing Street then there'd be no chance of Leave winning.
When a man goes out to go in, the men who are out try to get him out, and when he is out he goes in and the next man in goes out and goes in. There are two men called umpires who stay all out all the time and they decide when the men who are in are out.
When both sides have been in and all the men have out, and both sides have been out twice after all the men have been in, including those who are not out, that is the end of the game! [And then England lose]
Or is that Cameron's negotiation strategy notes?
Middlemarch
Team of Rivals
1984
Spy who came in from the cold
Danny champion of the world
Moonraker or almost anything by Fleming for fun
Whether the leadership was sincere or not was moot, there is a reason the likes of Hannan and Redwood and even Davis didn't defect. The only chance of leave was for Cameron to win the General Election and then Leave to win the argument. That job is half done, now Leave need to win the argument.
Had Farage succeeded in putting Miliband into Downing Street then there'd be no chance of Leave winning.
Indeed. Something too often forgotten on here.
Whether the leadership was sincere or not was moot, there is a reason the likes of Hannan and Redwood and even Davis didn't defect. The only chance of leave was for Cameron to win the General Election and then Leave to win the argument. That job is half done, now Leave need to win the argument.
Had Farage succeeded in putting Miliband into Downing Street then there'd be no chance of Leave winning.
A Tory government propped up by a handful of UKIP MPs would have enabled a proper renegotiation to take place. Instead we have a once in a generation opportunity which will change practically nothing. If the posts earlier are to be believed the migrant benefits proposal will save £30m per year... I would have much rather the Tories lost, replaced Dave with someone who has some backbone and have a referendum in 5/10 years when no doubt the EU will be having another crisis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3BO6GP9NMY
What are your favourites by those authors?
Actually I think their position is shifting on that.
Now they are arguing that regardless of the negotiations they would have always voted to stay in anyway. And that is what the PM is essentially saying and some of his chums in big business will say as well - 'even an unreformed EU is better than the alternatives (scare scare)'
Which of course means the whole renegotiation process is being accepted by the Remain side as having been empty, pointless.
I suppose it's progress of a sort that the Europhiles are now inching towards expressing what they really think...
Not forgotten by Mark Reckless though
The Tory Eurosceptics are about to make themselves very vocal, good on Gove if the rumours are true.
He's rushed it. Big style.
The child benefit changes amount to about £30 million a year I believe. But I also believe that is not the only benefit to be changing just one of the more controversial ones.
People forget that the other route Cameron could have gone down is say something along the lines of "I think we should be in the EU but this issue is clearly dividing people so let's have an in/out referendum to settle the matter. I will be campaigning for an in vote."
We would have largely the same outcome but with no changes at all. As a remain leaner who sees serious flaws in the EU I think that would be a wasted opportunity. Better to be members of a marginally better EU than affirmed to be members of a totally unreformed one. Even.if the benefit changes in total are only about £100mn a year let's imagine then that is better than nothing.
doesn;t give a shit as long as it gets him votes
But personally, the one that fired my imagination most in book form growing up was The Three Musketeers, with the additional benefit that you can wind up right-on types by claiming an interest in black fiction without having to have read anything that doesn't involve masses of sword fights.
Eng 134/8 after 20 ovs.
And that is it really. Game over.
Awww fuck it lets just go/
ARG
Trump 34 +1
Cruz 13 -1
Rubio 22 +8
Bush 9 +1
Kasich 14 0
Carson 4 +1
Emerson
Trump 36 +3
Cruz 18 -7
Rubio 19 0
Bush 9 +1
Kasich 14 +1
Carson 4 +1
SC House GOP
Trump 34 0
Cruz 18 +2
Rubio 16 +1
Bush 14 -1
Kasich 9 +1
Carson 5 -2
There will probably be some last updates from them tonight.
Also there is a Colorado poll for the DEM caucus (Super Tuesday state)
Sanders 49
Hillary 43
http://freebeacon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/colorado_democratic_caucus_survey_topline_final.pdf
So Sanders is ahead in 3 out of the 10 Super Tuesday states that have been polled, the only state not to have been polled in Minnesota which should favour Sanders.
If Sanders wins Nevada he will probably win 5 out of the 11 Super Tuesday states (Oklahoma is too close to call at present polling).
Kidnapped/Catriona
Count of Monte Cristo
Lord of the Rings
To Kill a Mocking Bird
Of Mice and Men
The Three Musketeers
My husband actually thought that Cameron had achieved the change in the #eurovision voting. Words fail me.
The Alexandria Quartet - Laurence Durrell
Tiger Tiger - Alfred Bester
The General in his Labyrinth - Gabriel Garcia Marquez
One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich - Alexander Solzhenitsyn
The Lord of the Rings - JRR Tolkein
Crime and Punishment - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Captains Courageous - Rudyard Kipling
The Name of the Rose - Umberto Eco
I would also add anything by;
Terry Pratchett
Douglas Adams
Peter Hamilton
Harry Harrison
PG Woodhouse
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/can-june-sarpong-save-the-day-for-the-in-campaign/
Dumas came up with a brilliant riposte when told by one rival novelist "Your grandfather was a monkey." "It appears that my family tree begins where yours ends."
I expect W, HW and Jeb will vote for Clinton (Or more likely not bother) if it comes to that choice.
"... A critic said of my last book that it contained all the old Wodehouse characters but with different names. In this book I have out-generalled him. It contains all the old Wodehouse characters under the same names. He has, by now, probably been eaten by bears like the children who mocked the prophet Elijah ..."
On CNN last night they said that Bush said to journalists:
"prepare for the inevitable, pray for me and my family"
Rather like the SCOTUS nomination, what's good for any individual is bad for the party in general. Right now Bush, Rubio and Kasich all need two of the others to drop out, but all of them want it to be the other two.
Yes they have but a couple of things need to be clear -
1. Associate membership as conceived by these people would not be any 'looser' than what we have now, just a rebranding.
2. The European Federalists also want to pressure the EU outs in EFTA and the EEA into this Associate membership as well. And they have had British ministers and civil servants trying to sell this to, inter alia, the Icelanders. I wonder why?
I also know the difference between persuasive or conclusive facts and logic, and self-serving bullshit or invention - a distinction that I feel ought to be preserved, whatever the issue.
I've not yet become an expert on what might be done in the event of Obama being declared ineligible, after 8 years in office, as I concede it is a remote possibility, whereas stopping Cruz is a far more realistic proposition...