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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The doubts over Cruz’s eligibility will hurt him in the eye

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  • JonCisBackJonCisBack Posts: 911
    We got a "remain" advert through the door yesterday, basically a 4 page A3 colour broadsheet with "facts" about the EU and "myths" allegedly "debunked".

    Top of their list on the front page was that "3 million" jobs depend on our being in the EU. Also apparently all our trade is going to stop if we leave (I paraphrase, but not much)

    I didn't bother reading the rest before dutifully complying with the latest EU recycling diktat...
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,755
    edited 2016 21
    SeanT said:

    taffys said:

    I wonder what price you could get on 'no referendum vote under Cameron'. You could see the calendar drifting endlessly as the situation in Europe disintegrates further in the summer and remain looks less and less likely.

    This time next year the back benchers start to seriously lose patience and Cameron will hold a leadership election in the summer, before he has to do what he can not do. Hold a referendum and lose.

    Fascinating. Quite plausible. Not likely, but plausible.

    Certainly more likely than Cameron deciding he's got a bad deal and campaigning for LEAVE

    What a charade this is. Same as the first referendum. Trouble for europhiles this time is that events are hostile.
    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/#/politics/market/1.118739910 around 12-1.

    I'm on the other side of this bet at around 1-7.
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    ergo, Cruz's Constitutional status at birth was an alien, having been born outside the United States. Congress "indulges" such people having at least one US citizen parent, with citizenship at birth under its power to "establish a uniform Rule of Naturalization." Therefore Cruz is a Naturalized Citizen, and ineligible to be POTUS.

    That indulgence is fairly new, and only since 1934 would someone situated as Cruz have any claim whatsoever to citizenship of the US. Until 1978, Congress could have revoked that citizenship if he had not taken up actual residence in the US within certain prescibed time limits.

    Congress could yet alter the law again, changing or removing entirely the concession to such foreign-born people, as it has done several times previously, e.g. between 1802-55.

    Such people obviously cannot be natural born citizens, who need no man-made law to make them citizens, any more than a 'natural' child needs a law to make him/her the biological child of his/her parents.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    SeanT said:

    taffys said:

    I wonder what price you could get on 'no referendum vote under Cameron'. You could see the calendar drifting endlessly as the situation in Europe disintegrates further in the summer and remain looks less and less likely.

    This time next year the back benchers start to seriously lose patience and Cameron will hold a leadership election in the summer, before he has to do what he can not do. Hold a referendum and lose.

    Fascinating. Quite plausible. Not likely, but plausible.

    Certainly more likely than Cameron deciding he's got a bad deal and campaigning for LEAVE

    What a charade this is. Same as the first referendum. Trouble for europhiles this time is that events are hostile.
    Under those circumstances Cameron would be toasted by his own side.

    And Remain would lose any future referendum.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052

    It's a fairly silly rule. There are many things which might make you not want to vote for Ted Cruz as president of the USA, but an accident of birth seems an odd reason to debar him completely, however the legal technicalities might operate.

    But it's their country, their constitution.

    One more example why a codified constitution has drawbacks.

    Yes indeed. Not making a judgement as to which way is best, but it's such a stupid thing to still be unclear and causing difficulty. The differences seem marginal, but if they feel it definitely should bar someone, they should make it much more explicit, and if they no no longer feel it matters, they should get around to changing it already. As it is, someone could claim not to care at all, but that that is what the law says so tough.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited 2016 21
    SeanT said:

    taffys said:

    I wonder what price you could get on 'no referendum vote under Cameron'. You could see the calendar drifting endlessly as the situation in Europe disintegrates further in the summer and remain looks less and less likely.

    This time next year the back benchers start to seriously lose patience and Cameron will hold a leadership election in the summer, before he has to do what he can not do. Hold a referendum and lose.

    Fascinating. Quite plausible. Not likely, but plausible.

    Certainly more likely than Cameron deciding he's got a bad deal and campaigning for LEAVE

    What a charade this is. Same as the first referendum. Trouble for europhiles this time is that events are hostile.
    Not so long ago you were all in favour of the EU, what has caused this Damascene conversion
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    watford30 said:

    BTW I notice on the previous thread one or two were shedding crocodile tears over the spy that Putin had killed, he was a Russian spy ffs, not a Salvation Army volunteer.

    You're not too bothered by foreign powers irradiating parts of London then? Or executing people here.
    Correct, I've far more important things to worry about.

    Like Lynton Crosby getting a knighthood?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,757
    Wanderer said:

    watford30 said:

    BTW I notice on the previous thread one or two were shedding crocodile tears over the spy that Putin had killed, he was a Russian spy ffs, not a Salvation Army volunteer.

    You're not too bothered by foreign powers irradiating parts of London then? Or executing people here.
    Correct, I've far more important things to worry about.

    Like Lynton Crosby getting a knighthood?
    I'm still so angry about Lynton getting a Knighthood.

    Should have been a Royal Dukedom
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    We got a "remain" advert through the door yesterday, basically a 4 page A3 colour broadsheet with "facts" about the EU and "myths" allegedly "debunked".

    Top of their list on the front page was that "3 million" jobs depend on our being in the EU. Also apparently all our trade is going to stop if we leave (I paraphrase, but not much)

    I didn't bother reading the rest before dutifully complying with the latest EU recycling diktat...

    Who is paying for this?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Mr. 63, bottom right of the back page had a certain Remain campaign, with Will Straw's name mentioned.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,418
    kle4 said:

    Must be natural born. That rules me out - I was delivered by C-section.

    Demon child!
    Actually, my date of conception must have been somewhere around 6-6-66!
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Under those circumstances Cameron would be toasted by his own side.

    True, but it will take at least a year for the back benchers to suss out Cameron will NEVER hold a referendum that has a real chance of a leave result. He'd rather give up.

    Those waiting for Cameron to hold a referendum could be like those waiting for George Osborne to balance the budget. And like those waiting for Godot.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Wanderer said:

    It would be a mistake to let it slip past June. The vote needs to be this year; September or October work as well as (if not better than) June. Next year, on the other hand, creates a load more hostages to fortune as well as giving Leave more time to organise.

    I think September is much more likely.
    To clarify, I should have said "It would be a mistake to let the negotiations slip past June"
    As a matter of interest, in what way do you think September / October work better than June?
    More focus for the campaign. A June vote would come off the back of a lot of elections in May, which will be a distraction for the Remainers (most of whom have a strong interest in them), while UKIP will prioritise the referendum and can probably run one off the back of the other anyway.

    There are, of course, risks both ways to delay, particularly re the migrant crisis but then there's a risk in going early as well if it does mean forcing the negotiations and distracting from a migrant solution.
    Thanks. Good point about the clash with May. I think June is unrealistic tbh but if "events" tend to favour Leave it would wise not to let too many accumulate.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Not so long ago you were all in favour of the EU, what has caused this Damascene conversion''

    I would argue that the authorities' reaction to Paris and Cologne has fundamentally changed the view of many to the EU. But of course I can;t speak for others.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Wanderer said:

    watford30 said:

    BTW I notice on the previous thread one or two were shedding crocodile tears over the spy that Putin had killed, he was a Russian spy ffs, not a Salvation Army volunteer.

    You're not too bothered by foreign powers irradiating parts of London then? Or executing people here.
    Correct, I've far more important things to worry about.

    Like Lynton Crosby getting a knighthood?
    Yes I've barely been able to sleep since
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    I doubt this article has had any impact on voting intentions in Iowa - far more likely that Branstad's attack on Cruz as big oil and anti-ethanol is what has shifted the needle, not anything coming from Trump. For those who did not see it, Branstad, the Governor of Iowa, appealed to vote for anyone but Cruz because of his position on ethanol.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Still, there's comfort for Labour. Say what you will about Jeremy Corbyn and Seamas Milne, but I can't see either of them spending £8K in order to unveil a stone engraved with platitudes in a Hastings car park.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,757
    SeanT said:

    Btw are there any other PB-ers who have changed their views on a fundamental issue during their time on the site? I reckon it's a good thing.

    I've also changed my mind on electoral reform. Thanks to PB. Used to be opposed. Now I support.

    Me.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 64,270
    LondonBob said:

    Scott_P said:

    @TelePolitics: David Cameron tells new Argentinian President: 'Absolutely clear' Falkland Islands want to remain British https://t.co/dJRVctM2kq

    On that principle what is Cameron's position on the Crimea (and Donbass and Kharkov and Odessa), or must we bow to the hangups of the loons on that issue?
    Don't think the Crimea etc want to be British
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Mr. 63, bottom right of the back page had a certain Remain campaign, with Will Straw's name mentioned.

    Thank you, but that doesn't answer my question
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,251
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Off-topic:

    Construction's started on a prototype Hyperloop.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35361093

    A waste of money IMO, but we shall see.

    Fancy a long term wager on that ;) ?
    My main concerns are the same as the articles: the cost - the figures in the initial report were rather optimistic IMO, and the throughput of people is woefully low.

    As for a bet: how about a trip on it if it goes into full passenger service? (Making your way there is not included). ;)
    What is the advantage over flying?
    None, really. Depending on your view, it's either designed to kill off the HSR scheme they've got going, or for use on Mars. I cannot see it really working where they've planned.

    For more info:
    http://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/hyperloop_alpha.pdf
    The timeline of 36 months to first passengers seems very ambitious to me. It'll take longer, but around 2040 there'll be a good few running at a profit. Whether we see one in this country any time in the next few decades is another matter, after the 2020s are dominated by HS2 delays, budgets being busted and overruns future Gov'ts may give it a miss even if it is shown to be the "correct" transport solution for us.
    I'd be surprised if it's "correct" for anywhere on Earth. Look at the engineering required and the maximum throughput of passengers.

    There are lots of engineering hurdles as well.

    Mind you, Musk's proved me wrong before with Tesla ...
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited 2016 21
    There was a report yesterday that a new WMUR poll in NH was going to confirm the Kasich bounce, but 'tain't so. He's languishing at a measly 6% in the latest CNN/WMUR poll, in joint fifth place.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,755

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Off-topic:

    Construction's started on a prototype Hyperloop.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35361093

    A waste of money IMO, but we shall see.

    Fancy a long term wager on that ;) ?
    My main concerns are the same as the articles: the cost - the figures in the initial report were rather optimistic IMO, and the throughput of people is woefully low.

    As for a bet: how about a trip on it if it goes into full passenger service? (Making your way there is not included). ;)
    What is the advantage over flying?
    None, really. Depending on your view, it's either designed to kill off the HSR scheme they've got going, or for use on Mars. I cannot see it really working where they've planned.

    For more info:
    http://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/hyperloop_alpha.pdf
    The timeline of 36 months to first passengers seems very ambitious to me. It'll take longer, but around 2040 there'll be a good few running at a profit. Whether we see one in this country any time in the next few decades is another matter, after the 2020s are dominated by HS2 delays, budgets being busted and overruns future Gov'ts may give it a miss even if it is shown to be the "correct" transport solution for us.
    I'd be surprised if it's "correct" for anywhere on Earth. Look at the engineering required and the maximum throughput of passengers.

    There are lots of engineering hurdles as well.

    Mind you, Musk's proved me wrong before with Tesla ...
    Zerohedge reckons Tesla is a FANTAsy stock.

    Early Feb next scheduled Spacex mission. Will it land, or won't it !
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    kle4 said:

    It's a fairly silly rule. There are many things which might make you not want to vote for Ted Cruz as president of the USA, but an accident of birth seems an odd reason to debar him completely, however the legal technicalities might operate.

    But it's their country, their constitution.

    One more example why a codified constitution has drawbacks.

    Yes indeed. Not making a judgement as to which way is best, but it's such a stupid thing to still be unclear and causing difficulty. The differences seem marginal, but if they feel it definitely should bar someone, they should make it much more explicit, and if they no no longer feel it matters, they should get around to changing it already. As it is, someone could claim not to care at all, but that that is what the law says so tough.
    In a fledgling nation born of war, and still under threat, they wanted undivided loyalty in the Chief Executive and Commander of the Army.

    Seems a not unreasonable aim. Even today...
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    LondonBob said:

    Scott_P said:

    @TelePolitics: David Cameron tells new Argentinian President: 'Absolutely clear' Falkland Islands want to remain British https://t.co/dJRVctM2kq

    On that principle what is Cameron's position on the Crimea (and Donbass and Kharkov and Odessa), or must we bow to the hangups of the loons on that issue?
    Don't think the Crimea etc want to be British
    Not sure about Kaliningrad, Karelia or Sakhalin, though.
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268
    SeanT said:

    Btw are there any other PB-ers who have changed their views on a fundamental issue during their time on the site? I reckon it's a good thing.

    I've also changed my mind on electoral reform. Thanks to PB. Used to be opposed. Now I support.

    SeanT said:

    Btw are there any other PB-ers who have changed their views on a fundamental issue during their time on the site? I reckon it's a good thing.

    I've also changed my mind on electoral reform. Thanks to PB. Used to be opposed. Now I support.

    I've changed my mind on EU several times. Every time I hear VoteLeave say something I support staying in and every time Britain Stronger in Europe say something I want to leave!!
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,400
    SeanT said:

    Btw are there any other PB-ers who have changed their views on a fundamental issue during their time on the site? I reckon it's a good thing.

    I've also changed my mind on electoral reform. Thanks to PB. Used to be opposed. Now I support.

    On balance, I've changed my mind on identity cards. Used to be implacably opposed. Now probably slightly on the side of support.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    I'm reading the Litvinenko report. I hadn't realised that this was the second attempt on Litvinenko's life - the first having taken place a couple of weeks earlier.....leaving a trail of radiation across London too:

    https://www.litvinenkoinquiry.org/files/Litvinenko-Inquiry-Report-web-version.pdf
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2016 21
    Football Leaks has released documents showing that Bale transfer was larger than Ronaldo and it was hushed up / fiddled so that Ronaldo didn't blow his fuse. Tittle tattle, but is more evidence that the people behind Football Leaks actually have quite a big cache of football legal documents and it is part of a wider release of what could turn into quite a big scandal. Doyen Sports is the name to watch.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,755

    There was a report yesterday that a new WMUR poll in NH was going to confirm the Kasich bounce, but 'tain't so. He's languishing at a measly 6% in the latest CNN/WMUR poll, in joint fifth place.

    He RCP averages out to 12.3.

    It's tremendously crowded, the 8-12% mark in New Hampshire.
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268

    We got a "remain" advert through the door yesterday, basically a 4 page A3 colour broadsheet with "facts" about the EU and "myths" allegedly "debunked".

    Top of their list on the front page was that "3 million" jobs depend on our being in the EU. Also apparently all our trade is going to stop if we leave (I paraphrase, but not much)

    I didn't bother reading the rest before dutifully complying with the latest EU recycling diktat...

    Who is paying for this?
    Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan!!
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,755

    We got a "remain" advert through the door yesterday, basically a 4 page A3 colour broadsheet with "facts" about the EU and "myths" allegedly "debunked".

    Top of their list on the front page was that "3 million" jobs depend on our being in the EU. Also apparently all our trade is going to stop if we leave (I paraphrase, but not much)

    I didn't bother reading the rest before dutifully complying with the latest EU recycling diktat...

    Who is paying for this?
    Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan!!
    What about Rothschilds, Rockefeller and the Lizard people ?
  • NorfolkTilIDieNorfolkTilIDie Posts: 1,268
    RodCrosby said:

    ergo, Cruz's Constitutional status at birth was an alien, having been born outside the United States. Congress "indulges" such people having at least one US citizen parent, with citizenship at birth under its power to "establish a uniform Rule of Naturalization." Therefore Cruz is a Naturalized Citizen, and ineligible to be POTUS.

    That indulgence is fairly new, and only since 1934 would someone situated as Cruz have any claim whatsoever to citizenship of the US. Until 1978, Congress could have revoked that citizenship if he had not taken up actual residence in the US within certain prescibed time limits.

    Congress could yet alter the law again, changing or removing entirely the concession to such foreign-born people, as it has done several times previously, e.g. between 1802-55.

    Such people obviously cannot be natural born citizens, who need no man-made law to make them citizens, any more than a 'natural' child needs a law to make him/her the biological child of his/her parents.

    Pretty sure the US constitution also a man made law...
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,302
    Last night's Lynton Crosby lecture via Philip Cowley on Twitter.

    https://twitter.com/philipjcowley/status/690188862543511553

  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820

    SeanT said:

    Btw are there any other PB-ers who have changed their views on a fundamental issue during their time on the site? I reckon it's a good thing.

    I've also changed my mind on electoral reform. Thanks to PB. Used to be opposed. Now I support.

    SeanT said:

    Btw are there any other PB-ers who have changed their views on a fundamental issue during their time on the site? I reckon it's a good thing.

    I've also changed my mind on electoral reform. Thanks to PB. Used to be opposed. Now I support.

    I've changed my mind on EU several times. Every time I hear VoteLeave say something I support staying in and every time Britain Stronger in Europe say something I want to leave!!
    I am firm in my resolve
    You are hard to reason with
    He, she, it is as stubborn as a mule.

    When the facts change, I change my opinion.
    You can be easily persuaded
    He, she, it is totally gullible.
  • GeoffMGeoffM Posts: 6,071

    Logical Song The last time I was there it was noticeable that Gibraltar is definitely attached to the Country of Spain..They share a border..

    I have crossed that very border four times today.
    Manual passport checks on the Gib side and electronic passport checking by the dagos.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    SeanT said:

    Btw are there any other PB-ers who have changed their views on a fundamental issue during their time on the site? I reckon it's a good thing.

    I've also changed my mind on electoral reform. Thanks to PB. Used to be opposed. Now I support.

    I used to think that no-one on PB changed their mind.

    But your post has shown me otherwise.

  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,302

    Football Leaks has released documents showing that Bale transfer was larger than Ronaldo and it was hushed up / fiddled so that Ronaldo didn't blow his fuse. Tittle tattle, but is more evidence that the people behind Football Leaks actually have quite a big cache of football legal documents and it is part of a wider release of what could turn into quite a big scandal. Doyen Sports is the name to watch.

    I see that another Barcelona player is having some local difficulty with income tax.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,755
    GeoffM said:

    Logical Song The last time I was there it was noticeable that Gibraltar is definitely attached to the Country of Spain..They share a border..

    I have crossed that very border four times today.
    Manual passport checks on the Gib side and electronic passport checking by the dagos.
    Always found it a bit odd that Gibraltar voted for the Lib Dems in the EU elections. I'd have expected it to be solidly Tory :D
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I think there's quite a few of us. I've gone from Labour Blairite to Tory member and Remain to Leave. Taken a while, but it happened.

    SeanT said:

    Btw are there any other PB-ers who have changed their views on a fundamental issue during their time on the site? I reckon it's a good thing.

    I've also changed my mind on electoral reform. Thanks to PB. Used to be opposed. Now I support.

    I used to think that no-one on PB changed their mind.

    But your post has shown me otherwise.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,757
    I really am a bad Muslim. All those games of chess I've played

    Saudi Arabia’s grand mufti has ruled that chess is forbidden in Islam, saying it encourages gambling and is a waste of time.

    Sheikh Abdulaziz al-Sheikh was answering a question on a television show in which he issues fatwas in response to viewers’ queries on everyday religious matters.

    He said chess was “included under gambling” and was “a waste of time and money and a cause for hatred and enmity between players”.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/21/chess-forbidden-in-islam-rules-saudi-arabia-grand-mufti
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Miss Vance, could be wrong, but I thought it was the third.

    Just a vague recollection of a news report. [I should stress I am not an operative in the Russian secret services].
  • RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737

    RodCrosby said:

    ergo, Cruz's Constitutional status at birth was an alien, having been born outside the United States. Congress "indulges" such people having at least one US citizen parent, with citizenship at birth under its power to "establish a uniform Rule of Naturalization." Therefore Cruz is a Naturalized Citizen, and ineligible to be POTUS.

    That indulgence is fairly new, and only since 1934 would someone situated as Cruz have any claim whatsoever to citizenship of the US. Until 1978, Congress could have revoked that citizenship if he had not taken up actual residence in the US within certain prescibed time limits.

    Congress could yet alter the law again, changing or removing entirely the concession to such foreign-born people, as it has done several times previously, e.g. between 1802-55.

    Such people obviously cannot be natural born citizens, who need no man-made law to make them citizens, any more than a 'natural' child needs a law to make him/her the biological child of his/her parents.

    Pretty sure the US constitution also a man made law...
    In the sense of being a fundamental, supreme, all-encompassing law, you'd be right.

    And even it doesn't presume to legislate what is a natural born citizen...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    SeanT said:

    Btw are there any other PB-ers who have changed their views on a fundamental issue during their time on the site? I reckon it's a good thing.

    I've also changed my mind on electoral reform. Thanks to PB. Used to be opposed. Now I support.

    I used to be for Remain _ I didn't think the benefits would outweighs the negatives of EU membership. But the endless drip of negatives, the contempt for any concerns about the system, have pushed me to leave regardless of uncertainty of what might lie beyond.
  • BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191

    SeanT said:

    Btw are there any other PB-ers who have changed their views on a fundamental issue during their time on the site? I reckon it's a good thing.

    I've also changed my mind on electoral reform. Thanks to PB. Used to be opposed. Now I support.

    SeanT said:

    Btw are there any other PB-ers who have changed their views on a fundamental issue during their time on the site? I reckon it's a good thing.

    I've also changed my mind on electoral reform. Thanks to PB. Used to be opposed. Now I support.

    I've changed my mind on EU several times. Every time I hear VoteLeave say something I support staying in and every time Britain Stronger in Europe say something I want to leave!!
    I used to not care about electoral reform and now I just wish it would go away.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584

    I really am a bad Muslim. All those games of chess I've played

    Saudi Arabia’s grand mufti has ruled that chess is forbidden in Islam, saying it encourages gambling and is a waste of time.

    Sheikh Abdulaziz al-Sheikh was answering a question on a television show in which he issues fatwas in response to viewers’ queries on everyday religious matters.

    He said chess was “included under gambling” and was “a waste of time and money and a cause for hatred and enmity between players”.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/21/chess-forbidden-in-islam-rules-saudi-arabia-grand-mufti

    Early Islam helped spread the game of chess, so I'm not sure he knows his history.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161
    Pulpstar said:

    There was a report yesterday that a new WMUR poll in NH was going to confirm the Kasich bounce, but 'tain't so. He's languishing at a measly 6% in the latest CNN/WMUR poll, in joint fifth place.

    He RCP averages out to 12.3.

    It's tremendously crowded, the 8-12% mark in New Hampshire.
    I think whichever establishment candidate does best in Iowa, particularly if they can get close to 20%, will pick up momentum into NH.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641

    I really am a bad Muslim. All those games of chess I've played

    Saudi Arabia’s grand mufti has ruled that chess is forbidden in Islam, saying it encourages gambling and is a waste of time.

    Sheikh Abdulaziz al-Sheikh was answering a question on a television show in which he issues fatwas in response to viewers’ queries on everyday religious matters.

    He said chess was “included under gambling” and was “a waste of time and money and a cause for hatred and enmity between players”.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/21/chess-forbidden-in-islam-rules-saudi-arabia-grand-mufti

    "Chess is like doing a crossword - a pointless way to pass the time until you die!" - Grand Mufti al-Clarkson

    :lol:

    (only kidding - I used to play chess for my school)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,755

    I really am a bad Muslim. All those games of chess I've played

    Saudi Arabia’s grand mufti has ruled that chess is forbidden in Islam, saying it encourages gambling and is a waste of time.

    Sheikh Abdulaziz al-Sheikh was answering a question on a television show in which he issues fatwas in response to viewers’ queries on everyday religious matters.

    He said chess was “included under gambling” and was “a waste of time and money and a cause for hatred and enmity between players”.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/21/chess-forbidden-in-islam-rules-saudi-arabia-grand-mufti

    Trump was sent by Allah to teach you a lesson on gambling :p
  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651

    I really am a bad Muslim. All those games of chess I've played

    Saudi Arabia’s grand mufti has ruled that chess is forbidden in Islam, saying it encourages gambling and is a waste of time.

    Sheikh Abdulaziz al-Sheikh was answering a question on a television show in which he issues fatwas in response to viewers’ queries on everyday religious matters.

    He said chess was “included under gambling” and was “a waste of time and money and a cause for hatred and enmity between players”.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/21/chess-forbidden-in-islam-rules-saudi-arabia-grand-mufti

    Think pb.com also "encourages gambling and is a waste of time".
    I doubt the grand mufti would approve. Guest editor thereof? You are a very bad man indeed.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,962

    Logical Song The last time I was there it was noticeable that Gibraltar is definitely attached to the Country of Spain..They share a border..

    Quite right, I've walked across the airstrip into Spain. Does anyone know what Corbyn's opinion is on Gibraltar and whether it differs from his opinion on the Falklands?

    UPDATE, no need Google is quicker:
    "His casual suggestion that he’d “give back the Malvinas and Gibraltar in the morning if I had the chance” proved unwise, as did his invitation for “man of peace” Vladimir Putin to visit London."
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-leadership-contest-what-the-party-would-look-like-with-jeremy-corbyn-as-leader-10456277.html

    So what about the Channel Islands?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641
    SeanT said:

    Btw are there any other PB-ers who have changed their views on a fundamental issue during their time on the site? I reckon it's a good thing.

    I've also changed my mind on electoral reform. Thanks to PB. Used to be opposed. Now I support.

    I used to be very pro-Europe and considered UKIP an irrelevant joke, as little as five, six years ago.

    Then I voted UKIP at the 2014 Euros, and have been pro-LEAVE ever since.
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    SeanT said:

    Btw are there any other PB-ers who have changed their views on a fundamental issue during their time on the site? I reckon it's a good thing.

    I've also changed my mind on electoral reform. Thanks to PB. Used to be opposed. Now I support.

    Electoral reform is tricky. The two most stable Government since the war - UK and US have a 'winner takes all' approach (at least that is the effect of a two-party system) . Some European countries give the leading party 'bonus seats' to try and reduce the likelihood of coalitions. The usual effect of coalitions is that the status-quo remains in place if they can stick together, or multiple elections if they can't. Italy has had more elections than a Japanese man on his honeymoon.

    Sometimes you have to compromise between 'fairness' and 'action'. Of course at the moment the left don't want PR and the right don't mind - since UKIP + Tories > 50%. In 2010 the left wanted PR and the right didn't - since LAB + LIB was > 50%.

    One cynic said that you'll never get a change in voting methodology - no one will ever vote for a change in the system that resulted in them getting to the top of the greasy pole/poll.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Off-topic:

    Construction's started on a prototype Hyperloop.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35361093

    A waste of money IMO, but we shall see.

    Fancy a long term wager on that ;) ?
    My main concerns are the same as the articles: the cost - the figures in the initial report were rather optimistic IMO, and the throughput of people is woefully low.

    As for a bet: how about a trip on it if it goes into full passenger service? (Making your way there is not included). ;)
    What is the advantage over flying?
    None, really. Depending on your view, it's either designed to kill off the HSR scheme they've got going, or for use on Mars. I cannot see it really working where they've planned.

    For more info:
    http://www.spacex.com/sites/spacex/files/hyperloop_alpha.pdf
    The timeline of 36 months to first passengers seems very ambitious to me. It'll take longer, but around 2040 there'll be a good few running at a profit. Whether we see one in this country any time in the next few decades is another matter, after the 2020s are dominated by HS2 delays, budgets being busted and overruns future Gov'ts may give it a miss even if it is shown to be the "correct" transport solution for us.
    Coventry Arena and Bermuda Park (near Nuneaton) opened this week.

    Oxford Parkway to Oxford won't open until December, however.
  • LondonBobLondonBob Posts: 467

    I'm reading the Litvinenko report. I hadn't realised that this was the second attempt on Litvinenko's life - the first having taken place a couple of weeks earlier.....leaving a trail of radiation across London too:

    https://www.litvinenkoinquiry.org/files/Litvinenko-Inquiry-Report-web-version.pdf

    First he was supposed to have been poisoned at Itsu by Scaramella. Then this was shifted to the hotel by Lugovoi. Problem was the radiation detected at Itsu and Litivinenko's accusation of being poisoned by Scaramella undermined that second story. Finally radiation was picked in places even before then in mid October. So now the implausible poisoning became multiple poisoning attempts with a substance highly unlikely to be used as a poison.

    Even if one accepts the radiation trail as presented, which I wouldn't, it lends itself far more likely to an accidental poisoning as a result of a leak.

    Polonium 210 is used as a nuclear trigger so the concerns as far as I am concerned is what is this substance doing being smuggled here and why are we opening ourselves up to incidents like this by allowing unsavoury characters like Boris Berezovsky to live here? He was a wanted criminal in Russia and should have been extradited there.

    Interestingly polonium was supposed to be traceable but the inquiry claimed in this case it wasn't, conveniently.
  • weejonnieweejonnie Posts: 3,820
    isam said:

    Ref EURef: we've just received a 4-page 'newspaper' from Britain in Europe through the post. Has anyone else had one of these?

    Yes! It seemed to be the same 6 scaremongering, Nick Clegg regurgitations 30 or 40 times over 4 pages
    Also the paper is too rough to be used in the lavatory - waste of recycling. Mind you they've done as well as they could be expected to do in marketing techniques considering the crappiness of the hand they've been dealt.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    SeanT said:

    Btw are there any other PB-ers who have changed their views on a fundamental issue during their time on the site? I reckon it's a good thing.

    I've also changed my mind on electoral reform. Thanks to PB. Used to be opposed. Now I support.

    Yes I was a Labour voter, quite pro immigration, possibly quite metropolitan liberal elite in 2008-9-10.. then studied politics, was introduced to Enoch and realised why we are in the mess we are
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641
    Pulpstar said:

    GeoffM said:

    Logical Song The last time I was there it was noticeable that Gibraltar is definitely attached to the Country of Spain..They share a border..

    I have crossed that very border four times today.
    Manual passport checks on the Gib side and electronic passport checking by the dagos.
    Always found it a bit odd that Gibraltar voted for the Lib Dems in the EU elections. I'd have expected it to be solidly Tory :D
    GibDems! :lol:
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161
    LondonBob said:

    I'm reading the Litvinenko report. I hadn't realised that this was the second attempt on Litvinenko's life - the first having taken place a couple of weeks earlier.....leaving a trail of radiation across London too:

    https://www.litvinenkoinquiry.org/files/Litvinenko-Inquiry-Report-web-version.pdf

    First he was supposed to have been poisoned at Itsu by Scaramella. Then this was shifted to the hotel by Lugovoi. Problem was the radiation detected at Itsu and Litivinenko's accusation of being poisoned by Scaramella undermined that second story. Finally radiation was picked in places even before then in mid October. So now the implausible poisoning became multiple poisoning attempts with a substance highly unlikely to be used as a poison.

    Even if one accepts the radiation trail as presented, which I wouldn't, it lends itself far more likely to an accidental poisoning as a result of a leak.

    Polonium 210 is used as a nuclear trigger so the concerns as far as I am concerned is what is this substance doing being smuggled here and why are we opening ourselves up to incidents like this by allowing unsavoury characters like Boris Berezovsky to live here? He was a wanted criminal in Russia and should have been extradited there.

    Interestingly polonium was supposed to be traceable but the inquiry claimed in this case it wasn't, conveniently.
    Ahhh. Is that the new Russian story?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,757
    LucyJones said:

    I really am a bad Muslim. All those games of chess I've played

    Saudi Arabia’s grand mufti has ruled that chess is forbidden in Islam, saying it encourages gambling and is a waste of time.

    Sheikh Abdulaziz al-Sheikh was answering a question on a television show in which he issues fatwas in response to viewers’ queries on everyday religious matters.

    He said chess was “included under gambling” and was “a waste of time and money and a cause for hatred and enmity between players”.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/21/chess-forbidden-in-islam-rules-saudi-arabia-grand-mufti

    Think pb.com also "encourages gambling and is a waste of time".
    I doubt the grand mufti would approve. Guest editor thereof? You are a very bad man indeed.
    Editing PB is awesome.

    Anyone pisses me off, I do a thread to wind/troll educate them on the error of their ways.

    Corporeal said it was like throwing the laxatives into the monkey house...
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    Miss Vance, could be wrong, but I thought it was the third.

    Just a vague recollection of a news report. [I should stress I am not an operative in the Russian secret services].

    Quite right! I'm still working through it but it appears the second attempt was bungled when Lugovoy spilled the Polonium in his hotel room....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    rcs1000 said:

    LondonBob said:

    I'm reading the Litvinenko report. I hadn't realised that this was the second attempt on Litvinenko's life - the first having taken place a couple of weeks earlier.....leaving a trail of radiation across London too:

    https://www.litvinenkoinquiry.org/files/Litvinenko-Inquiry-Report-web-version.pdf

    First he was supposed to have been poisoned at Itsu by Scaramella. Then this was shifted to the hotel by Lugovoi. Problem was the radiation detected at Itsu and Litivinenko's accusation of being poisoned by Scaramella undermined that second story. Finally radiation was picked in places even before then in mid October. So now the implausible poisoning became multiple poisoning attempts with a substance highly unlikely to be used as a poison.

    Even if one accepts the radiation trail as presented, which I wouldn't, it lends itself far more likely to an accidental poisoning as a result of a leak.

    Polonium 210 is used as a nuclear trigger so the concerns as far as I am concerned is what is this substance doing being smuggled here and why are we opening ourselves up to incidents like this by allowing unsavoury characters like Boris Berezovsky to live here? He was a wanted criminal in Russia and should have been extradited there.

    Interestingly polonium was supposed to be traceable but the inquiry claimed in this case it wasn't, conveniently.
    Ahhh. Is that the new Russian story?
    This was exactly the spin the Russian patsy was using the BBC earlier.
  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651
    SeanT said:

    Btw are there any other PB-ers who have changed their views on a fundamental issue during their time on the site? I reckon it's a good thing.

    I've also changed my mind on electoral reform. Thanks to PB. Used to be opposed. Now I support.

    Over the years, I have gone from Conservative-voting Europhile to Ukip-voting Eurosceptic. Can't remember exactly when I moved to "Leave" in my sentiments - maybe a decade or so ago. My dissertation was about European Monetary Union (this was back in 1990) and I think I thought then it would be a good thing. Pity I don't still have it, as I would be interested to re-read it. Unfortunately, my mother threw it out because she didn't think I would need it again and I only ever had a paper copy.

    I, too, have changed my mind about electoral reform. Now I support it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,755

    rcs1000 said:

    LondonBob said:

    I'm reading the Litvinenko report. I hadn't realised that this was the second attempt on Litvinenko's life - the first having taken place a couple of weeks earlier.....leaving a trail of radiation across London too:

    https://www.litvinenkoinquiry.org/files/Litvinenko-Inquiry-Report-web-version.pdf

    First he was supposed to have been poisoned at Itsu by Scaramella. Then this was shifted to the hotel by Lugovoi. Problem was the radiation detected at Itsu and Litivinenko's accusation of being poisoned by Scaramella undermined that second story. Finally radiation was picked in places even before then in mid October. So now the implausible poisoning became multiple poisoning attempts with a substance highly unlikely to be used as a poison.

    Even if one accepts the radiation trail as presented, which I wouldn't, it lends itself far more likely to an accidental poisoning as a result of a leak.

    Polonium 210 is used as a nuclear trigger so the concerns as far as I am concerned is what is this substance doing being smuggled here and why are we opening ourselves up to incidents like this by allowing unsavoury characters like Boris Berezovsky to live here? He was a wanted criminal in Russia and should have been extradited there.

    Interestingly polonium was supposed to be traceable but the inquiry claimed in this case it wasn't, conveniently.
    Ahhh. Is that the new Russian story?
    This was exactly the spin the Russian patsy was using the BBC earlier.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvDMlk3kSYg
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Hahahaha! I have to honour my PB parole conditions or else it could be such fun
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,164
    OT, but would like to garner the combined wisdom of PB for a hypothetical. Would the financial gains of abolishing gift aid be worth the political cost in a future budget?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Miss Jones, that's a bit rough (on your dissertation). One hopes you stuck the boot in.

    [Must admit I'm something of a hoarder. Probably still got the first story I ever typed on a computer, when I was about 5].
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited 2016 21
    LondonBob said:

    I'm reading the Litvinenko report. I hadn't realised that this was the second attempt on Litvinenko's life - the first having taken place a couple of weeks earlier.....leaving a trail of radiation across London too:

    https://www.litvinenkoinquiry.org/files/Litvinenko-Inquiry-Report-web-version.pdf

    First he was supposed to have been poisoned at Itsu by Scaramella. Then this was shifted to the hotel by Lugovoi. Problem was the radiation detected at Itsu and Litivinenko's accusation of being poisoned by Scaramella undermined that second story. Finally radiation was picked in places even before then in mid October. So now the implausible poisoning became multiple poisoning attempts with a substance highly unlikely to be used as a poison.

    Even if one accepts the radiation trail as presented, which I wouldn't, it lends itself far more likely to an accidental poisoning as a result of a leak.

    Polonium 210 is used as a nuclear trigger so the concerns as far as I am concerned is what is this substance doing being smuggled here and why are we opening ourselves up to incidents like this by allowing unsavoury characters like Boris Berezovsky to live here? He was a wanted criminal in Russia and should have been extradited there.

    Interestingly polonium was supposed to be traceable but the inquiry claimed in this case it wasn't, conveniently.
    Whatever, comrade.

    How's the weather in St Petersburg today?
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    edited 2016 21
    Got an alert, 2 new Iowa polls:

    KBUR (last one in October)

    Cruz 27 +12
    Trump 25 +5
    Carson 11 -17
    Rubio 9 -1
    Bush 7 -2
    Huckabee 4 +2
    Christie 4 +2
    Paul 3 +1
    Kasich 3 +1
    Fiorina 3 -1

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/docs/2016/IowaGOPCaucusPollJan2016.pdf

    Loras

    Trump 26 +3
    Cruz 25 -5
    Rubio 13 +2
    Carson 8 -3
    Bush 6 0
    Kasich 4 +3
    Paul 3 +1
    Huckabee 3 +1
    Christie 3 +3
    Fiorina 2 -1

    http://loras.edu/About-Loras/News-Events/News/2016/Trump-and-Cruz-Deadlocked,-with-Rubio-a-Distant-Th.aspx

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641
    weejonnie said:

    SeanT said:

    Btw are there any other PB-ers who have changed their views on a fundamental issue during their time on the site? I reckon it's a good thing.

    I've also changed my mind on electoral reform. Thanks to PB. Used to be opposed. Now I support.

    SeanT said:

    Btw are there any other PB-ers who have changed their views on a fundamental issue during their time on the site? I reckon it's a good thing.

    I've also changed my mind on electoral reform. Thanks to PB. Used to be opposed. Now I support.

    I've changed my mind on EU several times. Every time I hear VoteLeave say something I support staying in and every time Britain Stronger in Europe say something I want to leave!!
    I am firm in my resolve
    You are hard to reason with
    He, she, it is as stubborn as a mule.

    When the facts change, I change my opinion.
    You can be easily persuaded
    He, she, it is totally gullible.
    You can't change the world
    But you can change the facts
    When you change the facts
    You change points of view

    When you change points of view
    You may change a vote
    And when you change a vote
    You may change the world

    - Depeche Mode, "New Dress" (1986)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161

    rcs1000 said:

    LondonBob said:

    I'm reading the Litvinenko report. I hadn't realised that this was the second attempt on Litvinenko's life - the first having taken place a couple of weeks earlier.....leaving a trail of radiation across London too:

    https://www.litvinenkoinquiry.org/files/Litvinenko-Inquiry-Report-web-version.pdf

    First he was supposed to have been poisoned at Itsu by Scaramella. Then this was shifted to the hotel by Lugovoi. Problem was the radiation detected at Itsu and Litivinenko's accusation of being poisoned by Scaramella undermined that second story. Finally radiation was picked in places even before then in mid October. So now the implausible poisoning became multiple poisoning attempts with a substance highly unlikely to be used as a poison.

    Even if one accepts the radiation trail as presented, which I wouldn't, it lends itself far more likely to an accidental poisoning as a result of a leak.

    Polonium 210 is used as a nuclear trigger so the concerns as far as I am concerned is what is this substance doing being smuggled here and why are we opening ourselves up to incidents like this by allowing unsavoury characters like Boris Berezovsky to live here? He was a wanted criminal in Russia and should have been extradited there.

    Interestingly polonium was supposed to be traceable but the inquiry claimed in this case it wasn't, conveniently.
    Ahhh. Is that the new Russian story?
    This was exactly the spin the Russian patsy was using the BBC earlier.
    So now we can expect ЛондонBob and Lovinputin1983 to parrot it ad nauseum
  • LucyJonesLucyJones Posts: 651
    edited 2016 21

    Miss Jones, that's a bit rough (on your dissertation). One hopes you stuck the boot in.

    [Must admit I'm something of a hoarder. Probably still got the first story I ever typed on a computer, when I was about 5].

    I had a bookshelf full of books in my parents house up North, I was working down South. My mum was moving house, so I offered to go "home" to sort through my stuff. "Don't worry" said my mother, "I know what you'll want to keep, and what you will want to get rid of".
    Result? She binned all of my economics, history, politics and German language books, plus all of my essays. (Did a German and Economics degree). Kept half a dozen trashy airport novels. I was gutted when I realised what she had done, but it was too late to do anything by then.

    Edited to add: you must be a lot younger than I thought. I hadn't even seen a computer when I was 5. The ZX-81 came out when I was in secondary school, but you had to program that yourself.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,757
    edited 2016 21
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    LondonBob said:

    I'm reading the Litvinenko report. I hadn't realised that this was the second attempt on Litvinenko's life - the first having taken place a couple of weeks earlier.....leaving a trail of radiation across London too:

    https://www.litvinenkoinquiry.org/files/Litvinenko-Inquiry-Report-web-version.pdf

    First he was supposed to have been poisoned at Itsu by Scaramella. Then this was shifted to the hotel by Lugovoi. Problem was the radiation detected at Itsu and Litivinenko's accusation of being poisoned by Scaramella undermined that second story. Finally radiation was picked in places even before then in mid October. So now the implausible poisoning became multiple poisoning attempts with a substance highly unlikely to be used as a poison.

    Even if one accepts the radiation trail as presented, which I wouldn't, it lends itself far more likely to an accidental poisoning as a result of a leak.

    Polonium 210 is used as a nuclear trigger so the concerns as far as I am concerned is what is this substance doing being smuggled here and why are we opening ourselves up to incidents like this by allowing unsavoury characters like Boris Berezovsky to live here? He was a wanted criminal in Russia and should have been extradited there.

    Interestingly polonium was supposed to be traceable but the inquiry claimed in this case it wasn't, conveniently.
    Ahhh. Is that the new Russian story?
    This was exactly the spin the Russian patsy was using the BBC earlier.
    So now we can expect ЛондонBob and Lovinputin1983 to parrot it ad nauseum
    Can't you do your IP address check again.

    I loved it when you told me during the Papal election we had a visitor for the Vatican reading PB.
  • watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited 2016 21
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    LondonBob said:

    I'm reading the Litvinenko report. I hadn't realised that this was the second attempt on Litvinenko's life - the first having taken place a couple of weeks earlier.....leaving a trail of radiation across London too:

    https://www.litvinenkoinquiry.org/files/Litvinenko-Inquiry-Report-web-version.pdf

    First he was supposed to have been poisoned at Itsu by Scaramella. Then this was shifted to the hotel by Lugovoi. Problem was the radiation detected at Itsu and Litivinenko's accusation of being poisoned by Scaramella undermined that second story. Finally radiation was picked in places even before then in mid October. So now the implausible poisoning became multiple poisoning attempts with a substance highly unlikely to be used as a poison.

    Even if one accepts the radiation trail as presented, which I wouldn't, it lends itself far more likely to an accidental poisoning as a result of a leak.

    Polonium 210 is used as a nuclear trigger so the concerns as far as I am concerned is what is this substance doing being smuggled here and why are we opening ourselves up to incidents like this by allowing unsavoury characters like Boris Berezovsky to live here? He was a wanted criminal in Russia and should have been extradited there.

    Interestingly polonium was supposed to be traceable but the inquiry claimed in this case it wasn't, conveniently.
    Ahhh. Is that the new Russian story?
    This was exactly the spin the Russian patsy was using the BBC earlier.
    So now we can expect ЛондонBob and Lovinputin1983 to parrot it ad nauseum
    And I suspect they'll completely ignore the strange, child kissing incident mentioned in the report. Quite bizarre.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Miss Jones, double sympathy for you, given that.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,883
    edited 2016 21
    On checking Britain Elects, I see that there was a Panelbase poll yesterday, putting Leave ahead by 45% to 42%.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    LondonBob said:

    I'm reading the Litvinenko report. I hadn't realised that this was the second attempt on Litvinenko's life - the first having taken place a couple of weeks earlier.....leaving a trail of radiation across London too:

    https://www.litvinenkoinquiry.org/files/Litvinenko-Inquiry-Report-web-version.pdf

    He was a wanted criminal in Russia and should have been extradited there.
    So...we should extradite to Russia when Russia won't extradite to us.....?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @BBCNewsEnts: Forthcoming Jeremy Corbyn musical described as "James Bond meets the Kama Sutra". https://t.co/qXcaICVnFY https://t.co/Pn38uotx5x
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    LondonBob said:

    I'm reading the Litvinenko report. I hadn't realised that this was the second attempt on Litvinenko's life - the first having taken place a couple of weeks earlier.....leaving a trail of radiation across London too:

    https://www.litvinenkoinquiry.org/files/Litvinenko-Inquiry-Report-web-version.pdf

    Even if one accepts the radiation trail as presented, which I wouldn't, it lends itself far more likely to an accidental poisoning as a result of a leak.
    Funny sort of 'leak' that follows two Russians around London (via Hamburg) and the aircraft they flew on......
  • mattmatt Posts: 3,789

    LondonBob said:

    I'm reading the Litvinenko report. I hadn't realised that this was the second attempt on Litvinenko's life - the first having taken place a couple of weeks earlier.....leaving a trail of radiation across London too:

    https://www.litvinenkoinquiry.org/files/Litvinenko-Inquiry-Report-web-version.pdf

    He was a wanted criminal in Russia and should have been extradited there.
    So...we should extradite to Russia when Russia won't extradite to us.....?
    We will do that with jurisdictions where the extraditor has a passing interest in the rule of law and not just the law of the jungle.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,034
    LucyJones said:

    Miss Jones, that's a bit rough (on your dissertation). One hopes you stuck the boot in.

    [Must admit I'm something of a hoarder. Probably still got the first story I ever typed on a computer, when I was about 5].

    I had a bookshelf full of books in my parents house up North, I was working down South. My mum was moving house, so I offered to go "home" to sort through my stuff. "Don't worry" said my mother, "I know what you'll want to keep, and what you will want to get rid of".
    Result? She binned all of my economics, history, politics and German language books, plus all of my essays. (Did a German and Economics degree). Kept half a dozen trashy airport novels. I was gutted when I realised what she had done, but it was too late to do anything by then.

    Edited to add: you must be a lot younger than I thought. I hadn't even seen a computer when I was 5. The ZX-81 came out when I was in secondary school, but you had to program that yourself.
    You mean she kept what she'd like to keep? Always a risk. You have my sympathy. I finally got round to offloading some of my old economics text books but still have all my politics ones; they occasionally come in useful.
  • LondonBobLondonBob Posts: 467
    edited 2016 21

    LondonBob said:

    I'm reading the Litvinenko report. I hadn't realised that this was the second attempt on Litvinenko's life - the first having taken place a couple of weeks earlier.....leaving a trail of radiation across London too:

    https://www.litvinenkoinquiry.org/files/Litvinenko-Inquiry-Report-web-version.pdf

    He was a wanted criminal in Russia and should have been extradited there.
    So...we should extradite to Russia when Russia won't extradite to us.....?
    He was a Russian and Israeli citizen, why should we have granted him asylum in our country, especially when it damages our national interest and relations with important foreign states, especially given his proven criminality?
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Mortimer said:

    OT, but would like to garner the combined wisdom of PB for a hypothetical. Would the financial gains of abolishing gift aid be worth the political cost in a future budget?

    There was a hell of a backlash when the coalition proposed limiting the total which could be claimed:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9212292/Tax-free-charity-giving-threshold-set-to-be-lifted-to-appease-furious-philanthropists.html

    So, quite a high political cost, I expect.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    At any given moment, the opinions that I hold are opinions that I've always held.
  • david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 18,034
    weejonnie said:

    SeanT said:

    Btw are there any other PB-ers who have changed their views on a fundamental issue during their time on the site? I reckon it's a good thing.

    I've also changed my mind on electoral reform. Thanks to PB. Used to be opposed. Now I support.

    Electoral reform is tricky. The two most stable Government since the war - UK and US have a 'winner takes all' approach (at least that is the effect of a two-party system) . Some European countries give the leading party 'bonus seats' to try and reduce the likelihood of coalitions. The usual effect of coalitions is that the status-quo remains in place if they can stick together, or multiple elections if they can't. Italy has had more elections than a Japanese man on his honeymoon.

    Sometimes you have to compromise between 'fairness' and 'action'. Of course at the moment the left don't want PR and the right don't mind - since UKIP + Tories > 50%. In 2010 the left wanted PR and the right didn't - since LAB + LIB was > 50%.

    One cynic said that you'll never get a change in voting methodology - no one will ever vote for a change in the system that resulted in them getting to the top of the greasy pole/poll.
    Germany and Switzerland have had more stable governments than the US or UK (Switzerland's to the point of changes being measured by geologists). The political culture of a country is probably more important than the electoral system in terms of stability. Britain's gone through very stable and very unstable periods, all under FPTP.
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Scott_P said:

    @BBCNewsEnts: Forthcoming Jeremy Corbyn musical described as "James Bond meets the Kama Sutra". https://t.co/qXcaICVnFY https://t.co/Pn38uotx5x

    Sounds hideous, although how they have managed to stage a dozen new position on the back of a two stroke moped as it crosses the East German border does raise interesting issues.

    On the whole, I think I’ll give it a miss.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 44,251
    LondonBob said:

    LondonBob said:

    I'm reading the Litvinenko report. I hadn't realised that this was the second attempt on Litvinenko's life - the first having taken place a couple of weeks earlier.....leaving a trail of radiation across London too:

    https://www.litvinenkoinquiry.org/files/Litvinenko-Inquiry-Report-web-version.pdf

    He was a wanted criminal in Russia and should have been extradited there.
    So...we should extradite to Russia when Russia won't extradite to us.....?
    He was a Russian and Israeli citizen, why should we have granted him asylum in our country, especially when it damages our national interest and relations with important foreign states, especially given his proven criminality?
    Who is "we"?

    Russia?
  • Hertsmere_PubgoerHertsmere_Pubgoer Posts: 3,476

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    LondonBob said:

    I'm reading the Litvinenko report. I hadn't realised that this was the second attempt on Litvinenko's life - the first having taken place a couple of weeks earlier.....leaving a trail of radiation across London too:

    https://www.litvinenkoinquiry.org/files/Litvinenko-Inquiry-Report-web-version.pdf

    First he was supposed to have been poisoned at Itsu by Scaramella. Then this was shifted to the hotel by Lugovoi. Problem was the radiation detected at Itsu and Litivinenko's accusation of being poisoned by Scaramella undermined that second story. Finally radiation was picked in places even before then in mid October. So now the implausible poisoning became multiple poisoning attempts with a substance highly unlikely to be used as a poison.

    Even if one accepts the radiation trail as presented, which I wouldn't, it lends itself far more likely to an accidental poisoning as a result of a leak.

    Polonium 210 is used as a nuclear trigger so the concerns as far as I am concerned is what is this substance doing being smuggled here and why are we opening ourselves up to incidents like this by allowing unsavoury characters like Boris Berezovsky to live here? He was a wanted criminal in Russia and should have been extradited there.

    Interestingly polonium was supposed to be traceable but the inquiry claimed in this case it wasn't, conveniently.
    Ahhh. Is that the new Russian story?
    This was exactly the spin the Russian patsy was using the BBC earlier.
    So now we can expect ЛондонBob and Lovinputin1983 to parrot it ad nauseum
    Can't you do your IP address check again.

    I loved it when you told me during the Papal election we had a visitor for the Vatican reading PB.
    Might that have been a reader using TOR instead?

  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    dr_spyn said:

    Last night's Lynton Crosby lecture via Philip Cowley on Twitter.

    An excellent listen. Scathing on Ed and the whitewash report just released.
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    LucyJones said:

    Miss Jones, that's a bit rough (on your dissertation). One hopes you stuck the boot in.

    [Must admit I'm something of a hoarder. Probably still got the first story I ever typed on a computer, when I was about 5].

    I had a bookshelf full of books in my parents house up North, I was working down South. My mum was moving house, so I offered to go "home" to sort through my stuff. "Don't worry" said my mother, "I know what you'll want to keep, and what you will want to get rid of".
    Result? She binned all of my economics, history, politics and German language books, plus all of my essays. (Did a German and Economics degree). Kept half a dozen trashy airport novels. I was gutted when I realised what she had done, but it was too late to do anything by then.

    Edited to add: you must be a lot younger than I thought. I hadn't even seen a computer when I was 5. The ZX-81 came out when I was in secondary school, but you had to program that yourself.
    A sort of karma for not helping your Mum move I guess, especially since this involved some of your own stuff.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Hot off the press at @TheOnion: ‘Scientists Ask Congress To Fund $50 Billion Science Thing’ https://t.co/gJAPbsL7Oq https://t.co/Ff5U1lhzDz
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Nice Anecdote

    Putting the 'e' in Concorde: E for England & E for Ecosse. From #TonyBenn 1967 Diaries. https://t.co/VnhZUF3TgQ
  • MonikerDiCanioMonikerDiCanio Posts: 5,792

    LondonBob said:

    LondonBob said:

    I'm reading the Litvinenko report. I hadn't realised that this was the second attempt on Litvinenko's life - the first having taken place a couple of weeks earlier.....leaving a trail of radiation across London too:

    https://www.litvinenkoinquiry.org/files/Litvinenko-Inquiry-Report-web-version.pdf

    He was a wanted criminal in Russia and should have been extradited there.
    So...we should extradite to Russia when Russia won't extradite to us.....?
    He was a Russian and Israeli citizen, why should we have granted him asylum in our country, especially when it damages our national interest and relations with important foreign states, especially given his proven criminality?
    Who is "we"?

    Russia?
    What's the difference between Putin"s alleged orders and this;
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/07/david-cameron-justifies-drone-strikes-in-syria-against-britons-fighting-for-isis ?
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    Mortimer said:

    OT, but would like to garner the combined wisdom of PB for a hypothetical. Would the financial gains of abolishing gift aid be worth the political cost in a future budget?

    There was a hell of a backlash when the coalition proposed limiting the total which could be claimed:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9212292/Tax-free-charity-giving-threshold-set-to-be-lifted-to-appease-furious-philanthropists.html

    So, quite a high political cost, I expect.
    I suspect the political cost would be less if you could show that the charities in question were frequently a sham (if that is the case) where gift aid was above £x. Absent that, completely politically inviable.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    LondonBob said:

    LondonBob said:

    I'm reading the Litvinenko report. I hadn't realised that this was the second attempt on Litvinenko's life - the first having taken place a couple of weeks earlier.....leaving a trail of radiation across London too:

    https://www.litvinenkoinquiry.org/files/Litvinenko-Inquiry-Report-web-version.pdf

    He was a wanted criminal in Russia and should have been extradited there.
    So...we should extradite to Russia when Russia won't extradite to us.....?
    He was a Russian and Israeli citizen, why should we have granted him asylum in our country, especially when it damages our national interest and relations with important foreign states, especially given his proven criminality?
    Perhaps because of his legitimate fear of persecution and extrajudicial murder?

    Indeed it looks like his claim for asylum should have been treated as a nailed on cert.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    LondonBob said:

    LondonBob said:

    I'm reading the Litvinenko report. I hadn't realised that this was the second attempt on Litvinenko's life - the first having taken place a couple of weeks earlier.....leaving a trail of radiation across London too:

    https://www.litvinenkoinquiry.org/files/Litvinenko-Inquiry-Report-web-version.pdf

    He was a wanted criminal in Russia and should have been extradited there.
    So...we should extradite to Russia when Russia won't extradite to us.....?
    He was a Russian and Israeli citizen, why should we have granted him asylum in our country, especially when it damages our national interest and relations with important foreign states, especially given his proven criminality?
    No just murder him. What a nasty piece of work you are.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,739

    LondonBob said:

    LondonBob said:

    I'm reading the Litvinenko report. I hadn't realised that this was the second attempt on Litvinenko's life - the first having taken place a couple of weeks earlier.....leaving a trail of radiation across London too:

    https://www.litvinenkoinquiry.org/files/Litvinenko-Inquiry-Report-web-version.pdf

    He was a wanted criminal in Russia and should have been extradited there.
    So...we should extradite to Russia when Russia won't extradite to us.....?
    He was a Russian and Israeli citizen, why should we have granted him asylum in our country, especially when it damages our national interest and relations with important foreign states, especially given his proven criminality?
    Who is "we"?

    Russia?
    What's the difference between Putin"s alleged orders and this;
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/07/david-cameron-justifies-drone-strikes-in-syria-against-britons-fighting-for-isis ?
    If you can't tell the difference between a vocal political opponent and an armed jihadist intent on murdering their fellow citizens then there really is no hope for you.

    Perhaps you feel Cameron or Corbyn would be justified in having some of their disgruntled back benchers murdered on the quiet because that would be a far more accurate comparison.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    LondonBob said:

    LondonBob said:

    I'm reading the Litvinenko report. I hadn't realised that this was the second attempt on Litvinenko's life - the first having taken place a couple of weeks earlier.....leaving a trail of radiation across London too:

    https://www.litvinenkoinquiry.org/files/Litvinenko-Inquiry-Report-web-version.pdf

    He was a wanted criminal in Russia and should have been extradited there.
    So...we should extradite to Russia when Russia won't extradite to us.....?
    He was a Russian and Israeli citizen, why should we have granted him asylum in our country, especially when it damages our national interest and relations with important foreign states, especially given his proven criminality?
    Who is "we"?

    Russia?
    What's the difference between Putin"s alleged orders and this;
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/07/david-cameron-justifies-drone-strikes-in-syria-against-britons-fighting-for-isis ?
    Well for one, Cam is man enough to fess up that we did it.
  • MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Miss Plato, the UKIP wet dream scenario is now actually a plausible possibility.

    UK votes to Remain.

    EU alters rules so we get a quota of X migrants or suffer financial and other penalties.

    Cameron gets replaced by someone rubbish enough to beat Corbyn but not compelling enough to keep voters from going for a populist purple vote.

    I thought something similar the other day. Close vote to remain then a Europhile Tory leader is elected who refuses to even consider another referendum for several decades. UKIP becomes the only Eurosceptic party.
This discussion has been closed.