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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    RodCrosby said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:



    Those conservatives will still happily vote for Trump against Hillary or Sanders, the ones who might vote for Bloomberg are relatively wealthy, fiscally conservative and relaxed about immigration, probably employing a few immigrants themselves

    FWIW, my OC Mother-in-law (solid GOP, backed Santorum last time round) is seriously considering voting for Hillary (or abstaining) in a Clinton vs Trump competition. This is despite the fact that she despises the Clintons. Anecdote, of course, but perhaps indicative on how people will actually vote in the ballot box when it's not a generic question (as it largely is at this stage)
    It'll be a fascinating choice, down to who you believe is the most mentally unbalanced and pathologically amoral candidate on the ballot in November.

    Since Trump only has B+ grades in those subjects, the choice seems clear...
    Clinton will be a bad President, but won't fundamentally damage the country.

    Trump could make it a laughing stock.

    The choice is clear. Albeit with a heavy heart.
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    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Interesting fact: I have just noticed that Obama and Biden are both wearing European-style ties, not American-style.

    (European: the stripes go top-right to bottom-left;
    American: the stripes go top-left to bottom-right)
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    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    In the previous thread, somebody warned us not to fall into the trap of thinking that the American voters will regard Trump with disdain and ridicule in the way that Europeans do.

    Without needing to think of Trump as being merely ridiculous (although he indeed is), I have for months been of the opinion that he can't win the presidential election, for one reason alone (in addition to all the other reasons), which is this graph:

    http://www.redstate.com/uploads/2015/08/TrumpHispanics-620x519.jpg
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    JohnLoony said:

    AndyJS said:

    Just watched Derren Brown manipulate 3 out of 4 people to seemingly push someone off the top of a building on his latest TV show.

    It is worth bearing in mind that it is not 3 out of 4 people in the general population, but 3 out of 4 people from a selected-and-filtered sub-sample of gullible and suggestible people. If I had applied, I would have been selected out at the first stage because (I'm fairly sure that) I would have been oblivious to the standing-up-and-sitting-down whenever-the-ping-goes task.

    I was amazed that so many people copied the three actors by standing up and sitting down every time the bell sounded.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited January 2016
    JohnLoony said:

    In the previous thread, somebody warned us not to fall into the trap of thinking that the American voters will regard Trump with disdain and ridicule in the way that Europeans do.

    Without needing to think of Trump as being merely ridiculous (although he indeed is), I have for months been of the opinion that he can't win the presidential election, for one reason alone (in addition to all the other reasons), which is this graph:

    http://www.redstate.com/uploads/2015/08/TrumpHispanics-620x519.jpg

    Didn't Romney also do very badly with Hispanics? He was still able to poll 47% and 48% is enough to win sometimes, such as in the year 2000 for instance.
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    edited January 2016
    Charles said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:



    Those conservatives will still happily vote for Trump against Hillary or Sanders, the ones who might vote for Bloomberg are relatively wealthy, fiscally conservative and relaxed about immigration, probably employing a few immigrants themselves

    FWIW, my OC Mother-in-law (solid GOP, backed Santorum last time round) is seriously considering voting for Hillary (or abstaining) in a Clinton vs Trump competition. This is despite the fact that she despises the Clintons. Anecdote, of course, but perhaps indicative on how people will actually vote in the ballot box when it's not a generic question (as it largely is at this stage)
    It'll be a fascinating choice, down to who you believe is the most mentally unbalanced and pathologically amoral candidate on the ballot in November.

    Since Trump only has B+ grades in those subjects, the choice seems clear...
    Trump could make it a laughing stock.
    That's fine. Have you forgotten they've been there before - Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush (I), Clinton (I), Bush(II) ?

    Trump may be a joke, but Clinton(II) is truly terrifying...
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,129
    edited January 2016
    PAW said:

    Though I have to say, when I visited someone in the Royal Bournemouth early in the morning, the ward girls actually changing nappies looked ill with fatigue...

    Do they still have two-three nurses who spend all day bullying (it's BEST for baby!) the mothers of newborns into breastfeeding instead of bottle? If so, tell them to stop nagging shellshocked women and go do some nappychanging instead. New mothers have already got enough things to cope with.
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Boring campaign speech posing as a State of the Union.
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    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    ectoplasm
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    Gaz said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PAW said:

    It is often said that generic drugs don't match the performance of the original because of differences in the binder or formulation of the capsule. Is there any truth in any of these assertions?

    No
    File it along with the oik in PCWorld telling you the £75 hdmi cable will give you a better picture.
    Incredible that Monster have made a business out of that.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited January 2016
    MTimT said:

    Boring campaign speech posing as a State of the Union.

    Agreed. He started by mocking Republicans and ends by asking for civility. Classic Obama divisiveness.

    Thought Nikki Haley hit it out of the park

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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    JohnLoony said:

    In the previous thread, somebody warned us not to fall into the trap of thinking that the American voters will regard Trump with disdain and ridicule in the way that Europeans do.

    Without needing to think of Trump as being merely ridiculous (although he indeed is), I have for months been of the opinion that he can't win the presidential election, for one reason alone (in addition to all the other reasons), which is this graph:

    http://www.redstate.com/uploads/2015/08/TrumpHispanics-620x519.jpg

    He doesn't do well among blacks or women either.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Ted Cruz weighs in "tonight's address was less a State of The Union, more a state of denial".

    Pretty much sums it up.
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    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Only about 5% of the comments in this thread are about Corbyn or Trident. Shows how relevant he / it is.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    JohnLoony said:

    Only about 5% of the comments in this thread are about Corbyn or Trident. Shows how relevant he / it is.

    You bothered to count? You need to get out more :)
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    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Happy 110th Birthday to Zhou Yougang, the inventor of the Pinyin romanisation system

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhou_Youguang
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    JohnLoony said:

    Happy 110th Birthday to Zhou Yougang, the inventor of the Pinyin romanisation system

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhou_Youguang

    I bet he won't get 5% of the comments!
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Whether it's Cologne sex assaults or Mein Kampf, Germany still doesn't trust its people

    The furore over the republication of Hitler's venomous ideas shows that this is still a country whose leaders aren't comfortable with the truth"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12095001/Whether-its-Cologne-sex-assaults-or-Mein-Kampf-Germany-still-doesnt-trust-its-people.html
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    JohnLoony said:

    Happy 110th Birthday to Zhou Yougang, the inventor of the Pinyin romanisation system

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhou_Youguang

    Where is he in the list of oldest living people?
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    PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    rcs1000 said:

    john_zims said:

    @PClipp
    'The Labour Government under Jim Callaghan, was one of the best this country has known. The only policies they could implement - during the Lib-Lab pact - were Labour policies that were approved by the Liberals. Most of the time, they just governed quietly, without too much change.'

    You do spout some rubbish, were you actually around at that time or just trying to rewrite history?
    Massive inflation, endless strikes including the winter of discontent & Denis Healey forced to go to the IMF with a begging bowl.

    Point of order sir: didn't most of those things happen after the ending of the LibLab pact?
    Or before the Lib Lab pact came into effect. Indeed, I was around and remember it well. In the period of the Lib-Lab Pact, things just ticked over quietly, with no surprises - until the Labour Left forgot they had lost their majority.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,911
    JohnLoony said:

    Only about 5% of the comments in this thread are about Corbyn or Trident. Shows how relevant he / it is.

    Does this post containing the words Trident and Corbyn count?
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,175

    watford30 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Most of the junior doctors on TV look awfully young. Barely old enough to have gone to university never mind left it and actually become doctors. If one of them came near me I'd be worrying about them - whether they were wearing a vest, eating properly and so forth.

    I am sure policemen are getting younger too!

    Mr Hunt is showing his dedication to reducing unnessecary cardiac deaths here:

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/more-heart-patients-die-as-hunt-gives-999-dispatchers-longer-to-send-ambulance-a3154171.html

    Not enough ambulances? Well slow down the response times for heart attacks. Simples! Though I am sure it must somehow be the BMAs fault. Or the EU.
    Hunt could never in a million years be as bad as Burnham and Labour. Remember Mid Staffs? Dying elderly people forced to drink water from flower vases. There's the benchmark for failing healthcare.
    47 excess deaths in 3 months is a faster rate than Stafford. Read the article.
    As ever, Mr Fox, you are missing the point about Stafford.

    The mistreatment of patients was a scandal. It was compounded by a cover-up that allowed it to continue, including terrible treatment of locals who tried to blow the whistle.

    It was further compounded by the government's actions, including Burnham's. Your inability to repeatedly admit what went on at Stafford (despite having apparent;y read the report - which one?) makes me rather take your views on this strike with a large pinch of salt.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,175
    Pakistani militant @ssh@ts are bombing polio centres now ...

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-35299597
    :(
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    It doesn't matter who leads Labour now. The overwhelming majority of Englishmen and Englishwomen (outside London, of course) know now that Labour's members hold a set of values profoundly inimical to their own. That will become the dominant political fact over the next decade or so, as England becomes, in effect, a one-Party state.

    I expect one of the candidates in the next Tory leadership election to call for the Labour Party's membership to be criminalised.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,800
    AndyJS said:

    "Whether it's Cologne sex assaults or Mein Kampf, Germany still doesn't trust its people

    The furore over the republication of Hitler's venomous ideas shows that this is still a country whose leaders aren't comfortable with the truth"


    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12095001/Whether-its-Cologne-sex-assaults-or-Mein-Kampf-Germany-still-doesnt-trust-its-people.html

    Germany's leaders really need to relax.

    The war ended over 70 years ago, and there's no other nation I can think of that has atoned so consistently and comprehensively for its sins.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    watford30 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Most of the junior doctors on TV look awfully young. Barely old enough to have gone to university never mind left it and actually become doctors. If one of them came near me I'd be worrying about them - whether they were wearing a vest, eating properly and so forth.

    I am sure policemen are getting younger too!

    Mr Hunt is showing his dedication to reducing unnessecary cardiac deaths here:

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/more-heart-patients-die-as-hunt-gives-999-dispatchers-longer-to-send-ambulance-a3154171.html

    Not enough ambulances? Well slow down the response times for heart attacks. Simples! Though I am sure it must somehow be the BMAs fault. Or the EU.
    Hunt could never in a million years be as bad as Burnham and Labour. Remember Mid Staffs? Dying elderly people forced to drink water from flower vases. There's the benchmark for failing healthcare.
    47 excess deaths in 3 months is a faster rate than Stafford. Read the article.
    As ever, Mr Fox, you are missing the point about Stafford.

    The mistreatment of patients was a scandal. It was compounded by a cover-up that allowed it to continue, including terrible treatment of locals who tried to blow the whistle.

    It was further compounded by the government's actions, including Burnham's. Your inability to repeatedly admit what went on at Stafford (despite having apparent;y read the report - which one?) makes me rather take your views on this strike with a large pinch of salt.
    I have not defended what went on at Stafford. What I have disputed is your personalisation of the issue to Andy Burnham. The problems at Stafford were over a long period of time and particularly were brought about by the Milburn reforms, followed by Reid, Hewitt and Johnson.

    To try to personalise it to Andy Burnham misses both the point and the nessecary lessons. One of these lessons is that top down management to meet financial targets at the expense of patient care creats a bad hospital culture.

  • Options
    JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,018

    watford30 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Most of the junior doctors on TV look awfully young. Barely old enough to have gone to university never mind left it and actually become doctors. If one of them came near me I'd be worrying about them - whether they were wearing a vest, eating properly and so forth.

    I am sure policemen are getting younger too!

    Mr Hunt is showing his dedication to reducing unnessecary cardiac deaths here:

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/more-heart-patients-die-as-hunt-gives-999-dispatchers-longer-to-send-ambulance-a3154171.html

    Not enough ambulances? Well slow down the response times for heart attacks. Simples! Though I am sure it must somehow be the BMAs fault. Or the EU.
    Hunt could never in a million years be as bad as Burnham and Labour. Remember Mid Staffs? Dying elderly people forced to drink water from flower vases. There's the benchmark for failing healthcare.
    47 excess deaths in 3 months is a faster rate than Stafford. Read the article.
    As ever, Mr Fox, you are missing the point about Stafford.

    The mistreatment of patients was a scandal. It was compounded by a cover-up that allowed it to continue, including terrible treatment of locals who tried to blow the whistle.

    It was further compounded by the government's actions, including Burnham's. Your inability to repeatedly admit what went on at Stafford (despite having apparent;y read the report - which one?) makes me rather take your views on this strike with a large pinch of salt.
    I have not defended what went on at Stafford. What I have disputed is your personalisation of the issue to Andy Burnham. The problems at Stafford were over a long period of time and particularly were brought about by the Milburn reforms, followed by Reid, Hewitt and Johnson.

    To try to personalise it to Andy Burnham misses both the point and the nessecary lessons. One of these lessons is that top down management to meet financial targets at the expense of patient care creats a bad hospital culture.

    Burnham appears to believe that we should still not know about Stafford.
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    watford30 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Most of the junior doctors on TV look awfully young. Barely old enough to have gone to university never mind left it and actually become doctors. If one of them came near me I'd be worrying about them - whether they were wearing a vest, eating properly and so forth.

    I am sure policemen are getting younger too!

    Mr Hunt is showing his dedication to reducing unnessecary cardiac deaths here:

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/more-heart-patients-die-as-hunt-gives-999-dispatchers-longer-to-send-ambulance-a3154171.html

    Not enough ambulances? Well slow down the response times for heart attacks. Simples! Though I am sure it must somehow be the BMAs fault. Or the EU.
    Hunt could never in a million years be as bad as Burnham and Labour. Remember Mid Staffs? Dying elderly people forced to drink water from flower vases. There's the benchmark for failing healthcare.
    47 excess deaths in 3 months is a faster rate than Stafford. Read the article.
    As ever, Mr Fox, you are missing the point about Stafford.

    The mistreatment of patients was a scandal. It was compounded by a cover-up that allowed it to continue, including terrible treatment of locals who tried to blow the whistle.

    It was further compounded by the government's actions, including Burnham's. Your inability to repeatedly admit what went on at Stafford (despite having apparent;y read the report - which one?) makes me rather take your views on this strike with a large pinch of salt.
    I have not defended what went on at Stafford. What I have disputed is your personalisation of the issue to Andy Burnham. The problems at Stafford were over a long period of time and particularly were brought about by the Milburn reforms, followed by Reid, Hewitt and Johnson.

    To try to personalise it to Andy Burnham misses both the point and the nessecary lessons. One of these lessons is that top down management to meet financial targets at the expense of patient care creats a bad hospital culture.

    Burnham appears to believe that we should still not know about Stafford.
    Andy Burnham commissioned the Francis inquiry into Mid Staffs.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    watford30 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Most of the junior doctors on TV look awfully young. Barely old enough to have gone to university never mind left it and actually become doctors. If one of them came near me I'd be worrying about them - whether they were wearing a vest, eating properly and so forth.

    I am sure policemen are getting younger too!

    Mr Hunt is showing his dedication to reducing unnessecary cardiac deaths here:

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/more-heart-patients-die-as-hunt-gives-999-dispatchers-longer-to-send-ambulance-a3154171.html

    Not enough ambulances? Well slow down the response times for heart attacks. Simples! Though I am sure it must somehow be the BMAs fault. Or the EU.
    Hunt could never in a million years be as bad as Burnham and Labour. Remember Mid Staffs? Dying elderly people forced to drink water from flower vases. There's the benchmark for failing healthcare.
    47 excess deaths in 3 months is a faster rate than Stafford. Read the article.
    As ever, Mr Fox, you are missing the point about Stafford.

    I have not defended what went on at Stafford. What I have disputed is your personalisation of the issue to Andy Burnham. The problems at Stafford were over a long period of time and particularly were brought about by the Milburn reforms, followed by Reid, Hewitt and Johnson.

    To try to personalise it to Andy Burnham misses both the point and the nessecary lessons. One of these lessons is that top down management to meet financial targets at the expense of patient care creats a bad hospital culture.

    Burnham appears to believe that we should still not know about Stafford.
    Considering one of Burnham's first actions as minister was to commission a public enquiry, I think that is incorrect.

    Alan Johnson seems to have dodged the blame well, as has Patricia Hewitt who were in charge at the peak of the problems, but lets shoot the messenger.

    I have said enough on this in the past, including pointing out that there are a number of hospitals with worse excess mortality than Stafford in the period in question. Several of these are in the midlands, so I hear whispers of what is going on.

    My own hospital now has excellent senior management and better than average mortality (SHIMI) figures for the country.

    Getting back to the strike, this is a particularly well balanced review of the issues from the Economist:

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2016/01/testing-their-patients?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/blamebritishpublicforjuniordoctorsstrike



  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,175

    I have not defended what went on at Stafford. What I have disputed is your personalisation of the issue to Andy Burnham. The problems at Stafford were over a long period of time and particularly were brought about by the Milburn reforms, followed by Reid, Hewitt and Johnson.

    To try to personalise it to Andy Burnham misses both the point and the nessecary lessons. One of these lessons is that top down management to meet financial targets at the expense of patient care creats a bad hospital culture.

    No, you have gone much further than that. For one thing, you have repeatedly ignored the fact Burnham was in the Health dept for part of the period, and you have claimed it was fine because he instituted the inquiry (when in reality he set up the first, bogus internal inquiry, which even the chair (Francis) said had had insufficient scope). I believe that limited-scope, private inquiry was an attempt at a cover-up. You seem to disagree, in which case do you think it was mere incompetence on Burnham's part?.

    And remember, Burnham was - and is - against the second public inquiry, which finally got to near the truth, and wishes it had not been published. This is important as the second inquiry came up with many more findings ('lessons') than Burnham's first, limited, inquiry.

    Those lessons - which you think are so important - would never be known to be learnt if Burnham had had his way. As someone in favour of patient safety and learning lessons, I thought you would be as angry with Burnham as I am.

    Also, you are reducing the 'lessons' to ones that meet your current political aims. The lessons in the second Francis report are much wider than that. So you can re-read it and learn the 'lessons' again, here's a link:

    http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20150407084003/http://www.midstaffspublicinquiry.com/report

    So my 'personalisation' of it towards Burnham very relevant. I'm interested as to why you repeatedly deny the above facts. As I said, it does not bode well for your comments about the current strike.

    Oh, and I had a family member mistreated at Stafford (fortunately in a minor way, and not with long-term consequences). So it is personal to me, as it it to many people with family and friends in the Stafford area.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,175

    Considering one of Burnham's first actions as minister was to commission a public enquiry, I think that is incorrect.

    Alan Johnson seems to have dodged the blame well, as has Patricia Hewitt who were in charge at the peak of the problems, but lets shoot the messenger.

    I have said enough on this in the past, including pointing out that there are a number of hospitals with worse excess mortality than Stafford in the period in question. Several of these are in the midlands, so I hear whispers of what is going on.

    My own hospital now has excellent senior management and better than average mortality (SHIMI) figures for the country.

    Getting back to the strike, this is a particularly well balanced review of the issues from the Economist:

    http://www.economist.com/blogs/bagehot/2016/01/testing-their-patients?fsrc=scn/tw/te/bl/ed/blamebritishpublicforjuniordoctorsstrike

    "Considering one of Burnham's first actions as minister was to commission a public enquiry, I think that is incorrect."

    No, he did not. As it's been pointed out to you many times before, I suppose you're lying.

    There were two Francis inquiries. The first was set up by Burnham, was not public, and was criticised by its chair, Francis, for its limited scope. The coalition set up the wider public inquiry that got to the truth and made many more recommendation.

    Think about this: Burnham's inquiry made 18 recommendations. The second, public Francis inquiry made 290.

    You may want to ask why Burnham limited the scope of 'his' inquiry, and why he thinks the public inquiry should not have been published. In other words, why those lessons should not have been learnt.

    As for the rest: the problems at Stafford went well past clinical and monetary. An example is the way whistleblowers were treated, as well as family members who had the temerity to try to say something was going wrong. That's why the Stafford scandal was so much bigger - and more important to get to the truth - than the other sad cases.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    JohnLoony said:

    Only about 5% of the comments in this thread are about Corbyn or Trident. Shows how relevant he / it is.

    I think the header is right though. Trident may be very relevant to Corbyn's survival.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,175

    watford30 said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Most of the junior doctors on TV look awfully young. Barely old enough to have gone to university never mind left it and actually become doctors. If one of them came near me I'd be worrying about them - whether they were wearing a vest, eating properly and so forth.

    I am sure policemen are getting younger too!

    Mr Hunt is showing his dedication to reducing unnessecary cardiac deaths here:

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/health/more-heart-patients-die-as-hunt-gives-999-dispatchers-longer-to-send-ambulance-a3154171.html

    Not enough ambulances? Well slow down the response times for heart attacks. Simples! Though I am sure it must somehow be the BMAs fault. Or the EU.
    Hunt could never in a million years be as bad as Burnham and Labour. Remember Mid Staffs? Dying elderly people forced to drink water from flower vases. There's the benchmark for failing healthcare.
    47 excess deaths in 3 months is a faster rate than Stafford. Read the article.
    As ever, Mr Fox, you are missing the point about Stafford.

    The mistreatment of patients was a scandal. It was compounded by a cover-up that allowed it to continue, including terrible treatment of locals who tried to blow the whistle.

    It was further compounded by the government's actions, including Burnham's. Your inability to repeatedly admit what went on at Stafford (despite having apparent;y read the report - which one?) makes me rather take your views on this strike with a large pinch of salt.
    I have not defended what went on at Stafford. What I have disputed is your personalisation of the issue to Andy Burnham. The problems at Stafford were over a long period of time and particularly were brought about by the Milburn reforms, followed by Reid, Hewitt and Johnson.

    To try to personalise it to Andy Burnham misses both the point and the nessecary lessons. One of these lessons is that top down management to meet financial targets at the expense of patient care creats a bad hospital culture.

    Burnham appears to believe that we should still not know about Stafford.
    Andy Burnham commissioned the Francis inquiry into Mid Staffs.
    If you read my other posts, you can see that's disingenuous. He commissioned the first Francis inquiry, which was not public, and whose remit Francis himself criticised.

    The second Francis inquiry, the public one, was commissioned by the coalition.
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited January 2016
    Stafford had one positive result. Not long after, I went to visit a terminally ill friend(in the SE of England) and the nursing staff were brilliant. All patients had to be seen every so often and the buzzers were answered pdq.

    Frankly Stafford is not relevant to the Doctors strike, only in as much as it shows how little the Hippocratic oath means (if indeed they still take it).. patents have suffered as a result of their operations/procedures being cancelled. This strike seems to be about money pure and simple.. As for the hours they work, they don't know they were born, fewer hours seems to me equals less well trained Doctors and with less experience... so the quid pro quo is that the advancement ladder should therefore take longer to climb....
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    This doesn't surprise me one bit
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35299930
    US apologises for Iran naval incursion- Revolutionary Guards

    Part of Obama's craven Iranian policy.
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474

    Stafford had one positive result. Not long after, I went to visit a terminally ill friend(in the SE of England) and the nursing staff were brilliant. All patients had to be seen every so often and the buzzers were answered pdq.

    Frankly Stafford is not relevant to the Doctors strike, only in as much as it shows how little the Hippocratic oath means (if indeed they still take it).. patents have suffered as a result of their operations/procedures being cancelled. This strike seems to be about money pure and simple.. As for the hours they work, they don't know they were born, fewer hours seems to me equals less well trained Doctors and with less experience... so the quid pro quo is that the advancement ladder should therefore take longer to climb....

    Longer to qualify? They'll go on strike again.

    Still, it's fascinating to see so called 'medical professionals' regurgitating the Stafford reports to justify what happened there. Anyone with any sense of basic human decency wouldn't waste their time doing so.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013
    HYUFD said:

    Gaius said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gaius said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gaius said:

    Sean_F said:

    So what lies behind the sudden swing to Sanders?

    The american version of Corbynism?

    Corbyn won because he was athentic and the other three didn't do anything.

    Hillary, unlike her husband is a shit politician and has been connected to numerous scandals.

    Sanders is benefitting from the devotion of the faithful just like Corbyn did.


    Trump is going to be the next president.

    (Expect Cruz to be the next VP or AG, I imagine this has already been worked out).

    Sanders is presently leading Trump in the polls
    Expect this to change.

    Trump hasn't gone after Sanders yet.

    Sanders hasn't gone after Trump either. Though I think Bloomberg would run anyway if that was the choice and would have a reasonable chance of winning
    But Sanders didn't go after Hillary either.

    Quite frankly he simply doesn't seem to have it in him, just like Bush doesn't.

    I actually think that Sanders is a more difficult opponent for Trump than Clinton. Trump is clearly a "people" person, Clinton isn't and in any debate he would destroy her.

    Sanders on the other hand has the Corbyn factor within the dems that Clinton doesn't.

    Bloomberg WILL NOT run as an independent. He is well known and has moderate support in New York but not elsewhere. If he did run, he may easily cost Trump the presidency but wouldn't achieve enough to win it for himself. Why bother to only come second?

    He would have the best chance of any third party contendor in history against Trump and Sanders and could well win the coasts and much of the MidWest and Florida and Virginia. As a multibillionaire he could also easily afford it
    I just don't understand how Bloomberg could be considered to have a serious chance of winning as an independent.
  • Options
    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    watford30 said:

    Stafford had one positive result. Not long after, I went to visit a terminally ill friend(in the SE of England) and the nursing staff were brilliant. All patients had to be seen every so often and the buzzers were answered pdq.

    Frankly Stafford is not relevant to the Doctors strike, only in as much as it shows how little the Hippocratic oath means (if indeed they still take it).. patents have suffered as a result of their operations/procedures being cancelled. This strike seems to be about money pure and simple.. As for the hours they work, they don't know they were born, fewer hours seems to me equals less well trained Doctors and with less experience... so the quid pro quo is that the advancement ladder should therefore take longer to climb....

    Longer to qualify? They'll go on strike again.

    Still, it's fascinating to see so called 'medical professionals' regurgitating the Stafford reports to justify what happened there. Anyone with any sense of basic human decency wouldn't waste their time doing so.
    NO.. longer to climb the greasy pole.. ie career advancement.
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    'I expect one of the candidates in the next Tory leadership election to call for the Labour Party's membership to be criminalised.'

    Why criminalise a laughing stock? We never bothered with the Revolutionary Communist Party
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,175
    edited January 2016
    An example of a recommendation ('lesson') that Burnham (and sadly, presumably Dr Sox) would rather not have had made:
    Recommendation 173
    Every healthcare organisation and everyone working for them must be honest, open and truthful in all their dealings with patients and the public, and organisational and personal interests must never be allowed to outweigh the duty to be honest, open and truthful.
    In fact, it's sad that Francis felt it necessary that had to be said. It should be the first thing taught at medical school.

    And how about recommendation 5:
    Recommendation 5
    In reaching out to patients, consideration should be given to including expectations in the NHS Constitution that:
    *) Staff put patients before themselves;
    *) They will do everything in their power to protect patients from avoidable harm;
    *) They will be honest and open with patients regardless of the consequences for themselves;
    *) Where they are unable to provide the assistance a patient needs, they will direct them where possible to those who can do so;
    *) They will apply the NHS values in all their work
  • Options
    Wanderer said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Only about 5% of the comments in this thread are about Corbyn or Trident. Shows how relevant he / it is.

    I think the header is right though. Trident may be very relevant to Corbyn's survival.

    Yep, the leadership has decided to make it totemic. If they cannot change policy, where does it leave Corbyn, McDonnell etc? They will not be able to support conference-approved policy.

  • Options
    saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    MikeK said:

    This doesn't surprise me one bit
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35299930
    US apologises for Iran naval incursion- Revolutionary Guards

    Part of Obama's craven Iranian policy.

    What's craven about apologizing when one of your warships enters another countries waters?. I would expect the Iranians to do the same if they entered British waters.
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,448
    HYUFD said:

    Gaius said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gaius said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gaius said:

    Sean_F said:

    So what lies behind the sudden swing to Sanders?

    The american version of Corbynism?

    Corbyn won because he was athentic and the other three didn't do anything.

    Hillary, unlike her husband is a shit politician and has been connected to numerous scandals.

    Sanders is benefitting from the devotion of the faithful just like Corbyn did.


    Trump is going to be the next president.

    (Expect Cruz to be the next VP or AG, I imagine this has already been worked out).

    Sanders is presently leading Trump in the polls
    Expect this to change.

    Trump hasn't gone after Sanders yet.

    Sanders hasn't gone after Trump either. Though I think Bloomberg would run anyway if that was the choice and would have a reasonable chance of winning
    But Sanders didn't go after Hillary either.

    Quite frankly he simply doesn't seem to have it in him, just like Bush doesn't.

    I actually think that Sanders is a more difficult opponent for Trump than Clinton. Trump is clearly a "people" person, Clinton isn't and in any debate he would destroy her.

    Sanders on the other hand has the Corbyn factor within the dems that Clinton doesn't.

    Bloomberg WILL NOT run as an independent. He is well known and has moderate support in New York but not elsewhere. If he did run, he may easily cost Trump the presidency but wouldn't achieve enough to win it for himself. Why bother to only come second?

    He would have the best chance of any third party contendor in history against Trump and Sanders and could well win the coasts and much of the MidWest and Florida and Virginia. As a multibillionaire he could also easily afford it
    Best chance in history? The bar for that is 1912, and that race shows just how big the barriers are.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,014

    Wanderer said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Only about 5% of the comments in this thread are about Corbyn or Trident. Shows how relevant he / it is.

    I think the header is right though. Trident may be very relevant to Corbyn's survival.

    Yep, the leadership has decided to make it totemic. If they cannot change policy, where does it leave Corbyn, McDonnell etc? They will not be able to support conference-approved policy.

    It will mean that Corbyn's supporters will have to become full members and turn up to Conference for the policy debate. Most of them think Twitter is a substitute for that, it isn't.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Hmm

    EXCLUSIVE: SNP MP Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh under pressure over charity she chaired.
    Only 3% went to good causes. https://t.co/sYAYqsnbTA
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,481
    The problem with Staffs was, as foxinsox says, top down management systems which resulted
    In very poor care but lots of forms neatly filled in. The real target of the public Francis inquiry was this target driven culture which dehumanised the staff and the patients alike. It was a really important lesson which has application even beyond the Health Service.

    It is simplistic to say that this was a fundamental rejection of the New Labour way of managing and "improving" public services but there are significant elements of truth to it. I personally have doubts that even now the lessons of Francis have been fully applied. It is an emphasis on cultuppre and politicians of all stripes prefer things easier to measure, even if they are ultimately less important.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,024
    Good morning, everyone.

    Remind me who was forced to resign by pressure?

    You could argue Blair. After he'd been there for a decade (more, as leader of the party), had one single pre-eminent rival/potential successor, and had pre-empted his own departure.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,013

    HYUFD said:

    Gaius said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gaius said:

    HYUFD said:

    Gaius said:

    Sean_F said:

    So what lies behind the sudden swing to Sanders?

    The american version of Corbynism?

    Corbyn won because he was athentic and the other three didn't do anything.

    Hillary, unlike her husband is a shit politician and has been connected to numerous scandals.

    Sanders is benefitting from the devotion of the faithful just like Corbyn did.


    Trump is going to be the next president.

    (Expect Cruz to be the next VP or AG, I imagine this has already been worked out).

    Sanders is presently leading Trump in the polls
    Expect this to change.

    Trump hasn't gone after Sanders yet.

    Sanders hasn't gone after Trump either. Though I think Bloomberg would run anyway if that was the choice and would have a reasonable chance of winning
    But Sanders didn't go after Hillary either.

    Quite frankly he simply doesn't seem to have it in him, just like Bush doesn't.

    I actually think that Sanders is a more difficult opponent for Trump than Clinton. Trump is clearly a "people" person, Clinton isn't and in any debate he would destroy her.

    Sanders on the other hand has the Corbyn factor within the dems that Clinton doesn't.

    Bloomberg WILL NOT run as an independent. He is well known and has moderate support in New York but not elsewhere. If he did run, he may easily cost Trump the presidency but wouldn't achieve enough to win it for himself. Why bother to only come second?

    He would have the best chance of any third party contendor in history against Trump and Sanders and could well win the coasts and much of the MidWest and Florida and Virginia. As a multibillionaire he could also easily afford it
    Best chance in history? The bar for that is 1912, and that race shows just how big the barriers are.
    How do you win with no infrastructure in place, against two party machines?
  • Options
    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Plato..She is a very busy lady in the HOC..
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,481
    As a post script I think the recent cancellation of the inquiry into the culture of banks was another example of the lessons of Francis not having been learned under this government. Culture is important.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,014
    Wow, someone's said it. Wait for the Guardian and Twitter to go mental!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/12095984/Muslim-men-considered-us-to-be-whores.html
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    runnymede said:

    'I expect one of the candidates in the next Tory leadership election to call for the Labour Party's membership to be criminalised.'

    Why criminalise a laughing stock? We never bothered with the Revolutionary Communist Party

    Remind me how many Parliamentary by-elections the RCP won.

  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,014

    Hmm

    EXCLUSIVE: SNP MP Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh under pressure over charity she chaired.
    Only 3% went to good causes. https://t.co/sYAYqsnbTA

    That's not a charity, it's a publically funded campaign vehicle!
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,646
    Charles said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Charles said:

    HYUFD said:



    Those conservatives will still happily vote for Trump against Hillary or Sanders, the ones who might vote for Bloomberg are relatively wealthy, fiscally conservative and relaxed about immigration, probably employing a few immigrants themselves

    FWIW, my OC Mother-in-law (solid GOP, backed Santorum last time round) is seriously considering voting for Hillary (or abstaining) in a Clinton vs Trump competition. This is despite the fact that she despises the Clintons. Anecdote, of course, but perhaps indicative on how people will actually vote in the ballot box when it's not a generic question (as it largely is at this stage)
    It'll be a fascinating choice, down to who you believe is the most mentally unbalanced and pathologically amoral candidate on the ballot in November.

    Since Trump only has B+ grades in those subjects, the choice seems clear...
    Clinton will be a bad President, but won't fundamentally damage the country.

    Trump could make it a laughing stock.

    The choice is clear. Albeit with a heavy heart.
    No more than Bush jnr, who was what used to be termed a simpleton.

  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Sandpit said:

    That's not a charity, it's a publically funded campaign vehicle!

    Surely not

    @Herald_Editor: The SNP Govt gave SAWA £16k of public money - hours after Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh applied to register it as a charity https://t.co/sYAYqsnbTA
  • Options
    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    @Herald_Editor: The SNP Govt gave SAWA £16k of public money - hours after Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh applied to register it as a charity https://t.co/sYAYqsnbTA

    Oh dear oh dear
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    saddened said:

    MikeK said:

    This doesn't surprise me one bit
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35299930
    US apologises for Iran naval incursion- Revolutionary Guards

    Part of Obama's craven Iranian policy.

    What's craven about apologizing when one of your warships enters another countries waters?. I would expect the Iranians to do the same if they entered British waters.
    Warships? They are little more than ww2 mtbs.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,175
    Tim_B said:

    saddened said:

    MikeK said:

    This doesn't surprise me one bit
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35299930
    US apologises for Iran naval incursion- Revolutionary Guards

    Part of Obama's craven Iranian policy.

    What's craven about apologizing when one of your warships enters another countries waters?. I would expect the Iranians to do the same if they entered British waters.
    Warships? They are little more than ww2 mtbs.
    It's not the first time this has happened to western forces:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Iranian_seizure_of_Royal_Navy_personnel

    Or even the second:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Iranian_seizure_of_Royal_Navy_personnel
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,024
    F1: found out through the top comment of this story (plans to speed up cars for 2017 etc: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/35283404 ) that Coulthard seems to have the commentary gig for Channel 4.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380
    Sandpit said:

    Wanderer said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Only about 5% of the comments in this thread are about Corbyn or Trident. Shows how relevant he / it is.

    I think the header is right though. Trident may be very relevant to Corbyn's survival.

    Yep, the leadership has decided to make it totemic. If they cannot change policy, where does it leave Corbyn, McDonnell etc? They will not be able to support conference-approved policy.

    It will mean that Corbyn's supporters will have to become full members and turn up to Conference for the policy debate. Most of them think Twitter is a substitute for that, it isn't.
    A lot have become full members and are gradually getting involved locally -see Luke Akehurst's very good article on this from a Blairite viewpoint:
    http://labourlist.org/2016/01/it-feels-like-there-are-two-labour-parties-but-not-in-the-way-you-think/

    The conference doesn't work the way you think - any member can buy a visitor's pass, but voting is representational, so to influence policy you simply need to ensure that the CLP's elected delegates support your preferred views.

  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    edited January 2016

    Tim_B said:

    saddened said:

    MikeK said:

    This doesn't surprise me one bit
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35299930
    US apologises for Iran naval incursion- Revolutionary Guards

    Part of Obama's craven Iranian policy.

    What's craven about apologizing when one of your warships enters another countries waters?. I would expect the Iranians to do the same if they entered British waters.
    Warships? They are little more than ww2 mtbs.
    It's not the first time this has happened to western forces:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Iranian_seizure_of_Royal_Navy_personnel

    Or even the second:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Iranian_seizure_of_Royal_Navy_personnel
    I imagine that once they have removed all the electronics, navigation and communication equipment from the boats they will release them.

    Apparently the Iranians are now saying the boat's navigation system was broken. Both of them? How likely is that?
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    F1: found out through the top comment of this story (plans to speed up cars for 2017 etc: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/35283404 ) that Coulthard seems to have the commentary gig for Channel 4.

    Is it safe to assume that McLaren will improve from total crap to just crap? How are Red Bull doing with the Renault engine?
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,024
    Mr. B, no.

    McLaren could make a great leap forward. Honda know the problem (MGU-H/K aren't hooked up properly) it's a question of whether they have both the technical nous and the freedom, within the rules, to make the necessary changes.

    Or they could fail utterly. Renault's reliability went downhill from 2014 to 2015, and one of their upgrades led to the engine actually becoming slower. Improvement is not guaranteed.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,014

    Sandpit said:

    Wanderer said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Only about 5% of the comments in this thread are about Corbyn or Trident. Shows how relevant he / it is.

    I think the header is right though. Trident may be very relevant to Corbyn's survival.

    Yep, the leadership has decided to make it totemic. If they cannot change policy, where does it leave Corbyn, McDonnell etc? They will not be able to support conference-approved policy.

    It will mean that Corbyn's supporters will have to become full members and turn up to Conference for the policy debate. Most of them think Twitter is a substitute for that, it isn't.
    A lot have become full members and are gradually getting involved locally -see Luke Akehurst's very good article on this from a Blairite viewpoint:
    http://labourlist.org/2016/01/it-feels-like-there-are-two-labour-parties-but-not-in-the-way-you-think/

    The conference doesn't work the way you think - any member can buy a visitor's pass, but voting is representational, so to influence policy you simply need to ensure that the CLP's elected delegates support your preferred views.
    Ah, thanks for correcting my ignorance. So the individual CLPs will elect delegates to the Conference, and they will be the ones who vote, rather than any members that turn up? So those with a view on Trident need to make sure that their CLP delegates have the same views.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,014
    edited January 2016

    F1: found out through the top comment of this story (plans to speed up cars for 2017 etc: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/35283404 ) that Coulthard seems to have the commentary gig for Channel 4.

    Yes, DC's production company will be producing the C4 coverage too.
    https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2016/01/11/a-neat-deal-for-dc/

    Apparently Top Gear were hoping to get him, for all the rumours it appears they haven't actually contracted anyone to the show except Evans.

    Edit: That BBC story is enlightening. How are they supposed to design the tyres for the new car if there's no testing allowed, and it sounds like the new regs give even more aerodynamic downforce, which will lead to even less overtaking than now!
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,024
    Mr. Sandpit, I'd also heard the rumours (many of them) that Coulthard was going to Top Gear.

    BBC have that back to front. One suspects Evans will be bloody awful.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,175
    Tim_B said:

    F1: found out through the top comment of this story (plans to speed up cars for 2017 etc: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/35283404 ) that Coulthard seems to have the commentary gig for Channel 4.

    Is it safe to assume that McLaren will improve from total crap to just crap? How are Red Bull doing with the Renault engine?
    McLaren-Honda's performance can't get much worse. Honda have some really good engineers, so I hold out some hope.

    As an aside, there seems a rather firm correlation between Macca's performance and the times they try building road cars. They designed/built the F1 between 1990/1 and 1999, and had fairly horrible (for them) results during that period, only recovering in 1998 when most of the road car work was done.

    Their next lone-build road car came along from 2010 period, just in time for another dip in form.

    So from that limited dataset, when McLaren start designing and building road cars, their racing form dramatically dips. Cause or correlation? The teams are meant to be separate, but you have to ask whether management attention is diverted away from F1.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Mr. B, no.

    McLaren could make a great leap forward. Honda know the problem (MGU-H/K aren't hooked up properly) it's a question of whether they have both the technical nous and the freedom, within the rules, to make the necessary changes.

    Or they could fail utterly. Renault's reliability went downhill from 2014 to 2015, and one of their upgrades led to the engine actually becoming slower. Improvement is not guaranteed.

    great leap forward - sounds very Chairman Mao.

    Renault - are we back to cheese eating surrender monkeys and freedom fries?

    I shall await your reports with interest.

    It's good to know that the most lantern jawed man since Desperate Dan has the Channel 4 commentary. ;)
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    RodCrosbyRodCrosby Posts: 7,737
    AndyJS said:

    JohnLoony said:

    Happy 110th Birthday to Zhou Yougang, the inventor of the Pinyin romanisation system

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhou_Youguang

    Where is he in the list of oldest living people?
    Probably around 400th...
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,023

    Mr. Sandpit, I'd also heard the rumours (many of them) that Coulthard was going to Top Gear.

    BBC have that back to front. One suspects Evans will be bloody awful.

    Mr Radio 2.
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Mr. Sandpit, I'd also heard the rumours (many of them) that Coulthard was going to Top Gear.

    BBC have that back to front. One suspects Evans will be bloody awful.

    Hammond was quite endearing as the cheeky chappie from Brum as part of the trio. Evans is just irritating as a dickhead redhead.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    "My favourite biscuit is a Tunnocks caramel wafer." -- @MhairiBlack tells @MumsnetTowers #Tunnocksgate https://t.co/7rlcWiaxyb
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    Tim_B said:

    Tim_B said:

    saddened said:

    MikeK said:

    This doesn't surprise me one bit
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35299930
    US apologises for Iran naval incursion- Revolutionary Guards

    Part of Obama's craven Iranian policy.

    What's craven about apologizing when one of your warships enters another countries waters?. I would expect the Iranians to do the same if they entered British waters.
    Warships? They are little more than ww2 mtbs.
    It's not the first time this has happened to western forces:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Iranian_seizure_of_Royal_Navy_personnel

    Or even the second:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Iranian_seizure_of_Royal_Navy_personnel
    I imagine that once they have removed all the electronics, navigation and communication equipment from the boats they will release them.

    Apparently the Iranians are now saying the boat's navigation system was broken. Both of them? How likely is that?
    It allows an honourable de-escalation.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,380
    All you need to know about Boris in one paragraph (admittedly attributed rather than direct speech: apparently he is tempted to endorse Leave but says that he isn't actually in favour of leaving: what to do? He's not ruled out endorsing it anyway!

    Point 3 here:
    http://link.huffingtonpost.com/view/524aa3dc3227b874ccf803013ihn2.9r/6b25a6b0
  • Options
    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Sandpit said:

    F1: found out through the top comment of this story (plans to speed up cars for 2017 etc: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/35283404 ) that Coulthard seems to have the commentary gig for Channel 4.

    Yes, DC's production company will be producing the C4 coverage too.
    https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2016/01/11/a-neat-deal-for-dc/

    Apparently Top Gear were hoping to get him, for all the rumours it appears they haven't actually contracted anyone to the show except Evans.

    Edit: That BBC story is enlightening. How are they supposed to design the tyres for the new car if there's no testing allowed, and it sounds like the new regs give even more aerodynamic downforce, which will lead to even less overtaking than now!
    I thought Sabine Schmitz was signed to the show?
  • Options
    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited January 2016
    Pulpstar said:

    Mr. Sandpit, I'd also heard the rumours (many of them) that Coulthard was going to Top Gear.

    BBC have that back to front. One suspects Evans will be bloody awful.

    Mr Radio 2.
    Evans is a giant ego, without the humour of Clarkson. TG is going to be a ratings losing, TV switching off disaster. I wouldn't be surprised if it was canned after a single series, assuming of course that a complete one makes it to transmission.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,014

    Mr. B, no.

    McLaren could make a great leap forward. Honda know the problem (MGU-H/K aren't hooked up properly) it's a question of whether they have both the technical nous and the freedom, within the rules, to make the necessary changes.

    Or they could fail utterly. Renault's reliability went downhill from 2014 to 2015, and one of their upgrades led to the engine actually becoming slower. Improvement is not guaranteed.

    The McLaren issue was indeed the MGU-H unit - it basically wasn't big enough but the tight packaging of the engine meant they couldn't fix it in-season due to the development rules. That meant they ran out of electric power on long straights, they also had the reliablilty problems everyone else had in 2014 as they got their heads around the new power units.

    If they get it right, expect them to be challenging with Williams and Force India, but if they get it wrong they'll be at the back again for another whole season.

    Next year could be very tight at the back of the grid - Marussia now have Mercedes power, and new entrant Haas have been working very closely with Ferrari and are expected to be quick out of the box.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,024
    Mr. B, Renault have their own team now, so as well as the loss of love from Red Bull's constant bitching, the engine manufacturer's prime concern will be team Renault, not Red Bull.

    As we've seen with Mercedes, sometimes updates can be mysteriously slow coming to non-manufacturer teams...

    Mr. B (2), we shall see. I may well tune into episode 1 to see how it stacks up.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Mr. Sandpit, I'd also heard the rumours (many of them) that Coulthard was going to Top Gear.

    BBC have that back to front. One suspects Evans will be bloody awful.

    Chris Evans is an experienced presenter and the BBC (and its viewers) know his style. Coulthard was never that likely -- it's like the old rumours around The Stig on Clarkson's TG where every retired F1 driver was named as a candidate.
  • Options
    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Interesting from Kirkup - Doctors about to be "uber'ed"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12093232/Strike-all-you-like-doctors-technology-will-soon-take-away-your-power.html

    "Now, change is coming; a dramatic increase in the productivity of the NHS’s exquisitely-qualified and expensive workforce is as necessary as it is desirable. Not even those at the very top of the social and professional scale can be safe from the glorious disruption technology brings.

    This will be the story of medicine and technology in the 21st Century: bad for doctors, good for the rest of us. The junior doctors should enjoy their position of strength for it will not last. "
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,014
    Tim_B said:

    Sandpit said:

    F1: found out through the top comment of this story (plans to speed up cars for 2017 etc: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/35283404 ) that Coulthard seems to have the commentary gig for Channel 4.

    Yes, DC's production company will be producing the C4 coverage too.
    https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2016/01/11/a-neat-deal-for-dc/

    Apparently Top Gear were hoping to get him, for all the rumours it appears they haven't actually contracted anyone to the show except Evans.

    Edit: That BBC story is enlightening. How are they supposed to design the tyres for the new car if there's no testing allowed, and it sounds like the new regs give even more aerodynamic downforce, which will lead to even less overtaking than now!
    I thought Sabine Schmitz was signed to the show?
    The rumours were Schmitz, Couthard and Chris Harris (UK magazine and Youtube journo, likes going sideways). They've definitely not got Couthard and there's been no official (from the BBC) announcement of the other two.

    Unfortunately it looks like a disaster before they've aired a single episode, and the old team on Amazon will have their new season ready to go first.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    watford30 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mr. Sandpit, I'd also heard the rumours (many of them) that Coulthard was going to Top Gear.

    BBC have that back to front. One suspects Evans will be bloody awful.

    Mr Radio 2.
    Evans is a giant ego, without the humour of Clarkson. TG is going to be a ratings losing, TV switching off disaster. I wouldn't be surprised if it was canned after a single series, assuming of course that a complete one makes it to transmission.
    I've lost count of the times Clarkson or the other 2 would say 'ambitious but rubbish' or ask why everything they do either breaks down, sinks, or catches fire. I just don't see Evans doing that. Evans says the car will be the star. But it isn't. Top Gear is about the presenters. It is a vehicle for vehicles, adventures and challenges.

    What made Top Gear work was the relationship and chemistry between the three of them. Top Gear Germany, USA or Australia just didn't work as well.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,024
    Mr. 30, if it's a disaster, they'll axe Evans and probably try someone new. The Stig is eminently recognisable, and the show got over 300m global viewers with Clarkson, Hammond and May. One would guess the BBC would not want to ditch the brand unless it was beyond saving.

    Mr. Sandpit, I'd be surprised if McLaren were back up to Williams' level. Force India had a cracking year given lack of early development, but McLaren's resources are far greater. If McLaren can't be top 5, it's got to count as another very bad year.

    I agree the back of the grid could be interesting but I'm not convinced Haas will be there [at the back, I mean]. They've been doing lots of work with Ferrari and have a top driver in Grosjean. If I were Sauber, I'd be worried.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,024
    edited January 2016
    Mr. L, May wasn't an experienced presenter. Experience is not the issue. It's about whether someone's likeable, and whether they have chemistry with their co-hosts.

    Edited extra bit: Mr. B, precisely. Top Gear wasn't a car show. It was a three blokes cocking about show.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Sandpit said:

    Tim_B said:

    Sandpit said:

    F1: found out through the top comment of this story (plans to speed up cars for 2017 etc: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/35283404 ) that Coulthard seems to have the commentary gig for Channel 4.

    Yes, DC's production company will be producing the C4 coverage too.
    https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2016/01/11/a-neat-deal-for-dc/

    Apparently Top Gear were hoping to get him, for all the rumours it appears they haven't actually contracted anyone to the show except Evans.

    Edit: That BBC story is enlightening. How are they supposed to design the tyres for the new car if there's no testing allowed, and it sounds like the new regs give even more aerodynamic downforce, which will lead to even less overtaking than now!
    I thought Sabine Schmitz was signed to the show?
    The rumours were Schmitz, Couthard and Chris Harris (UK magazine and Youtube journo, likes going sideways). They've definitely not got Couthard and there's been no official (from the BBC) announcement of the other two.

    Unfortunately it looks like a disaster before they've aired a single episode, and the old team on Amazon will have their new season ready to go first.
    Schmitz would be a good addition.

    If all else fails, they have The Stig. Some say.......
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,014
    Tim_B said:

    watford30 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mr. Sandpit, I'd also heard the rumours (many of them) that Coulthard was going to Top Gear.

    BBC have that back to front. One suspects Evans will be bloody awful.

    Mr Radio 2.
    Evans is a giant ego, without the humour of Clarkson. TG is going to be a ratings losing, TV switching off disaster. I wouldn't be surprised if it was canned after a single series, assuming of course that a complete one makes it to transmission.
    I've lost count of the times Clarkson or the other 2 would say 'ambitious but rubbish' or ask why everything they do either breaks down, sinks, or catches fire. I just don't see Evans doing that. Evans says the car will be the star. But it isn't. Top Gear is about the presenters. It is a vehicle for vehicles, adventures and challenges.

    What made Top Gear work was the relationship and chemistry between the three of them. Top Gear Germany, USA or Australia just didn't work as well.
    Yes. The old team would call a crap car crap. They key will be the demographics of the audience for the timeslot (8pm Sunday if they don't change it) - old Top Gear had as many women watching it as men. Women won't be interested in watching just another car show, it needs to be an entertainment show.
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    watford30watford30 Posts: 3,474
    edited January 2016
    TGOHF said:

    Interesting from Kirkup - Doctors about to be "uber'ed"

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12093232/Strike-all-you-like-doctors-technology-will-soon-take-away-your-power.html

    "Now, change is coming; a dramatic increase in the productivity of the NHS’s exquisitely-qualified and expensive workforce is as necessary as it is desirable. Not even those at the very top of the social and professional scale can be safe from the glorious disruption technology brings.

    This will be the story of medicine and technology in the 21st Century: bad for doctors, good for the rest of us. The junior doctors should enjoy their position of strength for it will not last. "

    GPs will be the first to be rendered obsolete.

    I see HMG sources have announced that they'll impose the new contract if no agreement is reached.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,024
    Mr. Sandpit, more women than men (at one point, at least. I remember because it struck me as unexpected, given the nature of the show).

    On an unrelated note, I liked the entirely mental first episode of Gotham's second series on Monday. It's like an unholy marriage of the Original Series' surreal madness and the grimness of the recent trilogy.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667

    Mr. B, no.

    McLaren could make a great leap forward. Honda know the problem (MGU-H/K aren't hooked up properly) it's a question of whether they have both the technical nous and the freedom, within the rules, to make the necessary changes.

    Or they could fail utterly. Renault's reliability went downhill from 2014 to 2015, and one of their upgrades led to the engine actually becoming slower. Improvement is not guaranteed.

    Honda are apparently very confident of fixing the issue, someone who would know says they think they can bring 2.2s per lap in performance from fixing their hybrid problems and the new Prodromou chassis will also have decent gains. If they are right then Alonso at 66/1 on PP looks very tempting, even as a trading bet.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    If the car was the star, we'd be unearthing William Woollard .
    Sandpit said:

    Tim_B said:

    watford30 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mr. Sandpit, I'd also heard the rumours (many of them) that Coulthard was going to Top Gear.

    BBC have that back to front. One suspects Evans will be bloody awful.

    Mr Radio 2.
    Evans is a giant ego, without the humour of Clarkson. TG is going to be a ratings losing, TV switching off disaster. I wouldn't be surprised if it was canned after a single series, assuming of course that a complete one makes it to transmission.
    I've lost count of the times Clarkson or the other 2 would say 'ambitious but rubbish' or ask why everything they do either breaks down, sinks, or catches fire. I just don't see Evans doing that. Evans says the car will be the star. But it isn't. Top Gear is about the presenters. It is a vehicle for vehicles, adventures and challenges.

    What made Top Gear work was the relationship and chemistry between the three of them. Top Gear Germany, USA or Australia just didn't work as well.
    Yes. The old team would call a crap car crap. They key will be the demographics of the audience for the timeslot (8pm Sunday if they don't change it) - old Top Gear had as many women watching it as men. Women won't be interested in watching just another car show, it needs to be an entertainment show.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    All you need to know about Boris in one paragraph (admittedly attributed rather than direct speech: apparently he is tempted to endorse Leave but says that he isn't actually in favour of leaving: what to do? He's not ruled out endorsing it anyway!

    Point 3 here:
    http://link.huffingtonpost.com/view/524aa3dc3227b874ccf803013ihn2.9r/6b25a6b0

    Sounds about right. Boris wants to be next leader and PM so he needs a platform after the mayoralty and the EU referendum will give him one. He doesn't need to win, just prove he can lead a proxy election. It may be Boris is angling for a Cabinet post to shut him up.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    Mr. L, May wasn't an experienced presenter. Experience is not the issue. It's about whether someone's likeable, and whether they have chemistry with their co-hosts.

    Edited extra bit: Mr. B, precisely. Top Gear wasn't a car show. It was a three blokes cocking about show.

    To be fair, May has learned well. I enjoyed his wine show. and a couple of his other shows. Clarkson is good on his own too, if iconoclastic. Hammond wears on one after a short while on his own.

    But as a trio they are a rare combination, and they are smart enough to realize it.

    Roll on the Amazon show.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,667

    Mr. B, Renault have their own team now, so as well as the loss of love from Red Bull's constant bitching, the engine manufacturer's prime concern will be team Renault, not Red Bull.

    As we've seen with Mercedes, sometimes updates can be mysteriously slow coming to non-manufacturer teams...

    Mr. B (2), we shall see. I may well tune into episode 1 to see how it stacks up.

    Red Bull aren't getting the whole power unit from Renault, just the ICE, the hybrid parts, electrics and control units are going to be custom built by Red Bull, the rumours are that they are also developing their own ICE and will become fully independent for 2017
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,024
    edited January 2016
    Mr. Max, so they say. They also reckoned, multiple times, they'd bring great improvements to the engine in the 2015 season. Didn't happen.

    I'm not saying it can't or won't, just that it might, or it might not, and some optimistic pronouncements don't hold much weight.

    Prodromou probably knows his beans, but Ferrari has James Allison[sp].

    As a trading bet, Alonso may make sense, but Button kept him very honest last year. Button's odds will be longer and may be better value (cf backing Rosberg for the title at 16 or so in 2014).

    Edited extra bit: Mr. Max, cheers for that info, (although the combustion engine is quite a large component :p ).

    I heard a similar rumour a while ago, that they'd have an Infiniti engine. This sounds a bit similar. Hopefully they'll stop bleating all the damned time.
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669
    Sandpit said:

    Tim_B said:

    watford30 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mr. Sandpit, I'd also heard the rumours (many of them) that Coulthard was going to Top Gear.

    BBC have that back to front. One suspects Evans will be bloody awful.

    Mr Radio 2.
    Evans is a giant ego, without the humour of Clarkson. TG is going to be a ratings losing, TV switching off disaster. I wouldn't be surprised if it was canned after a single series, assuming of course that a complete one makes it to transmission.
    I've lost count of the times Clarkson or the other 2 would say 'ambitious but rubbish' or ask why everything they do either breaks down, sinks, or catches fire. I just don't see Evans doing that. Evans says the car will be the star. But it isn't. Top Gear is about the presenters. It is a vehicle for vehicles, adventures and challenges.

    What made Top Gear work was the relationship and chemistry between the three of them. Top Gear Germany, USA or Australia just didn't work as well.
    Yes. The old team would call a crap car crap. They key will be the demographics of the audience for the timeslot (8pm Sunday if they don't change it) - old Top Gear had as many women watching it as men. Women won't be interested in watching just another car show, it needs to be an entertainment show.
    The latest Top Gear re-edit: Top Gear : The Races, hosted by Matt Leblanc, starts on BBC America next Monday at 9pm.
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    bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,911
    watford30 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mr. Sandpit, I'd also heard the rumours (many of them) that Coulthard was going to Top Gear.

    BBC have that back to front. One suspects Evans will be bloody awful.

    Mr Radio 2.
    Evans is a giant ego, without the humour of Clarkson. TG is going to be a ratings losing, TV switching off disaster. I wouldn't be surprised if it was canned after a single series, assuming of course that a complete one makes it to transmission.
    If I were the BBC I would put it on BBC 1. That way ratings would hold up better.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Mr. L, May wasn't an experienced presenter. Experience is not the issue. It's about whether someone's likeable, and whether they have chemistry with their co-hosts.

    Indeed -- the point was that Evans is not a surprise package: he presents The One Show and TFI Friday. A better rumour imo might be that some of Evans' commercial activities raise problems: if the BBC axed Michel Roux Jr from Masterchef because he advertised potatoes, is it OK for Chris Evans to be a quasi-dealer in vintage supercars?
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    Tim_BTim_B Posts: 7,669

    If the car was the star, we'd be unearthing William Woollard .

    Sandpit said:

    Tim_B said:

    watford30 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Mr. Sandpit, I'd also heard the rumours (many of them) that Coulthard was going to Top Gear.

    BBC have that back to front. One suspects Evans will be bloody awful.

    Mr Radio 2.
    Evans is a giant ego, without the humour of Clarkson. TG is going to be a ratings losing, TV switching off disaster. I wouldn't be surprised if it was canned after a single series, assuming of course that a complete one makes it to transmission.
    I've lost count of the times Clarkson or the other 2 would say 'ambitious but rubbish' or ask why everything they do either breaks down, sinks, or catches fire. I just don't see Evans doing that. Evans says the car will be the star. But it isn't. Top Gear is about the presenters. It is a vehicle for vehicles, adventures and challenges.

    What made Top Gear work was the relationship and chemistry between the three of them. Top Gear Germany, USA or Australia just didn't work as well.
    Yes. The old team would call a crap car crap. They key will be the demographics of the audience for the timeslot (8pm Sunday if they don't change it) - old Top Gear had as many women watching it as men. Women won't be interested in watching just another car show, it needs to be an entertainment show.
    I remember him from Tomorrow's World with Raymond Baxter.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,024
    Mr. L, all animals are equal, some are more equal than others. I think Coulthard was, when he joined the BBC F1 team, an ambassador for Red Bull.

    Maybe grandfathering in such deals is ok, but new ones are frowned upon?
This discussion has been closed.