I think the idea of a stitch up by MPs is a non-starter, all of these new activists they have won't be very helpful come election time when doors need to knocked and leaflets dropped if they go down that route.
No, the only way to do it is for MPs to begin getting moderate people back on board and to convince moderates that without a reasonable centre-left voice the nation will be left to Tory domination and the only way to avoid that is to join the party and begin challenging the extreme-left dogma of Corbyn and his acolytes.
Without shifting the membership back towards the centre any kind of coup against Corbyn will amount to nothing. It would be better for Labour MPs to take their time, get their pieces in place, let Corbyn take the hit of multiple election losses at the locals to weaken him, start talking up one of Umuna, Hunt or Creasy and get Watson to resign the day after another battering at the local and EU elections in 2019.
Might it be best for the long term future of the party to let Corbyn stay until 2020 and have him held to account for the result. Would New Labour have been possible without Foot's defeat?
German broadcaster ZDF apologized for delays in reporting of Cologne mass sex attacks https://t.co/SYxd5FxR4F
Der Spiegel is reporting that the suspects so far are 14 Syrians and 1 Afghani, all asylum seekers. And that far from being "minor" as originally claimed, the police feared fatalities.
Just explosive for Merkel.
This might explain the cover-up, if you are conspiratorially-minded
The accounts coming out just get worse and worse. People saying around the cathedral has been a long time dodgy area are missing the point. This is far worse than just pick-pocketing (which apparently has become a problem, that never used to be in central Cologne until recently), although that was part of the lawlessness.
On pickpocketing, we were warned in Vienna by a local tour guide of a group of about a dozen refugee girls in their early teens, who were dressed as tourists and milling around the entrance to one of the big hotels. They got picked up by the police, but were back two days later.
A taxi driver moaned to us about them. The police say they don't have the manpower. But the driver pointed out they have three thousand traffic wardens in the city centre....
Just get used to Europe's cities being a whole lot riskier to walk around.
the only way to do it is for MPs to begin getting moderate people back on board
Hi, would you like to join the Labour Party? Our leader is a unilateralist, marxist who hates us and apologises for terrorism, but we hope to change that.
LOL! So an article accusing the Chancellor of fuelling a debt-binge features as evidence... a graph showing household debt has fallen dramatically, and argues that super-low interest rates make housing unaffordable for borrowers.
The article swerves into fallacy from the third paragraph onwards: the fallacy that Osborne could have avoided increasing debt. When you inherit a deficit that is simply impossible and the deficit has been cut consistently.
Considering all of the realistic alternatives to Osborne have been promoting a slower cut to the deficit to blame him for the inherited deficit not being cut faster is interesting to say the least.
German broadcaster ZDF apologized for delays in reporting of Cologne mass sex attacks https://t.co/SYxd5FxR4F
Der Spiegel is reporting that the suspects so far are 14 Syrians and 1 Afghani, all asylum seekers. And that far from being "minor" as originally claimed, the police feared fatalities.
Just explosive for Merkel.
This might explain the cover-up, if you are conspiratorially-minded
The accounts coming out just get worse and worse. People saying around the cathedral has been a long time dodgy area are missing the point. This is far worse than just pick-pocketing (which apparently has become a problem, that never used to be in central Cologne until recently), although that was part of the lawlessness.
On pickpocketing, we were warned in Vienna by a local tour guide of a group of about a dozen refugee girls in their early teens, who were dressed as tourists and milling around the entrance to one of the big hotels. They got picked up by the police, but were back two days later.
A taxi driver moaned to us about them. The police say they don't have the manpower. But the driver pointed out they have three thousand traffic wardens in the city centre....
Just get used to Europe's cities being a whole lot riskier to walk around.
I wouldn't be surprised if pick-pocketing has risen. We know it has in London, but we know a lot of is controlled by Romanian gangs and that has been the same in lots of other Europe cities. Also, we know that some cities have had serious problems for a long time e.g. Barcelona (although apparently it has got even worse).
The accounts of what has happened here though goes way beyond this. Most pickpockets want to get in and get out asap. They don't want you to know you have even been robbed. The reports coming from Germany are very different.
''I find it rather strange we haven't had any CCTV footage leak. It is a major tourist area and the main train station.''
I read there were police by the van full there yesterday.....when 300 Cologne women organised a spontaneous protest.
The contempt the German establishment have for their own citizens really is quite breathtaking.
If people keep voting in the same old shower regardless, the contempt, if indeed it is contempt, is well deserved. They, like us, get the politicians and thus establishment they deserve.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
German broadcaster ZDF apologized for delays in reporting of Cologne mass sex attacks https://t.co/SYxd5FxR4F
Der Spiegel is reporting that the suspects so far are 14 Syrians and 1 Afghani, all asylum seekers. And that far from being "minor" as originally claimed, the police feared fatalities.
Just explosive for Merkel.
This might explain the cover-up, if you are conspiratorially-minded
The accounts coming out just get worse and worse. People saying around the cathedral has been a long time dodgy area are missing the point. This is far worse than just pick-pocketing (which apparently has become a problem, that never used to be in central Cologne until recently), although that was part of the lawlessness.
At least it's not taking decades to come out like the celebrity cases we have had here.
I stand by my thinking that the common thread running through all this (including both Rotherham and allegedly Jimmy Saville etc) is not race but instead not standing squarely up for victims and in many cases not believing victims. Whether the victim or perpertrator is any ethnicity should be irrelevant the victim should be believed unless shown to be a liar and should be supported with the crime taken seriously.
I think the common thread is that people in authority want an easy life. Confronting a powerful celebrity or offending powerful community leaders is difficult.
''I find it rather strange we haven't had any CCTV footage leak. It is a major tourist area and the main train station.''
I read there were police by the van full there yesterday.....when 300 Cologne women organised a spontaneous protest.
The contempt the German establishment have for their own citizens really is quite breathtaking.
Well we are definitely at Stage III, warning about backlash, don't blame anybody, fear of the far right growing...
Ralf Jaeger, interior minister for North Rhine-Westphalia, said police had to "adjust" to the fact that groups of men had attacked women en masse.
Mr Jaeger also warned that anti-immigrant groups were trying to use the attacks to stir up hatred against refugees. "What happens on the right-wing platforms and in chatrooms is at least as awful as the acts of those assaulting the women," he said. "This is poisoning the climate of our society."
The police have to "adjust" apparently. What a terrible word to use. Interesting also he seems to equate hate speech with rape, sorry not even equate, it is "at least", so in fact could be worse than rape.
German broadcaster ZDF apologized for delays in reporting of Cologne mass sex attacks https://t.co/SYxd5FxR4F
Der Spiegel is reporting that the suspects so far are 14 Syrians and 1 Afghani, all asylum seekers. And that far from being "minor" as originally claimed, the police feared fatalities.
Just explosive for Merkel.
This might explain the cover-up, if you are conspiratorially-minded
The accounts coming out just get worse and worse. People saying around the cathedral has been a long time dodgy area are missing the point. This is far worse than just pick-pocketing (which apparently has become a problem, that never used to be in central Cologne until recently), although that was part of the lawlessness.
At least it's not taking decades to come out like the celebrity cases we have had here.
I stand by my thinking that the common thread running through all this (including both Rotherham and allegedly Jimmy Saville etc) is not race but instead not standing squarely up for victims and in many cases not believing victims. Whether the victim or perpertrator is any ethnicity should be irrelevant the victim should be believed unless shown to be a liar and should be supported with the crime taken seriously.
Don't be a dork. No one is disbelieving the German victims. And yes, religion/culture are major factors. The incidents in Cologne and Hamburg are spookIly similar to the mass rapes and assaults from Tahrir Square Cairo - right down to the techniques used - groups of men circling the victim, abusing and spitting, then moving in for assault and rape when the woman is terrified and separated from any friends.
If you import lots of young men from Islamic countries you also import their commonly primitivel attitudes to women, multiplied by frustrated hormones, and the anger of the refugee. It's a recipe for total disaster. As we have seen.
Initial reports did seem to be disbelieving of what had happened.
I think that Corbyn & Co. have already written off the next election. As Alistair Meeks says, they're looking to win once, on a hard left platform, at same future point.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
Corbyn was far and away the best candidate in terms of energy and presentation and ideas during the leadership campaign. It seems quite possible although many of the regular members found that very appealing and even his far left dream attractive, if he is demonstrated to be an electoral disaster then, if presented with a new leadership campaign, they would again gravitate to the most energetic, positive candidate. That might be another lefty, but it could be someone else I would guess - a lot of fair weather socialists living the dream right now who would not find the same message as appealing from Diane Abbott. As indeed they did not 5 years ago.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The Labour party electorate is angry, alienated from the rest of public opinion and likes a clear message that validates their prejudices. But as a whole the membership are not card-carrying Trot entryists and the members are open to being led by someone well to the right of Jeremy Corbyn who can inspire them with a positive message. His victory was in large part down to the uninspiring alternatives presented to them.
Enough of the members will eventually allow themselves to see where Jeremy Corbyn is failing (even if they blame his failure on the media). If a constructive alternative is found, they may desert him surprisingly quickly if he shows no signs of getting his act together.
A careful reading of Nick Palmer's posts is very instructive.
I stand by my prediction of last week that he'll see the year out but I'm less confident about it than I was a week ago when I made it.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
Firstly, you are treating everyone who voted for Corbyn as one monolithic block. There are plenty of soft left in there who didn't like the other candidates and might be persuadable. You are also forgetting about the Unions. If McCluskey is onboard with a compromise candidate it will be easier to topple Corbyn
We'll see what happens to the accused asylum seekers in Germany. Ralf Jaeger's comments remain despicable. The national interior minister seems to have a more sensible view (I forget his precise comments).
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The Labour party electorate is angry, alienated from the rest of public opinion and likes a clear message that validates their prejudices. But as a whole the membership are not card-carrying Trot entryists and the members are open to being led by someone well to the right of Jeremy Corbyn who can inspire them with a positive message. His victory was in large part down to the uninspiring alternatives presented to them.
Enough of the members will eventually allow themselves to see where Jeremy Corbyn is failing (even if they blame his failure on the media). If a constructive alternative is found, they may desert him surprisingly quickly if he shows no signs of getting his act together.
A careful reading of Nick Palmer's posts is very instructive.
I stand by my prediction of last week that he'll see the year out but I'm less confident about it than I was a week ago when I made it.
The only difficulty with that is that as every week like this one wears on - the 'moderates' continue to leave the party - ensuring that the Trot entryist section grows in influence. Yes, they might come back as 3quid voters in the event of an inspiring choice to vote for - but it is hard to see the constructive alternative in the current PLP
Not really up on German politics, but does this have the potential (both the incidents themselves and the strange absence of initial coverage) to damage Merkel and her party's prospects? I mean seriously damage, rather than knocking a few points off the polling.
It's also striking that the two UK opt-outs (Schengen and the eurozone) appear wiser and wiser.
Aside from whether it was or wasn't young Syrian or North African men doing the assault, I'd suggest the German Police and authorities should be in serious trouble for not dealing with the incidents in a timely and robust manner.
Not really up on German politics, but does this have the potential (both the incidents themselves and the strange absence of initial coverage) to damage Merkel and her party's prospects? I mean seriously damage, rather than knocking a few points off the polling.
It's also striking that the two UK opt-outs (Schengen and the eurozone) appear wiser and wiser.
I think Dave might have called it right on the general approach to Syrian Refugee crisis (you can argue over the numbers) i.e. Don't just tell the world all come (and claim you are Syrian while you are it). Rather you must register at a camp and we will check you out and then decide.
''I find it rather strange we haven't had any CCTV footage leak. It is a major tourist area and the main train station.''
I read there were police by the van full there yesterday.....when 300 Cologne women organised a spontaneous protest.
The contempt the German establishment have for their own citizens really is quite breathtaking.
Well we are definitely at Stage III, warning about backlash, don't blame anybody, fear of the far right growing...
Ralf Jaeger, interior minister for North Rhine-Westphalia, said police had to "adjust" to the fact that groups of men had attacked women en masse.
Mr Jaeger also warned that anti-immigrant groups were trying to use the attacks to stir up hatred against refugees. "What happens on the right-wing platforms and in chatrooms is at least as awful as the acts of those assaulting the women," he said. "This is poisoning the climate of our society."
The police have to "adjust" apparently. What a terrible word to use. Interesting also he seems to equate hate speech with rape, sorry not even equate, it is "at least", so in fact could be worse than rape.
It's like expressing more concern over the non-existent "backlash" against Muslims than against the Paris attacks.
German broadcaster ZDF apologized for delays in reporting of Cologne mass sex attacks https://t.co/SYxd5FxR4F
Der Spiegel is reporting that the suspects so far are 14 Syrians and 1 Afghani, all asylum seekers. And that far from being "minor" as originally claimed, the police feared fatalities.
Just explosive for Merkel.
This might explain the cover-up, if you are conspiratorially-minded
The accounts coming out just get worse and worse. People saying around the cathedral has been a long time dodgy area are missing the point. This is far worse than just pick-pocketing (which apparently has become a problem, that never used to be in central Cologne until recently), although that was part of the lawlessness.
At least it's not taking decades to come out like the celebrity cases we have had here.
I stand by my thinking that the common thread running through all this (including both Rotherham and allegedly Jimmy Saville etc) is not race but instead not standing squarely up for victims and in many cases not believing victims. Whether the victim or perpertrator is any ethnicity should be irrelevant the victim should be believed unless shown to be a liar and should be supported with the crime taken seriously.
I think the common thread is that people in authority want an easy life. Confronting a powerful celebrity or offending powerful community leaders is difficult.
Exactly! Whereas having a machine send a fixed penalty notice to a driver is on the other hand very easy.
It isn't just the powerful this applies to though. Get burgled and the response is all but blaming the victim rather than the perpertrator as far as what should be done to improve security.
A few years back I had paint thrown on my car at night in a car park behind work and was basically told to go see if any neighbouring businesses had CCTV footage of it happening. If I could solve the case for them they'd investigate.
Aside from whether it was or wasn't young Syrian or North African men doing the assault, I'd suggest the German Police and authorities should be in serious trouble for not dealing with the incidents in a timely and robust manner.
Not to let the police off the hook entirely, I would suggest that Cologne police have probably have little experience of dealing with these kind of issues.
Aside from whether it was or wasn't young Syrian or North African men doing the assault, I'd suggest the German Police and authorities should be in serious trouble for not dealing with the incidents in a timely and robust manner.
In fairness to the German Police, one hundred of these crimes in one place in one evening is a highly abnormal occurrence in a modern western liberal democracy.
The fools that decided to let these people in are the ones whose heads should be on the block.
Aside from whether it was or wasn't young Syrian or North African men doing the assault, I'd suggest the German Police and authorities should be in serious trouble for not dealing with the incidents in a timely and robust manner.
Not to let the police off the hook entirely, I would suggest that Cologne police have probably have little experience of dealing with these kind of issues.
When Germany was last invaded from the East, by the Red Army, there was a rape epidemic. I'm not surprised to see the latest wave of barbaric invaders behaving similarly.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The Labour party electorate is angry, alienated from the rest of public opinion and likes a clear message that validates their prejudices. But as a whole the membership are not card-carrying Trot entryists and the members are open to being led by someone well to the right of Jeremy Corbyn who can inspire them with a positive message. His victory was in large part down to the uninspiring alternatives presented to them.
Enough of the members will eventually allow themselves to see where Jeremy Corbyn is failing (even if they blame his failure on the media). If a constructive alternative is found, they may desert him surprisingly quickly if he shows no signs of getting his act together.
A careful reading of Nick Palmer's posts is very instructive.
I stand by my prediction of last week that he'll see the year out but I'm less confident about it than I was a week ago when I made it.
The only difficulty with that is that as every week like this one wears on - the 'moderates' continue to leave the party - ensuring that the Trot entryist section grows in influence. Yes, they might come back as 3quid voters in the event of an inspiring choice to vote for - but it is hard to see the constructive alternative in the current PLP
At what point do Trots cease to be entryists and start being the party? Labour once was a full on socialist party with Clause IV etc existing for most of its existence. The idea Labour will inevitably revert to a central position is not necessarily true.
1. Does being a filthy lying scumbag come naturally to you, or do you have to work hard at it?
2. Will you apologise to those women you smeared, including the PM's wife?
3. Given your instrumental role in hounding from senior roles those who might have posed a threat to Brown, are you happy with what the Labour Party has now become?
4. Are there any circumstances where the ends might not justify the means?
5. For how much longer will have to work your penance at a Christian charity for low wages, to atone for your sins working for Gordon Brown?
''Exactly! Whereas having a machine send a fixed penalty notice to a driver is on the other hand very easy.''
Such b8llocks. There are certain crimes that are prosecuted with energy and zeal by the police. For example whether Katie Hopkins has offended anyone (interviewed under caution). Whether someone might be doing a few extra miles an hour on certain stretches of road. Or whether locals wanting to blow the whistle on Rotherham rapists were disturbing community relations.
You just don't want to acknowledge that the rule of law in Britain has gone out of the window to be replaced by policing by the prevailing political priorities of our day.
''Exactly! Whereas having a machine send a fixed penalty notice to a driver is on the other hand very easy.''
Such b8llocks. There are certain crimes that are prosecuted with energy and zeal by the police. For example whether Katie Hopkins has offended anyone (interviewed under caution). Whether someone might be doing a few extra miles an hour on certain stretches of road. Or whether locals wanting to blow the whistle on Rotherham rapists were disturbing community relations.
You just don't want to acknowledge that the rule of law in Britain has gone out of the window to be replaced by policing by the prevailing political priorities of our day.
Woman fined £100 for pausing to hug her father: Mother-of-two gets a ticket after stopping for 13 seconds outside an airport as she picked up her 70-year-old dad
''Exactly! Whereas having a machine send a fixed penalty notice to a driver is on the other hand very easy.''
Such b8llocks. There are certain crimes that are prosecuted with energy and zeal by the police. For example whether Katie Hopkins has offended anyone (interviewed under caution). Whether someone might be doing a few extra miles an hour on certain stretches of road. Or whether locals wanting to blow the whistle on Rotherham rapists were disturbing community relations.
You just don't want to acknowledge that the rule of law in Britain has gone out of the window to be replaced by policing by the prevailing political priorities of our day.
I covered the extra miles per hour one with my "machine send a fixed penalty notice" remark did I not?
And the issue isn't politics it is laziness. Having a camera record a speed means there is no disputing that the crime was committed making it an easy prosecution. Especially if done by post with a fixed penalty notice.
Miss DiCanio, is it an invasion if they're invited?
Shades of the Roman Empire's brilliant plan to invite in barbarians to help provide manpower for the army.
Within reason, it was sensible. For centuries, barbarian soldiers fought very well for Rome and Byzantium, alongside the regular army. The folly was to rely on nobody but barbarians.
Mr. F, also depends on which barbarians. The Varangian Guard was rather more trustworthy than most of the Romans themselves.
Also, many Roman citizens from places like the Danube, or the Rhineland, who served in large numbers in the army in the 3rd and 4th centuries, would have been considered as barbarians by citizens of more prosperous areas.
''Exactly! Whereas having a machine send a fixed penalty notice to a driver is on the other hand very easy.''
Such b8llocks. There are certain crimes that are prosecuted with energy and zeal by the police. For example whether Katie Hopkins has offended anyone (interviewed under caution). Whether someone might be doing a few extra miles an hour on certain stretches of road. Or whether locals wanting to blow the whistle on Rotherham rapists were disturbing community relations.
You just don't want to acknowledge that the rule of law in Britain has gone out of the window to be replaced by policing by the prevailing political priorities of our day.
Woman fined £100 for pausing to hug her father: Mother-of-two gets a ticket after stopping for 13 seconds outside an airport as she picked up her 70-year-old dad
Add Tyson Fury being investigated for his (unpleasant) comments.
What's the issue with the woman getting fined for stopping where she shouldn't stop? It does seem excessive for 13 seconds, but the zone is clearly signposted, according to the Mail she would have passed around 20 such signs. There just has to be a limit, a line that mustn't be crossed, whether it be speed limits, parking restrictions or things like no drink zones.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The Labour party electorate is angry, alienated from the rest of public opinion and likes a clear message that validates their prejudices. But as a whole the membership are not card-carrying Trot entryists and the members are open to being led by someone well to the right of Jeremy Corbyn who can inspire them with a positive message. His victory was in large part down to the uninspiring alternatives presented to them.
Enough of the members will eventually allow themselves to see where Jeremy Corbyn is failing (even if they blame his failure on the media). If a constructive alternative is found, they may desert him surprisingly quickly if he shows no signs of getting his act together.
A careful reading of Nick Palmer's posts is very instructive.
I stand by my prediction of last week that he'll see the year out but I'm less confident about it than I was a week ago when I made it.
The only difficulty with that is that as every week like this one wears on - the 'moderates' continue to leave the party - ensuring that the Trot entryist section grows in influence. Yes, they might come back as 3quid voters in the event of an inspiring choice to vote for - but it is hard to see the constructive alternative in the current PLP
The one chink of light I can see for the Labour party is that a period of Corbyn reign should exorcise, once and for all, the Iraq issue for the party. Whatever one's views on Blair and the invasion, it really is time for the party to move on. Chilcot will of course re-open the whole thing but perhaps only for a week or two.
It seems to me though, as an outsider, that a lot of Labour's rejoiners can't move on.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
I don't think members chose Corbyn because he is on the far left. They chose him because they felt - a la Nick Palmer - that he was polite, consensual, anti-spin, to the left of the other three candidates and prepared to build a big tent. That none of that is really true (though he may be polite to your face) is besides the point. They projected. And like Nick, they chose to ignore or disregard his 30 years of cosying up to apologists for and advocates of terrorism, the subjugation of women and the killing of homosexuals. They voted in reaction to defeat and in disgust at triangulation. They wanted a Labour party that stands for something; one that made them feel good about themselves. At some stage, for many of them that will no longer be enough. They will want to win again. The far left's challenge is to seize as much control as possible before that moment comes.
Want to know why Trident is such a big issue even though it is going to be introduced and there is nothing that labour can do to stop it? Once party policy is officially to oppose Trident it makes it nigh on impossible for someone who is pro-Trident to stand for the leadership. That rules out the likes of Dan Jarvis, Chukka etc.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The aged Tory membership kept on electing right-wing losers like IDS for years until the penny dropped and they stopped banging their collective heads on the wall and went for an electable liberal moderniser like Cameron. The same will happen to Labour once the hard-left have been given enough rope to hang themselves. It will take one more GE though could come sooner.
''Exactly! Whereas having a machine send a fixed penalty notice to a driver is on the other hand very easy.''
Such b8llocks. There are certain crimes that are prosecuted with energy and zeal by the police. For example whether Katie Hopkins has offended anyone (interviewed under caution). Whether someone might be doing a few extra miles an hour on certain stretches of road. Or whether locals wanting to blow the whistle on Rotherham rapists were disturbing community relations.
You just don't want to acknowledge that the rule of law in Britain has gone out of the window to be replaced by policing by the prevailing political priorities of our day.
Woman fined £100 for pausing to hug her father: Mother-of-two gets a ticket after stopping for 13 seconds outside an airport as she picked up her 70-year-old dad
Add Tyson Fury being investigated for his (unpleasant) comments.
What's the issue with the woman getting fined for stopping where she shouldn't stop? It does seem excessive for 13 seconds, but the zone is clearly signposted, according to the Mail she would have passed around 20 such signs. There just has to be a limit, a line that mustn't be crossed, whether it be speed limits, parking restrictions or things like no drink zones.
Reminds me of a story about some council fining people for cigarette smoking in public, or maybe it was littering, and anger that they had these inspectors going around lurking to catch people as they dropped a cigarette or rubbish and instantly appear to fine them £70. A nice little earner for the council perhaps, and the amount might seem excessive, but my overwhelming reaction was that people were not supposed to be littering (or smoking - as I say I cannot recall all the details), that was clearly signposted too, and so what exactly was wrong with the council and inspectors being efficient at their job?
Some of the anti semitism I encounter from people claiming to be liberal astounds me
Something we agree on
It is both astounding and a very ugly development. Those so-called "liberals" should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
For anyone interested in historical parallels it is worth reading the chapter in Paul Berman's book "Terror and Liberalism" on how some French socialists ended up in bed with anti-Semites in the 1930s and 1940s.
Socialists and Liberals are different, aren't they?
They can be. But not necessarily. And the Berman book was about precisely how liberalism ended up in a cul de sac where by misunderstanding its own principles it ended up on the side of fascists. I don't have the relevant chapter in front of me otherwise I would get out a key quote. But it - and the whole book really - is very well worth reading.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The aged Tory membership kept on electing right-wing losers like IDS for years until the penny dropped and they stopped banging their collective heads on the wall and went for an electable liberal moderniser like Cameron. The same will happen to Labour once the hard-left have been given enough rope to hang themselves. It will take one more GE though could come sooner.
Nope. The aged Tory membership only once elected a loser like IDS and learnt from it.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
I don't think members chose Corbyn because he is on the far left. They chose him because they felt - a la Nick Palmer - that he was polite, consensual, anti-spin, to the left of the other three candidates and prepared to build a big tent. That none of that is really true (though he may be polite to your face) is besides the point. They projected. And like Nick, they chose to ignore or disregard his 30 years of cosying up to apologists for and advocates of terrorism, the subjugation of women and the killing of homosexuals. They voted in reaction to defeat and in disgust at triangulation. They wanted a Labour party that stands for something; one that made them feel good about themselves. At some stage, for many of them that will no longer be enough. They will want to win again. The far left's challenge is to seize as much control as possible before that moment comes.
Want to know why Trident is such a big issue even though it is going to be introduced and there is nothing that labour can do to stop it? Once party policy is officially to oppose Trident it makes it nigh on impossible for someone who is pro-Trident to stand for the leadership. That rules out the likes of Dan Jarvis, Chukka etc.
I was hoping that Corbyn would be good for the party in that I thought that the Labour party of Brown and Miliband was unelectable, out of touch and lightweight. I thought that Corbyn might destroy Labour, but only enough to clear the way for a Labour party that might be electable. Clearly, I was wrong.
The problem with the current Labour party leadership isn't necessarily its policies but their cack-handedness in presentation, e.g. the reshuffle this week and anonymous inconsistent off-the-record briefings. However, they are still finding their way and judgement should be withheld until after the various elections in May 2016.
In my opinion, Cameron is just as much a threat to national security as Corbyn, e.g. in his meddling in the Middle East quagmire and his overt support and sympathy for: a) the barbaric islamic state that brutally executed 47 people a few days ago, and which is currently conducting a terror campaign in the Yemen and fomenting terrorism and Islamic extremism throughout the world; and b) Turkey, as a NATO state and possible future EU member.
Corbyn is far more circumspect about such "liberal" interventionism, e.g. in Syria.
That awkward moment when Trump doesn't know Paris isn't in Germany.
@realDonaldTrump: Man shot inside Paris police station. Just announced that terror threat is at highest level. Germany is a total mess-big crime. GET SMART!
The GET SMART bit at the end just makes it worse.
That awkward moment when neither TSE or FrancisUrguhart can properly read a tweet.
Almost as awkward as the Lucky Guy one which can't spell Urquhart
Your phrase doesn't make sense. You appear to be referring to a moment that is unable to spell. 'Almost as awkward as the Lucky Guy one where he showed he can't spell Urquhart' would be one suggestion.
I'd offer you a spade but you dig a pretty big hole without one..
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
I don't think members chose Corbyn because he is on the far left. They chose him because they felt - a la Nick Palmer - that he was polite, consensual, anti-spin, to the left of the other three candidates and prepared to build a big tent. That none of that is really true (though he may be polite to your face) is besides the point. They projected. And like Nick, they chose to ignore or disregard his 30 years of cosying up to apologists for and advocates of terrorism, the subjugation of women and the killing of homosexuals. They voted in reaction to defeat and in disgust at triangulation. They wanted a Labour party that stands for something; one that made them feel good about themselves. At some stage, for many of them that will no longer be enough. They will want to win again. The far left's challenge is to seize as much control as possible before that moment comes.
Want to know why Trident is such a big issue even though it is going to be introduced and there is nothing that labour can do to stop it? Once party policy is officially to oppose Trident it makes it nigh on impossible for someone who is pro-Trident to stand for the leadership. That rules out the likes of Dan Jarvis, Chukka etc.
I was hoping that Corbyn would be good for the party in that I thought that the Labour party of Brown and Miliband was unelectable, out of touch and lightweight. I thought that Corbyn might destroy Labour, but only enough to clear the way for a Labour party that might be electable. Clearly, I was wrong.
As sudden as his impact has been, the reversal may be just as dramatic and, possibly, effective. Likely? Who knows. But possible.
I don't I'm afraid. There was a repetitive nastiness about him which made some threads nigh-on unbearable. And when he commented on things where I had direct actual knowledge it was obvious he didn't know what he was talking about. So I wonder about the rest.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The Labour party electorate is angry, alienated from the rest of public opinion and likes a clear message that validates their prejudices. But as a whole the membership are not card-carrying Trot entryists and the members are open to being led by someone well to the right of Jeremy Corbyn who can inspire them with a positive message. His victory was in large part down to the uninspiring alternatives presented to them.
Enough of the members will eventually allow themselves to see where Jeremy Corbyn is failing (even if they blame his failure on the media). If a constructive alternative is found, they may desert him surprisingly quickly if he shows no signs of getting his act together.
A careful reading of Nick Palmer's posts is very instructive.
I stand by my prediction of last week that he'll see the year out but I'm less confident about it than I was a week ago when I made it.
The only difficulty with that is that as every week like this one wears on - the 'moderates' continue to leave the party - ensuring that the Trot entryist section grows in influence. Yes, they might come back as 3quid voters in the event of an inspiring choice to vote for - but it is hard to see the constructive alternative in the current PLP
Although I am currently in the blue corner whilst Corbyn is around someone like Dan Jarvis would give Osborne a very good run for his money. There seems to be a great deal of complacency among longterm PB tories and it has become a bit of a self-congratulatory echo-chamber since May. .
I don't I'm afraid. There was a repetitive nastiness about him which made some threads nigh-on unbearable. And when he commented on things where I had direct actual knowledge it was obvious he didn't know what he was talking about. So I wonder about the rest.
Agreed. I remember David Herdson describing him as a "cancer" on this site, and he was right.
Aside from whether it was or wasn't young Syrian or North African men doing the assault, I'd suggest the German Police and authorities should be in serious trouble for not dealing with the incidents in a timely and robust manner.
Not to let the police off the hook entirely, I would suggest that Cologne police have probably have little experience of dealing with these kind of issues.
When Germany was last invaded from the East, by the Red Army, there was a rape epidemic. I'm not surprised to see the latest wave of barbaric invaders behaving similarly.
"For the past five years, Reker has been responsible for running refugee services in Cologne, Germany’s fourth-largest city with 980,000 inhabitants.
Tasked with accommodating asylum seekers from Syria and other war zones, she has housed them in sports halls, former commercial spaces and other sites, and has called for their social integration."
I don't think members chose Corbyn because he is on the far left. They chose him because they felt - a la Nick Palmer - that he was polite, consensual, anti-spin, to the left of the other three candidates and prepared to build a big tent. That none of that is really true (though he may be polite to your face) is besides the point.
If his opponents had used the terrorist sympathy, unilateral disarmament arguments during the leadership campaign we might not be where we are. They were naive.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
I don't think members chose Corbyn because he is on the far left. They chose him because they felt - a la Nick Palmer - that he was polite, consensual, anti-spin, to the left of the other three candidates and prepared to build a big tent. That none of that is really true (though he may be polite to your face) is besides the point. They projected. And like Nick, they chose to ignore or disregard his 30 years of cosying up to apologists for and advocates of terrorism, the subjugation of women and the killing of homosexuals. They voted in reaction to defeat and in disgust at triangulation. They wanted a Labour party that stands for something; one that made them feel good about themselves. At some stage, for many of them that will no longer be enough. They will want to win again. The far left's challenge is to seize as much control as possible before that moment comes.
Want to know why Trident is such a big issue even though it is going to be introduced and there is nothing that labour can do to stop it? Once party policy is officially to oppose Trident it makes it nigh on impossible for someone who is pro-Trident to stand for the leadership. That rules out the likes of Dan Jarvis, Chukka etc.
Yes. They forgot that politics is trying to achieve the best outcome possible, not the best possible outcome.
Outlining a set of best possible outcomes feels real good, though. And as you say Lab was battered and bruised and needed a bit of feelgood action.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The Labour party electorate is angry, alienated from the rest of public opinion and likes a clear message that validates their prejudices. But as a whole the membership are not card-carrying Trot entryists and the members are open to being led by someone well to the right of Jeremy Corbyn who can inspire them with a positive message. His victory was in large part down to the uninspiring alternatives presented to them.
Enough of the members will eventually allow themselves to see where Jeremy Corbyn is failing (even if they blame his failure on the media). If a constructive alternative is found, they may desert him surprisingly quickly if he shows no signs of getting his act together.
A careful reading of Nick Palmer's posts is very instructive.
I stand by my prediction of last week that he'll see the year out but I'm less confident about it than I was a week ago when I made it.
The only difficulty with that is that as every week like this one wears on - the 'moderates' continue to leave the party - ensuring that the Trot entryist section grows in influence. Yes, they might come back as 3quid voters in the event of an inspiring choice to vote for - but it is hard to see the constructive alternative in the current PLP
Although I am currently in the blue corner whilst Corbyn is around someone like Dan Jarvis would give Osborne a very good run for his money. There seems to be a great deal of complacency among longterm PB tories and it has become a bit of a self-congratulatory echo-chamber since May. .
Well they did win and the afterglow is still there. It will wear off, this year probably.
You could well be right about Jarvis though I think the chances of him leading Labour in this Parliament are very low.
I don't I'm afraid. There was a repetitive nastiness about him which made some threads nigh-on unbearable. And when he commented on things where I had direct actual knowledge it was obvious he didn't know what he was talking about. So I wonder about the rest.
He did exhibit more nastiness to females than males. But it seems normal behaviour for socialists.
''Exactly! Whereas having a machine send a fixed penalty notice to a driver is on the other hand very easy.''
Such b8llocks. There are certain crimes that are prosecuted with energy and zeal by the police. For example whether Katie Hopkins has offended anyone (interviewed under caution). Whether someone might be doing a few extra miles an hour on certain stretches of road. Or whether locals wanting to blow the whistle on Rotherham rapists were disturbing community relations.
You just don't want to acknowledge that the rule of law in Britain has gone out of the window to be replaced by policing by the prevailing political priorities of our day.
Woman fined £100 for pausing to hug her father: Mother-of-two gets a ticket after stopping for 13 seconds outside an airport as she picked up her 70-year-old dad
Add Tyson Fury being investigated for his (unpleasant) comments.
What's the issue with the woman getting fined for stopping where she shouldn't stop? It does seem excessive for 13 seconds, but the zone is clearly signposted, according to the Mail she would have passed around 20 such signs. There just has to be a limit, a line that mustn't be crossed, whether it be speed limits, parking restrictions or things like no drink zones.
Reminds me of a story about some council fining people for cigarette smoking in public, or maybe it was littering, and anger that they had these inspectors going around lurking to catch people as they dropped a cigarette or rubbish and instantly appear to fine them £70. A nice little earner for the council perhaps, and the amount might seem excessive, but my overwhelming reaction was that people were not supposed to be littering (or smoking - as I say I cannot recall all the details), that was clearly signposted too, and so what exactly was wrong with the council and inspectors being efficient at their job?
It's part of a narrative that councils and police no longer see residents as customers, rather as an income stream from disobedience of numerous and increasingly petty rules. It started with parking deregulation, then fortnightly bin collections, increasing use of speed cameras etc. Yet when one has cause to make a complaint with the council or police, the complaint is rarely dealt with to any level of satisfaction - see the comment about asking a man whose car was vandalised to go himself around local businesses asking if any of them have CCTV.
"Once party policy is officially to oppose Trident it makes it nigh on impossible for someone who is pro-Trident to stand for the leadership. That rules out the likes of Dan Jarvis, Chukka etc"
How does that work then, Mr Observer? If it were true then Corbyn could not have been able to stand for the leadership - he opposed, and still opposes, Labour Party policy on nuclear defence.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
Corbyn was far and away the best candidate in terms of energy and presentation and ideas during the leadership campaign. It seems quite possible although many of the regular members found that very appealing and even his far left dream attractive, if he is demonstrated to be an electoral disaster then, if presented with a new leadership campaign, they would again gravitate to the most energetic, positive candidate. That might be another lefty, but it could be someone else I would guess - a lot of fair weather socialists living the dream right now who would not find the same message as appealing from Diane Abbott. As indeed they did not 5 years ago.
I'm afraid your analysis is way off. The big failure lies on the part of the membership and ALL of the candidates to seek an honest explanation for the defeat. The electorate said to Miliband's Labour in 2015 - 'sorry but we're just not that into you'. Very very few members or MPS have seriously considered why that is - instead they have opted for the line of least resistance to their own left-wing fantasies about an ideal electorate yearning for the socialist millenium. They deserve Corbyn. There's really not much more to say.
Following on from my comment about the police probably not used to dealing with such incidents...
Amid the chaos, the crowd mocked officers - who were attacked with fireworks and bottles as they tried to get control of the violent crowd.
One officer told German newspaper Bild that the migrants, one million of whom Germany welcomed last year with open arms, offering a safe, new home, said he hadn't seen anything like it in almost 30 years with the force.
'The very high number of migrants was striking,' he said. 'The forces met a level disrespect, I have not seen in 29 years of service.'
I think the last bit is really telling. I don't think the German plod are used to large scale public disrespect. Having been to events in Germany, always been struck by just how well behaved people have been, in comparisons to ones of similar size / type here in the UK.
I know they obviously had the issues with football holligans, but I presume they expect the issues in that context, not people enjoying New Year. I think on the flip side, UK forces haven't had to deal with really had football holliganism here for 20+ years, and I would imagine they wouldn't do too well if out of nowhere we got 80's style outbreak at a premier league game.
I think the idea of a stitch up by MPs is a non-starter, all of these new activists they have won't be very helpful come election time when doors need to knocked and leaflets dropped if they go down that route.
No, the only way to do it is for MPs to begin getting moderate people back on board and to convince moderates that without a reasonable centre-left voice the nation will be left to Tory domination and the only way to avoid that is to join the party and begin challenging the extreme-left dogma of Corbyn and his acolytes.
Without shifting the membership back towards the centre any kind of coup against Corbyn will amount to nothing. It would be better for Labour MPs to take their time, get their pieces in place, let Corbyn take the hit of multiple election losses at the locals to weaken him, start talking up one of Umuna, Hunt or Creasy and get Watson to resign the day after another battering at the local and EU elections in 2019.
That is the way to do it. But I have just been talking to a losing Labour candidate at this year's election and she told me in clear terms that (a) if she were in a marginal seat, she would not vote Labour; (b) when she was very recently in a rematch debate with her Tory opponent, now an MP of course, she found herself agreeing with quite a lot of what he said on security issues; (c) she thought Benn should have resigned; and (d) she was half-jokingly and half-despairingly saying that the Corbynistas should call themselves something else and people like us should retake the Labour party. But even she has got so fed up with what has been going on, the abuse and the misogyny that she is taking up a job offer outside the UK.
The poisonous atmosphere within Labour is driving - is intended to drive - the moderates away so that they don't do what you suggest but give up, lose heart etc. Why would the likes of SO join Labour now? Why would he want to put up with the sort of nasty smeary abuse in the vain hope that eventually the SWPers and the Respect people and STWers go away? Look at how hard it was to winkle Militant out. People have lives to lead. There's only so much time even committed Labour people have to stop let alone reverse what is going on. Anyone who isn't committed is just walking away.
The current and previous British governments have been "cosying up to apologists for and advocates of terrorism, the subjugation of women and the killing of homosexuals" in their support for and friendship with the criminal Saudi regime and its Gulf satrapies. Corbyn is no more guilty than Cameron, and in my opinion less so.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The aged Tory membership kept on electing right-wing losers like IDS for years until the penny dropped and they stopped banging their collective heads on the wall and went for an electable liberal moderniser like Cameron. The same will happen to Labour once the hard-left have been given enough rope to hang themselves. It will take one more GE though could come sooner.
Nope. The aged Tory membership only once elected a loser like IDS and learnt from it.
I was 19 when I voted for IDS. Clarke ran an appalling campaign and would have been a dreadful leader.
I don't regret my choice. I voted for Cameron in 2005.
Want to know why Trident is such a big issue even though it is going to be introduced and there is nothing that labour can do to stop it? Once party policy is officially to oppose Trident it makes it nigh on impossible for someone who is pro-Trident to stand for the leadership. That rules out the likes of Dan Jarvis, Chukka etc.
Assuming nothing does change dramatically then it seems certain the terrorist-sympathiser/weak-on-defence charge is going to stick with Labour. In which case they will have some serious difficulty in shifting it. At some point that may crystallise into a single totemic issue such as the nuclear deterrent. Re-accepting it could be the Clause 4 of 2028.
That's if public opinion doesn't go unilateralist in the meantime.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The aged Tory membership kept on electing right-wing losers like IDS for years until the penny dropped and they stopped banging their collective heads on the wall and went for an electable liberal moderniser like Cameron. The same will happen to Labour once the hard-left have been given enough rope to hang themselves. It will take one more GE though could come sooner.
Nope. The aged Tory membership only once elected a loser like IDS and learnt from it.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The aged Tory membership kept on electing right-wing losers like IDS for years until the penny dropped and they stopped banging their collective heads on the wall and went for an electable liberal moderniser like Cameron. The same will happen to Labour once the hard-left have been given enough rope to hang themselves. It will take one more GE though could come sooner.
Nope. The aged Tory membership only once elected a loser like IDS and learnt from it.
"Once party policy is officially to oppose Trident it makes it nigh on impossible for someone who is pro-Trident to stand for the leadership. That rules out the likes of Dan Jarvis, Chukka etc"
How does that work then, Mr Observer? If it were true then Corbyn could not have been able to stand for the leadership - he opposed, and still opposes, Labour Party policy on nuclear defence.
Because the pro-Trident policy is from the head and the anti one from the heart? The anti policy would be defended with passion and fury once it was in place.
I don't I'm afraid. There was a repetitive nastiness about him which made some threads nigh-on unbearable. And when he commented on things where I had direct actual knowledge it was obvious he didn't know what he was talking about. So I wonder about the rest.
Agreed. I remember David Herdson describing him as a "cancer" on this site, and he was right.
Thirded. He specialised in highly personalised and unsubstantiated smears.
"Once party policy is officially to oppose Trident it makes it nigh on impossible for someone who is pro-Trident to stand for the leadership. That rules out the likes of Dan Jarvis, Chukka etc"
How does that work then, Mr Observer? If it were true then Corbyn could not have been able to stand for the leadership - he opposed, and still opposes, Labour Party policy on nuclear defence.
The people opposed to it are much more motivated than the people in favour. Once not renewing Trident becomes official Labour policy it will be almost impossible to shift as CND types will flock to the party from the Greens and SWP, further cementing the loons at a local party level, so when it comes to selection time they will pick loons to represent them.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The aged Tory membership kept on electing right-wing losers like IDS for years until the penny dropped and they stopped banging their collective heads on the wall and went for an electable liberal moderniser like Cameron. The same will happen to Labour once the hard-left have been given enough rope to hang themselves. It will take one more GE though could come sooner.
Nope. The aged Tory membership only once elected a loser like IDS and learnt from it.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The aged Tory membership kept on electing right-wing losers like IDS for years until the penny dropped and they stopped banging their collective heads on the wall and went for an electable liberal moderniser like Cameron. The same will happen to Labour once the hard-left have been given enough rope to hang themselves. It will take one more GE though could come sooner.
Nope. The aged Tory membership only once elected a loser like IDS and learnt from it.
I was 19 when I voted for IDS. Clarke ran an appalling campaign and would have been a dreadful leader.
I don't regret my choice. I voted for Cameron in 2005.
You were handed a duff choice by the MPs really.
As a Blairite Labour voter at the time, I thought you were taking the piss out of the electorate to propose IDS as PM, but in all honesty it did work out for you better than a Clarke leadership would have done, I think.
Mind you, it's a bloody good job your MPs got their act together in 2003.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The aged Tory membership kept on electing right-wing losers like IDS for years until the penny dropped and they stopped banging their collective heads on the wall and went for an electable liberal moderniser like Cameron. The same will happen to Labour once the hard-left have been given enough rope to hang themselves. It will take one more GE though could come sooner.
Nope. The aged Tory membership only once elected a loser like IDS and learnt from it.
Although I accept that the situation may be different in your typical London Labour branch, in my (Northern) CLP people are generally not that diehard about being anti-Trident. Some of us (myself included) are actively in favour of Trident, and others are mildly against it but willing to compromise on that and focus on more "important" issues.
It was austerity and especially welfare that drove the Corbyn surge here (though as I say, I accept London Labour might be more motivated by foreign/defence).
I don't I'm afraid. There was a repetitive nastiness about him which made some threads nigh-on unbearable. And when he commented on things where I had direct actual knowledge it was obvious he didn't know what he was talking about. So I wonder about the rest.
Agreed. I remember David Herdson describing him as a "cancer" on this site, and he was right.
Disagreed. Tim was the grit in the oyster that made the pearl. He's sorely missed.
Want to know why Trident is such a big issue even though it is going to be introduced and there is nothing that labour can do to stop it? Once party policy is officially to oppose Trident it makes it nigh on impossible for someone who is pro-Trident to stand for the leadership. That rules out the likes of Dan Jarvis, Chukka etc.
Assuming nothing does change dramatically then it seems certain the terrorist-sympathiser/weak-on-defence charge is going to stick with Labour. In which case they will have some serious difficulty in shifting it. At some point that may crystallise into a single totemic issue such as the nuclear deterrent. Re-accepting it could be the Clause 4 of 2028.
That's if public opinion doesn't go unilateralist in the meantime.
Or the Conservative Party doesn't get rid of Trident on it own. Impossible, some might say, but look at how they pilloried Kinnock's proposed defence cuts in 1992 and have since reduced the armed forces below anything Kinnock was suggesting.
My thanks to you, and to Mssrs Max and Wanderer, for answering my question about Why Labour's nuclear policy would be important in the choice of the next leader. I am not only better informed by wiser as a result.
Although I accept that the situation may be different in your typical London Labour branch, in my (Northern) CLP people are generally not that diehard about being anti-Trident. Some of us (myself included) are actively in favour of Trident, and others are mildly against it but willing to compromise on that and focus on more "important" issues.
I meant people in general rather than Labour people. CND types are pretty tightly wound when it comes to this stuff. If official Labour policy adopts CND then they will join the party from the Greens and other leftist parties they are currently aligned with. Labour adopting CND would be a great victory for them, one they won't let go of it easily.
I don't I'm afraid. There was a repetitive nastiness about him which made some threads nigh-on unbearable. And when he commented on things where I had direct actual knowledge it was obvious he didn't know what he was talking about. So I wonder about the rest.
Agreed. I remember David Herdson describing him as a "cancer" on this site, and he was right.
Disagreed. Tim was the grit in the oyster that made the pearl. He's sorely missed.
Not by me he isn't. A nasty, bully who contributed little of value but drove away people who did.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The aged Tory membership kept on electing right-wing losers like IDS for years until the penny dropped and they stopped banging their collective heads on the wall and went for an electable liberal moderniser like Cameron. The same will happen to Labour once the hard-left have been given enough rope to hang themselves. It will take one more GE though could come sooner.
Nope. The aged Tory membership only once elected a loser like IDS and learnt from it.
I was 19 when I voted for IDS. Clarke ran an appalling campaign and would have been a dreadful leader.
I don't regret my choice. I voted for Cameron in 2005.
You were handed a duff choice by the MPs really.
As a Blairite Labour voter at the time, I thought you were taking the piss out of the electorate to propose IDS as PM, but in all honesty it did work out for you better than a Clarke leadership would have done, I think.
Mind you, it's a bloody good job your MPs got their act together in 2003.
I supported Portillo before he was knocked out.
I wanted to seriously consider Clarke but it was clear he held the views of the membership in contempt.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The aged Tory membership kept on electing right-wing losers like IDS for years until the penny dropped and they stopped banging their collective heads on the wall and went for an electable liberal moderniser like Cameron. The same will happen to Labour once the hard-left have been given enough rope to hang themselves. It will take one more GE though could come sooner.
Nope. The aged Tory membership only once elected a loser like IDS and learnt from it.
We had Hague that one time too.
That was the MPs.
True. Even IDS was the MPs, the membership would have voted for a donkey wearing a blue rosette against Clark. They actually did in the end. If it was Portillo vs IDS for the public vote I could have seen a Portillo victory.
I don't I'm afraid. There was a repetitive nastiness about him which made some threads nigh-on unbearable. And when he commented on things where I had direct actual knowledge it was obvious he didn't know what he was talking about. So I wonder about the rest.
Agreed. I remember David Herdson describing him as a "cancer" on this site, and he was right.
Disagreed. Tim was the grit in the oyster that made the pearl. He's sorely missed.
Think he prefers twitter as he can block those that call him up on his inaccuracies and lies.
I believe there are many in the Green Party who don't believe it is possible to reform & influence policy in the Labour Party, even with Corbyn in charge. If they go unilateralist the Greens become more and more irrelevant.
Comments
A taxi driver moaned to us about them. The police say they don't have the manpower. But the driver pointed out they have three thousand traffic wardens in the city centre....
Just get used to Europe's cities being a whole lot riskier to walk around.
Any takers?
Run that last one by me again, will you?
I read there were police by the van full there yesterday.....when 300 Cologne women organised a spontaneous protest.
The contempt the German establishment have for their own citizens really is quite breathtaking.
Considering all of the realistic alternatives to Osborne have been promoting a slower cut to the deficit to blame him for the inherited deficit not being cut faster is interesting to say the least.
The accounts of what has happened here though goes way beyond this. Most pickpockets want to get in and get out asap. They don't want you to know you have even been robbed. The reports coming from Germany are very different.
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
Ralf Jaeger, interior minister for North Rhine-Westphalia, said police had to "adjust" to the fact that groups of men had attacked women en masse.
Mr Jaeger also warned that anti-immigrant groups were trying to use the attacks to stir up hatred against refugees. "What happens on the right-wing platforms and in chatrooms is at least as awful as the acts of those assaulting the women," he said. "This is poisoning the climate of our society."
The police have to "adjust" apparently. What a terrible word to use. Interesting also he seems to equate hate speech with rape, sorry not even equate, it is "at least", so in fact could be worse than rape.
Enough of the members will eventually allow themselves to see where Jeremy Corbyn is failing (even if they blame his failure on the media). If a constructive alternative is found, they may desert him surprisingly quickly if he shows no signs of getting his act together.
A careful reading of Nick Palmer's posts is very instructive.
I stand by my prediction of last week that he'll see the year out but I'm less confident about it than I was a week ago when I made it.
You are also forgetting about the Unions. If McCluskey is onboard with a compromise candidate it will be easier to topple Corbyn
Jaeger's comments really are utterly gobsmacking.
We'll see what happens to the accused asylum seekers in Germany. Ralf Jaeger's comments remain despicable. The national interior minister seems to have a more sensible view (I forget his precise comments).
And these are the kinds of people who will be running the UK pretty soon if we vote 'remain'
It's also striking that the two UK opt-outs (Schengen and the eurozone) appear wiser and wiser.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/07/cologne-police-struggled-to-gain-control-of-mass-sexual-assaults-new-years-eve
It isn't just the powerful this applies to though. Get burgled and the response is all but blaming the victim rather than the perpertrator as far as what should be done to improve security.
A few years back I had paint thrown on my car at night in a car park behind work and was basically told to go see if any neighbouring businesses had CCTV footage of it happening. If I could solve the case for them they'd investigate.
The fools that decided to let these people in are the ones whose heads should be on the block.
Ever get the feeling of (him) being cheated? attrib Johnny Rotten.
1. Does being a filthy lying scumbag come naturally to you, or do you have to work hard at it?
2. Will you apologise to those women you smeared, including the PM's wife?
3. Given your instrumental role in hounding from senior roles those who might have posed a threat to Brown, are you happy with what the Labour Party has now become?
4. Are there any circumstances where the ends might not justify the means?
5. For how much longer will have to work your penance at a Christian charity for low wages, to atone for your sins working for Gordon Brown?
Shades of the Roman Empire's brilliant plan to invite in barbarians to help provide manpower for the army.
Such b8llocks. There are certain crimes that are prosecuted with energy and zeal by the police. For example whether Katie Hopkins has offended anyone (interviewed under caution). Whether someone might be doing a few extra miles an hour on certain stretches of road. Or whether locals wanting to blow the whistle on Rotherham rapists were disturbing community relations.
You just don't want to acknowledge that the rule of law in Britain has gone out of the window to be replaced by policing by the prevailing political priorities of our day.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3388550/Family-fined-stopping-outside-airport-just-13-seconds-pick-grandfather.html
Add Tyson Fury being investigated for his (unpleasant) comments.
And the issue isn't politics it is laziness. Having a camera record a speed means there is no disputing that the crime was committed making it an easy prosecution. Especially if done by post with a fixed penalty notice.
Mr. F, Maximinus Thrax probably didn't do much to quell that view...
It does seem excessive for 13 seconds, but the zone is clearly signposted, according to the Mail she would have passed around 20 such signs.
There just has to be a limit, a line that mustn't be crossed, whether it be speed limits, parking restrictions or things like no drink zones.
It seems to me though, as an outsider, that a lot of Labour's rejoiners can't move on.
Want to know why Trident is such a big issue even though it is going to be introduced and there is nothing that labour can do to stop it? Once party policy is officially to oppose Trident it makes it nigh on impossible for someone who is pro-Trident to stand for the leadership. That rules out the likes of Dan Jarvis, Chukka etc.
In my opinion, Cameron is just as much a threat to national security as Corbyn, e.g. in his meddling in the Middle East quagmire and his overt support and sympathy for:
a) the barbaric islamic state that brutally executed 47 people a few days ago, and which is currently conducting a terror campaign in the Yemen and fomenting terrorism and Islamic extremism throughout the world; and
b) Turkey, as a NATO state and possible future EU member.
Corbyn is far more circumspect about such "liberal" interventionism, e.g. in Syria.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/19/stabbed-mayor-cologne-elected-pro-refugee
"For the past five years, Reker has been responsible for running refugee services in Cologne, Germany’s fourth-largest city with 980,000 inhabitants.
Tasked with accommodating asylum seekers from Syria and other war zones, she has housed them in sports halls, former commercial spaces and other sites, and has called for their social integration."
Is it too much to assume they won't be next time?
Outlining a set of best possible outcomes feels real good, though. And as you say Lab was battered and bruised and needed a bit of feelgood action.
You could well be right about Jarvis though I think the chances of him leading Labour in this Parliament are very low.
"Once party policy is officially to oppose Trident it makes it nigh on impossible for someone who is pro-Trident to stand for the leadership. That rules out the likes of Dan Jarvis, Chukka etc"
How does that work then, Mr Observer? If it were true then Corbyn could not have been able to stand for the leadership - he opposed, and still opposes, Labour Party policy on nuclear defence.
Amid the chaos, the crowd mocked officers - who were attacked with fireworks and bottles as they tried to get control of the violent crowd.
One officer told German newspaper Bild that the migrants, one million of whom Germany welcomed last year with open arms, offering a safe, new home, said he hadn't seen anything like it in almost 30 years with the force.
'The very high number of migrants was striking,' he said. 'The forces met a level disrespect, I have not seen in 29 years of service.'
I think the last bit is really telling. I don't think the German plod are used to large scale public disrespect. Having been to events in Germany, always been struck by just how well behaved people have been, in comparisons to ones of similar size / type here in the UK.
I know they obviously had the issues with football holligans, but I presume they expect the issues in that context, not people enjoying New Year. I think on the flip side, UK forces haven't had to deal with really had football holliganism here for 20+ years, and I would imagine they wouldn't do too well if out of nowhere we got 80's style outbreak at a premier league game.
The poisonous atmosphere within Labour is driving - is intended to drive - the moderates away so that they don't do what you suggest but give up, lose heart etc. Why would the likes of SO join Labour now? Why would he want to put up with the sort of nasty smeary abuse in the vain hope that eventually the SWPers and the Respect people and STWers go away? Look at how hard it was to winkle Militant out. People have lives to lead. There's only so much time even committed Labour people have to stop let alone reverse what is going on. Anyone who isn't committed is just walking away.
The current and previous British governments have been "cosying up to apologists for and advocates of terrorism, the subjugation of women and the killing of homosexuals" in their support for and friendship with the criminal Saudi regime and its Gulf satrapies. Corbyn is no more guilty than Cameron, and in my opinion less so.
I don't regret my choice. I voted for Cameron in 2005.
That's if public opinion doesn't go unilateralist in the meantime.
IDS never lost a general election as leader!!!
This site is well rid.
As a Blairite Labour voter at the time, I thought you were taking the piss out of the electorate to propose IDS as PM, but in all honesty it did work out for you better than a Clarke leadership would have done, I think.
Mind you, it's a bloody good job your MPs got their act together in 2003.
It was austerity and especially welfare that drove the Corbyn surge here (though as I say, I accept London Labour might be more motivated by foreign/defence).
Tim was the grit in the oyster that made the pearl.
He's sorely missed.
My thanks to you, and to Mssrs Max and Wanderer, for answering my question about Why Labour's nuclear policy would be important in the choice of the next leader. I am not only better informed by wiser as a result.
I wanted to seriously consider Clarke but it was clear he held the views of the membership in contempt.