Talking of posters who no longer post, I don't log on as much as I used to, but the site appears to me to be missing a few regulars....Neil, iSam, Socrates, among others. I was going to say I missed Antifrank, but now now he's posting unmasked!
I don't I'm afraid. There was a repetitive nastiness about him which made some threads nigh-on unbearable. And when he commented on things where I had direct actual knowledge it was obvious he didn't know what he was talking about. So I wonder about the rest.
Agreed. I remember David Herdson describing him as a "cancer" on this site, and he was right.
Thirded. He specialised in highly personalised and unsubstantiated smears.
This site is well rid.
It's pretty apt that we're discussing tim on a Damian McBride thread.
I don't I'm afraid. There was a repetitive nastiness about him which made some threads nigh-on unbearable. And when he commented on things where I had direct actual knowledge it was obvious he didn't know what he was talking about. So I wonder about the rest.
Agreed. I remember David Herdson describing him as a "cancer" on this site, and he was right.
Disagreed. Tim was the grit in the oyster that made the pearl. He's sorely missed.
Not by me he isn't. A nasty, bully who contributed little of value but drove away people who did.
OK. The scouse git in the oyster. But I miss the old fraud.
Talking of posters who no longer post, I don't log on as much as I used to, but the site appears to me to be missing a few regulars....Neil, iSam, Socrates, among others. I was going to say I missed Antifrank, but now now he's posting unmasked!
May I say, without wishing to cause you embarrassment, that your frequent absences have been noted and you have been missed. Might we tempt you back into becoming a regular contributor?
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The aged Tory membership kept on electing right-wing losers like IDS for years until the penny dropped and they stopped banging their collective heads on the wall and went for an electable liberal moderniser like Cameron. The same will happen to Labour once the hard-left have been given enough rope to hang themselves. It will take one more GE though could come sooner.
Nope. The aged Tory membership only once elected a loser like IDS and learnt from it.
We had Hague that one time too.
That was the MPs.
True. Even IDS was the MPs, the membership would have voted for a donkey wearing a blue rosette against Clark. They actually did in the end. If it was Portillo vs IDS for the public vote I could have seen a Portillo victory.
Notwithstanding what was known at the time about Clarke's left leanings, I felt even more vindicated in my vote by Clarke's behaviour in government from 2010-2014.
Although I accept that the situation may be different in your typical London Labour branch, in my (Northern) CLP people are generally not that diehard about being anti-Trident. Some of us (myself included) are actively in favour of Trident, and others are mildly against it but willing to compromise on that and focus on more "important" issues.
It was austerity and especially welfare that drove the Corbyn surge here (though as I say, I accept London Labour might be more motivated by foreign/defence).
That's interesting. I have found, over the years, that one of the fastest ways to ruin an evening is to disagree with a unilateralist.
(Possibly I'm overly influenced by my partner, who was at Greenham. I have learnt to never ever think, let alone talk, about nuclear weapons when she is in the house. That's unless I want her to impersonate one detonating in the kitchen.)
Talking of posters who no longer post, I don't log on as much as I used to, but the site appears to me to be missing a few regulars....Neil, iSam, Socrates, among others. I was going to say I missed Antifrank, but now now he's posting unmasked!
May I say, without wishing to cause you embarrassment, that your frequent absences have been noted and you have been missed. Might we tempt you back into becoming a regular contributor?
It's good to be missed, Hurst! With the sword of redundancy swinging ever lower above my head, I might have a lot of time on my hands!
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The aged Tory membership kept on electing right-wing losers like IDS for years until the penny dropped and they stopped banging their collective heads on the wall and went for an electable liberal moderniser like Cameron. The same will happen to Labour once the hard-left have been given enough rope to hang themselves. It will take one more GE though could come sooner.
Nope. The aged Tory membership only once elected a loser like IDS and learnt from it.
We had Hague that one time too.
That was the MPs.
True. Even IDS was the MPs, the membership would have voted for a donkey wearing a blue rosette against Clark. They actually did in the end. If it was Portillo vs IDS for the public vote I could have seen a Portillo victory.
Notwithstanding what was known at the time about Clarke's left leanings, I felt even more vindicated in my vote by Clarke's behaviour in government from 2010-2014.
He is one of those mad people who would still take us into the Euro iirc.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The aged Tory membership kept on electing right-wing losers like IDS for years until the penny dropped and they stopped banging their collective heads on the wall and went for an electable liberal moderniser like Cameron. The same will happen to Labour once the hard-left have been given enough rope to hang themselves. It will take one more GE though could come sooner.
Nope. The aged Tory membership only once elected a loser like IDS and learnt from it.
Sorry I was forgetting that Hague and Howard stormed to victory.
Want to know why Trident is such a big issue even though it is going to be introduced and there is nothing that labour can do to stop it? Once party policy is officially to oppose Trident it makes it nigh on impossible for someone who is pro-Trident to stand for the leadership. That rules out the likes of Dan Jarvis, Chukka etc.
Assuming nothing does change dramatically then it seems certain the terrorist-sympathiser/weak-on-defence charge is going to stick with Labour. In which case they will have some serious difficulty in shifting it. At some point that may crystallise into a single totemic issue such as the nuclear deterrent. Re-accepting it could be the Clause 4 of 2028.
That's if public opinion doesn't go unilateralist in the meantime.
Or the Conservative Party doesn't get rid of Trident on it own. Impossible, some might say, but look at how they pilloried Kinnock's proposed defence cuts in 1992 and have since reduced the armed forces below anything Kinnock was suggesting.
My thanks to you, and to Mssrs Max and Wanderer, for answering my question about Why Labour's nuclear policy would be important in the choice of the next leader. I am not only better informed by wiser as a result.
Well you should probably prefer @Danny565's view over mine. He is a Labour member after all.
Thanks to you, by the way, for your comments on the stealth-cutting of defence. It's not something I'd appreciated the extent of.
Talking of posters who no longer post, I don't log on as much as I used to, but the site appears to me to be missing a few regulars....Neil, iSam, Socrates, among others. I was going to say I missed Antifrank, but now now he's posting unmasked!
May I say, without wishing to cause you embarrassment, that your frequent absences have been noted and you have been missed. Might we tempt you back into becoming a regular contributor?
It's good to be missed, Hurst! With the sword of redundancy swinging ever lower above my head, I might have a lot of time on my hands!
Crikey! Have not your brigade sorted out their "restructuring" yet? I should have thought five years might have been long enough for the clowns in charge* to actually make a decision.
*I say "Clowns in charge" based on my experience of East and West Sussex brigades. Maybe your lot are better but somehow I doubt it.
Talking of posters who no longer post, I don't log on as much as I used to, but the site appears to me to be missing a few regulars....Neil, iSam, Socrates, among others. I was going to say I missed Antifrank, but now now he's posting unmasked!
May I say, without wishing to cause you embarrassment, that your frequent absences have been noted and you have been missed. Might we tempt you back into becoming a regular contributor?
It's good to be missed, Hurst! With the sword of redundancy swinging ever lower above my head, I might have a lot of time on my hands!
Seconded.
And I wish you luck and hope the redundancy sword misses you!
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The aged Tory membership kept on electing right-wing losers like IDS for years until the penny dropped and they stopped banging their collective heads on the wall and went for an electable liberal moderniser like Cameron. The same will happen to Labour once the hard-left have been given enough rope to hang themselves. It will take one more GE though could come sooner.
Nope. The aged Tory membership only once elected a loser like IDS and learnt from it.
Sorry I was forgetting that Hague and Howard stormed to victory.
Hague and Howard were elected by MPs, Hague over Clarke and Howard unopposed, members were not consulted
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The Labour party electorate is angry, alienated from the rest of public opinion and likes a clear message that validates their prejudices. But as a whole the membership are not card-carrying Trot entryists and the members are open to being led by someone well to the right of Jeremy Corbyn who can inspire them with a positive message. His victory was in large part down to the uninspiring alternatives presented to them.
Enough of the members will eventually allow themselves to see where Jeremy Corbyn is failing (even if they blame his failure on the media). If a constructive alternative is found, they may desert him surprisingly quickly if he shows no signs of getting his act together.
A careful reading of Nick Palmer's posts is very instructive.
I stand by my prediction of last week that he'll see the year out but I'm less confident about it than I was a week ago when I made it.
The only difficulty with that is that as every week like this one wears on - the 'moderates' continue to leave the party - ensuring that the Trot entryist section grows in influence. Yes, they might come back as 3quid voters in the event of an inspiring choice to vote for - but it is hard to see the constructive alternative in the current PLP
Although I am currently in the blue corner whilst Corbyn is around someone like Dan Jarvis would give Osborne a very good run for his money. There seems to be a great deal of complacency among longterm PB tories and it has become a bit of a self-congratulatory echo-chamber since May. .
Well they did win and the afterglow is still there. It will wear off, this year probably.
You could well be right about Jarvis though I think the chances of him leading Labour in this Parliament are very low.
I agree and expect it might take till the election after next. Those of us who normally reside on the moderate left need to let the hard left prove once and for all that they are unelectable, incompetent and clueless. It will happen and Labour will win again eventually. Both extremes have their moments in both the main parties and then common sense reasserts itself
Talking of posters who no longer post, I don't log on as much as I used to, but the site appears to me to be missing a few regulars....Neil, iSam, Socrates, among others. I was going to say I missed Antifrank, but now now he's posting unmasked!
May I say, without wishing to cause you embarrassment, that your frequent absences have been noted and you have been missed. Might we tempt you back into becoming a regular contributor?
It's good to be missed, Hurst! With the sword of redundancy swinging ever lower above my head, I might have a lot of time on my hands!
Crikey! Have not your brigade sorted out their "restructuring" yet? I should have thought five years might have been long enough for the clowns in charge* to actually make a decision.
*I say "Clowns in charge" based on my experience of East and West Sussex brigades. Maybe your lot are better but somehow I doubt it.
Ha, if only. It's a clusterfeck of the highest order. Apparently the deciding Fire Authority meeting is in February, but it looks like the Chief's proposed cuts will be voted out by the Labour Mayor, Labour councillors and the Lib Dems, then who the feck knows what will happen? Still, now the FBU are reaffilliated with Labour, surely I will be safe!
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The aged Tory membership kept on electing right-wing losers like IDS for years until the penny dropped and they stopped banging their collective heads on the wall and went for an electable liberal moderniser like Cameron. The same will happen to Labour once the hard-left have been given enough rope to hang themselves. It will take one more GE though could come sooner.
Nope. The aged Tory membership only once elected a loser like IDS and learnt from it.
We had Hague that one time too.
That was the MPs.
True. Even IDS was the MPs, the membership would have voted for a donkey wearing a blue rosette against Clark. They actually did in the end. If it was Portillo vs IDS for the public vote I could have seen a Portillo victory.
No way even Portillo's internal polls had him losing the membership to IDS
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The Labour party electorate is angry, alienated from the rest of public opinion and likes a clear message that validates their prejudices. But as a whole the membership are not card-carrying Trot entryists and the members are open to being led by someone well to the right of Jeremy Corbyn who can inspire them with a positive message. His victory was in large part down to the uninspiring alternatives presented to them.
snip.
The only difficulty with that is that as every week like this one wears on - the 'moderates' continue to leave the party - ensuring that the Trot entryist section grows in influence. Yes, they might come back as 3quid voters in the event of an inspiring choice to vote for - but it is hard to see the constructive alternative in the current PLP
Although I am currently in the blue corner whilst Corbyn is around someone like Dan Jarvis would give Osborne a very good run for his money. There seems to be a great deal of complacency among longterm PB tories and it has become a bit of a self-congratulatory echo-chamber since May. .
Well they did win and the afterglow is still there. It will wear off, this year probably.
You could well be right about Jarvis though I think the chances of him leading Labour in this Parliament are very low.
I agree and expect it might take till the election after next. Those of us who normally reside on the moderate left need to let the hard left prove once and for all that they are unelectable, incompetent and clueless. It will happen and Labour will win again eventually. Both extremes have their moments in both the main parties and then common sense reasserts itself
Unless it's terminal for Labour. The Liberals all but disappeared in 1920s and 1930s. It happens to big parties. A lot of voters are going to come to the conclusion that Labour has nothing to offer them. The sort of deep thinking they require to put a decent policy pitch for the 2020s isn't going to happen under Corbyn and Co.
Talking of posters who no longer post, I don't log on as much as I used to, but the site appears to me to be missing a few regulars....Neil, iSam, Socrates, among others. I was going to say I missed Antifrank, but now now he's posting unmasked!
May I say, without wishing to cause you embarrassment, that your frequent absences have been noted and you have been missed. Might we tempt you back into becoming a regular contributor?
It's good to be missed, Hurst! With the sword of redundancy swinging ever lower above my head, I might have a lot of time on my hands!
Crikey! Have not your brigade sorted out their "restructuring" yet? I should have thought five years might have been long enough for the clowns in charge* to actually make a decision.
*I say "Clowns in charge" based on my experience of East and West Sussex brigades. Maybe your lot are better but somehow I doubt it.
Ha, if only. It's a clusterfeck of the highest order. Apparently the deciding Fire Authority meeting is in February, but it looks like the Chief's proposed cuts will be voted out by the Labour Mayor, Labour councillors and the Lib Dems, then who the feck knows what will happen? Still, now the FBU are reaffilliated with Labour, surely I will be safe!
Well good luck with it, Old Chap, but as regards the FBU I would refer you to Psalm 146 V 3 & 4.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The Labour party electorate is angry, alienated from the rest of public opinion and likes a clear message that validates their
snip.
The only difficulty with that is that as every week like this one wears on - the 'moderates' continue to leave the party - ensuring that the Trot entryist section grows in influence. Yes, they might come back as 3quid voters in the event of an inspiring choice to vote for - but it is hard to see the constructive alternative in the current PLP
Although I am currently in the blue corner whilst Corbyn is around someone like Dan Jarvis would give Osborne a very good run for his money. There seems to be a great deal of complacency among longterm PB tories and it has become a bit of a self-congratulatory echo-chamber since May. .
Well they did win and the afterglow is still there. It will wear off, this year probably.
You could well be right about Jarvis though I think the chances of him leading Labour in this Parliament are very low.
I agree and expect it might take till the election after next. Those of us who normally reside on the moderate left need to let the hard left prove once and for all that they are unelectable, incompetent and clueless. It will happen and Labour will win again eventually. Both extremes have their moments in both the main parties and then common sense reasserts itself
Unless it's terminal for Labour. The Liberals all but disappeared in 1920s and 1930s. It happens to big parties. A lot of voters are going to come to the conclusion that Labour has nothing to offer them. The sort of deep thinking they require to put a decent policy pitch for the 2020s isn't going to happen under Corbyn and Co.
30% or so will always vote for a leftwing party, with the LDs virtually extinct and the Greens with just 1 MP Labour should survive outside Scotland
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The aged Tory membership kept on electing right-wing losers like IDS for years until the penny dropped and they stopped banging their collective heads on the wall and went for an electable liberal moderniser like Cameron. The same will happen to Labour once the hard-left have been given enough rope to hang themselves. It will take one more GE though could come sooner.
Nope. The aged Tory membership only once elected a loser like IDS and learnt from it.
Sorry I was forgetting that Hague and Howard stormed to victory.
Hague and Howard were elected by MPs, Hague over Clarke and Howard unopposed, members were not consulted
OK, I'll rephrase, the Tory Party chose a number of unelectablle losers over many years before they got the message that they needed to choose a liberal moderniser as a leader before before they could hope to get elected again. Labour will eventually do the same
30% or so will always vote for a leftwing party, ...
That has been true for recent times in as much as Labour has not dropped much below 30% since universal suffrage. Though whether in the days of massed organised Labour people thought they were voting for a left wing party is a moot point. However, past performance is no guarantee of future gains as they say and there is certainly no natural law that suggests Labour's base support will continue indefinitely.
Long periods (20 years plus) of government by a single party have happened before both in the UK and abroad and could happen here again.
Agree with McBride, give it another year or two and a lost by election to UKIP and 200+ MPs will nominate Benn making Corbyn's position untenable
But it isn't just down to the MPs who becomes leader, is it?
Even Labour's lawyers have said once a challenger gets nominated Corbyn will also need to get 35 nominations
But what is to stop Corbynistas getting the NEC to redefine this giving an existing Leader an automatic slot?
They would need enough NEC members to do so which at the moment Corbyn has not got and in any case with 200 plus MPs behind him Benn would still be leader of the parliamentary party and the official leader of the opposition even if the Corbynistas got his leadership reendorsed by the Trotskyist entryists who now comprise a majority of the Labour membership
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The aged Tory membership kept on electing right-wing losers like IDS for years until the penny dropped and they stopped banging their collective heads on the wall and went for an electable liberal moderniser like Cameron. The same will happen to Labour once the hard-left have been given enough rope to hang themselves. It will take one more GE though could come sooner.
Nope. The aged Tory membership only once elected a loser like IDS and learnt from it.
We had Hague that one time too.
That was the MPs.
True. Even IDS was the MPs, the membership would have voted for a donkey wearing a blue rosette against Clark. They actually did in the end. If it was Portillo vs IDS for the public vote I could have seen a Portillo victory.
Notwithstanding what was known at the time about Clarke's left leanings, I felt even more vindicated in my vote by Clarke's behaviour in government from 2010-2014.
Agree with McBride, give it another year or two and a lost by election to UKIP and 200+ MPs will nominate Benn making Corbyn's position untenable
But it isn't just down to the MPs who becomes leader, is it?
Even Labour's lawyers have said once a challenger gets nominated Corbyn will also need to get 35 nominations
But what is to stop Corbynistas getting the NEC to redefine this giving an existing Leader an automatic slot?
They would need enough NEC members to do so which at the moment Corbyn has not got and in any case with 200 plus MPs behind him Benn would still be leader of the parliamentary party and the official leader of the opposition even if the Corbynistas got his leadership reendorsed by the Trotskyist entryists who now comprise a majority of the Labour membership
Really? I thought Corbyn has a majority on the NEC.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The aged Tory membership kept on electing right-wing losers like IDS for years until the penny dropped and they stopped banging their collective heads on the wall and went for an electable liberal moderniser like Cameron. The same will happen to Labour once the hard-left have been given enough rope to hang themselves. It will take one more GE though could come sooner.
Nope. The aged Tory membership only once elected a loser like IDS and learnt from it.
Sorry I was forgetting that Hague and Howard stormed to victory.
Hague and Howard were elected by MPs, Hague over Clarke and Howard unopposed, members were not consulted
OK, I'll rephrase, the Tory Party chose a number of unelectablle losers over many years before they got the message that they needed to choose a liberal moderniser as a leader before before they could hope to get elected again. Labour will eventually do the same
Maybe but as with the Tories post IDS they will have to get rid of some of their extreme members first, some Tory members went to UKIP for example after IDS was ousted making it easier for Cameron to win in 2005
30% or so will always vote for a leftwing party, ...
That has been true for recent times in as much as Labour has not dropped much below 30% since universal suffrage. Though whether in the days of massed organised Labour people thought they were voting for a left wing party is a moot point. However, past performance is no guarantee of future gains as they say and there is certainly no natural law that suggests Labour's base support will continue indefinitely.
Long periods (20 years plus) of government by a single party have happened before both in the UK and abroad and could happen here again.
Indeed but there is no significant alternative on the left to Labour outside Scotland
Agree with McBride, give it another year or two and a lost by election to UKIP and 200+ MPs will nominate Benn making Corbyn's position untenable
But it isn't just down to the MPs who becomes leader, is it?
Even Labour's lawyers have said once a challenger gets nominated Corbyn will also need to get 35 nominations
But what is to stop Corbynistas getting the NEC to redefine this giving an existing Leader an automatic slot?
They would need enough NEC members to do so which at the moment Corbyn has not got and in any case with 200 plus MPs behind him Benn would still be leader of the parliamentary party and the official leader of the opposition even if the Corbynistas got his leadership reendorsed by the Trotskyist entryists who now comprise a majority of the Labour membership
Really? I thought Corbyn has a majority on the NEC.
There has been no clear evidence of this, it may be the case in a few years but I am not so sure now but as stated the leader of the opposition is the one who commands the second largest number of MPs and not Labour Party members
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The aged Tory membership kept on electing right-wing losers like IDS for years until the penny dropped and they stopped banging their collective heads on the wall and went for an electable liberal moderniser like Cameron. The same will happen to Labour once the hard-left have been given enough rope to hang themselves. It will take one more GE though could come sooner.
Nope. The aged Tory membership only once elected a loser like IDS and learnt from it.
Sorry I was forgetting that Hague and Howard stormed to victory.
Hague and Howard were elected by MPs, Hague over Clarke and Howard unopposed, members were not consulted
OK, I'll rephrase, the Tory Party chose a number of unelectablle losers over many years before they got the message that they needed to choose a liberal moderniser as a leader before before they could hope to get elected again. Labour will eventually do the same
Maybe but as with the Tories post IDS they will have to get rid of some of their extreme members first, some Tory members went to UKIP for example after IDS was ousted making it easier for Cameron to win in 2005
I agree the terrorist sympathisers should be expelled. John, Jeremy and Dianne. Plus Mr Galloway if he is ever allowed to rejoin.
Agree with McBride, give it another year or two and a lost by election to UKIP and 200+ MPs will nominate Benn making Corbyn's position untenable
But it isn't just down to the MPs who becomes leader, is it?
Even Labour's lawyers have said once a challenger gets nominated Corbyn will also need to get 35 nominations
But what is to stop Corbynistas getting the NEC to redefine this giving an existing Leader an automatic slot?
They would need enough NEC members to do so which at the moment Corbyn has not got and in any case with 200 plus MPs behind him Benn would still be leader of the parliamentary party and the official leader of the opposition even if the Corbynistas got his leadership reendorsed by the Trotskyist entryists who now comprise a majority of the Labour membership
Really? I thought Corbyn has a majority on the NEC.
There has been no clear evidence of this, it may be the case in a few years but I am not so sure now but as stated the leader of the opposition is the one who commands the second largest number of MPs and not Labour Party members
With major foreign stuff going on in the world no one is going to be listening to Shadow Whatevers this year anyway. Corbyn has plenty of time to solidify his position and the MP's will muddle on. The Tories may acquire a shot fox in the form of the economy, this could be their weakness, but anti-austerity won't be the sensible answer so Labour will blow it anyway. The world is going to be a very different place in 2020 anyhow.
Once upon a time I recall the French rugby team fighting among themselves, as that was more important than the thrashing they were getting from England. Labour are in much that position. It'd be nice to think that we'd get a more sophisticated Labour from the ashes but only time will tell. "You're rich, and thus I conclude you're a bastard" has perhaps had it's day.
I'd also like to add the following (if only because should I ever review this post in the future I'll be assured of something to feel good about), and that's - Jeremy Corbyn, what a fool!
Agree with McBride, give it another year or two and a lost by election to UKIP and 200+ MPs will nominate Benn making Corbyn's position untenable
But it isn't just down to the MPs who becomes leader, is it?
Even Labour's lawyers have said once a challenger gets nominated Corbyn will also need to get 35 nominations
But what is to stop Corbynistas getting the NEC to redefine this giving an existing Leader an automatic slot?
They would need enough NEC members to do so which at the moment Corbyn has not got and in any case with 200 plus MPs behind him Benn would still be leader of the parliamentary party and the official leader of the opposition even if the Corbynistas got his leadership reendorsed by the Trotskyist entryists who now comprise a majority of the Labour membership
Really? I thought Corbyn has a majority on the NEC.
There has been no clear evidence of this, it may be the case in a few years but I am not so sure now but as stated the leader of the opposition is the one who commands the second largest number of MPs and not Labour Party members
I suggest that the opportunity for the PLP to replace Corbyn is narrowing and they need to act in a matter of weeks lest Corbynistas change the rules. But they seem to be short of enough MPs with the courage to tackle Corbyn. Far too many are appeasers such as the Eagles, Benn and Burnham.
Concerning Labour's possible eclipse, I think it's instructive to think about why the Liberals went down the pan (obviously there has been no lack of people doing this over the last 80 years).
We can see:
An alternative, insurgent anti-Tory party, ie Labour Changes to the franchise that might favour that party Social upheaval caused by the First World War Numerous strategic balls-ups by the Liberals themselves, including a split between their two leading personalities
It's not an easy cocktail to mix.
At the moment Labour is acting self-destructively but that won't be enough without an alternative anti-Tory party. Not an interesting niche kind of party but one which is challenging for 30% of the vote. That party doesn't exist yet and I don't see where it's coming from. The answer is given: "UKIP" but I don't buy that.
My views on Carbon Capture and Storage are on the the record on here. Basically, I think it's totally unsuitable for the UK given current tech, and Miliband was insane for requiring coal power stations to have it.
Many people say sequestration of gasses underground is perfectly safe. Well, try telling that to residents in Los Angeles:
The pro-CCS people will be saying that the situations are totally different: the Los Angeles gas is methane, and it is kept at a higher depth and routinely moved in and out (the gas is stored underground). But the differences appear less than the similarities.
30% or so will always vote for a leftwing party, ...
That has been true for recent times in as much as Labour has not dropped much below 30% since universal suffrage. Though whether in the days of massed organised Labour people thought they were voting for a left wing party is a moot point. However, past performance is no guarantee of future gains as they say and there is certainly no natural law that suggests Labour's base support will continue indefinitely.
Long periods (20 years plus) of government by a single party have happened before both in the UK and abroad and could happen here again.
Indeed but there is no significant alternative on the left to Labour outside Scotland
There is a big gap but there are alternatives for the middle class and working class voters. lib Dems, Greens, Plaid (Wales) and UKIP. These amount to more viable alternatives than we had in the 1930s.
There are also the patriotic, defence supporting Labour voters who could vote Conservative.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
The aged Tory membership kept on electing right-wing losers like IDS for years until the penny dropped and they stopped banging their collective heads on the wall and went for an electable liberal moderniser like Cameron. The same will happen to Labour once the hard-left have been given enough rope to hang themselves. It will take one more GE though could come sooner.
Nope. The aged Tory membership only once elected a loser like IDS and learnt from it.
Sorry I was forgetting that Hague and Howard stormed to victory.
Hague and Howard were elected by MPs, Hague over Clarke and Howard unopposed, members were not consulted
OK, I'll rephrase, the Tory Party chose a number of unelectablle losers over many years before they got the message that they needed to choose a liberal moderniser as a leader before before they could hope to get elected again. Labour will eventually do the same
Maybe but as with the Tories post IDS they will have to get rid of some of their extreme members first, some Tory members went to UKIP for example after IDS was ousted making it easier for Cameron to win in 2005
I agree the terrorist sympathisers should be expelled. John, Jeremy and Dianne. Plus Mr Galloway if he is ever allowed to rejoin.
''Exactly! Whereas having a machine send a fixed penalty notice to a driver is on the other hand very easy.''
Such b8llocks. There are certain crimes that are prosecuted with energy and zeal by the police. For example whether Katie Hopkins has offended anyone (interviewed under caution). Whether someone might be doing a few extra miles an hour on certain stretches of road. Or whether locals wanting to blow the whistle on Rotherham rapists were disturbing community relations.
You just don't want to acknowledge that the rule of law in Britain has gone out of the window to be replaced by policing by the prevailing political priorities of our day.
Woman fined £100 for pausing to hug her father: Mother-of-two gets a ticket after stopping for 13 seconds outside an airport as she picked up her 70-year-old dad
Add Tyson Fury being investigated for his (unpleasant) comments.
What's the issue with the woman getting fined for stopping where she shouldn't stop? It does seem excessive for 13 seconds, but the zone is clearly signposted, according to the Mail she would have passed around 20 such signs. There just has to be a limit, a line that mustn't be crossed, whether it be speed limits, parking restrictions or things like no drink zones.
For dangerous activities, like your profession, I agree that there must be lines that are not crossed.
But that is absolutely not the case in non-dangerous situations, like picking someone up at the airport. There, absolute lines are nonsense. Commonsense application of rules as guidelines is the only way to go. Or you get 10 year old girls getting 2+ minute TSA body pat downs at the airport because she's packed a juice box in her bag.
Agree with McBride, give it another year or two and a lost by election to UKIP and 200+ MPs will nominate Benn making Corbyn's position untenable
But it isn't just down to the MPs who becomes leader, is it?
Even Labour's lawyers have said once a challenger gets nominated Corbyn will also need to get 35 nominations
But what is to stop Corbynistas getting the NEC to redefine this giving an existing Leader an automatic slot?
They would need enough NEC members to do so which at the moment Corbyn has not got and in any case with 200 plus MPs behind him Benn would still be leader of the parliamentary party and the official leader of the opposition even if the Corbynistas got his leadership reendorsed by the Trotskyist entryists who now comprise a majority of the Labour membership
Really? I thought Corbyn has a majority on the NEC.
There has been no clear evidence of this, it may be the case in a few years but I am not so sure now but as stated the leader of the opposition is the one who commands the second largest number of MPs and not Labour Party members
I suggest that the opportunity for the PLP to replace Corbyn is narrowing and they need to act in a matter of weeks lest Corbynistas change the rules. But they seem to be short of enough MPs with the courage to tackle Corbyn. Far too many are appeasers such as the Eagles, Benn and Burnham.
All it takes is a Labour seat lost in a by election to UKIP to trigger a mass revolt
Agree with McBride, give it another year or two and a lost by election to UKIP and 200+ MPs will nominate Benn making Corbyn's position untenable
But it isn't just down to the MPs who becomes leader, is it?
Even Labour's lawyers have said once a challenger gets nominated Corbyn will also need to get 35 nominations
But what is to stop Corbynistas getting the NEC to redefine this giving an existing Leader an automatic slot?
They would need enough NEC members to do so which at the moment Corbyn has not got and in any case with 200 plus MPs behind him Benn would still be leader of the parliamentary party and the official leader of the opposition even if the Corbynistas got his leadership reendorsed by the Trotskyist entryists who now comprise a majority of the Labour membership
Really? I thought Corbyn has a majority on the NEC.
There has been no clear evidence of this, it may be the case in a few years but I am not so sure now but as stated the leader of the opposition is the one who commands the second largest number of MPs and not Labour Party members
Agree with McBride, give it another year or two and a lost by election to UKIP and 200+ MPs will nominate Benn making Corbyn's position untenable
But it isn't just down to the MPs who becomes leader, is it?
Even Labour's lawyers have said once a challenger gets nominated Corbyn will also need to get 35 nominations
But what is to stop Corbynistas getting the NEC to redefine this giving an existing Leader an automatic slot?
They would need enough NEC members to do so which at the moment Corbyn has not got and in any case with 200 plus MPs behind him Benn would still be leader of the parliamentary party and the official leader of the opposition even if the Corbynistas got his leadership reendorsed by the Trotskyist entryists who now comprise a majority of the Labour membership
Really? I thought Corbyn has a majority on the NEC.
There has been no clear evidence of this, it may be the case in a few years but I am not so sure now but as stated the leader of the opposition is the one who commands the second largest number of MPs and not Labour Party members
30% or so will always vote for a leftwing party, ...
That has been true for recent times in as much as Labour has not dropped much below 30% since universal suffrage. Though whether in the days of massed organised Labour people thought they were voting for a left wing party is a moot point. However, past performance is no guarantee of future gains as they say and there is certainly no natural law that suggests Labour's base support will continue indefinitely.
Long periods (20 years plus) of government by a single party have happened before both in the UK and abroad and could happen here again.
Indeed but there is no significant alternative on the left to Labour outside Scotland
There is a big gap but there are alternatives for the middle class and working class voters. lib Dems, Greens, Plaid (Wales) and UKIP. These amount to more viable alternatives than we had in the 1930s.
There are also the patriotic, defence supporting Labour voters who could vote Conservative.
Few leftwingers will back the LDs now post coalition, Plaid only exist in Wales, the Greens are Corbynlite, UKIP are populist rightwinger and most patriotic, defence supporting working class voters will have voted Tory last May anyway
Agree with McBride, give it another year or two and a lost by election to UKIP and 200+ MPs will nominate Benn making Corbyn's position untenable
But it isn't just down to the MPs who becomes leader, is it?
Even Labour's lawyers have said once a challenger gets nominated Corbyn will also need to get 35 nominations
But what is to stop Corbynistas getting the NEC to redefine this giving an existing Leader an automatic slot?
They would need enough NEC members to do so which at the moment Corbyn has not got and in any case with 200 plus MPs behind him Benn would still be leader of the parliamentary party and the official leader of the opposition even if the Corbynistas got his leadership reendorsed by the Trotskyist entryists who now comprise a majority of the Labour membership
Really? I thought Corbyn has a majority on the NEC.
There has been no clear evidence of this, it may be the case in a few years but I am not so sure now but as stated the leader of the opposition is the one who commands the second largest number of MPs and not Labour Party members
a wafer thin
I can't help but read those words in a comedy French accent.
Agree with McBride, give it another year or two and a lost by election to UKIP and 200+ MPs will nominate Benn making Corbyn's position untenable
But it isn't just down to the MPs who becomes leader, is it?
Even Labour's lawyers have said once a challenger gets nominated Corbyn will also need to get 35 nominations
But what is to stop Corbynistas getting the NEC to redefine this giving an existing Leader an automatic slot?
They would need enough NEC members to do so which at the moment Corbyn has not got and in any case with 200 plus MPs behind him Benn would still be leader of the parliamentary party and the official leader of the opposition even if the Corbynistas got his leadership reendorsed by the Trotskyist entryists who now comprise a majority of the Labour membership
Really? I thought Corbyn has a majority on the NEC.
There has been no clear evidence of this, it may be the case in a few years but I am not so sure now but as stated the leader of the opposition is the one who commands the second largest number of MPs and not Labour Party members
''Exactly! Whereas having a machine send a fixed penalty notice to a driver is on the other hand very easy.''
Such b8llocks. There are certain crimes that are prosecuted with energy and zeal by the police. For example whether Katie Hopkins has offended anyone (interviewed under caution). Whether someone might be doing a few extra miles an hour on certain stretches of road. Or whether locals wanting to blow the whistle on Rotherham rapists were disturbing community relations.
You just don't want to acknowledge that the rule of law in Britain has gone out of the window to be replaced by policing by the prevailing political priorities of our day.
Woman fined £100 for pausing to hug her father: Mother-of-two gets a ticket after stopping for 13 seconds outside an airport as she picked up her 70-year-old dad
Add Tyson Fury being investigated for his (unpleasant) comments.
What's the issue with the woman getting fined for stopping where she shouldn't stop? It does seem excessive for 13 seconds, but the zone is clearly signposted, according to the Mail she would have passed around 20 such signs. There just has to be a limit, a line that mustn't be crossed, whether it be speed limits, parking restrictions or things like no drink zones.
For dangerous activities, like your profession, I agree that there must be lines that are not crossed.
But that is absolutely not the case in non-dangerous situations, like picking someone up at the airport. There, absolute lines are nonsense. Commonsense application of rules as guidelines is the only way to go. Or you get 10 year old girls getting 2+ minute TSA body pat downs at the airport because she's packed a juice box in her bag.
A juice box and a mobile phone. If you don't give her a pat down - as you do with every other passenger who makes this error - then you open a security loophole
Glen OHara BTW, #Labour has *never* in the modern age risen from its poll rating at this stage in a Parl to record a better score at the GE. Never.
I think he needs to look at the same stages of the 1959 and 1987 Parliaments . Labour did better in 1964 than polls were suggesting in Mid 1960. Likewise Labour did better in 1992 than the polling figures in Jan 1988.
Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
Because the membership that chose Corbyn in the first place aren't going to replace him with someone just as batshit crazy?
Besides they're all in tinfoil hat mode over criticism of Corbyn anyway.
I don't think members chose Corbyn because he is on the far left. They chose him because they felt - a la Nick Palmer - that he was polite, consensual, anti-spin, to the left of the other three candidates and prepared to build a big tent. That none of that is really true (though he may be polite to your face) is besides the point. They projected. And like Nick, they chose to ignore or disregard his 30 years of cosying up to apologists for and advocates of terrorism, the subjugation of women and the killing of homosexuals. They voted in reaction to defeat and in disgust at triangulation. They wanted a Labour party that stands for something; one that made them feel good about themselves. At some stage, for many of them that will no longer be enough. They will want to win again. The far left's challenge is to seize as much control as possible before that moment comes.
Want to know why Trident is such a big issue even though it is going to be introduced and there is nothing that labour can do to stop it? Once party policy is officially to oppose Trident it makes it nigh on impossible for someone who is pro-Trident to stand for the leadership. That rules out the likes of Dan Jarvis, Chukka etc.
I think you have overlooked the contribution of Harriet Harman to Corbyn's election. Had it not been for her dim-witted response to Osborne's July Budget , Corbyn would not have gained anything like the momentum that he did. The other three contenders as members of the Shadow Cabinet were forced to go along with the official line and abstained on the key vote relating to Osborne's proposals - leaving Corbyn to bask in the glory of opposing austerity. With hindsight, Cooper and Burnham should have resigned from the Shadow Cabinet and so freed themselves up to take on Corbyn. Had it not been for Harman's cock up Corbyn would have done no better than come in a respectable third place. She - rather than those who agreed to nominate him - should carry the can for his election.
you could also add that Labour was actually nurtured within the Liberals' own bosom, and the Liberals' failure to introduce the safety net of PR to prevent their own oblivion.
Comments
The scouse git in the oyster.
But I miss the old fraud.
Unsure of the others.
(Possibly I'm overly influenced by my partner, who was at Greenham. I have learnt to never ever think, let alone talk, about nuclear weapons when she is in the house. That's unless I want her to impersonate one detonating in the kitchen.)
With the sword of redundancy swinging ever lower above my head, I might have a lot of time on my hands!
Thanks to you, by the way, for your comments on the stealth-cutting of defence. It's not something I'd appreciated the extent of.
The answer was of course zero as he was dead and hence not liable for any tax - bounder refused to pay up.
*I say "Clowns in charge" based on my experience of East and West Sussex brigades. Maybe your lot are better but somehow I doubt it.
And I wish you luck and hope the redundancy sword misses you!
Still, now the FBU are reaffilliated with Labour, surely I will be safe!
I have a question Mr McBride – However, I’ll wait until after the water shed to ask it..
Long periods (20 years plus) of government by a single party have happened before both in the UK and abroad and could happen here again.
This seems to suggest a wafer thin majority, but it could be wrong.
I'd also like to add the following (if only because should I ever review this post in the future I'll be assured of something to feel good about), and that's - Jeremy Corbyn, what a fool!
We can see:
An alternative, insurgent anti-Tory party, ie Labour
Changes to the franchise that might favour that party
Social upheaval caused by the First World War
Numerous strategic balls-ups by the Liberals themselves, including a split between their two leading personalities
It's not an easy cocktail to mix.
At the moment Labour is acting self-destructively but that won't be enough without an alternative anti-Tory party. Not an interesting niche kind of party but one which is challenging for 30% of the vote. That party doesn't exist yet and I don't see where it's coming from. The answer is given: "UKIP" but I don't buy that.
My views on Carbon Capture and Storage are on the the record on here. Basically, I think it's totally unsuitable for the UK given current tech, and Miliband was insane for requiring coal power stations to have it.
Many people say sequestration of gasses underground is perfectly safe. Well, try telling that to residents in Los Angeles:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35244634http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/5-facts-to-know-about-the-california-methane-leak/
The pro-CCS people will be saying that the situations are totally different: the Los Angeles gas is methane, and it is kept at a higher depth and routinely moved in and out (the gas is stored underground). But the differences appear less than the similarities.
There are also the patriotic, defence supporting Labour voters who could vote Conservative.
But that is absolutely not the case in non-dangerous situations, like picking someone up at the airport. There, absolute lines are nonsense. Commonsense application of rules as guidelines is the only way to go. Or you get 10 year old girls getting 2+ minute TSA body pat downs at the airport because she's packed a juice box in her bag.
you could also add that Labour was actually nurtured within the Liberals' own bosom, and the Liberals' failure to introduce the safety net of PR to prevent their own oblivion.