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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Ex-Brown spinner Damian McBride reckons 200 LAB MPs will re

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  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,296

    JohnO said:

    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MSmithsonPB: Corbyn's YouGov leader ratings from LAB voters, with just 45% saying he's doing well, are now below anything EdM experienced.

    One has to wonder what Corbyn could possibly do to persuade those 45% that he's not doing a good job, although to be fair he's working on that.
    I've been persuaded that he botched his reshuffle, by allowing most of his enemies to stay on board and continue their dirty work against the Labour party.
    I would have given him the thumps up for ousting Benn and the other 10 in one stroke, however he did not, so at presently I think he's not very good at it.

    Been too kind to Labour's enemies has turned me off a bit from Corbyn, so I'm not surprised to see his numbers drop, you can compromise on policy but not with the people of the anti-Labour factions.
    Corbyn's turning out not to be a good butcher at a time when most of his supporters (aka the majority of Labour) are angry with the conduct of his enemies and demand a good purge of them.
    Are you saying that the likes of Benn, Eagle etc are Labour's 'enemies'? I guess you are.

    By some measure you are the wisest fool ever to be seen in pb-dom.
    Don't doubt Speedy's wisdom. Last April he was confidently assuring us all there would be no Tory gains from Labour at the general election.
    I also chuckled at Tim B's recent comment that our Speedy knew the square root of a very small number about US politics as well.

    But he writes very well indeed - it's a genuine pleasure to read his posts: I just hope that he doesn't work in any analytical role.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JohnRentoul: "We've been in power for 3 months now." Revealing slip by @johnmcdonnellMP on BBC R4 Wato

    Wow it was assumed that was the mindset but to have it confirmed like that. How much do Labour need to put up with before someone says "no you idiot Cameron is in power".
    Cameron is not in power in the Labour Party and that is the only kind of power the Corbynistas are interested in.

    They have won and continue to solidify their position.

    Actually I wouldn't mind if only they could come up with someone else to do the TV and radio.
    What would that change? Whoever else was nominated for the job would be spouting the same lunacies.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    That Dan Hodges piece is brilliant!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    taffys said:

    Osborne has a speech later, is he going to basically admit he's in trouble?

    No because he's not in trouble and wouldn't admit it if he was. Which he isn't.

    I can't invisage what could possibly put him in trouble while his opposite number is MaoDonnell. Perhaps going from being shadowed by Balls through to Balls losing his seat through to being shadowed by Mao will lead him to laugh himself to death. That's about it.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,362
    I just can't quite shake the notion that everything McDonnell and Livingstone say is simply to take the piss, to rile the right, to stir the shit, to poke the Blairites with a big sharp pointed poking stick, with no pretence whatsoever of any intellectual coherence.

    Nothing else makes sense.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Pauly said:

    That awkward moment when Trump doesn't know Paris isn't in Germany.

    @realDonaldTrump: Man shot inside Paris police station. Just announced that terror threat is at highest level. Germany is a total mess-big crime. GET SMART!

    At no point does that tweet say that. They are too unrelated statements with the latter presumably referring to Cologne et al.
    And Paris [Hilton] may well be in Germany today.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    JohnO said:

    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MSmithsonPB: Corbyn's YouGov leader ratings from LAB voters, with just 45% saying he's doing well, are now below anything EdM experienced.

    One has to wonder what Corbyn could possibly do to persuade those 45% that he's not doing a good job, although to be fair he's working on that.
    I've been persuaded that he botched his reshuffle, by allowing most of his enemies to stay on board and continue their dirty work against the Labour party.
    I would have given him the thumps up for ousting Benn and the other 10 in one stroke, however he did not, so at presently I think he's not very good at it.

    Been too kind to Labour's enemies has turned me off a bit from Corbyn, so I'm not surprised to see his numbers drop, you can compromise on policy but not with the people of the anti-Labour factions.
    Corbyn's turning out not to be a good butcher at a time when most of his supporters (aka the majority of Labour) are angry with the conduct of his enemies and demand a good purge of them.
    Are you saying that the likes of Benn, Eagle etc are Labour's 'enemies'? I guess you are.

    By some measure you are the wisest fool ever to be seen in pb-dom.
    They are bigger enemies of Labour at the present than the Tories, because they are attacking the party from within and from senior positions.

    In the next leadership election I would even vote for someone promising to re-invade Iraq as long as he expelled the Benn-Kendall faction from Labour.
    It's the conduct of the Benn-Kendall faction that makes me fume, not their policies.

    The heck I would even contemplate someone like Blair as long as he cuts Benn's head off.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    taffys said:

    lol QTWTAIN

    Any speech talking about the global economy being in trouble is de facto code that things are going awry.

    Fair enough. I was enjoying the idea of George beginning his speech with, "Basically, I'm in trouble."
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,296
    Speedy said:

    JohnO said:

    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MSmithsonPB: Corbyn's YouGov leader ratings from LAB voters, with just 45% saying he's doing well, are now below anything EdM experienced.

    One has to wonder what Corbyn could possibly do to persuade those 45% that he's not doing a good job, although to be fair he's working on that.
    I've been persuaded that he botched his reshuffle, by allowing most of his enemies to stay on board and continue their dirty work against the Labour party.
    I would have given him the thumps up for ousting Benn and the other 10 in one stroke, however he did not, so at presently I think he's not very good at it.

    Been too kind to Labour's enemies has turned me off a bit from Corbyn, so I'm not surprised to see his numbers drop, you can compromise on policy but not with the people of the anti-Labour factions.
    Corbyn's turning out not to be a good butcher at a time when most of his supporters (aka the majority of Labour) are angry with the conduct of his enemies and demand a good purge of them.
    Are you saying that the likes of Benn, Eagle etc are Labour's 'enemies'? I guess you are.

    By some measure you are the wisest fool ever to be seen in pb-dom.
    They are bigger enemies of Labour at the present than the Tories, because they are attacking the party from within and from senior positions.

    In the next leadership election I would even vote for someone promising to re-invade Iraq as long as he expelled the Benn-Kendall faction from Labour.
    It's the conduct of the Benn-Kendall faction that makes me fume, not their policies.

    The heck I would even contemplate someone like Blair as long as he cuts Benn's head off.
    Bugga me, and I thought Seumas Milne was a Stalinist. Go for it, son, go for it.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''No because he's not in trouble and wouldn't admit it if he was. Which he isn't.''

    If the economy slows the deficit isn;t going to tighten. Its going to widen.

    And that's going to leave George with some very unpalatable choices in front of a public tiring of austerity.

    There it is. You adopt Brownian policies, you get Brownian problems.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Mr. Thompson, the turn-around from a seeming likelihood of PM Miliband through to Corbyn and Mao has been as sudden and unexpected as when the Ottoman Turks were poised to conquer Byzantium around 1400, only for Tamerlane to roll up with a ****ing massive army and crush the Ottomans, before wandering off east, leaving Byzantium feeling lucky as a man who got pushed out of a plane without a parachute and landed in the Playboy mansion swimming pool.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    Things are so bad for Labour, I'm almost tempted to follow tim on twitter...


    I miss tim on pb. There were at least four tims: the nasty personal abusive tim; the boring repetitive tim; the politically incisive tim; cultural tim (music, wine etc...) I liked 2 of the 4, and was willing to put up with the 2 I didn't like for the 2 I did. But then, I was never the subject of tim #1.
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    edited 2016 07

    taffys said:

    Osborne has a speech later, is he going to basically admit he's in trouble?

    No because he's not in trouble and wouldn't admit it if he was. Which he isn't.

    I can't invisage what could possibly put him in trouble while his opposite number is MaoDonnell. Perhaps going from being shadowed by Balls through to Balls losing his seat through to being shadowed by Mao will lead him to laugh himself to death. That's about it.
    He is a little (and I support him) because Oil & China are dragging the FTSE down delaying his planned Lloyds & RBS planned re-privitisations. Also global growth is dissipating which will inevitably impact us.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822

    I just can't quite shake the notion that everything McDonnell and Livingstone say is simply to take the piss, to rile the right, to stir the shit, to poke the Blairites with a big sharp pointed poking stick, with no pretence whatsoever of any intellectual coherence.

    Nothing else makes sense.

    Oh, I don't know. I'd have thought the explanation that they are half-witted nutjobs, transfixed by barmy Communist ideology of the sort the 'Comintern' (i.e. Stalin) promoted, fits the facts rather well.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Things are so bad for Labour, I'm almost tempted to follow tim on twitter...

    I'm leaving that for Labour's End of Days. I mean, where else is there left to go after tim?
    tim is worried that Khan will win because then Corbyn will take the credit.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,482

    That awkward moment when Trump doesn't know Paris isn't in Germany.

    @realDonaldTrump: Man shot inside Paris police station. Just announced that terror threat is at highest level. Germany is a total mess-big crime. GET SMART!

    The GET SMART bit at the end just makes it worse.
    That awkward moment when neither TSE or FrancisUrguhart can properly read a tweet.
    Trump should have used either the Oxford comma and/or an 'and'
    That would have made it clearer certainly.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Speedy said:

    JohnO said:

    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MSmithsonPB: Corbyn's YouGov leader ratings from LAB voters, with just 45% saying he's doing well, are now below anything EdM experienced.

    One has to wonder what Corbyn could possibly do to persuade those 45% that he's not doing a good job, although to be fair he's working on that.
    I've been persuaded that he botched his reshuffle, by allowing most of his enemies to stay on board and continue their dirty work against the Labour party.
    I would have given him the thumps up for ousting Benn and the other 10 in one stroke, however he did not, so at presently I think he's not very good at it.

    Been too kind to Labour's enemies has turned me off a bit from Corbyn, so I'm not surprised to see his numbers drop, you can compromise on policy but not with the people of the anti-Labour factions.
    Corbyn's turning out not to be a good butcher at a time when most of his supporters (aka the majority of Labour) are angry with the conduct of his enemies and demand a good purge of them.
    Are you saying that the likes of Benn, Eagle etc are Labour's 'enemies'? I guess you are.

    By some measure you are the wisest fool ever to be seen in pb-dom.
    They are bigger enemies of Labour at the present than the Tories, because they are attacking the party from within and from senior positions.

    In the next leadership election I would even vote for someone promising to re-invade Iraq as long as he expelled the Benn-Kendall faction from Labour.
    It's the conduct of the Benn-Kendall faction that makes me fume, not their policies.

    The heck I would even contemplate someone like Blair as long as he cuts Benn's head off.
    Are you not worried that the MPs in the Corbyn inner circle are all old ?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited 2016 07
    Speedy said:

    JohnO said:

    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MSmithsonPB: Corbyn's YouGov leader ratings from LAB voters, with just 45% saying he's doing well, are now below anything EdM experienced.

    One has to wonder what Corbyn could possibly do to persuade those 45% that he's not doing a good job, although to be fair he's working on that.
    I've been persuaded that he botched his reshuffle, by allowing most of his enemies to stay on board and continue their dirty work against the Labour party.
    I would have given him the thumps up for ousting Benn and the other 10 in one stroke, however he did not, so at presently I think he's not very good at it.

    Been too kind to Labour's enemies has turned me off a bit from Corbyn, so I'm not surprised to see his numbers drop, you can compromise on policy but not with the people of the anti-Labour factions.
    Corbyn's turning out not to be a good butcher at a time when most of his supporters (aka the majority of Labour) are angry with the conduct of his enemies and demand a good purge of them.
    Are you saying that the likes of Benn, Eagle etc are Labour's 'enemies'? I guess you are.

    By some measure you are the wisest fool ever to be seen in pb-dom.
    They are bigger enemies of Labour at the present than the Tories, because they are attacking the party from within and from senior positions.

    In the next leadership election I would even vote for someone promising to re-invade Iraq as long as he expelled the Benn-Kendall faction from Labour.
    It's the conduct of the Benn-Kendall faction that makes me fume, not their policies.

    The heck I would even contemplate someone like Blair as long as he cuts Benn's head off.
    What exactly is Benn's "crime" in your eyes?

    It can't be the Syria vote since that was a Free Vote. So what else is it?
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    edited 2016 07
    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MSmithsonPB: Corbyn's YouGov leader ratings from LAB voters, with just 45% saying he's doing well, are now below anything EdM experienced.

    One has to wonder what Corbyn could possibly do to persuade those 45% that he's not doing a good job, although to be fair he's working on that.
    I've been persuaded that he botched his reshuffle, by allowing most of his enemies to stay on board and continue their dirty work against the Labour party.
    I would have given him the thumps up for ousting Benn and the other 10 in one stroke, however he did not, so at presently I think he's not very good at it.

    Been too kind to Labour's enemies has turned me off a bit from Corbyn, so I'm not surprised to see his numbers drop, you can compromise on policy but not with the people of the anti-Labour factions.
    Corbyn's turning out not to be a good butcher at a time when most of his supporters (aka the majority of Labour) are angry with the conduct of his enemies and demand a good purge of them.
    Are you saying that the likes of Benn, Eagle etc are Labour's 'enemies'? I guess you are.

    By some measure you are the wisest fool ever to be seen in pb-dom.
    Don't doubt Speedy's wisdom. Last April he was confidently assuring us all there would be no Tory gains from Labour at the general election.
    I also chuckled at Tim B's recent comment that our Speedy knew the square root of a very small number about US politics as well.

    But he writes very well indeed - it's a genuine pleasure to read his posts: I just hope that he doesn't work in any analytical role.
    I almost agree with TimB on Mr Speedy's knowledge of US politics. I'd suggest he knows the square root of a very small negative odd number.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,755

    Things are so bad for Labour, I'm almost tempted to follow tim on twitter...

    I'm leaving that for Labour's End of Days. I mean, where else is there left to go after tim?
    Follow Dr Eoin Clarke. The man is comedy gold and the best anti tipster in the business.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Speedy said:

    JohnO said:

    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MSmithsonPB: Corbyn's YouGov leader ratings from LAB voters, with just 45% saying he's doing well, are now below anything EdM experienced.

    One has to wonder what Corbyn could possibly do to persuade those 45% that he's not doing a good job, although to be fair he's working on that.
    I've been persuaded that he botched his reshuffle, by allowing most of his enemies to stay on board and continue their dirty work against the Labour party.
    I would have given him the thumps up for ousting Benn and the other 10 in one stroke, however he did not, so at presently I think he's not very good at it.

    Been too kind to Labour's enemies has turned me off a bit from Corbyn, so I'm not surprised to see his numbers drop, you can compromise on policy but not with the people of the anti-Labour factions.
    Corbyn's turning out not to be a good butcher at a time when most of his supporters (aka the majority of Labour) are angry with the conduct of his enemies and demand a good purge of them.
    Are you saying that the likes of Benn, Eagle etc are Labour's 'enemies'? I guess you are.

    By some measure you are the wisest fool ever to be seen in pb-dom.
    They are bigger enemies of Labour at the present than the Tories, because they are attacking the party from within and from senior positions.

    In the next leadership election I would even vote for someone promising to re-invade Iraq as long as he expelled the Benn-Kendall faction from Labour.
    It's the conduct of the Benn-Kendall faction that makes me fume, not their policies.

    The heck I would even contemplate someone like Blair as long as he cuts Benn's head off.
    You need a broad-based party to win under FPTP though. Actually, you need a broad-based party to be the official Opposition.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @TelePolitics: Why Zac Goldsmith can still beat Sadiq Khan to be Mayor of London https://t.co/8TIWncHAJH
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    Mr. Flashman (deceased), Antigonus, Ptolemy, Lysimachus and Seleucus all lived to old age (as did Antipater). The problem isn't the age of Corbyn's inner circle, it's that they're all off their bloody rocker.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,482
    felix said:

    That awkward moment when Trump doesn't know Paris isn't in Germany.

    @realDonaldTrump: Man shot inside Paris police station. Just announced that terror threat is at highest level. Germany is a total mess-big crime. GET SMART!

    The GET SMART bit at the end just makes it worse.
    That awkward moment when neither TSE or FrancisUrguhart can properly read a tweet.
    Almost as awkward as the Lucky Guy one which can't spell Urquhart :)
    Your phrase doesn't make sense. You appear to be referring to a moment that is unable to spell. 'Almost as awkward as the Lucky Guy one where he showed he can't spell Urquhart' would be one suggestion. :)
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,296
    edited 2016 07
    MTimT said:

    Things are so bad for Labour, I'm almost tempted to follow tim on twitter...


    I miss tim on pb. There were at least four tims: the nasty personal abusive tim; the boring repetitive tim; the politically incisive tim; cultural tim (music, wine etc...) I liked 2 of the 4, and was willing to put up with the 2 I didn't like for the 2 I did. But then, I was never the subject of tim #1.
    Can you possibly imagine - nope, I don't think anyone can - the splenetic vitriol tim would be heaping on the likes of Nick Palmer, particularly Nick Palmer, Surbiton, that bloke on Speedy, Big John Owls etc.

    We're missing him so very much, now he's gone.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    taffys said:

    ''No because he's not in trouble and wouldn't admit it if he was. Which he isn't.''

    If the economy slows the deficit isn;t going to tighten. Its going to widen.

    And that's going to leave George with some very unpalatable choices in front of a public tiring of austerity.

    There it is. You adopt Brownian policies, you get Brownian problems.

    How does any of that put George in trouble?

    For one thing he has been making so called unpalatable choices for nearly six years in office (and about two more in Opposition) so that isn't new.

    For another Brown was widening the deficit before the slowdown and recession. Osborne has been shrinking it consistently. To suggest that is Brownian is innumerate.
  • PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    edited 2016 07
    TGOHF said:


    Are you not worried that the MPs in the Corbyn inner circle are all old ?

    Not to mention that fact that he is so so very dependent on the HoL for his frontbench. Also they are relatively old too. [Data from wikipedia so may have errors]

    Dianne Hayter, Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town - aged 66
    Ray Collins, Baron Collins of Highbury - aged 61
    Eluned Morgan, Baroness Morgan of Ely - aged 48
    James Touhig, Baron Touhig - aged 68
    Richard Rosser, Baron Rosser - aged 71
    Roy Kennedy, Baron Kennedy of Southwark - aged 53
    Charles Falconer, Baron Falconer of Thoroton - aged 64
    Willy Bach, Baron Bach - aged 69
    Jeremy Beecham, Baron Beecham - aged ~72
    Neil Davidson, Baron Davidson of Glen Clova - aged 65
    Bryan Davies, Baron Davies of Oldham - aged 76
    Denis Tunnicliffe, Baron Tunnicliffe - aged 72
    Wilf Stevenson, Baron Stevenson of Balmacara - aged 68
    Jonathan Mendelsohn, Baron Mendelsohn - aged 49
    Mike Watson, Baron Watson of Invergowrie - aged 66
    Philip Hunt, Baron Hunt of Kings Heath - aged 66
    Maeve Sherlock, Baroness Sherlock - aged 55
    Bill McKenzie, Baron McKenzie of Luton - aged 69
    Bryony Worthington, Baroness Worthington - aged 44
    John Suenson-Taylor, 3rd Baron Grantchester - aged 64
    Maggie Jones, Baroness Jones of Whitchurch - aged 60
    Thomas McAvoy, Baron McAvoy of Rutherglen - aged 72
    Steve Bassam, Baron Bassam of Brighton - aged 62
    Margaret Wheeler, Baroness Wheeler - aged 66
    Angela Smith, Baroness Smith of Basildon - aged 57
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/12087093/Why-I-ran-down-Whitehall-in-my-pants.html

    Everyone remembers where they were when they saw that fateful exit poll on election evening. I’ll tell you where I was. Mentally sprinting in the buff down one of London’s busiest thoroughfares. Think of the horror Ed Miliband and Nick Clegg were feeling at that moment, then multiply it a couple of hundred times.

    I had considered quietly backing out. Over time people would just forget everything I’d said before the election. Like they did with Vince Cable.

    But I hadn’t figured on two people. One was Ukip MEP Patrick O’Flynn. He began stalking me. “When’s the naked streak Dan? Once a week, every week. The same tweet. It was like be tailed by the mysterious Indian tracker in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid. “O’Flynn. They say he can track a man over stone.”

    The second was my wife.
    He's getting a lot of grief for that article, claiming he's welched on his original pledge, but it's a light hearted, well written piece, and a couple of charities are a couple of grand richer, so fair play to him.
    That reminds me, talking of that exit poll, did Ashdon ever eat his hat?

    He has technically welched, though understandably so. There's no excuse for him keeping his kecks on but even I'd draw the line at a Nigel Farage mask.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Pah!

    Paul Flynn is only about 80
    TGOHF said:

    Speedy said:

    JohnO said:

    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MSmithsonPB: Corbyn's YouGov leader ratings from LAB voters, with just 45% saying he's doing well, are now below anything EdM experienced.

    One has to wonder what Corbyn could possibly do to persuade those 45% that he's not doing a good job, although to be fair he's working on that.
    I've been persuaded that he botched his reshuffle, by allowing most of his enemies to stay on board and continue their dirty work against the Labour party.
    I would have given him the thumps up for ousting Benn and the other 10 in one stroke, however he did not, so at presently I think he's not very good at it.

    Been too kind to Labour's enemies has turned me off a bit from Corbyn, so I'm not surprised to see his numbers drop, you can compromise on policy but not with the people of the anti-Labour factions.
    Corbyn's turning out not to be a good butcher at a time when most of his supporters (aka the majority of Labour) are angry with the conduct of his enemies and demand a good purge of them.
    Are you saying that the likes of Benn, Eagle etc are Labour's 'enemies'? I guess you are.

    By some measure you are the wisest fool ever to be seen in pb-dom.
    They are bigger enemies of Labour at the present than the Tories, because they are attacking the party from within and from senior positions.

    In the next leadership election I would even vote for someone promising to re-invade Iraq as long as he expelled the Benn-Kendall faction from Labour.
    It's the conduct of the Benn-Kendall faction that makes me fume, not their policies.

    The heck I would even contemplate someone like Blair as long as he cuts Benn's head off.
    Are you not worried that the MPs in the Corbyn inner circle are all old ?
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Speak for yourself
    JohnO said:

    MTimT said:

    Things are so bad for Labour, I'm almost tempted to follow tim on twitter...


    I miss tim on pb. There were at least four tims: the nasty personal abusive tim; the boring repetitive tim; the politically incisive tim; cultural tim (music, wine etc...) I liked 2 of the 4, and was willing to put up with the 2 I didn't like for the 2 I did. But then, I was never the subject of tim #1.
    Can you possibly imagine - nope, I don't think anyone can - the splenetic vitriol tim would be heaping on the likes of Nick Palmer, particularly Nick Palmer, Surbiton, that bloke on Speedy, Big John Owls etc.

    We're missing him so very much, now he's gone.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Things are so bad for Labour, I'm almost tempted to follow tim on twitter...

    What's his Twitter address?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Mr. Flashman (deceased), Antigonus, Ptolemy, Lysimachus and Seleucus all lived to old age (as did Antipater). The problem isn't the age of Corbyn's inner circle, it's that they're all off their bloody rocker.

    Was Ptolemy elected by FPTP ?
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,296

    Speak for yourself

    JohnO said:

    MTimT said:

    Things are so bad for Labour, I'm almost tempted to follow tim on twitter...


    I miss tim on pb. There were at least four tims: the nasty personal abusive tim; the boring repetitive tim; the politically incisive tim; cultural tim (music, wine etc...) I liked 2 of the 4, and was willing to put up with the 2 I didn't like for the 2 I did. But then, I was never the subject of tim #1.
    Can you possibly imagine - nope, I don't think anyone can - the splenetic vitriol tim would be heaping on the likes of Nick Palmer, particularly Nick Palmer, Surbiton, that bloke on Speedy, Big John Owls etc.

    We're missing him so very much, now he's gone.
    More than an hint of irony there. His behaviour to you was utterly disgusting.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,482
    Alistair said:

    FTPT

    kle4 said:


    Foment. Fermenting is something altogether different.

    I always thought so, but apparently ferment can also mean stir or incite trouble, if Google is to be believed.
    Google isn't to be believed. They're trying to excuse people's ignorance.
    Oxford English dictionary disagrees with you listing ferment as

    To work up into a ferment or agitation; to excite, stir up.
    or
    To exacerbate; to foment, inflame.

    Giving examples from the 1600s and 1700s onwards.
    People have been confusing similar words for a long time. The two words have different etymologies.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    MaxPB said:

    Scott_P said:

    @edwardchivers: Labour press office says membership of Nato is not part of defence review being carried out by @ken4london

    But Ken says it is.... As the people around Ken on this review have been weeded out to unilateralists by the reshuffle, who is going to stop him?
    Indeed, I find it more likely that the press officer who said this is going to be sacked than Ken be told NATO isn't on the agenda.
    We do not need to waste time looking into what the detail of the policy is. The fact that Livingstone has been let anywhere near defence policy tells us all we need to know. Does anyone seriously believe that a Corbyn led - or anything remotely like a Corbynite leaning labour - government would be an active meaningful or reliable member of NATO. Its pretty clear what the thrust of Corbyn McDonnell Livingstone foreign policy and its allies would be.
    I do not see Benn fitting in.
    Then again, how reliable is the US as a member of NATO - or how reliable might it be this time next year?
    Hilary will be a sound President on foreign affairs.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''How does any of that put George in trouble?''

    Frankly, I don;t think there's any convincing you on this, whatever I write. Let's just see what Osborne says.
  • SpeedySpeedy Posts: 12,100
    TGOHF said:

    Speedy said:

    JohnO said:

    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MSmithsonPB: Corbyn's YouGov leader ratings from LAB voters, with just 45% saying he's doing well, are now below anything EdM experienced.

    One has to wonder what Corbyn could possibly do to persuade those 45% that he's not doing a good job, although to be fair he's working on that.
    I've been persuaded that he botched his reshuffle, by allowing most of his enemies to stay on board and continue their dirty work against the Labour party.
    I would have given him the thumps up for ousting Benn and the other 10 in one stroke, however he did not, so at presently I think he's not very good at it.

    Been too kind to Labour's enemies has turned me off a bit from Corbyn, so I'm not surprised to see his numbers drop, you can compromise on policy but not with the people of the anti-Labour factions.
    Corbyn's turning out not to be a good butcher at a time when most of his supporters (aka the majority of Labour) are angry with the conduct of his enemies and demand a good purge of them.
    Are you saying that the likes of Benn, Eagle etc are Labour's 'enemies'? I guess you are.

    By some measure you are the wisest fool ever to be seen in pb-dom.
    They are bigger enemies of Labour at the present than the Tories, because they are attacking the party from within and from senior positions.

    In the next leadership election I would even vote for someone promising to re-invade Iraq as long as he expelled the Benn-Kendall faction from Labour.
    It's the conduct of the Benn-Kendall faction that makes me fume, not their policies.

    The heck I would even contemplate someone like Blair as long as he cuts Benn's head off.
    Are you not worried that the MPs in the Corbyn inner circle are all old ?
    I'm more worried that Corbyn's sworn enemies are still around to do a lot of damage.

    That I would contemplate a return to New Labour as the price for Benn's head should tell you a lot, at how the conduct of that faction (see McBride above as an example) can make a Corbyn supporter so angry that he can exchange a lot of his principles for a strong leader that would kick that faction's @ss from the Labour party.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,138
    edited 2016 07
    Mr. Flashman (deceased), appointed to the satrapy he wanted (Egypt), where he murdered the deputy sent to keep an eye on him and, eventually, declared himself king.

    The Macedonian approach to politics was a bit like House of Cards meets Game of Thrones. [A few months old, but this post about how three prominent women behaved sums things up: http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2015/10/macedonian-she-wolves.html ].

    Edited to add a space so the address works.
  • GaiusGaius Posts: 227
    Blue_rog said:

    I never thought it would happen but I'm starting to feel sorry for the 'normal' labour party members. I wonder what they're thinking now and if they have any idea how to get out of this mess.

    I'm not.

    Most members of the labour party are quite happy with the loony left in change.

    It has allowed people to be much more truthful about what they really are and stand for, for example Nick Palmer coming out of the closet.

    This truthfulness will allow the working class to finally realise that the party is not only not their friend but will actively do them down whenever it can.

    If this consigns the labour party to electoral irrelevance then good riddance to bad rubbish.

    ps, I used to be a member many years ago.

  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039

    Things are so bad for Labour, I'm almost tempted to follow tim on twitter...

    Amusingly I finally succumbed to that temptation about 30 minutes before your post. That "suicide vest" tweet tipped the balance.

    But those of you who are pseudo-summoning him back onto here are mad!
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    The clearest sign that Osborne is NOT in trouble is Polly Toynbee wrote an article today saying he was, which has been widely praised by Danny "5 million unemployed" Blanchflower
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    For a newcomer, we're talking about this person?
    https://twitter.com/GOsborneGenius/status/685096922005291008

    Acerbic
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    edited 2016 07
    Wanderer said:

    For a newcomer, we're talking about this person?

    twitter.com/GOsborneGenius/status/685096922005291008

    Acerbic

    Indeed so. The Osborne supremacy must eat at his very core.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,296
    edited 2016 07
    Speedy said:

    TGOHF said:

    Speedy said:

    JohnO said:

    Speedy said:

    Scott_P said:

    @MSmithsonPB: Corbyn's YouGov leader ratings from LAB voters, with just 45% saying he's doing well, are now below anything EdM experienced.

    his enemies and demand a good purge of them.
    Are you saying that the likes of Benn, Eagle etc are Labour's 'enemies'? I guess you are.

    By some measure you are the wisest fool ever to be seen in pb-dom.
    They are bigger enemies of Labour at the present than the Tories, because they are attacking the party from within and from senior positions.

    In the next leadership election I would even vote for someone promising to re-invade Iraq as long as he expelled the Benn-Kendall faction from Labour.
    It's the conduct of the Benn-Kendall faction that makes me fume, not their policies.

    The heck I would even contemplate someone like Blair as long as he cuts Benn's head off.
    Are you not worried that the MPs in the Corbyn inner circle are all old ?
    I'm more worried that Corbyn's sworn enemies are still around to do a lot of damage.

    That I would contemplate a return to New Labour as the price for Benn's head should tell you a lot, at how the conduct of that faction (see McBride above as an example) can make a Corbyn supporter so angry that he can exchange a lot of his principles for a strong leader that would kick that faction's @ss from the Labour party.
    So you would have cheerfully expelled the treacherous Corbyn/McDonnell/Livingstone faction out from the party when they defied time after time after time the democratically elected Leader and official party policies?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,362
    edited 2016 07
    TGOHF said:

    Things are so bad for Labour, I'm almost tempted to follow tim on twitter...

    I'm leaving that for Labour's End of Days. I mean, where else is there left to go after tim?
    tim is worried that Khan will win because then Corbyn will take the credit.
    Then tim better get his arse down to London and campaign for Zac.

    I wonder how many other within Labour don't want Khan to win for the same reason? How many Labour MP's won't canvass for him? "Nothing personal mate, but we can't bear how smug the Corbynistas are going to be about the world coming round to their way of thinking if you are the Mayor...."
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    There's quite a broad church on here which is why I find it strange that not a single poster stands up for Corbyn. The problem his labour critics have is there is nobody remotely capable of uniting the party, it's a total shambles.

    Whichever way you look at it Labour is totally phucked, and good, they're paying the price of nearly 20 years of awful people, dreadful policy and taking spin to a new level. Good riddance to bad rubbish.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,450
    I wouldn't say Osborne is in trouble so much that he could be in trouble if the economy slows down and those tax receipts don't materialise. He will have to reverse some of the spending commitments made in the autumn statement and push through tax credits reform to make the savings necessary. Anything who thinks it wasn't a gamble to spend the extra £24bn rather than bank it has the partisan blinders on.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    There's quite a broad church on here which is why I find it strange that not a single poster stands up for Corbyn. The problem his labour critics have is there is nobody remotely capable of uniting the party, it's a total shambles.

    Whichever way you look at it Labour is totally phucked, and good, they're paying the price of nearly 20 years of awful people, dreadful policy and taking spin to a new level. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    Nick Palmer is standing up for him. Speedy seems to be wavering at the moment. Not sure if surbiton is pro-Corbyn or anti-anti-Corbyn. Big John Owls is Corbynistic I think.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited 2016 07


    For another Brown was widening the deficit before the slowdown and recession. Osborne has been shrinking it consistently. To suggest that is Brownian is innumerate.

    I thought the deficit shrank between 2004 & 2007?

    image

    Also happened in absolute terms as well.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    There's quite a broad church on here which is why I find it strange that not a single poster stands up for Corbyn. The problem his labour critics have is there is nobody remotely capable of uniting the party, it's a total shambles.

    Whichever way you look at it Labour is totally phucked, and good, they're paying the price of nearly 20 years of awful people, dreadful policy and taking spin to a new level. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    Nick Palmer and Speedy stand up for Corbyn to name just two.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,598
    The non-Cabinet Shadow ministers appointed this morning are interesting choices with some olive branches. The vice-chair of Progress Jenny Chapman is at Education, Kevan Jones' successor Kate Hollern is pro-Trident, and Fabian Hamilton (who was my nominee for nicest MP along with Letwin when we were discussing character the other day, and is pro-Israel) is Shadow Foreign Office.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jan/07/corbyn-completes-labour-reshuffle-six-junior-shadow-ministers-appointed
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Wanderer said:

    There's quite a broad church on here which is why I find it strange that not a single poster stands up for Corbyn. The problem his labour critics have is there is nobody remotely capable of uniting the party, it's a total shambles.

    Whichever way you look at it Labour is totally phucked, and good, they're paying the price of nearly 20 years of awful people, dreadful policy and taking spin to a new level. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    Nick Palmer is standing up for him. Speedy seems to be wavering at the moment. Not sure if surbiton is pro-Corbyn or anti-anti-Corbyn. Big John Owls is Corbynistic I think.
    Nick Palmer is very polite but he'd stand up for anything in a red rosette. Can't think of anybody else who even pretends to support him.

    It's interesting that the labour detractors never say it should be him or her leading the party, it's just a load of white noise.

  • LadyBucketLadyBucket Posts: 590
    Gaius said:

    Blue_rog said:

    I never thought it would happen but I'm starting to feel sorry for the 'normal' labour party members. I wonder what they're thinking now and if they have any idea how to get out of this mess.

    I'm not.

    Most members of the labour party are quite happy with the loony left in change.

    It has allowed people to be much more truthful about what they really are and stand for, for example Nick Palmer coming out of the closet.

    This truthfulness will allow the working class to finally realise that the party is not only not their friend but will actively do them down whenever it can.

    If this consigns the labour party to electoral irrelevance then good riddance to bad rubbish.

    ps, I used to be a member many years ago.

    It's hard to get a real feel of what is actually going on in the Labour Party but feel sorry for them, NO, absolutely not. The Conservatives got a real kicking when they were down and probably will do so again at some future date.

    My irritation at Labour supporters, is when they ring phone-in programmes and make comments like "I've been a Labour supporter for years but have never heard of Jeremy Corbyn, so I think he deserves a chance." This drives me mad. The ignorance of some voters is appallying.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    The ignorance of some voters is appallying.

    Exemplified when the Corbynistas do or say something batshit crazy, it is reported accurately in the press, and the same people say "Right Wing media bias"
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MaxPB said:

    I wouldn't say Osborne is in trouble so much that he could be in trouble if the economy slows down and those tax receipts don't materialise. He will have to reverse some of the spending commitments made in the autumn statement and push through tax credits reform to make the savings necessary. Anything who thinks it wasn't a gamble to spend the extra £24bn rather than bank it has the partisan blinders on.

    If course it was a gamble but then that's politics, we don't have a crystal ball. To make a raft of changes then row back from the least popular can be smart politics and is totally different to Brown who backed away from any difficult decisions in the first place.

    I imagine if the £24bn were needed then something else other than the autumn changes would be found to plug the gap. For one thing as the tax credits changes are effectively happening in the future already due to Universal Credit the benefits of doing those changes late are much less than if the original timescale had been followed.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624

    Gaius said:

    Blue_rog said:

    I never thought it would happen but I'm starting to feel sorry for the 'normal' labour party members. I wonder what they're thinking now and if they have any idea how to get out of this mess.

    I'm not.

    Most members of the labour party are quite happy with the loony left in change.

    It has allowed people to be much more truthful about what they really are and stand for, for example Nick Palmer coming out of the closet.

    This truthfulness will allow the working class to finally realise that the party is not only not their friend but will actively do them down whenever it can.

    If this consigns the labour party to electoral irrelevance then good riddance to bad rubbish.

    ps, I used to be a member many years ago.

    It's hard to get a real feel of what is actually going on in the Labour Party but feel sorry for them, NO, absolutely not. The Conservatives got a real kicking when they were down and probably will do so again at some future date.

    My irritation at Labour supporters, is when they ring phone-in programmes and make comments like "I've been a Labour supporter for years but have never heard of Jeremy Corbyn, so I think he deserves a chance." This drives me mad. The ignorance of some voters is appallying.
    You seem to believe they are telling the truth.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Wanderer said:

    There's quite a broad church on here which is why I find it strange that not a single poster stands up for Corbyn. The problem his labour critics have is there is nobody remotely capable of uniting the party, it's a total shambles.

    Whichever way you look at it Labour is totally phucked, and good, they're paying the price of nearly 20 years of awful people, dreadful policy and taking spin to a new level. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    Nick Palmer is standing up for him. Speedy seems to be wavering at the moment. Not sure if surbiton is pro-Corbyn or anti-anti-Corbyn. Big John Owls is Corbynistic I think.
    Nick Palmer is very polite but he'd stand up for anything in a red rosette. Can't think of anybody else who even pretends to support him.

    To be fair, he is a former Labour MP.

    And there are several others that I listed. Which is good as Corbynism is a real and significant phenomenon.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Alistair said:


    For another Brown was widening the deficit before the slowdown and recession. Osborne has been shrinking it consistently. To suggest that is Brownian is innumerate.

    I thought the deficit shrank between 2004 & 2007?

    image

    Also happened in absolute terms as well.
    No it didn't the deficit increased every year under Brown from 2000 onwards except for 2006.

    http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2010/oct/18/deficit-debt-government-borrowing-data
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 53,362
    Scott_P said:

    The ignorance of some voters is appallying.

    Exemplified when the Corbynistas do or say something batshit crazy, it is reported accurately in the press, and the same people say "Right Wing media bias"
    Corbyn's power currently seems to be based on a gobby membership who, frankly, come across as total twats. They are not on speaking terms with coherence. Every time they take to the airwaves or Twitter or facebook, you just cringe for them on their behalf. Because they are just too damned blinkered to see how facile they appear to those blessed with multiple brain-cells....
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited 2016 07
    It's the antisemitism I can't get over. It pops up on my timeline everyday.

    It's ugly and weird. I've no idea why they do it. When did a jew last do something to harm us here? Or anywhere outside Israel Palestine mutual missile throwing?
    Scott_P said:

    The ignorance of some voters is appallying.

    Exemplified when the Corbynistas do or say something batshit crazy, it is reported accurately in the press, and the same people say "Right Wing media bias"

  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Wanderer said:

    Wanderer said:

    There's quite a broad church on here which is why I find it strange that not a single poster stands up for Corbyn. The problem his labour critics have is there is nobody remotely capable of uniting the party, it's a total shambles.

    Whichever way you look at it Labour is totally phucked, and good, they're paying the price of nearly 20 years of awful people, dreadful policy and taking spin to a new level. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    Nick Palmer is standing up for him. Speedy seems to be wavering at the moment. Not sure if surbiton is pro-Corbyn or anti-anti-Corbyn. Big John Owls is Corbynistic I think.
    Nick Palmer is very polite but he'd stand up for anything in a red rosette. Can't think of anybody else who even pretends to support him.

    To be fair, he is a former Labour MP.

    And there are several others that I listed. Which is good as Corbynism is a real and significant phenomenon.
    Is it a phenomonen? To me it's a slur on British politics, from the £3 Tories to the ridiculous reshuffles and general chaos within the official opposition. There is no way it can anything but very badly, then the next second rate berk will take his chance.

    Corbyn supporters are either young and impressionable or well off and idealistic, neither group has the remotest grasp of reality.
  • taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Anything who thinks it wasn't a gamble to spend the extra £24bn rather than bank it has the partisan blinders on.''

    Absolutely. That was a Statement for Osborne's candidacy not for the country, or even the tory party.

  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    MaxPB said:

    Anything who thinks it wasn't a gamble to spend the extra £24bn rather than bank it has the partisan blinders on.

    A pre-emptive stimulus package?
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    edited 2016 07
    @plato

    Some of the anti semitism I encounter from people claiming to be liberal astounds me, I know lots of Jews in N London who shake their heads in wonderment. These antisemites are the same people who shout raaaaccciiisssttt at every opportunity.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Wanderer said:

    Wanderer said:

    There's quite a broad church on here which is why I find it strange that not a single poster stands up for Corbyn. The problem his labour critics have is there is nobody remotely capable of uniting the party, it's a total shambles.

    Whichever way you look at it Labour is totally phucked, and good, they're paying the price of nearly 20 years of awful people, dreadful policy and taking spin to a new level. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    Nick Palmer is standing up for him. Speedy seems to be wavering at the moment. Not sure if surbiton is pro-Corbyn or anti-anti-Corbyn. Big John Owls is Corbynistic I think.
    Nick Palmer is very polite but he'd stand up for anything in a red rosette. Can't think of anybody else who even pretends to support him.

    To be fair, he is a former Labour MP.

    And there are several others that I listed. Which is good as Corbynism is a real and significant phenomenon.
    Is it a phenomonen? To me it's a slur on British politics, from the £3 Tories to the ridiculous reshuffles and general chaos within the official opposition. There is no way it can anything but very badly, then the next second rate berk will take his chance.

    Corbyn supporters are either young and impressionable or well off and idealistic, neither group has the remotest grasp of reality.
    Sure, I'm against it too. It's a real, significant thing though. You can't bet without taking account of it, most obviously in the next Labour leader market.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,450
    Alistair said:


    For another Brown was widening the deficit before the slowdown and recession. Osborne has been shrinking it consistently. To suggest that is Brownian is innumerate.

    I thought the deficit shrank between 2004 & 2007?

    image

    Also happened in absolute terms as well.
    No:

    2002 - £20.3bn
    2003 - £33.4bn
    2004 - £39.6bn
    2005 - £46.4bn
    2006 - £36.5bn
    2007 - £40.8bn

    These are figures taken directly from the ONS datasheets.

    Labour's record is poor on the deficit, they left the country in a much worse position that they inherited, the rot set in once they abandoned the Tory spending plans and indulged in a massive spending binge with basically no real improvements in public sector performance.
  • blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    edited 2016 07
    Wanderer said:

    Wanderer said:

    Wanderer said:

    There's quite a broad church on here which is why I find it strange that not a single poster stands up for Corbyn. The problem his labour critics have is there is nobody remotely capable of uniting the party, it's a total shambles.

    Whichever way you look at it Labour is totally phucked, and good, they're paying the price of nearly 20 years of awful people, dreadful policy and taking spin to a new level. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    Nick Palmer is standing up for him. Speedy seems to be wavering at the moment. Not sure if surbiton is pro-Corbyn or anti-anti-Corbyn. Big John Owls is Corbynistic I think.
    Nick Palmer is very polite but he'd stand up for anything in a red rosette. Can't think of anybody else who even pretends to support him.

    To be fair, he is a former Labour MP.

    And there are several others that I listed. Which is good as Corbynism is a real and significant phenomenon.
    Is it a phenomonen? To me it's a slur on British politics, from the £3 Tories to the ridiculous reshuffles and general chaos within the official opposition. There is no way it can anything but very badly, then the next second rate berk will take his chance.

    Corbyn supporters are either young and impressionable or well off and idealistic, neither group has the remotest grasp of reality.
    Sure, I'm against it too. It's a real, significant thing though. You can't bet without taking account of it, most obviously in the next Labour leader market.
    Yes it's real ok, I guess labours opponents can't believe their luck. The crazy thing is regardless of who'd won the outcome would be the same, they're phucked for good.
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    @plato

    Some of the anti semitism I encounter from people claiming to be liberal astounds me

    Something we agree on
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    The book is lacking a chapter on the Neoliberalization of Neoliberal Neoliberalogies in a Neo-Neoliberal Context https://t.co/fvSMzVsqti
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Ummm

    UN Library
    What was our most popular book of 2015? Find it in our library catalogue! https://t.co/hmfeCmGKCj (UN only) https://t.co/niGXUxHtGt
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    I just can't quite shake the notion that everything McDonnell and Livingstone say is simply to take the piss, to rile the right, to stir the shit, to poke the Blairites with a big sharp pointed poking stick, with no pretence whatsoever of any intellectual coherence.

    Nothing else makes sense.

    Oh, I don't know. I'd have thought the explanation that they are half-witted nutjobs, transfixed by barmy Communist ideology of the sort the 'Comintern' (i.e. Stalin) promoted, fits the facts rather well.
    They think they are being very clever in fact, They have been rehearsing these lines for quite a few years.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,450
    edited 2016 07
    Also, criminally, the deficit as a proportion of GDP was higher than GDP growth in all but one year (2006) so our debt to GDP ratio kept rising despite easy growth and other benign conditions.

    Brown was a terrible chancellor, easily one of the worst in recent history.

    Edit: That graph is very misleading, it is the current account deficit as a proportion of GDP and doesn't take into account government spending on investment which under Brown was a joke as he categorised a lot of day to day expenditure as "investment" to hide the true scale of Labour's borrowing.
  • MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Wanderer said:

    For a newcomer, we're talking about this person?
    https://twitter.com/GOsborneGenius/status/685096922005291008

    Acerbic

    Yes. That is tim at his best.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Exactly Max. It is one thing to criticise Osborne but to equate him to Brown is just absurd.
  • GravitationGravitation Posts: 287
    TOPPING said:

    Her talent for talking reaaaaaallllyyyy slowly is such a gift. I never feel patronised.

    Scott_P said:

    @AlexWhiteUK: Do you think the leader's office flips a coin to see whether Ken Livingstone or Diane Abbott are doing media? I think they n a new coin.

    @janemerrick23: Heads they win, tails we lose https://t.co/AccPsth8G3

    Oh please don't stop them. Abbott was atrocious on Newsnight last night. It's shame Paxo isn't around - he'd have skewered her vacuous waffle.
    Now Evvvvvvannnnnnn, Evvvvvannnnnnnnnnnnnn, Evannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn....was pretty much the most coherent part of that interview.
    Dead Ringers have her down v well.
    Now Andrewwwwwww. I, and the people of Hackney....
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    This isn't the first time that Damian McBride has made predictions in this area:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/19/marxist-corbyn-revolution-ken-livingstone-labour

    "If Labour loses London, it will be because once again the suburbs have trumped the inner city, and Khan will waste no time in putting the blame on Corbyn’s absence of appeal to those middle-income voters.

    That is exactly what Livingstone did when he lost in 2008, blaming Gordon Brown’s unpopularity, and nearly triggering his downfall the following weekend. Livingstone’s former advisers may get a taste of their own medicine if Khan loses next May.

    If he does, I confidently predict Corbyn will be gone within a week. He is a fine and decent man, and he will jump before he is pushed. If he doesn’t, the pushing will not take long.

    After that, who knows? But we can guarantee one thing. Somewhere, in the corner of a darkened coffee house, Corbyn’s acolytes will debate where their revolution went wrong, and they will reach the only, inevitable conclusion that Marxists always reach: “We weren’t revolutionary enough”. This is how it always ends."

    Perhaps Damian McBride can be asked whether he stands by that confident prediction made two months ago.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,450

    Exactly Max. It is one thing to criticise Osborne but to equate him to Brown is just absurd.

    I never have in terms of macroeconomic performance or even the deficit. I just think he is too political and tries to run too much from the treasury. If he concentrated more on economic performance and less on his leadership campaign the deficit would be falling faster and we would be better prepared for whatever might come in the near future wrt to a recession or downturn. A deficit of 4% and debt to GDP of 80% is not a safe place to be if we are heading into a period of uncertainty, ideally we would be below 2% on the deficit and the our debt proportion would be falling towards 70%.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Glen OHara
    BTW, #Labour has *never* in the modern age risen from its poll rating at this stage in a Parl to record a better score at the GE. Never.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    edited 2016 07
    @AlastairMeeks - Good spot.

    I have to say I'm sceptical. Of course Damian McBride knows more about Labour scheming than I'll ever know (thank God), but I just don't see the mechanism. So the 200-strong army turns up, McDonnell and Corbyn tell them to get stuffed, then what? "Dugher and McFadden, how many divisions have they got?"

    Speedy put his finger on the problem earlier:
    Speedy said:

    I've got a question for McBride, how can the blairite and brownite machines get 50+1% of the members behind them in order to oust Corbyn.

  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,548
    Wanderer said:

    @plato

    Some of the anti semitism I encounter from people claiming to be liberal astounds me

    Something we agree on
    It is both astounding and a very ugly development. Those so-called "liberals" should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

    For anyone interested in historical parallels it is worth reading the chapter in Paul Berman's book "Terror and Liberalism" on how some French socialists ended up in bed with anti-Semites in the 1930s and 1940s.

  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    edited 2016 07

    @AlastairMeeks - Good spot.

    I have to say I'm sceptical. Of course Damian McBride knows more about Labour scheming than I'll ever know (thank God), but I just don't see the mechanism. So the 200-strong army turns up, McDonnell and Corbyn tell them to get stuffed, then what? "Dugher and McFadden, how many divisions have they got?"

    Speedy put his finger on the problem earlier:

    Speedy said:

    I've got a question for McBride, how can the blairite and brownite machines get 50+1% of the members behind them in order to oust Corbyn.

    If the 200 MPs were nominating a single candidate, not a Benn or Chuka or anyone identifiably from the right, and if that candidate offered a left-wing platform without the fuck-ups, I think that might change matters.

    This is assuming a year of fairly consistently bad news for Labour, of course. And on that front things can only get better.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    MaxPB said:

    Also, criminally, the deficit as a proportion of GDP was higher than GDP growth in all but one year (2006) so our debt to GDP ratio kept rising despite easy growth and other benign conditions.

    Brown was a terrible chancellor, easily one of the worst in recent history.

    Edit: That graph is very misleading, it is the current account deficit as a proportion of GDP and doesn't take into account government spending on investment which under Brown was a joke as he categorised a lot of day to day expenditure as "investment" to hide the true scale of Labour's borrowing.

    Good points
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @ChristianJMay: Livingstone clearly emboldened by new Shadow Defence team. Says his review will now look at whether UK should leave NATO.

    @wesstreeting: What next? Replacing the union flag with a white flag? https://t.co/pb21XP105c
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Wanderer said:

    If the 200 MPs were nominating a single candidate, not a Benn or Chuka or anyone identifiably from the right, and if that candidate offered a left-wing platform without the fuck-ups, I think that might change matters.

    This is assuming a year of fairly consistently bad news for Labour, of course. And on that front things can only get better.

    Four problems with that:

    1. What's the chance of 200 MPs agreeing a single candidate, and no-one challenging the choice? It only takes 35 dissenters to trigger the whole charabanc of another full-blown contest, and the PLP is not, shall we say, the most obviously harmonious group at the moment.

    2. Even if the stitch-up could be managed, it would create havoc because the members would feel they'd been defrauded (they'd be right, as well).

    3. How would the new leader offer a left-wing platform without the fuck-ups? The latter are part of the platform (Trident, anti-Americanism etc). Take those away and you're back to accusations of a Blairite take-over.

    4. Meanwhile the GE is closer, and what's the guarantee that the new leader will actually do any better than Corbyn? He or she might do worse, with the mere fact of the changeover itself being very high-risk.
  • Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    German broadcaster ZDF apologized for delays in reporting of Cologne mass sex attacks https://t.co/SYxd5FxR4F
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,961
    Cyclefree said:

    Wanderer said:

    @plato

    Some of the anti semitism I encounter from people claiming to be liberal astounds me

    Something we agree on
    It is both astounding and a very ugly development. Those so-called "liberals" should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

    For anyone interested in historical parallels it is worth reading the chapter in Paul Berman's book "Terror and Liberalism" on how some French socialists ended up in bed with anti-Semites in the 1930s and 1940s.

    Socialists and Liberals are different, aren't they?
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Wanderer said:

    @AlastairMeeks - Good spot.

    I have to say I'm sceptical. Of course Damian McBride knows more about Labour scheming than I'll ever know (thank God), but I just don't see the mechanism. So the 200-strong army turns up, McDonnell and Corbyn tell them to get stuffed, then what? "Dugher and McFadden, how many divisions have they got?"

    Speedy put his finger on the problem earlier:

    Speedy said:

    I've got a question for McBride, how can the blairite and brownite machines get 50+1% of the members behind them in order to oust Corbyn.

    If the 200 MPs were nominating a single candidate, not a Benn or Chuka or anyone identifiably from the right, and if that candidate offered a left-wing platform without the fuck-ups, I think that might change matters.

    This is assuming a year of fairly consistently bad news for Labour, of course. And on that front things can only get better.
    To be more exact, I think the plan would be to set out a left-wing *domestic* agenda - nationalisation, higher taxes, repeal TU laws etc. It is probably not hard to unite the PLP around that. The absurdity now is that the party is PLP is at loggerheads over foreign policy, which voters don't care about.

    If I turn up as Labour unity candidate saying:

    soak the rich
    soak the not-so-rich
    if it moves nationalise it
    terrorists are bad

    can I get 50.01%?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,755
    McIRA vs McSmear.

    Lovely.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,755

    Wanderer said:

    If the 200 MPs were nominating a single candidate, not a Benn or Chuka or anyone identifiably from the right, and if that candidate offered a left-wing platform without the fuck-ups, I think that might change matters.

    This is assuming a year of fairly consistently bad news for Labour, of course. And on that front things can only get better.

    Four problems with that:

    1. What's the chance of 200 MPs agreeing a single candidate, and no-one challenging the choice? It only takes 35 dissenters to trigger the whole charabanc of another full-blown contest, and the PLP is not, shall we say, the most obviously harmonious group at the moment.

    2. Even if the stitch-up could be managed, it would create havoc because the members would feel they'd been defrauded (they'd be right, as well).

    3. How would the new leader offer a left-wing platform without the fuck-ups? The latter are part of the platform (Trident, anti-Americanism etc). Take those away and you're back to accusations of a Blairite take-over.

    4. Meanwhile the GE is closer, and what's the guarantee that the new leader will actually do any better than Corbyn? He or she might do worse, with the mere fact of the changeover itself being very high-risk.
    We'll have had the Euro referendum. Could be some unknown unknowns from that.
  • JBriskinJBriskin Posts: 2,380
    Fair play to Hodges and Tall - all is well in the bro-code it seems
  • WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    edited 2016 07



    Four problems with that:

    1. What's the chance of 200 MPs agreeing a single candidate, and no-one challenging the choice? It only takes 35 dissenters to trigger the whole charabanc of another full-blown contest, and the PLP is not, shall we say, the most obviously harmonious group at the moment.

    2. Even if the stitch-up could be managed, it would create havoc because the members would feel they'd been defrauded (they'd be right, as well).

    3. How would the new leader offer a left-wing platform without the fuck-ups? The latter are part of the platform (Trident, anti-Americanism etc). Take those away and you're back to accusations of a Blairite take-over.

    4. Meanwhile the GE is closer, and what's the guarantee that the new leader will actually do any better than Corbyn? He or she might do worse, with the mere fact of the changeover itself being very high-risk.

    1 is hard but that's where the machine politicking comes in.

    2 Maybe. If things go badly in May and the party tanks in the polls then a growing number of left-wing members are surely going to be unhappy and might accept if it doesn't look like a Blairite putsch. Of course the party will probably get something from May and may not tank.

    3 Process fuck-ups (as Hopi Sen put it the other day) can be avoided. Quoting Mao, being ambivalent about shooting terrorists, those SIWs can be avoided. They would be anti-Trident (not seen a fuck-up by the Labour membership, I think).

    4. True. There is a risk but I think it will be easy to argue doing nothing is a greater risk.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    edited 2016 07
    SeanT said:

    German broadcaster ZDF apologized for delays in reporting of Cologne mass sex attacks https://t.co/SYxd5FxR4F

    Der Spiegel is reporting that the suspects so far are 14 Syrians and 1 Afghani, all asylum seekers. And that far from being "minor" as originally claimed, the police feared fatalities.

    Just explosive for Merkel.

    This might explain the cover-up, if you are conspiratorially-minded
    The accounts coming out just get worse and worse. People saying around the cathedral has been a long time dodgy area are missing the point. This is far worse than just pick-pocketing (which apparently has become a problem, that never used to be in central Cologne until recently), although that was part of the lawlessness.

    The description of the "waltzers" that have appeared in recent years and their "playful" ways to pickpocket you is a world away from the personal accounts. Descriptions of having to run the gantlet just to escape, women screaming and crying and being cornered by large groups of men.

    I find it rather strange we haven't had any CCTV footage leak. It is a major tourist area and the main train station. You would presume the place would be crawling with cameras.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,450
    I think the idea of a stitch up by MPs is a non-starter, all of these new activists they have won't be very helpful come election time when doors need to knocked and leaflets dropped if they go down that route.

    No, the only way to do it is for MPs to begin getting moderate people back on board and to convince moderates that without a reasonable centre-left voice the nation will be left to Tory domination and the only way to avoid that is to join the party and begin challenging the extreme-left dogma of Corbyn and his acolytes.

    Without shifting the membership back towards the centre any kind of coup against Corbyn will amount to nothing. It would be better for Labour MPs to take their time, get their pieces in place, let Corbyn take the hit of multiple election losses at the locals to weaken him, start talking up one of Umuna, Hunt or Creasy and get Watson to resign the day after another battering at the local and EU elections in 2019.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    SeanT said:

    German broadcaster ZDF apologized for delays in reporting of Cologne mass sex attacks https://t.co/SYxd5FxR4F

    Der Spiegel is reporting that the suspects so far are 14 Syrians and 1 Afghani, all asylum seekers. And that far from being "minor" as originally claimed, the police feared fatalities.

    Just explosive for Merkel.

    This might explain the cover-up, if you are conspiratorially-minded
    The accounts coming out just get worse and worse. People saying around the cathedral has been a long time dodgy area are missing the point. This is far worse than just pick-pocketing (which apparently has become a problem, that never used to be in central Cologne until recently), although that was part of the lawlessness.
    At least it's not taking decades to come out like the celebrity cases we have had here.

    I stand by my thinking that the common thread running through all this (including both Rotherham and allegedly Jimmy Saville etc) is not race but instead not standing squarely up for victims and in many cases not believing victims. Whether the victim or perpertrator is any ethnicity should be irrelevant the victim should be believed unless shown to be a liar and should be supported with the crime taken seriously.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,450

    Jeremy Corbyn is going nowhere until the Labour party membership decide that it's time for a new face. If he has many more weeks like this week, that may come sooner than I'd expected even at the turn of the year.

    I don't think the majority of Labour members are as rational as you suggest. Most are deluded and think it is all a conspiracy, the ones who aren't like that have left and been replaced by the loony left.
This discussion has been closed.