Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Now Labour’s divisions are being talked about as being “a P

1235»

Comments

  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,164
    Emily Thornberry will be seeing lots of flags in her new role.

    I hope she tweets them all....

    #flagsarefun
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,741
    edited 2016 06

    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    @rowenamason: Maria Eagle is the new shadow culture secretary

    And she is happy with that? Sheeeeesh.
    Silly woman, happy to be trampled on. As suggested the 'rebels are not up for it.
    Who is the shadow First Secretary of State then? Thornberry?
    She is anti Trident so we can see the direction of travel for Labour. Plus as she worked for Mansfield QC she ticks lots of lefty boxes.
    ANGELA Eagle was (and still is, at least at this moment!) Shadow First Sec of State - not MARIA Eagle.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,779
    isam said:
    If it is substantive then you should send them an invoice and follow up. They cough when pushed.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,755
    edited 2016 06
    MattW said:

    isam said:
    If it is substantive then you should send them an invoice and follow up. They cough when pushed.
    It makes the article !

    Stokes narked off that his decent delivery went for a flukey 4.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281

    The remarks that allegedly got McFadden sacked:

    May I ask the Prime Minister to reject the view that sees terrorist acts as always being a response or a reaction to what we in the west do? Does he agree that such an approach risks infantilising the terrorists and treating them like children, when the truth is that they are adults who are entirely responsible for what they do? No one forces them to kill innocent people in Paris or Beirut. Unless we are clear about that, we will fail even to understand the threat we face, let alone confront it and ultimately overcome it.

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmhansrd/cm151117/debtext/151117-0001.htm#15111751000636

    Who could object to that? A Terrorist Sympathiser, possibly, but who else?

    A yawning bear trap, but oh well....

    I strongly object to it, on the basis that it's making the issue into a totally disingenuous simplistic binary choice between
    a - Terrorist responsible
    b - Terrorist not responsible

    I would be totally against someone who said 'let's not attack the terrorists because if we do they will get angry and retaliate'. But I would be wholly for the view that ISIS have required a number of things to succeed, namely weakened or absent power structures ('West' largely responsible), unhindered recruitment ('West' partly responsible), porous borders ('West' partly responsible), huge funding ('West' partly responsible) etc. It is entirely reasonable for 'the West' to look coldly at these issues and try (hollow laugh) to learn from the mistakes of the past, without removing the moral agency of the individual terrorist.

    If I were Corbyn I wouldn't want someone unable to make this simple distinction in my front bench team.
    The fact that you can't see what McFadden was saying says a hell of a lot about your mindset.

    The only person being disingenuous is you.
    Thank you.

    Saved me the effort.

    He would be a 'useful idiot', but I doubt he's useful......
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    Scott_P said:
    Remarkable, never seen a ship completely covered in flags before...
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @adamboultonSKY: So as I stated earlier anti-Trident is the substance of this reshuffle
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052
    edited 2016 06

    The remarks that allegedly got McFadden sacked:

    May I ask the Prime Minister to reject the view that sees terrorist acts as always being a response or a reaction to what we in the west do? Does he agree that such an approach risks infantilising the terrorists and treating them like children, when the truth is that they are adults who are entirely responsible for what they do? No one forces them to kill innocent people in Paris or Beirut. Unless we are clear about that, we will fail even to understand the threat we face, let alone confront it and ultimately overcome it.

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmhansrd/cm151117/debtext/151117-0001.htm#15111751000636

    Who could object to that? A Terrorist Sympathiser, possibly, but who else?

    A yawning bear trap, but oh well....

    I strongly object to it, on the basis that it's making the issue into a totally disingenuous simplistic binary choice between
    a - Terrorist responsible
    b - Terrorist not responsible

    I would be totally against someone who said 'let's not attack the terrorists because if we do they will get angry and retaliate'. But I would be wholly for the view that ISIS have required a number of things to succeed, namely weakened or absent power structures ('West' largely responsible), unhindered recruitment ('West' partly responsible), porous borders ('West' partly responsible), huge funding ('West' partly responsible) etc. It is entirely reasonable for 'the West' to look coldly at these issues and try (hollow laugh) to learn from the mistakes of the past, without removing the moral agency of the individual terrorist.

    If I were Corbyn I wouldn't want someone unable to make this simple distinction in my front bench team.
    Except Corbyn and those like him are the ones who make that binary distinction by having such fixed, automatic interpretations of these issues, without any hesitation or nuance. Whether they mean it or not by having that automatic view they remove agency from the perpetrators and that is presumably what he McFadden was criticising. If Corbyn and co presented the point as you have in a believable way (that is, not undermined by the instinctual nature of their interpretation) the criticism would not have been put in such a way I imagine.

    And no more reshuffle for me.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    MattW said:

    William_H said:

    Colour me stunned

    A leading figure behind the doctors’ strike likened Conservative policies to Nazi propaganda, and is among several supporters of Labour and Jeremy Corbyn on the British Medical Association’s council, it can be disclosed.

    Dr Kailash Chand said that Joseph Goebbels, Adolf Hitler’s propaganda chief, would be “proud” of Tory policies on education, health and the economy under



    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12083717/Junior-doctors-strike-Leading-BMA-figure-likened-Tory-policies-to-Nazi-propaganda.html

    "Person Supports Major Political Party"
    Dr Kailash Chand, eh? He's a little self-collapsing.

    That's the chap who has written about 30 articles for Tribune Magazine?
    http://www.tribunemagazine.org/author/kailash-chand/

    The chap who has written for Class Online:
    http://classonline.org.uk/about/authors/dr-kailash-chand

    The chap who has such superb judgement about health that he appeared in a labour Left fringe meeting at Labour Conference 2014:
    http://www.gponline.com/labour-save-nhs-warns-dr-kailash-chand/article/1313687

    Labour Left is the "think" tank founded by Eoin Clarke.

    I'd say Dr Chand needs to explain why he, as a senior BMA bod, is associating with a man who ran a multi-year campaign of lies about various people and bodies in Health and had to apologise in public.

    Virgin Care:
    http://www.greenbenchesuk.com/2012/12/an-apology-to-virgin-care-for.html
    Anna Soubry:
    http://www.greenbenchesuk.com/2012/11/corrections-concerning-ms-anna-soubry-mp.html

    I love that the good Dr puts his OBE on his Twitter handle:
    https://twitter.com/KailashChandOBE/status/404549916640698369

    What all that about the Doctor's strike being about patients not politics?

    Or, as the BMA put it:

    "A BMA spokesman said: “The BMA is an apolitical organisation. The call for industrial action was made by junior doctors themselves, with 98 per cent voting in favour of taking action, demonstrating the strength of feeling amongst the profession against government proposals that are unsafe and unfair.” "

    If the BMA is a non-political organisation they need to do something to salvage their reputation. And get some slightly sensible people to coach their Juniors.
    Dr Chand is not the BMA, though he is an elected member of Council.

    98% of Junior Doctors are not Trotskite militants. They know a bad deal when they see one.

    The BMA have been a famously supine organisation in the past (which is why I joined the rival HCSA), particularly over the botched MMC/MTAS reforms of 2007. If they hadn't backed the Junior Doctors negotiating team then most likely the juniors would have broken away. This is a strike demanded by the grassroots not the BMA leaders.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,755
    For my fellow The Big Bang Theory fans, I think I'm going to do a thread headlined 'Fun with Flags
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903
    MikeL said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_P said:

    @rowenamason: Maria Eagle is the new shadow culture secretary

    And she is happy with that? Sheeeeesh.
    Silly woman, happy to be trampled on. As suggested the 'rebels are not up for it.
    Who is the shadow First Secretary of State then? Thornberry?
    She is anti Trident so we can see the direction of travel for Labour. Plus as she worked for Mansfield QC she ticks lots of lefty boxes.
    ANGELA Eagle was (and still is, at least at this moment!) Shadow First Sec of State - not MARIA Eagle.
    I've been reading the Telegraph too much. At least I know the difference between Cannon and Ball.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,482
    isam said:
    Congrats!
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Tom said:

    Tom said:

    Colour me stunned

    A leading figure behind the doctors’ strike likened Conservative policies to Nazi propaganda, and is among several supporters of Labour and Jeremy Corbyn on the British Medical Association’s council, it can be disclosed.

    Dr Kailash Chand said that Joseph Goebbels, Adolf Hitler’s propaganda chief, would be “proud” of Tory policies on education, health and the economy under the Coalition.

    He separately nicknamed Simon Burns, the then health minister, “Goebbels”. Dr Chand is one of two members of the BMA’s council who declare that they are Labour members. But several others are supporters of Mr Corbyn and the Labour Party, a Telegraph investigation reveals.

    One senior BMA member, who backed Mr Corbyn’s leadership, wrote in a posting on the website of the doctors’ union that success in their campaign against government proposals to change junior doctors’ contracts would signal “the first real crack in the entire edifice of austerity in the UK”.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12083717/Junior-doctors-strike-Leading-BMA-figure-likened-Tory-policies-to-Nazi-propaganda.html

    98% of junior doctors, some of the most highly educated and numerate people in the country voted to strike if Hunt imposed his contract. A further 1.5% voted for Industrial action short of strike. This was on a 76% turnout. Junior Doctors of all political stripes voted against the contract. This is not a strike being orchestrated by Trotskyists, this is a highly astute workforce who know when they are being shafted


    And a group of people who as recently as Thatcher would have voted Conservative in large numbers.
    Do the Tories really need Doctors any more? I doubt the party has ever been so unpopular with the educated middle classes. Is that such a problem though? Maybe good headlines in the tabloid media matter more.
    Depends whether they have the ambition of ever topping 40% again and having a comfortable majority. And also whether they want young doctors to emigrate because they get paid better for less gyp and afford a house before they are 40. Clearly in the absence of an opposition they can currently write off huge swathes of the working electorate as long as they fill pensioners mouths with gold. Don't think it's sustainable for our country or the economy though.
    Many ways to stuff doctors. Remove all restrictions on medical school entrants, make the cost of getting a medical degree more reflective in tuition fees, maybe add an extra tier to tuition costs.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641

    MattW said:

    William_H said:

    Colour me stunned

    A leading figure behind the doctors’ strike likened Conservative policies to Nazi propaganda, and is among several supporters of Labour and Jeremy Corbyn on the British Medical Association’s council, it can be disclosed.

    Dr Kailash Chand said that Joseph Goebbels, Adolf Hitler’s propaganda chief, would be “proud” of Tory policies on education, health and the economy under



    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12083717/Junior-doctors-strike-Leading-BMA-figure-likened-Tory-policies-to-Nazi-propaganda.html

    "Person Supports Major Political Party"
    Dr Kailash Chand, eh? He's a little self-collapsing.

    That's the chap who has written about 30 articles for Tribune Magazine?
    http://www.tribunemagazine.org/author/kailash-chand/

    The chap who has written for Class Online:
    http://classonline.org.uk/about/authors/dr-kailash-chand

    The chap who has such superb judgement about health that he appeared in a labour Left fringe meeting at Labour Conference 2014:
    http://www.gponline.com/labour-save-nhs-warns-dr-kailash-chand/article/1313687

    Labour Left is the "think" tank founded by Eoin Clarke.

    I'd say Dr Chand needs to explain why he, as a senior BMA bod, is associating with a man who ran a multi-year campaign of lies about various people and bodies in Health and had to apologise in public.

    Virgin Care:
    http://www.greenbenchesuk.com/2012/12/an-apology-to-virgin-care-for.html
    Anna Soubry:
    http://www.greenbenchesuk.com/2012/11/corrections-concerning-ms-anna-soubry-mp.html

    I l
    Or, as the BMA put it:

    "A BMA spokesman said: “The BMA is an apolitical organisation. The call for industrial action was strength of feeling amongst the profession against government proposals that are unsafe and unfair.” "

    If the BMA is a non-political organisation they need to do something to salvage their reputation. And get some slightly sensible people to coach their Juniors.
    Dr Chand is not the BMA, though he is an elected member of Council.

    98% of Junior Doctors are not Trotskite militants. They know a bad deal when they see one.

    The BMA have been a famously supine organisation in the past (which is why I joined the rival HCSA), particularly over the botched MMC/MTAS reforms of 2007. If they hadn't backed the Junior Doctors negotiating team then most likely the juniors would have broken away. This is a strike demanded by the grassroots not the BMA leaders.

    I do wish PBers would stop using the word "Trotskyist" - everyone knows Trotskyists are tools of the Capitalists!

    http://www.cpgb-ml.org/index.php?secName=leaflets&subName=display&leafletId=89
  • BaskervilleBaskerville Posts: 391
    edited 2016 06
    Tumbrils and Tumbleweed.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641

    For my fellow The Big Bang Theory fans, I think I'm going to do a thread headlined 'Fun with Flags

    "I can do this! I can do this!" :)
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,164
    Corbo has managed to demonstrate just how weak he really is within the PLP. At the same time as doing nothing to strengthen his position by being unable to sack Benn or rid himself of A. Eagle.

    And Red Ken has been ramping in the media.

    Someone teach the leader some game theory.

    And perhaps some quick decision making skills at the same time.

    And maybe give Ken some media training.



    Dya know what - it might be easier just to get the grown ups back. Paging Lord Mandelson.....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,234
    Scott_P said:
    I really hope she posts a picture of a white ensign flying on a ship on twitter with the comment "Image from #HMNBPortsmouth".
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,482

    The remarks that allegedly got McFadden sacked:

    May I ask the Prime Minister to reject the view that sees terrorist acts as always being a response or a reaction to what we in the west do? Does he agree that such an approach risks infantilising the terrorists and treating them like children, when the truth is that they are adults who are entirely responsible for what they do? No one forces them to kill innocent people in Paris or Beirut. Unless we are clear about that, we will fail even to understand the threat we face, let alone confront it and ultimately overcome it.

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmhansrd/cm151117/debtext/151117-0001.htm#15111751000636

    Who could object to that? A Terrorist Sympathiser, possibly, but who else?

    A yawning bear trap, but oh well....

    I strongly object to it, on the basis that it's making the issue into a totally disingenuous simplistic binary choice between
    a - Terrorist responsible
    b - Terrorist not responsible

    I would be totally against someone who said 'let's not attack the terrorists because if we do they will get angry and retaliate'. But I would be wholly for the view that ISIS have required a number of things to succeed, namely weakened or absent power structures ('West' largely responsible), unhindered recruitment ('West' partly responsible), porous borders ('West' partly responsible), huge funding ('West' partly responsible) etc. It is entirely reasonable for 'the West' to look coldly at these issues and try (hollow laugh) to learn from the mistakes of the past, without removing the moral agency of the individual terrorist.

    If I were Corbyn I wouldn't want someone unable to make this simple distinction in my front bench team.
    The fact that you can't see what McFadden was saying says a hell of a lot about your mindset.

    The only person being disingenuous is you.
    Thank you.

    Saved me the effort.

    He would be a 'useful idiot', but I doubt he's useful......
    Oh stop it you two, I'm really cut to the quick.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,755
    Chortle.

    Thornberry took donations from Law firm that cashed in on false claims against British soldiers

    http://dailym.ai/1RgkD7O
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    Mortimer said:


    Someone teach the leader some game theory.

    A man who got two E's at A-Level is going to struggle with the old Game Theory and GTO approaches.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,741
    edited 2016 06
    One thing that has to be said about Corbyn is he is honest in the sense that:

    He could shut up about Defence and Foreign Affairs and just push his left-wing economic policy. He might well still not win a GE but he would at least have a chance.

    But by doing all the Defence and Foreign Affairs stuff he literally commits suicide electorally.

    Consider what happened at GE 2015 with Ed and then just add into the cocktail that at every single moment Corbyn is going to come under ferocious attack for leaving the country defenceless and supporting terrorists.

    It is going to lead to total annihilation for Lab.
  • flightpath01flightpath01 Posts: 4,903

    The remarks that allegedly got McFadden sacked:

    May I ask the Prime Minister to reject the view that sees terrorist acts as always being a response or a reaction to what we in the west do? Does he agree that such an approach risks infantilising the terrorists and treating them like children, when the truth is that they are adults who are entirely responsible for what they do? No one forces them to kill innocent people in Paris or Beirut. Unless we are clear about that, we will fail even to understand the threat we face, let alone confront it and ultimately overcome it.

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmhansrd/cm151117/debtext/151117-0001.htm#15111751000636

    Who could object to that? A Terrorist Sympathiser, possibly, but who else?

    A yawning bear trap, but oh well....

    I strongly object to it,.... etc
    I think you are a horrible person.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,482
    kle4 said:

    The remarks that allegedly got McFadden sacked:

    May I ask the Prime Minister to reject the view that sees terrorist acts as always being a response or a reaction to what we in the west do? Does he agree that such an approach risks infantilising the terrorists and treating them like children, when the truth is that they are adults who are entirely responsible for what they do? No one forces them to kill innocent people in Paris or Beirut. Unless we are clear about that, we will fail even to understand the threat we face, let alone confront it and ultimately overcome it.

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmhansrd/cm151117/debtext/151117-0001.htm#15111751000636

    Who could object to that? A Terrorist Sympathiser, possibly, but who else?

    A yawning bear trap, but oh well....

    I strongly object to it, on the basis that it's making the issue into a totally disingenuous simplistic binary choice between
    a - Terrorist responsible
    b - Terrorist not responsible

    I would be totally against someone who said 'let's not attack the terrorists because if we do they will get angry and retaliate'. But I would be wholly for the view that ISIS have required a number of things to succeed, namely weakened or absent power structures ('West' largely responsible), unhindered recruitment ('West' partly responsible), porous borders ('West' partly responsible), huge funding ('West' partly responsible) etc. It is entirely reasonable for 'the West' to look coldly at these issues and try (hollow laugh) to learn from the mistakes of the past, without removing the moral agency of the individual terrorist.

    If I were Corbyn I wouldn't want someone unable to make this simple distinction in my front bench team.
    Except Corbyn and those like him are the ones who make that binary distinction by having such fixed, automatic interpretations of these issues, without any hesitation or nuance. Whether they mean it or not by having that automatic view they remove agency from the perpetrators and that is presumably what he McFadden was criticising. If Corbyn and co presented the point as you have in a believable way (that is, not undermined by the instinctual nature of their interpretation) the criticism would not have been put in such a way I imagine.

    And no more reshuffle for me.
    You may well be right - I'm not defending Corbyn, that's just how the statement appeared to me in isolation.

    Thanks for giving such a considered, intelligent and adult response too.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,354

    Mortimer said:


    Someone teach the leader some game theory.

    A man who got two E's at A-Level is going to struggle with the old Game Theory and GTO approaches.
    Thought you meant GTA for a moment but that would probably be right too.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    notme said:

    Tom said:

    Tom said:

    Colour me stunned

    A leading figure behind the doctors’ strike likened Conservative policies to Nazi propaganda, and is among several supporters of Labour and Jeremy Corbyn on the British Medical Association’s council, it can be disclosed.

    Dr Kailash Chand said that Joseph Goebbels, Adolf

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12083717/Junior-doctors-strike-Leading-BMA-figure-likened-Tory-policies-to-Nazi-propaganda.html

    98% of junior doctors, some of the most highly educated and numerate people in the country voted to strike if Hunt imposed his contract. A further 1.5% voted for Industrial action short of strike. This was on a 76% turnout. Junior Doctors of all political stripes voted against the contract. This is not a strike being orchestrated by Trotskyists, this is a highly astute workforce who know when they are being shafted


    And a group of people who as recently as Thatcher would have voted Conservative in large numbers.
    Do the Tories really need Doctors any more? I doubt the party has ever been so unpopular with the educated middle classes. Is that such a problem though? Maybe good headlines in the tabloid media matter more.
    Depends whether they have the ambition of ever topping 40% again and having a comfortable majority. And also whether they want young doctors to emigrate because they get paid better for less gyp and afford a house before they are 40. Clearly in the absence of an opposition they can currently write off huge swathes of the working electorate as long as they fill pensioners mouths with gold. Don't think it's sustainable for our country or the economy though.
    Many ways to stuff doctors. Remove all restrictions on medical school entrants, make the cost of getting a medical degree more reflective in tuition fees, maybe add an extra tier to tuition costs.
    None of that could take effect on the number of Junior Doctors for at least 5 and more realistically 10 years. We already have recruitment and retention crisis with half of GP training posts unfilled in the East Midlands for example.

    Leaving the EU would make it a lot harder to fill the gaps with Greek, Polish or Romanian Doctors too.

  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,164

    Chortle.

    Thornberry took donations from Law firm that cashed in on false claims against British soldiers

    http://dailym.ai/1RgkD7O

    I hope this story runs again.

    And I hope it involves flags the second time around.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    Emma two names?!

    Emma Lowell Buck promoted to shadow min for devolution and local govt

    Who? What?
    Poshest name in parliament?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,755
    Mortimer said:

    Chortle.

    Thornberry took donations from Law firm that cashed in on false claims against British soldiers

    http://dailym.ai/1RgkD7O

    I hope this story runs again.

    And I hope it involves flags the second time around.
    They were in the news yesterday

    Lawyers face prospect of being struck off over Iraq abuse claims

    Leigh Day, Britain's leading human rights law firm, is facing a disciplinary inquiry over the shredding of a document which could have halted a £31m inquiry into false allegations of murder and torture by British troops

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/12083609/Lawyers-face-prospect-of-being-struck-off-over-Iraq-abuse-claims.html
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293

    notme said:

    Tom said:

    Tom said:

    Colour me stunned

    A leading figure behind the doctors’ strike likened Conservative policies to Nazi propaganda, and is among several supporters of Labour and Jeremy Corbyn on the British Medical Association’s council, it can be disclosed.

    Dr Kailash Chand said that Joseph Goebbels, Adolf

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/12083717/Junior-doctors-strike-Leading-BMA-figure-likened-Tory-policies-to-Nazi-propaganda.html

    98% of junior doctors, some of the most highly educated and numerate people in the country voted to strike if Hunt imposed his contract. A further 1.5% voted for Industrial action short of strike. This was on a 76% turnout. Junior Doctors of all political stripes voted against the contract. This is not a strike being orchestrated by Trotskyists, this is a highly astute workforce who know when they are being shafted


    And a group of people who as recently as Thatcher would have voted Conservative in large numbers.
    Do the Tories really need Doctors any more? I doubt the party has ever been so unpopular with the educated middle classes. Is that such a problem though? Maybe good headlines in the tabloid media matter more.
    Depends whether they have the ambition of ever topping 40% again and having a comfortable majority. And also whether they want young doctors to emigrate because they get paid better for less gyp and afford a house before they are 40. Clearly in the absence of an opposition they can currently write off huge swathes of the working electorate as long as they fill pensioners mouths with gold. Don't think it's sustainable for our country or the economy though.
    Many ways to stuff doctors. Remove all restrictions on medical school entrants, make the cost of getting a medical degree more reflective in tuition fees, maybe add an extra tier to tuition costs.
    None of that could take effect on the number of Junior Doctors for at least 5 and more realistically 10 years. We already have recruitment and retention crisis with half of GP training posts unfilled in the East Midlands for example.

    Leaving the EU would make it a lot harder to fill the gaps with Greek, Polish or Romanian Doctors too.


    The business of government carries on, massively increase the supply. Five years rolls buy very quickly. There's an argument for doctors on their first rotations to be paid nothing but subsistence wages. They are little more than apprentices.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,164
    Sacking two experienced people for making really quite reasonable comments about really quite unusual Labour party positions thrown about by the newly elected and monumentally unpopular leader is really, really thick.

    From a pure power play point of view, what is even thicker is leaving the in the cabinet more vocal critics.

    Labour to poll under UKIP this parliament?

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,482

    The remarks that allegedly got McFadden sacked:

    May I ask the Prime Minister to reject the view that sees terrorist acts as always being a response or a reaction to what we in the west do? Does he agree that such an approach risks infantilising the terrorists and treating them like children, when the truth is that they are adults who are entirely responsible for what they do? No one forces them to kill innocent people in Paris or Beirut. Unless we are clear about that, we will fail even to understand the threat we face, let alone confront it and ultimately overcome it.

    http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201516/cmhansrd/cm151117/debtext/151117-0001.htm#15111751000636

    Who could object to that? A Terrorist Sympathiser, possibly, but who else?

    A yawning bear trap, but oh well....

    I strongly object to it,.... etc
    I think you are a horrible person.
    Thanks. I don't really believe in categorising people as 'horrible' - certainly not from contributions to a message board. That's why I'd tentatively categorise you as a very troubled person. Unless your PB persona is some sort of fictional conceit, I don't see how you can be so consistently unpleasant, on a personal level, to anyone who disagrees with you, without carrying an enormous weight of bitterness. I wish you every success with dealing with whatever it is that's causing the problem, and enough self-awareness to see the irony of the statement above, because I don't think the way you carry on currently is conducive to happiness or health.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    notme said:

    Emma two names?!

    Emma Lowell Buck promoted to shadow min for devolution and local govt

    Who? What?
    Poshest name in parliament?
    Not a chance.

    I give you:

    Richard Grosvenor Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Drax
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Emily Thornberry as Shadow Defence Secretary is the single most ridiculous political development in the last 20 years IMO.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MichaelDugher: @ChrisMasonBBC not sure it's sensible for the leader and his office to get into a debate about "loyalty" or "competence", do you...?!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,281
    Comic timing isn’t usually Dave’s strong point, but for once he landed a moderately effective pre-cooked line. “No matter how many Eagles there are,” said Cameron, “the Labour party will always have an albatross at the head of the party.” Angela Eagle seemed to find this funnier than anyone else in the chamber, laughing longer and louder than the joke deserved. Corbyn flushed with anger while Dave looked nonplussed; he’d never received such an enthusiastic reaction to one of his gags. Even from his family. Especially from them.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jan/05/jon-crace-camerons-recollection-of-eu-summit-is-a-christmas-miracle
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    Mortimer said:

    Chortle.

    Thornberry took donations from Law firm that cashed in on false claims against British soldiers

    http://dailym.ai/1RgkD7O

    I hope this story runs again.

    And I hope it involves flags the second time around.
    They were in the news yesterday

    Lawyers face prospect of being struck off over Iraq abuse claims

    Leigh Day, Britain's leading human rights law firm, is facing a disciplinary inquiry over the shredding of a document which could have halted a £31m inquiry into false allegations of murder and torture by British troops

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/12083609/Lawyers-face-prospect-of-being-struck-off-over-Iraq-abuse-claims.html
    It saddens me enormously that we have any law firm that makes a living from the exploitation of our dreadful Human Rights legislation.

    It brings our entire legal system into disrepute that they use this to undermine natural justice time after time.
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    AndyJS said:

    Emily Thornberry as Shadow Defence Secretary is the single most ridiculous political development in the last 20 years IMO.

    I think you're overlooking Jeremy Corbyn as LotO!
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    Charles said:

    notme said:

    Emma two names?!

    Emma Lowell Buck promoted to shadow min for devolution and local govt

    Who? What?
    Poshest name in parliament?
    Not a chance.

    I give you:

    Richard Grosvenor Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Drax
    Fantastic name....
  • SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976
    edited 2016 06
    AndyJS said:

    Emily Thornberry as Shadow Defence Secretary is the single most ridiculous political development in the last 20 years IMO.

    Thornberry is less qualified in this position than Estelle Morris was in Education.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,755

    AndyJS said:

    Emily Thornberry as Shadow Defence Secretary is the single most ridiculous political development in the last 20 years IMO.

    I think you're overlooking Jeremy Corbyn as LotO!
    and John McDonnell as shadow Chancellor
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    notme said:

    Charles said:

    notme said:

    Emma two names?!

    Emma Lowell Buck promoted to shadow min for devolution and local govt

    Who? What?
    Poshest name in parliament?
    Not a chance.

    I give you:

    Richard Grosvenor Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Drax
    Fantastic name....
    He's a Tory...
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,164

    Mortimer said:

    Chortle.

    Thornberry took donations from Law firm that cashed in on false claims against British soldiers

    http://dailym.ai/1RgkD7O

    I hope this story runs again.

    And I hope it involves flags the second time around.
    They were in the news yesterday

    Lawyers face prospect of being struck off over Iraq abuse claims

    Leigh Day, Britain's leading human rights law firm, is facing a disciplinary inquiry over the shredding of a document which could have halted a £31m inquiry into false allegations of murder and torture by British troops

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/12083609/Lawyers-face-prospect-of-being-struck-off-over-Iraq-abuse-claims.html
    It saddens me enormously that we have any law firm that makes a living from the exploitation of our dreadful Human Rights legislation.

    It brings our entire legal system into disrepute that they use this to undermine natural justice time after time.
    Dreadful isn't it.

    Ought to be used as an excuse for root and branch review of the legal profession.

    Advertisements banned. No win no fee banned etc
  • Tissue_PriceTissue_Price Posts: 9,039
    If he only sacks his critics two at a time, then this reshuffle/briefing/bloodletting cycle is going to repeat every 6 months. It's just all such a shambles. Given his mandate, he is entitled to his policies, but there's no excuse for cocking up the basic mechanics of politics.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,234
    Charles said:

    notme said:

    Charles said:

    notme said:

    Emma two names?!

    Emma Lowell Buck promoted to shadow min for devolution and local govt

    Who? What?
    Poshest name in parliament?
    Not a chance.

    I give you:

    Richard Grosvenor Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Drax
    Fantastic name....
    He's a Tory...
    Fantastic person all round... ;)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,755
    edited 2016 06
    Charles said:

    notme said:

    Charles said:

    notme said:

    Emma two names?!

    Emma Lowell Buck promoted to shadow min for devolution and local govt

    Who? What?
    Poshest name in parliament?
    Not a chance.

    I give you:

    Richard Grosvenor Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Drax
    Fantastic name....
    He's a Tory...
    And his Dad was the inspiration for a Bond villain.

    Correction his Grandfather
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    RobD said:

    Charles said:

    notme said:

    Charles said:

    notme said:

    Emma two names?!

    Emma Lowell Buck promoted to shadow min for devolution and local govt

    Who? What?
    Poshest name in parliament?
    Not a chance.

    I give you:

    Richard Grosvenor Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Drax
    Fantastic name....
    He's a Tory...
    Fantastic person all round... ;)
    Serving the people of South Dorsetshire for 500 years
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,234
    From the Telegraph:

    'It's not only about Trident'
    It's not only about trident, Labour sources say. Maria Eagle wanted Culture job "anyway".

    Yes, Department for Culture, Media, and Sport, one of the great offices of state.
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    RobD said:

    From the Telegraph:

    'It's not only about Trident'
    It's not only about trident, Labour sources say. Maria Eagle wanted Culture job "anyway".

    Yes, Department for Culture, Media, and Sport, one of the great offices of state.

    You get good freebies to major national sporting and cultural events.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,164

    RobD said:

    From the Telegraph:

    'It's not only about Trident'
    It's not only about trident, Labour sources say. Maria Eagle wanted Culture job "anyway".

    Yes, Department for Culture, Media, and Sport, one of the great offices of state.

    You get good freebies to major national sporting and cultural events.
    Arguably you MAY see even more flags. Surprised Thornberry didn't want it.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,164
    Wait, no promotion for Burgon?
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844
    Mortimer said:

    RobD said:

    From the Telegraph:

    'It's not only about Trident'
    It's not only about trident, Labour sources say. Maria Eagle wanted Culture job "anyway".

    Yes, Department for Culture, Media, and Sport, one of the great offices of state.

    You get good freebies to major national sporting and cultural events.
    Arguably you MAY see even more flags. Surprised Thornberry didn't want it.
    Can we find a way of tapping into her cable or satellite feed and just forcing her to watch reruns of Last Night of the Proms?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,755
    So Dugher is the only casualty?

    Ker-ching
  • oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,844

    So Dugher is the only casualty?

    Ker-ching

    Do we actually know that it is over?

    We don't know who the McFadden replacement is...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,154
    Some moves to the left in other posts but Hilary Benn stays as Shadow Foreign Secretary and must now be the odds-on successor to Corbyn before the next election if he stumbles at the polls
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,234
    HYUFD said:

    Some moves to the left in other posts but Hilary Benn stays as Shadow Foreign Secretary and must now be the odds-on successor to Corbyn before the next election if he stumbles at the polls

    I can hear surbiton gnashing his teeth from here.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,164
    HYUFD said:

    Some moves to the left in other posts but Hilary Benn stays as Shadow Foreign Secretary and must now be the odds-on successor to Corbyn before the next election if he stumbles at the polls

    A highly original thought, that.
  • notmenotme Posts: 3,293
    RobD said:

    From the Telegraph:

    'It's not only about Trident'
    It's not only about trident, Labour sources say. Maria Eagle wanted Culture job "anyway".

    Yes, Department for Culture, Media, and Sport, one of the great offices of state.

    Let the wee lassies make the tea and coffee and let the men folk do all the important stuff.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161
    Oooohhh! There's a new Christopher Brookmyre out next week. His Sacred Art of Stealing, and A Big Boy Did It and Ran Away are two of favourite novels of all time.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,154
    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Some moves to the left in other posts but Hilary Benn stays as Shadow Foreign Secretary and must now be the odds-on successor to Corbyn before the next election if he stumbles at the polls

    A highly original thought, that.
    Well having strengthened his position after Corbyn's botched reshuffle against all the odds he is looking even more like the leader in waiting
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,932
    edited 2016 06
    Mortimer said:

    Mortimer said:

    Chortle.

    Thornberry took donations from Law firm that cashed in on false claims against British soldiers

    http://dailym.ai/1RgkD7O

    I hope this story runs again.

    And I hope it involves flags the second time around.
    They were in the news yesterday

    Lawyers face prospect of being struck off over Iraq abuse claims

    Leigh Day, Britain's leading human rights law firm, is facing a disciplinary inquiry over the shredding of a document which could have halted a £31m inquiry into false allegations of murder and torture by British troops

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/12083609/Lawyers-face-prospect-of-being-struck-off-over-Iraq-abuse-claims.html
    It saddens me enormously that we have any law firm that makes a living from the exploitation of our dreadful Human Rights legislation.

    It brings our entire legal system into disrepute that they use this to undermine natural justice time after time.
    Dreadful isn't it.

    Ought to be used as an excuse for root and branch review of the legal profession.

    Advertisements banned. No win no fee banned etc
    I imagine Micael Gove has a few ideas up his sleeve about how to deal with the lawyers, especially with regard to HR legislation.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 125,154
    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Some moves to the left in other posts but Hilary Benn stays as Shadow Foreign Secretary and must now be the odds-on successor to Corbyn before the next election if he stumbles at the polls

    I can hear surbiton gnashing his teeth from here.
    Plenty more of that to come I expect, goodnight
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,450
    rcs1000 said:

    Oooohhh! There's a new Christopher Brookmyre out next week. His Sacred Art of Stealing, and A Big Boy Did It and Ran Away are two of favourite novels of all time.

    Are you not in the Sony keynote?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,932
    edited 2016 06
    Bloody hell, is this damn reshuffle still going on? What an unholy mess. Can we bring Yougov and their daily polling back? Labour must have dropped 5 points in the last 48 hours of this farce. The treatment of Pat McFadden in particular is disgraceful, no-one could possibly object to his comments unless they were a terrorist sympathiser.

    Thanks for the reply Ms @Cyclefree, good as ever. I think we agree that multiculturism has a lot to answer for, and that we should look to more closely integrate newcomers into our society rather than allow them to import their own society and values into the UK.

    Edit: Thornberry at Defence, really? What the...
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 58,161
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oooohhh! There's a new Christopher Brookmyre out next week. His Sacred Art of Stealing, and A Big Boy Did It and Ran Away are two of favourite novels of all time.

    Are you not in the Sony keynote?
    The keynotes I skip. I've had six meetings today, and I'm beat
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,755
    edited 2016 06
    " "What are the odds that Bernie Sanders wins both Iowa and New Hampshire," host

    "Not impossible," Carville responded.

    "Put some numbers down on it," Halperin said. "What are the odds he wins?"

    "43.28%," Carville predicted. "I think there's a chance. I don't think it's a 50% chance but the state was made for him. He's got a lot of people there. It's been unpredictable." "

    So Sanders is the favorite in both Iowa and New Hampshire - yeah right, pull the other one.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,420
    You know what, we need a market not just on the next Labour leader, but on which MP will step forward and collect the signatures to initiate a leadership contest (it's well discussed but as I understand it the rules say they could do that today, but then an election itself might happen on a rather wobbly time scale). No shortage of potential runners in this market, even if many rumoured challengers don't materialise.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Mortimer said:

    Chortle.

    Thornberry took donations from Law firm that cashed in on false claims against British soldiers

    http://dailym.ai/1RgkD7O

    I hope this story runs again.

    And I hope it involves flags the second time around.
    They were in the news yesterday

    Lawyers face prospect of being struck off over Iraq abuse claims

    Leigh Day, Britain's leading human rights law firm, is facing a disciplinary inquiry over the shredding of a document which could have halted a £31m inquiry into false allegations of murder and torture by British troops

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/12083609/Lawyers-face-prospect-of-being-struck-off-over-Iraq-abuse-claims.html
    It saddens me enormously that we have any law firm that makes a living from the exploitation of our dreadful Human Rights legislation.

    It brings our entire legal system into disrepute that they use this to undermine natural justice time after time.
    Lawyers making a living from the law is their job. If politicians pass bad laws then it's not the fault of lawyers who expose the flaws but the politicians should pass fewer and clearer laws.

    OTOH for shredding documents they should be arrested for perverting the course of justice and imprisoned not just struck off ...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,624
    Fitbit's shares plunged following the announcement of its first colour smartwatch at the CES tech show. The San Francisco-based company's stock fell more than 18%.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-35238645

    Boss - So how do you think it went. I'm pumped. I think we really showed how Fitbit can take on Apple. People seemed to react really well in the audience.

    Right Hand Man - Errhhhhhhhhhh, well, .....
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,641
    Sandpit said:


    Edit: Thornberry at Defence, really? What the...

    "In My Defence"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44eEOAEC5z8

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,450
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Oooohhh! There's a new Christopher Brookmyre out next week. His Sacred Art of Stealing, and A Big Boy Did It and Ran Away are two of favourite novels of all time.

    Are you not in the Sony keynote?
    The keynotes I skip. I've had six meetings today, and I'm beat
    Worth skipping tbh. Go to the party though. They were great when I was at Sony.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Pro_Rata said:

    You know what, we need a market not just on the next Labour leader, but on which MP will step forward and collect the signatures to initiate a leadership contest (it's well discussed but as I understand it the rules say they could do that today, but then an election itself might happen on a rather wobbly time scale). No shortage of potential runners in this market, even if many rumoured challengers don't materialise.

    Michael Dugher must be a good bet.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 97,052

    Comic timing isn’t usually Dave’s strong point, but for once he landed a moderately effective pre-cooked line. “No matter how many Eagles there are,” said Cameron, “the Labour party will always have an albatross at the head of the party.” Angela Eagle seemed to find this funnier than anyone else in the chamber, laughing longer and louder than the joke deserved. Corbyn flushed with anger while Dave looked nonplussed; he’d never received such an enthusiastic reaction to one of his gags. Even from his family. Especially from them.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jan/05/jon-crace-camerons-recollection-of-eu-summit-is-a-christmas-miracle

    What are they on about, Cameron's always been decent with a comic line, if it is also a little cruel. And have they forgotten the brothers gag to ed m, that got a hell of reception.
This discussion has been closed.