If I or my daughter were assaulted by rapists and the police refused to or failed to take any action against the attackers, I would take my own revenge on them. I would be quite capable of killing anyone who harmed my daughter.
If the state fails in its most basic task - as Germany would appear to have done, first, by letting such people in; second, failing to protect its citizens from criminals; and thirdly, failing to bring such criminals to justice - then it should not be surprised if citizens take the law into their own hands.
The Germans should be reminded of the outrage they and the rest of us felt when we learnt of the mass rapes of Bosnian Muslim women by Serbs during the Yugoslav civil wars. They should be equally outraged if the same crimes are perpetrated on them.
The protection of women from what is a most horrible crime is not some optional nice-to-have. Sadly, this seems to be a lesson which needs to be taught every few years.
If (and it's a whoppingly large if) this leads to irresistible public pressure on Merkel to change her policy (and I'm not holding my breath) then perhaps some good may come from it.
But i fear it will take much tougher measures than I think she is willing to politically accept to stop the migration flows in their tracks now.
She has opened Pandora's box.
I would like to hope so. But crimes against women - however awful or wide ranging - rarely have any sort of real or long-lasting political impact, partly because female politicians don't make enough of a fuss, partly because it is seen as a women's issue (as if it were some side issue like VAT on tampons, only of interest to the slightly obsessed) and partly because male politicians don't take it seriously and make it front and centre - as it would be if men and boys were being attacked and anally raped in the centres of our towns.
The paradox is that we give the impression, as a society, that we don't value women and those from societies where men's honour is, at least in part, carried by "pure" women, take their cue from that and their own idea of women, as people who are not actors in their own right, in charge of their own lives, but simply a vehicle for others - as either the "pure" woman, keeper of the family's "honour" or as a slut to be used for sex and nothing else.
It's strange. I'm a feminist, and I know (surprise, surprise) other feminists who are critical of rape and sexual assault irregardless of the ethnic background of the rapist. Yet according to PB 'feminists' in general are only/mainly critical of privileged white men when it comes to rape and sexual assault? The internet is not the place to go when you want a to see how representative a POV is. Looking at the DM comments section on SPOTY and looking at the actual vote is one example of that.
I know Corbyn must be bad if even my mum, who has turned left in the last year or so has turned against him. I'd really love to know how his supporters still think his leadership will bring good things for the Labour party. If there is a time where many people need a strong opposition it's now.
On Merkel, well I'm sure her legacy isn't going to be defined by some people on PB.
If I or my daughter were assaulted by rapists and the police refused to or failed to take any action against the attackers, I would take my own revenge on them. I would be quite capable of killing anyone who harmed my daughter.
(snip)
The protection of women from what is a most horrible crime is not some optional nice-to-have. Sadly, this seems to be a lesson which needs to be taught every few years.
I don'r believe I live through works of fiction, but I'm reminded of Bergman's "The Virgin Spring".
Anyway, as it is for treason, could such a crime, properly tried, be a candidate for a "one strike and you're out" approach?
@kle4 They were so upset Murray won. It was actually hilarious. Some of them genuinely believed the fact that Fury didn't win was down to an evil leftie PC conspiracy.
It's strange. I'm a feminist, and I know (surprise, surprise) other feminists who are critical of rape and sexual assault irregardless of the ethnic background of the rapist. Yet according to PB 'feminists' in general are only/mainly critical of privileged white men when it comes to rape and sexual assault?
Checkout some of the people involved in trying to make reporting what was happening in Rotherham a criminal offense and have subsequently stated that just arresting the criminals would destroy "community harmony".
Yes, alleged leaders of feminism in this country. Or the notable "feminist" who claimed that a crackdown on FGM was un-necessary and racist.
It almost like there was a pattern there or something.
Who are the people who wanted to make reporting what happened in Rotherham in criminal offense? It is a tad ambitious to call them the leaders of feminism, and mention one 'notable' feminist if you don't name names after all.
It's strange. I'm a feminist, and I know (surprise, surprise) other feminists who are critical of rape and sexual assault irregardless of the ethnic background of the rapist. Yet according to PB 'feminists' in general are only/mainly critical of privileged white men when it comes to rape and sexual assault? The internet is not the place to go when you want a to see how representative a POV is. Looking at the DM comments section on SPOTY and looking at the actual vote is one example of that.
I know Corbyn must be bad if even my mum, who has turned left in the last year or so has turned against him. I'd really love to know how his supporters still think his leadership will bring good things for the Labour party. If there is a time where many people need a strong opposition it's now.
On Merkel, well I'm sure her legacy isn't going to be defined by some people on PB.
"So the lack of complete sexual freedom causes immigrants to attack women? Interesting..."
Not at all. I was just answering Cyclefree's post. Our generalizations are too wide of the mark. We don't live in this sixties dream and neither are all Muslim countries the repressed places described on here. Istanbul is one of the least repressed places I've been to and overwhelmingly Muslim. I'm pretty sure you'd find a livelier time there without interference from the law than you would in Dublin
I would like to hope so. But crimes against women - however awful or wide ranging - rarely have any sort of real or long-lasting political impact, partly because female politicians don't make enough of a fuss, partly because it is seen as a women's issue (as if it were some side issue like VAT on tampons, only of interest to the slightly obsessed) and partly because male politicians don't take it seriously and make it front and centre - as it would be if men and boys were being attacked and anally raped in the centres of our towns.
The paradox is that we give the impression, as a society, that we don't value women and those from societies where men's honour is, at least in part, carried by "pure" women, take their cue from that and their own idea of women, as people who are not actors in their own right, in charge of their own lives, but simply a vehicle for others - as either the "pure" woman, keeper of the family's "honour" or as a slut to be used for sex and nothing else.
I think feminists are happy to make those arguments against white men, particularly privileged white men.
But in the culture wars race trumps gender every time.
Yes well isn't that the problem. Feminists these days seem more interested in wearing a stupid T-Shirt and hounding those who don't, or changing their facebook status or posting some twitter inanity than actually tackling the real issues.
I brought it up with a few friends of my partner who consider themselves feminists and do all of that stuff, why do feminists go easy on Muslim crime against women/girls. Honour killings, FGM, rape and child sexual abuse are all rife within the Muslim community and all of those crimes disproportionately or are exclusively perpetrated against women/girls and nothing. Their answer was "we can't win that battle, there is no interest within any major political party to solve any of those issues so we fight the battles we can win". Pathetic. If the suffragettes had thought that way it would have taken 50 more years for women to get the vote.
How prevalent is FGM in the UK?
Read about it, it's quite bad. Some estimates are 10 in 1000 Muslim girls are subjected to it and many more are at risk of being taken overseas and having it carried out on them.
Rubbish. Do have any proof or reliable source ? "Some estimates" is not a good start. In fact, this anti-Muslim thing about FGM is quite deliberate. The largest Muslim populated countries like Indonesia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, India, Iran , Turkey have zero cases of FGM.
FGM is primarily, if not wholly, a Horn of Africa cultural and some in the rural parts of Sudan and Upper Egypt, possibly.
If I or my daughter were assaulted by rapists and the police refused to or failed to take any action against the attackers, I would take my own revenge on them. I would be quite capable of killing anyone who harmed my daughter.
If the state fails in its most basic task - as Germany would appear to have done, first, by letting such people in; second, failing to protect its citizens from criminals; and thirdly, failing to bring such criminals to justice - then it should not be surprised if citizens take the law into their own hands.
The Germans should be reminded of the outrage they and the rest of us felt when we learnt of the mass rapes of Bosnian Muslim women by Serbs during the Yugoslav civil wars. They should be equally outraged if the same crimes are perpetrated on them.
The protection of women from what is a most horrible crime is not some optional nice-to-have. Sadly, this seems to be a lesson which needs to be taught every few years.
It should be a lesson we need only learn once. I wouldn't blame you. If my partner were assaulted in this manner and the police turned a blind eye I would be looking to take the law into my own hands. If the government and the police are not there to protect people from crime of the worst type then why even bother having them.
Cultural sensitivity is a complete bullshit phrase that needs to be stamped on and thrown out of our vocabulary. I'm not going to be sensitive towards those who have an inferior culture to our own.
I agree wholeheartedly. Some cultures are better than others. I think Western culture is better on the whole than Middle Eastern culture. Those living in the Middle East may disagree. That is their right. But if they come to live here they live according to our rules. And if they don't want to, they can piss off.
What they need to - and don't - understand is that the freedoms which allow women to do what they want, including getting pissed and fall into the gutter after having given blow jobs to the local light infantry (if that is what they want to do) are the same freedoms which have resulted in us having a stable, free and economically prosperous society which is so attractive to the migrants. You can't have one without the other.
The freedom to do what you want is indivisible from the freedom to think what you want, to say what you want, to ask "why" and "why not", to invent, to create, to change and to refuse to accept that you have discovered all possible human knowledge and that there is nothing more to learn and that therefore nothing must change.
What they need to - and don't - understand is that the freedoms which allow women to do what they want, including getting pissed and fall into the gutter after having given blow jobs to the local light infantry (if that is what they want to do) are the same freedoms which have resulted in us having a stable, free and economically prosperous society which is so attractive to the migrants. You can't have one without the other.
The freedom to do what you want is indivisible from the freedom to think what you want, to say what you want, to ask "why" and "why not", to invent, to create, to change and to refuse to accept that you have discovered all possible human knowledge and that there is nothing more to learn and that therefore nothing must change.
You're living in Narnia. That might be how you'd like it to be but not how it is. I bought my flat in Soho in 1985 and every night the police van would come down and pick up as many girls off the street as they could fit in their van. It carried on until about 2000 when the area became gay and the police attitude changed.
Germany is as you describe. The UK isn't. Try giving someone a blow job in a public place in the UK (if that's what you want to do) and you'll find yourself in jail. Even cycling naked without the blow job will see you incarcerated! It's got better but we're a long way from the place you're describing
No I'm not. I live here. I know whereof I speak. (And BTW I didn't say the blow jobs had to be in public. That's your assumption.)
We take the view that women are in charge of their own lives, are sexual beings and can make their own sexual choices, that they can "do" as well as "be done to". We take the view that they are not mere appendages to others, that they are not there to keep and transmit the family's "honour" while the men behave however they like. We are revolted at the idea that rape could be used as a punishment because some man's honour has been impugned, at the idea that "honour" is about appearances rather than the reality.
Freedom for women is essential to a free society. It is one reason why one of the first things that those societies that turn their back on Western liberal freedoms do is to remove and/or restrict women's freedom and their right to education and their rights to do as they like with their own bodies, with their lives. They understand how dangerous such freedoms are to those who would exercise control and power. They are scared and, like the scared the world over, they try and lash out, using verbal and actual violence.
It's strange. I'm a feminist, and I know (surprise, surprise) other feminists who are critical of rape and sexual assault irregardless of the ethnic background of the rapist. Yet according to PB 'feminists' in general are only/mainly critical of privileged white men when it comes to rape and sexual assault? The internet is not the place to go when you want a to see how representative a POV is. Looking at the DM comments section on SPOTY and looking at the actual vote is one example of that.
I know Corbyn must be bad if even my mum, who has turned left in the last year or so has turned against him. I'd really love to know how his supporters still think his leadership will bring good things for the Labour party. If there is a time where many people need a strong opposition it's now.
On Merkel, well I'm sure her legacy isn't going to be defined by some people on PB.
I'm a proper feminist too. Not a pretend one. The criticism is that for too long in our society we have turned a blind eye to sexual crimes perpetrated on Asian women and girls because of some misplaced fear or desire not to criticise their culture - as if culture trumped the fact of a crime being committed. There are a number of Asian feminist organizations who have made this point over the years and who have found it very difficult to get publicity because (a) they were talking about crimes against women; and (b) crimes against Asian women. A double whammy of indifference.
Rape is rape is rape, regardless of the ethnic/religious background of the rapist or the victim. All are or should be equal under the law. But that has not always been the de facto position for all women or all rapists. And too many of those who have purported to speak for the women's cause have not been clear about saying what I have just said. The fact that, for instance, the German authorities are providing guides to women about what they have to do to avoid crimes is pathetic victim-blaming. It does not place the blame squarely where it rests. On the perpetrators of crimes.
And that ambiguity is fatal to any serious attempt to deal with such crimes, to any serious attempt to ensure that a woman can feel safe and secure in public and in private.
I would like to hope so. But crimes against women - however awful or wide ranging - rarely have any sort of real or long-lasting political impact, partly because female politicians don't make enough of a fuss, partly because it is seen as a women's issue (as if it were some side issue like VAT on tampons, only of interest to the slightly obsessed) and partly because male politicians don't take it seriously and make it front and centre - as it would be if men and boys were being attacked and anally raped in the centres of our towns.
The paradox is that we give the impression, as a society, that we don't value women and those from societies where men's honour is, at least in part, carried by "pure" women, take their cue from that and their own idea of women, as people who are not actors in their own right, in charge of their own lives, but simply a vehicle for others - as either the "pure" woman, keeper of the family's "honour" or as a slut to be used for sex and nothing else.
I think feminists are happy to make those arguments against white men, particularly privileged white men.
But in the culture wars race trumps gender every time.
Yes well isn't that the problem. Feminists these days seem more interested in wearing a stupid T-Shirt and hounding those who don't, or changing their facebook status or posting some twitter inanity than actually tackling the real issues.
I brought it up with a few friends of my partner who consider themselves feminists and do all of that stuff, why do feminists go easy on Muslim crime against women/girls. Honour killings, FGM, rape and child sexual abuse are all rife within the Muslim community and all of those crimes disproportionately or are exclusively perpetrated against women/girls and nothing. Their answer was "we can't win that battle, there is no interest within any major political party to solve any of those issues so we fight the battles we can win". Pathetic. If the suffragettes had thought that way it would have taken 50 more years for women to get the vote.
I think it's quite simple: it's hard for many to fathom (using their own terms) that the "oppressed" can themselves also be oppressors. To admit as much would be to introduce too much thinking and too many shades of grey into their (far easier) black & white world.
Most people can't be arsed. Those that can (as welll as many of those who can't) don't act because of their desire to prioritise demonstration of their anti-prejudice coupled with a very real fear of biteback.
Rubbish. Do have any proof or reliable source ? "Some estimates" is not a good start. In fact, this anti-Muslim thing about FGM is quite deliberate. The largest Muslim populated countries like Indonesia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, India, Iran , Turkey have zero cases of FGM.
FGM is primarily, if not wholly, a Horn of Africa cultural and some in the rural parts of Sudan and Upper Egypt, possibly.
Labour are so desperate for votes. It's sad how much of a blind eye you are willing to turn for those votes.
I would add that we need to take the same attitude towards countries that restrict the rights of women, as we did to countries that restricted the rights of people because of their skin colour.
"So the lack of complete sexual freedom causes immigrants to attack women? Interesting..."
Not at all. I was just answering Cyclefree's post. Our generalizations are too wide of the mark. We don't live in this sixties dream and neither are all Muslim countries the repressed places described on here. Istanbul is one of the least repressed places I've been to and overwhelmingly Muslim. I'm pretty sure you'd find a livelier time there without interference from the law than you would in Dublin
Rubbish. Do have any proof or reliable source ? "Some estimates" is not a good start. In fact, this anti-Muslim thing about FGM is quite deliberate. The largest Muslim populated countries like Indonesia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, India, Iran , Turkey have zero cases of FGM.
FGM is primarily, if not wholly, a Horn of Africa cultural and some in the rural parts of Sudan and Upper Egypt, possibly.
Labour are so desperate for votes. It's sad how much of a blind eye you are willing to turn for those votes.
Credible evidence or sources please ? Not some shit about "some estimates" . Give us one such credible estimate. For someone so opiniated like you, you are remarkably reticent about that.
It's strange. I'm a feminist, and I know (surprise, surprise) other feminists who are critical of rape and sexual assault irregardless of the ethnic background of the rapist. Yet according to PB 'feminists' in general are only/mainly critical of privileged white men when it comes to rape and sexual assault? The internet is not the place to go when you want a to see how representative a POV is. Looking at the DM comments section on SPOTY and looking at the actual vote is one example of that.
I know Corbyn must be bad if even my mum, who has turned left in the last year or so has turned against him. I'd really love to know how his supporters still think his leadership will bring good things for the Labour party. If there is a time where many people need a strong opposition it's now.
On Merkel, well I'm sure her legacy isn't going to be defined by some people on PB.
"So the lack of complete sexual freedom causes immigrants to attack women? Interesting..."
Not at all. I was just answering Cyclefree's post. Our generalizations are too wide of the mark. We don't live in this sixties dream and neither are all Muslim countries the repressed places described on here. Istanbul is one of the least repressed places I've been to and overwhelmingly Muslim. I'm pretty sure you'd find a livelier time there without interference from the law than you would in Dublin
Have you been to Dublin lately?!
You can't walk alone in Dubai or take the lift in a hotel. Makes Bangkok look conservative.
Sky News showing report that ISIS have discovered a way to re-activate obsolete SAM missiles...
Former Chief of RAF says: "we're now in a different ballpark. There are hundreds of thousands of these things lying around, on scrapheaps..."
Seems a bit unlikely. Getting rockets to work, is well, rocket science. They need exceptional maintenance to keep them in top condition. If they arent in top condition they'll kill more of your own side than the enemy.
Are we to believe that ISIS has the infrastructure and capacity to reactivate and retrofit these on a large scale? The failure rate if experts were doing it would be 75% at best.
thanks, im sceptical but still frightened.... What happens when they're able to develop drones...
You mean, like these: youtube.com/watch?v=imtqooJj0I4
As an aside: I am at CES, and when the Disco is launched, I am SOOOOOO getting one.
Hell yeah!! How much are they? I have one of their original ar.drone quadcopters which were fantastic 5 years ago, but the tech has moved on a lot since then.
I am a Phantom pilot, and have been flying 2 years, really enjoy the hobby, I don't think I will change to fixed wing any time soon. Enjoy the CES.
It's strange. I'm a feminist, and I know (surprise, surprise) other feminists who are critical of rape and sexual assault irregardless of the ethnic background of the rapist. Yet according to PB 'feminists' in general are only/mainly critical of privileged white men when it comes to rape and sexual assault? The internet is not the place to go when you want a to see how representative a POV is. Looking at the DM comments section on SPOTY and looking at the actual vote is one example of that.
I know Corbyn must be bad if even my mum, who has turned left in the last year or so has turned against him. I'd really love to know how his supporters still think his leadership will bring good things for the Labour party. If there is a time where many people need a strong opposition it's now.
On Merkel, well I'm sure her legacy isn't going to be defined by some people on PB.
Going by the logic that asks Why didn't Corbyn or Sadiq Khan condemn every single Muslim ever who committed a crime Why didn't PB comments condemn the endemic problem of violence against women when it wasn't being committed by Muslims? Before we even start on the violence perpetrated by the very sex industry which probably enjoys support for full legalisation among the men around here
I would add that we need to take the same attitude towards countries that restrict the rights of women, as we did to countries that restricted the rights of people because of their skin colour.
We have a Leader of the Opposition who appears for and was, apparently, paid by the TV propaganda arm of a regime that uses rape as a punishment in prison, orders women what they can wear in public and who, when they first came into power, lowered the age of consent for girls to 9.
And who some think is being principled when he criticises our government for being friendly with an equally revolting regime with equally revolting (indeed, probably more so) laws restricting women and how they live.
It's strange. I'm a feminist, and I know (surprise, surprise) other feminists who are critical of rape and sexual assault irregardless of the ethnic background of the rapist. Yet according to PB 'feminists' in general are only/mainly critical of privileged white men when it comes to rape and sexual assault? The internet is not the place to go when you want a to see how representative a POV is. Looking at the DM comments section on SPOTY and looking at the actual vote is one example of that.
I know Corbyn must be bad if even my mum, who has turned left in the last year or so has turned against him. I'd really love to know how his supporters still think his leadership will bring good things for the Labour party. If there is a time where many people need a strong opposition it's now.
On Merkel, well I'm sure her legacy isn't going to be defined by some people on PB.
I'm a proper feminist too. Not a pretend one. The criticism is that for too long in our society we have turned a blind eye to sexual crimes perpetrated on Asian women and girls because of some misplaced fear or desire not to criticise their culture - as if culture trumped the fact of a crime being committed. There are a number of Asian feminist organizations who have made this point over the years and who have found it very difficult to get publicity because (a) they were talking about crimes against women; and (b) crimes against Asian women. A double whammy of indifference.
Rape is rape is rape, regardless of the ethnic/religious background of the rapist or the victim. All are or should be equal under the law. But that has not always been the de facto position for all women or all rapists. And too many of those who have purported to speak for the women's cause have not been clear about saying what I have just said. The fact that, for instance, the German authorities are providing guides to women about what they have to do to avoid crimes is pathetic victim-blaming. It does not place the blame squarely where it rests. On the perpetrators of crimes.
And that ambiguity is fatal to any serious attempt to deal with such crimes, to any serious attempt to ensure that a woman can feel safe and secure in public and in private.
I completely agree with you. What annoys me about those who believe in telling women how to 'avoid rape', is that in a vast majority of rapes, the victim will know who raped her personally. Rape is far more likely to occur in a domestic setting than in a dark some dark alley. So not only is it victim blaming nonsense, it is ineffective, victim blaming nonsense.
It's strange. I'm a feminist, and I know (surprise, surprise) other feminists who are critical of rape and sexual assault irregardless of the ethnic background of the rapist. Yet according to PB 'feminists' in general are only/mainly critical of privileged white men when it comes to rape and sexual assault? The internet is not the place to go when you want a to see how representative a POV is. Looking at the DM comments section on SPOTY and looking at the actual vote is one example of that.
I know Corbyn must be bad if even my mum, who has turned left in the last year or so has turned against him. I'd really love to know how his supporters still think his leadership will bring good things for the Labour party. If there is a time where many people need a strong opposition it's now.
On Merkel, well I'm sure her legacy isn't going to be defined by some people on PB.
Happy New Year!
There are some (to me) very odd views about feminism on this site. It's strange to see people use "feminist" as a negative term or even an insult.
I agree that it's waaaay too early to be writing Merkel's obituary. AfD, who would be the obvious beneficiaries of backlash against her immigration policy, are still polling in single figures.
It's strange. I'm a feminist, and I know (surprise, surprise) other feminists who are critical of rape and sexual assault irregardless of the ethnic background of the rapist. Yet according to PB 'feminists' in general are only/mainly critical of privileged white men when it comes to rape and sexual assault? The internet is not the place to go when you want a to see how representative a POV is. Looking at the DM comments section on SPOTY and looking at the actual vote is one example of that.
I know Corbyn must be bad if even my mum, who has turned left in the last year or so has turned against him. I'd really love to know how his supporters still think his leadership will bring good things for the Labour party. If there is a time where many people need a strong opposition it's now.
On Merkel, well I'm sure her legacy isn't going to be defined by some people on PB.
I'm a proper feminist too. Not a pretend one. The criticism is that for too long in our society we have turned a blind eye to sexual crimes perpetrated on Asian women and girls because of some misplaced fear or desire not to criticise their culture - as if culture trumped the fact of a crime being committed. There are a number of Asian feminist organizations who have made this point over the years and who have found it very difficult to get publicity because (a) they were talking about crimes against women; and (b) crimes against Asian women. A double whammy of indifference.
Rape is rape is rape, regardless of the ethnic/religious background of the rapist or the victim. All are or should be equal under the law. But that has not always been the de facto position for all women or all rapists. And too many of those who have purported to speak for the women's cause have not been clear about saying what I have just said. The fact that, for instance, the German authorities are providing guides to women about what they have to do to avoid crimes is pathetic victim-blaming. It does not place the blame squarely where it rests. On the perpetrators of crimes.
And that ambiguity is fatal to any serious attempt to deal with such crimes, to any serious attempt to ensure that a woman can feel safe and secure in public and in private.
It's strange. I'm a feminist, and I know (surprise, surprise) other feminists who are critical of rape and sexual assault irregardless of the ethnic background of the rapist. Yet according to PB 'feminists' in general are only/mainly critical of privileged white men when it comes to rape and sexual assault? The internet is not the place to go when you want a to see how representative a POV is. Looking at the DM comments section on SPOTY and looking at the actual vote is one example of that.
I know Corbyn must be bad if even my mum, who has turned left in the last year or so has turned against him. I'd really love to know how his supporters still think his leadership will bring good things for the Labour party. If there is a time where many people need a strong opposition it's now.
On Merkel, well I'm sure her legacy isn't going to be defined by some people on PB.
I'm a proper feminist too. Not a pretend one. The criticism is that for too long in our society we have turned a blind eye to sexual crimes perpetrated on Asian women and girls because of some misplaced fear or desire not to criticise their culture - as if culture trumped the fact of a crime being committed. There are a number of Asian feminist organizations who have made this point over the years and who have found it very difficult to get publicity because (a) they were talking about crimes against women; and (b) crimes against Asian women. A double whammy of indifference.
Rape is rape is rape, regardless of the ethnic/religious background of the rapist or the victim. All are or should be equal under the law. But that has not always been the de facto position for all women or all rapists. And too many of those who have purported to speak for the women's cause have not been clear about saying what I have just said. The fact that, for instance, the German authorities are providing guides to women about what they have to do to avoid crimes is pathetic victim-blaming. It does not place the blame squarely where it rests. On the perpetrators of crimes.
And that ambiguity is fatal to any serious attempt to deal with such crimes, to any serious attempt to ensure that a woman can feel safe and secure in public and in private.
I completely agree with you. What annoys me about those who believe in telling women how to 'avoid rape', is that in a vast majority of rapes, the victim will know who raped her personally. Rape is far more likely to occur in a domestic setting than in a dark some dark alley. So not only is it victim blaming nonsense, it is ineffective, victim blaming nonsense.
I know Corbyn must be bad if even my mum, who has turned left in the last year or so has turned against him. I'd really love to know how his supporters still think his leadership will bring good things for the Labour party. If there is a time where many people need a strong opposition it's now.
On Merkel, well I'm sure her legacy isn't going to be defined by some people on PB.
I'm a proper feminist too. Not a pretend one. The criticism is that for too long in our society we have turned a blind eye to sexual crimes perpetrated on Asian women and girls because of some misplaced fear or desire not to criticise their culture - as if culture trumped the fact of a crime being committed. There are a number of Asian feminist organizations who have made this point over the years and who have found it very difficult to get publicity because (a) they were talking about crimes against women; and (b) crimes against Asian women. A double whammy of indifference.
Rape is rape is rape, regardless of the ethnic/religious background of the rapist or the victim. All are or should be equal under the law. But that has not always been the de facto position for all women or all rapists. And too many of those who have purported to speak for the women's cause have not been clear about saying what I have just said. The fact that, for instance, the German authorities are providing guides to women about what they have to do to avoid crimes is pathetic victim-blaming. It does not place the blame squarely where it rests. On the perpetrators of crimes.
And that ambiguity is fatal to any serious attempt to deal with such crimes, to any serious attempt to ensure that a woman can feel safe and secure in public and in private.
You are on fire Cyclefree But as I am sure you appreciate carrying sharp knives is a very serious criminal offence and not justified by apprehension of rape. We live in an incredibly civilised and safe society where such self defence is rarely necessary. Most people carrying knives find themselves the victim of the same.
Our priority is to ensure that our society remains that safe. You are absolutely right to argue that means our laws require enforcement without fear or favour. It is shameful the abuse of women is given such a low priority in our society. The fact that it is a higher priority than pretty much any society in history does not excuse the failure.
Rubbish. Do have any proof or reliable source ? "Some estimates" is not a good start. In fact, this anti-Muslim thing about FGM is quite deliberate. The largest Muslim populated countries like Indonesia, Bangladesh, Pakistan, India, Iran , Turkey have zero cases of FGM.
FGM is primarily, if not wholly, a Horn of Africa cultural and some in the rural parts of Sudan and Upper Egypt, possibly.
Labour are so desperate for votes. It's sad how much of a blind eye you are willing to turn for those votes.
Credible evidence or sources please ? Not some shit about "some estimates" . Give us one such credible estimate. For someone so opiniated like you, you are remarkably reticent about that.
I would add that we need to take the same attitude towards countries that restrict the rights of women, as we did to countries that restricted the rights of people because of their skin colour.
We have a Leader of the Opposition who appears for and was, apparently, paid by the TV propaganda arm of a regime that uses rape as a punishment in prison, orders women what they can wear in public and who, when they first came into power, lowered the age of consent for girls to 9.
And who some think is being principled when he criticises our government for being friendly with an equally revolting regime with equally revolting (indeed, probably more so) laws restricting women and how they live.
Utter non sequitur PB comments are happy to whip up fear of Muslims as rapists, but also for their hero Cameron to prance around hand in glove with the Sauds
Sky News showing report that ISIS have discovered a way to re-activate obsolete SAM missiles...
Former Chief of RAF says: "we're now in a different ballpark. There are hundreds of thousands of these things lying around, on scrapheaps..."
Seems a bit unlikely. Getting rockets to work, is well, rocket science. They need exceptional maintenance to keep them in top condition. If they arent in top condition they'll kill more of your own side than the enemy.
Are we to believe that ISIS has the infrastructure and capacity to reactivate and retrofit these on a large scale? The failure rate if experts were doing it would be 75% at best.
Oh. Batteries. GSCE level electronics to create a replacement power supply that creates the correct voltage and ampage to replace an expired MANPAD battery. Particularly when the voltage and ampage are written on the original battery....
Bit like being surprised that someone can get a cement mixer, fertilizer and diesel fuel together.
The Palestinian terrorists have got rather adept at making unguided rockets, albeit with Iran's help:
Guidance is the biggest problem. The article makes it sound as if they've taken a 'dumb' rocket as fitted to planes / helicopters and added a guidance package: IR homing 'radar' to make an improvised SAM. That sounds remarkably dodgy.
The other part about the replacement batteries would not surprise me, although it might be more involved than just recreating the voltage and amperage.
It sounded more as if they have slapped an Atoll (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-13_(missile)) on a rail on the ground point up, fiddled around with the right electrical connections to get it to work....
At least they are heading in the right direction...
A cousin of mine (a senior bod at Barclays) lit some rockets for his daughter's birthday recently. Didn't realise that the stick was supposed to rest on the ground, not be stuck in it.
Nearly took the roof off
Setting them off under a roof might have been his first mistake..
Even he's not that daft...
Bottom of the garden, but instead of flying straight up they spun round in circles and then flew off, randomnly, just over the roofline
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Merkel will go down in history as one of the worst Western leaders of the early 21st Century.
Germany has lower unemployment and debt than we do and she is probably the most powerful woman in the world, she is not even in the pool of worst leaders
After running her country flawlessly for a decade she made a monumental error. History is good at remembering mistakes.
Historically pre-Syria Merkel actually took less immigrants than Cameron, Brown and Blair
All of that means nothing when the policy she has pursued is letting in 1.5m people per year from a third world country.
Michael Dugher was such a great Labour guy that until day before yesterday I had not heard of him.
But now we have heard of him and realized that Labour did have an impressive articulate MP after all isn't it sad that we wont see him anymore because he's just been fired?
I would add that we need to take the same attitude towards countries that restrict the rights of women, as we did to countries that restricted the rights of people because of their skin colour.
We have a Leader of the Opposition who appears for and was, apparently, paid by the TV propaganda arm of a regime that uses rape as a punishment in prison, orders women what they can wear in public and who, when they first came into power, lowered the age of consent for girls to 9.
And who some think is being principled when he criticises our government for being friendly with an equally revolting regime with equally revolting (indeed, probably more so) laws restricting women and how they live.
Utter non sequitur PB comments are happy to whip up fear of Muslims as rapists, but also for their hero Cameron to prance around hand in glove with the Sauds
Everyone is generally happy to ignore prancing around with the Saudis - it's just a shameful piece of international realpolitik people prefer not to think about. If its not the saudis palled up to, it's some other monsters, that's the world.
I'm a proper feminist too. Not a pretend one. The criticism is that for too long in our society we have turned a blind eye to sexual crimes perpetrated on Asian women and girls because of some misplaced fear or desire not to criticise their culture - as if culture trumped the fact of a crime being committed. There are a number of Asian feminist organizations who have made this point over the years and who have found it very difficult to get publicity because (a) they were talking about crimes against women; and (b) crimes against Asian women. A double whammy of indifference.
Rape is rape is rape, regardless of the ethnic/religious background of the rapist or the victim. All are or should be equal under the law. But that has not always been the de facto position for all women or all rapists. And too many of those who have purported to speak for the women's cause have not been clear about saying what I have just said. The fact that, for instance, the German authorities are providing guides to women about what they have to do to avoid crimes is pathetic victim-blaming. It does not place the blame squarely where it rests. On the perpetrators of crimes.
And that ambiguity is fatal to any serious attempt to deal with such crimes, to any serious attempt to ensure that a woman can feel safe and secure in public and in private.
I would add that we need to take the same attitude towards countries that restrict the rights of women, as we did to countries that restricted the rights of people because of their skin colour.
We have a Leader of the Opposition who appears for and was, apparently, paid by the TV propaganda arm of a regime that uses rape as a punishment in prison, orders women what they can wear in public and who, when they first came into power, lowered the age of consent for girls to 9.
And who some think is being principled when he criticises our government for being friendly with an equally revolting regime with equally revolting (indeed, probably more so) laws restricting women and how they live.
Utter non sequitur PB comments are happy to whip up fear of Muslims as rapists, but also for their hero Cameron to prance around hand in glove with the Sauds
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Merkel will go down in history as one of the worst Western leaders of the early 21st Century.
Germany has lower unemployment and debt than we do and she is probably the most powerful woman in the world, she is not even in the pool of worst leaders
After running her country flawlessly for a decade she made a monumental error. History is good at remembering mistakes.
Historically pre-Syria Merkel actually took less immigrants than Cameron, Brown and Blair
All of that means nothing when the policy she has pursued is letting in 1.5m people per year from a third world country.
And creating taxpayers and future CDU voters !
If the UK experience is anything to go by, SPD surely given how desperate the left seems to be to try and curry favour with Muslims.
I would add that we need to take the same attitude towards countries that restrict the rights of women, as we did to countries that restricted the rights of people because of their skin colour.
I would add that we need to take the same attitude towards countries that restrict the rights of women, as we did to countries that restricted the rights of people because of their skin colour.
We have a Leader of the Opposition who appears for and was, apparently, paid by the TV propaganda arm of a regime that uses rape as a punishment in prison, orders women what they can wear in public and who, when they first came into power, lowered the age of consent for girls to 9.
And who some think is being principled when he criticises our government for being friendly with an equally revolting regime with equally revolting (indeed, probably more so) laws restricting women and how they live.
Utter non sequitur PB comments are happy to whip up fear of Muslims as rapists, but also for their hero Cameron to prance around hand in glove with the Sauds
Rubbish, I'm absolutely not. Ask surby, I have posted many times that we should tell them to stick their oil and their billions where the sun doesn't shine. Apparently the defence industry would struggle.
Sky News showing report that ISIS have discovered a way to re-activate obsolete SAM missiles...
Former Chief of RAF says: "we're now in a different ballpark. There are hundreds of thousands of these things lying around, on scrapheaps..."
Seems a bit unlikely. Getting rockets to work, is well, rocket science. They need exceptional maintenance to keep them in top condition. If they arent in top condition they'll kill more of your own side than the enemy.
Are we to believe that ISIS has the infrastructure and capacity to reactivate and retrofit these on a large scale? The failure rate if experts were doing it would be 75% at best.
thanks, im sceptical but still frightened.... What happens when they're able to develop drones...
You mean, like these: youtube.com/watch?v=imtqooJj0I4
As an aside: I am at CES, and when the Disco is launched, I am SOOOOOO getting one.
Hell yeah!! How much are they? I have one of their original ar.drone quadcopters which were fantastic 5 years ago, but the tech has moved on a lot since then.
I am a Phantom pilot, and have been flying 2 years, really enjoy the hobby, I don't think I will change to fixed wing any time soon. Enjoy the CES.
I have a Phantom II VIsion +. Excellent for aerial photography on archaeology sites as it is the only one with a gimbal mounting that does true vertical shots. I am getting ready to get my licence in a few months so I can add it to the services my company provides.
It's strange. I'm a feminist, and I know (surprise, surprise) other feminists who are critical of rape and sexual assault irregardless of the ethnic background of the rapist. Yet according to PB 'feminists' in general are only/mainly critical of privileged white men when it comes to rape and sexual assault? The internet is not the place to go when you want a to see how representative a POV is. Looking at the DM comments section on SPOTY and looking at the actual vote is one example of that.
I know Corbyn must be bad if even my mum, who has turned left in the last year or so has turned against him. I'd really love to know how his supporters still think his leadership will bring good things for the Labour party. If there is a time where many people need a strong opposition it's now.
On Merkel, well I'm sure her legacy isn't going to be defined by some people on PB.
Happy New Year!
There are some (to me) very odd views about feminism on this site. It's strange to see people use "feminist" as a negative term or even an insult.
I agree that it's waaaay too early to be writing Merkel's obituary. AfD, who would be the obvious beneficiaries of backlash against her immigration policy, are still polling in single figures.
The problem is those who are playing victim trumps, and the "ethnic card" is top trumps. Such fools will even tell you that equality before the law is racist and bigoted.
I know Corbyn must be bad if even my mum, who has turned left in the last year or so has turned against him. I'd really love to know how his supporters still think his leadership will bring good things for the Labour party. If there is a time where many people need a strong opposition it's now.
I'm a proper feminist too. Not a pretend one. The criticism is that for too long in our society we have turned a blind eye to sexual crimes perpetrated on Asian women and girls because of some misplaced fear or desire not to criticise their culture - as if culture trumped the fact of a crime being committed. There are a number of Asian feminist organizations who have made this point over the years and who have found it very difficult to get publicity because (a) they were talking about crimes against women; and (b) crimes against Asian women. A double whammy of indifference.
Rape is rape is rape, regardless of the ethnic/religious background of the rapist or the victim. All are or should be equal under the law. But that has not always been the de facto position for all women or all rapists. And too many of those who have purported to speak for the women's cause have not been clear about saying what I have just said. The fact that, for instance, the German authorities are providing guides to women about what they have to do to avoid crimes is pathetic victim-blaming. It does not place the blame squarely where it rests. On the perpetrators of crimes.
And that ambiguity is fatal to any serious attempt to deal with such crimes, to any serious attempt to ensure that a woman can feel safe and secure in public and in private.
You are on fire Cyclefree But as I am sure you appreciate carrying sharp knives is a very serious criminal offence and not justified by apprehension of rape. We live in an incredibly civilised and safe society where such self defence is rarely necessary. Most people carrying knives find themselves the victim of the same.
Our priority is to ensure that our society remains that safe. You are absolutely right to argue that means our laws require enforcement without fear or favour. It is shameful the abuse of women is given such a low priority in our society. The fact that it is a higher priority than pretty much any society in history does not excuse the failure.
I do know about knives, rest assured. I always have a Swiss army knife in my bag, though mainly for useful stuff rather than attacking random men. But I do follow my father's advice about having a pin or a brooch on my person so that should some sad w*nker decide to get too close he will find himself feeling that sharp pin on his person. I will take my chances with my peers - and have never had to, so far.
I would add that we need to take the same attitude towards countries that restrict the rights of women, as we did to countries that restricted the rights of people because of their skin colour.
We have a Leader of the Opposition who appears for and was, apparently, paid by the TV propaganda arm of a regime that uses rape as a punishment in prison, orders women what they can wear in public and who, when they first came into power, lowered the age of consent for girls to 9.
And who some think is being principled when he criticises our government for being friendly with an equally revolting regime with equally revolting (indeed, probably more so) laws restricting women and how they live.
Utter non sequitur PB comments are happy to whip up fear of Muslims as rapists, but also for their hero Cameron to prance around hand in glove with the Sauds
I have been consistently critical of Saudi Arabia and of our government's toadying to it.
It's strange. I'm a feminist, and I know (surprise, surprise) other feminists who are critical of rape and sexual assault irregardless of the ethnic background of the rapist. Yet according to PB 'feminists' in general are only/mainly critical of privileged white men when it comes to rape and sexual assault? The internet is not the place to go when you want a to see how representative a POV is. Looking at the DM comments section on SPOTY and looking at the actual vote is one example of that.
I know Corbyn must be bad if even my mum, who has turned left in the last year or so has turned against him. I'd really love to know how his supporters still think his leadership will bring good things for the Labour party. If there is a time where many people need a strong opposition it's now.
On Merkel, well I'm sure her legacy isn't going to be defined by some people on PB.
Happy New Year!
There are some (to me) very odd views about feminism on this site. It's strange to see people use "feminist" as a negative term or even an insult.
I agree that it's waaaay too early to be writing Merkel's obituary. AfD, who would be the obvious beneficiaries of backlash against her immigration policy, are still polling in single figures.
I think people (especially right-wing people) tend to feel that feminists should be only concerned about certain issues, and don't get that you can be concerned about rape, sexual assault, FGM and some of the 'less serious' issues regarding gender. I also feel there is an image of feminists as old, sex-negative, porn hating 'unattractive' women who want to take away sex and porn from men, and are just jealous of pretty women. I can say that I don't away to take away anyone's porn or sex, although I can't say I've never been critical of porn in my life.
Glad there's one person on here who agree with me on Merkel
I would add that we need to take the same attitude towards countries that restrict the rights of women, as we did to countries that restricted the rights of people because of their skin colour.
We have a Leader of the Opposition who appears for and was, apparently, paid by the TV propaganda arm of a regime that uses rape as a punishment in prison, orders women what they can wear in public and who, when they first came into power, lowered the age of consent for girls to 9.
And who some think is being principled when he criticises our government for being friendly with an equally revolting regime with equally revolting (indeed, probably more so) laws restricting women and how they live.
Utter non sequitur PB comments are happy to whip up fear of Muslims as rapists, but also for their hero Cameron to prance around hand in glove with the Sauds
Everyone is generally happy to ignore prancing around with the Saudis - it's just a shameful piece of international realpolitik people prefer not to think about. If its not the saudis palled up to, it's some other monsters, that's the world.
Well I am not and neither are quite a few other posters on here.
The only reasoned argument I have heard from anyone on why we should maintain some sort of relationship with them is the exchange of intelligence which according to Rifkind has helped us prevent a series of attacks. But even there I am dubious about its value and in the end I see Saudi Arabia as a cause of terrorism not a solution.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Merkel will go down in history as one of the worst Western leaders of the early 21st Century.
Germany has lower unemployment and debt than we do and she is probably the most powerful woman in the world, she is not even in the pool of worst leaders
At the moment Hilary is probably the most powerful woman in the world, she is the presumptive POTUS.
Merkel will be remembered as the woman who opened the door to extremists and terrorists. Her reputation has been irreparably damaged by the migrant crisis and her reaction to it.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Merkel will go down in history as one of the worst Western leaders of the early 21st Century.
Germany has lower unemployment and debt than we do and she is probably the most powerful woman in the world, she is not even in the pool of worst leaders
At the moment Hilary is probably the most powerful woman in the world, she is the presumptive POTUS.
Merkel will be remembered as the woman who opened the door to extremists and terrorists. Her reputation has been irreparably damaged by the migrant crisis and her reaction to it.
"So the lack of complete sexual freedom causes immigrants to attack women? Interesting..."
Not at all. I was just answering Cyclefree's post. Our generalizations are too wide of the mark. We don't live in this sixties dream and neither are all Muslim countries the repressed places described on here. Istanbul is one of the least repressed places I've been to and overwhelmingly Muslim. I'm pretty sure you'd find a livelier time there without interference from the law than you would in Dublin
Have you been to Dublin lately?!
You can't walk alone in Dubai or take the lift in a hotel. Makes Bangkok look conservative.
Dublin? Makes you wonder how many moons there are in Rogers sky.
In a western country (in general) you have to work at it to get arrested. Bit of Istanbul and a few other places aside, in general the Muslim countries vary from 1850s repression of women to 1350s (from a UK perspective).
I would add that we need to take the same attitude towards countries that restrict the rights of women, as we did to countries that restricted the rights of people because of their skin colour.
We have a Leader of the Opposition who appears for and was, apparently, paid by the TV propaganda arm of a regime that uses rape as a punishment in prison, orders women what they can wear in public and who, when they first came into power, lowered the age of consent for girls to 9.
And who some think is being principled when he criticises our government for being friendly with an equally revolting regime with equally revolting (indeed, probably more so) laws restricting women and how they live.
Utter non sequitur PB comments are happy to whip up fear of Muslims as rapists, but also for their hero Cameron to prance around hand in glove with the Sauds
Everyone is generally happy to ignore prancing around with the Saudis - it's just a shameful piece of international realpolitik people prefer not to think about. If its not the saudis palled up to, it's some other monsters, that's the world.
Well I am not and neither are quite a few other posters on here.
The only reasoned argument I have heard from anyone on why we should maintain some sort of relationship with them is the exchange of intelligence which according to Rifkind has helped us prevent a series of attacks. But even there I am dubious about its value and in the end I see Saudi Arabia as a cause of terrorism not a solution.
By 'everyone generally' I meant politicians, particularly when in government. Obviously there will be specific exceptions.
It's strange. I'm a feminist, and I know (surprise, surprise) other feminists who are critical of rape and sexual assault irregardless of the ethnic background of the rapist. Yet according to PB 'feminists' in general are only/mainly critical of privileged white men when it comes to rape and sexual assault? The internet is not the place to go when you want a to see how representative a POV is. Looking at the DM comments section on SPOTY and looking at the actual vote is one example of that.
I know Corbyn must be bad if even my mum, who has turned left in the last year or so has turned against him. I'd really love to know how his supporters still think his leadership will bring good things for the Labour party. If there is a time where many people need a strong opposition it's now.
On Merkel, well I'm sure her legacy isn't going to be defined by some people on PB.
Happy New Year!
There are some (to me) very odd views about feminism on this site. It's strange to see people use "feminist" as a negative term or even an insult.
I agree that it's waaaay too early to be writing Merkel's obituary. AfD, who would be the obvious beneficiaries of backlash against her immigration policy, are still polling in single figures.
I think people (especially right-wing people) tend to feel that feminists should be only concerned about certain issues, and don't get that you can be concerned about rape, sexual assault, FGM and some of the 'less serious' issues regarding gender. I also feel there is an image of feminists as old, sex-negative, porn hating 'unattractive' women who want to take away sex and porn from men, and are just jealous of pretty women. I can say that I don't away to take away anyone's porn or sex, although I can't say I've never been critical of porn in my life.
Glad there's one person on here who agree with me on Merkel
It's the hypocrisy - apparently a scientist wearing the wrong t-shirt should lose his job.... Meanwhile over here... well, only a scumbag would mention *that*.....
Re the Sky news report on ISIS tech. The remote control car...don't mean to be funny, but Top Gear did that years ago and I seemed to remember they copied that off somebody else they had previously featured.
In fact, I am pretty sure Scrapheap challenge have done similar RC controlled vehicles that they knocked up in a day from as the name suggests scrap.
I agree wholeheartedly. Some cultures are better than others. I think Western culture is better on the whole than Middle Eastern culture. Those living in the Middle East may disagree. That is their right. But if they come to live here they live according to our rules. And if they don't want to, they can piss off.
What they need to - and don't - understand is that the freedoms which allow women to do what they want, including getting pissed and fall into the gutter after having given blow jobs to the local light infantry (if that is what they want to do) are the same freedoms which have resulted in us having a stable, free and economically prosperous society which is so attractive to the migrants. You can't have one without the other.
The freedom to do what you want is indivisible from the freedom to think what you want, to say what you want, to ask "why" and "why not", to invent, to create, to change and to refuse to accept that you have discovered all possible human knowledge and that there is nothing more to learn and that therefore nothing must change.
Great post as ever Ms @Cyclefree but okay I'll try and answer from the perspective of someone living in the Middle East, albeit in the most liberal city in the region. This is just my perspective, your mileage may vary, feel free to argue.
There is very little crime here, as we might think of it in the UK. No-one gets mugged for their phone or their pizza and perpetrators of that sort are quickly dealt with, end up spending time in the slammer followed by a free plane ticket out.
What there is though, is a cultural issue when it comes to young ladies - you have to watch teenage daughters very carefully, who they hang out with and how they get home etc. The punishments for sexual crimes are much less severe than would be expected in the UK, and a woman reporting a rape can be charged with a sexual misdemeanour herself according to Sharia Law. There would certainly be no sympathy at all for a woman who had consumed alcohol.
But the law is the law, when in Rome etc. The local government is clear that if you want to bring your customs here then you do so in private and in an appropriately sensitive manner, so as not to offend the local culture. I got married in the Catholic Church here, it's a lovely building inside but from the outside it could be a warehouse - there's no tower with bells ringing, it's in keeping with the local environment rather than seeking to displace it.
What is indefensible and unacceptable, is those who rush to countries like the UK because it's a liberal democracy with freedom of speech, and then try to close down that democracy and stifle that free speech.
If I or my daughter were assaulted by rapists and the police refused to or failed to take any action against the attackers, I would take my own revenge on them. I would be quite capable of killing anyone who harmed my daughter.
If the state fails in its most basic task - as Germany would appear to have done, first, by letting such people in; second, failing to protect its citizens from criminals; and thirdly, failing to bring such criminals to justice - then it should not be surprised if citizens take the law into their own hands.
The Germans should be reminded of the outrage they and the rest of us felt when we learnt of the mass rapes of Bosnian Muslim women by Serbs during the Yugoslav civil wars. They should be equally outraged if the same crimes are perpetrated on them.
The protection of women from what is a most horrible crime is not some optional nice-to-have. Sadly, this seems to be a lesson which needs to be taught every few years.
Cultural sensitivity is a complete bullshit phrase that needs to be stamped on and thrown out of our vocabulary. I'm not going to be sensitive towards those who have an inferior culture to our own.
But that rather begs the question. Why permit these people to immigrate into your country at all, unless you actually seek its destruction?
Search me, I'm half in the Trump camp of halting all immigration from Muslim countries. I make no bones about it, I think Islamic culture is vastly inferior to British culture, it does nothing to enrich this country and causes nothing but harm. Those that want to integrate I have no issue with, but too many are unwilling to do so and until they prove they are why bother with the hassle.
Trump doesn't just want to stop Muslim immigration, he wants to stop Muslims entering the US full stop.
That's why I said half.
The great irony is that US Muslims are much more integrated than in the UK, with above average incomes and levels of educational achievement. For humour value, you should check out The Shahs of Sunset, which is a reality TV show about Persian Muslims in LA.
Depends where you go and San Bernadino suggests not all US Muslims are peeaceloving all American types
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Merkel will go down in history as one of the worst Western leaders of the early 21st Century.
Germany has lower unemployment and debt than we do and she is probably the most powerful woman in the world, she is not even in the pool of worst leaders
At the moment Hilary is probably the most powerful woman in the world, she is the presumptive POTUS.
Merkel will be remembered as the woman who opened the door to extremists and terrorists. Her reputation has been irreparably damaged by the migrant crisis and her reaction to it.
"George Konrad, a distinguished novelist, loathes his country’s stridently illiberal prime minister, Viktor Orban.
“He is not a good democrat and I don’t believe he is a good person,” said Mr. Konrad, a veteran of communist-era struggles against dictatorship."
“It hurts to admit it, but on this point Orban was right,” Mr. Konrad, 82, "
A very critical article on the EU/Merkel stance from a bastion of the left, one which praises Orban, an ultra right quasi-dictator.
A bastion of the left ? New Statesman, Morning Star, Pravda, ?
No. The New York Times. God help us !
Next you'll be saying the Guardian is staffed by Tories!
Well, the BBC certainly are. Are you seriously saying that the No.1 newspaper of the No.1 capitalist country is leftist ? Are you confusing "liberal" with being "leftist". The two are not the same. Nick Clegg is no leftist of any sort.
Sky News showing report that ISIS have discovered a way to re-activate obsolete SAM missiles...
Former Chief of RAF says: "we're now in a different ballpark. There are hundreds of thousands of these things lying around, on scrapheaps..."
Seems a bit unlikely. Getting rockets to work, is well, rocket science. They need exceptional maintenance to keep them in top condition. If they arent in top condition they'll kill more of your own side than the enemy.
Are we to believe that ISIS has the infrastructure and capacity to reactivate and retrofit these on a large scale? The failure rate if experts were doing it would be 75% at best.
thanks, im sceptical but still frightened.... What happens when they're able to develop drones...
You mean, like these: youtube.com/watch?v=imtqooJj0I4
As an aside: I am at CES, and when the Disco is launched, I am SOOOOOO getting one.
Hell yeah!! How much are they? I have one of their original ar.drone quadcopters which were fantastic 5 years ago, but the tech has moved on a lot since then.
I am a Phantom pilot, and have been flying 2 years, really enjoy the hobby, I don't think I will change to fixed wing any time soon. Enjoy the CES.
I have a Phantom II VIsion +. Excellent for aerial photography on archaeology sites as it is the only one with a gimbal mounting that does true vertical shots. I am getting ready to get my licence in a few months so I can add it to the services my company provides.
Yes as I am sure you know as you say,you need a licence for commercial photography, I fly whenever the weather is OK, I am a mountain man, and love filming from the summits,the quality from the camera is excellent, but still tempted to upgrade. I am sure you know, but the Litchi App is superb for controlling your quad and particularly for Orbiting around a fixed spot.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: Merkel will go down in history as one of the worst Western leaders of the early 21st Century.
Germany has lower unemployment and debt than we do and she is probably the most powerful woman in the world, she is not even in the pool of worst leaders
After running her country flawlessly for a decade she made a monumental error. History is good at remembering mistakes.
Historically pre-Syria Merkel actually took less immigrants than Cameron, Brown and Blair
All of that means nothing when the policy she has pursued is letting in 1.5m people per year from a third world country.
'But that rather begs the question. Why permit these people to immigrate into your country at all, unless you actually seek its destruction?'
Well that is what the proponents of mass immigration want, in the sense of utterly changing the country they grew up in, and some of them would even say so.
If I or my daughter were assaulted by rapists and the police refused to or failed to take any action against the attackers, I would take my own revenge on them. I would be quite capable of killing anyone who harmed my daughter.
The Germans should be reminded of the outrage they and the rest of us felt when we learnt of the mass rapes of Bosnian Muslim women by Serbs during the Yugoslav civil wars. They should be equally outraged if the same crimes are perpetrated on them.
The protection of women from what is a most horrible crime is not some optional nice-to-have. Sadly, this seems to be a lesson which needs to be taught every few years.
Cultural sensitivity is a complete bullshit phrase that needs to be stamped on and thrown out of our vocabulary. I'm not going to be sensitive towards those who have an inferior culture to our own.
But that rather begs the question. Why permit these people to immigrate into your country at all, unless you actually seek its destruction?
Search me, I'm half in the Trump camp of halting all immigration from Muslim countries. I make no bones about it, I think Islamic culture is vastly inferior to British culture, it does nothing to enrich this country and causes nothing but harm. Those that want to integrate I have no issue with, but too many are unwilling to do so and until they prove they are why bother with the hassle.
Trump doesn't just want to stop Muslim immigration, he wants to stop Muslims entering the US full stop.
That's why I said half.
The great irony is that US Muslims are much more integrated than in the UK, with above average incomes and levels of educational achievement. For humour value, you should check out The Shahs of Sunset, which is a reality TV show about Persian Muslims in LA.
Depends where you go and San Bernadino suggests not all US Muslims are peeaceloving all American types
Most Muslims [ I am not talking abour American, mainly Black Muslims ] and, in fact, most immigrants from East , South Asia and the Middle East are professional and have stayed back after attaining their college / university degrees. The original immigrants to Europe were working class. In fact, rural working class. Their children, of course, are different having taken advantage of free British education. Most immigrant communities pay a lot of importance to education.
I do not doubt it but some ISIS terrorists have postgraduate degrees
I agree wholeheartedly. Some cultures are better than others. I think Western culture is better on the whole than Middle Eastern culture. Those living in the Middle East may disagree. That is their right. But if they come to live here they live according to our rules. And if they don't want to, they can piss off.
What they need to - and don't - understand is that the freedoms which allow women to do what they want, including getting pissed and fall into the gutter after having given blow jobs to the local light infantry (if that is what they want to do) are the same freedoms which have resulted in us having a stable, free and economically prosperous society which is so attractive to the migrants. You can't have one without the other.
The freedom to do what you want is indivisible from the freedom to think what you want, to say what you want, to ask "why" and "why not", to invent, to create, to change and to refuse to accept that you have discovered all possible human knowledge and that there is nothing more to learn and that therefore nothing must change.
Great post as ever Ms @Cyclefree but okay I'll try and answer from the perspective of someone living in the Middle East, albeit in the most liberal city in the region. This is just my perspective, your mileage may vary, feel free to argue.
There is very little crime here, as we might think of it in the UK. No-one gets mugged for their phone or their pizza and perpetrators of that sort are quickly dealt with, end up spending time in the slammer followed by a free plane ticket out.
What there is though, is a cultural issue when it comes to young ladies - you have to watch teenage daughters very carefully, who they hang out with and how they get home etc. The punishments for sexual crimes are much less severe than would be expected in the UK, and a woman reporting a rape can be charged with a sexual misdemeanour herself according to Sharia Law. There would certainly be no sympathy at all for a woman who had consumed alcohol.
But the law is the law, when in Rome etc. The local government is clear that if you want to bring your customs here then you do so in private and in an appropriately sensitive manner, so as not to offend the local culture. I got married in the Catholic Church here, it's a lovely building inside but from the outside it could be a warehouse - there's no tower with bells ringing, it's in keeping with the local environment rather than seeking to displace it.
What is indefensible and unacceptable, is those who rush to countries like the UK because it's a liberal democracy with freedom of speech, and then try to close down that democracy and stifle that free speech.
Have to go & will answer your thoughtful & interesting post later.
Re the Sky news report on ISIS tech. The remote control car...don't mean to be funny, but Top Gear did that years ago and I seemed to remember they copied that off somebody else they had previously featured.
In fact, I am pretty sure Scrapheap challenge have done similar RC controlled vehicles that they knocked up in a day from as the name suggests scrap.
Mythbusters were doing r/c cars a decade ago. It's exactly the same as small scale ones, just with bigger servos!
On the ISIS idiots finding old missiles. Yes please, can we give out 1,000 Darwin awards this year to the scumbags who think they can do rocket science, and can we sell tickets to watch them - with all proceeds to the Reaper fund..? :P
It's strange. I'm a feminist, and I know (surprise, surprise) other feminists who are critical of rape and sexual assault irregardless of the ethnic background of the rapist. Yet according to PB 'feminists' in general are only/mainly critical of privileged white men when it comes to rape and sexual assault? The internet is not the place to go when you want a to see how representative a POV is. Looking at the DM comments section on SPOTY and looking at the actual vote is one example of that.
I know Corbyn must be bad if even my mum, who has turned left in the last year or so has turned against him. I'd really love to know how his supporters still think his leadership will bring good things for the Labour party. If there is a time where many people need a strong opposition it's now.
On Merkel, well I'm sure her legacy isn't going to be defined by some people on PB.
Happy New Year!
There are some (to me) very odd views about feminism on this site. It's strange to see people use "feminist" as a negative term or even an insult.
I agree that it's waaaay too early to be writing Merkel's obituary. AfD, who would be the obvious beneficiaries of backlash against her immigration policy, are still polling in single figures.
I think people (especially right-wing people) tend to feel that feminists should be only concerned about certain issues, and don't get that you can be concerned about rape, sexual assault, FGM and some of the 'less serious' issues regarding gender. I also feel there is an image of feminists as old, sex-negative, porn hating 'unattractive' women who want to take away sex and porn from men, and are just jealous of pretty women. I can say that I don't away to take away anyone's porn or sex, although I can't say I've never been critical of porn in my life.
Glad there's one person on here who agree with me on Merkel
It's the hypocrisy - apparently a scientist wearing the wrong t-shirt should lose his job.... Meanwhile over here... well, only a scumbag would mention *that*.....
Those people are not feminists but a some idiots on twitter/tumblr.
I agree wholeheartedly. Some cultures are better than others. I think Western culture is better on the whole than Middle Eastern culture. Those living in the Middle East may disagree. That is their right. But if they come to live here they live according to our rules. And if they don't want to, they can piss off.
What they need to - and don't - understand is that the freedoms which allow women to do what they want, including getting pissed and fall into the gutter after having given blow jobs to the local light infantry (if that is what they want to do) are the same freedoms which have resulted in us having a stable, free and economically prosperous society which is so attractive to the migrants. You can't have one without the other.
The freedom to do what you want is indivisible from the freedom to think what you want, to say what you want, to ask "why" and "why not", to invent, to create, to change and to refuse to accept that you have discovered all possible human knowledge and that there is nothing more to learn and that therefore nothing must change.
Great post as ever Ms @Cyclefree but okay I'll try and answer from the perspective of someone living in the Middle East, albeit in the What there is though, is a cultural issue when it comes to young ladies - you have to watch teenage daughters very carefully, who they hang out with and how they get home etc. The punishments for sexual crimes are much less severe than would be expected in the UK, and a woman reporting a rape can be charged with a sexual misdemeanour herself according to Sharia Law. There would certainly be no sympathy at all for a woman who had consumed alcohol.
But the law is the law, when in Rome etc. The local government is clear that if you want to bring your customs here then you do so in private and in an appropriately sensitive manner, so as not to offend the local culture. I got married in the Catholic Church here, it's a lovely building inside but from the outside it could be a warehouse - there's no tower with bells ringing, it's in keeping with the local environment rather than seeking to displace it.
What is indefensible and unacceptable, is those who rush to countries like the UK because it's a liberal democracy with freedom of speech, and then try to close down that democracy and stifle that free speech.
"When in Rome" is good starting point. I have zero sympathy for Westerners who face a flogging for getting drunk or having sex in public in a Muslim country, or who risk a firing squad by trafficking drugs to Indonesia.
I would add that we need to take the same attitude towards countries that restrict the rights of women, as we did to countries that restricted the rights of people because of their skin colour.
We have a Leader of the Opposition who appears for and was, apparently, paid by the TV propaganda arm of a regime that uses rape as a punishment in prison, orders women what they can wear in public and who, when they first came into power, lowered the age of consent for girls to 9.
And who some think is being principled when he criticises our government for being friendly with an equally revolting regime with equally revolting (indeed, probably more so) laws restricting women and how they live.
Utter non sequitur PB comments are happy to whip up fear of Muslims as rapists, but also for their hero Cameron to prance around hand in glove with the Sauds
Everyone is generally happy to ignore prancing around with the Saudis - it's just a shameful piece of international realpolitik people prefer not to think about. If its not the saudis palled up to, it's some other monsters, that's the world.
Well I am not and neither are quite a few other posters on here.
The only reasoned argument I have heard from anyone on why we should maintain some sort of relationship with them is the exchange of intelligence which according to Rifkind has helped us prevent a series of attacks. But even there I am dubious about its value and in the end I see Saudi Arabia as a cause of terrorism not a solution.
I am getting into a bad habit. I have to agree 100% with you too !
I think a very basic mistake people make about Saudi Arabia is that it's government and the Royal family of 7000, and the people of Saudi Arabia are the same.
If you talk to middle class Saudis, your conversation will not be much different than in many other places. I have been inside houses where the wife came and talked to us without even a head scarf. She then smoked Shisha. And, I wouldn't say she was a great liberal either.
The Western interest lies with the Royal families of Saudi Arabia and indeed the whole Gulf.
The West needs them to siphon the ill-gotten gains [ remember the Tony Blair memo which stopped the Al-Yamamah court case in the "national interest" ] back to the west and the Royal families need the West to protect them. The ordinary Saudis, the poor [ there are many ] and the middle classes are the sufferers.
Cause of terrorism: where do you think the initial finance of Isis cam from ? An organisation suddenly cannot capture half of two countries from nowhere.
It's strange. I'm a feminist, and I know (surprise, surprise) other feminists who are critical of rape and sexual assault irregardless of the ethnic background of the rapist. Yet according to PB 'feminists' in general are only/mainly critical of privileged white men when it comes to rape and sexual assault? The internet is not the place to go when you want a to see how representative a POV is. Looking at the DM comments section on SPOTY and looking at the actual vote is one example of that.
I know Corbyn must be bad if even my mum, who has turned left in the last year or so has turned against him. I'd really love to know how his supporters still think his leadership will bring good things for the Labour party. If there is a time where many people need a strong opposition it's now.
On Merkel, well I'm sure her legacy isn't going to be defined by some people on PB.
Happy New Year!
There are some (to me) very odd views about feminism on this site. It's strange to see people use "feminist" as a negative term or even an insult.
I agree that it's waaaay too early to be writing Merkel's obituary. AfD, who would be the obvious beneficiaries of backlash against her immigration policy, are still polling in single figures.
I think people (especially right-wing people) tend to feel that feminists should be only concerned about certain issues, and don't get that you can be concerned about rape, sexual assault, FGM and some of the 'less serious' issues regarding gender. I also feel there is an image of feminists as old, sex-negative, porn hating 'unattractive' women who want to take away sex and porn from men, and are just jealous of pretty women. I can say that I don't away to take away anyone's porn or sex, although I can't say I've never been critical of porn in my life.
Glad there's one person on here who agree with me on Merkel
It's the hypocrisy - apparently a scientist wearing the wrong t-shirt should lose his job.... Meanwhile over here... well, only a scumbag would mention *that*.....
Those people are not feminists but a some idiots on twitter/tumblr.
The idiots are in Parliament and write for national newspapers. Unfortunately.
Essentially they are people who rather die than be seen suggesting that one culture is better than another culture - if the first culture generally has less of a suntan* than the second.
*Hilariously, the "ethnic trumps" types often don't realise that just because you are not "white", you can actually get a sun tan.
What they need to - and don't - understand is that the freedoms which allow women to do what they want, including getting pissed and fall into the gutter after having given blow jobs to the local light infantry (if that is what they want to do) are the same freedoms which have resulted in us having a stable, free and economically prosperous society which is so attractive to the migrants. You can't have one without the other.
The freedom to do what you want is indivisible from the freedom to think what you want, to say what you want, to ask "why" and "why not", to invent, to create, to change and to refuse to accept that you have discovered all possible human knowledge and that there is nothing more to learn and that therefore nothing must change.
Great post as ever Ms @Cyclefree but okay I'll try and answer from the perspective of someone living in the Middle East, albeit in the What there is though, is a cultural issue when it comes to young ladies - you have to watch teenage daughters very carefully, who they hang out with and how they get home etc. The punishments for sexual crimes are much less severe than would be expected in the UK, and a woman reporting a rape can be charged with a sexual misdemeanour herself according to Sharia Law. There would certainly be no sympathy at all for a woman who had consumed alcohol.
But the law is the law, when in Rome etc. The local government is clear that if you want to bring your customs here then you do so in private and in an appropriately sensitive manner, so as not to offend the local culture. I got married in the Catholic Church here, it's a lovely building inside but from the outside it could be a warehouse - there's no tower with bells ringing, it's in keeping with the local environment rather than seeking to displace it.
What is indefensible and unacceptable, is those who rush to countries like the UK because it's a liberal democracy with freedom of speech, and then try to close down that democracy and stifle that free speech.
"When in Rome" is good starting point. I have zero sympathy for Westerners who face a flogging for getting drunk or having sex in public in a Muslim country, or who risk a firing squad by trafficking drugs to Indonesia.
We also have to expect those who come to the UK to live within the rules and laws of our society - and that is where we have failed. By allowing communities to essentially segregate rather than integrate, we have set precedents whereby 'cultural sensitivities' are preventing the proper rule of law in all parts of our nation.
Re the Sky news report on ISIS tech. The remote control car...don't mean to be funny, but Top Gear did that years ago and I seemed to remember they copied that off somebody else they had previously featured.
In fact, I am pretty sure Scrapheap challenge have done similar RC controlled vehicles that they knocked up in a day from as the name suggests scrap.
Mythbusters were doing r/c cars a decade ago. It's exactly the same as small scale ones, just with bigger servos!
On the ISIS idiots finding old missiles. Yes please, can we give out 1,000 Darwin awards this year to the scumbags who think they can do rocket science, and can we sell tickets to watch them - with all proceeds to the Reaper fund..? :P
On a slightly serious point. I seemed to remember the UK government did a deal with Libya to train a load of Libyans over here, I think in the North East, in hands on practical mechanical engineering. I presume under the guise of something to do with maintenance of oil plants, and I don't think it was metal bashing, more technical than that.
Never seemed like a very good idea to me, given Libya's history....but then Tony and the tent and all that.
I agree wholeheartedly. Some cultures are better than others. I think Western culture is better on the whole than Middle Eastern culture. Those living in the Middle East may disagree. That is their right. But if they come to live here they live according to our rules. And if they don't want to, they can piss off.
The freedom to do what you want is indivisible from the freedom to think what you want, to say what you want, to ask "why" and "why not", to invent, to create, to change and to refuse to accept that you have discovered all possible human knowledge and that there is nothing more to learn and that therefore nothing must change.
Great post as ever Ms @Cyclefree but okay I'll try and answer from the perspective of someone living in the Middle East, albeit in the What there is though, is a cultural issue when it comes to young ladies - you have to watch teenage daughters very carefully, who they hang out with and how they get home etc. The punishments for sexual crimes are much less severe than would be expected in the UK, and a woman reporting a rape can be charged with a sexual misdemeanour herself according to Sharia Law. There would certainly be no sympathy at all for a woman who had consumed alcohol.
But the law is the law, when in Rome etc. The local government is clear that if you want to bring your customs here then you do so in private and in an appropriately sensitive manner, so as not to offend the local culture. I got married in the Catholic Church here, it's a lovely building inside but from the outside it could be a warehouse - there's no tower with bells ringing, it's in keeping with the local environment rather than seeking to displace it.
What is indefensible and unacceptable, is those who rush to countries like the UK because it's a liberal democracy with freedom of speech, and then try to close down that democracy and stifle that free speech.
"When in Rome" is good starting point. I have zero sympathy for Westerners who face a flogging for getting drunk or having sex in public in a Muslim country, or who risk a firing squad by trafficking drugs to Indonesia.
Quite. So why does the UK and Western Europe give the impression of bending over backwards to let people import their own cultures, complete with all the practices that we Westerners condemn?
I get the feeling that the German NYE story is about to blow up big time. Their press don't have the same 'sensitivities' that stopped the UK press reporting Rotherham for a decade.
I agree wholeheartedly. Some cultures are better than others. I think Western culture is better on the whole than Middle Eastern culture. Those living in the Middle East may disagree. That is their right. But if they come to live here they live according to our rules. And if they don't want to, they can piss off.
What they need to - and don't - understand is that the freedoms which allow women to do what they want, including getting pissed and fall into the gutter after having given blow jobs to the local light i
The freedom to do what you want is indivisible from the freedom to think what you want, to say what you want, to ask "why" and "why not", to invent, to create, to change and to refuse to accept that you have discovered all possible human knowledge and that there is nothing more to learn and that therefore nothing must change.
Great post as ever Ms @Cyclefree but okay I'll try and answer from the perspective of someone living in the Middle East, albeit in the most liberal city in the region. This is just my perspective, your mileage may vary, feel free to argue.
There is very little crime here, as we might think of it in the UK. No-one gets mugged for their phone or their pizza and perpetrators of that sort are quickly dealt with, end up spending time in the slammer followed by a free plane ticket out.
What there is though, is a cultural issue when it comes to young ladies - you have to watch teenage daughters very carefully, who they hang out with and how they get home etc. The punishments for sexual crimes are much less severe than would be expected in the UK, and a woman reporting a rape can be charged with a sexual misdemeanour herself according to Sharia Law. There would certainly be no sympathy at all for a woman who had consumed alcohol.
But the law is the law, when in Rome etc. The local government is clear that if you want to bring your customs here then you do so in private and in an appropriately sensitive manner, so as not to offend the local culture. I got married in the Catholic Church here, it's a lovely building inside but from the outside it could be a warehouse - there's no tower with bells ringing, it's in keeping with the local environment rather than seeking to displace it.
What is indefensible and unacceptable, is those who rush to countries like the UK because it's a liberal democracy with freedom of speech, and then try to close down that democracy and stifle that free speech.
Sex outside of marriage is technically illegal in several Middle Eastern nations including the UAE, Iran and Saudi
I would add that we need to take the same attitude towards countries that restrict the rights of women, as we did to countries that restricted the rights of people because of their skin colour.
.....
And who some think is being principled when he criticises our government for being friendly with an equally revolting regime with equally revolting (indeed, probably more so) laws restricting women and how they live.
Utter non sequitur PB comments are happy to whip up fear of Muslims as rapists, but also for their hero Cameron to prance around hand in glove with the Sauds
Everyone is generally happy to ignore prancing around with the Saudis - it's just a shameful piece of international realpolitik people prefer not to think about. If its not the saudis palled up to, it's some other monsters, that's the world.
Well I am not and neither are quite a few other posters on here.
The only reasoned argument I have heard from anyone on why we should maintain some sort of relationship with them is the exchange of intelligence which according to Rifkind has helped us prevent a series of attacks. But even there I am dubious about its value and in the end I see Saudi Arabia as a cause of terrorism not a solution.
I am getting into a bad habit. I have to agree 100% with you too !
I think a very basic mistake people make about Saudi Arabia is that it's government and the Royal family of 7000, and the people of Saudi Arabia are the same.
If you talk to middle class Saudis, your conversation will not be much different than in many other places. I have been inside houses where the wife came and talked to us without even a head scarf. She then smoked Shisha. And, I wouldn't say she was a great liberal either.
The Western interest lies with the Royal families of Saudi Arabia and indeed the whole Gulf.
The West needs them to siphon the ill-gotten gains [ remember the Tony Blair memo which stopped the Al-Yamamah court case in the "national interest" ] back to the west and the Royal families need the West to protect them. The ordinary Saudis, the poor [ there are many ] and the middle classes are the sufferers.
A sardonic joke from some Saudis of my acquaintance is that the West should really have stolen the oil. That way, at least they wouldn't have a pile of fools with wrecked sports cars and nut job preachers. As one put it - "Even the British in India didn't spend the money like this".
I agree wholeheartedly. Some cultures are better than others. I think Western culture is better on the whole than Middle Eastern culture. Those living in the Middle East may disagree. That is their right. But if they come to live here they live according to our rules. And if they don't want to, they
What they need to - and don't - understand is that the freedoms which allow women to do what they want, including getting pissed and fall into the gutter after having given blow jobs to the local light i
The freedom to do what you want is indivisible from the freedom to think what you want, to say what you want, to ask "why" and "why not", to invent, to create, to change and to refuse to accept that you have discovered all possible human knowledge and that there is nothing more to learn and that therefore nothing must change.
Great post as ever Ms @Cyclefree but okay I'll try and answer from the perspective of someone living in the Middle East, albeit in the most liberal city in the region. This is just my perspective, your mileage may vary, feel free to argue.
There is very little crime here, as we might think of it in the UK. No-one gets mugged for their phone or their pizza and perpetrators of that sort are quickly dealt with, end up spending time in the slammer followed by a free plane ticket out.
What there is though, is a cultural issue when it comes to young ladies - you have to watch teenage daughters very carefully, who they hang out with and how they get home etc. The punishments for sexual crimes are much less severe than would be expected in the UK, and a woman reporting a rape can be charged with a sexual misdemeanour herself according to Sharia Law. There would certainly be no sympathy at all for a woman who had consumed alcohol.
But the law is the law, when in Rome etc. The local government is clear that if you want to bring your customs here then you do so in private and in an appropriately sensitive manner, so as not to offend the local culture. I got married in the Catholic Church here, it's a lovely building inside but from the outside it could be a warehouse - there's no tower with bells ringing, it's in keeping with the local environment rather than seeking to displace it.
What is indefensible and unacceptable, is those who rush to countries like the UK because it's a liberal democracy with freedom of speech, and then try to close down that democracy and stifle that free speech.
Sex outside of marriage is technically illegal in several Middle Eastern nations including the UAE, Iran and Saudi
Correct I think in all the GCC States. Hotels have been known to ask questions on that subject to tourist visitors booking double rooms.
I would add that we need to take the same attitude towards countries that restrict the rights of women, as we did to countries that restricted the rights of people because of their skin colour.
.......
Utter non sequitur PB comments are happy to whip up fear of Muslims as rapists, but also for their hero Cameron to prance around hand in glove with the Sauds
Everyone is generally happy to ignore prancing around with the Saudis - it's just a shameful piece of international realpolitik people prefer not to think about. If its not the saudis palled up to, it's some other monsters, that's the world.
Well I am not and neither are quite a few other posters on here.
The only reasoned argument I have heard from anyone on why we should maintain some sort of relationship with them is the exchange of intelligence which according to Rifkind has helped us prevent a series of attacks. But even there I am dubious about its value and in the end I see Saudi Arabia as a cause of terrorism not a solution.
I am getting into a bad habit. I have to agree 100% with you too !
I think a very basic mistake people make about Saudi Arabia is that it's government and the Royal family of 7000, and the people of Saudi Arabia are the same.
If you talk to middle class Saudis, your conversation will not be much different than in many other places. I have been inside houses where the wife came and talked to us without even a head scarf. She then smoked Shisha. And, I wouldn't say she was a great liberal either.
The Western interest lies with the Royal families of Saudi Arabia and indeed the whole Gulf.
The West needs them to siphon the ill-gotten gains [ remember the Tony Blair memo which stopped the Al-Yamamah court case in the "national interest" ] back to the west and the Royal families need the West to protect them. The ordinary Saudis, the poor [ there are many ] and the middle classes are the sufferers.
A sardonic joke from some Saudis of my acquaintance is that the West should really have stolen the oil. That way, at least they wouldn't have a pile of fools with wrecked sports cars and nut job preachers. As one put it - "Even the British in India didn't spend the money like this".
When I worked for an oil company, it was quite interesting to see people coming from various societies, relatively untouched by western sensibilities.
In most other fields, you meet the ones who are already clued up on western manners and rules.
In the oil business you seem to get the original article, no varnish added...
I would add that we need to take the same attitude towards countries that restrict the rights of women, as we did to countries that restricted the rights of people because of their skin colour.
.....
And who some think is being principled when he criticises our government for being friendly with an equally revolting regime with equally revolting (indeed, probably more so) laws restricting women and how they live.
Utter non sequitur PB comments are happy to whip up fear of Muslims as rapists, but also for their hero Cameron to prance around hand in glove with the Sauds
Everyone is generally happy to ignore prancing around with the Saudis - it's just a shameful piece of international realpolitik people prefer not to think about. If its not the saudis palled up to, it's some other monsters, that's the world.
Well I am not and neither are quite a few other posters on here.
The only reasoned argument I have heard from anyone on why we should maintain some sort of relationship with them is the exchange of intelligence which according to Rifkind has helped us prevent a series of attacks. But even there I am dubious about its value and in the end I see Saudi Arabia as a cause of terrorism not a solution.
I am getting into a bad habit. I have to agree 100% with you too !
I think a very basic mistake people make about Saudi Arabia is that it's government and the Royal family of 7000, and the people of Saudi Arabia are the same.
If you talk to middle class Saudis, your conversation will not be much different than in many other places. I have been inside houses where the wife came and talked to us without even a head scarf. She then smoked Shisha. And, I wouldn't say she was a great liberal either.
The Western interest lies with the Royal families of Saudi Arabia and indeed the whole Gulf.
The West needs them to siphon the ill-gotten gains [ remember the Tony Blair memo which stopped the Al-Yamamah court case in the "national interest" ] back to the west and the Royal families need the West to protect them. The ordinary Saudis, the poor [ there are many ] and the middle classes are the sufferers.
A sardonic joke from some Saudis of my acquaintance is that the West should really have stolen the oil. That way, at least they wouldn't have a pile of fools with wrecked sports cars and nut job preachers. As one put it - "Even the British in India didn't spend the money like this".
If I or my daughter were assaulted by rapists and the police refused to or failed to take any action against the attackers, I would take my own revenge on them. I would be quite capable of killing anyone who harmed my daughter.
.
blockquote>
Search me, I'm half in the Trump camp of halting all immigration from Muslim countries. I make no bones about it, I think Islamic culture is vastly inferior to British culture, it does nothing to enrich this country and causes nothing but harm. Those that want to integrate I have no issue with, but too many are unwilling to do so and until they prove they are why bother with the hassle.
Trump doesn't just want to stop Muslim immigration, he wants to stop Muslims entering the US full stop.
That's why I said half.
The great irony is that US Muslims are much more integrated than in the UK, with above average incomes and levels of educational achievement. For humour value, you should check out The Shahs of Sunset, which is a reality TV show about Persian Muslims in LA.
Depends where you go and San Bernadino suggests not all US Muslims are peeaceloving all American types
Most Muslims [ I am not talking abour American, mainly Black Muslims ] and, in fact, most immigrants from East , South Asia and the Middle East are professional and have stayed back after attaining their college / university degrees. The original immigrants to Europe were working class. In fact, rural working class. Their children, of course, are different having taken advantage of free British education. Most immigrant communities pay a lot of importance to education.
I do not doubt it but some ISIS terrorists have postgraduate degrees
But if your point is that most Muslims are terrorists , you are badly wrong. Most Muslims also get up in the morning, have breakfast, go to work, come home, watch TV , go to bed like most other people.
They also want their kids to do well in education. In fact, like other immigrants they "dream" through their children. That is why they put so much stress on their children's education.
Those people are not feminists but a some idiots on twitter/tumblr.
Unfortunately because of outrage culture, politicians and journalists react to it. Look at that idiot trying to remove the Rhodes statue and ban the French flag from Oxford campuses, he whipped up some outrage and got 20-30 people retweeting his bullshit and got national coverage. Politicians are so scared to offend people that they will do anything or say anything to avoid that. The same is true for companies. I was quite glad when Dave declined on wearing that stupid feminist T-shirt, it showed he wasn't a completely gelatinous blob like Miliband.
It makes for grim reading, but it is quite comprehensive. The figures are higher than I had read previously.
The report bears close reading. It should make all of us even more glad to be born in the UK.
Nothing I am writing here should be taken as me denying either that FGM is awful, or that it affects women in the UK, but I've seen this report misquoted often enough that I did sit down to read it properly. The figures given basically focus on the prevalence of certain risk factors among babies born in the UK, in particular:
a. Numbers of women with FGM living in England and Wales and in each local authority area giving birth each year from 2000 to 2011. b. Numbers of daughters born to women born in FGM-practising countries resident in England and Wales and in each local authority area and numbers at risk of FGM.
It does a very thorough job of this by, for instance, attempting to break down the ethnic/cultural makeup of groups who have come to the UK - for instance East African Indians have been filtered out, because they make a disproportionate contribution to UK migration from East Africa but have a lower (near zero) FGM rate compared to black East Africans.
The report does not attempt to give figures for the incidence of FGM in the UK, and warns explicitly that it does not intend to do so. It notes with regret that there is a lack of data on the actual incidence here, for various practical reasons, and confines itself to stating figures for babies born subject to the risk factors listed above.
I have seen people claim, for instance, that the report (and particularly the fact that the numbers at risk have increased since previous versions of the report) show there is an "epidemic" of FGM in the UK, but this is essentially a statistical reflection of the increased migration to the UK from high-prevalence areas like the Horn of Africa and Kurdistan (curiously, Iraqi Kurds are a high FGM-prevalence group whereas Iraqi Arabs have "minimal" FGM prevalence - rather contrary to the stereotypes we often have of the Kurds as the "good", liberal secular side of Iraqi society...) and also big rises in migration from areas with lower but still substantial FGM-prevalence like Nigeria. It's clearly not correct to assume that these groups continue to apply FGM at the same rate that was present in their home countries.
I would add that we need to take the same attitude towards countries that restrict the rights of women, as we did to countries that restricted the rights of people because of their skin colour.
.....
And who some think is being principled when he criticises our government for being friendly with an equally revolting regime with equally revolting (indeed, probably more so) laws restricting women and how they live.
.....
I am getting into a bad habit. I have to agree 100% with you too !
I think a very basic mistake people make about Saudi Arabia is that it's government and the Royal family of 7000, and the people of Saudi Arabia are the same.
If you talk to middle class Saudis, your conversation will not be much different than in many other places. I have been inside houses where the wife came and talked to us without even a head scarf. She then smoked Shisha. And, I wouldn't say she was a great liberal either.
The Western interest lies with the Royal families of Saudi Arabia and indeed the whole Gulf.
The West needs them to siphon the ill-gotten gains [ remember the Tony Blair memo which stopped the Al-Yamamah court case in the "national interest" ] back to the west and the Royal families need the West to protect them. The ordinary Saudis, the poor [ there are many ] and the middle classes are the sufferers.
A sardonic joke from some Saudis of my acquaintance is that the West should really have stolen the oil. That way, at least they wouldn't have a pile of fools with wrecked sports cars and nut job preachers. As one put it - "Even the British in India didn't spend the money like this".
That's funny. Mainly because it's so true.
It just makes me angry. So I listen to Until It Sleeps...
In the oil business it's a common place that oil screws up a country.
Expect Norway. But that's the Norwegians for you on economics. They consulted the experts. The experts told them to do the reverse of the obvious (stick all the money in their economy). The Norwegians did what the experts suggested. Mad lot the Norwegians.....
I agree wholeheartedly. Some cultures are better than others. I think Western culture is better on the whole than Middle Eastern culture. Those living in the Middle East may disagree. That is their right. But if they come to live here they live according to our rules. And if they don't want to, they
What they need to - and don't - understand is that the freedoms which allow women to do what they want, including getting pissed and fall into the gutter after having given blow jobs to the lo
Great post as ever Ms @Cyclefree but okay I'll try and answer from the perspective of someone living in the Middle East, albeit in the most liberal city in the region. This is just my perspective, your mileage may vary, feel free to argue.
There is very little crime here, as we might think of it in the UK. No-one gets mugged for their phone or their pizza and perpetrators of that sort are quickly dealt with, end up spending time in the slammer followed by a free plane ticket out.
What there is though, is a cultural issue when it comes to young ladies - you have to watch teenage daughters very carefully, who they hang out with and how they get home etc. The punishments for sexual crimes are much less severe than would be expected in the UK, and a woman reporting a rape can be charged with a sexual misdemeanour herself according to Sharia Law. There would certainly be no sympathy at all for a woman who had consumed alcohol.
But the law is the law, when in Rome etc. The local government is clear that if you want to bring your customs here then you do so in private and in an appropriately sensitive manner, so as not to offend the local culture. I got married in the Catholic Church here, it's a lovely building inside but from the outside it could be a warehouse - there's no tower with bells ringing, it's in keeping with the local environment rather than seeking to displace it.
What is indefensible and unacceptable, is those who rush to countries like the UK because it's a liberal democracy with freedom of speech, and then try to close down that democracy and stifle that free speech.
Sex outside of marriage is technically illegal in several Middle Eastern nations including the UAE, Iran and Saudi
Correct I think in all the GCC States. Hotels have been known to ask questions on that subject to tourist visitors booking double rooms.
Yes, in the Gulf states certainly. Though the top hotels may turn a discreet blind eye
If anything, perversely, higher numbers at risk shown in the City University series of reports on FGM in the UK actually indicate a reduction in FGM globally, since it reflects migration from areas with high FGM rate and low barriers to FGM to a country, Britain, with low FGM rates and higher barriers to committing FGM. Had their mothers not migrated to Britain and those babies been born in their mothers' home countries instead, they would surely have been more likely to suffer FGM.
As for the issue of FGM being a "Muslim thing", the report's conclusion is clear:
FGM is practised by specific ethnic groups and the rationale for the practice differs from one group to the other. It is also constantly changing. In some societies, the practice is embedded in coming-of-age rituals which are considered necessary for girls to become adult and responsible members of the society. It is believed to be a religious requirement by some Muslim populations who practise FGM although FGM is not mentioned in the Koran and most Muslims in the world do not know about FGM. Moreover, in communities where FGM is a social norm, it is practised by Muslims, Christians and followers of indigenous religions which suggest that the practice is more cultural than a religious practice.
The areas with the highest prevalence are the horn of Africa (including some predominantly Christian countries), Kurdistan, and to some extent West Africa and East Africa.
Those people are not feminists but a some idiots on twitter/tumblr.
Unfortunately because of outrage culture, politicians and journalists react to it. Look at that idiot trying to remove the Rhodes statue and ban the French flag from Oxford campuses, he whipped up some outrage and got 20-30 people retweeting his bullshit and got national coverage. Politicians are so scared to offend people that they will do anything or say anything to avoid that. The same is true for companies. I was quite glad when Dave declined on wearing that stupid feminist T-shirt, it showed he wasn't a completely gelatinous blob like Miliband.
Young black and female Twitter outrage is idiotic, bullshit, scary, stupid, gelatinous, blobby In contrast PB outrage is righteous and sound I could ask why but I'm sure it is too obvious to be explained
I agree wholeheartedly. Some cultures are better than others. I think Western culture is better on the whole than Middle Eastern culture. Those living in the Middle East may disagree. That is their right. But if they come to live here they live according to our rules. And if they don't want to, they
What they need to - and don't - understand is that the freedoms which allow women to do what they want, including getting pissed and fall into the gutter after having given blow jobs to the lo
Great post as ever Ms @Cyclefree but okay I'll try and answer from the perspective of someone living in the Middle East, albeit in the most liberal city in the region. This is just my perspective, your mileage may vary, feel free to argue.
There is very little crime here, as we might think of it in the UK. No-one gets mugged for their phone or their pizza and perpetrators of that sort are quickly dealt with, end up spending time in the slammer followed by a free plane ticket out.
Wlace it.
What is indefensible and unacceptable, is those who rush to countries like the UK because it's a liberal democracy with freedom of speech, and then try to close down that democracy and stifle that free speech.
Sex outside of marriage is technically illegal in several Middle Eastern nations including the UAE, Iran and Saudi
Correct I think in all the GCC States. Hotels have been known to ask questions on that subject to tourist visitors booking double rooms.
Yes, in the Gulf states certainly. Though the top hotels may turn a discreet blind eye
I think they largely turn a blind eye to most things that visitors and western ex pats do, just dont take the p*ss about it. Dont brew your own booze!!! FFS, thats an obvious recent one.
I agree wholeheartedly. Some cultures are better than others. I think Western culture is better on the whole than Middle Eastern culture. Those living in the Middle East may disagree. That is their right.
What they need to - and don't - understand is that the freedoms which allow women to do what they want, including getting pissed and fall into the gutter after having given blow jobs to the lo
Great post as ever Ms @Cyclefree but okay I'll try and answer from the perspective of someone living in the Middle East, albeit in the most liberal city in the region. This is just my perspective, your mileage may vary, feel free to argue.
There is very little crime here, as we might think of it in the UK. No-one gets mugged for their phone or their pizza and perpetrators of that sort are quickly dealt with, end up spending time in the slammer followed by a free plane ticket out.
What there is though, is a cultural issue when it comes to young ladies - you have to watch teenage daughters very carefully, who they hang out with and how they get home etc. The punishments for sexual crimes are much less severe than would be expected in the UK, and a woman reporting a rape can be charged with a sexual misdemeanour herself according to Sharia Law. There would certainly be no sympathy at all for a woman who had consumed alcohol.
But the law is the law, when in Rome etc. The local government is clear that if you want to bring your customs here then you do so in private and in an appropriately sensitive manner, so as not to offend the local culture. I got married in the Catholic Church here, it's a lovely building inside but from the outside it could be a warehouse - there's no tower with bells ringing, it's in keeping with the local environment rather than seeking to displace it.
What is indefensible and unacceptable, is those who rush to countries like the UK because it's a liberal democracy with freedom of speech, and then try to close down that democracy and stifle that free speech.
Sex outside of marriage is technically illegal in several Middle Eastern nations including the UAE, Iran and Saudi
Correct I think in all the GCC States. Hotels have been known to ask questions on that subject to tourist visitors booking double rooms.
Yes, in the Gulf states certainly. Though the top hotels may turn a discreet blind eye
They're more interested in preventing prostitution than in stifling tourism, but certain friend couples have been questioned like this several times. Hint: there's no PC nonsense, people are questioned based on appearance.
I would add that we need to take the same attitude towards countries that restrict the rights of women, as we did to countries that restricted the rights of people because of their skin colour.
We have a Leader of the Opposition who appears for and was, apparently, paid by the TV propaganda arm of a regime that uses rape as a punishment in prison, orders women what they can wear in public and who, when they first came into power, lowered the age of consent for girls to 9.
And who some think is being principled when he criticises our government for being friendly with an equally revolting regime with equally revolting (indeed, probably more so) laws restricting women and how they live.
Utter non sequitur PB comments are happy to whip up fear of Muslims as rapists, but also for their hero Cameron to prance around hand in glove with the Sauds
Everyone is generally happy to ignore prancing around with the Saudis - it's just a shameful piece of international realpolitik people prefer not to think about. If its not the saudis palled up to, it's some other monsters, that's the world.
r.
The Western interest lies with the Royal families of Saudi Arabia and indeed the whole Gulf.
The West needs them to siphon the ill-gotten gains [ remember the Tony Blair memo which stopped the Al-Yamamah court case in the "national interest" ] back to the west and the Royal families need the West to protect them. The ordinary Saudis, the poor [ there are many ] and the middle classes are the sufferers.
Cause of terrorism: where do you think the initial finance of Isis cam from ? An organisation suddenly cannot capture half of two countries from nowhere.
But we no longer need their oil.... It aint running out, we are awash in the stuff.
I agree wholeheartedly. Some cultures are better than others. I think Western culture is better on the whole than Middle Eastern culture. Those living in the Middle East may disagree. That is their right. But if they come to live here they live according to our rules. And if they don't want to, they
What they need to - and don't - understand is that the freedoms which allow women to do what they want, including getting pissed and fall into the gutter after having given blow jobs to the lo
Great post as ever Ms @Cyclefree but okay I'll try and answer from the perspective of someone living in the Middle East, albeit in the most liberal city in the region. This is just my perspective, your mileage may vary, feel free to argue.
There is very little crime here, as we might think of it in the UK. No-one gets mugged for their phone or their pizza and perpetrators of that sort are quickly dealt with, end up spending time in the slammer followed by a free plane ticket out.
Wlace it.
What is indefensible and unacceptable, is those who rush to countries like the UK because it's a liberal democracy with freedom of speech, and then try to close down that democracy and stifle that free speech.
Sex outside of marriage is technically illegal in several Middle Eastern nations including the UAE, Iran and Saudi
Correct I think in all the GCC States. Hotels have been known to ask questions on that subject to tourist visitors booking double rooms.
Yes, in the Gulf states certainly. Though the top hotels may turn a discreet blind eye
I think they largely turn a blind eye to most things that visitors and western ex pats do, just dont take the p*ss about it. Dont brew your own booze!!! FFS, thats an obvious recent one.
Yes provided you don't do anything you would not do at home or flagrantly disregard local customs you should be OK
On Merkel, well I'm sure her legacy isn't going to be defined by some people on PB.
Happy New Year!
There are some (to me) very odd views about feminism on this site. It's strange to see people use "feminist" as a negative term or even an insult.
I agree that it's waaaay too early to be writing Merkel's obituary. AfD, who would be the obvious beneficiaries of backlash against her immigration policy, are still polling in single figures.
I think people (especially right-wing people) tend to feel that feminists should be only concerned about certain issues, and don't get that you can be concerned about rape, sexual assault, FGM and some of the 'less serious' issues regarding gender. I also feel there is an image of feminists as old, sex-negative, porn hating 'unattractive' women who want to take away sex and porn from men, and are just jealous of pretty women. I can say that I don't away to take away anyone's porn or sex, although I can't say I've never been critical of porn in my life.
Glad there's one person on here who agree with me on Merkel
It's the hypocrisy - apparently a scientist wearing the wrong t-shirt should lose his job.... Meanwhile over here... well, only a scumbag would mention *that*.....
The irony was the scientist concerned was wearing the wrong t-shirt BOUGHT BY HIS WIFE - so he would have something smart to wear on the telly...
I agree wholeheartedly. Some cultures are better than others. I think Western culture is better on the whole than Middle Eastern culture. Those living in the Middle East may disagree. That is their right. But if they come to live here they live according to our rules. And if they don't want to, they
What they need to - and don't - understand is that the freedoms which allow women to do what they want, including getting pissed and fall into the gutter after having given blow jobs to the lo
Great post as ever Ms @Cyclefree but okay I'll try and answer from the perspective of someone living in the Middle East, albeit in the most liberal city in the region. This is just my perspective, your mileage may vary, feel free to argue.
There is very little crime here, as we might think of it in the UK. No-one gets mugged for their phone or their pizza and perpetrators of that sort are quickly dealt with, end up spending time in the slammer followed by a free plane ticket out.
Wlace it.
What is indefensible and unacceptable, is those who rush to countries like the UK because it's a liberal democracy with freedom of speech, and then try to close down that democracy and stifle that free speech.
Sex outside of marriage is technically illegal in several Middle Eastern nations including the UAE, Iran and Saudi
Correct I think in all the GCC States. Hotels have been known to ask questions on that subject to tourist visitors booking double rooms.
Yes, in the Gulf states certainly. Though the top hotels may turn a discreet blind eye
I think they largely turn a blind eye to most things that visitors and western ex pats do, just dont take the p*ss about it. Dont brew your own booze!!! FFS, thats an obvious recent one.
Yeah, the Saudi Moonshiners, idiots. As you say, keep your head down and you'll be fine. Don't have sex on the beach and then assault the policeman who tells you to get dressed, that's one from Dubai a couple of years ago - and she was 30, had lived here for 3 years!
I agree wholeheartedly. Some cultures are better than others. I think Western culture is better on the whole than Middle Eastern culture. Those living in the Middle East may disagree. That is their right. But if they come to live here they live according to our rules. And if they don't want to, they
What they need to - and don't - understand is that the freedoms which allow women to do what they want, including getting pissed and fall into the gutter after having given blow jobs to the lo
Great post as ever Ms @Cyclefree but okay I'll try and answer from the perspective of someone living in the Middle East, albeit in the most liberal city in the region. This is just my perspective, your mileage may vary, feel free to argue.
There is very little crime here, as we might think of it in the UK. No-one gets mugged for their phone or their pizza and perpetrators of that sort are quickly dealt with, end up spending time in the slammer followed by a free plane ticket out.
Wlace it.
What is indefensible and unacceptable, is those who rush to countries like the UK because it's a liberal democracy with freedom of speech, and then try to close down that democracy and stifle that free speech.
Sex outside of marriage is technically illegal in several Middle Eastern nations including the UAE, Iran and Saudi
Correct I think in all the GCC States. Hotels have been known to ask questions on that subject to tourist visitors booking double rooms.
Yes, in the Gulf states certainly. Though the top hotels may turn a discreet blind eye
I think they largely turn a blind eye to most things that visitors and western ex pats do, just dont take the p*ss about it. Dont brew your own booze!!! FFS, thats an obvious recent one.
Even that as long as you do it in your own home and don't make a big deal about it, like having a raucous party, you will not be bothered.
Comments
Anyway, as it is for treason, could such a crime, properly tried, be a candidate for a "one strike and you're out" approach?
Malmesbury
"So the lack of complete sexual freedom causes immigrants to attack women? Interesting..."
Not at all. I was just answering Cyclefree's post. Our generalizations are too wide of the mark. We don't live in this sixties dream and neither are all Muslim countries the repressed places described on here. Istanbul is one of the least repressed places I've been to and overwhelmingly Muslim. I'm pretty sure you'd find a livelier time there without interference from the law than you would in Dublin
FGM is primarily, if not wholly, a Horn of Africa cultural and some in the rural parts of Sudan and Upper Egypt, possibly.
Rape is rape is rape, regardless of the ethnic/religious background of the rapist or the victim. All are or should be equal under the law. But that has not always been the de facto position for all women or all rapists. And too many of those who have purported to speak for the women's cause have not been clear about saying what I have just said. The fact that, for instance, the German authorities are providing guides to women about what they have to do to avoid crimes is pathetic victim-blaming. It does not place the blame squarely where it rests. On the perpetrators of crimes.
And that ambiguity is fatal to any serious attempt to deal with such crimes, to any serious attempt to ensure that a woman can feel safe and secure in public and in private.
Most people can't be arsed. Those that can (as welll as many of those who can't) don't act because of their desire to prioritise demonstration of their anti-prejudice coupled with a very real fear of biteback.
So they don't go there.
*ducks for cover*
Why didn't PB comments condemn the endemic problem of violence against women when it wasn't being committed by Muslims?
Before we even start on the violence perpetrated by the very sex industry which probably enjoys support for full legalisation among the men around here
And who some think is being principled when he criticises our government for being friendly with an equally revolting regime with equally revolting (indeed, probably more so) laws restricting women and how they live.
There are some (to me) very odd views about feminism on this site. It's strange to see people use "feminist" as a negative term or even an insult.
I agree that it's waaaay too early to be writing Merkel's obituary. AfD, who would be the obvious beneficiaries of backlash against her immigration policy, are still polling in single figures.
Our priority is to ensure that our society remains that safe. You are absolutely right to argue that means our laws require enforcement without fear or favour. It is shameful the abuse of women is given such a low priority in our society. The fact that it is a higher priority than pretty much any society in history does not excuse the failure.
It makes for grim reading, but it is quite comprehensive. The figures are higher than I had read previously.
PB comments are happy to whip up fear of Muslims as rapists, but also for their hero Cameron to prance around hand in glove with the Sauds
Bottom of the garden, but instead of flying straight up they spun round in circles and then flew off, randomnly, just over the roofline
Glad there's one person on here who agree with me on Merkel
The only reasoned argument I have heard from anyone on why we should maintain some sort of relationship with them is the exchange of intelligence which according to Rifkind has helped us prevent a series of attacks. But even there I am dubious about its value and in the end I see Saudi Arabia as a cause of terrorism not a solution.
No. The New York Times. God help us !
In a western country (in general) you have to work at it to get arrested. Bit of Istanbul and a few other places aside, in general the Muslim countries vary from 1850s repression of women to 1350s (from a UK perspective).
In fact, I am pretty sure Scrapheap challenge have done similar RC controlled vehicles that they knocked up in a day from as the name suggests scrap.
There is very little crime here, as we might think of it in the UK. No-one gets mugged for their phone or their pizza and perpetrators of that sort are quickly dealt with, end up spending time in the slammer followed by a free plane ticket out.
What there is though, is a cultural issue when it comes to young ladies - you have to watch teenage daughters very carefully, who they hang out with and how they get home etc. The punishments for sexual crimes are much less severe than would be expected in the UK, and a woman reporting a rape can be charged with a sexual misdemeanour herself according to Sharia Law. There would certainly be no sympathy at all for a woman who had consumed alcohol.
But the law is the law, when in Rome etc. The local government is clear that if you want to bring your customs here then you do so in private and in an appropriately sensitive manner, so as not to offend the local culture. I got married in the Catholic Church here, it's a lovely building inside but from the outside it could be a warehouse - there's no tower with bells ringing, it's in keeping with the local environment rather than seeking to displace it.
What is indefensible and unacceptable, is those who rush to countries like the UK because it's a liberal democracy with freedom of speech, and then try to close down that democracy and stifle that free speech.
Well that is what the proponents of mass immigration want, in the sense of utterly changing the country they grew up in, and some of them would even say so.
I hope you (and the rest of PB too) had a great Christmas.
On the ISIS idiots finding old missiles. Yes please, can we give out 1,000 Darwin awards this year to the scumbags who think they can do rocket science, and can we sell tickets to watch them - with all proceeds to the Reaper fund..? :P
I think a very basic mistake people make about Saudi Arabia is that it's government and the Royal family of 7000, and the people of Saudi Arabia are the same.
If you talk to middle class Saudis, your conversation will not be much different than in many other places. I have been inside houses where the wife came and talked to us without even a head scarf. She then smoked Shisha. And, I wouldn't say she was a great liberal either.
The Western interest lies with the Royal families of Saudi Arabia and indeed the whole Gulf.
The West needs them to siphon the ill-gotten gains [ remember the Tony Blair memo which stopped the Al-Yamamah court case in the "national interest" ] back to the west and the Royal families need the West to protect them. The ordinary Saudis, the poor [ there are many ] and the middle classes are the sufferers.
Cause of terrorism: where do you think the initial finance of Isis cam from ? An organisation suddenly cannot capture half of two countries from nowhere.
Essentially they are people who rather die than be seen suggesting that one culture is better than another culture - if the first culture generally has less of a suntan* than the second.
*Hilariously, the "ethnic trumps" types often don't realise that just because you are not "white", you can actually get a sun tan.
Never seemed like a very good idea to me, given Libya's history....but then Tony and the tent and all that.
I get the feeling that the German NYE story is about to blow up big time. Their press don't have the same 'sensitivities' that stopped the UK press reporting Rotherham for a decade.
In most other fields, you meet the ones who are already clued up on western manners and rules.
In the oil business you seem to get the original article, no varnish added...
Nothing I am writing here should be taken as me denying either that FGM is awful, or that it affects women in the UK, but I've seen this report misquoted often enough that I did sit down to read it properly. The figures given basically focus on the prevalence of certain risk factors among babies born in the UK, in particular: It does a very thorough job of this by, for instance, attempting to break down the ethnic/cultural makeup of groups who have come to the UK - for instance East African Indians have been filtered out, because they make a disproportionate contribution to UK migration from East Africa but have a lower (near zero) FGM rate compared to black East Africans.
The report does not attempt to give figures for the incidence of FGM in the UK, and warns explicitly that it does not intend to do so. It notes with regret that there is a lack of data on the actual incidence here, for various practical reasons, and confines itself to stating figures for babies born subject to the risk factors listed above.
I have seen people claim, for instance, that the report (and particularly the fact that the numbers at risk have increased since previous versions of the report) show there is an "epidemic" of FGM in the UK, but this is essentially a statistical reflection of the increased migration to the UK from high-prevalence areas like the Horn of Africa and Kurdistan (curiously, Iraqi Kurds are a high FGM-prevalence group whereas Iraqi Arabs have "minimal" FGM prevalence - rather contrary to the stereotypes we often have of the Kurds as the "good", liberal secular side of Iraqi society...) and also big rises in migration from areas with lower but still substantial FGM-prevalence like Nigeria. It's clearly not correct to assume that these groups continue to apply FGM at the same rate that was present in their home countries.
@georgeeaton: Labour MP on Thornberry: "Would be extraordinary if we ended up with a shadow defence sec who sneers at her own flag."
As for the issue of FGM being a "Muslim thing", the report's conclusion is clear: The areas with the highest prevalence are the horn of Africa (including some predominantly Christian countries), Kurdistan, and to some extent West Africa and East Africa.
In contrast PB outrage is righteous and sound
I could ask why but I'm sure it is too obvious to be explained
Zzzzz Zzzzz Zzzzz Zzzzz