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  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Walking ten miles would take about three hours, so required a fair bit of free time.
    kle4 said:

    I joke about New Year's resolutions, but without terming it as such I did start a diet and exercise regime from around January 4th last year, and lost 2 stone in 2 months (only a quarter of which has been put back on), so it does work out sometimes.

    I doubt my 'walk ten miles a day, have one chicken breast in one slice of bread with a small piece of cheese for dinner' regime was very healthy though.

  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061
    edited December 2015

    Pong said:

    Lol @ Lynton Crosby.

    Must be a contender for the most dishonourable honour ever.

    Quite high risk, too.

    Crosby's understanding of the public has been shown by events to be massively in excess of anything the pollsters managed. For that insight alone, from which others can learn, the honour is deserved. He is a market leader in his field by a mile: in any other industry there'd have been no criticism.

    Besides, far better for the state to reward political service with cheap gongs than with real power or money.
    Mr Herdson you one of my favourite article writers on here but that is utter tosh, knighting somebody for masterminding an election victory is disgraceful, if Blair had knighted Alistair Campbell you would have been apoplectic. I'm afraid even the more rational Tories are embarrassing themselves here.

    Nonsense. He's at least done something and isn't being given any position of power (unlike someone with a peerage) - plenty of people who have done literally nothing and are much shadier, or have just given money to a party, who get rewarded.

    As a continued example of disliking the honours system, I get it. As an egregious example of its flaws? I do not see it. It is no more a disgrace than most political honours - that being the case, how can someone get especially angry at this one example?

    I voted LD (in a Tory held seat) if it helps at all. If Labour want to reward someone the same way, that's fine too.
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    Mr. Meeks, it doesn't. The outrage is from people with columns to fill and nothing else happening, and those who wish to knock Cameron.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    ydoethur said:

    surbiton said:

    Maybe disaffected Labour supporters need to take Crosby Stills & Nash's advice. If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with.

    I prefer teach the children to love Labour.
    The party, the verb or the process?
    Capital "L". It is a noun -so Party.
  • Options

    Pong said:

    Lol @ Lynton Crosby.

    Must be a contender for the most dishonourable honour ever.

    Quite high risk, too.

    Crosby's understanding of the public has been shown by events to be massively in excess of anything the pollsters managed. For that insight alone, from which others can learn, the honour is deserved. He is a market leader in his field by a mile: in any other industry there'd have been no criticism.

    Besides, far better for the state to reward political service with cheap gongs than with real power or money.
    Mr Herdson you one of my favourite article writers on here but that is utter tosh, knighting somebody for masterminding an election victory is disgraceful, if Blair had knighted Alistair Campbell you would have been apoplectic. I'm afraid even the more rational Tories are embarrassing themselves here.

    Blair ennobled Philip Gould, Lady Thatcher ennobled Tim Bell, Maurice Saatchi got a peerage too.

    PMs give honours to those that help them win elections.

    If anything Crosby should be pissed off he only got a Knighthood.

    At minimum he should have become a Royal Duke, Lynton Crosby, Duke of Sheffield would have been appropriate
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Pong said:

    Lol @ Lynton Crosby.

    Must be a contender for the most dishonourable honour ever.

    Quite high risk, too.

    Crosby's understanding of the public has been shown by events to be massively in excess of anything the pollsters managed. For that insight alone, from which others can learn, the honour is deserved. He is a market leader in his field by a mile: in any other industry there'd have been no criticism.

    Besides, far better for the state to reward political service with cheap gongs than with real power or money.
    Mr Herdson you one of my favourite article writers on here but that is utter tosh, knighting somebody for masterminding an election victory is disgraceful, if Blair had knighted Alistair Campbell you would have been apoplectic. I'm afraid even the more rational Tories are embarrassing themselves here.

    There are abundant examples of party strategists getting honours, Spencer Livermore being the most recent but also Philip Gould and Tim Bell. I'm not a fan of the honours system but I struggle to see how this knighthood breaks new ground.
    I didn't say it broke new ground I said it's a disgrace. Crosby is superb at what he's paid to do, he undermined the Labour campaign in a very effective way, that was his job. But honours should be about service to the country not a political party. (Yes, I hear you say, when it's a Tory that's the same thing).

    This award demeans the system and highlights Cameron's continual bad personal judgement.

  • Options

    Labour made Gould a lord. I don't understand your point.

    Pong said:

    Lol @ Lynton Crosby.

    Must be a contender for the most dishonourable honour ever.

    Quite high risk, too.

    Crosby's understanding of the public has been shown by events to be massively in excess of anything the pollsters managed. For that insight alone, from which others can learn, the honour is deserved. He is a market leader in his field by a mile: in any other industry there'd have been no criticism.

    Besides, far better for the state to reward political service with cheap gongs than with real power or money.
    Mr Herdson you one of my favourite article writers on here but that is utter tosh, knighting somebody for masterminding an election victory is disgraceful, if Blair had knighted Alistair Campbell you would have been apoplectic. I'm afraid even the more rational Tories are embarrassing themselves here.

    It is Blackburn. Cameron did something ergo it must be a bad thing Cameron did.
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    Sean_F said:

    If Labour aren't going to rally around Jeremy Corbyn they need to find something to rally against. In the first part of the last Parliament, Nick Clegg served that function. Who or what might serve the purpose this time round?

    The Queen and the British Army.
    It is the Conservatives who have cut the army by even more than they've cut the navy and RAF.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited December 2015
    Has anyone watched The Affair? S1 reminds me of True Detective. Just about to start S2

    For Showtime, there's less gratuitous sex than usual.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,997

    Mr. 63, Campbell did more than that. He poisoned politics, and his approach towards Dr David Kelly was not exemplary. And then there's the dodgy dossier. It's hard to think of a more malign influence on modern politics (although the cabal of cronies who conspired with McBride et al. are worthy of comparison).

    Campbell's diaries are fascinating. He was exceptionally gifted at showering shit over people who got in the way of New Labour. The treatment of Rose Addis was a classic example.
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    Mr. F, perhaps they are. But if I want to read a diary full of bile, I'll make do with Procopius.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,370
    German update for New Year:

    http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/

    Governing parties and FDP (pro-business liberals) down a bit, Left/Greens/AfD (UKIP) up a bit, overall position pretty stable. The AfD is getting bad coverage at the moment after their advance earlier this year, as racist regional leaders are making the efforts of the leader to become the "respectable right" difficult. But it's not affecting their polling visibly, as their voters presumably aren't bothered by being thought a bit racist (it may be setting a ceiling on who else will vote for them, though).
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,997

    Sean_F said:

    If Labour aren't going to rally around Jeremy Corbyn they need to find something to rally against. In the first part of the last Parliament, Nick Clegg served that function. Who or what might serve the purpose this time round?

    The Queen and the British Army.
    It is the Conservatives who have cut the army by even more than they've cut the navy and RAF.
    The Conservatives have not treated the uniformed services well. But Corbyn would be worse.
  • Options

    Pong said:

    Lol @ Lynton Crosby.

    Must be a contender for the most dishonourable honour ever.

    Quite high risk, too.

    Crosby's understanding of the public has been shown by events to be massively in excess of anything the pollsters managed. For that insight alone, from which others can learn, the honour is deserved. He is a market leader in his field by a mile: in any other industry there'd have been no criticism.

    Besides, far better for the state to reward political service with cheap gongs than with real power or money.
    Mr Herdson you one of my favourite article writers on here but that is utter tosh, knighting somebody for masterminding an election victory is disgraceful, if Blair had knighted Alistair Campbell you would have been apoplectic. I'm afraid even the more rational Tories are embarrassing themselves here.

    There are abundant examples of party strategists getting honours, Spencer Livermore being the most recent but also Philip Gould and Tim Bell. I'm not a fan of the honours system but I struggle to see how this knighthood breaks new ground.
    I didn't say it broke new ground I said it's a disgrace. Crosby is superb at what he's paid to do, he undermined the Labour campaign in a very effective way, that was his job. But honours should be about service to the country not a political party. (Yes, I hear you say, when it's a Tory that's the same thing).

    This award demeans the system and highlights Cameron's continual bad personal judgement.

    I'm not a fan of the honours system full stop and given its longterm abuse I don't see this bringing it deeper into disrepute. One might comment that it's only a knighthood rather than a peerage, which seems previously to have been the norm.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Labour made Gould a lord. I don't understand your point.

    Pong said:

    Lol @ Lynton Crosby.

    Must be a contender for the most dishonourable honour ever.

    Quite high risk, too.

    Crosby's understanding of the public has been shown by events to be massively in excess of anything the pollsters managed. For that insight alone, from which others can learn, the honour is deserved. He is a market leader in his field by a mile: in any other industry there'd have been no criticism.

    Besides, far better for the state to reward political service with cheap gongs than with real power or money.
    Mr Herdson you one of my favourite article writers on here but that is utter tosh, knighting somebody for masterminding an election victory is disgraceful, if Blair had knighted Alistair Campbell you would have been apoplectic. I'm afraid even the more rational Tories are embarrassing themselves here.

    It is Blackburn. Cameron did something ergo it must be a bad thing Cameron did.
    It is TSE, Cameron did something ergo it's fine by me.



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    Funny how all the Tory papers are complaining about the honours list. Obviously they did not get the pb Tories memo that Cameron's cronies are political and humanitarian giants and anyway Labour did it worse with Lord Kagan of Gannex in ... checks wikipedia ... 1976.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited December 2015
    I think Morris_Dancer is spot on. One can admire Campbell as extremely effective, but 'poisoned' is precisely what he did.

    I read his diaries and was simultaneously impressed and revolted . I refuse to read anything written by McBride.
    Sean_F said:

    Mr. 63, Campbell did more than that. He poisoned politics, and his approach towards Dr David Kelly was not exemplary. And then there's the dodgy dossier. It's hard to think of a more malign influence on modern politics (although the cabal of cronies who conspired with McBride et al. are worthy of comparison).

    Campbell's diaries are fascinating. He was exceptionally gifted at showering shit over people who got in the way of New Labour. The treatment of Rose Addis was a classic example.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Sean_F said:

    Mr. 63, Campbell did more than that. He poisoned politics, and his approach towards Dr David Kelly was not exemplary. And then there's the dodgy dossier. It's hard to think of a more malign influence on modern politics (although the cabal of cronies who conspired with McBride et al. are worthy of comparison).

    Campbell's diaries are fascinating. He was exceptionally gifted at showering shit over people who got in the way of New Labour. The treatment of Rose Addis was a classic example.
    Campbell and Crosby are excellent at what they are paid to do, I know little of Crosby other than he is Australian, we all know plenty about the attention seeking Campbell.

    But the point is: what is the Honours system for?

    If it's to reward people for scratching backs and personal gain then I hope the whole tawdry charade is scrapped.

  • Options
    malcolmg said:

    Wanderer said:

    On topic, we need to be careful about not over-reacting. We also need to be careful about trusting the pollsters on one metric while ignoring them on another. Why should they be any more reliable on leader ratings than voting intention? Arguably, you could answer that by saying that one is a current view and the other is to an extent predictive, even if the question is "how would you in an election today", but it's a fine distinction.

    The 1979 example has been trotted out enough times but remains valid. Had we gone with the leader ratings then we'd have predicted a Labour win, or at least, another hung parliament.

    There were a lot of straws in the wind that suggested that the online polling was wrong. There were few straws in the wind that suggested the entire industry was as wrong as it was. In particular, the scale of the key Con-Lab battleground swing was missed.

    I'd suggest that the biggest error in predicting the 2015 result was not so much a failure of overall figures - though that was bad - but a failure to understand the extent to which regional or sectional factors would magnify the national picture.

    Quite , IMHO it was the SNP wot won it for Dave... both in destroying Labour in Scotland , plus frightening voters into voting for Dave (Salmond writing Labour budget )
    SNP gains from Labour had no direct effect on the election result.
    The Salmond's-pocket meme was effective in England though.
    Oh, indeed.
    Easily taken in down there, any old snake oil salesman can fool them
    We rejected Salmond and Sturgeon unlike you lot.
  • Options

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. 63, Campbell did more than that. He poisoned politics, and his approach towards Dr David Kelly was not exemplary. And then there's the dodgy dossier. It's hard to think of a more malign influence on modern politics (although the cabal of cronies who conspired with McBride et al. are worthy of comparison).

    Campbell's diaries are fascinating. He was exceptionally gifted at showering shit over people who got in the way of New Labour. The treatment of Rose Addis was a classic example.
    Campbell and Crosby are excellent at what they are paid to do, I know little of Crosby other than he is Australian, we all know plenty about the attention seeking Campbell.

    But the point is: what is the Honours system for?

    If it's to reward people for scratching backs and personal gain then I hope the whole tawdry charade is scrapped.

    I agree wholeheartedly with the last sentence. It is just a tawdry charade.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Lolz

    So the BBC websites are all down. Never fear, they will just go to the back up system! #BBC #BBCwebsite #BBCdown https://t.co/7HkJIeBysP
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,125

    malcolmg said:

    Wanderer said:

    On topic, we need to be careful about not over-reacting. We also need to be careful about trusting the pollsters on one metric while ignoring them on another. Why should they be any more reliable on leader ratings than voting intention? Arguably, you could answer that by saying that one is a current view and the other is to an extent predictive, even if the question is "how would you in an election today", but it's a fine distinction.

    The 1979 example has been trotted out enough times but remains valid. Had we gone with the leader ratings then we'd have predicted a Labour win, or at least, another hung parliament.

    There were a lot of straws in the wind that suggested that the online polling was wrong. There were few straws in the wind that suggested the entire industry was as wrong as it was. In particular, the scale of the key Con-Lab battleground swing was missed.

    I'd suggest that the biggest error in predicting the 2015 result was not so much a failure of overall figures - though that was bad - but a failure to understand the extent to which regional or sectional factors would magnify the national picture.

    Quite , IMHO it was the SNP wot won it for Dave... both in destroying Labour in Scotland , plus frightening voters into voting for Dave (Salmond writing Labour budget )
    SNP gains from Labour had no direct effect on the election result.
    The Salmond's-pocket meme was effective in England though.
    Oh, indeed.
    Easily taken in down there, any old snake oil salesman can fool them
    We rejected Salmond and Sturgeon unlike you lot.
    You idiot you did not have a vote for them
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    edited December 2015

    Pong said:

    Lol @ Lynton Crosby.

    Must be a contender for the most dishonourable honour ever.

    Quite high risk, too.

    Crosby's understanding of the public has been shown by events to be massively in excess of anything the pollsters managed. For that insight alone, from which others can learn, the honour is deserved. He is a market leader in his field by a mile: in any other industry there'd have been no criticism.

    Besides, far better for the state to reward political service with cheap gongs than with real power or money.
    Mr Herdson you one of my favourite article writers on here but that is utter tosh, knighting somebody for masterminding an election victory is disgraceful, if Blair had knighted Alistair Campbell you would have been apoplectic. I'm afraid even the more rational Tories are embarrassing themselves here.

    It's quite usual.

    I wouldn't see anything out of the way in knighting Campbell either. I think you're projecting with the "apoplectic".

    The honours system itself may need reform or abolition but as things stand this is business as usual for it.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Love it.

    I'm Atticus
    It appears the Tories have cut everything #BBCdown
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    I should like to reassure the site that both my blog and website are up. And that without £3bn of public money ;)

    http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/
    http://thaddeuswhite.weebly.com/
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    The outrage is from people with columns to fill and nothing else happening, and those who wish to knock Cameron.

    And (though outrage may be little strong) Mark Garnier, Con MP.

    'A bad idea'
  • Options
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Wanderer said:

    On topic, we need to be careful about not over-reacting. We also need to be careful about trusting the pollsters on one metric while ignoring them on another. Why should they be any more reliable on leader ratings than voting intention? Arguably, you could answer that by saying that one is a current view and the other is to an extent predictive, even if the question is "how would you in an election today", but it's a fine distinction.

    The 1979 example has been trotted out enough times but remains valid. Had we gone with the leader ratings then we'd have predicted a Labour win, or at least, another hung parliament.

    There were a lot of straws in the wind that suggested that the online polling was wrong. There were few straws in the wind that suggested the entire industry was as wrong as it was. In particular, the scale of the key Con-Lab battleground swing was missed.

    I'd suggest that the biggest error in predicting the 2015 result was not so much a failure of overall figures - though that was bad - but a failure to understand the extent to which regional or sectional factors would magnify the national picture.

    Quite , IMHO it was the SNP wot won it for Dave... both in destroying Labour in Scotland , plus frightening voters into voting for Dave (Salmond writing Labour budget )
    SNP gains from Labour had no direct effect on the election result.
    The Salmond's-pocket meme was effective in England though.
    Oh, indeed.
    Easily taken in down there, any old snake oil salesman can fool them
    We rejected Salmond and Sturgeon unlike you lot.
    You idiot you did not have a vote for them
    And even so we were still clever enough to find a way to reject them.

    Sturgeon banging on about "locking Cameron out of Downing Street" gave us the opportunity.
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    Mr. Divvie, worth also noting that not all Conservatives are predisposed towards Cameron.

    Mr. Quidder, for the SNP and Conservatives, a crushing defeat for Labour/Miliband was ideal.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. 63, Campbell did more than that. He poisoned politics, and his approach towards Dr David Kelly was not exemplary. And then there's the dodgy dossier. It's hard to think of a more malign influence on modern politics (although the cabal of cronies who conspired with McBride et al. are worthy of comparison).

    Campbell's diaries are fascinating. He was exceptionally gifted at showering shit over people who got in the way of New Labour. The treatment of Rose Addis was a classic example.
    Campbell and Crosby are excellent at what they are paid to do, I know little of Crosby other than he is Australian, we all know plenty about the attention seeking Campbell.

    But the point is: what is the Honours system for?

    If it's to reward people for scratching backs and personal gain then I hope the whole tawdry charade is scrapped.

    I agree wholeheartedly with the last sentence. It is just a tawdry charade.
    It is a tawdry charade. I think even its defenders must acknowledge that. It may be a useful tawdry charade and defensible on that basis.
  • Options
    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Wanderer said:

    Pong said:

    Lol @ Lynton Crosby.

    Must be a contender for the most dishonourable honour ever.

    Quite high risk, too.

    Crosby's understanding of the public has been shown by events to be massively in excess of anything the pollsters managed. For that insight alone, from which others can learn, the honour is deserved. He is a market leader in his field by a mile: in any other industry there'd have been no criticism.

    Besides, far better for the state to reward political service with cheap gongs than with real power or money.
    Mr Herdson you one of my favourite article writers on here but that is utter tosh, knighting somebody for masterminding an election victory is disgraceful, if Blair had knighted Alistair Campbell you would have been apoplectic. I'm afraid even the more rational Tories are embarrassing themselves here.

    It's quite usual.

    I wouldn't see anything out of the way in knighting Campbell either. I think you're projecting with the "apoplectic".

    The honours system itself may need reform or abolition but as things stand this is business as usual for it.
    Mr wanderer, it is for precisely the reason you state ie business as usual, that it needs ending. Cameron had an opportunity to silence his critics, once again he gave us an opportunity to point fingers and compare him with previous self serving fools. I'm disappointed that respected commentators such as Mr Herdson are applauding this award.

  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Wanderer said:

    On topic, we need to be careful about not over-reacting. We also need to be careful about trusting the pollsters on one metric while ignoring them on another. Why should they be any more reliable on leader ratings than voting intention? Arguably, you could answer that by saying that one is a current view and the other is to an extent predictive, even if the question is "how would you in an election today", but it's a fine distinction.

    The 1979 example has been trotted out enough times but remains valid. Had we gone with the leader ratings then we'd have predicted a Labour win, or at least, another hung parliament.

    There were a lot of straws in the wind that suggested that the online polling was wrong. There were few straws in the wind that suggested the entire industry was as wrong as it was. In particular, the scale of the key Con-Lab battleground swing was missed.

    I'd suggest that the biggest error in predicting the 2015 result was not so much a failure of overall figures - though that was bad - but a failure to understand the extent to which regional or sectional factors would magnify the national picture.

    Quite , IMHO it was the SNP wot won it for Dave... both in destroying Labour in Scotland , plus frightening voters into voting for Dave (Salmond writing Labour budget )
    SNP gains from Labour had no direct effect on the election result.
    The Salmond's-pocket meme was effective in England though.
    Oh, indeed.
    Easily taken in down there, any old snake oil salesman can fool them
    We rejected Salmond and Sturgeon unlike you lot.
    You idiot you did not have a vote for them
    Voting Conservative in England may be driven, in part, by a desire to keep the SNP out of power in Westminster.
  • Options

    Mr. Divvie, worth also noting that not all Conservatives are predisposed towards Cameron.

    Afaik Garnier isn't a member of that particular club.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited December 2015
    65yrs. Golly. I stopped listening when Nigel fell off the roof. I'm tempted to try again. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/radio/what-to-listen-to/the-archers-65-years-of-love-death-and-dairy-farming/
    In 1948 an enterprising BBC Midlands radio producer, Godfrey Baseley, was inspired by a suggestion that “a farming Dick Barton” was needed to publicise post-war changes in agriculture.

    Dick Barton, Special Agent, was a nightly thriller full of baddies, goodies and sound effects, and was hugely popular. It took Baseley two years to assemble something similar about a traditional Midlands farming family.

    His masterstroke was to get the Dick Barton team, Edward J Mason and Geoffrey Webb, to write it. After five pilot Archers episodes on Midland Region only, The Archers went national on the Light Programme at 11.45am on January 1 1951.
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    Mr. 63, the choice isn't just continue or abolish. The system could refocused so that the military, emergency services, and so forth benefit, rather than gongs being handed out as a matter of course to people who also get good, or excellent, rates of pay and bulletproof pensions.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. 63, Campbell did more than that. He poisoned politics, and his approach towards Dr David Kelly was not exemplary. And then there's the dodgy dossier. It's hard to think of a more malign influence on modern politics (although the cabal of cronies who conspired with McBride et al. are worthy of comparison).

    Campbell's diaries are fascinating. He was exceptionally gifted at showering shit over people who got in the way of New Labour. The treatment of Rose Addis was a classic example.
    Campbell and Crosby are excellent at what they are paid to do, I know little of Crosby other than he is Australian, we all know plenty about the attention seeking Campbell.

    But the point is: what is the Honours system for?

    If it's to reward people for scratching backs and personal gain then I hope the whole tawdry charade is scrapped.

    That's fair enough, because it is about scratching backs and always has been. I'm not opposed to some modest back scratching, in principle, but the system has certainly never been about some objective deserved award.
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    Mr. Divvie, worth also noting that not all Conservatives are predisposed towards Cameron.

    Mr. Quidder, for the SNP and Conservatives, a crushing defeat for Labour/Miliband was ideal.

    The SNP are trying to turn politics in Scotland into permanent identity politics after the fashion of Northern Ireland or Malaysia. I suppose that's all they have left after decisive defeat in the referendum and without the power to call another one.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Wanderer said:

    Pong said:

    Lol @ Lynton Crosby.

    Must be a contender for the most dishonourable honour ever.

    Quite high risk, too.

    Crosby's understanding of the public has been shown by events to be massively in excess of anything the pollsters managed. For that insight alone, from which others can learn, the honour is deserved. He is a market leader in his field by a mile: in any other industry there'd have been no criticism.

    Besides, far better for the state to reward political service with cheap gongs than with real power or money.
    Mr Herdson you one of my favourite article writers on here but that is utter tosh, knighting somebody for masterminding an election victory is disgraceful, if Blair had knighted Alistair Campbell you would have been apoplectic. I'm afraid even the more rational Tories are embarrassing themselves here.

    It's quite usual.

    I wouldn't see anything out of the way in knighting Campbell either. I think you're projecting with the "apoplectic".

    The honours system itself may need reform or abolition but as things stand this is business as usual for it.
    Mr wanderer, it is for precisely the reason you state ie business as usual, that it needs ending. Cameron had an opportunity to silence his critics, once again he gave us an opportunity to point fingers and compare him with previous self serving fools. I'm disappointed that respected commentators such as Mr Herdson are applauding this award.

    Oh, sure, there's a good case for ending the whole system. I wouldn't really expect a Tory Government to do that though.

    And I can't really get worked up about these things. It's more comedy than anything.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002

    Pong said:

    Lol @ Lynton Crosby.

    Must be a contender for the most dishonourable honour ever.

    Quite high risk, too.

    Crosby's understanding of the public has been shown by events to be massively in excess of anything the pollsters managed. For that insight alone, from which others can learn, the honour is deserved. He is a market leader in his field by a mile: in any other industry there'd have been no criticism.

    Besides, far better for the state to reward political service with cheap gongs than with real power or money.
    Mr Herdson you one of my favourite article writers on here but that is utter tosh, knighting somebody for masterminding an election victory is disgraceful, if Blair had knighted Alistair Campbell you would have been apoplectic. I'm afraid even the more rational Tories are embarrassing themselves here.

    There are abundant examples of party strategists getting honours, Spencer Livermore being the most recent but also Philip Gould and Tim Bell. I'm not a fan of the honours system but I struggle to see how this knighthood breaks new ground.
    I didn't say it broke new ground I said it's a disgrace. Crosby is superb at what he's paid to do, he undermined the Labour campaign in a very effective way, that was his job. But honours should be about service to the country not a political party. (Yes, I hear you say, when it's a Tory that's the same thing).

    This award demeans the system and highlights Cameron's continual bad personal judgement.

    I'm not a fan of the honours system full stop and given its longterm abuse I don't see this bringing it deeper into disrepute. One might comment that it's only a knighthood rather than a peerage, which seems previously to have been the norm.
    Seems alot easier to get a knighthood if you're involved with politics rather than any other aspect of life.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    And lifer civil servants who make up the D List. I've met several and can't see any reason for theirs bar buggins quota filling.

    Mr. 63, the choice isn't just continue or abolish. The system could refocused so that the military, emergency services, and so forth benefit, rather than gongs being handed out as a matter of course to people who also get good, or excellent, rates of pay and bulletproof pensions.

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    The most disappointing thing about these honours is JohnO still hasn't got his peerage.

    Utter disgrace from Dave
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Wanderer said:

    Wanderer said:

    Pong said:

    Lol @ Lynton Crosby.

    Must be a contender for the most dishonourable honour ever.

    Quite high risk, too.

    Crosby's understanding of the public has been shown by events to be massively in excess of anything the pollsters managed. For that insight alone, from which others can learn, the honour is deserved. He is a market leader in his field by a mile: in any other industry there'd have been no criticism.

    Besides, far better for the state to reward political service with cheap gongs than with real power or money.
    Mr Herdson you one of my favourite article writers on here but that is utter tosh, knighting somebody for masterminding an election victory is disgraceful, if Blair had knighted Alistair Campbell you would have been apoplectic. I'm afraid even the more rational Tories are embarrassing themselves here.

    It's quite usual.

    I wouldn't see anything out of the way in knighting Campbell either. I think you're projecting with the "apoplectic".

    The honours system itself may need reform or abolition but as things stand this is business as usual for it.
    Mr wanderer, it is for precisely the reason you state ie business as usual, that it needs ending. Cameron had an opportunity to silence his critics, once again he gave us an opportunity to point fingers and compare him with previous self serving fools. I'm disappointed that respected commentators such as Mr Herdson are applauding this award.

    Oh, sure, there's a good case for ending the whole system. I wouldn't really expect a Tory Government to do that though.

    And I can't really get worked up about these things. It's more comedy than anything.
    If Cameron fed the 5000, some would condemn him for putting fishermen and bakers out of work!

    Gongs are a fairly harmless way of rewarding cronies. Far better than making them peers to lord it over us in perpetuity.

    There are even some in the list who deserve it, such as Prof Melanie Davies now CBE, who has come a long way from modest beginnings to become one of the top diabetes researchers in the world, and also an excellent colleague of mine in Leicester.

    http://www2.le.ac.uk/offices/press/press-releases/2015/december/professor-of-diabetes-medicine-awarded-cbe

  • Options
    JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,215

    The most disappointing thing about these honours is JohnO still hasn't got his peerage.

    Utter disgrace from Dave

    Seconded. But I still live in hope.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    Pong said:

    Lol @ Lynton Crosby.

    Must be a contender for the most dishonourable honour ever.

    Quite high risk, too.

    Crosby's understanding of the public has been shown by events to be massively in excess of anything the pollsters managed. For that insight alone, from which others can learn, the honour is deserved. He is a market leader in his field by a mile: in any other industry there'd have been no criticism.

    Besides, far better for the state to reward political service with cheap gongs than with real power or money.
    Mr Herdson you one of my favourite article writers on here but that is utter tosh, knighting somebody for masterminding an election victory is disgraceful, if Blair had knighted Alistair Campbell you would have been apoplectic. I'm afraid even the more rational Tories are embarrassing themselves here.

    There are abundant examples of party strategists getting honours, Spencer Livermore being the most recent but also Philip Gould and Tim Bell. I'm not a fan of the honours system but I struggle to see how this knighthood breaks new ground.
    I didn't say it broke new ground I said it's a disgrace. Crosby is superb at what he's paid to do, he undermined the Labour campaign in a very effective way, that was his job. But honours should be about service to the country not a political party. (Yes, I hear you say, when it's a Tory that's the same thing).

    This award demeans the system and highlights Cameron's continual bad personal judgement.

    !0+ years a PM -UKIP and the rest could do with some of his bad judgement. Too much vinegar on your cornflakes...again. :)
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    edited December 2015

    Wanderer said:

    Wanderer said:

    Pong said:

    Lol @ Lynton Crosby.

    Must be a contender for the most dishonourable honour ever.

    Quite high risk, too.

    Crosby's understanding of the public has been shown by events to be massively in excess of anything the pollsters managed. For that insight alone, from which others can learn, the honour is deserved. He is a market leader in his field by a mile: in any other industry there'd have been no criticism.

    Besides, far better for the state to reward political service with cheap gongs than with real power or money.
    Mr Herdson you one of my favourite article writers on here but that is utter tosh, knighting somebody for masterminding an election victory is disgraceful, if Blair had knighted Alistair Campbell you would have been apoplectic. I'm afraid even the more rational Tories are embarrassing themselves here.

    It's quite usual.

    I wouldn't see anything out of the way in knighting Campbell either. I think you're projecting with the "apoplectic".

    The honours system itself may need reform or abolition but as things stand this is business as usual for it.
    Mr wanderer, it is for precisely the reason you state ie business as usual, that it needs ending. Cameron had an opportunity to silence his critics, once again he gave us an opportunity to point fingers and compare him with previous self serving fools. I'm disappointed that respected commentators such as Mr Herdson are applauding this award.

    Oh, sure, there's a good case for ending the whole system. I wouldn't really expect a Tory Government to do that though.

    And I can't really get worked up about these things. It's more comedy than anything.
    If Cameron fed the 5000, some would condemn him for putting fishermen and bakers out of work!

    Gongs are a fairly harmless way of rewarding cronies. Far better than making them peers to lord it over us in perpetuity.

    There are even some in the list who deserve it, such as Prof Melanie Davies now CBE, who has come a long way from modest beginnings to become one of the top diabetes researchers in the world, and also an excellent colleague of mine in Leicester.

    http://www2.le.ac.uk/offices/press/press-releases/2015/december/professor-of-diabetes-medicine-awarded-cbe

    I'm 50 and I can't remember a time when there hasn't been frothing over the honours list. I remember my parents, when I was a child, laughing about this
    http://ebid.s3.amazonaws.com/upload_medbig/9/9/3/1346627447-3351-30.jpg
  • Options
    And we ought not forget Ave It, whose predictions of Boris' mayoralty were made when most of us thought it a jest, and whose confidence in a Conservative victory was second to none.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Now, that's one helluva cheap date http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/woman-escapes-drink-driving-conviction-by-proving-that-her-body-is-a-brewery-a3146351.html
    However, the woman was charged with driving while intoxicated when a breath test showed her blood-alcohol content to be 0.33 per cent.

    The legal limit in New York is just 0.08.

    The arrest led the woman to discover she has a rare condition called “auto-brewery syndrome”, where her digestive system converts ordinary food into alcohol.
  • Options
    JohnLoonyJohnLoony Posts: 1,790
    Rejoice! I have acquired my 500th follower on Twitter! None other than Dustin Lance Black! Hooray!
  • Options
    Mr. Loony, shade greedy of you. Jesus only needed 12.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Now, that's one helluva cheap date http://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/woman-escapes-drink-driving-conviction-by-proving-that-her-body-is-a-brewery-a3146351.html

    However, the woman was charged with driving while intoxicated when a breath test showed her blood-alcohol content to be 0.33 per cent.

    The legal limit in New York is just 0.08.

    The arrest led the woman to discover she has a rare condition called “auto-brewery syndrome”, where her digestive system converts ordinary food into alcohol.
    Thing is, you would think that condition would permanently disqualify you from driving anyway.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    For New Year humbugs

    Letters of Note
    From a letter written in 1863, Mark Twain on New Year's resolutions: https://t.co/sjWLFDPDCz
  • Options

    The most disappointing thing about these honours is JohnO still hasn't got his peerage.

    Utter disgrace from Dave

    Peerages are *so* 18th century :lol:
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    Off-topic:

    Happy days for Pension-Lawyers from Six-fingered-shire? May BOO is a good bet...?
  • Options
    Dr. Prasannan, I agree. They're clearly for n00bs.

    Real men, like Aurelian, get proclaimed Restorer of the World.
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    EPGEPG Posts: 6,048

    I think Morris_Dancer is spot on. One can admire Campbell as extremely effective, but 'poisoned' is precisely what he did.

    I read his diaries and was simultaneously impressed and revolted . I refuse to read anything written by McBride.

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. 63, Campbell did more than that. He poisoned politics, and his approach towards Dr David Kelly was not exemplary. And then there's the dodgy dossier. It's hard to think of a more malign influence on modern politics (although the cabal of cronies who conspired with McBride et al. are worthy of comparison).

    Campbell's diaries are fascinating. He was exceptionally gifted at showering shit over people who got in the way of New Labour. The treatment of Rose Addis was a classic example.
    Another important PB contribution to political analysis
    Alastair Campbell = poisoned British public life
    Michael Fallon = did the job he had to do by smearing Miliband and did it well
  • Options
    Mr. EPG, you consider Campbell's general poisoning of politics over years, his behaviour regarding Dr. David Kelly, and his behaviour around the dodgy dossier to be comparable to Fallon's admittedly brusque but also essentially accurate one line accusation about Ed Miliband's conduct?

    If so, thou art a drunken monkey.
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    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Dearie me. The last desperate refuge, exhume Thatcher. Is there a Godwin Law for her yet!?

    Labourlist.org
    Thatcher’s rotten government was only interested in discord and division says @KevinPMeagher https://t.co/tZYSgXdQSk
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    EPG said:

    I think Morris_Dancer is spot on. One can admire Campbell as extremely effective, but 'poisoned' is precisely what he did.

    I read his diaries and was simultaneously impressed and revolted . I refuse to read anything written by McBride.

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. 63, Campbell did more than that. He poisoned politics, and his approach towards Dr David Kelly was not exemplary. And then there's the dodgy dossier. It's hard to think of a more malign influence on modern politics (although the cabal of cronies who conspired with McBride et al. are worthy of comparison).

    Campbell's diaries are fascinating. He was exceptionally gifted at showering shit over people who got in the way of New Labour. The treatment of Rose Addis was a classic example.
    Another important PB contribution to political analysis
    Alastair Campbell = poisoned British public life
    Michael Fallon = did the job he had to do by smearing Miliband and did it well
    Coulson = Criminal, but did his job well !
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    EPG said:

    I think Morris_Dancer is spot on. One can admire Campbell as extremely effective, but 'poisoned' is precisely what he did.

    I read his diaries and was simultaneously impressed and revolted . I refuse to read anything written by McBride.

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. 63, Campbell did more than that. He poisoned politics, and his approach towards Dr David Kelly was not exemplary. And then there's the dodgy dossier. It's hard to think of a more malign influence on modern politics (although the cabal of cronies who conspired with McBride et al. are worthy of comparison).

    Campbell's diaries are fascinating. He was exceptionally gifted at showering shit over people who got in the way of New Labour. The treatment of Rose Addis was a classic example.
    Another important PB contribution to political analysis
    Alastair Campbell = poisoned British public life
    Michael Fallon = did the job he had to do by smearing Miliband and did it well
    I don't see that there was anything "poisonous" about Campbell either. He was a bruiser but politics is a contact sport.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited December 2015
    He's miffed that he's not Lord BongoBongo of Blackburn.
    felix said:

    Pong said:

    Lol @ Lynton Crosby.

    Must be a contender for the most dishonourable honour ever.

    Quite high risk, too.

    Crosby's understanding of the public has been shown by events to be massively in excess of anything the pollsters managed. For that insight alone, from which others can learn, the honour is deserved. He is a market leader in his field by a mile: in any other industry there'd have been no criticism.

    Besides, far better for the state to reward political service with cheap gongs than with real power or money.
    Mr Herdson you one of my favourite article writers on here but that is utter tosh, knighting somebody for masterminding an election victory is disgraceful, if Blair had knighted Alistair Campbell you would have been apoplectic. I'm afraid even the more rational Tories are embarrassing themselves here.

    There are abundant examples of party strategists getting honours, Spencer Livermore being the most recent but also Philip Gould and Tim Bell. I'm not a fan of the honours system but I struggle to see how this knighthood breaks new ground.
    I didn't say it broke new ground I said it's a disgrace. Crosby is superb at what he's paid to do, he undermined the Labour campaign in a very effective way, that was his job. But honours should be about service to the country not a political party. (Yes, I hear you say, when it's a Tory that's the same thing).

    This award demeans the system and highlights Cameron's continual bad personal judgement.

    !0+ years a PM -UKIP and the rest could do with some of his bad judgement. Too much vinegar on your cornflakes...again. :)
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,061
    EPG said:

    I think Morris_Dancer is spot on. One can admire Campbell as extremely effective, but 'poisoned' is precisely what he did.

    I read his diaries and was simultaneously impressed and revolted . I refuse to read anything written by McBride.

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. 63, Campbell did more than that. He poisoned politics, and his approach towards Dr David Kelly was not exemplary. And then there's the dodgy dossier. It's hard to think of a more malign influence on modern politics (although the cabal of cronies who conspired with McBride et al. are worthy of comparison).

    Campbell's diaries are fascinating. He was exceptionally gifted at showering shit over people who got in the way of New Labour. The treatment of Rose Addis was a classic example.
    Another important PB contribution to political analysis
    Alastair Campbell = poisoned British public life
    Michael Fallon = did the job he had to do by smearing Miliband and did it well
    I suppose one could make a distinction between the occasional smear and coordinated campaigns and instinctive ordinary behaviours, but personally I thought Fallon's remarks unnecessary to his cause even if some think it might have helped them. I think the Tories didn't need to go down that route with Ed, it made me think better of Ed.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    surbiton said:

    EPG said:

    I think Morris_Dancer is spot on. One can admire Campbell as extremely effective, but 'poisoned' is precisely what he did.

    I read his diaries and was simultaneously impressed and revolted . I refuse to read anything written by McBride.

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. 63, Campbell did more than that. He poisoned politics, and his approach towards Dr David Kelly was not exemplary. And then there's the dodgy dossier. It's hard to think of a more malign influence on modern politics (although the cabal of cronies who conspired with McBride et al. are worthy of comparison).

    Campbell's diaries are fascinating. He was exceptionally gifted at showering shit over people who got in the way of New Labour. The treatment of Rose Addis was a classic example.
    Another important PB contribution to political analysis
    Alastair Campbell = poisoned British public life
    Michael Fallon = did the job he had to do by smearing Miliband and did it well
    Coulson = Criminal, but did his job well !
    I won't argue with the conviction as the law is the law but in the light of the subsequent events one suspects he was the 'fall guy'. In all other respects a much nicer person than Campbell who even manages to give mental health a bad name.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    surbiton said:

    EPG said:

    I think Morris_Dancer is spot on. One can admire Campbell as extremely effective, but 'poisoned' is precisely what he did.

    I read his diaries and was simultaneously impressed and revolted . I refuse to read anything written by McBride.

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. 63, Campbell did more than that. He poisoned politics, and his approach towards Dr David Kelly was not exemplary. And then there's the dodgy dossier. It's hard to think of a more malign influence on modern politics (although the cabal of cronies who conspired with McBride et al. are worthy of comparison).

    Campbell's diaries are fascinating. He was exceptionally gifted at showering shit over people who got in the way of New Labour. The treatment of Rose Addis was a classic example.
    Another important PB contribution to political analysis
    Alastair Campbell = poisoned British public life
    Michael Fallon = did the job he had to do by smearing Miliband and did it well
    Coulson = Criminal, but did his job well !
    Actually Coulson didn’t, did he?
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    And lifer civil servants who make up the D List. I've met several and can't see any reason for theirs bar buggins quota filling.

    Mr. 63, the choice isn't just continue or abolish. The system could refocused so that the military, emergency services, and so forth benefit, rather than gongs being handed out as a matter of course to people who also get good, or excellent, rates of pay and bulletproof pensions.

    Particularly, the HMRC people who had dinners with big knobs and they got a bargain as discussed at the select committee .
  • Options
    Comparing Campbell to Fallon is like comparing Flavius Phocas to John Tzimisces.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Wanderer said:

    surbiton said:

    EPG said:

    I think Morris_Dancer is spot on. One can admire Campbell as extremely effective, but 'poisoned' is precisely what he did.

    I read his diaries and was simultaneously impressed and revolted . I refuse to read anything written by McBride.

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. 63, Campbell did more than that. He poisoned politics, and his approach towards Dr David Kelly was not exemplary. And then there's the dodgy dossier. It's hard to think of a more malign influence on modern politics (although the cabal of cronies who conspired with McBride et al. are worthy of comparison).

    Campbell's diaries are fascinating. He was exceptionally gifted at showering shit over people who got in the way of New Labour. The treatment of Rose Addis was a classic example.
    Another important PB contribution to political analysis
    Alastair Campbell = poisoned British public life
    Michael Fallon = did the job he had to do by smearing Miliband and did it well
    Coulson = Criminal, but did his job well !
    Actually Coulson didn’t, did he?
    The Tories think he did his job well.

  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Off topic I can't get to the BBC News webpage. It is giving an "Error 500" error code with an image of a clown against a black chalkboard with 500 written on it and fire behind it. But I've been having problems with my internet so don't know if its my side or the BBC's - is anyone else having problem connecting currently?

    The BBC news page does seem to be having problems.
    Yep, it's down. Whoops, at least one IT guy is going to have a long day...
    500 is bad gateway, I think.

    That means their load balancer has probably fallen over. I'd guess they're using nginx.

    And in about 2 minutes it will have been restarted...
    No, 500 is internal server error. Bad gateway is 502.

    500 normally means some kind of fatal coding error in the site. The most likely cause is that they have rolled out an update to the site which is not working in live. Interestingly I can follow Google links to news pages other than the news home page. Similarly I can't get to the overall home page for the site but iPlayer is still there.

    And, as I was typing this, the BBC has come back online.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    He's miffed that he's not Lord BongoBongo of Blackburn.

    felix said:

    Pong said:

    Lol @ Lynton Crosby.

    Must be a contender for the most dishonourable honour ever.

    Quite high risk, too.

    Crosby's understanding of the public has been shown by events to be massively in excess of anything the pollsters managed. For that insight alone, from which others can learn, the honour is deserved. He is a market leader in his field by a mile: in any other industry there'd have been no criticism.

    Besides, far better for the state to reward political service with cheap gongs than with real power or money.
    Mr Herdson you one of my favourite article writers on here but that is utter tosh, knighting somebody for masterminding an election victory is disgraceful, if Blair had knighted Alistair Campbell you would have been apoplectic. I'm afraid even the more rational Tories are embarrassing themselves here.

    There are abundant examples of party strategists getting honours, Spencer Livermore being the most recent but also Philip Gould and Tim Bell. I'm not a fan of the honours system but I struggle to see how this knighthood breaks new ground.
    I didn't say it broke new ground I said it's a disgrace. Crosby is superb at what he's paid to do, he undermined the Labour campaign in a very effective way, that was his job. But honours should be about service to the country not a political party. (Yes, I hear you say, when it's a Tory that's the same thing).

    This award demeans the system and highlights Cameron's continual bad personal judgement.

    !0+ years a PM -UKIP and the rest could do with some of his bad judgement. Too much vinegar on your cornflakes...again. :)
    He is just so obsessed with Cameron - there's gotta be a deep underlying attraction there :)
  • Options
    EPGEPG Posts: 6,048

    Mr. EPG, you consider Campbell's general poisoning of politics over years, his behaviour regarding Dr. David Kelly, and his behaviour around the dodgy dossier to be comparable to Fallon's admittedly brusque but also essentially accurate one line accusation about Ed Miliband's conduct?

    If so, thou art a drunken monkey.

    Of course they are comparable. They may not be of the same magnitude, but surely I don't have to make a pedantic distinction here of all places
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,074
    edited December 2015
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Any PBers going to CES next week?

    No, I was on our list of attendees but thankfully I managed to weasel my way out of it. Had enough conventions both as an exhibitor and in attendance. I'm surprised you're going though? They are long and hateful events.
    TBH, it's easier than trekking around China visiting all the up and coming mobile phone companies on a "one per city per day" basis. This way I see them all in the course of 48 hours. I also get to meet some quite exciting new start-ups. And I'm seeing a bunch of VR guys while I'm there (HTC, etc.)

    I'm also going on from their to a telecoms conference in Utah. (Where I might manage an afternoon skiing...)
    Fair enough. Though I'm not convinced of the value in knowing all of the Chinese brands given they all clone each other's devices and most will never leave China. Those that do will end up in shanzai shops in Malaysia and Indonesia.

    Vive is really good, Oculus needs a lot of work and PS VR is probably the best so far and also releasing soonest. I've used VR extensively (well PS VR) and I'm still not convinced on mass market appeal, media is a shared experience for the majority of people, I don't know how VR fits into that, a few million gamers and forever alone basement dwellers is not something I would be confident building a billion dollar industry on. Its also a shame that the porn expo isn't there until next month, I'm sure there are a lot of, err, interesting uses for VR and porn...
    Re Phones: I want to know whether they are buying their chipsets from Mediatek or someone else; whether Intel is being aggressive in baseband; what negotiations for flash are looking like; negotiations with carriers etc. Basically, I'm trying to get a handle on the entire mobile phone supply chain, and where there are shortages/excess supply.

    And I think I completely agree with you re VR.

    I have an Oculus DK2, and while it's very cool (and Elite is fabulous on it), I'm not sure that it's mass market.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    felix said:

    surbiton said:

    EPG said:

    I think Morris_Dancer is spot on. One can admire Campbell as extremely effective, but 'poisoned' is precisely what he did.

    I read his diaries and was simultaneously impressed and revolted . I refuse to read anything written by McBride.

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. 63, Campbell did more than that. He poisoned politics, and his approach towards Dr David Kelly was not exemplary. And then there's the dodgy dossier. It's hard to think of a more malign influence on modern politics (although the cabal of cronies who conspired with McBride et al. are worthy of comparison).

    Campbell's diaries are fascinating. He was exceptionally gifted at showering shit over people who got in the way of New Labour. The treatment of Rose Addis was a classic example.
    Another important PB contribution to political analysis
    Alastair Campbell = poisoned British public life
    Michael Fallon = did the job he had to do by smearing Miliband and did it well
    Coulson = Criminal, but did his job well !
    I won't argue with the conviction as the law is the law but in the light of the subsequent events one suspects he was the 'fall guy'. In all other respects a much nicer person than Campbell who even manages to give mental health a bad name.
    What a pathetic slur. Shame on you ! Whether he was a fall guy or not, the others who were smarter were Tory supporters too. Coulson is a CRIMINAL and that is why he went to prison.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,231
    I saw this from @Charles (FPT):-

    "I've just caught up on Mr Meek's admirable mea culpa and noted there was some discussion of Norman Fowler.

    My Mum is close friends with Fiona Fowler... Let's just say that Norman was gently teasing his civil servants... "

    Quite apart from my mind boggling at what your Mum talks about with her close friends, you have just ruined a good story.

    Still, I suppose it was hard to swallow.

  • Options
    Ave_itAve_it Posts: 2,411
    Morris dancer yes Ave It for supreme leader!

    Happy new year to all even supporters of small regional Scottish parties!
  • Options

    Wanderer said:

    Wanderer said:

    Pong said:

    Lol @ Lynton Crosby.

    Must be a contender for the most dishonourable honour ever.

    Quite high risk, too.

    Crosby's understanding of the public has been shown by events to be massively in excess of anything the pollsters managed. For that insight alone, from which others can learn, the honour is deserved. He is a market leader in his field by a mile: in any other industry there'd have been no criticism.

    Besides, far better for the state to reward political service with cheap gongs than with real power or money.
    Mr Herdson you one of my favourite article writers on here but that is utter tosh, knighting somebody for masterminding an election victory is disgraceful, if Blair had knighted Alistair Campbell you would have been apoplectic. I'm afraid even the more rational Tories are embarrassing themselves here.

    It's quite usual.

    I wouldn't see anything out of the way in knighting Campbell either. I think you're projecting with the "apoplectic".

    The honours system itself may need reform or abolition but as things stand this is business as usual for it.
    Mr wanderer, it is for precisely the reason you state ie business as usual, that it needs ending. Cameron had an opportunity to silence his critics, once again he gave us an opportunity to point fingers and compare him with previous self serving fools. I'm disappointed that respected commentators such as Mr Herdson are applauding this award.

    Oh, sure, there's a good case for ending the whole system. I wouldn't really expect a Tory Government to do that though.

    And I can't really get worked up about these things. It's more comedy than anything.
    Gongs are a fairly harmless way of rewarding cronies. Far better than making them peers to lord it over us in perpetuity.
    Spencer Livermore loses an election and gets a Peersage

    Lynton Crosby wins an election and gets a Knighthood.....
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Maybe he wants Cameron to clean behind his fridge. :wink:
    felix said:

    He's miffed that he's not Lord BongoBongo of Blackburn.

    felix said:

    Pong said:

    Lol @ Lynton Crosby.

    Must be a contender for the most dishonourable honour ever.

    Quite high risk, too.

    Crosby's understanding of the public has been shown by events to be massively in excess of anything the pollsters managed. For that insight alone, from which others can learn, the honour is deserved. He is a market leader in his field by a mile: in any other industry there'd have been no criticism.

    Besides, far better for the state to reward political service with cheap gongs than with real power or money.
    Mr Herdson you one of my favourite article writers on here but that is utter tosh, knighting somebody for masterminding an election victory is disgraceful, if Blair had knighted Alistair Campbell you would have been apoplectic. I'm afraid even the more rational Tories are embarrassing themselves here.

    There are abundant examples of party strategists getting honours, Spencer Livermore being the most recent but also Philip Gould and Tim Bell. I'm not a fan of the honours system but I struggle to see how this knighthood breaks new ground.
    I didn't say it broke new ground I said it's a disgrace. Crosby is superb at what he's paid to do, he undermined the Labour campaign in a very effective way, that was his job. But honours should be about service to the country not a political party. (Yes, I hear you say, when it's a Tory that's the same thing).

    This award demeans the system and highlights Cameron's continual bad personal judgement.

    !0+ years a PM -UKIP and the rest could do with some of his bad judgement. Too much vinegar on your cornflakes...again. :)
    He is just so obsessed with Cameron - there's gotta be a deep underlying attraction there :)
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited December 2015

    Wanderer said:

    Pong said:

    Lol @ Lynton Crosby.

    Must be a contender for the most dishonourable honour ever.

    Quite high risk, too.

    Crosby's understanding of the public has been shown by events to be massively in excess of anything the pollsters managed. For that insight alone, from which others can learn, the honour is deserved. He is a market leader in his field by a mile: in any other industry there'd have been no criticism.

    Besides, far better for the state to reward political service with cheap gongs than with real power or money.
    Mr Herdson you one of my favourite article writers on here but that is utter tosh, knighting somebody for masterminding an election victory is disgraceful, if Blair had knighted Alistair Campbell you would have been apoplectic. I'm afraid even the more rational Tories are embarrassing themselves here.

    It's quite usual.

    I wouldn't see anything out of the way in knighting Campbell either. I think you're projecting with the "apoplectic".

    The honours system itself may need reform or abolition but as things stand this is business as usual for it.
    Mr wanderer, it is for precisely the reason you state ie business as usual, that it needs ending. Cameron had an opportunity to silence his critics, once again he gave us an opportunity to point fingers and compare him with previous self serving fools. I'm disappointed that respected commentators such as Mr Herdson are applauding this award.

    Mr Herdson is also a Tory. To them, the Conservative Party and Britain is the same thing.

    Going back to Alastair Campbell. He was Blair Media Chief, a government paid job and not just for elections.

    Crosby's role was only to elect a Tory government, which he failed badly in Canada.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Ave_it said:

    Morris dancer yes Ave It for supreme leader!

    Happy new year to all even supporters of small regional Scottish parties!

    Happy New Year , Ave it. Watford not doing badly even though we managed to beat you with our handicap [ manager ]
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Cyclefree said:

    I saw this from @Charles (FPT):-

    "I've just caught up on Mr Meek's admirable mea culpa and noted there was some discussion of Norman Fowler.

    My Mum is close friends with Fiona Fowler... Let's just say that Norman was gently teasing his civil servants... "

    Quite apart from my mind boggling at what your Mum talks about with her close friends, you have just ruined a good story.

    Still, I suppose it was hard to swallow.

    -------------

    So far we have got the following: Norman Fowler did not know what oral sex was, but his wife did !
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited December 2015
    SeanT said:

    On another note, I have been advised by one of my nubile Thai servants that tyson accused me of being a "narcissistic prick" for debating the virtues of Eva Air Biz Class.

    I plead Guilty.

    Prior to sentencing, and in mitigation, I only wonder if this is the same tyson who told us he was a helpless millionaire, bored of horribly white north Oxford, which was why he was moving to his second home in Tuscany?

    Nothing wrong with the poor man's business class. It has seats like any other plane. I have to admit I haven't flown Eva. My flights to Taiwan has always been with Dragon, an excellent airline.

    Tyson is a good chap. I don't think he votes Tory but like many he is not too fond of Corbyn.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    surbiton said:

    felix said:

    surbiton said:

    EPG said:

    I think Morris_Dancer is spot on. One can admire Campbell as extremely effective, but 'poisoned' is precisely what he did.

    I read his diaries and was simultaneously impressed and revolted . I refuse to read anything written by McBride.

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. 63, Campbell did more than that. He poisoned politics, and his approach towards Dr David Kelly was not exemplary. And then there's the dodgy dossier. It's hard to think of a more malign influence on modern politics (although the cabal of cronies who conspired with McBride et al. are worthy of comparison).

    Campbell's diaries are fascinating. He was exceptionally gifted at showering shit over people who got in the way of New Labour. The treatment of Rose Addis was a classic example.
    Another important PB contribution to political analysis
    Alastair Campbell = poisoned British public life
    Michael Fallon = did the job he had to do by smearing Miliband and did it well
    Coulson = Criminal, but did his job well !
    I won't argue with the conviction as the law is the law but in the light of the subsequent events one suspects he was the 'fall guy'. In all other respects a much nicer person than Campbell who even manages to give mental health a bad name.
    What a pathetic slur. Shame on you ! Whether he was a fall guy or not, the others who were smarter were Tory supporters too. Coulson is a CRIMINAL and that is why he went to prison.
    Rofl. I didn't deny the last bit - and the slur was spot on as shown by your reaction. BTW since when were all the Mirror journalists Tories ?
  • Options
    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300
    edited December 2015
    Edit: deleted
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    surbiton said:

    Wanderer said:

    Pong said:

    Lol @ Lynton Crosby.

    Must be a contender for the most dishonourable honour ever.

    Quite high risk, too.

    Crosby's understanding of the public has been shown by events to be massively in excess of anything the pollsters managed. For that insight alone, from which others can learn, the honour is deserved. He is a market leader in his field by a mile: in any other industry there'd have been no criticism.

    Besides, far better for the state to reward political service with cheap gongs than with real power or money.
    Mr Herdson you one of my favourite article writers on here but that is utter tosh, knighting somebody for masterminding an election victory is disgraceful, if Blair had knighted Alistair Campbell you would have been apoplectic. I'm afraid even the more rational Tories are embarrassing themselves here.

    It's quite usual.

    I wouldn't see anything out of the way in knighting Campbell either. I think you're projecting with the "apoplectic".

    The honours system itself may need reform or abolition but as things stand this is business as usual for it.
    Mr wanderer, it is for precisely the reason you state ie business as usual, that it needs ending. Cameron had an opportunity to silence his critics, once again he gave us an opportunity to point fingers and compare him with previous self serving fools. I'm disappointed that respected commentators such as Mr Herdson are applauding this award.

    Mr Herdson is also a Tory. To them, the Conservative Party and Britain is the same thing.

    Going back to Alastair Campbell. He was Blair Media Chief, a government paid job and not just for elections.

    Crosby's role was only to elect a Tory government, which he failed badly in Canada.
    Hurrah - when you moving to Canada?
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    felix said:

    surbiton said:

    felix said:

    surbiton said:

    EPG said:

    I think Morris_Dancer is spot on. One can admire Campbell as extremely effective, but 'poisoned' is precisely what he did.

    I read his diaries and was simultaneously impressed and revolted . I refuse to read anything written by McBride.

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. 63, Campbell did more than that. He poisoned politics, and his approach towards Dr David Kelly was not exemplary. And then there's the dodgy dossier. It's hard to think of a more malign influence on modern politics (although the cabal of cronies who conspired with McBride et al. are worthy of comparison).

    Campbell's diaries are fascinating. He was exceptionally gifted at showering shit over people who got in the way of New Labour. The treatment of Rose Addis was a classic example.
    Another important PB contribution to political analysis
    Alastair Campbell = poisoned British public life
    Michael Fallon = did the job he had to do by smearing Miliband and did it well
    Coulson = Criminal, but did his job well !
    I won't argue with the conviction as the law is the law but in the light of the subsequent events one suspects he was the 'fall guy'. In all other respects a much nicer person than Campbell who even manages to give mental health a bad name.
    What a pathetic slur. Shame on you ! Whether he was a fall guy or not, the others who were smarter were Tory supporters too. Coulson is a CRIMINAL and that is why he went to prison.
    Rofl. I didn't deny the last bit - and the slur was spot on as shown by your reaction. BTW since when were all the Mirror journalists Tories ?
    Have they been convicted ?
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    surbiton said:

    felix said:

    surbiton said:

    felix said:

    surbiton said:

    EPG said:

    I think Morris_Dancer is spot on. One can admire Campbell as extremely effective, but 'poisoned' is precisely what he did.

    I read his diaries and was simultaneously impressed and revolted . I refuse to read anything written by McBride.

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. 63, Campbell did more than that. He poisoned politics, and his approach towards Dr David Kelly was not exemplary. And then there's the dodgy dossier. It's hard to think of a more malign influence on modern politics (although the cabal of cronies who conspired with McBride et al. are worthy of comparison).

    Campbell's diaries are fascinating. He was exceptionally gifted at showering shit over people who got in the way of New Labour. The treatment of Rose Addis was a classic example.
    Another important PB contribution to political analysis
    Alastair Campbell = poisoned British public life
    Michael Fallon = did the job he had to do by smearing Miliband and did it well
    Coulson = Criminal, but did his job well !
    I won't argue with the conviction as the law is the law but in the light of the subsequent events one suspects he was the 'fall guy'. In all other respects a much nicer person than Campbell who even manages to give mental health a bad name.
    What a pathetic slur. Shame on you ! Whether he was a fall guy or not, the others who were smarter were Tory supporters too. Coulson is a CRIMINAL and that is why he went to prison.
    Rofl. I didn't deny the last bit - and the slur was spot on as shown by your reaction. BTW since when were all the Mirror journalists Tories ?
    Have they been convicted ?
    Try reading your own post carefully and slowly. then you might just get it - oh wait who am I kidding.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    surbiton said:

    So far we have got the following: Norman Fowler did not know what oral sex was, but his wife did !

    Perhaps she saw it as unnecessary in marriage. I know a couple of men who complain - lament, I should say - that their wives take that view.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited December 2015
    Maguire called Crosby The Lizard of Oz earlier today.

    I'm embarrassed for him. He sounds 12yrs old.
    felix said:

    surbiton said:

    felix said:

    surbiton said:

    EPG said:

    I think Morris_Dancer is spot on. One can admire Campbell as extremely effective, but 'poisoned' is precisely what he did.

    I read his diaries and was simultaneously impressed and revolted . I refuse to read anything written by McBride.

    Sean_F said:

    Mr. 63, Campbell did more than that. He poisoned politics, and his approach towards Dr David Kelly was not exemplary. And then there's the dodgy dossier. It's hard to think of a more malign influence on modern politics (although the cabal of cronies who conspired with McBride et al. are worthy of comparison).

    Campbell's diaries are fascinating. He was exceptionally gifted at showering shit over people who got in the way of New Labour. The treatment of Rose Addis was a classic example.
    Another important PB contribution to political analysis
    Alastair Campbell = poisoned British public life
    Michael Fallon = did the job he had to do by smearing Miliband and did it well
    Coulson = Criminal, but did his job well !
    I won't argue with the conviction as the law is the law but in the light of the subsequent events one suspects he was the 'fall guy'. In all other respects a much nicer person than Campbell who even manages to give mental health a bad name.
    What a pathetic slur. Shame on you ! Whether he was a fall guy or not, the others who were smarter were Tory supporters too. Coulson is a CRIMINAL and that is why he went to prison.
    Rofl. I didn't deny the last bit - and the slur was spot on as shown by your reaction. BTW since when were all the Mirror journalists Tories ?
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Any PBers going to CES next week?

    No, I was on our list of attendees but thankfully I managed to weasel my way out of it. Had enough conventions both as an exhibitor and in attendance. I'm surprised you're going though? They are long and hateful events.
    TBH, it's easier than trekking around China visiting all the up and coming mobile phone companies on a "one per city per day" basis. This way I see them all in the course of 48 hours. I also get to meet some quite exciting new start-ups. And I'm seeing a bunch of VR guys while I'm there (HTC, etc.)

    I'm also going on from their to a telecoms conference in Utah. (Where I might manage an afternoon skiing...)
    Fair enough. Though I'm not convinced of the value in knowing all of the Chinese brands given they all clone each other's devices and most will never leave China. Those that do will end up in shanzai shops in Malaysia and Indonesia.

    Vive is really good, Oculus needs a lot of work and PS VR is probably the best so far and also releasing soonest. I've used VR extensively (well PS VR) and I'm still not convinced on mass market appeal, media is a shared experience for the majority of people, I don't know how VR fits into that, a few million gamers and forever alone basement dwellers is not something I would be confident building a billion dollar industry on. Its also a shame that the porn expo isn't there until next month, I'm sure there are a lot of, err, interesting uses for VR and porn...
    Re Phones: I want to know whether they are buying their chipsets from Mediatek or someone else; whether Intel is being aggressive in baseband; what negotiations for flash are looking like; negotiations with carriers etc. Basically, I'm trying to get a handle on the entire mobile phone supply chain, and where there are shortages/excess supply.

    And I think I completely agree with you re VR.

    I have an Oculus DK2, and while it's very cool (and Elite is fabulous on it), I'm not sure that it's mass market.
    Hate to give out free advice, but re supply shortages surely better to look at foundry side supply shortages for processors/SoCs. The 14nm process at Samsung and GF are both heavily supply limited and TSMC's 16nm output is a joke, though the latter seems to be better engineered than the former two so demand is higher. Also, Samsung's 14nm is not like Intel 14nm, only the gates are really 14nm for Samsung (which is why their 14nm chips consume more power than TSMC's 16nm chips).

    As for Flash and RAM, we subscribe to Trend Force (I think that's the name) which gives a decent overview of spot prices and futures for RAM and flash.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,074
    SeanT said:

    On another note, I have been advised by one of my nubile Thai servants that tyson accused me of being a "narcissistic prick" for debating the virtues of Eva Air Biz Class.

    I plead Guilty.

    Prior to sentencing, and in mitigation, I only wonder if this is the same tyson who told us he was a helpless millionaire, bored of horribly white north Oxford, which was why he was moving to his second home in Tuscany?

    Wait. You fly commercial?
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    On another note, I have been advised by one of my nubile Thai servants that tyson accused me of being a "narcissistic prick" for debating the virtues of Eva Air Biz Class.

    I plead Guilty.

    Prior to sentencing, and in mitigation, I only wonder if this is the same tyson who told us he was a helpless millionaire, bored of horribly white north Oxford, which was why he was moving to his second home in Tuscany?

    Wait. You fly commercial?
    He probably had to buy his own furniture too.....
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    SeanT said:

    surbiton said:

    SeanT said:

    On another note, I have been advised by one of my nubile Thai servants that tyson accused me of being a "narcissistic prick" for debating the virtues of Eva Air Biz Class.

    I plead Guilty.

    Prior to sentencing, and in mitigation, I only wonder if this is the same tyson who told us he was a helpless millionaire, bored of horribly white north Oxford, which was why he was moving to his second home in Tuscany?

    Nothing wrong with the poor man's business class. It has seats like any other plane. I have to admit I haven't flown Eva. My flights to Taiwan has always been with Dragon, an excellent airline.

    Tyson is a good chap. I don't think he votes Tory but like many he is not too fond of Corbyn.
    Eva Air Biz used to be incredibly cheap, about £1200 return, London-Bangkok - not much more than BA Premium Economy.

    Now it has doubled, but now you get your own podules, it's as good as First in many other airlines.

    Also the flight times are nice - an ideal 9pm night flight from Heathrow T3, a tolerable midday return from BKK.

    I do wonder how they get such good slots from Heathrow - better than BA, or anyone else.
    BA normally prefers to land early in the morning. But, of course, trans Atlantic is different as there are so many flights.

    In general, any Asian airline provides a far better service than western airlines. I remember flying Asiana from Seoul to Shanghai and I was the only biz class passenger. The stewardess actually sat on the carpet, legs folded, her face no more than a foot away from me and was explaining the lunch menu to me.

    For a moment I thought there were other services available.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    That sounds about right, the gearshift mid season was weird. IIRC there's a S3 too.

    For anyone interested, there's another cracking French drama starring the gorgeous lead of Spiral on C4 next week.
    SeanT said:

    Has anyone watched The Affair? S1 reminds me of True Detective. Just about to start S2

    For Showtime, there's less gratuitous sex than usual.

    The Affair was great.... until the damn ending (which caused universal howls of dismay).

    My guess is that the writers thought they were penning a one-off self-contained drama, which had an entirely different (and probably much darker) denouement but then the show turned into a hit and they had to briskly come up with a new, sunnier, upbeat ending which nonetheless sowed the ominous seeds for a second series, which is why the ending is so odd, contrived, disjointed, and crap.

    I haven't seen series 2.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    On another note, I have been advised by one of my nubile Thai servants that tyson accused me of being a "narcissistic prick" for debating the virtues of Eva Air Biz Class.

    I plead Guilty.

    Prior to sentencing, and in mitigation, I only wonder if this is the same tyson who told us he was a helpless millionaire, bored of horribly white north Oxford, which was why he was moving to his second home in Tuscany?

    Wait. You fly commercial?
    He probably had to buy his own furniture too.....
    You are making fun of Britain's #1 literary success story. The pound could go down if you don't show enough respect.
  • Options
    Mr. T, one hopes to enjoy being ludicrously rich (or even moderately wealthy).

    Not sure I'd ever have a fountain, though. Especially not one with a remote control.

    A castle, on the other hand...
  • Options
    MP_SEMP_SE Posts: 3,642
    edited December 2015
    SeanT said:

    surbiton said:

    SeanT said:

    On another note, I have been advised by one of my nubile Thai servants that tyson accused me of being a "narcissistic prick" for debating the virtues of Eva Air Biz Class.

    I plead Guilty.

    Prior to sentencing, and in mitigation, I only wonder if this is the same tyson who told us he was a helpless millionaire, bored of horribly white north Oxford, which was why he was moving to his second home in Tuscany?

    Nothing wrong with the poor man's business class. It has seats like any other plane. I have to admit I haven't flown Eva. My flights to Taiwan has always been with Dragon, an excellent airline.

    Tyson is a good chap. I don't think he votes Tory but like many he is not too fond of Corbyn.
    Eva Air Biz used to be incredibly cheap, about £1200 return, London-Bangkok - not much more than BA Premium Economy.

    Now it has doubled, but now you get your own podules, it's as good as First in many other airlines.

    Also the flight times are nice - an ideal 9pm night flight from Heathrow T3, a tolerable midday return from BKK.

    I do wonder how they get such good slots from Heathrow - better than BA, or anyone else.
    What is BA first class like for long haul flights? I have a bunch of airmiles to use and have been eyeing up a trip to Washington.
  • Options
    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    Mr. T, one hopes to enjoy being ludicrously rich (or even moderately wealthy).

    Not sure I'd ever have a fountain, though. Especially not one with a remote control.

    A castle, on the other hand...

    With a remote control for the boiling oil?
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    I still chuckle at @isam saying @Charles had a mahogany helicopter with gold taps.

    Oh and the superb one-up about getting an overdraft. Just epic.

    rcs1000 said:

    SeanT said:

    On another note, I have been advised by one of my nubile Thai servants that tyson accused me of being a "narcissistic prick" for debating the virtues of Eva Air Biz Class.

    I plead Guilty.

    Prior to sentencing, and in mitigation, I only wonder if this is the same tyson who told us he was a helpless millionaire, bored of horribly white north Oxford, which was why he was moving to his second home in Tuscany?

    Wait. You fly commercial?
    He probably had to buy his own furniture too.....
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    FPT:

    Tim_B said:



    That price is amazing. I just checked the price of a train ticket from Atlanta to New York City, a distance of almost 900 miles.

    The cheapest seat is $124.95. A flexible ticket is $239.70. The most expensive option - A viewliner roomette (bunk to you and me) is $302.95.

    So from $125 to $300 on a 900 mile trip, vs $750 for a 200 mile trip to Euston.

    That is stunning.

    That is...the magic of the marketplace in action.
    Basically, there is no competition in the UK Rail network. It is a licence to print money.
    These fares are after receiving government subsidy.
  • Options
    justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    How much impact will the perception of an Honours List verging on the corrupt have on polls?
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    SeanT said:

    surbiton said:

    SeanT said:

    surbiton said:

    SeanT said:

    On another note, I have been advised by one of my nubile Thai servants that tyson accused me of being a "narcissistic prick" for debating the virtues of Eva Air Biz Class.

    I plead Guilty.

    Prior to sentencing, and in mitigation, I only wonder if this is the same tyson who told us he was a helpless millionaire, bored of horribly white north Oxford, which was why he was moving to his second home in Tuscany?

    Nothing wrong with the poor man's business class. It has seats like any other plane. I have to admit I haven't flown Eva. My flights to Taiwan has always been with Dragon, an excellent airline.

    Tyson is a good chap. I don't think he votes Tory but like many he is not too fond of Corbyn.
    Eva Air Biz used to be incredibly cheap, about £1200 return, London-Bangkok - not much more than BA Premium Economy.

    Now it has doubled, but now you get your own podules, it's as good as First in many other airlines.

    Also the flight times are nice - an ideal 9pm night flight from Heathrow T3, a tolerable midday return from BKK.

    I do wonder how they get such good slots from Heathrow - better than BA, or anyone else.
    BA normally prefers to land early in the morning. But, of course, trans Atlantic is different as there are so many flights.

    In general, any Asian airline provides a far better service than western airlines. I remember flying Asiana from Seoul to Shanghai and I was the only biz class passenger. The stewardess actually sat on the carpet, legs folded, her face no more than a foot away from me and was explaining the lunch menu to me.

    For a moment I thought there were other services available.
    Asian standards of customer service are in general much better than the West. It's related to their cultures of hierarchy and caste and generalised grovelling (which are less appealing, in so many ways).

    Their luxury hotels are better for the very same reason. I did the Oberois in India this year. Oh my word.
    Lots of Oberoi trained staff are in British hotels now.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    edited December 2015
    None. Unless like Labour they're Cash For Honours. :wink:
    justin124 said:

    How much impact will the perception of an Honours List verging on the corrupt have on polls?

  • Options
    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''What is BA first class like for long haul flights? I have a bunch of airmiles to use and have been eyeing up a trip to Washington. ''

    Went to Barbados and back BA 1st earlier this year.

    Roomy, civilised, yes. Opulent, special?? no. And VERY sparing with the booze.
This discussion has been closed.