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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,418

    Interesting post.Peter Kelner has consistently said the 2 fundamentals to winning a GE are economic competence and leadership.He could be right.In such matters.I await the view from public servant,Prof .John Curtice.He has had a terrific 2015 and has his nose to the ground for Scotland in 2016.
    It needs to be said the Tories are rigging the electoral system via the most blatant gerry-mandering of IER,losing 1.9 million off the ER and attacking Labour party funding via the TUBill ,19% cut to short-money.The reduction in the number of MPs from 650 to 600 could easily be another nail in the LibDems' coffin but Labour is probably going to suffer most,a few Tory MPs could be under threat too.Not to mention the revenge attack on the HoL for shafting Osborne's sneaky Statutory Instrument. back where it belonged in a place where the sun don't shine.This government is getting more and more autocratic,rigging the electoral system.

    Good post. You could add the Lobbying Act, which curtailed the powers of lobbying groups but not commercial lobbyists.
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    Their anger has been sparked by the way the Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) used a community meeting last Thursday to publicly announce his arrest. In particular, they feel comments made at the meeting by IPCC Commissioner Cindy Butts appeared to ‘give the impression’ that the unnamed officer was guilty.

    Sources have told this newspaper that the threat from the officer’s colleagues to ‘hand in their tickets’ – a reference to their authorisation to carry firearms – extends beyond his close circle of friends in the Met’s SCO19 firearms unit.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3367467/Incensed-gun-cops-ll-lay-weapons-step-duty-protest-officer-shot-gangster-charged.html
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    Douglas Carswell has hit out against ‘dark forces’ in Ukip after learning yesterday of an apparent ‘blackmail plot’ against him involving secret tapes and false allegations about his private life.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3367452/Douglas-Carswell-targeted-Ukip-senior-aide-blackmail-plot-smear-private-life-dark-forces-party.html
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    Interesting post.Peter Kelner has consistently said the 2 fundamentals to winning a GE are economic competence and leadership.He could be right.In such matters.I await the view from public servant,Prof .John Curtice.He has had a terrific 2015 and has his nose to the ground for Scotland in 2016.
    It needs to be said the Tories are rigging the electoral system via the most blatant gerry-mandering of IER,losing 1.9 million off the ER and attacking Labour party funding via the TUBill ,19% cut to short-money.The reduction in the number of MPs from 650 to 600 could easily be another nail in the LibDems' coffin but Labour is probably going to suffer most,a few Tory MPs could be under threat too.Not to mention the revenge attack on the HoL for shafting Osborne's sneaky Statutory Instrument. back where it belonged in a place where the sun don't shine.This government is getting more and more autocratic,rigging the electoral system.

    Good post. You could add the Lobbying Act, which curtailed the powers of lobbying groups but not commercial lobbyists.
    It's not a good post. It's complete and utter BS. Individual voter registration is something that is long overdue and anyone who is stupid enough not to check they whether or not they are registered deserves all they get. Besides, if it were being done to gerrymander the GE you wouldn't do it now when there are plenty more elections before the next GE for people to find out they are not on the register and so get themselves on. The reduction of the number of MPs and sorting out of the boundaries is also long overdue as is trade union reform. And it is funny how Labour moan about the Lords when they are in power and then scream about attacks on them when they think they are attacking the Tories.

    I won't be voting Tory at the next election but I am glad they are trying to do something to sort out the mess our electoral system is in and the squealing from Labour is just rank hypocrisy.
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    Interesting post.Peter Kelner has consistently said the 2 fundamentals to winning a GE are economic competence and leadership.He could be right.In such matters.I await the view from public servant,Prof .John Curtice.He has had a terrific 2015 and has his nose to the ground for Scotland in 2016.
    It needs to be said the Tories are rigging the electoral system via the most blatant gerry-mandering of IER,losing 1.9 million off the ER and attacking Labour party funding via the TUBill ,19% cut to short-money.The reduction in the number of MPs from 650 to 600 could easily be another nail in the LibDems' coffin but Labour is probably going to suffer most,a few Tory MPs could be under threat too.Not to mention the revenge attack on the HoL for shafting Osborne's sneaky Statutory Instrument. back where it belonged in a place where the sun don't shine.This government is getting more and more autocratic,rigging the electoral system.

    Good post. You could add the Lobbying Act, which curtailed the powers of lobbying groups but not commercial lobbyists.
    It's not a good post. It's complete and utter BS. Individual voter registration is something that is long overdue and anyone who is stupid enough not to check they whether or not they are registered deserves all they get. Besides, if it were being done to gerrymander the GE you wouldn't do it now when there are plenty more elections before the next GE for people to find out they are not on the register and so get themselves on. The reduction of the number of MPs and sorting out of the boundaries is also long overdue as is trade union reform. And it is funny how Labour moan about the Lords when they are in power and then scream about attacks on them when they think they are attacking the Tories.

    I won't be voting Tory at the next election but I am glad they are trying to do something to sort out the mess our electoral system is in and the squealing from Labour is just rank hypocrisy.
    How about reduction in the number of unelected "Lords"?
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    Danny565 said:



    Danny565 said:

    AndyJS said:

    The new stupidity test: anyone who thinks Corbyn has more than a zero per cent chance of winning the next election.

    I don't think it would be as foolproof a stupidity test as anyone who thinks Osborne as leader of the Tories could perform better in a GE than Cameron.
    He could.

    Cameron never got the chance to enter a General Election against Corbyn or against a party led by Corbyn for nearly five years. Osborne v Corbyn will be more one sided than Cameron v Miliband or Cameron v Brown ever was.
    Then why is Corbyn much more competitive in polling match-ups against Osborne, than Miliband ever was in match-ups against Cameron?
    I'd point out that 18 months before he led the Tory party to the most votes any party has ever received at a general election, John Major was the choice of 5% of voters to be Tory leader/PM

    Hope for both Ozzy and Jez
    Most votes, but crap majority.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,418
    edited December 2015

    Interesting post.Peter Kelner has consistently said the 2 fundamentals to winning a GE are economic competence and leadership.He could be right.In such matters.I await the view from public servant,Prof .John Curtice.He has had a terrific 2015 and has his nose to the ground for Scotland in 2016.
    It needs to be said the Tories are rigging the electoral system via the most blatant gerry-mandering of IER,losing 1.9 million off the ER and attacking Labour party funding via the TUBill ,19% cut to short-money.The reduction in the number of MPs from 650 to 600 could easily be another nail in the LibDems' coffin but Labour is probably going to suffer most,a few Tory MPs could be under threat too.Not to mention the revenge attack on the HoL for shafting Osborne's sneaky Statutory Instrument. back where it belonged in a place where the sun don't shine.This government is getting more and more autocratic,rigging the electoral system.

    Good post. You could add the Lobbying Act, which curtailed the powers of lobbying groups but not commercial lobbyists.
    It's not a good post. It's complete and utter BS. Individual voter registration is something that is long overdue and anyone who is stupid enough not to check they whether or not they are registered deserves all they get. Besides, if it were being done to gerrymander the GE you wouldn't do it now when there are plenty more elections before the next GE for people to find out they are not on the register and so get themselves on. The reduction of the number of MPs and sorting out of the boundaries is also long overdue as is trade union reform. And it is funny how Labour moan about the Lords when they are in power and then scream about attacks on them when they think they are attacking the Tories.

    I won't be voting Tory at the next election but I am glad they are trying to do something to sort out the mess our electoral system is in and the squealing from Labour is just rank hypocrisy.
    While I agree about the need for reforms in some areas, it's the way things are being done that is causing concerns. Trade Union reform especially.

    And I can't see the sense of decreasing the number of MP's and increasing the size of the Lords.

    A genuine electoral reform would include some approach to proportionality, too.
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited December 2015

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    @ShippersUnbound
    Liam Fox has tonight declared Britain should leave the EU in the Sunday Times. Most senior figure who has served Cameron's govt to opt out

    So a backbencher who resigned from ministerial politics over four years ago? Who next, David Davis?

    I'm sure there are credible faces for Tories Out but it has to get better than that surely?
    Owen Patterson and maybe IDS
    Owen Patterson quite possibly yes. I suspect even IDS views himself as yesterday's man regarding Europe. He seems to genuinely be more interested in his welfare reforms than the Euro debates that so exercised the IDS of over two decades ago. He seems to have moved on.
    He has almost finished his welfare reforms and will then likely leave the government to join the Out campaign, John Redwood, Bernard Jenkin, Peter Lilley also likely Out backers who used to be Tory frontbenchers
    Which of them do you feel does not fall under the heading yesterday's men?
    Christ on a bike, and Mandelson, Blair, Brown, Major etc are not yesterdays men ?
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    Interesting post.Peter Kelner has consistently said the 2 fundamentals to winning a GE are economic competence and leadership.He could be right.In such matters.I await the view from public servant,Prof .John Curtice.He has had a terrific 2015 and has his nose to the ground for Scotland in 2016.
    It needs to be said the Tories are rigging the electoral system via the most blatant gerry-mandering of IER,losing 1.9 million off the ER and attacking Labour party funding via the TUBill ,19% cut to short-money.The reduction in the number of MPs from 650 to 600 could easily be another nail in the LibDems' coffin but Labour is probably going to suffer most,a few Tory MPs could be under threat too.Not to mention the revenge attack on the HoL for shafting Osborne's sneaky Statutory Instrument. back where it belonged in a place where the sun don't shine.This government is getting more and more autocratic,rigging the electoral system.

    Good post. You could add the Lobbying Act, which curtailed the powers of lobbying groups but not commercial lobbyists.
    It's not a good post. It's complete and utter BS. Individual voter registration is something that is long overdue and anyone who is stupid enough not to check they whether or not they are registered deserves all they get. Besides, if it were being done to gerrymander the GE you wouldn't do it now when there are plenty more elections before the next GE for people to find out they are not on the register and so get themselves on. The reduction of the number of MPs and sorting out of the boundaries is also long overdue as is trade union reform. And it is funny how Labour moan about the Lords when they are in power and then scream about attacks on them when they think they are attacking the Tories.

    I won't be voting Tory at the next election but I am glad they are trying to do something to sort out the mess our electoral system is in and the squealing from Labour is just rank hypocrisy.
    While I agree about the need for reforms in some areas, it's the way things are being done that is causing concerns. Trade Union reform especially.

    And I can't see the sense of decreasing the number of MP's and increasing the size of the Lords.

    A genuine electoral reform would include some approach to proportionality, too.
    No it wouldn't. PR is anti democratic and just hands more power to the parties.

    Yes we should radically reduce the size of the Lords but that wasn't what Volcanopete was talking about. He was referring to an attack on the Lords, no mention of changing its size.
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    Interesting post.Peter Kelner has consistently said the 2 fundamentals to winning a GE are economic competence and leadership.He could be right.In such matters.I await the view from public servant,Prof .John Curtice.He has had a terrific 2015 and has his nose to the ground for Scotland in 2016.
    It needs to be said the Tories are rigging the electoral system via the most blatant gerry-mandering of IER,losing 1.9 million off the ER and attacking Labour party funding via the TUBill ,19% cut to short-money.The reduction in the number of MPs from 650 to 600 could easily be another nail in the LibDems' coffin but Labour is probably going to suffer most,a few Tory MPs could be under threat too.Not to mention the revenge attack on the HoL for shafting Osborne's sneaky Statutory Instrument. back where it belonged in a place where the sun don't shine.This government is getting more and more autocratic,rigging the electoral system.

    Good post. You could add the Lobbying Act, which curtailed the powers of lobbying groups but not commercial lobbyists.
    It's not a good post. It's complete and utter BS. Individual voter registration is something that is long overdue and anyone who is stupid enough not to check they whether or not they are registered deserves all they get. Besides, if it were being done to gerrymander the GE you wouldn't do it now when there are plenty more elections before the next GE for people to find out they are not on the register and so get themselves on. The reduction of the number of MPs and sorting out of the boundaries is also long overdue as is trade union reform. And it is funny how Labour moan about the Lords when they are in power and then scream about attacks on them when they think they are attacking the Tories.

    I won't be voting Tory at the next election but I am glad they are trying to do something to sort out the mess our electoral system is in and the squealing from Labour is just rank hypocrisy.
    How about reduction in the number of unelected "Lords"?
    A great idea. One that Volcanopete didn't mention.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Interesting post.Peter Kelner has consistently said the 2 fundamentals to winning a GE are economic competence and leadership.He could be right.In such matters.I await the view from public servant,Prof .John Curtice.He has had a terrific 2015 and has his nose to the ground for Scotland in 2016.
    It needs to be said the Tories are rigging the electoral system via the most blatant gerry-mandering of IER,losing 1.9 million off the ER and attacking Labour party funding via the TUBill ,19% cut to short-money.The reduction in the number of MPs from 650 to 600 could easily be another nail in the LibDems' coffin but Labour is probably going to suffer most,a few Tory MPs could be under threat too.Not to mention the revenge attack on the HoL for shafting Osborne's sneaky Statutory Instrument. back where it belonged in a place where the sun don't shine.This government is getting more and more autocratic,rigging the electoral system.

    Why is requiring individual registration of voters wrong?

    Why should union leaders be allowed to allocate members money to political parties without consulting them while companies can not?
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Charles said:

    Interesting post.Peter Kelner has consistently said the 2 fundamentals to winning a GE are economic competence and leadership.He could be right.In such matters.I await the view from public servant,Prof .John Curtice.He has had a terrific 2015 and has his nose to the ground for Scotland in 2016.
    It needs to be said the Tories are rigging the electoral system via the most blatant gerry-mandering of IER,losing 1.9 million off the ER and attacking Labour party funding via the TUBill ,19% cut to short-money.The reduction in the number of MPs from 650 to 600 could easily be another nail in the LibDems' coffin but Labour is probably going to suffer most,a few Tory MPs could be under threat too.Not to mention the revenge attack on the HoL for shafting Osborne's sneaky Statutory Instrument. back where it belonged in a place where the sun don't shine.This government is getting more and more autocratic,rigging the electoral system.

    Why is requiring individual registration of voters wrong?

    Why should union leaders be allowed to allocate members money to political parties without consulting them while companies can not?
    You forget that there is one rule for the left, and another for the right. Given the Left are right on issues, they don't have to be held to the same rules.

    In the US, all you hear about regarding gerrymandering is Dem whining about those terrible GOPers, fixing seats. But look at what the Dems have done to the districts in my state, MD.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Maryland_congressional_districts

    With the exception of the Eastern Shore (district 1), they have carved out the republican areas and added them to very Dem areas by tiny corridors so that no other district is GOP. Without gerrymandering, the GOP would have 2-3 more seats from MD.

    But in the UK, the Labour party would never engineer the postal vote or voting age or encourage immigration to effect the vote, would they?
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,928
    Indigo said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    @ShippersUnbound
    Liam Fox has tonight declared Britain should leave the EU in the Sunday Times. Most senior figure who has served Cameron's govt to opt out

    So a backbencher who resigned from ministerial politics over four years ago? Who next, David Davis?

    I'm sure there are credible faces for Tories Out but it has to get better than that surely?
    Owen Patterson and maybe IDS
    Owen Patterson quite possibly yes. I suspect even IDS views himself as yesterday's man regarding Europe. He seems to genuinely be more interested in his welfare reforms than the Euro debates that so exercised the IDS of over two decades ago. He seems to have moved on.
    He has almost finished his welfare reforms and will then likely leave the government to join the Out campaign, John Redwood, Bernard Jenkin, Peter Lilley also likely Out backers who used to be Tory frontbenchers
    Which of them do you feel does not fall under the heading yesterday's men?
    Christ on a bike, and Mandelson, Blair, Brown, Major etc are not yesterdays men ?
    They are men from two decades ago. But they knew how to win elections, something the current crop leading Labour would do well to at least acknowledge.
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    Indigo said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    @ShippersUnbound
    Liam Fox has tonight declared Britain should leave the EU in the Sunday Times. Most senior figure who has served Cameron's govt to opt out

    So a backbencher who resigned from ministerial politics over four years ago? Who next, David Davis?

    I'm sure there are credible faces for Tories Out but it has to get better than that surely?
    Owen Patterson and maybe IDS
    Owen Patterson quite possibly yes. I suspect even IDS views himself as yesterday's man regarding Europe. He seems to genuinely be more interested in his welfare reforms than the Euro debates that so exercised the IDS of over two decades ago. He seems to have moved on.
    He has almost finished his welfare reforms and will then likely leave the government to join the Out campaign, John Redwood, Bernard Jenkin, Peter Lilley also likely Out backers who used to be Tory frontbenchers
    Which of them do you feel does not fall under the heading yesterday's men?
    Christ on a bike, and Mandelson, Blair, Brown, Major etc are not yesterdays men ?
    Yes they all are exactly like Clarke who I also mentioned. Though since we are talking Tories I didn't mention the Labour figures you mentioned (did Major).
This discussion has been closed.