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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The GE2015 polls weren’t wrong – we were just looking at th

SystemSystem Posts: 11,699
edited December 2015 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The GE2015 polls weren’t wrong – we were just looking at the wrong numbers

A month today, on January 19th, the investigation into what went wrong with the general election polling will be announcing its findings at a special event in London.

Read the full story here


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    I think looking back at Ed's time as leader, the Tories did set up their plan early. By 2013/14 it had already stuck.

    It looks a lot like they will repeat the same trick... surely there's no way back for Corbyn?
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    I think looking back at Ed's time as leader, the Tories did set up their plan early. By 2013/14 it had already stuck.

    It looks a lot like they will repeat the same trick... surely there's no way back for Corbyn?

    Agree completely. Corbyn is a dead man walking.
  • Options
    Here's another way of illustrating the same thing (basically the same data)

    https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/601115131041423361
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    edited December 2015
    Very true.

    Which is why it's so baffling that people are projecting an Osborne-led Tory party to win a landslide when he has such terrible personal ratings.
  • Options

    Here's another way of illustrating the same thing (basically the same data)

    https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/601115131041423361

    Both this and Mike's figures are at final polls (i.e. when everyone has made up their minds). Does it make much difference if you go back 1/3/6 months?
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    Here's another way of illustrating the same thing (basically the same data)

    https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/601115131041423361

    Both this and Mike's figures are at final polls (i.e. when everyone has made up their minds). Does it make much difference if you go back 1/3/6 months?
    6 months before the election, I think the gap between Dave and Ed was probably even bigger.

    In the mid-term of the parliament, I think Miliband's "satisfaction" ratings were often ahead of Cameron's, but the "best PM" question always showed a comfortable Cameron lead I think throughout the parliament.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838

    I think looking back at Ed's time as leader, the Tories did set up their plan early. By 2013/14 it had already stuck.

    It looks a lot like they will repeat the same trick... surely there's no way back for Corbyn?

    Agree completely. Corbyn is a dead man walking.
    Yes. I think the window has already closed for him.
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    I like this, but the satisfaction ratings barely shifted from 2010 - unlike the result. The gaps in satisfaction rating and overall result also don't really match in 1979, 92, or 05. Fair point about 92 the gap 'predicting' the polling error though.
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    Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091
    Quincel said:

    I like this, but the satisfaction ratings barely shifted from 2010 - unlike the result.

    What do you mean "unlike the result"? The vote shares were very similar in 2015 compared to 2010.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Danny565 said:

    Very true.

    Which is why it's so baffling that people are projecting an Osborne-led Tory party to win a landslide when he has such terrible personal ratings.

    I suppose one could project that if one thought that Corbyn's ratings would be even worse than Osborne's if/when they were both party leaders. That's not wholly fanciful, I think.

    However I think a better view is that OsCon would comfortably beat CorLab but not by a landslide. MayCon would do a lot better than OsCon imo.
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Danny565 said:

    Here's another way of illustrating the same thing (basically the same data)

    https://twitter.com/ncpoliticsuk/status/601115131041423361

    Both this and Mike's figures are at final polls (i.e. when everyone has made up their minds). Does it make much difference if you go back 1/3/6 months?
    6 months before the election, I think the gap between Dave and Ed was probably even bigger.

    In the mid-term of the parliament, I think Miliband's "satisfaction" ratings were often ahead of Cameron's, but the "best PM" question always showed a comfortable Cameron lead I think throughout the parliament.
    Yes, tricky thing is that (without hindsight) we need to know which ratings to look at. Best PM? Good/bad job etc.
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    Danny565 said:

    Quincel said:

    I like this, but the satisfaction ratings barely shifted from 2010 - unlike the result.

    What do you mean "unlike the result"? The vote shares were very similar in 2015 compared to 2010.
    Ed increased the Labour vote-share by a truly massive 1.4%!
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    Wanderer said:

    Danny565 said:

    Very true.

    Which is why it's so baffling that people are projecting an Osborne-led Tory party to win a landslide when he has such terrible personal ratings.

    I suppose one could project that if one thought that Corbyn's ratings would be even worse than Osborne's if/when they were both party leaders. That's not wholly fanciful, I think.

    However I think a better view is that OsCon would comfortably beat CorLab but not by a landslide. MayCon would do a lot better than OsCon imo.
    ConAir led by Cameron Poe :lol:
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Btw, by this line of thinking Boris is the Conservatives' best choice by miles, no?
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    O/T:

    "British universities have become too politically correct and are stifling free speech by banning anything that causes the least offence to anyone, a group of leading academics warns on Saturday.

    A whole generation of students is being denied the “intellectual challenge of debating conflicting views” because self-censorship is turning campuses into over-sanitised “safe spaces”, they say."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12059161/Politically-correct-universities-are-killing-free-speech.html
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited December 2015
    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "British universities have become too politically correct and are stifling free speech by banning anything that causes the least offence to anyone, a group of leading academics warns on Saturday.

    A whole generation of students is being denied the “intellectual challenge of debating conflicting views” because self-censorship is turning campuses into over-sanitised “safe spaces”, they say."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12059161/Politically-correct-universities-are-killing-free-speech.html

    Unless we are talking about Islamist Extremists coming onto campus to spread their warped views or views held by Islamist dominated societies, then they turn a blind eye...
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    FPT:

    Another brewing scandal is that many new-build homes are not exactly meeting the required insulation and other standards ...

    (Note, IANAE. But I believe the above is right).

    Talking of which, what is this rumour I hear in the distance (ie. from my mother) about gas cookers and/or heating being phased out over the next 15 years. Seems bit odd to build a load of power stations to burn gas, so we can provide electricity to people, so they don't have to burn gas...
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    Wanderer said:

    Btw, by this line of thinking Boris is the Conservatives' best choice by miles, no?

    Cripes...imagine a GE campaign of Boris vs Corbyn, all the scandals and previous comments, they would have to have special bonus editions of the newspapers to cover all the material....
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137
    Read 'em and weep Corbynistas, read 'em and weep.....
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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "British universities have become too politically correct and are stifling free speech by banning anything that causes the least offence to anyone, a group of leading academics warns on Saturday.

    A whole generation of students is being denied the “intellectual challenge of debating conflicting views” because self-censorship is turning campuses into over-sanitised “safe spaces”, they say."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12059161/Politically-correct-universities-are-killing-free-speech.html

    My 15 year old son has been following this sort of development with increasing dismay (he's pretty militant on free speech) to the extent that he is now moving away from a medical career through university and considering joining the forces and doing it there. I am not sure how he figures he will be able to say what he wants more that way!
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137

    Wanderer said:

    Btw, by this line of thinking Boris is the Conservatives' best choice by miles, no?

    Cripes...imagine a GE campaign of Boris vs Corbyn, all the scandals and previous comments, they would have to have special bonus editions of the newspapers to cover all the material....
    Might have to put a few bob on Prime Minister Tim Farron....
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137
    Indigo said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "British universities have become too politically correct and are stifling free speech by banning anything that causes the least offence to anyone, a group of leading academics warns on Saturday.

    A whole generation of students is being denied the “intellectual challenge of debating conflicting views” because self-censorship is turning campuses into over-sanitised “safe spaces”, they say."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12059161/Politically-correct-universities-are-killing-free-speech.html

    My 15 year old son has been following this sort of development with increasing dismay (he's pretty militant on free speech) to the extent that he is now moving away from a medical career through university and considering joining the forces and doing it there. I am not sure how he figures he will be able to say what he wants more that way!
    You can say quite a bit more when you are armed.....
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    WandererWanderer Posts: 3,838
    Indigo said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "British universities have become too politically correct and are stifling free speech by banning anything that causes the least offence to anyone, a group of leading academics warns on Saturday.

    A whole generation of students is being denied the “intellectual challenge of debating conflicting views” because self-censorship is turning campuses into over-sanitised “safe spaces”, they say."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12059161/Politically-correct-universities-are-killing-free-speech.html

    My 15 year old son has been following this sort of development with increasing dismay (he's pretty militant on free speech) to the extent that he is now moving away from a medical career through university and considering joining the forces and doing it there. I am not sure how he figures he will be able to say what he wants more that way!
    I can see that actually. If you are going to have your freedom restricted you may as well join the army where the restriction is up-front and absolute rather than insidious. Maybe.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited December 2015
    Man Utd 0 Norwich City 2

    Could Gus be following Jose to the job centre?
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    Man Utd 0 Norwich City 2

    Could Gus be following Jose to the job centre?

    If you mean van Gaal you have to think Jose will be making eyes at OT.

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,360

    Man Utd 0 Norwich City 2

    Could Gus be following Jose to the job centre?

    Please god yes. We cannot go on like this. At least with Mourinho it would not be boring.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    England have a great record of overrating young footballers but Alli must be worth a bob or two. I've never seen anybody run as much as him in a game.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    DavidL said:

    Man Utd 0 Norwich City 2

    Could Gus be following Jose to the job centre?

    Please god yes. We cannot go on like this. At least with Mourinho it would not be boring.
    The football would, he is a very negative manager.
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    Olly Martins, Labour PCC for Bedfordshire, has been reselected. The trigger ballot process concluded today and he secured the backing of the majority of CLPs and affiliates in the area.

    Luton South and Luton North CLPs voted against his re-selection but the Bedfordshire CLPs outside Luton backed him.
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,060
    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    Another brewing scandal is that many new-build homes are not exactly meeting the required insulation and other standards ...

    (Note, IANAE. But I believe the above is right).

    Talking of which, what is this rumour I hear in the distance (ie. from my mother) about gas cookers and/or heating being phased out over the next 15 years. Seems bit odd to build a load of power stations to burn gas, so we can provide electricity to people, so they don't have to burn gas...
    Not heard anything about that. I suppose it might be as North Sea gas runs out? In which case will we reopen the coal mines and go back to the good old days of town gas, with British Gas visiting every house to fit new burners? ;)

    If I'm right about the reason, couldn't the gas distribution network be supplied with LNG supplies once North Sea gas runs out?
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    What on earth is going on with Leicester, I keep saying the bubble will burst soon.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985

    What on earth is going on with Leicester, I keep saying the bubble will burst soon.

    I actually just caught glimpse of the Premier table too. What's going on, and why are Chelsea being so crap?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,984

    What on earth is going on with Leicester, I keep saying the bubble will burst soon.

    Trump for POTUS !
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,196

    What on earth is going on with Leicester, I keep saying the bubble will burst soon.

    I feel privileged to have been present at their only defeat this season.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited December 2015

    What on earth is going on with Leicester, I keep saying the bubble will burst soon.

    The overall quality of the Premier league this season is very poor, or rather the gap between the big teams and the rest isn't there.

    There is some stat I saw that said no team who was top at Christmas has ever finished outside of the top 4. Leicester in Champions League next season....
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    tlg86 said:

    What on earth is going on with Leicester, I keep saying the bubble will burst soon.

    I feel privileged to have been present at their only defeat this season.
    Tottenham's draw up there is beginning to look like a point gained

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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    What on earth is going on with Leicester, I keep saying the bubble will burst soon.

    The overall quality of the Premier league this season is very poor, or rather the gap between the big teams and the rest isn't there.

    There is some stat I saw that said no team who was top at Christmas has ever finished outside of the top 4. Leicester in Champions League next season....
    Yes I saw that, they're showing no sign of faltering although the Vardy bubble has burst

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    IndigoIndigo Posts: 9,966
    edited December 2015

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    Another brewing scandal is that many new-build homes are not exactly meeting the required insulation and other standards ...

    (Note, IANAE. But I believe the above is right).

    Talking of which, what is this rumour I hear in the distance (ie. from my mother) about gas cookers and/or heating being phased out over the next 15 years. Seems bit odd to build a load of power stations to burn gas, so we can provide electricity to people, so they don't have to burn gas...
    Not heard anything about that. I suppose it might be as North Sea gas runs out? In which case will we reopen the coal mines and go back to the good old days of town gas, with British Gas visiting every house to fit new burners? ;)

    If I'm right about the reason, couldn't the gas distribution network be supplied with LNG supplies once North Sea gas runs out?
    I had a look around, apparently its Paris to blame, also indicates why people are not rushing out to build new gas power stations.

    http://www.propertyindustryeye.com/huge-change-facing-property-world-as-gas-looks-set-to-be-phased-out/
    The property world looks set to be facing an enormous upheaval following the climate change deal in Paris which could see the end of cooking and heating with gas in the UK.

    Gas hobs, cookers, fires and boilers could all be phased out within 15 years, with households dumping appliances.

    All gas-fired power stations must also close by the mid-2030s, unless they manage to remove CO2 from their emissions.
    Sounds like a vote winner.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited December 2015

    What on earth is going on with Leicester, I keep saying the bubble will burst soon.

    The overall quality of the Premier league this season is very poor, or rather the gap between the big teams and the rest isn't there.

    There is some stat I saw that said no team who was top at Christmas has ever finished outside of the top 4. Leicester in Champions League next season....
    Yes I saw that, they're showing no sign of faltering although the Vardy bubble has burst

    That has to be the biggest fear for Leicester fans, if Vardy or Mahrez gets injured, there is no depth to their squad e.g. Ulloa is at best a good Championship player, definitely not a top Premier League striker.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    Wanderer said:

    Indigo said:

    AndyJS said:

    O/T:

    "British universities have become too politically correct and are stifling free speech by banning anything that causes the least offence to anyone, a group of leading academics warns on Saturday.

    A whole generation of students is being denied the “intellectual challenge of debating conflicting views” because self-censorship is turning campuses into over-sanitised “safe spaces”, they say."

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/12059161/Politically-correct-universities-are-killing-free-speech.html

    My 15 year old son has been following this sort of development with increasing dismay (he's pretty militant on free speech) to the extent that he is now moving away from a medical career through university and considering joining the forces and doing it there. I am not sure how he figures he will be able to say what he wants more that way!
    I can see that actually. If you are going to have your freedom restricted you may as well join the army where the restriction is up-front and absolute rather than insidious. Maybe.
    As a soldier you can say what you like, as long as you obey lawful orders and don't tell the RSM what you really think of him you won't have too many problems. Oh, and when you tell an officer, "Don't be a C***" always remember to say, "Sir".
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    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    Another brewing scandal is that many new-build homes are not exactly meeting the required insulation and other standards ...

    (Note, IANAE. But I believe the above is right).

    Talking of which, what is this rumour I hear in the distance (ie. from my mother) about gas cookers and/or heating being phased out over the next 15 years. Seems bit odd to build a load of power stations to burn gas, so we can provide electricity to people, so they don't have to burn gas...
    Not heard anything about that. I suppose it might be as North Sea gas runs out? In which case will we reopen the coal mines and go back to the good old days of town gas, with British Gas visiting every house to fit new burners? ;)

    If I'm right about the reason, couldn't the gas distribution network be supplied with LNG supplies once North Sea gas runs out?
    FPT
    I have a mate who is a damp expert working for insurance companies.
    He has been passionately against cavity wall insulation for precisely the reasons you outlined.
    The flats where I live had this done recently, my bit wasn't done as I refused consent.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492

    What on earth is going on with Leicester, I keep saying the bubble will burst soon.

    The overall quality of the Premier league this season is very poor, or rather the gap between the big teams and the rest isn't there.

    There is some stat I saw that said no team who was top at Christmas has ever finished outside of the top 4. Leicester in Champions League next season....
    Yes I saw that, they're showing no sign of faltering although the Vardy bubble has burst

    That has to be the biggest fear for Leicester fans, if Vardy or Mahrez gets injured, there is no depth to their squad e.g. Ulloa is at best a good Championship player, definitely not a top Premier League striker.
    I thought for a moment I was on a football forum for a moment and was waiting for heaps of abuse for my Vardy claim, football fans in the main don't do irony. But your point is correct, it's a squad thing after Christmas.

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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    Danny565 said:

    Very true.

    Which is why it's so baffling that people are projecting an Osborne-led Tory party to win a landslide when he has such terrible personal ratings.

    I doubt it'd be a landslide but i wouldn't rule it out against Corbyn. I also think any Labour leader with such a strong left-wing agenda will struggle to win.
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    blackburn63blackburn63 Posts: 4,492
    Chelsea could do worse than appoint Pardew, every bit as competent as some of the overhyped managers the prem has seen in the past.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    Another brewing scandal is that many new-build homes are not exactly meeting the required insulation and other standards ...

    (Note, IANAE. But I believe the above is right).

    Talking of which, what is this rumour I hear in the distance (ie. from my mother) about gas cookers and/or heating being phased out over the next 15 years. Seems bit odd to build a load of power stations to burn gas, so we can provide electricity to people, so they don't have to burn gas...
    Not heard anything about that. I suppose it might be as North Sea gas runs out? In which case will we reopen the coal mines and go back to the good old days of town gas, with British Gas visiting every house to fit new burners? ;)

    If I'm right about the reason, couldn't the gas distribution network be supplied with LNG supplies once North Sea gas runs out?
    The rumour Indigo has heard from his mother is, I think, based on a story in the Daily Mail extrapolating from what Amber Rudd said about the Paris agreement. Probably not worth worrying about but with Cameron and a doris like Rudd in change anything is possible. Let's face it the energy policy they have been running so far doesn't make too much sense, so further idiocies are not beyond imagination.

    P.S. You asked: my email is HurstLlama at gmail dot com
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,984
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33519662

    Those EXPERTS in full on when Ranieri was appointed:

    Gary Lineker "Claudio Ranieri? Really? Ranieri is clearly experienced, but this is an uninspired choice by Leicester."

    Robbie Savage "Ranieri, good manager but for me not Leicester."

    Harry Redknapp "Ranieri is a nice guy, but he's done well to get the Leicester job."
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,984

    Chelsea could do worse than appoint Pardew, every bit as competent as some of the overhyped managers the prem has seen in the past.

    Pardew would be a solid choice I think.
  • Options

    I think looking back at Ed's time as leader, the Tories did set up their plan early. By 2013/14 it had already stuck.

    It looks a lot like they will repeat the same trick... surely there's no way back for Corbyn?

    Agree completely. Corbyn is a dead man walking.
    And Dr Sven Palmer is just muttering; desperate with denial, logically faulting....

    Maybe a perfect candidate for Bedfordshire Lib-Dhimmies...?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    felix said:

    Danny565 said:

    Very true.

    Which is why it's so baffling that people are projecting an Osborne-led Tory party to win a landslide when he has such terrible personal ratings.

    I doubt it'd be a landslide but i wouldn't rule it out against Corbyn. I also think any Labour leader with such a strong left-wing agenda will struggle to win.
    I'd like to know where those predictions were made? :D
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Didn't this blog used to argue that leader ratings didn't predict elections, using Callaghan versus Thatcher 1979 as an example?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,955
    Danny565 said:

    Very true.

    Which is why it's so baffling that people are projecting an Osborne-led Tory party to win a landslide when he has such terrible personal ratings.

    I think some are presuming
    his opponent's ratings will be even worse, but there is no guarantee of that even with Corbyn leading Labour, and of course he may not be at the time.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,291
    edited December 2015

    Chelsea could do worse than appoint Pardew, every bit as competent as some of the overhyped managers the prem has seen in the past.

    Palace just got a late winner. Done wonders with there since taking over.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    Another brewing scandal is that many new-build homes are not exactly meeting the required insulation and other standards ...

    (Note, IANAE. But I believe the above is right).

    Talking of which, what is this rumour I hear in the distance (ie. from my mother) about gas cookers and/or heating being phased out over the next 15 years. Seems bit odd to build a load of power stations to burn gas, so we can provide electricity to people, so they don't have to burn gas...
    Not heard anything about that. I suppose it might be as North Sea gas runs out? In which case will we reopen the coal mines and go back to the good old days of town gas, with British Gas visiting every house to fit new burners? ;)

    If I'm right about the reason, couldn't the gas distribution network be supplied with LNG supplies once North Sea gas runs out?
    I had a look around, apparently its Paris to blame, also indicates why people are not rushing out to build new gas power stations.

    http://www.propertyindustryeye.com/huge-change-facing-property-world-as-gas-looks-set-to-be-phased-out/
    The property world looks set to be facing an enormous upheaval following the climate change deal in Paris which could see the end of cooking and heating with gas in the UK.

    Gas hobs, cookers, fires and boilers could all be phased out within 15 years, with households dumping appliances.

    All gas-fired power stations must also close by the mid-2030s, unless they manage to remove CO2 from their emissions.
    Sounds like a vote winner.

    That'd be pretty hard for the UK. It sounds a bit hyperbolic to me.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    On topic (I know, but I do do it occasionally), when the polling companies ask the leader satisfaction question do they then submit the results to all the same weighting methods as the voting intention?
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    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,196
    Pulpstar said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33519662

    Those EXPERTS in full on when Ranieri was appointed:

    Gary Lineker "Claudio Ranieri? Really? Ranieri is clearly experienced, but this is an uninspired choice by Leicester."

    Robbie Savage "Ranieri, good manager but for me not Leicester."

    Harry Redknapp "Ranieri is a nice guy, but he's done well to get the Leicester job."

    To be fair, I think Ranieri was lucky to get the job - but he's done very well. Life - and sport - is all about taking your chances when they come.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985
    edited December 2015
    felix said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    Another brewing scandal is that many new-build homes are not exactly meeting the required insulation and other standards ...

    (Note, IANAE. But I believe the above is right).

    Talking of which, what is this rumour I hear in the distance (ie. from my mother) about gas cookers and/or heating being phased out over the next 15 years. Seems bit odd to build a load of power stations to burn gas, so we can provide electricity to people, so they don't have to burn gas...
    Not heard anything about that. I suppose it might be as North Sea gas runs out? In which case will we reopen the coal mines and go back to the good old days of town gas, with British Gas visiting every house to fit new burners? ;)

    If I'm right about the reason, couldn't the gas distribution network be supplied with LNG supplies once North Sea gas runs out?
    I had a look around, apparently its Paris to blame, also indicates why people are not rushing out to build new gas power stations.

    http://www.propertyindustryeye.com/huge-change-facing-property-world-as-gas-looks-set-to-be-phased-out/
    The property world looks set to be facing an enormous upheaval following the climate change deal in Paris which could see the end of cooking and heating with gas in the UK.

    Gas hobs, cookers, fires and boilers could all be phased out within 15 years, with households dumping appliances.

    All gas-fired power stations must also close by the mid-2030s, unless they manage to remove CO2 from their emissions.
    Sounds like a vote winner.
    That'd be pretty hard for the UK. It sounds a bit hyperbolic to me.

    The quote is from someone with a vested interest in scrapping them, it seems ;)

    He said: “Gas cookers will be phased out, probably as soon as possible.

    “I suspect manufacturers will simply stop making them.”

    Oh, they will, will they?
  • Options
    Pardew was the [MODERATED] eejit that began the undermining of CAFC. We now get beaten by minnows such as Burnley and are owned by a feckin' Belgian...!

    :paĺace-spanner:
  • Options
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33519662

    Those EXPERTS in full on when Ranieri was appointed:

    Gary Lineker "Claudio Ranieri? Really? Ranieri is clearly experienced, but this is an uninspired choice by Leicester."

    Robbie Savage "Ranieri, good manager but for me not Leicester."

    Harry Redknapp "Ranieri is a nice guy, but he's done well to get the Leicester job."

    To be fair, I think Ranieri was lucky to get the job - but he's done very well. Life - and sport - is all about taking your chances when they come.
    I think we also have to remember just how well Leicester finished last season under the bonkers Pearson. They had an amazing record in the last 10 or so games.

    And on the flip side, Chelsea had a terrible end, and their form has just continued on into this season.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    felix said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    Another brewing scandal is that many new-build homes are not exactly meeting the required insulation and other standards ...

    (Note, IANAE. But I believe the above is right).

    Talking of which, what is this rumour I hear in the distance (ie. from my mother) about gas cookers and/or heating being phased out over the next 15 years. Seems bit odd to build a load of power stations to burn gas, so we can provide electricity to people, so they don't have to burn gas...
    Not heard anything about that. I suppose it might be as North Sea gas runs out? In which case will we reopen the coal mines and go back to the good old days of town gas, with British Gas visiting every house to fit new burners? ;)

    If I'm right about the reason, couldn't the gas distribution network be supplied with LNG supplies once North Sea gas runs out?
    I had a look around, apparently its Paris to blame, also indicates why people are not rushing out to build new gas power stations.

    http://www.propertyindustryeye.com/huge-change-facing-property-world-as-gas-looks-set-to-be-phased-out/
    The property world looks set to be facing an enormous upheaval following the climate change deal in Paris which could see the end of cooking and heating with gas in the UK.

    Gas hobs, cookers, fires and boilers could all be phased out within 15 years, with households dumping appliances.

    All gas-fired power stations must also close by the mid-2030s, unless they manage to remove CO2 from their emissions.
    Sounds like a vote winner.
    That'd be pretty hard for the UK. It sounds a bit hyperbolic to me.

    It does indeed, Mr. Felix, but such stupidity is not beyond the reach of our politicians - see the Climate Change Act as a starter for ten. So who knows they may yet go for it, after all I keep reading that insulating my home will reduce the amount of electricity I use.

    Given that I heat the place with gas and the only electricity involved is in running the pump for a few hours each day for a couple of months each year, I have to wonder about the intellectual capacity of the people who come out with such guff.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985

    felix said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    Another brewing scandal is that many new-build homes are not exactly meeting the required insulation and other standards ...

    (Note, IANAE. But I believe the above is right).

    Talking of which, what is this rumour I hear in the distance (ie. from my mother) about gas cookers and/or heating being phased out over the next 15 years. Seems bit odd to build a load of power stations to burn gas, so we can provide electricity to people, so they don't have to burn gas...
    Not heard anything about that. I suppose it might be as North Sea gas runs out? In which case will we reopen the coal mines and go back to the good old days of town gas, with British Gas visiting every house to fit new burners? ;)

    If I'm right about the reason, couldn't the gas distribution network be supplied with LNG supplies once North Sea gas runs out?
    I had a look around, apparently its Paris to blame, also indicates why people are not rushing out to build new gas power stations.

    http://www.propertyindustryeye.com/huge-change-facing-property-world-as-gas-looks-set-to-be-phased-out/
    The property world looks set to be facing an enormous upheaval following the climate change deal in Paris which could see the end of cooking and heating with gas in the UK.

    Gas hobs, cookers, fires and boilers could all be phased out within 15 years, with households dumping appliances.

    All gas-fired power stations must also close by the mid-2030s, unless they manage to remove CO2 from their emissions.
    Sounds like a vote winner.
    That'd be pretty hard for the UK. It sounds a bit hyperbolic to me.
    It does indeed, Mr. Felix, but such stupidity is not beyond the reach of our politicians - see the Climate Change Act as a starter for ten. So who knows they may yet go for it, after all I keep reading that insulating my home will reduce the amount of electricity I use.

    Given that I heat the place with gas and the only electricity involved is in running the pump for a few hours each day for a couple of months each year, I have to wonder about the intellectual capacity of the people who come out with such guff.

    Some people do heat their homes with electric power, perhaps they are who the advice is aimed at?
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,056

    It does indeed, Mr. Felix, but such stupidity is not beyond the reach of our politicians - see the Climate Change Act as a starter for ten. So who knows they may yet go for it, after all I keep reading that insulating my home will reduce the amount of electricity I use.

    Given that I heat the place with gas and the only electricity involved is in running the pump for a few hours each day for a couple of months each year, I have to wonder about the intellectual capacity of the people who come out with such guff.

    Heating with gas is incredibly efficient. It's a much better idea than using a power station to produce electricity, then sending the electricity over wires, and then passing the electricity through something to generate heat through electrical resistance.

    But that's just my view.
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    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    kle4 said:

    Danny565 said:

    Very true.

    Which is why it's so baffling that people are projecting an Osborne-led Tory party to win a landslide when he has such terrible personal ratings.

    I think some are presuming
    his opponent's ratings will be even worse, but there is no guarantee of that even with Corbyn leading Labour, and of course he may not be at the time.
    It might not be Osbo. He might prefer to continue his grip on the treasury and continue his Reich
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    RobD said:

    felix said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    Another brewing scandal is that many new-build homes are not exactly meeting the required insulation and other standards ...

    (Note, IANAE. But I believe the above is right).

    Talking of which, what is this rumour I hear in the distance (ie. from my mother) about gas cookers and/or heating being phased out over the next 15 years. Seems bit odd to build a load of power stations to burn gas, so we can provide electricity to people, so they don't have to burn gas...
    Not heard anything about that. I suppose it might be as North Sea gas runs out? In which case will we reopen the coal mines and go back to the good old days of town gas, with British Gas visiting every house to fit new burners? ;)

    If I'm right about the reason, couldn't the gas distribution network be supplied with LNG supplies once North Sea gas runs out?
    I had a look around, apparently its Paris to blame, also indicates why people are not rushing out to build new gas power stations.

    http://www.propertyindustryeye.com/huge-change-facing-property-world-as-gas-looks-set-to-be-phased-out/
    The property world looks set to be facing an enormous upheaval following the climate change deal in Paris which could see the end of cooking and heating with gas in the UK.

    Gas hobs, cookers, fires and boilers could all be phased out within 15 years, with households dumping appliances.

    All gas-fired power stations must also close by the mid-2030s, unless they manage to remove CO2 from their emissions.
    Sounds like a vote winner.
    That'd be pretty hard for the UK. It sounds a bit hyperbolic to me.
    It does indeed, Mr. Felix, but such stupidity is not beyond the reach of our politicians - see the Climate Change Act as a starter for ten. So who knows they may yet go for it, after all I keep reading that insulating my home will reduce the amount of electricity I use.

    Given that I heat the place with gas and the only electricity involved is in running the pump for a few hours each day for a couple of months each year, I have to wonder about the intellectual capacity of the people who come out with such guff.
    Some people do heat their homes with electric power, perhaps they are who the advice is aimed at?

    Fair comment, but what percentage of homes do use electric heating? A very small one I think.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    RobD said:

    felix said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    Another brewing scandal is that many new-build homes are not exactly meeting the required insulation and other standards ...

    (Note, IANAE. But I believe the above is right).

    Talking of which, what is this rumour I hear in the distance (ie. from my mother) about gas cookers and/or heating being phased out over the next 15 years. Seems bit odd to build a load of power stations to burn gas, so we can provide electricity to people, so they don't have to burn gas...
    Not heard anything about that. I suppose it might be as North Sea gas runs out? In which case will we reopen the coal mines and go back to the good old days of town gas, with British Gas visiting every house to fit new burners? ;)

    If I'm right about the reason, couldn't the gas distribution network be supplied with LNG supplies once North Sea gas runs out?
    I had a look around, apparently its Paris to blame, also indicates why people are not rushing out to build new gas power stations.

    http://www.propertyindustryeye.com/huge-change-facing-property-world-as-gas-looks-set-to-be-phased-out/
    The property world looks set to be facing an enormous upheaval following the climate change deal in Paris which could see the end of cooking and heating with gas in the UK.

    Gas hobs, cookers, fires and boilers could all be phased out within 15 years, with households dumping appliances.

    All gas-fired power stations must also close by the mid-2030s, unless they manage to remove CO2 from their emissions.
    Sounds like a vote winner.
    That'd be pretty hard for the UK. It sounds a bit hyperbolic to me.
    The quote is from someone with a vested interest in scrapping them, it seems ;)

    He said: “Gas cookers will be phased out, probably as soon as possible.

    “I suspect manufacturers will simply stop making them.”

    Oh, they will, will they?

    Ah well.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,196

    RobD said:

    felix said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    Another brewing scandal is that many new-build homes are not exactly meeting the required insulation and other standards ...

    (Note, IANAE. But I believe the above is right).

    Talking of which, what is this rumour I hear in the distance (ie. from my mother) about gas cookers and/or heating being phased out over the next 15 years. Seems bit odd to build a load of power stations to burn gas, so we can provide electricity to people, so they don't have to burn gas...
    Not heard anything about that. I suppose it might be as North Sea gas runs out? In which case will we reopen the coal mines and go back to the good old days of town gas, with British Gas visiting every house to fit new burners? ;)

    If I'm right about the reason, couldn't the gas distribution network be supplied with LNG supplies once North Sea gas runs out?
    I had a look around, apparently its Paris to blame, also indicates why people are not rushing out to build new gas power stations.

    http://www.propertyindustryeye.com/huge-change-facing-property-world-as-gas-looks-set-to-be-phased-out/
    The property world looks set to be facing an enormous upheaval following the climate change deal in Paris which could see the end of cooking and heating with gas in the UK.

    Gas hobs, cookers, fires and boilers could all be phased out within 15 years, with households dumping appliances.

    All gas-fired power stations must also close by the mid-2030s, unless they manage to remove CO2 from their emissions.
    Sounds like a vote winner.
    That'd be pretty hard for the UK. It sounds a bit hyperbolic to me.
    It does indeed, Mr. Felix, but such stupidity is not beyond the reach of our politicians - see the Climate Change Act as a starter for ten. So who knows they may yet go for it, after all I keep reading that insulating my home will reduce the amount of electricity I use.

    Given that I heat the place with gas and the only electricity involved is in running the pump for a few hours each day for a couple of months each year, I have to wonder about the intellectual capacity of the people who come out with such guff.
    Some people do heat their homes with electric power, perhaps they are who the advice is aimed at?
    Fair comment, but what percentage of homes do use electric heating? A very small one I think.

    1.9 million as of 2011:

    http://tinyurl.com/pddzy8n
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,912
    Danny565 said:

    Very true.

    Which is why it's so baffling that people are projecting an Osborne-led Tory party to win a landslide when he has such terrible personal ratings.

    Corbyn vs Osborne = Alien vs Predator.
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    'playing all the right notes, not necessarily in the right order'
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    edited December 2015


    http://www.propertyindustryeye.com/huge-change-facing-property-world-as-gas-looks-set-to-be-phased-out/
    The property world looks set to be facing an enormous upheaval following the climate change deal in Paris which could see the end of cooking and heating with gas in the UK.

    Gas hobs, cookers, fires and boilers could all be phased out within 15 years, with households dumping appliances.

    All gas-fired power stations must also close by the mid-2030s, unless they manage to remove CO2 from their emissions.
    Sounds like a vote winner.

    That'd be pretty hard for the UK. It sounds a bit hyperbolic to me.

    It does indeed, Mr. Felix, but such stupidity is not beyond the reach of our politicians - see the Climate Change Act as a starter for ten. So who knows they may yet go for it, after all I keep reading that insulating my home will reduce the amount of electricity I use.

    Given that I heat the place with gas and the only electricity involved is in running the pump for a few hours each day for a couple of months each year, I have to wonder about the intellectual capacity of the people who come out with such guff.

    Some people do heat their homes with electric power, perhaps they are who the advice is aimed at?

    We are all electric on the Spanish coast with no gas despite an underground pipeline laid a few hundred metres from our [very rural] home. To be fair despite electricity here being the one thing more expensive than the UK - we never need to use our heaters except for 2/3 months in the winter evenings. The heatwave currently affecting the UK would be considered a bit of a cold snap here.
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    If the leader satisfaction ratings are crucial in determining the outcome of the GE then Labour are in deeper trouble than I had ever thought. The Labour leader has already defined himself in the public mind. Without any Conservative propaganda he has formed an image of an outdated 80s leftie who speaks to and for his core supporters and no-one else. If he remains in place and the Conservatives have held back ammunition of his past statements then the poll ratings will plumb new depths. The ratings published today of views in Wales are dire. Unless Planet Earth Labour can take a grip on the party then there is no opposition worth its name. That is good news for the Conservatives. It is not good news for the country.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,117
    Agreed, though it was more a case in 2015 of most polls predicting a hung parliament rather than a Miliband premiership
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:

    Very true.

    Which is why it's so baffling that people are projecting an Osborne-led Tory party to win a landslide when he has such terrible personal ratings.

    Corbyn vs Osborne = Alien vs Predator.
    I'm puzzled by the hostility to Osborne - always seen him as part of a very successful double act with Cameron.
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    QuincelQuincel Posts: 3,949
    Danny565 said:

    Quincel said:

    I like this, but the satisfaction ratings barely shifted from 2010 - unlike the result.

    What do you mean "unlike the result"? The vote shares were very similar in 2015 compared to 2010.
    Ah yes, I'd forgotten that. Was blinded by the seat change. Wonder what the leadership ratings of Salmond in 2010 vs Sturgeon in 2015 (in Scotland only) were? Did they change substantially? Likewise with Brown vs EdM.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,117
    Danny565 said:

    Very true.

    Which is why it's so baffling that people are projecting an Osborne-led Tory party to win a landslide when he has such terrible personal ratings.

    No one is predicting a landslide but against a Corbyn led party or a party recovering from his legacy he starts favourite, against an Umunna, Jarvis or Burnham leadership that may not have been the case
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    dyingswan said:

    If the leader satisfaction ratings are crucial in determining the outcome of the GE then Labour are in deeper trouble than I had ever thought. The Labour leader has already defined himself in the public mind. Without any Conservative propaganda he has formed an image of an outdated 80s leftie who speaks to and for his core supporters and no-one else. If he remains in place and the Conservatives have held back ammunition of his past statements then the poll ratings will plumb new depths. The ratings published today of views in Wales are dire. Unless Planet Earth Labour can take a grip on the party then there is no opposition worth its name. That is good news for the Conservatives. It is not good news for the country.

    That Welsh poll was very interesting - if that trend continues though Corbyn could be finished well before the next GE. However, the left-wing tone of the Labour Party could easily survive him and I cannot see a 'cuddly' socialist option swinging back those Midlands marginals any time soon. The header theory is interesting but I don't think it tells the whole story of why Labour lost. I have always thought that age /regional / turnout propensity played a significant role last time.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    Jim Waterson
    Take the inexplicably popular quiz that Labour's soft left can't stop tweeting about: https://t.co/9ey8T2FWbC
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,360
    So which comes first, the chicken or the egg? Is a leader more popular than his opponent because his party is more popular or is it the other way around?

    I don't find it surprising that the winning leader is pretty much always more popular than his opponent but it seems a little meaningless in itself. If PM Osborne is still providing a jobs miracle, rising real wages, zero inflation, a reducing deficit (hopefully to zero by then) and generally competent government in 2020 then it is inevitable that he will be more popular than any leader of the Labour party, let alone Corbyn.

    Conversely, a Labour party led by Corbyn is bound to be unpopular and lose. It is just inevitable.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    O/T Can I just say that (successfully) negotiating a deal with a Bulgarian oligarch has been the most painful experience of my life
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985

    RobD said:

    felix said:

    Indigo said:

    Indigo said:

    FPT:

    Another brewing scandal is that many new-build homes are not exactly meeting the required insulation and other standards ...

    (Note, IANAE. But I believe the above is right).

    Talking of which, what is this rumour I hear in the distance (ie. from my mother) about gas cookers and/or heating being phased out over the next 15 years. Seems bit odd to build a load of power stations to burn gas, so we can provide electricity to people, so they don't have to burn gas...
    Not heard anything about that. I suppose it might be as North Sea gas runs out? In which case will we reopen the coal mines and go back to the good old days of town gas, with British Gas visiting every house to fit new burners? ;)

    If I'm right about the reason, couldn't the gas distribution network be supplied with LNG supplies once North Sea gas runs out?
    I had a look around, apparently its Paris to blame, also indicates why people are not rushing out to build new gas power stations.

    http://www.propertyindustryeye.com/huge-change-facing-property-world-as-gas-looks-set-to-be-phased-out/
    The property world looks set to be facing an enormous upheaval following the climate change deal in Paris which could see the end of cooking and heating with gas in the UK.

    Gas hobs, cookers, fires and boilers could all be phased out within 15 years, with households dumping appliances.

    All gas-fired power stations must also close by the mid-2030s, unless they manage to remove CO2 from their emissions.
    Sounds like a vote winner.
    That'd be pretty hard for the UK. It sounds a bit hyperbolic to me.
    It does indeed, Mr. Felix, but such stupidity is not beyond the reach of our politicians - see the Climate Change Act as a starter for ten. So who knows they may yet go for it, after all I keep reading that insulating my home will reduce the amount of electricity I use.

    Given that I heat the place with gas and the only electricity involved is in running the pump for a few hours each day for a couple of months each year, I have to wonder about the intellectual capacity of the people who come out with such guff.
    Some people do heat their homes with electric power, perhaps they are who the advice is aimed at?
    Fair comment, but what percentage of homes do use electric heating? A very small one I think.

    Page 46, looks like about 10%:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/345141/uk_housing_fact_file_2013.pdf
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    Charles said:

    O/T Can I just say that (successfully) negotiating a deal with a Bulgarian oligarch has been the most painful experience of my life

    By successful negotiations with European elite, do you mean Cameron success or actual real tangible success?
  • Options

    Jim Waterson
    Take the inexplicably popular quiz that Labour's soft left can't stop tweeting about: https://t.co/9ey8T2FWbC

    Apparently, I am...

    "You are Progress. You can’t admit it in polite company – or on Facebook – but you secretly lust for the return of Tony. Every time you switch on the TV and see Jeremy Corbyn you just hanker for the sweet caress of Peter Mandelson. You are the third way. You are three election victories in a row."

    And with that I need to take a shower, as I feel rather grubby...
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,912
    felix said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:

    Very true.

    Which is why it's so baffling that people are projecting an Osborne-led Tory party to win a landslide when he has such terrible personal ratings.

    Corbyn vs Osborne = Alien vs Predator.
    I'm puzzled by the hostility to Osborne - always seen him as part of a very successful double act with Cameron.
    "I do not like you, Dr. Fell".

    As so often, Alistair Meeks hits the nail on the head, when he says Osbourne gives the impression he enjoys pulling wings off flies.
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    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    Sipario .. wonderful.. another Roger Deakin triumph
  • Options
    Lord Janner is dead.
  • Options
    Greville Janner is dead.
  • Options
    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    Ms Plato,

    I'm Labour First, but I'd guessed that anyway,
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,509
    Sean_F said:

    felix said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:

    Very true.

    Which is why it's so baffling that people are projecting an Osborne-led Tory party to win a landslide when he has such terrible personal ratings.

    Corbyn vs Osborne = Alien vs Predator.
    I'm puzzled by the hostility to Osborne - always seen him as part of a very successful double act with Cameron.
    "I do not like you, Dr. Fell".

    As so often, Alistair Meeks hits the nail on the head, when he says Osbourne gives the impression he enjoys pulling wings off flies.
    I'm hostile to him because as a Chancellor he's been a total failure. I'm not particularly bothered about fly pulling habits or Oxford dining clubs, unless they are pertinent to his lack of progress as a Chancellor.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,985

    Lord Janner is dead.

    Puts an end to that sorry saga with the trial of the facts.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    Sean_F said:

    felix said:

    Sean_F said:

    Danny565 said:

    Very true.

    Which is why it's so baffling that people are projecting an Osborne-led Tory party to win a landslide when he has such terrible personal ratings.

    Corbyn vs Osborne = Alien vs Predator.
    I'm puzzled by the hostility to Osborne - always seen him as part of a very successful double act with Cameron.
    "I do not like you, Dr. Fell".

    As so often, Alistair Meeks hits the nail on the head, when he says Osbourne gives the impression he enjoys pulling wings off flies.
    Still not seeing it - sounds just like rather nasty prejudice to say things like that about pretty much anyone. I agree his polling is poor and I doubt if he will become PM but he seems to me to be niehter more or less unpleasant than most folk.
  • Options
    richardDoddrichardDodd Posts: 5,472
    LG83...Nice smear..
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    RobD said:

    Lord Janner is dead.

    Puts an end to that sorry saga with the trial of the facts.
    Oh dear no doubt there'll be some fairly nasty smearing now from all and sundry.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,955
    OT, a genuine comment just mentioned to me:

    "Why can't we declare open seasons on Tories? I'd be the first one out there with a gun, and I know who would be the first target. Bloody Osborne."

    This followed someone discussing badgers being culled, so clearly tensions were high, but curious that Osborne was listed as first target even so, what is that issue to do with him?
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    kle4 said:

    OT, a genuine comment just mentioned to me:

    "Why can't we declare open seasons on Tories? I'd be the first one out there with a gun, and I know who would be the first target. Bloody Osborne."

    This followed someone discussing badgers being culled, so clearly tensions were high, but curious that Osborne was listed as first target even so, what is that issue to do with him?

    It's the kind of rhetoric many left-wingers use on Twitter about the Tories generally - mostly about bitterness, envy and that classic British lefty hatred of all things British. I think anyone who can even write anything like that is deeply troubled. But to be fair it's not so far removed from some of the earlier comments on this thread.
  • Options
    Plato_SaysPlato_Says Posts: 11,822
    So was I...
    CD13 said:

    Ms Plato,

    I'm Labour First, but I'd guessed that anyway,

  • Options
    felix said:

    RobD said:

    Lord Janner is dead.

    Puts an end to that sorry saga with the trial of the facts.
    Oh dear no doubt there'll be some fairly nasty smearing now from all and sundry.
    Yes. How long before someone claims they were brutalized by him and Ted Heath in a Barnes lodging house?
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125

    felix said:

    RobD said:

    Lord Janner is dead.

    Puts an end to that sorry saga with the trial of the facts.
    Oh dear no doubt there'll be some fairly nasty smearing now from all and sundry.
    Yes. How long before someone claims they were brutalized by him and Ted Heath in a Barnes lodging house?
    Of course normally Tom Watson would be quick off the mark but of course Janner wasn't actually a Tory.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,955
    felix said:

    kle4 said:

    OT, a genuine comment just mentioned to me:

    "Why can't we declare open seasons on Tories? I'd be the first one out there with a gun, and I know who would be the first target. Bloody Osborne."

    This followed someone discussing badgers being culled, so clearly tensions were high, but curious that Osborne was listed as first target even so, what is that issue to do with him?

    It's the kind of rhetoric many left-wingers use on Twitter about the Tories generally - mostly about bitterness, envy and that classic British lefty hatred of all things British. I think anyone who can even write anything like that is deeply troubled. But to be fair it's not so far removed from some of the earlier comments on this thread.
    Right wingers are not immune to awful slurs on opponents of course, though I would clarify this comment was spoken to me. The same person once opined that they supported human rights, just not for muslims, though I think that was just inelegantly expressing the view they wanted to be able to kick out people like Abu Hamza easier. Oh, and circulated a petition to me calling on the queen to remove Cameron as PM shortly after the GE, for reasons too stupid for me to remember but something to do with lack of support.

    Ah, family Xmas time, cannot beat it.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    Sun correspondent Charles Rae is quick off the mark :
    'Lord Janner has died and so have his secrets. Justice is the loser'
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    kle4 said:

    felix said:

    kle4 said:

    OT, a genuine comment just mentioned to me:

    "Why can't we declare open seasons on Tories? I'd be the first one out there with a gun, and I know who would be the first target. Bloody Osborne."

    This followed someone discussing badgers being culled, so clearly tensions were high, but curious that Osborne was listed as first target even so, what is that issue to do with him?

    It's the kind of rhetoric many left-wingers use on Twitter about the Tories generally - mostly about bitterness, envy and that classic British lefty hatred of all things British. I think anyone who can even write anything like that is deeply troubled. But to be fair it's not so far removed from some of the earlier comments on this thread.
    Right wingers are not immune to awful slurs on opponents of course, though I would clarify this comment was spoken to me. The same person once opined that they supported human rights, just not for muslims, though I think that was just inelegantly expressing the view they wanted to be able to kick out people like Abu Hamza easier. Oh, and circulated a petition to me calling on the queen to remove Cameron as PM shortly after the GE, for reasons too stupid for me to remember but something to do with lack of support.

    Ah, family Xmas time, cannot beat it.
    Can you reference any 'let's shoot a socialist' quotes? I've never heard anything like that.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,360

    Greville Janner is dead.

    Presumably those who complained about him not being fit to prosecute will be apologising?
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    f you compare the leader satisfaction ratings to the actual vote shares it seems like its not so much that it's more accurate than the VI, as that it was lucky enough to get its two major "errors" the right way - by satisfaction Callahan/Thatcher should have been virtually a tie, but Thatcher won comfortably, and similarly Major/Kinnock should actually have been a much more comfortable victory than it actually was.
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